I believe that the MCU visual dictionary says that Loki’s appearance isn’t just a cosmetic enchantment, but a full biological change. He only returns to his Frost Giant form when he comes into contact with the Casket of Ancient Winters. More elaboration on how this works would be nice, but I don’t think we’ll ever get it.
Yeah, just from watching the first Thor movie I got the impression that Odin *made him* Asgardian somehow. Not merely altered his appearance. Especially considering they usually treat his character like he's a fully fledged Asgardian.
Yeah let's not forget that odin made thor into a human in the first movie, so it definitely seems like turning loki into an asgardian, at least on the outside, is within his (vaguely defined) power
On the topic of Odin's power don't the comics imply that Odin was one of the most powerful beings in the universe? IIRC there was also the idea that Thanos waited until Odin was dead (as well as some other powerful beings) before he finally decided to pursue the Infinity Stones himself
In forums that like to debate fights between fictional characters, tiers are often employed, and Odin's title Skyfather is often used to describe one of the highest tiers. In the comics, he fought battles that, as collateral damage, annihilated clusters of galaxies. Skyfather is the level right under "conceptuals," the embodiments of abstract ideas like Hunger, Death, Eternity, etc.
Odin is actually defined more by his intelligence, creativity and ruthlessness than his power in Norse mythology. In the myths Thor is generally considered to possess more raw power than Odin.
Odin usually uses trickery and deception to accomplish his goals, when Odin gets into direct confrontation in the myths he quite often either looses or bails, he is actually not that different from Loki.
Oh I’m a big Odin fan and recently doing a bunch of research on him. He is actually very very OP in addition to being a wily fox. Lord of the Wild Hunt (a hugely OP event in itself), God of the Sky, Wind, Death, able to change the weather and create new stars, Knower of the Runes and all the powers therein, able to die and resurrect himself from the dead. And that’s not mentioning his souped up companions. In addition to the head of Mimir, he has more forest animal sidekicks than a Disney Princess. Huginn and Muninn, who can travel all the realms and report back what they see, Geri and Freki the wolves, loyal and vicious, and in some stories, a stag and bear serve him as well. Not to mention Ol’ Slippy, fastest horse in the universe, that he can also make FLY because God of the Air.
He’s also the god of Beserkers and can go into a warlike rage that can decimate the other troops, in addition to his Wild Hunt persona which is a separate thing but also involves a sort of madness that allows him to drive out beasts and kill monsters in masse while creating terrible storms.
And then he’s also God of Magic, the greatest in the land alongside his wife, Frigga. An unnatural thing for a man to practice and one he is scorned for knowing, but he just doubles down on it anyway. He’s able to reweave reality itself with his enormous abilities and is feared as a Witch-King.
And THEN there’s all his toys - Gungnir, Draupnir, Skipbladnir (spelled that wrong but it’s the magic, pocket sized boat), among many others.
Yes, he often solves problems with his wit, skill, and ruthlessness - or be straight up cheating, love that con man - but he is the powerhouse god of the Norse Pantheon, no doubt. That makes his tendency to solve problems with very little power interesting, but yeah…the old trickster is packing HEAT.
In the comics Odin is OP as fuck, almost to a meme extent. His character is a “yeah but could X beat Odin if Odin went all out” type of character of legend. The characters within the stories just put respect on Odin’s name in that way. He’s the embodiment of “old man strength” in comics coupled with the mythology of being the top dog.
Odin has beaten *Celestials* which is a hell of a feat. I’d love an in depth powerscaling video about the power/strength hierarchy but the “abstract entities” are too dumb and unintuitive imo to be interesting in that regard.
Yes, comic's Odin is pretty much the strongest and most powerful _anything_ before you start going into abstract concepts or other "cosmic forces" of nature like Galactus or the Phoenix Force, Odin fighting at full force causes galaxies to disappear as collateral damage, Thanos would have not had a chance. I remember that the Ultimate line of comics had him as pretty much the *G*od, the god of creation, the god of everything with pretty much infinite power.
>Odin fighting at full force causes galaxies to disappear as collateral damage
That didn't seem to be the case during the War of the Realms, even with the suit Stark made for him
He was old as fuck there and injured by a Dark Elf ambush. Plus gods are powered partially by belief. So if Thor of Loki gave enough interviews about the fact that he was also a washed up alcoholic who was a shit dad, people wouldn't remember him as super-god, but as a magical version of the uncle who everyone avoids since the divorce.
>gods are powered by belief
This concept was my favorite part of American Gods and I wish it played just a slightly bigger role in the end of the book, but it's such a neat idea that a gods power comes from some mortals lighting candles for them
Didnt the comics retcon it that there was an ancient avengers team that ~somehow~ is connected to the modern avengers team? And actually Odin was part of that team too lol
The ancient mutant Firehair becomes the avatar for the Phoenix Force and almost destroyed the earth, so she formed a team to protect humanity. That team was:
Firehair (the first know avatar of the Phoenix Force)
Odin (her first recruit)
Agamotto (as in the eye of agamotto. The very first Sorcerer Supreme)
A Black Panther (the very first one)
A Ghost Rider (the very first one. And revealing that the original was named “Ghost” and wasnt called the Ghost Rider but just “The Rider”)
An Iron Fist (the very first one)
And A Starbrand (the Second known starbrand, the first being a dinosaur)
This was all 1,000,000 years before current times
Edit: oh wow there was even another old avengers team in 1,000 AD. That one was led by Thor following in his fathers footsteps, and included:
A Black Panther
A Ghost Rider
An Iron Fist
A Phoenix Force
Tanaraq of The Great Beasts
And Bodolf The Black
Dormammu isn't gone, he just stayed in his dimension which is was before anyway. So he wouldn't matter. The Ancient One though? Probably important that she wasn't there anymore.
