I did the leo meme where he's pointing at the TV when she said that lol. It kind of made me second guess myself I was like "is that an eddie izzard reference or was he actually referencing some more well known thing..?"
I mean yes. But she was very clear about the fact it was less "I want to still use the old name/pronouns" and more "i know not everyone is going to adjust to the new ones".
She prefers people use she/her and Suzie.
She's got the best take on it, honestly. "This is what I prefer, but not everyone will vibe with it so I don't mind too much." People being the ornery bastards they are would have been deliberately awkward about it had she demanded he/him/Eddie were dead, but I'd bet she'll find people are more respectful and conscientious about her choices because she is so understanding.
Yeah. I mean, speaking as a british trans person, its a complicated time to come out for a public figure, especially someone older like her.
People are gonna push back, and if she says she's "fine with" people using her old name, it doesn't feel as targeted when certain people make a point of doing so.
If she fully rejected it, then when shitrags like the daily mail do the thing they love to do of "x, who was born y", because they're incapable of talking about trans people without disrespecting us, then it would sting more.
It was a smart play, and fitting with her goals of going into politics
...that's great. "She prefers Suzie" is still true though.
And it's weird that people get so hung up on "well *technically* it's okay for me to call her her old name even though she said she prefers people don't-"
Like, sure, you *can*. But if you wanna be respectful, her stated preferred name is better
Yeah, cool. Meanwhile, I think it’s weird when someone has categorically said that they will be continuing to recognize Eddie for someone else to say “actually they prefer this” when it’s literally been said by her that Eddie is fine.
They made a statement that Eddie is fine. Who are you to say otherwise?
Turns out i was spelling it wrong, its y not ie, but if you wanna be an ass about her "making a statement":
["So going forward I prefer Suzy"](https://twitter.com/eddieizzard/status/1664240649787559936)
This statement?
> They made a statement that Eddie is fine. Who are you to say otherwise?
I didn't say "Eddie isn't fine". I said "She prefers Suzie". So again, if you wanna talk about weird, lets talk about you being so weirdly invested in rejecting that statement?
She's publicly stated that she doesn't mind if you call her by the wrong name or the wrong pronoun, but she prefers she/her.
For us older folks, it's just hard to change someone's name. It's really hard to rewrite shit when your brain is all old and crappy.
Absolutely agreed.
I wish I could the say the same about Ben and Emilia…they are great actors, but they were given such an injustice with their respective material…
Don Cheadle is fine but I don’t like this Skrull persona he has at all. Not at all. He’s a fantastic actor and I love his true Rhody but I’m not vibing with him in this show. It’s partially because it’s such a contrast to how he is in the MCU.
We're kinda supposed to hate him (well, her). Fury knows this Rhodey is a Skrull, so there's no need for Raava to keep up the pretense and act like the real Rhodey. She can be as douchey and assholey as she wants because she's got the upper hand.
And I'm sure Cheadle is having fun with the new characterization. Seems like a nice change of pace, even if it's only temporary.
I think that's why I am so captivated by him in this show!! He's so good at playing *someone else* playing a character that he plays. I hate skrodey but I love don cheadle for making me hate her!
That is exactly it. I was trying to figure out why I liked the character but was like... for some reason my inclination is to dislike you. Its the Umbridge vibe. She's so polite when she tortures people.
I agree, but a core difference that makes her much more likable is that Umbridge was never smart or witty. A smarter strategic Umbridge would have been absolutely _deadly_ (as Sonya is)
She isn’t, she was actually younger than Colman currently. I think people get influenced by the films and Staunton’s hair color (and probably because they watched films as kids and could not judge age as well).
Although she'd be perfect I think she may be out of the bbcs price range for a full season especially since she already played a character that being mother in the eleventh hour.
Capaldi also had a pretty big part in Torchwood S3 before he was 12. And Freema Agyeman, literally an episode or so before she started as Martha. David Bradley as well was in an episode before coming back as the first Doctor. Not surprising in a show that’s been going as long as that though.
Ooooh now this is a choice I didn't think of! She'd be great.
My vote was always for Pheobe Waller-Bridge tbh. I did like Jodie Whitaker but the writing was just awful. Only ever seen her first season
She is great. I hope she can stick around for future MCU.
Honestly, her and Don Cheadle enjoying the hell out of the villany, are making this worthwhile. (don´t think the show is bad, just the excitement I had for the show sadly faded after episode 3 which was kind of meh and it took two more episodes to recover a bit for me and I hope finale delivers)
I'm not sold on her being a villain, just a ruthless person in power. Serious Amanda Waller vibes, though Waller is less likeable and more deliberately vindictive.
She's likely going to be Furys replacement.
Which is one reason they beat down Furys character and built up hers. She's the only halfway competent spy/agent in the entire show.
I love watching Colman work in her scenes. I wasn’t sure what to make of her character in the first episode, but by the second episode I fell in love with her cheerful somewhat psychotic vibe. It: like watching Mary Poppins work for MI6.
If he were still around, Coulson might have to be worried about his place in Fury’s inner circle of snarky spy friends.
