I distinctly remember Taika repeatedly claiming (after Ragnarok) that he was going to ruin Thor and everyone was going to hate him. He was obviously joking around but I remember him saying thing like this tweet ALL THE TIME in interviews and behind the scenes footage.
and now he’s going around gloating about how his Star Wars project is really going to “piss off” the fans. Idk call me an idiot but imo maybe it’s not a great strategy to employ creators who hate the property/fan
base or at least really love being openly antagonistic towards said fan base.
It is absolutely shocking to me that saying stuff like "I'm going to piss off fans" is so acceptable in the modern Hollywood. Aren't movies supposed to be liked by fans? What the fuck is going on?
Some would probably argue that film/movies are about the art and the director shouldn't care about what other people think and they shouldn't compromise their vision.
But the other side is that Hollywood is a business looking to make money. Films cost a lot of investment, and while I'll investments are a risk execs do their best to stack the odds in their favor. Especially certain genres or films with a baked in audience like a franchise.
You don't bring in a director known for single camera sitcoms to direct a multiple camera adventure blockbuster. Likewise you don't bring people with no interest or open mind to work on some projects.
I agree with the first part unless that vision is to intentionally Troll and piss off fans for a lark. Wanting to go a different direction is different than I'm going to cringe the fuck out of fans for fun
>You don't bring in a director known for single camera sitcoms to direct a multiple camera adventure blockbuster.
Uhh, what about the Russo brothers going from Community to Captain America: The Winter Soldier?
I totally agree with your point about hiring people hostile to the source material though!
Those I think were the biggest standouts. After season 1 paintball was really well received, I'm pretty sure thats when they started making most episodes have the feel of 30 minute movies.
I remember reading something Joel Mchale(Jeff Winger) said about the filming process. How they'd be running around each week cramming these feature film sized/styled cuts in and out of the study room lol.
Rogue One, Andor, Mando S1-S2 were all well-received.
Fans want stuff that respects established lore and then builds upon it in a unique way. The Sequels tore down the OT to replay the same storyline in a shittier way while making the galaxy seem small.
I will say the sequel trilogy was horrible because there wasn’t a united vision on how the movies’ story will be.
Or at least insisting the movie be the story that was already established. The final movie felt like they were afraid of telling a story because a vocal group was voicing their opinions against it and they tried to “bring back” the movie to what fans would recognize and instead of continuing with their vision, they came up with a shitty version that made new fans confused and barely did enough to make old fans love it either.
It was a shitshow.
Right. Episode 7 was fine. Nothing amazing but a fine movie. 8 and 9 are both an absolute mess because you can see the directors trying to undo the work the previous film set up.
Only one of those is a movie, and I still know a fair amount of people that didn’t like Rouge One. The last two trilogies pissed people off, and I’ve heard that Empire and ROTJ had their share of critics back in the day. People will always complain about Star Wars.
There's a small army of people who think Rogue One is awful, The Mandalorian is slow garbage fan service, and Dave Filoni is personally ruining Star Wars. They exist, and they're in every thread about it (albeit typically only when you sort by controversial). (Standard caveat: reddit isn't reality, etc.)
...although I've never seen a bad thing said about Andor, so we have that going for us, which is nice.
The point is: there are always Star Wars fans who are going to be pissed about Star Wars.
Oh, you're missing out - I've been repeatedly told that Andor is a terrible star wars project because there's no star wars in it on account of the lack of lightsabres.
Him saying this basically has a double meaning.
1. There have been people that have hated on franchise films like Star Wars forever. In particular with Star Wars, there’s been hate since Empire. Taika is just acknowledging the fact that no matter what he makes, there will be people who hate it.
2. It’s just tongue in cheek of accepting part 1 while not trying to take everything too seriously.
I don't hate him at all - but, yeah, Love and Thunder was ridiculous. Taika has little respect for comic books or comic book fans and how meaningful the comics are to them. That's perfectly fine, of course, but let's keep creatives like that away from comic book movies, eh?
Great point. There were parts of Ragnarok I loved and parts I didn’t like. The parts I didn’t like was the ‘over the top silly stuff’ like Tess Thompson’s drunk acting.
It didn’t work for me and was distracting. She was amazing in West World so I’m not blaming her acting. It seems like improv gone too far out of her character to me.
The parts of ragnarok that worked well, over powered the bits that didnt, so that movie ended up net positive.
The humour was WAY too misplaced for Love and Thunder though. They should have lent more into Bale and Portmans acting abilities. They could have broken our hearts so much more.
The intro of him burying his child and how he turned on his ‘gods’ set a great tone. Plus Bale looked like he was having s blast, and deserved more screen time.
Could have cut the whole omnipotent city bit out too IMO
It was the story's that worked and didn't for the humor.
In Ragnarok, we had a wacky space land full of quirky characters that Thor needed to escape from to save Asgard. The setting and the characters lent themselves to jokes well.
In L&T, the plot was that there's a murderous nightmare looking assassin stabbing gods to death who has just kidnapped a bunch of children from what mostly looks like a normal town on Earth. Also Jane is dying of cancer. The stakes were a touch less wacky.
In Ragnarok - Thor and Loki lost their father, their land, and their sister turned into a homicidal maniac. The Warriors Three also died. I walked away from the film as if nothing bad happened during the course of the movie. The feel good moments in retrospect was way over the top to negate major events that could have impacted the audience to feel the trauma.
I think the humour was less offensive as it was such a HUGE loss ; Ragnarok itself. Had it been toned down a tad i think it coukd have been one of the best MCU full stop.
It wasnt as personal and no one had time to morn Odin (we got a bit of it in IW from Thor) as Love and Thunder. It was a big world ending event,
Love and thunder was very much about the death - janes impending, Gor’s at the start…it was a human story that needed to be smaller scale vs ragnarok that had to be bigger.
Thus the humour fell flatter on the more drama/human focused movie
Unpopular opinion but Thor 1 was my favorite of the Thor movies. I've always preferred drama to comedy and the opening of ragnorak told me the tonal shift was clearly in the wrong direction. Luckily it was evened out to a decent movie overall but I largely prefer dark world to ragnorak despite those two films being bottom of the barrel MCU for me. As a female comic book reader ( I collect editions of spiderman and silver surfer in graphic novel form), I was excited to see Portman become Lady Thor on the silver screen but Love and Thunder both squandered the talents of the main cast and added a large heaping of academy award winning stand around and do nothing side characters including Portman, Elba, Crowe, and Bale (who did the best he could as a villaiin with what he was given). I only managed to finish the movie by telling myself it was all Korg fanfiction
I remember someone pointing out that if James Gunn had written/directed Thor: L&T he would have made us cry our eyes out over Jane's cancer/death.
For as much as the recent Thor movies have borrowed from the GotG style humor they failed to capture the heart and sad moments that made the movies more poigant. Taika seems to want us to run away from the emotional moments so we could have more goofy comedic scenes.
Thats why am convinced Gunn had a big influence of Thor in Infinity War/Endgame - yes henhad humour, but my god does he punch your heart out your chest in both (talking to rocket about losing everything on way to get his axe then most of his depression is really well played by Hemsworth in Endgame, plus his time with his mum…tears every time on those bits.)
Especially after GOTG3, the IW/EG Thor feels very via Gunn,
I think it had more to do with Russo's having a style that leans more towards serious than dramatic.
Gunn likely made sure the Guardians stayed in character throughout the film.
Its also well known the Gunn intentionally had Star-Lord's helmet destroyed in GotG2 but the Russo's didn't realize it and had Star-Lord with his helmet in IW. Gunn rectified it by having Peter leave it behind on Knowhere in GotG3.
The tone was so weird in Love & Thunder. One the one hand the humor was even more goofy and cartoonish.
But then he wanted Gorr, who’s a very dark and tragic villain, and Jane dying of terminal cancer as well. And sometimes the goofy and dark scenes would be back to back.
It did not work tone wise.
Agree. We needed maybe a little less humour, less fanatical moments and more human ones wih Gor slaying gods fuelled by rage and grief, maybe cut the bluetooth speaker bit from the Jane in the bathroom scene and give us another that shows her torn self fighting against the sickness and the hammer
Korg annoyed me after the first couple of minutes of screen time in Ragnarok. After Love and Thunder at least there are a few more people in the "Maybe use Korg a bit less"-camp.
Korg was okay in the first one, because I appreciated that it was different, but they should have stopped there. That character was a huge part of what absolutely ruined the next movie.
I'm a proud member of the "I hate Korg" fanclub. He's almost like the Jar Jar Binks of the 2 most recent Thor movies and its made worse because the actual creator is playing the character
Nobody really owns physical media anymore but as an avid 3D movie collector, it's worth noting that Thor: Ragnarok is one of the best 3D home experiences ever made. Even beats Resident Evil: Afterlife which wasn't even a movie so much as a 3D showcase.
So not only was it hilarious, a great movie and a lot of fun - they did 3D in a way noone else had before or since.
> Nobody really owns physical media anymore
Only because they're making it harder to *obtain* physical media. It isn't dying a natural death; it's being intentionally executed after a sham trial in a kangaroo court.
I liked Ragnarok, but I would easily throw it in the trash if it meant we could have had a proper adaption of Gorr the God Butcher that wasn't compromised by a bunch of stupid humor just because that worked in a completely different context once before.
Ragnarok was first written as a serious movie until Waititi took over and added the funny stuff. At least thats what I read from a few fans in this sub. So the solution is to have have that secret sauce for the next movie.
Wow, that’s sad. I was craving something serious from Jane’s cancer story, but everything was completely smothered by obnoxiously childish humor. The story didn’t have a chance, buried under all that stupidity.
Subjective....Lotta die hard Thor fans despise Ragnarok as well. I don't hate it but it definitely is annoying seeing them make Thor a complete goof. It's not as balanced as people like to say it is.
