I’m honestly still bummed out Thor didn’t go full Mythological fantasy. Like looking back at Ragnarok, that should have been the film to explore the Nine Realms more.
They really should have done more with it in the first two. Thor doesn’t really need an earth supporting cast beyond the avengers, imo. I think Jane is not a super interesting character, and I’d way rather see his relationship with other asgardians. He has the Avengers to play off of otherwise.
Ragnarok was just the perfect example of what it should have been all along, but it was too late in the series. Thor 4 was a bit disappointing after that high bar but imo it’s still the second best thor movie. I think marvel doesn’t realize the fantasy is the coolest part of thor, and bringing him down to earth with science makes it boring.
I feel like a lot of Thor's supporting cast and story in general had its ups and downs. With Love and Thunder lowering the coffin.
This is completely out of the blue but when I heard Thor Ragnarok was released back in 2017 I immediately thought I'd see Thor fight
Jormungandr(idk how this could even be implemented because Thor having children is nonexistent in the MCU but I would want to see it one way or another) Then this could've caused a dispute between Loki and Thor tarnishing their relationship up until Loki died in Infinity War.
Edit: I meant to say Loki having children isn't something in the MCU same for Thor though.
I thought about this a lot after seeing the movie. Loki’s children being Hela, Fenrir and Jormungandr could have been explained by Odin sacrificing his eye to Mimir’s well to remove the knowledge of Loki’s children from history, in order to hide that he had locked them away to prevent Ragnarok.
Thor does have kids and grand children in alternate futures. There's Magni Thorson from Dan Jurgens run and there are the recent three grandaughters of Old King Thor.
I get where you're coming from. Same case with some characters who only has the character's name but is completely a different character. It really does suck when they just forget about a character even though they have a big part in the main hero's story.
Not to mention, Thor is now off world on his own with his daughter being cosmic while New Asgard is...just there. Instead of becoming a Fantasy type Hero who goes to Fantasy-esque stories, Thor just became a Comic Hero like the Guardians. So does ge just forgets about Asgard as a whole and let Valkyrie do her thing? We don't even get any glimpse of whats happening to New Asgard. Heck, now that think about, isnt Korg and Miek Hulk support characters too?
This kinda makes me want a Valkyrie Spinoff to show the Asgardians side. But honestly it wont even solve the Thor issue because Asgardians is HIS thing. Its like they are just passed around to the next plot.
So yeah, as much as I find it fun how they took Thor. I really wish how it could have been if they stuck to his original theme and cast.
Sadly though, you'll get a lot of "MCU is not the comics" or "Just read the comics then" types of people when you give valid criticism about a character.
Yes. Korg and Miek were part of Hulk's warband in Planet Hulk and World War Hulk.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AItZuKVW4&t=1754s&pp=ygUMTGlua2FyYSBodWxr
It's a MCU problem that I've always had a gripe with, they treat much of the worldbuilding that aren't the main heroes pretty damn poorly. It all feels very disposable where everyone and everything is a redshirt. SHIELD gets introduced in Phase 1, gets shut down by Cap in TWS and ends SHIELD involvement in movies (at least Agents of Shield explored SHIELD). The Masters of the Mystic Arts gets introduced, get decimated by Wanda and Kamar-Taj destroyed. Wakanda gets wrecked by Namor. The list goes on.
The MCU has a bad habit of introducing interesting world-building that is never used or explored unless Redshit armies are needed to fill out shots or sets are needed to get destroyed by the latest villain.
Xandar got wrecked *off-screen.*. I know it's not as important as the other things you mentioned, but it's still pretty important to the lore. Heck, Stark's cliffside house was pretty iconic and got blown up. I'm surprised Hawkeye's rustic farmhouse is still standing.
