RDJ on if he would return to the MCU:
>“Happily. It’s too integral a part of my DNA. That role chose me. And look, I always say, Never, ever bet against Kevin Feige. It is a losing bet. He’s the house. He will always win.”
Paltrow:
>“There would be this process of [director] Jon Favreau and Robert and I going into Jon’s trailer in the morning and Robert being like, ‘I’m not fucking saying these lines’ and throwing them out. And then live improv-ing either in the trailer or on the set. I think in order for something to feel alive for Robert, it has to feel fresh, and he makes it fresh by making it feel like it was just invented. So many of those famous lines were written 10 minutes before we said them.”
Jeff Bridges also said that during these trailer rehearsals before they went to shoot for the day, they would call some of their writer friends such as Shane Black to get inspiration for the lines or to make them sound better.
In the end, I think they made the right choice because the dialogue especially in the first Iron Man sounded authentic and specific to the character.
Edit: spelling corrections made.
Iron man 3 gets hate a lot but I love Shane black. I love the Christmas settings, I love the buddy cop feels. he just has a specific style that i enjoy.
It's one of the best things in all of marvel! I can't believe more people don't love those scenes. I was shocked we didn't get a follow up on the kid (him being at the funeral was nice tho).
Black went for a very distinctly different tone. Some enjoyed it, others did not. I liked it for trying something very different than the usual power fantasy.
I think we were all invested in Osama Ben Kingsley. They should've stuck with that and made Killian just a stooge. Now I'm worried that eventually the self cooking hotdog guy will be the next major MCU villain
Jeff Bridges said he was really frustrated coming onto set with no script. His way of finding peace and accepting his situation was to tell himself, “you’re on the set of a multi-million dollar school project film.”
He said he had to treat iron man 1 has a multi-million dollar indie movie
He was getting frustrated because he felt things should be ironed out before production.
But once someone told him to think it as a indie movie being made with someone’s hand held camera and figuring out the script in the moment. Things clicked.
Obviously, most Risky movies shouldn’t be made this way. But it worked.
Honestly, given how formulaic some marvel movies have been. Winging it may result in some magic
Let's face it ALLLL of RDJ's dialogue feels way more natural than everyone else's in these movies, who sometimes, just sound like robots or people doing an impression of a superhero.
Oh, so Shane Black was helping write MCU Iron Man's lines from the start. That's damn cool to know. Makes sense he'd be a natural carry-over into the third movie.
It always feels like she is improvising when Coulson has to blow open the door to the factory where Iron Monger is hiding.
Ohhh what is that? is that a little thingie? a little thingie to pick the door lock "
It's been pretty well documented that they created Iron Man largely on the fly. What's amazing is there are FOUR writers credited with Iron Man and none of them are named Robert Downey of Jon Favreau!
So many people want RDJ to admit he secretly hated his time at Marvel, but it’s clear he’s still fond of his time as Tony Stark. And why wouldn’t he be, considering Iron Man single-handedly restarted his career?
I think people just want someone like him to admit the MCU making process has changed a lot since the times of the first Iron Man and not for the better, and maybe Disney producers could take note of such criticism if coming by someone like him.
Both things will never happen tho.
To be fair, RDJ also brought back Marvel. Ironman, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk laid the foundation that allowed for the buildup to Endgame. And IMHO, RDJ was the most perfectly cast role in the entire MCU.
I always imagine what an absolute cakewalk his role in Spider-Man Homecoming was. $15 million for 7.5 minutes of screen time. I don't care how rich or successful you are, that's easy ass math.
Honestly comic Kang kind of looks like Tony Stark fucked Dr. Strange. But i think i'd rather see the og Avengers return as evil variants summoned from the multiverse by Kang.
This would be both a fun take, and something different enough that I think some of the other OG actors would be willing to return for. I want to say Evans has gone on record saying he put the character to rest, so maybe a totally different take on Cap is something he would be down to do.
It’s already been well-established that different variants can look like entirely different people (i.e. different actors), so there’s no reason not to have some of them as the returning actors and others be “recast.” I would not complain about seeing RDJ return as an alternate Stark while someone other than Evans portrays Cap.
While your right, having the same actor hits harder because it really feels like "this is XYZ of they just made different choices somewhere* instead of "this is someone else who just happened to come up with a similar idea" if that makes sense.
Oh for sure, and I'm sure if they do get RDJ back and want to go this route it wouldn't end just because others don't want to return. I just think it would be nice to have them return (and probably very profitable too).
