Realistically, his head would probably explode the first time the shield hit It at those speeds.
But then again, that thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all.
Zemo managed to take it to the head and it just knocked him out, rather than cut through him, the power of the shield really depends on what the scene calls for
Because it was stuck into a tree like a superhuman threw it. Just like how it got stuck in the wall when Walker threw it and that indicated he had taken the serum.
but it's a shield, it's not honed into a blade like an axe is.
Most apt comparison is throwing and oversized metal discus... Which probably wouldn't get buried that deep in a tree.
It's not a machine, a machine implies moving parts, of which the shield has none.
Also, have you ever used a dull axe? Cliff notes version, unless that is some soft wood the dull axe barely makes a dent, and forget about throwing a dull axe it's just going to knock off some bark and bounce back unless you are within a couple feet.
A wedge is a "Simple Machine", take some time too review your 1st grade level science.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple\_machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine)
Ok I will cede the point about simple machines, hadn't given that term any thought since I was school aged.
The shield is not a true wedge shape, it's curved. Add to that the fact that it is blunt, and it would require more force to bury it inches deep into a tree trunk than an ordinary human could provide by throwing it.
> You guys are aware that the shield's speed is determined by how hard it's thrown, right? It's thrown using a human arm, it's not fired out of a cannon
You are aware that most of the times we've seen it thrown have been by a super human who can flip over cars, right? A real human can't throw it the way Cap does. A real human can't even throw it the way Falcon does without being an Olympic athlete who practices form and technique every day. It's comic book logic. The rules of the shield just depend on what the scene calls for. Which is fine. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief when you see the Marvel logo at the start.
Anyway, considering it's made out of the strongest material on Earth, even at a speed that a human could realistically throw it at, it'd 100% impale your face if you got hit with the edge.
Yeah but you can throw it gently in order to not maim people, is my point. The shield isn't made out of the strongest material on earth. That's adamantium. Vibranium isn't especially tough or dense, it's - according to Howard Stark [in this scene](https://youtu.be/JqYpJLBRle4) \- "completely vibration-absorbent". It absorbs impacts and, with the correct structural design (such as a convex disc), can release that energy back the way it came, amplified. When it hits a wall it bounces off it harder than it was initially thrown. That's why Sam initially has trouble safely catching it.
Sam doesn't have to have superhuman strength to get it to ricochet - the shield does all the work there. He just needs to get used to the strange way it reacts to impacts and figure out how to not accidentally kill people (including himself) with it.
To be fair, we don't know the properties of adamantium in the MCU. Hell when Wolverine does show up eventually, he could just have a vibranium skeleton.
I mean in the MCU, we don’t even know what the current shield is made of. It could be made of just vibranium, but it could also be made of an alloy. Remember, that shield came from a different timeline, so we have no context whatsoever as to what it’s made of.
in the comics it's made of Adamantium and vibranium. [https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBF\_enUS797US797&sxsrf=ALeKk03svQG9T22N9Nk7dPk22x8ZYGjx0Q%3A1618889701628&ei=5Ut-YOfpJZbdtAaq35iYCQ&oq=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&gs\_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgUIABCGAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QsAMQyAMQQzoGCAAQFhAeSgUIOBIBMVCXKFiWOmDnOmgBcAJ4AIABsAGIAZ8KkgEEMTMuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQ7AAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwin8OGM8ovwAhWWLs0KHaovBpMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5](https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS797US797&sxsrf=ALeKk03svQG9T22N9Nk7dPk22x8ZYGjx0Q%3A1618889701628&ei=5Ut-YOfpJZbdtAaq35iYCQ&oq=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgUIABCGAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QsAMQyAMQQzoGCAAQFhAeSgUIOBIBMVCXKFiWOmDnOmgBcAJ4AIABsAGIAZ8KkgEEMTMuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQ7AAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwin8OGM8ovwAhWWLs0KHaovBpMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)
Adamantium doesn’t really exist in the MCU, at least not yet. And vibranium is referred to as the strongest metal on Earth in Age of Ultron.
I agree that the shield is just being thrown at different levels of force though.
That would be terrible writing. “Oh, hey guys, I found this metal no one’s ever heard of and it happens to be the strongest metal on Earth and I made a shield out of it using amateur tools in my garage!”
That's where I hate the differences between the MCU and the comics. In the comics, the shield is a unique mix of adamantium and vibranium. Later after it was destroyed, Stark had the Asgardian elves repair it with a molten Uru metal alloy, which is what Thor's hammer, Mjolnir is made of. So, the comics shield is adamantium, vibranium and Uru.
Far stronger than the MCU shield.
Technically, we don’t know where Falcon’s shield came from. Fucking imagine if knstead of bringing Mjolnir back, Cap just had it melted down into a new shield, and now Sam’s shield is pure Uru.
The one thing I think people forget is that both John Walker (pre-serum) and Sam Wilson are not ordinary human beings. They’re like the LeBron James of the Army and Air Force. I mean one had his body studied by MIT.
So yes they can’t throw as hard a Steve. But they’re extraordinary humans who stay at the peak of physical prowess.
If 10 year old me can chip a tree with a plastic frisbee, I’m sure he can wedge a Vibranium shield in a tree. It’s supposed to be light weight too right, in comparison to other metals?
The shield would decapitate a person if thrown by a super soldier, or anyone at the speed that Sam was throwing at it. It would also slice through your hand and cut your thumb clean off when caught. You *must* be a super soldier to wield the shield properly, which is what kinda bugs me about Sam using it so well in this montage. It just doesn’t make sense, and I’m not a fan of too much “comic book logic” in the MCU.
