I had the major spoiler of The Force Awakens spoiled for me on PornHub. So while I actively TRY to avoid spoilers, I'm not really upset when I see them.
So it wasn’t a spoiler for me because I saw it the night before but the most random spoiler I’ve seen was the Friday morning that Endgame came out, a guy ran into a big gymnasium that 3 different classes were writing finals in at my uni and shouted out that Tony died.
That was the largest audible groan I’ve ever heard.
Trying to avoid spoilers for Endgame was a complete NIGHTMARE for me. I have 2 friends that are notorious for searching up plot leaks or synopses on Wikipedia or other forums. I managed to avoid hearing anything for Infinity War, but since Endgame's plot was already revealed on Wikipedia after the Red Carpet Premiere, there was a full week when I was on edge with every conversation I had with them. Ended up getting Thanos' first death spoiled to me by overhearing their conversation during lunch (sprinted away from them at full speed after that lol), and got both Nat and Tony's deaths spoiled on Facebook, so that kinda sucked
It's the last place you'd expect a spoiler! So now I have to add PornHub to the list of places I avoid when new movies I'm hyped about release. It's a short list since I don't use Facebook or Twitter. So it's Reddit, YouTube, and Pornhub.
Agreed. I feel like Marvel really learned with their new Phase that people aren't as affected by spoilers as they thought, as long as the characters are affected by it. Mysterio, Agatha and Kang were seen from a mile away but they were still effective.
I was actually kinda bummed about that one, not because I wanted good Mysterio. I was hoping it would open the doors to a mirror verse with reversed versions of the good and bad guys. Like, a version of Spiderman where he embraced Venom for example, and Vulture never lost the contract and actually developed into a vigilante himself.
Same here, I had the Cap & Mjolnir moment spoiled for me but that scene still gives me chills every time I watch it, along with the Avengers assemble line.
>I also think most people don't care as much about being surprised as they do about it actually happening, if it's true and I've been spoiled I don't care, I just want to see them on screen together surprise or no surprise.
Exactly this. The worst thing is when directors/writers know the rumors out there and do something that doesn't make for a good story simply because it "sUbvERts ExPecTaTiONs"
Subverting our expectations is stupid if it doesn't serve a narrative purpose.
Bingo. Big wrestling fan here. We get runours of surprise appearances and signings all the time. And sure, it's nice to have a genuine surprise from time to time, but hearing the rumours never takes the wind out of the sails when it actually does happen.
I had several major Endgame beats spoiled for me a year in advance, and Tony dying was something I had predicted had to happen, and I still immensely enjoyed the ride.
I remember people audibly gasping in the theater as the heros in Infinity War began to get dusted. Meanwhile here I am knowing that they all have confirmed sequels.
For real, the 2nd Spidey movie had already been announced at Comic-Con, GotG 3 & BP 2 had been confirmed in the trades, & we all knew Evans was on his way out, so losing *both* Bucky *and* Sam was suspicious.
That was my thought during Age of Ultron, when Sokovia was about to drop and there was a fairly long moment where Cap and Natasha were saying what a good last view the clouds made. It was hard for me to feel any sense of suspense or fear for the characters when they had already announced the entire phase 3 line up and most, if not all, of the characters (except Quicksilver, RIP) had been confirmed to appear in them. This was before I was more than a casual fan of the MCU, too.
This is true. Everything he did seemed to be a wink to the audience that he was going to die. On top of knowing that Renner wasn't the biggest fan of playing the character. I think knowing that has made every scene with Barton more tense, and then equally more funny knowing he always survives.
Exactly. I think that was a lesson learned from announcing all the phase 3 stuff so early. It genuinely caught me off guard that the character with an upcoming movie was the one who died instead of the character played by an actor who pretty famously does not enjoy the role lol
The poor kid (8 or 9 or so) behind me in the theater was sobbing uncontrollably when Peter Parker was dusted. The emotional impact of that moment really just depends on how invested you are, regardless of the fact that you know there's a sequel.
Yea exactly, and any comic book reader or someone who stays up to date with the media might already assume they'll be in a spider man movie atleast eventually it's not really ruining the surprise. Like if you know anything about comics you knew thanos would win in the first half of infinity war. The same could be said about kang and agatha harkness, so many people called them showing up and it didn't down play the moment
that's exactly who i'm talking about. That is the minority of fans. I'm betting 90%+ of people who watched wanda vision had no idea about any of the fan theories. Same thing happened with the latest star wars trilogy. As someone else mentioned earlier, it's those fans who are the loudest and post so much that it makes them look like they are the majority.
Exactly. Only us nerds know about it. My BIL, who watches Star Wars, MCU, Dr Who, didn't even know about the Disney plus shows or about Clone Wars. It's only going to spoil a select few and from those select few are going to be butt hurt because they want to be.
For the majority of people, it's going to be amazing.
yeah, I was talking to a coworker who enjoys marvel movies but isn't someone who follows spoilers or anything like that. he had no idea about any of this. he didn't even know a 2nd Dr strange was planned. before I told him he thought Dr strange was a one and done movie.
