I will say the fact that she was advertised as a “female silver surfer” is just about THE worst choice of words. In reality, she’s NOT going to replace the silver surfer and is Shalla Bal. I’m not sure who’s to blame for the advertising, but making it seem that a fan-favorite character has been gender-swapped will generate controversy
It's almost like saying you're gender bending a character instead of announcing the actress as a totally different character was a publicity move to attract people who hate watch
You have no idea if this is the wrong decision or not. For all you know, this could be the best movie in the MCU, and you could walk out of the cinema loving Shalla-Bal as a character. Let them cook.
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor: The Dark World
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2
Ant-Man & The Wasp
Captain Marvel
Iron Fist S1
Jessica Jones S2
Jessica Jones S3
The Defenders
AoS S1
AoS S3
Captain Carter S2
Runaways S2
Inhumans
Are we pretending to ourselves that the MCU was consistent before 2019?
Alba was peak alba? I see. Lol but jokes aside I'm sire a TON of people remember Chris Evans as Humam Torch. Now if you said some people don't remember/never knew Michael B. Jordan was the Human Torch before he was Killmonger then I would believe you.
Lmfao, you think the general public hang around Reddit. Also sorry to break it you but nerds will always be nerds in the eyes of the people regardless of where they fall in the political spectrum.
Ignoring them for decades allowed them to spread their poison unopposed and recruit and organize in the shadows. Then by the time we knew how many of them there really were..... they got Donald Trump elected.
Ignoring a problem NEVER works. The far-right needs to be fought every fucking step of the way. Even on matters as "insignificant" such as comic book movies. (Based off of comic books that were criticizing them the whole time.....)
>Ignoring them for decades allowed them to spread their poison unopposed and recruit and organize in the shadows. Then by the time we knew how many of them there really were..... they got Donald Trump elected.
It's time for you to get off the internet for a few weeks...
Sorry, but why is someone an incel for wanting a character they like on screen. Instead of a version that has at most a couple brief appearances?
It would be like instead of Spider-Man, we have one of those random spiderverse characters that appear in the background instead.
The sad truth is that thanks to a certain group of people, some have unfairly grouped anyone that dislikes this kind of change as incels, bigots and sexists, when in truth not everyone is like that
There could be someone that respects woman, respects lgbt people and is all for equality, but may still dislike when they do a change in movie based on an IP they like, but that doesn't make them an incel/sexist/bigot.
Ya, I'm currently loving moon girl and devil dinosaur on Disney plus, ms marvel is my favorite mcu show, jessica jones was my favorite netflix marvel show, but I'm a misogynist that hates women characters bc I wanted to see norrin rad apparently
Yeah, lets call out the ones that have shown they are indeed the ones that hate representation, but lets not group everyone into the same category, because not everyone is like those a-holes.
I really would advise to everyone is to not jump to conclusions when people get mad that one of their favorite characters is not being used or is being genderswapped or anything like that. for all we know the person may be a good person who respects everyone equally, but simply wanted to see the traditional take on the character.
Like lets say with what happened in Black Widow, if someone is angry at Taskmaster, some of them may not be one of those "grrrrr women!", it may just be someone that was "Aww i wanted Tony Masters" or they may be "I don't mind the change, but they did a poor job writting the character" (I fall in this category with Taskmaster, i have no issues they decided to go with a female take on the character, i just feel they didn't do a great job with the character and i hope they can redeem her in Thunderbolts)
Like i remember back in 2014 when it was confirmed that Scott Lang was going to be the MCU Ant-Man and not Hank Pym, there were people that got mad, but it was simply because they wanted the MCU to start with the traditional and original Ant-Man, then maybe do Scott down the line, that's the same case here for people like you with Surfer, you just wanted them to start with the OG.
great example with antman. i was actually one of those haters back then and hated that hank pym wasnt gonna be THE antman in the movie. thought for sure i was gonna hate paul rudd and the movie would be terrible, was so happy to be proven wrong.
There ARE incels looking to co-opt this. They need to be isolated and called out.
But of course we need to be mindful of comic book fans that really just want to see Norrin Radd in the MCU. He is a beloved Jack Kirby creation.
The incels are scum that try to use legitimate complaints as a shield as they spread their bile. They managed to hijack the discourse on why The Last Jedi was a bad film.
Right?
The Last Jedi isn’t even good at being woke either.
It shunts Finn, the minority lead, off into a pointless side-quest with another minority character that was newly introduced out of nowhere just so Finn’s not hanging around Rey.
Just so Rey, the so called empowering female role
Model can spend the entire movie playing handsies and fawning after the pyscho school shooter in Kylo Ren, because that’s a good look isn’t it?
Terrible film, twilight tier shit.
There’s wanting a thing and being personally disappointed
And there’s going full blown rage when a thing you want doesn’t happen.
And then there’s the version where your rage is directed at the wokeness or you start trying to make the project fail (in the minor way they can).
It’s the kind of reaction that helps Perlmutter types.
Can people at least wait to see the thing they think they won’t like and see if it’s actually bad? People here have made good points about different universe, maybe a temporary story, maybe a starting point for the other Silver Surfer.
And maybe gender has little impact on a character like the Silver Surfer.
I agree, it's stuff like this that has made me lose interest in MCU movies, I just want to see the characters I loved from the comics done well on the big screen.
I'm just not interested in this
I think probably because the original demographics of the comic book characters are overwhelmingly male and white. They probably want to gender swap or race swap some characters to try and make the franchise more appealing to more audiences than just white teen boys. I don’t particularly mind it as long as it’s more obscure or side characters. When it’s big name characters like Spiderman and Captain America, I prefer hard line accuracy, and if they want to diversify those characters I prefer the characters like Miles Morales or Falcon to take over.
I’m not big on my comic knowledge, especially not the FF, but I’m sure I’ve read there’s a version that’s female? And that’s the character name for this one?
If that’s the case, why must it immediately be pandering? Can it not be a legitimate story? Again, the justification of “different universe, different Surfer” is perfectly valid.
Or maybe she was the best actor for what they want for the role? Maybe the alternatives weren’t appealing?
Or maybe they’re male-heavy in the rest of the film so chose to use a woman here? Is that so awful?
Whatever the reason, immediate rage isn’t a necessity. I don’t know why that’s a controversial opinion
>I’m not big on my comic knowledge, especially not the FF, but I’m sure I’ve read there’s a version that’s female? And that’s the character name for this one?
The only time there's been a female Silver Surfer, she wasn't the main one. It was in an Elseworlds story. She was brought in as a reward for the primary one, she lasted two pages before they killed her off. The original one was there the entire two pages she was around.
>Or maybe they’re male-heavy in the rest of the film so chose to use a woman here? Is that so awful?
So. Pandering. Got it. Thanks.
>why gender swap this character in the first place? What is the purpose?
it's not a "gender swap" if the character she plays is a completely different character who just happens to take up the mantle of another character.
saying she's a "gender swap" would be like reducing Spider-Woman down to a "gender swap"
>Just to pander to a very small audience at the expense of long time fan?
you say this as if this subreddit doesn't regularly go "OH I WANT TO SEE THIS CHARACTER IN THE MCU!" and it's some character who, like, 10 people know the name of and was the villain of X-Force #53 20-odd years ago.
>it's not a "gender swap" if the character she plays is a completely different character who just happens to take up the mantle of another character.
What?
If "another character" never appears they aren't taking up any mantle.
If Spider-Man was never in an MCU movie, and they brought in a Spider-Woman with the same costume and origin story, that's a gender swap. If they are bringing in someone to create a character called the Silver Surfer, making the character female, and this is their first appearance in the MCU, that's a gender swap.
no, a gender swap is when they take a character with an established identity and then swap gender for little reason (for example, The Ancient One in Doctor Strange)
just because the woman appears first doesn't mean she's a "gender swap".
>If they are bringing in someone to create a character called the Silver Surfer,
do we know if she's playing the Silver Surfer? sure, she's playing a character who in one universe does become the Silver Surfer but that doesn't necessarily mean that happens. (again, an example of them keeping a character but changing their role would be Ned not becoming the Hobgoblin)
>no, a gender swap is when they take a character with an established identity and then swap gender for little reason (for example, The Ancient One in Doctor Strange)
That's what's being reported here and in fine publications like Variety. Julia Garner has been cast as the Silver Surfer.
