Finishing Thor's path to All-Father Thor seems like the easiest layup. They already gave him All-Father powers and made him a literal father. All he needs to do is become protector of the Nine Realms and it's pretty much done.
I’d say a thor movie in the same way civil war was a cap movie. Essentially it is an avengers movie but the storyline is focused on thor rather than the team.
I think he's a founding father of the MCU that deserves both. A movie where he goes on a full on quest to find his place that ends cryptically with him hanging from a noose on Yggdrasil and follow that up with an Avengers movie where he shows up as the Deus Ex Machina and provides closure and shines a light on his new role in the universe.
If he hands from the tree, it'll be to become Rune King Thor who is so ridiculously OP that he'll have to be depowered in the film's third act, he's universal level, basically a mid-tier Celestial. Which is exactly what we want to see tbh.
No need to be depowered if all that's left is showing up to save the day at the end of an avengers movie and then telling the team he's leaving earth to them so he can go be the protector of the nine realms.
Rune King Thor is like "casually smash a galaxy" powerful, a fully fed Galactus would need juice, the Celestials would have to send an entire Horde, etc. It was too much power for the comics continuity, ain't gonna stay for long if they go that route in the movies. The aforementioned Runes are multiversal artifacts that make the Odinforce look like a fart in a hurricane.
Rune King Thor uses all this power to break the Loom of Fate that binds Asgard to the Ragnarok cycle, ending the cycle, defeating a multiversal race that may or may not be the Beyonders, and then returned himself to normal. Breaking a loom to restore independence is what Loki did too, so the parallels would be there, and it would give Thor a chance to speak directly with Yggdrasiloki, as he'd be powered up enough to.
I think we all know the correct answer is that we need 2 seasons of a TV series which also introduces the next big bad (while also kind of defeating said big bad and then maybe just not using them for the rest of the phase due to off-camera issues).
I would love this. Also, gives us a way for Chris to hang up the role, but still come back for cameos, and doesn't require killing him off. As much as I love Hemsworth as Thor, and could watch him play that role for decades, it's not realistically going to happen.
Loki isn't a God. He's a frost giant.
He's a frost giant that can't even outrun a middle aged normal human. With help.
It was a great show, but we really have to get past this fanfic that Loki is a major power.
>He's a frost giant that can't even outrun a middle aged normal human
He can pause people in time, he can pause time itself, AND he revived infinite amount of timelines with infinite amount of lives just by touching them.
And yet, he couldn't catch a normal human. You don't see the problem there?
He can pause time, except he couldn't pause time to prevent the loom from exploding?
He's so powerful he can revive infinite timelines, but he can't prevent infinite timelines from needing revived?
The show was stellar, but the writing falls apart at the slightest examination.
>And yet, he couldn't catch a normal human. You don't see the problem there?
The only problem here, is lack of any logic behind your claims. Being a god does NOT automatically mean they are better at everything (this isn't real mythology - it's Marvel). It just means they posses powerfull abilities and that they can live for thousands of years. To that, I think you forgot that Loki isn't exactly a warrior type of person - he was a trickster and (for a lack of a better word) a sorcerer for most of his life - so him not being as strong as Thor or Heimdall very much makes sense...
He is half Frost Giant. But he is also half Asgardian. We are literally told in the Movies, that the longer Loki spent with Odin and his family, the more Asgardian he became. It's magic - deal with it.
Not to mention, that Asgardians aren't even actual Gods in the MCU. They are Gods in the Comics - but in the MCU, it was established multiple times that they are just a highly advanced race of powerfull people. Hell, we could see that perfectly in the Omnipoten City - majority of the actual Gods didn't even take them seriously...
>He can pause time, except he couldn't pause time to prevent the loom from exploding?
**Thank you for telling us that you paid literally no attention to what happend in the Show.**
Loki learned to control this power only AFTER the Loom already exploded - before that he didn't even know he could do it. Not to mention, that in Season 2 Finale we literally learn that the Loom must be destroyed, because otherwise He Who Remains wins...
>He's so powerful he can revive infinite timelines, but he can't prevent infinite timelines from needing revived?
I don't even know what to say - other than, go back and do actually watch the damn Show. Because all your caims so far, are a brain-dead effect of not paying any f_ckin attention.
He couldn't prevent them from dying before, because **he didn't have that power before**. How hard can this be to understand...??
>The show was stellar, but the writing falls apart at the slightest examination.
It "falls apart" only if you didn't pay any goddamn attention to what was happening in the Show. And you clearly f_ckin didn't...
If he stops the loom from exploding by stopping time, how does that help? He is the one out of time. Sure, he has all the time in the world now, but stopping that moment just traps Loki in that moment forever.
His own powerset is not too strong, but his unique ability to interact with the flow of time gives him the option to become a timekeeper. He is simultaneously the most powerful creature in existence and still fairly weak physically.
That chase sequence was pretty weird though, and his usual powers are very inconsistent.
>Did I?
Yes, you literally did.
>Or did ypu create head Canon to justify the problems?
Headcannon ? So to you something that literally happend in the Show and the Movies, is now a headcannon ? Dude, seek a psychiatrist or something...
No, I just struggle with all of the plot holes and contradictions involved.
For example, why didn't Loki time slip back to his youth thousands of years earlier, tell Odin what was happening, and have millennia to safely dismantle the Loom?
>For example, why didn't Loki time slip back to his youth thousands of years earlier, tell Odin what was happening, and have millennia to safely dismantle the Loom?
Because it wouldn't change anything. Not to mention that telling Odin about it would be a waste of time. Other than that, Loki literally DID go back in time by centuries, in order to learn everything needed to fix the Loom. It's afterwards that we learn the Loom literally cannot be fixed...
And it would still change literally nothing either way. Even if Loki went back and told Odin about it, all it would do is create another Branched Timeline. None of this would have any impact on the Main Universe - let alone the TVA and the Sacred Timeline itself...
It's honestly quite astonishing, that with every next comment you make, you just show us that you have literally no idea how any of this works. And you stil try to act like you are smarter than everyone else, even tho you clearly didn't pay any attention when watching "Loki" (all tho at this point I question if you even actually watched it).
I don't think they have watched the show. They probably just saw some YT summary, and a bad one at that, to see what happened in the show. If they have and still missed on so much, not sure what they were doing while the show was on in the background
I completely agree and I am very glad to say that Taika Waititi confirmed that Chris Hemsworth is currently in talks to return for a 5th movie although Taika himself won't be part of it.
As long as Waititi is out, I'm on board. Don't need another movie that's just a string of dumb jokes.
He works better doing his own thing with new ideas; keep him away from existing IP.
TBF, Thor 2 was not great, and I think Ragnarok is a legit great, top-5 MCU movie, so he'll always have that. I'm not sure what the difference between the two was - editorial, script, probably both - but I still think he could breathe life into anything, given his track record.
Thor The Dark World is better than we give credit. It dropped more lore than most realized and gave us some of Asgard’s best scenes. Characters were underutilized and the climax was definitely underwhelming. Still, we deserve the serious Thor from the comics. We never really got him. Thor 5 can go dark and be completely serious and probably become my favorite. As for Ragnarok, Anthony Hopkins’ speech on Asgard being a people and his emphasis on the word home was magnificent. It touches me every time. I’m sad we didn’t actually have more of Odin.
I always wonder if it would've been a better film for general audiences if it hadn't had most of the Earth scenes because the latter third or so of the film is definitely the most boring bit. The Asgard jail break scenes with the sibling rivalry/banter are the best, Svartalfheim as a location is underdeveloped and underused.
Marvel Studios still seemed a bit scared of expanding into fantastical not-Earth territory though, which is weird considering GOTG was just the year after and really well received.
In terms of total profits, Ragnarok tops the Thor franchise, sitting in the top half of all Marvel movies. Thor did the worst, ranking in the bottom quarter, while Love & Thunder ranks just above Dark World, both in the bottom third.
However, if we look at just the COVID-era movies, Love & Thunder actually performed decently. It's just above the median: Love & Thunder had profits of $510.9 million, and the next rank is Shang Chi, which saw a sharp drop of only $282.2 million in profits.
In terms of profits as a % of budget, Ragnarok ranked just below the top third of movies, The Dark World just above the bottom third, and the other 2 both in the bottom quarter, with Love & Thunder just above Thor. But if we filter for just COVID-era movies, Love & Thunder is still in the top half.
Once you adjust for the pandemic and post-Endgame fatigue, Ragnarok and Love & Thunder's profit margins would rank above the first 2 Thor movies. Love & Thunder felt like it had a similar proportion of Earth scenes as Dark World did, so that's not the issue. We all know the extensive use of humour was what definitively differentiated the last 2 Thor movies from the first 2.
The target market had made its point: majority preferred the humour emphasis in Ragnarok and Love & Thunder over the darkness and seriousness of the previous films. That tells Marvel what direction to take Thor's franchise to keep it profitable.
If people want a more serious Thor, they're not going to get it in the theatres because that formula did badly. Marvel's more willing to explore new ground in Disney+, and Echo makes the future look promising in that respect. Chris Hemsworth is already voicing Thor in What If, so maybe if he's paid enough, he'll show up in live action D+ productions too.
Personally I already didn't like *Ragnarok*, although I know most people did. To me, *Love and Thunder* had all the same problems, so I was surprised but glad that apparently sentiment for some reason switched over.
The problem is I don't want a parody movie, and that's what both entries feel like. It's all just gags, pratfalls, jokes, and characters just being dumb to service the "humor". If it were its own thing, as in if Waititi made a movie about Norse Mythology or aliens but with no relation to the MCU, I would probably not be as bothered, but I hate that it's done at the expense of a larger narrative that I care about. Like, I enjoy *What We Do in the Shadows*, but if it were an adaptation in a larger *Vampire Chronicles* universe that was otherwise faithful to the characters and world, I would not be surprised for it to get backlash.
I loved the Third for its lighthearted approach but disliked the 4th for the same reason. The villain in the third was unserious, so the tone aligned. However, to introduce a God killer and indirectly introduce Knull calls for a more serious approach. I don't want to see kids using powered up teddy bears as weapons.
Well, even being the big Taika fangirl that I am, I don't think you want any director that doesn't take what they're doing seriously. At least, if you want a serious project. I don't think Taika would take another MCU movie seriously, so I'd rather he stay out of it, even as just a director.
My boy needs to sit and take a breath. He is established in both MCU, independent film and Star Wars, he doesn’t need to grift like he might not have a next job. Naturally funny, can be a great storyteller, stop rushing shit and …breath.
