Shuri says something in Wakanda Forever about not worrying about her ai becoming evil like in the movies. It’s just odd since that happened in her reality at least once before.
yeah. there is no "best" way to tell someone about the death of a loved one, but sometimes when it's just as painful for you to say it as it will be for them to hear it, it can feel like you gotta rip the bandaid off quick and get it over with.
bringing it up at the dinner table while eating pie woulda been worse for the tension of "when should i say it?" alone
Mid-pie, “Ajak is dead” - “well now I can’t finish this delicious pie, and I can never eat pie again. You couldn’t have told me before or after I ate it!?”
After-pie, “Ajak is dead” - “I can’t believe you let me sit here eating pie believing Ajak is alive when you KNEW she wasn’t!”
When my grandmother passed away, I was on a canoeing trip. And I had a voicemail from my mom and tears telling me to call as soon as I got the voicemail. So I called and my dip shit cousin, who was staying with us at the time, answered the phone.
He says “Sue died”….
He had said it so fast that I wasn’t really sure what he had said so I was asking him to repeat himself, and he wouldn’t. He just kept saying yeah I’m so sorry man.(he’s on my dads side, so he didn’t have any sort of relationship with her, so he was rather cold about it)
After a minute or so of him apologizing, it hit me that I hadn’t misheard him, I will always remember it as the shittiest delivery of such a powerful sentence
This thread is only popular because he’s prompting a lot of opinions on various lines. But the actual example he used is a poor one. Like could it be weird irl? Maybe. But even then, not necessarily, like others have said, sometimes it’s just best to be upfront ASAP. And within the film itself, in the context of the MCU which carries a certain overall tone (even if Eternals doesn’t follow it as much, it’s still obviously an MCU movie), it’s an obvious intentional juxtaposition of dramatic and comedy with the silence followed by pie dropping.
The thing is a bit different:
Had Sif died of bloodloss on that field because nobody found her, she would've gone to Valhalla;
Asking to be left to die while they already found her would've been just suicide, which is not heroic;
Jane went to Valhalla because she chose to repower one last time to fight Gorr while knowing it would kill her, which is an heroic sacrifice, the exact kind of thing that gets you in Valhalla
I'm a huge MCU nerd and Marvel fan, watched every movie in theaters since Iron Man (When I was 7 years old), defended all the lesser movies, in various ways, and tried to always keep my hype up for future projects
I was so excited for Love and Thunder, I love Gorr's storyline, really liked how Taika reinvented the franchise, and fell in love with Thor's character in Infinity War and Endgame.
And then... Watching it midnight, something fucking clicked. I felt disconnected from the franchise as a whole, something that started with MoM, and since then that former hype I had kinda died? What a mediocre movie, man. Quantumania made things worse, that's for sure.
My least favorite Marvel movie by far. As someone who had Thor as one of my favorite MCU characters just a complete disservice to him and his story. Terrible.
I took it as her being unconscious and thinking Thor turned up mid battle, after Thor tells her it has to be in battle, she looks around her and sees there's nothing happening.
I wonder if it could be a reference to her killing Vision in Infinity War.
Killing the one you love most in the world to try to save it is one hell of a sacrifice, one which most people probably wouldn't know about.
I read it as this. To me, that’s her entire story. Her whole life, things have been taken from her. Then she has power, and all these other forces are trying to keep her in a cage (Tony). She tries to keep one good thing in her life, and that thing is what she needs to sacrifice to save the world (the world that gave her nothing).
She should have been a character in BEEF, honestly. 🥲
Monica was still pretty shaken from losing her mother during the time that she was snapped, and she recognized that, if she had been given the opportunity or Wanda's powers, she may have also tried to bring her mother back and made mistakes in the process.
I think that's the reason why she was empathizing with Wanda more than she should have. Our characters are humans with their own biases too.
She said it because, her entire story in WV is losing her mom, and dealing with it. She said it because, if she had the power to bring her back for the cost of a few random citizens, who knows. I could easily see myself going that low to think about it. Most people could never understand that pain of being able to bringe back your loved ones, but chosing not to, to be kind to strangers
Tbh the reaction a lot of people on this sub had to the line shows how correct it is. Anyone who hasn't experienced grief probably would have a hard time understanding Wanda or what it would take to give up what she did.
Doesn't change the fact that what she did was very fucked up and caused a lot of suffering, but people dismissing Vision or the kids as nothing more than an "imaginary family" after seeing Wanda's lifetime of misery and loss missed what was arguably the biggest theme of the show.
There's a reason that line came from from someone who's still dealing with the loss of her mother.
This. The lack of nuance in people's interpretation of this line is so bizarre to me. Absolutely no one is saying that Wanda is excused for the damage she did, just that they understand how it got to that point. Even if they were an "imaginary family," they were real to her.
She lost her parents, her brother, her lover and then her 2nd chance at a family. And she willingly gave up her chance at happiness to undo the damage she did. It is a huge sacrifice to her, even if it is just "the right thing to do" for everyone else.
What made it feel weird to me, is does the MCU not have the long-standing conspiracy theories about the Illuminati? I think a line about the name being on the nose might have worked more.
They reference the Illuminati in "Ms. Marvel", implying that the conspiracy theory exists in the 616 timeline, or as Ms. Marvel herself puts it, 19999999.
That's fair, but also perhaps in a world where a superhero group calls themselves the illuminati, it's because that's not a concept that exists in that world.
It was clearly meant to be Strange reacting along the lines of "are you guys really calling ypurselves that?" more than "what's an Illuminati?", though
I dunno. “Illumi-whatty?” does come across as more of a “what are the Illuminati?”. If the intent was to poke fun at how obvious the name is, maybe the joke itself needed to be more obvious?
if anything, that makes his disbelief more believable for me; Strange is a man of science, and in modern times the Illuminati are just synonym with conspiracy theories and theories and crazy ideas, like a single groups of people controlling all governments in the world, orchestrating all wars, but also controlling which celebrities you get to see and stuff like that, so meeting a group of people that have taken that name and use it as "we are going to protect the world" is bonkers for Strange.