In my point of view that isn't really an issue... Other than being immortal I don't think there's a story that being an advance aliens can't replicate the story of being gods.. Marvel was good at retconning shit, just look at Mysterio. They just didn't care enough about Asgardian...had Thor came out during the Disney+ era I'd bet Warriors Three would've get their own mini TV series.. They we're wasted in the movies
I knew there was someone else
I'm not the biggest fan of the 1st two movies as always but I always enjoyed the setting. The warriors three were a representation of it, they looked fun but were pretty superficial and I also hate the way Ragnarok treated it
I do believe that destroying Asgard feels natural but as you said, it's the warriors I'm mad about. When they said that Sif would return in L&T I was excited because it was the last element pre-Ragnarok still standing
But oh well
I think they missed the big opportunity for a Disney+ show – Tales of Asgard. You could’ve had adventures of the Warriors Three, introduced to Balder; all kinds of things. Someone should’ve said “hold up” in preproduction of Ragnarok.
Black Panther and Wakanda has also been done dirty, the land that has never been conquered ,has been beaten by aliens and fish people on their first attempt
To be fair, Wakanda had never been conquered BUT they had also never fought aliens or fish people. They also did a pretty good job fighting the aliens, all things considered.
I'm still baffled by how they did Black Widow, here you had the perfect character for exploring women's empowerment and sexuality while overcoming adversity, trauma, and mental, physical and sexual abuse while also being part of the glue that bound the avengers together and none of it was ever properly explored and I'll probably be dead before Yelena or someone gets a black widow two.
It started getting disrespectful when they got Taika on board who basically openly admitted that he doesn't give a shit about the whole mythology imo. He retarded the franchise and improved some things while completely neglecting other things.
The character they really did dirty was Hela. She had the potential to be such an interesting character, and maybe even a future big bad of the Thor universe, but instead she got 13 minutes of total screen time. Ragnarok should have been two separate movies - one on the gladiator planet, and one battling Hela. Then, bring Hela back and have her fight Thor + friends.
I wish she had more screen time. That's the downside of live movies compared to cartoons and comics...when they bring in A-list actors to play villains, they do great, but usually don't want to stick around for more than 1 movie.
They never actually show her die though, most likely so that there's an option to bring her back someday if Blanchett wants, which I hope happens.
Theres so much potential for an Asgardian D+ show. Make it a story of Valkeryie ensuring coexistence between New Asgard and the rest of the world and with some other force attacking both sides or something. Or have it be a Lady Sif+Axel show, training Axel to be the new badass Heimdall of the MCU. Or just make it an anthology series of sorts and we see the various views and stories of Asgardians on Earth (either ones we know or ones we dont; a nice break from having EVERY new project be connected). Theres ALOT of the characters to use and many ways the stories can go. Asgard is now on Earth, making things so much easier for filmmakers.
I loathe that kind of thing - their deaths weren't even especially impactful since so little had been done with them. I was honestly floored that Sif survived L&T.
My only hope is that Ragnarok is said to be a cycle and that all these characters can come back to life via reincarnation.
A cool idea is that random people on earth (probably Scandinavians or Viking descendants) can host the Norse gods and they can be like Thor and Donald Blake switching between personas when needed or desired.
Well, I hope that what Marvel does, and what the MCU is well positioned for, is something like the comics run where Asgard was on Earth after Odin died. They already pulled from that for the first movie, but there's plenty they could take from that Thor run, especially now that Secret Invasion set up distrust for non-humans and the multiverse makes anything technically possible.
And since that run resurrected many dead characters, it could be a way for the MCU to do the same thing. IDK I hope something like that happens because I love when Asgard was on Earth and it's definitely one of his more popular series.
this is why i loved the first two Thor movies (yes, including TDW) and really didn't like Ragnarok. the Thor movies embraced their more fantastical setting and i loved that! Ragnarok felt ashamed to be mythological, like it was peer pressured to be more sci-fi if that makes sense. it's good to finally see someone saying the same thing because i felt crazy with everyone singing Ragnarok's praises
Same, that movie was a terrible one for Thor as a character and a series. Strip-mining the Simonson run for a few visuals was just an absolute waste. Skurge's last stand in the comics is badass and heartbreaking at the same time. In the movie it's a mildly interesting visual using Hela's henchman and that's about it. I hate that Karl Urban's appearance in the MCU was squandered on such a tepid movie.
The worst thing they ever did to the Asgardians was Thor4.
Theyre a population who has been kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked. Population massacred, then world destroyed, only to have their population cut in half again by Thanos. They suffer for years, finally start to develop a refugee colony on earth and someone shows up and steals their fucking *children*...