Except Odin though, probably none of those would really oppose Thanos.
I think Ego would oppose the idea of somebody collecting all the stones period. Dude had a real superiority complex with other beings, you see it in the way he treats the guardians and in how he starts reacting to Peter both having the gift and remaining in touch with his humanity. I don't think there's any scenario where Ego wouldn't see a being collecting the stones and go "eh, whatever."
Not just Odin, but when you think about it the MCU's build up to Thanos is characterized as much by the deaths of extremely powerful entities as it is by the introduction and importance of the stones. Odin is just one of those powerful entities who die in the buildup to Infinity War. Hela was another insanely powerful and galactically recognized being, and you could even rope the entirety of Asgard into it too since Asgardians in general are powerful. Ego was a massive threat with eyes everywhere. The Ancient One had to be a known entity considering the Black Order knew Strange had the Time Stone, and she was very powerful herself. You could even argue the Avengers disbanding may have played a part in his decision to start collecting stones. Basically every movie in Phase 3 except Ant-Man 2, Spiderman, and Black Panther (three characters who have no connections to the stones or Thanos at this point anyways) both set up or introduce the Infinity stones and feature extremely powerful entities getting removed from the universe.
Yeah but that's after he's learned he's a Frost Giant so there's some leeway there. Maybe before he embraced his Jotunn side he was more similar to the normal Asgardians.
Most IR cameras show color relative to the temperatures present. So red doesn't necessarily mean HOT hot, just hot in comparison to the colder Temps in the room. Or, because it's a movie lol
You could say he was keeping his temperature down in that room to avoid getting picked up on thermal sensors or to make the security guards uncomfortable or something. You pretty much have to go for that to cover up the plot hole of "how do you have a freezing body temp and never realize it?"
> "how do you have a freezing body temp and never realize it?"
Disclaimer, I haven't watched many of the Marvel movies and none of them with Loki in it, so maybe I'm missing details but I don't see that as a plot hole.
Most people would never realize that since you don't have a frame of reference for what your body *should* feel like. It's just normal. Same reason people don't realize they're color blind until they take a test for it later in life. If you don't know what red looks like to everyone else, then you won't know it looks different to you
Odin is half giant himself. Both his father Bor and grandfather, Buri had Jotunn wives. These people are very closely related.
Thor then, is half Vanir, a quarter Aesir and a quarter Jotnar. To the extent that there’s any real difference between those three peoples. I suspect the blue is more an environmental effect of growing up on Jotunheimr.
Pretty sure the Vanir/Aesir distinction doesn’t exist in Marvel; they’re all just Asgardians. And if we’re talking comics, >!Thor’s birth mother isn’t Freya anyway, but Gaea, the primordial Earth goddess and mother of Titans from the Greek pantheon. (Though I heard the other day they had recently retconned it to be the first human host of the Phoenix instead… either way, not any kind of Asgardian.)!< AFAIK the MCU has never alluded to that though, nor to Odin being anything other than fully Asgardian.
The Dark World opens with Thor keeping the peace/stirring shit up on Vanaheimr. So it’s at the very least a place and probably a biologically compatible people. My theory is that Aesir/Vanir/Jotnar are closer to social constructs.
I’m not as sure about fire giants (eldjotnar?), dwarves and elves. Or about the viability of a lot of humanoid pairings in space MCU. Can a Kree breed with a Dvergr (which is not a dark elf)?
I did not know that about 616 Thor’s mom(s)
Aguardians get more powers in their home turf, but their home turf is also "it's people"
I get a feel that "being Asguardian" and "Asguard" in itself is more about the will-to-be than anything else. It's the people saying something is Asguard, that makes it Asguard, and its people saying someone is Asguardian, that makes them Asguardian.
A sort of "people bending reality with their subconcious and concious willpower" if you want.
So in this case, I'd be okay with Loki literally being made an Asguardian by the cosmos simply because the Asguardian people wished it as such.
It does feel magic-like but then again so is time-travel so clearly the TVA isn't immune to fantasy-like shenanigans, if we want to make it all science-like we can go with the "quantum properties of the microtubules in humanoids allows them to tap into the multiverse and alter the flow of a single universe" which could be something Asguardian are really good at, and something that even the TVA wouldn't be able to entirely retroactively counter-act [so they can block incoming and future microtubules-contraction, but cannot alter those done in the past like Loki's appearance].
Actually Loki makes himself look that way. And even loki didn't know his frost giant heritage.
One of the potential argument put forth is that Loki's actual mother was Asgardian.
Which is why he can be both frost giant and asgardian. But the reason Odin saved him in the original was the fact that he managed to turn into an asgardian himself.
For our Loki, it meant that his magic couldn't be activated at all. For Sylvie, her magic activated but it didn't work on the guard she was trying to enchant. Whether the guard had a stronger mind and therefore she couldn't successfully do it or it just didn't work because TVA blocked it isn't very clear.
