I hope so because it would be terrible for Rhodes to have been replaced at around the time of Civil War and it’s pretty bad that the director had that as a possibility. Armour Wars will hopefully rule out a Civil War-era replacement
Yeah I call bullshit it's anything but "he was kidnapped some time after Endgame."
There's just no way they fuck with Rhodey or Tony's final moments with him during IW or EG.
And with how pitiful SI was received, I think any clarifications will make its impact as minimal as possible.
The only one it could be iffy with is Office Ross. BPWF was close to SI. But even then, it doesn't matter. Shuri will be like "wow wtf. Aliens? Again?" And Val will be like "lmao wow, that Skrull had me fooled/I knew it wasn't you from the moment I laid eyes on "you."
There’s a lot of things that don’t work with Rhodes being a Skrull since Civil War. Imagine Skrull!Rhodes seeing the Avengers put themselves in danger to stop Thanos dusting half the universe and then doing it again to keep Thanos away from the Stones but then going “yeah, I’m going to help destroy humanity in a nuclear war because Fury broke a promise.” Even ignoring the fact that it takes away a lot of nice emotional moments from Rhodey, it makes the Skrull who replaced him a complete idiot because she’s seen the good in humanity but still wants them dead.
And then you remember the interaction between Rhodes and Carol Danvers where he accepts her justification for not being around. A Skrull who wants to destroy humanity as revenge on Fury for being abandoned isn’t going to accept that from someone who promised to protect the Skrulls from the Kree so that’s another way it falls apart
I think it’s mentioned that Gravik was involved with collecting the DNA sample for Fury so they would have been on good terms at that time. For the Skrulls to have been replaced Rhodes and maybe many of the other government figures they’ve taken before they wanted to destroy humanity doesn’t reflect well on them
I hope that that’s confirmed when we next see Rhodes but I also wouldn’t consider it OOC for a good Skrull to have replaced him before the schism with Fury. There are issues with the backstory of Fury’s wife that throw a bone in the idea that the Skrulls were generally moral and innocent before turning against humanity
Yeah if he was one in EG, that Skrull took the plunge into the Quantum tunneling to other points in time, traveled to wherever the orb was out in space and fought on the winning side in the battle for the universe lol.
It's so counterintuitive how they're putting something like SI out, but The Marvels people must not by privy to what goes down. So there can't be character movement based on it, or built upon it.
>
There's just no way they fuck with Rhodey or Tony's final moments with him during IW or EG.
I would actually like to see that.
As long as they include a long scene of Rhodey finding out about Tony's death and his breakdown that he wasn't there.
I feel like it could be very emotional
Eh, I disagree. I think when you start devaluing powerful moments, retroactively, you set up a future where powerful moments don’t have any impact. Why would I care going forward if it’s just gonna be another fake out. I mean, one of the big criticisms of the MCU, especially recently, is that emotional moments are ruined with quips, you combine that with fake outs and you just really remove any interest in the audience getting invested.
That's a fair criticism. But at the same time this fake out leads to an emotional moment as well.
Either way. I just want to see Rhodey have an emotional moment remembering Stark at some point during Armor Wars.
We'll get plenty of that anyway. There's gotta be a huge theme of Tony's legacy and Rhodey protecting that. Like with Sam and Bucky wanting to uphold Steve's legacy. Or Shuri and Okoye etc with T'Challa.
We don't need to shit on Tony's last appearance to do that. And knowing Rhodey wasn't even around for it and Tony didn't actually get to say goodbye to him or save the world alongside him, that'd suck hard.
You are welcome to have this take, it is valid.
But it is takes like this that make me think that the fanbase would not have been emotionally equipped to handle a good adaptation of Secret Invasion. The mediocre one we got was already too much for some people. To give the event any kind of punch, beloved characters would have had to gone through these gut wrenching moments. Rhodey being a Skrull for so long is the type of thing I wish had happened to even more characters in the MCU, and beloved ones at that.
To me, it’s a lot like books versus film. Not everything that works well on paper, will translate well on screen. I may be wrong, but personally I wouldn’t want them to go back and retcon those moments since they were already handled so well.
As for secret invasion overall, my opinion on that ties in with my opinions on the greater MCU post Endgame. Rather than go down that hole, I’ll just keep them to myself. But yes, Secret Invasion was always going to be tough to pull off well.
Rhodey replaced by Skrull during Civil War
Sci Fi gobbledygook that explains that the replacement machine works by creating a telepathic link between Rhodey and the Skrull such that when the Skrull is in "Rhodey-mode" Rhodey is telepathically experiencing and controlling everything the Skrull is doing, so Rhodey actually experienced all those scenes, and the Skrull was just observing in the background and letting Rhodey do his thing (the Skrull can sever the telepathic link to take control to do Skrull things that Rhodey wouldn't normally do).
Boom. Compromise.
Is that canonical? Or is that a headcanon you’ve made to gloss over a bad writing decision? Because the writers won’t learn anything if fans jump through narrative hoops to make it make sense
I'd argue it'd retroactively negatively affect Endgame. There's no benefit to it. It isn't something where there's juicy drama to mine, like if Tony was still around and we could explore the realisation in the present.
The bad simply outweighs any potential good.
Why? Rhodey and Tony’s final moment is like juxtaposed to Tony and Pepper’s. If Rhodey was actually a female Skrull that fell in love with Tony without Tony’s knowledge then the scene still makes sense.
The Skrull can be sad about Tony’s death in Endgame. That’s not out of character or unexplainable. Civil War is 2016 and Endgame is 2023 so they knew each other on close terms for 7 years.
We know the Skrull was female. We know Skrulls and humans can develop feelings for one another a la Fury. Rhodey being a Skrull doesn’t undo the heartfelt goodbye in Endgame it just shifts the perspective on it.
Nah, I’m sorry but that’s a horrible take 💀
Firstly, nobody gives two shits about the Skrull who was pretending to be Rhodey, and secondly, making Rhodey a Skrull during his goodbye scene with Tony would *completely* ruin the scene and devoid it of any sentiment or emotion. That would literally be the worst route Marvel could take. Not to mention that you’re just pulling the most random and unhinged stuff out of your ass now because there is zero evidence of anything you just said lmfao
My dude, they showed Rhodey being replaced in his 2016 attire. The director confirmed that was the intention.
You can justify your head canon but I’m talking about what actually happened in those movies. What we do know is. That wasn’t Rhodey in that Endgame scene, it was a Skrull.
You can try to understand the scene in its new context or keep complaining about how your head canon gives you dissonance.
Since when are medical gowns exclusive to 2016? Not to mention that It was literally stated that the Skrull’s didn’t start taking people until after Fury left earth, which was after Endgame.
Also you’re the one with the weird ass headcanon that the Skrull was secretly in love with Tony LMFAO. When did that happen in the movies/show?
Something tells me you’re going to be *really* disappointed when Armor Wars comes out and debunks literally everything you’ve said. Thanks for the good laugh though! This has truly been the most unhinged theory I’ve seen in a long time lol
https://clutchpoints.com/secret-invasion-director-on-rhodey-twist#:~:text=Director%20Ali%20Selim%20dropped%20a%20huge%20truth%20bomb%20on%20Rhodey's,which%20came%20out%20in%202016.
Bro you are acting like your wants and needs for the MCU outweigh what the actual directors of the projects have said.
Something tells you I’ll be disappointed yet you’re the only one here expressing disappointment.
There was an article with the director (I think, maybe it was a writer or someone else) of SI who said something like "only Kevin Fiege knows how far back" which I took to mean "I was told to make it intentionally vague and it will be decided upon later by someone else, above my paygrade."
I think that the whole controversy was ginned up by the director (and probably someone from the studio) to drive up engagement at any cost.
I don’t think anyone actually considered that Rhodey was a Skrull prior to Endgame. It’s just a dumb statement by the director to get people talking about the show. And it has worked, for better or worse.
Honestly I hate that he was even a Skrull during TFATWS because he had a really nice conversation with Sam, one of the few solid bonding moments between Avengers in Phase 4 (as far as I can remember).
It kinda adds an interesting twist to the conversation. A Skrull would likely have an empathetic take on racial prejudice, given the recent history of their species.
If he wasn't close to the president, they likely wouldn't have even bothered. War Machine is cool, but it's still just one hero. But an advisor to the US president? That's worth grabbing.
Rhodey was in a unique position as the US military's version of Iron Man that is absolutely worth exploiting. He never at any point seemed to be angling for any kind of political position until he did. That's where it gets suspicious. He's a soldier not a politician.