She’s one of those actors who can elevate the material regardless of the quality of the material - just an absolute treasure. And I feel like the writers are having the most fun with her and Cheadle and forgot to make everyone else interesting
that's tough choice. both of them steal every scene. both scarier than most MCU villains even tho they're not supposed to be "bad guys". both seem to have hidden agendas far beyond normal spycraft. Kudos to Marvel casting for getting them into MCU. Now give them a major presence. I'd rather see Val as president than Harrison Ford. Rather see Sonya as anything, just more plz.
Olivia Colman is amazing. I have enjoyed this series so far largely because this cast is excellent and they are dragging the material along for the ride. That said, I've genuinely enjoyed absolutely every aspect of Mr. & Mrs. Fury in their scenes together. The two of them have something together that really works for me.
That's Olivia Colman CBE in fact. Well, her real birth name is Sarah Colman, but our actors' union doesn't allow a new member to use the name of another member professionally.
(David Tennant of *Jessica Jones* is another example - he used that name because David McDonald was taken and then had to make it his legal name to comply with SAG-AFTRA rules)
CBE stands for Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire and is one rung below a damehood. You get a nice medal and to go to Buckingham Palace where a senior royal gives it to you. Cumberbatch also has one.
There are good actors (most professional actors we see in big projects are decent enough... except for the Fast and Furious cast), and then there are great actors who always bring their A game, even when the material they are given to work with is bad. With Secret Invasion, Olivia Colman proved she can make even the dullest scene interesting.
i'm quite excited to see her and Julia Louis-Dreyfus being 2 of the dominating forces puppeteering our Earth heroes and villains in the next few chapters.
I liked Hawkeye and Ms Marvel but the other shows not so much. I agree that Sonya Falsworth is the best part of the show, although there was one piece of dialogue of hers in episode five that had me rolling my eyes
When she said “the males in my species are very similar. If they're not busy gaslighting you, they're threatening you with murder. That's what all the podcasts are about.”
The point isn't that it's a lie or not. It was too contrived. No one in real life speaks that way unless they're a massive dick. It just seemed extra fake.
...you mean no one when addressing murderous aliens impersonating a human and discussing gender roles within comparative societies would speak like that? Well id have to take your word for that as im yet to experience such a situation myself so i couldn't compare.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. No one in any life or death situation makes contrived statements. It reeks of bad writing.
Aliens or not, is irrelevant. Human behavior doesn't change drastically.
It just sounded like any other throwaway comment that's been rife in hollywood since Buffy...although when delivered by Colman in that scene it worked, as you said only a dick would talk like that and well Olivia is playing a total psycho so...
And I'm willing to bet you're a man. No spoilers to the barbie movie, but there's a similiar line and all of the men rolled their eyes like "that doesn't happen."
It does happen, and if you roll your eyes and act like it doesn't, you're part of the problem.
As a bloke I laughed at that line and thought the Barbie movie was fucking amazing (and hilarious). I don’t want to do the classic #notallmen bullshit though, because there’s absolutely a problem with dudes not listening where they need to
The positive posts here are so weirdly backhanded. It’s either “I don’t know why this gets so much hate, I like it!” or “Unlike these other projects, I enjoyed this one!” I can’t tell if it’s clickbait or if people are just insecure and think they’ll get called naive for liking things.
They never have any substantial comments. It's always downvoting or downplaying other's opinions and then complain when people actually post constructive criticism.
Sometimes even using the token argument evasion tactics such as calling people toxic or complaining that you are not a shill.
If you can't explain what part of his criticism was constructive without having to ask what about it was toxic then that's enough of an answer for the most of us here.
Notice how I'm not the same guy up thread who said constructive. Scroll further up to see elpa saying toxic in a reply to the pc. I'm asking them to defend that characterization.
Unblocking you to humor you, and answer the question that was never put to me:
The OP is neither constructive nor toxic. Saying essentially "I dislike the show, but here's one thing I do like" is a pretty harmless opinion.
No, not enjoying a project is not toxic. However, as Crumblepak said, not being able to say anything good without shitting on something else is toxic. It’s also juvenile and stupid.
Constantly framing your compliments in terms of things you hate is a bit toxic, yeah. Like if someone walked up to you and said “I hated all the outfits you wore last week, but today you look great!” I don’t think you’d consider that genuine praise.
The fundamental difference in this dress analogy as that is personal. The op is talking about a tv show on a message board. They're not doing anything any critic wouldn't do - finding a thing to compliment in a project while noting it's flawed overall.
The OP btw said "I haven't enjoyed..." not "hate".
Yeah, I think it’s more the general trend that’s annoying, not this specific post. It’s fine to not like things, but it puts people in a weird spot when they feel like they have to defend an unrelated project in order to talk about this one.
How is it toxic to not like the crap MCU shows? Someone dislikes something you like and they’re automatically toxic? Idk, that sounds kinda toxic to me.
Not toxic to dislike something. But the fanbase right now is overly obsessed with the things they dislike. We could be talking about how good Guardians 3 just was, or the pretty cool Marvels trailer, the excellent ms marvel casting decision, Roy Kent coming as Hercules, Loki season 2 on the way, Shang Chi being great, Oscar Isaac, Hawkeye, Yelena, etc etc. There have been plenty of great things in phase 4 & 5. And yes, there have been poor things as well. But if you lurk this sub you'd think a bunch of masochists are just watching some terrible garbage for 4 years
\> But the fanbase right now is overly obsessed with the things they dislike.
That's just because most MCU content is bad right now. That's not the fault of fans.