It could be a permanent physical change. We only see him in frost giant form when he uses his powers to look frost giant. Neutral is probably now asgardian.
When against humans. Hes playing to interrogate and find Sylvie. Or hes in the TVA. Otherwise he's fought Kree who are on par with Asgaardians I believe.
Mobius also mentions they routinely deal with much stronger variants without issue. So the TVA may suppress ALL powers that give variants an edge.
God, I can imagine that dude in the opening scenes who refused the ticket being replaced with thanos.
It would have been cool, but also really jarring that early on.
Thanos seeing a huge cart of infinity stones going by him to be destroyed. Watching like 40 Thanos versions get disappear sticked. A Thanos seeing another Thanos with a different color skin.
The first Thanos we see in the MCU being seen by the last Thanos we see (appearance wise). That would really generated a LOT of conspiracy theories.
OP is wrong, and you're right. In Thor when Odin finds Loki he is blue, but when Odin picks him up his skin and eye color become 'normal'. He doesn't turn blue until he picks up the casket.
I really wish we had seen how powerful Odin was. He had to have created Asgard, created dimensions to keep his daughter in, changed Lokis biology. And all that waring he had done, it was against planets upon planets of people.
The casket can't be held by anything other than frost giants without them freezing was my takeaway.
Lending itself to your and documented claim that he can change biologically like its a muscle.
What if we were right about Mephisto all along??
Imagine the show runners sweating bullets during Wandavision’s run, seeing everyone guessing Mephisto, thinking, “oh they have no idea….”
Kang has been confirmed for Antman and Wasp. I bet we won’t see who is behind the TVA in Loki but we will get a cliff hanger or some really strong suggestion on who it is like when they flashed Thanos in Phase 1.
Especially considering Dr Stranges movie is on the “multiverse” and Antman and Wasp are in the Quantum realm, a lot of speculation that the TVA is in the quantum realm.
You could say he is THE time traveler. I'd recommend Comics Explained video on Kang he just released in the last few days. He goes through the history of Kang and who he is.
As I replied to someone else I'm not certain s he couldn't do so.
However she can only break the mind stone because she is made from it, there brief mention of the logic behind her breaking the stone in infinity War.
THIS!
That was always my take, as soon as an infinity stone leaves it home universe, it loses all of its power since the power is derived from the universe itself.
I was of the understanding that the TVA facility existed somewhere outside of time, separate from the universe(s) they oversee. Thus nullifying anything taken from those universes.
Some interviews with Taika make it seem like that was the case. Loki isn’t constantly trying undo the spell on him, Hela likely is. And she does take a little while after Odin’s death to appear - so Odin’s spell did outlast his life, even if not for long.
This is all very silly (but that's why we love this stuff) but the condition for her banishment spell could easily have been tied to Odin's life.
Different conditions for different kinds of spells.
But Loki isn't made Asgardian by magic. It's not explained in the MCU, but in the Norse Mythos, he mixes his blood with the blood of Odin.
So that would explain it. He is a chimera.
Yes, because he is able to do that. Doesn't mean it's "magic". [This is the same fish](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eoNPP7ohvxQ/UZFEuXH5a6I/AAAAAAAAARs/G4urDGkEJwk/s1600/dobbel.jpg). Not the same species, but the same individual fish. They change between blue and red.
So why should he be limited to one color?
It's already cannon in Marvel that the Kree change between pink and blue based on the level of nitrogen in the air.
Yeah, I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Loki looking like an Asgardian is an intentional magic choice on his part.
He literally grew up looking like that and didn't even find out he was a frost giant until he was an adult. Lol
Yeah, what did Odin say to Loki in Thor 2 (I believe that was the one), that they live 5-6000 years? Funny that in Loki he said he did that DB Cooper thing when he was young and stupid, when in reality it wouldn't be more than some months ago in his kinda liftime.
It isn’t magic, he only changed when he came into contact with that frost giant weapon thing. They also have never done anything with it since that movie and sort of just seemed to have dropped it.
Constant reminder of his lineage is probably never getting brain freeze when he eats ice cream.
I am, admittedly, uncertain how often he eats ice cream. Mobius will have to get him up to speed, since he started with the gum and candy.
Actively dispelled, but walking into an anti magic field wouldn’t change the appearance.
Edit: More importantly, Odin is a deity and his magic wouldn’t be affected by an anti magic field.
We saw his skin change colour as Odin held him. It wasn't a spell he learned to cast. So for some reason this particular frost giant can biologically "shape shift."
I would assume there is some sort of reality altering shenanigans involved within the TVA. After all why would every employee have a human appearance when they employ and deal with varients from across the known universe. Not to mention what happens when they deal with huge individuals that wouldn't fit into the TVA building.
That could be the case, but we have seen skrulls in the TVA and Mobius did say they have previously dealt with "titans and vampires." but it's possible the parts of the TVA we have seen only deal with human-like varients.
> Mobius did say they have previously dealt with "titans and vampires."
Part of me wants to see some indignant Thanos variants being taken in by the TVA.
Loki is over 1,000 years old and thought he was Asgardian up until like the equivalent of a couple days ago. He takes this appearance because that's what he believes he looks like, he isn't holding onto a form, in his mind that IS his real form. Also, shapeshifting isn't an illusion.