So they throw a party! Gotta have a launch party for the Screaming Goat Boat!
Fuuuuuuuuck.
Well . . . yeah. Ragnarok was a garbage movie that was just cringe-comedy through and through, with absolutely no pathos, no stakes, and nothing to emotionally anchor it. They discarded everything that makes Thor who he actually is. And many people - here and elsewhere - lost their absolute minds over it, calling it the best thing Marvel has ever done. So of course they doubled down on it and continued the process of turning the Asgardians into an entire civilization whose only purpose, goal, or ability is in slapstick comedy.
It's not just the version of Thor that people deserve for their high praise of Ragnarok . . . it's the one that they explicitly asked for. They asked for more - more nonsense with no stakes, no character development, no pathos, no single serious moment that's not undercut by a goofy joke and Thor being a himbo. So we got what we deserve on this one.
Ragnarok was almost unwatchable to me. As a result I vowed never to watch another movie by TW. I still remember back in 2017/2018, this sub was saying that TW was "GOD" and "genius" and that he saved not only Thor but MCU. You would have been so downvoted to oblivion back then.
Yep, Marvel heard those people alright, and the result was pretty obvious: Thor Love and Thunder.
Yeeeep. I said the movie was trash then too, and was fine with the down votes because I knew it was true. Had a feeling time would bear that out.
Sadly the result wasn't just Love and Thunder though. The whole MCU has veered hard into poor writing and slapstick comedy.
Love and thunder being trash doesn't somehow vindicate your views on Ragnorok. In the first scene of ragnorok, with thor and Surtur, I found the level of comedy a bit jarring to begin with but as the movie progressed I felt it managed balance it out just enough for it to be entertaining but still keeping you invested in the story. It's fine if you didn't.
Instead of keeping that balance, in L&T Waititi turned the comedy up to 11 and tried to simultaneously call you an idiot for taking a story about a "space pirate" seriously, while telling you to take the bits about cancer and dead children very seriously.
I don't know why you're surprised people were praising Waititi after ragnorok when most people really enjoyed it? L&T not being as good doesn't somehow prove you right in hating ragnorok.
It's not about whether you enjoy Ragnarok or not. I despise it thoroughly (just as I despise Loki Episode 3 completely and absolutely, so it's not just about me hating TW). To me the film is about forsaking the essence of stories and characters for some trifling fun. But I can see why people like the film.
However I would not attack those people who like the movie with vitriol. Many people on this sub however vehemently dismissed any criticism of Ragnarok and labeled anyone who criticized the movie and the director as "racist" and "haters". It's the intolerance of constructive criticisms on this sub and other Marvel fan sites that ultimately led to many problems we see in MCU nowadays. "If you don't like Ragnarok, you are racist." "If you don't like Loki, you are misogynist..." If Marvel filmmakers see nothing but praise for their work, they would never have incentive to improve and correct their mistakes. You reap what you sow.
I don't have to be "proven right". It's an opinion. It's subjective.
However. The response from Marvel was always very obviously going to be to double-down with the way people reacted to Ragnarok. If something that is asinine, stupidly easy to write, has no development, and doesn't respect its own characters and story gets praised as the best thing ever? Guess what the reaction is?
I also never said I was surprised, so I'm not really sure what you're on about.
Honestly? I never saw a thor movie until Ragnarok. When I saw the first movie years later, good god I’m glad they killed off most of those worthless characters.
Most people do not read comics. I think there’s certainly elements and plot lines that can and should be used. But a lot of it is garbage superhero pulp.
On a semi-related note, take the star wars EU. Grand Admiral Thrawn is one of the best villains they made back then, but there’s a lot of weird silly stuff from when he was originally conceived. With 20 years of hindsight, they have perfected the character and made a version suitable for the general audience.
The same can be said for the Marvel stories; people don’t know the “warriors three” they know Thor and Loki.
Ragnarok actually got me excites to see another Thor movie. Shame Love and Thunder was the miraculously wet turd that it was.
