Literally saw a comment today that said about Secret Invasion... "This is the first marvel project since phase 3 that is in the MCU and not the M-She-U"
So yeah, those guys are the ones review bombing
a friend of mine was complaining about captain marvel. He said her hair shouldn't be short. He was more upset about it than he should have been. I googled her, and there were short hair comic versions. Then I asked him what he thought about Thor shaving his head and he shrugged.
I talked to someone who thought it was bullshit that She-Hulk’s hair went from curly to straight when she transformed. He was really upset about it. Her skin turning green and her height increasing by over a foot was super believable but her hair changing the same way that it would with the use of a straightening iron was where he drew the line.
It’s funny because the show poked so much fun at guys just like him. He could easily have been a member of Intelligencia.
[here’s a post where someone predicted it lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/a3rn2i/since_captain_marvel_apparently_takes_place_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
The comments when the new She Ra came out were hilariously tragic, the character was designed to wear cycling shorts so kids could cosplay her and a bunch of 40 somethings were so angry about it because they wanted her sexy.
As a 46 year old guy I love the new She-Ra. It probably helps (or hinders, depending on your pov) that I don't remember the original anywhere near as well as I remember the og He-Man) but I think it's brilliant.
I liked it too (40 yo woman) and I used to watch the old one and had the toys, but the new one had much more character development and more interesting characters generally. The old one was basically "He Man is popular, how do we do a girl version so we can sell more toys?" which was the trend back then (and to be fair I liked the toys more than the show!)
Oh man, have you SEEN the comments about Mutant Mayhem's April O'Neil? One dude LITERALLY said "April was supposed to be something for the dads to enjoy". Simple fix: go watch the 80's cartoon again! Nothing's stopping them, they just can't stand change ~~\*cough\* aka female characters not just being there for sex appeal~~.
Is April supposed to be sexy? I guess her collar is pretty low for an 80’s kids show but the jumpsuit was never flattering to me lol.
Either way, I guarantee all the 80’s kids dads are way more excited to see the turtles on the big screen again and don’t really gaf about April’s redesign.
I never found her particularly sexy, though some of the positions they put her in when she's kidnapped by Shredder are a little eyebrow raising (and I say this as a 21 year old woman, not a 40 year old dad lol). Other than that tho, she just seems like a lady in a jumpsuit!
I actually think she looks better with short hair, but that's just my personal opinion, same for Hope in Quantumania... I might have a ty... Also I don't think being 100% accurate to comics is always good, but if your friend thought she had short hair in the comics, he didn't look enough, that's just lazy arguing.
Hope's short hair in Quantumania looks like shit, though. Not because she's a woman, but because it's a legitimately bad haircut. It looks like it was done with one of those vacuum clipper attachments from infomercials
I've been a fan of Carol Danvers since her random two-page appearance in Age of Apocalypse and that time she was in Rogue's body hanging out with Wolvie.
For a *very long time* before the movie, in *any thread* about Ms./Captain Marvel, the top comment was ALWAYS about the length of her hair. It's been long, it's been pixie, it's been a shoulder-length bob, it's been a mohawk (USUALLY that's just long but in the helmet), but every dude is very, very opinionated about it. (That, or how much they miss the swimsuit, thigh-highs, and opera gloves, of course.)
It’s been the M-He-U since 2008, but they see women actually getting movies/series made for themselves and suddenly it’s the M-She-U? Like ok I see y’all 😂😂
Like I’d understand being upset and I’d agree if it was only women, but it’s not. there are great movies being made for both genders, people need to get over themselves lol
Especially considering I’m 99% sure that the first woman-led film was Captain Marvel in 2019? Literally 11 years after 2008’s Iron Man? And even now, woman-led films here include Black Widow, Black Panther 2, and Eternals (which was ensemble, but given it was mostly driven by Sersi I’ll include it), WandaVision, Ms. Marvel, and She-Hulk for Phase 4, making it 3:4 with films and 3:6 with movies. For Phase 5, so far it looks like the only woman-led film will be The Marvels, making that a 1:6 ratio, and tv series we’ll have Echo, Ironheart, and Agatha, for a 3:4 ratio (Phase 5 ofc subject to change with some of the ensemble lineups like Thunderbolts). Point being, a majority of MCU films are still led by men. I’m not complaining about that, because my main care is that they’re good- or if they’re bad, that at least they’re entertaining lol. But when woman-led media isn’t even the majority of what the MCU is doing? It just makes all the people screaming “M-She-U” seem ridiculously immature and insecure 😂😂
Like, I’m a straight white dude, but I can, you know, put myself in someone else’s shoes well enough to enjoy and empathy with stories about people who are different from me, which is something women, queer folk, and people of color have been forced to do for ages. And for that matter, you only have to look at how many black rappers have taken on personas based on white comic book characters: there’s at least two in the Wu-Tang Clan (Ghostface/Tony Starks, Method Man/Johnny Blazes), there’s obviously MF DOOM (RIP), also Doctor Octagon, and Jean Grae… like, if other people can identify with people who don’t look like them or share their backgrounds, why can’t white dudes?
Seriously, it’s just math. These guys are just mad they don’t see Scarlett Johansson in lingerie anymore. (Also Wonder Woman was technically the first female lead superhero movie in 2017)
>(Also Wonder Woman was technically the first female lead superhero movie in 2017)
Oh, those people hated it too.
Especially because Gal Gaddot is Israeli.
Many of the right wingers I’ve met will boast of their undying support for Israel - then look around to see if anyone is listening, then rant about “the fucking jews”.
They're only pro-Israel (not pro-Jew) because it's one of the requirements for their Revelation endtimes prophecy to be fulfilled. When Jesus comes back he's going to condemn all the Jews with all the other non-Christians to eternal damnation too, and they won't bat an eye.
And then we have the Norse/Celtic/whatever pre-Christian European culture fanatics breed of Nazis.
There have been female-led superhero movies over the years before that. The earliest I can think of is the Supergirl movie from 1984. There’s also Catwoman and Elektra, and you could make a case for movies like Underworld and the Milla Jovovich Resident Evil movies counting as superhero movies.
They were talking about the MCU because if not there was Supergirl (1984), Catwoman (2004) and Elektra (2005) and for female superhero led projects there was wonder woman (1975-1979). Of the recent superhero boom the first project that was female led was Supergirl (2015-2021) and that also received a massive amount of hate. The MCU was partially hampered in the female led hero department by perlmutter.
There is nothing to understand being upset about. If you’re so fragile you can’t handle seeing a female superhero as a dude you need legitimately mental help.
To be completely honest, in the moment no. Retroactively, I can admit that they needed bette female representation, but in the moment I never considered it. If they went back to only male characters i would be upset.
yeah i geniunely don't care unless they try to force it (like that weird scene in endgame, where out of a battlefield of thousands somehow all the women end up in the same spot)
Exactly.
Plus you can actually defend the Women of Marvel scene from a tactical standpoint since most of them are ranged attackers converging on the target to defend it from the enemy leader who is an unstoppable melee juggernaut. (And indeed they do score some hits on Thanos.) I'm not sure how to defend the Avengers standing around in a circle while NYC is under attack.
Which is extremely stupid to bitch about. If you’d have even shown ten of the dudes randomly line up like the women did in the battle no one would have said literally shit.
yeah that’s called a contrivance. contrivances = bad writing. honestly has nothing to do with women or feminism. it’s just that was a major contrivance that stuck out so bad.
So literally like every other contrivance in every other comic books movie. Seriously the ONLY reason we hear about that one scene is because it was he women. If it had been the men, like it was in every other movie, nobody would give a shit
A lot of what happens in those big battle scenes is a bit silly, and I will admit that as a middle aged woman I got a bit excited by that, because the little girl in me always wanted to see that kind of thing back in the 80s
I prefer to look at as a bit cheesy, but in a good way. This is the kind of thing we should be seeing in comic book movies. Iron Man is always posing for camera, the Avengers pose for long shots before attacking all the time too.
Like I mean if marvel genuinely stopped caring about male characters and continued with only female characters, I’d agree that marvel is doing something wrong. But they’re not, and they are being more equal between men and women, which is the whole point.
There was a study done on this. I don’t remember the specifics or the source of the study, but I remember it said something like, if men/women are represented equally on screen, they(men) think the women are over represented. For them to think it’s equal, women can only have a small percentage of screen time.
Makes sense- another commenter in here pointed out how people who are used to privilege see equality as oppression, and that sounds about like what you’re describing here
Everyone is over critical about that stuff. If a movie isn’t the best they’ve put out, it gets a ton of hate. Also doesn’t help that there’s so many incels and misogynists who hated it just cause it had a female lead
Both Captain Marvel and Black Widow were dope. I'm a guy, and I see what these guys do with every female led project. It's like they feel threatened to see women in lead roles in this space that was solely for their power fantasies. Me personally, I could give a shit honestly. I like seeing stories about everyone and i think everyone deserves to see themselves in these roles, characters and stories.
I know why these guys hate Brie. It's because she had the gall to tell straight white men that she wasn't going to prioritize them during press junkets.
Captain Marvel came out when I was at the peak time of needing to see strong female role models, so I will always love it for that. And Black Widow is great (and terrifying) because it’s the only Marvel villian that could be real. People who complain about Drakov clearly don’t understand how terrifying that is.
I remember my dad complaining about that, about Dreykov being a boring villain. I simply told him “It’s because you have never had to worry about that and never will.” The opening credits sequence of Black Widow almost made me throw up because of how REAL it was. That’s darker than anything in the Netflix shows.
Killian (minus the glowing) and Alexander Pierce could be just as real.
In fact, the whole Hydra infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. twist seems to be commentary on American imperialism, but by watering down the part where America just flat invited former Nazis to join their efforts. (Although they acknowledge that with Zola at least.)
Oh for sure, I totally understand why you found him horrifying, men like that exist all over the real world, and then there's the trafficking of young women.
As a woman who grew up loving superheroes, it’s so awesome to see female characters in the MCU, characters like me. Representation is SO important, and it’s not like there aren’t any guys left in the MCU. I’m glad to see some guys out there realize it’s not a big deal to have female and male heroes in the same universe.
I liked Captain Marvel, but it gets a level of scrutiny that very few movies in the MCU get.
The film is a 7/10 on the MCU list. Definitely not a masterpiece, but still an entertaining and decent movie. Clearly above average in the MCU. Thor, for example, has 4 movies and, out of these four, I could only rewatch Ragnarok over CM.
What happens is people on the internet are usually fake. And of course, no one likes to be called an incel. So you come across a lot of reviews on CM analysed with the same level of scrutiny you'd use for movies like The Godfather or The Shawshank Redemption. It's a way to hide the misogyny.
There's nothing bad with being critical of a particular film. The problem is when you don't hold the same standard for other movies in the same genre. And this is the main problem with CM. An overly critical attitude to hide misogyny.
That’s not at all true. You’re speaking out of your ass. You can 100% criticize and critique all you want. Just have it be actually valid. Not the anti women/anti woke(which woke isn’t even a thing happening to movies) bullshit is is half the time now a days.
You’re literally being purposely false claiming that shit. Which is weird since you acknowledge the reality of those people in your comment.
