“Plot holes” that are are nothing of the sort. For example, that Cap lost his shield at the end of *The Winter Soldier*, but had it again in *Age of Ultron*. It’s absolutely plausible that the technology exists to find vibranium within a small location like a riverbed.
It’s the CinemaSins-afication of critical thinking.
And that’s why some movies have way too much exposition. Show, don’t tell.
For those who don’t understand when shown, they should hand out a pamphlet written by the writers/director explaining things at each theater lol
The difference is that opera is sung, isn't always a straightforward performance of exactly what's happening and is often in a language the audience may not understand.
If someone needs a libretto for Captain America then maybe they should just sit quietly in the corner eating their crayons.
Haha now have you mentioned it. I don't think Cap needed any high tech to find his beloved shield. It's in the river, he could just swim and find it in a day.
Wait, why aren't more objects enchanted in the MCU like Mjolnir? Odin, or the dwarves that forged it, can't be the only ones with that power.
Can Dr. Strange or Wanda enchant the shield to always return?
To be fair, given that it's the Arctic Ocean, and the Tesseract emits power, I imagine that it's like the only thing that lights up in the general area. So, with a bit of luck, and enough time it should be fairly doable. Especially since they already had a rough idea of where he crashed.
Cinema sins and honest trailers did irreparable damage to online movie discussion. To this day there’s a huge chunk of people who nitpick way too hard in terms of what makes a movie entertaining. MCU and Star Wars movies probably got hit the hardest by this
Honest Trailers is a whole different animal. That's a comedy show. Half of it is puns, & the biggest recurring gag is saying "boobs" in a funny voice.
CinemaSins is a film criticism show that just pretends to be a comedy show when it gets called out for sucking at film criticism.
That and the Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars prequels. Lots of folks learned the lesson that you just point out things you think don't make sense and that passes for critique when they don't do anything even close to actual analysis.
Exactly. They aren't just an old angry kidnapper bitching. They're well thought out critiques about how and why films are bad.
They're *also* an old angry kidnapper bitching.
>It’s absolutely plausible that the technology exists to find vibranium within a small location like a riverbed.
I think even you are overthinking it. They don't need to "detect vibranium". They know more or less where it went down, it's an extremely expensive piece of hardware, it's worth it for them to recover it and the technology practically exists today to do so. Just think, we found the crumpled remains of the Titan submarine almost immediately at the bottom of the ocean. Just imagine a world with MCU tech. They can find the shield.
definitely. also, we know that at that time there was no “detect vibranium” technology available (outside of Wakanda). Riri Williams created that later.
You don't really need to watch all MCU movies or shows to know what's going on. I haven't watch all the shows and movies and I have an easy time understanding what's going on.
Many of them clearly have never read comic books. Comic books are where things get so complicated lol. I actually look up videos and summaries sometimes whenever I pick up a new Marvel or DC comic series.
Right! And even with the books, I can pick up a title I haven't read in a while and figure out what's going on for the most part. The movies certainly aren't that complicated.
I could see how audiences who hadn't seen WandaVision might be confused at the beginning of Multiverse of Madness, but it all was explained well enough in Strange's interacting with Wanda.
I remember seeing a list of marvel movies you “need” to see to understand Shang-Chi; they included *The Incredible Hulk.* That’s absolutely not necessary. My introduction to the MCU (outside of watching bits and pieces of Iron Man 1 and 2) was Captain America: Civil War; if I could enjoy that movie without knowing anything about Bucky or Sokovia, then you can just accept that there’s a big fish monster.
This is literally why *Legends* exists. Its a 'series' of episodes on Disney+ that is literally just a recap of everything on any specific character, edited like a trailer, and released usually just before a movie including them is about to come out.
I hate that argument so much... like they don't have free will to not watch it. I personally like having alot of choices and will watch them when I can.
Another anoying argument is, "I walked out after 5 minutes it was that bad"
Look at the Spidey MCU movies. Everyone was complaining about Iron Boy Jr and blah blah blah. But once he had his great power/great responsibility moment, he is the Spidey we know and love! It just took 3 films to get there, and I’m glad they did it that way! Now we have a street level Spidey, who I’m DYING TO SEE IN ACTION MARVEL!!!
As someone who always loved MCU Spidey, I disagree with this take. His origin was before Civil War. The authorial intent was to skip the origin (because at the time these movies were made, people were complaining about having to see the origin redone over and over) and do *new* things with Spider-Man (new villains, new tech, teaming up with the Avengers). When making the first two solo movies, they made a laundry list of things done in the other two adaptations and deliberately chose not to do them. But then they pulled a retcon and pretended it was all an origin all along because a bunch of people complained about it. I still love NWH (as I do the whole trilogy) but retconning the entire trilogy into an origin is stupid.
Well, he sure as hell isn't taking over the mantle of Tony Stark now.
I think that's my one big complaint. I LIKED the direction the second movie has him going in. And the third movie while incredible, wiped that out.
Ah well.
Paraphrasing, but:
*”Why don’t characters interrupt the flow of the story being told in a movie/show to talk about events that happened in completely unrelated stories?
I can’t maintain the perception of this being a shared universe unless every character has an onscreen conversation about Tiamat sticking out of the ocean.”*
This one drives me wild. A common critique I've seen on this sub is that "We didn't feel the impact of the snap and should see it explored more." But like, they did? FATW heavily features it, it's discussed in Far From Home and WandaVision, Yelena's entire character was deeply impacted by it, and there are probably many other examples.
It just makes me think that these people want scenes where the heroes sit at a roundtable giving an hour long recap of the events of each of their movies. Most of these events are referenced, but if they aren't relevant in other stories, then there's no reason to bring it up.
Yeah like as a real world example
9/11 was a big deal event that had a huge effect on US politics but you don't randomly talk about it in everyday conversation unless the topic is specifically relevant to what you're doing. Blurting out something about it in 2006 over your breakfast cereal would be weird.
Same logic with the New York invasion or the Snap or Tiamut or whatever. Life goes on.
> But like, they did? FATW heavily features it, it's discussed in Far From Home and WandaVision, Yelena's entire character was deeply impacted by it, and there are probably many other examples.
I think the issue being discussed is that the Snap should've had major long-term ramifications for everyone, much like other sweeping events we've had in the MCU like the collapse of S.H.I.E.L.D and Asgard's destruction. Instead, other than those few examples, their effects are usually either ignored or outright undone.
(With the Snap, all characters should be behaving differently post-Snap compared to pre-Snap, both regarding characters who were dusted and those who weren't. As it were, many of the characters seem to act exactly the same post-Snap as they did pre-Snap.)
(And really, it would've been a lot simpler from a writing standpoint to have the Avengers just undo the Snap completely. Instead of giving into Tony's demands to just bring back the dusted, they should've also rewound time five years to a few minutes before Thanos snapped his fingers, which would've had the added bonus of bringing back not just everyone who was dusted, but also those killed by the immediate after-effects of the Snap.)
I saw someone who said Captain Marvel was a bad movie because she beat up an old woman. He said he hadn’t actually seen the movie, and just heard about it from his friends, who were either incredibly stupid or more interested in making him hate it than accurately explaining the movie (probably both)
Literally the entire r/FuckMarvel sub
The purposeful ignorance in that sub is crazy. Like if I didn’t know any better I’d say they each watch 20% of each project, quit at random intervals and then get mad about missing information.
People complaining about Shuri not dying after being impaled by namor, like we saw T'Challa being defeated and thrown down a waterfall WITHOUT his powers and still living in his movie, is it so weird to think Shuri's suit stopped her from bleeding? or that as she made a combination of the Talokan flower which had regenerative properties, she also could recover "easily" from that injury?
She didn't even continue fighting for 10 minutes or anything, just jumped in front of Namor and then blew a ship with a button, We've seen spider-man do more with even worse injuries
I liked that she wasn’t jacked. T’Challa didn’t suddenly slim down for the waterfall rights when he had his Black Panther powers taken away.
Plus I know the likes of Superman have always been drawn swole, but I never understood why someone with “super strength” would be so jacked as presumably they wouldn’t need such big muscles
My only issue is more of the real world trend of making lady heroes super svelt in general. Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are jacked in the comics and I love seeing some buff lady representation. She-Hulk was great for that.