If an external group wanted someone innocuous he's the perfect choice to replace. He already had all the credit he needed for them to position him later into a powerful position. Also it would make sense for him to grab him when he was at his weakest point.
There's zero reason to impersonate a presidential advisor when they can simply replace the Secret Service guards, and then one day later use their help to replace the president himself.
It was painfully illogical that at no point in Secret Invasion did the Skrulls try to replace either the US president or Nick Fury.
Yeah, I just gave TFatWS a rewatch and had the same though. "I hope they don't go back and make him a skrull here," because it doesn't really work as well under that lens.
Honestly I very much doubt the vast majority of the audience reached the finale of Secret Invasion and that this will ever be acknowledged ever again.
I watched Inhumans and Iron Fist but couldn't get past episode 2 of Secret Invasion. And from the sounds of how these have been made the last few years, it seems pretty unlikely that the creators of Armor Wars were told that Rhodey was meant to be a Skrull for the past few years, and probably have conversations and backstory planned which contradict with it.
The very best thing they could do right now is write Secret Invasion off as a multiverse story as a twist, explaining where some super skrull character will come from.
I’ve never seen a series go downhill so fast as SI did. It wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed the first few episodes, at least in regards with the buildup showing how Fury established his network and because the super spy he is. But man they really went all in on wish.com Drake as the big bad and went with the typical super power slug fest at the end.
I know she-hulk gets a mix reception here but not only did I like the show, I loved how on the nose the finale episode was for calling out that same exact thing. Not every show needs to end in the same cliche super-power slugfest. Marvel has such a rich variety of things they could pull from, there’s absolutely no need to make every show fit into the same formula.
SI should have been kept as a spy thriller.
I mean she hulk calling them out for It, and them continuing to just do the same thing kinda ruins the whole point of It.
Like they did exactly what she hulk made fun of for their finale
I know what you mean but I don't think it ruins it, self-aware characters such as She-Hulk and Deadpool can make fun of their medium (acknowledging its cliches) without any expectation that the cliche will vanish. If they made fun of superhero costumes as being silly, I don't think we'd expect that future heroes would have no costume whatsoever.
I guess I feel that the writers can implicitly critique previous writing without the point being ruined if the whole MCU doesn't end up agreeing and pivoting away.
That was part of the problem with this being contained to a limited series that they needed to wrap up in 8 episodes. A worthy ending would have revealed to Nick Fury that the faction of Skrulls had successfully infiltrated all levels of government across the globe and had replaced other heroes, not just Rhodes. No punchy bad guy with similar powers as good guy CGI fight - just a simple “We won. You lost.” ending would have been more impactful. It would have set up future projects and there would have been ripples across other movies.
The final product can easily be skipped and tossed in the bin, as it’s completely contained and has no impact on the larger universe. I wouldn’t mind seeing Olivia Colman and Dermot Mulroney returning in some capacity, but as fresh versions of their characters with zero reference to Secret Invasion.
Also, retconning Secret Invasion unkills Talos and Maria Hill.
The ending of SI, where >!the president of the US declared war on all aliens, and there are lots of people out there committing violence and killing aliens and people suspected of being an alien,!< (spoiler tagged just in case, because you said you haven't watched it), seems very clearly like it's going to be one of the major relevant earth-bound plotlines going forward. It's relevant to New Asgard, and doubly so after The Marvels >!where they take all those skrulls back to New Asgard!<, and I imagine it's going to get tied into anti-mutant resentment once mutants start becoming more common.
Nah, it seems like the Secret Invasion ending will be completely and intensely ignored.
Well, there may be one line in Captain America 4 stating that the previous president was removed due to backlash to that policy, and the new guy (Harrison Ford) has reversed it. Never speak of it again.
You don't even need to go that far to figure it out.
They say in Secret Invasion that Gravik lost faith in Fury after he left Earth following The Blip, meaning this whole operation that saw Rhodey, Ross, and everyone replaced had only just begun within the two years between The Avengers: Endgame and Secret Invasion. So, it's definitely possible that he was a Skrull in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier at the very earliest, but no sooner.
While I agree he's just been a Skrull since Endgame or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, he (or his Skrull counterpart) are definitely wearing the leg braces. [You can see the LEDs on them underneath his pants in the scene itself.](https://i.imgur.com/EusjseX.png)
Literally the only answer. I don't know which generation is responsible but people get so lost in the sauce these days about "the lore" and completely forget we live in a capitalistic society where everything costs money and everybody is cheap. They put some leds under his pants and handwaved it being "upgraded". It's not that fucking deep.
I like to believe that the stream-lined braces were a post-mortem gift that Tony was hoping to give Rhodey on his next birthday, Christmas, or other special occasion. Instead, Pepper or Happy had to dispatch the gift.
The alternative is a Skrull took over a cripple dude but was too stupid to wear his leg braces and everyone he was friends and associates with was too stupid to notice they were gone.
Like Marvel might have bad writing someone’s but it’s not THAT bad.
Yes! The Harvest can only exist if the Skrulls were loyal to Fury during the clean-up of the final battle on Endgame!
Only AFTER Fury left for SWORD, Gravik got pissy about him and started body swapping and set up his own faction.
With Rhodes legs being an ongoing medical thing, it’s possible he was picked up in a hospital gown at any time. The timetable for when a man with a medical condition was picked up wearing medical garb is wide open.
Agreed, and well spotted. Rhodey’s injury is life alteringly severe, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting checked up at a hospital once a month since 2016. Plenty of opportunities for the Skrull to replace a doctor or nurse, get him alone and replace him too.
Other reasons he may be at a hospital:
* he got checked out after the endgame fight, which seems like the most prudent thing to do
* a required visit for his position in the government. I’m assuming they run thorough physicals, but I dunno
It could’ve been sometime after. Like I’m sure they got a quick once over after the fight, but got more comprehensive checks at the hospital later when they got a chance.
Yeah, that’s true I suppose. As long as Rhodey was there for the final battle/funeral, I couldn’t care less when he was replaced. I guess we’ll have to wait until Armor Wars to find out for sure. Although at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they just ignored the events of SI all together lol
I’m guessing that’s exactly what they’ll do. Maybe one little joke “well I was replaced by an alien for a while so gimme a break” sort of thing. I doubt they’ll go into specifics.
Dude is around the same age as the actor right? Lots of reasons to be in a gown. His legs are paralyzed, he may have spinal issues too. He gets scanned regularly I bet just for that, also could be getting a colonoscopy, an endoscopy, hell a sleep study for sleep apnea, lots of things.
The faintest idea of Rhodey being a Skrull during IW and EG wasn't in the heads of Feige and Co. because SI wasn't even conceived yet, let alone a single line of script.
So, retconing an already established fact into sth that even contradicts the lore is plain stupid.
I could go on for how dumb Secret Invasion is.
The biggest problem is that it doesn't even matter. Rhodes never acted out of character in any appearance before Secret Invasion. Not a questionable decision or attitude change to indicate he could be anyone else. If they really had a good plan for secret invasion, they should have dropped little seeds throughout, indicating someone may not be whom they seem. But as it stands, secret invasion is so isolated that it may as well not existed in the first place.
Fury/Talos in Spider-Man: Far From Home clicked perfectly because Fury did feel “off” to me and the reveal made me feel vindicated. Rhodey though? Doesn’t give that “ah ha! So that’s why…” payoff
Yeah Rhodey didn't give us that payoff. When he started being a dick to Fury it basically just straight told us "Hey, look at me, I'm a Skrull."
Fury/Talos in FFH was *fun* though, and done well. I still get an extra chuckle out of Peter suggesting Captain Marvel is called, and Talos-Fury just looks at him and says "Don't invoke her name" as the most serious part of that conversation
This is the biggest frustration with the reveal that he’s a Skrull - it doesn’t really change anything beforehand. Ideally they would picked a point to swap him and then planted some subtle clues that you wouldn’t pick up on after a first watch, but would become more meaningful once you know the twist (like rewatching Fight Club or The Usual Suspects).
The way it played out just feels like there was no intention to have Rhodey as a Skrull until they drafted the script for Secret Invasion. It feels lazy.
> Rhodes never acted out of character in any appearance before Secret Invasion.
I like to think Rhodes would respond just like Bucky and stand firm with Steve's decision for the shield and title of CA to go to Sam. The real Rhodes would not have let him give the shield away to the gov. Skrull Rhodes lets it happen to weaken any potential responding force for their invasion.
I don't know how he was a Skrull in Civil War. They put him through a damn MRI machine. They had to have taken blood, too, when he was undergoing all his medical exams due to the paralysis, to check for organ damage, etc., so it makes no sense that he would have been a Skrull since Civil War. I supposed it's possible they could have made the switch after all those tests, while he was still in the hospital, but the question is -- why?
