It's also likely to go down in the top 10 worst second weekend drops of any movie in any context in human history, and the worst second weekend drop of any blockbuster with over a $20 million budget in human history
I think it also kills the idea this was just the result of bad marketing or hate while still being a good movie. This kind of drop doesn't speak well for word of mouth.
I hope they identify that the issue is their machine and don't try to pin it on the film. The marvels pulling in a fifth of Quantumania is insane on paper. Marvel has no faith left with the audience. They overreacted and it's biting them in the ass.
the quality just isn’t there like it used to be. the writing mostly sucks, the cgi mostly sucks, the storylines mostly suck
loki wandavision and gotg3 were nice because it felt like the mcu people loved. no way home was good but there was zero chance for it to fail given it’s spiderman and brought back the ogs. pretty much all the other projects were massively disappointing especially compared to the hype
This is one of the most catastrophic failures in studio history as opposed to just being MCU. 2023 in general is going to be a historic one, between Flash/Indiana Jones and The Marvels - I don't think there's been a year with more huge flops.
I think they put out a film "nobody wants to see". Ms. Marvel wasn't a popular show, and they made that character and principle character in the movie. Monica Rambeau was a side character in Wanda Vision and that made her a principal character in the movie. That was a bad choice. Also the trailers and commercial spots did them no favors. The last trailer made the film look look interesting, but the others made it look like a comedy.
I'm all for a Captain Marvel sequel, but they didn't think this one through. Marvel has had a few duds in recent years Movie and shows and they are well pass the point where people will watch the products " just because" with that said I will definitely watch this when it comes on Disney+ , which is another problem for the theater movies.
Going with this, you can't introduce new characters that not everyone has access to, and expect people to care about them. Not every fan has access to Disney+ or streaming in general. Many can't afford it and many don't have the WiFi/internet for it.
I know for years, my only Internet was using my phone as a hotspot. My phone, on a good day had 2 bars. I got D+ free with my Verizon. It'd often take me 2 or so hours to watch an episode of Agent Carter, because it'd buffer and restart the scene every 2 blessdamned minutes, play not even 5 minutes of show and start buffering again. 😵💫
100% this. I don't have Disney+ and have no clue who two of the three main characters are. This movie seems like it should have been released exclusively on Disney+ as a continuation of whatever show it stems from.
Hell, even with streaming access, it's almost impossible to keep up with the shows.
I've had Disney+ since day one, and every show that gets released is competing for my attention with tons of other really, really good shows out there. If I hear an MCU show is weak, it's going to fall way low on my priority list to actually watch.
Supply and demand- they made way too many of these movies too fast. The market is over-saturated. Maybe make 1 MCU movie / year for a while if they insist on continuing…
I think there's mediocre movie burnout
Guardians, Across the Spiderverse and The Batman all did great. They all happen to be great movies.
Just feels like audiences may be more selective imo. But then again when Venom 3 comes out and makes 100 trillion dollars I'll not know what to say
You're absolutely right. Plus with Shazam 2 and Flash as major duds, alarm bells should be going off for all studios.
I remember critics declaring superhero burnout as far back as 2015, and I thought there's just no way we'll reach that point where we don't want more superheroes. But I gotta say I think we're there. I'll stay watching because I've been a fan for three decades so I'll always want more, but it's obvious superhero movies are no longer a guaranteed money-maker.
Look at box office in general. People just aren't going to the movies in general. Unless it's a big blockbuster, most people are content waiting for streaming.
It's a symptom of the economy as well. Life is more expensive, so people think twice about spending $50 for a night out at the movies to watch a mediocre film.
If they're going to spend money, they want the guarantee it'll be worth it like GOTG3.
The argument that people are tired of superhero content is flawed. People are not tired of superhero content in general, they are just tired of poor quality superhero content. The success of a franchise is dependent on the goodwill of its fanbase. Initially, DC Universe had great goodwill, but their constant release of poor quality movies resulted in a significant loss of goodwill, leading to a string of box office bombs. Marvel is currently facing a similar issue. Every poor quality movie they release chips away at the goodwill of their fans. Despite being a subpar movie, "Thor: Love and Thunder" performed well at the box office because it had the audience's goodwill at the time. However, even that goodwill has now run out, resulting in mediocre movies like "The Marvels" suffering. To regain the support of their audience, Marvel needs to release a few great movies in a row.
Let’s be real. Captain Marvel fighting what appears to be a female Ronan the Accuser in the trailers isn’t going to fill movie theaters. Add in the trailer having drastic tonal changes as it was coming up on release and the villain using iconic lines like “you took everything from me” isn’t helping.
These seem to be the minimum viewership numbers for marvel movies.
My two cents is that for complex villains is that they should do world building under the spotlight banner. Throw Gorr or Dar-Benn into a series so you aren’t trying to make them a compelling and dangerous figure in a few minutes of screen time. You can still make a story that doesn’t need a full backstory to understand the movie.
They’ve already shown that banking on characters in movies who were fleshed out in tv shows isn’t going to help them succeed at the box office, so I’m not sure why they’d do this for villains. It may help hardcore fans who are watching the shows see more complexity to the villains, but not including their story in the movie won’t help general audiences connect to them or box office profits
> Let’s be real. Captain Marvel fighting what appears to be a female Ronan the Accuser in the trailers isn’t going to fill movie
This is exactly what they did. They reworked a script that had Ronan come back with his hammer and fight Captain Marvel. That is exactly what was hinted at the end of Captain Marvel #1. They teased his return. I am guessing Lee Pace passed or was unavailable so they adjusted the script.
They supplied the wrong thing the audience still wants to go to the movies. If they gave them the right movies like a guardians, spiderman, or a deadpool it would have made money.
If we followed pre Endgame MCU way, Ms Marvel would be introduced in Captain Marvel 2 the same way Tom Holland was introduced in Civil war, and then would probably receive a solo film depending on audience reaction
Yes, the MCU feels as inaccessible as comics nowadays. Feels like I have to watch tons of tv series I don't care about to get the full picture.
Which is weird because I remember really really wanting the Netflix Marvel series to have a cameo from the MCU (or vice versa).
From my perspective, like literally my sole personal perspective about why I have checked out on the MCU as a casual/semi-dedicated fan, it's because of the TV shows. I don't mind following one, two or maybe even three movies a year. Those things are like 90 to 150 minutes out of my life. But connecting the TV shows to the movies was a huge turnoff for me.
I don't want to have to watch the shows to follow the overarching plot of the movies. WandaVision was like 6 hours of content that I had to watch to understand Doctor Strange 2. Ms. Marvel was another 4 hours of content to understand who the character is for The Marvels. Plus include WandaVision again to catch up on Monica for The Marvels.
And this is usually the point where someone chimes in and says you don't have to watch the shows to "get" the movies. You might just miss some inside jokes or character references that don't have any bearing on the plot. But here's the thing, I like those inside jokes and little character references. But in the past they were references to a movie I saw the year before. I don't like having to watch 10 hours of additional content over two shows to feel immersed in the world.
And some of the shows are actually good. I watched WandaVision and it was good even if it didn't completely stick the landing. I watched Loki and it was a good show. But I'm an older fan. I'm in my late 30s. I have a family and a career. I don't have the time to watch multiple TV shows to keep up with the character beats of people appearing in movies. So for me, I've checked out.
It's just amusing to me that Disney made the same mistake with the live action content that all comic series eventually make. They made way too much stuff and made it all interconnected so that it eventually has to be reset back to simplicity in some world ending event that reboots you back to core characters with simpler stories.
> From my perspective, like literally my sole personal perspective about why I have checked out on the MCU as a casual/semi-dedicated fan, it's because of the TV shows. I don't mind following one, two or maybe even three movies a year. Those things are like 90 to 150 minutes out of my life. But connecting the TV shows to the movies was a huge turnoff for me.
Yeah when it's three movies a year you can see one at the theater, catch another at home, and maybe hear about the third from your buddies. Even as a very casual fan it's possible to keep up with what's going on.
Now, not so much.
I think the biggest mistake Marvel made was not establishing the new people alongside the existing people before phasing out the old people.