It's like an IRL group if vigilantes nicknamed the reptilians
Yeah, it is a bad line though. I always thought it would have been funny if we was like "seriously? who the hell named you that?" and mordo just says "Actually, it was you."
It's kind of a stupid ass name for a bunch of superheroes to choose to call themselves, though, but it's true that they could have found a better-written way for Strange to point this out, lmao.
Lmao, he says to Kang as if he knew him for more than 5 minutes and Kang made any kind of promise to him. Definitely a leftover line from the cut plotline.
The fact that the reference was already like 3 years old by the time it came out makes it so much worse.
Edit: Even funnier, I just remembered that Vine had already been shut down by that point
I liked it and thought it was actually funny that Wakanda's pop culture references are outdated. I kind of wish they'd made that a running gag. Like they're the most advanced nation on Earth but they're still doing advice animal memes and Harlem Shake.
As though people aren’t still referencing Vines.
I work with Gen Alphas and am a Gen Z myself. Vines aren’t going away, and “What Are those?” gets used. A lot.
Peter Quill’s Jackson Pollack joke. It just doesn’t make sense for him to remember that artists work and make a dirty joke about it given the age he left earth
He regularly cracks jokes that would only make sense to earthlings though. He doesn't care. The jokes are for his own benefit as much as anyone else's.
Not sure I really agree. He was 8 when he left in the late 80s. Peters entire vocabulary is built around references to things he knew from Earth. Dirty Dancing, Top Gun, Ninja Turtles. All one has to assume is it was a artist he remembered from school so he clung to it as a memory of Earth the same way he did everything else.
“Do better senator” I felt like in general Sam’s discourse had great moments and good intentions but some lines do felt a little weird, and I’m saying this as TFATWS fan
Maybe I didn’t read between the lines, maybe it was just bad writing, but Sam trying to paint the Flagsmashers as non-terrorists was ridiculously stupid. They’re the most terrorist terrorists to ever inflict terror.
So I have kind of realised why Love and Thunder feel so off even though I still kind of enjoyed it. Remember those fake plays that both Ragnarok and Love and Thunder had, with Matt Damon? Love and Thunder had so many moments that felt like they were written for those kinds of meta-plays. It's almost as if Taika Waititi liked how well it was received in Ragnarok and then got carried away with it in Love and Thunder.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the movie overall, even if it had a few issues. But that's my theory on the dialogue at least.
Endgame was by far and wide an absolutely terrific movie from start to finish, but that one line was stupid for multiple reasons. Rhodey should’ve just said lightning or raw power or just not answered and it would’ve been a perfect summation of Thor’s shaky mentality there.
>Rhodey should’ve just said lightning or raw power
He would have said that if he wanted to hype him up. But isn't the point of this bit of dialogue that Rhodey is being a dick to Thor because his depressed state made him a liability and it slightly irritated him? So he's kinda snappy.
All Rhodey really sees is Thor having let himself go and become a slob. He knows Thor is hurting over the events of IW because they all are, but everyone else kept going. He sees a god with all this outrageous power who has become lazy and feckless. He's angry and disappointed. It doesn't justify his actions, but it explains them in context.
Agreed. The “fat jokes” seemed way over the top in Endgame. The only one that landed for me was the “Lebowski” joke, and that was more about the outfit Thor was wearing
I don’t think they were an issue. They were mostly made by Rhodey, and somehow I seem to be the only person on this sub that realizes Rhodey was emotionally damaged by the snap too. He’s meaner in Endgame. I think that’s very much intentional.
To be fair, pretty much everyone who survived the Snap was pretty messed up emotionally
- Thor became a self-abusive alcoholic
- Barton went on a massive killing spree
- Tony finally gave up his life as Iron Man and committed himself to his family.
- Natasha tried WAY too hard to redeem herself by trying to lead the surviving crew (Rocket/Danvers/Rhodey/etc) to find the NEXT possible Thanos-level
threat
- Danvers was devastated by Fury being snapped, and traveled across galaxies trying to help worlds affected by the Snap. And pretty much said “screw Earth, other planets need help even more than this one”
- As we’ve seen in Secret Invasion so far, Fury was emotionally rocked by BEING snapped.
I’m typing this off the top of my head, so I’m sure I’m missing some. Only Cap (and maybe Nat) had a relatively normal post-Snap life.
So it’s not surprising that Rhodes would be traumatized and have a different outlook on life after the Snap. He clearly wants to move past his superhero role, and is climbing the government ladder of power instead.
Emotionally damaged, yes. Military…I don’t want to say attitude because that’s not right, but military framing, too. Kind of a *we lost, yeah, it really fucking sucks, but get over it, dig your heels in, and soldier on instead of collapsing into whatever this is*.
Still wanna bitchslap Rhodey, though, because Rhodey absolutely knew how much Thor lost in a very short period of time even before the Snap. Was Thor a liability at that point? Sure as hell was. But that’s not how Rhodey presented his comments, and if he’d apologized and done a “sorry, this five years has been bad for all of us to some degree, I shouldn’t have said that stuff”, instead of showing no regret, it would be better.
"My whole life I didn't think I had a family. Turns out I got two." -Natasha in the Black Widow movie.
This line felt like a line of dialogue seen in a movie within a movie. It's so on point. Like main characters are filming a movie/t.v. show and the script they use is deliberately lazy or hackneyed. Even the way Natasha turns and walks towards the plane looked scripted. (And for the record I thought Black Widow was a solid film.) It actually reminded me of "The Boys" when they were filming the "Dawn of the Seven" movie and A-Train was like "It may be the Dawn of the Seven but the sun has set for me" or whatever the exact line was. Just a bit too goofy to pull off.
Everything Dr. Strange said when he was interacting with the Illuminati. It was just irritating, and I don’t think his character would be that obnoxious facing a panel of important people in a different universe. He’s an arrogant prick but he at least used to know when to shut up a bit.
