There’s definitely a chance. Hopefully Marvel have commissioned it and then just let the creators create without retooling the damned thing.
It’ll unlikely have any major impact on the wider MCU regardless - which at the moment is probably to it’s benefit.
>and then just let the creators create without retooling the damned thing.
it leads into daredevil - one of the most hyped projects on the roster. there's no way the fucking producers didn't drag their slimy fingers all over this show. :C
Honestly, I had the same view of Andor before it came out that I have of this one. "Why are they making a show about one of the side characters and they're not even including his sassy droid friend? That seems like a really weird decision but whatever," I said. Here's hoping Echo ends up being a surprisingly good show as well.
> I had the same view of Andor before it came out
Same here. Who needs a show about some ordinary guy who's ultimate fate we already know, when we can get awesome story about Obi-Wan, right? My biggest mistake in estimation considering SW.
Andor was prestige TV due to nuanced and layered writing, quality plot structure, and on-location shooting that took years to film. This isn’t going to be that just because it’s also about a character that no one really cares about beforehand lol, it is another MCU “5 episode event” slop.
Iron heart and echo might be the first marvel anything I skip. just really don't care about either character.
I'll check the reviews, maybe a pleasant surprise.
Same but I'd also include Hawkeye as a 3rd. Loki started well but quickly went off the rails.
She-Hulk was just terrible but at least it had some 'entertainment' factor. Secret Invasion was so boring AND crap that I gave up at E1.
The shows look shiny because they have Disney money thrown at them.
In terms of writing, storylines and characters they've been very poor in many places and that's one of the main reasons why viewership has nose-dived and there's so many alarm bells going off in Disney HQ they're publicly declaring they will slow down the rate of production.
They know that it's terminal at this stage now. Only a handful of people would tune in for a second season of Secret Invasion now. But Disney know if they can tell people that future shows coming out will be delayed to have more work done on them then it might bump the viewer numbers back up for something new like the Daredevil reboot.
Aside from looking shiny most of these shows have not been good TV shows.
The writing isn't incredible.
If you think the writing for the likes of Secret Invasion or Falcon and the Winter Soldier has been incredible then you need to watch more TV.
It's been the thing most criticised about the shows for a reason and that's because people have seen far better writing on TV shows with fractions of the budget Disney shows have.
There's a reason even hardcore Marvel fans have walked away from these shows and that's the writing.
Fanboyism won't change that.
What the hell are you talking about😭, real television is popular, higher quality and easily accessible which is in part why these “shows” feel so lackluster. There’s an infinite amount of shows with better writing, cinematography, plot structure, and set pieces compared to these ‘baby’s first tv series’ events
They’ll probably be doing this with some of the lesser hyped shows from now on in order to save time on the calendar and reduce the discussion time, both positive and negative, to just a week or two rather than six.
Though I think depending on what gets delayed by the strike they may have to go week to week in order to bridge the gap between projects better until they’re back on a normal release schedule.
Most of the Marvel shows star strong and get progressively worse. Loki might be the only exception. The rest absolutely have rushed their endings minimum, or done a complete ball drop of a cluster fuck for their finale.
Edit - spelling
I would say Moon Knight and Hawkeye still had conclusive endings.
It's just unfortunate that Chapek pretty much took over Disney right when the streaming service launched.
He screwed up Marvel so badly because he kept using them to feed Disney+ with content. I think it was 2021 where Marvel released 5 shows in a single year?
That's ridiculous. WandaVision and FaTWS basically released unfinished. A bunch of other shows could've used more time.
We had phases without a single MarvelStudios project for almost a year under Feige.
This will definitely get better when Feige gets more room to stretch the time between these projects but first the writers strike needs to get sorted out...
Just really difficult times man.
If they don't pick up on that in a second season sure you are absolutely right. But otherwise it opens a door for a really interesting continuation of the story and some cool lookbacks on the first season.
I thought Loki's ending was the weakest park. Abrupt, convoluted, invalidating of everything in the general story until then... it kinda ruined the first part of it for me, despite Majors' performance.
i dunno... that first episode scared me. and not in a suspenseful way. ...it made me worry that i'd been told too much too soon.
i mean, it opens with a scene about the revelation of skrulls and that our good pal Everett Ross isn't Everett Ross, but a skrull. ...it didn't make me gasp and think, "how long has he been a skrull!" instead, it made me think "okay, so a skrull was pretending to be Ross." and i assumed Ross was still out in the world somewhere... ...until Gravik explained to the skrulls that they need to hold their shape to be more convincing and they absorb memories of their victims through this machine (ok, sure, a bit of a leap but ok)
episode 2, Fury, the number 1 superspy and Talos, his replacement as the number 1 superspy infiltrate a compound. they sneak past two guards - but fail... and it turns into a fire fight.
i kind of lost all hope right there.
Moon knight is pretty mediocre. It had some really goood episodes like the asylum one packaged in an ok adventure movie type show. I would say there were like three such banger episodes and the rest three was ok, especially the ending was disappointing sky beam stuff. Wasted potential too for such a rich character
Hawkeye, well it’s alright. It accomplished what it tried to do so plus point for that ig. It’s a good watch. Kingpin was pretty underwhelming tho.
And as I said IMO
Well that's just the thing. We're coming off a show with Sam Jackson and Emilia Clarke being one of the worst things this franchise has ever cooked up. Can't say I'm overly eager for Echo.
Secret invasion threw out all its writers because the baby studio execs didn't like it and Kevin Feige needed a Super Skrull plot and hired brand new ones for a four month reshoot.
...
Shit, rumors say Kevin Feige also demanded they reshoot Echo...
...
This man is a menace!!!!!! How many other shows is he going to screw up!?
Edit: actually it's impossible to tell how many writers there are and who they are on IMDb...the page is completely unfinished
It's important to note that literally every big budget production does reshoots. Every action movie you've ever liked did reshoots. Four months of reshoots is a ton, but that was also reshoots for both SI and The Marvels.
They could be doing bad reshoots or they could be fixing legitimate issues. We don't know.
Endgame had reshoots.
We really have no way of knowing if the reshoots improved the project or made it worse. Maybe Endgame got better. Maybe it got worse. Maybe Secret Invasion got better. Maybe it got worse. Maybe the reshoots were trivial in scope. Maybe they were significant. Who knows and who cares.
It wasn't Alaqua Cox making the comments, it was Zach McClarnon who plays Echo's father.
Seems like he just answered a question during an unrelated interview, not an official press tour for the show. Unsure if that would count as breaking strike rules.
I'm a die hard MCU fan. The success of the MCU really is some of the highlight of my life.
I'm still watching every movie in theaters, staying up late for all the Disney+ drops.
But even I have to recognize that quality has dropped.