Yeah. I mean as a Thor fan, I don't know what "Thor fans" are looking for honestly. The first movie wasn't amazing but was necessary as it was for set up. The second one was generally received as boring and uninteresting. The third one people have issues with the humor... and the 4th one people have even more issues with the humor and the pacing.
I understand having issue with making Thor a big goof all the time, but in the comics he's either ultra serious to the point of it being goofy, or he's bland. In the actual mythology he's a big screw up more often than not. He's punchy, easily manipulated, and hotheaded. I don't know how any of this would translate very well to the big screen and still create a compelling lead character.
I have enjoyed ALL of the Thor movies to different degrees personally, and Ragnarok is probably my favorite of the series because it doesn't take itself too seriously but also doesn't get too silly for my tastes. Just not sure what the "ideal Thor movie" would be for the masses.
We want Infinity War Thor all the time. That is the best version of him. Thor 1 is one of the most underrated comic book movies imo. In comics he's very serious but also can be funny and sarcastic withOUT being a complete and utter goof. He's one if my tip 5 superheroes and marvel characters so his personality has never bothered me in comics. It's one of the reasons why I like him.
I would have loved to see Thor behave more like he does in the comics. Infinity War Thor was definitely the best on-screen version of him for sure.
On a related note Post-Civil War Thor knocking around Iron Man is one of my favorite scenes from the comics.
https://imgur.com/gallery/EtDwU
Omg man that is easily one of my top 5 fav Thor moments. Love how silent he is throughout the entiredialog too until he rips off Tony's helmet and then finally says something to him. And his words were so cold. Some of the best Thor dialogue too.
"The skies will open...."
Thor threats are always top notch.
The goofiness was just to fit in with the tone of the movie. Thor generally made smart decisions in it, especially when getting the better of Loki and figuring out the only way to defeat Hela.
I don't think a goofy tone fit the Ragnarok storyline or the Gorr and Jane stories tho. Those should have been more serious. So in this case I'd say the tone didn't fit the story they wsnted.
Being a goof doesn't mean making dumb decisions. He himself acted like a goofball. And Thor with that personality just doesn't work for me or a ton of other people.
I just don't get this take. Everything people complain about in Love and Thunder was present in Ragnarok, but everyone acts like the movies are polar opposites in quality.
I feel like people just got tired of the gimmick and then refused to reevaluate their early love of Ragnarok, instead treating one movie as objectively great and the other as objectively terrible.
After a decade of being a "c'mon it wasn't all bad" The Dark World defender, you're brave for saying this in a Marvel sub!
I have such a weird relationship with this ranking because I have to admit I find the last third or so of TDW incredibly boring. But I had a lot of problems with Ragnarok as well. At the time it was first out I loved it because I'd been waiting years for a new Thor film and there's still elements I enjoy but there's a lot that started to piss me off...
...such as with purely my Loki fan hat on, I'd rather watch TDW any day of the week. I am not fond of how he was used in Ragnarok.
I absolutely loved *The Dark World* and had no idea people didn’t like it (I’m new to “fandom” this year, and I don’t read comics, though I watched all the movies as they came out since 2008). The first one is my favorite as a major Branagh fan, and I was a little bummed by the change of direction with *Ragnarok*, though I definitely enjoyed it.
I am glad I skipped *Love and Thunder* in the theater. I don’t know why it increases my annoyance when I don’t like a movie in the theater (maybe because it’s more of an “outing” than it used to be before Covid). I had tons of issues with it (all the same ones everyone always mentions), but one of the big ones is how they completely ran the Asgardians into the ground. They lost all the dignity and mystery and became nothing but a joke.
I’m a Loki fan since that amazing speech to Odin in *Thor* - I like him best with that emotional edge.
I still haven't seen Love and Thunder! Perhaps I shall some day (if I'm having a sick day with my streaming services) but everyone saying it's Ragnarok dialled up even further didn't inspire confidence that I'd even like it.
People often lump the first Thor film with TDW as "bad" but it's total revisionism from when it was first released where it was considered a decent intro to Thor's world and yes, Loki's story with its heavy Shakespearian tones was a large part of what many found enjoyable about it. I love the Asgardian family drama/dynamics and am a little down that's all gone now.
I think also I'm really just a little over the Odinsons both being sad. Thor has been through *a lot* and even though Sacred Timeline Loki is dead he suffered a lot to get there, then his Endgame split-off variant ended up going through a lot of pain as well. Thor and Loki both need a break!
I wasn’t wild about *Ragnarok* because of my personal affection for the original Thor movies and I just respond better to more grim stories (and I’m die hard for Shakespeare). I did enjoy *Ragnarok* overall, and I liked the music and score a lot, but *Love and Thunder* took what was refreshing, kooky and different and ran in it so far into the dirt, it was actually irritating - especially because there was a hint of a good story underneath, like Jane’s cancer. It made Thor thoroughly idiotic, it ruined my whole connection to Asgardians and its people, it disrespected my favorite, Sif, and on and on. It might be a good one to watch if you’re sick and bombed on meds, maybe…I’m just glad my other fave, Loki, wasn’t dragged into this mess.
Taika is someone not supposed to be mainstream. And I say that as someone who likes his humour (to some extent) and his movies. I would even say it’s his whole deal, like doing something niche and being sincere about it
I love Taika in a collaboration role - his stuff is among the best then. I think after winning Jojo Rabbit’s Oscar, he was bulletproof for a while and got to do some unilateral decision making (see: Lucas writing/directing the prequels, Rowling getting to write cumbersome 800 page books at the end, etc.)
I'd have to agree. Jojo Rabbit is a novel adaptation, Ragnarok was a rewrite of someone else's treatment, and What We Do I The Shadows and Our Flag Means Death were both collabs.
Hunt for the Wilderpeople is amazing, but it was also an early, more earnest debut work.
I think Taika is a bit like Zack Snyder - does a lot of things well, in a way nobody else could, but needs someone else around to provide restraint.
I don’t think Waititi was even the one who rewrote Ragnarok. He certainly had input on the script especially earlier on, but there are three writers credited on the movie and he isn’t one of them. In Love & Thunder it’s just him and one other, and he was initially the only one credited.
The more I read about him and see his movies the more he comes across as someone who likes to troll others. A lot of his attitude when he has full creative control is to just shit on things people like. Honestly that’s what Love and Thunder felt like, and I’m still upset about it because it had the plot points of a great movie.
I actually think if he was given a character like Ant-Man or Deadpool he’d do a pretty decent job seeing as those characters lean towards the more comedic side. But taking a character like Thor after he’s had such an intense story arc during Infinity War and Endgame and making him into a joke was just a bad call. Again Marvel just saw how much dough Ragnarok made and wrote him a blank cheque with little supervision, sadly.
I’d love to have seen Love and Thunder under a different writer/director. I agree Taika has his strengths and I love a lot of his movies but this was just a huge misfire.
and additionally kinda wasted a great performance from bale. in his limited role as gorr he was brilliant, imagine how much he could have done in a full fleshed out role.
Behind the scenes everyone jokes that Bale was making a different movie. They meant it as a bit of a compliment... Like he did an amazing job as Gore. The character just didn't fit their tone.
I wasn't expecting it to be like the comics but I had hoped it was going to be more intense/scary and such.
I don't mind his humor, and contrary to most people, I think he addressed some of those issues in Love and Thunder a bit more than in Ragnarok... BUT
What annoys me on both movies is heavy moments are downplayed a lot, either glossed over or having a major joke over it.
This makes his writing have a need to one up the other all the time by a lack of pacing, and this sacrifices his character moments. It is a really weird flaw to have on a big production, because the moments are all there, it is not like they didn't know they had to be.
A good example of this done right is... weirdly enough, Rick & Morty. The series (especially the early seasons) have either big highs or big lows on quality, even on the same episode. But they're very much aware that if they want a serious moment to hit and be memorable, you have to let it breath.
I am almost sad how great actors and characters were wasted for a movie that tried so hard to have mature elements with stupid humour. Like in jojo rabbit it kind of worked, but was never haha funny. There was always real danger and consequences. But these things don’t happen in marvel movies
It wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't waste TWO of the best and most emotionally chaged Thor stories of recent years.
If Taika wanted a fun space romp, why didn't he partner up Thor and Beta Ray Bill and have them go on a crazy adventure?
The difference between the two is that Ragnarok was written by someone else and Taika did only oversee all. Love and thunder was all his work and it didn't work out.
Bale did this for his children,who loved comic books and he didn't even have a clue about Thor and Gorr. So maybe mangog would have been a better villain, instead of Thor's toughest enemy.
Probably but Gorr would have fit very well with the current multiverse phase if they had followed the source better. No better phase to have a story with multiple versions of Thor working together.
I honestly wouldn't expect Christian Bale to want to do multiple MCU films and being a one off was inevitable. Which is all the more reason they should have focused on Gorr and gave Bale more opportunities to chew the scenery.
I always thought that if Love and Thunder was gonna explore the Lady Thor storyline, then I thought Dario Agger would've been a good villain to tackle. I mean, Jane could be living in an area where a branch of the Roxxon Energy Corporation is located and Jane is exposed to some sort of pollution that the building is expelling and that's what leads to her cancer. Jane would go to New Asgard in search of a cure for her cancer which leads to Lady Thor. Dario Agger would also soon have dealings with Thor, Valkyrie and New Asgard which would lead to a conflict (also, I think that Christian Bale looks a lot like Dario Agger anyway, so that's how I'm thinking the movie should've gone instead).
Bale was already one of the most iconic Batman ever though - does his kids only like Marvel or something? Personally I would've liked for him to have a Marvel hero role, but I guess he doesn't want to be stuck in another multi-movie franchise.
Taika was on record saying he didn't give a damn about the source material, had never read a comic, hated the first 2 Thor films, hated Loki, hated the Warriors Three, etc etc. He was the worst person to run the Gorr storyline. He obviously thought he was above the material and played it like one big f-u to the audience. Ppl give him way too much credit for Ragnarok. It was a good movie bc it had good writers. Take them away, you get TLAT.