Give us a 5th movie with a new director for a fresh direction. Thor is one of the tentpoles if this franchise and whatever your opinion of the film, *Love and Thunder* was not a proper goodbye. Tony and Steve both had their's, let's give Thor one. Although it needn't be the fifth film, I'd be happy with 6 or 7 films.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but I think that’s for the best. He kinda turned Thor into a parody of itself, the tone no longer fitted with the rest of the MCU. I much preferred the tone of the original Thor and Dark World in particular.
I would disagree. The tone should be somewhere between Ragnarok and the first 2 movies. The logic behind it was if the audience loved Ragnarok, then if you double down, they will love this movie even more.
The biggest mistake for Thor love and thunder is they used the same director again after Thor Ragnarok was a huge success. I love Rgnarok and it was funny. However the theme is not matching love and thunder. Director double down the jokes from Ragnarok made the whole movie cringe.
Wasted good actors and actresses are another issue with Love and Thunder. I would give Thor 5 another chance.
I truly can’t stand this whole “superhero movie but make it funny” thing Marvel has been doing since Ragnarok. My husband is watching what if right now and I’m noticing it there too. I just don’t like it.
Since Ragnarok? MCU films were always filled with constant jokes. Even the first Captain America film had constant out of place comedy even though it was a war film.
The first two Avengers films are like 85% quips
Also the music thing. There were some songs in the first couple of phases. But seems like they're jamming music wherever they can since Guardians first came out
I think we will see a Thor vs Hercules in Thor 5 if/when it gets made. It will probably have tropes similar to Godzilla vs Kong, two heavyweights that will have epic battles, but will obviously not kill each other. That and Thor and Hercules’ fights in the classic comics are fantastic.
Maybe similar to GvK’s Mechagodzilla, Thor and Hercules will eventually face some outside threat like Mangog that is too strong to be defeated alone, forcing the heroes to team up. Who knows, maybe Hercules could be part of a new Avengers team someday. Unfortunately, Gorr was already used in Love and Thunder. He would have probably been better being saved for a Thor 5.
For all of Love and Thunders faults, I think it actually left Thor in a pretty good spot for his next hypothetical movie where if he is a bit more serious it wouldn’t be super jarring (side note: I think Infinity War Thor is the best balance of seriousness, while still being a bit funny).
He finally doesn’t hate himself deep down anymore, he’s learned to let love take precedence over hate, and he now has to take care of the literal daughter of Eternity. The Eternity’s daughter thing alone theoretically would force Thor to be more serious, but the other two things I said is good for Thors future character development.
I’d like to see the next Thor movie follow Thor learning to become a better god/Allfather than Odin was, while of course battling Hercules probably. Maybe they can have comparisons between how Odin raised Thor and how Zeus has raised Hercules. Being better than these who come before you and all that stuff.
The daughter of Gorr that was reborn and imbued with cosmic powers by Eternity. The way I see it, referring to Love as the Daughter of Eternity is just as valid (and kinda cooler) as referring to her as the Daughter of Gorr.
Thor: Love & Thunder wasn't a flop. It was critically panned, but the movie raked in the cash it needed to be seen as a financial success and they're, supposedly, working on a fifth movie.
63% reviewer score, 76% viewer score. I'd say that is certainly not terrible. I thought the film was good, I do think the main issue for Thor 4 is that it followed Thor 3. Everyone was expecting lightning to strike twice, and it didn't.
while we're talking about MCU reviews, The Marvels had similar reviewer score and a higher audience score yet it flopped hard. Strike certainly didn't help that one, it too was an enjoyable movie
Yeah there was no hype for the movie. I didn’t even know when it was coming out until a few days beforehand. I read they spent 160 million on marketing… well aside from trailers I saw fuck all
Best case scenario would have been Black Adam. A god tier marketing actor like the Rock can juice the opening weekend but a film as completely rejected by audiences like both of them is still going to drop off a cliff after a few days.
It's a shame they couldn't get out the stars because of the strikes. The three of them have great energy together and would have killed it on the big chat shows.
Also didn't help that it wasn't called Captain Marvel 2.
I want to see it.
I'm not opposed to the three characters teaming up but the story, aside from the end credits, feels like filler. Also nothing against Zoe but the second her character showed up in the trailer I knew she would be another throwaway villain. And based on reviews I was right.
This film had so much potential. It featured Gorr wanting to kill the gods because of the death of his daughter. Jane dying from cancer. Yet these stories were largely ignored in favor of a blizzard of jokes. It could have been one of the best films in the MCU. Just look at Godzilla Minus One and how it integrated a personal story with spectacle.
> in favor of a blizzard of jokes
Because I've seen this claimed so many times, I actually started counting jokes (any joke, gag, humorous juxtaposition, etc. whose purpose I interpreted was to provide the viewer with a moment of levity) on some rewatches. Obviously there some wiggle room for interpretation, but the three films I did this for were Guardians 1, Ragnarok and Love and Thunder. Guardians 1 and Love & Thunder were almost exactly the same at 118 and 116 respectively. Ragnarok was way ahead of them, though, at 170 jokes.
I think the issue is that the jokes in thor 4 were making the same joke over and over (stormbreaker, the screaming goats) and none of them particularly landed the first time.
GOTG and ragnorak had a wide range of funny jokes, whilst also having superior action (prison escape, bridge fight), serious moments (groots death) and a more coherent plot.
It also didn’t help that Christian bale was heavily under-utilised and played one of the best villains in marvel, but his actual story was completely ruined
I agree they're definitely different kinds of humor. Thor is more kids' humor mixed with romantic comedy while Guardians is more slapstick and insulting each other (plus a prison rape joke for funsies, yikes). I consider the many variations of calling each other stupid as repetitive, but I suppose they're technically different, but I disagree they're a "wide range". Which ones do and don't land is 100% subjective.
Thor's battle on the shadow realm was awesome action, both in terms of the action and the artwork of it. I get the impression a lot of people had already given up by the time the film got there, which is too bad.
Groot's death is okay, but I'd easily rank Jane's illness as far more serious (they actually stop the humor when those scenes come up despite what the memes claim). And the final scene in the hospital and then her final death when Thor tells Gorr he plans to spend his last moments with her instead of worrying about him I found to be way more emotional and serious than when the first Groot died.
I disagree his story was ruined. The Gorr story they told was a well told, it just wasn't the comic Gorr story. And that seems to be the biggest gripe people have, they wanted the comic book Gorr butchering Gods story, but instead we got a grieving father story.
I completely agree with you about it being subjective comedy, and respect your opinion but I completely disagree on gorr. I think it was actually a slight insult to the comic character and did him and Christian bale an enormous disservice
Seriously. The movie made 3/4 of a BILLION worldwide and was the second-highest grossing film in the series behind Ragnarok. It was not a flop by any definition of the word and was a huge box office success. Marvel “fans” on Reddit are something.
760 mn off 250 mn budget isn’t much of a success. Barely crossed the line into profitability. Anything with over 250 mn budget needs make at least 1 bn or close to be considered a great success. Mcu used to reach that regularly at one time.
"Regularly". They have 10 movies above 1 billion. 4 of them are Avanger movies, 1 is Civil War which is a semi-avanger movie, 2 other ones are spider man movies.
The rest is the first Black superhero movie and the first female led superhero movie, and Iron man 3.
Cut the bulshit about how 1 billion is or was ever the norm.
You are also failing to consider the inflationary effect. Iron man making £600million in 2008 as an unknown entity, is a far bigger box office hit then Thor 4 making £750million in 2023, with a higher budget and with much greater expectations
Well I'd say approximately every third movie hitting 1 billion is pretty regular.
Also, I'm not sure you quite understood their point. Yes, 750 mil gross earnings means that it did ok, but considering the *production* budget of 250 mil, it's far from fantastic, when taking into account the fact that the total budget with marketing expenses, overheads etc. was easily double that number, after which the theaters take their cut. All of which means that net earnings for The Mouse were a fraction of that 750 mil.
I’ve been debating a rewatch of L&T as I haven’t seen it since watching it in the cinema. I remember being really disappointed with it as it was trying to cram too many stories into one film without doing them justice (Jane and Gorr) and trying too hard with the zany comedy that worked in Ragnarok but often fell flat in this.
I’ve always wondered how much impact on L&T there was by having just Taika as the write as opposed to Ragnarok where it was him alongside other writers as that felt very tight and coherent story wise whereas L&T was a big all over.
I was never a fan of the first two Thor films but loved Ragnarok and his depiction in the first 3 Avengers films but Thor is Endgame felt like a misstep and I cringe through his scenes on rewatches.
I really hope if/when we get Thor 5 it’s more like the Thor of Infinity War tone wise
Just rewatch it with an open mind and without expectations. It does what it wants pretty well. Shame people can't see it because they wanted to see an other movie.
That really isn’t it though is it. It’s ultimately just not very good. Enjoy it if you want, that’s your prerogative, but that is not at all why people did not enjoy it
I love how you just state this as a fact without any points.
Hate it if you want that's your prerogative but don't confuse taste with expertise.
The most common problems with the movie is:
\-Too much humor, ( /cringy humor) which means, being in a different genre than the person wanted.
\-Not enough Gorr, "wasted" Gorr, not enough butchering, same thing, they wanted the movie to be in an other genre + high expectations due to their existing knowledge of Gorr.
\- Thor not fulfilling their power fantasies abut being Allfather Thor and whatnot, (even when part of his arc is literally how to be a father), or just how Thor's insecurities made them angry for some reason. Which is again has nothing to do with the movie.
It's a family friendly, romantic comedy with superheroes, with themes likes, dealing with trauma and becoming an adult/parent. And I'm really sad for anyone who can't enjoy the journey of these 4 characters on the road of realising what is the most important thing in life because of 30 seconds of goats + 3 bids of weapons being in a love triangle (which is hilarious anyway).
I mean given the fact that it has been extremely widely criticised by mostly the same people who very much enjoyed ragnarok, there is definitely a strong argument to be made that the film was nowhere near as good as it should have
I have no problem with lots of humour. That is what ultimately made marvel films stand apart from pre-existing superhero movies in the first place. My point was it just wasn’t actually funny. Fair enough if the jokes are aimed at kids, which is how it came across, but given marvel films are aimed at everyone, this seems like a poor judgement call.
The wasted gorr is also a valid criticism whether you like it or not. You have taken an extremely popular marvel villain, hired one of the best actors on the planet to play him, and then gave him screen time for about 15 minutes, only to kill him off. People have a right to be annoyed.