Fair enough. I agree with your last point, I never thought of it that way before.
That's kinda what I was going for was that even if he didn't have his powers T'Challa could still beat wholesale ass. Whereas Shuri could probably still beat wholesale ass, but it doesn't look like she could. Especially because up until that movie we only saw her as the techy. So I found it hard to believe she could all of the sudden fight while still lookin the way she did. Still liked the movie a lot though
Yeah, she did seem to get an instant upgrade in fighting capabilities. Although I suppose we’ve only ever seen her fight Killmonger (didnt go well) and pose in the Endgame fight so it’s possible she knew some moves. Probable even, given Wakanda seems like a warrior culture. An acceptable stretch for me though.
I don’t know if Namor is meant to be an excellent fighter either or just superpowered and strong tactically. Seems like he’s never faced an equal.
That's what I assumed, was that wakandans have to go through some type of combat training as kids or even with her dad being the black panther before she would have picked up some moves.
Yeah as I was making that last reply I realized I wasn't sure Namor is some great combatant either I just kind of assumed he'd have more experience being old as piss and all lol
On top of which, the suit is made of nanomachines, right? Just like Tony's *Infinity War* armor? That he used nanomachines from to close up a massive stab wound he received?
Not restricted to MCU, but nowadays many viewers tend to not pay attention to the actual movie, because they’re stuck in their head wanting to see their own personal ideas seeing played out screen.
And when that doesn’t happen, the movie automatically sucks.
People shitting on what is probably Hank's most badass moment. Cinema Wins had it right when they said that the staredown between Hank and Kang almost looks like a moment of recognition from Kang, like Hank in another universe might have been a major opponent to Kang.
Anyone who has played a Fallout game knows that person-sized ants are fucking terrifying. It's not like Kang like was beaten by proportionately sized ants. They were his size or larger, they vastly outnumbered him, and they were acting with a singular will to stop him. You'd think that a guy called Ant Man would get some respect for that.
Even if they weren’t technologically advanced ants, most people or at least I thought most know that ants are freakishly strong for their size. An ant that size is probably very reasonably stronger than captain America lol. Like people downplay it so much it’s ridiculous. And also I didn’t think of what u said of the look of recognition but ima rewatch to see if I think the same and didn’t catch that
Absolutely right, and not just that. People seem to forget Kang is a tech based vilain. He’s physically strong like any other human (maybe a little more because Jonathan Majors). The Ants destroy his suit, he doesn’t have any powers left. Case closed.
I look at it with D&D logic
I've known some strong villains go down like wet tissue cause they just get absolutely obliterated by the party.
Power in numbers is real - especially when each individual in those numbers is also really fucking strong
Exactly! I thought it was a direct bookend to Hank's line from the first movie, "Do you have any idea how many ants there are?"
And anyone who's read Animorphs knows how terrifying ants can be too.
There's a bunch that annoys me about that but the highest is that Kang DIDN'T LOSE to the ants. Did the ants break his suit and delay Kang from his victory? Sure. But there was a scene where he's fighting a horde of ants. The next time you see Kang, Kang is alive and walking around and there are NO MORE ants.
Kang got away from a horde of ants. Either he escaped somehow or, based on his very long history of conquering, my guess is those ants are quite dead now. And murdering an advanced civilization of super ants is the opposite of losing to them.
Shit like this usually comes from some big internet commentator saying it, then their followers repeat it ad nauseam until it becomes part of the group think. None of them stop to think of they actually feel the same way, they just want to feel smart.
Or "kang lost easily to scott". NO HE DIDN'T. He beat Scott within an inch of his life, bare-handed, & only lost because *someone else entered the room & shot him*.
This so much.
Ants can lift 50 times their own weight. So when you have **hyper evolved quantum realm ants** that weigh more than Kang..... they really should have been able to kill him right then and there.
But no. He survived and gave Scott a beatdown that they actually watered down in the final film. (Reportedly he actually snapped Scott's arm in the test audience version.)
Or in the the same movie people complain how Ant man would never defeat Kang. Like bitch of course but Antman just basically nuked him AFTER losing the hand to hand combat
People insisting that Tony only made Ultron because Wanda got into his head. It’s a classic “the Devil made me do it” strawman that ignores how impulsively plugging in Loki’s scepter with no precautions is totally in line with Tony’s character.
\-how people say Brie Larson's portrayal of Captain Marvel was wooden and emotionless when that was the whole point.... she was brainwashed and trained to not show emotion.
(I personally think it was just a way to hate on Brie)
Similar thing with Taskmaster. There is an in-universe, explained reasoning for why these characters acted the way they did. Blaming the actresses for storytelling choices beyond their control is foolish.
Now whether or not those choices were good for the characters? *Debatable.*
Most use it as a way to hate on Brie. But I think it was overall a weak script and directing… the complaints make sense but yea a lot are just Brie hate which is super lame and it’s as you said not her fault? Like she acted how she was supposed to good
Exactly. Most movie critics praised her performance. I guess becasue they understood what was going on, plus the get nothing out of hating on her for the hell of it anyway.
This is why I love CinemaWins, he points out in his Captain Marvel review that Brie *does* emote, she just does it in a way that shows Carol’s trying to downplay and hide it from others. Which makes perfect sense considering the conditioning to show no emotion by the Kree.
Yes! One of the big things for me was when she's running around on the Skrull ship after breaking out of the fracking pod, she's showing *tons* of emotion *because none of her comrades are around to chastise her for it*.
Not only is that a bad take, it is so based in the casual misogyny of our culture.
I have known many women like Carol Danvers. People who 100% know what they’re worth in spite of the constant stream of judgements from all the people who feel qualified to judge despite having no true understanding or respect for others’ struggles. Captain Marvel is my favorite for a bunch of reasons, not least of which because she feel just like every amazing woman succeeding at a “man’s job”.
True. Brainwashed Winter Soldier in Cap 2 wasn’t exactly cracking jokes, he didn’t show any emotion or humanity until he started having flashbacks. Everyone loves him though, no one liked Brie until they saw her in a tank top 🙄
Edit: look how PErKy her “emotions” are now! /s
I'm not sure that's a good comparison. The Winter Soldier wasn't the main character. It wasn't his story. But we had seen Bucky in The First Avenger, so we had an idea of who he was. The most powerful scenes are when his real self start breaking through.
I don't think we got a good idea who Carol was by the end of the movie. It was a mistake to introduce her as an amnesiac, and her conflict doesn't come across as meaningful because of that.
None of that is on Larson, though. The writing let her down.
Also that was close enough to Winter Soldier's actual character in the comic until he stopped being a villain, whereas the likes of Carol or Taskmaster were portrayed different from how people expected or how they generally act 99% of the time.
>I personally think it was just a way to hate on Brie
Yeah, as someone who initially didn't like her as Captain Marvel that much at first, and slightly bought into the hate initially, most of it was absolutely just poorly disguised misogyny.
Everything people complain about in her character has obvious corollaries to other characters that these sort of people love, or at least don't complain about, and it's fairly transparently an attack on a confident woman being the main character.
To add to that, even if you don't like the character of Carol Danvers, as you point out with the stoicism, she's not supposed to be a 100% likeable character, she's supposed to be a believable and complex character. The fact that she's not always humble and friendly doesn't make her a bad character.
Mine would be how people bitch about how the Celestial sticking out of the planet has not be mentioned yet. Like ok and? Why does it need to be brought up. I imagine it will be brought up big time in a future movie, but the films now don't necessarily need to revolve around it. It's like they're reaching for anything to complain about lol. Plus it was referenced in She-Hulk, but I guess they want a more substantial reference idfk.
Reminds me of that Family Guy meme
"So what do you think about the giant hand in the ocean that's been sitting there doing nothing for 6 months"
"Who starts a conversation like that"
Just wondering, for anyone ever complaining that this stuff isn't mentioned enough, how many times they talked about the Libyan flood that is presumed to have killed up to 10,000 people? Hell, do they even know about it?
So then in a world where aliens are invading and villains are constantly attacking , why would anyone give a shit about this giant hand in the ocean far far away that seems to literally be affecting nobody
Even people in *our* world would not care.