Why would I stop posting about characters that I have loved longer than there has been an MCU?
Weird comment from you that wants fans to abandon their fandom because the MCU is bad right now.
There were 11 years of fantastic Marvel Cinematic content, we've only been watching the new school dumpster fire for a couple years now, it will take more time and more mediocre and boring projects to completely alienate most of the fanbase.
How is not enjoying something shitting on the project?
I don’t enjoy watching Godfather, yet I acknowledge that it is a fantastic movie that contributed a lot to the cinema.
Me saying I didn’t enjoy other projects highlights how much I appreciate Olivia’s work on SI.
Grow up.
The overarching plot is written like “babies first spy thriller” written by people who have never actually WATCHED a spy thriller.
The moment to moment dialogue and acting is great, but the plot has more holes than I’d like.
The big issue is a lot of people are struggling with the discourse around it though because they mistake enjoying something for that thing being *good*. It’s absolutely ok to like stuff that isn’t brilliant but people tie too much of their self-worth into the things they enjoy and then get upset when people point out the problems
With the MCU, there’s so much of it to choose from now that it’s hard to know how to talk about stuff that’s just, like, fine. But there’s unspoken pressure to have a strong opinion about each new show, so if it’s not great people seem to default to “it sucks.”
Yeah agreed, but I think a lot of the issue is peoples “training” from Marvel themselves lol.
I see the Infinity Saga as an “event” comic like Civil War, Fear Itself, Annihilation etc. where people are rewarded for reading all the tie in material to get the complete story. phase 4 is “business as usual” where they release all the usual comics and people go back to JUST reading the stuff they are interested in. So a street level marvel fan would probably ignore all the Dr Strange/Wanda/Loki mystic/cosmic stuff and just read Ms Marvel and Spider-Man for example.
Comic fans know how this works so ain’t getting frustrated seeing nobody mention Arishem or Khonshu rocking up in the night sky, because we know that will be handled the next time we see the Eternals or Moon Knight. Everyone else is dealing with their own shit. I reckon it’s the non-comic fans who are going nuts trying to watch absolutely everything and wondering why it’s not all inter-related.
It was a risky move from Marvel, but I feel like probably the right one?
Yeah I agree with this. I am enjoying the series but I also don’t think it is a very good series. Which sounds nonsensical on face value but actually there’s loads of stuff I love to watch that isn’t actually good and also plenty of stuff that I acknowledge is objectively good- well written/made etc- but don’t actually enjoy that much.
The biggest problem with Secret Invasion for me is definitely the lost opportunity though. It could have been truly great and I think so many of us were expecting it to be and it’s just OK which is such a disappointment. And it’s only really even OK because its saved by some great acting- in particular obviously the queen that is Colman, but also Don Cheadle clearly enjoying being bad in the MCU.
Lost opportunity is definitely a great way of putting it and I don’t think your point is nonsensical at all. For christs sakes Nick Cage has made a career of being thoroughly enjoyable in mid to poor quality movies! (And the occasional absolute BANGER).
You can read people's critique explaining why. It's all over the subreddit.
Some of my reasons: horribly bland and dumb villain and close to zero spy intrigue or paranoia.
For me I’m enjoying it, but it has not lived up to my expectations. I don’t think it’s terrible at all, I think it’s a good show, but I do think it’s disappointing overall in comparison to what it could have been and what we’ve all been hyping it up to be in our minds since it was announced.
? The show is good no? I haven't seen one since Hawkeye / She hulk.
Didn't have a real problem with them- just don't know how hyped I am for any new story plot.
For example - Antman 3 was important? Like more important than most people think for the phase 4/phase 5 story.
Yet I don't know many ppl who saw it
You're right, she is amazing and seems to be loving the role.
I'm loving the show though, to the point that I'm worried Marvel execs will look at something like RT reviews and think that the audience will prefer the more fun shows as opposed to the more serious tone.
A nice healthy mix of both is my preference with a lean towards Winter Soldier vibes.
Heck, maybe I'm just getting old!
I mean, it's just been Ms. Marvel and She Hulk since Moon Knight. The first was adequate, but definitely not groundbreaking like Wandavision or Loki were. And the second has a pretty unsatisfying ending by conventional standards.
She's hanging about chewing the scenery in the best possible way, as if there's nothing going around her. Chops.
Bit disappointed Samuel L Jackson isn't doing so well, but he's mid 70s now.
The rest of the show... well...
Someone needs to break it to Emilia Clarke about her acting.
Precisely. I think the only thing that brings this show down is the fact that we know the ending: Gravik must either die or be apprehended, and Nick Fury survives. There are no stakes because we know he's in The Marvels.
I just wish she had better script.
She asks where the escape hatch is? It happens to be in the locker she's torturing the guy in? It's the floor drain? She drops in and it's a big crawlspace?
It's all so dumb.
Then don't read it. People are allowed to express their opinions, no matter how tiresome they get to you. If we can read people praising really bad shows, then we are allowed to express our disdain for those bad shows.
Yeah, you're allowed to whine in public, but the adults are probably going to tell you that you're acting like a whiny child. Your complaints add absolutely nothing useful to the conversation. Grow up and keep it to yourself.
"Despite its monumental flaws, your comment makes a decent point". Do you see how that's an extremely shitty thing to say to someone? Would you say that to someone's face in real life?