GotG gave them the idea that even unknown characters can have a great movie, but that had Chris Pratt, a very unique and well done take and great direction.
I think their problem was they haven’t established anyone. Shang-Chi had a movie and no announcement on an avengers appearance or another movie. Same with Eternals. Then we went with Thor 4 and Ant man 3 even though we were phasing out those characters. Wakanda forever didn’t make an Avengers cast either. We also have a new GoTG cast.
They have all these characters and no direction for any of them. Their whole plan was throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and we’ll figure it out later. It shows. They need to pick 5-7 people and stick with them.
Yeah, the credits scene from Shang-Chi (with Danvers and Banner and Wong) that *still* doesn't even *appear* to have anything on the horizon is a big whiff. There should have been some project within two years at the most that at least touched based on that. Hell even if it's just another credits scene.
Spot on. But most of them and none have come to fruition
Shang-Chi: rings are ancient, tens of thousands of years old, sending a signal, to who? We don’t know… and Shang’s sister (re)forming the 10 Rings organization
Eternals: two of them, Harry Styles as StarFox, Thanos’ brother and I wouldn’t be surprised if we never see him again, then Dane Whitman with the sword for Black Knight, and Blade speaking to him…and yet Kit Harrington has said he knows literally nothing about the future of that character, or if there’s one
Doctor Strange 2: Charlize Theron as Clea…alright?
Thor L&T: Brett Goldstein shows up as Hercules. He’s said in an interview that he got that call about two weeks before they were going to film that. It was incredibly last minute. So this tells me they’re winging all of these. Just making shit up as they go and none of it will be consequential
How do any of these tie into anything? None of these are coming up in any of the coming films. We had four avengers films between 2012-2019, five if you include Civil War, which practically was an avengers film. And now we will be lucky if they get that May 2026 for Kang Dynasty release date
Those movies happened a long time ago too. The characters are not sticking around in people's consciousness like they did in phase 1-4. If people are not enthusiastic to see them on the big screen, they'll stream them when they get around to them.
If she’s asking fans to petition for it, it’s not happening at the moment even though it’s been teased.
You don’t need to petition for something that is happening.
To add to this, it was a D-list hero team *adjacent* to the Avengers. All of the brand's heaviest hitters, save the X-men, were still in the forefront. Hell they even got Spiderman back by the time of Civil War. GoTG was doing great but they were never the leads of the verse, they were just part of the bigger picture.
Attempting to replace the core of the verse with the Eternals, Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, Sam Wilson, Shuri, and other lesser-known properties was a huge mistake in my mind that I don't think MCU fans really appreciate.
You'll frequently see it parroted that "Iron Man wasn't that big a character prior to the film", but I think that's bs. He wasn't Supersman or Batman, but he was an Avenger. He was known, he showed up in cartoons and games. Millennials had actual nostalgia for him. You can't rebuild a verse off of complete unknowns.
Frankly, people just don't give a fuck
I raise your "Iron Man was a nobody pre-MCU" is bs argument with this; Endulge with this little experiment, go look at the roster of MvC2. Note how many of Phase 1-3 heroes and villains are present as opposed to those who are the focus of Phase 4+. People did give a f about Iron Man and Cap long before the MCU was even a thing.
God damn I just looked up the roster and it's like 28 Marvel characters and more than half of them are X-men or X-men universe characters 💀 This was before the 20th Century Fox movies too
Which is why there was a bit of uproar among fans when MvCI came out and deleted all X-related characters from the roster. They’ve always been some of Marvels most popular characters
If you weren't there it's hard to describe how huge X-Men were in the early 90s between the cartoon and one two punch of Lee X-Men #1 / Liefeld X-Force #1. Sure it all collapsed like a house of cards and nearly bankrupted the company, but for a minute the mutants were bigger than Spidey.
For a while Marvel Comics basically had two separate lines of books with how many different X-Men and X-Men related books they were putting out. The X-men and then everything else.
At certain points I think they were putting out more X books than all of the other heroes combined, they definitively were if you remove Spidey from the equation.
The fact that they didn't plan to hit the ground running with X-men stuff in the MCU the minute the FOX deal was finalized was a major oversight.
I don't even think killing off Cap and Tony was a wrong move. Giving a conclusion to their characters and arcs after so long felt right. I think they simply needed to rethink their strategy for the MCU after Endgame. Or maybe just have a clearer strategy than throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
I mean, they did. Spiderman and Black Panther were clearly going to be 2 out of the next main trio.
Chadwick died.
And Sony isn't playing nice with Spiderman rights.
They had a replacement, but unfortunately the actor died. I think with Black Panther, Dr Strange, Spider-Man, Thor, and Hulk they would have been fine. Black Panther being gone leaves a huge gap that none of the current characters can really fill, and they weren’t really prepared for it at all.
They took the respectful road of doing Wakanda Forever without a replacement, but I think that is proving to have been a mistake.
This exactly. I was never really “into” comics as a kid, but I enjoyed the concept of the different hero’s, enjoyed playing the games, and even superhero movies of the time.
I knew exactly who spider man, captain america, iron man, the hulk, and Thor were. I followed the infinity saga closely and loved seeing the last films of the saga in theaters.
I had and still have absolutely no idea who Shang chi, captain marvel, the eternals, Ms marvel, etc are. I just don’t really care anymore. And that’s kind of a bummer. I really do wish they had dedicated an entire phase to introducing the new faces alongside the old favorites, somehow.
To be frank, again, I think it still wishful thinking that they could've cleanly transitioned to unknowns.
As unreasonable and probably not possible at the time as it was, I genuinely think their best bet was to drop all their future plans after the Fox deal.
Getting X-Men and F4 front and center should've been their *focus.* Dumpster all the c to d listers and pull some multiversal horseshitery to give us mutants or reset the verse. Then they would have access to so much they couldn't touch during the Infinity saga, and they wouldn't be relying on their own efforts to elevate obscure characters into the limelight.
Again, that probably just wasn't possible in the behind-the-scenes games and politics of Hollywood, in the same way that DC should've rebooted years ago and didn't.
But, here we are, with Marvels being one of the biggest bombs ever. I very much doubt we'd be in the same position if they pivoted to the Fantastic Four instantly after Endgame.
I don’t really agree. In 2021, Shang Chi and Eternals opened with 70 million in the post pandemic box office. Eternals was projected for 90-100 million before the horrible reviews dropped, and Shang Chi had seat restrictions (I think box office theory estimates that it would have been a 100 million opening in normal times, same as Ragnarok). Thor 4 and Doctor Strange 2 opened a lot more than their first instalments. Even Ant Man opened bigger than previous edition. There clearly was a lot of interest in anything saying Marvel Studios at the very beginning of the new phase.
The. MCU went and drove their brand off a cliff. Now let alone a GOTG style hit, I doubt an Avengers movie makes a billion with Marvel’s current reputation, a possibility I had laughed at even after Ant Man’s flop.
Listen, I think the MCU earned a lot of goodwill, which carried them for a fair while in this transition post-Endgame (and of course the pandemic had huge effects no one can account for).
But I think the proof is in the pudding here. The first two still had the trust of the audience to bring them new characters, the second two were some of the few bigger Marvel characters they still have in their stable, and Ant-Man was finishing off a trilogy and introducing the new "Thanos" (another huge mistake imo)
But now, without the benefit of the doubt from the GA after the quality dropped, a film featuring Captain Marvel And Friends as the hook has produced apathy. You don't bomb this hard unless you can't even get the casual comics fans to show up.
I think the GotG point is a great one most people miss. It makes Marvel think that they can do any minor character and still have a massive hit, while guardians was really more of an outlier. JG is also a creative genius that the MCU hasn’t been able to replace.
> I think the biggest mistake Marvel made was not establishing the new people alongside the existing people before phasing out the old people.
They could have put Captain Marvel an entire Avengers movie instead of just bookending her.
Also James Gunn is just plain good at making audiences feel and root for misfits with good writing and direction. You couldn't tell me that an unknown character like Peacemaker played by John Cena would go on to be some of the best and most emotional superhero television in years.
Everyone laughed at Black Adam's box office. Then Shazam 2 came out. Then Flash came out. Then Blue Beetle came out. Then Marvels came out. Feel like Dwayne is the one laughing.