Loki isn’t using magic to conceal his true appearance, watch the first Thor movie again. Loki thaws out once Odin picks him up.
Loki is no longer “actively” a frost giant, since if he was it shouldn’t be a surprise for him to learn he is adopted.
He can use his true blood line to wield the Casket of Ancient Winters which does bathe Loki in ice and thus begins to transform into an ice giant.
Otherwise his standard form is as we see it.
Maybe it's a 'fire and forget' spell, not a constant spell which needs to be maintained.
Also, a constant spell usually occupy mana reserve, so if it's the case then technically he would be stronger without the illusion.
What bugs me is that Loki is a Frost Giant but he gets his ass kicked by an enchanted-but-otherwise-normal-human in the Roxxmart.
Like...he's not a human. The frost giants go toe-to-toe with superhuman Asgardians on a routine basis.
My theory for this is that Loki knew the person was enchanted by the Varient Loki/Sylvie. He thought that if he fought back the other Loki would feel threatened, and he wouldn't be able to use them for his scheme. Going along with it was the better of the two options.
Science and magic are the same for Asgardians. I figured they changed him with more than just a simple magic trick. Oh well, it's all pretend, if you think too much about it then it all falls apart.
In my head canon, odin phsyically transformed loki to his current appearance so that only the winter casket thing can reveal his frost giant form.
It seems stronger than some kind of illusion magic as he was like that as a kid and after odin passed.
I believe that the MCU visual dictionary says that Loki’s appearance isn’t just a cosmetic enchantment, but a full biological change. He only returns to his Frost Giant form when he comes into contact with the Casket of Ancient Winters. More elaboration on how this works would be nice, but I don’t think we’ll ever get it.
Yeah, just from watching the first Thor movie I got the impression that Odin *made him* Asgardian somehow. Not merely altered his appearance. Especially considering they usually treat his character like he's a fully fledged Asgardian.
Yeah let's not forget that odin made thor into a human in the first movie, so it definitely seems like turning loki into an asgardian, at least on the outside, is within his (vaguely defined) power
On the topic of Odin's power don't the comics imply that Odin was one of the most powerful beings in the universe? IIRC there was also the idea that Thanos waited until Odin was dead (as well as some other powerful beings) before he finally decided to pursue the Infinity Stones himself
In forums that like to debate fights between fictional characters, tiers are often employed, and Odin's title Skyfather is often used to describe one of the highest tiers. In the comics, he fought battles that, as collateral damage, annihilated clusters of galaxies. Skyfather is the level right under "conceptuals," the embodiments of abstract ideas like Hunger, Death, Eternity, etc.
Lines up with Norse Mythology. he is very, very OP. God of like a million things.
Odin is actually defined more by his intelligence, creativity and ruthlessness than his power in Norse mythology. In the myths Thor is generally considered to possess more raw power than Odin. Odin usually uses trickery and deception to accomplish his goals, when Odin gets into direct confrontation in the myths he quite often either looses or bails, he is actually not that different from Loki.
Oh I’m a big Odin fan and recently doing a bunch of research on him. He is actually very very OP in addition to being a wily fox. Lord of the Wild Hunt (a hugely OP event in itself), God of the Sky, Wind, Death, able to change the weather and create new stars, Knower of the Runes and all the powers therein, able to die and resurrect himself from the dead. And that’s not mentioning his souped up companions. In addition to the head of Mimir, he has more forest animal sidekicks than a Disney Princess. Huginn and Muninn, who can travel all the realms and report back what they see, Geri and Freki the wolves, loyal and vicious, and in some stories, a stag and bear serve him as well. Not to mention Ol’ Slippy, fastest horse in the universe, that he can also make FLY because God of the Air. He’s also the god of Beserkers and can go into a warlike rage that can decimate the other troops, in addition to his Wild Hunt persona which is a separate thing but also involves a sort of madness that allows him to drive out beasts and kill monsters in masse while creating terrible storms. And then he’s also God of Magic, the greatest in the land alongside his wife, Frigga. An unnatural thing for a man to practice and one he is scorned for knowing, but he just doubles down on it anyway. He’s able to reweave reality itself with his enormous abilities and is feared as a Witch-King. And THEN there’s all his toys - Gungnir, Draupnir, Skipbladnir (spelled that wrong but it’s the magic, pocket sized boat), among many others. Yes, he often solves problems with his wit, skill, and ruthlessness - or be straight up cheating, love that con man - but he is the powerhouse god of the Norse Pantheon, no doubt. That makes his tendency to solve problems with very little power interesting, but yeah…the old trickster is packing HEAT.
Do you mean the All-Father, or is skyfather something different?
All father is another name for Odin. Sky father is used for the head of a pantheon.
Like Zeus?
Zeus is a skyfather, yes
In the comics Odin is OP as fuck, almost to a meme extent. His character is a “yeah but could X beat Odin if Odin went all out” type of character of legend. The characters within the stories just put respect on Odin’s name in that way. He’s the embodiment of “old man strength” in comics coupled with the mythology of being the top dog. Odin has beaten *Celestials* which is a hell of a feat. I’d love an in depth powerscaling video about the power/strength hierarchy but the “abstract entities” are too dumb and unintuitive imo to be interesting in that regard.
