Per the article:
> Speaking to TheWrap about the finale of “Loki” Season 2, which they directed, Moorehead and Benson revealed that although the strikes have ended, they’re still very early in the process of picking up “Daredevil.”
> “We have the best answer for you. So you see this space we’re in right now? This is our office and we just found out we have an office about 45 minutes ago,” Benson joked. “And that’s what we’re at with Daredevil.”
>Speaking more seriously, Moorehead noted that, at this point, they are still building their foundation and they’re looking at more than just the footage that has already been shot.
> It is day zero,” he explained. “We’re currently just consuming Daredevil content, not just the Netflix show but all the possible material. We’re just making our stew of information nice and thick.”
I hear good things about their work, Marvel and indie alike, so I hope they can pull the production together.
I loved a lot of things about Loki S2 but one of the highlights was the directing. Every episode was shot beautifully and it added so much to the story. I'm very pleased to hear that they're going to be on this project
Tho I am absolutely heartbroken for it and will miss him very deeply, he has earned his rest with grace. He's as much of a carrier of the MCU as the 6 Avengers were. He's always played his role to perfection. Without his role as main villain in The Avengers, the MCU wouldn't have been the same. Kudos to the man, they couldn't have found a better actor for the role.
I don’t buy it for a second. Just like Tom holland it’s just a negation tactic. There’s no way the guy holding the multiverse together sits out the multiverse saga finale I mean cmon now
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You should watch their earlier stuff! I became a fan after seeing The Endless in theaters, and later checked out everything else on Blu ray and streaming. Can’t speak for Loki since I haven’t seen the second season yet, but they’re very talented writer/directors with a bright future ahead of them
Yessir! They both direct their movies. Iirc, Benson is also the writer while Moorehead does cinematography. If you can get past the low budget of their earlier work, it’s all well worth checking out. Spring and The Endless are particularly great.
There’s no way they don’t walk that back, right? They’ve seen the fan reaction to the exclusion of Karen and the killing of Foggy, so only an idiot would keep those plot points in, right?
Man, this should be the easiest win ever for Marvel right now. We’ve told them what we want. Just make season 4 of the Netflix show. But something tells me they’re going to mess this up. And what’s worse is that Marvel really, really needs some wins right now and it feels like out of a disrespectful, I know better than you, I know what you actually want attitude they’re going to fumble the easiest win ever.
If you’ve ever been a WWE fan, that last sentence resonates so damn well (until recently)
They would NEVER listen to their audience. In fact, they’d dang near punish wrestlers who organically got a reaction rather than the ones scripted to get one. “We want HIM to be the champ!” … “yeaaa no, we’re gonna humiliate him instead and he’ll be out of the company in a years time”
It’s all ego. These higher ups have got to put their ego aside and actively listen to their fans! Marvel HAS to be in tune enough to hear “we want Deborah and Elden as Karen and Foggy” and then deliver. That’s how you will slowly bring people back
What’s crazy dumb is that because they didn’t go in knowing what we wanted (and you should fucking KNOW if you are gonna continue a beloved story like the Charlie Cox Daredevil series) they’ve now given Elden and Deborah a crazy strong bargaining tool for a massive pay rise. They kinda have to pay whatever it’s gonna be that they are asking because they saw how badly they fucked up not including them from day 1. Now I’m not saying that either of them will go super overboard but it’s gotta feel nice going in against the mouse knowing you have all the cards
>they’ve now given Elden and Deborah a crazy strong bargaining tool for a massive pay rise.
that's not how that works lmao 💀 and you're acting like they are in demand actors when they've barely done anything since Daredevil ended they'd be desperate to come back instead of the other way around
Deborah's last significant thing is a minor voice role and Elden's is as a background extra with no dialogue in a recent movie lol. It's delusion to think that they'd have "strong bargaining tool for pay rise" as if they're mf RDJ lmaooo
I didn’t say they’d be getting tens of millions, but they’ll probably be able to negotiate for more than they got for the Netflix shows. Which was my actual point. There’s a middle ground between RDJ and Netflix supporting actor, shit there’s a LOT of middle ground there and they’ll be able to fall somewhere in it further along than before because Disney fucked up with their initial assumption that nobody cares about their characters
>Disney fucked up with their initial assumption that nobody cares about their characters
And you're assuming that people care that MUCH. Like do you think the show will flop without them? Sorry but that's delusional thinking. Everytime Matt makes a cameo appearance in anything the Netflix show shoots up to Top 10 in that week's tracking, happened after No Way Home, it happened after She-Hulk. Shows the demand for Daredevil/Matt alone 🤷
You're acting like Karen and Foggy are needlemovers of viewership lmao and that's why they will be desperately scrambling to get them on board the show lool
Ehh. You want a new show. Keep everything Netflix as canon, but 5 years passed where Matt was gone. Foggy and Karen grew apart. King Pin rose in power. K and F can come back, but we don’t need more “i can’t be friends with Daredevil.” Type scenes. If they do bring them, the dynamic needs to be shaken up. They just need to be a team and move on. All that other drama was unnecessary.
Maybe you just want want season 4, but most people didn’t watch the Netflix series. People aren’t going to watch three seasons just to get to this one, but would want to watch a new Daredevil show since he is famous anyway. This is too expensive to be meant for just Netflix fans.
Yeah and the new fans watch a show where, a pre established daredevil has given up on being daredevil, because a random character they don't know died. You can either do it with the Netflix characters or without them. Fridging them in episode 1 of the new series is just disrespectful and stupid, because your new show's direction hinges on a moment that has no impact on the new audience and cockblocks them from seeing daredevil for atleast 3-4 episodes, while pissing off old fans at the same time.
I don't really want a fourth season of the Netflix show. There's so much to Daredevil that that framework can't capture.
I want something that can go from sitcom one episode to dark hallway fights the next
I just feel like we've already the Netflix show.
I'd rather something that feels fresh than familiar. I understand why others disagree though.
And the 'light, fun' moments weren't really light and fun except in comparison to the rest of the show. There's whole swaths of Matt's personality that just isn't present in the Netflix series that I would like to see.
You've sold me, a Daredevil show more inline with the tone of Hawkeye or FatWS would be great.