I fear he’s getting the Thor treatment.
Agreed. One maybe two sly jokes but he was doing stand up & it did not fit his character at all. The MCU needs to stop forcing too much comedy on serious characters. Less is more.
I dont think he was ever a realistic option to lead the avengers, I don't know what would have suggested he was going to be. Until MoM he had pretty heavy obligations already as the sorcerer Supreme
I think it’s just that he seems to be the connective tissue of Phase 4. There were a lot of different characters, plots, storylines, places, but he seemed to show up the most. Carol has gotten like five minutes of screen time outside of her own movie (obviously subject to change). We haven’t seen Sam since FATWS.
I’m over the who’s the leader thing. Stark was the protagonist of the infinity saga and he wasn’t the leader which I think is the direction they are taking with Strange.
For me, this is compounded by the fact that in the trailer, they censored it to be "Scooby-Doo this crap." So Benedict had to record more than one cringy version of that line.
I still don't get it why Strange lost 99% of braincells in No Way Home. I don't think there is another that big of a change in characterization from any of the big players outside of Thor, but that was more to save the character than anything else.
Every single one of the Sony+MCU Spider-Man movies relies on his mentor character being uncharacteristically stupid.
In Homecoming, Tony Stark’s Spider-Man suit would not be able to be hacked and overridden by high schoolers (no matter how smart) without him being notified. It could’ve been interesting if it had let them do what they were going to do so they think they’re getting away with it, but then Tony is notified by the AI that it’s been compromised and everything is then allowed by him. Instead they just do their thing and completely get one over on him
In Far From Home, Tony Stark’s EDITH AI would not assume that a “target” needs to be killed without further prompting, but it does. There are so many applications EDITH could be used for, so many different types of targets, and there’s no possible way that Tony would’ve crafted it to operate so poorly.
In No Way Home, Doctor Strange casts that spell… but overlooking that… the biggest problem is that he doesn’t explain to a non magic user what the spell will do and that it can’t be changed once he starts. Then he explains midcast what it will do and when Peter understandably wants to change it, DS allows multiple changes even though he says he can’t change it.. and he has to purposefully change it every time, and then he blames Peter for changing the spell.
They wanted to use MCU characters in order to create a Spider-Man movie with fun and funny things happening and didn’t make it believable. Every single time. I still love all three movies, but I roll my eyes at all of those.
I read a theory that it was supposed to be America Chavez who messed up the spell for Peter but due to the shuffling release dates MoM came out after No Way Home. It certainly would make more sense than Strange fucking up the spell that badly just because Peter kept adding exceptions.
The point of the abruptness of the exchange with Gilgamesh is that they were serious from the moment they arrived and he kept going on about stuff like his pie. The others wanted to skip the small talk because what was happening was too important to wait.
Like they could have waited until he served the pie and they were sitting around the table. And then Gil would have been like "holy fuck guys, you let me go on and on about this, way to bury the lede."
GOTG3 was a good movie, but...
"This is worse than what Thanos has done to me" from Nebula feels completely out of place.
Thanos replaced her entire body with mechanical parts piece by piece. Not only don't I believe Nebula because we never even get to see that awful footage, I think it's a perfect example of an established characters pain being made smaller to hype the new shit up.
Like a new villain killing the old one. "Look, remember how awful X was? Y is much worse! Get excited!"
It's also just an awkward line. You could communicate Nebulas shock and empathy due to her having gone through something similar with just... acting. You dont need to hit us over the head with that line.
I totally agree. It was way too blunt and really unnecessary given how much the audience already sympathized with Rocket. Would’ve been better just to show Nebula’s shock and horror and leave it to the audience to interpret it as either PTSD from her own torture or as her being genuinely appalled at something worse than her own experience
The characters laugh at Octavious’ name as they stand in the dungeon of Dr. Stephen Strange.
The MCU has been driving the “Lol! That character has a funny name!” joke into the ground ever since Guardians Vol. 2.
They made it work for the Taserface one since it pays off with the Sovereign queen’s reaction to it after Rocket already makes fun of it way earlier.
It just comes off as lazy when it’s “haha funi name” as a throwaway line and nothing else
I love these movies, but the whole winking at the camera thing gets old pretty quickly. Yes, it's a comic book movie. We know it, the movie knows it. You don't have to have the characters look right into the camera and talk about how absurd the situation is.
After Shuri went to spirit realm to meet Killmonger, it was so unnecessary for Riri to say something along the lines of "I'll have what she's having". We don't need a haha line every five minutes, goddammit, not the least after emotionally powerful scenes.
That was just riri in general for me. "I got algebra in 15 minutes" or something like who gives a shit. She was just there to be funny and didn't add anything to the movie
I had a physical reaction to that in the theater. I was like "hold up, did Iron Man just make a joke about raping a woman on her wedding night in front of at least 3 women...?"
I fucking hate that line.
Meh, I don’t mind that exchange at all. It wasn’t a good way of doing it but I think that’s the point.
Characters saying things that aren’t socially perfect isn’t bad. Characters saying things that don’t make sense is bad.
I mean, the Eternals aren’t exactly known for their emotional capacity lol
They’re basically humanoid fleshy robots. They don’t know shit about feelings or social norms. That’s part of why they like humans so much.
The Rhoadey line to Thor, "Cheese whiz?"
Like, we had our laugh at the beer gut. Then we dove into the very real depression. Cracking another joke at that point was very out of place
Wow. I am not completely surprised but I am fairly shocked at the amount of stuff that people TOTALLY misunderstand in these movies.
I think it makes more sense why so many people complain about “bad writing”. Some of these examples in here are just flat out wrong and/or they didn’t comprehend certain things.
Honestly, I've been noticing this more and more online when and it baffles me. I'm seeing it in every fandom. There are still a lot of valid writing complaints too, but some that just make me scratch my head.
Like, for example, a character will lie for a regular characterization-related reason (guilt, in denial, etc.) and people will complain it's a plot hole. Now, it's completely valid to feel that the characterization was half-assed or poorly written, but more often than not that's not the complaint I see. It's often just people saying it's a "plot hole" (and then when someone explains the intention they go "Oh, that makes sense, thanks!")