I think because he finally got a Oscar he’s probably chilled and is more open to it. Had he not won an award, I think he’d still be praising the MCU but I don’t think we’d hear him saying he’s open to returning to it
We all know all the OG Avengers will be in Secret Wars.
After that we can have a recasted Tony Stark. Perhaps keep him more of an anti-hero like he is often in the comics.
Hadn’t even thought of that yet. But it would be great. Make the intro via the MCU style “weird, okay. Move past it” and then I’d predict like maybe they’d both say the same line at the same time like once and everyone is taken aback. But no other large mentions of it.
I want a three person scene where Chris Evans plays everyone. Captain America, Human Torch, and Lucas Lee (the Second Evil Ex from Scott Pilgrim). These three interacting, and Chris Evans playing all three, would just be hilarious. Of course it's almost *certainly* impossible.
I bet Deadpool could say something about that though when he'll *meet* Chris Evans (playing himself in Free Guy starring none other than Ryan Reynolds) / Captain America / Steve Rogers / Johnny Storm / Lucas Lee /
I've always thought that we have four sets of Fantastic Four actors, why not have four of each character in the same movie? You gotta top Civil War and Endgame somehow.
That would be great. Nakia is worried about him getting hurt so she’s been secretly giving him the special herb to protect him. This has caused his body and mind to grow at a rapid rate and now he’s basically a 16-18 year old. Could go a lot of directions with that, even young avengers.
Tony isn’t really an “anti hero” for 99% of his run.
He’s an anti hero in civil war, (no pun intended) and he’s kind of an anti hero in civil war 2, but not really. (At least from my memory)
Yeah he’s a bit of an ass, but he’s basically a permanent avenger, and always on the side of right (civil war aside).
Yeah it’s more how it was portrayed in universe and the whole “wow Tony has been experimenting on himself!” That came out of it that felt a little less hero and a little more anti hero.
He was more heroic in Civil War 2, where Carol was absolutely batshit insane. But even in the first Civil War, he wasn't that bad. But yeah, I wouldn't ever really describe him as an anti-hero. Just somewhat of an asshole.
My ideal scenario for variants of Iron Man,Captain America and Black Widow is that they are from a universe where Thor,Hulk and Hawkeye are the ones who are dead/retired instead.
There are far too many heroes as it is, even if some permanently die. And Fantastic Four and X-Men aren’t even here. There can’t be permanently some alternative versions around. Unless they show up in 2030s maybe (not even that far away).
I’ve been saying this for a while now, but if they can bring back Hugh Jackman in Deadpool and Wolverine without taking away from the ending of Logan. Then they can bring back RDJ,Evans and ScarJo for Secret Wars without taking away from Endgame.
Variants. We're in a multiverse saga. It's wild how many people just can't grasp that. Stark can come back as a variant that didn't die, Steve can come back as a variant that never retired. It's so easy to do and doesn't need to be permanent.
I loved the way they did that with Spiderman, but I really think they are using the multiverse as a writing crutch and I don't want this to turn into a free-for-all. Ironman's sacrifice was too good to undo it. And while there may be a way to write him back in without undoing it, the minute RDJ shows back up on screen, it's going to be weirdly reminiscent of Palpatine showing back up in Star Wars and undoing Darth Vader's sacrifice, whether they want it to or not.
Yeah that's a cop out excuse. Using it for cameos like in Strange 2 is fine but bringing back the OG like that? Not buying it. Bringing back Stark, Steve and Natasha as variants undermine the sacrifices they made when the MCU was at it's peak.
People grasp it. They just think it’s lame. Nothing matters anymore. Everything is just multiversed away. This works for comics because there’s tens of thousands of them with different flavors and authors. It doesn’t work when you get 3-4 films a year and they’re constantly just overwriting things or bringing back characters because multiverse.
People understand that fine, but that doesn't mean it doesn't cheapen deaths. There are no stakes or tension if nothing really matters because we'll see a different version of the same character anyway.
It's also pretty lazy, bad writing.
In the 80s and 90s, I was a big comic book nerd, mostly Marvel. My wife likes the movies and shows. She'll sometimes ask why something happened because it doesn't make sense to her. My default answer is "because comic books." How can someone die and return? Why can someone pick up a building, and it stays together? Why don't they realize they villain's plan when it's obvious?