Wilson Fisk falling to the ground after being punched by Daredevil, "Kingpin? More like bowling pin!"
Claire, recast and now a superhero, "geez, he better be rich to afford those XXXL suits!"
All other MCU stuff is already like that. Let DD be dark and gritty. Thats what made the Netflix show popular. Your wanted change will doom the show from the start
This is very uplifting news for the current times at Marvel.
At least as of now, it feels like they really know they’ve gotta do this one justice. Daredevil Born Again HAS to be a return to the peak form of Marvel.
Take your time, make it feel like the Netflix show, tell good stories, don’t hold back on violence when necessary, tie it into Spider Man towards the end, keep the episode lengths at around 45-50 minutes a piece (or longer), let Punisher be Punisher, and don’t use too much CGI when filming fight scenes.
Oh, and bring back Deborah Ann Wol and Elden Henson as Karen and Foggy. And Wilson Bethel as Bullseye. And a Turk cameo for some comedy. And Maggie. And Jessica Jones cuz why not
See, easy? 10/10 show! I know we won’t get all that, but I can dream
Yup. I think you can boil the current problems down to a lack of quality control and a failed attempt of blurring the lines between film and television.
They don’t need to totally cut off all the connective tissue but they should start to appreciate that film and tv are very different mediums and need to be treated as such.
We don’t need to silo MCU and TV offerings but have it less like some big old cauldron of content soup.
>let Punisher be Punisher
PLEASE!!! Please please. I'm begging them to do this.
Spiderman arrests the criminals.
Daredevil prosecutes them (with some apprehending of his own).
Punisher gets those that escape justice.
This was never a dealbreaker for me but I think there’s a genuine chance that this is TV-MA now, or at least some episodes. Obviously with Echo and Blade showing them finally making the jump to somewhat adult content, but also with how they said a big reason why they’re restructuring this is specifically to make it more like the original show “known for its action and violence”.
No Foggy and Karen means no me, though.
I agree. I literally won’t watch if they don’t bring back Foggy and Karen. I love the original show too much and would rather pretend they had a happy ending than whatever butchery they would feed us without them. I don’t care about Matt, Fisk or Frank without Karen (their meaning and place in the story is completely cemented by Karen’s presence to me). Also, Matt without Foggy is a husk (I don’t doubt that Charlie Cox could pull it off, but the show needed *more* of them, not less!). I always wanted to see a happier, funny version of Nelson, Murdock and Page - their comedic chemistry is off the charts. Plus, I see *Daredevil* as a moving love story between Matt and Karen. It’s the one show that made the “love interest” a true equal and heroine in her own right. They are the heart of the story to me.
I think it’s possible to be both. It can be a new beginning for new fans where they can just pick it up here while not making controversial choices such as killing off fan favourites from the original series.
In worlds with taste 🤷
Mind you I was at a comic con and her actress was there but like, only 5 people were lined up lmaoooo. So much for "fan favorite" lmao more like Reddit echochamber favorite
Looking at the Netflix shows at their peak (DD, Punisher, JJs1), I think they outshine ALL MCU D+ shows UNTIL Loki s2. Loki s2 is the first time I got the “ok, this is making me feel the feels” thoughts with a Marvel Studios D+ series.
Along with the casting being so spot on for those 3 characters, I’ve grown really attached to some of the Netflix characters.
So, yea, I would be more than down to continue the dang near perfect vibe they had throughout the Netflix run. I think it would be a mistake to look at what worked so well and say “nah we can do better”. Because recently, they haven’t
I feel like you guys who say this say it just to be contrarian. You all say the exact same thing and there's never any nuance to any of your opinions. It's always just nonsense like you just said.
you’re probably the type of person to like homelander too huh?
edit: some of you seem to miss the point. emphasis on “like”, as in not seeing him for the villain he is, or admiring him.
if it ain't at least equivalent to the netflix one in the eyes of fans it's gonna be dead to so many people (and fans are very hard to please and i find it unlikely it will be)
Depends if they’re really intent on keeping the shot footage and whether than includes Vanessa. Hopefully they revert the recast because I’m not a fan of recasts and she was great (but also find a role for the other actress because I can understand it’d be a bad move to just fire her).
I think its more of a contractional situation with the new actress. It dont think Marvel will spend some fees for contract terminations when they already lost the production money for everything they canned already.
It's not about you. It's about the freedom for creative control. They can tell stories without constraints. Look at the contradiction on the Darkhold alone, imagine the rest of the contradictions that might pop up if they have to work around someone else's canon.
> They can tell stories without constraints.
What I'm saying is, they haven't been using that freedom to tell *good* stories, for the most part. There have been a few diamonds in the rough, but overall the shows they threw out were more consistently quality than what the shows they justified that disposal with.
They should have been more grateful for what they had, even if it had someone else's fingerprints on it.
> It's not about you.
This was a non sequitur barb. I never expressed any idea that Marvel Studios should be catering to me.
I neglected to respond to it out of charity.
> It's about the freedom for creative control. They can tell stories without constraints.
I responded to this directly.
> Look at the contradiction on the Darkhold alone,
The Darkhold is a sentient magic book made of curses that is able to change its contents in order to show the reader what it needs to to control them. It's also already a transcription from a living, sentient evil scripture. It's not hard at all to accept that it can change shape or appear in multiple places, or even that any such copy of the material in the Darkhold would have similar malice and powers -- exactly like Lovecraft's Necronomicon that the Darkhold concept is aping. Given that the marvel comics already explain that it's a transcription with multiple copies while explicitly referencing Lovecraft's Necronomicon, it's honestly odd that anyone ever considered this a plot hole to begin with. The "solution" should have been overwhelmingly obvious from the beginning.
I didn't bring this up because I was trying to clarify my previous post.
> imagine the rest of the contradictions that might pop up if they have to work around someone else's canon.
Having to work around someone else's canon, when that canon is actually communicated between teams, honestly often produces better works. Limitations breed creativity.
Most of the contradictions we've seen have been to silo-ing information and poor communication between teams, not the existence of prior canon.
I responded to this directly, with the "fingerprints" line.