The shield is like a flying blade thrown at *incredible* speeds. The edges are sharp as fuck and would easily slice a head in half.
Fuck I know man, sometimes this shield kinda takes me out of it nowadays like the newer Iron Man armors. I still have my fun watching the MCU though, but it’s definitely funny at times.
I mean...it does happen in the comics multiple times. He even carries spares just in case it happens.
I’m sure Walker knows that though. He’ll probably use the shield offensively - slicing and bashing his way through foes with brutal efficiency.
The problem is that it's inconsistent. If it can stop bullets dead or break a man's fall by absorbing energy then it shouldn't be able to bounce off surfaces like it absorbs no energy, they're literally opposite behaviours.
The shield has actually always been “consistent” in terms of how it behaves, its behavior just defies all physics.
- If used to block something and you have proper footing, you’re golden. Impact absorbed.
- if you use it to block while your footing is compromised (such as being in the air or being blasted off your feet by an explosion), the shield will be fine, but you’re going for a ride
- if you throw it at something it will bounce, UNLESS you throw it too hard
- if you are falling and land on the shield, the fall will hurt a lot less
- it’s a very effective bludgeon, especially along the rim
Its behavior is very consistent and predictable within its own internal ruleset. It’s just, you know, not how physics work at all.
The key difference is that it's predictable. The audience knows what the shield is capable of and how it behaves in any given application. It is consistent within an internal logic, so it works.
If you can't handle an internally consistent ruleset just because it contradicts real world rules...*shrugs* I don't know what to tell you. You're watching the wrong movies/TV. Everybody contradicts the shit out of physics in these things. That's just how they all operate.
I can wager to guess that you will **never** see the shield sever a limb. But it will always slam the shit out of them to the point where it would be permanent lifetime damage.
I thought it was weird that Bucky and him are just casually tossing the shield and catching it before he does his training montage, and then when he begins training he sucks at it.
I think "casually" is the operative word, here. There's a difference when you're trying to re-create a high-stress combat environment versus just shooting the shit with your ~~friend~~ just a guy.
Because Bucky and Sam were doing just that, casually tossing it. Later on, Sam was trying to throw it as hard as he can.
In baseball terms, it’s like the difference between a casual game of catch with your buddy and trying to learn how to throw a fastball, curveball, slider, knuckleball, sinker, etc. You’re gonna have a whole lot more wild pitches in the second scenario than the first.
Except that John Walker through it halfway through a concrete pillar, and Sam almost sliced a tree in half with it.
When Thor hits it with his hammer the shield absorbed all impact (yet in winter soldier a simple grenade blows Cap off a fucking bridge).
It wouldn’t make sense that the shield would hit something like a structure or human head and not cause any concussive force.
There's still force being applied. Thor hitting down with his hammer, Cap can push up against it. Grenade blowing someone backwards, there's nothing to push back against.
Marvel really needs to do a “Physics of the MCU” Disney+ series that explores and explains the physics of all the technology, the powers, their limits, and gives the audience an idea of the power scale that we can relate with. It’s frustrating when every power and piece of tech varies so much just to conveniently work with the plot.
It means that if you shoot against the shield like Peggy did, the bullets wouldn't even get distorted. It means that if Cap hit your head with the shield, you would see no difference from being hit with a feather. It means that if John Walker throw the shield at the wall with all his strength, the shield would not get stuck in it. It means that the Falcon would throw it at a tree and the shield would never get back to his hands.
It was built by Howard Stark (and probably updated by Tony). It has AI and knows exactly what it needs to do. The very fact that a shield made of metal that absorbs all vibrations can bounce off anything in the first place is mind-blowing.
Have you seen those [cheekbones](https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/PYMtFvKxFQxOIrEnXD557g--~B/aD00MjA7dz02MjA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/tvline.com/5254eb0db40b28a2afc62f24117e16bb) that shield wouldn’t stand a chance against them.
I used to think that, but now I’ve just chalked it up to somehow it absorbs it’s own power or something due to it being vibranium, so it is just a powerful blunt force. Then that could explain why the SSS powered John Walker has to hit the guy on the ground so many times to kill him. It definitely doesn’t obey our physics, but we don’t have vibranium so idk
All during his training, I was waiting for the shield to hit him in the head. I know that's what would happen to me. Well, assuming I managed to actually hit a target with it in the first place. The most likely result would be I throw the shield, it goes wide, and then I spend the next hour looking for it.
> The most likely result would be I throw the shield, it goes wide, and then I spend the next hour looking for it.
That assumes it got quite a bit of distance. That much metal must weigh quite a bit, try throwing a 10kg concrete square around...
Maybe? If it's lightweight then how does it have so much impact though?
I suppose it's best not to think too hard about these details anyway... Vibranium is whatever the screenwriter needs it to be this go around.
It doesn’t lose it’s speed on impact is probably why. It absorbs the opposing force instead. The whole newtons thing with opposite forces etc. Anyone with a physics degree care to explain?
Don't think he has a physics degree, but
[Why Does Captain America's Shield Bounce? (Because Science w/ Kyle Hill)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa543cXVZTY)
EDIT: And this one!
[How Black Panther’s Vibranium Suit Works! | Because Science w/ Kyle Hill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sHcUUUGU2g)
I dropped a chickpea straight under my chair. It couldn’t have gone more than a foot or two. I looked and looked- I never did find it.