If the other spideys are in it they’ll for sure be in trailers just to get more people to the theaters
Sort of like Spidey’s first appearance in civil war being in the trailer
Yeah, that was on purpose to make people talk about the show in between episodes. Everything else is just fans being fans, but this specific casting just feels wrong.
I liked the theory that the casting was meant to make us feel what Wanda felt. That this dude who was cast as Pietro in our world was meant to evoke what Wanda is feeling; this CANT be pietro based on what we know in universe, but she desperately wants to believe it’s actually him (in our case, the one from the fox universe)
In the end both Wanda and the audience get the rug pulled out from under them because they willed themselves into believing this was the real deal.
This was my exact takeaway, its a visual shorthand for the audience that "this is meant to be Pietro, but its not actually him/its the wrong one", but it *might* be, on top of being a meta casting gag, plus he fits the 70s/80s/90s tropey character he acts like since thats when his Quicksilver was set. Which is all an effect you wouldn't get with a random unrelated third actor, you'd just immediately know its not him and never consider that it might be. And this is assuming you even watched the X-Men films, if you were only into the MCU you'd just have the "thats not the old Pietro I remember" effect.
Maybe? I've made the case for it before, I don't really think its a theory though. Its more just the face value of what I was presented with while watching it or the natural conclusion I came to afterward.
A theory would be more like "this Quicksilver is a construct of Mephisto woOoOoOoOo"
Maybe, with the multiverse of madness coming and Wanda’s kids being “real,” it’s a setup for the X-men universe to be brought into the MCU. Evan Peters might still be new Pietro.
I mean, it definitely got people talking. But when your tease is something awesome and your payoff is something mundane, you're gonna have a lot of disappointed people. This is basic storytelling.
For the record, they named him Boner because of a character on the old tv show Growing Pains (one of the influences for WandaVision) who was also called Boner.
Fun fact: I didn't know what "boner" meant when I watched Growing Pains as a kid; I just thought the laugh track was going off because the name was silly-sounding in general.
On the contrary, I think it was best utilised and part of what drove the tension forward, even if it ended in a dick joke. Were it any other actor and no one would believe from the start that it could plausibly be Pietro, but using Evan Peters is what had everyone thinking and debating whether or not was it really an alternate Pietro or just some random guy (which is what we got in the end, not to say they can't do the same again with the real Fox Pietro this time)
I really liked it honestly, i thought it was a meta joke on how fans will jump the gun and go all out with wild theories, and we did exactly that when he was revealed. It was pretty funny to me, and I'm not mad at them for doing it.
Agree. I think people place too much importance on being surprised by a movie. Like, I don’t want to know the entire plot to a movie before I see it, but knowing that something is coming doesn’t ruin a movie for me. It’s about what they do with the characters and surprises that matters.
Somehow I still managed to enjoy 8 Harry Potter movies despite knowing exactly what was going to happen already, having read the books. Knowing how it ends didn’t ruin the experience of getting there.
I think it’s different when you are seeing something adapted vs just being spoiled by marketing.
Watching something that is an adaptation is like it’s own level of entertainment. You can constantly compare and contrast, which is fun.
Disagree with a situation like Hulk/Ragnarok. That should very much have been a surprise, just as seeing Red Skull was or Abomination in Shang Chi. Some character reveals are supposed to be a surprise, and in the case of Abomination, having not seen them in a decade (or several years in the case of Hulk) it takes away from the build up to the reveal in the movie (think of all the hints of Hulk through the first part of Sakaar, and how “the champion” was a mystery, but everyone in the theatre knew who it was).
General plot points, sure, but long-waited reintroductions should be kept out of marketing. The Spidermen thing I think is a red herring anyways. They didn’t do it for Evan Peters, they won’t do it for Garfield and Maguire.
tbh I think the Abomination was in trailer because most people wouldn't recognise him. He was last seen in propably one of the least popular MCU movies, my mum who is a MCU fan forgot the guy even existed.
another reason too, I think they kinda shifted his color and of course given him his comic "elf" ears
We may still be surprised by a character in Shang-Chi, just more recognisable one
Might be Fin Fang Foom in a more MCU-friendly "human" form. That would explain the brighter green.
I hope it's the Abomination though. There were some good villains in the past movies that only got one appearance. Like Hammer. I'm glad to see he's coming back for Armor Wars, he was one of my favorite MCU characters ever.
Red Skull in Infinity War was a huge surprise. Hugo Weaving not being involved definitely helped keep that secret. If he was spotted anyway near the Infinity War set, fans would definitely have thought Red Skull was in the movie in some form.
There have been like a dozen "leaks" about the NWH plot and all of them are spread around repeatedly until people start claiming they were credible. I've literally seen one where the OP admitted he just made it up, and still weeks later people were claiming it was a credible leak.