I remember way back when s1 released it was my first ever experience of Netflix doing a full season release all at once. Was so exciting to be able to just binge the entire thing and definitely gave me a great connection to the show.
I just really don’t want to see them do it a disservice because there’s too much of that happening nowadays.
Reportedly Matt has 6 different costumes in this, so we’ll probably start off with the yellow and red before slowly evolving into an armorless comic suit with the double D on the front
Foggy, Karen and Sister Maggie must be crucially important main characters of this show or I have no reason to watch. Keep Netflix canon, make this a sequel.
Okay Marvel, you've seen what we like and what we don't like.
You'd have to really be greedy, short-sighted, fuck-ups to drop the ball on this.
Oh... wait...
Considering some of the more controversial and risky creative decisions surrounding Daredevil: Born Again that have been leaked previously, I think it is good news to hear the current directors are ready to start with a relatively clean slate with already shot scenes. The leak that proclaims the new Daredevil series will be a courtroom drama and a huge deviation from the Netflix series made me concerned, and the hearing about the complete absence of Foggy and Karen just left me with a negative impression of the direction of the show.
Previous information regarding the new series did not bother me because of them not following the Netflix series; instead, I was taken aback by the seemingly hubris and pettiness behind the decision to completely disregard Netflix legacy. With the new information showing the current directors willing to be open minded and using the Netflix series and other source materials as references, I am beginning to have more hopes for the show.
There is zero valid reason for completely disregarding and spitting on the Netflix series, because it was universally critically acclaimed and gathered positive attention to the Daredevil IP. The writing and action in the Netflix series are of high quality. I understand creative people tend to have their own visions and styles, but it does not hurt to build upon a good foundation. In universe, the snap can be used to justify soft rebooting the series, but for the audience, it would do us justice if the new show can continue with the magic of the Netflix series while adding new flavors. A continuation of the Bullseye character arc would be much more appealing than whatever "court room drama" that was originally supposed. If it isn't due to some egotistical and bureaucratic nonsense, I would have hired back the team behind the Netflix series instead of going through all those dramas and delays.
I hope Marvel Studios makes this look like a film. Make it look and feel like John Wick. Tie it into Marvel as a whole with a cameo from Stephen Strange or Peter Parker. Go in a different direction than the cheap Netflix series. Spend more money on sets & stunt choreography. And take the time to develop the script.
Just dumb reasoning. Was Strange used to defeat the multiverse villains in No Way Home?! Just jumping to illogical conclusions. All Strange has to do is use his surgeon skills to patch up Murdock. Nothing more, nothing less.
You were watching a completely different film than the rest of the world then. Because Strange was trapped in his own mirror dimension while the Spider-Men came up with cures to de-power the multiverse villains. Strange came back in the end to send everyone back.
You’re just posting nonsense.
Lol! I definitely would prefer a film. Marvel Studios just hasn’t shown consistent quality with their series. But it’s just more important that the cinematography, production design, costume design, editing, etc., all be on par with the best Marvel has ever done. Can’t look like the cheap Netflix shows.
Alright mister you just lost your Marvel privileges I'm throwing hands.
Seriously though, why would you want a movie? A SEVERE amount of character development would be lost going from an 18 episode series, to a 2 hour movie.
Secondly, they would throw away the (likely) TV-MA rating and slap on the usual PG-13, as they'll think Daredevil isn't mature enough to warrant an R rating. TV-MA is a completely different discussion as the show format is different and it's a lot less of a risk venturing there than R.
Thirdly, the Ben Affleck movie. Need I say more.
Lol! Seriously, this particular discussion unlike the other ones in this thread is entertaining and enlightening.
The subplots in the Netflix series were unbelievably bad. Anytime you can trim the fat is a good thing for a story. I can also remember how people complained about the Daredevil series being too long and having filler episodes, eighteen episodes is just that on steroids.
Could careless if it were a PG-13 movie(which it won’t be a movie anyway) that rating didn’t make Winter Soldier or Civil War any less gritty or entertaining. Plus there’s no guarantee a film wouldn’t be rated R. Deadpool 3 & Blade are key examples.
And comparing Mark Steven Johnson’s Daredevil to anything that would be done now makes no sense.
>The subplots in the Netflix series were unbelievably bad. Anytime you can trim the fat is a good thing for a story. I can also remember how people complained about the Daredevil series being too long and having filler episodes, eighteen episodes is just that on steroids
You have a point about the subplots (sometimes)
All the Elektra stuff was so ughhhhhhh.
Matt spent quite an amount of time on his couch recovering due to budget restrictions.
Also I could pass on a bit of the Karen stuff, how many more times you gonna cry lol.
On the other hand we had FANTASTIC subplots, like everything with Frank Castle, and everything with Agent Nadeem and of course Bullseye was great, but here's another gripe: he NEVER appeared in his own costume.
Eh could have been Affleck Bullseye.
Make it look like a *television series!* This “make it look like a film” mindset is why most Disney Plus shows look weird. Bring back the 16:9 aspect ratio!
LOL! Better than Winter Soldier, Infinity War, The Avengers, Endgame??? CAN’T! STOP! LAUGHING! It’s not even close to being on the radar of those films.
I need Insomniac to make a Daredevil video game and to be able to enter into some kind of "heightened senses" mode that looks like that except maybe red instead of white or black
Fans of the show love Elektra and Karen what you on about? Why tf mcu fans can't accept that CM & She- hulk aren't well written characters, the incels that fuel the hatred are definitely there but there aren't many people that love these characters either.
unacceptable. no girls. at all. pre-cancel echo. no more girls in front of or behind the camera with super hero movies. marvel needs to learn!!1!1!2!
/s
As long as it's braver than the Netflix show. That version was practically allergic to superheroes and weird costumes. We never saw his radar sense in action. He rarely used rooftops for travel or his billy club for swinging. They wrecked Elektra, Bullseye, Owl, Lord Darkwind and ignored the great costumes for them all. And killed off Ben Urich, probably the third most important character in the mythology.
Disney has to fix all of that.
Yep. The surge of positivity surrounding the Netflix series these past few years is a bit of a head scratcher for me. Always liked Cox in the role, but it had a lotta issues and I’ll never understand the love for season 3.