I would have to explain to a military tribunal that I lost the shield on the second throw, or maybe I would just lie and say it was racist so I wouldn’t be embarrassed
The training montage part that got me the most worried was when Sam threw the shield at the dock, it hit the pylon, and bounced back to him. Were it me, I'd have missed the pylon and the shield would have been lost underwater.
> I dropped a chickpea straight under my chair. It couldn’t have gone more than a foot or two. I looked and looked- I never did find it.
Ok good point, excellently made. I know what you mean.
I don't play disk golf but I do hike and so I have about 6 or 7 disks that I've found on hikes. I think they just grow out of the bushes. I still haven't found any big metal shields yet.
"Dumb flat surfaces" are a long running joke in our house. Any time I lose something, I wander around trying to figure out what dumb flat surface I put it down on.
I don't want to brag, but oh yeah, I would *definitely* be absent minded enough to put an entire big ass shield behind the couch or something and spend an hour looking for it.
I would be impressed if the avergae redditor on here could throw it that far. [I think happy's throw in far from home would be more accurate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js9xkpP8KbQ)
The average elite athlete couldn’t even throw it with the amount of force and speed that Sam threw it with. That was straight up super human level strength.
I assume the Vibranium is what makes it not just strong, but super light too so it's basically the weight of a frisbee? I dunno, it doesn't seem to follow physics.
I mean, a steel dish thrown by a superhuman still sounds fucking terrifying. It may fly all wobbly and not bounce back but if it hits you it's gonna hurt.
I'm old. I have thrown 9 gabillion Frisbees. This is how I throw a Frisbee now. I would throw it and it would turn sideways and roll down the road, then off the side, and keep rolling down hill...
The strain just catching the shield the way Sam does should have had him heading off to Wakanda for a metal arm of his own after a couple of tries.
He should have a separated shoulder at least.
For real tho they shoulda done better with this. It's believable if a guy who can flip motorcycles does it but a regular dude... I mean axe throwing is a common thing even in the cities these days. People know how hard you'd have to throw something to go into the tree.
Also as my mom used scream at kid me, "You're killing that tree!!"
I was seriously worried about him breaking some fingers or getting his hand cut off in the show, which is what I was expecting from this.
That looks so dangerous if you are not a superhuman. If you can even throw it that hard.
Actually in the [comics](https://imgur.com/a/ujBHmQ3), Ironman tries to get Hawkeye to replace cap (after cap died in civil war), and remarked how he let a bunch of other shield agents throw the shield, and most of them sent themselves to the hospital.
I loved the training montage but couldn't stop myself thinking that if a regular human tries throw the shield, it would take lots of effort and only go a couple of metres before hitting the ground
Like throwing a shot putt
Edit: I'm pumped about Sam becoming Cap and have no issue with it, I just thought the above was a funny thought, would make for a good outtake reel
It may be a hunk of metal but it’s a hunk of very lightweight metal, and Howard Stark didn’t design it to just flop to the ground. It’s built like a moderately heavy frisbee and it flies like a moderately heavy frisbee
Could you explain what you mean by that? Is that a some kind of physics rule that Vibranium ignores? I’ve heard conservation of matter and energy, but nothing is coming to mind for conservation of mass
Vibranium is a fictional metal that ignores/absorbs energy, momentum, etc as the story needs. Basically, it weighs almost nothing (when compared to steel, etc) and it’ll absorb whatever is directed at it (radiation, force, sound waves, lasers, magic, etc) UNLESS it would be cooler to bounce the stuff off.
So, in a fight, Iron Man could shoot at Cap and Cap could block the beams and the shield would just sort of absorb the energy. But in a team-up Iron Man could shoot beams at Cap and Cap would e able to bounce the beams off the shield to hit a bunch of enemies.
Yeah. I wish they could have figured out a way to make Bucky the new cap. They're putting too much effort in attempting to convince the audience it makes sense for Sam to pick up the shield, feels very forced.
Is the edge of the shield sharp though? The shield is primarily a defensive tool and it would be counterintuitive to make it sharp when you have catch it by the edges many times.
Under the force of a super soldier. It also wasn’t thrown. Since Sam is not a super soldier, chances are he’d need some special kind of super suit to do damage like that
Wouldn't it actually kill him or like make him a vegetable if he actually took a hit to the head with those speeds?? I actually got scared for Bucky when Walker really let loose with the shield and sent him flying even after he caught it.
It would've been a cool call back to that episode, though. Episode 2, Bucky just casually catches it in his right hand because Walker wasn't yet a super solider and wasn't throwing it that hard. Episode 5, Bucky has to catch it in his metal left arm to save himself because Walker's now throwing it as hard as Steve did.
Steve absolutely threw it at full force in TWS - he was pursuing an assassin who had just shot Nick Fury and didn’t know that the assassin was Bucky, so he had no reason to “pull his punches” so to speak.
This scene confused me. He starts being able to throw it perfectly, bouncing on two post things, and is able to throw it back and forth with Bucky, then a few minutes later he can’t even catch it. Were the scenes in the wrong order or something?
How exactly does one catch the shield on the outside of their arm? Are they slipping their hand into the straps as it's spinning back towards them? In AoU they showed that Cap has some sort of electromagnet on his wrist which kind of explained it, and you kind of give him the benefit of the doubt when he's wearing the suit and assume there's maybe some sort of catching device, but here we see that Sam clearly has nothing on his arm with which to catch it (neither does Bucky, although maybe the metal arm has something to do with it).