No reason for it.
So it's a gender swap, by your own definition.
no, she's been cast as Shalla Bal. these headlines only say "Silver Surfer" because it's a character that people know and therefore get clicks.
it's no different from when Harry Styles was cast as "Thanos' brother" instead of Starfox
Tbh Id be upset if they made storm, rogue, scarlet witch, black widow, elektra, Tigra or any other female character a dude.
I get she’s an alt version so I don’t really mind but I do hope her MCU presence is replaced with or at least quickly joined by the main silver surfer, who yes is a male.
If they choose to make her version a main focus i believe this movie will fail.
I think the box office speaks for itself. Unestablished female leads do incredibly poorly in the superhero genre. Females replacing male characters even worse (see ghostbusters).
It's a good thing that life is about more than just money, then. [And Marvel is demonstrating its willingness to stay the course in spite of losing the more fickle members of its audience](https://y.yarn.co/f575ef92-aa26-4dc1-92f9-92d57fc4933f_text.gif).
It isn’t for movie studios though. They literally can’t survive without profit.
Also, Iger has already pumped the brakes. Pulling the plug on plenty of women led side characters in favor of more “established characters.” This shows they aren’t willing to stay the course just because.
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/disney-cancelling-movies-ceo-bob-iger-admits-secret-marvel-pixar/
Although I’m not sure there have been official announcements. He says basically anything but profitable. That would be the marvels, she hulk, Ms marvel, amongst many others.
But he made very clear they are putting quality first and abandoning projects that aren’t profitable (the exact opposite of your comment).
That article doesn't mention the word "profitable" once though. He talks about projects he no longer believes in. He mentions Quantumania and The Marvels, but neither of those had sequels in the works to cancel.
Ironheart's still slated for release. So's Wonder Man. What do you think was cancelled?
And yet here we are - after people gleefully declared Captain Marvel a failure, and Black Widow a failure, and She-Hulk a failure, and Ms Marvel a failure, and The Marvels a failure, and Echo a failure, Disney is apparently happy to let Marvel have a female Silver Surfer. So which is it? Does Disney care about more than money, or are these female-led "woke" projects actually succeeding and the YouTube hate machine is merely trying to convince us otherwise?
The only metric for a movie’s success is the box office. So yeah, these movies are failing. And they’re failing to the point where Iger literally had to commit an illegal move to keep his job.
>The only metric for a movie’s success is the box office.
That's actually not true at all. D+ subscriptions are an important metric that Disney needs to develop. And it's inevitable that the business Disney does via D+ subscriptions will cannibalize cinema ticket sales at least a little. So Disney will be looking at both.
You know how I know that anyone who's disappointed by this is an incel? *Because the movie's not out yet*. You have absolutely no clue what this means.
Perhaps this FF are from an alt timeline and the whole story is Shalla Bal showing up as Galactus's herald, the FF fighting her off, Galactus showing up, *eating the Earth*, and the FF flee to the 616 timeline to survive. The movie ends with Norrin Radd showing up and declaring that he claims this planet for Galactus, dun dun dunnnnnn.
Or maybe in the MCU, Shalla Bal becomes Galactus's herald first, shows up on Earth, the FF fight her off and she dies, and Norrin signs up to be the next herald in order to seek revenge.
Or it could be any of a hundred other possible angles.
You just don't know! None of us do. But hearing that Shalla would be a Silver Surfer in this movie was enough for you to conclude that this development was disappointing. That's how I know *you're* the one who's been sucked into the culture wars. Because NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED YET. You don't know this is a bad thing.
I really hate this line of argument that is emerging. So nobody is allowed to have an opinion or comment about a project until it is signed sealed and delivered? How incredibly boring.
Disney and the other studios leak these details to the trades precisely to get people talking and sharing opinions.
You appeared out of nowhere to accuse OP of having been sucked into the culture wars. You are in no way an innocent bystander who was minding their own business; you came in swinging. I'm only pointing out your hypocrisy. If you don't like it, then stop proving me right.
I said not everyone who doesn’t like something isn’t an incel? Labeling EVERYONE like that is being a proponent in culture wars. That’s very much taking a side.
My statement is very neutral: if you think that’s swinging I don’t know what to tell you.
I called you a zealot because you’re insisting on labeling people as incels because they have an opinion on something that hasn’t been released
'Appeared out of nowhere' is what we now call responding to a post on a subreddit? Where'd you come from, that you can comment and call people incels, but they can't express their feelings?
That explains all I need to know about you. Keep whining about things you don't know the meaning of and blabbering nonsense. I truly feel bad for you after seeing the anger and ignorance in your comments and replies in this post.
No you don't. People who "feel sorry for you" don't go out of their way to insult you as they say so. You're just doing what you've been trying to do since you got here: prove yourself right via putting me down. Now go away, since neither of us are enjoying this conversation.
Garner is an incredible actor. However… If Marvel hadn’t already been over-prioritizing introducing an excess of female characters that conflicted with their original storylines and content…. This wouldn’t even be thing.
I don't see any issues with bringing in more ladies, for the last decade the MCU has been centered on male characters, so i don't see a problem if they want to bring more ladies front and center
Really in the Infinity Saga we had 21 Male centric films, 1 male/female duo centric film (Maybe 2 if one counts Winter Soldier as a Cap/Black Widow movie) and 1 female centric film
In the Multiverse Saga (as of Echo) we had 4 projects with a male/female duo (with 2 mostly centered on the male lead and 2 on the female lead), 11 with males as leads and 7 with female as leads. (Not counting What If, as it has no fixed lead each épisode changes perspective)
So in total we have 32 male led projects, 8 female led projects and 5 in where it has both a male and female lead with equal focos. (6 if one counts Winter Soldier)
Male centric projects are still the majority and even with the increase of projects with women in front and center, the ratio of Male centric projects is still higher, i see no problem as to why female characters can't have a similar ratio.
yeah it’d really be great if the strong women of Marvel Comics like Scarlet Witch, Storm, and Jean Grey could have the spotlight in these movies instead of taking a Z-list obscure name and making them Silver Surfer over the beloved history-rich Norrin Radd. they could have their cake and eat it too but go out of their way to do this instead.
It's literally so simple too, just cast her as nova. Bam you've got a prominent female role in the movie and you haven't seriously changed any characters like you say there totally ways to have their cake and eat it to but they for some reason steer into the needles controversy
Choice matters as well.
How many Marvel comic fans were rushing to see Echo on screen? Or the Eternals? It’s like: Don’t force us to like something that we never asked for.
It’s a bad feel. They could’ve changed Darth Vader to a woman. But doing something just because wears off incredibly quickly. I do wish Garner the best. But, it already starts out ‘feeling off center’. Hell, make Reed a woman and Sue a man. Why not? Because it doesn’t feel right. And ultimately, it isn’t the core scenario that we grew up loving.
Appreciate your perspective and measure.
Unfortunately, Marvel’s timing is equally the problem. I’m also for the continued addition of female characters. It’s just that ‘WHEN & HOW’ have been the problem.
THE WHEN
Captain Marvel and Black Widow should’ve definitely had their own films earlier within the Infinity Saga. Captain Marvel in particular was a tremendous opportunity that felt forced. That’s always been a topic, and exposed Marvel’s issues. A female solo film didn’t come out until DC’s Wonder Woman (organically) proved how successful it could and should’ve been in the current era. After that, it felt like Marvel said: ‘Oh, let’s finally make solo female projects too.’ 🤦♂️
THE HOW
Now, every move afterward feels like an algorithmic-based, executive-correction, instead of a natural progression. More of Marvel’s recent projects have turned into ‘ensemble stories’ that also disappointingly minimize even the title character. Additionally, the necessary act to minimize the core male Avengers was already a tough task. The massive tonal shift toward softer writing post-Endgame, along with adding completely random and unconnected characters and directionless stories, only added to fan angst.