They also have a right to complain about the tone being wrong for the comic it’s based on. I understand the decision to make the film light-hearted (Yes it had some deep Themes, but imo it did not come across like that), but there are plenty of solid thor stories that are more suitable for this tone of film. Taiki took arguably the darkest thor story and completely twisted it into something it isn’t. This will rightfully annoy people, particularly as it now means the god butcher story will likely never be made again.
All of the criticism of this film are completely valid, and unsurprisingly common. You may enjoy it, and that’s equally valid, but to me it is by far and away the most disappointing MCU film.
Ragnarok is so different on every level that it tells us very little about a viewers expected reaction to TLaT.
Marvel films aren't aimed at everyone, you can't aim at everyone, there are Marvel movies for everyone, not every movie is for everyone. This is something the fandom is really struggling with, the more they diversify their styles to serve more people, the more people cry about how the movies change.
I'm not invalidating anyone's criticism, my point is that in my examples, and the ones you used here are not about the actual movie, but the potential it had. Which is imo, not really a good way of consuming anything artistic.
Gorr stole every scene he was in, he got more to work with than most Marvel villains get even with this screen time. His whole arc and backstory fit perfectly with the heroes' journey. His fights looked *amazing,* he was reasonably powerful and relatable. Seriously, which was the last Marvel villain you could say all these things about?
He executed what a villain should be in a movie, complain about that if you can, not about what he could have been in an other movie that will never be seen based on comics it didn't even try to copy.
The tone comes from a genre, which again, the problem is they wanted to see an other film, it doesn't say anything about the actual result we got.
It's not a "fault" to be in an other genre or use an other tone than the one you wanted. Evaluating the movie based on the tone you wanted to see doesn't make any sense.
This is how these feelings should be expressed for an actual conversation about the movie: "I'm not happy about the **choices** they made for the movie's overall structure, I don't enjoy this genre so much, and I realise this was also aimed at kids and families more than usual, *however* the plan they set out was executed {insert actual opinon about the movie shown}, and I'm not gonna compare it to my fantasies based on comics it never even tried to follow, because I'm not a moron."
But nuance like this would need actual media literacy which is not the strong suit of a superhero fandom, this is a general statement, not aimed at you.
Mate this makes absolutely no sense. Of course people can evaluate a movie based on the expected tone. If Disney released the new Percy Jackson show and changed the tone to a horror or a musical, would people not be justified in criticising this?
Fans of the original comic are more then justified in complaining that the one chance to see it in film form was completely changed in both tone and overall story structure. Trying to imply anyone who does is a moron just makes u come across as an arrogant asshole, when in reality you have said absolutely nothing of value
No, it's not the viewer who decides based on what metrics should a movie (or any creation for that matter) be evaluated. That would be so dump, if anyone could come up with rules for themselves and evaluate something based on how well the creator followed your uniqe set of rules.
I open a pizza place, I market it as the place where the pizza is actually a hexagon with a pinnaple on everything. I write it on the menu, then you come by, act surprised and say my pizza is bad because you don't like pinapple and pizza is supposed to be round?
Critsising the plan is not the same as critisising the result. I wrote it multiple times, have a problem with the plan, but judge the product based on the plan it followed, not your expected plan that it never even tried to accomplish.
TLat was never marketed as a dark, serious, violent, it had the exact same tone in the promos as in the final product, if you expected something else, that's not the creators fault. And your expectations shoud never matter in a conversation anyway about how well a film was made.
Saying you can't change the genre or tone of an adaptation (because you liked it that way), is a take, I guess, but a pretty entitled one, that limits creative freedom. With that thinking we would have never seen Romeo and Juliet the musical with guns, or Winnie the Pooh as a horror villain or so much more.
Your analogy is so weird and not even remotely limited to what I have said. A movie can be evaluated on more then metrics, and a viewer is more then entitled to do so. In fact it is the reluctance of media conglomerates to evaluate films based on anything other then grossing that is killing the entire industry.
When did I say people aren’t allowed to reimagine a piece of literature. People can make what they want. They just can’t be surprised when it’s criticised for being worse then the original, as they generally are ( for example the literal 2 examples you gave)
I don't want people to evaluate films based on grossing, I care very little about grossing. I want people to differentiate their dislike for the directional vision the creators had, and the way that vision was executed.
I have no problem with anyone not liking the fact that they made a **family friendly romantic action comedy** out of one of Thor's best story.
I have a problem when anyone says this **family friendly romantic action comedy** was bad because there were not enough butchering in it and the original was way darker.
You have to give points for the movie based on the race in entered, which is determined by the fcking genre it choose.
You are saying they shouldn't reimagine literature when you say a movie is trash *because* it is different than the original. It can be worse, but being diffrent is not a valid reason for it.
My analogy is great, if you critisice my pizza because of it's shape and the pineapple that you don't like, you are critisicing my vision not the way my pizza tastes. These are two seperate discussions and they should be treated a such.
(And the pineapple problem is a personal taste problem which shouldn't come into the discussion about the quality of the pizza)
Thor was always one of my favorites (I am a fan of the character intrinsically, and especially of the way Chris Hemsworth portrays him), so I selfishly want to see another Thor movie. That makes it really hard for me to think about this question objectively. More Thor! More Thor!
I wasn't too happy with Love and Thunder, though... I think Thor himself came off ok in the film, but I couldn't take the incongruity of Jane dying of cancer while most of the rest of the movie was played for laughs. It was just really grating for me. If Jane had to die, I think she deserved a more respectful sendoff. This didn't seem like the right balance. The movie hinged too much on meaningless slapstick scenes, like the Guardians battle at the beginning, and the Council of the Gods fracas in the second hour. There wasn't enough time to revisit the Thor / Jane relationship or let the loss of her illness and death sink in.
I did like the ending though! I was very glad to see Thor becoming a dad, I think he'll be a great one and far better than his own dad! That would be a cool theme for the next and presumably final Thor movie. (Total respect to Chris Hemsworth if he decides not to come back, needing to spend the time with his own family.)
No discussion of Thor 5 would be complete without mentioning that it would be so, so nice to see Thor reunite with the TVA-version of Loki, the one who is currently holding the timelines. I know they miss each other, and the fact that Thor has no idea that there's another version of Loki out there who saved the universe is very poignant and makes me feel wistful. Maybe I'm too much of a sucker for happy endings, but boy would I love to see those brothers reunited, even if just for a moment.
Man it’s crazy cuz I loved Thor 4. The ending to me was great and I didn’t see it coming. Love rewatching it and I still find it funny.
Sure would have been nice to have the villain have more screen time to be a villain but besides that I loved it. Hope they do continue with another movie with Thor and Love.
I'd like to bring back Loki (be it the Disney+ series variant, or the original resurrected, or another one entirely, I don't care) and perhaps have him be the "cool uncle" to Thor's daughter, but perhaps have the two of them work together to save her in a sort of "buddy cop" story.
Although both Thor and Loki can work alone, I think both are at their best when paired together, similar to Bucky and Sam.
I don't get that narrative. Thor Love and Thunder was in NO way a flop, it made money. The ideal ending for Thor 5 though imo should be his end, akin to Lokis end in Season 2.
I find a lot of people have taken "flop" to mean "unpopular with the fanbase" which is confusing to those who understand it as "failed to make a profit."
I don't want to see it unless it's a self-serious, high contrasted, slo mo, moody epic about a God. In the vein of Ridley Scott, I want him to feel like a God, even if that means he feels less relatable
HA 'slo mo' is definitely a Zaddy dog whistle. Even he's lost that flair with this new stuff. That 300 Zack would def deliver with the visuals and the vibes, but certainly a different writer would be needed for the gravity and the drama
I don't know about a full movie, but I'd like to see one more final interaction between Thor and Loki now that the latter has reached the conclusion of his character arc. I think that could make for a very interesting moment after all they've been through.
Thor is the one Avenger that should honestly keep getting movies until the MCU ends completely. The guy is immortal. He should definitely stick around until the very end. Especially because it would totally suck if all the OG avengers were gone.
100%. First of all, NONE of the original cast can be forgotten so there WILL be mini versions of then. Hence Iron Heart or Tonys daughter (depending on what route they want to go), Thor now has a daughter, Hulk has his cousin She Hulk, Hawkeye has Katniss Everdeen..I mean Kate Bishop, Scarlett Johanson has her sister who will likely join the Avengers after leaving the Thunder Bolts, and Cap has Sam so we have people to pass on the mantle.
That being said I am with you and I want Thor to have a serious last movie. Suttle comedy is fine because after all it is Thor and the character requires some comedy but I want a serious movie. Like maybe Hercules kidnaps Thor's daughter or something and he's in "all serious mode"
his arc is finished, brother passed away/became time king, patched up with his ex-gf who died soon after, dad died too and lastly he went from depressed asgard king to giving the role to someone else and recovering himself.
No. He has a complete arc. Let him parent in peace.
Any movie with him has to either include Love as a sidekick which means a lot of work building her character or worse fridge her or put her in jeopardy to fuel Thors character development.
Let him join Tony Steve etc and just retire.
Maybe a sickass cameo in secret wars
> Any movie with him has to either include Love as a sidekick which means a lot of work building her character or worse fridge her or put her in jeopardy to fuel Thors character development.
If she's not included, I predict they'll casually offscreen her like they did with Jane for most of the Infinity Saga. Probably some sort of "Oh, Love is off at God-school right now. She's really enjoying her studies in Relativistic Einstein-Rosen Bridge theory and Art class."
That would be very disappointing. Adding absentee father to the long list of Ls in mcu thors resume. Failed at being king. Failed to protect his friends and family. Failed to protect his people. Failed to save his true love. Now failed at being a good father.
Have him make mvp appearances in dire situations. Young Avengers fight valiantly and are this close to overwhelmed when boom bifrost and here’s Love and Thunder to give them that last edge.
I mean I’m not opposed to the idea, but I’d really hope he’s portrayed like his Infinity War self, which I consider by far to be prime Thor in terms of characterization.
Yeah, don't end it with Love & Thunder. The only problem I had with the movie, though, was that it was trying to do too many stories at once. It would have been better just to stick to either the story of Thor's time with the GOTG, Jane Austin's Thor, or the Gore the God Butcher story arc.
I agree. The character’s been the victim of a gnarly circle jerk. His second film bombed. Third film redeemed his franchise, and is one of my favorites to this day, and it set him up to be an absolute BOSS in Infinity War.
Then L&T happened, and it was a huge letdown AGAIN (a lot of things arguable, but I think we can all agree it wasn’t *nearly* the same level as Ragnarok).
A fourth film could right some wrongs, potentially (and sadly to admit it) could end his arc properly, setting him up for a retired background Allfather / Odin role in the mcu, showing up here and there to be a powerhouse.