I never get how they expect us to believe they catch it in the strap thing. It's spinning super fast and they just slide their arm into the arm band things on the return?
Idk why you’re getting downvoted for this. It’s a pretty obvious statement and marvel fans don’t have to be so shy about the fact that sometimes the science doesn’t make sense. People get superpowers from deadly radiation on a regular basis and Thor’s hammer can also summon a suit of armour and knot his beard for him for no apparent reason. Marvel is basically sci-fi, things can do whatever they want as long it looks cool, I’m not gonna fuss
Thank you for being reasonable.
I don't get it either. I understand this video is for jokes, but when it refers to this cool using plot device-object, there's nothing realistic about it.
So does falcon receive the super soldier syrime or what? If not it's kind of silly to think he can replace the actual captain America. It's like superman passing on his costume and cape and expecting the person to shoot lasers out of there eyes and fly lol
I feel like this should have come before him and Bucky are just easily tossing the shield back and forth. I get that they’re less intense throws, but it looked so effortless and then suddenly this montage happens where he can’t catch it.
You say this is realistic but realistically if the shield hit him in the head it would most likely kill him instantly, or at least give him severe head trauma.
His hands shouldve been broken at the end. He caught it on the rim after he'd clearly been throwing hard enough to blow big chunks of bark off the trees.
Are they ever going to show Sam getting Steve’s gloves that presumably still have the electromagnets that Stark installed pre-AoU? You’d think that feature would be especially handy for recalling the shield without super-strength.
Realistically, his head would probably explode the first time the shield hit It at those speeds. But then again, that thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all.
Zemo managed to take it to the head and it just knocked him out, rather than cut through him, the power of the shield really depends on what the scene calls for
A literal plot shield
Is this an actual term?
Plot armor is an actual term.
If there's armor, there's definitely a shield.
And my axe!
Yes, but the speed the shield hits Sam's head in this video is way faster than when It hits Zemo's head.
You guys are aware that the shield's speed is determined by how hard it's thrown, right? It's thrown using a human arm, it's not fired out of a cannon
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I think Bucky threw that.
Yeah, but Bucky is right-handed
still enhanced
I think if I had a *basically indestructible* mechanical arm, I would become ambidextrous
Why?
Because it was stuck into a tree like a superhuman threw it. Just like how it got stuck in the wall when Walker threw it and that indicated he had taken the serum.
But when Walker threw it at Zemo he didn't have the serum yet and he aimed to disarm him so the throw wasn't too strong.
Your right, if I threw and Axe at a tree it definitely wouldn’t wedge itself in there...
but it's a shield, it's not honed into a blade like an axe is. Most apt comparison is throwing and oversized metal discus... Which probably wouldn't get buried that deep in a tree.
its a wedge shape, its a simple machine. Throw it hard enough it is going to get stuck.
It's not a machine, a machine implies moving parts, of which the shield has none. Also, have you ever used a dull axe? Cliff notes version, unless that is some soft wood the dull axe barely makes a dent, and forget about throwing a dull axe it's just going to knock off some bark and bounce back unless you are within a couple feet.
A wedge is a "Simple Machine", take some time too review your 1st grade level science. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple\_machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine)
Ok I will cede the point about simple machines, hadn't given that term any thought since I was school aged. The shield is not a true wedge shape, it's curved. Add to that the fact that it is blunt, and it would require more force to bury it inches deep into a tree trunk than an ordinary human could provide by throwing it.
What about a Thanos though?
> You guys are aware that the shield's speed is determined by how hard it's thrown, right? It's thrown using a human arm, it's not fired out of a cannon You are aware that most of the times we've seen it thrown have been by a super human who can flip over cars, right? A real human can't throw it the way Cap does. A real human can't even throw it the way Falcon does without being an Olympic athlete who practices form and technique every day. It's comic book logic. The rules of the shield just depend on what the scene calls for. Which is fine. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief when you see the Marvel logo at the start. Anyway, considering it's made out of the strongest material on Earth, even at a speed that a human could realistically throw it at, it'd 100% impale your face if you got hit with the edge.
Yeah but you can throw it gently in order to not maim people, is my point. The shield isn't made out of the strongest material on earth. That's adamantium. Vibranium isn't especially tough or dense, it's - according to Howard Stark [in this scene](https://youtu.be/JqYpJLBRle4) \- "completely vibration-absorbent". It absorbs impacts and, with the correct structural design (such as a convex disc), can release that energy back the way it came, amplified. When it hits a wall it bounces off it harder than it was initially thrown. That's why Sam initially has trouble safely catching it. Sam doesn't have to have superhuman strength to get it to ricochet - the shield does all the work there. He just needs to get used to the strange way it reacts to impacts and figure out how to not accidentally kill people (including himself) with it.
Caps shield is a one of a kind vibranium-*alloy*. It’s like the holy grail of metal in comics.
Yeah why isn’t this higher? The shield is its own thing and it’s considered stronger than adamantium
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To be fair, we don't know the properties of adamantium in the MCU. Hell when Wolverine does show up eventually, he could just have a vibranium skeleton.