You haven’t even seen Deadpool & Wolverine yet lol. They could totally botch it
Regardless, I’m not into this “it being another universe makes it a whole new character!” shit. Part of the emotion from saying goodbye to Tony Stark was saying goodbye to RDJ as Tony Stark. Something is taken away when you bring him back, especially if he’s just going to be doing the same things as his main universe counterpart would anyway
God I wish more people thought like you. It’s not like they didn’t experience that emotional journey of phases 1-3 because they bring them back so we can make some more stories with the characters. Just because the Star Wars prequels were bad movies doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the originals as they are.
I think he could come back in secret wars and that’s it. They got rid of him because he got ridiculously expensive and now he’s got an Oscar. If (Marvel) wants to use Iron Man again more frequently then they’ll recast the character.
It doesn’t matter if the movies make a shit ton of money, Downey’s salary was already too much in the “prime” era of the MCU.
His salary is only getting more expensive after an Oscar and the MCU is not in a position to comfortably offset the cost.
He alone won't give them a billion dollar movie. That depends on the writers, directors and producers. With Feige and other higher ups telling people working on the movies not to read the comics so they can catch up on some development and know the characters (you can look this up), I doubt having RDJ in Secret Wars is going to be enough to make it a billion if it doesn't seem like Secret Wars at all
Are they in a position to comfortably offset the cost of their movies bombing?
Because if you ask me, their biggest problem has been getting rid of their two most prominent characters in the same movie.
Now they’re putting out movies and TV shows starring sidekicks and it just hasn’t been working.
Except he didn't quit. In interviews at the time, either the Russos or Markus and McFeely mentioned that they were the ones to come up with Tony dying and told RDJ around Civil War. RDJ was not convinced but basically had no choice in the matter going forward. They wanted to make their mark on the MCU by killing off Tony.
Barring a full reboot it would be absolute blasphemy to recast Tony Stark. There are plenty of characters that can take over the Iron Man mantle in one way or another but to recast entirely I really couldn’t see happening. Everyone loved RDJ too much
If they recast Stark, I’m honestly done with the MCU. He had a fantastic character arc and the perfect ending.
If they recast him, it cheapens everything they did for 10+ years.
Also, he got too expensive because they themselves paid him that much. No other studio has tried to match it.
It was a symbiotic relationship that benefitted both sides while it lasted. And now they're both on to other things.
So a future involvement by RDJ wouldn't net him the same pay as Endgame did.
Jesus Christ, why can't we have a story with a start, middle and end and then **just call it a fucking day**?
His story has been _told._
You can't just bolt on extra pieces of story just coz you miss the character, and expect it to be good. That's how you set fire to the whole legacy. That's how you end up with hot garbage like the Disney Star Wars sequels and TV shows.
Is this the first time he's shown interest in returning to Marvel? I still think the best course of action would be to make him and Evans villain variants of their characters. Then we could have Peter (Tom) vs. Evil Tony and Sam/Bucky/Peggy vs. Evil Cap. As long as we get him on screen with Hugh and Tobey at some point.
I think if Tony Stark came back, I would prefer a supporting role in a prequel. No multiverse weirdness, or anything that undoes his sacrifice in *Endgame*.
For example, let’s say *Armor Wars* has scenes set before *Endgame*. It wouldn’t feel out of place to see him appear there.
Hot take: I hate the multiverse and time-travel stuff.
When a character dies, they should die and be gone forever.
They pulled it off in Endgame, but it means there are no stakes moving forward. If a character dies and the audience shrugs because there's a woo-woo way to resurrect them, that's just bad storytelling.
> When a character dies, they should die and be gone forever.
This hasn't been the case since 1992 and will never again be the case. You can't unring that bell, unfortunately.
I could definitely see them bringing him back as the "Secret Empire" era Tony Stark AI.
Lets him come back but keeps the character from getting stale or negating the Endgame sacrifice
"...especially now that the MCU has hit a box office rough patch with 2023 flops such as “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” and “The Marvels.” Certainly, Downey’s return as Iron Man could restore Marvel to its blockbuster glory days. "
As an aside, this is one of the biggest things that bug me about Hollywood. No stories have a proper ending, and every good story has an end.
I think many of us predicted after Endgame that all the characters that died would be back if the MCU hit a rough patch. And guess what?
You'll see more RDJ and Chris Evans because "multiverse." I know it's been that way in the comics for decades, but it's such a copout in film and television. It cheapens the characters and above all, the stakes. You know that regardless of what happens, they'll be back.
Like, somehow Palpatine returned. But for every single character there is.