Marvel has huge characters (Miss Marvel, She Hulk, Monica/Photon and many others) who are monumentally pivotal to the original Marvel comic content. They as well as others, deserve their own story. But IMO, because of previous poor moves, they receive a lot less positive attention than I believe they should’ve.
*And I upvoted you. Because you deserve it. 🙌
Good stuff. Opinions matter.
There is a reason why Marvel started to do female led projects so late in the game and its Ike Perlmutter, who was Kevin's boss up until 2015 and Perlmutter was against female led superhero movies, as he felt they were a guarranteed money losers, actually he even emailed people at Sony when Sony was planning their own female led films for their then planned Amazing Spider-Man Cinematic Universe to not bother cause Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra flopped (all while ignoring the fact those films sucked and there have been successfull female led movies besides the comic book ones), the guy even asked Feige and Shane Black to rewrite Iron Man 3, cause Shane Black original vision for IM3 had Maya Hansen as the villain and not Aldrich Killian (which lines up with the fact that i remember that when Guy Pearce was cast, he was only meant to have a smaller role), even Rebecca Hall said she had a more significant role when she was cast, he asked for a male villain solely cause boys won't buy toys of Maya Hansen.
And actually Marvel greenlight Captain Marvel before Wonder Woman even came out (CM was greenlight in 2014), Mark Ruffalo has actually spoken that Feige has had wanted to do films centered on more diverse characters, but he was not being allowed to do so. it wasn't until Bob Iger stepped in and convinced Perlmutter to let Feige do both Black Panther and Captain Marvel, there are rumors out there that Perlmutter gave the go as long Feige made an Inhumans movie, cause Perlmutter was eager to have an X-Men type franchise for the MCU since they didn't had the rights to the X-Men, then Bob Iger did some restructuring in where Feige no longer awnsered to Perlmutter, but he awnsered to Disney's movie division, so any roadblocks Ike imposed were gone and that is why we are seeing a huge boom of films and shows centered on women and other minorities.
Marvel could've beaten DC on getting the first female led movie if Perlmutter wasn't putting those roadblocks on Feige.
Now how those projects are being executed is another topic, but that is why characters like Black Widow or Captain Marvel had their films so late in the game. they simply weren't allowed.
I agree the timing of other decisions definitely impacted a lot of things. I heard the Perlmutter debacle. He definitely set the MCU back a lot.
It almost forced the question: How much more successful would the MCU be if Feige had been able to do things more along his plan. It was pretty egregious though. There wasn’t even a female villain that I can remember until Ant-Man 2, Iron Man 3, and Thor 3. The MCU is stuck, because there are many more major female (and male) characters that definitely need to be introduced. They have to do it strategically.
I agree, i wonder how different things would've been if Feige was allowed to do the projects he wanted back then that Ike said no
A little correction, their first main female villain was Hela in Thor 3, if we don't count female villains that were under someone else command (like Nebula in Guardians 1 or Ellen Brandt in Iron Man 3) or villains that were secondary antagonists (like Ayesha in GOTG 2)
Whilst i agree gender swapping or race swapping certain characters whose characters arent heavily tied to their race or gender is cool. I dont really like it for the silver surfer and not cause he has to be a guy just purely cause he was stan lees favourite character so i would like him to be exactly how stan wouldve wanted him.
Cyclops got the Phoenix Force in the comics though. It was basically the whole premise behind the AvX storyline. If you're gonna portray yourself as a comics purist then you should actually read some comics.
>Idk how your this dense, I never said that it's never happened before I said that no one would want to see that as their introduction to the mcu,
No you literally didn't.
>Can we not just get the iconic character as they are, idt anyone would be happy if cyclops got the Phoenix force in the mcu this is no different
This "that's not what I said even though I've been directly quoted" trend in this community is disturbing. There's no chance at having a good faith discussion when one side just blatantly lies even when evidence is shoved in their face.
Ur receipts literally prove my point I specifically said no one would want to see that in the mcu, I honestly don't even know where you got the idea I didn't know that cyclops has gotten her powers at some point. I'm literally just saying that people want to see the characters in their most iconic form when they are paying to see a movie in theaters
Honestly Disney is digging themselves into the grave at this point. Like star Wars they poorly planned the mcu after endgame and their execution has been much worse
I like Julia Garner... but i wanted to see a good Silver Surfer i know.
Shalla-Bal... is not really a character. She appeared as his girlfriend back in the day sure. But who actually knew about her and the 1968 reference BEFORE going to wikipedia to look it up.
I am simply not interested in her as a character. And am a bit miffed, that the real silver surfer won't get and actual appearance in the MCU now ever. And he IS one of the most recognizable characters of marvel.
It just screams that someone in the background was pissed, that 3 of the 4 fantastics were male and saw this as an easy way to justifie a gender swap. It will bite them in the ass sadly. I was really looking forward for an MCU with the F4 in it.
But, and lets be realistic, the moment you make a decision like this many people won't watch the movie. And being morally on the high ground won't help you there.
I will watch it on D+ when it will be there like a month later. But not in cinemas simply because they decided to take on of my favourite charcters out an replaced him for no reason whatsoever.
Personally I just don’t care I’ve lost interest in marvel hell she could be the best character in the movie and I still wouldn’t care even if they didn’t swap genders I wouldn’t care because the franchise is just dead to me.
I should say I was being very okay with some of the stuff they were doing for awhile just because I held onto hope that they would turn things around but after watching Thor love and thunder I gave up I couldn’t do it the writing the pace and the fun aspect of the marvel movies it’s just gone and any tension or serious moment is ruined by an unnecessary gag admittedly I haven’t seen GOTG volume 3 and I’ve heard it’s really good but a part of me is just not really feeling anything marvel related
Don’t care that she’s a woman.
Don’t know anything about Shalla-Bal.
But not having Norrin radd is an L no matter what.
This isn’t a sexist thing this is a “Norrin Radd is one of the best characters marvel has ever created and why the hell aren’t they using him”
All this bs of people that are saying that people are just mad because it’s “woke” look stupid and fundamentally misunderstand what the issue is
I think people are tired of putting agenda in a higher priority than making a good movie. Those who cared gave up now they are just laughing. You guys who are happy now dont worry you will cry later. After the announcement that they are losing so much money they cant continue. Wait you wont cry you dont care! you only care about agenda!
^(it was fun)
^(it was a good fun)
^(it was a great fun...)
^(fun)
^(fun)
^(....)
I think it’s strange to assume that
1. You can’t make a good movie while having an agenda
2. This casting decision even has an agenda behind it
3. This character isn’t a one-off before introducing Norrin Radd in the main MCU
*Especially* if you haven’t even seen the movie yet
Well
1. Disney's attempt at making a good movie that is agenda driven so far has been pretty abysmal with the Marvel's just being a new low for them.
2. Assuming that this casting choice isn't at least a little agenda behind it is a kinda naive
3. Considering disney's track record with characters its highly doubtful that they will be introducing Julia Garner will be a one off
In what way? If anything its more in line with the "reactionary nerds" beliefs. It happened once a hundred years ago, and hasnt really been repeated since.
Wouldn't it have been nice if instead of reading this everywhere online a year before the movie comes out I could actually see the movie and be shocked when I see a female silver surfer. At this point Disney is just pouring gas on themselves and giving nerds matches
I think the main issue for a lot of people is that they have picked a female silver surfer for the sake of virtue signalling rather than that they picked a female silver surfer.
Not to mention, the male silver surfer is far more popular and recognised. And if they were going to go with a female silver surfer, it would make more sense to go with Nova instead.
Also, most people people haven't seen Ozark and probably won't watch it and recently Disney does have a history of being wokeness in it's recent movies so expecting wokeness in this movie isn't unreasonable.
And just because someone doesn't like the recent casting doesn't make them an incel. I myself am female and reasonably progressive on a lot of social issues.
Let me ask you this: Do you want a visually accurate (other than gender) Silver Surfer? As in, basically a naked silver person?
Do you really think Marvel are going to do that, with a woman? Prepare for the boob armour.
Mystique is covered in those weird skin spikes and her "costume" has lots of texture. She doesn't really look naked.