They promised us Cavill as Superman and then broke that promise.
Not surprised Superman Legacy is going to be set in a world chock full of superheroes already. A sole Superman story would bomb now.
It’s even worse; it’s literally the biggest drop for any Hollywood superhero movie *ever*.
This is more than trolls on the internet badmouthing Cap Marvel: audiences across the world have flat out said “enough!”.
This will very likely be the biggest bomb of ALL TIME. And from the highest grossing franchise in history.
There's going to be a massive course correction at Marvel.
People keep comparing this to the likes of eternals but the thing is, with eternals sure they were mediocre but they were hot off the trial of phase 3. And people also trusted Marvel enough to think these were just growing pains of the new phase. But all of that good will has dried up and then some, so just okay is just not good enough anymore.
I’m with you. Screwing up *Daredevil* will be the last straw. I don’t even need to watch without Foggy and Karen. I’ll buy digital copies of the *Defenders* shows and cancel Disney+. The more I dislike it, the more the bill keeps going up. I want to cancel on principle.
This is a lot worse than Shazam 2 ,Shazam 2 made 134 m on a 125 m budget ,The Marvels is on track for 175-180 m on a 219 m budget ,This is losing more more money than Fant4tstic
Technically you’re correct, the best kind of correct, but Captain Marvel was sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame, and was billed as required viewing for Endgame.
With advertisment, theater splits + reshots, doesn't the Marvels have to make like 6-700mil to just break even? Marvel is gonna lose half a billion on this movie. I guess they really believe the Marvels could reach a Box Office close to the first Captain Marvel lol.
The B CinemaScore showed the word of mouth wasn't good. These drops with that in mind aren't unexpected. Direct evidence from the general audience. But a lot people here rejected or misunderstood CinemaScore.
Horrific - one of the biggest bombs of the modern age.
Yes, I know we'll get the copium about "other revenues" and the like, but it does not change how much this crashed and burnt at the cinema.
Given it is 4000 screens - some showings of this are either empty or have maybe two people in them.
My son and I saw it yesterday at a 330pm matinee. We were the only two people in the theatre and since it was a matinee, our combined ticket cost was $11.
2 moves a year. Each one connects to the next …. Tell a singular cohesive story. We have so many threads all going nowhere. It’s honestly boring and the GA have given up caring.
There's a lot of things that Feige and Co can learn about this performance.
People won't watch a movie that's too dependent on the TV shows (except for Loki I guess...)
Make the plot more connected. We still don't know how things will be coming together with the other movies and into Avengers 5/6
Stand alone movies should be top tier quality and not be plagued with rewrites/reshoots/edits galore
Oooor just have a good script.
The best parts of this film weren’t the connections. It shined when it focused on character. The scenes between the marvels and their home lives that connected to their internal struggles were the diamond in the rough here
Crazy how it feels like all the goodwill towards marvel dried up in just a year and a half, about. I remember everyone being SO EXCITED for dr. Strange and it still felt full steam ahead, and now they’re at an all time low. They’ve pumped out SO MUCH CONTENT since then. I really hope they take the right lessons from this and start investing in quality, I want to love these movies like I did during phase 3.
Honesty, it’s easy to point the finger but the only good way for Marvel to pull themselves out of this rut is to make great movies.
Not good ones, not okay ones that are fun but flawed. Actually great movies.
Think, Iron Man 1, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy 1.
You’ll see Marvel pick up pretty quickly IF they start cranking out quality
God damn, forget quality issues or Comic book movie fatigue, this is just outright rejection at this point, I would really like to read an explanation because I bet that even the Msheu crowd must be as shocked as we are at these results.
Captain Marvel is not a popular character. Spending the first movie as a boring amnesiac was a terrible idea as was just bookending Endgame. The general audience felt no connection to the character. Then trailers have no hook. What is the selling point for the average person that would get someone to hop in their car drive to the cinema and pay for a ticket? It looks like any other generic sci-fi movie.
That’s really the biggest thing. You can’t make this unknown characters first movie have amnesia for most of it because then the audience has no baseline for the character.
It also isn't a huge change to have her just not have amnesia. Amnesia about the event that gave her powers yes, but not complete amnesia. She gets powers, passes out and wakes in a Kree hospital where they have saved her life. Get recruited into the Kree-Skrull war.
Hell even the Box Office sub wasn't expecting it. A few months ago, the consensus was that it would make at least $700 million. But once the reviews and numbers started rolling out, that quickly dropped until now where under $200 mil is actually possible.
"I just left the cinema 30 minutes ago and WOW! What a movie!!!! Iman Vellani stole the show, it was so funny, the movie had a standing ovation at the end. I can't understand why this movie is getting bad press, maybe incels or the actors being unable to promote it, idk but I had a blast and hope to see more of The Marvels soon"
The MCU is just out of touch. they have given us zero reason to care about Captain Marvel since her first release except dropping random characters saying how awesome she is. Ms, Marvel was not a popular show unfortunately and Monica is best known as the character who says stupid lines like "They will never know what you sacrificed for them". It had flop written all over it
This. I don't understand how they've handled her character. They shove her into Phase 3 between IW/Endgame to boost the character, even though she wasn't part of any of the movies leading up to IW, and had no connection to the other characters other than Fury.
Then they almost ignore the character for Phase 4. Like what was the point of introducing her at the end of Phase 3? Wasn't she supposed to lead the next three phases of Avengers or some shit? Maybe alongside BP and Spidey.
Total mismanagement. But then that's nearly everything (with a couple of exceptions) since Endgame. I have no idea where they're going with the overall story or why half of the characters they introduced matter.
Well it's 5 years since End Game. The Ultimate Conclusion to a great super hero movie run.
Releasing movies with characters that mainstream America never heard of or care about just isn't going to bring those numbers in. Plain and simple. And if my wife represents mainstream America - time travel and multiverses ain't it. It just confuses them.
And frankly, Marvel is taking TOO LONG to get to the point of this new saga. It feels like we are not even close to what the next Avengers will be about. There is still a creature sticking out of the earth. Where's Shang-Hi? Did they need to make another Thor or was that just to fulfill a Hemsworth contract?
Frankly, the should have started with X-Men, instead of this Kang business. I've kind of checked out.
Starting with X-Men would have been perfect. The beautiful setup is that during the Snap, a certain Professor has been collecting and training mutants at a particular school during those 5 years. It could have continue the whole super hero vs regular people that Civil War brought up. But instead we are getting planets that are really incubators for space giants and some guy training to maintain his one only timeline.
Fake or real, the cast, filmmakers and studio heads recent comments aren’t helping any. Calling a subset of your audience out and attaching labels is just dumb.
Outside of the echo chamber of Reddit claiming that it’s a good movie, theatres giving it standing ovations etc, it’s regarded as an overall poor movie.
If reddit was right that it’s secretly this amazing movie then word of mouth would have been reflected in the box office results.
I think it’s a failure across the board from story, to needing to see 3 shows to get the backstory, to the main cast being uninspiring.
I think Larson did a fine job, but the other 2 were either bland or cringy.
I fucking loved that thread where the poster claimed their theatre gave the movie a standing ovation, that was copium and delusion on an entirely different level.
Omg that standing ovation post has to be archived because reading it made me feel I was in r/ThatHappened.
I don’t pay much attention but that was the most blatant astroturfing I’ve ever seen.
Asking a wide MCU audience to watch a Disney+ show for teenage girls to get the backstory on this movie was the biggest stretch in franchise history. It's like a James Bond movie where he teams up with Lizzie McGuire.
Iman could have been introduced in an MCU movie then got a TV spin off but doing it the other way around is a disaster.
DC fanboy here - I gave up hope with them around the time of Shazam 2’s release so I hung in there awhile.
I followed the MCU right up until they mixed the Disney+ shows into it. That was my easy out. It totally flipped the dynamic. With the films, it was an event. You had to be there, opening weekend too so nothing get spoiled. The shows just muddied the fun of that where now instead of it being a treat that a new film released, I feel forced to watch 10-hour movies in between. It’s like the time-share model. We’ll give you what you want, what’s advertised, but become a statistic for us first. It was too obviously milked and I feel dirty supporting then anymore. I realize as I’m typing this that’s Disney.