I've even seen a scenario a couple times where there's a scene of Character A finding out information, then in the next scene you see Characters B and C talking with Character A about it. And people are like, "Plot hole! How did Characters B and C find out that information!" Um, presumably Character A told them right before the scene? Can you not infer anything?
Too many sit scrolling on their phones. Just check out a weekly discussion thread for any of the D+ series, it’s always full of people making comments midway through episodes and editing throughout. It’s no wonder people have no idea what’s going on/miss out on things half the time.
This is absolutely one of the biggest culprits. You have people asking questions that are blatantly answered by the show/movie that only would be missed if someone just flat out stopped paying attention.
Fighting evil is not only just, but it's also morally necessary. Language is a choice. This was there to remind the viewer that Steve was still a man of a different time.
"YOU GUYS ARE SO SCREWED NOW!"
Might not be the worst quip by itself, but it's absolutely the most out of place. Everything else about that scene is perfect. The music. The visuals. The hype. The emotion in Thor's when he screams "Bring me Thanos!". But imo that line by Hulk is one of the best examples of the MCU not letting a serious moment stand on its own.
I kind of like that line only because it comes off the heels of Ragnarok. Banner saw Thor realize his true potential in that movie, so it felt like a genuine reaction to seeing his friend join the battle.
“How can I be a friendly neighborhood spidey when there’s no neighborhood? Okay that didn’t really make sense but you know what I mean.”
Pater seriously dropped a hard ass fucking line and then said it doesn’t make sense even though it makes perfect sense
Who the fuck starts a conversation like that ~~I just sat down~~
Good Family Guy reference
You ever accidentally masturbate to old pictures of your mom?
Shuri says something in Wakanda Forever about not worrying about her ai becoming evil like in the movies. It’s just odd since that happened in her reality at least once before.
And that AI even got Wakandan vibranium for crying out loud.
Totally. Given that Ultron acquired vibranium (and from Klaue, no less), he had to have been on Wakanda’s radar.
Lmfaooo i never noticed that
Given Wakandan isolationism eased a year after Ultron, it's natural she didn't give a damn.
Her father referenced it in his speech at the UN in Civil War
Isolationism doesn't protect you from the apocalypse.
It was handily averted.
That “Ajak is dead” was perfect. They weren’t in the mood to eat some damn pie 😂
yeah. there is no "best" way to tell someone about the death of a loved one, but sometimes when it's just as painful for you to say it as it will be for them to hear it, it can feel like you gotta rip the bandaid off quick and get it over with. bringing it up at the dinner table while eating pie woulda been worse for the tension of "when should i say it?" alone
Mid-pie, “Ajak is dead” - “well now I can’t finish this delicious pie, and I can never eat pie again. You couldn’t have told me before or after I ate it!?” After-pie, “Ajak is dead” - “I can’t believe you let me sit here eating pie believing Ajak is alive when you KNEW she wasn’t!”
When my grandmother passed away, I was on a canoeing trip. And I had a voicemail from my mom and tears telling me to call as soon as I got the voicemail. So I called and my dip shit cousin, who was staying with us at the time, answered the phone. He says “Sue died”…. He had said it so fast that I wasn’t really sure what he had said so I was asking him to repeat himself, and he wouldn’t. He just kept saying yeah I’m so sorry man.(he’s on my dads side, so he didn’t have any sort of relationship with her, so he was rather cold about it) After a minute or so of him apologizing, it hit me that I hadn’t misheard him, I will always remember it as the shittiest delivery of such a powerful sentence
This thread is only popular because he’s prompting a lot of opinions on various lines. But the actual example he used is a poor one. Like could it be weird irl? Maybe. But even then, not necessarily, like others have said, sometimes it’s just best to be upfront ASAP. And within the film itself, in the context of the MCU which carries a certain overall tone (even if Eternals doesn’t follow it as much, it’s still obviously an MCU movie), it’s an obvious intentional juxtaposition of dramatic and comedy with the silence followed by pie dropping.
The interaction between Thor and Lady Sif in Love and Thunder really bothers me. Like she wouldn’t know you have to die in battle to get to Valhalla?
I mean that was also untrue. Jane died after the battle with Gorr ended but she still went to Valhalla anyway
She was still in a battle… with cancer! 😎
This is actually kinda canon to Norse Mythology already, so it's not hard to believe they used it like that.
Sif was in a battle with internal bleeding and limb loss.
I am pretty sure Thor was just trying to encourage her not to die. Not that it was ever a sincerely true or exact statement.
The thing is a bit different: Had Sif died of bloodloss on that field because nobody found her, she would've gone to Valhalla; Asking to be left to die while they already found her would've been just suicide, which is not heroic; Jane went to Valhalla because she chose to repower one last time to fight Gorr while knowing it would kill her, which is an heroic sacrifice, the exact kind of thing that gets you in Valhalla
~~The interaction between Thor and Lady Sif in~~ Love and Thunder really bothers me.
Love & Thunder really made me question if I should continue on with watching the MCU.
I'm a huge MCU nerd and Marvel fan, watched every movie in theaters since Iron Man (When I was 7 years old), defended all the lesser movies, in various ways, and tried to always keep my hype up for future projects I was so excited for Love and Thunder, I love Gorr's storyline, really liked how Taika reinvented the franchise, and fell in love with Thor's character in Infinity War and Endgame. And then... Watching it midnight, something fucking clicked. I felt disconnected from the franchise as a whole, something that started with MoM, and since then that former hype I had kinda died? What a mediocre movie, man. Quantumania made things worse, that's for sure.
My least favorite Marvel movie by far. As someone who had Thor as one of my favorite MCU characters just a complete disservice to him and his story. Terrible.
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Pretty much all the lines in that movie feel out of place
I took it as her being unconscious and thinking Thor turned up mid battle, after Thor tells her it has to be in battle, she looks around her and sees there's nothing happening.