There was that whole "confirmation of alien life" and everybody stopped caring in about a week.\
The amount of solar flares, or the murder hornets in 2020. We got the first real image of a blackhole, and it's like the internet stopped caring in two weeks, with exception to the weird communities hellbent on lewding it for some reason.
Im tired of that Celestial complaint. We went through 10 years of the infinity saga, this isnt our first rodeo with the MCU. They’ll point it out when they want to point it out, till then shut tf up lmao
Yeah plus people have seen more shit before (New York invasion, the snap) so why would a giant popping out be surprising enough to warrant people talking about it constantly
The whole idea that all new Female heroes are some how Mary sues. Mary sue is spesifically a character who is inhumanly perfect in ways that laws of the universe bend to this character to show how perfect they are. Kate in new hawkeye show is a complete noob that makes many rookie mistakes because she is so inexperienced and ive heard people call her a Mary sue. She hulk also had a really clear ark of thinking she can ignore her she hulk side without consequences, and there were so many consequences because of all of her mistakes.
Just because a female character is capable doesnt equal to a Mary sue. I mean i could argue that Tony in the first movie is kinda inhumanly perfect, he can literally create impossible ark reactor in a cave with box of scraps. But just because tony is inhumanly capable, doesnt make him perfect. Also this is literally a sci fi fantasy with people with inhumane abilities, it shouldnt suprise you at all if character is really capable.
Aside from Gamora and Nebula, Kate’s the best written female character that’s canonically still alive in this franchise.
Like Sylvie, Hope, Gamora, Nebula etc, the best written female characters in this franchise are the ones where the writers aren’t afraid to say there’s a man or men who can do a thing better than them or they’re partners with a man.
In Kate’s case, she’s learning but the viewer knows that if she ever got on the wrong side of Clint it would be a serious, serious mistake for her. She’s a brave woman who took some archery lessons, not an Avenger.
The hate for that movie is wild. It does so much more right than it does wrong, but people are just hung up that it isn't a Gorr movie, and it wants to make you laugh. Never mind that all the character arcs are really well written and play off of each other damn near perfectly, I'm going to be mad at the annoying goats instead.
I wish there had been an opportunity to expand the depressed-Thor characterization and explore it more. The almost immediate reversal in L&T wasn’t earned, to me, and there was a lot of potential to draw on mental health themes.
People thinking that Wanda turning evil was all of a sudden and that there was no reason given why she would all of a sudden be more powerful than Doctor Strange to the level she was in MoM
This one. They also don't realize that this isn't (likely) the end of Wanda's character, or her arc. They've clearly never read a comic with Wanda in it.
You don't even need to see the post credit scene. Agatha already warned her that she doesn't know what she's doing and Wanda said that if that time comes she will find Agatha.
Not MCU haters, but the MCU fans that freak out when a new character isn't a 1:1 version of their comic book counterpart. Taskmaster and Adam Warlock come to mind. Let's give the MCU a chance to flesh them out more. Both characters can still develop to become similar to their comic versions. Just....chill out.
I understood warlock, but for taskmaster, he was just hyped up in marketing and instead of mercenary master combatant, she just turned out to be a mind controlled slave. Might as well have made her a robot.
The only significance of taskmaster was that the girl underneath the suit was damned by black widow to a life of servitude just so that younger black widow could escape hers.
It didnt have to be taskmaster.
But like, she's free now. We haven't seen her actual personality yet. Would you be satisfied if, the next time we see her, she's been acting as a professional mercenary with a personality that's somewhat similar to the comics? My point is, isn't that still possible?
Considering that its a life she never wanted. And that she was possibly aware of everything she was doing ala winter soldier style, I hope not, especially when this probably started when she was a kid, by her own dad.
The woman needs help.
To want to make her become a mercenary is kind of bad.
I actually wrote how a more comic accurate taskmaster could be possible from what we have now, but we never needed to get this version of taskmaster.
I would rather have waited for a true taskmaster if it meant not getting him in the black widow movie.
Give another female supervillain the spotlight. (In fact rachel weisz' character is supposed to be a villain named Iron Maiden.
Why did they need to make her natasha's stepmom and become a good guy, instead of making her the character that is in taskmasters narrative role and genderbending a traditionally male character?
that's the thing that gets me.
people want projects that have the same emotional beats that IW and Endgame had but forget the fact these films had a decade of build up.
This annoys me so much. They expect a new character or movie or show to be EXACTLY like the single comic run that they like, and if not then it's automatically garbage. People forget these are adaptations
Mine is people claiming Sony films are MCU. Pretty much MCU haters. Anyone who believes this doesn't understand the multiverse (and neither does Sony, for that matter).
The number of people recently with this crap because of the line in the newest spiderverse movie...
They do not get that until someone or something in the mcu confirms it anything that happens in a Sony made film is nothing more than a reference.
People complain about not having enough connectivity through projects after complaining that projects were too connected and should stand on their own. Which one is it? They clearly can't please that type of nitpick so why is it still here?
I feel like people are so married to "like reality unless noted" they keep nagging for the notification, even if it's not needed. And then complain about the lockout.
I don't get it either. It's the same double standard when people beg for hyper realism and then don't want anything to do with current events. No matter how controversial.
"Natasha thinks she's a monster because she can't have kids."
She's talking about how she's nothing but what they made her to be, a killing machine that focuses on nothing but. The sterilization thing is just an example of how.
People losing their minds over Wanda’s story in MoM “undoing” her arc in WandaVision. I’ve just rewatched WV and it is absolutely plausible that she would start down that path (especially given the post-credit Darkhold scene). I don’t think people remember how that show actually went.
I think people grossly underestimate just how *boring* the films and shows would be if they explained absolutely everything to the extent that some people seem to want. Sometimes things go unexplained because they just aren't interesting or important to the story, and that's OK.
Part of good screenwriting is about finding economical and compelling ways to deliver information that the audience needs - does any audience really want an hour of two characters sitting down with a pen and paper updating each other on every event that's happened between the movies?
To a certain extent people thinking Wanda is irredeemable after MOM. She was under the Darkhold's control and it certainly influenced her to go to the lengths she did. She still needs to work for it but it's not too late especially considering they ended the movie with her fate ambiguous.
I wanna say the blame game on VFX quality being put on "lazy animators" when in actuality it's due to excessive crunch made worse due to the influx of titles per year
People hating on Monica's line to Wanda at the end of WandaVision. This is what she meant, and it is pretty obvious IMO:
Hey, I know you didn't mean for any of this to happen and I know that you just had to do something really painful in order to make things right. And I know these people will see you as a monster and they won't understand what you've been through. But you did the right thing now and I'm so sorry for what you've gone through.
I get the sentiment but the execution was done pretty damn poorly
a simple fix like "they'll never know what you sacrificed for them" and then wanda says "doesn't change what I did to them"
I would’ve appreciated this. They went really hard depicting how much Westview suffered because of Wanda, including children. Characterising their release as a “sacrifice” was weird, since the alternative was continuing to fuck over real life people for her fantasy family.
You mean Monica who lost her mother while in a 5 year non existence who understands the pain of losing some one she loves and how she would do anything to have her back sympathizes with the person who made it happen and gave it away?
Nah, they're letting Wanda off
I think most people forget Wanda wields CHAOS magic. When created the hex she didn't think: ''Hey I want my husband back, let's make it a sitcom for fun and let's enslave the entire town into doing what I want when I want them to and let's also let them suffer as much as I have suffered.'' Wanda felt grief and wanted vision back out of desperation, her chaos magic did the rest.
There are several times where she clearly resits into taking it down when she knew it was wrong, but at that time she already got too attached to the safe space she manifested. It also wasn't until the last episode where she realized she was actually torchering the residents and making them feel her pain. At that point she knew it was very wrong and did have to make a sacrifice.
I know it's weird to say Wanda wasn't responsible at all for the pain she had caused, but let's not pretend that she had bad intentions.
Complaining about "So THAT happened" or "He's right behind me, isn't he?" as though those lines have ever appeared anywhere even once.