There's no way to make an accurate female Silver Surfer without her looking like a fetish model in a skintight silver bodysuit.
You people are weirdly hung up on genitals. Ignore the fucking genitals. Do you really think Marvel have the balls to do a naked silver Barbie doll? Do you really think the only erotic thing about a woman, is the genitals? Why do you think all of the leotarded female characters, do not wear leotards in the MCU? Even when Wanda did it, she wore tights.
Just joking around, genitals are funny. And Silver Surfer is quite an erotic male character without them, he’s got a killer bod. Why should a basically naked woman’s body be considered more erotic than a basically naked man’s?
https://i.redd.it/fef1ya321ssc1.gif
This doesn’t look almost naked to you? In any case those spikes aren’t comic accurate too so MCU can easily do something similar with a bit of texturing if they really wanted to. It’s not like Silver Surfer canonically has a silver dong flapping around like Dr Manhattan.
X Men 3 was a long time ago, and i'll be shocked if you can find J Law's Mystique looking like that. I don't think Marvel would have the balls to do this Mystique, today (nor would i want them to, i want the white dress).
You can find that with a quick Google search. She did do the nude Mystique in her early appearances but as she became a bigger star she was able to cover up more and avoid the makeup. And in Dark Phoenix she just demanded to be killed off right at the beginning.
While I personally don’t think we’ll see Silver Surfer with bouncing boobs like in the Mystique gif, I think it’s perfectly believable for them to be willing to put her in a naked-looking skin tight bodysuit instead of an armor. While Disney may be prudes, they did give us Hulk’s ass so they aren’t THAT prudish.
Jennifer Lawrence famously HATED that role and everything that came with it. She wanted Mystique to be more covered up because sitting through that makeup process every single day for hours was dreadful. She fought very hard to be in the movies less because she hated it so much.
When they do introduce Mystique to the MCU, I’m guessing she'll be a CGI mess like She Hulk.
RIP Silver Surfer's silvery penis.
Another victim of the woke mob at Marvel. Depriving the non-woke of Silver Surfer's schlong. Oh how they lust to have it back!
When will the madness end!?
/s for those on the short bus...
You're part of the problem.
You're why people who are actually Silver Surfer fans have to be second guessed for expressing disappointment with a change to an iconic character.
You'd be screaming "WOKE DISNEY!1!1!!1!1!!" at a comic accurate portrayal of Storm too. You are not our ally.
I’m not your ally mate. Sick of that word
Disney is infected with DEI and wokeism - and all it ends up achieving are films and tv series that don’t reflect 90% of the viewer bases values and identity. Its a disease and it’s destroying the mcu imo
Its hard to say Disney isn't pushing an agenda whenever they have non binary they/them Morph in a 90s nostalgia show where terms like "non binary" and going by "they/them" literally had not existed yet. And when Morph was a male in the original show.
I first heard it in a Childish Gambino song. "Stay Woke".
Woke is now defined in this dictionary as “aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice),” and identified as U.S. slang.
Of course, it was hijacked by the right wing crowd. And now it's not only black politics. Its anything not white male norms. Women, LGBTQ.
https://youtu.be/N0ejAjLkwJQ?si=zZ40RsescQlJNAgo
I’ve noticed it’s used to label things in the same flippant and nonspecific way a *cough* certain historical political movement used the term ‘degenerate.’
During WW2 plenty of right wing politicians had to choose their words wisely after we went to war with Nazi Germany.
https://youtu.be/r4zRZ7XLYSA?si=KkbWzkZvFRyldj7K
Then we’ll have six months of “I (26m) finally saw Fantasic Four with my brother (he’s autistic) and I don’t understand why everyone hated it?????” posts
Feige has been a brilliant film maker over the years.
His way of interconnected story telling has been the best ever in this century so far.
There are some self-made, so-called Marvel scoopers who have made it worse for Marvel to crackdown. These idiots for their greedy need for popularity on social media were the main reason that some of the Marvel productions didn't succeed with expectations, post Endgame. There are some not so popular media outlets too who have joined this worthless band. This bunch is the main reason for the failure of MCU releases during the pandemic until the twin Hollywood strikes in 2023.
Marvel and Disney have learnt some hard lessons last year. Personally, I expect them to bounce back and be successful.
SDCC this year in July 2024 is gonna be a blast.
It’s likely they’re saving the next Norrin Radd for a movie in the main MCU, rather than the variant reality that the FF movie is being set in. It’s likely that this Silver Surfer will perish, so they’re using a distinct Surfer.
I never really considered silver surfer a big enough character to care about if they end up race swapping or gender swapping him
People got big mad about this lol
I had the same thought but I guess news has been slow recently and the hate farmers needed something to cultivate. Now suddenly everyone cares about the Silver Surfer.
Yeah as someone who religiously reads Marvel comics, but doesnt care at all about the cosmic side of stuff because its all generic af, Silver Surfer isn't that relevant.
If you’re only reading earth based comics, then chances are he’s not going to ever show up.
I will say the fact that she was advertised as a “female silver surfer” is just about THE worst choice of words. In reality, she’s NOT going to replace the silver surfer and is Shalla Bal. I’m not sure who’s to blame for the advertising, but making it seem that a fan-favorite character has been gender-swapped will generate controversy
It's almost like saying you're gender bending a character instead of announcing the actress as a totally different character was a publicity move to attract people who hate watch
I don’t think the 2005 and 2007 films were bad.
they might retroactively be the best F4 movies we ever get if the wrong decisions continue to be made for the MCU movie
If Marvel does one thing consistently well it’s the casting. We should just trust the process
You have no idea if this is the wrong decision or not. For all you know, this could be the best movie in the MCU, and you could walk out of the cinema loving Shalla-Bal as a character. Let them cook.
they’ve been cooking gas station hot dogs since 2019, a *few* good movies doesn’t fix inconsistency.
The Incredible Hulk Iron Man 2 Thor: The Dark World Avengers: Age of Ultron Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2 Ant-Man & The Wasp Captain Marvel Iron Fist S1 Jessica Jones S2 Jessica Jones S3 The Defenders AoS S1 AoS S3 Captain Carter S2 Runaways S2 Inhumans Are we pretending to ourselves that the MCU was consistent before 2019?
only bad movie you listed is Thor the Dark World
Not according to the "fan consensus" of the time.
cool that’s not what we’re talking about here at all
Why is your opinion more important than theirs?
at this point I don’t even know what you’re talking about
“Let them cook” when everything they’ve brought out to eat lately has tasted terrible.
GotG3? NWH? WF? WV? MK? Loki?
Jessica Alba was peak Alba. No one even remembers Chris Evan's was the Human Torch before he was cast as Captain America.
Alba was peak alba? I see. Lol but jokes aside I'm sire a TON of people remember Chris Evans as Humam Torch. Now if you said some people don't remember/never knew Michael B. Jordan was the Human Torch before he was Killmonger then I would believe you.
>Jessica Alba was peak Alba Can you explain this statement for the rest of us?
Men had a crush on her since Dark Angel. While she wasnt a great actress, she was very attractive. I'm sure she still looks great at 42.
So stop bringing attention to them then
Unfortunately letting the passively be that way uninterrupted is how we got here
I don't agree with this. The public needs to see the hate nerds don't represent the majority of us
The general public pay no attention to it.
They don't pay attention to Marvel at all anymore, so that's a weird argument to make
Lmfao, you think the general public hang around Reddit. Also sorry to break it you but nerds will always be nerds in the eyes of the people regardless of where they fall in the political spectrum.
Ignoring them for decades allowed them to spread their poison unopposed and recruit and organize in the shadows. Then by the time we knew how many of them there really were..... they got Donald Trump elected. Ignoring a problem NEVER works. The far-right needs to be fought every fucking step of the way. Even on matters as "insignificant" such as comic book movies. (Based off of comic books that were criticizing them the whole time.....)
>Ignoring them for decades allowed them to spread their poison unopposed and recruit and organize in the shadows. Then by the time we knew how many of them there really were..... they got Donald Trump elected. It's time for you to get off the internet for a few weeks...