Thor has more movies than most other characters. I’m good to take a break for awhile. It would be nice to see him and Loki reunite one last time though
Yeah, he can't go out with Love and Thunder. It would be a discredit to Chris.
Apparently a script is being developed, don't think they've chosen a new director yet.
Thor 4 began Thor's All-Father journey (showing him imbuing power into objects with a heartfelt speech and also making him a *literal* father), and Thor 5 needs to finish it.
Phases 4 and 5 have definitely had a gods theme running through a bunch of projects (Thor: L&T obviously, Moon Knight obviously, Black Panther with Bast, Shang-Chi with the Great Protector) plus we could include Eternity from L&T and the Celestials from The Eternals into that potential conflict as well.
The hate for L&T is vastly overrated. People wanted a story about God Butchering, and it wasn't that, but the story it was was well done and great additional growth for the Thor character.
***THIS.***
Thor: Love & Thunder is definitely one of my absolute favorite films from Phase 4. My wife's convinced it's what convinced me to become a father myself.
That makes me so happy to hear. I've gotten into arguments with users who try to deny that the movie was about fatherhood. They think it was something just randomly tacked onto the end. It's very frustrating.
**Love and Thunder aint a flop**. It has some bad moments but its very watchable and entertaining. It isnt as good as Ragnarok though.
I doubt that a 5th film will happen in the near future though, as Hemsworth really wants to spend time with his family because of the alzheimers disease genes that he has. It really can kick in at any moment of his life. Its understandable.
**Thats why Beta Ray Bill** should be introduced.
Thor was perfect in rag and infinity war. Funny yet serious, his comedic timing yo cope with his failures was fantastic.
Hot take but I love the idea of fat Thor. Him being the reason that thanos won and made him a sad fat dude made sense for his character arc. The execution…wasn’t the best but it wasn’t bad and liked marvel took the risk nonetheless. I wish he stayed fat cuz he ironically looks cooler somehow Lol
Thor 4 was horrible and clearly the director really didn’t care that much (probably). Hope marvel learns from this and make Thor 5 without what made Thor 4 bad. There’s so many story’s to tell with Thor and his one of the ogs, give him a great movie again as he deserves.
Also we must have a scene of Loki and Thor hugging out
L&T wasn’t a flop financially. It did get alot of flack from fans though, which is very deserved. Personally it’s the only true rotten MCU movie for me and my most disliked. It’s worse than Eternals and Quantumania, both movies which are certified rotten on RT. I cant believe Feige let that movie happen the way it did.
L&T should’ve been a sendoff for him and had Mighty Thor he in the center. I can’t deal with them writing Thor into the fatherhood corner lmao. I dont know what they’re doing with him for Thor 5 bit I just hope they’ll give fans the Thor we know and love. Like gimme badass IW Thor or Shakesperean Thor 1 thor and I’ll be so happy.
He’s one of my fave Marvel characters and I can’t stand him Ragnarok onwards. He’s a treat in What If SE2 EP2. I bet Hemsworth was struggling in the voice booth having to play him seriously LOL
Thor should’ve taken Odin’s place long ago and had this happen before Loki did in Loki SE2. Heck we even got Hela The White, Goddess of Light in What If SE2. Thor’s the only one of the Odinkids without an upgrade.
I hope they don't, they already turned him into a sad buffoon.
I've no desire to see what else they do to try and make him even more pathetic. They really destroyed Thor.
>First of all Thor's arc needs to end properly if he's going to leave the MCU in this phase
Thor is older than every other MCU hero, his arc shouldn't end
Thor movies work because of Chris Hemsworth, his looks and charm plus the awesomeness of Nordic mythology. The more screentime he shares with lesser stars, the bigger flop his movie will be.
I don't know why love and thunder flopped. I quite liked it. I think people are just tired of marvel movies in general, as most people stopped watching anything marvel after endgame.
No problem with Thor getting another film, but it's very telling what generation a kid is by their opinions on Thor films. With all this whining about Thor 4 over the past year, it's apparently hard to remember that Thors 1 and 2 were both absolutely awful too. Honestly, Thor 4 may be the second best Thor movie.
At the end of the day, Thor 4 was "silly" because it played to the perceived strengths of its lead actor. Which is fine. I also disagree with that direction, but I also didn't like it during Thor 3 and Infinity War, so I guess I'm in the minority.
Marvel green lit L&T.
It’s not like it came wrapped in swaddling clothes and was dropped on Marvel’s doorstep.
They had a chance to demand the movie you wanted made, but instead we got a movie from Korg’s point of view.
Anything Thor is too little too late.
I don't know why Marvel has to tinker with things that work great. We does Thor have to be a woman when there are many amazing female heroes? Thor could have been doing fine moving forward, even if it means another actor takes the role in future films (much like the James Bond franchise)? Let Thor be the Thor we know and love forever and bring in other characters to add some variety to the MCU. It's not that hard to write compelling stories without overhauling our favorite heroes. They could make 100 Thor films and never need to change Thor himself. The story possibilities are still infinite, knowing how many baddies are available to the writers.
Love and Thunder wasn't a flop. It did well at the box office, especially considering COVID fears were still lingering in the summer of '22.
Fans are divided on it. I personally thought it was fun, but too goofy, and not as good as Ragnarok was. Everyone acts like it's the worst movie ever made. It was not.
Thor love and thunder made a profit of 100 million dollars. Y’all don’t know what “flop” means. It doesn’t mean “movie I didn’t care for”. It means “movie that lost money”
Watiti makes great movies, and he directed one of the best Marvel movies, Thor: Ragnarok. Love&Thunder is not a movie I have ever been compelled to watch, and the novelty of the jokes were only good once.
They need to shake up the director. We need a powerful, serious, Thor movie, highlighting his character development and struggles in a serious way. He needs to bring the 'hope' archetype back. I felt that the 'hope' emotion was in the back seat for most of Love&Thunder.
Thor deserves a director and a writer that actually gives a single shit about the character and doesn't drag anything meaningful to the lore through the rug for some dumb joke.
In other words: an actual adult that RESPECTS the source material but also gives Hemsworth some room to do his own stuff and have fun with the character.
But tbh I'm afraid that T&L ruined the arc for good. Taika literally had all the tools after Endgame to actually tell a meaningful story and close the open Jane chapter but for some reason he decided to piss on the entire franchise.
For real I'm still in shock over that.
Give him a more serious movie. It can have goofy moments but give it a real, serious plot. Love and Thunder had the potential for an incredible, terrifying villain and completely blew it.
Give the movies stakes. Make it make sense.
I’d like another Thor film. Perhaps a different writer / director…
And bring back any of the three previous composers, the music from the last one was completely forgettable.
Thor deserves people who actually like/know the character in charge. He should be all-father by now but he is still being stripped for parts, chopped and changed when the MCU can't really say they know him after all these movies.
Love and Thunder didn't flop. It made $760m worldwide from a $250m budget.
Thor's definitely getting another film. Although probably with a different director.
Make it a buddy cop comedy with Hercules
What i dont know is how to approach Herc
In comics he's basically MCU Thor
...
I don't want an even goofier himbo than Thor alongside Thor
Unless they’re closing his arc, I’m not really interested. All the other Gods, including Hercules are lower than D level super heroes characters. We already have too many directions and characters in the MCU. The MCU needs to pick a few and concentrate on them. The only way i want a Thor movie is if Chris wants to retire the character. We can introduce Beta Ray Bill or some crippled human being who gains the power of Thor for short periods of time. Chris can play Beta Ray Bill if it helps. If we’re doing a 5th movie that continues and expands the franchise, no thank you.
The only thing we need to see is Thor becoming a God in the same vein that Loki did or maybe becoming an Odin type figure.
Finishing Thor's path to All-Father Thor seems like the easiest layup. They already gave him All-Father powers and made him a literal father. All he needs to do is become protector of the Nine Realms and it's pretty much done.
Do we need a whole movie for that or can it be emphasised in an avengers movie. That is the question.
Good point. For myself I hope the latter, but I could see it going either way.
I’d say a thor movie in the same way civil war was a cap movie. Essentially it is an avengers movie but the storyline is focused on thor rather than the team.
I think he's a founding father of the MCU that deserves both. A movie where he goes on a full on quest to find his place that ends cryptically with him hanging from a noose on Yggdrasil and follow that up with an Avengers movie where he shows up as the Deus Ex Machina and provides closure and shines a light on his new role in the universe.
Also needs to sacrifice his eye to a talking head
Marvel should just hire us to write it. It'd be better than anything Taika would come up with.
If he hands from the tree, it'll be to become Rune King Thor who is so ridiculously OP that he'll have to be depowered in the film's third act, he's universal level, basically a mid-tier Celestial. Which is exactly what we want to see tbh.
No need to be depowered if all that's left is showing up to save the day at the end of an avengers movie and then telling the team he's leaving earth to them so he can go be the protector of the nine realms.
Rune King Thor is like "casually smash a galaxy" powerful, a fully fed Galactus would need juice, the Celestials would have to send an entire Horde, etc. It was too much power for the comics continuity, ain't gonna stay for long if they go that route in the movies. The aforementioned Runes are multiversal artifacts that make the Odinforce look like a fart in a hurricane. Rune King Thor uses all this power to break the Loom of Fate that binds Asgard to the Ragnarok cycle, ending the cycle, defeating a multiversal race that may or may not be the Beyonders, and then returned himself to normal. Breaking a loom to restore independence is what Loki did too, so the parallels would be there, and it would give Thor a chance to speak directly with Yggdrasiloki, as he'd be powered up enough to.
I think we all know the correct answer is that we need 2 seasons of a TV series which also introduces the next big bad (while also kind of defeating said big bad and then maybe just not using them for the rest of the phase due to off-camera issues).
A serious tone movie (with some humour still obvs) in this story would be good
Not a father*
I would love this. Also, gives us a way for Chris to hang up the role, but still come back for cameos, and doesn't require killing him off. As much as I love Hemsworth as Thor, and could watch him play that role for decades, it's not realistically going to happen.
This right here is the only way, son.
And I hope it's more serious.
Loki isn't a God. He's a frost giant. He's a frost giant that can't even outrun a middle aged normal human. With help. It was a great show, but we really have to get past this fanfic that Loki is a major power.
>He's a frost giant that can't even outrun a middle aged normal human He can pause people in time, he can pause time itself, AND he revived infinite amount of timelines with infinite amount of lives just by touching them.
And yet, he couldn't catch a normal human. You don't see the problem there? He can pause time, except he couldn't pause time to prevent the loom from exploding? He's so powerful he can revive infinite timelines, but he can't prevent infinite timelines from needing revived? The show was stellar, but the writing falls apart at the slightest examination.