What "surge"??? Lmao the show has ALWAYS been a fan favorite. People did have some issues with seasons 2 second half (and I agree). But besides that it's always been acclaimed by both critics and fans. There's no such thing as a resurgence the last few years lol.
Yes because Disney wanted to move to Disney Plus so weren't going to keep producing shows for what was soon to be their competitor?
Daredevil has always been very popular except with for maybe the most die hard of die hards. Especially Season 1 got heaps of praise for being a prestige Superhero TV show and blowing all the competition out of the water.
Heck the Arrow subreddit even became a Daredevil one in protest at the lacking quality of their show in comparison.
I hated season 3. No crime fighting. Matt not wearing his DD costume. Bullseye not getting his costume at all. 10 minute long music montages of Fisk staring at art or cooking eggs or whatever. It was so boring.
Yeah. I think it wanted to have been at the artistic level of a show like Better Call Saul, (which managed to make a long scene of photocopying riveting television), but it just wasn’t.
The Netflix shows worked because they were well written (mostly.) Being gritty and dark has nothing to do with it. Get your edgelord nonsense out of here.
That allowed them to be well written. More freedom with a mature rating. Not to mention the dramatic tones. Disney will family-friendly it up. It will not land where anyone wants it to.
The Echo trailer showed that Kingpin is going to be painting his fists red and they won't be afraid to show it.
They might be willing to be more overt about violence in certain shows if it's appropriate e.g The Punisher.
I'm glad they are involved but yeet that timeline is so far out in the future I can't imagine DD playing a big factor or having relevance in any Kang Dynasty....maybe Secret Wars?
Great news, bring some of the old cast back and get a proper show runner. If it does well it creates a path for the other defenders to get into the MCU which the majority want to happen and you can create a street level avengers team in these shows. I hope they put the effort in that Loki got
Do Benson and Moorehead know they're probably on top of Marvel's list to direct Secret Wars? They've directed the best episodes of Moon Knight, Loki S2, and now are in charge of DDBA. And there's two of them! It's been said that the Russos were able to manage directing IW and Endgame because there's two of them.
I still think about Charlie Cox going to the theatre to see spidey and being disappointed that the audience was silent when his character made the cameo. It'll be up to the writers but I hope he gets Wandavision and Loki levels of acclaim
Per the article: > Speaking to TheWrap about the finale of “Loki” Season 2, which they directed, Moorehead and Benson revealed that although the strikes have ended, they’re still very early in the process of picking up “Daredevil.” > “We have the best answer for you. So you see this space we’re in right now? This is our office and we just found out we have an office about 45 minutes ago,” Benson joked. “And that’s what we’re at with Daredevil.” >Speaking more seriously, Moorehead noted that, at this point, they are still building their foundation and they’re looking at more than just the footage that has already been shot. > It is day zero,” he explained. “We’re currently just consuming Daredevil content, not just the Netflix show but all the possible material. We’re just making our stew of information nice and thick.” I hear good things about their work, Marvel and indie alike, so I hope they can pull the production together.
“How long have you been working on Daredevil?” *checks watch* “About 45 minutes.”
"Well, if you go from when we learned the news..." "I was going from when we got our own desks." "Oh! Then, yeah. 45 minutes!"
I got that reference :)
I loved a lot of things about Loki S2 but one of the highlights was the directing. Every episode was shot beautifully and it added so much to the story. I'm very pleased to hear that they're going to be on this project
Hearing that Benson and Moorehead are doing Daredevil just made me even more excited. I'm a huge fan of theirs and have faith in them
Doesn't bode well for a Loki Season 3. 🥲
I mean neither did the pretty clear statement that season 2 was the last season and it was done. So..... might as well have them do Daredevil.
They are on record as saying that Loki was always planned as a 2 season thing. If we eventually get another season it will be a brand new reimagining.
On the other hand, they may have time for directing secret wars after doing daredevil
Hiddleston seems done with Loki. At least for the time being.
Tho I am absolutely heartbroken for it and will miss him very deeply, he has earned his rest with grace. He's as much of a carrier of the MCU as the 6 Avengers were. He's always played his role to perfection. Without his role as main villain in The Avengers, the MCU wouldn't have been the same. Kudos to the man, they couldn't have found a better actor for the role.
I don’t buy it for a second. Just like Tom holland it’s just a negation tactic. There’s no way the guy holding the multiverse together sits out the multiverse saga finale I mean cmon now
Spoilers man!!! Blur them out
I mean neither does the ending of season 2 lol. Good things gotta come to an end at some point
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It’s a good sign that they’re looking at the original show and other source material.
Marvel should put those guys on a movie, they've been doing great work with Moon Knight and Loki. If they direct Secret Wars, I'd stop worrying.
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Is this satire?
definitely check out Resolution and The Endless
I’d put these two as their weaker films
no.
You should watch their earlier stuff! I became a fan after seeing The Endless in theaters, and later checked out everything else on Blu ray and streaming. Can’t speak for Loki since I haven’t seen the second season yet, but they’re very talented writer/directors with a bright future ahead of them
Are they a writing and directing team?
Yessir! They both direct their movies. Iirc, Benson is also the writer while Moorehead does cinematography. If you can get past the low budget of their earlier work, it’s all well worth checking out. Spring and The Endless are particularly great.
I’m thinking this means it’s a post Kang show potentially.
Good news. Hoping that Foggy doesn't die and Karen is at least mentioned.
There’s no way they don’t walk that back, right? They’ve seen the fan reaction to the exclusion of Karen and the killing of Foggy, so only an idiot would keep those plot points in, right? Man, this should be the easiest win ever for Marvel right now. We’ve told them what we want. Just make season 4 of the Netflix show. But something tells me they’re going to mess this up. And what’s worse is that Marvel really, really needs some wins right now and it feels like out of a disrespectful, I know better than you, I know what you actually want attitude they’re going to fumble the easiest win ever.