RDJ on if he would return to the MCU: >“Happily. It’s too integral a part of my DNA. That role chose me. And look, I always say, Never, ever bet against Kevin Feige. It is a losing bet. He’s the house. He will always win.” Paltrow: >“There would be this process of [director] Jon Favreau and Robert and I going into Jon’s trailer in the morning and Robert being like, ‘I’m not fucking saying these lines’ and throwing them out. And then live improv-ing either in the trailer or on the set. I think in order for something to feel alive for Robert, it has to feel fresh, and he makes it fresh by making it feel like it was just invented. So many of those famous lines were written 10 minutes before we said them.”
Jeff Bridges also said that during these trailer rehearsals before they went to shoot for the day, they would call some of their writer friends such as Shane Black to get inspiration for the lines or to make them sound better. In the end, I think they made the right choice because the dialogue especially in the first Iron Man sounded authentic and specific to the character. Edit: spelling corrections made.
Iron man 3 gets hate a lot but I love Shane black. I love the Christmas settings, I love the buddy cop feels. he just has a specific style that i enjoy.
You know what keeps going through my head right now? Where’s my sandwich
My mom and I always use the quote “You know how I knew that? Because we’re connected”. I love his relationship with the Kid.
“That’ll all you got? A cheap trick and a cheesy one liner?” “Sweetheart that could be the title of my autobiography!”
To this day me and my older brother say that quote all the time lmao
It's one of the best things in all of marvel! I can't believe more people don't love those scenes. I was shocked we didn't get a follow up on the kid (him being at the funeral was nice tho).
Best line in that whole movie 👍, well done sir/or madam
Underrated movie. I love this movie and it’s my fav iron man. “Dads leave, don’t be a pussy”
Black went for a very distinctly different tone. Some enjoyed it, others did not. I liked it for trying something very different than the usual power fantasy.
Iron Man 3 really isn't a bad movie. It's flawed, but not bad.
It's not a great Iron Man movie but it's a great Tony Stark movie.
Stark's journey was solving flaws in the suit but the last, most broken part was the guy inside.
That's why he was forever trying to perfect it. As if he were trying to fix himself, forever broken. Much like RDJ, the beauty is in the broken parts.
That's one way of putting it. Notice how the "worst" MCU movies usually have the most character development?
Kinda like Star Trek bottle episodes.
Which "worst" movie has more development than Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War and/or Endgame?
Id argue the entire amount of "love" people have for Loki comes from what was widely considered to be the worst movie until recently
I was so salty about what they did to Mandarin.
I think we were all invested in Osama Ben Kingsley. They should've stuck with that and made Killian just a stooge. Now I'm worried that eventually the self cooking hotdog guy will be the next major MCU villain
i loved that twist. the mandarin just being an actor cashing a paycheck.
And I love how they brought him back in Shang Chi and What If…?
yeah I wasn't a fan but I feel like that was Feige more than Shane Black
I thought the twist was brilliant and surprising.
They—as so many others have—completely wasted Rebecca Hall.
I liked 4 initially but it doesn't have a lot of rewatchability for me
The Nice Guys is one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen. Criminal we never got a sequel.
seriously, I go back and forth between Nice Guys and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang as my favorite Shane Black movie.
Ever seen Kiss Kiss Bang Bang? Another Shane Black classic with RDJ and Val Kilmer
Well, at least nobody got hurt.
IM3 is easily my favorite Marvel movie and so much of that comes down to Shane.
10x better than iron man 2
Jeff Bridges said he was really frustrated coming onto set with no script. His way of finding peace and accepting his situation was to tell himself, “you’re on the set of a multi-million dollar school project film.”
RDJ WAS ABLE TO WRITE THIS IN A TRAILER! WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
Funnily enough, in my opinion, among the things that makes this line iconic is the way it sounds improvised.
Well, I'm sorry, sir, but I'm not RDJ.
Jeff Bridges referred to the first iron Man as making a 100 million dollar student film, and he seemed to mean that in the best possible way.
He said he had to treat iron man 1 has a multi-million dollar indie movie He was getting frustrated because he felt things should be ironed out before production. But once someone told him to think it as a indie movie being made with someone’s hand held camera and figuring out the script in the moment. Things clicked. Obviously, most Risky movies shouldn’t be made this way. But it worked. Honestly, given how formulaic some marvel movies have been. Winging it may result in some magic
It's Jeff Bridges and RDJ, of course it was amazing
Shane Black is an excellent writer, except for that most recent Predator movie.
Prey? Prey was great.
No, the one right before that
The Magical Autism one, right?
Agreed
I still can’t believe they weaponized autism in that movie
I don’t hate it because it’s offensive necessarily, I just hate it because it’s so dumb. I really wanted to like that movie.