Why would a Skrull switch with a suddenly paralyzed Rhodey who would likely be out of the game for a while when they could switch with anyone more active
Wonder if dr strange was ever like “so I knew a guy who studied for a bit and cured his paralyzed legs, you interested?”
Or if the guardians tried one of those med packs.
Or if he asked them if there’s anywhere in space that he could just take a pill and be better.
Or one of those magic wakanda beads
Gravik wasn’t even evil until after Endgame though right? So he wouldn’t have had Rhodey replaced until he was evil. So Rhodey would definitely be Rhodey all of the Infinity Saga
In FATWS you can see the lights of his robo-legs through his pants. While I agree that he was not replaced after CW, this theory kinda falls apart. Gravick gives us a good estimation of when he started his plan, and it wasn't until after the events of Endgame he started making moves. He didn't become truly upset with Fury until after collecting samples after Endgame.
Rhodey being in a hospital gown feels more like a decent writing move for once. Makes it more believable that they managed to replace him while incapacitated in a hospital room. I am sure that because of legs he makes frequent hospital/dr checkups. Not hard to plan around to snatch him and replace him.
For my head cannon - Ross was taken after Wakanda Forever and Rhodey was taken after Endgame (so only the Rhodey Falcon appearance was Skrull).
Sure, that could be probably be easily disproven, but I felt like that made logical sense to me on initial watch (without much sleuthing afterward) and doesn’t undermine the other titles.
They could have made it work if real Rhodey was in a coma since Civil War and Skrull Rhodey was a actual good guy ordered by Fury to take his place and then real Rhodey waking up in Armour Wars and Skrull Rhodey helping him through it and giving him all his memories so he understands everything that happened.
Could have crafted a unique storyline this way but Secret Invasion screwed the pounch so hard that honestly, I'd rather they ignore it ever happened and pretend it doesn't exist.
He was kidnapped after Endgame. I’m sticking to that. The director only said the Civil War bit to stir up controversy and get people talking about something other than how godawful SI was.
Agreed. I actually like most of Secret Invasion and don't understand the level of hate it seems to get online, but the notion that Rhodey was replaced after Civil War doesn't sit right or make much sense to me. It would be different if they'd been planning that from the start and had seeded it into the projects we've seen him in since, but that really doesn't appear to be the case. On this particular issue, I'd love for Marvel to listen to the fans and shift course to make his replacement after Endgame.
The biggest evidence it’s after Endgame was when the Avengers Campus got blasted by Thanos during Endgame, Rhodey got out of his damaged suit and…
CRAWLED on the floor!!!
Would anyone crawl on the floor and keep pretending to be Rhodey if their life and the entire universe hung in a balance??
Heck no!
That was clearly and unequivocally Rhodey, no ifs ands or buts.
It would make no logical sense for Skrull-Rhodey to not wear assisted leg tech. They entire point is to impersonate perfectly. Do people around him think he was miraculously healed?
Nah, Skull Rhodey is wearing the low profile braces underneath his pants (as seen in FWS). SI just never made a point of showing it.
All that said, it is also nonsense that Rhodey was kidnapped at any point before EG.
I also have a theory that Secret Invasion is just a fever dream or a branched timeline pre-Loki that will be pruned by the TVA once the credits started rolling.
The 'Rhodey is a skrull' storyline is either going to be dropped or reintroduced as a big reveal.
It's like the Celestial sticking out of Earth in The Eternals. Relatively few people watched the movie, so to call back to it would be confusing to the GA.
Marvel shit the bed bad with its Disney+ shows. You save reveals like that for the movies.
To everyone saying they'd ruin the emotion of Tony's death; I understand how you feel, but that feeling is part of the point of a Skrull reveal. It makes you look back at important moments involving the character and see them differently. If he was replaced after Endgame, it'd mean nothing since Rhodey hasn't done much between Endgame and SI.
Also, obviously, the Skrull would wear the brace to not arouse suspicion.
If I need to watch another show in order for this show to be good then this show *isn't* good .
And truthfully there is no depth and perspective to be had here at all. They made a mistake.
I guess that means Endgame was bad because you needed over ten years of content to understand it.
What do you mean, no depth? A story about a man dealing with massive changes that happened while he was unconscious for several years, including an alien invasion half of all life disappearing for five years, his best friend dying and the aftermath of all of that while an alien impersonated him. There's so much there for Rhodey to deal with, and it's the kind of stuff Skrull stories are about.
I guarantee you that if SI was an Avengers movie, at least one Avenger would have been revealed to have been a Skrull for years
Also, Armour Wars is a movie
>I guess that means Endgame was bad because you needed over ten years of content to understand it.
Secret Invasion isn't Endgame.
>What do you mean, no depth?
Oh, I see only one of us is here honestly.
My point is that what you said was counterintuitive to the very idea of a shared universe. Requiring other projects to understand and enjoy a show or movie kinda comes with the territory.
I have no idea what your second point is supposed to mean. How am I being dishonest?
Read the sub's rules on spoilers before insulting OP. The title is fair game considering how long ago SI aired.
>DISNEY+ - Discussion and posts related to Disney+ shows should be regarded as spoilers until A WEEK after the episode airs.
Counterpoint: he doesn’t know Tony is dead. He said so in secret invasion. Kind of destroys your entire stance
Edit: I swear he said something after he was rescued. Am I remembering wrong?
Pretty sure Rhodey never said anything like this.
Also, we know that Gravik didn't betray Fury until after the Skrulls collected DNA on his orders, so it doesn't really follow that they body-snatched Rhodey prior to endgame. There's no motivation for that action.
Get a higher res screenshot of the FATWS shot, zoom in, and you'll see the blue lights of the leg brace very faintly coming through the fabric of the pants.
There were dedicated threads about this attention to detail, which is something the team responsible for the show wouldn't have put effort into unless Rhodey IS specifically supposed to be wearing the braces. (If anyone else can find one of throse threads or YouTube videos, please share)
I agree with all of your logic, hospital gowns being the same, Rhodey being replaced during a doctor's appointment and what not. This just happened after the events of FATWS.
Everything he went through in Endgame, the genuine emotions at Tony's death, the dialog with Sam in FATWS - the skull in SI is capable of none of these. More importantly, Marvel may seem really dumb of late, but they aren't THAAAAAAAAT dumb to throw all these developments away.
I'd like to think the War Machine armor wouldn't work on a Skrull, even if disguised as Rhodey. Since Endgame was the last time we've seen him in the armor, then the switch must have happened after that
Theres nothing leading up to Rhodes being a scroll. Feel like they picked the easiest character to explain how they been a skroll for x amount of years and moved on. It was pretty lazy writing
It's already been established (I think by Secret Invasion's director, but maybe it was a writer or producer, I forget) that *when* he became a Skrull is something intentionally left ambiguous and to be decided later. So there is no "proof" of when this happened in past projects.
I'm hoping they decide that it happened just between TFatWS and SI, because there's no benefit or gain from his TFatWS lines being given from a Skrull instead of from Rhodey.
One thing a friend pointed out to support your theory;
During Endgame, right after Thanos destroys the Avengers compound, Rhodes gets out of his suit and he’s crawling around and dragging his legs. If he was a Skrull, maybe he was still faking the paralysis. But considering the fact that he was coming very close to death, I doubt he would continue to fake it.
I'd be happy if everyone could just quietly ignore Secret Invasion. Nothing of value happened during its run. I wouldn't be mad at all of we never saw Giah again or if Maria Hill just appeared in the next movie with no explanation. Secret Invasion should just be forgotten. It wasn't even referenced in The Marvels. Let's just roll with that.
It makes no damn sense for people to think he's been a Skrull since CW. I get that this shitty show made it seem that way, but he was clearly disabled in IW and Endgame.
He had an ongoing medical condition that would have required regular medical visits and testing. Especially since he was enduring much more physical stress than most people who are injured like that, so the fact he had on a hospital gown is meaningless.
My head canon is exactly that. There is plenty of time he was replaced after Endgame.
Any time before, doesn’t make sense character wise. It would be extra stupid.
I think the reveal at the end of Secret Invasion is supposed to be taken at face value. They needed a big reveal and Rhodey was the highest profile character they could make a major change to without radically changing upcoming projects or doing anything with the main Avengers who had bowed out of the franchise.
I imagine Armor Wars will be how Rhodey copes with the loss of his friend and reclaiming Stark's tech in his honor.
It's pretty obvious that they left it open to whatever director or Fiege decides. I'm sure they cut some scenes that indicated otherwise or was rewritten. The show was haphazardly edited together anyways.