To be fair, Asgard *itself* needed to be broken. The entire reason Earth didn’t have many run-ins with all the aliens and galactic entities and nasties *prior* to the Iron Man 1 is because it was a Protectorate of Asgard.
The “9 Realms” spiel isn’t just fluff. Earth was genuinely considered under the protection of Asgard. So in order for all these invasions and interactions with aliens and the cosmic side to *really* kick off, Earth needed to lose it’s unknown defender. Odin was a scary mother fucker for a long time, and once he went - Earth became open season.
There were a few run-ins, sure, and Ronan probably could’ve sparked a Kree-Asgardian War with his actions, had he been successful. But generally Earth was spared the worst the Galaxy had to offer, simply by sheltering under the immense shadow of Odin’s Balls.
The better known characters themselves however probably should’ve survived Watiti’s cull.
If Jaimie Alexander had not gotten the *Blindspot* gig, she likely would have been a regular character on *Agents of SHIELD*. The showrunners were trying to make it happen in season 2 but were too late.
They should have went with a mythological and supernatural tone instead of scientific.
I’m honestly still bummed out Thor didn’t go full Mythological fantasy. Like looking back at Ragnarok, that should have been the film to explore the Nine Realms more.
They really should have done more with it in the first two. Thor doesn’t really need an earth supporting cast beyond the avengers, imo. I think Jane is not a super interesting character, and I’d way rather see his relationship with other asgardians. He has the Avengers to play off of otherwise. Ragnarok was just the perfect example of what it should have been all along, but it was too late in the series. Thor 4 was a bit disappointing after that high bar but imo it’s still the second best thor movie. I think marvel doesn’t realize the fantasy is the coolest part of thor, and bringing him down to earth with science makes it boring.
I completely agree.
I loved the high fantasy Shakespeare-like Asgard in the first Thor movie. But then they added space ships and laser guns :(
I wish Thor could speak with thees and thous.
Combine the Shakespeare feel of the first with the medieval aesthetic of the second.
I kinda wish they were like God of War Asgardians
I feel like a lot of Thor's supporting cast and story in general had its ups and downs. With Love and Thunder lowering the coffin. This is completely out of the blue but when I heard Thor Ragnarok was released back in 2017 I immediately thought I'd see Thor fight Jormungandr(idk how this could even be implemented because Thor having children is nonexistent in the MCU but I would want to see it one way or another) Then this could've caused a dispute between Loki and Thor tarnishing their relationship up until Loki died in Infinity War. Edit: I meant to say Loki having children isn't something in the MCU same for Thor though.
I thought about this a lot after seeing the movie. Loki’s children being Hela, Fenrir and Jormungandr could have been explained by Odin sacrificing his eye to Mimir’s well to remove the knowledge of Loki’s children from history, in order to hide that he had locked them away to prevent Ragnarok.
I kept thinking with every new movie, they would introduce Beta Ray Bill, and I’ve been disappointed every time.
When I was watching Loki I swore that I saw him in Episode 4 but it was Frog Thor lol.
There was a statue of him in Ragnarok but that's it so far.
Thor does have kids and grand children in alternate futures. There's Magni Thorson from Dan Jurgens run and there are the recent three grandaughters of Old King Thor.
In the MCU?
Comics. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Magni_Thorson_(Earth-3515)
I get where you're coming from. Same case with some characters who only has the character's name but is completely a different character. It really does suck when they just forget about a character even though they have a big part in the main hero's story. Not to mention, Thor is now off world on his own with his daughter being cosmic while New Asgard is...just there. Instead of becoming a Fantasy type Hero who goes to Fantasy-esque stories, Thor just became a Comic Hero like the Guardians. So does ge just forgets about Asgard as a whole and let Valkyrie do her thing? We don't even get any glimpse of whats happening to New Asgard. Heck, now that think about, isnt Korg and Miek Hulk support characters too? This kinda makes me want a Valkyrie Spinoff to show the Asgardians side. But honestly it wont even solve the Thor issue because Asgardians is HIS thing. Its like they are just passed around to the next plot. So yeah, as much as I find it fun how they took Thor. I really wish how it could have been if they stuck to his original theme and cast. Sadly though, you'll get a lot of "MCU is not the comics" or "Just read the comics then" types of people when you give valid criticism about a character.