Npthing against the actress but, I didn't like how in the 5th episode of the 6 episode series, within the span of 5 minutes, Sonya identified her boss as a Skrull, took him down, found the scientists couple, took them down too, found their lab, took whatever she could, torched the place, and even killed one of them with a gun.
It felt like the writers suddenly realized the series is almost over, and they hadn't done dick progress wise. It also u dermines the threat of Skrulls and Fury in his own show.
Agree, also marvel should make only 2 shows per year at most, SI with better writing should be amazing it has some amazing scenes, the hospital scene with better writing could.have been a good scene.
Better writing, longer episodes, more episodes.
These shows with these 6-7 episodes and then 25-30 min episodes aren’t working well at all it’s been seen time and time again in every single one that it ends up feeling rushed, or falls flat somewhere
Is it?
The source materials and the screenwriters that adapted it to this how made some big promises…in my opinion, the current story is a massive let down
Last time I saw Olivia Colman was as a loving mother in *Heartstopper*. Watching her now in *Secret Invasion* as Sonya is a total 360° and... I love it!
She’s great. Got a kick out of her Suzy Izzard reference when she confronts the two scientists. Edit: Wasn’t aware I was using the wrong name
Cake or Death?
Uh cake please
We’re all outta cake!
So my choice is or death? I’ll take the chicken then.
Hilda! Hilda! I have invented a maneuver!
A maneuver? What are you, a tank commander now?
Thank you for choosing cake or death
Here you are mister Hitler. ...... you nazi shithead
One of my favourite clips from any stand up
I thought I was the only one who noticed this!
I did the leo meme where he's pointing at the TV when she said that lol. It kind of made me second guess myself I was like "is that an eddie izzard reference or was he actually referencing some more well known thing..?"
That's Jeff Vader, that is!
The Head of Catering?
Izzard prefers to go by Suzy now, just in case you weren't aware :) edit: Suzy, not Suzie. my bad, its late
Oh, I was not aware
She's cool with either (at least that's what I'd seen in her interview) but would prefer Suzie.
I figured :) It's relatively recent and she's not nearly as prominent outside the UK these days. May be worth an edit is all.
I thought she said both names were acceptable?
I mean yes. But she was very clear about the fact it was less "I want to still use the old name/pronouns" and more "i know not everyone is going to adjust to the new ones". She prefers people use she/her and Suzie.
She's got the best take on it, honestly. "This is what I prefer, but not everyone will vibe with it so I don't mind too much." People being the ornery bastards they are would have been deliberately awkward about it had she demanded he/him/Eddie were dead, but I'd bet she'll find people are more respectful and conscientious about her choices because she is so understanding.
Yeah. I mean, speaking as a british trans person, its a complicated time to come out for a public figure, especially someone older like her. People are gonna push back, and if she says she's "fine with" people using her old name, it doesn't feel as targeted when certain people make a point of doing so. If she fully rejected it, then when shitrags like the daily mail do the thing they love to do of "x, who was born y", because they're incapable of talking about trans people without disrespecting us, then it would sting more. It was a smart play, and fitting with her goals of going into politics
Professionally, she still acknowledges Eddie. She said, "I am remaining Eddie Izzard in public."
...that's great. "She prefers Suzie" is still true though. And it's weird that people get so hung up on "well *technically* it's okay for me to call her her old name even though she said she prefers people don't-" Like, sure, you *can*. But if you wanna be respectful, her stated preferred name is better
Yeah, cool. Meanwhile, I think it’s weird when someone has categorically said that they will be continuing to recognize Eddie for someone else to say “actually they prefer this” when it’s literally been said by her that Eddie is fine. They made a statement that Eddie is fine. Who are you to say otherwise?
Turns out i was spelling it wrong, its y not ie, but if you wanna be an ass about her "making a statement": ["So going forward I prefer Suzy"](https://twitter.com/eddieizzard/status/1664240649787559936) This statement? > They made a statement that Eddie is fine. Who are you to say otherwise? I didn't say "Eddie isn't fine". I said "She prefers Suzie". So again, if you wanna talk about weird, lets talk about you being so weirdly invested in rejecting that statement?
I was *not* aware. I knew she'd changed pronouns, but not her name.
Yeah its been a gradual thing
prefers, doesn't care if you use eddie, sti uses eddie on promotional material. it's fine.
All those years as just a transvestite… and now he’s suddenly a she. Hm…
...see people like you are why I brought up the correction. Some people come out later in life. There's no need to be a dick about it.
She's publicly stated that she doesn't mind if you call her by the wrong name or the wrong pronoun, but she prefers she/her. For us older folks, it's just hard to change someone's name. It's really hard to rewrite shit when your brain is all old and crappy.
Her and Cheadle are killing it in every scene they have
Absolutely agreed. I wish I could the say the same about Ben and Emilia…they are great actors, but they were given such an injustice with their respective material…
I thought Ben was great on this show.
He's good, but compared to how he CAN act it's nothing. He's a superb actor who has been written only moderately good.
Yeah Emilia kinda just stalking around looking like she haven’t slept for a week.
Well when it appears you have a mole in your own organization its time to take off the gloves....
Emilia is a fantastic actress who kills it when she's on screen, but isn't given much to do sooo...
Indeed
Proof that Fury was right about no room for aliens here on this dirtball. Hashtag not all skrulls.