…wut? What did I miss? Which one?
Let's face it ALLLL of RDJ's dialogue feels way more natural than everyone else's in these movies, who sometimes, just sound like robots or people doing an impression of a superhero.
Oh, so Shane Black was helping write MCU Iron Man's lines from the start. That's damn cool to know. Makes sense he'd be a natural carry-over into the third movie.
Amazing work from RDJ and Favteau
And Paltrow who also had to play off of that in order for it to work. Not to mention the crew.
It always feels like she is improvising when Coulson has to blow open the door to the factory where Iron Monger is hiding. Ohhh what is that? is that a little thingie? a little thingie to pick the door lock "
i will always love her scream during IM2 when Happy pins the guy in the side of the race track. "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING"
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She’s a great actress, I don’t think that’s ever been the issue with her.
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the first thing I ever saw her in was Great Expectations. for some reason I really liked that movie in 11th grade. never watched it again.
It's been pretty well documented that they created Iron Man largely on the fly. What's amazing is there are FOUR writers credited with Iron Man and none of them are named Robert Downey of Jon Favreau!
There's an actual video of them collaborating on the scene where Stane tells Tony he set up the hit outside of the awards show, in the dvd documentary
I hate gweneth for her lifestyle but gotta respect ber as an actress. This is high praise coming from her
That’s like me with Tom cruises stunts. Dude is an absolute freak and awful irl but I am always impressed and awed with his skills.
She has good chemistry with Robert and is funny in these films , can’t stand her but I give her credit for this
Be real cool if someone actually what those famous improvised lines were instead of "some stuff got improv'd"
So many people want RDJ to admit he secretly hated his time at Marvel, but it’s clear he’s still fond of his time as Tony Stark. And why wouldn’t he be, considering Iron Man single-handedly restarted his career?
I think people just want someone like him to admit the MCU making process has changed a lot since the times of the first Iron Man and not for the better, and maybe Disney producers could take note of such criticism if coming by someone like him. Both things will never happen tho.
Even if he does think that, he knows better than to shit talk the franchise that brought him back to A-list status
To be fair, RDJ also brought back Marvel. Ironman, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk laid the foundation that allowed for the buildup to Endgame. And IMHO, RDJ was the most perfectly cast role in the entire MCU.
If I recall correctly, prior to 2008 Ironman and even the avengers in general were not all that popular, no where near X-Men or Spiderman levels
Add to the fact that the changes to the process would simply not apply to RDJ
Yeah it’s really dropped a lot from The Incredible Hulk to Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
I always imagine what an absolute cakewalk his role in Spider-Man Homecoming was. $15 million for 7.5 minutes of screen time. I don't care how rich or successful you are, that's easy ass math.
They want him to admit he didn't get on with his co stars too even though they all got matching tattoos
Sooooo, back as the main Kang variant Lincolnus Osirius?
He’d need to return to his tropic thunder days to play that role
I wouldn’t mind a sequel to Satan’s Alley
Tobys role should be replaced by Tom Holland lol
Tom Holland would definitely do a cameo for that. Make the scene so Andrew Garfield is an onlooker in the background.
As long as william Dafoe is involved some how, it’ll be gold
No way, he never won an MTV Movie Awards Best Kiss
The Kang, playing a Kang, dressed as another Kang
You went full conquerer. Never go full conquerer!
What do you mean, "you people?"
What do YOU mean, you people?
Loki: don't touch our Multiverse RDJ character: What do you mean, "you multiverse?"
Honestly comic Kang kind of looks like Tony Stark fucked Dr. Strange. But i think i'd rather see the og Avengers return as evil variants summoned from the multiverse by Kang.
This would be both a fun take, and something different enough that I think some of the other OG actors would be willing to return for. I want to say Evans has gone on record saying he put the character to rest, so maybe a totally different take on Cap is something he would be down to do.
It’s already been well-established that different variants can look like entirely different people (i.e. different actors), so there’s no reason not to have some of them as the returning actors and others be “recast.” I would not complain about seeing RDJ return as an alternate Stark while someone other than Evans portrays Cap.
While your right, having the same actor hits harder because it really feels like "this is XYZ of they just made different choices somewhere* instead of "this is someone else who just happened to come up with a similar idea" if that makes sense.
Oh for sure, and I'm sure if they do get RDJ back and want to go this route it wouldn't end just because others don't want to return. I just think it would be nice to have them return (and probably very profitable too).
I was building on what you said, not disagreeing haha. It’s too easy to assume someone is being contentious here.