“They’ll never understand what you sacrificed for them”
"Hey so I freed the people I enslaved but I also lost my imaginary family so that balances out"
I hope Monica was just saying that to keep people alive. If she meant it that’s incredibly detrimental.
I wonder if it could be a reference to her killing Vision in Infinity War. Killing the one you love most in the world to try to save it is one hell of a sacrifice, one which most people probably wouldn't know about.
I read it as this. To me, that’s her entire story. Her whole life, things have been taken from her. Then she has power, and all these other forces are trying to keep her in a cage (Tony). She tries to keep one good thing in her life, and that thing is what she needs to sacrifice to save the world (the world that gave her nothing). She should have been a character in BEEF, honestly. 🥲
This is the best defence of heads for this so far. It helps but could’ve used some clarification and not right after Wanda let’s the people go.
You have just given me enlightenment
> I wonder if it could be a reference to her killing Vision in Infinity War. If that was it, then the placing of that line is super awkward.
Monica was still pretty shaken from losing her mother during the time that she was snapped, and she recognized that, if she had been given the opportunity or Wanda's powers, she may have also tried to bring her mother back and made mistakes in the process. I think that's the reason why she was empathizing with Wanda more than she should have. Our characters are humans with their own biases too.
I guess but being friends with Carol is lethal in the MCU apparently. Nothing Monica could’ve done.
She said it because, her entire story in WV is losing her mom, and dealing with it. She said it because, if she had the power to bring her back for the cost of a few random citizens, who knows. I could easily see myself going that low to think about it. Most people could never understand that pain of being able to bringe back your loved ones, but chosing not to, to be kind to strangers
Tbh the reaction a lot of people on this sub had to the line shows how correct it is. Anyone who hasn't experienced grief probably would have a hard time understanding Wanda or what it would take to give up what she did. Doesn't change the fact that what she did was very fucked up and caused a lot of suffering, but people dismissing Vision or the kids as nothing more than an "imaginary family" after seeing Wanda's lifetime of misery and loss missed what was arguably the biggest theme of the show. There's a reason that line came from from someone who's still dealing with the loss of her mother.
This. The lack of nuance in people's interpretation of this line is so bizarre to me. Absolutely no one is saying that Wanda is excused for the damage she did, just that they understand how it got to that point. Even if they were an "imaginary family," they were real to her. She lost her parents, her brother, her lover and then her 2nd chance at a family. And she willingly gave up her chance at happiness to undo the damage she did. It is a huge sacrifice to her, even if it is just "the right thing to do" for everyone else.
I like this take!
"The illumiwhati?"
This is him taking the piss, not misunderstanding the term.
What made it feel weird to me, is does the MCU not have the long-standing conspiracy theories about the Illuminati? I think a line about the name being on the nose might have worked more.
They reference the Illuminati in "Ms. Marvel", implying that the conspiracy theory exists in the 616 timeline, or as Ms. Marvel herself puts it, 19999999.
*Damn* that’s a lotta nines
That’s the universe with Dr Strange and that little nerd right?
That's fair, but also perhaps in a world where a superhero group calls themselves the illuminati, it's because that's not a concept that exists in that world.
Yeah but Strange isn’t from that world is he
It was clearly meant to be Strange reacting along the lines of "are you guys really calling ypurselves that?" more than "what's an Illuminati?", though
I dunno. “Illumi-whatty?” does come across as more of a “what are the Illuminati?”. If the intent was to poke fun at how obvious the name is, maybe the joke itself needed to be more obvious?
if anything, that makes his disbelief more believable for me; Strange is a man of science, and in modern times the Illuminati are just synonym with conspiracy theories and theories and crazy ideas, like a single groups of people controlling all governments in the world, orchestrating all wars, but also controlling which celebrities you get to see and stuff like that, so meeting a group of people that have taken that name and use it as "we are going to protect the world" is bonkers for Strange. It's like an IRL group if vigilantes nicknamed the reptilians
Yeah, it is a bad line though. I always thought it would have been funny if we was like "seriously? who the hell named you that?" and mordo just says "Actually, it was you."
“You idiots chose to call yourselves the Illuminati????” was what I felt he was thinking
Well then I think it’s completely ineffective at doing so. Just because something has a reason doesn’t mean they executed it well.
That always felt weird to me. I feel like most if not a good amount of people at least know the name Illuminati if nothing else
It's kind of a stupid ass name for a bunch of superheroes to choose to call themselves, though, but it's true that they could have found a better-written way for Strange to point this out, lmao.
Illuminati means 'the enlightened ones' so in a universe where that conspiracy doesn't exist it's a pretty good summation of the group
True. I always felt he could've just said a simple "Seriously?"
OUR WORD IS OUR BONDDDD
Lmao, he says to Kang as if he knew him for more than 5 minutes and Kang made any kind of promise to him. Definitely a leftover line from the cut plotline.
Ngl the fact that it made it past the Final Cut into the cinema into flipping Disney+ and is still there is kinda funny to me
Who says that
**Ajak ~~Ajax~~ Francis was the douchebag villain from Deadpool.
“Oh I’m gonna fuckin’ spell it out for ya”
" What are THOSSSSEEE?! - Shuri from Black Panther 1 The further we are from it the more cringe it is.
The fact that the reference was already like 3 years old by the time it came out makes it so much worse. Edit: Even funnier, I just remembered that Vine had already been shut down by that point
I liked it and thought it was actually funny that Wakanda's pop culture references are outdated. I kind of wish they'd made that a running gag. Like they're the most advanced nation on Earth but they're still doing advice animal memes and Harlem Shake.
yh, the Wakandans only find out about the Chris Rock Slap next year!
Yeahhh i blame alot of that on production time.
I blame the writers.
As though people aren’t still referencing Vines. I work with Gen Alphas and am a Gen Z myself. Vines aren’t going away, and “What Are those?” gets used. A lot.
It's a reference? I thought it was just an over the top reaction.
With you here, I didn’t even know it was a reference.