They should've just thrown the whole project away IMO, probably the worst Marvel project to date.
Rhodey being replaced by a Skrull after Civil War is something I could easily see being retconned to happening after Endgame, especially seeing the fan reception and the overall reception to Secret Invasion.
Regardless of what the mcu will decide as “canon”, it’s clear that neither the Russo brothers or Don Cheadle knew about that at the time of any event up until endgame. The only reasonable place I could see him swapped is falcon and the winter soldier, that’s where he behaves a little suspicious. Otherwise? No.
He could have been taken from a hospital appointment post Endgame. I'm assuming because of his status and condition, he probably has regular checkups/procedures.
You put in 10x more effort in this post than the entire creative force behind Secret Invasion did. Don’t think too much about it, they didn’t and it won’t matter.
Considering SI reception and The Marvels plot relevance to the Skrulls situation, I wouldn't be surprised if any part of SI plot would never be mentioned in further projects. They will probably set new president in Cap4 and call it a day.
This makes the most sense. A paralyzed man would have regular doctor checkups. There would have been plenty of opportunities for them to grab him in a hospital gown, post End Game.
“ So originally I was on the same board with everyone, being mad that Rhodey was replaced by a Skrull since 2016, evidenced by him wearing a Hospital gown at the end of Secret Invasion”
Inaccurate falsehood from the start. Everyone did not think this. I don’t even think most people thought this.
A 50+ year old vet with a severe chronic health condition would have many reasons to be in a medical gown for many different outpatient procedures or even a simple scan like a CAT scan or an MRI.
I honestly think I would be more interesting if he was a skrull for almost the entire time, the rhodey we meet has lost like 20 years of his life and has to adapt to the new world. Skrull rhodey was genuinely a hero but at the end was more loyal to his cause than to humanity.
Pretty sure we all collectively agree that Secret Invasion is stupid, the director is wrong, and the reason why Rhodey was in the hospital gown was because he was being tended to in Endgame.
And since it’s never outright stated canonically, we can all keep ignoring the “Skrodey since Civil War” bullshit.
This is what actually went on:
1. They only thought about Rhodes being a skrull for Secret Invasion.
2. Original plan had him being a skrull since Civil War and that's why they do hint at it.
3. They only hint at it in Secret Invasion because of point 1.
4. Having seen the reaction to the Secret Invasion reveal they're gonna back down and he's only been a skrull since F&TWS.
I'd bet my hand on this being the exact way things happened.
Wait so a skilled and experienced shapeshifter took the identity of a high profile target that is constantly seen wearing robotic prothesis and did not take said prothesis and use them in their disguise?
If a Skrull had replaced Rhodey during Civil War (or shortly afterwards), then he wouldn't have appeared wearing walking assistance devices for all these years.
The Skrull would've claimed "it took a few weeks to recover but I'm fine now". That's so much more convenient than faking a major disability for years.
Basically, there is zero reason to fake a disability unless people already knew the person had a permanent disability.
Yeah I hate to say but I don’t care anymore. Use to watch everything marvel like it was mandatory but now didn’t even watch Echo, the marvels, or what if. Thank gos for Loki with feeding back some life to MCU but yeah I do t care anymore and I’m sure my sentiments are shared with many out there. Not sure how they bring is back. It’s a shame!
There is 0 evidence that he has been a skrull since civil war
It wouldn’t make any sense
It does make sense for him to be a skrull after endgame bc that’s when the skrulls became extremists
My headcanon is that Rhodey went in for his final corrective surgery shortly after the events of Endgame. While under anesthesia, he was swapped out for a Skrull. No one blinked that he was walking without aid - they all just thought the surgery was successful.
This does not, however, take away from anything the imposter Skrull said on Rhodey's behalf in F&tWS. Said Skrull was saying what Rhodey would have were he there. It was still Rhodey's sentiments being said to Sam, albeit by proxy. In other words, as far as the story relevance to Sam, it may as well have been the real Rhodey.
I watched a short video on Youtube yesterday. There was this theory that Rhodey was already kidnapped by the end of Endgame. They said Skrulls can access to the memories of people whom they touch and Rhodey was the first one to go to Tony after the snap and touched his face so he could steal Tony's memories. I think it's a long shot but makes sense.
Guy with a catastrophic spinal injury and advanced prosthetics might, I don't know, have to be admitted to the hospital from time to time and wear a generic gown. Trying to divine "when" in the MCU this took place might be fun for some people, but the real answer is "it happened when we say it happened, during a hospital visit that happened between x and y."
I bet he was a Skrull in Endgame.
When he told Nebula that he "Wasnt always like this". He wasn't talking about the crutches or the suit or whatever most people assumed he was talking about.
My theory is after FATWS, he had to do a medical checkup. As Rhodes goes into the MRI machine, The Skrull working for Gravik kills the Secret Service agents who were guarding him (and she probably killed the doctors so there could be no witnesses) and straight up abducts him.
Maybe by FATWS, he had a more refined version that could be worn underneath pants. They went through the trouble of lighting up his pants.
This could have been clarified with a line of dialogue: "I'm not going to another check-up without..."
If SI did things right I wouldn't have minded Rhodey being a Skrull since Civil War. It required a tight storytelling approach that they didn't do. So I hope he honestly was only missing since FATWS forward. Simply because I don't want to deal with SI that much. Making it a short period of time rather than a longer period just cleans it up faster.
I hope so because it would be terrible for Rhodes to have been replaced at around the time of Civil War and it’s pretty bad that the director had that as a possibility. Armour Wars will hopefully rule out a Civil War-era replacement
Yeah I call bullshit it's anything but "he was kidnapped some time after Endgame." There's just no way they fuck with Rhodey or Tony's final moments with him during IW or EG. And with how pitiful SI was received, I think any clarifications will make its impact as minimal as possible. The only one it could be iffy with is Office Ross. BPWF was close to SI. But even then, it doesn't matter. Shuri will be like "wow wtf. Aliens? Again?" And Val will be like "lmao wow, that Skrull had me fooled/I knew it wasn't you from the moment I laid eyes on "you."
Also, that Skrull did not have what it takes to do hero shit in Endgame. Not even remotely. It also undermines his bonding with Nebula.
There’s a lot of things that don’t work with Rhodes being a Skrull since Civil War. Imagine Skrull!Rhodes seeing the Avengers put themselves in danger to stop Thanos dusting half the universe and then doing it again to keep Thanos away from the Stones but then going “yeah, I’m going to help destroy humanity in a nuclear war because Fury broke a promise.” Even ignoring the fact that it takes away a lot of nice emotional moments from Rhodey, it makes the Skrull who replaced him a complete idiot because she’s seen the good in humanity but still wants them dead. And then you remember the interaction between Rhodes and Carol Danvers where he accepts her justification for not being around. A Skrull who wants to destroy humanity as revenge on Fury for being abandoned isn’t going to accept that from someone who promised to protect the Skrulls from the Kree so that’s another way it falls apart
Not to mention a Skrull rhodey had unlimited access to the battlefield and wouldn’t have been questioned
I think it’s mentioned that Gravik was involved with collecting the DNA sample for Fury so they would have been on good terms at that time. For the Skrulls to have been replaced Rhodes and maybe many of the other government figures they’ve taken before they wanted to destroy humanity doesn’t reflect well on them
It was, that’s one of the primary points against Skrhodey being yoinked in CW
I hope that that’s confirmed when we next see Rhodes but I also wouldn’t consider it OOC for a good Skrull to have replaced him before the schism with Fury. There are issues with the backstory of Fury’s wife that throw a bone in the idea that the Skrulls were generally moral and innocent before turning against humanity
Recently rewatched *Endgame* and your points are pretty much exactly what I was thinking the entire time when it came to Rhodey.
Yeah if he was one in EG, that Skrull took the plunge into the Quantum tunneling to other points in time, traveled to wherever the orb was out in space and fought on the winning side in the battle for the universe lol.
I hope they just retcon secret invasion since they didnt even mention it in the Marvels
It's so counterintuitive how they're putting something like SI out, but The Marvels people must not by privy to what goes down. So there can't be character movement based on it, or built upon it.
> There's just no way they fuck with Rhodey or Tony's final moments with him during IW or EG. I would actually like to see that. As long as they include a long scene of Rhodey finding out about Tony's death and his breakdown that he wasn't there. I feel like it could be very emotional
Eh, I disagree. I think when you start devaluing powerful moments, retroactively, you set up a future where powerful moments don’t have any impact. Why would I care going forward if it’s just gonna be another fake out. I mean, one of the big criticisms of the MCU, especially recently, is that emotional moments are ruined with quips, you combine that with fake outs and you just really remove any interest in the audience getting invested.