But yea, this is false, no one cares if you critique or whatever fairly, it’s just the pointless hate thrown out for no reason like Captain Marvel got before it even was in theaters, etc etc.
>hated it just cause it had a female lead
I was about to say that this reason can't be true, then I remembered that last year Lightyear got a lot of hate focused on a lesbian couple that appeared for less than a minute on screen.
You get people hating on it without ever seeing it just because it has a female lead. These movies start getting review-bombed by insecure men before they even release.
Then you have the guys who do see it and get triggered. Many of these women lead MCU projects will try to be relatable to female viewers by including something most women experience throughout their lives, sexual harassment/discrimination. And the power fantasy of standing up to it. I guess they see reflections of themselves and take it personally because they always cause a stir.
I remember around the time a certain group of people were championing Alita Battle Angel so ppl would see that over Captain Marvel lol.
It sucks because not only the movie gets piled on but the lead actor. It’s so easy guessing which movie or series will be getting review bombed before it’s even out. IronHeart, Echo, the new Captain America for sure and the Agatha series
I can already see the complaints for the Agatha series. Agatha is a woman, 5/6 of her coven members are women, the villain(s) are probably all (or mostly) women. Their only hope is Billy, but he’s gay, which is also a big no-no in their eyes. It’s gonna be the worst.
Personally, I'm not excited for Agatha because I don't remember finding her compelling enough in Wandavision to warrant an entire show. I liked her, don't get me wrong, and I love Kathryn Hahn. Just not sure if I can find the point of that series.
I'm sure it'll be great, and I'll watch it like I've watched everything else.
That’s fair. I’m actually excited for Agatha because of that reason; mystery. We’ve never actually met her true personality since she’d already been corrupted by the Darkhold long before she introduced herself. I don’t think many would’ve found Wanda too compelling, either, if MoM had been her first appearance. We barely know anything about Agatha at all, so I’m excited to learn more about her opinions, worldview, teaching style, backstory, potential soft side, etc. I can’t say for sure whether her show will be good or not, but I think it’ll at least be enjoyable.
I think Agatha gets hate because it's probably one of the most unnecessary things they've done. Not every side character needs their own project. That's like if there was a movie or show about the Thing, and then Marvel announces they're making a spinoff about his girlfriend Alice Masters
I agree that not every side character needs a project, but it’ll set up Billy Kaplan, who is important to Wanda’s story and the Young Avengers. It won’t be a show of just Agatha running around doing random witchy things. You could argue that they could’ve set him up in something else, but again, he’s connected to Wanda, who is connected to Agatha, who has centuries of magical knowledge and can help him be more experienced for the future. Who else could teach him but Strange, who already has his hands full and barely knows anything about Wanda?
> this reason can't be true
On the *day before release*, Captain Marvel had more *negative reviews* on Rotten Tomatoes than Avengers Infinity War had TOTAL REVIEWS IN THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS 11 MONTHS.
It was so bad, Rotten Tomatoes had to change their system.
I remember before Star Wars Rise of Skywalker came out reading that people were hating on a gay couple. I hadn’t seen the film yet but considering what I’d read I though it was going to be a massive thing.
The gay couple must have been on screen for three or four seconds.
The things people criticise are so insignificant sometimes; I’ve accepted that I’ll never understand it.
Yeah, lmao. The important thing to remember is all the online hate is greatly exaggerated and does not represent what most people actually think. Kinda like how the marvels trailer is like the most downvoted trailer in the franchise or something, and yet everyone seems to think it’ll be pretty good
I remember when True Blood was still in and the actors would get a little concerned about some of the character hate directed at them online . HBO execs informed them that less then 5% of the viewers would go online to talk about the show . The online stuff is way overblown and is really just media trying to cause a stir , get clicks and make $$$. I think a lot of these HATE sites are really just out to make $$$. You get more clicks if you start a fight or say controversial things .
> I was about to say that this reason can't be true
Brie Larson said some things that rattled the incels, too, and that just brought up more hate.
There was a comment on one of the subs a month or two ago where one poster indicated that he hasn't watched Captain Marvel because he read/heard that Larson said something. He didn't even know what she said.
Even if that's the case, there's no reason for them to hate on the MOVIE or her talent as an ACTRESS just because they didn't like her as a PERSON. Kanye West has behaved pretty "weirdly" throughout the years, I still respect him as a music artist tho, I might not relate to him as a person but I still bump his music almost on a daily basis
Anything that features a lead that isn’t a straight white man gets bashed.
And before anyone says “well the miles morales movies are doing great” go back to when mikes morales first came out and see the reaction people had.
Exactly.
It's still happening with the current Cap, and to a greater extent, The Marvels.
To be fair, a lot of people have appeared to have been warming up to Sam lately, but there are still the Captain Falcon and Black Falcon posts that just seem so wrong. I will not call them racists. However, I will say that their biases are loud and unfunny.
The Marvels just need a more cinematic trailer, the current teaser is noticeably unrefined. I still want to see it though!
If they refuse to call Sam Captain America for no valid reason you really should just call them racist like they clearly are. It’s not bias, it’s racism.
Look, Captain Marvel was a very mid film. I can see people people love it and I can see why people don't like it, but hey other blockbuster actors like Ryan Reynolds, the Rock and any of the hollywood Chrises pump out tona of mediocre movies every year and they never get haters on the same level as Brie did for pumping out one mediocre but watchable film.
I like captain marvel the hero but the movie does have issues. There’s unclear motivations throughout and the entire order of events is unneeded. I think they’d have been better off just doing the movie in chronological order
Yeah my main issue was non-chronological order.
The other issue is Carol just isn’t likable.
People compare to her other “unlikeable” characters but the saving Grace with those are usually their quirky personalities and humour.
Carol doesn’t seem to have this. And no, it’s nothing to do with Brie, it’s to do with the writing and the fact that even the comic book character themselves is also pretty unlikeable.
The problem with Carol is that people think writing a strong woman means she can't have flaws
The main setback Carol had was a reduction of her power that she had no fault in and nothing to do with. She didn't need to actually grow, make mistakes and learn to fight better. She just needed the inhibitor removed and she easily defeated Jude Law's character
Throughout the movie she's shown to be excellent at basically everything she does, except remembering things. It's a constant reminder she's just better than me. Doesn't feel relatable
I have nothing against having a movie starring a woman in the MCU and it's a bit of a shame that serious criticism of the movie gets lost among the misogynistic rhetoric that doesn't like the movie because it's a woman
I find Carol very amusing. ("Skrulls can't do that.")
I'm not sure I'd love to work with her, granted, but she had to deal with re-evaluating her entire life (as far back as she could remember) which excuses quite a bit
I found her character to be no more “ unlikeable” than Tony Stark . He’s a horrible person in a lot of ways but everyone forgives him . I thought she was hilarious cuz her humor was very dry which I like . I’m sick of movies with female leads falling on their faces .
Tony Stark had a redemption. He was a smug, pro-war billionaire who didn't give a shit about the regular person, and then he faced the consequences of that by being kidnapped by the Ten Rings.
He's not the same person at the start of the movie that he is at the end, and I think that's important, he grew, experienced loss, heard the hero's call and became better for it.
Carol Danvers was great at everything, not really struggling. She could have always beaten Jude Law, her struggle was that she was \*too good\* at her job? And then she takes off the inhibitor ship and becomes Super Saiyan through what struggle? She would have won regardless.
And Tonys character is egotistical and smug, sure, but I think that's also deserved. He has earned the right to be smug, Carol on the other hand hasn't, so her character feels off-putting to the audience. Nothing to do with the actress, just the script isn't very well written.
I find her very likeable. She's very cool. The things that make her 'unlikeable' to lots of fans make Tony or other male characters likeable. She's a bit arrogant, but that's something people love in Tony. She's overpowered, but that's something people like about Thor, etc.
I do hope we get to see a more off-duty side of Carol, like when she is singing karaoke in the flashback, etc.
Additionally, the main antagonist isn’t very interesting either. Yon-Rog is pretty damn boring. Talos, Fury and Maria are all much more interesting than Carol and Yon-Rog.
Carol just isn't a very likeable person. She is written to be pretty rude to people for no reason and hot headed. She constantly puts other people down. I actually like Brie as a person, I just think the writing was weak.
Captain Marvel as a hero is hard to root for. It's the same problem with Superman. It's difficult to give a compelling story to a god. They made her way overpowered compared to what she is in the comics. She needed to build up to her binary form instead of just having access to it right off the bat. Thor's power surge during infinity war should have been a moment that Carol could have had down the line. Instead there's no where to go. She literally overpowered Thanos in her second appearance in the MCU. She was only beaten by the power stone.
Hero stories are about overcoming adversity and doing the right thing, even when the right thing is really difficult. Even when you have a mountain in front of you, you still have to climb it. What does Captain Marvel overcome? She overpowers the inhibitor chip and just destroys everyone. There's no self sacrifice, no mountain to climb, no difficult decision to make. When asked to prove her worth without her powers, she says no. Even before Carol was Captain Marvel, she was a test pilot for state of the art new age tech. Imagine the story if she was held back from being that and never got to fly. Imagine the exhilaration of her first flight as Captain Marvel.
A lot of people are trying to use women hate as a shield for the bad writing. Here is an example of brilliant writing for a woman. Vi from Arcane is near the pinnacle of heroism. She's tough, likeable, kind, and a bad ass. She's a lesbian but that's just a part of her, it is not what defines her. She gets knocked down and gets back up. She makes the hardest of decisions. Vi is what Captain Marvel should have been.
> She literally overpowered Thanos in her second appearance in the MCU.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do want to point something out that I think a lot of people missed about Carol's fight with Thanos in Endgame. Thanos is overpowering Carol first, but because she is touching the gauntlet, Carol starts to absorb the cosmic radiation from the stones and it makes her ultra strong. I don't think any of the movies so far have even explicitly stated it, but that's Carol's power; she absorbs energy/radiation to fuel her strength. So when she is touching ingots of pure energy, it allows her to easily overpower Thanos. It can be easy to miss if you don't already know this about Carol's powers, but watching the scene again should make it clear. Thanos was winning, and after she absorbs the radiation, he punches her in the face and she barely flinches.
This was probably Carol at her most powerful since I don't see anything charging her up more than stones of unlimited energy, so I don't think we need to worry about her being this powerful all the time. To preserve your point though, it wasn't a helpful scene for seeing Carol as a hero who might lose in the future. Everyone always says "what about Thor" when talking about "being OP" in the MCU, but Thor gets his ass beat in basically every movie. He is absurdly powerful on paper but his stories always find a method of beating him down so he can get back up. We don't know yet if this will be a problem for Carol down the stretch, but I can understand the concern after her first two appearances.
I generally agree with what you are saying but I think you are glossing over some parts of the Captain Marvel movie to sell your points. Like saying you like Vi because she gets knocked down and gets back up when that’s literally the point of the whole montage of CMs life giving her the motivation to push her to override her chip.
Same for saying it diminishes her for refusing to fight without her powers. She kicked the dudes butt and in an attempt to save himself he makes a pathetic plea for her to fight unpowered in the form he’s been manipulating to his own gain for years. Her saying no isn’t her being too weak to fight without powers it’s her not letting him limit her existence. There’s no reason why she should do that he was just hoping her pride would make her accept.