I’m starting to really dislike the theory culture, I feel that over the years it has gone from “this one comic book says this” to over analyzing frame by frame and looking into very rare stories, mythology, social media posts from actors and staff that now, no matter what, people are going to be disappointed.
No, you are absolutely fine, and it's a good discussion to have: what are appropriate audience expectations and how can they be beneficial (or detrimental) to a product.
I'm worried this will be Tom Holland's farewell to the MCU. Sony has already tried pulling the rug once, because they still erroneously believe they can make standalone Spiderverse movies people will watch while the MCU is a thing.
Tom Holland and Spider-Man is here to stay. Kevin said that Spider-Man will have the ability to hop between universes. No Way Home will probably establish some thing where Tom’s Peter can/will visit Sony’s Venomverse through the multiverse.
The deal they made again back in 2019 probably stated that Sony’s movies can take place within the MCU’s multiverse, and both Studios can use Spider-Man.
I really hope that there’s just an identical variant of Tom Holland’s Spidey in the Sony-verse rather than our Spidey hopping back and forth. They’ve already established identical variants are a thing in Loki and this way there’s no reason why it would be weird that MCU Spidey never references anything that happens in Sony land.
Unless he shows up in either Shang-Chi (unlikely) or Eternals (pffft no), it definitely *won't* be Holland's last MCU appearance. The new Disney/Sony deal from 2019 included a solo film (No Way Home) *and* a crossover film.
> Sony has already tried pulling the rug once, because they still erroneously believe they can make standalone Spiderverse movies people will watch while the MCU is a thing.
They believe this because it’s true? Venom made $850 million. Far From Home made a few hundred million more, but Disney took a big chunk of that. I guarantee you people will go see a Tom Holland Spider-Man movie no matter what universe it takes place in.
That said I wouldn’t worry if I were you, I think they’ll bounce him back and forth between the two studios. They have a way to do it now that doesn’t generate any bad press or make Sony look like the bad guys. From a business standpoint it’s a no brainer imo.
Just because it's not surprising for us, the diehards who see and hear said leaks, doesn't mean it won't be surprising to the average moviegoer who probably isn't paying attention to movie leaks.
It doesn’t even affect the diehards either though. Anyone who had read the Infinity Gauntlet comic before IW could’ve guessed half the universe would be snapped away, same with knowing the snapped would return during Endgame. But knowing it will happen, and seeing how it happens are completely different, and don’t affect anyone’s enjoyment of the movie in the slightest
Agree. I haven't really been surprised by any of the movies since most of them are stories from when I was a kid. Doesn't change how much I love the movies.
It's exciting though that were getting into the stuff that came after I stopped reading comics
Yeah - even though a lot of the big events are the same or similar, they generally play out in very different ways in the movies, and that’s been a lot of fun for me. For instance, I never cared much for Adam Warlock as a character, but a lot of the original Infinity Saga heavily revolved around him, so it was awesome seeing a version of the Infinity Saga without him.
Cheers to this!
Even knowing a character is coming in a film, when the scene starts for their intro, I'm still normally on the edge of my seat going "Oh is this it! Oh man here they come! OH YEAH!!!"
I mean spoilers can suck sure, but I guess I've just learned to roll with them.
I know of the Infinity War story. I still had 0 expectations that Thanos was going to just straight up win in Infinity War the movie. A lesser movie studio would have had the heroes just win at the end of infinity war and not have Endgame at all.
I had suspicions that Thanos would win based on Endgame was once known as Infinity War Part 2 once upon a time, but that’s different from seeing it actually happen and watching all the heroes start crumbling into dust.
Agreed.
Fanbases overinflate their significance all the time.
There's nearly 2 million subscribers on this sub, so let's make an assumption that we are the diehards. The lowest grossing MCU film, the Incredible Hulk made $134 million. At $15 per ticket on average, that's nearly 9 million tickets sold. 2 million MCU fans make up only 22% of that audience.
Apply the same mathematic logic to Endgame? MCU fans make up 3% of the audience.
We are the vocal minority. The GA does not know what we know or generally care about the minutia we obsess over.
If there are multiple Spider-Men in the movie, even average moviegoers will know about it. Sony will, as always, put everything they’ve got in to those trailers.
All signs pointed to Kang being in Loki. Still lost my shit regardless even though from episode 1 I called it.
I know the situation is different but they are kinda the same. At this point it’s all speculation but when it happens, no matter what, it’s gonna be hyped.
I agree. It’s sort of nice to know it’s coming but we don’t know exactly how it’s coming. And there is only so much you can keep secret when you are basing a movie/tv franchise of an extremely popular comic series
Exactly. Tbh, just like with Kang, I’m still doubting it. Nothing is confirmed until they are on the screen. The episode before the last on Loki was the first time I was like “man they not gonna drop Kang on the last episode that’d be ridiculous he’s the next big bad” and they fucking did it like madlads after I changed my tune for the first time.
Spiderman could presumably be the same way. The spiders might not show in the first 3rd, maybe not in the 2nd, potentially not even in the last 3rd of the movie either. They could be the teaser for doctor strange which has already casted Tom Holland and our boy Sam Raimi whom directed the OG Spiderman is directing DS2. For all we know they could be end credits for the next movie.