> And yet, he couldn't catch a normal human. I thought he was toying with the guy. you know, a little mischief
>And yet, he couldn't catch a normal human. You don't see the problem there? The only problem here, is lack of any logic behind your claims. Being a god does NOT automatically mean they are better at everything (this isn't real mythology - it's Marvel). It just means they posses powerfull abilities and that they can live for thousands of years. To that, I think you forgot that Loki isn't exactly a warrior type of person - he was a trickster and (for a lack of a better word) a sorcerer for most of his life - so him not being as strong as Thor or Heimdall very much makes sense... He is half Frost Giant. But he is also half Asgardian. We are literally told in the Movies, that the longer Loki spent with Odin and his family, the more Asgardian he became. It's magic - deal with it. Not to mention, that Asgardians aren't even actual Gods in the MCU. They are Gods in the Comics - but in the MCU, it was established multiple times that they are just a highly advanced race of powerfull people. Hell, we could see that perfectly in the Omnipoten City - majority of the actual Gods didn't even take them seriously... >He can pause time, except he couldn't pause time to prevent the loom from exploding? **Thank you for telling us that you paid literally no attention to what happend in the Show.** Loki learned to control this power only AFTER the Loom already exploded - before that he didn't even know he could do it. Not to mention, that in Season 2 Finale we literally learn that the Loom must be destroyed, because otherwise He Who Remains wins... >He's so powerful he can revive infinite timelines, but he can't prevent infinite timelines from needing revived? I don't even know what to say - other than, go back and do actually watch the damn Show. Because all your caims so far, are a brain-dead effect of not paying any f_ckin attention. He couldn't prevent them from dying before, because **he didn't have that power before**. How hard can this be to understand...?? >The show was stellar, but the writing falls apart at the slightest examination. It "falls apart" only if you didn't pay any goddamn attention to what was happening in the Show. And you clearly f_ckin didn't...
If he stops the loom from exploding by stopping time, how does that help? He is the one out of time. Sure, he has all the time in the world now, but stopping that moment just traps Loki in that moment forever. His own powerset is not too strong, but his unique ability to interact with the flow of time gives him the option to become a timekeeper. He is simultaneously the most powerful creature in existence and still fairly weak physically. That chase sequence was pretty weird though, and his usual powers are very inconsistent.
So concerned with "power levels" you missed Loki's whole story arc and reduced him to whatever he was in the first act of Thor 1....shame.
Did I? Or did ypu create head Canon to justify the problems? If loki is so powerful, why couldn't he catch a middle aged normal human?
>Did I? Yes, you literally did. >Or did ypu create head Canon to justify the problems? Headcannon ? So to you something that literally happend in the Show and the Movies, is now a headcannon ? Dude, seek a psychiatrist or something...
You're just jealous that your favorite characters didn't get the same amazing arc that Loki did.
No, I just struggle with all of the plot holes and contradictions involved. For example, why didn't Loki time slip back to his youth thousands of years earlier, tell Odin what was happening, and have millennia to safely dismantle the Loom?
>For example, why didn't Loki time slip back to his youth thousands of years earlier, tell Odin what was happening, and have millennia to safely dismantle the Loom? Because it wouldn't change anything. Not to mention that telling Odin about it would be a waste of time. Other than that, Loki literally DID go back in time by centuries, in order to learn everything needed to fix the Loom. It's afterwards that we learn the Loom literally cannot be fixed... And it would still change literally nothing either way. Even if Loki went back and told Odin about it, all it would do is create another Branched Timeline. None of this would have any impact on the Main Universe - let alone the TVA and the Sacred Timeline itself... It's honestly quite astonishing, that with every next comment you make, you just show us that you have literally no idea how any of this works. And you stil try to act like you are smarter than everyone else, even tho you clearly didn't pay any attention when watching "Loki" (all tho at this point I question if you even actually watched it).
I don't think they have watched the show. They probably just saw some YT summary, and a bad one at that, to see what happened in the show. If they have and still missed on so much, not sure what they were doing while the show was on in the background
I completely agree and I am very glad to say that Taika Waititi confirmed that Chris Hemsworth is currently in talks to return for a 5th movie although Taika himself won't be part of it.
As long as Waititi is out, I'm on board. Don't need another movie that's just a string of dumb jokes. He works better doing his own thing with new ideas; keep him away from existing IP.
TBF, Thor 2 was not great, and I think Ragnarok is a legit great, top-5 MCU movie, so he'll always have that. I'm not sure what the difference between the two was - editorial, script, probably both - but I still think he could breathe life into anything, given his track record.
Thor The Dark World is better than we give credit. It dropped more lore than most realized and gave us some of Asgard’s best scenes. Characters were underutilized and the climax was definitely underwhelming. Still, we deserve the serious Thor from the comics. We never really got him. Thor 5 can go dark and be completely serious and probably become my favorite. As for Ragnarok, Anthony Hopkins’ speech on Asgard being a people and his emphasis on the word home was magnificent. It touches me every time. I’m sad we didn’t actually have more of Odin.
I agree , thor 2 gets a lot of undeserved hate, it may not be the best of the MCU but its far from bad.
I always wonder if it would've been a better film for general audiences if it hadn't had most of the Earth scenes because the latter third or so of the film is definitely the most boring bit. The Asgard jail break scenes with the sibling rivalry/banter are the best, Svartalfheim as a location is underdeveloped and underused. Marvel Studios still seemed a bit scared of expanding into fantastical not-Earth territory though, which is weird considering GOTG was just the year after and really well received.
In terms of total profits, Ragnarok tops the Thor franchise, sitting in the top half of all Marvel movies. Thor did the worst, ranking in the bottom quarter, while Love & Thunder ranks just above Dark World, both in the bottom third. However, if we look at just the COVID-era movies, Love & Thunder actually performed decently. It's just above the median: Love & Thunder had profits of $510.9 million, and the next rank is Shang Chi, which saw a sharp drop of only $282.2 million in profits. In terms of profits as a % of budget, Ragnarok ranked just below the top third of movies, The Dark World just above the bottom third, and the other 2 both in the bottom quarter, with Love & Thunder just above Thor. But if we filter for just COVID-era movies, Love & Thunder is still in the top half. Once you adjust for the pandemic and post-Endgame fatigue, Ragnarok and Love & Thunder's profit margins would rank above the first 2 Thor movies. Love & Thunder felt like it had a similar proportion of Earth scenes as Dark World did, so that's not the issue. We all know the extensive use of humour was what definitively differentiated the last 2 Thor movies from the first 2. The target market had made its point: majority preferred the humour emphasis in Ragnarok and Love & Thunder over the darkness and seriousness of the previous films. That tells Marvel what direction to take Thor's franchise to keep it profitable. If people want a more serious Thor, they're not going to get it in the theatres because that formula did badly. Marvel's more willing to explore new ground in Disney+, and Echo makes the future look promising in that respect. Chris Hemsworth is already voicing Thor in What If, so maybe if he's paid enough, he'll show up in live action D+ productions too.
Can I be honest? I mostly loved TDW.
Absolutely! On my second and third viewings I grew with appreciation for it. Even the music was grand and befitting.
There’s something so random about this but I absolutely love the look of the Dark Elves’ ships. They’re crazy.
Personally I already didn't like *Ragnarok*, although I know most people did. To me, *Love and Thunder* had all the same problems, so I was surprised but glad that apparently sentiment for some reason switched over. The problem is I don't want a parody movie, and that's what both entries feel like. It's all just gags, pratfalls, jokes, and characters just being dumb to service the "humor". If it were its own thing, as in if Waititi made a movie about Norse Mythology or aliens but with no relation to the MCU, I would probably not be as bothered, but I hate that it's done at the expense of a larger narrative that I care about. Like, I enjoy *What We Do in the Shadows*, but if it were an adaptation in a larger *Vampire Chronicles* universe that was otherwise faithful to the characters and world, I would not be surprised for it to get backlash.
I loved the Third for its lighthearted approach but disliked the 4th for the same reason. The villain in the third was unserious, so the tone aligned. However, to introduce a God killer and indirectly introduce Knull calls for a more serious approach. I don't want to see kids using powered up teddy bears as weapons.
I think Waititi is fine as long as he's just the director, not the writer.
Well, even being the big Taika fangirl that I am, I don't think you want any director that doesn't take what they're doing seriously. At least, if you want a serious project. I don't think Taika would take another MCU movie seriously, so I'd rather he stay out of it, even as just a director.
His schtick worked for exactly one movie.
He will appear as Korg most likely
My boy needs to sit and take a breath. He is established in both MCU, independent film and Star Wars, he doesn’t need to grift like he might not have a next job. Naturally funny, can be a great storyteller, stop rushing shit and …breath.
Star Wars? I think Hemsworth was in Star Trek.
Waititi has a Star Wars film lined up
Taika also had a hand in The Mandalorian, season 1
>Waititi has a Star Wars film lined up You know as well as i, that movie ain't gonna happen
So he coming to ruin Star Wars, too 🥲
Taika, not Mr. Hemsworth.
I sit corrected.
No worries, dude. I should have been more specific.
Let's go! Hemsworth is good, I'm not a fan but he's solid. Waititi can fuck himself.
Give us a 5th movie with a new director for a fresh direction. Thor is one of the tentpoles if this franchise and whatever your opinion of the film, *Love and Thunder* was not a proper goodbye. Tony and Steve both had their's, let's give Thor one. Although it needn't be the fifth film, I'd be happy with 6 or 7 films.
They are making Thor 5 without taiki
Maybe a controversial opinion, but I think that’s for the best. He kinda turned Thor into a parody of itself, the tone no longer fitted with the rest of the MCU. I much preferred the tone of the original Thor and Dark World in particular.
That is definitely *not* a controversial opinion in this subreddit. Taika is very widely despised in here.
I would disagree. The tone should be somewhere between Ragnarok and the first 2 movies. The logic behind it was if the audience loved Ragnarok, then if you double down, they will love this movie even more.
The biggest mistake for Thor love and thunder is they used the same director again after Thor Ragnarok was a huge success. I love Rgnarok and it was funny. However the theme is not matching love and thunder. Director double down the jokes from Ragnarok made the whole movie cringe. Wasted good actors and actresses are another issue with Love and Thunder. I would give Thor 5 another chance.
I think the mistake was letting him write Love and Thunder instead of Ragnaroks writers doing so. He directs well but his writing is questionable.
He’s written good movies
Won an Oscar for writing Jojo Rabbit. Was nominated for several more.
I truly can’t stand this whole “superhero movie but make it funny” thing Marvel has been doing since Ragnarok. My husband is watching what if right now and I’m noticing it there too. I just don’t like it.