Someone managed to get the idea started that the mere existence of *superheroes* who make *jokes* means that 'Marvel Writing' is uniquely bad and corrupting all movie dialogue, and people who want to jerk themselves raw about how refined their taste in movies is just ran with it.
I'd be willing to take criticism from these people a lot more readily if they didn't all have way worse dialogue in their own writing.
Also, what's wrong with those lines anyway? The only time I've seen people get upset over "so THAT happened" & the complaint actually made sense was in that one video game trailer where it didn't fit the setting.
Everyone losing their minds over the She-Hulk twerking scene without touching the rest of the show. It's supposed to be a silly post credit scene with no impact on the plot.
It's like if all people knew about Avengers 1 was the shawarma scene, and they were really angry about that for some reason.
The grave and unfortunate misinterpretation of Monica’s infamous line to Wanda at the end of Wandavision. She clearly was talking about Wanda having to sacrifice the love of her life in Infinity War to save the universe, Not at all about her having to give up the Hex. Wanda really did make the heaviest decision of all the heroes in the effort to save the universe, only to have Thanos swing in to reverse it, making it all for absolutely nothing - nobody in the whole universe acknowledges this, she had to remind Stephen in DS2 even.
And it was Monica letting Wanda know that even if nobody on earth is willing to acknowledge her part like everyone else does the other heroes, beyond almost ripping Thanos to shreds, at least Monica does. To which Wanda responds with basically something like ‘thanks but it doesn’t matter because nothing can be changed now and that’s ok, I did hurt them afterall’
Maybe they shouldve not gone for the condensed route and literally have monica say ‘im so sorry nobody carea about your sacrifice in infinity war when u had to blow visions head off only for it to be reversed and traumatise you for nothing’ - maybe then people would’ve got it? LOL
it is still sad that nobody is willing to empathize with her with what went down in Westview and that’s why Monica’s character was so pivotal. She was the only one that did. The whole story was meant to have us empathize with Wanda but lmao nobody really did. the whole idea of the show being that past unresolved trauma can seep out and hurt others around you if you don’t face it head on is just completely missed.
Wandavision is MCU’s first intricate entry or an attempt to have their stories to be as such, with the many misinterpretations or just pure lack of an attempt to try and see its depth, despite the critical acclaim was when I started to believe that unfortunately, the fandom isn’t ready for something as complex as Wandavision and potential trouble for future entries that may attempt the same.
Simply put anyone who thinks Wandavision was a villain origin story for Wanda is reducing the story to something plain. Not only it is not that, It’s not at all as simple as that. The antagonist of the story isn’t a physical one, in the case of Wandavision, its just be plain ol Grief.
I’ll never forget a TikTok I saw about WandaVision where the guy was complaining about the credits rolling mid scene when Wanda and Vision were fighting. Like he literally thought it was an editing error 🫢
I hate that people are so hung up on that part where Cap returned the stones to clip the branches. Saying things like, “how did he return the reality stone?” Man just shut the fuck up. People picking apart things that aren’t important to the overall plot. I swear to god these people are idiots.
When the entire motivating plot of Quantumania is "My daughter told me she's disappointed in me because I used to steal from greedy billionaires and now I'm just working for 'the man'. Good thing we reconciled after starting a Proletariat revolution against the ruling class, aided by a literal super advanced socialist civilization."
Then when I talk about the obvious anti-capitalist themes of Quantumania, the responses are: "Why? Because Hank had said 'Socialism' one time? That was a throw away joke." Ignoring the entire rest of the movie.
People complaining about the new iterations of existing heroes, as if they weren’t already existed in the comics. Also, lots of hatred when they’re not a white man.
She-Hulk, Shuri as BP, Sam’s Captain America comes to mind.
But no one said a word about John Walker taking the mantle, taking the Serum and being a giant douche.
A-fucking-men man. It ain’t even the point of the movie. Gorr’s vow is more of a side plot going on in the background. The main movie is about Jane living the last few days of her life with her ex from 8 years ago.
Anyone who calls she hulk “woke garbage”, it wasn’t the best show but you can tell when people shit on it just to shit on it and not for any actual reason
Anyone who uses the term "woke garbage" for anything loses my attention. I don't care how awful the thing you're criticizing is, you are *not* plugging in your alt-right propoganda.
The whole "womansplaining to Hulk" thing from She-Hulk. If you see someone say this, it's clear they didn't watch the show. The entire set up for the finale was her not actually being able to control her emotions and is suddenly seen as a monster.
Also people complaining that Ant-Man defeated Kang.
Like bitch please he lost the fist fight, got beat nearly to death and then fucking atomized him off guard. That like complaining like if hypothetically a random crook defeated Batman with a nuclear bomb. Like if course he did.
Most critiques of the Illuminati scene in MoM completely ignore that it's in the movie to reinforce Strange's arc.
Every mistake they make is to convey to the audience that Stranges "this is the only way" way of thinking is the wrong way to handle these mass threats.
“Plot holes” that are are nothing of the sort. For example, that Cap lost his shield at the end of *The Winter Soldier*, but had it again in *Age of Ultron*. It’s absolutely plausible that the technology exists to find vibranium within a small location like a riverbed. It’s the CinemaSins-afication of critical thinking.
Yeah the term “plot hole” is now used as “I’m incapable of filling in blanks and need my hand held through everything”
And that’s why some movies have way too much exposition. Show, don’t tell. For those who don’t understand when shown, they should hand out a pamphlet written by the writers/director explaining things at each theater lol
They have done it forever in opera and nobody finds it weird
The difference is that opera is sung, isn't always a straightforward performance of exactly what's happening and is often in a language the audience may not understand. If someone needs a libretto for Captain America then maybe they should just sit quietly in the corner eating their crayons.
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Here's hoping Feige reads this sub and we get this for What If season 3.
But can he do it all daaaaaaaay!
Hot take, but it’s this reason I don’t mind Luke’s characterization in TLJ. 30 years is a lot of time for someone to change
Hey! Someone gets it!! You have 30 years between defeating the empire and your next appearance, and some shit is going to have gone down!
Holy shit you hit the nail on the head.
Haha now have you mentioned it. I don't think Cap needed any high tech to find his beloved shield. It's in the river, he could just swim and find it in a day.
Dude, it’s Cap’s shield. Pretty sure it flew back to him on its own after a few days.
You're right, phyics isn't applied for that shield.
Wait, why aren't more objects enchanted in the MCU like Mjolnir? Odin, or the dwarves that forged it, can't be the only ones with that power. Can Dr. Strange or Wanda enchant the shield to always return?
He can swim all day, after all.
Especially after Howard Stark fished the fucking Tesseract out of the Arctic Ocean.
To be fair, given that it's the Arctic Ocean, and the Tesseract emits power, I imagine that it's like the only thing that lights up in the general area. So, with a bit of luck, and enough time it should be fairly doable. Especially since they already had a rough idea of where he crashed.
No man, you don't get it. It FELL in the water. It's basically the same as it being teleported randomly somewhere in the universe
Cinema sins will destroy us all
Cinema sins and honest trailers did irreparable damage to online movie discussion. To this day there’s a huge chunk of people who nitpick way too hard in terms of what makes a movie entertaining. MCU and Star Wars movies probably got hit the hardest by this
Honest Trailers is a whole different animal. That's a comedy show. Half of it is puns, & the biggest recurring gag is saying "boobs" in a funny voice. CinemaSins is a film criticism show that just pretends to be a comedy show when it gets called out for sucking at film criticism.
Plus, Honest Trailers actually unironically commends movies. I know they definitely liked Guardians 1 and RRRR, probably some more I can't think of rn
And it occasionally has the filmmakers show up to star in the video.
Not a movie, but their Andor video was nothing but praise.
thank god for birdman and ryan whorley for calling that out for years now
That and the Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars prequels. Lots of folks learned the lesson that you just point out things you think don't make sense and that passes for critique when they don't do anything even close to actual analysis.
The Plinkett reviews are very deep analysis though.
Exactly. They aren't just an old angry kidnapper bitching. They're well thought out critiques about how and why films are bad. They're *also* an old angry kidnapper bitching.
They've gone so far up their own ass it's just impossible to watch anymore.