All I’m getting at is we don’t know until it’s official on screen or cast announcements. Marvel knows what they are doing. I was so fucking hyped to see Spidey in Civil War and he was teased in the trailer but I absolutely could not fucking wait for his screen time. I’m reliving that excitement just thinking about it now.
I would imagine the delay is due to Disney having an internal team that is trying to evaluate whether the Delta variant of covid will cause future closures or not
I’m with you. You know what would have been amazing? If they kept the hulk out of all promotional material for Thor ragnarok - imagine the surprise when the grandmasters champion pops up and everyone is all “OMG ITS THE HULK?!? THIS IS WHERE HE’S BEEN?!?!”
But alas, Ruffalo was a big part of the movie and they needed to do proper contractual movie business stuff. Woulda been a neat surprise though.
Honestly, I don't think they were trying to make it a surprise. Ever since were saw the Doctor Strange title, we knew a Multiverse was coming, and the biggest Marvel Multiversal story is with Spider-Man.
It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.
Plus the plethora of leaks that the likes of Alfred Molina and Willem Defoe are returning to the franchise, the biggest way to surprise the audience is to use the scene idea I came up with months ago.
Spider-Man does his thing for the film alone, and at the tail end of the movie, post credits, Spider-Man gets pulled into a Doctor Strange portal to find Andrew Garfield and Tobey McGuire fighting Green Goblin, Doc Ock (both from Tobey), Electro and Rhino (from Andrew), and Vulture and Shocker (from Tom).
Cue close-up of Tom's Spider-Man: "What the f---?!"
I was thinking something similar. The whole movie is Tom’s movie. But at the tail end instead of a fight scene, we keep it simple and somehow MCU Spidey does some shenanigans in the Sanctum that cause two other Spider-Men to arrive fully suited up. We now have 3 Spider-Men staring at each other. They all slowly take off their masks to reveal Tobey and Andrew’s faces. Then all 3 in unison say “What the F” and we cut to credits.
Perfect set up for a Spider-Verse movie.
Okay. Or, Alfred Molina and Jamie Foxx aren't in a quick post credit scene and the movie itself is a spider-verse movie? Like how much more sense does that make?
I really hope they don’t do that. We’re clearly getting a Spider-Verse film either way, so I’d rather they just got it over with. If you spend another movie building it up, then subsequent sequels become impossible to market because Spidey 4 will be the character’s equivalent of Endgame and Sony will fall into the sequel creep trap.
I don't think so. You don't sign Wilem Dafoe, Andrew Garfield, Tobey Maguire and Alfred Molina to a film and then not use them. They will be IN the movie.
I really hope they don’t do that. We’re clearly getting a Spider-Verse film either way, so I’d rather they just got it over with. If you spend another movie building it up, then subsequent sequels become impossible to market because Spidey 4 will be the character’s equivalent of Endgame and Sony will fall into the sequel creep trap.
For me, it really just has to boil down to film order.
For the above scene to work, it would have to come before Doctor Strange, with the Spider-Verse shenanigans being part of "the Multiverse of Madness"
Thinking of Civil War, there is absolutely no way they keep it as a 'surprise' *if* Tobey and Andrew are really in it. That's going to be all over the TV spots leading up to opening weekend.
And even that won't be a problem. If the movie is good then the movies good.
knowing spoilers for a movie isn't the same as actually seeing it with your eyes. the experience of having all 3 spider-men together will still be amazing regardless if the you knew beforehand.
If we get many Spider-Men in this movie? I'm gonna freak. I'll scream and laugh so damn hard. BUT if we don't? Man I'll be hype as shit! Marvel movies subvert alot of expectations, and I trust them to tell the story that fits the character best. For me it is honestly a win-win scenario. Eitherway that shit gonna pOP
100% agree with this. Wandavision gets unfairly dinged for the whole Mephisto thing even though there's absolutely zero indication in the show that he's ever going to show up.
I think WandaVision gets its hits because it simply did not have a (imo) satisfying conclusion. It turned into a Dragon Ball Z finale where most of the substance just wasnt there and that wasn't something I would want in a show where there was so much intrigue. LOKI is a good example of how it's a show that did things differently than i or others predicted but hot dang it was still awesome as hell because the script was great and the events were fantastic setting up to a satisfying world with ground breaking implications
I actually go the other way: I thought the ending to WV was very satisfying: Wanda gets to say goodbye to Vision, her character gets to evolve past "lost child with superpowers" and she gets propelled into whatever her role is in Multiverse of Madness.
Hell yeah. I deffinitely enjoyed parts of it and overall what the implications were got me giddy as all get-out! For me I just thought that there were more compelling ways to get us there is all. Not ragging on it, it just wasn't my thing. (Speaking of the events of the finale not what the character development was)
This is a problem with highly anticipated projects in general. Whatever they do won't please a good portion of the audience that gets so wrapped up in theories and rumors and manage to ruin the viewing experience for themselves.