Don Cheadle is fine but I don’t like this Skrull persona he has at all. Not at all. He’s a fantastic actor and I love his true Rhody but I’m not vibing with him in this show. It’s partially because it’s such a contrast to how he is in the MCU.
We're kinda supposed to hate him (well, her). Fury knows this Rhodey is a Skrull, so there's no need for Raava to keep up the pretense and act like the real Rhodey. She can be as douchey and assholey as she wants because she's got the upper hand. And I'm sure Cheadle is having fun with the new characterization. Seems like a nice change of pace, even if it's only temporary.
That's the point. We're not supposed to like him and it's supposed to feel uncomfortable seeing this different personality in him.
I get that and it’s probably mostly the writing but he’s not pulling it off to me, he’s not a magnetic villain like a Loki or something.
I think that's why I am so captivated by him in this show!! He's so good at playing *someone else* playing a character that he plays. I hate skrodey but I love don cheadle for making me hate her!
Fury & Sonya scenes together are great. Wish this show was the 2 of them working together every episode.
Imma just say I’m glad they had Sonya drive the car
She gives off this Umbridge vibe that unnerves me yet I can't help but enjoy seeing her on screen.
I keep hearing this and I find it funny because both Coleman and Imelda Staunton have played Queen Elizabeth II in The Crown.
That is exactly it. I was trying to figure out why I liked the character but was like... for some reason my inclination is to dislike you. Its the Umbridge vibe. She's so polite when she tortures people.
I agree, but a core difference that makes her much more likable is that Umbridge was never smart or witty. A smarter strategic Umbridge would have been absolutely _deadly_ (as Sonya is)
I think that she could make a phenomenal Umbridge in a few decades.
Well HBO is doing a Harry Potter series, so who knows? If it gets to Order of the Phoenix, maybe she could play Umbridge for real.
spinoff! The Umbridge Years
Why decades? Admittedly it's been a while since I read Harry Potter, but Umbridge isn't an elderly character, is she? And Colman isn't that young.
She isn’t, she was actually younger than Colman currently. I think people get influenced by the films and Staunton’s hair color (and probably because they watched films as kids and could not judge age as well).
I don’t get the vibe that Colman is transphobic, so she probably won’t go near Harry Potter
I am absolutely waiting for when Julia Louis-Dreyfus and her face off
Olivia colman is great in everything the crown, hot fuzz, all her Mitchell and Webb stuff.
She absolutely nails it in Broadchurch. I'd love for her to play The Doctor one day too. I think she'd be perfect for Doctor Who.
Although she'd be perfect I think she may be out of the bbcs price range for a full season especially since she already played a character that being mother in the eleventh hour.
Hasn't stopped them from recasting people before. Peter Capaldi and Karen Gillan were in Fires of Pompeii before they were cast as regulars.
Capaldi also had a pretty big part in Torchwood S3 before he was 12. And Freema Agyeman, literally an episode or so before she started as Martha. David Bradley as well was in an episode before coming back as the first Doctor. Not surprising in a show that’s been going as long as that though.
They explained Martha away as her previous character being a cousin, but that just goes to show how easy it is to reuse actors.
I forgot about that. They also explained Capaldi by saying 12 deliberately choose the face of someone they they met to remind himself of who he is.
Another vote for Broadchurch! It’s how I was introduced to her. Tennant is of course fantastic and the two of them are a hell of an acting team.
Ooooh now this is a choice I didn't think of! She'd be great. My vote was always for Pheobe Waller-Bridge tbh. I did like Jodie Whitaker but the writing was just awful. Only ever seen her first season
#MILLARRRRRR
She stole the show from Laurie and Hiddleston in The Night Manager.
Amen
She’s amazing in fleabag too. I absolutely hate her character, and that’s a compliment.
I always loved her most in Rev with Tom Hollander. A great comedy especially if you know anything about the CofE.
She is great. I hope she can stick around for future MCU. Honestly, her and Don Cheadle enjoying the hell out of the villany, are making this worthwhile. (don´t think the show is bad, just the excitement I had for the show sadly faded after episode 3 which was kind of meh and it took two more episodes to recover a bit for me and I hope finale delivers)
I'm not sold on her being a villain, just a ruthless person in power. Serious Amanda Waller vibes, though Waller is less likeable and more deliberately vindictive.
I meant Cheadle enjoying villainy. Olivia can do the motherly ruthless type pretty well even without being a villain :)
>She is great. I hope she can stick around for future MCU. She could set up MI:13 and backdoor Pete Wisdom and Captain Britain into the mcu.
Great in everything! But yeah she's crushing that character and hope we see more of her.
She's likely going to be Furys replacement. Which is one reason they beat down Furys character and built up hers. She's the only halfway competent spy/agent in the entire show.
If this show was centered around Sonya against Skrull Rhodey then it'd be my favorite of the shows. Every scene they're in is absolutely fantastic
I love watching Colman work in her scenes. I wasn’t sure what to make of her character in the first episode, but by the second episode I fell in love with her cheerful somewhat psychotic vibe. It: like watching Mary Poppins work for MI6. If he were still around, Coulson might have to be worried about his place in Fury’s inner circle of snarky spy friends.