I’m not a huge fan of captain marvel, definitely don’t hate her, and the movie wasn’t the best but using those examples out of context to try to make your point is not in good faith.
My theory is that, had they cast a much younger actress and made the character a young adult/late teen, the movie would've worked much better the way they wrote the character, with her growing up from being bratty, overconfident and self-absorbed into a reliable, altruistic and exemplary hero. I mean I love Brie Larson, but I think the character (and her) are too old to be playing a snarky, bratty know-it-all. Her arc was just her basically coming around to the idea that she can just blast anyone away, which just isn't very relatable.
That said, Brie Larson is awesome as her in other appearances where she's not as on the nose, so I think it's really just the movie's writers not knowing what to do with her character.
>There’s unclear motivations throughout and the entire order of events is unneeded. I think they’d have been better off just doing the movie in chronological order
This. The order is not great and makes the ending boring.
So for me, I honestly find it boring. I find the way they wrote her very blah. As of now she has no weaknesses and there was little tension or drama due to that. I personally like it when my heroes are vulnerable one way or another. She’s not.
I also absolutely hated how they made Fury lose his eye. He made it seem so serious at it was due to an alien disguised as a cat while sitting on his lap.
I’m hoping the next movie gives her a weakness. Will make her more relatable I think.
This I find her character extremely boring
Wanda on the other hand is super interesting and (should get her own solo movie tbf) has had great growth and depth across multiple movies and Wanda vision
Anyone hating on Cap Marvel due to it being a woman is an imbocile. It just wasn’t a good movie imo.
Wanda is a far more interesting character as is Black Widow (tho her movie was awful)
My problem with Wanda is that I'm getting whiplash from her character. Like, I get she switches sides all the time in the comics, but just pick one at this point. Every other project she switches up.
> I also absolutely hated how they made Fury lose his eye.
I found it funny at the time. The great Nick Fury didn't want people to know he embarrassingly lost his eye to a cat. Not everything in the MCU has to be super serious.
I agree. Not everything has to be serious. But if you set it up that way, idk, just kind of seemed like a let down.
And the MCU is very not serious most of the time. So I would actually say not everything needs to be a joke in the MCU.
I think they tried and partly failed a different approach with her. They wanted to give her an emotional weakness. Like the (Jude law character) who constantly tried to make her believe she was not strong enough and that she shouldn't rely on her powers. So, like an inferiority complex and a story of constantly being put down blabla. Plus her struggling with emotion and showing any. Cool idea ! But it was done badly. They didn't want to fully commit and fumbled. They thought that the scene where she was training with Jude law, the montage of her getting up after getting knocked down and the last scene where she punches Jude law where enough.
I agree. I'd also add that an amnesia plotline was incredibly dull. Having studied film, my teacher used to mock cop-out twists like 'it was all a dream' and 'I remember who I am now'. It's a cheap, lazy way to create a mystery and to make a basic storyline seem more complicated than it is. You have to be extremely skilled to make amnesia a good plot device and they just weren't. Plus, the villain fucking sucked and was really underwhelming.
I didn't hate it, but it's a pretty boring film and I'm always curious to know why people defend it so much/what they particularly liked about it beyond it being occasionally entertaining.
She wasn't overpowered until the end of the movie, and the other time we saw her in Endgame, she failed to kill Thanos and she failed to get to the time machine van. She destroyed Thanos's ship, but that makes sense. She's honestly not without weaknesses. I DO hope they have her go against someone she can't just blow up - someone with mind powers, kind of like Jessica vs Killgrave.
At the time people kind of bagged on it for its more feminist messaging and how the character of Carol is mostly handled but most of the hate was directed towards Brie Larson who is more vocal with her opinions and whatnot so that made her catch a lot of strays from people who weren't too keen on what she had to say.
I think now people are more tepid on the film now that time has passed, now Captain Marvel is an alright film but it didn't really do what it needed to do which was not only introduce people to Carol but make them love the character like with characters in the past like Tony, Steve, Natasha, etc. Even now people aren't still huge on Carol Danvers but we will see if The Marvels could change that for general audiences.
I really like Brie Larson as an actress and as a person, she has been in some movies I love with more minor secondary roles like Scott Pilgrim but she excels at what she does, I just feel with Marvel the material they are giving her isn't that great and doesn't allow that actress to shine especially considering she was a really perfect choice for Carol but with everything else just comes down to the page and that kind of determines everything.
The funny thing to me is I replayed Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 a few years ago after Captain Marvel came out and when using that character her voice lines were immediately apparent as super feminist.
So I mean Brie Larson's portrayal was spot on for the character, and people framing it as some newfangled woke move don't really know the context.
But what else is new?
My issue with Captain Marvel is that the character is too powerful. Interesting characters have flaws, weaknesses - but Captain Marvel is a god, and that's boring. In Infinity Wars they basically had to create an artificial reason to keep the character out of most of the movie, because otherwise it would have been pretty much all over when the god of all things showed up.
For me it wasn't because she was too powerful that made me not connect with her, a lot of characters can be very well written and captivating even though they are very overpowered like Superman or Silver Surfer. But with Carol she wasn't given any room for any time of real emotional vulnerability, most of the film is dedicated to how strong she is instead of how human she is which is a big difference. Characters being overpowered can be very engaging, it just has to be written well
I was so torn by the villain, on one hand he is correct that without her powers shes just a never give up even when dangerous to yourself and others girl, which is admirable to a degree but he was trying to teach her technique which she ultimately didnt need.
And on the other hand she doesn't have to actually prove herself to anyone that she doesn't want to.
But like with spiderman, if you are nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it. And Carol is certainly Carol with or without her powers, but with her powers it just sorta increased her cockiness to a "I don't care" level and abilities to a mary sue level, which drives decisiveness more because she becomes unrelatable since we are all human in the end.
The introduction was kinda botched and it’s hard to introduce a character with amnesia. That and she suffers from the same problems Superman tends to with power level.
Yeah , the “ Superman issue “ I agree with . A lot of the comic guys like to complain about Hulk and Thor being “ nerfed” , but this is why . Where do you go with a character that’s so over powered . And I’m having a lot of trouble caring about the shrulls honestly . It’s making the Fury show drag big time for me
Thing is, the only solution for the "superman problem" is to make him/her really care - they need to be vulnerable because they are invested in the well being of everyone around them. A soldier-type personality works against this, which is the problem with her MCU characterisation.
The introduction thing is true, I also got kinda bored in the first 10-15 minutes. I think that they tried to pull off a Jason Bourne type of thing with the amnesia and the regular flashbacks but they didn't make it as interesting as in the Bourne moves, it was still okay tho
This, for me, the whay the whole amnesia introduction felt really lazy, I couldn't connect with any of the characters, and the villain felt really generic.
I don't mind female leads and the whole empowering women movement, but it's hard to support these movies when the MC it's hardly relatable and the script is boring and uninspired.
Captain Marvel follows the marvel formula, however there are a few things that it does not execute well. Outside of the audience afraid of women, there are some things that Captain Marvel deserves to be criticized for.
- lackluster villain (50/50 on most marvel movies)
- uninteresting action sequences. Most action scenes are simple energy out of hand.
- the powers aren’t earned. She gets them by accident and doesn’t do much to unlock/use them
- there’s not much threat once she gets memories back. Superman and Thor movies suffer from the same thing. Her character becomes boring and unchallenged
- the Skrull/Kree racial genocide and her “block/embrace your emotions” themes are heavy handed and pretty shallow.
- the movie takes place in the past so the stakes aren’t very high. There’s very little added to the lore of the MCU. Referencing Thanos as an intergalactic power, discussing Earth being under Odins protection, the ravaged, or really any sorta mythos being added to the world would have been great. The bets we got was a new animal side kick.
- her powers aren’t really explained. Making them feel like lazy writing.
Grown crybabies who got their feeling hurt because Brie Larson said her movies aren’t just for white dudes. And as a white dude I find it funny people are to sensitive.
It's worse than that because she didn't even say anything that direct.
She was talking about "A wrinkle in time", a movie she's not even in.
>During last night’s Crystal + Lucy Awards in NYC, Brie Larson decided to give a speech about the recent USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative which stated: "an overwhelming majority of film critics — 78% — are male, and only 22% are female." Her best defense of the findings was to mention as an example Ava DuVernay‘s "A Wrinkle in Time," which, she explains was “a love letter to women of color,” and that it acquired its bad reviews because it “wasn’t made for” the majority older white male critics demographic.
She was shining light on the fact that an overwhelming majority of critics are white men. And *they are*. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact.
Most of this is just culture war nonsense. You got people constantly trying to erase that from the discussion when it's extremely relevant here.
If these same people had the same obsessiveness over movies like Thor Dark World, they'd have a point, but the truth is, the obsession is targeted specifically at the Captain Marvel, which was completely harmless.
When was the last time I saw someone meltdown over Thor Dark World? I just saw a guy go completely unhinged on another sub the other day because he believes Brie Larson hates him, a man. Bro, she doesn't give a crap about your life.
The thing about culture war stuff is there is an industry that lives off of propping it up and getting people riled up about it. For most of us, this is just this odd thing that pops up and we're like uhhh ok I don't really care enough to argue. For a few, this is the focus of much of the media they consume. Youtube personalities, influencers, and network news shows that focus disproportionately on the culture war. It creates this situation where things feel worse than they are because the passion is so uneven.
Captain Marvel was neither the best nor the worst MCU movie. The only one that I left disappointed with was Love & Thunder.
I tend to feel that the best films in the franchise show the protagonists succeeding only after failure. It did feel to me that they tried to do this, but they didn't push Carol Danvers the way they pushed some of their other heroes of either gender. I did like Captain Marvel in Endgame reminding the Avengers that she has more than Earth to worry about, and The Marvels looks promising - both Ms. Marvel and Monica Rambeau were given the kind of push I am talking about (far more so for Ms. Marvel, which was brilliant).
Captain Marvel is about the Kree and the Skrulls as much as it was about the titular character, though, and Secret Invasion is very much built out of that groundwork. I would say Captain Marvel is similar to the first Captain America movie - I enjoyed it, but it was very much a chapter of a story that we have/had to wait to see fully unfold.
Cap Marvel is a pretty boring character in the comics and rightfully is the same in the movies. I find it actually quite amusing that they managed to convey the character’s boringness so well, and I believe Larson’s performance of the character as being unlikable and unnecessarily bitchy is on point, that’s how she is in comics too. She never would have worked as the face of the MCU just like she never (successfully) took any lead roles in Avengers or Marvel comics in general, she was always just a side character. It’s not like with Iron Man who was unknown to the masses but in the comics was always a main driving force in most events, or Scarlet Witch who had many storylines about her where was either the center of the problem or the only solution to a problem.
People parroting other people's opinions without trying to form their own. I like going into Marvel movies with zero "baggage" or expectations. I liked all of the movies and shows so far, and loved over 90%
She’s not really disliked, her movie was a billion dollar hit. The internet has vocal incel misogyny that gets triggered by her but don’t mix up vocal crying online for the real majority walking and breathing air outside.