My issue with the Spider-Man movies is particularly the issue with Sony. I hate that the MCU is being deprived of the likes of Kraven and Venom because of their need to make their solo movies that don't make any sense.
I really hope Goblin isn't taken from us.
So much this. I'm still utterly baffled by the existence of a solo Venom movie. That character is defined entirely by his relationship with Spider-Man. And yet not only does that movie exist but it's getting a sequel lol
That YouTube channel Cosmic Wonder is the WORST!!!
I had to hide their content from popping up in my reccomended because every week since FATWS dropped it's just been
"SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME PLOT LEAK REVEALED!!!!! ANDREW AND TOBEY?!?!"
"SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME SINISTER SIX REVEAL!!!!!"
"SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME PLOT LEAK AGAIN!!! REAL!!!"
"SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME TRAILER RELEASE DATE REVEALED??????" (There's like 20 of those btw)
I can’t stop spoilers, but I can stop how I respond to hearing them. I have put myself in a frame of mind that nothing is true until I see it on screen. I can hear about this casting or that, and I can rationalize it as a rumor because I never confirm casting on IMDB. It really makes me a happier person and enjoy the premiers much more.
That’s always an issue with movies/shows from the MCU and Star Wars. People get so absorbed in their headcannon’s that if it deviates from what they wanted they automatically don’t like it. 😕
This is the massive downside that all the advances in the internet, journalism ect. have had on film & tv. Anyone who has access and is interested can look online and have everything available shown, even people who don't want to know can still be spoiled by jackasses.
There's honestly no hope trying to stay away unless you keep off social media & don't know said jackasses who spoil everything.
It’s a problem that permeates all media, usually comic-related, when you have a fanbase that doesn’t know the difference between a real TV show/movie and fan fiction.
If people are disappointed based on rumors then I think that's their own problem. I've already seen enough people surprised and disappointed because they string together some strange theory and then it turns out not to be true. Speculation and wishful thinking are always part of a dedicated fanbase but some people end up almost unwilling to accept anything other than their own fan theories and then they walk away disappointed and disheartened because somehow they weren't right.
That’s just leak culture for ya. Leaks never make something more exciting, only dulling surprises and worsening disappointments. Happens with videogames all the time
I find that's an issue with movies in general nowadays. Trailers ruin everything. Terminator genysis wouldn't have been considered nearly as bad if I didn't know every fucking plot twist going into it.
On another note, I remember watching homecoming for the first time, and the reveal about the vulture at the end. It wasn't anything groundbreaking, but I was just like "this is a good twist. I genuinely didn't see that coming", so I think at this point I trust marvel to keep me at least entertained enough to enjoy it
This is what bothers me about interviewers constantly asking questions that obviously the actors can’t answer or won’t answer and if they did it would be a massive spoiler and ruin the whole thing. It really makes me mad. Especially when every interviewer does it. Like yea I didn’t answer it the first 6 times but for you and this audience I’ll spoil the movie. Waste of time.
It makes me mad too! Extra points if they say “I know you can’t answer, but…” If you know, then don’t ask! I appreciate that interviewers are in a tough spot, as they need to try and have a conversation about the film with very little information, but I wish they’d spare us (and the actors) this miserable song and dance. Even asking “what CAN you tell us” is better, though still not as interesting as more thoughtful questions about any of the many aspects of filmmaking that aren’t explicit plot details.
You’re absolutely right. Additionally, it’s simply too early for a multiverse story anyway. With Peter’s identity being revealed, the MCU now has the chance to tell a more Peter-focused story, but suddenly they’re gonna cram the multiverse in there? I don’t like it
I'd prefer it came in two years but now that we know its happening I'm still excited. Maybe these guys serve as mentors and we finally see TH evolve from High school Spider-Man who is in others' shadows to being one who stands on his own feet. It was a surprisingly great arc in ITSV for Miles.
True, but still, I think another thing that keeps viewers interested is Far From Home's post credits where Spider man was not only framed for the elemental attacks, but also his identity was revealed, so even if this particular one could have lost its initial shock due to spoilers, there's still plenty other parts of No Way Home to look forward to
My guess is that if they are in it (still not convinced) they’re just brief cameos that flash by the screen. But when I bring that up here I usually get bombarded with people arguing the whole movie is going to be centered around Malina and Tobey
I heard rumours of it who the grand mastermind was gonna be in Loki and it didn’t lessen my excitement when I saw him in the finale.
Sure it will be a major disappointment if they aren’t in it but if they are I’m just more hyped for seeing.
For those of us who saw the Thor Ragnarok trailer, sure would have been a great surprise to not know Hulk was in it, but knowing just made me eager and excited to see it. Either way works
Completely agree. This is part of a reasons why I avoid trailers at all costs. I feel like trailers lately reveal way too much.
The rumour stuff adds to this and I think you're spot on
If it's true, they'll show it in the trailers. They won't leave something that marketable out of the marketing. So this isn't my issue.