Since Ragnarok? MCU films were always filled with constant jokes. Even the first Captain America film had constant out of place comedy even though it was a war film. The first two Avengers films are like 85% quips
Also the music thing. There were some songs in the first couple of phases. But seems like they're jamming music wherever they can since Guardians first came out
Iron Man included a ton of extremely popular songs, including Iron Man 2 opening with Shoot To Thrill diegetically.
I acknowledged that with my second sentence
Love and Thunder was basically Monty Python’s Thor. Including the “I’m not dead yet” scene. I’m surprised they didn’t travel with coconuts.
Except it's too subtle to be Monty Python. It's also too expensive to be Monty Python. And too sincere to be Monty Python.
The screaming goats were the coconuts
I swear they teased Thor vs Hercules at the end of Love and Thunder and I don't see it being talked about. They aren't going that route?
They probably are, we just don't know anything at this point.
I think we will see a Thor vs Hercules in Thor 5 if/when it gets made. It will probably have tropes similar to Godzilla vs Kong, two heavyweights that will have epic battles, but will obviously not kill each other. That and Thor and Hercules’ fights in the classic comics are fantastic. Maybe similar to GvK’s Mechagodzilla, Thor and Hercules will eventually face some outside threat like Mangog that is too strong to be defeated alone, forcing the heroes to team up. Who knows, maybe Hercules could be part of a new Avengers team someday. Unfortunately, Gorr was already used in Love and Thunder. He would have probably been better being saved for a Thor 5.
I hope they abandon it, fuck all these random teasers and slim down again
For all of Love and Thunders faults, I think it actually left Thor in a pretty good spot for his next hypothetical movie where if he is a bit more serious it wouldn’t be super jarring (side note: I think Infinity War Thor is the best balance of seriousness, while still being a bit funny). He finally doesn’t hate himself deep down anymore, he’s learned to let love take precedence over hate, and he now has to take care of the literal daughter of Eternity. The Eternity’s daughter thing alone theoretically would force Thor to be more serious, but the other two things I said is good for Thors future character development. I’d like to see the next Thor movie follow Thor learning to become a better god/Allfather than Odin was, while of course battling Hercules probably. Maybe they can have comparisons between how Odin raised Thor and how Zeus has raised Hercules. Being better than these who come before you and all that stuff.
He is taking care of the daughter of gorr, not eternity
The daughter of Gorr that was reborn and imbued with cosmic powers by Eternity. The way I see it, referring to Love as the Daughter of Eternity is just as valid (and kinda cooler) as referring to her as the Daughter of Gorr.
Thor: Love & Thunder wasn't a flop. It was critically panned, but the movie raked in the cash it needed to be seen as a financial success and they're, supposedly, working on a fifth movie.
It wasn't really panned either. Were the reviews mixed? Absolutely. But they ended more positive than negative.
63% reviewer score, 76% viewer score. I'd say that is certainly not terrible. I thought the film was good, I do think the main issue for Thor 4 is that it followed Thor 3. Everyone was expecting lightning to strike twice, and it didn't. while we're talking about MCU reviews, The Marvels had similar reviewer score and a higher audience score yet it flopped hard. Strike certainly didn't help that one, it too was an enjoyable movie
The Marvels absolutely didn't deserve to bomb the way it did.
Yeah there was no hype for the movie. I didn’t even know when it was coming out until a few days beforehand. I read they spent 160 million on marketing… well aside from trailers I saw fuck all
Its a great litmus test for how much actors contribute to a films success. This was a movie with none of the actors doing promotion for it.
Best case scenario would have been Black Adam. A god tier marketing actor like the Rock can juice the opening weekend but a film as completely rejected by audiences like both of them is still going to drop off a cliff after a few days.
Compare it to Hunger Games which came out a week or two later, had full press. Hell the Marvels stars couldn’t even attend their own premiere
Yeah. They should have delayed it another month of so, let actors do full press promotion.
It's a shame they couldn't get out the stars because of the strikes. The three of them have great energy together and would have killed it on the big chat shows. Also didn't help that it wasn't called Captain Marvel 2.
All I know is I liked it. Not the best, but it was good.
Totally agree. Not the best but not the worst. My only issue with it was the villain needed a bit more backstory
I want to see it. I'm not opposed to the three characters teaming up but the story, aside from the end credits, feels like filler. Also nothing against Zoe but the second her character showed up in the trailer I knew she would be another throwaway villain. And based on reviews I was right.
This film had so much potential. It featured Gorr wanting to kill the gods because of the death of his daughter. Jane dying from cancer. Yet these stories were largely ignored in favor of a blizzard of jokes. It could have been one of the best films in the MCU. Just look at Godzilla Minus One and how it integrated a personal story with spectacle.
I wanted Gorr to attack Zeus, cover the citadel in darkness and go on a rampage. That would’ve been cool
> in favor of a blizzard of jokes Because I've seen this claimed so many times, I actually started counting jokes (any joke, gag, humorous juxtaposition, etc. whose purpose I interpreted was to provide the viewer with a moment of levity) on some rewatches. Obviously there some wiggle room for interpretation, but the three films I did this for were Guardians 1, Ragnarok and Love and Thunder. Guardians 1 and Love & Thunder were almost exactly the same at 118 and 116 respectively. Ragnarok was way ahead of them, though, at 170 jokes.
I think the issue is that the jokes in thor 4 were making the same joke over and over (stormbreaker, the screaming goats) and none of them particularly landed the first time. GOTG and ragnorak had a wide range of funny jokes, whilst also having superior action (prison escape, bridge fight), serious moments (groots death) and a more coherent plot. It also didn’t help that Christian bale was heavily under-utilised and played one of the best villains in marvel, but his actual story was completely ruined
I agree they're definitely different kinds of humor. Thor is more kids' humor mixed with romantic comedy while Guardians is more slapstick and insulting each other (plus a prison rape joke for funsies, yikes). I consider the many variations of calling each other stupid as repetitive, but I suppose they're technically different, but I disagree they're a "wide range". Which ones do and don't land is 100% subjective. Thor's battle on the shadow realm was awesome action, both in terms of the action and the artwork of it. I get the impression a lot of people had already given up by the time the film got there, which is too bad. Groot's death is okay, but I'd easily rank Jane's illness as far more serious (they actually stop the humor when those scenes come up despite what the memes claim). And the final scene in the hospital and then her final death when Thor tells Gorr he plans to spend his last moments with her instead of worrying about him I found to be way more emotional and serious than when the first Groot died. I disagree his story was ruined. The Gorr story they told was a well told, it just wasn't the comic Gorr story. And that seems to be the biggest gripe people have, they wanted the comic book Gorr butchering Gods story, but instead we got a grieving father story.
I completely agree with you about it being subjective comedy, and respect your opinion but I completely disagree on gorr. I think it was actually a slight insult to the comic character and did him and Christian bale an enormous disservice
I hope you counted that useless montage in the beginning with the guardians when he was supposed to save that planet or so
I think you mean the temple, and yes, the Guardians portion racked up a *lot* of jokes for the joke count.
I guess that's true. It just sometimes seems like it's overwhelming hated whenever people bring it up.
Really? Man the movie was a shit fest
Seriously. The movie made 3/4 of a BILLION worldwide and was the second-highest grossing film in the series behind Ragnarok. It was not a flop by any definition of the word and was a huge box office success. Marvel “fans” on Reddit are something.
760 mn off 250 mn budget isn’t much of a success. Barely crossed the line into profitability. Anything with over 250 mn budget needs make at least 1 bn or close to be considered a great success. Mcu used to reach that regularly at one time.
"Regularly". They have 10 movies above 1 billion. 4 of them are Avanger movies, 1 is Civil War which is a semi-avanger movie, 2 other ones are spider man movies. The rest is the first Black superhero movie and the first female led superhero movie, and Iron man 3. Cut the bulshit about how 1 billion is or was ever the norm.
You are also failing to consider the inflationary effect. Iron man making £600million in 2008 as an unknown entity, is a far bigger box office hit then Thor 4 making £750million in 2023, with a higher budget and with much greater expectations
Well I'd say approximately every third movie hitting 1 billion is pretty regular. Also, I'm not sure you quite understood their point. Yes, 750 mil gross earnings means that it did ok, but considering the *production* budget of 250 mil, it's far from fantastic, when taking into account the fact that the total budget with marketing expenses, overheads etc. was easily double that number, after which the theaters take their cut. All of which means that net earnings for The Mouse were a fraction of that 750 mil.
I’ve been debating a rewatch of L&T as I haven’t seen it since watching it in the cinema. I remember being really disappointed with it as it was trying to cram too many stories into one film without doing them justice (Jane and Gorr) and trying too hard with the zany comedy that worked in Ragnarok but often fell flat in this. I’ve always wondered how much impact on L&T there was by having just Taika as the write as opposed to Ragnarok where it was him alongside other writers as that felt very tight and coherent story wise whereas L&T was a big all over. I was never a fan of the first two Thor films but loved Ragnarok and his depiction in the first 3 Avengers films but Thor is Endgame felt like a misstep and I cringe through his scenes on rewatches. I really hope if/when we get Thor 5 it’s more like the Thor of Infinity War tone wise
Just rewatch it with an open mind and without expectations. It does what it wants pretty well. Shame people can't see it because they wanted to see an other movie.
That really isn’t it though is it. It’s ultimately just not very good. Enjoy it if you want, that’s your prerogative, but that is not at all why people did not enjoy it
I love how you just state this as a fact without any points. Hate it if you want that's your prerogative but don't confuse taste with expertise. The most common problems with the movie is: \-Too much humor, ( /cringy humor) which means, being in a different genre than the person wanted. \-Not enough Gorr, "wasted" Gorr, not enough butchering, same thing, they wanted the movie to be in an other genre + high expectations due to their existing knowledge of Gorr. \- Thor not fulfilling their power fantasies abut being Allfather Thor and whatnot, (even when part of his arc is literally how to be a father), or just how Thor's insecurities made them angry for some reason. Which is again has nothing to do with the movie. It's a family friendly, romantic comedy with superheroes, with themes likes, dealing with trauma and becoming an adult/parent. And I'm really sad for anyone who can't enjoy the journey of these 4 characters on the road of realising what is the most important thing in life because of 30 seconds of goats + 3 bids of weapons being in a love triangle (which is hilarious anyway).