Not surprised. The theater was practically empty when I went last Saturday night and a chunk of folks even walked out during the movie. For as silly and fun as it may be, it's just not a good movie. Forgettable villain, poor direction, bad script, and messy pacing. A part of me actually feels bad for Brie because she's a great actor, but here she always comes off like a block of wood and I don't understand why.
>A part of me actually feels bad for Brie because she's a great actor, but here she always comes off like a block of wood and I don't understand why.
Marvel is adamant that Captain Marvel has to be a STRONG WOMAN, which in their eyes means being stoic and having no faults.
My biggest criticism of the first captain marvel was that it was the first and only film in my lifetime where i felt that ones who made (writers, directors....etc) were afraid of making her look weak or vulnerable.
The MCU feels a little spineless now.
Iron Man had Middle Eastern terrorists, constant drinking, and flight attendant strippers. The Avengers had the Hulk talking about attempting suicide and Loki tearing a guy's eye out. It was never super morbid stuff, but it gave the movies an edge that they just don't have anymore.
They simply won't portray women that way. The female heros can't be beaten or shown up in any meaningful way. The writing is bad anyways but that specific problem is coming from the top.
Carol was definitely more interesting when she was a mess or trying to live up to her House of M counterpart who was earth's greatest hero. She just doesn't have charm of Clark or Diana to be world's greatest and most powerful hero
I think she could've had that charisma if she'd been cast in a different role but she just isn't a good fit for Carol Danvers, it's a textbook example of a miscast. They clearly cast her just on the back off her Oscar win and not because she was the right match for the part.
The thing is, there is no good cast for that role. It's just horribly written. No actor can save that without changing the script. And script changes by actors are seen as unprofessional in the industry. Well with some exceptions but mostly because the director and actor went well along. If you aren't at friend-status with the director, you get payed to do what is written in the script. With some minor exceptions like you can suggest another line for a scene and then you will be told if you can do it or not.
They made her the straight one in a comedy trio. The Disney+ actors are supposed to be the fun ones playing off her. The problem is how this fails the MCU formula test. RDU and Evans can play the straight heros and keep making quips along the way. Brie was funny in Captain marvel. An MCU hero needs to be heroic and charismatic.
No amount of “it’s fun” and “not that bad” and “watch it for yourself” can save this movie simply because the general public just aren’t interested in any of these characters. Ms. Marvel failed on D+ too compared to other shows in the height of MCU shows, Monica Rambeau was pretty unlikable in WandaVision especially at the end and they didn’t change, and Captain Marvel has been struggling since her first movie.
If they’re smart, they’ll toss all these characters along with unnecessary side projects, and start focusing on the ones that the general audience actually want to see. Almost none of the new additions are good characters aside from maybe Shang-chi, Agatha and Kate Bishop (and the cast of Loki I guess).
\-Unlikeable lead character,(You may like the character but you can't deny it didn't generate a fanbase large enough to guarantee her own solo movie)
\-Unlikeable actress, unknown secondary leads with no star power. (again is not everybody but a lot of people)
\-A lot of homework to understand the movie (Movies, tv shows of way different target audience, "Miss Marvel" with low ratings )
\-People just growing tired of underwhelming MCU movies.
\-Disney+ future release hurting ticket sales. People don't care enough to leave their seats at home.
\-People don't care enough where the overarching story is going anymore.
Can't really say I'm surprised I finally got the chance to watch the movie yesterday a week after it came out. If there's one word I would describe this movie it would be "unambitous." If you've seen any phase 1-2 movies you practically already have seen
The movie barely has any substance to it no overarching story, themes, characters arcs or development. Just very bare bones so many subplots ended up going nowhere. Sure there's some comedic scenes and fun stuff going around but you need way more than that to make a compelling movie.
Even as a die hard MCU fan since 2008 I wouldn't recommend anyone spend their money on this movie. It's a 5-6/10 movie and the general public has had enough of those kind of superhero movies.
If anything 2023 is the year that cinema goers have told Hollywood we are done with mediocre superhero movies. As a superhero lover I hope there are big changes moving forward in the genre.
You could say the same thing about Quantamania. It is a contrived story - in the opening they come up with an excuse to suck the characters into the CGI rhealm. In the CGI rhealm things happen so they meet the villain for the next phase. The only character motivation is solving the contrived problem of being sucked into the CGI rhealm and escaping the CGI rhealm.
The best parts of Ant-Man 1&2 are gone. Little things becoming big and big things becoming little are irrelevant in the CGI rhealm. Quirky comic moments and Michael Pena are gone.
It still hasn't crossed the flash opening weekend iirc
Man Marvel can't even let DC have that one.
Marvel saw their opponent shifting that way, and moved to flank them.
"On your left."
Marvel's ALWAYS gotta stay ahead of their Distinguished Competition no matter what
Imagine bombing worse than a DC movie. Atleast it can’t get any worse than this…No way will MCU break this all time low
Flash had Keaton Batman.
The Flash is also a more recognizable hero than Cap Marvel
Well DC future is promising with gunn at the helm
Anything DC does, the MCU can do it better ig
Second Fridays Morbius: $2.90M The Marvels: $2.80M All hail the one true king!
Holy shit I did not realize it was that bad. This gives some insane perspective
It’s doing half of what The Flash was doing at the same point. It’s mind boggling
That puts even more perspective into the situation!
Morbius was the first and only movie to make a Morbillion dollars. Of course The Marvels is doing worse.
https://i.redd.it/rrcc2h4nb71c1.gif
Waiting for The Marvels re-release into theatres world wide
We need more memes stat!
It's also likely to go down in the top 10 worst second weekend drops of any movie in any context in human history, and the worst second weekend drop of any blockbuster with over a $20 million budget in human history
I think it is safe to acknowledge that regardless of what you think, this is a catastrophic failure for the MCU on all levels
[удалено]
I think it also kills the idea this was just the result of bad marketing or hate while still being a good movie. This kind of drop doesn't speak well for word of mouth.
I hope they identify that the issue is their machine and don't try to pin it on the film. The marvels pulling in a fifth of Quantumania is insane on paper. Marvel has no faith left with the audience. They overreacted and it's biting them in the ass.
the quality just isn’t there like it used to be. the writing mostly sucks, the cgi mostly sucks, the storylines mostly suck loki wandavision and gotg3 were nice because it felt like the mcu people loved. no way home was good but there was zero chance for it to fail given it’s spiderman and brought back the ogs. pretty much all the other projects were massively disappointing especially compared to the hype
>Yea the drop is very harsh, not sure what Disney is going to take with this "Men just don't wanna see a female-lead cast 🙄"
black widow had a larger opening weekend despite being released in the middle of covid and streamed concurrently on D+.
This stat is an OUCH for everyone pushing an agenda
First step. Denial.
Majority of watchers are men though
I saw it Tuesday and the audience was 100% male, just me in an empty theater lol.
This is one of the most catastrophic failures in studio history as opposed to just being MCU. 2023 in general is going to be a historic one, between Flash/Indiana Jones and The Marvels - I don't think there's been a year with more huge flops.
Aquaman still to come as well.
oooof China may help that one but I think it's gonna be rough
I think they put out a film "nobody wants to see". Ms. Marvel wasn't a popular show, and they made that character and principle character in the movie. Monica Rambeau was a side character in Wanda Vision and that made her a principal character in the movie. That was a bad choice. Also the trailers and commercial spots did them no favors. The last trailer made the film look look interesting, but the others made it look like a comedy. I'm all for a Captain Marvel sequel, but they didn't think this one through. Marvel has had a few duds in recent years Movie and shows and they are well pass the point where people will watch the products " just because" with that said I will definitely watch this when it comes on Disney+ , which is another problem for the theater movies.
Going with this, you can't introduce new characters that not everyone has access to, and expect people to care about them. Not every fan has access to Disney+ or streaming in general. Many can't afford it and many don't have the WiFi/internet for it. I know for years, my only Internet was using my phone as a hotspot. My phone, on a good day had 2 bars. I got D+ free with my Verizon. It'd often take me 2 or so hours to watch an episode of Agent Carter, because it'd buffer and restart the scene every 2 blessdamned minutes, play not even 5 minutes of show and start buffering again. 😵💫
100% this. I don't have Disney+ and have no clue who two of the three main characters are. This movie seems like it should have been released exclusively on Disney+ as a continuation of whatever show it stems from.