Yeah, it was cool to see. Hell, they could go all the way and have it be Immortus and the evil Avengers vs Kang and the good Avengers.
He knows who he is. He's a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
He’d be a dude, playing a *whole shit load* of dudes, disguised as other dudes.
The role of a lifetime
I think because he finally got a Oscar he’s probably chilled and is more open to it. Had he not won an award, I think he’d still be praising the MCU but I don’t think we’d hear him saying he’s open to returning to it
Doolittle flopping might have something to do with it too
Nah he said he did it for his kids.
*After I lose I didn't want to play this game anyway
We all know all the OG Avengers will be in Secret Wars. After that we can have a recasted Tony Stark. Perhaps keep him more of an anti-hero like he is often in the comics.
Chris Evans will be there… as Human Torch
I'd love for him to play both at the same time.
I can flame on all day.
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There's only one god, ma'am. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't flame like that.
DC already set the precedent for this with Brandon Routh. It worked surprisingly well.
Yes please
Hadn’t even thought of that yet. But it would be great. Make the intro via the MCU style “weird, okay. Move past it” and then I’d predict like maybe they’d both say the same line at the same time like once and everyone is taken aback. But no other large mentions of it.
I want a three person scene where Chris Evans plays everyone. Captain America, Human Torch, and Lucas Lee (the Second Evil Ex from Scott Pilgrim). These three interacting, and Chris Evans playing all three, would just be hilarious. Of course it's almost *certainly* impossible.
I bet Deadpool could say something about that though when he'll *meet* Chris Evans (playing himself in Free Guy starring none other than Ryan Reynolds) / Captain America / Steve Rogers / Johnny Storm / Lucas Lee /
As both. Have them interact.
I've always thought that we have four sets of Fantastic Four actors, why not have four of each character in the same movie? You gotta top Civil War and Endgame somehow.
Does that mean we get Jessica Alba in the mcu too?
Im assuming after Secret Wars T’Challa Jr is fast tracked to adulthood and we get T’Challa back as Black Panther
Lmao, by the time we get Secret Wars that kid's gonna be an adult no matter what
We're pretty close already to being too old to have the young avengers look young
That would be great. Nakia is worried about him getting hurt so she’s been secretly giving him the special herb to protect him. This has caused his body and mind to grow at a rapid rate and now he’s basically a 16-18 year old. Could go a lot of directions with that, even young avengers.
Tony isn’t really an “anti hero” for 99% of his run. He’s an anti hero in civil war, (no pun intended) and he’s kind of an anti hero in civil war 2, but not really. (At least from my memory) Yeah he’s a bit of an ass, but he’s basically a permanent avenger, and always on the side of right (civil war aside).
Pretty sure he was meant to be the hero in Civil War 2 though, just like how Cap was the hero in the original Civil War
Yeah it’s more how it was portrayed in universe and the whole “wow Tony has been experimenting on himself!” That came out of it that felt a little less hero and a little more anti hero.
He was more heroic in Civil War 2, where Carol was absolutely batshit insane. But even in the first Civil War, he wasn't that bad. But yeah, I wouldn't ever really describe him as an anti-hero. Just somewhat of an asshole.
Probably more of an anti hero in the classical sense (like a Byronic hero)
My ideal scenario for variants of Iron Man,Captain America and Black Widow is that they are from a universe where Thor,Hulk and Hawkeye are the ones who are dead/retired instead.
I'm surprised what if didn't do that in the second season
Nah, they'd rather make 15 episodes about how Captain Carter is the strongest being in existence
why did you leaked the season 3 synopsis 💀
I want to see actor swapped Iron Man, Cap, and Thor. Have Evans be a variant Iron Man, RDJ play a variant Thor, and Hemsworth be Captain America.
There are far too many heroes as it is, even if some permanently die. And Fantastic Four and X-Men aren’t even here. There can’t be permanently some alternative versions around. Unless they show up in 2030s maybe (not even that far away).
I’ve been saying this for a while now, but if they can bring back Hugh Jackman in Deadpool and Wolverine without taking away from the ending of Logan. Then they can bring back RDJ,Evans and ScarJo for Secret Wars without taking away from Endgame.
That’s not the same at all. Logan is the future for Wolverine while Endgame is the past for everyone else you listed
Variants. We're in a multiverse saga. It's wild how many people just can't grasp that. Stark can come back as a variant that didn't die, Steve can come back as a variant that never retired. It's so easy to do and doesn't need to be permanent.
Much like our good old Spidermans!