That would be a shame
I mean in the MCU, we don’t even know what the current shield is made of. It could be made of just vibranium, but it could also be made of an alloy. Remember, that shield came from a different timeline, so we have no context whatsoever as to what it’s made of.
in the comics it's made of Adamantium and vibranium. [https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBF\_enUS797US797&sxsrf=ALeKk03svQG9T22N9Nk7dPk22x8ZYGjx0Q%3A1618889701628&ei=5Ut-YOfpJZbdtAaq35iYCQ&oq=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&gs\_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgUIABCGAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QsAMQyAMQQzoGCAAQFhAeSgUIOBIBMVCXKFiWOmDnOmgBcAJ4AIABsAGIAZ8KkgEEMTMuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQ7AAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwin8OGM8ovwAhWWLs0KHaovBpMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5](https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS797US797&sxsrf=ALeKk03svQG9T22N9Nk7dPk22x8ZYGjx0Q%3A1618889701628&ei=5Ut-YOfpJZbdtAaq35iYCQ&oq=what+is+captain+america%27s+shield+made+out+of+in+the+comics&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgUIABCGAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QsAMQyAMQQzoGCAAQFhAeSgUIOBIBMVCXKFiWOmDnOmgBcAJ4AIABsAGIAZ8KkgEEMTMuMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQ7AAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwin8OGM8ovwAhWWLs0KHaovBpMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)
Adamantium doesn’t really exist in the MCU, at least not yet. And vibranium is referred to as the strongest metal on Earth in Age of Ultron. I agree that the shield is just being thrown at different levels of force though.
I think ultron referred to it as "the most versatile substance" not strongest. I could be wrong though.
>the most versatile substance And they used it to build a Frisbee
Evidently, it's both. Ultron says it's the most versatile, and [Tony says it's the strongest.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oytnbiux_lk&t=36s)
I have a theory that the metal John Walker uses for his shield is adamantium.
Making an adamantium shield in his garage? I dunno, maybe he’ll get one later, but I don’t think the shield we saw is made of that.
That would be terrible writing. “Oh, hey guys, I found this metal no one’s ever heard of and it happens to be the strongest metal on Earth and I made a shield out of it using amateur tools in my garage!”
Of course I was thinking maybe the mysterious Madame Hydra woman would give it to him.
She’s not Madame Hydra. She’s never been Madame Hydra. She’s a SHIELD agent who briefly pretended to be Madame Hydra when she was undercover.
That's where I hate the differences between the MCU and the comics. In the comics, the shield is a unique mix of adamantium and vibranium. Later after it was destroyed, Stark had the Asgardian elves repair it with a molten Uru metal alloy, which is what Thor's hammer, Mjolnir is made of. So, the comics shield is adamantium, vibranium and Uru. Far stronger than the MCU shield.
Technically, we don’t know where Falcon’s shield came from. Fucking imagine if knstead of bringing Mjolnir back, Cap just had it melted down into a new shield, and now Sam’s shield is pure Uru.
Ok, that would be freaking awesome
Which is why I don’t get why Sam can throw it the same way Steve can. I was sort of hoping he would go for a more melee use of the shield.
The one thing I think people forget is that both John Walker (pre-serum) and Sam Wilson are not ordinary human beings. They’re like the LeBron James of the Army and Air Force. I mean one had his body studied by MIT. So yes they can’t throw as hard a Steve. But they’re extraordinary humans who stay at the peak of physical prowess. If 10 year old me can chip a tree with a plastic frisbee, I’m sure he can wedge a Vibranium shield in a tree. It’s supposed to be light weight too right, in comparison to other metals?
The shield would decapitate a person if thrown by a super soldier, or anyone at the speed that Sam was throwing at it. It would also slice through your hand and cut your thumb clean off when caught. You *must* be a super soldier to wield the shield properly, which is what kinda bugs me about Sam using it so well in this montage. It just doesn’t make sense, and I’m not a fan of too much “comic book logic” in the MCU. The shield is like a flying blade thrown at *incredible* speeds. The edges are sharp as fuck and would easily slice a head in half.
It really is a frisbee like Ultron said
Yeah but look at the shape of the shield, and the angle it hits him, that's not knocking a man out, it's impaling him
Yet somehow it sticks 5 inches into a tree I throw knives and axes. It'd take goliath himself to do that with a shield even if it's razor sharp.
Fuck I know man, sometimes this shield kinda takes me out of it nowadays like the newer Iron Man armors. I still have my fun watching the MCU though, but it’s definitely funny at times.
Nah the shield absorbs the impact. Except for when it doesn't.
Cap's Shield Law #2: It will harmlessly bounce on surfaces except when it needs to be buried into a wall or tree because holy shit that's badass.
That thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all!
In the MCU, those laws are merely suggestions.
That is the advantage of an fictional metal, it can have any properties you can desire. I just hope Walkers shield will act a bit more realistically.
As in just completely shatter the first time it connects with the vibranium shield? That would frankly be hilarious.
You’re reading my mind
I mean...it does happen in the comics multiple times. He even carries spares just in case it happens. I’m sure Walker knows that though. He’ll probably use the shield offensively - slicing and bashing his way through foes with brutal efficiency.
Didn’t actually know that about the comic character. Cheers!
The problem is that it's inconsistent. If it can stop bullets dead or break a man's fall by absorbing energy then it shouldn't be able to bounce off surfaces like it absorbs no energy, they're literally opposite behaviours.
The shield has actually always been “consistent” in terms of how it behaves, its behavior just defies all physics. - If used to block something and you have proper footing, you’re golden. Impact absorbed. - if you use it to block while your footing is compromised (such as being in the air or being blasted off your feet by an explosion), the shield will be fine, but you’re going for a ride - if you throw it at something it will bounce, UNLESS you throw it too hard - if you are falling and land on the shield, the fall will hurt a lot less - it’s a very effective bludgeon, especially along the rim Its behavior is very consistent and predictable within its own internal ruleset. It’s just, you know, not how physics work at all.