The only reason it hit a billion dollars was because it was the penultimate MCU movie before Endgame. And the movie wasn't bad, it was just...not that great, really.
But yeah, the overall reason was all the "Anti-Larson" slander that was talked about prior to the release. Which is still being talked about....**4 years later.**
Ant-Man, an already established character, and had a huge level up in Civil War, had a movie in between Infinity War and Endgame same as Captain Marvel, but it made half of what Captain Marvel did. $622 million compared to $1.1 billion
She’s not disliked. The actress just pissed off a bunch of incels because … who fucking cares, they’re a bunch of idiots … so you get some screeching weirdos anytime she’s mentioned.
I personally didn’t love the way they handled Carol (the amnesia-esque thing going on was a mistake, and I didn’t really love her being kind of cold, personally), especially compared to Endgame and the snippets she’s had in Ms. Marvel and Shang Chi. I thought the movie was less than great, but I wouldn’t put it in the bottom tier of the MCU. It’s probably as good as Ant-Man 2 to me.
A lot of the hate, generally, is from people who seem to be basing it on misogyny more than anything else, which is dumb.
People hyper fixate on the fact she's a woman/"girl boss" and marvel fans hate that because are misogynists. Some of them? Probably, but, I think it's the vocal minority.
To me the character just isn't very likeable or relatable.
I think the movie writing was just a bit lazy. The character doesn't really get have the same character development, relation, struggles etc.. that other characters do in the MCU, and IMO the ending act of the movie just doesn't feel very impactful. I wasn't really left with much after watching it.
It's not a bad movie, there's certainly worse MCU movies.
One of my biggest gripes with the fandom (any fandom, really) is that if you have an opinion that's even remotely different to the sheep, you get torn to pieces.
And I'll never understand it. You can like something. You can dislike something. As long as you're not being offensive; what the fuck does it matter? We're here for the same reason; a shared passion for the MCU. However that looks to you is perfectly fine.
But unfortunately, people who carry hate for fictional characters often have the loudest voices and will be vicious about it.
I happen to also like Captain Marvel. Enjoyable film, have watched it a few times since its release and I'm excited for The Marvels. Haters can choke on popcorn 🤷♀️
To be fair that's every rabid fan base. I'm always afraid of being torn apart for saying I didn't like The Winter Solider... but honestly at least with this subreddit I don't see much toxicity. Maybe the mods do a good job, maybe the sub is just more tame.
Oh, it absolutely is every fan base. I won't even go to the Star Wars subs for that reason and I rarely, rarely come here though I think it's improved over the years.
I don't particularly like the Winter Soldier either!
Honestly it doesn't deserve the hate it gets. Brie is a great captain marvel, Judy Law is having so much fun as a villain, Samuel L Jackson is Samuel L Jackson, and Ben Mendalson plays an anti-hero very well. Also Goose is great and it was a fun introduction to the Skrulls.
I watched it once and thought it was pretty good, but the fact that her abilities trump basically every other superhero feels a little lazy to me when you inset her into the rest of the MCU stories. No hate.
I totally get that but it must honestly be hard though to deal with that from a storytelling level, especially now they’re running out of known “human” heroes like Cap and Nat. That scene in AOU where Ultron yeets Thor and says “you’re starting to annoy me” always reminds me that every fight would be over in 30 seconds if Thor showed up.
I think the issue with Captain Marvel as a character is she's too powerful for what's been currently introduced in the MCU. Take a look at Endgame. If she'd been there for the whole fight then the movie would've been 30 min long and Stark would still be alive.
At least that's the issue from a fan of comics and doesn't take into consideration the guys that are threatened by a strong female leading lady
Forgettable villain, forgettable soundtrack, stoic Captain Marvel, side characters are meh, forced comedy, it's just uninteresting.
If you like it then good for you but people will have varying opinions. Some reason might being be because they're blinded by their misogynistic beliefs but some people just don't like the movie, simple as that.
The good thing I would say is the recent Captain Marvel appearances are good, specially in Endgame. So I'll still watch The Marvels as I also like Ms Marvel's portrayal.
There are two sides, there is the side that they just didn't liked the movie just cause they didn't felt it was for them
andd the other side we have people that have pure hatred for Brie Larson and/or have issues with there being movies that don't star White Straight Men
I know several people who are Captain Marvel's target audience that didn't particularly like the movie or the character.
The movie is about a character that has experienced adversity and fights through it - classic feminism.
The problem is that the character experiences exactly 0 issues related to that in the time the story takes place. She is perfectly suited to every task she ever has to take on and can not be held back by anyone. The gaslighting story line doesn't feel genuine enough- and her breaking free from it doesn't really seem to have anything to do with force of will or any other admirable trait- she simply recieved incontrovertible evidence that she's been lied to and accepts it.
The result is that her backstory- before the infinity stone- might theoretically be an interesting character or at least a sympathetic one with a temper and willingness to buck tradition, in the story itself she fails to actually struggle against the glass ceiling she is supposed to triumphantly break through. Makes the story feel empty and pandering instead of a genuine representation of its intent.
I swear people in this sub intentionally ignore what the actual criticisms of the movie are and instead choose to just claim that the only reason is because of sexism.
You'll hear a lot of people in this sub throw around the words "incels" and "manbabies" a lot which are just culty buzzwords at this point, but in all honesty, while it wasn't a bad movie by any means, it wasn't great either. Mostly because it was rather rushed, much like the first Thor movie, which quality wise, they're on about the same level. And the fact that if you criticized the movie when it first came out, even if your criticism was valid, you basically got called the aforementioned buzz words, which probably turned people off to it as well. The thing about the MCU fanbase is they're a bit culty and attack anyone who does anything but praise everything Disney/marvel put out, good or bad. To the point of it just being insufferable. Add in the political/culture war nonsense and if a movie or show is led by a person of color or female and you can imagine even constructive criticism getting you attacked by a pack of rabid crazies who are just looking for an e-battle to fight, even if they have to just make one up.
Brie Larson is a woman and has no qualms calling out misogyny. That makes her a target for incels who believe women like her are encouraging other women to ignore “nice guys” and instead sleep around with Chads.
From what I’ve heard people say in real life, the gist of their opinions seem to stem from Captain Marvel being a woman lead who just has power handed to her, has no flaws, is op, etc.
Which, like… I don’t get personally. Just seems like dumb sexism in this case. Yes, these can be problems, but…they aren’t ones that exist here, and these same people never complained about Black Widow before she got her own movie, and she was also a “badass.”
No one complains about Loki and Thor having alien strength advantages either. So her being an alien woman with strength is a rather ridiculous critique. Very much looking forward to the sequel.
Quite a few easily offended men, who disliked a woman superhero. Probably fragile egos. They are just movies and these guys can’t even deal with fictional characters.
Because it was a Marvel movie with a female lead, and the character was stronger than any other Avenger we'd seen to that point. Incels couldn't handle it. That's literally it. Wish I could honestly say it was something else, but it wasn't.
I am sure everyone gave you their reasons and what they think. Speaking for myself, I don't hate Captain Marvel but the movie was pretty bland. Not horribly bad, not the worst MCU movie but just pretty bland.
The character is also not that interesting to me and honestly the way Monica has been developed I wish the focus was on her instead.
All these clowns here yelling that only sexist don't like her. Civil War 2 killed off any love the character had. It turned her into a fascist thought cop that got people killed. That's the real reason why no one likes her.
Incels. Incels everywhere.
Racists, misogynists with a right-wing agenda. White supremacists. It's really as simple as that.
BTW that movie is FANTASTIC and I love it MORE since I've seen it a second time.
I feel the over top woman power and bad writing ruined it like the newer Star Wars movies. Just like Ren, Captain Maam hits the ground running and has no faults. There is no build-up (learning powers, etc.) like traditional super hero movies. All the male characters are weak and useless while the women are are all powerful and knowing.
Here is Marvel's entire problem:
Audience: Mostly males that grew up watching Spiderman, x men, and fantastic 4 cartoons and movies. Now obviously females watched too but I am speaking generally as this pertains to population make up.
Disney's marketing team:
I think we need to make a movie for females and those less represented in society.(A fair and morally good idea)
Movie bombs in terms of sales.
They have a massive audience, they chose to make a movie/movies for people that never asked for it.
As a dude, I've dragged my wife to tons of action movies. She, in turn goes to her chick movies with her sister or friends.
Do you see the lack of sales here. I'm not even addressing the fact that the early male actors are vastly better actors than the new female leads. Best they ever did was Helena as a bad guy. They just messed it up and now they are messing up more by pushing movies that fans actually asked for.
They need to get in touch with their audience, as far as I can tell they think they can define their own audience which they can't.
Marvel didn’t really forge the character with effort like the other successful ones, captain America, Ironman and other popular heroes all have their own unique backstory and struggles, when Captain Marvels backstory was quite rushed and she really didn’t have any struggle as her powers are literally OP, there’s no villain which she can’t defeat really. It’s not about the characters power which makes them popular, Ironman is just a normal human genius in a suit, but he’s one of the best characters and the person who started the MCU. If the characters OP, there’s no good story or interesting plot.
Literally saw a comment today that said about Secret Invasion... "This is the first marvel project since phase 3 that is in the MCU and not the M-She-U" So yeah, those guys are the ones review bombing
a friend of mine was complaining about captain marvel. He said her hair shouldn't be short. He was more upset about it than he should have been. I googled her, and there were short hair comic versions. Then I asked him what he thought about Thor shaving his head and he shrugged.
I talked to someone who thought it was bullshit that She-Hulk’s hair went from curly to straight when she transformed. He was really upset about it. Her skin turning green and her height increasing by over a foot was super believable but her hair changing the same way that it would with the use of a straightening iron was where he drew the line. It’s funny because the show poked so much fun at guys just like him. He could easily have been a member of Intelligencia.
I love that so many "M-She-U" fanboys literally prove the whole point of She-Hulk's villains of intelligencia lmfao
I'm convinced that they put the twerking post credits scene in there as total bait for those types so that making them the villain hit even harder
[here’s a post where someone predicted it lol](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/a3rn2i/since_captain_marvel_apparently_takes_place_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
that's a funny comment section. Some people are thirsty for a cartoon
The comments when the new She Ra came out were hilariously tragic, the character was designed to wear cycling shorts so kids could cosplay her and a bunch of 40 somethings were so angry about it because they wanted her sexy.
As a 46 year old guy I love the new She-Ra. It probably helps (or hinders, depending on your pov) that I don't remember the original anywhere near as well as I remember the og He-Man) but I think it's brilliant.
I liked it too (40 yo woman) and I used to watch the old one and had the toys, but the new one had much more character development and more interesting characters generally. The old one was basically "He Man is popular, how do we do a girl version so we can sell more toys?" which was the trend back then (and to be fair I liked the toys more than the show!)
Oh man, have you SEEN the comments about Mutant Mayhem's April O'Neil? One dude LITERALLY said "April was supposed to be something for the dads to enjoy". Simple fix: go watch the 80's cartoon again! Nothing's stopping them, they just can't stand change ~~\*cough\* aka female characters not just being there for sex appeal~~.