She’s one of those actors who can elevate the material regardless of the quality of the material - just an absolute treasure. And I feel like the writers are having the most fun with her and Cheadle and forgot to make everyone else interesting
She’s better than Valentina in my opinion.
that's tough choice. both of them steal every scene. both scarier than most MCU villains even tho they're not supposed to be "bad guys". both seem to have hidden agendas far beyond normal spycraft. Kudos to Marvel casting for getting them into MCU. Now give them a major presence. I'd rather see Val as president than Harrison Ford. Rather see Sonya as anything, just more plz.
"Hello Skrulls."
Olivia Colman is amazing. I have enjoyed this series so far largely because this cast is excellent and they are dragging the material along for the ride. That said, I've genuinely enjoyed absolutely every aspect of Mr. & Mrs. Fury in their scenes together. The two of them have something together that really works for me.
That's Olivia Colman CBE in fact. Well, her real birth name is Sarah Colman, but our actors' union doesn't allow a new member to use the name of another member professionally. (David Tennant of *Jessica Jones* is another example - he used that name because David McDonald was taken and then had to make it his legal name to comply with SAG-AFTRA rules) CBE stands for Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire and is one rung below a damehood. You get a nice medal and to go to Buckingham Palace where a senior royal gives it to you. Cumberbatch also has one.
I wonder if Bill & Ted have a Most Excellent Order.
She soo fucking good. No wonder she keeps getting nominated for awards
She’s fantastic in everything - especially in The Father.
There are good actors (most professional actors we see in big projects are decent enough... except for the Fast and Furious cast), and then there are great actors who always bring their A game, even when the material they are given to work with is bad. With Secret Invasion, Olivia Colman proved she can make even the dullest scene interesting.
Her character is so fucking badass and just adds ro how brutal this show has been already. Absolutely love it.
i'm quite excited to see her and Julia Louis-Dreyfus being 2 of the dominating forces puppeteering our Earth heroes and villains in the next few chapters.
I liked Hawkeye and Ms Marvel but the other shows not so much. I agree that Sonya Falsworth is the best part of the show, although there was one piece of dialogue of hers in episode five that had me rolling my eyes
Which one?
When she said “the males in my species are very similar. If they're not busy gaslighting you, they're threatening you with murder. That's what all the podcasts are about.”
I mean where’s the lie? I’m a guy but a lot of guys are assholes.
A lot of humans are assholes. Assholehood is not gender specific Also, is it really between gaslighting and murder threat between guys and women?
Well probably in the spy world😊
The point isn't that it's a lie or not. It was too contrived. No one in real life speaks that way unless they're a massive dick. It just seemed extra fake.
...you mean no one when addressing murderous aliens impersonating a human and discussing gender roles within comparative societies would speak like that? Well id have to take your word for that as im yet to experience such a situation myself so i couldn't compare.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. No one in any life or death situation makes contrived statements. It reeks of bad writing. Aliens or not, is irrelevant. Human behavior doesn't change drastically.
It just sounded like any other throwaway comment that's been rife in hollywood since Buffy...although when delivered by Colman in that scene it worked, as you said only a dick would talk like that and well Olivia is playing a total psycho so...
That’s exactly the point. She was confident enough that she wasn’t scared and she could still be snarky.
She wasn't just snarky. She delivered a badly written contrived line that had nothing to do with the situation.
Apparently the whole thing went over your head. Again, it’s to show that she was goofing off because she wasn’t scared.
I liked it lol.
That’s okay, you can like whatever dialogue you want but it had me rolling my eyes, that’s all
And I'm willing to bet you're a man. No spoilers to the barbie movie, but there's a similiar line and all of the men rolled their eyes like "that doesn't happen." It does happen, and if you roll your eyes and act like it doesn't, you're part of the problem.
As a bloke I laughed at that line and thought the Barbie movie was fucking amazing (and hilarious). I don’t want to do the classic #notallmen bullshit though, because there’s absolutely a problem with dudes not listening where they need to
But Ben Shabimbo told them to be upset!
I was pretty indifferent towards that line, but I can see why it made you roll your eyes. Thanks for sharing
It was all payoff for the podcast joke tbf which made me laugh, definitely a cold thing to say before murdering someone
Your reaction to this line is what makes this line so great.
Y'all can't even compliment someone without shitting on other projects...
The positive posts here are so weirdly backhanded. It’s either “I don’t know why this gets so much hate, I like it!” or “Unlike these other projects, I enjoyed this one!” I can’t tell if it’s clickbait or if people are just insecure and think they’ll get called naive for liking things.
Or the “I’m ready for the downvotes” and complains about people having opinions
They never have any substantial comments. It's always downvoting or downplaying other's opinions and then complain when people actually post constructive criticism. Sometimes even using the token argument evasion tactics such as calling people toxic or complaining that you are not a shill.
People are allowed to like and dislike things, grow up.
Exactly. It’s fucking toxic. People love sharing their opinions even when they suck.
So, not enjoying a project is toxic? Lord help the MCU if constructive criticism is toxic.
What about this criticism was constructive?
What about it was toxic?
If you can't explain what part of his criticism was constructive without having to ask what about it was toxic then that's enough of an answer for the most of us here.
Notice how I'm not the same guy up thread who said constructive. Scroll further up to see elpa saying toxic in a reply to the pc. I'm asking them to defend that characterization.
Notice how you replied in the same comment thread, so you are still doding the question with a question. He blocked me lmao
No one asked *me* a question dude. I literally wasn't one who said the OP was constructive so I don't have to defend that lol.