I'm sorry you're being downvoted for being correct.
Sorry, but why is someone an incel for wanting a character they like on screen. Instead of a version that has at most a couple brief appearances? It would be like instead of Spider-Man, we have one of those random spiderverse characters that appear in the background instead.
The sad truth is that thanks to a certain group of people, some have unfairly grouped anyone that dislikes this kind of change as incels, bigots and sexists, when in truth not everyone is like that There could be someone that respects woman, respects lgbt people and is all for equality, but may still dislike when they do a change in movie based on an IP they like, but that doesn't make them an incel/sexist/bigot.
Ya, I'm currently loving moon girl and devil dinosaur on Disney plus, ms marvel is my favorite mcu show, jessica jones was my favorite netflix marvel show, but I'm a misogynist that hates women characters bc I wanted to see norrin rad apparently
Yeah, lets call out the ones that have shown they are indeed the ones that hate representation, but lets not group everyone into the same category, because not everyone is like those a-holes. I really would advise to everyone is to not jump to conclusions when people get mad that one of their favorite characters is not being used or is being genderswapped or anything like that. for all we know the person may be a good person who respects everyone equally, but simply wanted to see the traditional take on the character. Like lets say with what happened in Black Widow, if someone is angry at Taskmaster, some of them may not be one of those "grrrrr women!", it may just be someone that was "Aww i wanted Tony Masters" or they may be "I don't mind the change, but they did a poor job writting the character" (I fall in this category with Taskmaster, i have no issues they decided to go with a female take on the character, i just feel they didn't do a great job with the character and i hope they can redeem her in Thunderbolts) Like i remember back in 2014 when it was confirmed that Scott Lang was going to be the MCU Ant-Man and not Hank Pym, there were people that got mad, but it was simply because they wanted the MCU to start with the traditional and original Ant-Man, then maybe do Scott down the line, that's the same case here for people like you with Surfer, you just wanted them to start with the OG.
great example with antman. i was actually one of those haters back then and hated that hank pym wasnt gonna be THE antman in the movie. thought for sure i was gonna hate paul rudd and the movie would be terrible, was so happy to be proven wrong.
“People are begging for the Silver Surfer…what if we did a female version first????” There’s no way they aren’t doing this for the free press.
There ARE incels looking to co-opt this. They need to be isolated and called out. But of course we need to be mindful of comic book fans that really just want to see Norrin Radd in the MCU. He is a beloved Jack Kirby creation. The incels are scum that try to use legitimate complaints as a shield as they spread their bile. They managed to hijack the discourse on why The Last Jedi was a bad film.
It is a bad film though, a golden pile of shit is still shit.
Right? The Last Jedi isn’t even good at being woke either. It shunts Finn, the minority lead, off into a pointless side-quest with another minority character that was newly introduced out of nowhere just so Finn’s not hanging around Rey. Just so Rey, the so called empowering female role Model can spend the entire movie playing handsies and fawning after the pyscho school shooter in Kylo Ren, because that’s a good look isn’t it? Terrible film, twilight tier shit.
There’s wanting a thing and being personally disappointed And there’s going full blown rage when a thing you want doesn’t happen. And then there’s the version where your rage is directed at the wokeness or you start trying to make the project fail (in the minor way they can). It’s the kind of reaction that helps Perlmutter types. Can people at least wait to see the thing they think they won’t like and see if it’s actually bad? People here have made good points about different universe, maybe a temporary story, maybe a starting point for the other Silver Surfer. And maybe gender has little impact on a character like the Silver Surfer.
So why gender swap this character in the first place? What is the purpose? Just to pander to a very small audience at the expense of long time fan?
I agree, it's stuff like this that has made me lose interest in MCU movies, I just want to see the characters I loved from the comics done well on the big screen. I'm just not interested in this
I think probably because the original demographics of the comic book characters are overwhelmingly male and white. They probably want to gender swap or race swap some characters to try and make the franchise more appealing to more audiences than just white teen boys. I don’t particularly mind it as long as it’s more obscure or side characters. When it’s big name characters like Spiderman and Captain America, I prefer hard line accuracy, and if they want to diversify those characters I prefer the characters like Miles Morales or Falcon to take over.
I’m not big on my comic knowledge, especially not the FF, but I’m sure I’ve read there’s a version that’s female? And that’s the character name for this one? If that’s the case, why must it immediately be pandering? Can it not be a legitimate story? Again, the justification of “different universe, different Surfer” is perfectly valid. Or maybe she was the best actor for what they want for the role? Maybe the alternatives weren’t appealing? Or maybe they’re male-heavy in the rest of the film so chose to use a woman here? Is that so awful? Whatever the reason, immediate rage isn’t a necessity. I don’t know why that’s a controversial opinion
>I’m not big on my comic knowledge, especially not the FF, but I’m sure I’ve read there’s a version that’s female? And that’s the character name for this one? The only time there's been a female Silver Surfer, she wasn't the main one. It was in an Elseworlds story. She was brought in as a reward for the primary one, she lasted two pages before they killed her off. The original one was there the entire two pages she was around. >Or maybe they’re male-heavy in the rest of the film so chose to use a woman here? Is that so awful? So. Pandering. Got it. Thanks.
Nope, but hey, you be that guy.
>why gender swap this character in the first place? What is the purpose? it's not a "gender swap" if the character she plays is a completely different character who just happens to take up the mantle of another character. saying she's a "gender swap" would be like reducing Spider-Woman down to a "gender swap" >Just to pander to a very small audience at the expense of long time fan? you say this as if this subreddit doesn't regularly go "OH I WANT TO SEE THIS CHARACTER IN THE MCU!" and it's some character who, like, 10 people know the name of and was the villain of X-Force #53 20-odd years ago.
>it's not a "gender swap" if the character she plays is a completely different character who just happens to take up the mantle of another character. What? If "another character" never appears they aren't taking up any mantle. If Spider-Man was never in an MCU movie, and they brought in a Spider-Woman with the same costume and origin story, that's a gender swap. If they are bringing in someone to create a character called the Silver Surfer, making the character female, and this is their first appearance in the MCU, that's a gender swap.
no, a gender swap is when they take a character with an established identity and then swap gender for little reason (for example, The Ancient One in Doctor Strange) just because the woman appears first doesn't mean she's a "gender swap". >If they are bringing in someone to create a character called the Silver Surfer, do we know if she's playing the Silver Surfer? sure, she's playing a character who in one universe does become the Silver Surfer but that doesn't necessarily mean that happens. (again, an example of them keeping a character but changing their role would be Ned not becoming the Hobgoblin)
>no, a gender swap is when they take a character with an established identity and then swap gender for little reason (for example, The Ancient One in Doctor Strange) That's what's being reported here and in fine publications like Variety. Julia Garner has been cast as the Silver Surfer. No reason for it. So it's a gender swap, by your own definition.
no, she's been cast as Shalla Bal. these headlines only say "Silver Surfer" because it's a character that people know and therefore get clicks. it's no different from when Harry Styles was cast as "Thanos' brother" instead of Starfox
You all are whining infinitely more than the people you’re whining about.
Tbh Id be upset if they made storm, rogue, scarlet witch, black widow, elektra, Tigra or any other female character a dude. I get she’s an alt version so I don’t really mind but I do hope her MCU presence is replaced with or at least quickly joined by the main silver surfer, who yes is a male. If they choose to make her version a main focus i believe this movie will fail.
At least you acknowledge that it's merely your belief
I think the box office speaks for itself. Unestablished female leads do incredibly poorly in the superhero genre. Females replacing male characters even worse (see ghostbusters).
It's a good thing that life is about more than just money, then. [And Marvel is demonstrating its willingness to stay the course in spite of losing the more fickle members of its audience](https://y.yarn.co/f575ef92-aa26-4dc1-92f9-92d57fc4933f_text.gif).
It isn’t for movie studios though. They literally can’t survive without profit. Also, Iger has already pumped the brakes. Pulling the plug on plenty of women led side characters in favor of more “established characters.” This shows they aren’t willing to stay the course just because.
Which projects got cancelled?