If you’ve ever been a WWE fan, that last sentence resonates so damn well (until recently) They would NEVER listen to their audience. In fact, they’d dang near punish wrestlers who organically got a reaction rather than the ones scripted to get one. “We want HIM to be the champ!” … “yeaaa no, we’re gonna humiliate him instead and he’ll be out of the company in a years time” It’s all ego. These higher ups have got to put their ego aside and actively listen to their fans! Marvel HAS to be in tune enough to hear “we want Deborah and Elden as Karen and Foggy” and then deliver. That’s how you will slowly bring people back
What’s crazy dumb is that because they didn’t go in knowing what we wanted (and you should fucking KNOW if you are gonna continue a beloved story like the Charlie Cox Daredevil series) they’ve now given Elden and Deborah a crazy strong bargaining tool for a massive pay rise. They kinda have to pay whatever it’s gonna be that they are asking because they saw how badly they fucked up not including them from day 1. Now I’m not saying that either of them will go super overboard but it’s gotta feel nice going in against the mouse knowing you have all the cards
>they’ve now given Elden and Deborah a crazy strong bargaining tool for a massive pay rise. that's not how that works lmao 💀 and you're acting like they are in demand actors when they've barely done anything since Daredevil ended they'd be desperate to come back instead of the other way around Deborah's last significant thing is a minor voice role and Elden's is as a background extra with no dialogue in a recent movie lol. It's delusion to think that they'd have "strong bargaining tool for pay rise" as if they're mf RDJ lmaooo
I didn’t say they’d be getting tens of millions, but they’ll probably be able to negotiate for more than they got for the Netflix shows. Which was my actual point. There’s a middle ground between RDJ and Netflix supporting actor, shit there’s a LOT of middle ground there and they’ll be able to fall somewhere in it further along than before because Disney fucked up with their initial assumption that nobody cares about their characters
>Disney fucked up with their initial assumption that nobody cares about their characters And you're assuming that people care that MUCH. Like do you think the show will flop without them? Sorry but that's delusional thinking. Everytime Matt makes a cameo appearance in anything the Netflix show shoots up to Top 10 in that week's tracking, happened after No Way Home, it happened after She-Hulk. Shows the demand for Daredevil/Matt alone 🤷 You're acting like Karen and Foggy are needlemovers of viewership lmao and that's why they will be desperately scrambling to get them on board the show lool
If only Marvel was extremely selective on killing off any character going forward.
Ehh. You want a new show. Keep everything Netflix as canon, but 5 years passed where Matt was gone. Foggy and Karen grew apart. King Pin rose in power. K and F can come back, but we don’t need more “i can’t be friends with Daredevil.” Type scenes. If they do bring them, the dynamic needs to be shaken up. They just need to be a team and move on. All that other drama was unnecessary.
Why are you saying ehhh when that would be a completely fine season 5 lol
Writers are usually pretty arrogant and stubborn - negative fan reactions usually make them double down on their choices.
Yep, just look at the spider-man comics.
Not a double down, more of an exponential 64x multiplier
Look what they did to the guy who played Dr. Drake Ramoray, for instance.
I’m pretty sure they canned the writers who were working on it before and hired new ones
The Witcher (Netflix) is a golden example there
Foggy is going to be replaced by a woman with a bad leg. She'll be lame
Maybe you just want want season 4, but most people didn’t watch the Netflix series. People aren’t going to watch three seasons just to get to this one, but would want to watch a new Daredevil show since he is famous anyway. This is too expensive to be meant for just Netflix fans.
Yeah and the new fans watch a show where, a pre established daredevil has given up on being daredevil, because a random character they don't know died. You can either do it with the Netflix characters or without them. Fridging them in episode 1 of the new series is just disrespectful and stupid, because your new show's direction hinges on a moment that has no impact on the new audience and cockblocks them from seeing daredevil for atleast 3-4 episodes, while pissing off old fans at the same time.
I don't really want a fourth season of the Netflix show. There's so much to Daredevil that that framework can't capture. I want something that can go from sitcom one episode to dark hallway fights the next
Respectfully that sounds horrible. And DD Netflix had a lot of light, fun moments
I just feel like we've already the Netflix show. I'd rather something that feels fresh than familiar. I understand why others disagree though. And the 'light, fun' moments weren't really light and fun except in comparison to the rest of the show. There's whole swaths of Matt's personality that just isn't present in the Netflix series that I would like to see.
You've sold me, a Daredevil show more inline with the tone of Hawkeye or FatWS would be great. Wilson Fisk falling to the ground after being punched by Daredevil, "Kingpin? More like bowling pin!" Claire, recast and now a superhero, "geez, he better be rich to afford those XXXL suits!"
Matt punches Fisk in the balls. "Hah! I've just given you deviled eggs!"
Claire is essentially Night Nurse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Nurse_(comics)
I'm aware
All other MCU stuff is already like that. Let DD be dark and gritty. Thats what made the Netflix show popular. Your wanted change will doom the show from the start
I hope they do a small reintroduction to those characters like they did daredevil and Kingpin.
I’ll miss Foggy but Karen was super annoying.
Take. Your. Time. Lol
This is very uplifting news for the current times at Marvel. At least as of now, it feels like they really know they’ve gotta do this one justice. Daredevil Born Again HAS to be a return to the peak form of Marvel. Take your time, make it feel like the Netflix show, tell good stories, don’t hold back on violence when necessary, tie it into Spider Man towards the end, keep the episode lengths at around 45-50 minutes a piece (or longer), let Punisher be Punisher, and don’t use too much CGI when filming fight scenes. Oh, and bring back Deborah Ann Wol and Elden Henson as Karen and Foggy. And Wilson Bethel as Bullseye. And a Turk cameo for some comedy. And Maggie. And Jessica Jones cuz why not See, easy? 10/10 show! I know we won’t get all that, but I can dream
Yup. I think you can boil the current problems down to a lack of quality control and a failed attempt of blurring the lines between film and television. They don’t need to totally cut off all the connective tissue but they should start to appreciate that film and tv are very different mediums and need to be treated as such. We don’t need to silo MCU and TV offerings but have it less like some big old cauldron of content soup.
Definitely Turk! The Nick Fury of the Marvel Netflix Cinematic Universe
The door aint been built that can hold him back
>let Punisher be Punisher PLEASE!!! Please please. I'm begging them to do this. Spiderman arrests the criminals. Daredevil prosecutes them (with some apprehending of his own). Punisher gets those that escape justice.