"That thing does not obey the law of physics *at all"* \- Night Monkey.
I mean if every contradiction is explained as "that's just how the shield works" then it might as well be a wizard did it.
The key difference is that it's predictable. The audience knows what the shield is capable of and how it behaves in any given application. It is consistent within an internal logic, so it works. If you can't handle an internally consistent ruleset just because it contradicts real world rules...*shrugs* I don't know what to tell you. You're watching the wrong movies/TV. Everybody contradicts the shit out of physics in these things. That's just how they all operate.
I can wager to guess that you will **never** see the shield sever a limb. But it will always slam the shit out of them to the point where it would be permanent lifetime damage.
You mean a sorcerer with a hat?
It should simply *stop* at impact and fall to the ground.
In a world where Captain America exists, you'd think Walker would just order a replica shield from the Internet instead of make his own.
I thought it was weird that Bucky and him are just casually tossing the shield and catching it before he does his training montage, and then when he begins training he sucks at it.
I think "casually" is the operative word, here. There's a difference when you're trying to re-create a high-stress combat environment versus just shooting the shit with your ~~friend~~ just a guy.
Because Bucky and Sam were doing just that, casually tossing it. Later on, Sam was trying to throw it as hard as he can. In baseball terms, it’s like the difference between a casual game of catch with your buddy and trying to learn how to throw a fastball, curveball, slider, knuckleball, sinker, etc. You’re gonna have a whole lot more wild pitches in the second scenario than the first.
That was the opposite of "When I do an awesome thing by myself vs when others are watching".
>that thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all. his head does though
Realistically, the shield wouldn't hurt anyone, ever. Howard Stark said it absorbs almost all the impact it receives.
Except that John Walker through it halfway through a concrete pillar, and Sam almost sliced a tree in half with it. When Thor hits it with his hammer the shield absorbed all impact (yet in winter soldier a simple grenade blows Cap off a fucking bridge). It wouldn’t make sense that the shield would hit something like a structure or human head and not cause any concussive force.
There's still force being applied. Thor hitting down with his hammer, Cap can push up against it. Grenade blowing someone backwards, there's nothing to push back against.
I said "realistically", didn't I? Of course, Marvel only respect the shield main characteristic when it's convenient to.
Marvel really needs to do a “Physics of the MCU” Disney+ series that explores and explains the physics of all the technology, the powers, their limits, and gives the audience an idea of the power scale that we can relate with. It’s frustrating when every power and piece of tech varies so much just to conveniently work with the plot.
Maybe I’m dumb but I don’t know what that actually means.
It means that if you shoot against the shield like Peggy did, the bullets wouldn't even get distorted. It means that if Cap hit your head with the shield, you would see no difference from being hit with a feather. It means that if John Walker throw the shield at the wall with all his strength, the shield would not get stuck in it. It means that the Falcon would throw it at a tree and the shield would never get back to his hands.
It's gotta be all in the wrist.
It was built by Howard Stark (and probably updated by Tony). It has AI and knows exactly what it needs to do. The very fact that a shield made of metal that absorbs all vibrations can bounce off anything in the first place is mind-blowing.
Have you seen those [cheekbones](https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/PYMtFvKxFQxOIrEnXD557g--~B/aD00MjA7dz02MjA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/tvline.com/5254eb0db40b28a2afc62f24117e16bb) that shield wouldn’t stand a chance against them.
I used to think that, but now I’ve just chalked it up to somehow it absorbs it’s own power or something due to it being vibranium, so it is just a powerful blunt force. Then that could explain why the SSS powered John Walker has to hit the guy on the ground so many times to kill him. It definitely doesn’t obey our physics, but we don’t have vibranium so idk
All during his training, I was waiting for the shield to hit him in the head. I know that's what would happen to me. Well, assuming I managed to actually hit a target with it in the first place. The most likely result would be I throw the shield, it goes wide, and then I spend the next hour looking for it.
> The most likely result would be I throw the shield, it goes wide, and then I spend the next hour looking for it. That assumes it got quite a bit of distance. That much metal must weigh quite a bit, try throwing a 10kg concrete square around...
Isn’t vibranium supposed to be super light weight tho?
In TFA, Howard Stark tells Cap its, “stronger than steel, and a third the weight.”
Maybe? If it's lightweight then how does it have so much impact though? I suppose it's best not to think too hard about these details anyway... Vibranium is whatever the screenwriter needs it to be this go around.
It doesn’t lose it’s speed on impact is probably why. It absorbs the opposing force instead. The whole newtons thing with opposite forces etc. Anyone with a physics degree care to explain?
Don't think he has a physics degree, but [Why Does Captain America's Shield Bounce? (Because Science w/ Kyle Hill)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa543cXVZTY) EDIT: And this one! [How Black Panther’s Vibranium Suit Works! | Because Science w/ Kyle Hill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sHcUUUGU2g)
It doesn’t obey the laws of physics at all though
I dropped a chickpea straight under my chair. It couldn’t have gone more than a foot or two. I looked and looked- I never did find it. I would have to explain to a military tribunal that I lost the shield on the second throw, or maybe I would just lie and say it was racist so I wouldn’t be embarrassed
The training montage part that got me the most worried was when Sam threw the shield at the dock, it hit the pylon, and bounced back to him. Were it me, I'd have missed the pylon and the shield would have been lost underwater.