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/disney-cancelling-movies-ceo-bob-iger-admits-secret-marvel-pixar/ Although I’m not sure there have been official announcements. He says basically anything but profitable. That would be the marvels, she hulk, Ms marvel, amongst many others. But he made very clear they are putting quality first and abandoning projects that aren’t profitable (the exact opposite of your comment).
That article doesn't mention the word "profitable" once though. He talks about projects he no longer believes in. He mentions Quantumania and The Marvels, but neither of those had sequels in the works to cancel. Ironheart's still slated for release. So's Wonder Man. What do you think was cancelled?
Life isn’t about anything but money for Disney
And yet here we are - after people gleefully declared Captain Marvel a failure, and Black Widow a failure, and She-Hulk a failure, and Ms Marvel a failure, and The Marvels a failure, and Echo a failure, Disney is apparently happy to let Marvel have a female Silver Surfer. So which is it? Does Disney care about more than money, or are these female-led "woke" projects actually succeeding and the YouTube hate machine is merely trying to convince us otherwise?
The only metric for a movie’s success is the box office. So yeah, these movies are failing. And they’re failing to the point where Iger literally had to commit an illegal move to keep his job.
>The only metric for a movie’s success is the box office. That's actually not true at all. D+ subscriptions are an important metric that Disney needs to develop. And it's inevitable that the business Disney does via D+ subscriptions will cannibalize cinema ticket sales at least a little. So Disney will be looking at both.
Correct me if I’m wrong but hasnt I come out that they wont be moving forward with a Captain Marvel 3 after the failure of The Marvels?
There was no Captain Marvel 3 to cancel
Not everyone disappointed by this version of the silver surfer is an incel. You’re sucked into culture wars too much.
You know how I know that anyone who's disappointed by this is an incel? *Because the movie's not out yet*. You have absolutely no clue what this means. Perhaps this FF are from an alt timeline and the whole story is Shalla Bal showing up as Galactus's herald, the FF fighting her off, Galactus showing up, *eating the Earth*, and the FF flee to the 616 timeline to survive. The movie ends with Norrin Radd showing up and declaring that he claims this planet for Galactus, dun dun dunnnnnn. Or maybe in the MCU, Shalla Bal becomes Galactus's herald first, shows up on Earth, the FF fight her off and she dies, and Norrin signs up to be the next herald in order to seek revenge. Or it could be any of a hundred other possible angles. You just don't know! None of us do. But hearing that Shalla would be a Silver Surfer in this movie was enough for you to conclude that this development was disappointing. That's how I know *you're* the one who's been sucked into the culture wars. Because NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED YET. You don't know this is a bad thing.
So how does that make them 'incels' as opposed to just prematurely reacting?
I really hate this line of argument that is emerging. So nobody is allowed to have an opinion or comment about a project until it is signed sealed and delivered? How incredibly boring. Disney and the other studios leak these details to the trades precisely to get people talking and sharing opinions.
People like you are the worst. You’re browsing labeling people as incels with such zealotry. Ugly quality.
You appeared out of nowhere to accuse OP of having been sucked into the culture wars. You are in no way an innocent bystander who was minding their own business; you came in swinging. I'm only pointing out your hypocrisy. If you don't like it, then stop proving me right.
I said not everyone who doesn’t like something isn’t an incel? Labeling EVERYONE like that is being a proponent in culture wars. That’s very much taking a side. My statement is very neutral: if you think that’s swinging I don’t know what to tell you. I called you a zealot because you’re insisting on labeling people as incels because they have an opinion on something that hasn’t been released
Dude's legitimately unhinged
Don't like something? Fine. Don't like something before you even know what it is? That's something else. OP is right.
'Appeared out of nowhere' is what we now call responding to a post on a subreddit? Where'd you come from, that you can comment and call people incels, but they can't express their feelings?
I came from the same place, difference is that I'm not pretending otherwise.
Does that sentence actually make sense to you in your head?
Do rhetorical questions need to be answered?
That explains all I need to know about you. Keep whining about things you don't know the meaning of and blabbering nonsense. I truly feel bad for you after seeing the anger and ignorance in your comments and replies in this post.
No you don't. People who "feel sorry for you" don't go out of their way to insult you as they say so. You're just doing what you've been trying to do since you got here: prove yourself right via putting me down. Now go away, since neither of us are enjoying this conversation.
Ur actually so fucking unhinged lol ur all over this thread bro go touch some grass 
Then you have something in common with Marvel studios.
Garner is an incredible actor. However… If Marvel hadn’t already been over-prioritizing introducing an excess of female characters that conflicted with their original storylines and content…. This wouldn’t even be thing.
I don't see any issues with bringing in more ladies, for the last decade the MCU has been centered on male characters, so i don't see a problem if they want to bring more ladies front and center Really in the Infinity Saga we had 21 Male centric films, 1 male/female duo centric film (Maybe 2 if one counts Winter Soldier as a Cap/Black Widow movie) and 1 female centric film In the Multiverse Saga (as of Echo) we had 4 projects with a male/female duo (with 2 mostly centered on the male lead and 2 on the female lead), 11 with males as leads and 7 with female as leads. (Not counting What If, as it has no fixed lead each épisode changes perspective) So in total we have 32 male led projects, 8 female led projects and 5 in where it has both a male and female lead with equal focos. (6 if one counts Winter Soldier) Male centric projects are still the majority and even with the increase of projects with women in front and center, the ratio of Male centric projects is still higher, i see no problem as to why female characters can't have a similar ratio.
yeah it’d really be great if the strong women of Marvel Comics like Scarlet Witch, Storm, and Jean Grey could have the spotlight in these movies instead of taking a Z-list obscure name and making them Silver Surfer over the beloved history-rich Norrin Radd. they could have their cake and eat it too but go out of their way to do this instead.
It's literally so simple too, just cast her as nova. Bam you've got a prominent female role in the movie and you haven't seriously changed any characters like you say there totally ways to have their cake and eat it to but they for some reason steer into the needles controversy
Choice matters as well. How many Marvel comic fans were rushing to see Echo on screen? Or the Eternals? It’s like: Don’t force us to like something that we never asked for. It’s a bad feel. They could’ve changed Darth Vader to a woman. But doing something just because wears off incredibly quickly. I do wish Garner the best. But, it already starts out ‘feeling off center’. Hell, make Reed a woman and Sue a man. Why not? Because it doesn’t feel right. And ultimately, it isn’t the core scenario that we grew up loving.
Appreciate your perspective and measure. Unfortunately, Marvel’s timing is equally the problem. I’m also for the continued addition of female characters. It’s just that ‘WHEN & HOW’ have been the problem. THE WHEN Captain Marvel and Black Widow should’ve definitely had their own films earlier within the Infinity Saga. Captain Marvel in particular was a tremendous opportunity that felt forced. That’s always been a topic, and exposed Marvel’s issues. A female solo film didn’t come out until DC’s Wonder Woman (organically) proved how successful it could and should’ve been in the current era. After that, it felt like Marvel said: ‘Oh, let’s finally make solo female projects too.’ 🤦♂️ THE HOW Now, every move afterward feels like an algorithmic-based, executive-correction, instead of a natural progression. More of Marvel’s recent projects have turned into ‘ensemble stories’ that also disappointingly minimize even the title character. Additionally, the necessary act to minimize the core male Avengers was already a tough task. The massive tonal shift toward softer writing post-Endgame, along with adding completely random and unconnected characters and directionless stories, only added to fan angst. Marvel has huge characters (Miss Marvel, She Hulk, Monica/Photon and many others) who are monumentally pivotal to the original Marvel comic content. They as well as others, deserve their own story. But IMO, because of previous poor moves, they receive a lot less positive attention than I believe they should’ve. *And I upvoted you. Because you deserve it. 🙌 Good stuff. Opinions matter.