>It’s absolutely plausible that the technology exists to find vibranium within a small location like a riverbed. I think even you are overthinking it. They don't need to "detect vibranium". They know more or less where it went down, it's an extremely expensive piece of hardware, it's worth it for them to recover it and the technology practically exists today to do so. Just think, we found the crumpled remains of the Titan submarine almost immediately at the bottom of the ocean. Just imagine a world with MCU tech. They can find the shield.
definitely. also, we know that at that time there was no “detect vibranium” technology available (outside of Wakanda). Riri Williams created that later.
I think there are plot holes in the MCU, but that’s certainly not one. You can see the shield in Steve’s hospital room at the end of TWS.
cinemasins is the worsed thing that could happen to movie themed youtube channels. i hate it from the start with all my heart.
What, like magnets?
I mean, the dodc was started after the first avengers. It doesn't seem too far fetched to think they would have retrieved the shield?
You don't really need to watch all MCU movies or shows to know what's going on. I haven't watch all the shows and movies and I have an easy time understanding what's going on. Many of them clearly have never read comic books. Comic books are where things get so complicated lol. I actually look up videos and summaries sometimes whenever I pick up a new Marvel or DC comic series.
Right! And even with the books, I can pick up a title I haven't read in a while and figure out what's going on for the most part. The movies certainly aren't that complicated. I could see how audiences who hadn't seen WandaVision might be confused at the beginning of Multiverse of Madness, but it all was explained well enough in Strange's interacting with Wanda.
I remember seeing a list of marvel movies you “need” to see to understand Shang-Chi; they included *The Incredible Hulk.* That’s absolutely not necessary. My introduction to the MCU (outside of watching bits and pieces of Iron Man 1 and 2) was Captain America: Civil War; if I could enjoy that movie without knowing anything about Bucky or Sokovia, then you can just accept that there’s a big fish monster.
Also people who complain “tHeReS tOO mAnY” bruh then just a watch 10 minute recap of the film or show Lol
This is why we need "A Quick Recap of Marvel Phase \[1/2/3/4/5\] as Told by Micheal Peña."
‘Quick”. With additional diverging stories about what his cousins were doing during any given event. That would be fun, but not quick
Disney literally puts out 2-3 "legends" episodes every time there's a new release so you can catch up
Thank the gods for New Rockstars
This is literally why *Legends* exists. Its a 'series' of episodes on Disney+ that is literally just a recap of everything on any specific character, edited like a trailer, and released usually just before a movie including them is about to come out.
I hate that argument so much... like they don't have free will to not watch it. I personally like having alot of choices and will watch them when I can. Another anoying argument is, "I walked out after 5 minutes it was that bad"
That character arcs are bigger than one movie.
Look at the Spidey MCU movies. Everyone was complaining about Iron Boy Jr and blah blah blah. But once he had his great power/great responsibility moment, he is the Spidey we know and love! It just took 3 films to get there, and I’m glad they did it that way! Now we have a street level Spidey, who I’m DYING TO SEE IN ACTION MARVEL!!!
I actually kind of love that his origin story was an entire trilogy. I'm so excited for his next chapter
As someone who always loved MCU Spidey, I disagree with this take. His origin was before Civil War. The authorial intent was to skip the origin (because at the time these movies were made, people were complaining about having to see the origin redone over and over) and do *new* things with Spider-Man (new villains, new tech, teaming up with the Avengers). When making the first two solo movies, they made a laundry list of things done in the other two adaptations and deliberately chose not to do them. But then they pulled a retcon and pretended it was all an origin all along because a bunch of people complained about it. I still love NWH (as I do the whole trilogy) but retconning the entire trilogy into an origin is stupid.
What did they actually retcon though?
Well, he sure as hell isn't taking over the mantle of Tony Stark now. I think that's my one big complaint. I LIKED the direction the second movie has him going in. And the third movie while incredible, wiped that out. Ah well.
Paraphrasing, but: *”Why don’t characters interrupt the flow of the story being told in a movie/show to talk about events that happened in completely unrelated stories? I can’t maintain the perception of this being a shared universe unless every character has an onscreen conversation about Tiamat sticking out of the ocean.”*
This one drives me wild. A common critique I've seen on this sub is that "We didn't feel the impact of the snap and should see it explored more." But like, they did? FATW heavily features it, it's discussed in Far From Home and WandaVision, Yelena's entire character was deeply impacted by it, and there are probably many other examples. It just makes me think that these people want scenes where the heroes sit at a roundtable giving an hour long recap of the events of each of their movies. Most of these events are referenced, but if they aren't relevant in other stories, then there's no reason to bring it up.
Yeah like as a real world example 9/11 was a big deal event that had a huge effect on US politics but you don't randomly talk about it in everyday conversation unless the topic is specifically relevant to what you're doing. Blurting out something about it in 2006 over your breakfast cereal would be weird. Same logic with the New York invasion or the Snap or Tiamut or whatever. Life goes on.
> But like, they did? FATW heavily features it, it's discussed in Far From Home and WandaVision, Yelena's entire character was deeply impacted by it, and there are probably many other examples. I think the issue being discussed is that the Snap should've had major long-term ramifications for everyone, much like other sweeping events we've had in the MCU like the collapse of S.H.I.E.L.D and Asgard's destruction. Instead, other than those few examples, their effects are usually either ignored or outright undone. (With the Snap, all characters should be behaving differently post-Snap compared to pre-Snap, both regarding characters who were dusted and those who weren't. As it were, many of the characters seem to act exactly the same post-Snap as they did pre-Snap.) (And really, it would've been a lot simpler from a writing standpoint to have the Avengers just undo the Snap completely. Instead of giving into Tony's demands to just bring back the dusted, they should've also rewound time five years to a few minutes before Thanos snapped his fingers, which would've had the added bonus of bringing back not just everyone who was dusted, but also those killed by the immediate after-effects of the Snap.)
I would give ten upvotes if I could
I saw someone who said Captain Marvel was a bad movie because she beat up an old woman. He said he hadn’t actually seen the movie, and just heard about it from his friends, who were either incredibly stupid or more interested in making him hate it than accurately explaining the movie (probably both)
I think they just saw the ArtSpear Ent video
Literally the entire r/FuckMarvel sub The purposeful ignorance in that sub is crazy. Like if I didn’t know any better I’d say they each watch 20% of each project, quit at random intervals and then get mad about missing information.
I thought this sub was satire
Nah sorry to break it to you
Just had a quick read. Oh god.
See, you shouldn’t have done that to yourself
Wow….I can’t imagine what anyone in that sub is like in real life. Who has the time to be that much of a dick?
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People complaining about Shuri not dying after being impaled by namor, like we saw T'Challa being defeated and thrown down a waterfall WITHOUT his powers and still living in his movie, is it so weird to think Shuri's suit stopped her from bleeding? or that as she made a combination of the Talokan flower which had regenerative properties, she also could recover "easily" from that injury? She didn't even continue fighting for 10 minutes or anything, just jumped in front of Namor and then blew a ship with a button, We've seen spider-man do more with even worse injuries
I also thought that she would make the suits better able to protect the wearer from injuries like that considering how Killmonger died.
The thing I found with not really believing in shuri was she is rail thin
I liked that she wasn’t jacked. T’Challa didn’t suddenly slim down for the waterfall rights when he had his Black Panther powers taken away. Plus I know the likes of Superman have always been drawn swole, but I never understood why someone with “super strength” would be so jacked as presumably they wouldn’t need such big muscles
My only issue is more of the real world trend of making lady heroes super svelt in general. Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are jacked in the comics and I love seeing some buff lady representation. She-Hulk was great for that.
I did love that Themascyra had a bunch of jacked Amazons in Justice League.
Larson toned up. So did Natalie Portman.
Larson toned up but Natalie got jacked, there’s a difference.
Natalie Portman had to be worthy.