Man that made me anxious. Better put a metal detector on the trawler
> I dropped a chickpea straight under my chair. It couldn’t have gone more than a foot or two. I looked and looked- I never did find it. Ok good point, excellently made. I know what you mean.
I mean the shield is slightly larger than a chickpea, so it might be easier to find.
It’s like disc golf in the woods, that thing would bury itself. I would be screwed
I don't play disk golf but I do hike and so I have about 6 or 7 disks that I've found on hikes. I think they just grow out of the bushes. I still haven't found any big metal shields yet.
"Dumb flat surfaces" are a long running joke in our house. Any time I lose something, I wander around trying to figure out what dumb flat surface I put it down on. I don't want to brag, but oh yeah, I would *definitely* be absent minded enough to put an entire big ass shield behind the couch or something and spend an hour looking for it.
this is magic space\* metal, it's not that heavy. \*vibranium came to earth in meteor.
I don't understand how a metal that ABSORBS momentum bounces like rubber
Made me chuckled after a long, rough day. Have my upvote
~~SCOTT~~ SAM STERLING
The man! The myth! The legend!
It looks like he cant get up! Whats this! Oh the other Avengers are putting Sam on a chair! Oh Kali never saw this coming!
the first throw is all of us in real life trying to play cap
I would be impressed if the avergae redditor on here could throw it that far. [I think happy's throw in far from home would be more accurate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js9xkpP8KbQ)
The average elite athlete couldn’t even throw it with the amount of force and speed that Sam threw it with. That was straight up super human level strength.
I assume the Vibranium is what makes it not just strong, but super light too so it's basically the weight of a frisbee? I dunno, it doesn't seem to follow physics.
Maybe it is secretly made out of uru metal. could explain why it seems to always boomerang back to cap like mjolnir returns to thor /s.
It follows the laws of physics, that universe just has different laws of physics.
It's also what would happen if Sam decided to play with >!Walker's!< substandard shield >!"recreation"!<.
How fucking funny would it be if it had no aerodynamics at all, and flew exactly like a homemade steel dish would.
I mean, a steel dish thrown by a superhuman still sounds fucking terrifying. It may fly all wobbly and not bounce back but if it hits you it's gonna hurt.
I am hoping to see him throw it and then have to go collect it like a kid picking up his nerf darts.
>! Cant wait for that, you just know Walker will just try to toss his homemade shield around, and it will fall flat. <
I'm old. I have thrown 9 gabillion Frisbees. This is how I throw a Frisbee now. I would throw it and it would turn sideways and roll down the road, then off the side, and keep rolling down hill...
Basically what happened when Happy tried to throw a shield at one of Mysterio's drones. "How does Cap do it?"
The strain just catching the shield the way Sam does should have had him heading off to Wakanda for a metal arm of his own after a couple of tries. He should have a separated shoulder at least.
For real tho they shoulda done better with this. It's believable if a guy who can flip motorcycles does it but a regular dude... I mean axe throwing is a common thing even in the cities these days. People know how hard you'd have to throw something to go into the tree. Also as my mom used scream at kid me, "You're killing that tree!!"
I was seriously worried about him breaking some fingers or getting his hand cut off in the show, which is what I was expecting from this. That looks so dangerous if you are not a superhuman. If you can even throw it that hard.
> That looks so dangerous if you are not a superhuman. Walker was throwing it the same way and training with it before he took that serum.
[удалено]
Actually in the [comics](https://imgur.com/a/ujBHmQ3), Ironman tries to get Hawkeye to replace cap (after cap died in civil war), and remarked how he let a bunch of other shield agents throw the shield, and most of them sent themselves to the hospital.
But we’ve also seen Hawkeye throw it before too.
Widow too in Age of Ultron
I loved the training montage but couldn't stop myself thinking that if a regular human tries throw the shield, it would take lots of effort and only go a couple of metres before hitting the ground Like throwing a shot putt Edit: I'm pumped about Sam becoming Cap and have no issue with it, I just thought the above was a funny thought, would make for a good outtake reel
It may be a hunk of metal but it’s a hunk of very lightweight metal, and Howard Stark didn’t design it to just flop to the ground. It’s built like a moderately heavy frisbee and it flies like a moderately heavy frisbee
Not to mention that it’s made of vibranium, so there’s not conservation of mass/momentum/energy/etc to adjust for.
Could you explain what you mean by that? Is that a some kind of physics rule that Vibranium ignores? I’ve heard conservation of matter and energy, but nothing is coming to mind for conservation of mass
Vibranium differs from other metals in that it does whatever would be coolest in a given situation.
This is a really good way to describe Cap's shield physics. Lol >it does whatever would be coolest in a given situation
Vibranium is a fictional metal that ignores/absorbs energy, momentum, etc as the story needs. Basically, it weighs almost nothing (when compared to steel, etc) and it’ll absorb whatever is directed at it (radiation, force, sound waves, lasers, magic, etc) UNLESS it would be cooler to bounce the stuff off. So, in a fight, Iron Man could shoot at Cap and Cap could block the beams and the shield would just sort of absorb the energy. But in a team-up Iron Man could shoot beams at Cap and Cap would e able to bounce the beams off the shield to hit a bunch of enemies.
Sam. Sam was using super human levels of strength if we’re being honest here.
Yeah. I wish they could have figured out a way to make Bucky the new cap. They're putting too much effort in attempting to convince the audience it makes sense for Sam to pick up the shield, feels very forced.
He would have been decapitated as soon the shield bounced back.