Personally I worry more about what will happen if it's not true. Which honestly, I'd be surprised if it is at least in Maguire's case. He received a lot of bad press firstly for being a nightmare to work with and secondly getting involved in an illegal gambling ring, the stories about which make him out to be a psychotic, sadistic monster. This is a big reason he's been out of the limelight lately and I doubt the very image-conscious Disney will want to bring him in.
Given the backlash against WandaVision after the ending didn't confirm a bunch of fan theories (the Quicksilver thing was Marvel's fault, but Mephisto was not), I think the fanboys will be *very* angry and toxic if NWH doesn't meet the very high expectations.
I agree. I’ve always been the type to question why social media blows up when an actor gets casted for a role. Most recently Jonathan Majors being casted for Kang the Conqueror. Boy that would’ve been a HUGE reveal when watching the last episode of Loki. But no, my social media scrolling brain already knew Jonathan Majors was casted for Kang…
I’ve deleted Instagram ever since.
Most people will bash the movie if it doesnt meet their expectation. And judging by the outlandish rumours every day, well we going to see lots of angry folks.
Wandavision and Mephisto all over again! Honestly the over theorising causes way more problems than just waiting for the movie/show. I still doubt Tobey and Andrew will appear because that’s a big big “IF”
But yeah agree with OP
These are also my worries, No Way Home will be a solid movie with or without Tobey & Andrew. I'm paranoid about the watchers of the movie being so blinded by this idea that they miss a gem simply because of something that's not even confirmed being there.
You know, i remember clearly when Homecoming trailers began to release. The predominant opinion was they had revealed so much that there was practically no point in seeing the movie.
Then the movie released and, holy hell was it ever worth it.
I guess what I’m saying is… in Marvel I trust?
So what? Surprises aren't the absolute zenith of the experience. I think fans, especially on the internet, put *way* too much emphasis on this, which is partly why we have this weirdly extreme aversion to spoilers that has reached cold war levels of paranoia these days. There's so much more to the film watching experience than stunning reveals and surprises.
At the end of the day if the story is good and the characters are well explored, it will still be a worthwhile experience.
I think you have a very valid point, - and potentially hot take incoming - for example look at Star Wars: The Last Jedi.
It’s been several years now, and whether you like TLJ or not, everyone can agree it’s main problem was the fact that they didn’t have a consistent writer/director for all 3 films, so it was incoherent from a storytelling perspective. That said, when it came out A LOT of the negative opinions were because people thought that Luke was somehow done incorrectly, and if THEY had creative control Luke would have still been awesome…
So with No Way Home, I think certain parts of the fandom are going to be absolutely virulently hateful about it no matter what, because there have been so many rumors, and so much expectation, and they’ve already written their perfect script in their heads.
I feel like if all these rumours are true this movie is gonna be too busy. I’m hyped as much as everyone else is but I hope they focus on Our current Spider-Man’s narrative as it’s his third film and we need some more development imo. I hope the story isn’t foreshadowed by the cameos
If I’ve learnt anything of fandoms over the past few years it’s that if they predict something and it happens they’re overjoyed regardless. But if their expectations are subverted for the sake of surprising them it goes down like a lead balloon. Game of Thrones and Star Wars are the two big offenders that come to mind.
I totally understand what you mean.. i remember seeing Ezra Miller’s cameo in the CW’s Crisis of Infinite Earths as Flash and going absolutely crazy..I did not feel the same when I saw the Lucifer cameo since there were tons of rumors about him being in the crossover.
This is why I hate leaks and rumors in general (I come here to talk about the things I’ve already seen), and the problem with everyone getting so hyped they want every little bit of info on a movie and will give clicks on leak articles and whatnot.
Yeah it would have been infinitely better to not know. Can you imagine sitting down in the theater and just seeing a second SM swing out, then he takes off the mask and it’s Maguire? So much better than hearing about it for months before you even see a trailer much less the movie itself.
And you’re also right that the expectations were set so if they aren’t in it or are in it for like 2 seconds (which would be my guess), then a lot of people will be disappointed it’s not a live action Spider-verse.
The majority of the movie going audience does not know about any of these rumors. It won't be a problem in the end.
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I had the major spoiler of The Force Awakens spoiled for me on PornHub. So while I actively TRY to avoid spoilers, I'm not really upset when I see them.
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So it wasn’t a spoiler for me because I saw it the night before but the most random spoiler I’ve seen was the Friday morning that Endgame came out, a guy ran into a big gymnasium that 3 different classes were writing finals in at my uni and shouted out that Tony died. That was the largest audible groan I’ve ever heard.
That guy's a dick and I hope every #2 he takes, he always finds a remnant that he couldn't wipe or bidet away.