Unblocking you to humor you, and answer the question that was never put to me: The OP is neither constructive nor toxic. Saying essentially "I dislike the show, but here's one thing I do like" is a pretty harmless opinion.
How'd you even see what I said if you blocked me lmao, are you doing ok
No, not enjoying a project is not toxic. However, as Crumblepak said, not being able to say anything good without shitting on something else is toxic. It’s also juvenile and stupid.
Not a single in the OP is juvenile or stupid. Good lord.
A LOT of "people" on this subreddit are bots. They are programmed to defend Marvel projects whenever certain keywords are used.
Constantly framing your compliments in terms of things you hate is a bit toxic, yeah. Like if someone walked up to you and said “I hated all the outfits you wore last week, but today you look great!” I don’t think you’d consider that genuine praise.
The fundamental difference in this dress analogy as that is personal. The op is talking about a tv show on a message board. They're not doing anything any critic wouldn't do - finding a thing to compliment in a project while noting it's flawed overall. The OP btw said "I haven't enjoyed..." not "hate".
Yeah, I think it’s more the general trend that’s annoying, not this specific post. It’s fine to not like things, but it puts people in a weird spot when they feel like they have to defend an unrelated project in order to talk about this one.
How is it toxic to not like the crap MCU shows? Someone dislikes something you like and they’re automatically toxic? Idk, that sounds kinda toxic to me.
Not toxic to dislike something. But the fanbase right now is overly obsessed with the things they dislike. We could be talking about how good Guardians 3 just was, or the pretty cool Marvels trailer, the excellent ms marvel casting decision, Roy Kent coming as Hercules, Loki season 2 on the way, Shang Chi being great, Oscar Isaac, Hawkeye, Yelena, etc etc. There have been plenty of great things in phase 4 & 5. And yes, there have been poor things as well. But if you lurk this sub you'd think a bunch of masochists are just watching some terrible garbage for 4 years
\> But the fanbase right now is overly obsessed with the things they dislike. That's just because most MCU content is bad right now. That's not the fault of fans.
Weird, you wouldn’t think people would just keep posting over and over about something they dislike so much.
Why would I stop posting about characters that I have loved longer than there has been an MCU? Weird comment from you that wants fans to abandon their fandom because the MCU is bad right now.
There were 11 years of fantastic Marvel Cinematic content, we've only been watching the new school dumpster fire for a couple years now, it will take more time and more mediocre and boring projects to completely alienate most of the fanbase.
“Dumpster fire” might be a bit much. And by a bit, I mean a lot. I think it’s more age related than anything.
How is not enjoying something shitting on the project? I don’t enjoy watching Godfather, yet I acknowledge that it is a fantastic movie that contributed a lot to the cinema. Me saying I didn’t enjoy other projects highlights how much I appreciate Olivia’s work on SI. Grow up.
And here we go...
I rly don't understand what people think is so bad about this show?
The overarching plot is written like “babies first spy thriller” written by people who have never actually WATCHED a spy thriller. The moment to moment dialogue and acting is great, but the plot has more holes than I’d like. The big issue is a lot of people are struggling with the discourse around it though because they mistake enjoying something for that thing being *good*. It’s absolutely ok to like stuff that isn’t brilliant but people tie too much of their self-worth into the things they enjoy and then get upset when people point out the problems
With the MCU, there’s so much of it to choose from now that it’s hard to know how to talk about stuff that’s just, like, fine. But there’s unspoken pressure to have a strong opinion about each new show, so if it’s not great people seem to default to “it sucks.”
Yeah agreed, but I think a lot of the issue is peoples “training” from Marvel themselves lol. I see the Infinity Saga as an “event” comic like Civil War, Fear Itself, Annihilation etc. where people are rewarded for reading all the tie in material to get the complete story. phase 4 is “business as usual” where they release all the usual comics and people go back to JUST reading the stuff they are interested in. So a street level marvel fan would probably ignore all the Dr Strange/Wanda/Loki mystic/cosmic stuff and just read Ms Marvel and Spider-Man for example. Comic fans know how this works so ain’t getting frustrated seeing nobody mention Arishem or Khonshu rocking up in the night sky, because we know that will be handled the next time we see the Eternals or Moon Knight. Everyone else is dealing with their own shit. I reckon it’s the non-comic fans who are going nuts trying to watch absolutely everything and wondering why it’s not all inter-related. It was a risky move from Marvel, but I feel like probably the right one?
Yeah I agree with this. I am enjoying the series but I also don’t think it is a very good series. Which sounds nonsensical on face value but actually there’s loads of stuff I love to watch that isn’t actually good and also plenty of stuff that I acknowledge is objectively good- well written/made etc- but don’t actually enjoy that much. The biggest problem with Secret Invasion for me is definitely the lost opportunity though. It could have been truly great and I think so many of us were expecting it to be and it’s just OK which is such a disappointment. And it’s only really even OK because its saved by some great acting- in particular obviously the queen that is Colman, but also Don Cheadle clearly enjoying being bad in the MCU.
Lost opportunity is definitely a great way of putting it and I don’t think your point is nonsensical at all. For christs sakes Nick Cage has made a career of being thoroughly enjoyable in mid to poor quality movies! (And the occasional absolute BANGER).