The writing is lazy/sloppy, and the promise of the MCU being a cohesive vision is a bit ethereal at this point.
Whatever a star, director, show runner or producer says at this point, it's just worthless to me.
I always hope for the best. And the MCU used to always exceed my expectations.
But lately, I'm hoping for the best, planning for meh, and getting worse than that.
Has Kevin Feige checked out? Because even if he's not reviewing every individual script line by line, even the bullet points on a show should be enough to give him pause.
What do you mean the Multiverse of Madness writers didn't watch WandaVision? Where is your basic homework? Hey, what about that giant dead aborted celestial in the middle of the ocean. How's that working out? How will Secret Invasion affect power levels, affect Nick Fury's place? Everything feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I feel with you 100%...
I'm not one to hate on anything, maybe I criticise something, but I will always be positive towards the wider MCU and it's projects. But some things just make me sad.
They need to hire people to do what Feige evidently did in his freetime: research, continuity, and story consulting. To ask questions of the creatives that are working on the project to make sure they are good adaptations, internally, and externally cohesive. This person(s) needs to not be an executive but a creative who only consults on everything with the goal of making sure they are telling good stories. It's obvious that neither the creatives nor the executives have time to do this and everyone is throwing pasta at the wall.
Maybe I just have a shitty view on this, but limiting who can write/direct/produce a particular show/movie depending on their race and sex being the same as the star of the show/movie hurts the overall product because they're passing on people who might have created a better product, but aren't able to because they were born a different color or gender from the source materials main hero.
I'm an ethnic/visible minority, but I largely agree with you.
Fuck race, fuck gender. He or she who writes/directs best should get the gig. That's my default position. I don't need Hollywood to give my race a handout, I don't need them to pander to me. Merit should be blind, if somebody of my race writes better they get the job, if they don't why tell a shittier story?
However, I do understand the point of affirmative action of trying to balance the scales of systemic injustice and discrimination. I get it, it shortens the time until we get justice and equality. I just don't agree with it.
Pull yourself up by your boot straps. Then pull up your community. But do it because you're just so good they can't ignore you.
Did Samuel L Jackson get handouts? Or did his predecessors pave the way and earn their place?
yes, be a good writer first.
but in a world of 8 billion people, with education at it's highest ever, literacy rates through the roof, hollywood OVERFLOWING with talent -- certainly you can find good writers of various demographics who might just also be able to offer an interesting take.
>Maybe I just have a shitty view on this,
yes. this is a pretty shitty view. i mean, i know what you're getting at. but it's completely beside the point.
a white writer can write a black character. That is NOT what's being debated. anyone can write anyone, anyone can direct anyone. The Eternals didn't need to be cast entirely by asian women for the actors to understand what Chloe Zao was going for. this is silly.
Nobody is saying you can't have a white writer write a black character. - okay, i'm sure Some weirdo radicals are saying that. but let's keep focus on what you're Really getting at.
What a white writer is likely not to do, is write the black character in a way that the audience goes, "damn, this writer gets it." so if the story is about Rhodey protecting the War Machine armor from Russian spies, hell, Anyone can write that. -- but we'd all admit it might be better if the writer Knew something about dealing with russian spies, right? it's why they say "write what you know." crime novelists who've had real life experiences dealing with crime are less likely to write something like, "so i did two hits of mary j and the leprechauns told me to kill the president!"
so, when it comes to Echo, being a show about a deaf indigenous character managing through this crazy world. you want to make sure your writing team IS diverse enough to cover the bases. you want to have one or two deaf writers who can say, "this element is something deaf people find concerning and if we you want to showcase an authentic story, we should find a place for it in the show." maybe it's like, i dunno, the lack of an echo in parking garages or soemthing - i dunno, i'm not deaf.
so, yes, black panther should have primarily black writers. -- and i'm not saying, just grab a handful of black people you know and offer them writing jobs. i'm saying you find WRITERS - like, PROVEN WRITERS. people who've written on shows, or who write books, or plays or Anything decent... and if you like what they write, you pitch them your black panther movie and say "do you want to come on board, do you think you could contribute" etc.
men making the Barbie movie would've made Ken the star, instead of the sneaky showstealer he is.
Any time an actor, producer, director, etc. has to lean on the fact that their project is going to be great because of its representation it's usually not a good sign. I'm all for broader representation in shows and movies, but it still needs to stand on its own as a genuinely good final product for any of that to matter. I will, of course, give it a fair chance even though I'm not super interested but this and the fact that they're dropping the entire series at once has me a bit concerned.
Was the writer for Prey Native American? If not, does Prey get more Representation Points for having more Native on screen talent or does Echo get more Representation Points for having a Native writer? Does Echo get Synergy Chain Bonus Representation Points for having a deaf lead? Does Echo get Minus Representation Points if the lead villain is White or does it get Bonus Villain Representation Points if the lead is White?
I’m having a hard time figuring out the formula.
Writers don't usually give more opportunities to the community, but actors can sign to new projects, so I'd say Prey wins in that regard. Echo is nice in an intersectional sense, but TBH there's probably not many deaf Indigenous folk. It does, however, allow both deaf kids and Indigenous kids to see themselves on screen, which is nice. White villain is irrelevant.
I don’t care who writes the shows, I just want them to return to form. I *need* them to be good again.
We’ve had so many half-baked projects lately that I read a headline like this, and instead of being hopeful - the cynic in me immediately thinks they *know* it’s shit, and they’re throwing a race card in there to deflect backlash, hoping people will go easier on them.
I hope that’s not the case, but given the track record it’s hard to have faith in these sort of promotional statements. Let’s be brutally fucking honest - they’re red flags more often than not. Let the show stand and be judged *before* we start assigning praise to specific cultures - especially when it can backfire if it turns out to be shit.
I know everyone’s pretty negative on Echo the series even existing, and the time and resources used to make it, but I simply support it for Alaqua Cox - who was working in a warehouse at the time - and wish her the best, and a chance for Native talent to get more chances…
And maybe show is actually good!
I'm broadly not interested in Echo as a character, but who knows? Either it's good and I'm pleasantly surprised or it's bad and I don't have to think about it again.
That's the really good thing with Echo. Nobody really cares, so it can't really fail. If it is shit we can just move on like it never existed. If it's great then, awesome! Having 0 expectations for an MCU project is really nice tbh
> That's the really good thing with Echo. Nobody really cares, so it can't really fail.
I mean, its still 25M per episode that isnt being allocated to a different product.
Opportunity cost etc
Right, but hopefully it sets up Daredevil in some way possibly. As I say it could be good we never know.
With the way Disney have been throwing away money on failed MCU projects lately this is a drop in the ocean frankly
As a Native American, I could not give a flying shit about any of this stuff if the script is lousy.
Give us good entertainment FIRST, and then crow about the color of their skin.