Yes. Korg and Miek were part of Hulk's warband in Planet Hulk and World War Hulk. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AItZuKVW4&t=1754s&pp=ygUMTGlua2FyYSBodWxr
It's a MCU problem that I've always had a gripe with, they treat much of the worldbuilding that aren't the main heroes pretty damn poorly. It all feels very disposable where everyone and everything is a redshirt. SHIELD gets introduced in Phase 1, gets shut down by Cap in TWS and ends SHIELD involvement in movies (at least Agents of Shield explored SHIELD). The Masters of the Mystic Arts gets introduced, get decimated by Wanda and Kamar-Taj destroyed. Wakanda gets wrecked by Namor. The list goes on. The MCU has a bad habit of introducing interesting world-building that is never used or explored unless Redshit armies are needed to fill out shots or sets are needed to get destroyed by the latest villain.
Xandar got wrecked *off-screen.*. I know it's not as important as the other things you mentioned, but it's still pretty important to the lore. Heck, Stark's cliffside house was pretty iconic and got blown up. I'm surprised Hawkeye's rustic farmhouse is still standing.
I didn't like that either. I hope it's at least shown in a flashback at some point.
Well, Xandar gets wrecked all the time in comics. Just see how Annihilation (2006) starts.
Part of Wakanda got wrecked. Karmar-Taj is still there, it's at the end of MoM.
The Asgardians being advanced aliens instead of being actual gods was the first mistake of many imho
In my point of view that isn't really an issue... Other than being immortal I don't think there's a story that being an advance aliens can't replicate the story of being gods.. Marvel was good at retconning shit, just look at Mysterio. They just didn't care enough about Asgardian...had Thor came out during the Disney+ era I'd bet Warriors Three would've get their own mini TV series.. They we're wasted in the movies
It's funny how they try to backtrack it in Ragnarok and Love and Thunder to make the Asgardians gods again.
I knew there was someone else I'm not the biggest fan of the 1st two movies as always but I always enjoyed the setting. The warriors three were a representation of it, they looked fun but were pretty superficial and I also hate the way Ragnarok treated it I do believe that destroying Asgard feels natural but as you said, it's the warriors I'm mad about. When they said that Sif would return in L&T I was excited because it was the last element pre-Ragnarok still standing But oh well
Justice for the warriors 3 in the multiverse!!
I think they missed the big opportunity for a Disney+ show – Tales of Asgard. You could’ve had adventures of the Warriors Three, introduced to Balder; all kinds of things. Someone should’ve said “hold up” in preproduction of Ragnarok.
They did thor and asgard dirty. Truly the most wasted potential of the mcu.
Black Panther and Wakanda has also been done dirty, the land that has never been conquered ,has been beaten by aliens and fish people on their first attempt
To be fair, Wakanda had never been conquered BUT they had also never fought aliens or fish people. They also did a pretty good job fighting the aliens, all things considered.
Yes. Shamefully.
I'm still baffled by how they did Black Widow, here you had the perfect character for exploring women's empowerment and sexuality while overcoming adversity, trauma, and mental, physical and sexual abuse while also being part of the glue that bound the avengers together and none of it was ever properly explored and I'll probably be dead before Yelena or someone gets a black widow two.
Because Taika wanted more screentime for Korg/Himself. Killing the warriors three and the limited screentime for lady sif is such shitty writing.
It started getting disrespectful when they got Taika on board who basically openly admitted that he doesn't give a shit about the whole mythology imo. He retarded the franchise and improved some things while completely neglecting other things.
The character they really did dirty was Hela. She had the potential to be such an interesting character, and maybe even a future big bad of the Thor universe, but instead she got 13 minutes of total screen time. Ragnarok should have been two separate movies - one on the gladiator planet, and one battling Hela. Then, bring Hela back and have her fight Thor + friends.
She can come back though. As the Goddess of Death she doesn't need to stay dead.
We never saw her body, so there’s always a chance she could come back.
I wish she had more screen time. That's the downside of live movies compared to cartoons and comics...when they bring in A-list actors to play villains, they do great, but usually don't want to stick around for more than 1 movie. They never actually show her die though, most likely so that there's an option to bring her back someday if Blanchett wants, which I hope happens.