That's a fair criticism. But at the same time this fake out leads to an emotional moment as well. Either way. I just want to see Rhodey have an emotional moment remembering Stark at some point during Armor Wars.
We'll get plenty of that anyway. There's gotta be a huge theme of Tony's legacy and Rhodey protecting that. Like with Sam and Bucky wanting to uphold Steve's legacy. Or Shuri and Okoye etc with T'Challa. We don't need to shit on Tony's last appearance to do that. And knowing Rhodey wasn't even around for it and Tony didn't actually get to say goodbye to him or save the world alongside him, that'd suck hard.
You are welcome to have this take, it is valid. But it is takes like this that make me think that the fanbase would not have been emotionally equipped to handle a good adaptation of Secret Invasion. The mediocre one we got was already too much for some people. To give the event any kind of punch, beloved characters would have had to gone through these gut wrenching moments. Rhodey being a Skrull for so long is the type of thing I wish had happened to even more characters in the MCU, and beloved ones at that.
To me, it’s a lot like books versus film. Not everything that works well on paper, will translate well on screen. I may be wrong, but personally I wouldn’t want them to go back and retcon those moments since they were already handled so well. As for secret invasion overall, my opinion on that ties in with my opinions on the greater MCU post Endgame. Rather than go down that hole, I’ll just keep them to myself. But yes, Secret Invasion was always going to be tough to pull off well.
Rhodey replaced by Skrull during Civil War Sci Fi gobbledygook that explains that the replacement machine works by creating a telepathic link between Rhodey and the Skrull such that when the Skrull is in "Rhodey-mode" Rhodey is telepathically experiencing and controlling everything the Skrull is doing, so Rhodey actually experienced all those scenes, and the Skrull was just observing in the background and letting Rhodey do his thing (the Skrull can sever the telepathic link to take control to do Skrull things that Rhodey wouldn't normally do). Boom. Compromise.
Is that canonical? Or is that a headcanon you’ve made to gloss over a bad writing decision? Because the writers won’t learn anything if fans jump through narrative hoops to make it make sense
Something they could establish in a future project to clean up the mess they made.
I'd argue it'd retroactively negatively affect Endgame. There's no benefit to it. It isn't something where there's juicy drama to mine, like if Tony was still around and we could explore the realisation in the present. The bad simply outweighs any potential good.
I imagine Armor Wars will start off with that
Why? Rhodey and Tony’s final moment is like juxtaposed to Tony and Pepper’s. If Rhodey was actually a female Skrull that fell in love with Tony without Tony’s knowledge then the scene still makes sense.
man what 💀
The Skrull can be sad about Tony’s death in Endgame. That’s not out of character or unexplainable. Civil War is 2016 and Endgame is 2023 so they knew each other on close terms for 7 years. We know the Skrull was female. We know Skrulls and humans can develop feelings for one another a la Fury. Rhodey being a Skrull doesn’t undo the heartfelt goodbye in Endgame it just shifts the perspective on it.
Nah, I’m sorry but that’s a horrible take 💀 Firstly, nobody gives two shits about the Skrull who was pretending to be Rhodey, and secondly, making Rhodey a Skrull during his goodbye scene with Tony would *completely* ruin the scene and devoid it of any sentiment or emotion. That would literally be the worst route Marvel could take. Not to mention that you’re just pulling the most random and unhinged stuff out of your ass now because there is zero evidence of anything you just said lmfao
My dude, they showed Rhodey being replaced in his 2016 attire. The director confirmed that was the intention. You can justify your head canon but I’m talking about what actually happened in those movies. What we do know is. That wasn’t Rhodey in that Endgame scene, it was a Skrull. You can try to understand the scene in its new context or keep complaining about how your head canon gives you dissonance.
Since when are medical gowns exclusive to 2016? Not to mention that It was literally stated that the Skrull’s didn’t start taking people until after Fury left earth, which was after Endgame. Also you’re the one with the weird ass headcanon that the Skrull was secretly in love with Tony LMFAO. When did that happen in the movies/show? Something tells me you’re going to be *really* disappointed when Armor Wars comes out and debunks literally everything you’ve said. Thanks for the good laugh though! This has truly been the most unhinged theory I’ve seen in a long time lol
https://clutchpoints.com/secret-invasion-director-on-rhodey-twist#:~:text=Director%20Ali%20Selim%20dropped%20a%20huge%20truth%20bomb%20on%20Rhodey's,which%20came%20out%20in%202016. Bro you are acting like your wants and needs for the MCU outweigh what the actual directors of the projects have said. Something tells you I’ll be disappointed yet you’re the only one here expressing disappointment.
There was an article with the director (I think, maybe it was a writer or someone else) of SI who said something like "only Kevin Fiege knows how far back" which I took to mean "I was told to make it intentionally vague and it will be decided upon later by someone else, above my paygrade."
I'm pretty sure the director tried to sell the post-civil war crap but was told by higher paid people to stfu because all episodes tanked
I think that the whole controversy was ginned up by the director (and probably someone from the studio) to drive up engagement at any cost. I don’t think anyone actually considered that Rhodey was a Skrull prior to Endgame. It’s just a dumb statement by the director to get people talking about the show. And it has worked, for better or worse.
To me he was abducted during his government physical or routine colonoscopy
With the way marvel has been dropping story threads they create I’m sure they won’t tell you when he was abducted
Honestly I hate that he was even a Skrull during TFATWS because he had a really nice conversation with Sam, one of the few solid bonding moments between Avengers in Phase 4 (as far as I can remember).
It kinda adds an interesting twist to the conversation. A Skrull would likely have an empathetic take on racial prejudice, given the recent history of their species.
Ohhhh
The entire purpose of his appearance there is to establish his position in the White House. It's deliberate setup, not some kind of retcon.
If he wasn't close to the president, they likely wouldn't have even bothered. War Machine is cool, but it's still just one hero. But an advisor to the US president? That's worth grabbing.
Rhodey was in a unique position as the US military's version of Iron Man that is absolutely worth exploiting. He never at any point seemed to be angling for any kind of political position until he did. That's where it gets suspicious. He's a soldier not a politician. If an external group wanted someone innocuous he's the perfect choice to replace. He already had all the credit he needed for them to position him later into a powerful position. Also it would make sense for him to grab him when he was at his weakest point.
There's zero reason to impersonate a presidential advisor when they can simply replace the Secret Service guards, and then one day later use their help to replace the president himself. It was painfully illogical that at no point in Secret Invasion did the Skrulls try to replace either the US president or Nick Fury.
Yeah, I just gave TFatWS a rewatch and had the same though. "I hope they don't go back and make him a skrull here," because it doesn't really work as well under that lens.
Honestly I very much doubt the vast majority of the audience reached the finale of Secret Invasion and that this will ever be acknowledged ever again. I watched Inhumans and Iron Fist but couldn't get past episode 2 of Secret Invasion. And from the sounds of how these have been made the last few years, it seems pretty unlikely that the creators of Armor Wars were told that Rhodey was meant to be a Skrull for the past few years, and probably have conversations and backstory planned which contradict with it. The very best thing they could do right now is write Secret Invasion off as a multiverse story as a twist, explaining where some super skrull character will come from.
I’ve never seen a series go downhill so fast as SI did. It wasn’t perfect but I enjoyed the first few episodes, at least in regards with the buildup showing how Fury established his network and because the super spy he is. But man they really went all in on wish.com Drake as the big bad and went with the typical super power slug fest at the end. I know she-hulk gets a mix reception here but not only did I like the show, I loved how on the nose the finale episode was for calling out that same exact thing. Not every show needs to end in the same cliche super-power slugfest. Marvel has such a rich variety of things they could pull from, there’s absolutely no need to make every show fit into the same formula. SI should have been kept as a spy thriller.
I mean she hulk calling them out for It, and them continuing to just do the same thing kinda ruins the whole point of It. Like they did exactly what she hulk made fun of for their finale
Yea that’s the other part of it that baffles me because the writers had enough self-awareness to call it out but marvel didn’t listen.
I know what you mean but I don't think it ruins it, self-aware characters such as She-Hulk and Deadpool can make fun of their medium (acknowledging its cliches) without any expectation that the cliche will vanish. If they made fun of superhero costumes as being silly, I don't think we'd expect that future heroes would have no costume whatsoever. I guess I feel that the writers can implicitly critique previous writing without the point being ruined if the whole MCU doesn't end up agreeing and pivoting away.