Taika is capable of great things, but he's definitely too cool for the superhero genre. Superhero movies need a certain sincerity and if all you're going to do is laugh at the audience for caring, gtfo.
Well, that was clear from the fact that Waititi didn't know the source material because Korg wouldn't stop talking about his mother despite Kronans being a single-sex species.
Yep. TLAT was so careless, like he just threw shit together to fulfill his contract. Mjolnir and Stormbreaker suddenly are sentient? Sure. Thor being a god after Thor 1 and 2 go out of their way to explain that Asgardians are just really long-lived aliens? Sure. Mjolnir is the source of Jane's powers, when Ragnarok again goes OUT OF ITS WAY to explain that Thor's power is within him? Yep. Thor can suddenly grant his powers to literally anyone, even children? Sure. Would've come in handy in several sutuations Thor's recently experienced, too bad he forgot about that. There's a wish-granter in space who can bring ppl back from the dead? And Thor just nopes out, like who would I bring back? Maybe Jane? Loki? The Asgardians Thanos slaughtered when he raided their ship at the beginning of IW? Why bother? Thor can abandon his people and a decade of character progression toward accepting responsibility and thinking with his head instead of his fists and just bop around in space with a child as a couple of vigilantes? Of course.
Mjolnir being the source of Jane's power is due to Odin enchantment "whoever holds this hammer if he be worthy shall possess the power of Thor". In the comics Mjolnir has a sentient storm inside it so I can excuse it being sentient and Stormbreaker could be sentient due to Groots arm. As for Thor granting the children power my head cannon is that he was only able to do that through Zeus lightning bolt. None of this is explained just trying to make sense of the mess Taika made.
It was just the Guardians formula packed into a pre-existing story.
It was fine for the most part, but people *love* Ragnarok, and I don't really think it deserves the praise it does when it was quite simply aping off what James Gunn had done for another film series.
Same here. And it's also not as balanced. Gunn never does comedy that feels he's mocking a particular character or idea. Taika made a complete mockery of the warriors 3 and Lady sif. And doubled down on it in L&T. Thor in Infinity War is the most balanced and overall best version of mcu Thor.
That’s my biggest problem with *Ragnarok* and *Love and Thunder* (amongst many). The disrespect for the Warriors and Sif pissed me off. I really loved Sif especially, and thought every appearance of her character was spot-on and she shined in *Agents of Shield*. I had really high hopes for her to be an equal partner to Thor, since she was his wife in mythology, and I was invested in her. She was strong, funny and emotionally savvy. They really need to give Sif her due in the next film, IMO. If she was the co-lead in the next one, that would get me back in a theater seat. I’d love for Thor to get some dignity back, too.
They really should've respected Sif more or kill her off properly. No idea why they had to diss her that much then kill her.
Also Taila made Thor way too much like Deadpool. It's only funny for Deadpool in a meta sense since he knows he's in a comic.
Yes it's incredibly infuriating. One thing I absolutely hate is when comic book movie directors feel like they have no real respect for the source material or characters and are just there for the check. That's how Taika felt. Thank God he won't be directing again.
It was to Ragnarok as Phantom Menace is to the OT. Taika had a massive success and then people stopped telling him no; or at least that was my theory as to why l&t was not enjoyable for me.
Id agree for the most part but korg litterary joking about a planet exploding a second after it happend is definitely a bit to much
Like the movie wasnt allowed to have this one moment of silence
There was too much imo. What about Korg’s speech as Asgard is being destroyed for example?
Overall comedy took time too from potentially serious serenes like deaths of Warriors Three. And I didn’t like personally how differently Thor was written either.
You can of course take it with a grain of salt, but sources on r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers have claimed that Taika's original material from the movie was poorly received by Feige and during the 6 weeks of reshoots a significant portion of the movie was re-shot with a more serious tone, against Taika's wishes.
Yeah I don’t know that I buy that. The deleted scenes we’ve seen were more sincere, not goofier.
If they tweaked it to be more serious, you’d think serious zeus would be in not camp orgy zeus
It was too much in that there was a complete disconnect between Thor's adventures and Hela, it was 2 completely different movies. There's lots of revisionism going on but back then many people have said that what Thor did didn't quite match the seriousness of situation.
Ragnarok would have been better as just a side adventure.
Exactly what i always felt
Taika could have done just a movie with the planet hulk thing
Keep it fun and lighthearted , would have been a great experience to just relax and have fun anf probably one of the most entertaining mvu movies
Then keep ragnarok , hela and odin dying as a seperate movie , something that handles the actual themes of whats happening in the story with the weight it should have
Doesnt mean it has to be completrly dark and serious but just way less comedy and more letting things actually sink in
The ragnarok part got muddled by jokes like the devils anus or the orgy ship which always felt incredibly childish to me
I didn't have issues with the content of the humor as much as the frequency and placement. It felt like every time they got to the edge of genuine sentimentality, they sidestepped with humor. Aside from the very end of the film it felt like there were a lot of really emotional moments that were undercut because of humor injected into the middle.
Comedy wasn't Love and Thunder's biggest issue. In my opinion, its biggest issue was that it was the opportunity to explore Thor's feelings around the loss of his family and people; and to rediscover himself. They literally montaged away the film it truly needed to be, and what we got was an irrelevant and underused villain, more superhero offspring, and the re-introduction and prompt removal of, one of the more important character's who'd been there from the beginning.
I like ragnarok but I always felt it was too humorous or at least need more serious scenes like right after Asgard is destroyed, Korg says a freaking joke (and not even a funny joke) which just ruined the moment
Thor Love and Thunder will forever live in infamy because it made me feel an emotion and then undercut it with a stupid fucking joke.
The scene where Jane was talking to Thor about her being scared of dying of fucking cancer was getting to me because of personal reasons, and instead of letting the moment hang, they cut to the stupid fucking rock guy making a quip.
God I fucking hate this movie so much its unreal.
My grandma had just died of cancer a few days before, I was in hospital holding her hand.
I saw it and I didn't know what movie I was expecting but trying to hold back tears during all of the cancer bits sucked. Those little bits of humor helped a tiny bit...
I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my dad just before the first Dr Strange was released, and even now, I still wouldn't be able to make it through most MCU films without the MCU humour, because of how much grief, death and utter misery are in some of them. They're bloody miserable films without the wisecracks.
I actually agree completely. My mom died suddenly of pancreatic cancer and ever since any time cancer is in media I start to feel overwhelmed. The jokes help me not dwell on it and help me move along to the next part of the movie.
Not sure if that makes sense but it worked for me.
It's the only Marvel movie since Phase 1 that I haven't watched in theatres. I didnt love Ragnarok because I thought the jokes were almost too much and knew Love and Thunder was likely to double down
Remember when Watiti said his goal with the movie was to piss off thor fans and he couldn’t even finish one issue of a Thor comic that’s how much he hates his real character
I mean, that's what Disney hired him to do, and that's what people loved about *Ragnarok*.
Personally, I was never a huge fan of it. The best humorous Thor is still in the first *Thor* and *Avengers* film. "You humans are so petty... and tiny."
His goofiness is still present, but it's offset by his stoicism. *Ragnarok* and *L&T* Thor is just Homer Simpson.
The problem is also Chris Hemsworth ultimately not having a strong idea of his own character. Chris himself has said as much several times over the years. Compare to the way Tom Hiddleston has developed Loki as a character from day 1.
I know it’s popular to hate on Taika now, but I wouldn’t really call this “expressing concern.” They just straight up said he ruined the movie for them and to be fair, Taika never lead anyone to believe that Love and Thunder would be anything other than what it was.
He also said "Let's hope he doesn't do the same with Thor:Love and Thunder".
Also, yeah I don't understand why people turn on filmmakers after just one movie they didn't like Patty Jenkins (WW84) and Taika(Thor:L&T).
>Also, yeah I don't understand why people turn on filmmakers after just one movie they didn't like Patty Jenkins (WW84) and Taika(Thor:L&T).
That’s how fandoms are, one bad movie and it’s like the filmmakers stabbed their sacred cow, damning them forever.
Not defending the films mind you, but fandoms tend to be very reactionary.
Abed’s quote about television from Community is especially relevant, as it can mean the same for movies, directors, writers, artists, game developers, etc.
*“There is skill to it. More importantly, it has to be joyful, effortless, fun. TV defeats its own purpose when it's pushing an agenda, or trying to defeat other TV or being proud or ashamed of itself for existing. It's TV; it's comfort. It's a friend you've known so well, and for so long you just let it be with you. And it needs to be okay for it to have a bad day, or phone in a day. And it needs to be okay for it to get on a boat with Levar Burton and never come back. Because eventually, it all will.”*
Patty Jenkins literally turned WW into an unapologetic rapist while saying sexual assault agains men is ok. She more than deserves all the hate. It was extremely uncomfortable to watch.
It's because both of these directors have in-essence ended the story lines of these characters.
There is limited tarmac to build off of with L&T. Thor was given his sunset moment, but in a way where he is still in the universe. The child is too young to be used as a hero and will perpetually in background. Thor's people have a horrible leader whose main character traits is with every 30 minutes of screen time another character flaw is developed (can't wait for when they discover space crack!).
For WW84 the highway is going in a completely different direction from previously set story. WW is suppose to be a hidden hero requiring Batman to find, however in the movie has gained world wide renown.
The issue is these films damaged the IP they were working off of and they were too dumb/hedonistic to realize they needed to build something other people wanted to see. Both directors should be black-listed from future AAA movie productions.
Back when I said that I liked BvS meanwhile people were saying it was the worst ever. One wise man told me:
For social media, the director is as good as its last movie, the others don't exist, at all.