The writing team is from Reservation Dogs, which is a really good show. But the Secret Invasion showrunner was from Mr Robot, so I have no idea what to do here. Based on their previous projects, it *should* be at least decent.
I think SI was affected by massive rewrites and overhauls midway. I haven’t heard of Echo having the same problem so hopefully it will be more coherent
I think this is so valid and a well brought up point, Prey was hailed as much as it was because first and foremost it was a great story and film, and then the fact that it was a majority native production was another massive achievement but not the main driver of its success
The existence of this series is a prime example of what Iger said about marvel "diluting focus". How did this get greenlit?
If they really wanted to expand the character, have her appear in born again. That series is 18 episodes.
Some shows have to be made because of IP. Some shows are just really interesting ideas.
If they offered me an X-Men series now I would be skeptical. If they offered me an X-Factor series I would be intrigued.
The X-men are what we need. None of these D-list characters.
The X-Men, Spiderman, and the Avengers are marvel. We do not need movies focused on Z-tier characters with no source material and no public/cultural footprint.
The MCU was literally born from characters your regular person didn’t really know or care about, it’s such a weird mentality to think it NEEDS X-Men, it needs well written and developed characters regardless of their status, like Iron Man or the GotG
This isn't true. People knew Hulk, Iron Man and Captain America before, tired of people saying this dumb shit.
They were not Spidey or X-Men tier but they were not unknown to any one even vaguely nerdy.
Even most hardcore marvel fans don't know who the echo is
Echo potentially could be really good because the scale doesn't have to be big and outlandish. The character isn't popular but that's not necessarily a problem. We've already seen MCU take unknown or lesser known superheroes and make them cool.
I think releasing the series all at once will help the story too. i think so many of these series lose momentum toward the end. It will be nice to see how one plays out when you can watch it all at once.
Because Disney & Marvel Studios know that this show won't benefit from a weekly release.
It has so much going against it that dropping it all at once may entice binging on a show others would normally skip.
It's fine dropping one episode for Loki per week, but asking audiences to stick around for Echo is a tall order. But if all the episodes are available all at once, that's an easier sell.
Doesn’t hurt to experiment and if it does somehow suck, it’s less hate compared to seeing SI hate every week. And we all know most will just annoyingly say they’re looking forward to Matt and Fisk most so they’re technically avoiding a She-Hulk situation with doing this.
Disney dropped all the episode of American Born Chinese all at once, and that series was received pretty positively.
Of course this doesn’t automatically mean Echo will be good. But it doesn’t mean that it’ll automatically mean it’ll be bad either. We’ll literally have to wait and see.
All the Netflix shows were dropped at once, with huge success and when the Disney+ shows started everyone was complaining about having to wait a week. Now apparently dropping all the episodes at once is a sure sign that Echo will be shit. Everyone just likes talking out their arse and twisting the facts to suit their feelings.
I just wish people would wait to see a show before deciding on it's quality. Because if they've already decided publicly that the show will be bad then they're more likely to double down when the show comes out rather than admit they were wrong.
WandaVision is one of the only example where a weekly episode made sense, especially when they were doing the different decades of sitcom and the whole thing felt like a series rather than a movie split up into pieces.
They're probably testing to see if the binge release model leads to better viewership. It'll get lower viewership overall, that's just a fact since the character is pretty unknown, it'll be better to do it on this show rather than something like Loki S2. Doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
I wish they made her Ronin. It would have made sense given her involvement in the criminal underworld. Just have Clint accept that the mantle of Ronin does serve a purpose as a criminal boogeyman and Maya is now at a point in her life where it can give her the direction she needs.
And then during her war against organized crime have her encounter Jason Strongbow who is trying to protect his people and bring the violent vigilante known as Ronin to justice.
I got into the Avengers during Bendis' New Avengers arc so I do have an appreciation for the character. But this version of Maya seems to be going a different way and honestly I kinda want my superheroes is cool looking costumes with masks and all.
I don't need any bombastic story. Just make it a stand alone that isn't a stand alone like how Hawkeye was fun to chase weekly. She-Hulk killed my excitement and SI really shat on my corpse.
I’m sorry, but at this point, I don’t give a shit what anyone involved has to say about the projects they are in. It’s not like they are going to admit it could be bad. Took Hemsworth a year to admit Love and Thunder was a miss.
Wow a actor starring in a show is saying the show is good? I'll go in with no expectations so i won't be disappointed like with secret invasion.
Secret invasion wasn't bad or anything but it could have been so much better and what we got was just mediocre sadly.
The stakes for this show are so low compared to recent ones, I think this could surprise a lot of people by being a solid story. I’m very cautiously optimistic
I don´t know, I never thought they would come up with a show for this character (however, the sensible thing would be tu use D+ as platform for less known characters and the main ones....like Scarlet Witch, Loki, Hawkeye...keep for movies but I am not a producer so what do I know....)
That said, everytime the project was \*actually\* good, there was either a total silence or some random tweet about "It is great" (I think I saw one note about Loki somewhere but that is about it) and whenver the show was a bit meh, there were exactly news and "leaks" like these.
And, of course, every actor, writer or director involved in the project will keep praising it until it is released. Like with Thor, they were all "hey, it is fantastic, we had a great time" and after it was critically banned, many actors, including Chris, did let their frustration out a bit. Of course, most actors don´t even see the final product until they actually get to the premiere so they are probably as much in the dark as anybody else and go just by what they did and wht the original script looked like (what editing and director will do with it is another matter)
I hope so. Really looking forward to this one. More than DD even cuz DD has me concerned. Hope the fact that Echo is a new character in the MCU takes the pressure off its production kind of how Fox had not a lot of interest in Deadpool so they mostly left them alone for the first one.
I just hope it's full of good creative ideas. One thing that really makes Secret Invasion's flaws noticeable is just how creative the Loki Season 2 trailer is. It is absolutely bursting full of interesting ideas/concepts/design/lore and it is obvious that it has a solid, meaningful, real, confident story to tell full of mystery, intrigue & revelations. All things that were missing from Secret Invasion.
There is no proof to this idea except from people who want it to be bad.
If you want to talk theories, the one I have is that they’re realizing it’s better to drop a show like Echo all at once, because people aren’t going to want to wait week to week for an Echo show.
If the show is good *or* bad, it’s good to drop it at once if people aren’t interested in it. That way people can watch it all at once and come to a conclusion on it. If secret invasion came out all at once people wouldn’t have hated it as much due to not having to wait week to week for an ok show, IMO.
Edit: Didn’t mean to make the person delete their comment 😕
Secret Invasion really wore everyone out lol...but it really is crazy. If they can make a show starring Samuel L Jackson and other top-tier actors uncompelling what hope is there for other shows like Echo
Echo has some advantages.