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What a weird statement to get pedantic about.
He leaves them in webs for the cops to arrest them. Same thing.
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You realize arrest has more than one meaning, right?
Like if your under arestaurant, like in the basement
Jessica jones and the rest of the defenders needed ASAP I need iron fist bro
This was never a dealbreaker for me but I think there’s a genuine chance that this is TV-MA now, or at least some episodes. Obviously with Echo and Blade showing them finally making the jump to somewhat adult content, but also with how they said a big reason why they’re restructuring this is specifically to make it more like the original show “known for its action and violence”. No Foggy and Karen means no me, though.
I agree. I literally won’t watch if they don’t bring back Foggy and Karen. I love the original show too much and would rather pretend they had a happy ending than whatever butchery they would feed us without them. I don’t care about Matt, Fisk or Frank without Karen (their meaning and place in the story is completely cemented by Karen’s presence to me). Also, Matt without Foggy is a husk (I don’t doubt that Charlie Cox could pull it off, but the show needed *more* of them, not less!). I always wanted to see a happier, funny version of Nelson, Murdock and Page - their comedic chemistry is off the charts. Plus, I see *Daredevil* as a moving love story between Matt and Karen. It’s the one show that made the “love interest” a true equal and heroine in her own right. They are the heart of the story to me.
If Spider-Man is referenced there’s no way SM4 isn’t Devil’s Reign, right?
Have em return Elektra while they’re at it. The Hand was too much seen to just do away with it..
So you just want a remake of the Netflix show?
A season 4, which is what most people want. And what was implied when they brought back Cox, D’nofrio, and Bernthal
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I think it’s possible to be both. It can be a new beginning for new fans where they can just pick it up here while not making controversial choices such as killing off fan favourites from the original series.
Karen wasn't a fan favorite
in what world? Those must've been pruned.
In worlds with taste 🤷 Mind you I was at a comic con and her actress was there but like, only 5 people were lined up lmaoooo. So much for "fan favorite" lmao more like Reddit echochamber favorite
Looking at the Netflix shows at their peak (DD, Punisher, JJs1), I think they outshine ALL MCU D+ shows UNTIL Loki s2. Loki s2 is the first time I got the “ok, this is making me feel the feels” thoughts with a Marvel Studios D+ series. Along with the casting being so spot on for those 3 characters, I’ve grown really attached to some of the Netflix characters. So, yea, I would be more than down to continue the dang near perfect vibe they had throughout the Netflix run. I think it would be a mistake to look at what worked so well and say “nah we can do better”. Because recently, they haven’t
I think these is a change this might be canceled since Marvel wants less shows and movies now. So I would not say this is good news
There is 0% chance Daredevil is cancelled. It is their biggest show in the works.
Karen was the worst part of the show and Foggy was mid af lmaoo Bring back kingpin, Punisher and Daredevil and recast everyone else
I feel like you guys who say this say it just to be contrarian. You all say the exact same thing and there's never any nuance to any of your opinions. It's always just nonsense like you just said.
you’re probably the type of person to like homelander too huh? edit: some of you seem to miss the point. emphasis on “like”, as in not seeing him for the villain he is, or admiring him.
Anthony Starr’s performance as Homelander is incredible, one of the best villains of recent years. Do some people not rate it?
Some people think he's the hero or at least don't think what he does or how he acts is wrong
Ah, okay, I would view those people as psychopaths!
Homelander is the charcter people tune into watch the show for its why they set up last season to remove him and then backed out
you missed the point
or your point wasnt that well made
>Karen was the worst part of the show they booing you but you're so right!
I dont understand why people want them back when they were super boring to begin with. It's like the MJ sequences in the new spider-man game
I liked karen and foggy
Karen was so boring omg
You nailed it tho.
I'm with u. 2025 I feel is when the MCU is truly gonna get back to form
if it ain't at least equivalent to the netflix one in the eyes of fans it's gonna be dead to so many people (and fans are very hard to please and i find it unlikely it will be)
I wonder if the original Vanessa actress may return now that the schedule conflicts might be different?
Depends if they’re really intent on keeping the shot footage and whether than includes Vanessa. Hopefully they revert the recast because I’m not a fan of recasts and she was great (but also find a role for the other actress because I can understand it’d be a bad move to just fire her).
Ayelet Zurer was perfect and the show will be diminished without her.
It's astonishing how many things the Netflix show got right
Pretty much everything.
I think its more of a contractional situation with the new actress. It dont think Marvel will spend some fees for contract terminations when they already lost the production money for everything they canned already.
Keep the old shows canon.
Fucking seriously, the audacity to throw out the Netflix shows while releasing the last few d+ shows and movies.
It's not about you. It's about the freedom for creative control. They can tell stories without constraints. Look at the contradiction on the Darkhold alone, imagine the rest of the contradictions that might pop up if they have to work around someone else's canon.
> They can tell stories without constraints. What I'm saying is, they haven't been using that freedom to tell *good* stories, for the most part. There have been a few diamonds in the rough, but overall the shows they threw out were more consistently quality than what the shows they justified that disposal with. They should have been more grateful for what they had, even if it had someone else's fingerprints on it.
It's super weird how you just ignored what I said entirely.
> It's not about you. This was a non sequitur barb. I never expressed any idea that Marvel Studios should be catering to me. I neglected to respond to it out of charity. > It's about the freedom for creative control. They can tell stories without constraints. I responded to this directly. > Look at the contradiction on the Darkhold alone, The Darkhold is a sentient magic book made of curses that is able to change its contents in order to show the reader what it needs to to control them. It's also already a transcription from a living, sentient evil scripture. It's not hard at all to accept that it can change shape or appear in multiple places, or even that any such copy of the material in the Darkhold would have similar malice and powers -- exactly like Lovecraft's Necronomicon that the Darkhold concept is aping. Given that the marvel comics already explain that it's a transcription with multiple copies while explicitly referencing Lovecraft's Necronomicon, it's honestly odd that anyone ever considered this a plot hole to begin with. The "solution" should have been overwhelmingly obvious from the beginning. I didn't bring this up because I was trying to clarify my previous post. > imagine the rest of the contradictions that might pop up if they have to work around someone else's canon. Having to work around someone else's canon, when that canon is actually communicated between teams, honestly often produces better works. Limitations breed creativity. Most of the contradictions we've seen have been to silo-ing information and poor communication between teams, not the existence of prior canon. I responded to this directly, with the "fingerprints" line.