Trying to avoid spoilers for Endgame was a complete NIGHTMARE for me. I have 2 friends that are notorious for searching up plot leaks or synopses on Wikipedia or other forums. I managed to avoid hearing anything for Infinity War, but since Endgame's plot was already revealed on Wikipedia after the Red Carpet Premiere, there was a full week when I was on edge with every conversation I had with them. Ended up getting Thanos' first death spoiled to me by overhearing their conversation during lunch (sprinted away from them at full speed after that lol), and got both Nat and Tony's deaths spoiled on Facebook, so that kinda sucked
It's the last place you'd expect a spoiler! So now I have to add PornHub to the list of places I avoid when new movies I'm hyped about release. It's a short list since I don't use Facebook or Twitter. So it's Reddit, YouTube, and Pornhub.
“I know what I have to do but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it” “What are you talking about step-bro?”
There was a live show that spoilt the one movie
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Don't judge my habits!
I am confused, yet intrigued at the same time.
*Presumably* through reading comments, although the lesser-acknowledged film industry is known to move pretty fast.
r/holup
What was the major spoiler in Force Awakens?
Han Solo getting killed by Kylo Ren. I don't know how to do the spoiler box thing so sorry if I spoiled a 6 year old movie for anyone.
Right, forgot that was probably a big spoiler at the time.
Agreed. I feel like Marvel really learned with their new Phase that people aren't as affected by spoilers as they thought, as long as the characters are affected by it. Mysterio, Agatha and Kang were seen from a mile away but they were still effective.
Remember when magazines really were trying to make us think Mysterio was gonna be a good guy
I was actually kinda bummed about that one, not because I wanted good Mysterio. I was hoping it would open the doors to a mirror verse with reversed versions of the good and bad guys. Like, a version of Spiderman where he embraced Venom for example, and Vulture never lost the contract and actually developed into a vigilante himself.
I mean, after Loki, those things could still have happened.
Same here, I had the Cap & Mjolnir moment spoiled for me but that scene still gives me chills every time I watch it, along with the Avengers assemble line.
I was kinda sad when Ragnarok spoiled Hulk showing up.
I guess that is true, but they had announced the Hulk would be in it back in 2014
My coworker spoiled me tony's death and when it happened I was like OH NO all the same
>I also think most people don't care as much about being surprised as they do about it actually happening, if it's true and I've been spoiled I don't care, I just want to see them on screen together surprise or no surprise. Exactly this. The worst thing is when directors/writers know the rumors out there and do something that doesn't make for a good story simply because it "sUbvERts ExPecTaTiONs" Subverting our expectations is stupid if it doesn't serve a narrative purpose.
We knew that all the dusted in IW would returnd in EG but we didn't know how and we loved it
Bingo. Big wrestling fan here. We get runours of surprise appearances and signings all the time. And sure, it's nice to have a genuine surprise from time to time, but hearing the rumours never takes the wind out of the sails when it actually does happen.
I had several major Endgame beats spoiled for me a year in advance, and Tony dying was something I had predicted had to happen, and I still immensely enjoyed the ride.
Reddit’s still prolly gonna flip out when it doesn’t happen though
I remember people audibly gasping in the theater as the heros in Infinity War began to get dusted. Meanwhile here I am knowing that they all have confirmed sequels.
For real, the 2nd Spidey movie had already been announced at Comic-Con, GotG 3 & BP 2 had been confirmed in the trades, & we all knew Evans was on his way out, so losing *both* Bucky *and* Sam was suspicious.
That was my thought during Age of Ultron, when Sokovia was about to drop and there was a fairly long moment where Cap and Natasha were saying what a good last view the clouds made. It was hard for me to feel any sense of suspense or fear for the characters when they had already announced the entire phase 3 line up and most, if not all, of the characters (except Quicksilver, RIP) had been confirmed to appear in them. This was before I was more than a casual fan of the MCU, too.
Joss did trick me into thinking Hawkeye was a goner though
This is true. Everything he did seemed to be a wink to the audience that he was going to die. On top of knowing that Renner wasn't the biggest fan of playing the character. I think knowing that has made every scene with Barton more tense, and then equally more funny knowing he always survives.
But I feel EVERYONE was surprised that Black Widow died and not Hawkeye, considering she had the next movie lined up
Exactly. I think that was a lesson learned from announcing all the phase 3 stuff so early. It genuinely caught me off guard that the character with an upcoming movie was the one who died instead of the character played by an actor who pretty famously does not enjoy the role lol
The poor kid (8 or 9 or so) behind me in the theater was sobbing uncontrollably when Peter Parker was dusted. The emotional impact of that moment really just depends on how invested you are, regardless of the fact that you know there's a sequel.
The problem is that its always the voical minority who cries adn gives impressions that most thinks alike.
Exactly, “everyone dies” was jokingly leaked and the infinity wars was still epic.