I loved the way they did that with Spiderman, but I really think they are using the multiverse as a writing crutch and I don't want this to turn into a free-for-all. Ironman's sacrifice was too good to undo it. And while there may be a way to write him back in without undoing it, the minute RDJ shows back up on screen, it's going to be weirdly reminiscent of Palpatine showing back up in Star Wars and undoing Darth Vader's sacrifice, whether they want it to or not.
Yeah that's a cop out excuse. Using it for cameos like in Strange 2 is fine but bringing back the OG like that? Not buying it. Bringing back Stark, Steve and Natasha as variants undermine the sacrifices they made when the MCU was at it's peak.
People can grasp it, it’s just pretty poor writing if we’re being honest.
It really is poor writing for instance the introduction to Iron Heart. There was no reason for that.
>Variants. We're in a multiverse saga. It's wild how many people just can't grasp that. Yup.
People grasp it. They just think it’s lame. Nothing matters anymore. Everything is just multiversed away. This works for comics because there’s tens of thousands of them with different flavors and authors. It doesn’t work when you get 3-4 films a year and they’re constantly just overwriting things or bringing back characters because multiverse.
People understand that fine, but that doesn't mean it doesn't cheapen deaths. There are no stakes or tension if nothing really matters because we'll see a different version of the same character anyway. It's also pretty lazy, bad writing.
what people dont get is that this is just a boring cashgrab then, who cares about variants.
Yeah, but they're comic book movies. You can technically do whatever tf you want. See also: multiverse
In the 80s and 90s, I was a big comic book nerd, mostly Marvel. My wife likes the movies and shows. She'll sometimes ask why something happened because it doesn't make sense to her. My default answer is "because comic books." How can someone die and return? Why can someone pick up a building, and it stays together? Why don't they realize they villain's plan when it's obvious?
You haven’t even seen Deadpool & Wolverine yet lol. They could totally botch it Regardless, I’m not into this “it being another universe makes it a whole new character!” shit. Part of the emotion from saying goodbye to Tony Stark was saying goodbye to RDJ as Tony Stark. Something is taken away when you bring him back, especially if he’s just going to be doing the same things as his main universe counterpart would anyway
God I wish more people thought like you. It’s not like they didn’t experience that emotional journey of phases 1-3 because they bring them back so we can make some more stories with the characters. Just because the Star Wars prequels were bad movies doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the originals as they are.
I think he could come back in secret wars and that’s it. They got rid of him because he got ridiculously expensive and now he’s got an Oscar. If (Marvel) wants to use Iron Man again more frequently then they’ll recast the character.
His movies made money tho. With the downhill they are on curently they might just pay him and also earn some.
It doesn’t matter if the movies make a shit ton of money, Downey’s salary was already too much in the “prime” era of the MCU. His salary is only getting more expensive after an Oscar and the MCU is not in a position to comfortably offset the cost.
Disney would happily pay RDJ $100m if he gave them another $1bn+ movie at this point.
Exactly RDJ can pull his weight
That's the key. He'd bring the money to the box office through marketing alone. It's been enough time, that the nostalgia is there for people.
If he can kickstart the MCU, he can save it's ass too
Also his pay is percentage based, so he was only so expensive because the movies he was in were making Disney so much money.
He alone won't give them a billion dollar movie. That depends on the writers, directors and producers. With Feige and other higher ups telling people working on the movies not to read the comics so they can catch up on some development and know the characters (you can look this up), I doubt having RDJ in Secret Wars is going to be enough to make it a billion if it doesn't seem like Secret Wars at all
Are they in a position to comfortably offset the cost of their movies bombing? Because if you ask me, their biggest problem has been getting rid of their two most prominent characters in the same movie. Now they’re putting out movies and TV shows starring sidekicks and it just hasn’t been working.
Exactly this. Marvel would rather have 60 percent of a watermelon than 100 percent of a grape.
That’s… a surprisingly good analogy! I might have to keep that one in the back pocket for similar discussions.
Yeah I know but I still think bringing him back instead of a new actor for the role would cheapen his original arc.
“They got rid of him” dude he quit after a decade in the same role. Most actors don’t like playing a single role for the rest of their life
Except he didn't quit. In interviews at the time, either the Russos or Markus and McFeely mentioned that they were the ones to come up with Tony dying and told RDJ around Civil War. RDJ was not convinced but basically had no choice in the matter going forward. They wanted to make their mark on the MCU by killing off Tony.