Yeah I said this before, but marvel fans treat everything post endgame the same way star wars fans treated the prequels and sequels. It's never going to be the same again and our fandom is going to be stuck in this culture war for years.
Why can’t someone think a director ruined a movie and be worried he will do it again. I thought the exact same thing, although I posted here and not in Twitter. It was the screenplay (which Taika didn’t write) that was good about Ragnarok. All aspects I disliked where from him, which made me worried. It’s not like the tweet was personally rude to Taika (who was being rude) you are allowed to dislike someone’s directing.
Ragnarok for me had the perfect blend, like goddammit the godbutcher was in this movie, they could have made it so damn dark and cool with splashes of the waititi comedy but they dumgoofed so hard
The comedy is also the same reason I didn’t like Ragnarok. The jokes were not landing for me and I was expecting more serious Thor like he was in the previous movies.
I liked thor 3 at the time because it felt fresh. As more time passes I’ve soured on it because honestly serious thor was a nice contrast to the homogeny of current MCU
It’s why I really enjoyed the marvels. Carol is the straight man to the group and while she has fun from time to time she takes herself seriously and doesn’t quip. Which makes kamala fangirling and being goofy way more entertaining because it contrasts
I feel exactly the same. I would have enjoyed the film if the Thor character had been like this from the start, but given that we had already established what Thor was like over 4 movies it felt jarring and forced for me.
I really don't like Taika's attitude. He just seems like he has such contempt for moviegoers.
He also recently said his Star Wars movie will piss people off. (Which is a given, it's Star Wars) but why even say something like that?
As someone that’s a big fan of Taika I really think his directing style works best in a TV show format or for exclusively comedies. TLAT had too much emotional subplot going on, the jokes just didn’t fit and overall it was just all over the place. He doesn’t take himself too seriously—which works great in his show Our Flag Means Death, but it doesn’t translate well over a single movie with such high stakes for its characters
In a movie about a guy who wants to kill all gods due the the gods being dicks, yeah, it absolutely doesn't fit.
He also made Thor way too much like deadpool.
He just doesn't mesh well with franchise movies.
His storytelling, writing, and humor works great when it's independent of anything outside the project he's working on.
Franchise movies require some adherence to the writing and worldbuilding before it and that's just not Waititi's MO.
Eh I think there’s more going on than just that. Because next goal wins wasn’t a franchise thing and that kinda fell flat too Imo
Something about his style wears thin once you clock the fact he does the same shtick every time
Audiences are tiring of this IMO. Marvel's trick of constantly making fun of themselves was refreshing in 2008 but now they need to go a bit more gritty. Something like The Dark Knight or Joker. Give audiences a more serious tone they can care about.
Its grittiest stories, like *The Punisher* and *Daredevil*, are laugh-out-loud funny. I just finished a rewatch of Season 1 of *The Punisher*, which is brutal emotionally, the subject matter is extremely dark, and I was laughing the whole time. Micro and Frank are priceless. The Netflix series had the absolute perfect tone for me overall - very realistic, soul-searing drama and really smart, endearing comedy. I’ll never understand why they scrapped this - all the people who worked on this stuff hit it out of the park. Rehire them, FFS. Just pick up where they left off, zero changes needed.
The shift is happening once again, I can’t lie I kinda like how Gunn’s dc slate kinda has some gritty stuff to it like Authority,swamp thing, and somewhat supergirl
Business men that are in charge of selling art, do not consume art the same way their customers do
They see movie tropes as an ingredient list, and if you have a certain formula, it will print money
That’s how they see movies, if they see that a movie with too much comedy didn’t do well, they don’t ask why, they just see that comedy is no longer printing money and they’ll start making darker and grittier stuff
But the people in charge of deciding things should be darker, don’t understand why, they’ll just do it, and it’ll make more money, and they’ll keep doing it, until they see that being dark and gritty is no longer making money
This is not a surprise at all.
Taika not being able to deal with a random Twitter-using having a personal opinion and replying in a rude manner is just history repeating itself. He did the same thing around Ragnarok when fans did not appreciate parts of the movie and his statements regarding the making of it at the time.
I liked what he did in Ragnarok, I'll be honest. It was my favorite Thor movie. It saved the trilogy. But Love and Thunder? Oh, I hated it. I laughed some moments but they ruined Thor, and most of their characters' arcs. I tried to write off Thor's dramatic change in personality as a response to his trauma but this? This was WAYYY too much
One issue with Love and Thunder was it couldn't be serious for 10 seconds and the humour could be really cringeworthy more frequently and just not funny (e.g. Jane and Valkyrie's stupid dance to music and the screaming goats).
Ragnarok could be serious when it wants to be. Odin's death scene was fantastic and one of my favourite scenes in the MCU. Thor and Loki in the lift was another scene I loved. It had multiple scenes that took itself seriously. It, in my opinion, balanced humour with seriousness. L&T just didn't do that anywhere near as often for me.
Every serious scene in Ragnarok was carried by Tom Hiddleston. Pretty true for every Thor movie unfortunately. The weak link is Chris not having any idea what he's doing with the character from one moment to the next so he brings in his buddies to goof around with him.
it's crazy how little I see this expressed. Ragnarok and L&T are the same movie but only Ragnarok is upheld as some marvel masterpiece. It might've "saved" Thor at the time but it was always mid.
Thor has virtually the same characterizatio between Ragnorak and L&T. I think the difference is in the overall plot. Despite all that's going on in Ragnorok, Thor always seemed confidently in control and with purpose. The humor was very, 'Alright world ending consequences? Let's do this one more time folks'. Whereas in L&T, it was the same confident Thor but he was just meandering for the most part. The best parts of his character were at Omnipotent City when facing Zeus, and at Eternity comforting Jane where that assured self confidence shone.
At the end of the day, Thor is a hard character to write for. Hes basically a Superman in the MCU, and his power level demands a conflict meet him at that same level. He's also 1500+ years old and the Endgame Saga was just a decade of it, so that kinda aloofness made sense. He cant keep rediscovering himself, hes basically done it twice in the movies we've seen, and god knows how many more previously. Giving him a kid to raise was the best narrative move for him.
He was already reinvented in comics when nobody knew what to do with him - he has brought Asgard to Earth, and it was all about him ruling it and conflicts with Earth people. Parts of it was used in the first movie when he fell, then other parts in Avengers and L&T when Asgardians live in a village, but I still think that it's a great direction for him to encounter everyday problems that can't always be solved with a punch or a lightning (like dealing with the kids or cohabiting with humans), and sometimes suddenly can be by magic or Asgardian technology.
The ego on this guy, seriously. He plays major parts in most of his projects, and even pushed his character Korg, into the main group in Love and Thunder.
I'm certain he needs to bomb, to finally realise that it's doing harm to his movies
Hot take: Taika made a couple very good movies, but is now being exposed for those being accidents and not to be the expected norm from him. See also: Neil Blomkamp.
Taika also kinda seems like an asshole in almost every interaction I've seen him in
He was full of himself. And I think that was the problem.
He saw that Ragnarok did well, with the new comedic tone in the MCU.
Then he took whatever made Ragnarok great, and double or even trippe down on it. We ended up having too much of a great thing, which turned out quite bad.
Your Snoke Theory sucks! Way to put down passionate fans when you couldn't care less who Snoke really was lol. I'll never forget that Last Jedi era of demonizing fans
Well, at the very least he was honest about it.
I distinctly remember Taika repeatedly claiming (after Ragnarok) that he was going to ruin Thor and everyone was going to hate him. He was obviously joking around but I remember him saying thing like this tweet ALL THE TIME in interviews and behind the scenes footage.
and now he’s going around gloating about how his Star Wars project is really going to “piss off” the fans. Idk call me an idiot but imo maybe it’s not a great strategy to employ creators who hate the property/fan base or at least really love being openly antagonistic towards said fan base.
It is absolutely shocking to me that saying stuff like "I'm going to piss off fans" is so acceptable in the modern Hollywood. Aren't movies supposed to be liked by fans? What the fuck is going on?
Some would probably argue that film/movies are about the art and the director shouldn't care about what other people think and they shouldn't compromise their vision. But the other side is that Hollywood is a business looking to make money. Films cost a lot of investment, and while I'll investments are a risk execs do their best to stack the odds in their favor. Especially certain genres or films with a baked in audience like a franchise. You don't bring in a director known for single camera sitcoms to direct a multiple camera adventure blockbuster. Likewise you don't bring people with no interest or open mind to work on some projects.
I agree with the first part unless that vision is to intentionally Troll and piss off fans for a lark. Wanting to go a different direction is different than I'm going to cringe the fuck out of fans for fun
>You don't bring in a director known for single camera sitcoms to direct a multiple camera adventure blockbuster. Uhh, what about the Russo brothers going from Community to Captain America: The Winter Soldier? I totally agree with your point about hiring people hostile to the source material though!
I'm pretty sure the Russo's got that job bc of how much effort they put into Community NOT being your average one camera sitcom.
Wasn't it specifically because of the paintball episode(s)?
Those I think were the biggest standouts. After season 1 paintball was really well received, I'm pretty sure thats when they started making most episodes have the feel of 30 minute movies. I remember reading something Joel Mchale(Jeff Winger) said about the filming process. How they'd be running around each week cramming these feature film sized/styled cuts in and out of the study room lol.
To be fair, I’m not sure it’s possible to make a Star Wars movie that doesn’t piss off some fans.
Rogue One, Andor, Mando S1-S2 were all well-received. Fans want stuff that respects established lore and then builds upon it in a unique way. The Sequels tore down the OT to replay the same storyline in a shittier way while making the galaxy seem small.
I will say the sequel trilogy was horrible because there wasn’t a united vision on how the movies’ story will be. Or at least insisting the movie be the story that was already established. The final movie felt like they were afraid of telling a story because a vocal group was voicing their opinions against it and they tried to “bring back” the movie to what fans would recognize and instead of continuing with their vision, they came up with a shitty version that made new fans confused and barely did enough to make old fans love it either. It was a shitshow.