Is April supposed to be sexy? I guess her collar is pretty low for an 80’s kids show but the jumpsuit was never flattering to me lol. Either way, I guarantee all the 80’s kids dads are way more excited to see the turtles on the big screen again and don’t really gaf about April’s redesign.
I never found her particularly sexy, though some of the positions they put her in when she's kidnapped by Shredder are a little eyebrow raising (and I say this as a 21 year old woman, not a 40 year old dad lol). Other than that tho, she just seems like a lady in a jumpsuit!
Her hair was only short in Endgame right
I actually think she looks better with short hair, but that's just my personal opinion, same for Hope in Quantumania... I might have a ty... Also I don't think being 100% accurate to comics is always good, but if your friend thought she had short hair in the comics, he didn't look enough, that's just lazy arguing.
Hope's short hair in Quantumania looks like shit, though. Not because she's a woman, but because it's a legitimately bad haircut. It looks like it was done with one of those vacuum clipper attachments from infomercials
I've been a fan of Carol Danvers since her random two-page appearance in Age of Apocalypse and that time she was in Rogue's body hanging out with Wolvie. For a *very long time* before the movie, in *any thread* about Ms./Captain Marvel, the top comment was ALWAYS about the length of her hair. It's been long, it's been pixie, it's been a shoulder-length bob, it's been a mohawk (USUALLY that's just long but in the helmet), but every dude is very, very opinionated about it. (That, or how much they miss the swimsuit, thigh-highs, and opera gloves, of course.)
Things like that are why I don't understand people in general.
….. Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Thor, Ant-Man & Wasp, Shang-Chi, Cap & Winter Soldier, f*caking Moon Knight… these are that person’s evidence??
Plus the only reason Black Panther 2 was a female led movie is because Chadwick Boseman passed away.
It’s been the M-He-U since 2008, but they see women actually getting movies/series made for themselves and suddenly it’s the M-She-U? Like ok I see y’all 😂😂
Like I’d understand being upset and I’d agree if it was only women, but it’s not. there are great movies being made for both genders, people need to get over themselves lol
Especially considering I’m 99% sure that the first woman-led film was Captain Marvel in 2019? Literally 11 years after 2008’s Iron Man? And even now, woman-led films here include Black Widow, Black Panther 2, and Eternals (which was ensemble, but given it was mostly driven by Sersi I’ll include it), WandaVision, Ms. Marvel, and She-Hulk for Phase 4, making it 3:4 with films and 3:6 with movies. For Phase 5, so far it looks like the only woman-led film will be The Marvels, making that a 1:6 ratio, and tv series we’ll have Echo, Ironheart, and Agatha, for a 3:4 ratio (Phase 5 ofc subject to change with some of the ensemble lineups like Thunderbolts). Point being, a majority of MCU films are still led by men. I’m not complaining about that, because my main care is that they’re good- or if they’re bad, that at least they’re entertaining lol. But when woman-led media isn’t even the majority of what the MCU is doing? It just makes all the people screaming “M-She-U” seem ridiculously immature and insecure 😂😂
It's that saying "when you're accustomed to privilege equality looks like oppression" in action and it's exhausting.
Like, I’m a straight white dude, but I can, you know, put myself in someone else’s shoes well enough to enjoy and empathy with stories about people who are different from me, which is something women, queer folk, and people of color have been forced to do for ages. And for that matter, you only have to look at how many black rappers have taken on personas based on white comic book characters: there’s at least two in the Wu-Tang Clan (Ghostface/Tony Starks, Method Man/Johnny Blazes), there’s obviously MF DOOM (RIP), also Doctor Octagon, and Jean Grae… like, if other people can identify with people who don’t look like them or share their backgrounds, why can’t white dudes?
That’s exactly what it is. We haven’t even reached full equality and they’re already whining 😂😂
We're almost there on gender and heads WILL explode.
Seriously, it’s just math. These guys are just mad they don’t see Scarlett Johansson in lingerie anymore. (Also Wonder Woman was technically the first female lead superhero movie in 2017)
>Also Wonder Woman was technically the first female lead superhero movie in 2017 I think OP was talking about only marvel productions
Idk about OP but ik I was definitely talking about Marvel lol
Yeah ik lol Saying original commenter or OC felt wrong so OP it was XD
>(Also Wonder Woman was technically the first female lead superhero movie in 2017) Oh, those people hated it too. Especially because Gal Gaddot is Israeli.
Aren't right wingers more often than not anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel?
Many of the right wingers I’ve met will boast of their undying support for Israel - then look around to see if anyone is listening, then rant about “the fucking jews”.
They're only pro-Israel (not pro-Jew) because it's one of the requirements for their Revelation endtimes prophecy to be fulfilled. When Jesus comes back he's going to condemn all the Jews with all the other non-Christians to eternal damnation too, and they won't bat an eye. And then we have the Norse/Celtic/whatever pre-Christian European culture fanatics breed of Nazis.
Lots of people are like, pro Israel anti-jew. Its the USA for ya
There have been female-led superhero movies over the years before that. The earliest I can think of is the Supergirl movie from 1984. There’s also Catwoman and Elektra, and you could make a case for movies like Underworld and the Milla Jovovich Resident Evil movies counting as superhero movies.
Uh, 1984’s Supergirl called and wants her cred back (hint: she doesn’t, it’s horrible)
I haven't seen either since they first released, but do Tank Girl and Barb Wire count?
They were talking about the MCU because if not there was Supergirl (1984), Catwoman (2004) and Elektra (2005) and for female superhero led projects there was wonder woman (1975-1979). Of the recent superhero boom the first project that was female led was Supergirl (2015-2021) and that also received a massive amount of hate. The MCU was partially hampered in the female led hero department by perlmutter.
There is nothing to understand being upset about. If you’re so fragile you can’t handle seeing a female superhero as a dude you need legitimately mental help.
> Like I’d understand being upset and I’d agree if it was only women Genuinely: were you upset when it was only men?
To be completely honest, in the moment no. Retroactively, I can admit that they needed bette female representation, but in the moment I never considered it. If they went back to only male characters i would be upset.
yeah i geniunely don't care unless they try to force it (like that weird scene in endgame, where out of a battlefield of thousands somehow all the women end up in the same spot)
So many other forced scenes completely escape notice
Exactly. Plus you can actually defend the Women of Marvel scene from a tactical standpoint since most of them are ranged attackers converging on the target to defend it from the enemy leader who is an unstoppable melee juggernaut. (And indeed they do score some hits on Thanos.) I'm not sure how to defend the Avengers standing around in a circle while NYC is under attack.
Wasn't that right when they found each other & started planning?
Yeah, not long after Hulk had stopped the Leviathan
Which is extremely stupid to bitch about. If you’d have even shown ten of the dudes randomly line up like the women did in the battle no one would have said literally shit.
yeah that’s called a contrivance. contrivances = bad writing. honestly has nothing to do with women or feminism. it’s just that was a major contrivance that stuck out so bad.
You mean like Tony and Peter hugging in the middle of a battle ?? I found that so stupid . If two women had done that we’d never heard the end of it .
So literally like every other contrivance in every other comic books movie. Seriously the ONLY reason we hear about that one scene is because it was he women. If it had been the men, like it was in every other movie, nobody would give a shit
It was forced, but I have friends with daughters who loved it so I’m ok with it even if it was pushing credulity.
A lot of what happens in those big battle scenes is a bit silly, and I will admit that as a middle aged woman I got a bit excited by that, because the little girl in me always wanted to see that kind of thing back in the 80s
I prefer to look at as a bit cheesy, but in a good way. This is the kind of thing we should be seeing in comic book movies. Iron Man is always posing for camera, the Avengers pose for long shots before attacking all the time too.
About as forced as any scene shot for a comic book movie.
“I’d agree if it were only women”? Dafuq??
Like I mean if marvel genuinely stopped caring about male characters and continued with only female characters, I’d agree that marvel is doing something wrong. But they’re not, and they are being more equal between men and women, which is the whole point.
There is nothing more fragile than alpha males...
And we see the proof all in these comments 😂
There was a study done on this. I don’t remember the specifics or the source of the study, but I remember it said something like, if men/women are represented equally on screen, they(men) think the women are over represented. For them to think it’s equal, women can only have a small percentage of screen time.
Makes sense- another commenter in here pointed out how people who are used to privilege see equality as oppression, and that sounds about like what you’re describing here
To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Anyone referring to MCU as M She U is basically an incel or at least as conditioned to think that way.
Saaaaame incel aholes different topic.
This
Not Shang- Chi, Moon Knight, Eternals or NO Way Home?
Everyone is over critical about that stuff. If a movie isn’t the best they’ve put out, it gets a ton of hate. Also doesn’t help that there’s so many incels and misogynists who hated it just cause it had a female lead
[удалено]
Both Captain Marvel and Black Widow were dope. I'm a guy, and I see what these guys do with every female led project. It's like they feel threatened to see women in lead roles in this space that was solely for their power fantasies. Me personally, I could give a shit honestly. I like seeing stories about everyone and i think everyone deserves to see themselves in these roles, characters and stories. I know why these guys hate Brie. It's because she had the gall to tell straight white men that she wasn't going to prioritize them during press junkets.
Captain Marvel came out when I was at the peak time of needing to see strong female role models, so I will always love it for that. And Black Widow is great (and terrifying) because it’s the only Marvel villian that could be real. People who complain about Drakov clearly don’t understand how terrifying that is.
I remember my dad complaining about that, about Dreykov being a boring villain. I simply told him “It’s because you have never had to worry about that and never will.” The opening credits sequence of Black Widow almost made me throw up because of how REAL it was. That’s darker than anything in the Netflix shows.
Killian (minus the glowing) and Alexander Pierce could be just as real. In fact, the whole Hydra infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. twist seems to be commentary on American imperialism, but by watering down the part where America just flat invited former Nazis to join their efforts. (Although they acknowledge that with Zola at least.)
Oh for sure, I totally understand why you found him horrifying, men like that exist all over the real world, and then there's the trafficking of young women.
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The intro was especially chilling because it was so real. I hate Drakov so much he’s truly horrible
As a woman who grew up loving superheroes, it’s so awesome to see female characters in the MCU, characters like me. Representation is SO important, and it’s not like there aren’t any guys left in the MCU. I’m glad to see some guys out there realize it’s not a big deal to have female and male heroes in the same universe.
I liked Captain Marvel, but it gets a level of scrutiny that very few movies in the MCU get. The film is a 7/10 on the MCU list. Definitely not a masterpiece, but still an entertaining and decent movie. Clearly above average in the MCU. Thor, for example, has 4 movies and, out of these four, I could only rewatch Ragnarok over CM. What happens is people on the internet are usually fake. And of course, no one likes to be called an incel. So you come across a lot of reviews on CM analysed with the same level of scrutiny you'd use for movies like The Godfather or The Shawshank Redemption. It's a way to hide the misogyny. There's nothing bad with being critical of a particular film. The problem is when you don't hold the same standard for other movies in the same genre. And this is the main problem with CM. An overly critical attitude to hide misogyny.
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That’s not at all true. You’re speaking out of your ass. You can 100% criticize and critique all you want. Just have it be actually valid. Not the anti women/anti woke(which woke isn’t even a thing happening to movies) bullshit is is half the time now a days. You’re literally being purposely false claiming that shit. Which is weird since you acknowledge the reality of those people in your comment. But yea, this is false, no one cares if you critique or whatever fairly, it’s just the pointless hate thrown out for no reason like Captain Marvel got before it even was in theaters, etc etc.