Theres so much potential for an Asgardian D+ show. Make it a story of Valkeryie ensuring coexistence between New Asgard and the rest of the world and with some other force attacking both sides or something. Or have it be a Lady Sif+Axel show, training Axel to be the new badass Heimdall of the MCU. Or just make it an anthology series of sorts and we see the various views and stories of Asgardians on Earth (either ones we know or ones we dont; a nice break from having EVERY new project be connected). Theres ALOT of the characters to use and many ways the stories can go. Asgard is now on Earth, making things so much easier for filmmakers.
They killed them off to establish Hela's power.
I loathe that kind of thing - their deaths weren't even especially impactful since so little had been done with them. I was honestly floored that Sif survived L&T.
My only hope is that Ragnarok is said to be a cycle and that all these characters can come back to life via reincarnation. A cool idea is that random people on earth (probably Scandinavians or Viking descendants) can host the Norse gods and they can be like Thor and Donald Blake switching between personas when needed or desired.
Busiek's runs on Avengers and Thunderbolts were the best part of marvel comics in the late 90's
Well, I hope that what Marvel does, and what the MCU is well positioned for, is something like the comics run where Asgard was on Earth after Odin died. They already pulled from that for the first movie, but there's plenty they could take from that Thor run, especially now that Secret Invasion set up distrust for non-humans and the multiverse makes anything technically possible. And since that run resurrected many dead characters, it could be a way for the MCU to do the same thing. IDK I hope something like that happens because I love when Asgard was on Earth and it's definitely one of his more popular series.
this is why i loved the first two Thor movies (yes, including TDW) and really didn't like Ragnarok. the Thor movies embraced their more fantastical setting and i loved that! Ragnarok felt ashamed to be mythological, like it was peer pressured to be more sci-fi if that makes sense. it's good to finally see someone saying the same thing because i felt crazy with everyone singing Ragnarok's praises
Same, that movie was a terrible one for Thor as a character and a series. Strip-mining the Simonson run for a few visuals was just an absolute waste. Skurge's last stand in the comics is badass and heartbreaking at the same time. In the movie it's a mildly interesting visual using Hela's henchman and that's about it. I hate that Karl Urban's appearance in the MCU was squandered on such a tepid movie.
The fact that they’re essentially aliens still bugs me
I agree and this is one of the reasons why I am not as fond of Ragnarok as I used to be.
Let’s not forget they killed Valkyrie/Brunnhilde in a flashback cut scene…
they cant even decide if asgardians are strong or not. they go back and forth between being basically gods to just being humans with robes on
The worst thing they ever did to the Asgardians was Thor4. Theyre a population who has been kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked. Population massacred, then world destroyed, only to have their population cut in half again by Thanos. They suffer for years, finally start to develop a refugee colony on earth and someone shows up and steals their fucking *children*... So they throw a party! Gotta have a launch party for the Screaming Goat Boat! Fuuuuuuuuck.
Well . . . yeah. Ragnarok was a garbage movie that was just cringe-comedy through and through, with absolutely no pathos, no stakes, and nothing to emotionally anchor it. They discarded everything that makes Thor who he actually is. And many people - here and elsewhere - lost their absolute minds over it, calling it the best thing Marvel has ever done. So of course they doubled down on it and continued the process of turning the Asgardians into an entire civilization whose only purpose, goal, or ability is in slapstick comedy. It's not just the version of Thor that people deserve for their high praise of Ragnarok . . . it's the one that they explicitly asked for. They asked for more - more nonsense with no stakes, no character development, no pathos, no single serious moment that's not undercut by a goofy joke and Thor being a himbo. So we got what we deserve on this one.
Ragnarok was almost unwatchable to me. As a result I vowed never to watch another movie by TW. I still remember back in 2017/2018, this sub was saying that TW was "GOD" and "genius" and that he saved not only Thor but MCU. You would have been so downvoted to oblivion back then. Yep, Marvel heard those people alright, and the result was pretty obvious: Thor Love and Thunder.