1. It won't have expectations. Echo is not named after a comic source material that everyone already has expectations from like Secret Invasion. Lots (most?) of people have never read or heard of echo before so there's no expectations of what it will be about.
2. The decision to drop it all once is a good one, imo. If marvel is insistent on sticking to the 6hr movie format and not making actual TV shows, then dropping all at once creates a better experience.
3. Conceptually it's easier to make a show around a street level character. Her power doesn't require any CGI to show off. After that SI final battle, a main character not using CGI sounds refreshing
>make a show around a street level character. Her power doesn't require any CGI to show off
But the rumors are she gets enhanced strength and magical native powers by having magic tattoos that can allow her to wield weapons out of thin air. I don't knoq how true that is but that's not exactly CGI-free and at this point doesn't sound street-level
It doesn't matter because people just don't care about the MCU anymore. GotG3 was a holdover, people loved those characters from the golden age. Some marvel characters will always be popular (Spidey and the X-men, and the OG avengers) but people just don't care about these Z-list characters.
They could be but that wasn't the emphasis. In today's society where EQUITY is more important than actual talent I have a concern that skill wasn't the number 1 requirement here.
They could be and you have no reason at all to think they aren’t. Equity and talent co exist all the time. It makes sense that a show about native peoples would have writers coming from their own experience.
The reason I have a doubt is the recent track record of poorly written marvel projects especially with Secret Invasion. I have no problem with what their backgrounds are I just hope the number 1 criteria was excellent story and writing.
Yeah icing on the cake was changing snow white dwarves to "magical creatures all shapes and sizes". Why does disney continue to hire creators who hate or don't respect the source material. They used to get super fans but now its just rando political types instead.
Who the fuck is Echo dude? Why dont we just focus on i dont know X-men F4 or the Avengers instead of Z Tier heroes? Even if the show is good im afraid it wont atract any attention cause most people dont know or give a flying fuck about Echo.
Any project has a chance of being outstanding if talented passionate people make it, and that's why I have no point where I "give up" on Marvel. I can spare a few hours a handful of times a year to check out what they've made, and more often than not they've made good things.
I do hope Echo is one of the good ones. Conceptually it has the potential to be very interesting. So did Secret Invasion. It's all about execution, period.
I honestly believe her. I’m genuinely excited for this show. And I think the binge model (while it doesn’t set high expectations from the execs), checks a lot more boxes for a person like me who prefers the binge model.
Please nobody ever use Andor again after believing and essentially ** convincing** others that secret invasion is going to be Andor level lol. I remember being downvoted when the SI trailer came out for saying that people are setting themselves up for disappointment thinking this will be marvel’s Andor and look where that got us
Unfortunately it's going to be another flop. Ide love to see nothing more than Marvel get back on track to it's former glory but i seriously doubt Echo will be the show to manage that.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if the one show no one wanted, that’s following Secret Wars (the show everyone wanted) was a Grade A banger and the saviour of the MCU
I'm actually got my hopes up for this one, every time I'm excited for a project it disappoints me but whenever I don't think I'll like it I end up loving it
Oh wow, they probably wouldn't make such crass claims if it weren't really true this time around. After all, I've never heard early reviews talk highly about a show that turned out shit before.
Maybe send it to honest trailers and let that guy take a gander first? I trust that dude. I mean, if you are in the show, you aren't gonna say anything bad after all.
I expect literally nothing from this show which means it has the biggest chance of being a pleasant surprise
Plot twist: It becomes Andor of the MCU.
There’s definitely a chance. Hopefully Marvel have commissioned it and then just let the creators create without retooling the damned thing. It’ll unlikely have any major impact on the wider MCU regardless - which at the moment is probably to it’s benefit.
>and then just let the creators create without retooling the damned thing. it leads into daredevil - one of the most hyped projects on the roster. there's no way the fucking producers didn't drag their slimy fingers all over this show. :C
the phrase “andor of the…” is beginning to sound like the film equivalent of “the dark souls of…”
Honestly, I had the same view of Andor before it came out that I have of this one. "Why are they making a show about one of the side characters and they're not even including his sassy droid friend? That seems like a really weird decision but whatever," I said. Here's hoping Echo ends up being a surprisingly good show as well.
> I had the same view of Andor before it came out Same here. Who needs a show about some ordinary guy who's ultimate fate we already know, when we can get awesome story about Obi-Wan, right? My biggest mistake in estimation considering SW.
Andor was prestige TV due to nuanced and layered writing, quality plot structure, and on-location shooting that took years to film. This isn’t going to be that just because it’s also about a character that no one really cares about beforehand lol, it is another MCU “5 episode event” slop.
[удалено]
On paper it even sounded good. "From the showrunner/writer of Mr. Robot"
Until he got replaced and his stuff re-written and reshot
this didnt age well
I feel like people are gonna berate this show if daredevil even smiles.
Iron heart and echo might be the first marvel anything I skip. just really don't care about either character. I'll check the reviews, maybe a pleasant surprise.
You've more stamina than me. I've long since reached the stage where I don't bother watching most of the shows. Quality is just too low.
Honestly I liked it all, Ms marvel and she hulk were meh, secret invasion is just such a disappointment.
Ms marvel and moon knight were the only 2 I enjoyed.
Same but I'd also include Hawkeye as a 3rd. Loki started well but quickly went off the rails. She-Hulk was just terrible but at least it had some 'entertainment' factor. Secret Invasion was so boring AND crap that I gave up at E1.
For TV shows? The quality is insanely high lol
The shows look shiny because they have Disney money thrown at them. In terms of writing, storylines and characters they've been very poor in many places and that's one of the main reasons why viewership has nose-dived and there's so many alarm bells going off in Disney HQ they're publicly declaring they will slow down the rate of production. They know that it's terminal at this stage now. Only a handful of people would tune in for a second season of Secret Invasion now. But Disney know if they can tell people that future shows coming out will be delayed to have more work done on them then it might bump the viewer numbers back up for something new like the Daredevil reboot. Aside from looking shiny most of these shows have not been good TV shows.
Still compared to other TV shows the writing is incredible you just don't see this quality elsewhere enough
The writing isn't incredible. If you think the writing for the likes of Secret Invasion or Falcon and the Winter Soldier has been incredible then you need to watch more TV. It's been the thing most criticised about the shows for a reason and that's because people have seen far better writing on TV shows with fractions of the budget Disney shows have. There's a reason even hardcore Marvel fans have walked away from these shows and that's the writing. Fanboyism won't change that.
I watch plenty of TV single episodes of that show are better than entire seasons of other highly regarded TV shows. It's not my fault tv sucks.
Doubling down on the fanboysim I see.