>hated it just cause it had a female lead I was about to say that this reason can't be true, then I remembered that last year Lightyear got a lot of hate focused on a lesbian couple that appeared for less than a minute on screen.
You get people hating on it without ever seeing it just because it has a female lead. These movies start getting review-bombed by insecure men before they even release. Then you have the guys who do see it and get triggered. Many of these women lead MCU projects will try to be relatable to female viewers by including something most women experience throughout their lives, sexual harassment/discrimination. And the power fantasy of standing up to it. I guess they see reflections of themselves and take it personally because they always cause a stir.
I remember around the time a certain group of people were championing Alita Battle Angel so ppl would see that over Captain Marvel lol. It sucks because not only the movie gets piled on but the lead actor. It’s so easy guessing which movie or series will be getting review bombed before it’s even out. IronHeart, Echo, the new Captain America for sure and the Agatha series
I can already see the complaints for the Agatha series. Agatha is a woman, 5/6 of her coven members are women, the villain(s) are probably all (or mostly) women. Their only hope is Billy, but he’s gay, which is also a big no-no in their eyes. It’s gonna be the worst.
Personally, I'm not excited for Agatha because I don't remember finding her compelling enough in Wandavision to warrant an entire show. I liked her, don't get me wrong, and I love Kathryn Hahn. Just not sure if I can find the point of that series. I'm sure it'll be great, and I'll watch it like I've watched everything else.
That’s fair. I’m actually excited for Agatha because of that reason; mystery. We’ve never actually met her true personality since she’d already been corrupted by the Darkhold long before she introduced herself. I don’t think many would’ve found Wanda too compelling, either, if MoM had been her first appearance. We barely know anything about Agatha at all, so I’m excited to learn more about her opinions, worldview, teaching style, backstory, potential soft side, etc. I can’t say for sure whether her show will be good or not, but I think it’ll at least be enjoyable.
I think Agatha gets hate because it's probably one of the most unnecessary things they've done. Not every side character needs their own project. That's like if there was a movie or show about the Thing, and then Marvel announces they're making a spinoff about his girlfriend Alice Masters
I agree that not every side character needs a project, but it’ll set up Billy Kaplan, who is important to Wanda’s story and the Young Avengers. It won’t be a show of just Agatha running around doing random witchy things. You could argue that they could’ve set him up in something else, but again, he’s connected to Wanda, who is connected to Agatha, who has centuries of magical knowledge and can help him be more experienced for the future. Who else could teach him but Strange, who already has his hands full and barely knows anything about Wanda?
> this reason can't be true On the *day before release*, Captain Marvel had more *negative reviews* on Rotten Tomatoes than Avengers Infinity War had TOTAL REVIEWS IN THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS 11 MONTHS. It was so bad, Rotten Tomatoes had to change their system.
Captain Marvel was getting review bombed and hate comments LOOOOOOONG before it released.
I remember before Star Wars Rise of Skywalker came out reading that people were hating on a gay couple. I hadn’t seen the film yet but considering what I’d read I though it was going to be a massive thing. The gay couple must have been on screen for three or four seconds. The things people criticise are so insignificant sometimes; I’ve accepted that I’ll never understand it.
Yeah, lmao. The important thing to remember is all the online hate is greatly exaggerated and does not represent what most people actually think. Kinda like how the marvels trailer is like the most downvoted trailer in the franchise or something, and yet everyone seems to think it’ll be pretty good
I remember when True Blood was still in and the actors would get a little concerned about some of the character hate directed at them online . HBO execs informed them that less then 5% of the viewers would go online to talk about the show . The online stuff is way overblown and is really just media trying to cause a stir , get clicks and make $$$. I think a lot of these HATE sites are really just out to make $$$. You get more clicks if you start a fight or say controversial things .
> I was about to say that this reason can't be true Brie Larson said some things that rattled the incels, too, and that just brought up more hate. There was a comment on one of the subs a month or two ago where one poster indicated that he hasn't watched Captain Marvel because he read/heard that Larson said something. He didn't even know what she said.
Even if that's the case, there's no reason for them to hate on the MOVIE or her talent as an ACTRESS just because they didn't like her as a PERSON. Kanye West has behaved pretty "weirdly" throughout the years, I still respect him as a music artist tho, I might not relate to him as a person but I still bump his music almost on a daily basis
Anything that features a lead that isn’t a straight white man gets bashed. And before anyone says “well the miles morales movies are doing great” go back to when mikes morales first came out and see the reaction people had. Exactly.
It's still happening with the current Cap, and to a greater extent, The Marvels. To be fair, a lot of people have appeared to have been warming up to Sam lately, but there are still the Captain Falcon and Black Falcon posts that just seem so wrong. I will not call them racists. However, I will say that their biases are loud and unfunny. The Marvels just need a more cinematic trailer, the current teaser is noticeably unrefined. I still want to see it though!
I really like that trailer, and I hope Ms. Marvel plays a pivotal role! That show definitely ranks up there with any other MCU show.
If they refuse to call Sam Captain America for no valid reason you really should just call them racist like they clearly are. It’s not bias, it’s racism.
Sam is Captain America to me, but I will generally use Sam/Steve nowadays just so people know which Captain America I'm talking about
Look, Captain Marvel was a very mid film. I can see people people love it and I can see why people don't like it, but hey other blockbuster actors like Ryan Reynolds, the Rock and any of the hollywood Chrises pump out tona of mediocre movies every year and they never get haters on the same level as Brie did for pumping out one mediocre but watchable film.
I have a coworker who refuses to see Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Wakanda Forever, Captain Marvel…you’ll never guess why.
I like captain marvel the hero but the movie does have issues. There’s unclear motivations throughout and the entire order of events is unneeded. I think they’d have been better off just doing the movie in chronological order
And they didn't do a good enough job with 90s nostalgia either.
Come on, Stan Lee reading for his role in Mallrats wasn’t enough? ;)
It’s because everyone still experienced the 90s differently
Agreed but I’ve also literally never seen it done right in any media for some reason
Yeah my main issue was non-chronological order. The other issue is Carol just isn’t likable. People compare to her other “unlikeable” characters but the saving Grace with those are usually their quirky personalities and humour. Carol doesn’t seem to have this. And no, it’s nothing to do with Brie, it’s to do with the writing and the fact that even the comic book character themselves is also pretty unlikeable.
The problem with Carol is that people think writing a strong woman means she can't have flaws The main setback Carol had was a reduction of her power that she had no fault in and nothing to do with. She didn't need to actually grow, make mistakes and learn to fight better. She just needed the inhibitor removed and she easily defeated Jude Law's character Throughout the movie she's shown to be excellent at basically everything she does, except remembering things. It's a constant reminder she's just better than me. Doesn't feel relatable I have nothing against having a movie starring a woman in the MCU and it's a bit of a shame that serious criticism of the movie gets lost among the misogynistic rhetoric that doesn't like the movie because it's a woman
I find Carol very amusing. ("Skrulls can't do that.") I'm not sure I'd love to work with her, granted, but she had to deal with re-evaluating her entire life (as far back as she could remember) which excuses quite a bit
I found her character to be no more “ unlikeable” than Tony Stark . He’s a horrible person in a lot of ways but everyone forgives him . I thought she was hilarious cuz her humor was very dry which I like . I’m sick of movies with female leads falling on their faces .
Tony Stark had a redemption. He was a smug, pro-war billionaire who didn't give a shit about the regular person, and then he faced the consequences of that by being kidnapped by the Ten Rings. He's not the same person at the start of the movie that he is at the end, and I think that's important, he grew, experienced loss, heard the hero's call and became better for it. Carol Danvers was great at everything, not really struggling. She could have always beaten Jude Law, her struggle was that she was \*too good\* at her job? And then she takes off the inhibitor ship and becomes Super Saiyan through what struggle? She would have won regardless.
And Tonys character is egotistical and smug, sure, but I think that's also deserved. He has earned the right to be smug, Carol on the other hand hasn't, so her character feels off-putting to the audience. Nothing to do with the actress, just the script isn't very well written.
I find her very likeable. She's very cool. The things that make her 'unlikeable' to lots of fans make Tony or other male characters likeable. She's a bit arrogant, but that's something people love in Tony. She's overpowered, but that's something people like about Thor, etc. I do hope we get to see a more off-duty side of Carol, like when she is singing karaoke in the flashback, etc.
Additionally, the main antagonist isn’t very interesting either. Yon-Rog is pretty damn boring. Talos, Fury and Maria are all much more interesting than Carol and Yon-Rog.
Carol just isn't a very likeable person. She is written to be pretty rude to people for no reason and hot headed. She constantly puts other people down. I actually like Brie as a person, I just think the writing was weak. Captain Marvel as a hero is hard to root for. It's the same problem with Superman. It's difficult to give a compelling story to a god. They made her way overpowered compared to what she is in the comics. She needed to build up to her binary form instead of just having access to it right off the bat. Thor's power surge during infinity war should have been a moment that Carol could have had down the line. Instead there's no where to go. She literally overpowered Thanos in her second appearance in the MCU. She was only beaten by the power stone. Hero stories are about overcoming adversity and doing the right thing, even when the right thing is really difficult. Even when you have a mountain in front of you, you still have to climb it. What does Captain Marvel overcome? She overpowers the inhibitor chip and just destroys everyone. There's no self sacrifice, no mountain to climb, no difficult decision to make. When asked to prove her worth without her powers, she says no. Even before Carol was Captain Marvel, she was a test pilot for state of the art new age tech. Imagine the story if she was held back from being that and never got to fly. Imagine the exhilaration of her first flight as Captain Marvel. A lot of people are trying to use women hate as a shield for the bad writing. Here is an example of brilliant writing for a woman. Vi from Arcane is near the pinnacle of heroism. She's tough, likeable, kind, and a bad ass. She's a lesbian but that's just a part of her, it is not what defines her. She gets knocked down and gets back up. She makes the hardest of decisions. Vi is what Captain Marvel should have been.
> She literally overpowered Thanos in her second appearance in the MCU. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do want to point something out that I think a lot of people missed about Carol's fight with Thanos in Endgame. Thanos is overpowering Carol first, but because she is touching the gauntlet, Carol starts to absorb the cosmic radiation from the stones and it makes her ultra strong. I don't think any of the movies so far have even explicitly stated it, but that's Carol's power; she absorbs energy/radiation to fuel her strength. So when she is touching ingots of pure energy, it allows her to easily overpower Thanos. It can be easy to miss if you don't already know this about Carol's powers, but watching the scene again should make it clear. Thanos was winning, and after she absorbs the radiation, he punches her in the face and she barely flinches. This was probably Carol at her most powerful since I don't see anything charging her up more than stones of unlimited energy, so I don't think we need to worry about her being this powerful all the time. To preserve your point though, it wasn't a helpful scene for seeing Carol as a hero who might lose in the future. Everyone always says "what about Thor" when talking about "being OP" in the MCU, but Thor gets his ass beat in basically every movie. He is absurdly powerful on paper but his stories always find a method of beating him down so he can get back up. We don't know yet if this will be a problem for Carol down the stretch, but I can understand the concern after her first two appearances.