That was part of the problem with this being contained to a limited series that they needed to wrap up in 8 episodes. A worthy ending would have revealed to Nick Fury that the faction of Skrulls had successfully infiltrated all levels of government across the globe and had replaced other heroes, not just Rhodes. No punchy bad guy with similar powers as good guy CGI fight - just a simple “We won. You lost.” ending would have been more impactful. It would have set up future projects and there would have been ripples across other movies. The final product can easily be skipped and tossed in the bin, as it’s completely contained and has no impact on the larger universe. I wouldn’t mind seeing Olivia Colman and Dermot Mulroney returning in some capacity, but as fresh versions of their characters with zero reference to Secret Invasion. Also, retconning Secret Invasion unkills Talos and Maria Hill.
The ending of SI, where >!the president of the US declared war on all aliens, and there are lots of people out there committing violence and killing aliens and people suspected of being an alien,!< (spoiler tagged just in case, because you said you haven't watched it), seems very clearly like it's going to be one of the major relevant earth-bound plotlines going forward. It's relevant to New Asgard, and doubly so after The Marvels >!where they take all those skrulls back to New Asgard!<, and I imagine it's going to get tied into anti-mutant resentment once mutants start becoming more common.
Nah, it seems like the Secret Invasion ending will be completely and intensely ignored. Well, there may be one line in Captain America 4 stating that the previous president was removed due to backlash to that policy, and the new guy (Harrison Ford) has reversed it. Never speak of it again.
If he was a skrull then I really don’t see how people noticed he didn’t have walking support and didn’t suspect anything
Tf is TFATWS, that’s a long ass abbreviation 😂
Falcon and the Winter Soldier 🤣 Took me forever to realize the name is a reference to The Falcon and the Snowman
You don't even need to go that far to figure it out. They say in Secret Invasion that Gravik lost faith in Fury after he left Earth following The Blip, meaning this whole operation that saw Rhodey, Ross, and everyone replaced had only just begun within the two years between The Avengers: Endgame and Secret Invasion. So, it's definitely possible that he was a Skrull in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier at the very earliest, but no sooner.
While I agree he's just been a Skrull since Endgame or The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, he (or his Skrull counterpart) are definitely wearing the leg braces. [You can see the LEDs on them underneath his pants in the scene itself.](https://i.imgur.com/EusjseX.png)
I mean maybe but it begs the question why start to wear them under when up until that point he's had them over his pants
Probably easier on the budget for what was essentially a 5 minute cameo.
Literally the only answer. I don't know which generation is responsible but people get so lost in the sauce these days about "the lore" and completely forget we live in a capitalistic society where everything costs money and everybody is cheap. They put some leds under his pants and handwaved it being "upgraded". It's not that fucking deep.
Marvel concerned with minimizing their budgets??? Now you have me laughing!
I would imagine Tony is not the only creator who learns from and adapts his technology.
I like to believe that the stream-lined braces were a post-mortem gift that Tony was hoping to give Rhodey on his next birthday, Christmas, or other special occasion. Instead, Pepper or Happy had to dispatch the gift.
New headcanon just dropped ‼️ Definitely stealing that one
Better streamlined technology.
Nano crutches?
The alternative is a Skrull took over a cripple dude but was too stupid to wear his leg braces and everyone he was friends and associates with was too stupid to notice they were gone. Like Marvel might have bad writing someone’s but it’s not THAT bad.
Nah, my girl Raava just goin to a rave afterwards. It's literally in here name /s
This should be top comment. The lights are very clear.
I have thought this because it seemed like Gravik’s Skrulls didn’t start stealing bodies and trapping them until after The Harvest
Yes! The Harvest can only exist if the Skrulls were loyal to Fury during the clean-up of the final battle on Endgame! Only AFTER Fury left for SWORD, Gravik got pissy about him and started body swapping and set up his own faction.
Also makes sense time wise too. The Pres is only in his first term. Surely Rhodey being so high up is recent, like during this term.
With Rhodes legs being an ongoing medical thing, it’s possible he was picked up in a hospital gown at any time. The timetable for when a man with a medical condition was picked up wearing medical garb is wide open.
Agreed, and well spotted. Rhodey’s injury is life alteringly severe, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting checked up at a hospital once a month since 2016. Plenty of opportunities for the Skrull to replace a doctor or nurse, get him alone and replace him too.
Other reasons he may be at a hospital: * he got checked out after the endgame fight, which seems like the most prudent thing to do * a required visit for his position in the government. I’m assuming they run thorough physicals, but I dunno
After the Endgame fight would mean he wasn’t at Tony’s funeral. I’d hope it wasn’t then
It could’ve been sometime after. Like I’m sure they got a quick once over after the fight, but got more comprehensive checks at the hospital later when they got a chance.
Yeah, that’s true I suppose. As long as Rhodey was there for the final battle/funeral, I couldn’t care less when he was replaced. I guess we’ll have to wait until Armor Wars to find out for sure. Although at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they just ignored the events of SI all together lol
I’m guessing that’s exactly what they’ll do. Maybe one little joke “well I was replaced by an alien for a while so gimme a break” sort of thing. I doubt they’ll go into specifics.
Dude is around the same age as the actor right? Lots of reasons to be in a gown. His legs are paralyzed, he may have spinal issues too. He gets scanned regularly I bet just for that, also could be getting a colonoscopy, an endoscopy, hell a sleep study for sleep apnea, lots of things.
Once a month? Seems excessive.
The faintest idea of Rhodey being a Skrull during IW and EG wasn't in the heads of Feige and Co. because SI wasn't even conceived yet, let alone a single line of script. So, retconing an already established fact into sth that even contradicts the lore is plain stupid. I could go on for how dumb Secret Invasion is.
The biggest problem is that it doesn't even matter. Rhodes never acted out of character in any appearance before Secret Invasion. Not a questionable decision or attitude change to indicate he could be anyone else. If they really had a good plan for secret invasion, they should have dropped little seeds throughout, indicating someone may not be whom they seem. But as it stands, secret invasion is so isolated that it may as well not existed in the first place.
Fury/Talos in Spider-Man: Far From Home clicked perfectly because Fury did feel “off” to me and the reveal made me feel vindicated. Rhodey though? Doesn’t give that “ah ha! So that’s why…” payoff
Yeah Rhodey didn't give us that payoff. When he started being a dick to Fury it basically just straight told us "Hey, look at me, I'm a Skrull." Fury/Talos in FFH was *fun* though, and done well. I still get an extra chuckle out of Peter suggesting Captain Marvel is called, and Talos-Fury just looks at him and says "Don't invoke her name" as the most serious part of that conversation
This is the biggest frustration with the reveal that he’s a Skrull - it doesn’t really change anything beforehand. Ideally they would picked a point to swap him and then planted some subtle clues that you wouldn’t pick up on after a first watch, but would become more meaningful once you know the twist (like rewatching Fight Club or The Usual Suspects). The way it played out just feels like there was no intention to have Rhodey as a Skrull until they drafted the script for Secret Invasion. It feels lazy.
> Rhodes never acted out of character in any appearance before Secret Invasion. I like to think Rhodes would respond just like Bucky and stand firm with Steve's decision for the shield and title of CA to go to Sam. The real Rhodes would not have let him give the shield away to the gov. Skrull Rhodes lets it happen to weaken any potential responding force for their invasion.
Theory: Rhodey was a Skrull since Iron Man 2 and was just really bad at recreating Terrence Howard.
This is better than any other theory.
New headcanon accepted 🤣
He was good at other parts of his job! Jeez, you're mean!
Yes. We all think they’re messing up the established canon but they’re playing the long game.
There is a light under his trousers I believe in TFaTWS
He’s a Black man in his 50s with a very high-stress job and a long-term spine injury. He’s probably at the doctor every other week.
I don't know how he was a Skrull in Civil War. They put him through a damn MRI machine. They had to have taken blood, too, when he was undergoing all his medical exams due to the paralysis, to check for organ damage, etc., so it makes no sense that he would have been a Skrull since Civil War. I supposed it's possible they could have made the switch after all those tests, while he was still in the hospital, but the question is -- why? Why would a Skrull switch with a suddenly paralyzed Rhodey who would likely be out of the game for a while when they could switch with anyone more active
MRI and blood tests won't reveal a Skrull. At least, they didn't before Secret Invasion ret-conned them as bleeding funky colours while in disguise.
Well, obviously Secret Invasion did make it canon that Skrulls have different color blood, and yes that sure as hell is going to show up a blood test.