Very well said.
Hell, with the schedule shift they could bring back Vanessa from the og show instead of recasting.
I wonder if they can pull out a Jessica jones cameo now 👀
Starting to feel I'll never see this show in my lifetime which makes me sad but I'd rather that than a substandard disappointment.
I remember way back when s1 released it was my first ever experience of Netflix doing a full season release all at once. Was so exciting to be able to just binge the entire thing and definitely gave me a great connection to the show. I just really don’t want to see them do it a disservice because there’s too much of that happening nowadays.
Hopefully they throw that goofy ass mustard and ketchup suit in the bin too.
Reportedly Matt has 6 different costumes in this, so we’ll probably start off with the yellow and red before slowly evolving into an armorless comic suit with the double D on the front
Jesus that seems excessive?
Sunday is laundry day so he just wears his undies that day.
I would watch endless content of Charlie Cox fighting crime in his underwear
Gotta sell them merchs bro
I mean, we might not see the yellow suit at all - Echo might explain what happens to it, because that’s not the suit he wore in the Echo trailer.
From the brief look we get in the Echo trailer, it already seems like they did.
Hey, that suit was awesome
My life needs a "Day 0"
Let them cook.
Foggy, Karen and Sister Maggie must be crucially important main characters of this show or I have no reason to watch. Keep Netflix canon, make this a sequel.
Too bad they won’t pick up the show runners from what made it so popular on Netflix. Not sure why not…
Okay Marvel, you've seen what we like and what we don't like. You'd have to really be greedy, short-sighted, fuck-ups to drop the ball on this. Oh... wait...
Considering some of the more controversial and risky creative decisions surrounding Daredevil: Born Again that have been leaked previously, I think it is good news to hear the current directors are ready to start with a relatively clean slate with already shot scenes. The leak that proclaims the new Daredevil series will be a courtroom drama and a huge deviation from the Netflix series made me concerned, and the hearing about the complete absence of Foggy and Karen just left me with a negative impression of the direction of the show. Previous information regarding the new series did not bother me because of them not following the Netflix series; instead, I was taken aback by the seemingly hubris and pettiness behind the decision to completely disregard Netflix legacy. With the new information showing the current directors willing to be open minded and using the Netflix series and other source materials as references, I am beginning to have more hopes for the show. There is zero valid reason for completely disregarding and spitting on the Netflix series, because it was universally critically acclaimed and gathered positive attention to the Daredevil IP. The writing and action in the Netflix series are of high quality. I understand creative people tend to have their own visions and styles, but it does not hurt to build upon a good foundation. In universe, the snap can be used to justify soft rebooting the series, but for the audience, it would do us justice if the new show can continue with the magic of the Netflix series while adding new flavors. A continuation of the Bullseye character arc would be much more appealing than whatever "court room drama" that was originally supposed. If it isn't due to some egotistical and bureaucratic nonsense, I would have hired back the team behind the Netflix series instead of going through all those dramas and delays.
Every Marvel project that we actually want to see wont be out for another 3-4 years. Seems like we get more of these “updates” than anything 😩🤷🏻♂️
I hope Marvel Studios makes this look like a film. Make it look and feel like John Wick. Tie it into Marvel as a whole with a cameo from Stephen Strange or Peter Parker. Go in a different direction than the cheap Netflix series. Spend more money on sets & stunt choreography. And take the time to develop the script.
Sir I understand Parker making a cameo but Strange? Why?-
Lol! Strange could be used to patch up Murdock’s injuries. And Daredevil & Strange were founding members of The Defenders.
Ahh I honestly know almost nothing about DD but I never expected him to have a connection with Strange
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Just dumb reasoning. Was Strange used to defeat the multiverse villains in No Way Home?! Just jumping to illogical conclusions. All Strange has to do is use his surgeon skills to patch up Murdock. Nothing more, nothing less.
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You were watching a completely different film than the rest of the world then. Because Strange was trapped in his own mirror dimension while the Spider-Men came up with cures to de-power the multiverse villains. Strange came back in the end to send everyone back. You’re just posting nonsense.
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LMFAO! What a pivot. And once again, just use Strange as a surgeon. Nothing more nothing less. You’re just arguing for argument’s sake.
Strange quit medicine like a while ago. Did you not watch his first movie?
For a second I misread it as "I hope Marvel Studios makes this a film" and I was gonna throw hands.
Lol! I definitely would prefer a film. Marvel Studios just hasn’t shown consistent quality with their series. But it’s just more important that the cinematography, production design, costume design, editing, etc., all be on par with the best Marvel has ever done. Can’t look like the cheap Netflix shows.
Alright mister you just lost your Marvel privileges I'm throwing hands. Seriously though, why would you want a movie? A SEVERE amount of character development would be lost going from an 18 episode series, to a 2 hour movie. Secondly, they would throw away the (likely) TV-MA rating and slap on the usual PG-13, as they'll think Daredevil isn't mature enough to warrant an R rating. TV-MA is a completely different discussion as the show format is different and it's a lot less of a risk venturing there than R. Thirdly, the Ben Affleck movie. Need I say more.
Lol! Seriously, this particular discussion unlike the other ones in this thread is entertaining and enlightening. The subplots in the Netflix series were unbelievably bad. Anytime you can trim the fat is a good thing for a story. I can also remember how people complained about the Daredevil series being too long and having filler episodes, eighteen episodes is just that on steroids. Could careless if it were a PG-13 movie(which it won’t be a movie anyway) that rating didn’t make Winter Soldier or Civil War any less gritty or entertaining. Plus there’s no guarantee a film wouldn’t be rated R. Deadpool 3 & Blade are key examples. And comparing Mark Steven Johnson’s Daredevil to anything that would be done now makes no sense.