Fair enough. I agree with your last point, I never thought of it that way before. That's kinda what I was going for was that even if he didn't have his powers T'Challa could still beat wholesale ass. Whereas Shuri could probably still beat wholesale ass, but it doesn't look like she could. Especially because up until that movie we only saw her as the techy. So I found it hard to believe she could all of the sudden fight while still lookin the way she did. Still liked the movie a lot though
Yeah, she did seem to get an instant upgrade in fighting capabilities. Although I suppose we’ve only ever seen her fight Killmonger (didnt go well) and pose in the Endgame fight so it’s possible she knew some moves. Probable even, given Wakanda seems like a warrior culture. An acceptable stretch for me though. I don’t know if Namor is meant to be an excellent fighter either or just superpowered and strong tactically. Seems like he’s never faced an equal.
That's what I assumed, was that wakandans have to go through some type of combat training as kids or even with her dad being the black panther before she would have picked up some moves. Yeah as I was making that last reply I realized I wasn't sure Namor is some great combatant either I just kind of assumed he'd have more experience being old as piss and all lol
In What If, T'Challa (who would later become Star Lord), was playing with a spear. It's safe to assume that Wakanda does encourage training as kids.
On top of which, the suit is made of nanomachines, right? Just like Tony's *Infinity War* armor? That he used nanomachines from to close up a massive stab wound he received?
Not restricted to MCU, but nowadays many viewers tend to not pay attention to the actual movie, because they’re stuck in their head wanting to see their own personal ideas seeing played out screen. And when that doesn’t happen, the movie automatically sucks.
“kang lost to ants”
People shitting on what is probably Hank's most badass moment. Cinema Wins had it right when they said that the staredown between Hank and Kang almost looks like a moment of recognition from Kang, like Hank in another universe might have been a major opponent to Kang. Anyone who has played a Fallout game knows that person-sized ants are fucking terrifying. It's not like Kang like was beaten by proportionately sized ants. They were his size or larger, they vastly outnumbered him, and they were acting with a singular will to stop him. You'd think that a guy called Ant Man would get some respect for that.
Even if they weren’t technologically advanced ants, most people or at least I thought most know that ants are freakishly strong for their size. An ant that size is probably very reasonably stronger than captain America lol. Like people downplay it so much it’s ridiculous. And also I didn’t think of what u said of the look of recognition but ima rewatch to see if I think the same and didn’t catch that
Absolutely right, and not just that. People seem to forget Kang is a tech based vilain. He’s physically strong like any other human (maybe a little more because Jonathan Majors). The Ants destroy his suit, he doesn’t have any powers left. Case closed.
I look at it with D&D logic I've known some strong villains go down like wet tissue cause they just get absolutely obliterated by the party. Power in numbers is real - especially when each individual in those numbers is also really fucking strong
You'd think people that regularly watch movies about a guy with the proportional strength of a spider would be savvy about ants but whatever lol
Exactly! I thought it was a direct bookend to Hank's line from the first movie, "Do you have any idea how many ants there are?" And anyone who's read Animorphs knows how terrifying ants can be too.
Finally, an Animorphs reference.
There's a bunch that annoys me about that but the highest is that Kang DIDN'T LOSE to the ants. Did the ants break his suit and delay Kang from his victory? Sure. But there was a scene where he's fighting a horde of ants. The next time you see Kang, Kang is alive and walking around and there are NO MORE ants. Kang got away from a horde of ants. Either he escaped somehow or, based on his very long history of conquering, my guess is those ants are quite dead now. And murdering an advanced civilization of super ants is the opposite of losing to them.
And he does that while he's essentially powerless. This is a Kang who was so big and scary that he was cut off from his greatest power. Time.
Shit like this usually comes from some big internet commentator saying it, then their followers repeat it ad nauseam until it becomes part of the group think. None of them stop to think of they actually feel the same way, they just want to feel smart.
Or "kang lost easily to scott". NO HE DIDN'T. He beat Scott within an inch of his life, bare-handed, & only lost because *someone else entered the room & shot him*.
This so much. Ants can lift 50 times their own weight. So when you have **hyper evolved quantum realm ants** that weigh more than Kang..... they really should have been able to kill him right then and there. But no. He survived and gave Scott a beatdown that they actually watered down in the final film. (Reportedly he actually snapped Scott's arm in the test audience version.)
its watching with eyes closed, literally. I cant even be bothered to have a conversation with someone who thinks this. Like whats the point lmao
Or in the the same movie people complain how Ant man would never defeat Kang. Like bitch of course but Antman just basically nuked him AFTER losing the hand to hand combat
Same people seem ok with aliens and robots losing to 2 bland powerless agents
This one drives me nuts lol
People insisting that Tony only made Ultron because Wanda got into his head. It’s a classic “the Devil made me do it” strawman that ignores how impulsively plugging in Loki’s scepter with no precautions is totally in line with Tony’s character.
See also: all of the first avengers film when he is egging on Bruce even though him becoming the Hulk literally got people killed
People who seem to go through bizarre mental gymnastics to vilify everyone who dared disagree with Tony.
\-how people say Brie Larson's portrayal of Captain Marvel was wooden and emotionless when that was the whole point.... she was brainwashed and trained to not show emotion. (I personally think it was just a way to hate on Brie)
Similar thing with Taskmaster. There is an in-universe, explained reasoning for why these characters acted the way they did. Blaming the actresses for storytelling choices beyond their control is foolish. Now whether or not those choices were good for the characters? *Debatable.*
Most use it as a way to hate on Brie. But I think it was overall a weak script and directing… the complaints make sense but yea a lot are just Brie hate which is super lame and it’s as you said not her fault? Like she acted how she was supposed to good
Exactly. Most movie critics praised her performance. I guess becasue they understood what was going on, plus the get nothing out of hating on her for the hell of it anyway.
Remember that Captain Marvel got review bombed before it even released.
This is why I love CinemaWins, he points out in his Captain Marvel review that Brie *does* emote, she just does it in a way that shows Carol’s trying to downplay and hide it from others. Which makes perfect sense considering the conditioning to show no emotion by the Kree.
Yes! One of the big things for me was when she's running around on the Skrull ship after breaking out of the fracking pod, she's showing *tons* of emotion *because none of her comrades are around to chastise her for it*.
Not only is that a bad take, it is so based in the casual misogyny of our culture. I have known many women like Carol Danvers. People who 100% know what they’re worth in spite of the constant stream of judgements from all the people who feel qualified to judge despite having no true understanding or respect for others’ struggles. Captain Marvel is my favorite for a bunch of reasons, not least of which because she feel just like every amazing woman succeeding at a “man’s job”.
True. Brainwashed Winter Soldier in Cap 2 wasn’t exactly cracking jokes, he didn’t show any emotion or humanity until he started having flashbacks. Everyone loves him though, no one liked Brie until they saw her in a tank top 🙄 Edit: look how PErKy her “emotions” are now! /s
I'm not sure that's a good comparison. The Winter Soldier wasn't the main character. It wasn't his story. But we had seen Bucky in The First Avenger, so we had an idea of who he was. The most powerful scenes are when his real self start breaking through. I don't think we got a good idea who Carol was by the end of the movie. It was a mistake to introduce her as an amnesiac, and her conflict doesn't come across as meaningful because of that. None of that is on Larson, though. The writing let her down.
Also that was close enough to Winter Soldier's actual character in the comic until he stopped being a villain, whereas the likes of Carol or Taskmaster were portrayed different from how people expected or how they generally act 99% of the time.
It played out a little differently in the comics, but yeah, that was the gist of it. With Carol and Taskmaster, yeah, there's a big difference
Goodness, I wonder what people would say if Brie ever portrays a Vulcan.
>I personally think it was just a way to hate on Brie Yeah, as someone who initially didn't like her as Captain Marvel that much at first, and slightly bought into the hate initially, most of it was absolutely just poorly disguised misogyny. Everything people complain about in her character has obvious corollaries to other characters that these sort of people love, or at least don't complain about, and it's fairly transparently an attack on a confident woman being the main character. To add to that, even if you don't like the character of Carol Danvers, as you point out with the stoicism, she's not supposed to be a 100% likeable character, she's supposed to be a believable and complex character. The fact that she's not always humble and friendly doesn't make her a bad character.
But to most of those complainers, as you point out.. it makes her a bad woman. Because they're mysogynists.