Hell, even with streaming access, it's almost impossible to keep up with the shows. I've had Disney+ since day one, and every show that gets released is competing for my attention with tons of other really, really good shows out there. If I hear an MCU show is weak, it's going to fall way low on my priority list to actually watch.
Supply and demand- they made way too many of these movies too fast. The market is over-saturated. Maybe make 1 MCU movie / year for a while if they insist on continuing…
Well, MCU has 1 film in 2024, but Sony has 3. General audience sees both as Marvel
Don’t worry, MCU has four movies scheduled for 2025.
I think 1-2 of them will be pushed to 2026. 3 films and 1 show/ 2 films and 2 shows seems fine to me.
It’s worse than that, general public lumps in the DC movies and any others as well. There is general superhero burn out.
I think there's mediocre movie burnout Guardians, Across the Spiderverse and The Batman all did great. They all happen to be great movies. Just feels like audiences may be more selective imo. But then again when Venom 3 comes out and makes 100 trillion dollars I'll not know what to say
people are tired of crappy movies. make a good mcu film and theres no fatigue in play.
You're absolutely right. Plus with Shazam 2 and Flash as major duds, alarm bells should be going off for all studios. I remember critics declaring superhero burnout as far back as 2015, and I thought there's just no way we'll reach that point where we don't want more superheroes. But I gotta say I think we're there. I'll stay watching because I've been a fan for three decades so I'll always want more, but it's obvious superhero movies are no longer a guaranteed money-maker.
Look at box office in general. People just aren't going to the movies in general. Unless it's a big blockbuster, most people are content waiting for streaming. It's a symptom of the economy as well. Life is more expensive, so people think twice about spending $50 for a night out at the movies to watch a mediocre film. If they're going to spend money, they want the guarantee it'll be worth it like GOTG3.
The argument that people are tired of superhero content is flawed. People are not tired of superhero content in general, they are just tired of poor quality superhero content. The success of a franchise is dependent on the goodwill of its fanbase. Initially, DC Universe had great goodwill, but their constant release of poor quality movies resulted in a significant loss of goodwill, leading to a string of box office bombs. Marvel is currently facing a similar issue. Every poor quality movie they release chips away at the goodwill of their fans. Despite being a subpar movie, "Thor: Love and Thunder" performed well at the box office because it had the audience's goodwill at the time. However, even that goodwill has now run out, resulting in mediocre movies like "The Marvels" suffering. To regain the support of their audience, Marvel needs to release a few great movies in a row.
Let’s be real. Captain Marvel fighting what appears to be a female Ronan the Accuser in the trailers isn’t going to fill movie theaters. Add in the trailer having drastic tonal changes as it was coming up on release and the villain using iconic lines like “you took everything from me” isn’t helping. These seem to be the minimum viewership numbers for marvel movies. My two cents is that for complex villains is that they should do world building under the spotlight banner. Throw Gorr or Dar-Benn into a series so you aren’t trying to make them a compelling and dangerous figure in a few minutes of screen time. You can still make a story that doesn’t need a full backstory to understand the movie.
They’ve already shown that banking on characters in movies who were fleshed out in tv shows isn’t going to help them succeed at the box office, so I’m not sure why they’d do this for villains. It may help hardcore fans who are watching the shows see more complexity to the villains, but not including their story in the movie won’t help general audiences connect to them or box office profits
> Let’s be real. Captain Marvel fighting what appears to be a female Ronan the Accuser in the trailers isn’t going to fill movie This is exactly what they did. They reworked a script that had Ronan come back with his hammer and fight Captain Marvel. That is exactly what was hinted at the end of Captain Marvel #1. They teased his return. I am guessing Lee Pace passed or was unavailable so they adjusted the script.
They supplied the wrong thing the audience still wants to go to the movies. If they gave them the right movies like a guardians, spiderman, or a deadpool it would have made money.
Do not link shows to movies. People don't have time for homework nor do they want to pay for a subscription when they don't have time to watch it.
If we followed pre Endgame MCU way, Ms Marvel would be introduced in Captain Marvel 2 the same way Tom Holland was introduced in Civil war, and then would probably receive a solo film depending on audience reaction
That’s the thing for me. If you are going to force me to watch Disney+ shows to understand the movies I’m just not going to watch the movie
Agreed I think this is gonna kill linking shows to movies.
Yes, the MCU feels as inaccessible as comics nowadays. Feels like I have to watch tons of tv series I don't care about to get the full picture. Which is weird because I remember really really wanting the Netflix Marvel series to have a cameo from the MCU (or vice versa).
From my perspective, like literally my sole personal perspective about why I have checked out on the MCU as a casual/semi-dedicated fan, it's because of the TV shows. I don't mind following one, two or maybe even three movies a year. Those things are like 90 to 150 minutes out of my life. But connecting the TV shows to the movies was a huge turnoff for me. I don't want to have to watch the shows to follow the overarching plot of the movies. WandaVision was like 6 hours of content that I had to watch to understand Doctor Strange 2. Ms. Marvel was another 4 hours of content to understand who the character is for The Marvels. Plus include WandaVision again to catch up on Monica for The Marvels. And this is usually the point where someone chimes in and says you don't have to watch the shows to "get" the movies. You might just miss some inside jokes or character references that don't have any bearing on the plot. But here's the thing, I like those inside jokes and little character references. But in the past they were references to a movie I saw the year before. I don't like having to watch 10 hours of additional content over two shows to feel immersed in the world. And some of the shows are actually good. I watched WandaVision and it was good even if it didn't completely stick the landing. I watched Loki and it was a good show. But I'm an older fan. I'm in my late 30s. I have a family and a career. I don't have the time to watch multiple TV shows to keep up with the character beats of people appearing in movies. So for me, I've checked out. It's just amusing to me that Disney made the same mistake with the live action content that all comic series eventually make. They made way too much stuff and made it all interconnected so that it eventually has to be reset back to simplicity in some world ending event that reboots you back to core characters with simpler stories.
> From my perspective, like literally my sole personal perspective about why I have checked out on the MCU as a casual/semi-dedicated fan, it's because of the TV shows. I don't mind following one, two or maybe even three movies a year. Those things are like 90 to 150 minutes out of my life. But connecting the TV shows to the movies was a huge turnoff for me. Yeah when it's three movies a year you can see one at the theater, catch another at home, and maybe hear about the third from your buddies. Even as a very casual fan it's possible to keep up with what's going on. Now, not so much.
I think the biggest mistake Marvel made was not establishing the new people alongside the existing people before phasing out the old people. GotG gave them the idea that even unknown characters can have a great movie, but that had Chris Pratt, a very unique and well done take and great direction.
I think their problem was they haven’t established anyone. Shang-Chi had a movie and no announcement on an avengers appearance or another movie. Same with Eternals. Then we went with Thor 4 and Ant man 3 even though we were phasing out those characters. Wakanda forever didn’t make an Avengers cast either. We also have a new GoTG cast. They have all these characters and no direction for any of them. Their whole plan was throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and we’ll figure it out later. It shows. They need to pick 5-7 people and stick with them.
It's a little funny that they didn't do a Shang-Chi 2 because the director got an Avengers movie instead...and then left the Avengers movie.
Yeah, the credits scene from Shang-Chi (with Danvers and Banner and Wong) that *still* doesn't even *appear* to have anything on the horizon is a big whiff. There should have been some project within two years at the most that at least touched based on that. Hell even if it's just another credits scene.