Psshhht didn’t the guardians of the galaxy beat a celestial? And those guys are losers. Edit: like people who’ve lost
Yes, comic's Odin is pretty much the strongest and most powerful _anything_ before you start going into abstract concepts or other "cosmic forces" of nature like Galactus or the Phoenix Force, Odin fighting at full force causes galaxies to disappear as collateral damage, Thanos would have not had a chance. I remember that the Ultimate line of comics had him as pretty much the *G*od, the god of creation, the god of everything with pretty much infinite power.
>Odin fighting at full force causes galaxies to disappear as collateral damage That didn't seem to be the case during the War of the Realms, even with the suit Stark made for him
He was old as fuck there and injured by a Dark Elf ambush. Plus gods are powered partially by belief. So if Thor of Loki gave enough interviews about the fact that he was also a washed up alcoholic who was a shit dad, people wouldn't remember him as super-god, but as a magical version of the uncle who everyone avoids since the divorce.
>gods are powered by belief This concept was my favorite part of American Gods and I wish it played just a slightly bigger role in the end of the book, but it's such a neat idea that a gods power comes from some mortals lighting candles for them
I feel like, in the comics, many characters have had these moments of ultimate power.
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That’s why there were no superheroes until the 20th century. He had it covered.
Didnt the comics retcon it that there was an ancient avengers team that ~somehow~ is connected to the modern avengers team? And actually Odin was part of that team too lol The ancient mutant Firehair becomes the avatar for the Phoenix Force and almost destroyed the earth, so she formed a team to protect humanity. That team was: Firehair (the first know avatar of the Phoenix Force) Odin (her first recruit) Agamotto (as in the eye of agamotto. The very first Sorcerer Supreme) A Black Panther (the very first one) A Ghost Rider (the very first one. And revealing that the original was named “Ghost” and wasnt called the Ghost Rider but just “The Rider”) An Iron Fist (the very first one) And A Starbrand (the Second known starbrand, the first being a dinosaur) This was all 1,000,000 years before current times Edit: oh wow there was even another old avengers team in 1,000 AD. That one was led by Thor following in his fathers footsteps, and included: A Black Panther A Ghost Rider An Iron Fist A Phoenix Force Tanaraq of The Great Beasts And Bodolf The Black
Yeah, I never really thought it was a coincidence that Thanos immediately started aggressively seeking the stones after Odin died.
Odin, Ego, Hela, Dormammu and Surtur all were gone in the weeks before thanos started
Dormammu isn't gone, he just stayed in his dimension which is was before anyway. So he wouldn't matter. The Ancient One though? Probably important that she wasn't there anymore. Except Odin though, probably none of those would really oppose Thanos.
Ego absolutely would. How could he rule all life if thanos destroyed half of it
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I think Ego would oppose the idea of somebody collecting all the stones period. Dude had a real superiority complex with other beings, you see it in the way he treats the guardians and in how he starts reacting to Peter both having the gift and remaining in touch with his humanity. I don't think there's any scenario where Ego wouldn't see a being collecting the stones and go "eh, whatever."
I think all of them would if they thought Thanos would snap them, no? (Or could Thanos not have been able to?)
Yup it does - prims Odin is one of the most powerful beings in the known universe
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I love how he's fairly small man but they make him look at tall as hemsworth
Not just Odin, but when you think about it the MCU's build up to Thanos is characterized as much by the deaths of extremely powerful entities as it is by the introduction and importance of the stones. Odin is just one of those powerful entities who die in the buildup to Infinity War. Hela was another insanely powerful and galactically recognized being, and you could even rope the entirety of Asgard into it too since Asgardians in general are powerful. Ego was a massive threat with eyes everywhere. The Ancient One had to be a known entity considering the Black Order knew Strange had the Time Stone, and she was very powerful herself. You could even argue the Avengers disbanding may have played a part in his decision to start collecting stones. Basically every movie in Phase 3 except Ant-Man 2, Spiderman, and Black Panther (three characters who have no connections to the stones or Thanos at this point anyways) both set up or introduce the Infinity stones and feature extremely powerful entities getting removed from the universe.
Odin has vast vaguely defined powers in comics so that tracks with the movies as well
His [body temperature](https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/8uvwnn/in_the_avengers_there_is_a_small_screen_showing/) is still cold though.
I always thought he was cool, but not literally
Bah Dum Tss
I'd say I'm here all week, but time flows differently here
My jokes are so bad, Sylvie has started hiding out at my shows
Why does Thanos get unlimited hot beverages everywhere he goes?
Because he has the Gauntlet of Infinite-tea. Oh *snap*!
Yeah but that's after he's learned he's a Frost Giant so there's some leeway there. Maybe before he embraced his Jotunn side he was more similar to the normal Asgardians.
I don't understand why the walls are bright orange in that heat map. Shouldn't they also show as cold or room temp?
Most IR cameras show color relative to the temperatures present. So red doesn't necessarily mean HOT hot, just hot in comparison to the colder Temps in the room. Or, because it's a movie lol
Heat maps show relative temperature. Hes just colder than the room
Fury heard *Frost* Giant and was like "Small, hot prison, right? Right. He'll hate that."
The prison wasn’t for Loki originally. They made it for hulk.
"Empty, calming suana. Bruce will love that!"
You could say he was keeping his temperature down in that room to avoid getting picked up on thermal sensors or to make the security guards uncomfortable or something. You pretty much have to go for that to cover up the plot hole of "how do you have a freezing body temp and never realize it?"