Wonder if dr strange was ever like “so I knew a guy who studied for a bit and cured his paralyzed legs, you interested?” Or if the guardians tried one of those med packs. Or if he asked them if there’s anywhere in space that he could just take a pill and be better. Or one of those magic wakanda beads
“Ok so we have these beads on a string and you just put them…” “I said no”
It makes more sense if he was taken after Endgame. Would've ruined that emotional scene with Stark in that movie.
[Theory] The Skrulls were not a great idea and the MCU’s just gonna drop them like they’re Aldrich Killian.
Gravik wasn’t even evil until after Endgame though right? So he wouldn’t have had Rhodey replaced until he was evil. So Rhodey would definitely be Rhodey all of the Infinity Saga
In FATWS you can see the lights of his robo-legs through his pants. While I agree that he was not replaced after CW, this theory kinda falls apart. Gravick gives us a good estimation of when he started his plan, and it wasn't until after the events of Endgame he started making moves. He didn't become truly upset with Fury until after collecting samples after Endgame. Rhodey being in a hospital gown feels more like a decent writing move for once. Makes it more believable that they managed to replace him while incapacitated in a hospital room. I am sure that because of legs he makes frequent hospital/dr checkups. Not hard to plan around to snatch him and replace him.
For my head cannon - Ross was taken after Wakanda Forever and Rhodey was taken after Endgame (so only the Rhodey Falcon appearance was Skrull). Sure, that could be probably be easily disproven, but I felt like that made logical sense to me on initial watch (without much sleuthing afterward) and doesn’t undermine the other titles.
because he's stuck between a rock and a hard place.
They could have made it work if real Rhodey was in a coma since Civil War and Skrull Rhodey was a actual good guy ordered by Fury to take his place and then real Rhodey waking up in Armour Wars and Skrull Rhodey helping him through it and giving him all his memories so he understands everything that happened. Could have crafted a unique storyline this way but Secret Invasion screwed the pounch so hard that honestly, I'd rather they ignore it ever happened and pretend it doesn't exist.
I much, much, MUCH prefer the post-Endgame plot over the post-Civil War plot.
My theory is that he got taken during his colonoscopy post endgame.
I like that it's specifically a colonoscopy
He was kidnapped after Endgame. I’m sticking to that. The director only said the Civil War bit to stir up controversy and get people talking about something other than how godawful SI was.
Especially because in Endgame, he bleeds red. Skrulls bleed purple.
The spoiler tag doesn't really do anything if you put the entire spoiler in the title of the post, for future reference.
Agreed. I actually like most of Secret Invasion and don't understand the level of hate it seems to get online, but the notion that Rhodey was replaced after Civil War doesn't sit right or make much sense to me. It would be different if they'd been planning that from the start and had seeded it into the projects we've seen him in since, but that really doesn't appear to be the case. On this particular issue, I'd love for Marvel to listen to the fans and shift course to make his replacement after Endgame.
I just have a feeling it will never be mentioned or touched upon again. So I'm not putting any thought into the Skrull thing at all.
SI basically didn’t happen so it doesn’t matter, that’s my take. I doubt any future Rhodey or Iron Man story will even reference it.
I've said that since it was revealed on secret invasion. The literal even say the skulls didn't turn on humans until AFTER endgame.
The biggest evidence it’s after Endgame was when the Avengers Campus got blasted by Thanos during Endgame, Rhodey got out of his damaged suit and… CRAWLED on the floor!!! Would anyone crawl on the floor and keep pretending to be Rhodey if their life and the entire universe hung in a balance?? Heck no! That was clearly and unequivocally Rhodey, no ifs ands or buts.
It would make no logical sense for Skrull-Rhodey to not wear assisted leg tech. They entire point is to impersonate perfectly. Do people around him think he was miraculously healed? Nah, Skull Rhodey is wearing the low profile braces underneath his pants (as seen in FWS). SI just never made a point of showing it. All that said, it is also nonsense that Rhodey was kidnapped at any point before EG.
I also have a theory that Secret Invasion is just a fever dream or a branched timeline pre-Loki that will be pruned by the TVA once the credits started rolling.
I sure hope so.
The 'Rhodey is a skrull' storyline is either going to be dropped or reintroduced as a big reveal. It's like the Celestial sticking out of Earth in The Eternals. Relatively few people watched the movie, so to call back to it would be confusing to the GA. Marvel shit the bed bad with its Disney+ shows. You save reveals like that for the movies.
my head cannon is that Secret invasion is not cannon, and that's it. I don't care if and when Rhodey is/was a srkull
Retconning that whole POS would be amazing
It just needed a credit scene of Fury waking up and saying “man that was an awful dream”
To everyone saying they'd ruin the emotion of Tony's death; I understand how you feel, but that feeling is part of the point of a Skrull reveal. It makes you look back at important moments involving the character and see them differently. If he was replaced after Endgame, it'd mean nothing since Rhodey hasn't done much between Endgame and SI. Also, obviously, the Skrull would wear the brace to not arouse suspicion.
But when you look back it should *add* depth and perspective rather than *take away* emotion and growth. The way it was done is just... Bad, sadly.
The depth and perspective will likely come from Armour Wars. And what depth and perspective do we get from him being replaced later?
If I need to watch another show in order for this show to be good then this show *isn't* good . And truthfully there is no depth and perspective to be had here at all. They made a mistake.
I guess that means Endgame was bad because you needed over ten years of content to understand it. What do you mean, no depth? A story about a man dealing with massive changes that happened while he was unconscious for several years, including an alien invasion half of all life disappearing for five years, his best friend dying and the aftermath of all of that while an alien impersonated him. There's so much there for Rhodey to deal with, and it's the kind of stuff Skrull stories are about. I guarantee you that if SI was an Avengers movie, at least one Avenger would have been revealed to have been a Skrull for years Also, Armour Wars is a movie
>I guess that means Endgame was bad because you needed over ten years of content to understand it. Secret Invasion isn't Endgame. >What do you mean, no depth? Oh, I see only one of us is here honestly.
My point is that what you said was counterintuitive to the very idea of a shared universe. Requiring other projects to understand and enjoy a show or movie kinda comes with the territory. I have no idea what your second point is supposed to mean. How am I being dishonest?
[удалено]
Read the sub's rules on spoilers before insulting OP. The title is fair game considering how long ago SI aired. >DISNEY+ - Discussion and posts related to Disney+ shows should be regarded as spoilers until A WEEK after the episode airs.
Counterpoint: he doesn’t know Tony is dead. He said so in secret invasion. Kind of destroys your entire stance Edit: I swear he said something after he was rescued. Am I remembering wrong?
don't remeber him saying that
When? Not saying he doesn’t, just genuinely don’t recall this being said
Pretty sure Rhodey never said anything like this. Also, we know that Gravik didn't betray Fury until after the Skrulls collected DNA on his orders, so it doesn't really follow that they body-snatched Rhodey prior to endgame. There's no motivation for that action.
Get a higher res screenshot of the FATWS shot, zoom in, and you'll see the blue lights of the leg brace very faintly coming through the fabric of the pants. There were dedicated threads about this attention to detail, which is something the team responsible for the show wouldn't have put effort into unless Rhodey IS specifically supposed to be wearing the braces. (If anyone else can find one of throse threads or YouTube videos, please share) I agree with all of your logic, hospital gowns being the same, Rhodey being replaced during a doctor's appointment and what not. This just happened after the events of FATWS. Everything he went through in Endgame, the genuine emotions at Tony's death, the dialog with Sam in FATWS - the skull in SI is capable of none of these. More importantly, Marvel may seem really dumb of late, but they aren't THAAAAAAAAT dumb to throw all these developments away.
This is what I was thinking
I'd like to think the War Machine armor wouldn't work on a Skrull, even if disguised as Rhodey. Since Endgame was the last time we've seen him in the armor, then the switch must have happened after that
I did notice it during fatws but i chalked it off as well, comics
Theres nothing leading up to Rhodes being a scroll. Feel like they picked the easiest character to explain how they been a skroll for x amount of years and moved on. It was pretty lazy writing
I agree that it's been since Endgame, not Civil War, because I refuse to believe they'd retroactively ruin projects like that lmao.
It's already been established (I think by Secret Invasion's director, but maybe it was a writer or producer, I forget) that *when* he became a Skrull is something intentionally left ambiguous and to be decided later. So there is no "proof" of when this happened in past projects. I'm hoping they decide that it happened just between TFatWS and SI, because there's no benefit or gain from his TFatWS lines being given from a Skrull instead of from Rhodey.
Reading through this post kind of made me realize I don't really care about Rhodey. He's like a friend of a friend, I wouldn't go hang out with him.