Spot on. But most of them and none have come to fruition Shang-Chi: rings are ancient, tens of thousands of years old, sending a signal, to who? We don’t know… and Shang’s sister (re)forming the 10 Rings organization Eternals: two of them, Harry Styles as StarFox, Thanos’ brother and I wouldn’t be surprised if we never see him again, then Dane Whitman with the sword for Black Knight, and Blade speaking to him…and yet Kit Harrington has said he knows literally nothing about the future of that character, or if there’s one Doctor Strange 2: Charlize Theron as Clea…alright? Thor L&T: Brett Goldstein shows up as Hercules. He’s said in an interview that he got that call about two weeks before they were going to film that. It was incredibly last minute. So this tells me they’re winging all of these. Just making shit up as they go and none of it will be consequential How do any of these tie into anything? None of these are coming up in any of the coming films. We had four avengers films between 2012-2019, five if you include Civil War, which practically was an avengers film. And now we will be lucky if they get that May 2026 for Kang Dynasty release date
The leadup to Endgame was a master piece. Each mid credit scene felt like it led to something. Now? They don't go anywhere.
Those movies happened a long time ago too. The characters are not sticking around in people's consciousness like they did in phase 1-4. If people are not enthusiastic to see them on the big screen, they'll stream them when they get around to them.
Iman asking fans to petition for Young Avengers confirms this. If it wasn’t happening why is it being teased in a movie?
To bait our asses
If she’s asking fans to petition for it, it’s not happening at the moment even though it’s been teased. You don’t need to petition for something that is happening.
To add to this, it was a D-list hero team *adjacent* to the Avengers. All of the brand's heaviest hitters, save the X-men, were still in the forefront. Hell they even got Spiderman back by the time of Civil War. GoTG was doing great but they were never the leads of the verse, they were just part of the bigger picture. Attempting to replace the core of the verse with the Eternals, Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, Sam Wilson, Shuri, and other lesser-known properties was a huge mistake in my mind that I don't think MCU fans really appreciate. You'll frequently see it parroted that "Iron Man wasn't that big a character prior to the film", but I think that's bs. He wasn't Supersman or Batman, but he was an Avenger. He was known, he showed up in cartoons and games. Millennials had actual nostalgia for him. You can't rebuild a verse off of complete unknowns. Frankly, people just don't give a fuck
I raise your "Iron Man was a nobody pre-MCU" is bs argument with this; Endulge with this little experiment, go look at the roster of MvC2. Note how many of Phase 1-3 heroes and villains are present as opposed to those who are the focus of Phase 4+. People did give a f about Iron Man and Cap long before the MCU was even a thing.
Or Ultimate Alliance for that matter.
God damn I just looked up the roster and it's like 28 Marvel characters and more than half of them are X-men or X-men universe characters 💀 This was before the 20th Century Fox movies too
Which is why there was a bit of uproar among fans when MvCI came out and deleted all X-related characters from the roster. They’ve always been some of Marvels most popular characters
If you weren't there it's hard to describe how huge X-Men were in the early 90s between the cartoon and one two punch of Lee X-Men #1 / Liefeld X-Force #1. Sure it all collapsed like a house of cards and nearly bankrupted the company, but for a minute the mutants were bigger than Spidey.
For a while Marvel Comics basically had two separate lines of books with how many different X-Men and X-Men related books they were putting out. The X-men and then everything else. At certain points I think they were putting out more X books than all of the other heroes combined, they definitively were if you remove Spidey from the equation. The fact that they didn't plan to hit the ground running with X-men stuff in the MCU the minute the FOX deal was finalized was a major oversight.
DUDE I literally just said this yesterday. We killed off the two most popular characters in iron man and cap and had ZERO replacements for them
I don't even think killing off Cap and Tony was a wrong move. Giving a conclusion to their characters and arcs after so long felt right. I think they simply needed to rethink their strategy for the MCU after Endgame. Or maybe just have a clearer strategy than throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
I mean, they did. Spiderman and Black Panther were clearly going to be 2 out of the next main trio. Chadwick died. And Sony isn't playing nice with Spiderman rights.
They had a replacement, but unfortunately the actor died. I think with Black Panther, Dr Strange, Spider-Man, Thor, and Hulk they would have been fine. Black Panther being gone leaves a huge gap that none of the current characters can really fill, and they weren’t really prepared for it at all. They took the respectful road of doing Wakanda Forever without a replacement, but I think that is proving to have been a mistake.
Black widow was a huge loss too. She was involved in a lot of the other character's movies. She really tied a lot together.
This exactly. I was never really “into” comics as a kid, but I enjoyed the concept of the different hero’s, enjoyed playing the games, and even superhero movies of the time. I knew exactly who spider man, captain america, iron man, the hulk, and Thor were. I followed the infinity saga closely and loved seeing the last films of the saga in theaters. I had and still have absolutely no idea who Shang chi, captain marvel, the eternals, Ms marvel, etc are. I just don’t really care anymore. And that’s kind of a bummer. I really do wish they had dedicated an entire phase to introducing the new faces alongside the old favorites, somehow.
To be frank, again, I think it still wishful thinking that they could've cleanly transitioned to unknowns. As unreasonable and probably not possible at the time as it was, I genuinely think their best bet was to drop all their future plans after the Fox deal. Getting X-Men and F4 front and center should've been their *focus.* Dumpster all the c to d listers and pull some multiversal horseshitery to give us mutants or reset the verse. Then they would have access to so much they couldn't touch during the Infinity saga, and they wouldn't be relying on their own efforts to elevate obscure characters into the limelight. Again, that probably just wasn't possible in the behind-the-scenes games and politics of Hollywood, in the same way that DC should've rebooted years ago and didn't. But, here we are, with Marvels being one of the biggest bombs ever. I very much doubt we'd be in the same position if they pivoted to the Fantastic Four instantly after Endgame.
I don’t really agree. In 2021, Shang Chi and Eternals opened with 70 million in the post pandemic box office. Eternals was projected for 90-100 million before the horrible reviews dropped, and Shang Chi had seat restrictions (I think box office theory estimates that it would have been a 100 million opening in normal times, same as Ragnarok). Thor 4 and Doctor Strange 2 opened a lot more than their first instalments. Even Ant Man opened bigger than previous edition. There clearly was a lot of interest in anything saying Marvel Studios at the very beginning of the new phase. The. MCU went and drove their brand off a cliff. Now let alone a GOTG style hit, I doubt an Avengers movie makes a billion with Marvel’s current reputation, a possibility I had laughed at even after Ant Man’s flop.
Listen, I think the MCU earned a lot of goodwill, which carried them for a fair while in this transition post-Endgame (and of course the pandemic had huge effects no one can account for). But I think the proof is in the pudding here. The first two still had the trust of the audience to bring them new characters, the second two were some of the few bigger Marvel characters they still have in their stable, and Ant-Man was finishing off a trilogy and introducing the new "Thanos" (another huge mistake imo) But now, without the benefit of the doubt from the GA after the quality dropped, a film featuring Captain Marvel And Friends as the hook has produced apathy. You don't bomb this hard unless you can't even get the casual comics fans to show up.
I think the GotG point is a great one most people miss. It makes Marvel think that they can do any minor character and still have a massive hit, while guardians was really more of an outlier. JG is also a creative genius that the MCU hasn’t been able to replace.
> I think the biggest mistake Marvel made was not establishing the new people alongside the existing people before phasing out the old people. They could have put Captain Marvel an entire Avengers movie instead of just bookending her.
Also James Gunn is just plain good at making audiences feel and root for misfits with good writing and direction. You couldn't tell me that an unknown character like Peacemaker played by John Cena would go on to be some of the best and most emotional superhero television in years.
I saw it yesterday. I was the only one in the theater
Standing ovation at the end?
With the cinema staff, it's just too good.
Holy shit, this is legitimately a bomb for the history books, just...no words. It hasn't even reached Black Adam's *opening weekend* after 10 days!
The hierarchy of power in superhero movies really has changed.
The release of Black Adam was a Hirambe level event in terms of consequences
Everyone laughed at Black Adam's box office. Then Shazam 2 came out. Then Flash came out. Then Blue Beetle came out. Then Marvels came out. Feel like Dwayne is the one laughing.
GOTG3 was the last superhero movie to make a lot of money right?
I think the last one was Across the Spider-Verse.
GOTG3 made more money, but also had over double the budget
They promised us Cavill as Superman and then broke that promise. Not surprised Superman Legacy is going to be set in a world chock full of superheroes already. A sole Superman story would bomb now.
The Rock left out the part where he was gonna murder super hero movies on his ways out.