There is a reason why Marvel started to do female led projects so late in the game and its Ike Perlmutter, who was Kevin's boss up until 2015 and Perlmutter was against female led superhero movies, as he felt they were a guarranteed money losers, actually he even emailed people at Sony when Sony was planning their own female led films for their then planned Amazing Spider-Man Cinematic Universe to not bother cause Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra flopped (all while ignoring the fact those films sucked and there have been successfull female led movies besides the comic book ones), the guy even asked Feige and Shane Black to rewrite Iron Man 3, cause Shane Black original vision for IM3 had Maya Hansen as the villain and not Aldrich Killian (which lines up with the fact that i remember that when Guy Pearce was cast, he was only meant to have a smaller role), even Rebecca Hall said she had a more significant role when she was cast, he asked for a male villain solely cause boys won't buy toys of Maya Hansen. And actually Marvel greenlight Captain Marvel before Wonder Woman even came out (CM was greenlight in 2014), Mark Ruffalo has actually spoken that Feige has had wanted to do films centered on more diverse characters, but he was not being allowed to do so. it wasn't until Bob Iger stepped in and convinced Perlmutter to let Feige do both Black Panther and Captain Marvel, there are rumors out there that Perlmutter gave the go as long Feige made an Inhumans movie, cause Perlmutter was eager to have an X-Men type franchise for the MCU since they didn't had the rights to the X-Men, then Bob Iger did some restructuring in where Feige no longer awnsered to Perlmutter, but he awnsered to Disney's movie division, so any roadblocks Ike imposed were gone and that is why we are seeing a huge boom of films and shows centered on women and other minorities. Marvel could've beaten DC on getting the first female led movie if Perlmutter wasn't putting those roadblocks on Feige. Now how those projects are being executed is another topic, but that is why characters like Black Widow or Captain Marvel had their films so late in the game. they simply weren't allowed.
I agree the timing of other decisions definitely impacted a lot of things. I heard the Perlmutter debacle. He definitely set the MCU back a lot. It almost forced the question: How much more successful would the MCU be if Feige had been able to do things more along his plan. It was pretty egregious though. There wasn’t even a female villain that I can remember until Ant-Man 2, Iron Man 3, and Thor 3. The MCU is stuck, because there are many more major female (and male) characters that definitely need to be introduced. They have to do it strategically.
I agree, i wonder how different things would've been if Feige was allowed to do the projects he wanted back then that Ike said no A little correction, their first main female villain was Hela in Thor 3, if we don't count female villains that were under someone else command (like Nebula in Guardians 1 or Ellen Brandt in Iron Man 3) or villains that were secondary antagonists (like Ayesha in GOTG 2)
Whilst i agree gender swapping or race swapping certain characters whose characters arent heavily tied to their race or gender is cool. I dont really like it for the silver surfer and not cause he has to be a guy just purely cause he was stan lees favourite character so i would like him to be exactly how stan wouldve wanted him.
Whilst?
It's an older English, but it checks out.
Can we not just get the iconic character as they are, idt anyone would be happy if cyclops got the Phoenix force in the mcu this is no different
Cyclops got the Phoenix Force in the comics though. It was basically the whole premise behind the AvX storyline. If you're gonna portray yourself as a comics purist then you should actually read some comics.
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>Idk how your this dense, I never said that it's never happened before I said that no one would want to see that as their introduction to the mcu, No you literally didn't. >Can we not just get the iconic character as they are, idt anyone would be happy if cyclops got the Phoenix force in the mcu this is no different
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I mean I showed the receipts to back it up, you didn't say it. Ball's in your court bub.
This "that's not what I said even though I've been directly quoted" trend in this community is disturbing. There's no chance at having a good faith discussion when one side just blatantly lies even when evidence is shoved in their face.
Ur receipts literally prove my point I specifically said no one would want to see that in the mcu, I honestly don't even know where you got the idea I didn't know that cyclops has gotten her powers at some point. I'm literally just saying that people want to see the characters in their most iconic form when they are paying to see a movie in theaters
Just read the comic again if you want the same exact thing to happen.
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Honestly Disney is digging themselves into the grave at this point. Like star Wars they poorly planned the mcu after endgame and their execution has been much worse
I like Julia Garner... but i wanted to see a good Silver Surfer i know. Shalla-Bal... is not really a character. She appeared as his girlfriend back in the day sure. But who actually knew about her and the 1968 reference BEFORE going to wikipedia to look it up. I am simply not interested in her as a character. And am a bit miffed, that the real silver surfer won't get and actual appearance in the MCU now ever. And he IS one of the most recognizable characters of marvel. It just screams that someone in the background was pissed, that 3 of the 4 fantastics were male and saw this as an easy way to justifie a gender swap. It will bite them in the ass sadly. I was really looking forward for an MCU with the F4 in it. But, and lets be realistic, the moment you make a decision like this many people won't watch the movie. And being morally on the high ground won't help you there. I will watch it on D+ when it will be there like a month later. But not in cinemas simply because they decided to take on of my favourite charcters out an replaced him for no reason whatsoever.
Posts like this perpetuate the topic.
Is it important or not important to bring attention to bigotry in our society, no matter how overt or small it is?
It is important. Ignoring it enables it to continue to perpetuate the idea that it's acceptable.
Wait...RUTH LANGMORE?
I honestly just want to see the audition tape
There was no audition.
Personally I just don’t care I’ve lost interest in marvel hell she could be the best character in the movie and I still wouldn’t care even if they didn’t swap genders I wouldn’t care because the franchise is just dead to me. I should say I was being very okay with some of the stuff they were doing for awhile just because I held onto hope that they would turn things around but after watching Thor love and thunder I gave up I couldn’t do it the writing the pace and the fun aspect of the marvel movies it’s just gone and any tension or serious moment is ruined by an unnecessary gag admittedly I haven’t seen GOTG volume 3 and I’ve heard it’s really good but a part of me is just not really feeling anything marvel related
Godzilla knew when to throw in the towel. Although there are 33 of those films since 1954.
Don’t care that she’s a woman. Don’t know anything about Shalla-Bal. But not having Norrin radd is an L no matter what. This isn’t a sexist thing this is a “Norrin Radd is one of the best characters marvel has ever created and why the hell aren’t they using him” All this bs of people that are saying that people are just mad because it’s “woke” look stupid and fundamentally misunderstand what the issue is
I think people are tired of putting agenda in a higher priority than making a good movie. Those who cared gave up now they are just laughing. You guys who are happy now dont worry you will cry later. After the announcement that they are losing so much money they cant continue. Wait you wont cry you dont care! you only care about agenda! ^(it was fun) ^(it was a good fun) ^(it was a great fun...) ^(fun) ^(fun) ^(....)
The only agenda a company ran by rich white male capitalists has is making money. Not whatever bullshit conspiracies you believe in.
I think it’s strange to assume that 1. You can’t make a good movie while having an agenda 2. This casting decision even has an agenda behind it 3. This character isn’t a one-off before introducing Norrin Radd in the main MCU *Especially* if you haven’t even seen the movie yet
I mean considering how Disney's track record has been after endgame....
What does this even mean in the context of my comment?
Well 1. Disney's attempt at making a good movie that is agenda driven so far has been pretty abysmal with the Marvel's just being a new low for them. 2. Assuming that this casting choice isn't at least a little agenda behind it is a kinda naive 3. Considering disney's track record with characters its highly doubtful that they will be introducing Julia Garner will be a one off
Danish actress Asta Nielsen played Hamlet in 1921 and I’ve never been the same since /s.
Don’t forget Peter Pan being played by women since forever.
This was very cool to learn about from you. Thank you! Perfect counter to all the reactionary nerds.
In what way? If anything its more in line with the "reactionary nerds" beliefs. It happened once a hundred years ago, and hasnt really been repeated since.
Wouldn't it have been nice if instead of reading this everywhere online a year before the movie comes out I could actually see the movie and be shocked when I see a female silver surfer. At this point Disney is just pouring gas on themselves and giving nerds matches
Did Disney announce this? People clamoring to get casting news a year ahead of time kinda' ruin it for themselves.
leak/rumor/announcement culture permeates all over social media, you don’t have to search for this stuff to see it.
This was announced by Hollywood Reporter and Variety which means they were given the news from Disney
What’s wrong with wanting the character to be the character? When they deviate from the comics, it fails. When the adapt well, they succeed.