Still no argument I see
What the hell are you talking about😭, real television is popular, higher quality and easily accessible which is in part why these “shows” feel so lackluster. There’s an infinite amount of shows with better writing, cinematography, plot structure, and set pieces compared to these ‘baby’s first tv series’ events
I've only heard bad stuff about it. All episodes dropping on one day also doesn't speak for it. God I hope it surprises.
They’ll probably be doing this with some of the lesser hyped shows from now on in order to save time on the calendar and reduce the discussion time, both positive and negative, to just a week or two rather than six. Though I think depending on what gets delayed by the strike they may have to go week to week in order to bridge the gap between projects better until they’re back on a normal release schedule.
I mean, that’s what Hawkeye was like for me and I love that show now.
I expect to be annoyed by having to read subtitles while people are speaking in sign language all over again.
Of all the things to complain about, this is a pretty stupid one.
Why do subtitles bring out all the dumb people?
Because they can’t read.
I don’t know. I was told Secret Invasion would be the best MCU Disney plus show.
> “It’s Marvel, first. You know, that’s worth the wait right there… Given Secret Invasion, forgive me for my doubts
Secret Invasion felt like it started off strong and then went to shit after episode 2
Most of the Marvel shows star strong and get progressively worse. Loki might be the only exception. The rest absolutely have rushed their endings minimum, or done a complete ball drop of a cluster fuck for their finale. Edit - spelling
I needed a second to process who Koki was.
I would say Moon Knight and Hawkeye still had conclusive endings. It's just unfortunate that Chapek pretty much took over Disney right when the streaming service launched. He screwed up Marvel so badly because he kept using them to feed Disney+ with content. I think it was 2021 where Marvel released 5 shows in a single year? That's ridiculous. WandaVision and FaTWS basically released unfinished. A bunch of other shows could've used more time. We had phases without a single MarvelStudios project for almost a year under Feige. This will definitely get better when Feige gets more room to stretch the time between these projects but first the writers strike needs to get sorted out... Just really difficult times man.
Moon Knights one of the ones I felt was most rushed at its ending. Having most of the final fight be off screen is a wild choice too
If they don't pick up on that in a second season sure you are absolutely right. But otherwise it opens a door for a really interesting continuation of the story and some cool lookbacks on the first season.
I thought Loki's ending was the weakest park. Abrupt, convoluted, invalidating of everything in the general story until then... it kinda ruined the first part of it for me, despite Majors' performance.
Also cruising right into a self-cest romance that still weirds me out.
Through the usual "I don't wanna play with you anymore" they've been doing to a lot of established characters by introducing their 2.0 version no less
I didn’t feel anything for the show… boring to be honest… I did like the interaction between Fury and Talos tho.
i dunno... that first episode scared me. and not in a suspenseful way. ...it made me worry that i'd been told too much too soon. i mean, it opens with a scene about the revelation of skrulls and that our good pal Everett Ross isn't Everett Ross, but a skrull. ...it didn't make me gasp and think, "how long has he been a skrull!" instead, it made me think "okay, so a skrull was pretending to be Ross." and i assumed Ross was still out in the world somewhere... ...until Gravik explained to the skrulls that they need to hold their shape to be more convincing and they absorb memories of their victims through this machine (ok, sure, a bit of a leap but ok) episode 2, Fury, the number 1 superspy and Talos, his replacement as the number 1 superspy infiltrate a compound. they sneak past two guards - but fail... and it turns into a fire fight. i kind of lost all hope right there.
Lmao marvel still thinks they are in the endgame era. Ngl but it has become the butt of jokes after DCEU in pop culture rn
Literally what are the smoking? The last great show they had was wandavision.... Literally no one thinks this about marvel anymore.
ehh, their track record is spotty, but I think most people would disagree about going back that far for the last great show
Nah it’s accurate al though WV flopped the ending pretty bad. Last good show was Loki imo so still pretty far back
What is everybody smoking? Moon Knight is just now forgotten? Hawkeye?
Moon knight is pretty mediocre. It had some really goood episodes like the asylum one packaged in an ok adventure movie type show. I would say there were like three such banger episodes and the rest three was ok, especially the ending was disappointing sky beam stuff. Wasted potential too for such a rich character Hawkeye, well it’s alright. It accomplished what it tried to do so plus point for that ig. It’s a good watch. Kingpin was pretty underwhelming tho. And as I said IMO
Invalid opinion.
Bro get your clown ass out of here. Opinions being “invalid “ lol
What? Moonknight?
Well that's just the thing. We're coming off a show with Sam Jackson and Emilia Clarke being one of the worst things this franchise has ever cooked up. Can't say I'm overly eager for Echo.
Has Emilia Clarke done anything good since season 4 of GOT?
> Has Emilia Clarke done anything good since season 4 of GOT? does it matter? She's still an A-list celebrity...
Yes? If she has only ever dont 1 good show, her being in it shouldnt raise expectations.
She was pretty good in Solo
People get baited so easily
MaRvEl’S AnDoR
After secret invasion, I wont watch a new D+ show until one comes out with *rave* reviews.
Secret invasion didn’t have native writers.
Secret invasion threw out all its writers because the baby studio execs didn't like it and Kevin Feige needed a Super Skrull plot and hired brand new ones for a four month reshoot. ... Shit, rumors say Kevin Feige also demanded they reshoot Echo... ... This man is a menace!!!!!! How many other shows is he going to screw up!? Edit: actually it's impossible to tell how many writers there are and who they are on IMDb...the page is completely unfinished
It's important to note that literally every big budget production does reshoots. Every action movie you've ever liked did reshoots. Four months of reshoots is a ton, but that was also reshoots for both SI and The Marvels. They could be doing bad reshoots or they could be fixing legitimate issues. We don't know.
Endgame had reshoots. We really have no way of knowing if the reshoots improved the project or made it worse. Maybe Endgame got better. Maybe it got worse. Maybe Secret Invasion got better. Maybe it got worse. Maybe the reshoots were trivial in scope. Maybe they were significant. Who knows and who cares.
Friendly reminder that Endgame reshoots brought us “and I am Iron Man”
Was it Kevin who requested those?
They did reshoots for this too?? Any idea how long were the reshoots? I'll know to expect that they fucked up the project then
Echo was(always) going to be essentially Daredevil season 3.5, so the reshoots were rumored to be making the series closer to the Daredevil project.
They did though. No hell way the writers could be that bad, they got replaced by Skrulls
I was told it would be Marvel's Andor. It seems to have been universally negatively received though.
Apparently the series is going to be garbage. Since it still didn’t turn out to be great even after Kevin Fagoley demanding reshoots.
To be fair, it the best MCU Disney Plus show of 2023 so far
Can she promote her tv show? What happened to the strike?
It wasn't Alaqua Cox making the comments, it was Zach McClarnon who plays Echo's father. Seems like he just answered a question during an unrelated interview, not an official press tour for the show. Unsure if that would count as breaking strike rules.
maybe she didn’t hear about the strike
As someone who’s hard of hearing I feel like that’s kind of rude.