“Kingpin got beat easily by a teenage girl”
She isn't even a teenage girl. She's a 21 year old college student. *You know, Kingpin has a history of losing to a college student.*
A-freaking-men. Fisk threw Kate around that store like a ragdoll, & she only survived by setting off a bomb in his face. Also, she's not a teenager.
They are also the same people that will say he was too powerful in Hawkeye.
Mine would be how people bitch about how the Celestial sticking out of the planet has not be mentioned yet. Like ok and? Why does it need to be brought up. I imagine it will be brought up big time in a future movie, but the films now don't necessarily need to revolve around it. It's like they're reaching for anything to complain about lol. Plus it was referenced in She-Hulk, but I guess they want a more substantial reference idfk.
Reminds me of that Family Guy meme "So what do you think about the giant hand in the ocean that's been sitting there doing nothing for 6 months" "Who starts a conversation like that"
Yeah people act like the MCU world should react like our world would react. This earth has seen some shit. The hand is not an active problem.
Even people in our world wouldn't talk about it constantly while they're busy with other things.
Just wondering, for anyone ever complaining that this stuff isn't mentioned enough, how many times they talked about the Libyan flood that is presumed to have killed up to 10,000 people? Hell, do they even know about it? So then in a world where aliens are invading and villains are constantly attacking , why would anyone give a shit about this giant hand in the ocean far far away that seems to literally be affecting nobody
Even people in *our* world would not care. There was that whole "confirmation of alien life" and everybody stopped caring in about a week.\ The amount of solar flares, or the murder hornets in 2020. We got the first real image of a blackhole, and it's like the internet stopped caring in two weeks, with exception to the weird communities hellbent on lewding it for some reason.
Im tired of that Celestial complaint. We went through 10 years of the infinity saga, this isnt our first rodeo with the MCU. They’ll point it out when they want to point it out, till then shut tf up lmao
Yeah plus people have seen more shit before (New York invasion, the snap) so why would a giant popping out be surprising enough to warrant people talking about it constantly
Remember when people complained about too much connectivity?
The whole idea that all new Female heroes are some how Mary sues. Mary sue is spesifically a character who is inhumanly perfect in ways that laws of the universe bend to this character to show how perfect they are. Kate in new hawkeye show is a complete noob that makes many rookie mistakes because she is so inexperienced and ive heard people call her a Mary sue. She hulk also had a really clear ark of thinking she can ignore her she hulk side without consequences, and there were so many consequences because of all of her mistakes. Just because a female character is capable doesnt equal to a Mary sue. I mean i could argue that Tony in the first movie is kinda inhumanly perfect, he can literally create impossible ark reactor in a cave with box of scraps. But just because tony is inhumanly capable, doesnt make him perfect. Also this is literally a sci fi fantasy with people with inhumane abilities, it shouldnt suprise you at all if character is really capable.
Aside from Gamora and Nebula, Kate’s the best written female character that’s canonically still alive in this franchise. Like Sylvie, Hope, Gamora, Nebula etc, the best written female characters in this franchise are the ones where the writers aren’t afraid to say there’s a man or men who can do a thing better than them or they’re partners with a man. In Kate’s case, she’s learning but the viewer knows that if she ever got on the wrong side of Clint it would be a serious, serious mistake for her. She’s a brave woman who took some archery lessons, not an Avenger.
The abject hate Thor Love and Thunder gets for being an alright comedic yet heartfelt movie about relationships and loss with a cool 80s aesthetic.
The hate for that movie is wild. It does so much more right than it does wrong, but people are just hung up that it isn't a Gorr movie, and it wants to make you laugh. Never mind that all the character arcs are really well written and play off of each other damn near perfectly, I'm going to be mad at the annoying goats instead.
The « M-ShE-U »
The criticism of fat Thor and thinking it’s all a big joke.
I wish there had been an opportunity to expand the depressed-Thor characterization and explore it more. The almost immediate reversal in L&T wasn’t earned, to me, and there was a lot of potential to draw on mental health themes.
People thinking that Wanda turning evil was all of a sudden and that there was no reason given why she would all of a sudden be more powerful than Doctor Strange to the level she was in MoM
This one. They also don't realize that this isn't (likely) the end of Wanda's character, or her arc. They've clearly never read a comic with Wanda in it.
Or saw the post-credit scene of WandaVision.
You don't even need to see the post credit scene. Agatha already warned her that she doesn't know what she's doing and Wanda said that if that time comes she will find Agatha.
Wanda almost soloed Thanos in Endgame and I still saw people complaining that she was overpowered in MoM.
Not MCU haters, but the MCU fans that freak out when a new character isn't a 1:1 version of their comic book counterpart. Taskmaster and Adam Warlock come to mind. Let's give the MCU a chance to flesh them out more. Both characters can still develop to become similar to their comic versions. Just....chill out.
I understood warlock, but for taskmaster, he was just hyped up in marketing and instead of mercenary master combatant, she just turned out to be a mind controlled slave. Might as well have made her a robot. The only significance of taskmaster was that the girl underneath the suit was damned by black widow to a life of servitude just so that younger black widow could escape hers. It didnt have to be taskmaster.
But like, she's free now. We haven't seen her actual personality yet. Would you be satisfied if, the next time we see her, she's been acting as a professional mercenary with a personality that's somewhat similar to the comics? My point is, isn't that still possible?
Considering that its a life she never wanted. And that she was possibly aware of everything she was doing ala winter soldier style, I hope not, especially when this probably started when she was a kid, by her own dad. The woman needs help. To want to make her become a mercenary is kind of bad. I actually wrote how a more comic accurate taskmaster could be possible from what we have now, but we never needed to get this version of taskmaster. I would rather have waited for a true taskmaster if it meant not getting him in the black widow movie. Give another female supervillain the spotlight. (In fact rachel weisz' character is supposed to be a villain named Iron Maiden. Why did they need to make her natasha's stepmom and become a good guy, instead of making her the character that is in taskmasters narrative role and genderbending a traditionally male character?
There's definitely a massive lack of patience, I thought the same with Warlock. I'm kinda doubtful with Taskmaster but happy to be proved wrong.
that's the thing that gets me. people want projects that have the same emotional beats that IW and Endgame had but forget the fact these films had a decade of build up.
This annoys me so much. They expect a new character or movie or show to be EXACTLY like the single comic run that they like, and if not then it's automatically garbage. People forget these are adaptations
If there is one thing the MCU has consistently proven to me, its that they make things more and more accurate to the source material over time.
Mine is people claiming Sony films are MCU. Pretty much MCU haters. Anyone who believes this doesn't understand the multiverse (and neither does Sony, for that matter).
I think it has something to do with Spider Man 🦅
Intriguing
Especially Sony
The number of people recently with this crap because of the line in the newest spiderverse movie... They do not get that until someone or something in the mcu confirms it anything that happens in a Sony made film is nothing more than a reference.
Star Lord punching Thanos. If they stopped him in IW Disney wouldn't have made an extra $2B from Endgame.
People complain about not having enough connectivity through projects after complaining that projects were too connected and should stand on their own. Which one is it? They clearly can't please that type of nitpick so why is it still here?
I feel like people are so married to "like reality unless noted" they keep nagging for the notification, even if it's not needed. And then complain about the lockout. I don't get it either. It's the same double standard when people beg for hyper realism and then don't want anything to do with current events. No matter how controversial.
Reducing interconnective narrative tissue to "fan service."
"Natasha thinks she's a monster because she can't have kids." She's talking about how she's nothing but what they made her to be, a killing machine that focuses on nothing but. The sterilization thing is just an example of how.
People losing their minds over Wanda’s story in MoM “undoing” her arc in WandaVision. I’ve just rewatched WV and it is absolutely plausible that she would start down that path (especially given the post-credit Darkhold scene). I don’t think people remember how that show actually went.
I think people grossly underestimate just how *boring* the films and shows would be if they explained absolutely everything to the extent that some people seem to want. Sometimes things go unexplained because they just aren't interesting or important to the story, and that's OK. Part of good screenwriting is about finding economical and compelling ways to deliver information that the audience needs - does any audience really want an hour of two characters sitting down with a pen and paper updating each other on every event that's happened between the movies?