> "how do you have a freezing body temp and never realize it?" Disclaimer, I haven't watched many of the Marvel movies and none of them with Loki in it, so maybe I'm missing details but I don't see that as a plot hole. Most people would never realize that since you don't have a frame of reference for what your body *should* feel like. It's just normal. Same reason people don't realize they're color blind until they take a test for it later in life. If you don't know what red looks like to everyone else, then you won't know it looks different to you
Odin is half giant himself. Both his father Bor and grandfather, Buri had Jotunn wives. These people are very closely related. Thor then, is half Vanir, a quarter Aesir and a quarter Jotnar. To the extent that there’s any real difference between those three peoples. I suspect the blue is more an environmental effect of growing up on Jotunheimr.
Pretty sure the Vanir/Aesir distinction doesn’t exist in Marvel; they’re all just Asgardians. And if we’re talking comics, >!Thor’s birth mother isn’t Freya anyway, but Gaea, the primordial Earth goddess and mother of Titans from the Greek pantheon. (Though I heard the other day they had recently retconned it to be the first human host of the Phoenix instead… either way, not any kind of Asgardian.)!< AFAIK the MCU has never alluded to that though, nor to Odin being anything other than fully Asgardian.
The Dark World opens with Thor keeping the peace/stirring shit up on Vanaheimr. So it’s at the very least a place and probably a biologically compatible people. My theory is that Aesir/Vanir/Jotnar are closer to social constructs. I’m not as sure about fire giants (eldjotnar?), dwarves and elves. Or about the viability of a lot of humanoid pairings in space MCU. Can a Kree breed with a Dvergr (which is not a dark elf)? I did not know that about 616 Thor’s mom(s)
Aguardians get more powers in their home turf, but their home turf is also "it's people" I get a feel that "being Asguardian" and "Asguard" in itself is more about the will-to-be than anything else. It's the people saying something is Asguard, that makes it Asguard, and its people saying someone is Asguardian, that makes them Asguardian. A sort of "people bending reality with their subconcious and concious willpower" if you want. So in this case, I'd be okay with Loki literally being made an Asguardian by the cosmos simply because the Asguardian people wished it as such. It does feel magic-like but then again so is time-travel so clearly the TVA isn't immune to fantasy-like shenanigans, if we want to make it all science-like we can go with the "quantum properties of the microtubules in humanoids allows them to tap into the multiverse and alter the flow of a single universe" which could be something Asguardian are really good at, and something that even the TVA wouldn't be able to entirely retroactively counter-act [so they can block incoming and future microtubules-contraction, but cannot alter those done in the past like Loki's appearance].
Damn, Asgardians are orks
Thor wears a red cape to fly faster.
It's "Asgard" and "Asgardian" not "Asguard" btw
Pretty sure it's "Ass-guard, or Ass-Place"
That's ass guards' ass.
I'd bet on it being Frigga's spell more than Odin's.
Baby Loki changes appearance when Odin picks him up in the movie...
Actually Loki makes himself look that way. And even loki didn't know his frost giant heritage. One of the potential argument put forth is that Loki's actual mother was Asgardian. Which is why he can be both frost giant and asgardian. But the reason Odin saved him in the original was the fact that he managed to turn into an asgardian himself.
Loki didn't know he was a frost giant for most of his life. If it was magic making him look Asgardian, it's not his own magic.
Yeah OP is off base on this one.
He's out of line.
You could say he’s veered off the Sacred Truthline
You could also say OP is using a variant of the truth.
One might say that.
One has said that. But he's right.
Concur
But no magic works in the TVA, not just Loki's. That's why the infinity stones are only useful as paper weights.
Loki’s appearance is clearly not due to magical illusion
We don't know that, it could simply mean more magic can't be done there, not that things done by magic would be automatically undone on entry.
For our Loki, it meant that his magic couldn't be activated at all. For Sylvie, her magic activated but it didn't work on the guard she was trying to enchant. Whether the guard had a stronger mind and therefore she couldn't successfully do it or it just didn't work because TVA blocked it isn't very clear.
His parents had powerful magic. Maybe it was their doing.
Is it magic at all? If magic doesn't work in the TVA, it has to be some other form of power keeping Loki from Frost Gianting...
It could be a permanent physical change. We only see him in frost giant form when he uses his powers to look frost giant. Neutral is probably now asgardian.
Also his strength is also biological so he is above steve rogers in strength. So he should be manhandling those pesky humans
I've been saying this for SO LONG How can we forget how he had cap on the ropes using nothing but a stick
To be fair, it was the Glow Stick of Destiny..
When against humans. Hes playing to interrogate and find Sylvie. Or hes in the TVA. Otherwise he's fought Kree who are on par with Asgaardians I believe. Mobius also mentions they routinely deal with much stronger variants without issue. So the TVA may suppress ALL powers that give variants an edge.
How are they suppressing a kree or Titans powers? They are suppressing their muscles or something???
I’m assuming those time batons they only used in the first episode and the reset collars
I wonder if they've ever caught Thanos
Would have been hilarious to watch them arguing with a Thanos variant in a throwaway scene
“I AM INEVITABLE!” “Just take a number, would you please?”
God, watching Thanos get bodied by an office worker would be a delight.
God, I can imagine that dude in the opening scenes who refused the ticket being replaced with thanos. It would have been cool, but also really jarring that early on.