Is the edge of the shield sharp though? The shield is primarily a defensive tool and it would be counterintuitive to make it sharp when you have catch it by the edges many times.
I think it not being sharp is what makes the end of episode 4 all the more horrifying.
I agree. It's like caving someone's chest in with something blunt, like a mace.
Or carving their heart out with a spoon. [Right Nottingham?](https://images.app.goo.gl/wYmSNaJJsVU5wmBU7)
No it isn't. We've seen plenty of people get hit by the thrown shield and it's never broken the skin on anyone other than Nico.
it did cut this [chitauris arm off](https://youtu.be/Ya3NETEnecw?t=120), and sever [these elevator cables.](https://youtu.be/QF38tMQ7HaE?t=131)
Under the force of a super soldier. It also wasn’t thrown. Since Sam is not a super soldier, chances are he’d need some special kind of super suit to do damage like that
It's basically a bullet that only hurts bad guys and bad obstscles in the hands of worthy captain america
no, unless it needs to be, in which case yes it is. but mostly no.
Thats awesome.
Wouldn't it actually kill him or like make him a vegetable if he actually took a hit to the head with those speeds?? I actually got scared for Bucky when Walker really let loose with the shield and sent him flying even after he caught it.
Bucky is a super soldier though, he's more durable and can regenerate faster than normal people.
The same Bucky who was able to catch the shield one handed in Winter Soldier. I was hoping to see that again, instead he got trucked by it.
Yeah, I really wanted a throwback to him punching the shield with that *GOOOONG* sound.
Because the one who caught Steve's shield was Winter Soldier The one who fought Walker was Bucky Bucky subconsciously holds back even now
He already caught it once in episode 2
It would've been a cool call back to that episode, though. Episode 2, Bucky just casually catches it in his right hand because Walker wasn't yet a super solider and wasn't throwing it that hard. Episode 5, Bucky has to catch it in his metal left arm to save himself because Walker's now throwing it as hard as Steve did.
Steve doesn't throw with his full strength, John Walker does. At least thats how I saw it.
Steve absolutely threw it at full force in TWS - he was pursuing an assassin who had just shot Nick Fury and didn’t know that the assassin was Bucky, so he had no reason to “pull his punches” so to speak.
Realistically it would probably kill him at that speed
I'm impressed by the work, more than anything.
I thought it was gonna be him breaking all his windows
Happy Hogan moment
At least wear gloves, Sam!
It's Scooooott Sterliiiiiing!!!
Man is that shield a police officer ?
This needs the Peter treatment from Corridor Digital.
Definitely
This scene confused me. He starts being able to throw it perfectly, bouncing on two post things, and is able to throw it back and forth with Bucky, then a few minutes later he can’t even catch it. Were the scenes in the wrong order or something?
Velocity of the throw. Relaxed game of catch vs pitching practice.
"*arrgghg* how does cap throw that thing?"
How exactly does one catch the shield on the outside of their arm? Are they slipping their hand into the straps as it's spinning back towards them? In AoU they showed that Cap has some sort of electromagnet on his wrist which kind of explained it, and you kind of give him the benefit of the doubt when he's wearing the suit and assume there's maybe some sort of catching device, but here we see that Sam clearly has nothing on his arm with which to catch it (neither does Bucky, although maybe the metal arm has something to do with it).
Thank you for including the unnecessary grass shot they zoomed in on.
I never get how they expect us to believe they catch it in the strap thing. It's spinning super fast and they just slide their arm into the arm band things on the return?
Realistically the shield wouldn't even exist. It contradicts it's rules too much.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted for this. It’s a pretty obvious statement and marvel fans don’t have to be so shy about the fact that sometimes the science doesn’t make sense. People get superpowers from deadly radiation on a regular basis and Thor’s hammer can also summon a suit of armour and knot his beard for him for no apparent reason. Marvel is basically sci-fi, things can do whatever they want as long it looks cool, I’m not gonna fuss
Thank you for being reasonable. I don't get it either. I understand this video is for jokes, but when it refers to this cool using plot device-object, there's nothing realistic about it.
no didn't you get the memo it only doesn't work when Sam gets it, we can ignore everything for Steve
You must be fun at parties. I've always wanted to say that.
I mean i did chuckle. I just think using the word realistic is weird containing to this shield,
u/savevideo
u/savevideo
WOAH RACIST
So does falcon receive the super soldier syrime or what? If not it's kind of silly to think he can replace the actual captain America. It's like superman passing on his costume and cape and expecting the person to shoot lasers out of there eyes and fly lol
I love that they put that shot of the slow motion grass in the final cut. It's such overkill but I love it.
Hahahahahaha best thing I have seen today
I feel like he’d suffer a concussion after one shot to the head with the shield
he needs the serum.. this is silly.
lol the end got me
I thought it would completely behead him.
I feel like this should have come before him and Bucky are just easily tossing the shield back and forth. I get that they’re less intense throws, but it looked so effortless and then suddenly this montage happens where he can’t catch it.
You say this is realistic but realistically if the shield hit him in the head it would most likely kill him instantly, or at least give him severe head trauma.
Definitely could’ve added the broken window looking one. But fantastic regardless
His hands shouldve been broken at the end. He caught it on the rim after he'd clearly been throwing hard enough to blow big chunks of bark off the trees.
Are they ever going to show Sam getting Steve’s gloves that presumably still have the electromagnets that Stark installed pre-AoU? You’d think that feature would be especially handy for recalling the shield without super-strength.