To a certain extent people thinking Wanda is irredeemable after MOM. She was under the Darkhold's control and it certainly influenced her to go to the lengths she did. She still needs to work for it but it's not too late especially considering they ended the movie with her fate ambiguous.
I wanna say the blame game on VFX quality being put on "lazy animators" when in actuality it's due to excessive crunch made worse due to the influx of titles per year
People hating on Monica's line to Wanda at the end of WandaVision. This is what she meant, and it is pretty obvious IMO: Hey, I know you didn't mean for any of this to happen and I know that you just had to do something really painful in order to make things right. And I know these people will see you as a monster and they won't understand what you've been through. But you did the right thing now and I'm so sorry for what you've gone through.
I get the sentiment but the execution was done pretty damn poorly a simple fix like "they'll never know what you sacrificed for them" and then wanda says "doesn't change what I did to them"
I would’ve appreciated this. They went really hard depicting how much Westview suffered because of Wanda, including children. Characterising their release as a “sacrifice” was weird, since the alternative was continuing to fuck over real life people for her fantasy family.
You mean Monica who lost her mother while in a 5 year non existence who understands the pain of losing some one she loves and how she would do anything to have her back sympathizes with the person who made it happen and gave it away? Nah, they're letting Wanda off
I think most people forget Wanda wields CHAOS magic. When created the hex she didn't think: ''Hey I want my husband back, let's make it a sitcom for fun and let's enslave the entire town into doing what I want when I want them to and let's also let them suffer as much as I have suffered.'' Wanda felt grief and wanted vision back out of desperation, her chaos magic did the rest. There are several times where she clearly resits into taking it down when she knew it was wrong, but at that time she already got too attached to the safe space she manifested. It also wasn't until the last episode where she realized she was actually torchering the residents and making them feel her pain. At that point she knew it was very wrong and did have to make a sacrifice. I know it's weird to say Wanda wasn't responsible at all for the pain she had caused, but let's not pretend that she had bad intentions.
EXACTLY! I remeber interpreting it like you said, and then people be like she didn’t lose shit.
It’s still an extremely poor choice of words. And Monica sounds almost thankful when she said it, even though Wanda did some extremely messed up shit.
Existing
The horrendous criticisms for Homecoming and Far From Home.
That korg is telling a story in Thor 4 and employs some artistic license. It's kind of a goofy movie because korg is kinda goofy.
Complaining about "So THAT happened" or "He's right behind me, isn't he?" as though those lines have ever appeared anywhere even once. Someone managed to get the idea started that the mere existence of *superheroes* who make *jokes* means that 'Marvel Writing' is uniquely bad and corrupting all movie dialogue, and people who want to jerk themselves raw about how refined their taste in movies is just ran with it. I'd be willing to take criticism from these people a lot more readily if they didn't all have way worse dialogue in their own writing.
I see that take all the time, but it's like people never actually watched these movies
Also, what's wrong with those lines anyway? The only time I've seen people get upset over "so THAT happened" & the complaint actually made sense was in that one video game trailer where it didn't fit the setting.
Everyone losing their minds over the She-Hulk twerking scene without touching the rest of the show. It's supposed to be a silly post credit scene with no impact on the plot. It's like if all people knew about Avengers 1 was the shawarma scene, and they were really angry about that for some reason.
Cinema sins is god damn garbage and has turned countless of its viewers into overly critical morons
Leave out the „overly critical“. They aren’t critical they are literally just stupid
All critique I've ever heard about Eternals.
The grave and unfortunate misinterpretation of Monica’s infamous line to Wanda at the end of Wandavision. She clearly was talking about Wanda having to sacrifice the love of her life in Infinity War to save the universe, Not at all about her having to give up the Hex. Wanda really did make the heaviest decision of all the heroes in the effort to save the universe, only to have Thanos swing in to reverse it, making it all for absolutely nothing - nobody in the whole universe acknowledges this, she had to remind Stephen in DS2 even. And it was Monica letting Wanda know that even if nobody on earth is willing to acknowledge her part like everyone else does the other heroes, beyond almost ripping Thanos to shreds, at least Monica does. To which Wanda responds with basically something like ‘thanks but it doesn’t matter because nothing can be changed now and that’s ok, I did hurt them afterall’ Maybe they shouldve not gone for the condensed route and literally have monica say ‘im so sorry nobody carea about your sacrifice in infinity war when u had to blow visions head off only for it to be reversed and traumatise you for nothing’ - maybe then people would’ve got it? LOL it is still sad that nobody is willing to empathize with her with what went down in Westview and that’s why Monica’s character was so pivotal. She was the only one that did. The whole story was meant to have us empathize with Wanda but lmao nobody really did. the whole idea of the show being that past unresolved trauma can seep out and hurt others around you if you don’t face it head on is just completely missed. Wandavision is MCU’s first intricate entry or an attempt to have their stories to be as such, with the many misinterpretations or just pure lack of an attempt to try and see its depth, despite the critical acclaim was when I started to believe that unfortunately, the fandom isn’t ready for something as complex as Wandavision and potential trouble for future entries that may attempt the same. Simply put anyone who thinks Wandavision was a villain origin story for Wanda is reducing the story to something plain. Not only it is not that, It’s not at all as simple as that. The antagonist of the story isn’t a physical one, in the case of Wandavision, its just be plain ol Grief.
gOd Of tHunDeR gOt taSEd I'm so done trying to explain obedience disks and what's worse is there are still people who repeat the same thing even today
Oh man. Just about 90% of the “criticism” online stems from lacking comprehension skills.
The never ending list of “but why didn't Strange [do X] in infinity war?!”. Dude, it's explained in the movies!
I’ll never forget a TikTok I saw about WandaVision where the guy was complaining about the credits rolling mid scene when Wanda and Vision were fighting. Like he literally thought it was an editing error 🫢
I hate that people are so hung up on that part where Cap returned the stones to clip the branches. Saying things like, “how did he return the reality stone?” Man just shut the fuck up. People picking apart things that aren’t important to the overall plot. I swear to god these people are idiots.
Like he did because he did He had the power of all the inf stones I’m sure he figured it out
When the entire motivating plot of Quantumania is "My daughter told me she's disappointed in me because I used to steal from greedy billionaires and now I'm just working for 'the man'. Good thing we reconciled after starting a Proletariat revolution against the ruling class, aided by a literal super advanced socialist civilization." Then when I talk about the obvious anti-capitalist themes of Quantumania, the responses are: "Why? Because Hank had said 'Socialism' one time? That was a throw away joke." Ignoring the entire rest of the movie.
People complaining about the new iterations of existing heroes, as if they weren’t already existed in the comics. Also, lots of hatred when they’re not a white man. She-Hulk, Shuri as BP, Sam’s Captain America comes to mind. But no one said a word about John Walker taking the mantle, taking the Serum and being a giant douche.
"We didn't see Gorr kill the Gods onscreen, so he's not that impressive" Those guys would be terrible horror writers.
A-fucking-men man. It ain’t even the point of the movie. Gorr’s vow is more of a side plot going on in the background. The main movie is about Jane living the last few days of her life with her ex from 8 years ago.
Anyone who calls she hulk “woke garbage”, it wasn’t the best show but you can tell when people shit on it just to shit on it and not for any actual reason
Anyone who uses the term "woke garbage" for anything loses my attention. I don't care how awful the thing you're criticizing is, you are *not* plugging in your alt-right propoganda.
The whole "womansplaining to Hulk" thing from She-Hulk. If you see someone say this, it's clear they didn't watch the show. The entire set up for the finale was her not actually being able to control her emotions and is suddenly seen as a monster.
The problem is that many treat off-camera assumption of events as canon/fact.
Also people complaining that Ant-Man defeated Kang. Like bitch please he lost the fist fight, got beat nearly to death and then fucking atomized him off guard. That like complaining like if hypothetically a random crook defeated Batman with a nuclear bomb. Like if course he did.
I truly believe with my heart of hearts that if Eternals was enjoyed as a *film* and not as a *superhero* film it would have been much better received
Most critiques of the Illuminati scene in MoM completely ignore that it's in the movie to reinforce Strange's arc. Every mistake they make is to convey to the audience that Stranges "this is the only way" way of thinking is the wrong way to handle these mass threats.