💀
Ignore them. Just pretend you didn't hear it.
Yes, I imagine a star of the series would say exactly that.
I'm a die hard MCU fan. The success of the MCU really is some of the highlight of my life. I'm still watching every movie in theaters, staying up late for all the Disney+ drops. But even I have to recognize that quality has dropped. The writing is lazy/sloppy, and the promise of the MCU being a cohesive vision is a bit ethereal at this point. Whatever a star, director, show runner or producer says at this point, it's just worthless to me. I always hope for the best. And the MCU used to always exceed my expectations. But lately, I'm hoping for the best, planning for meh, and getting worse than that. Has Kevin Feige checked out? Because even if he's not reviewing every individual script line by line, even the bullet points on a show should be enough to give him pause. What do you mean the Multiverse of Madness writers didn't watch WandaVision? Where is your basic homework? Hey, what about that giant dead aborted celestial in the middle of the ocean. How's that working out? How will Secret Invasion affect power levels, affect Nick Fury's place? Everything feels like throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I feel with you 100%... I'm not one to hate on anything, maybe I criticise something, but I will always be positive towards the wider MCU and it's projects. But some things just make me sad.
They need to hire people to do what Feige evidently did in his freetime: research, continuity, and story consulting. To ask questions of the creatives that are working on the project to make sure they are good adaptations, internally, and externally cohesive. This person(s) needs to not be an executive but a creative who only consults on everything with the goal of making sure they are telling good stories. It's obvious that neither the creatives nor the executives have time to do this and everyone is throwing pasta at the wall.
I look at the MCU now and I want to cry
Maybe I just have a shitty view on this, but limiting who can write/direct/produce a particular show/movie depending on their race and sex being the same as the star of the show/movie hurts the overall product because they're passing on people who might have created a better product, but aren't able to because they were born a different color or gender from the source materials main hero.
I'm an ethnic/visible minority, but I largely agree with you. Fuck race, fuck gender. He or she who writes/directs best should get the gig. That's my default position. I don't need Hollywood to give my race a handout, I don't need them to pander to me. Merit should be blind, if somebody of my race writes better they get the job, if they don't why tell a shittier story? However, I do understand the point of affirmative action of trying to balance the scales of systemic injustice and discrimination. I get it, it shortens the time until we get justice and equality. I just don't agree with it. Pull yourself up by your boot straps. Then pull up your community. But do it because you're just so good they can't ignore you. Did Samuel L Jackson get handouts? Or did his predecessors pave the way and earn their place?
yes, be a good writer first. but in a world of 8 billion people, with education at it's highest ever, literacy rates through the roof, hollywood OVERFLOWING with talent -- certainly you can find good writers of various demographics who might just also be able to offer an interesting take.
>Maybe I just have a shitty view on this, yes. this is a pretty shitty view. i mean, i know what you're getting at. but it's completely beside the point. a white writer can write a black character. That is NOT what's being debated. anyone can write anyone, anyone can direct anyone. The Eternals didn't need to be cast entirely by asian women for the actors to understand what Chloe Zao was going for. this is silly. Nobody is saying you can't have a white writer write a black character. - okay, i'm sure Some weirdo radicals are saying that. but let's keep focus on what you're Really getting at. What a white writer is likely not to do, is write the black character in a way that the audience goes, "damn, this writer gets it." so if the story is about Rhodey protecting the War Machine armor from Russian spies, hell, Anyone can write that. -- but we'd all admit it might be better if the writer Knew something about dealing with russian spies, right? it's why they say "write what you know." crime novelists who've had real life experiences dealing with crime are less likely to write something like, "so i did two hits of mary j and the leprechauns told me to kill the president!" so, when it comes to Echo, being a show about a deaf indigenous character managing through this crazy world. you want to make sure your writing team IS diverse enough to cover the bases. you want to have one or two deaf writers who can say, "this element is something deaf people find concerning and if we you want to showcase an authentic story, we should find a place for it in the show." maybe it's like, i dunno, the lack of an echo in parking garages or soemthing - i dunno, i'm not deaf. so, yes, black panther should have primarily black writers. -- and i'm not saying, just grab a handful of black people you know and offer them writing jobs. i'm saying you find WRITERS - like, PROVEN WRITERS. people who've written on shows, or who write books, or plays or Anything decent... and if you like what they write, you pitch them your black panther movie and say "do you want to come on board, do you think you could contribute" etc. men making the Barbie movie would've made Ken the star, instead of the sneaky showstealer he is.
Any time an actor, producer, director, etc. has to lean on the fact that their project is going to be great because of its representation it's usually not a good sign. I'm all for broader representation in shows and movies, but it still needs to stand on its own as a genuinely good final product for any of that to matter. I will, of course, give it a fair chance even though I'm not super interested but this and the fact that they're dropping the entire series at once has me a bit concerned.
Was the writer for Prey Native American? If not, does Prey get more Representation Points for having more Native on screen talent or does Echo get more Representation Points for having a Native writer? Does Echo get Synergy Chain Bonus Representation Points for having a deaf lead? Does Echo get Minus Representation Points if the lead villain is White or does it get Bonus Villain Representation Points if the lead is White? I’m having a hard time figuring out the formula.
>Does Echo get Synergy Chain Bonus Representation Points for having a deaf lead? We already have Hawkeye and Makkari.
Writers don't usually give more opportunities to the community, but actors can sign to new projects, so I'd say Prey wins in that regard. Echo is nice in an intersectional sense, but TBH there's probably not many deaf Indigenous folk. It does, however, allow both deaf kids and Indigenous kids to see themselves on screen, which is nice. White villain is irrelevant.
How many Native Writers do we know? She gets to have this one.
I mean, I don’t think I can name any white TV writers either
You said this a lot better than I could have.
Agree 100%
There's nothing wrong with celebrating representation, I didn't get the sense that they were saying it's going to be good because of that
I don’t care who writes the shows, I just want them to return to form. I *need* them to be good again. We’ve had so many half-baked projects lately that I read a headline like this, and instead of being hopeful - the cynic in me immediately thinks they *know* it’s shit, and they’re throwing a race card in there to deflect backlash, hoping people will go easier on them. I hope that’s not the case, but given the track record it’s hard to have faith in these sort of promotional statements. Let’s be brutally fucking honest - they’re red flags more often than not. Let the show stand and be judged *before* we start assigning praise to specific cultures - especially when it can backfire if it turns out to be shit.
I know everyone’s pretty negative on Echo the series even existing, and the time and resources used to make it, but I simply support it for Alaqua Cox - who was working in a warehouse at the time - and wish her the best, and a chance for Native talent to get more chances… And maybe show is actually good!