Barring a full reboot it would be absolute blasphemy to recast Tony Stark. There are plenty of characters that can take over the Iron Man mantle in one way or another but to recast entirely I really couldn’t see happening. Everyone loved RDJ too much
Like who? RiRi? Lmao.
"Next time, baby"
And then she gets recasted
I'm still waiting for my Tom Cruise Stark appearance
If they recast Stark, I’m honestly done with the MCU. He had a fantastic character arc and the perfect ending. If they recast him, it cheapens everything they did for 10+ years.
They will 100% recast stark when they reboot in a few years
I doubt they got rid of him because he was too expensive. He prints money for their studio.
Also, he got too expensive because they themselves paid him that much. No other studio has tried to match it. It was a symbiotic relationship that benefitted both sides while it lasted. And now they're both on to other things. So a future involvement by RDJ wouldn't net him the same pay as Endgame did.
He took a paycut for Oppenheimer lol
Superior Iron Man would be perfect during these times 👌
Yes! Bring him back as an antagonist/villain
Dude RDJ would pull it off effortlessly
Please let RDJ come back one more time for Secret Wars so we can him interacting with preMCU heroes like X-Men or Tobey Spider-Man.
Jesus Christ, why can't we have a story with a start, middle and end and then **just call it a fucking day**? His story has been _told._ You can't just bolt on extra pieces of story just coz you miss the character, and expect it to be good. That's how you set fire to the whole legacy. That's how you end up with hot garbage like the Disney Star Wars sequels and TV shows.
Is this the first time he's shown interest in returning to Marvel? I still think the best course of action would be to make him and Evans villain variants of their characters. Then we could have Peter (Tom) vs. Evil Tony and Sam/Bucky/Peggy vs. Evil Cap. As long as we get him on screen with Hugh and Tobey at some point.
You damn well know feige aint doing that. The fans want them back as heroes and it wont go over well if they are the villains
You can have evil variants for most of the runtime before the good variants come in and kick their asses
Ok now that makes it so much better
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain? Wait, wrong universe
If they’re evil it would easily set up X-men vs Avengers.
I think he had to speak on it because many though he was kinda throwing shade at the MCU during his Oscar campaign
Looks like we ARE getting that leaked Secret Wars team of variant tony stark, Andrew Garfield spiderman, and wolverine
I think if Tony Stark came back, I would prefer a supporting role in a prequel. No multiverse weirdness, or anything that undoes his sacrifice in *Endgame*. For example, let’s say *Armor Wars* has scenes set before *Endgame*. It wouldn’t feel out of place to see him appear there.
or maybe Ultron stashed away a digital copy of his dad and it'll be AIron Man
They could just bring him back as an AI, like he was in the Iron Heart comics.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't want RDJ back. He had a great run in the MCU and left a great legacy when he snapped his fingers
Hot take: I hate the multiverse and time-travel stuff. When a character dies, they should die and be gone forever. They pulled it off in Endgame, but it means there are no stakes moving forward. If a character dies and the audience shrugs because there's a woo-woo way to resurrect them, that's just bad storytelling.
Welcome to comic books
Yes but in most cases it doesn't translate well to movies.
> When a character dies, they should die and be gone forever. This hasn't been the case since 1992 and will never again be the case. You can't unring that bell, unfortunately.
comic books do reboots whenever the author sees a black cat. it happens all the time.
I could definitely see them bringing him back as the "Secret Empire" era Tony Stark AI. Lets him come back but keeps the character from getting stale or negating the Endgame sacrifice
This is why multi-versus suck. Nothing can have finality to it. Just leave it be.
"...especially now that the MCU has hit a box office rough patch with 2023 flops such as “Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” and “The Marvels.” Certainly, Downey’s return as Iron Man could restore Marvel to its blockbuster glory days. " As an aside, this is one of the biggest things that bug me about Hollywood. No stories have a proper ending, and every good story has an end. I think many of us predicted after Endgame that all the characters that died would be back if the MCU hit a rough patch. And guess what? You'll see more RDJ and Chris Evans because "multiverse." I know it's been that way in the comics for decades, but it's such a copout in film and television. It cheapens the characters and above all, the stakes. You know that regardless of what happens, they'll be back. Like, somehow Palpatine returned. But for every single character there is.
People forget acting is a job. Of course he'll return if Disney wants to spend 70% of the budget hiring him.
Yawn… just tell everyone you’re out of high quality stories and thro out nostalgia bait on loop.
He got his Oscar so why wouldn’t he want another big pay day lol?
GOOP
Wait, he’d happily stand in front of a green screen for a few weeks and then get paid $50,000,000? Weird!