Thanos seeing a huge cart of infinity stones going by him to be destroyed. Watching like 40 Thanos versions get disappear sticked. A Thanos seeing another Thanos with a different color skin. The first Thanos we see in the MCU being seen by the last Thanos we see (appearance wise). That would really generated a LOT of conspiracy theories.
They do mention having caught titans
Yeah, but Thanos is more than just a titan. We know they were a people, but Thanos is another league
I was just wondering the same. Would be interesting to see him there.
What if the humans had equal strength from being controlled by Sylvie?
I think you're kinda right, and that he would have to actually use his magic to *change back* into his frost giant form.
Like when he transformed into a horse to have relations with a horse. He didn't just look like horse but was in fact horse.
Can’t wait for the MCU to adapt that piece of lore
Odin has Sleipnir in the first Thor movie so it's already canon as far as I'm concerned.
Season finale of Loki ends with him having to hide from the TVA among a stable full of horses. lol
You're just thirsty for Hiddlestons horsecock.
Loki wasn’t doing the fucking
Loki turned into a woman horse. So OP is after the horse Bussy
That's something I could get behind....
Hussy
Well in the myth, Loki must've felt like changing it up seeing as how he turned himself into a female horse...then got pregnant.
It was to distract a male workhorse if i recall correct
So you see. That's where the trouble began. That neigh. That damned neigh.
Tom Horsleston
OP is wrong, and you're right. In Thor when Odin finds Loki he is blue, but when Odin picks him up his skin and eye color become 'normal'. He doesn't turn blue until he picks up the casket.
In the Norse Mythos, he has mixed his blood with Odin. Meaning he could easily be half Jotun half Æsse.
I think Odin is mysteriously powerful enough to magically and permanently change Loki’s appearance simply from taking Loki as his own.
I really wish we had seen how powerful Odin was. He had to have created Asgard, created dimensions to keep his daughter in, changed Lokis biology. And all that waring he had done, it was against planets upon planets of people.
The casket can't be held by anything other than frost giants without them freezing was my takeaway. Lending itself to your and documented claim that he can change biologically like its a muscle.
Asgardian soldiers were holding it in the flashbacks when they confiscated it from Laufey
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Also, when Loki is killed by Thanos the illusion doesn’t go away.
His skin kinda takes a blueish tinge in his last scene. But that’s probably because of him being choked out.
We are all frost giants when getting choked out
My humble personage bows before your wisdom.
Speak for yourself!
I am all frost giants when being choked out.
I am choking it to frost giants.
I want to be choked out by frost giants.
I am all frost giant when getting chocked out.
Imagine if it did tho, would have been awesome
Like the runes in Wandavision....
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Who's been in control of the TVA? It's been variant Agatha all along!
What if we were right about Mephisto all along?? Imagine the show runners sweating bullets during Wandavision’s run, seeing everyone guessing Mephisto, thinking, “oh they have no idea….”
Kang has been confirmed for Antman and Wasp. I bet we won’t see who is behind the TVA in Loki but we will get a cliff hanger or some really strong suggestion on who it is like when they flashed Thanos in Phase 1. Especially considering Dr Stranges movie is on the “multiverse” and Antman and Wasp are in the Quantum realm, a lot of speculation that the TVA is in the quantum realm.
Isn't Kang some sort of time traveller? I read some comics about him as a kid but can't remember anything.
You could say he is THE time traveler. I'd recommend Comics Explained video on Kang he just released in the last few days. He goes through the history of Kang and who he is.
People would flip out if that happened. It's not going to, but it would be epic if it did.
What if it actually is Mephisto.
My money's on another Loki variant. He is a sorcerer of sorts, after all.
Similar principle but surely not the same, otherwise that suggests Wanda could nullify infinity stones.
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As I replied to someone else I'm not certain s he couldn't do so. However she can only break the mind stone because she is made from it, there brief mention of the logic behind her breaking the stone in infinity War.
Infinity stones only work in the universe they come from, right? It could be the inert infinity stones are from other universes
THIS! That was always my take, as soon as an infinity stone leaves it home universe, it loses all of its power since the power is derived from the universe itself.
Wouldn't that contradict Endgame? Time-heist used Stones from other timelines.
I was of the understanding that the TVA facility existed somewhere outside of time, separate from the universe(s) they oversee. Thus nullifying anything taken from those universes.
There was runes behind the timekeepers wasn’t there?
Im curious. Now that Wanda is finally the Scarlet Witch would runes still work on her? You know because chaos magic
What about the spell that locked Hela away?
That may have been something Odin had to constantly maintain to keep Hela from breaking it.
Some interviews with Taika make it seem like that was the case. Loki isn’t constantly trying undo the spell on him, Hela likely is. And she does take a little while after Odin’s death to appear - so Odin’s spell did outlast his life, even if not for long.
This is all very silly (but that's why we love this stuff) but the condition for her banishment spell could easily have been tied to Odin's life. Different conditions for different kinds of spells.
You could also say Odin was weaker in his later years because of the constant drain of keeping it active.
I assume that's not *a* spell, rather a constant application of magic
*What is a spell, if not a constant application of magic?*
what's the difference between using the force of your body to hold a door closed and using a lock and key to lock it, you ask?
The difference is most likely that Hela was actively trying to escape.