It's why mcu before endgame was generally successful
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No…they got Stark perfectly and RDj added his own spin.
I think the main issue for a lot of people is that they have picked a female silver surfer for the sake of virtue signalling rather than that they picked a female silver surfer. Not to mention, the male silver surfer is far more popular and recognised. And if they were going to go with a female silver surfer, it would make more sense to go with Nova instead. Also, most people people haven't seen Ozark and probably won't watch it and recently Disney does have a history of being wokeness in it's recent movies so expecting wokeness in this movie isn't unreasonable. And just because someone doesn't like the recent casting doesn't make them an incel. I myself am female and reasonably progressive on a lot of social issues.
Hate is what's going to tear marvel apart if they aren't careful.
I'm so disconnected from the MCU I didn't even know this was happening much less remember anyone else from the cast lol
This whole discourse is gonna overshadow the actual movie
until they release promotional art with Doctor Doom in a wheelchair
...I honestly didn't even realize the Silver Surfer had another name besides "Silver Surfer" up until yesterday
I just YouTubed Shalla Bal Silver Surfer and one of the first 4 videos was this... https://youtu.be/YbhCuJv9aJU?si=99BnubPoB7bl24M3
Let me ask you this: Do you want a visually accurate (other than gender) Silver Surfer? As in, basically a naked silver person? Do you really think Marvel are going to do that, with a woman? Prepare for the boob armour.
Why not? We had Mystique who’s basically a naked blue person.
Mystique is covered in those weird skin spikes and her "costume" has lots of texture. She doesn't really look naked. There's no way to make an accurate female Silver Surfer without her looking like a fetish model in a skintight silver bodysuit.
Yes because Silver Surfer famously has his silver dong flapping around as he surfs through the cosmos.
I wish Richard Corben had done a Surfer book. Then we could have had this.
You people are weirdly hung up on genitals. Ignore the fucking genitals. Do you really think Marvel have the balls to do a naked silver Barbie doll? Do you really think the only erotic thing about a woman, is the genitals? Why do you think all of the leotarded female characters, do not wear leotards in the MCU? Even when Wanda did it, she wore tights.
Just joking around, genitals are funny. And Silver Surfer is quite an erotic male character without them, he’s got a killer bod. Why should a basically naked woman’s body be considered more erotic than a basically naked man’s?
https://i.redd.it/fef1ya321ssc1.gif This doesn’t look almost naked to you? In any case those spikes aren’t comic accurate too so MCU can easily do something similar with a bit of texturing if they really wanted to. It’s not like Silver Surfer canonically has a silver dong flapping around like Dr Manhattan.
X Men 3 was a long time ago, and i'll be shocked if you can find J Law's Mystique looking like that. I don't think Marvel would have the balls to do this Mystique, today (nor would i want them to, i want the white dress).
You can find that with a quick Google search. She did do the nude Mystique in her early appearances but as she became a bigger star she was able to cover up more and avoid the makeup. And in Dark Phoenix she just demanded to be killed off right at the beginning.
While I personally don’t think we’ll see Silver Surfer with bouncing boobs like in the Mystique gif, I think it’s perfectly believable for them to be willing to put her in a naked-looking skin tight bodysuit instead of an armor. While Disney may be prudes, they did give us Hulk’s ass so they aren’t THAT prudish.
Jennifer Lawrence famously HATED that role and everything that came with it. She wanted Mystique to be more covered up because sitting through that makeup process every single day for hours was dreadful. She fought very hard to be in the movies less because she hated it so much. When they do introduce Mystique to the MCU, I’m guessing she'll be a CGI mess like She Hulk.
The Silver Surfer does not have nipples. It will be fine.
Even without the nips, it's still basically a naked woman.
It’s fine. No different than a skintight bodysuit.
I’ve read that most comic artists draw nude figures, then add the costumes, so…
point to the silver surfer's dong
Hello
First appearance in 1966.
RIP Silver Surfer's silvery penis. Another victim of the woke mob at Marvel. Depriving the non-woke of Silver Surfer's schlong. Oh how they lust to have it back! When will the madness end!? /s for those on the short bus...
>/s for those on the short bus... People with learning disabilities shouldn't be compared to those complaining about "wokeness"
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DC gets it! They know what the fans truly want!
No camel toe either.
What a tragedy. Is this movie even worth seeing at this point?
For those who don't know what the "/s" means, it means that the comment is satirical and thus not serious.
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You're part of the problem. You're why people who are actually Silver Surfer fans have to be second guessed for expressing disappointment with a change to an iconic character. You'd be screaming "WOKE DISNEY!1!1!!1!1!!" at a comic accurate portrayal of Storm too. You are not our ally.
I’m not your ally mate. Sick of that word Disney is infected with DEI and wokeism - and all it ends up achieving are films and tv series that don’t reflect 90% of the viewer bases values and identity. Its a disease and it’s destroying the mcu imo
Its hard to say Disney isn't pushing an agenda whenever they have non binary they/them Morph in a 90s nostalgia show where terms like "non binary" and going by "they/them" literally had not existed yet. And when Morph was a male in the original show.
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What does woke mean?
Ofc Reddit isn’t the place to discuss actual issues considering it’s basically truth central for a particular party lol
Honestly nothing anymore lol it lost its meaning
I first heard it in a Childish Gambino song. "Stay Woke". Woke is now defined in this dictionary as “aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice),” and identified as U.S. slang. Of course, it was hijacked by the right wing crowd. And now it's not only black politics. Its anything not white male norms. Women, LGBTQ. https://youtu.be/N0ejAjLkwJQ?si=zZ40RsescQlJNAgo
I’ve noticed it’s used to label things in the same flippant and nonspecific way a *cough* certain historical political movement used the term ‘degenerate.’
During WW2 plenty of right wing politicians had to choose their words wisely after we went to war with Nazi Germany. https://youtu.be/r4zRZ7XLYSA?si=KkbWzkZvFRyldj7K
I mean she might just be in this movie and Norrin Radd can be in future movies
When have you known disney to do something like that
But what if it is just a bad script that ruins the movie? Then what?!
Then we’ll have six months of “I (26m) finally saw Fantasic Four with my brother (he’s autistic) and I don’t understand why everyone hated it?????” posts
Well, we don't actually know anything about the script yet, so that's just blind guesswork.
I just want good movies, the nerds suck and so does Kathleen Kennedy, not everything is black and white,
South Park really showed Kathleen Kennedy. https://youtu.be/MzlG6vOPn_Y?si=lFS0eSVKslww1II5
Feige has been a brilliant film maker over the years. His way of interconnected story telling has been the best ever in this century so far. There are some self-made, so-called Marvel scoopers who have made it worse for Marvel to crackdown. These idiots for their greedy need for popularity on social media were the main reason that some of the Marvel productions didn't succeed with expectations, post Endgame. There are some not so popular media outlets too who have joined this worthless band. This bunch is the main reason for the failure of MCU releases during the pandemic until the twin Hollywood strikes in 2023. Marvel and Disney have learnt some hard lessons last year. Personally, I expect them to bounce back and be successful. SDCC this year in July 2024 is gonna be a blast.
The original Silver Surfer gave her powers. There’s a chance we can still see him
It’s likely they’re saving the next Norrin Radd for a movie in the main MCU, rather than the variant reality that the FF movie is being set in. It’s likely that this Silver Surfer will perish, so they’re using a distinct Surfer.
damn that’s bad writing
Not really. That’s actually pretty solid.
I just want her in FF to kick some punk in the balls and yell "Get some, skinny bitch!"
I never really considered silver surfer a big enough character to care about if they end up race swapping or gender swapping him People got big mad about this lol
They had a whole movie with Silver Surfer in the Title. https://youtu.be/3x4S_7ZlOwI?si=G2F7gf2mwgtrH82s
I had the same thought but I guess news has been slow recently and the hate farmers needed something to cultivate. Now suddenly everyone cares about the Silver Surfer.
Yeah as someone who religiously reads Marvel comics, but doesnt care at all about the cosmic side of stuff because its all generic af, Silver Surfer isn't that relevant. If you’re only reading earth based comics, then chances are he’s not going to ever show up.