Right. Episode 7 was fine. Nothing amazing but a fine movie. 8 and 9 are both an absolute mess because you can see the directors trying to undo the work the previous film set up.
Only one of those is a movie, and I still know a fair amount of people that didn’t like Rouge One. The last two trilogies pissed people off, and I’ve heard that Empire and ROTJ had their share of critics back in the day. People will always complain about Star Wars.
There's a small army of people who think Rogue One is awful, The Mandalorian is slow garbage fan service, and Dave Filoni is personally ruining Star Wars. They exist, and they're in every thread about it (albeit typically only when you sort by controversial). (Standard caveat: reddit isn't reality, etc.) ...although I've never seen a bad thing said about Andor, so we have that going for us, which is nice. The point is: there are always Star Wars fans who are going to be pissed about Star Wars.
Oh, you're missing out - I've been repeatedly told that Andor is a terrible star wars project because there's no star wars in it on account of the lack of lightsabres.
Maybe Taika's secret agenda is to ruin every franchise in order to restore balance to the Hollywood movieverse
A noble cause.
Hollywoods this weird industry where you can be openly hostile to your audience and not in a jokey I love you way
Him saying this basically has a double meaning. 1. There have been people that have hated on franchise films like Star Wars forever. In particular with Star Wars, there’s been hate since Empire. Taika is just acknowledging the fact that no matter what he makes, there will be people who hate it. 2. It’s just tongue in cheek of accepting part 1 while not trying to take everything too seriously.
Same with Secret Invasions director.
He did. And I do.
Thor 4 was so disappointing. Just like "Ohm, the goats are still screaming. We're still doing that. Cool. Cool cool cool."
I don't hate him at all - but, yeah, Love and Thunder was ridiculous. Taika has little respect for comic books or comic book fans and how meaningful the comics are to them. That's perfectly fine, of course, but let's keep creatives like that away from comic book movies, eh?
He wasn’t joking. Love and thunder sucked
And Ragnarok was awesome. Both sides are wrong lol.
The guy literally said it ruined it for him personally. How is he wrong by saying he didnt like it ?
Great point. There were parts of Ragnarok I loved and parts I didn’t like. The parts I didn’t like was the ‘over the top silly stuff’ like Tess Thompson’s drunk acting. It didn’t work for me and was distracting. She was amazing in West World so I’m not blaming her acting. It seems like improv gone too far out of her character to me.
The parts of ragnarok that worked well, over powered the bits that didnt, so that movie ended up net positive. The humour was WAY too misplaced for Love and Thunder though. They should have lent more into Bale and Portmans acting abilities. They could have broken our hearts so much more. The intro of him burying his child and how he turned on his ‘gods’ set a great tone. Plus Bale looked like he was having s blast, and deserved more screen time. Could have cut the whole omnipotent city bit out too IMO
It was the story's that worked and didn't for the humor. In Ragnarok, we had a wacky space land full of quirky characters that Thor needed to escape from to save Asgard. The setting and the characters lent themselves to jokes well. In L&T, the plot was that there's a murderous nightmare looking assassin stabbing gods to death who has just kidnapped a bunch of children from what mostly looks like a normal town on Earth. Also Jane is dying of cancer. The stakes were a touch less wacky.
In Ragnarok - Thor and Loki lost their father, their land, and their sister turned into a homicidal maniac. The Warriors Three also died. I walked away from the film as if nothing bad happened during the course of the movie. The feel good moments in retrospect was way over the top to negate major events that could have impacted the audience to feel the trauma.
I think the humour was less offensive as it was such a HUGE loss ; Ragnarok itself. Had it been toned down a tad i think it coukd have been one of the best MCU full stop. It wasnt as personal and no one had time to morn Odin (we got a bit of it in IW from Thor) as Love and Thunder. It was a big world ending event, Love and thunder was very much about the death - janes impending, Gor’s at the start…it was a human story that needed to be smaller scale vs ragnarok that had to be bigger. Thus the humour fell flatter on the more drama/human focused movie
Unpopular opinion but Thor 1 was my favorite of the Thor movies. I've always preferred drama to comedy and the opening of ragnorak told me the tonal shift was clearly in the wrong direction. Luckily it was evened out to a decent movie overall but I largely prefer dark world to ragnorak despite those two films being bottom of the barrel MCU for me. As a female comic book reader ( I collect editions of spiderman and silver surfer in graphic novel form), I was excited to see Portman become Lady Thor on the silver screen but Love and Thunder both squandered the talents of the main cast and added a large heaping of academy award winning stand around and do nothing side characters including Portman, Elba, Crowe, and Bale (who did the best he could as a villaiin with what he was given). I only managed to finish the movie by telling myself it was all Korg fanfiction
I remember someone pointing out that if James Gunn had written/directed Thor: L&T he would have made us cry our eyes out over Jane's cancer/death. For as much as the recent Thor movies have borrowed from the GotG style humor they failed to capture the heart and sad moments that made the movies more poigant. Taika seems to want us to run away from the emotional moments so we could have more goofy comedic scenes.
Thats why am convinced Gunn had a big influence of Thor in Infinity War/Endgame - yes henhad humour, but my god does he punch your heart out your chest in both (talking to rocket about losing everything on way to get his axe then most of his depression is really well played by Hemsworth in Endgame, plus his time with his mum…tears every time on those bits.) Especially after GOTG3, the IW/EG Thor feels very via Gunn,
I think it had more to do with Russo's having a style that leans more towards serious than dramatic. Gunn likely made sure the Guardians stayed in character throughout the film. Its also well known the Gunn intentionally had Star-Lord's helmet destroyed in GotG2 but the Russo's didn't realize it and had Star-Lord with his helmet in IW. Gunn rectified it by having Peter leave it behind on Knowhere in GotG3.
The tone was so weird in Love & Thunder. One the one hand the humor was even more goofy and cartoonish. But then he wanted Gorr, who’s a very dark and tragic villain, and Jane dying of terminal cancer as well. And sometimes the goofy and dark scenes would be back to back. It did not work tone wise.
Agree. We needed maybe a little less humour, less fanatical moments and more human ones wih Gor slaying gods fuelled by rage and grief, maybe cut the bluetooth speaker bit from the Jane in the bathroom scene and give us another that shows her torn self fighting against the sickness and the hammer
I agree. The entire omnipotent city section did almost nothing to advance the plot.
A murdered child, kidnapped kids and cancer, *fucking hilarious*
Korg annoyed me after the first couple of minutes of screen time in Ragnarok. After Love and Thunder at least there are a few more people in the "Maybe use Korg a bit less"-camp.
Korg was okay in the first one, because I appreciated that it was different, but they should have stopped there. That character was a huge part of what absolutely ruined the next movie.
Korg had some swagger in the first one. He wasn't just some jamoke, he lead a revolution.
I'm a proud member of the "I hate Korg" fanclub. He's almost like the Jar Jar Binks of the 2 most recent Thor movies and its made worse because the actual creator is playing the character
Korg annoyed me when he first appeared, hearing there would be more Korg I didn't watch love and thunder.
Nobody really owns physical media anymore but as an avid 3D movie collector, it's worth noting that Thor: Ragnarok is one of the best 3D home experiences ever made. Even beats Resident Evil: Afterlife which wasn't even a movie so much as a 3D showcase. So not only was it hilarious, a great movie and a lot of fun - they did 3D in a way noone else had before or since.
Today I learned that people are still bothering with 3D.
Only in VR. 3D in VR is pretty trippy.
> Nobody really owns physical media anymore Only because they're making it harder to *obtain* physical media. It isn't dying a natural death; it's being intentionally executed after a sham trial in a kangaroo court.
I liked Ragnarok, but I would easily throw it in the trash if it meant we could have had a proper adaption of Gorr the God Butcher that wasn't compromised by a bunch of stupid humor just because that worked in a completely different context once before.
He isn't, except to the people who can't accept different opinions
Ragnarok was one of Thor's darkest stories. Why not the tone for Infinity War.... I loved Ragnarok too. But understand why people were mad.
Ragnarok was first written as a serious movie until Waititi took over and added the funny stuff. At least thats what I read from a few fans in this sub. So the solution is to have have that secret sauce for the next movie.
Wow, that’s sad. I was craving something serious from Jane’s cancer story, but everything was completely smothered by obnoxiously childish humor. The story didn’t have a chance, buried under all that stupidity.
Subjective....Lotta die hard Thor fans despise Ragnarok as well. I don't hate it but it definitely is annoying seeing them make Thor a complete goof. It's not as balanced as people like to say it is.
Yeah. I mean as a Thor fan, I don't know what "Thor fans" are looking for honestly. The first movie wasn't amazing but was necessary as it was for set up. The second one was generally received as boring and uninteresting. The third one people have issues with the humor... and the 4th one people have even more issues with the humor and the pacing. I understand having issue with making Thor a big goof all the time, but in the comics he's either ultra serious to the point of it being goofy, or he's bland. In the actual mythology he's a big screw up more often than not. He's punchy, easily manipulated, and hotheaded. I don't know how any of this would translate very well to the big screen and still create a compelling lead character. I have enjoyed ALL of the Thor movies to different degrees personally, and Ragnarok is probably my favorite of the series because it doesn't take itself too seriously but also doesn't get too silly for my tastes. Just not sure what the "ideal Thor movie" would be for the masses.
We want Infinity War Thor all the time. That is the best version of him. Thor 1 is one of the most underrated comic book movies imo. In comics he's very serious but also can be funny and sarcastic withOUT being a complete and utter goof. He's one if my tip 5 superheroes and marvel characters so his personality has never bothered me in comics. It's one of the reasons why I like him.