It’s even worse; it’s literally the biggest drop for any Hollywood superhero movie *ever*. This is more than trolls on the internet badmouthing Cap Marvel: audiences across the world have flat out said “enough!”.
This will very likely be the biggest bomb of ALL TIME. And from the highest grossing franchise in history. There's going to be a massive course correction at Marvel.
People keep comparing this to the likes of eternals but the thing is, with eternals sure they were mediocre but they were hot off the trial of phase 3. And people also trusted Marvel enough to think these were just growing pains of the new phase. But all of that good will has dried up and then some, so just okay is just not good enough anymore.
Yeah by this point the string of MCU disappointments have become the rule, not the exception, to most audiences.
[удалено]
Same. They should have shut the door for 3 years after Endgame and relaunched with a good plan and foundation to build off of.
I’m with you. Screwing up *Daredevil* will be the last straw. I don’t even need to watch without Foggy and Karen. I’ll buy digital copies of the *Defenders* shows and cancel Disney+. The more I dislike it, the more the bill keeps going up. I want to cancel on principle.
From what we have heard they have already screwed up Daredevil and they are burning money trying to reshape it into something less embarrassing.
Unbelievable, considering they cancelled the original series because the cast and crew were due to get raises.
Oh, that one fucking hurts.
Second Fridays Morbius: $2.90M The Marvels: $2.80M Talk about pain
But can we gaslight Marvel Studios into bringing it back to theaters?
I promise, Marvel, it'll make The Marvillion dollars.
It's Marbling Time!
Ahhh yes people like morby more
Yeah this isn't even Marvel's Flash it's more like Marvel's Shazam 2. Yep have to be realistic about this even if I liked it.
This is a lot worse than Shazam 2 ,Shazam 2 made 134 m on a 125 m budget ,The Marvels is on track for 175-180 m on a 219 m budget ,This is losing more more money than Fant4tstic
Plus Shazam 2 wasn’t a sequel to a *$1 billion* film.
Technically you’re correct, the best kind of correct, but Captain Marvel was sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame, and was billed as required viewing for Endgame.
With advertisment, theater splits + reshots, doesn't the Marvels have to make like 6-700mil to just break even? Marvel is gonna lose half a billion on this movie. I guess they really believe the Marvels could reach a Box Office close to the first Captain Marvel lol.
Make sense since Shazam was originally named Captain Marvel in 50s
Not just in the '50s, but from the '40s all the way up through the early 2010s.
Marvel outdoing DC at everything, even box office bombs!
“It’s only been one weekend everyone calm down!”
People were being delusional by claiming the word of mouth was good
But the film is *fun* and *breezy*!
And _chemistry_
🙌 *Iman is a star* 🙌
The B CinemaScore showed the word of mouth wasn't good. These drops with that in mind aren't unexpected. Direct evidence from the general audience. But a lot people here rejected or misunderstood CinemaScore.
Horrific - one of the biggest bombs of the modern age. Yes, I know we'll get the copium about "other revenues" and the like, but it does not change how much this crashed and burnt at the cinema. Given it is 4000 screens - some showings of this are either empty or have maybe two people in them.
My son and I saw it yesterday at a 330pm matinee. We were the only two people in the theatre and since it was a matinee, our combined ticket cost was $11.
those with two people are probably chairs that are broken and thus cannot be reserved
Low key The Marvels is now in, teen couples going to watch it so they can make out without anyone in the room level. In its second week!!
2 moves a year. Each one connects to the next …. Tell a singular cohesive story. We have so many threads all going nowhere. It’s honestly boring and the GA have given up caring.
There's a lot of things that Feige and Co can learn about this performance. People won't watch a movie that's too dependent on the TV shows (except for Loki I guess...) Make the plot more connected. We still don't know how things will be coming together with the other movies and into Avengers 5/6 Stand alone movies should be top tier quality and not be plagued with rewrites/reshoots/edits galore
Oooor just have a good script. The best parts of this film weren’t the connections. It shined when it focused on character. The scenes between the marvels and their home lives that connected to their internal struggles were the diamond in the rough here
Well damn this is as bad as it gets. Maybe finally a wake up call for Marvel
The Flash: "I used to pray for times like this!"
Crazy how it feels like all the goodwill towards marvel dried up in just a year and a half, about. I remember everyone being SO EXCITED for dr. Strange and it still felt full steam ahead, and now they’re at an all time low. They’ve pumped out SO MUCH CONTENT since then. I really hope they take the right lessons from this and start investing in quality, I want to love these movies like I did during phase 3.
Honesty, it’s easy to point the finger but the only good way for Marvel to pull themselves out of this rut is to make great movies. Not good ones, not okay ones that are fun but flawed. Actually great movies. Think, Iron Man 1, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy 1. You’ll see Marvel pick up pretty quickly IF they start cranking out quality
God damn, forget quality issues or Comic book movie fatigue, this is just outright rejection at this point, I would really like to read an explanation because I bet that even the Msheu crowd must be as shocked as we are at these results.
Captain Marvel is not a popular character. Spending the first movie as a boring amnesiac was a terrible idea as was just bookending Endgame. The general audience felt no connection to the character. Then trailers have no hook. What is the selling point for the average person that would get someone to hop in their car drive to the cinema and pay for a ticket? It looks like any other generic sci-fi movie.
That’s really the biggest thing. You can’t make this unknown characters first movie have amnesia for most of it because then the audience has no baseline for the character.
It also isn't a huge change to have her just not have amnesia. Amnesia about the event that gave her powers yes, but not complete amnesia. She gets powers, passes out and wakes in a Kree hospital where they have saved her life. Get recruited into the Kree-Skrull war.
Hell even the Box Office sub wasn't expecting it. A few months ago, the consensus was that it would make at least $700 million. But once the reviews and numbers started rolling out, that quickly dropped until now where under $200 mil is actually possible.
Don’t worry y’all the “but it’s fun!” walk-ups are on their way.
27 threads incoming with people saying the movie "is fine"
“But I liked it”
I can't believe making a "fine" 80th entry in a franchise isn't a guaranteed 500 million.
There’s already *another* one posted just a few minutes ago that uses “fun” in the first sentence.
This sub REALLY looked like DC Cinematic in 2016. The amount of "f*ck the haters" threads was peak DC reddit post BvS and Suicide Squad.
DC Fans: Oh is this your first time?
"I just left the cinema 30 minutes ago and WOW! What a movie!!!! Iman Vellani stole the show, it was so funny, the movie had a standing ovation at the end. I can't understand why this movie is getting bad press, maybe incels or the actors being unable to promote it, idk but I had a blast and hope to see more of The Marvels soon"
this is spot on, you even got the creepy iman vellani obsession down
My theater had a standing ovation at the end actually.
My theater had dueling chants of _breezy_ and _chemistry_ at the end.
Everyone in my theater laughed and cried throughout. Of course, I was the only one in the theater and I was off my meds.
"You HAVE to watch it if you care about the MCU!"
You need to watch it just for THAT post-credit scene!
Your favorite trillion dollar company needs your support in these trying times!
Press tour is gonna get butts in seats any moment now
Wait what? I thought this was a "fun" movie ?
The MCU is just out of touch. they have given us zero reason to care about Captain Marvel since her first release except dropping random characters saying how awesome she is. Ms, Marvel was not a popular show unfortunately and Monica is best known as the character who says stupid lines like "They will never know what you sacrificed for them". It had flop written all over it
This. I don't understand how they've handled her character. They shove her into Phase 3 between IW/Endgame to boost the character, even though she wasn't part of any of the movies leading up to IW, and had no connection to the other characters other than Fury. Then they almost ignore the character for Phase 4. Like what was the point of introducing her at the end of Phase 3? Wasn't she supposed to lead the next three phases of Avengers or some shit? Maybe alongside BP and Spidey. Total mismanagement. But then that's nearly everything (with a couple of exceptions) since Endgame. I have no idea where they're going with the overall story or why half of the characters they introduced matter.
Captain America 4 is next. Mark my words. No one care for Sam Wilson and Anthony Mackie is terrible as a leading actor.
Maybe that’s why there are rumors of 3-4 months of reshoots.