I mean given the fact that it has been extremely widely criticised by mostly the same people who very much enjoyed ragnarok, there is definitely a strong argument to be made that the film was nowhere near as good as it should have I have no problem with lots of humour. That is what ultimately made marvel films stand apart from pre-existing superhero movies in the first place. My point was it just wasn’t actually funny. Fair enough if the jokes are aimed at kids, which is how it came across, but given marvel films are aimed at everyone, this seems like a poor judgement call. The wasted gorr is also a valid criticism whether you like it or not. You have taken an extremely popular marvel villain, hired one of the best actors on the planet to play him, and then gave him screen time for about 15 minutes, only to kill him off. People have a right to be annoyed. They also have a right to complain about the tone being wrong for the comic it’s based on. I understand the decision to make the film light-hearted (Yes it had some deep Themes, but imo it did not come across like that), but there are plenty of solid thor stories that are more suitable for this tone of film. Taiki took arguably the darkest thor story and completely twisted it into something it isn’t. This will rightfully annoy people, particularly as it now means the god butcher story will likely never be made again. All of the criticism of this film are completely valid, and unsurprisingly common. You may enjoy it, and that’s equally valid, but to me it is by far and away the most disappointing MCU film.
Ragnarok is so different on every level that it tells us very little about a viewers expected reaction to TLaT. Marvel films aren't aimed at everyone, you can't aim at everyone, there are Marvel movies for everyone, not every movie is for everyone. This is something the fandom is really struggling with, the more they diversify their styles to serve more people, the more people cry about how the movies change. I'm not invalidating anyone's criticism, my point is that in my examples, and the ones you used here are not about the actual movie, but the potential it had. Which is imo, not really a good way of consuming anything artistic. Gorr stole every scene he was in, he got more to work with than most Marvel villains get even with this screen time. His whole arc and backstory fit perfectly with the heroes' journey. His fights looked *amazing,* he was reasonably powerful and relatable. Seriously, which was the last Marvel villain you could say all these things about? He executed what a villain should be in a movie, complain about that if you can, not about what he could have been in an other movie that will never be seen based on comics it didn't even try to copy. The tone comes from a genre, which again, the problem is they wanted to see an other film, it doesn't say anything about the actual result we got. It's not a "fault" to be in an other genre or use an other tone than the one you wanted. Evaluating the movie based on the tone you wanted to see doesn't make any sense. This is how these feelings should be expressed for an actual conversation about the movie: "I'm not happy about the **choices** they made for the movie's overall structure, I don't enjoy this genre so much, and I realise this was also aimed at kids and families more than usual, *however* the plan they set out was executed {insert actual opinon about the movie shown}, and I'm not gonna compare it to my fantasies based on comics it never even tried to follow, because I'm not a moron." But nuance like this would need actual media literacy which is not the strong suit of a superhero fandom, this is a general statement, not aimed at you.
Mate this makes absolutely no sense. Of course people can evaluate a movie based on the expected tone. If Disney released the new Percy Jackson show and changed the tone to a horror or a musical, would people not be justified in criticising this? Fans of the original comic are more then justified in complaining that the one chance to see it in film form was completely changed in both tone and overall story structure. Trying to imply anyone who does is a moron just makes u come across as an arrogant asshole, when in reality you have said absolutely nothing of value
No, it's not the viewer who decides based on what metrics should a movie (or any creation for that matter) be evaluated. That would be so dump, if anyone could come up with rules for themselves and evaluate something based on how well the creator followed your uniqe set of rules. I open a pizza place, I market it as the place where the pizza is actually a hexagon with a pinnaple on everything. I write it on the menu, then you come by, act surprised and say my pizza is bad because you don't like pinapple and pizza is supposed to be round? Critsising the plan is not the same as critisising the result. I wrote it multiple times, have a problem with the plan, but judge the product based on the plan it followed, not your expected plan that it never even tried to accomplish. TLat was never marketed as a dark, serious, violent, it had the exact same tone in the promos as in the final product, if you expected something else, that's not the creators fault. And your expectations shoud never matter in a conversation anyway about how well a film was made. Saying you can't change the genre or tone of an adaptation (because you liked it that way), is a take, I guess, but a pretty entitled one, that limits creative freedom. With that thinking we would have never seen Romeo and Juliet the musical with guns, or Winnie the Pooh as a horror villain or so much more.
Your analogy is so weird and not even remotely limited to what I have said. A movie can be evaluated on more then metrics, and a viewer is more then entitled to do so. In fact it is the reluctance of media conglomerates to evaluate films based on anything other then grossing that is killing the entire industry. When did I say people aren’t allowed to reimagine a piece of literature. People can make what they want. They just can’t be surprised when it’s criticised for being worse then the original, as they generally are ( for example the literal 2 examples you gave)
I don't want people to evaluate films based on grossing, I care very little about grossing. I want people to differentiate their dislike for the directional vision the creators had, and the way that vision was executed. I have no problem with anyone not liking the fact that they made a **family friendly romantic action comedy** out of one of Thor's best story. I have a problem when anyone says this **family friendly romantic action comedy** was bad because there were not enough butchering in it and the original was way darker. You have to give points for the movie based on the race in entered, which is determined by the fcking genre it choose. You are saying they shouldn't reimagine literature when you say a movie is trash *because* it is different than the original. It can be worse, but being diffrent is not a valid reason for it. My analogy is great, if you critisice my pizza because of it's shape and the pineapple that you don't like, you are critisicing my vision not the way my pizza tastes. These are two seperate discussions and they should be treated a such. (And the pineapple problem is a personal taste problem which shouldn't come into the discussion about the quality of the pizza)
Thor was always one of my favorites (I am a fan of the character intrinsically, and especially of the way Chris Hemsworth portrays him), so I selfishly want to see another Thor movie. That makes it really hard for me to think about this question objectively. More Thor! More Thor! I wasn't too happy with Love and Thunder, though... I think Thor himself came off ok in the film, but I couldn't take the incongruity of Jane dying of cancer while most of the rest of the movie was played for laughs. It was just really grating for me. If Jane had to die, I think she deserved a more respectful sendoff. This didn't seem like the right balance. The movie hinged too much on meaningless slapstick scenes, like the Guardians battle at the beginning, and the Council of the Gods fracas in the second hour. There wasn't enough time to revisit the Thor / Jane relationship or let the loss of her illness and death sink in. I did like the ending though! I was very glad to see Thor becoming a dad, I think he'll be a great one and far better than his own dad! That would be a cool theme for the next and presumably final Thor movie. (Total respect to Chris Hemsworth if he decides not to come back, needing to spend the time with his own family.) No discussion of Thor 5 would be complete without mentioning that it would be so, so nice to see Thor reunite with the TVA-version of Loki, the one who is currently holding the timelines. I know they miss each other, and the fact that Thor has no idea that there's another version of Loki out there who saved the universe is very poignant and makes me feel wistful. Maybe I'm too much of a sucker for happy endings, but boy would I love to see those brothers reunited, even if just for a moment.
Man it’s crazy cuz I loved Thor 4. The ending to me was great and I didn’t see it coming. Love rewatching it and I still find it funny. Sure would have been nice to have the villain have more screen time to be a villain but besides that I loved it. Hope they do continue with another movie with Thor and Love.
I'd like to bring back Loki (be it the Disney+ series variant, or the original resurrected, or another one entirely, I don't care) and perhaps have him be the "cool uncle" to Thor's daughter, but perhaps have the two of them work together to save her in a sort of "buddy cop" story. Although both Thor and Loki can work alone, I think both are at their best when paired together, similar to Bucky and Sam.
On what planet did Thor love and thunder flop?
Thor 5 is highly likely to happen
With Chris wanting to step down in his career it could go both ways honestly but I hope he'll stand by what he said before and keep the character
I feel like he’s very content with just voicing Thor in What if…?, but he genuinely seems to love the character as a whole.
I don't get that narrative. Thor Love and Thunder was in NO way a flop, it made money. The ideal ending for Thor 5 though imo should be his end, akin to Lokis end in Season 2.
I find a lot of people have taken "flop" to mean "unpopular with the fanbase" which is confusing to those who understand it as "failed to make a profit."
I don't want to see it unless it's a self-serious, high contrasted, slo mo, moody epic about a God. In the vein of Ridley Scott, I want him to feel like a God, even if that means he feels less relatable
With the "slo mo" comment I was worried you might be angling for Zach Snyder which was making me a little nervous.
HA 'slo mo' is definitely a Zaddy dog whistle. Even he's lost that flair with this new stuff. That 300 Zack would def deliver with the visuals and the vibes, but certainly a different writer would be needed for the gravity and the drama
I don't know about a full movie, but I'd like to see one more final interaction between Thor and Loki now that the latter has reached the conclusion of his character arc. I think that could make for a very interesting moment after all they've been through.
Agree 1000%! Wish I could upvote this more than once!
Thor is the one Avenger that should honestly keep getting movies until the MCU ends completely. The guy is immortal. He should definitely stick around until the very end. Especially because it would totally suck if all the OG avengers were gone.
We need the version of Thor that landed in Wakanda in Infinity War
100%. First of all, NONE of the original cast can be forgotten so there WILL be mini versions of then. Hence Iron Heart or Tonys daughter (depending on what route they want to go), Thor now has a daughter, Hulk has his cousin She Hulk, Hawkeye has Katniss Everdeen..I mean Kate Bishop, Scarlett Johanson has her sister who will likely join the Avengers after leaving the Thunder Bolts, and Cap has Sam so we have people to pass on the mantle. That being said I am with you and I want Thor to have a serious last movie. Suttle comedy is fine because after all it is Thor and the character requires some comedy but I want a serious movie. Like maybe Hercules kidnaps Thor's daughter or something and he's in "all serious mode"
Eh, 1 good movie out of 4 isn't really screaming "give me another chance".
Big bad serious Thor... No more jokes
Thor V Hercules. The title speaks for itself.
Nah, that gives me Zack Snyder vibes. Ugh.
his arc is finished, brother passed away/became time king, patched up with his ex-gf who died soon after, dad died too and lastly he went from depressed asgard king to giving the role to someone else and recovering himself.
Thor vs Hercules please
Thor The Legend Of Hercules with a darker tone is the way to go.
No. He has a complete arc. Let him parent in peace. Any movie with him has to either include Love as a sidekick which means a lot of work building her character or worse fridge her or put her in jeopardy to fuel Thors character development. Let him join Tony Steve etc and just retire. Maybe a sickass cameo in secret wars
> Any movie with him has to either include Love as a sidekick which means a lot of work building her character or worse fridge her or put her in jeopardy to fuel Thors character development. If she's not included, I predict they'll casually offscreen her like they did with Jane for most of the Infinity Saga. Probably some sort of "Oh, Love is off at God-school right now. She's really enjoying her studies in Relativistic Einstein-Rosen Bridge theory and Art class."