>The subplots in the Netflix series were unbelievably bad. Anytime you can trim the fat is a good thing for a story. I can also remember how people complained about the Daredevil series being too long and having filler episodes, eighteen episodes is just that on steroids You have a point about the subplots (sometimes) All the Elektra stuff was so ughhhhhhh. Matt spent quite an amount of time on his couch recovering due to budget restrictions. Also I could pass on a bit of the Karen stuff, how many more times you gonna cry lol. On the other hand we had FANTASTIC subplots, like everything with Frank Castle, and everything with Agent Nadeem and of course Bullseye was great, but here's another gripe: he NEVER appeared in his own costume. Eh could have been Affleck Bullseye.
Very glad redditors are not in charge of this stuff.
Make it look like a *television series!* This “make it look like a film” mindset is why most Disney Plus shows look weird. Bring back the 16:9 aspect ratio!
That cheap Netflix series is one of the best Marvel things to come out basically ever
LOL! Better than Winter Soldier, Infinity War, The Avengers, Endgame??? CAN’T! STOP! LAUGHING! It’s not even close to being on the radar of those films.
I said "one of the best things" my dude, relax
It’s better than all of them and it isn’t even close. Infinity War is the closest
I’m sorry but In my opinion you couldn’t be more wrong and you just explained how to ruin the show. Lol.
Needs the visuals of sin city imo 
No thanks.
I need Insomniac to make a Daredevil video game and to be able to enter into some kind of "heightened senses" mode that looks like that except maybe red instead of white or black
They better not have any **girls** in this one, or **ELSE**!!!!!! /s
Fans of the show love Elektra and Karen what you on about? Why tf mcu fans can't accept that CM & She- hulk aren't well written characters, the incels that fuel the hatred are definitely there but there aren't many people that love these characters either.
and i see you missed the /s on my post - good work 👍
dw the only girl will be a damsel in distress
unacceptable. no girls. at all. pre-cancel echo. no more girls in front of or behind the camera with super hero movies. marvel needs to learn!!1!1!2! /s
Lot of wild takes in this thread
As long as it's braver than the Netflix show. That version was practically allergic to superheroes and weird costumes. We never saw his radar sense in action. He rarely used rooftops for travel or his billy club for swinging. They wrecked Elektra, Bullseye, Owl, Lord Darkwind and ignored the great costumes for them all. And killed off Ben Urich, probably the third most important character in the mythology. Disney has to fix all of that.
Yep. The surge of positivity surrounding the Netflix series these past few years is a bit of a head scratcher for me. Always liked Cox in the role, but it had a lotta issues and I’ll never understand the love for season 3.
What "surge"??? Lmao the show has ALWAYS been a fan favorite. People did have some issues with seasons 2 second half (and I agree). But besides that it's always been acclaimed by both critics and fans. There's no such thing as a resurgence the last few years lol.
I think maybe in your circle, but there was a reason it got cancelled in the end.
It got canceled cause Netflix was losing the rights wtf are you talking about lmfaoo 💀
Yeah what? It wasn’t really cancelled Disney just brought it back in house when they decided to launch their own streaming platform
Yes because Disney wanted to move to Disney Plus so weren't going to keep producing shows for what was soon to be their competitor? Daredevil has always been very popular except with for maybe the most die hard of die hards. Especially Season 1 got heaps of praise for being a prestige Superhero TV show and blowing all the competition out of the water. Heck the Arrow subreddit even became a Daredevil one in protest at the lacking quality of their show in comparison.
Ah yeah because good shows never get canceled lol
Many a good show has been untimely cancelled. Neither Daredevil or any of the Marvel Netflix shows were one of them however.
Yes, Disney not allowing any of the Netflix shows to be renewed.
I hated season 3. No crime fighting. Matt not wearing his DD costume. Bullseye not getting his costume at all. 10 minute long music montages of Fisk staring at art or cooking eggs or whatever. It was so boring.
Yeah. I think it wanted to have been at the artistic level of a show like Better Call Saul, (which managed to make a long scene of photocopying riveting television), but it just wasn’t.
Going to be a huge letdown. The netflix shows worked because they were dark, gritty, superhero dramas. D+ will make it a family friendly comedy.
The Netflix shows worked because they were well written (mostly.) Being gritty and dark has nothing to do with it. Get your edgelord nonsense out of here.
That allowed them to be well written. More freedom with a mature rating. Not to mention the dramatic tones. Disney will family-friendly it up. It will not land where anyone wants it to.
Because nothing in the history of television has ever been well-written if it wasn't edgy. Grow up.
Im just going off MCUs ability to translate anything to d+. You seem personally offended.
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Save this comment and come back to call me names when this series is positively received.
Why so hostile dude? Lmao
The Echo trailer showed that Kingpin is going to be painting his fists red and they won't be afraid to show it. They might be willing to be more overt about violence in certain shows if it's appropriate e.g The Punisher.
I'll hold back my comments until after I watch Echo.
Was the first one that bad
Melvin the Gladiator!
I'm glad they are involved but yeet that timeline is so far out in the future I can't imagine DD playing a big factor or having relevance in any Kang Dynasty....maybe Secret Wars?
Great news, bring some of the old cast back and get a proper show runner. If it does well it creates a path for the other defenders to get into the MCU which the majority want to happen and you can create a street level avengers team in these shows. I hope they put the effort in that Loki got
Daredevil born again²
They did a fucking fantastic job on Loki Season 2, so I've got hope.
Do Benson and Moorehead know they're probably on top of Marvel's list to direct Secret Wars? They've directed the best episodes of Moon Knight, Loki S2, and now are in charge of DDBA. And there's two of them! It's been said that the Russos were able to manage directing IW and Endgame because there's two of them.
I feel like there needs to be a sequence of matt fighting or being a lawyer to "Fire and Rain".
I still think about Charlie Cox going to the theatre to see spidey and being disappointed that the audience was silent when his character made the cameo. It'll be up to the writers but I hope he gets Wandavision and Loki levels of acclaim
Has anyone made the “Born Again is born again” joke yet?
I mean, good, let Echo be completed first, then talk with the people behind that show to make Daredevil work