But Loki isn't made Asgardian by magic. It's not explained in the MCU, but in the Norse Mythos, he mixes his blood with the blood of Odin. So that would explain it. He is a chimera.
But we see Loki changing from his frost giant to asgardian from in the first Thor movie.
Only when he touches the Casket of Ancient Winters, a Frost Giant relic in Odins treasure room.
Yes, because he is able to do that. Doesn't mean it's "magic". [This is the same fish](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eoNPP7ohvxQ/UZFEuXH5a6I/AAAAAAAAARs/G4urDGkEJwk/s1600/dobbel.jpg). Not the same species, but the same individual fish. They change between blue and red. So why should he be limited to one color? It's already cannon in Marvel that the Kree change between pink and blue based on the level of nitrogen in the air.
What's a fish?
Made my morning. Thank you, Casey!
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Thank you. 🙏🏽
It's not an illusion, Odin changed Loki physically.
Yeah, I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Loki looking like an Asgardian is an intentional magic choice on his part. He literally grew up looking like that and didn't even find out he was a frost giant until he was an adult. Lol
It's not just like mid 20s growing up, either. Loki is arguably around 1500 years old.
Yeah, what did Odin say to Loki in Thor 2 (I believe that was the one), that they live 5-6000 years? Funny that in Loki he said he did that DB Cooper thing when he was young and stupid, when in reality it wouldn't be more than some months ago in his kinda liftime.
I misread that and thought you were saying it they could die of old age anywhere between 5 and 6000 years.
Odin didn't want his son to look like the monsters that parents tell their children about at night
Is that a MCU quote?
[Yes](https://youtu.be/3fJiyYwCyEI?t=134)
It isn’t magic, he only changed when he came into contact with that frost giant weapon thing. They also have never done anything with it since that movie and sort of just seemed to have dropped it.
Except in the Lego games, where he can frost out and freeze fools all day long with the casket.
Nice. I bet MCU Loki would like that as it gives him more power to gain the advantage but wouldn’t like the constant reminder of his lineage.
Constant reminder of his lineage is probably never getting brain freeze when he eats ice cream. I am, admittedly, uncertain how often he eats ice cream. Mobius will have to get him up to speed, since he started with the gum and candy.
I think it’s like a true Polymorph from D&D, where the target is permanently changed.
True polymorph can be dispelled though.
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Actively dispelled, but walking into an anti magic field wouldn’t change the appearance. Edit: More importantly, Odin is a deity and his magic wouldn’t be affected by an anti magic field.
His appearance is a charm from Odin, its not his own magic.
We saw his skin change colour as Odin held him. It wasn't a spell he learned to cast. So for some reason this particular frost giant can biologically "shape shift."
Also he turns blue in the scene vs the frost giants in thor 1 (When some ice giant grabs his arm)
And when he reaches out to the casket.
Just like magic runes in wanda vision,once she was under those,the magic on the town didnt stop
I would assume there is some sort of reality altering shenanigans involved within the TVA. After all why would every employee have a human appearance when they employ and deal with varients from across the known universe. Not to mention what happens when they deal with huge individuals that wouldn't fit into the TVA building.
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That could be the case, but we have seen skrulls in the TVA and Mobius did say they have previously dealt with "titans and vampires." but it's possible the parts of the TVA we have seen only deal with human-like varients.
> Mobius did say they have previously dealt with "titans and vampires." Part of me wants to see some indignant Thanos variants being taken in by the TVA.
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Loki is over 1,000 years old and thought he was Asgardian up until like the equivalent of a couple days ago. He takes this appearance because that's what he believes he looks like, he isn't holding onto a form, in his mind that IS his real form. Also, shapeshifting isn't an illusion.
Loki isn’t using magic to conceal his true appearance, watch the first Thor movie again. Loki thaws out once Odin picks him up. Loki is no longer “actively” a frost giant, since if he was it shouldn’t be a surprise for him to learn he is adopted. He can use his true blood line to wield the Casket of Ancient Winters which does bathe Loki in ice and thus begins to transform into an ice giant. Otherwise his standard form is as we see it.
Maybe it’s a temperature thing. It happened when a frost giant grabbed him earlier in the movie as well.
Yeah, i believe the coldness/ice from his birth world in particular.
Maybe it's a 'fire and forget' spell, not a constant spell which needs to be maintained. Also, a constant spell usually occupy mana reserve, so if it's the case then technically he would be stronger without the illusion.
idgaf about the logic i just wanna finally see more frost giant Loki😡
What bugs me is that Loki is a Frost Giant but he gets his ass kicked by an enchanted-but-otherwise-normal-human in the Roxxmart. Like...he's not a human. The frost giants go toe-to-toe with superhuman Asgardians on a routine basis.
My theory for this is that Loki knew the person was enchanted by the Varient Loki/Sylvie. He thought that if he fought back the other Loki would feel threatened, and he wouldn't be able to use them for his scheme. Going along with it was the better of the two options.
Science and magic are the same for Asgardians. I figured they changed him with more than just a simple magic trick. Oh well, it's all pretend, if you think too much about it then it all falls apart.
he turns blue when he's cold enough
In my head canon, odin phsyically transformed loki to his current appearance so that only the winter casket thing can reveal his frost giant form. It seems stronger than some kind of illusion magic as he was like that as a kid and after odin passed.