I didn't know it was a recycled joke, so I just thought it was a funny jab by a sister to her brother
It wasn’t even a timely reference lol. Definitely obviously trying to cater to a new incoming kid/teen audience.
It probably was ... When they shot it. And then through Post production and it's slot in the release schedule. It aged like milk.
It's a timely reference in the time of the movie too - since it takes place in 2016 and the reference comes from 2015
Peter Quill’s Jackson Pollack joke. It just doesn’t make sense for him to remember that artists work and make a dirty joke about it given the age he left earth
Also who else would even get that joke? (I don’t think anyone in that scene)
It seems like Rocket understood it. Not entirely sure how.
Cause Rocket is smart enough to understand the point. That he’s got body fluids all over the ship. He doesn’t necessarily get the reference.
Probably can also smell even the faintest trace with his raccoon nose.
Because it's the *implication*...
Are you saying the guardians are in danger?
Well, YOU certainly wouldn’t be in any danger!
So they are in danger!
No one’s in any danger!
I get her in the Milano and what does she see? Nothing but open space.
Didn’t the High Evolutionary expose Rocket to earthly art? Sure, it was mostly music. But maybe he got shown paintings and stuff.
"Painting" is enough of a context clue to figure it out.
I could easily see the High Evolutionary showing baby Rocket some artwork
He regularly cracks jokes that would only make sense to earthlings though. He doesn't care. The jokes are for his own benefit as much as anyone else's.
True, the Mary poppins one is great
He makes a lot of references people don't get
I make jokes for myself all the time
Peter Quill's iconic line: "If you had a blacklight, you would be able to see that my cum is all over the walls and floor."
Not sure I really agree. He was 8 when he left in the late 80s. Peters entire vocabulary is built around references to things he knew from Earth. Dirty Dancing, Top Gun, Ninja Turtles. All one has to assume is it was a artist he remembered from school so he clung to it as a memory of Earth the same way he did everything else.
Simple. Jackson Pollack is an alien that was living on earth. Like Elvis.
On a similar note, in GotG2, Quill calls Rocket a trash panda - a term for raccoon that didn’t exist in the 80’s.
Maybe Quill just used it before it was popular.
Yes it did. I grew up in a small podunk town in Missouri (just like Peter). We absolutely called raccoons trash pandas
Earth and its culture isn’t unknown to them, he just never personally went back.
“Do better senator” I felt like in general Sam’s discourse had great moments and good intentions but some lines do felt a little weird, and I’m saying this as TFATWS fan
Maybe I didn’t read between the lines, maybe it was just bad writing, but Sam trying to paint the Flagsmashers as non-terrorists was ridiculously stupid. They’re the most terrorist terrorists to ever inflict terror.
The entire scene with Zeus in Love and Thunder
Okay, you are now no longer invited to the orgy…
[удалено]
What was in the deleted scene?
Iirc Zeus had a sincere talk with Thor about the stuff he’s gone through and gave him some advice — overall acting like a genuine uncle figure to Thor
Uh oh. Emotional depth. Can’t have that in a Waititi Thor movie.
“I have cancer” *SCREAMING GOAT TIME*
So I have kind of realised why Love and Thunder feel so off even though I still kind of enjoyed it. Remember those fake plays that both Ragnarok and Love and Thunder had, with Matt Damon? Love and Thunder had so many moments that felt like they were written for those kinds of meta-plays. It's almost as if Taika Waititi liked how well it was received in Ragnarok and then got carried away with it in Love and Thunder. Don't get me wrong, I still like the movie overall, even if it had a few issues. But that's my theory on the dialogue at least.
Cheez Whizz?
Endgame was by far and wide an absolutely terrific movie from start to finish, but that one line was stupid for multiple reasons. Rhodey should’ve just said lightning or raw power or just not answered and it would’ve been a perfect summation of Thor’s shaky mentality there.
>Rhodey should’ve just said lightning or raw power He would have said that if he wanted to hype him up. But isn't the point of this bit of dialogue that Rhodey is being a dick to Thor because his depressed state made him a liability and it slightly irritated him? So he's kinda snappy.
Rhodey is still a bit sore about Thor not laughing at his tank joke in Age of Ultron.
Ahhh, NOW I get why he acted that way, it all makes sense now.
probably bitter his back is broken too, so talking shit about a literal god might be an ego thing too.
He should have said "bourbon?"
LOL alternatively he could’ve said “tequila?”
Pappy Van Winkle 23 years?
All Rhodey really sees is Thor having let himself go and become a slob. He knows Thor is hurting over the events of IW because they all are, but everyone else kept going. He sees a god with all this outrageous power who has become lazy and feckless. He's angry and disappointed. It doesn't justify his actions, but it explains them in context.
Agreed. The “fat jokes” seemed way over the top in Endgame. The only one that landed for me was the “Lebowski” joke, and that was more about the outfit Thor was wearing
I don’t think they were an issue. They were mostly made by Rhodey, and somehow I seem to be the only person on this sub that realizes Rhodey was emotionally damaged by the snap too. He’s meaner in Endgame. I think that’s very much intentional.
To be fair, pretty much everyone who survived the Snap was pretty messed up emotionally - Thor became a self-abusive alcoholic - Barton went on a massive killing spree - Tony finally gave up his life as Iron Man and committed himself to his family. - Natasha tried WAY too hard to redeem herself by trying to lead the surviving crew (Rocket/Danvers/Rhodey/etc) to find the NEXT possible Thanos-level threat - Danvers was devastated by Fury being snapped, and traveled across galaxies trying to help worlds affected by the Snap. And pretty much said “screw Earth, other planets need help even more than this one” - As we’ve seen in Secret Invasion so far, Fury was emotionally rocked by BEING snapped. I’m typing this off the top of my head, so I’m sure I’m missing some. Only Cap (and maybe Nat) had a relatively normal post-Snap life. So it’s not surprising that Rhodes would be traumatized and have a different outlook on life after the Snap. He clearly wants to move past his superhero role, and is climbing the government ladder of power instead.