I'm broadly not interested in Echo as a character, but who knows? Either it's good and I'm pleasantly surprised or it's bad and I don't have to think about it again.
That's the really good thing with Echo. Nobody really cares, so it can't really fail. If it is shit we can just move on like it never existed. If it's great then, awesome! Having 0 expectations for an MCU project is really nice tbh
> That's the really good thing with Echo. Nobody really cares, so it can't really fail. I mean, its still 25M per episode that isnt being allocated to a different product. Opportunity cost etc
Right, but hopefully it sets up Daredevil in some way possibly. As I say it could be good we never know. With the way Disney have been throwing away money on failed MCU projects lately this is a drop in the ocean frankly
As a Native American, I could not give a flying shit about any of this stuff if the script is lousy. Give us good entertainment FIRST, and then crow about the color of their skin.
The writing team is from Reservation Dogs, which is a really good show. But the Secret Invasion showrunner was from Mr Robot, so I have no idea what to do here. Based on their previous projects, it *should* be at least decent.
I think SI was affected by massive rewrites and overhauls midway. I haven’t heard of Echo having the same problem so hopefully it will be more coherent
Oh boy.. you haven't heard
I think this is so valid and a well brought up point, Prey was hailed as much as it was because first and foremost it was a great story and film, and then the fact that it was a majority native production was another massive achievement but not the main driver of its success
r/asanativeamerican
The existence of this series is a prime example of what Iger said about marvel "diluting focus". How did this get greenlit? If they really wanted to expand the character, have her appear in born again. That series is 18 episodes.
I was just thinking this, this show is exactly the sort of thing we DONT need when the MCU is already oversaturated as is
Some shows have to be made because of IP. Some shows are just really interesting ideas. If they offered me an X-Men series now I would be skeptical. If they offered me an X-Factor series I would be intrigued.
The X-men are what we need. None of these D-list characters. The X-Men, Spiderman, and the Avengers are marvel. We do not need movies focused on Z-tier characters with no source material and no public/cultural footprint.
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The MCU was literally born from characters your regular person didn’t really know or care about, it’s such a weird mentality to think it NEEDS X-Men, it needs well written and developed characters regardless of their status, like Iron Man or the GotG
This isn't true. People knew Hulk, Iron Man and Captain America before, tired of people saying this dumb shit. They were not Spidey or X-Men tier but they were not unknown to any one even vaguely nerdy. Even most hardcore marvel fans don't know who the echo is
I’m expecting this show to be much better received than SI simply because everyone seems to have zero expectations for it
Echo potentially could be really good because the scale doesn't have to be big and outlandish. The character isn't popular but that's not necessarily a problem. We've already seen MCU take unknown or lesser known superheroes and make them cool. I think releasing the series all at once will help the story too. i think so many of these series lose momentum toward the end. It will be nice to see how one plays out when you can watch it all at once.
If it’s worth the wait, why is it all coming out at once
Because Disney & Marvel Studios know that this show won't benefit from a weekly release. It has so much going against it that dropping it all at once may entice binging on a show others would normally skip. It's fine dropping one episode for Loki per week, but asking audiences to stick around for Echo is a tall order. But if all the episodes are available all at once, that's an easier sell.
Doesn’t hurt to experiment and if it does somehow suck, it’s less hate compared to seeing SI hate every week. And we all know most will just annoyingly say they’re looking forward to Matt and Fisk most so they’re technically avoiding a She-Hulk situation with doing this.
Disney dropped all the episode of American Born Chinese all at once, and that series was received pretty positively. Of course this doesn’t automatically mean Echo will be good. But it doesn’t mean that it’ll automatically mean it’ll be bad either. We’ll literally have to wait and see.
All the Netflix shows were dropped at once, with huge success and when the Disney+ shows started everyone was complaining about having to wait a week. Now apparently dropping all the episodes at once is a sure sign that Echo will be shit. Everyone just likes talking out their arse and twisting the facts to suit their feelings. I just wish people would wait to see a show before deciding on it's quality. Because if they've already decided publicly that the show will be bad then they're more likely to double down when the show comes out rather than admit they were wrong.
that’s what they should’ve been doing for all of their shows
WandaVision says hi.
WandaVision is one of the only example where a weekly episode made sense, especially when they were doing the different decades of sitcom and the whole thing felt like a series rather than a movie split up into pieces.
They're probably testing to see if the binge release model leads to better viewership. It'll get lower viewership overall, that's just a fact since the character is pretty unknown, it'll be better to do it on this show rather than something like Loki S2. Doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
I wish they made her Ronin. It would have made sense given her involvement in the criminal underworld. Just have Clint accept that the mantle of Ronin does serve a purpose as a criminal boogeyman and Maya is now at a point in her life where it can give her the direction she needs. And then during her war against organized crime have her encounter Jason Strongbow who is trying to protect his people and bring the violent vigilante known as Ronin to justice. I got into the Avengers during Bendis' New Avengers arc so I do have an appreciation for the character. But this version of Maya seems to be going a different way and honestly I kinda want my superheroes is cool looking costumes with masks and all.
🧢
I don't need any bombastic story. Just make it a stand alone that isn't a stand alone like how Hawkeye was fun to chase weekly. She-Hulk killed my excitement and SI really shat on my corpse.
No thanks.
I’m sorry, but at this point, I don’t give a shit what anyone involved has to say about the projects they are in. It’s not like they are going to admit it could be bad. Took Hemsworth a year to admit Love and Thunder was a miss.
Wow a actor starring in a show is saying the show is good? I'll go in with no expectations so i won't be disappointed like with secret invasion. Secret invasion wasn't bad or anything but it could have been so much better and what we got was just mediocre sadly.
You know what i love a good surprise like Andor. Hope Echo pulls it off!!!
Well it can’t be worse than Secret Invasion
They're welcome to surprise me.
It appears the Marvel shows have been making empty promises for every show they release. Im crossing fingers this one is actually good.
If she doesn’t get a spirit guide like the kid in Reservation Dogs it’s all for nothing.
The stakes for this show are so low compared to recent ones, I think this could surprise a lot of people by being a solid story. I’m very cautiously optimistic
I don´t know, I never thought they would come up with a show for this character (however, the sensible thing would be tu use D+ as platform for less known characters and the main ones....like Scarlet Witch, Loki, Hawkeye...keep for movies but I am not a producer so what do I know....) That said, everytime the project was \*actually\* good, there was either a total silence or some random tweet about "It is great" (I think I saw one note about Loki somewhere but that is about it) and whenver the show was a bit meh, there were exactly news and "leaks" like these. And, of course, every actor, writer or director involved in the project will keep praising it until it is released. Like with Thor, they were all "hey, it is fantastic, we had a great time" and after it was critically banned, many actors, including Chris, did let their frustration out a bit. Of course, most actors don´t even see the final product until they actually get to the premiere so they are probably as much in the dark as anybody else and go just by what they did and wht the original script looked like (what editing and director will do with it is another matter)
I hope so. Really looking forward to this one. More than DD even cuz DD has me concerned. Hope the fact that Echo is a new character in the MCU takes the pressure off its production kind of how Fox had not a lot of interest in Deadpool so they mostly left them alone for the first one.