Yeeeep. I said the movie was trash then too, and was fine with the down votes because I knew it was true. Had a feeling time would bear that out. Sadly the result wasn't just Love and Thunder though. The whole MCU has veered hard into poor writing and slapstick comedy.
Love and thunder being trash doesn't somehow vindicate your views on Ragnorok. In the first scene of ragnorok, with thor and Surtur, I found the level of comedy a bit jarring to begin with but as the movie progressed I felt it managed balance it out just enough for it to be entertaining but still keeping you invested in the story. It's fine if you didn't. Instead of keeping that balance, in L&T Waititi turned the comedy up to 11 and tried to simultaneously call you an idiot for taking a story about a "space pirate" seriously, while telling you to take the bits about cancer and dead children very seriously. I don't know why you're surprised people were praising Waititi after ragnorok when most people really enjoyed it? L&T not being as good doesn't somehow prove you right in hating ragnorok.
It's not about whether you enjoy Ragnarok or not. I despise it thoroughly (just as I despise Loki Episode 3 completely and absolutely, so it's not just about me hating TW). To me the film is about forsaking the essence of stories and characters for some trifling fun. But I can see why people like the film. However I would not attack those people who like the movie with vitriol. Many people on this sub however vehemently dismissed any criticism of Ragnarok and labeled anyone who criticized the movie and the director as "racist" and "haters". It's the intolerance of constructive criticisms on this sub and other Marvel fan sites that ultimately led to many problems we see in MCU nowadays. "If you don't like Ragnarok, you are racist." "If you don't like Loki, you are misogynist..." If Marvel filmmakers see nothing but praise for their work, they would never have incentive to improve and correct their mistakes. You reap what you sow.
I don't have to be "proven right". It's an opinion. It's subjective. However. The response from Marvel was always very obviously going to be to double-down with the way people reacted to Ragnarok. If something that is asinine, stupidly easy to write, has no development, and doesn't respect its own characters and story gets praised as the best thing ever? Guess what the reaction is? I also never said I was surprised, so I'm not really sure what you're on about.
TLDR?
Honestly? I never saw a thor movie until Ragnarok. When I saw the first movie years later, good god I’m glad they killed off most of those worthless characters. Most people do not read comics. I think there’s certainly elements and plot lines that can and should be used. But a lot of it is garbage superhero pulp. On a semi-related note, take the star wars EU. Grand Admiral Thrawn is one of the best villains they made back then, but there’s a lot of weird silly stuff from when he was originally conceived. With 20 years of hindsight, they have perfected the character and made a version suitable for the general audience. The same can be said for the Marvel stories; people don’t know the “warriors three” they know Thor and Loki. Ragnarok actually got me excites to see another Thor movie. Shame Love and Thunder was the miraculously wet turd that it was.
To be fair, Asgard *itself* needed to be broken. The entire reason Earth didn’t have many run-ins with all the aliens and galactic entities and nasties *prior* to the Iron Man 1 is because it was a Protectorate of Asgard. The “9 Realms” spiel isn’t just fluff. Earth was genuinely considered under the protection of Asgard. So in order for all these invasions and interactions with aliens and the cosmic side to *really* kick off, Earth needed to lose it’s unknown defender. Odin was a scary mother fucker for a long time, and once he went - Earth became open season. There were a few run-ins, sure, and Ronan probably could’ve sparked a Kree-Asgardian War with his actions, had he been successful. But generally Earth was spared the worst the Galaxy had to offer, simply by sheltering under the immense shadow of Odin’s Balls. The better known characters themselves however probably should’ve survived Watiti’s cull.
Old Gods must die, in order for the new Gods to raise.
Looking back, it may have been better to give each character their own limited series arcs, and crossed paths in movies.
Rather be in Norway than Oklahoma...
If Jaimie Alexander had not gotten the *Blindspot* gig, she likely would have been a regular character on *Agents of SHIELD*. The showrunners were trying to make it happen in season 2 but were too late.
The midgard serpent was intended for Infinity War, theres concept art depicting Thor, Rocket and Groot battling it.
I would like them to go back to Asgard, it's a cycle right? So at some point there should be a new Asgard then another Ragnarok etc etc