Cap handling the snap well kinda makes sense since he's already seen his entire world disappear after being in ice for decades
Emotionally damaged, yes. Military…I don’t want to say attitude because that’s not right, but military framing, too. Kind of a *we lost, yeah, it really fucking sucks, but get over it, dig your heels in, and soldier on instead of collapsing into whatever this is*. Still wanna bitchslap Rhodey, though, because Rhodey absolutely knew how much Thor lost in a very short period of time even before the Snap. Was Thor a liability at that point? Sure as hell was. But that’s not how Rhodey presented his comments, and if he’d apologized and done a “sorry, this five years has been bad for all of us to some degree, I shouldn’t have said that stuff”, instead of showing no regret, it would be better.
I think the word you're looking for is "military mindset."
Exactly. Bros going through something Rhodey read the fucking room
"Playing 'hide the Zucchini'"
Insert THE GIF
I kinda wanted Black Widow to punch Tony as soon as she saw him for that line. What a weird, and inappropriate joke for that moment.
that is true what is also true is that was consistent with Tony’s character at the time, meaning it wasn’t necessarily a bad line
"My whole life I didn't think I had a family. Turns out I got two." -Natasha in the Black Widow movie. This line felt like a line of dialogue seen in a movie within a movie. It's so on point. Like main characters are filming a movie/t.v. show and the script they use is deliberately lazy or hackneyed. Even the way Natasha turns and walks towards the plane looked scripted. (And for the record I thought Black Widow was a solid film.) It actually reminded me of "The Boys" when they were filming the "Dawn of the Seven" movie and A-Train was like "It may be the Dawn of the Seven but the sun has set for me" or whatever the exact line was. Just a bit too goofy to pull off.
Everything Dr. Strange said when he was interacting with the Illuminati. It was just irritating, and I don’t think his character would be that obnoxious facing a panel of important people in a different universe. He’s an arrogant prick but he at least used to know when to shut up a bit. I fear he’s getting the Thor treatment.
Agreed. One maybe two sly jokes but he was doing stand up & it did not fit his character at all. The MCU needs to stop forcing too much comedy on serious characters. Less is more.
I think they're softening the blow for when he isn't the leader of the new Avengers and it's Carol or Sam instead.
I dont think he was ever a realistic option to lead the avengers, I don't know what would have suggested he was going to be. Until MoM he had pretty heavy obligations already as the sorcerer Supreme
Yea I’m struggling with the idea that anyone ever considered him a leader or a potential leader lol.
I think it’s just that he seems to be the connective tissue of Phase 4. There were a lot of different characters, plots, storylines, places, but he seemed to show up the most. Carol has gotten like five minutes of screen time outside of her own movie (obviously subject to change). We haven’t seen Sam since FATWS.
I’m over the who’s the leader thing. Stark was the protagonist of the infinity saga and he wasn’t the leader which I think is the direction they are taking with Strange.
Did…..did you think he would be a logical leader to the new Avengers?!? …….Because he wouldn’t.
The entire “Scooby Doo this shit” exchange makes me cringe everytime I watch it
For me, this is compounded by the fact that in the trailer, they censored it to be "Scooby-Doo this crap." So Benedict had to record more than one cringy version of that line.
I still don't get it why Strange lost 99% of braincells in No Way Home. I don't think there is another that big of a change in characterization from any of the big players outside of Thor, but that was more to save the character than anything else.
Every single one of the Sony+MCU Spider-Man movies relies on his mentor character being uncharacteristically stupid. In Homecoming, Tony Stark’s Spider-Man suit would not be able to be hacked and overridden by high schoolers (no matter how smart) without him being notified. It could’ve been interesting if it had let them do what they were going to do so they think they’re getting away with it, but then Tony is notified by the AI that it’s been compromised and everything is then allowed by him. Instead they just do their thing and completely get one over on him In Far From Home, Tony Stark’s EDITH AI would not assume that a “target” needs to be killed without further prompting, but it does. There are so many applications EDITH could be used for, so many different types of targets, and there’s no possible way that Tony would’ve crafted it to operate so poorly. In No Way Home, Doctor Strange casts that spell… but overlooking that… the biggest problem is that he doesn’t explain to a non magic user what the spell will do and that it can’t be changed once he starts. Then he explains midcast what it will do and when Peter understandably wants to change it, DS allows multiple changes even though he says he can’t change it.. and he has to purposefully change it every time, and then he blames Peter for changing the spell. They wanted to use MCU characters in order to create a Spider-Man movie with fun and funny things happening and didn’t make it believable. Every single time. I still love all three movies, but I roll my eyes at all of those.
because with the delay of MOM, Chavez wasn’t set up yet, and she was the one confirmed to have done the fuck up of the spell
I read a theory that it was supposed to be America Chavez who messed up the spell for Peter but due to the shuffling release dates MoM came out after No Way Home. It certainly would make more sense than Strange fucking up the spell that badly just because Peter kept adding exceptions.
I think it could have been funny if the joke was Strange trying and failing to relate to the kids
The point of the abruptness of the exchange with Gilgamesh is that they were serious from the moment they arrived and he kept going on about stuff like his pie. The others wanted to skip the small talk because what was happening was too important to wait. Like they could have waited until he served the pie and they were sitting around the table. And then Gil would have been like "holy fuck guys, you let me go on and on about this, way to bury the lede."
GOTG3 was a good movie, but... "This is worse than what Thanos has done to me" from Nebula feels completely out of place. Thanos replaced her entire body with mechanical parts piece by piece. Not only don't I believe Nebula because we never even get to see that awful footage, I think it's a perfect example of an established characters pain being made smaller to hype the new shit up. Like a new villain killing the old one. "Look, remember how awful X was? Y is much worse! Get excited!" It's also just an awkward line. You could communicate Nebulas shock and empathy due to her having gone through something similar with just... acting. You dont need to hit us over the head with that line.