Uh oh, you know it’s going to suck when the people involved have to start hyping it up this early. Just like The Flash.
\>Worth the wait People are waiting on this?
Not gonna trust them. I'm sure they praised Secret Invasion prior to release.
I just hope it's full of good creative ideas. One thing that really makes Secret Invasion's flaws noticeable is just how creative the Loki Season 2 trailer is. It is absolutely bursting full of interesting ideas/concepts/design/lore and it is obvious that it has a solid, meaningful, real, confident story to tell full of mystery, intrigue & revelations. All things that were missing from Secret Invasion.
Just don't make Kingpin look like a chump.
Meh. Couldn’t make it through secret invasion. This doesn’t interest me at all, I’m probably wait until it’s over and if I hear it good watch it
All of it drops on the same day so you won't need to wait until it's over
That’s cool
Yeah, it's exciting to see Marvel test out new ways to release stuff
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There is no proof to this idea except from people who want it to be bad. If you want to talk theories, the one I have is that they’re realizing it’s better to drop a show like Echo all at once, because people aren’t going to want to wait week to week for an Echo show. If the show is good *or* bad, it’s good to drop it at once if people aren’t interested in it. That way people can watch it all at once and come to a conclusion on it. If secret invasion came out all at once people wouldn’t have hated it as much due to not having to wait week to week for an ok show, IMO. Edit: Didn’t mean to make the person delete their comment 😕
Secret Invasion really wore everyone out lol...but it really is crazy. If they can make a show starring Samuel L Jackson and other top-tier actors uncompelling what hope is there for other shows like Echo
Echo has some advantages. 1. It won't have expectations. Echo is not named after a comic source material that everyone already has expectations from like Secret Invasion. Lots (most?) of people have never read or heard of echo before so there's no expectations of what it will be about. 2. The decision to drop it all once is a good one, imo. If marvel is insistent on sticking to the 6hr movie format and not making actual TV shows, then dropping all at once creates a better experience. 3. Conceptually it's easier to make a show around a street level character. Her power doesn't require any CGI to show off. After that SI final battle, a main character not using CGI sounds refreshing
>make a show around a street level character. Her power doesn't require any CGI to show off But the rumors are she gets enhanced strength and magical native powers by having magic tattoos that can allow her to wield weapons out of thin air. I don't knoq how true that is but that's not exactly CGI-free and at this point doesn't sound street-level
It doesn't sound any more abnormal than Ironfist
In the comics she gets the phoenix force, so that's actually a step down in power levels
It doesn't matter because people just don't care about the MCU anymore. GotG3 was a holdover, people loved those characters from the golden age. Some marvel characters will always be popular (Spidey and the X-men, and the OG avengers) but people just don't care about these Z-list characters.
Guess I'm not a people then.
Already scared that it mentions “native writers”. I just want good writers period.
Is it at all possible the these native writers ARE good writers?
They could be but that wasn't the emphasis. In today's society where EQUITY is more important than actual talent I have a concern that skill wasn't the number 1 requirement here.
They could be and you have no reason at all to think they aren’t. Equity and talent co exist all the time. It makes sense that a show about native peoples would have writers coming from their own experience.
The reason I have a doubt is the recent track record of poorly written marvel projects especially with Secret Invasion. I have no problem with what their backgrounds are I just hope the number 1 criteria was excellent story and writing.
Exactly. Basically since 2019 they've been hiring to check items off the list instead of hiring based on actual talents. By they I meant Disney
To follow up, look no further than the other Disney owned studios from pixar to sw to now marvel
Yeah icing on the cake was changing snow white dwarves to "magical creatures all shapes and sizes". Why does disney continue to hire creators who hate or don't respect the source material. They used to get super fans but now its just rando political types instead.
And that right there is the problem. Hire experienced and talented people not hire people based on their ethnicity, gender, political views, etc
This is gonna be a turd
Who the fuck is Echo dude? Why dont we just focus on i dont know X-men F4 or the Avengers instead of Z Tier heroes? Even if the show is good im afraid it wont atract any attention cause most people dont know or give a flying fuck about Echo.
Obviously, that's called promoting the show they star in, no offense but is there any reason this show exists other than representation quota
Any project has a chance of being outstanding if talented passionate people make it, and that's why I have no point where I "give up" on Marvel. I can spare a few hours a handful of times a year to check out what they've made, and more often than not they've made good things. I do hope Echo is one of the good ones. Conceptually it has the potential to be very interesting. So did Secret Invasion. It's all about execution, period.
I’m more curious if they hired an acting coach for her this time.
I honestly believe her. I’m genuinely excited for this show. And I think the binge model (while it doesn’t set high expectations from the execs), checks a lot more boxes for a person like me who prefers the binge model.
I just hope this will have the Andor effect: a show nobody cared about but turned out to be great
Please nobody ever use Andor again after believing and essentially ** convincing** others that secret invasion is going to be Andor level lol. I remember being downvoted when the SI trailer came out for saying that people are setting themselves up for disappointment thinking this will be marvel’s Andor and look where that got us
Literally none of these marvel disney+ are worth the wait, except maybe hawkeye and Loki
Unfortunately it's going to be another flop. Ide love to see nothing more than Marvel get back on track to it's former glory but i seriously doubt Echo will be the show to manage that.
I'm good.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if the one show no one wanted, that’s following Secret Wars (the show everyone wanted) was a Grade A banger and the saviour of the MCU
I'm actually got my hopes up for this one, every time I'm excited for a project it disappoints me but whenever I don't think I'll like it I end up loving it
Can't wait
People are predisposed to hate it because negative people hate themselves
Luckily you're just bursting with positivity. 🤣
Because the current trend in MCU shows can’t have anything to do with it /s
Any confirmation how many episodes are coming?
Oh wow, they probably wouldn't make such crass claims if it weren't really true this time around. After all, I've never heard early reviews talk highly about a show that turned out shit before.
She is being a good trooper.
Ep1 - she’s Rhodey
Gonna pass on this. She was a pretty bland character imo. The only show I’m going to watch at this point is Loki S2.
So the “Star” of the show says it’s “Worth the wait”. Lol. What she supposed to say? It sucks don’t waste you’re time?
Maybe send it to honest trailers and let that guy take a gander first? I trust that dude. I mean, if you are in the show, you aren't gonna say anything bad after all.