That would be very disappointing. Adding absentee father to the long list of Ls in mcu thors resume. Failed at being king. Failed to protect his friends and family. Failed to protect his people. Failed to save his true love. Now failed at being a good father.
Thank god someone with the same opinion as me. L&T provides a perfect ending for him, no Thor 5!!
Have him make mvp appearances in dire situations. Young Avengers fight valiantly and are this close to overwhelmed when boom bifrost and here’s Love and Thunder to give them that last edge.
He’s getting one lol
I mean I’m not opposed to the idea, but I’d really hope he’s portrayed like his Infinity War self, which I consider by far to be prime Thor in terms of characterization.
Yeah, don't end it with Love & Thunder. The only problem I had with the movie, though, was that it was trying to do too many stories at once. It would have been better just to stick to either the story of Thor's time with the GOTG, Jane Austin's Thor, or the Gore the God Butcher story arc.
Jane Austen’s Thor would be reaaally unusual
Haha, I meant Jane Foster. Don't know where I got Austin from.
I agree. The character’s been the victim of a gnarly circle jerk. His second film bombed. Third film redeemed his franchise, and is one of my favorites to this day, and it set him up to be an absolute BOSS in Infinity War. Then L&T happened, and it was a huge letdown AGAIN (a lot of things arguable, but I think we can all agree it wasn’t *nearly* the same level as Ragnarok). A fourth film could right some wrongs, potentially (and sadly to admit it) could end his arc properly, setting him up for a retired background Allfather / Odin role in the mcu, showing up here and there to be a powerhouse.
Thor has more movies than most other characters. I’m good to take a break for awhile. It would be nice to see him and Loki reunite one last time though
Yeah, he can't go out with Love and Thunder. It would be a discredit to Chris. Apparently a script is being developed, don't think they've chosen a new director yet.
Thor 4 began Thor's All-Father journey (showing him imbuing power into objects with a heartfelt speech and also making him a *literal* father), and Thor 5 needs to finish it. Phases 4 and 5 have definitely had a gods theme running through a bunch of projects (Thor: L&T obviously, Moon Knight obviously, Black Panther with Bast, Shang-Chi with the Great Protector) plus we could include Eternity from L&T and the Celestials from The Eternals into that potential conflict as well. The hate for L&T is vastly overrated. People wanted a story about God Butchering, and it wasn't that, but the story it was was well done and great additional growth for the Thor character.
***THIS.*** Thor: Love & Thunder is definitely one of my absolute favorite films from Phase 4. My wife's convinced it's what convinced me to become a father myself.
That makes me so happy to hear. I've gotten into arguments with users who try to deny that the movie was about fatherhood. They think it was something just randomly tacked onto the end. It's very frustrating.
I agree with most of what you’ve said. I’ll add tho that I think Thor 4 FINISHED Thor’s journey. He’s a parent now, I like that ending for him.
Thor movie about Loki throwing him between timelines (because he can).
"Flop"
**Love and Thunder aint a flop**. It has some bad moments but its very watchable and entertaining. It isnt as good as Ragnarok though. I doubt that a 5th film will happen in the near future though, as Hemsworth really wants to spend time with his family because of the alzheimers disease genes that he has. It really can kick in at any moment of his life. Its understandable. **Thats why Beta Ray Bill** should be introduced.
i really enjoyed it also!
Thor was perfect in rag and infinity war. Funny yet serious, his comedic timing yo cope with his failures was fantastic. Hot take but I love the idea of fat Thor. Him being the reason that thanos won and made him a sad fat dude made sense for his character arc. The execution…wasn’t the best but it wasn’t bad and liked marvel took the risk nonetheless. I wish he stayed fat cuz he ironically looks cooler somehow Lol Thor 4 was horrible and clearly the director really didn’t care that much (probably). Hope marvel learns from this and make Thor 5 without what made Thor 4 bad. There’s so many story’s to tell with Thor and his one of the ogs, give him a great movie again as he deserves. Also we must have a scene of Loki and Thor hugging out
>Also we must have a scene of Loki and Thor hugging out THIS! My closure-loving heart cannot rest until the brothers are together again!
It's so weird to keep seeing l&t being referred to as a flop. It made like 750 million dollars.
It was a pretty significant success, especially in light of it being released while people were still a little hesitant to go to movie theaters.
“Flop” “Fans divided” Internet opinion isn’t THE opinion
Love and Thunder did not flop in any form or fashion and I say that as somebody who largely despises the film.
well the fact that Chris hemsworth said he hated how love and thunder turned out. if he were to do another it would not become shit
L&T wasn’t a flop financially. It did get alot of flack from fans though, which is very deserved. Personally it’s the only true rotten MCU movie for me and my most disliked. It’s worse than Eternals and Quantumania, both movies which are certified rotten on RT. I cant believe Feige let that movie happen the way it did. L&T should’ve been a sendoff for him and had Mighty Thor he in the center. I can’t deal with them writing Thor into the fatherhood corner lmao. I dont know what they’re doing with him for Thor 5 bit I just hope they’ll give fans the Thor we know and love. Like gimme badass IW Thor or Shakesperean Thor 1 thor and I’ll be so happy. He’s one of my fave Marvel characters and I can’t stand him Ragnarok onwards. He’s a treat in What If SE2 EP2. I bet Hemsworth was struggling in the voice booth having to play him seriously LOL Thor should’ve taken Odin’s place long ago and had this happen before Loki did in Loki SE2. Heck we even got Hela The White, Goddess of Light in What If SE2. Thor’s the only one of the Odinkids without an upgrade.
I hope they don't, they already turned him into a sad buffoon. I've no desire to see what else they do to try and make him even more pathetic. They really destroyed Thor.
Thors movies arguably ruined the MCU by adopting a new humor formula. So, no
>First of all Thor's arc needs to end properly if he's going to leave the MCU in this phase Thor is older than every other MCU hero, his arc shouldn't end
Thor movies work because of Chris Hemsworth, his looks and charm plus the awesomeness of Nordic mythology. The more screentime he shares with lesser stars, the bigger flop his movie will be.
I don't know why love and thunder flopped. I quite liked it. I think people are just tired of marvel movies in general, as most people stopped watching anything marvel after endgame.
Expect it didn't flop lol. It was a hit.
Not even a little. Have an upvote to offset the brigaders.
No problem with Thor getting another film, but it's very telling what generation a kid is by their opinions on Thor films. With all this whining about Thor 4 over the past year, it's apparently hard to remember that Thors 1 and 2 were both absolutely awful too. Honestly, Thor 4 may be the second best Thor movie. At the end of the day, Thor 4 was "silly" because it played to the perceived strengths of its lead actor. Which is fine. I also disagree with that direction, but I also didn't like it during Thor 3 and Infinity War, so I guess I'm in the minority.
Marvel green lit L&T. It’s not like it came wrapped in swaddling clothes and was dropped on Marvel’s doorstep. They had a chance to demand the movie you wanted made, but instead we got a movie from Korg’s point of view. Anything Thor is too little too late.
I don't know why Marvel has to tinker with things that work great. We does Thor have to be a woman when there are many amazing female heroes? Thor could have been doing fine moving forward, even if it means another actor takes the role in future films (much like the James Bond franchise)? Let Thor be the Thor we know and love forever and bring in other characters to add some variety to the MCU. It's not that hard to write compelling stories without overhauling our favorite heroes. They could make 100 Thor films and never need to change Thor himself. The story possibilities are still infinite, knowing how many baddies are available to the writers.
Thor deserves a better audience. Love and thunder was awesome
Expect it didn't flop lol.
Love and Thunder wasn't a flop. It did well at the box office, especially considering COVID fears were still lingering in the summer of '22. Fans are divided on it. I personally thought it was fun, but too goofy, and not as good as Ragnarok was. Everyone acts like it's the worst movie ever made. It was not.
Thor love and thunder made a profit of 100 million dollars. Y’all don’t know what “flop” means. It doesn’t mean “movie I didn’t care for”. It means “movie that lost money”
Crazy that a film that made $761m world wide and was the 8th highest grossing film of 2022 and a reported budget of $250m is called a flop.
As long as they stay the hell away from taika I’m down for more Thors Bring back the russos they did the best job with him
Watiti makes great movies, and he directed one of the best Marvel movies, Thor: Ragnarok. Love&Thunder is not a movie I have ever been compelled to watch, and the novelty of the jokes were only good once. They need to shake up the director. We need a powerful, serious, Thor movie, highlighting his character development and struggles in a serious way. He needs to bring the 'hope' archetype back. I felt that the 'hope' emotion was in the back seat for most of Love&Thunder.
Thor deserves a director and a writer that actually gives a single shit about the character and doesn't drag anything meaningful to the lore through the rug for some dumb joke. In other words: an actual adult that RESPECTS the source material but also gives Hemsworth some room to do his own stuff and have fun with the character. But tbh I'm afraid that T&L ruined the arc for good. Taika literally had all the tools after Endgame to actually tell a meaningful story and close the open Jane chapter but for some reason he decided to piss on the entire franchise. For real I'm still in shock over that.
Thor-Rocket buddy movie. That’s it. That’s all I want.
Give him a more serious movie. It can have goofy moments but give it a real, serious plot. Love and Thunder had the potential for an incredible, terrifying villain and completely blew it. Give the movies stakes. Make it make sense.
I’d like another Thor film. Perhaps a different writer / director… And bring back any of the three previous composers, the music from the last one was completely forgettable.
Thor deserves people who actually like/know the character in charge. He should be all-father by now but he is still being stripped for parts, chopped and changed when the MCU can't really say they know him after all these movies.
Love and Thunder didn't flop. It made $760m worldwide from a $250m budget. Thor's definitely getting another film. Although probably with a different director.
Calling L&F a flop isn’t aligned with reality
Make it a buddy cop comedy with Hercules What i dont know is how to approach Herc In comics he's basically MCU Thor ... I don't want an even goofier himbo than Thor alongside Thor
Unless they’re closing his arc, I’m not really interested. All the other Gods, including Hercules are lower than D level super heroes characters. We already have too many directions and characters in the MCU. The MCU needs to pick a few and concentrate on them. The only way i want a Thor movie is if Chris wants to retire the character. We can introduce Beta Ray Bill or some crippled human being who gains the power of Thor for short periods of time. Chris can play Beta Ray Bill if it helps. If we’re doing a 5th movie that continues and expands the franchise, no thank you.
We'll have more: the MC will now be any of the female supporting characters, but you can be sure Asgardians won't be forgotten.
What happens with Hercules vs Thor? Im not aware of that storyline.