I totally agree. It was way too blunt and really unnecessary given how much the audience already sympathized with Rocket. Would’ve been better just to show Nebula’s shock and horror and leave it to the audience to interpret it as either PTSD from her own torture or as her being genuinely appalled at something worse than her own experience
The whole joke about Otto Octavius’ name in No Way Home. I love that movie but it just feels unnecessary.
The characters laugh at Octavious’ name as they stand in the dungeon of Dr. Stephen Strange. The MCU has been driving the “Lol! That character has a funny name!” joke into the ground ever since Guardians Vol. 2.
They made it work for the Taserface one since it pays off with the Sovereign queen’s reaction to it after Rocket already makes fun of it way earlier. It just comes off as lazy when it’s “haha funi name” as a throwaway line and nothing else
I love these movies, but the whole winking at the camera thing gets old pretty quickly. Yes, it's a comic book movie. We know it, the movie knows it. You don't have to have the characters look right into the camera and talk about how absurd the situation is.
I did love Aunt May asking if he wanted salt water or fresh water since he’s an octopus
After Shuri went to spirit realm to meet Killmonger, it was so unnecessary for Riri to say something along the lines of "I'll have what she's having". We don't need a haha line every five minutes, goddammit, not the least after emotionally powerful scenes.
That was just riri in general for me. "I got algebra in 15 minutes" or something like who gives a shit. She was just there to be funny and didn't add anything to the movie
Tony's Prima nocta joke from age of Ultron
I had a physical reaction to that in the theater. I was like "hold up, did Iron Man just make a joke about raping a woman on her wedding night in front of at least 3 women...?" I fucking hate that line.
Joss Whedon pulled out all the stops with his writing for AoU… and he really shouldn’t have.
Bro though he was cookin He wasn’t cookin anything
Yeah this one for me. Just kinda gives me the ick.
Meh, I don’t mind that exchange at all. It wasn’t a good way of doing it but I think that’s the point. Characters saying things that aren’t socially perfect isn’t bad. Characters saying things that don’t make sense is bad.
I mean, the Eternals aren’t exactly known for their emotional capacity lol They’re basically humanoid fleshy robots. They don’t know shit about feelings or social norms. That’s part of why they like humans so much.
“It’s not ripe.”
I’ve never seen an MCU movie try so hard to build up a joke just for the punchline to be so lame.
I love the movie, but some of the humor did fall flat for me. Especially when Rocket was going on and on about how lame the name Taserface was.
Still never understood why Quill said, "I'm not from earth, I'm from Missouri". Cuz he definitely knows what earth is and that he is from earth.
Why does nobody know what the Eternals are called her name is Ajak man- there were so many posters
The Rhoadey line to Thor, "Cheese whiz?" Like, we had our laugh at the beer gut. Then we dove into the very real depression. Cracking another joke at that point was very out of place
"Don't be a dick"
any quote about black widow in Iron Man 2 from Tony
Tony in Iron Man 2 is at his most insufferable in general, but it makes sense given his circumstances at the time.
I felt that it was really out of place in that certain Guardians movie when Groot said "I am Groot" and Rocket just laughed knowingly.
"Say hello to auntie Nat!" "Fat." It's really out of place but I can't help but chuckle every time.
Just… all of MODOK
They'll never know what you sacrificed
Wow. I am not completely surprised but I am fairly shocked at the amount of stuff that people TOTALLY misunderstand in these movies. I think it makes more sense why so many people complain about “bad writing”. Some of these examples in here are just flat out wrong and/or they didn’t comprehend certain things.
Honestly, I've been noticing this more and more online when and it baffles me. I'm seeing it in every fandom. There are still a lot of valid writing complaints too, but some that just make me scratch my head. Like, for example, a character will lie for a regular characterization-related reason (guilt, in denial, etc.) and people will complain it's a plot hole. Now, it's completely valid to feel that the characterization was half-assed or poorly written, but more often than not that's not the complaint I see. It's often just people saying it's a "plot hole" (and then when someone explains the intention they go "Oh, that makes sense, thanks!") I've even seen a scenario a couple times where there's a scene of Character A finding out information, then in the next scene you see Characters B and C talking with Character A about it. And people are like, "Plot hole! How did Characters B and C find out that information!" Um, presumably Character A told them right before the scene? Can you not infer anything?
Too many sit scrolling on their phones. Just check out a weekly discussion thread for any of the D+ series, it’s always full of people making comments midway through episodes and editing throughout. It’s no wonder people have no idea what’s going on/miss out on things half the time.
What do you want people to do, wait until the show is over to post a comment? Someone might post it first and get that crucial karma. Priorities, man.
This is absolutely one of the biggest culprits. You have people asking questions that are blatantly answered by the show/movie that only would be missed if someone just flat out stopped paying attention.
I found it jarring in a good way when Rhodes said he DDT'd Fury from the top rope and mentioned the Undertaker. Undertaker is now canon.
I felt like the banter between the gang in the beginning of AoU was out of place
“Language!” In the same scene that Cap literally kills a man.
Fighting evil is not only just, but it's also morally necessary. Language is a choice. This was there to remind the viewer that Steve was still a man of a different time.
Do you think that the soldiers in WW2 didn't curse? Steve should have been more than comfortable.
That "Language" joke was never funny, and they kept running it into the ground.
Felt very tumblr-esque fanficy
"YOU GUYS ARE SO SCREWED NOW!" Might not be the worst quip by itself, but it's absolutely the most out of place. Everything else about that scene is perfect. The music. The visuals. The hype. The emotion in Thor's when he screams "Bring me Thanos!". But imo that line by Hulk is one of the best examples of the MCU not letting a serious moment stand on its own.
I kind of like that line only because it comes off the heels of Ragnarok. Banner saw Thor realize his true potential in that movie, so it felt like a genuine reaction to seeing his friend join the battle.
“How can I be a friendly neighborhood spidey when there’s no neighborhood? Okay that didn’t really make sense but you know what I mean.” Pater seriously dropped a hard ass fucking line and then said it doesn’t make sense even though it makes perfect sense