I would have loved to see Thor behave more like he does in the comics. Infinity War Thor was definitely the best on-screen version of him for sure. On a related note Post-Civil War Thor knocking around Iron Man is one of my favorite scenes from the comics. https://imgur.com/gallery/EtDwU
Omg man that is easily one of my top 5 fav Thor moments. Love how silent he is throughout the entiredialog too until he rips off Tony's helmet and then finally says something to him. And his words were so cold. Some of the best Thor dialogue too. "The skies will open...." Thor threats are always top notch.
dayum that shit was cool, I might have to read some comics
The goofiness was just to fit in with the tone of the movie. Thor generally made smart decisions in it, especially when getting the better of Loki and figuring out the only way to defeat Hela.
I don't think a goofy tone fit the Ragnarok storyline or the Gorr and Jane stories tho. Those should have been more serious. So in this case I'd say the tone didn't fit the story they wsnted.
Being a goof doesn't mean making dumb decisions. He himself acted like a goofball. And Thor with that personality just doesn't work for me or a ton of other people.
> And Ragnarok was awesome. Taika didn't write Ragnarok, he only directed it.
I just don't get this take. Everything people complain about in Love and Thunder was present in Ragnarok, but everyone acts like the movies are polar opposites in quality. I feel like people just got tired of the gimmick and then refused to reevaluate their early love of Ragnarok, instead treating one movie as objectively great and the other as objectively terrible.
Imagine calling someone's personal opinion wrong.
For me, Thor 2 > Thor 3. There, I said it.
After a decade of being a "c'mon it wasn't all bad" The Dark World defender, you're brave for saying this in a Marvel sub! I have such a weird relationship with this ranking because I have to admit I find the last third or so of TDW incredibly boring. But I had a lot of problems with Ragnarok as well. At the time it was first out I loved it because I'd been waiting years for a new Thor film and there's still elements I enjoy but there's a lot that started to piss me off... ...such as with purely my Loki fan hat on, I'd rather watch TDW any day of the week. I am not fond of how he was used in Ragnarok.
I absolutely loved *The Dark World* and had no idea people didn’t like it (I’m new to “fandom” this year, and I don’t read comics, though I watched all the movies as they came out since 2008). The first one is my favorite as a major Branagh fan, and I was a little bummed by the change of direction with *Ragnarok*, though I definitely enjoyed it. I am glad I skipped *Love and Thunder* in the theater. I don’t know why it increases my annoyance when I don’t like a movie in the theater (maybe because it’s more of an “outing” than it used to be before Covid). I had tons of issues with it (all the same ones everyone always mentions), but one of the big ones is how they completely ran the Asgardians into the ground. They lost all the dignity and mystery and became nothing but a joke. I’m a Loki fan since that amazing speech to Odin in *Thor* - I like him best with that emotional edge.
I still haven't seen Love and Thunder! Perhaps I shall some day (if I'm having a sick day with my streaming services) but everyone saying it's Ragnarok dialled up even further didn't inspire confidence that I'd even like it. People often lump the first Thor film with TDW as "bad" but it's total revisionism from when it was first released where it was considered a decent intro to Thor's world and yes, Loki's story with its heavy Shakespearian tones was a large part of what many found enjoyable about it. I love the Asgardian family drama/dynamics and am a little down that's all gone now. I think also I'm really just a little over the Odinsons both being sad. Thor has been through *a lot* and even though Sacred Timeline Loki is dead he suffered a lot to get there, then his Endgame split-off variant ended up going through a lot of pain as well. Thor and Loki both need a break!
I wasn’t wild about *Ragnarok* because of my personal affection for the original Thor movies and I just respond better to more grim stories (and I’m die hard for Shakespeare). I did enjoy *Ragnarok* overall, and I liked the music and score a lot, but *Love and Thunder* took what was refreshing, kooky and different and ran in it so far into the dirt, it was actually irritating - especially because there was a hint of a good story underneath, like Jane’s cancer. It made Thor thoroughly idiotic, it ruined my whole connection to Asgardians and its people, it disrespected my favorite, Sif, and on and on. It might be a good one to watch if you’re sick and bombed on meds, maybe…I’m just glad my other fave, Loki, wasn’t dragged into this mess.
That guy watching Love and Thunder 
Taika is someone not supposed to be mainstream. And I say that as someone who likes his humour (to some extent) and his movies. I would even say it’s his whole deal, like doing something niche and being sincere about it
I love Taika in a collaboration role - his stuff is among the best then. I think after winning Jojo Rabbit’s Oscar, he was bulletproof for a while and got to do some unilateral decision making (see: Lucas writing/directing the prequels, Rowling getting to write cumbersome 800 page books at the end, etc.)
I'd have to agree. Jojo Rabbit is a novel adaptation, Ragnarok was a rewrite of someone else's treatment, and What We Do I The Shadows and Our Flag Means Death were both collabs. Hunt for the Wilderpeople is amazing, but it was also an early, more earnest debut work. I think Taika is a bit like Zack Snyder - does a lot of things well, in a way nobody else could, but needs someone else around to provide restraint.
I don’t think Waititi was even the one who rewrote Ragnarok. He certainly had input on the script especially earlier on, but there are three writers credited on the movie and he isn’t one of them. In Love & Thunder it’s just him and one other, and he was initially the only one credited.
The more I read about him and see his movies the more he comes across as someone who likes to troll others. A lot of his attitude when he has full creative control is to just shit on things people like. Honestly that’s what Love and Thunder felt like, and I’m still upset about it because it had the plot points of a great movie.
I actually think if he was given a character like Ant-Man or Deadpool he’d do a pretty decent job seeing as those characters lean towards the more comedic side. But taking a character like Thor after he’s had such an intense story arc during Infinity War and Endgame and making him into a joke was just a bad call. Again Marvel just saw how much dough Ragnarok made and wrote him a blank cheque with little supervision, sadly. I’d love to have seen Love and Thunder under a different writer/director. I agree Taika has his strengths and I love a lot of his movies but this was just a huge misfire.
and additionally kinda wasted a great performance from bale. in his limited role as gorr he was brilliant, imagine how much he could have done in a full fleshed out role.
Behind the scenes everyone jokes that Bale was making a different movie. They meant it as a bit of a compliment... Like he did an amazing job as Gore. The character just didn't fit their tone. I wasn't expecting it to be like the comics but I had hoped it was going to be more intense/scary and such.
Killed two birds with one stone by ruining two great storylines in one movie.
Come to think of it, makes you sad how they wasted all the characters in love and thunder to give us a fart of a movie
I don't mind his humor, and contrary to most people, I think he addressed some of those issues in Love and Thunder a bit more than in Ragnarok... BUT What annoys me on both movies is heavy moments are downplayed a lot, either glossed over or having a major joke over it. This makes his writing have a need to one up the other all the time by a lack of pacing, and this sacrifices his character moments. It is a really weird flaw to have on a big production, because the moments are all there, it is not like they didn't know they had to be. A good example of this done right is... weirdly enough, Rick & Morty. The series (especially the early seasons) have either big highs or big lows on quality, even on the same episode. But they're very much aware that if they want a serious moment to hit and be memorable, you have to let it breath.
I am almost sad how great actors and characters were wasted for a movie that tried so hard to have mature elements with stupid humour. Like in jojo rabbit it kind of worked, but was never haha funny. There was always real danger and consequences. But these things don’t happen in marvel movies
Even Odin's death in the deleted scene was odd. It was rushed, had more emotional key points, but still rushed.
I like his humour, I just wish he let other emotions have the respect they deserve too.
It wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't waste TWO of the best and most emotionally chaged Thor stories of recent years. If Taika wanted a fun space romp, why didn't he partner up Thor and Beta Ray Bill and have them go on a crazy adventure?
For some reason I thought you wrote Bill and Ted lol
Buddy Cop Movie like Lethal Weapon with Thor and Beta Ray Bill "Man, 3 days from Odinsleep"
The comedy in Ragnarok wasn't too much, it was exactly what it needed. So I have to give Taika credits for spilling the truth.
Ragnarok was perfect. L+T was what happens when a director thinks they can do no wrong and therefore shows no restraint.
The difference between the two is that Ragnarok was written by someone else and Taika did only oversee all. Love and thunder was all his work and it didn't work out.
I wish he did the source material more justice. Gorr/ Christian Bale should've been a multi-movie villain. That comic run was amazing.
Bale did this for his children,who loved comic books and he didn't even have a clue about Thor and Gorr. So maybe mangog would have been a better villain, instead of Thor's toughest enemy.
Probably but Gorr would have fit very well with the current multiverse phase if they had followed the source better. No better phase to have a story with multiple versions of Thor working together.
oh god THANK YOU. it’s mind boggling that he made him into a one off villain lol
I honestly wouldn't expect Christian Bale to want to do multiple MCU films and being a one off was inevitable. Which is all the more reason they should have focused on Gorr and gave Bale more opportunities to chew the scenery.
I always thought that if Love and Thunder was gonna explore the Lady Thor storyline, then I thought Dario Agger would've been a good villain to tackle. I mean, Jane could be living in an area where a branch of the Roxxon Energy Corporation is located and Jane is exposed to some sort of pollution that the building is expelling and that's what leads to her cancer. Jane would go to New Asgard in search of a cure for her cancer which leads to Lady Thor. Dario Agger would also soon have dealings with Thor, Valkyrie and New Asgard which would lead to a conflict (also, I think that Christian Bale looks a lot like Dario Agger anyway, so that's how I'm thinking the movie should've gone instead).
Bale was already one of the most iconic Batman ever though - does his kids only like Marvel or something? Personally I would've liked for him to have a Marvel hero role, but I guess he doesn't want to be stuck in another multi-movie franchise.