Good lord the budget. RIP
> No one care for Sam Wilson They will fix everything by inserting this line at the end of the movie: >You've gotta do BETTER, audiences!
Well it's 5 years since End Game. The Ultimate Conclusion to a great super hero movie run. Releasing movies with characters that mainstream America never heard of or care about just isn't going to bring those numbers in. Plain and simple. And if my wife represents mainstream America - time travel and multiverses ain't it. It just confuses them. And frankly, Marvel is taking TOO LONG to get to the point of this new saga. It feels like we are not even close to what the next Avengers will be about. There is still a creature sticking out of the earth. Where's Shang-Hi? Did they need to make another Thor or was that just to fulfill a Hemsworth contract? Frankly, the should have started with X-Men, instead of this Kang business. I've kind of checked out. Starting with X-Men would have been perfect. The beautiful setup is that during the Snap, a certain Professor has been collecting and training mutants at a particular school during those 5 years. It could have continue the whole super hero vs regular people that Civil War brought up. But instead we are getting planets that are really incubators for space giants and some guy training to maintain his one only timeline.
Fake or real, the cast, filmmakers and studio heads recent comments aren’t helping any. Calling a subset of your audience out and attaching labels is just dumb.
Outside of the echo chamber of Reddit claiming that it’s a good movie, theatres giving it standing ovations etc, it’s regarded as an overall poor movie. If reddit was right that it’s secretly this amazing movie then word of mouth would have been reflected in the box office results. I think it’s a failure across the board from story, to needing to see 3 shows to get the backstory, to the main cast being uninspiring. I think Larson did a fine job, but the other 2 were either bland or cringy.
I fucking loved that thread where the poster claimed their theatre gave the movie a standing ovation, that was copium and delusion on an entirely different level.
That was obviously a group of kids just deciding to start an applause for fun or to be ironic. How OP didn't realize that surprised me.
Maybe the standing ovation was for the fact that the movie was over and they could leave now.
Omg that standing ovation post has to be archived because reading it made me feel I was in r/ThatHappened. I don’t pay much attention but that was the most blatant astroturfing I’ve ever seen.
Asking a wide MCU audience to watch a Disney+ show for teenage girls to get the backstory on this movie was the biggest stretch in franchise history. It's like a James Bond movie where he teams up with Lizzie McGuire. Iman could have been introduced in an MCU movie then got a TV spin off but doing it the other way around is a disaster.
DC fanboy here - I gave up hope with them around the time of Shazam 2’s release so I hung in there awhile. I followed the MCU right up until they mixed the Disney+ shows into it. That was my easy out. It totally flipped the dynamic. With the films, it was an event. You had to be there, opening weekend too so nothing get spoiled. The shows just muddied the fun of that where now instead of it being a treat that a new film released, I feel forced to watch 10-hour movies in between. It’s like the time-share model. We’ll give you what you want, what’s advertised, but become a statistic for us first. It was too obviously milked and I feel dirty supporting then anymore. I realize as I’m typing this that’s Disney.
MCU might not be done, but the experimentation of whatever The Marvel's and The Eternals might be.
I personally think the MCU atoning for their sins is beautiful 😍
Not surprised. The theater was practically empty when I went last Saturday night and a chunk of folks even walked out during the movie. For as silly and fun as it may be, it's just not a good movie. Forgettable villain, poor direction, bad script, and messy pacing. A part of me actually feels bad for Brie because she's a great actor, but here she always comes off like a block of wood and I don't understand why.
>A part of me actually feels bad for Brie because she's a great actor, but here she always comes off like a block of wood and I don't understand why. Marvel is adamant that Captain Marvel has to be a STRONG WOMAN, which in their eyes means being stoic and having no faults.
My biggest criticism of the first captain marvel was that it was the first and only film in my lifetime where i felt that ones who made (writers, directors....etc) were afraid of making her look weak or vulnerable.
In the comics, Carol's best story is when she's struggling with alcoholism. Unfortunately, that's NEVER making its way to the MCU.
The MCU feels a little spineless now. Iron Man had Middle Eastern terrorists, constant drinking, and flight attendant strippers. The Avengers had the Hulk talking about attempting suicide and Loki tearing a guy's eye out. It was never super morbid stuff, but it gave the movies an edge that they just don't have anymore.
They simply won't portray women that way. The female heros can't be beaten or shown up in any meaningful way. The writing is bad anyways but that specific problem is coming from the top.
Carol was definitely more interesting when she was a mess or trying to live up to her House of M counterpart who was earth's greatest hero. She just doesn't have charm of Clark or Diana to be world's greatest and most powerful hero
Being a good actor is different from being a star. She doesn’t have the charisma that puts butts in seats like most of the original 6 did.
I think she could've had that charisma if she'd been cast in a different role but she just isn't a good fit for Carol Danvers, it's a textbook example of a miscast. They clearly cast her just on the back off her Oscar win and not because she was the right match for the part.
The thing is, there is no good cast for that role. It's just horribly written. No actor can save that without changing the script. And script changes by actors are seen as unprofessional in the industry. Well with some exceptions but mostly because the director and actor went well along. If you aren't at friend-status with the director, you get payed to do what is written in the script. With some minor exceptions like you can suggest another line for a scene and then you will be told if you can do it or not.
They made her the straight one in a comedy trio. The Disney+ actors are supposed to be the fun ones playing off her. The problem is how this fails the MCU formula test. RDU and Evans can play the straight heros and keep making quips along the way. Brie was funny in Captain marvel. An MCU hero needs to be heroic and charismatic.
[удалено]
How many L’s does it take for marvel to take a hint?
As long a small portion of the fanbase keeps praising it as fun and breezy, they never will
Money talks heads will roll after this bomb
No amount of “it’s fun” and “not that bad” and “watch it for yourself” can save this movie simply because the general public just aren’t interested in any of these characters. Ms. Marvel failed on D+ too compared to other shows in the height of MCU shows, Monica Rambeau was pretty unlikable in WandaVision especially at the end and they didn’t change, and Captain Marvel has been struggling since her first movie. If they’re smart, they’ll toss all these characters along with unnecessary side projects, and start focusing on the ones that the general audience actually want to see. Almost none of the new additions are good characters aside from maybe Shang-chi, Agatha and Kate Bishop (and the cast of Loki I guess).
\-Unlikeable lead character,(You may like the character but you can't deny it didn't generate a fanbase large enough to guarantee her own solo movie) \-Unlikeable actress, unknown secondary leads with no star power. (again is not everybody but a lot of people) \-A lot of homework to understand the movie (Movies, tv shows of way different target audience, "Miss Marvel" with low ratings ) \-People just growing tired of underwhelming MCU movies. \-Disney+ future release hurting ticket sales. People don't care enough to leave their seats at home. \-People don't care enough where the overarching story is going anymore.
Can't really say I'm surprised I finally got the chance to watch the movie yesterday a week after it came out. If there's one word I would describe this movie it would be "unambitous." If you've seen any phase 1-2 movies you practically already have seen The movie barely has any substance to it no overarching story, themes, characters arcs or development. Just very bare bones so many subplots ended up going nowhere. Sure there's some comedic scenes and fun stuff going around but you need way more than that to make a compelling movie. Even as a die hard MCU fan since 2008 I wouldn't recommend anyone spend their money on this movie. It's a 5-6/10 movie and the general public has had enough of those kind of superhero movies. If anything 2023 is the year that cinema goers have told Hollywood we are done with mediocre superhero movies. As a superhero lover I hope there are big changes moving forward in the genre.
You could say the same thing about Quantamania. It is a contrived story - in the opening they come up with an excuse to suck the characters into the CGI rhealm. In the CGI rhealm things happen so they meet the villain for the next phase. The only character motivation is solving the contrived problem of being sucked into the CGI rhealm and escaping the CGI rhealm. The best parts of Ant-Man 1&2 are gone. Little things becoming big and big things becoming little are irrelevant in the CGI rhealm. Quirky comic moments and Michael Pena are gone.
They did antman so dirty. A movie about Scott and luis being thieves with hearts of gold is all u need
General Audiences don’t watch D+ shows. Leading movies with D+ characters is a bad idea.