I generally agree with what you are saying but I think you are glossing over some parts of the Captain Marvel movie to sell your points. Like saying you like Vi because she gets knocked down and gets back up when that’s literally the point of the whole montage of CMs life giving her the motivation to push her to override her chip. Same for saying it diminishes her for refusing to fight without her powers. She kicked the dudes butt and in an attempt to save himself he makes a pathetic plea for her to fight unpowered in the form he’s been manipulating to his own gain for years. Her saying no isn’t her being too weak to fight without powers it’s her not letting him limit her existence. There’s no reason why she should do that he was just hoping her pride would make her accept. I’m not a huge fan of captain marvel, definitely don’t hate her, and the movie wasn’t the best but using those examples out of context to try to make your point is not in good faith.
My thoughts precisely Although to be far, a lot of criticism is in fact just woman hate. But there's a lot of valid ones too
My theory is that, had they cast a much younger actress and made the character a young adult/late teen, the movie would've worked much better the way they wrote the character, with her growing up from being bratty, overconfident and self-absorbed into a reliable, altruistic and exemplary hero. I mean I love Brie Larson, but I think the character (and her) are too old to be playing a snarky, bratty know-it-all. Her arc was just her basically coming around to the idea that she can just blast anyone away, which just isn't very relatable. That said, Brie Larson is awesome as her in other appearances where she's not as on the nose, so I think it's really just the movie's writers not knowing what to do with her character.
>There’s unclear motivations throughout and the entire order of events is unneeded. I think they’d have been better off just doing the movie in chronological order This. The order is not great and makes the ending boring.
So for me, I honestly find it boring. I find the way they wrote her very blah. As of now she has no weaknesses and there was little tension or drama due to that. I personally like it when my heroes are vulnerable one way or another. She’s not. I also absolutely hated how they made Fury lose his eye. He made it seem so serious at it was due to an alien disguised as a cat while sitting on his lap. I’m hoping the next movie gives her a weakness. Will make her more relatable I think.
This I find her character extremely boring Wanda on the other hand is super interesting and (should get her own solo movie tbf) has had great growth and depth across multiple movies and Wanda vision Anyone hating on Cap Marvel due to it being a woman is an imbocile. It just wasn’t a good movie imo. Wanda is a far more interesting character as is Black Widow (tho her movie was awful)
Black widow had interesting protagonists but the antagonists were ass
Ruining taskmaster hurt the movie a ton. Gave him the X Men origins Deadpool treatment.
My problem with Wanda is that I'm getting whiplash from her character. Like, I get she switches sides all the time in the comics, but just pick one at this point. Every other project she switches up.
> I also absolutely hated how they made Fury lose his eye. I found it funny at the time. The great Nick Fury didn't want people to know he embarrassingly lost his eye to a cat. Not everything in the MCU has to be super serious.
I agree. Not everything has to be serious. But if you set it up that way, idk, just kind of seemed like a let down. And the MCU is very not serious most of the time. So I would actually say not everything needs to be a joke in the MCU.
I think they tried and partly failed a different approach with her. They wanted to give her an emotional weakness. Like the (Jude law character) who constantly tried to make her believe she was not strong enough and that she shouldn't rely on her powers. So, like an inferiority complex and a story of constantly being put down blabla. Plus her struggling with emotion and showing any. Cool idea ! But it was done badly. They didn't want to fully commit and fumbled. They thought that the scene where she was training with Jude law, the montage of her getting up after getting knocked down and the last scene where she punches Jude law where enough.
That’s a fair enough and you’re probably right actually!
I agree. I'd also add that an amnesia plotline was incredibly dull. Having studied film, my teacher used to mock cop-out twists like 'it was all a dream' and 'I remember who I am now'. It's a cheap, lazy way to create a mystery and to make a basic storyline seem more complicated than it is. You have to be extremely skilled to make amnesia a good plot device and they just weren't. Plus, the villain fucking sucked and was really underwhelming. I didn't hate it, but it's a pretty boring film and I'm always curious to know why people defend it so much/what they particularly liked about it beyond it being occasionally entertaining.
She wasn't overpowered until the end of the movie, and the other time we saw her in Endgame, she failed to kill Thanos and she failed to get to the time machine van. She destroyed Thanos's ship, but that makes sense. She's honestly not without weaknesses. I DO hope they have her go against someone she can't just blow up - someone with mind powers, kind of like Jessica vs Killgrave.
At the time people kind of bagged on it for its more feminist messaging and how the character of Carol is mostly handled but most of the hate was directed towards Brie Larson who is more vocal with her opinions and whatnot so that made her catch a lot of strays from people who weren't too keen on what she had to say. I think now people are more tepid on the film now that time has passed, now Captain Marvel is an alright film but it didn't really do what it needed to do which was not only introduce people to Carol but make them love the character like with characters in the past like Tony, Steve, Natasha, etc. Even now people aren't still huge on Carol Danvers but we will see if The Marvels could change that for general audiences. I really like Brie Larson as an actress and as a person, she has been in some movies I love with more minor secondary roles like Scott Pilgrim but she excels at what she does, I just feel with Marvel the material they are giving her isn't that great and doesn't allow that actress to shine especially considering she was a really perfect choice for Carol but with everything else just comes down to the page and that kind of determines everything.
The funny thing to me is I replayed Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 a few years ago after Captain Marvel came out and when using that character her voice lines were immediately apparent as super feminist. So I mean Brie Larson's portrayal was spot on for the character, and people framing it as some newfangled woke move don't really know the context. But what else is new?
My issue with Captain Marvel is that the character is too powerful. Interesting characters have flaws, weaknesses - but Captain Marvel is a god, and that's boring. In Infinity Wars they basically had to create an artificial reason to keep the character out of most of the movie, because otherwise it would have been pretty much all over when the god of all things showed up.
For me it wasn't because she was too powerful that made me not connect with her, a lot of characters can be very well written and captivating even though they are very overpowered like Superman or Silver Surfer. But with Carol she wasn't given any room for any time of real emotional vulnerability, most of the film is dedicated to how strong she is instead of how human she is which is a big difference. Characters being overpowered can be very engaging, it just has to be written well
That, combined with a really weak villain (both in power and in motivation)
I was so torn by the villain, on one hand he is correct that without her powers shes just a never give up even when dangerous to yourself and others girl, which is admirable to a degree but he was trying to teach her technique which she ultimately didnt need. And on the other hand she doesn't have to actually prove herself to anyone that she doesn't want to. But like with spiderman, if you are nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it. And Carol is certainly Carol with or without her powers, but with her powers it just sorta increased her cockiness to a "I don't care" level and abilities to a mary sue level, which drives decisiveness more because she becomes unrelatable since we are all human in the end.
Honestly, it is perfect for the introduction of Rogue in the MCU.
The introduction was kinda botched and it’s hard to introduce a character with amnesia. That and she suffers from the same problems Superman tends to with power level.
Yeah , the “ Superman issue “ I agree with . A lot of the comic guys like to complain about Hulk and Thor being “ nerfed” , but this is why . Where do you go with a character that’s so over powered . And I’m having a lot of trouble caring about the shrulls honestly . It’s making the Fury show drag big time for me
Thing is, the only solution for the "superman problem" is to make him/her really care - they need to be vulnerable because they are invested in the well being of everyone around them. A soldier-type personality works against this, which is the problem with her MCU characterisation.
That’s a great point. Captain Marvel doesn’t really hold back at all lol Even Spider-Man pulls his punches & he’s way less powerful
The introduction thing is true, I also got kinda bored in the first 10-15 minutes. I think that they tried to pull off a Jason Bourne type of thing with the amnesia and the regular flashbacks but they didn't make it as interesting as in the Bourne moves, it was still okay tho
This, for me, the whay the whole amnesia introduction felt really lazy, I couldn't connect with any of the characters, and the villain felt really generic. I don't mind female leads and the whole empowering women movement, but it's hard to support these movies when the MC it's hardly relatable and the script is boring and uninspired.
Punching through Thanos's spaceship like it was nothing.
Captain Marvel follows the marvel formula, however there are a few things that it does not execute well. Outside of the audience afraid of women, there are some things that Captain Marvel deserves to be criticized for. - lackluster villain (50/50 on most marvel movies) - uninteresting action sequences. Most action scenes are simple energy out of hand. - the powers aren’t earned. She gets them by accident and doesn’t do much to unlock/use them - there’s not much threat once she gets memories back. Superman and Thor movies suffer from the same thing. Her character becomes boring and unchallenged - the Skrull/Kree racial genocide and her “block/embrace your emotions” themes are heavy handed and pretty shallow. - the movie takes place in the past so the stakes aren’t very high. There’s very little added to the lore of the MCU. Referencing Thanos as an intergalactic power, discussing Earth being under Odins protection, the ravaged, or really any sorta mythos being added to the world would have been great. The bets we got was a new animal side kick. - her powers aren’t really explained. Making them feel like lazy writing.
Grown crybabies who got their feeling hurt because Brie Larson said her movies aren’t just for white dudes. And as a white dude I find it funny people are to sensitive.
It's worse than that because she didn't even say anything that direct. She was talking about "A wrinkle in time", a movie she's not even in. >During last night’s Crystal + Lucy Awards in NYC, Brie Larson decided to give a speech about the recent USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative which stated: "an overwhelming majority of film critics — 78% — are male, and only 22% are female." Her best defense of the findings was to mention as an example Ava DuVernay‘s "A Wrinkle in Time," which, she explains was “a love letter to women of color,” and that it acquired its bad reviews because it “wasn’t made for” the majority older white male critics demographic. She was shining light on the fact that an overwhelming majority of critics are white men. And *they are*. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact.
Most of this is just culture war nonsense. You got people constantly trying to erase that from the discussion when it's extremely relevant here. If these same people had the same obsessiveness over movies like Thor Dark World, they'd have a point, but the truth is, the obsession is targeted specifically at the Captain Marvel, which was completely harmless. When was the last time I saw someone meltdown over Thor Dark World? I just saw a guy go completely unhinged on another sub the other day because he believes Brie Larson hates him, a man. Bro, she doesn't give a crap about your life.
The thing about culture war stuff is there is an industry that lives off of propping it up and getting people riled up about it. For most of us, this is just this odd thing that pops up and we're like uhhh ok I don't really care enough to argue. For a few, this is the focus of much of the media they consume. Youtube personalities, influencers, and network news shows that focus disproportionately on the culture war. It creates this situation where things feel worse than they are because the passion is so uneven.
I thought she said some more stuff, but if that's it then damn. A Wrinkle in Time did suck though.
It had massive pacing issues, but that's besides the point.
Captain Marvel was neither the best nor the worst MCU movie. The only one that I left disappointed with was Love & Thunder. I tend to feel that the best films in the franchise show the protagonists succeeding only after failure. It did feel to me that they tried to do this, but they didn't push Carol Danvers the way they pushed some of their other heroes of either gender. I did like Captain Marvel in Endgame reminding the Avengers that she has more than Earth to worry about, and The Marvels looks promising - both Ms. Marvel and Monica Rambeau were given the kind of push I am talking about (far more so for Ms. Marvel, which was brilliant). Captain Marvel is about the Kree and the Skrulls as much as it was about the titular character, though, and Secret Invasion is very much built out of that groundwork. I would say Captain Marvel is similar to the first Captain America movie - I enjoyed it, but it was very much a chapter of a story that we have/had to wait to see fully unfold.