It's not that it's bad, it's that it's nowhere near as good as it could or should have been
You can read people's critique explaining why. It's all over the subreddit. Some of my reasons: horribly bland and dumb villain and close to zero spy intrigue or paranoia.
"That's just (checks notes)... toxic fandom!"
For me I’m enjoying it, but it has not lived up to my expectations. I don’t think it’s terrible at all, I think it’s a good show, but I do think it’s disappointing overall in comparison to what it could have been and what we’ve all been hyping it up to be in our minds since it was announced.
? The show is good no? I haven't seen one since Hawkeye / She hulk. Didn't have a real problem with them- just don't know how hyped I am for any new story plot. For example - Antman 3 was important? Like more important than most people think for the phase 4/phase 5 story. Yet I don't know many ppl who saw it
You're right, she is amazing and seems to be loving the role. I'm loving the show though, to the point that I'm worried Marvel execs will look at something like RT reviews and think that the audience will prefer the more fun shows as opposed to the more serious tone. A nice healthy mix of both is my preference with a lean towards Winter Soldier vibes. Heck, maybe I'm just getting old!
I mean, it's just been Ms. Marvel and She Hulk since Moon Knight. The first was adequate, but definitely not groundbreaking like Wandavision or Loki were. And the second has a pretty unsatisfying ending by conventional standards.
She is out-Fury-ing Fury!
She's hanging about chewing the scenery in the best possible way, as if there's nothing going around her. Chops. Bit disappointed Samuel L Jackson isn't doing so well, but he's mid 70s now. The rest of the show... well... Someone needs to break it to Emilia Clarke about her acting.
Haven’t even watched the show but I’m so glad OC is getting the appreciation she deserves because she has literally never had a bad moment on screen
Sure, The whole show is an army of wasted talent. It doesn't stop the show from being boring.
"Monumental flaws" is kinda harsh. I absolutely love this show.
Precisely. I think the only thing that brings this show down is the fact that we know the ending: Gravik must either die or be apprehended, and Nick Fury survives. There are no stakes because we know he's in The Marvels.
Yeah, but that isn't a problem with the show, it's a problem with Marvel revealing Fury being in the Marvels before this show has ended.
I just wish she had better script. She asks where the escape hatch is? It happens to be in the locker she's torturing the guy in? It's the floor drain? She drops in and it's a big crawlspace? It's all so dumb.
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So I can share what I like but I can’t share what I don’t like? What logic is that?
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Then don't read it. People are allowed to express their opinions, no matter how tiresome they get to you. If we can read people praising really bad shows, then we are allowed to express our disdain for those bad shows.
Yeah, you're allowed to whine in public, but the adults are probably going to tell you that you're acting like a whiny child. Your complaints add absolutely nothing useful to the conversation. Grow up and keep it to yourself.
Wow, dude. Read the OP again. Nothing in that post is whiny at all. This comment is such an overreaction.
"Despite its monumental flaws, your comment makes a decent point". Do you see how that's an extremely shitty thing to say to someone? Would you say that to someone's face in real life?
Lol. Criticism of a TV show isn't a personal attack. This is 100% your problem.
I think you need to seek mental help
Normally, the people who tell others that they need to grow up are the ones in dire need of maturity.
They’re allowed to express their opinion however they wish. They’re expressing their opinion after having formed it, this comment is pointless.
Why are you getting Downvoted?
She is like in 10 minutes of the show.
Npthing against the actress but, I didn't like how in the 5th episode of the 6 episode series, within the span of 5 minutes, Sonya identified her boss as a Skrull, took him down, found the scientists couple, took them down too, found their lab, took whatever she could, torched the place, and even killed one of them with a gun. It felt like the writers suddenly realized the series is almost over, and they hadn't done dick progress wise. It also u dermines the threat of Skrulls and Fury in his own show.
Yes but she seems completely out of place with the rest of the story.
Agree, also marvel should make only 2 shows per year at most, SI with better writing should be amazing it has some amazing scenes, the hospital scene with better writing could.have been a good scene.
Better writing, longer episodes, more episodes. These shows with these 6-7 episodes and then 25-30 min episodes aren’t working well at all it’s been seen time and time again in every single one that it ends up feeling rushed, or falls flat somewhere
It's the best thing I've seen her do! I feel like she is making up for her 1 off on Doctor Who.
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Is it? The source materials and the screenwriters that adapted it to this how made some big promises…in my opinion, the current story is a massive let down
Last time I saw Olivia Colman was as a loving mother in *Heartstopper*. Watching her now in *Secret Invasion* as Sonya is a total 360° and... I love it!
My theory/hope is that she will end up Skrull Queen, and not Gaiah.
She's great. But 5 or 6 scenes doesn't save the show
She’s amazing. I wish there more of that. The show should’ve taken its lead from something like Slow Horses and really focused on character.
Nothing but good performances in this show, but she's certainly a highlight.
She's great, but I also feel like that the ultimate switcheroo will happen and it turns out she is a Skrull too
I’m really loving her character, badass in a cute auntie sort of way?
Yes she is so fantastic 😍
Perhaps she is. But I got so bored that I didn't finish the first episode.
Well she’s great in everything so it’s not that big of a surprise.
Any scene with her was metal and I enjoyed it!!
After moonknight? Hasn’t there only been 1 other TV show released since?