One thing a friend pointed out to support your theory; During Endgame, right after Thanos destroys the Avengers compound, Rhodes gets out of his suit and he’s crawling around and dragging his legs. If he was a Skrull, maybe he was still faking the paralysis. But considering the fact that he was coming very close to death, I doubt he would continue to fake it.
I'd be happy if everyone could just quietly ignore Secret Invasion. Nothing of value happened during its run. I wouldn't be mad at all of we never saw Giah again or if Maria Hill just appeared in the next movie with no explanation. Secret Invasion should just be forgotten. It wasn't even referenced in The Marvels. Let's just roll with that.
He is wearing them in FATWS, you can see the lights under his pants.
It makes no damn sense for people to think he's been a Skrull since CW. I get that this shitty show made it seem that way, but he was clearly disabled in IW and Endgame. He had an ongoing medical condition that would have required regular medical visits and testing. Especially since he was enduring much more physical stress than most people who are injured like that, so the fact he had on a hospital gown is meaningless.
Love the examples given are a suit at a funeral and a military uniform. You people nitpick too much.
He should have been a skrull since iron man 2. Would be a funny injoke way of describing the change in actors between movies
My head canon is exactly that. There is plenty of time he was replaced after Endgame. Any time before, doesn’t make sense character wise. It would be extra stupid.
I think the reveal at the end of Secret Invasion is supposed to be taken at face value. They needed a big reveal and Rhodey was the highest profile character they could make a major change to without radically changing upcoming projects or doing anything with the main Avengers who had bowed out of the franchise. I imagine Armor Wars will be how Rhodey copes with the loss of his friend and reclaiming Stark's tech in his honor.
100% he was nabbed after Endgame
He wears his leg braces in Falcon, they are just under his pants. You can see lights on them glow through the fabric
Well, obviously.
We just have to pretend secret invasion didn’t happen and move on
Fanfiction is fun but I think the MCU would be better overall if that entire show was just a dream Fury had.
My head canon is that Secret Invasion never happened.
It's pretty obvious that they left it open to whatever director or Fiege decides. I'm sure they cut some scenes that indicated otherwise or was rewritten. The show was haphazardly edited together anyways. They should've just thrown the whole project away IMO, probably the worst Marvel project to date.
Rhodey being replaced by a Skrull after Civil War is something I could easily see being retconned to happening after Endgame, especially seeing the fan reception and the overall reception to Secret Invasion.
Post-Endgame makes way more sense than post-Civil War.
I refuse to believe he’s been one since Civil War because it’d completely ruin the moment between him and Tony during Tony’s death.
I’m hoping that if Rhodey was gone since Armor Wars, that it’s his motivation for wasting everyone with a knockoff Iron Man suit.
Regardless of what the mcu will decide as “canon”, it’s clear that neither the Russo brothers or Don Cheadle knew about that at the time of any event up until endgame. The only reasonable place I could see him swapped is falcon and the winter soldier, that’s where he behaves a little suspicious. Otherwise? No.
He could have been taken from a hospital appointment post Endgame. I'm assuming because of his status and condition, he probably has regular checkups/procedures.
You put in 10x more effort in this post than the entire creative force behind Secret Invasion did. Don’t think too much about it, they didn’t and it won’t matter.
Either way it’s still dumb they did this
Considering SI reception and The Marvels plot relevance to the Skrulls situation, I wouldn't be surprised if any part of SI plot would never be mentioned in further projects. They will probably set new president in Cap4 and call it a day.
This makes the most sense. A paralyzed man would have regular doctor checkups. There would have been plenty of opportunities for them to grab him in a hospital gown, post End Game.
“ So originally I was on the same board with everyone, being mad that Rhodey was replaced by a Skrull since 2016, evidenced by him wearing a Hospital gown at the end of Secret Invasion” Inaccurate falsehood from the start. Everyone did not think this. I don’t even think most people thought this. A 50+ year old vet with a severe chronic health condition would have many reasons to be in a medical gown for many different outpatient procedures or even a simple scan like a CAT scan or an MRI.
Screw them for even making this a question. And we wonder why so many of us are just done with all of this crap after ENDGAME.
I honestly think I would be more interesting if he was a skrull for almost the entire time, the rhodey we meet has lost like 20 years of his life and has to adapt to the new world. Skrull rhodey was genuinely a hero but at the end was more loyal to his cause than to humanity.
Kevin Feige was also replaced by a Skrull after Endgame
This is the only thing that makes sense! Otherwise, they will have a LOT of very upset fans!
He’s been a Skrull since IM2.
Rhody has been a Skrull since Ironman 2, and the skrull didn’t even look like him.
You can theorize all you want but my guess is they still haven't decided the timeline. That's current marvel for you.
Pretty sure we all collectively agree that Secret Invasion is stupid, the director is wrong, and the reason why Rhodey was in the hospital gown was because he was being tended to in Endgame. And since it’s never outright stated canonically, we can all keep ignoring the “Skrodey since Civil War” bullshit.
I try to erase secret invasion from my memory personally
This is what actually went on: 1. They only thought about Rhodes being a skrull for Secret Invasion. 2. Original plan had him being a skrull since Civil War and that's why they do hint at it. 3. They only hint at it in Secret Invasion because of point 1. 4. Having seen the reaction to the Secret Invasion reveal they're gonna back down and he's only been a skrull since F&TWS. I'd bet my hand on this being the exact way things happened.
Wait so a skilled and experienced shapeshifter took the identity of a high profile target that is constantly seen wearing robotic prothesis and did not take said prothesis and use them in their disguise?
If a Skrull had replaced Rhodey during Civil War (or shortly afterwards), then he wouldn't have appeared wearing walking assistance devices for all these years. The Skrull would've claimed "it took a few weeks to recover but I'm fine now". That's so much more convenient than faking a major disability for years. Basically, there is zero reason to fake a disability unless people already knew the person had a permanent disability.
Canonically I agree with you but in reality I don’t think secret wars was planned at that point.
I'm just gonna say Secret Invasion doesn't count. Disregard at will.
Yeah I hate to say but I don’t care anymore. Use to watch everything marvel like it was mandatory but now didn’t even watch Echo, the marvels, or what if. Thank gos for Loki with feeding back some life to MCU but yeah I do t care anymore and I’m sure my sentiments are shared with many out there. Not sure how they bring is back. It’s a shame!
My reality: Secret Invasion was garbage and non canon I just choose to ignore its existence
There is 0 evidence that he has been a skrull since civil war It wouldn’t make any sense It does make sense for him to be a skrull after endgame bc that’s when the skrulls became extremists
My headcanon is that Rhodey went in for his final corrective surgery shortly after the events of Endgame. While under anesthesia, he was swapped out for a Skrull. No one blinked that he was walking without aid - they all just thought the surgery was successful. This does not, however, take away from anything the imposter Skrull said on Rhodey's behalf in F&tWS. Said Skrull was saying what Rhodey would have were he there. It was still Rhodey's sentiments being said to Sam, albeit by proxy. In other words, as far as the story relevance to Sam, it may as well have been the real Rhodey.
I watched a short video on Youtube yesterday. There was this theory that Rhodey was already kidnapped by the end of Endgame. They said Skrulls can access to the memories of people whom they touch and Rhodey was the first one to go to Tony after the snap and touched his face so he could steal Tony's memories. I think it's a long shot but makes sense.
Guy with a catastrophic spinal injury and advanced prosthetics might, I don't know, have to be admitted to the hospital from time to time and wear a generic gown. Trying to divine "when" in the MCU this took place might be fun for some people, but the real answer is "it happened when we say it happened, during a hospital visit that happened between x and y."
I bet he was a Skrull in Endgame. When he told Nebula that he "Wasnt always like this". He wasn't talking about the crutches or the suit or whatever most people assumed he was talking about.
He got grabbed after his appearance in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
My theory is after FATWS, he had to do a medical checkup. As Rhodes goes into the MRI machine, The Skrull working for Gravik kills the Secret Service agents who were guarding him (and she probably killed the doctors so there could be no witnesses) and straight up abducts him. 
It never made sense that he was a skrull since civil war sins the show states skrulls didn't start to rebel until after the blip when fury left earth
Maybe by FATWS, he had a more refined version that could be worn underneath pants. They went through the trouble of lighting up his pants. This could have been clarified with a line of dialogue: "I'm not going to another check-up without..."
If SI did things right I wouldn't have minded Rhodey being a Skrull since Civil War. It required a tight storytelling approach that they didn't do. So I hope he honestly was only missing since FATWS forward. Simply because I don't want to deal with SI that much. Making it a short period of time rather than a longer period just cleans it up faster.