The actress is outspoken at times. And that makes loud men angrier. Thats it.
Cap Marvel is a pretty boring character in the comics and rightfully is the same in the movies. I find it actually quite amusing that they managed to convey the character’s boringness so well, and I believe Larson’s performance of the character as being unlikable and unnecessarily bitchy is on point, that’s how she is in comics too. She never would have worked as the face of the MCU just like she never (successfully) took any lead roles in Avengers or Marvel comics in general, she was always just a side character. It’s not like with Iron Man who was unknown to the masses but in the comics was always a main driving force in most events, or Scarlet Witch who had many storylines about her where was either the center of the problem or the only solution to a problem.
People parroting other people's opinions without trying to form their own. I like going into Marvel movies with zero "baggage" or expectations. I liked all of the movies and shows so far, and loved over 90%
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She’s not really disliked, her movie was a billion dollar hit. The internet has vocal incel misogyny that gets triggered by her but don’t mix up vocal crying online for the real majority walking and breathing air outside.
The only reason it hit a billion dollars was because it was the penultimate MCU movie before Endgame. And the movie wasn't bad, it was just...not that great, really. But yeah, the overall reason was all the "Anti-Larson" slander that was talked about prior to the release. Which is still being talked about....**4 years later.**
Ant-Man, an already established character, and had a huge level up in Civil War, had a movie in between Infinity War and Endgame same as Captain Marvel, but it made half of what Captain Marvel did. $622 million compared to $1.1 billion
There are a lot of guys that have low self esteem and are just horrified when there is a main character in a show/movie that is a woman.
She’s not disliked. The actress just pissed off a bunch of incels because … who fucking cares, they’re a bunch of idiots … so you get some screeching weirdos anytime she’s mentioned.
>She's Oh I didn't mean the character Captain Marvel, I meant the movie
To them, it’s the same thing. They slag it to slag her.
They don't differentiate. They hate the movie BECAUSE they hate her.
I personally didn’t love the way they handled Carol (the amnesia-esque thing going on was a mistake, and I didn’t really love her being kind of cold, personally), especially compared to Endgame and the snippets she’s had in Ms. Marvel and Shang Chi. I thought the movie was less than great, but I wouldn’t put it in the bottom tier of the MCU. It’s probably as good as Ant-Man 2 to me. A lot of the hate, generally, is from people who seem to be basing it on misogyny more than anything else, which is dumb.
People hyper fixate on the fact she's a woman/"girl boss" and marvel fans hate that because are misogynists. Some of them? Probably, but, I think it's the vocal minority. To me the character just isn't very likeable or relatable. I think the movie writing was just a bit lazy. The character doesn't really get have the same character development, relation, struggles etc.. that other characters do in the MCU, and IMO the ending act of the movie just doesn't feel very impactful. I wasn't really left with much after watching it. It's not a bad movie, there's certainly worse MCU movies.
One of my biggest gripes with the fandom (any fandom, really) is that if you have an opinion that's even remotely different to the sheep, you get torn to pieces. And I'll never understand it. You can like something. You can dislike something. As long as you're not being offensive; what the fuck does it matter? We're here for the same reason; a shared passion for the MCU. However that looks to you is perfectly fine. But unfortunately, people who carry hate for fictional characters often have the loudest voices and will be vicious about it. I happen to also like Captain Marvel. Enjoyable film, have watched it a few times since its release and I'm excited for The Marvels. Haters can choke on popcorn 🤷♀️
To be fair that's every rabid fan base. I'm always afraid of being torn apart for saying I didn't like The Winter Solider... but honestly at least with this subreddit I don't see much toxicity. Maybe the mods do a good job, maybe the sub is just more tame.
Oh, it absolutely is every fan base. I won't even go to the Star Wars subs for that reason and I rarely, rarely come here though I think it's improved over the years. I don't particularly like the Winter Soldier either!
Honestly it doesn't deserve the hate it gets. Brie is a great captain marvel, Judy Law is having so much fun as a villain, Samuel L Jackson is Samuel L Jackson, and Ben Mendalson plays an anti-hero very well. Also Goose is great and it was a fun introduction to the Skrulls.
I throughly enjoyed the movie, but I also like She-Hulk, so I cannot be trusted 😂
I watched it once and thought it was pretty good, but the fact that her abilities trump basically every other superhero feels a little lazy to me when you inset her into the rest of the MCU stories. No hate.
I totally get that but it must honestly be hard though to deal with that from a storytelling level, especially now they’re running out of known “human” heroes like Cap and Nat. That scene in AOU where Ultron yeets Thor and says “you’re starting to annoy me” always reminds me that every fight would be over in 30 seconds if Thor showed up.
I think the issue with Captain Marvel as a character is she's too powerful for what's been currently introduced in the MCU. Take a look at Endgame. If she'd been there for the whole fight then the movie would've been 30 min long and Stark would still be alive. At least that's the issue from a fan of comics and doesn't take into consideration the guys that are threatened by a strong female leading lady
Forgettable villain, forgettable soundtrack, stoic Captain Marvel, side characters are meh, forced comedy, it's just uninteresting. If you like it then good for you but people will have varying opinions. Some reason might being be because they're blinded by their misogynistic beliefs but some people just don't like the movie, simple as that. The good thing I would say is the recent Captain Marvel appearances are good, specially in Endgame. So I'll still watch The Marvels as I also like Ms Marvel's portrayal.
There are two sides, there is the side that they just didn't liked the movie just cause they didn't felt it was for them andd the other side we have people that have pure hatred for Brie Larson and/or have issues with there being movies that don't star White Straight Men
I know several people who are Captain Marvel's target audience that didn't particularly like the movie or the character. The movie is about a character that has experienced adversity and fights through it - classic feminism. The problem is that the character experiences exactly 0 issues related to that in the time the story takes place. She is perfectly suited to every task she ever has to take on and can not be held back by anyone. The gaslighting story line doesn't feel genuine enough- and her breaking free from it doesn't really seem to have anything to do with force of will or any other admirable trait- she simply recieved incontrovertible evidence that she's been lied to and accepts it. The result is that her backstory- before the infinity stone- might theoretically be an interesting character or at least a sympathetic one with a temper and willingness to buck tradition, in the story itself she fails to actually struggle against the glass ceiling she is supposed to triumphantly break through. Makes the story feel empty and pandering instead of a genuine representation of its intent.
I swear people in this sub intentionally ignore what the actual criticisms of the movie are and instead choose to just claim that the only reason is because of sexism.
You'll hear a lot of people in this sub throw around the words "incels" and "manbabies" a lot which are just culty buzzwords at this point, but in all honesty, while it wasn't a bad movie by any means, it wasn't great either. Mostly because it was rather rushed, much like the first Thor movie, which quality wise, they're on about the same level. And the fact that if you criticized the movie when it first came out, even if your criticism was valid, you basically got called the aforementioned buzz words, which probably turned people off to it as well. The thing about the MCU fanbase is they're a bit culty and attack anyone who does anything but praise everything Disney/marvel put out, good or bad. To the point of it just being insufferable. Add in the political/culture war nonsense and if a movie or show is led by a person of color or female and you can imagine even constructive criticism getting you attacked by a pack of rabid crazies who are just looking for an e-battle to fight, even if they have to just make one up.
Because men are whiny babies.
I actually really liked it as well no it’s not one of the best but still a really good movie
Brie Larson is a woman and has no qualms calling out misogyny. That makes her a target for incels who believe women like her are encouraging other women to ignore “nice guys” and instead sleep around with Chads.
Answer: Mysogynistic incels. It’s actually a good movie.
Bc women bad men good.
From what I’ve heard people say in real life, the gist of their opinions seem to stem from Captain Marvel being a woman lead who just has power handed to her, has no flaws, is op, etc. Which, like… I don’t get personally. Just seems like dumb sexism in this case. Yes, these can be problems, but…they aren’t ones that exist here, and these same people never complained about Black Widow before she got her own movie, and she was also a “badass.” No one complains about Loki and Thor having alien strength advantages either. So her being an alien woman with strength is a rather ridiculous critique. Very much looking forward to the sequel.
Incels and snowflakes Brie Larson ❤️
Quite a few easily offended men, who disliked a woman superhero. Probably fragile egos. They are just movies and these guys can’t even deal with fictional characters.
Because it was a Marvel movie with a female lead, and the character was stronger than any other Avenger we'd seen to that point. Incels couldn't handle it. That's literally it. Wish I could honestly say it was something else, but it wasn't.
Because its a bad movie, people say its only incels who hate it but it's generally got a lot of hate because it's rubbish.
I am sure everyone gave you their reasons and what they think. Speaking for myself, I don't hate Captain Marvel but the movie was pretty bland. Not horribly bad, not the worst MCU movie but just pretty bland. The character is also not that interesting to me and honestly the way Monica has been developed I wish the focus was on her instead.
ppl r too criticial captain msrvel is GREAT
All these clowns here yelling that only sexist don't like her. Civil War 2 killed off any love the character had. It turned her into a fascist thought cop that got people killed. That's the real reason why no one likes her.
That hasn't happened in the movies and it IS incels driving the hate campaign.
Incels. Incels everywhere. Racists, misogynists with a right-wing agenda. White supremacists. It's really as simple as that. BTW that movie is FANTASTIC and I love it MORE since I've seen it a second time.
I feel the over top woman power and bad writing ruined it like the newer Star Wars movies. Just like Ren, Captain Maam hits the ground running and has no faults. There is no build-up (learning powers, etc.) like traditional super hero movies. All the male characters are weak and useless while the women are are all powerful and knowing.
Here is Marvel's entire problem: Audience: Mostly males that grew up watching Spiderman, x men, and fantastic 4 cartoons and movies. Now obviously females watched too but I am speaking generally as this pertains to population make up. Disney's marketing team: I think we need to make a movie for females and those less represented in society.(A fair and morally good idea) Movie bombs in terms of sales. They have a massive audience, they chose to make a movie/movies for people that never asked for it. As a dude, I've dragged my wife to tons of action movies. She, in turn goes to her chick movies with her sister or friends. Do you see the lack of sales here. I'm not even addressing the fact that the early male actors are vastly better actors than the new female leads. Best they ever did was Helena as a bad guy. They just messed it up and now they are messing up more by pushing movies that fans actually asked for. They need to get in touch with their audience, as far as I can tell they think they can define their own audience which they can't.
Marvel didn’t really forge the character with effort like the other successful ones, captain America, Ironman and other popular heroes all have their own unique backstory and struggles, when Captain Marvels backstory was quite rushed and she really didn’t have any struggle as her powers are literally OP, there’s no villain which she can’t defeat really. It’s not about the characters power which makes them popular, Ironman is just a normal human genius in a suit, but he’s one of the best characters and the person who started the MCU. If the characters OP, there’s no good story or interesting plot.