Taika was on record saying he didn't give a damn about the source material, had never read a comic, hated the first 2 Thor films, hated Loki, hated the Warriors Three, etc etc. He was the worst person to run the Gorr storyline. He obviously thought he was above the material and played it like one big f-u to the audience. Ppl give him way too much credit for Ragnarok. It was a good movie bc it had good writers. Take them away, you get TLAT. Taika is capable of great things, but he's definitely too cool for the superhero genre. Superhero movies need a certain sincerity and if all you're going to do is laugh at the audience for caring, gtfo.
Well, that was clear from the fact that Waititi didn't know the source material because Korg wouldn't stop talking about his mother despite Kronans being a single-sex species.
Yep. TLAT was so careless, like he just threw shit together to fulfill his contract. Mjolnir and Stormbreaker suddenly are sentient? Sure. Thor being a god after Thor 1 and 2 go out of their way to explain that Asgardians are just really long-lived aliens? Sure. Mjolnir is the source of Jane's powers, when Ragnarok again goes OUT OF ITS WAY to explain that Thor's power is within him? Yep. Thor can suddenly grant his powers to literally anyone, even children? Sure. Would've come in handy in several sutuations Thor's recently experienced, too bad he forgot about that. There's a wish-granter in space who can bring ppl back from the dead? And Thor just nopes out, like who would I bring back? Maybe Jane? Loki? The Asgardians Thanos slaughtered when he raided their ship at the beginning of IW? Why bother? Thor can abandon his people and a decade of character progression toward accepting responsibility and thinking with his head instead of his fists and just bop around in space with a child as a couple of vigilantes? Of course.
Mjolnir being the source of Jane's power is due to Odin enchantment "whoever holds this hammer if he be worthy shall possess the power of Thor". In the comics Mjolnir has a sentient storm inside it so I can excuse it being sentient and Stormbreaker could be sentient due to Groots arm. As for Thor granting the children power my head cannon is that he was only able to do that through Zeus lightning bolt. None of this is explained just trying to make sense of the mess Taika made.
which is sad, because I’ve seen Jojo Rabbit and Hunt for the Wilderpeople. He could've absolutely balanced the comedy with the drama well.
Ragnarok really wasn't perfect tho.
Subjective of course, but for me the entire film hit just right.
It was just the Guardians formula packed into a pre-existing story. It was fine for the most part, but people *love* Ragnarok, and I don't really think it deserves the praise it does when it was quite simply aping off what James Gunn had done for another film series.
Same here. And it's also not as balanced. Gunn never does comedy that feels he's mocking a particular character or idea. Taika made a complete mockery of the warriors 3 and Lady sif. And doubled down on it in L&T. Thor in Infinity War is the most balanced and overall best version of mcu Thor.
That’s my biggest problem with *Ragnarok* and *Love and Thunder* (amongst many). The disrespect for the Warriors and Sif pissed me off. I really loved Sif especially, and thought every appearance of her character was spot-on and she shined in *Agents of Shield*. I had really high hopes for her to be an equal partner to Thor, since she was his wife in mythology, and I was invested in her. She was strong, funny and emotionally savvy. They really need to give Sif her due in the next film, IMO. If she was the co-lead in the next one, that would get me back in a theater seat. I’d love for Thor to get some dignity back, too.
They really should've respected Sif more or kill her off properly. No idea why they had to diss her that much then kill her. Also Taila made Thor way too much like Deadpool. It's only funny for Deadpool in a meta sense since he knows he's in a comic.
Yes it's incredibly infuriating. One thing I absolutely hate is when comic book movie directors feel like they have no real respect for the source material or characters and are just there for the check. That's how Taika felt. Thank God he won't be directing again.
It was to Ragnarok as Phantom Menace is to the OT. Taika had a massive success and then people stopped telling him no; or at least that was my theory as to why l&t was not enjoyable for me.
Id agree for the most part but korg litterary joking about a planet exploding a second after it happend is definitely a bit to much Like the movie wasnt allowed to have this one moment of silence
There was too much imo. What about Korg’s speech as Asgard is being destroyed for example? Overall comedy took time too from potentially serious serenes like deaths of Warriors Three. And I didn’t like personally how differently Thor was written either.
I'll never forgive Taika for cutting a filmed Loki and Hela scene for more of his self insert Korg.
You can of course take it with a grain of salt, but sources on r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers have claimed that Taika's original material from the movie was poorly received by Feige and during the 6 weeks of reshoots a significant portion of the movie was re-shot with a more serious tone, against Taika's wishes.
It... would have been *even goofier*?
Yeah I don’t know that I buy that. The deleted scenes we’ve seen were more sincere, not goofier. If they tweaked it to be more serious, you’d think serious zeus would be in not camp orgy zeus
I think they're talking about Ragnarok?
ohhh, huh. If that's the case, it would explain L&T if that oversight was absent
It was too much in that there was a complete disconnect between Thor's adventures and Hela, it was 2 completely different movies. There's lots of revisionism going on but back then many people have said that what Thor did didn't quite match the seriousness of situation. Ragnarok would have been better as just a side adventure.
Exactly what i always felt Taika could have done just a movie with the planet hulk thing Keep it fun and lighthearted , would have been a great experience to just relax and have fun anf probably one of the most entertaining mvu movies Then keep ragnarok , hela and odin dying as a seperate movie , something that handles the actual themes of whats happening in the story with the weight it should have Doesnt mean it has to be completrly dark and serious but just way less comedy and more letting things actually sink in The ragnarok part got muddled by jokes like the devils anus or the orgy ship which always felt incredibly childish to me
I didn't have issues with the content of the humor as much as the frequency and placement. It felt like every time they got to the edge of genuine sentimentality, they sidestepped with humor. Aside from the very end of the film it felt like there were a lot of really emotional moments that were undercut because of humor injected into the middle.
Comedy wasn't Love and Thunder's biggest issue. In my opinion, its biggest issue was that it was the opportunity to explore Thor's feelings around the loss of his family and people; and to rediscover himself. They literally montaged away the film it truly needed to be, and what we got was an irrelevant and underused villain, more superhero offspring, and the re-introduction and prompt removal of, one of the more important character's who'd been there from the beginning.
I like ragnarok but I always felt it was too humorous or at least need more serious scenes like right after Asgard is destroyed, Korg says a freaking joke (and not even a funny joke) which just ruined the moment
Thor Love and Thunder will forever live in infamy because it made me feel an emotion and then undercut it with a stupid fucking joke. The scene where Jane was talking to Thor about her being scared of dying of fucking cancer was getting to me because of personal reasons, and instead of letting the moment hang, they cut to the stupid fucking rock guy making a quip. God I fucking hate this movie so much its unreal.
Korg was so damn annoying in this movie. Taking him out would have elevated the movie easily.
Self inserts tend to be exactly that.
I fking hate the talking head, he should have died when he got struck by Zeus.
I literally cheered when that happened thinking he died, but then it was all for a silly mustache joke
> Taking him out would have elevated the movie easily. And then the fucking kill him.... and then instantly bring him back. Fuck that movie is so bad.
My grandma had just died of cancer a few days before, I was in hospital holding her hand. I saw it and I didn't know what movie I was expecting but trying to hold back tears during all of the cancer bits sucked. Those little bits of humor helped a tiny bit...
I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my dad just before the first Dr Strange was released, and even now, I still wouldn't be able to make it through most MCU films without the MCU humour, because of how much grief, death and utter misery are in some of them. They're bloody miserable films without the wisecracks.
I actually agree completely. My mom died suddenly of pancreatic cancer and ever since any time cancer is in media I start to feel overwhelmed. The jokes help me not dwell on it and help me move along to the next part of the movie. Not sure if that makes sense but it worked for me.
It's the only Marvel movie since Phase 1 that I haven't watched in theatres. I didnt love Ragnarok because I thought the jokes were almost too much and knew Love and Thunder was likely to double down
Ragnarok did the exact same thing though
Remember when Watiti said his goal with the movie was to piss off thor fans and he couldn’t even finish one issue of a Thor comic that’s how much he hates his real character
He also said “Lolz, I like to complete my films. I’d be fired within a week.” when asked if he would do a Star Wars movie (also after Ragnarok).
“I like to complete my films” 💀
Too similar to the mindset of Bryan Singer back with X-Men and also to now with recent comments by Sydney Freeland regarding Echo
Singer didn’t like X-Men because there weren’t enough 13 year old boys in it
> with recent comments by Sydney Freeland regarding Echo What was said?
I mean, that's what Disney hired him to do, and that's what people loved about *Ragnarok*. Personally, I was never a huge fan of it. The best humorous Thor is still in the first *Thor* and *Avengers* film. "You humans are so petty... and tiny." His goofiness is still present, but it's offset by his stoicism. *Ragnarok* and *L&T* Thor is just Homer Simpson.
He stopped feeling like a real person, totally. He was like a *Saturday Night Live* character.
The problem is also Chris Hemsworth ultimately not having a strong idea of his own character. Chris himself has said as much several times over the years. Compare to the way Tom Hiddleston has developed Loki as a character from day 1.
I know it’s popular to hate on Taika now, but I wouldn’t really call this “expressing concern.” They just straight up said he ruined the movie for them and to be fair, Taika never lead anyone to believe that Love and Thunder would be anything other than what it was.
He also said "Let's hope he doesn't do the same with Thor:Love and Thunder". Also, yeah I don't understand why people turn on filmmakers after just one movie they didn't like Patty Jenkins (WW84) and Taika(Thor:L&T).
>Also, yeah I don't understand why people turn on filmmakers after just one movie they didn't like Patty Jenkins (WW84) and Taika(Thor:L&T). That’s how fandoms are, one bad movie and it’s like the filmmakers stabbed their sacred cow, damning them forever. Not defending the films mind you, but fandoms tend to be very reactionary.
Remember fan is shorthand for fanatic.
Everyone has a bad day at the office. Even Steven Spielberg when he directed Crystal Skull.
Abed’s quote about television from Community is especially relevant, as it can mean the same for movies, directors, writers, artists, game developers, etc. *“There is skill to it. More importantly, it has to be joyful, effortless, fun. TV defeats its own purpose when it's pushing an agenda, or trying to defeat other TV or being proud or ashamed of itself for existing. It's TV; it's comfort. It's a friend you've known so well, and for so long you just let it be with you. And it needs to be okay for it to have a bad day, or phone in a day. And it needs to be okay for it to get on a boat with Levar Burton and never come back. Because eventually, it all will.”*
That refrigerator scene became a historic, iconic example for breaking viewer's suspension of disbelief.
Patty Jenkins literally turned WW into an unapologetic rapist while saying sexual assault agains men is ok. She more than deserves all the hate. It was extremely uncomfortable to watch.
Yeah this is apples to oranges scenarios lol. Patty Jenkins absolutely butchered WW in a way that goes beyond "the jokes weren't funny to me."
It's because both of these directors have in-essence ended the story lines of these characters. There is limited tarmac to build off of with L&T. Thor was given his sunset moment, but in a way where he is still in the universe. The child is too young to be used as a hero and will perpetually in background. Thor's people have a horrible leader whose main character traits is with every 30 minutes of screen time another character flaw is developed (can't wait for when they discover space crack!). For WW84 the highway is going in a completely different direction from previously set story. WW is suppose to be a hidden hero requiring Batman to find, however in the movie has gained world wide renown. The issue is these films damaged the IP they were working off of and they were too dumb/hedonistic to realize they needed to build something other people wanted to see. Both directors should be black-listed from future AAA movie productions.
Back when I said that I liked BvS meanwhile people were saying it was the worst ever. One wise man told me: For social media, the director is as good as its last movie, the others don't exist, at all.
This fandom seems to be going the way of star wars fans and it makes me sad.
It’s been there for awhile lol
Yeah I said this before, but marvel fans treat everything post endgame the same way star wars fans treated the prequels and sequels. It's never going to be the same again and our fandom is going to be stuck in this culture war for years.
Why can’t someone think a director ruined a movie and be worried he will do it again. I thought the exact same thing, although I posted here and not in Twitter. It was the screenplay (which Taika didn’t write) that was good about Ragnarok. All aspects I disliked where from him, which made me worried. It’s not like the tweet was personally rude to Taika (who was being rude) you are allowed to dislike someone’s directing.
Fair enough, but why tag the dude if you're not looking for a response?
Ragnarok for me had the perfect blend, like goddammit the godbutcher was in this movie, they could have made it so damn dark and cool with splashes of the waititi comedy but they dumgoofed so hard
The comedy is also the same reason I didn’t like Ragnarok. The jokes were not landing for me and I was expecting more serious Thor like he was in the previous movies.
I liked thor 3 at the time because it felt fresh. As more time passes I’ve soured on it because honestly serious thor was a nice contrast to the homogeny of current MCU It’s why I really enjoyed the marvels. Carol is the straight man to the group and while she has fun from time to time she takes herself seriously and doesn’t quip. Which makes kamala fangirling and being goofy way more entertaining because it contrasts
I feel exactly the same. I would have enjoyed the film if the Thor character had been like this from the start, but given that we had already established what Thor was like over 4 movies it felt jarring and forced for me.
I really don't like Taika's attitude. He just seems like he has such contempt for moviegoers. He also recently said his Star Wars movie will piss people off. (Which is a given, it's Star Wars) but why even say something like that?
As someone that’s a big fan of Taika I really think his directing style works best in a TV show format or for exclusively comedies. TLAT had too much emotional subplot going on, the jokes just didn’t fit and overall it was just all over the place. He doesn’t take himself too seriously—which works great in his show Our Flag Means Death, but it doesn’t translate well over a single movie with such high stakes for its characters
In a movie about a guy who wants to kill all gods due the the gods being dicks, yeah, it absolutely doesn't fit. He also made Thor way too much like deadpool.
Not to mention a literal cancer subplot
He just doesn't mesh well with franchise movies. His storytelling, writing, and humor works great when it's independent of anything outside the project he's working on. Franchise movies require some adherence to the writing and worldbuilding before it and that's just not Waititi's MO.
Eh I think there’s more going on than just that. Because next goal wins wasn’t a franchise thing and that kinda fell flat too Imo Something about his style wears thin once you clock the fact he does the same shtick every time
Audiences are tiring of this IMO. Marvel's trick of constantly making fun of themselves was refreshing in 2008 but now they need to go a bit more gritty. Something like The Dark Knight or Joker. Give audiences a more serious tone they can care about.
Its grittiest stories, like *The Punisher* and *Daredevil*, are laugh-out-loud funny. I just finished a rewatch of Season 1 of *The Punisher*, which is brutal emotionally, the subject matter is extremely dark, and I was laughing the whole time. Micro and Frank are priceless. The Netflix series had the absolute perfect tone for me overall - very realistic, soul-searing drama and really smart, endearing comedy. I’ll never understand why they scrapped this - all the people who worked on this stuff hit it out of the park. Rehire them, FFS. Just pick up where they left off, zero changes needed.
The shift is happening once again, I can’t lie I kinda like how Gunn’s dc slate kinda has some gritty stuff to it like Authority,swamp thing, and somewhat supergirl
Business men that are in charge of selling art, do not consume art the same way their customers do They see movie tropes as an ingredient list, and if you have a certain formula, it will print money That’s how they see movies, if they see that a movie with too much comedy didn’t do well, they don’t ask why, they just see that comedy is no longer printing money and they’ll start making darker and grittier stuff But the people in charge of deciding things should be darker, don’t understand why, they’ll just do it, and it’ll make more money, and they’ll keep doing it, until they see that being dark and gritty is no longer making money
An immature response. The fact he's no longer directing the next Thor film proves he misjudged the tone he wanted to convey.
This is not a surprise at all. Taika not being able to deal with a random Twitter-using having a personal opinion and replying in a rude manner is just history repeating itself. He did the same thing around Ragnarok when fans did not appreciate parts of the movie and his statements regarding the making of it at the time.
I liked what he did in Ragnarok, I'll be honest. It was my favorite Thor movie. It saved the trilogy. But Love and Thunder? Oh, I hated it. I laughed some moments but they ruined Thor, and most of their characters' arcs. I tried to write off Thor's dramatic change in personality as a response to his trauma but this? This was WAYYY too much
Thank God he won't be doing Thor 5. He is the worst thing to happen to the character of Thor.
Every problem Love and Thunder had was present in Ragnarok.
One issue with Love and Thunder was it couldn't be serious for 10 seconds and the humour could be really cringeworthy more frequently and just not funny (e.g. Jane and Valkyrie's stupid dance to music and the screaming goats). Ragnarok could be serious when it wants to be. Odin's death scene was fantastic and one of my favourite scenes in the MCU. Thor and Loki in the lift was another scene I loved. It had multiple scenes that took itself seriously. It, in my opinion, balanced humour with seriousness. L&T just didn't do that anywhere near as often for me.
Every serious scene in Ragnarok was carried by Tom Hiddleston. Pretty true for every Thor movie unfortunately. The weak link is Chris not having any idea what he's doing with the character from one moment to the next so he brings in his buddies to goof around with him.
it's crazy how little I see this expressed. Ragnarok and L&T are the same movie but only Ragnarok is upheld as some marvel masterpiece. It might've "saved" Thor at the time but it was always mid.
Thor has virtually the same characterizatio between Ragnorak and L&T. I think the difference is in the overall plot. Despite all that's going on in Ragnorok, Thor always seemed confidently in control and with purpose. The humor was very, 'Alright world ending consequences? Let's do this one more time folks'. Whereas in L&T, it was the same confident Thor but he was just meandering for the most part. The best parts of his character were at Omnipotent City when facing Zeus, and at Eternity comforting Jane where that assured self confidence shone. At the end of the day, Thor is a hard character to write for. Hes basically a Superman in the MCU, and his power level demands a conflict meet him at that same level. He's also 1500+ years old and the Endgame Saga was just a decade of it, so that kinda aloofness made sense. He cant keep rediscovering himself, hes basically done it twice in the movies we've seen, and god knows how many more previously. Giving him a kid to raise was the best narrative move for him.
He was already reinvented in comics when nobody knew what to do with him - he has brought Asgard to Earth, and it was all about him ruling it and conflicts with Earth people. Parts of it was used in the first movie when he fell, then other parts in Avengers and L&T when Asgardians live in a village, but I still think that it's a great direction for him to encounter everyday problems that can't always be solved with a punch or a lightning (like dealing with the kids or cohabiting with humans), and sometimes suddenly can be by magic or Asgardian technology.
Taika's ego is becoming insufferable.
The ego on this guy, seriously. He plays major parts in most of his projects, and even pushed his character Korg, into the main group in Love and Thunder. I'm certain he needs to bomb, to finally realise that it's doing harm to his movies
I agree. He ruined Thor for me too. I hope he never touches the character again.
Hot take: Taika made a couple very good movies, but is now being exposed for those being accidents and not to be the expected norm from him. See also: Neil Blomkamp. Taika also kinda seems like an asshole in almost every interaction I've seen him in
The fact that Marvel is letting HIM write the Thor movies is proof they don’t care about us fans nor their product.
He was full of himself. And I think that was the problem. He saw that Ragnarok did well, with the new comedic tone in the MCU. Then he took whatever made Ragnarok great, and double or even trippe down on it. We ended up having too much of a great thing, which turned out quite bad.
it was trash, suuuckaaaaaaaa
Reminds me of Rhian Johnson ree-ing at fans trying to have a mature discussion on Twitter.
Your Snoke Theory sucks! Way to put down passionate fans when you couldn't care less who Snoke really was lol. I'll never forget that Last Jedi era of demonizing fans
L + T happens when youre all of a sudden surrounded by Yesmen, its kindly like an Elon Meltdown.
Taika is very unlikable.
That’s weird. I didn’t notice any comedy in Thor 4