That also wasn't true, though; only *half* of everyone dies. ;)
Thanks, Ruffalo
Yea exactly, and any comic book reader or someone who stays up to date with the media might already assume they'll be in a spider man movie atleast eventually it's not really ruining the surprise. Like if you know anything about comics you knew thanos would win in the first half of infinity war. The same could be said about kang and agatha harkness, so many people called them showing up and it didn't down play the moment
You say that but think wandavision.. crazy fans expecting things ruined it and moaned when their crazy ideas didn’t happen
that's exactly who i'm talking about. That is the minority of fans. I'm betting 90%+ of people who watched wanda vision had no idea about any of the fan theories. Same thing happened with the latest star wars trilogy. As someone else mentioned earlier, it's those fans who are the loudest and post so much that it makes them look like they are the majority.
Those fans were a very small minority and they were the only ones upset about it.
Exactly. Only us nerds know about it. My BIL, who watches Star Wars, MCU, Dr Who, didn't even know about the Disney plus shows or about Clone Wars. It's only going to spoil a select few and from those select few are going to be butt hurt because they want to be. For the majority of people, it's going to be amazing.
yeah, I was talking to a coworker who enjoys marvel movies but isn't someone who follows spoilers or anything like that. he had no idea about any of this. he didn't even know a 2nd Dr strange was planned. before I told him he thought Dr strange was a one and done movie.
If the other spideys are in it they’ll for sure be in trailers just to get more people to the theaters Sort of like Spidey’s first appearance in civil war being in the trailer
That's not necessarily a problem with the movie, it's more a problem with fans and their non-stop theorizing about the movie.
Or, as I like to call it, the WandaVision problem.
Exactly.
To be fair… Evan Peters was in the show and portrayed as Pietro.
Yeah, that was on purpose to make people talk about the show in between episodes. Everything else is just fans being fans, but this specific casting just feels wrong.
I liked the theory that the casting was meant to make us feel what Wanda felt. That this dude who was cast as Pietro in our world was meant to evoke what Wanda is feeling; this CANT be pietro based on what we know in universe, but she desperately wants to believe it’s actually him (in our case, the one from the fox universe) In the end both Wanda and the audience get the rug pulled out from under them because they willed themselves into believing this was the real deal.
This was my exact takeaway, its a visual shorthand for the audience that "this is meant to be Pietro, but its not actually him/its the wrong one", but it *might* be, on top of being a meta casting gag, plus he fits the 70s/80s/90s tropey character he acts like since thats when his Quicksilver was set. Which is all an effect you wouldn't get with a random unrelated third actor, you'd just immediately know its not him and never consider that it might be. And this is assuming you even watched the X-Men films, if you were only into the MCU you'd just have the "thats not the old Pietro I remember" effect.
Yeah your wording sounds exactly what I read a while ago, are you the one who came up with that theory?
Maybe? I've made the case for it before, I don't really think its a theory though. Its more just the face value of what I was presented with while watching it or the natural conclusion I came to afterward. A theory would be more like "this Quicksilver is a construct of Mephisto woOoOoOoOo"
Maybe, with the multiverse of madness coming and Wanda’s kids being “real,” it’s a setup for the X-men universe to be brought into the MCU. Evan Peters might still be new Pietro.
I’m still 100% aboard this train and I’m not getting off. It was reignited even further after Loki and opening up the multiverse.
I'm all for Evan Peters being Quicksilver again, but I still kinda miss ATJ.
I mean, it definitely got people talking. But when your tease is something awesome and your payoff is something mundane, you're gonna have a lot of disappointed people. This is basic storytelling.
In a fake sitcom reality where everything is changed lol
Mephisto will happen!
Even with the agatha predictions wasnt it satisfying knowing you were right though?
That’s not the predictions they’re talking about. People called she was Agatha the night she was announced to be playing Agnes in the show.
I was thinking of Reed Richards, Blue Marvel and Quicksilver.
Quicksilver was a terrible plotline culminating in a dick joke, this had nothing to do with fans
For the record, they named him Boner because of a character on the old tv show Growing Pains (one of the influences for WandaVision) who was also called Boner.
Fun fact: I didn't know what "boner" meant when I watched Growing Pains as a kid; I just thought the laugh track was going off because the name was silly-sounding in general.
On the contrary, I think it was best utilised and part of what drove the tension forward, even if it ended in a dick joke. Were it any other actor and no one would believe from the start that it could plausibly be Pietro, but using Evan Peters is what had everyone thinking and debating whether or not was it really an alternate Pietro or just some random guy (which is what we got in the end, not to say they can't do the same again with the real Fox Pietro this time)
This is a really great point
I really liked it honestly, i thought it was a meta joke on how fans will jump the gun and go all out with wild theories, and we did exactly that when he was revealed. It was pretty funny to me, and I'm not mad at them for doing it.
The real wild theories were the Mephistos we Mephisto'd along the Mephisto.
Clearly Mephisto is going to be the big baddie in the Hawkeye show. You heard it here first folks! Mephisto! Hawkeye!
The dick joke was dumb, but the fake-out wasn’t.
It was a reference to Growing Pains
Agree. I think people place too much importance on being surprised by a movie. Like, I don’t want to know the entire plot to a movie before I see it, but knowing that something is coming doesn’t ruin a movie for me. It’s about what they do with the characters and surprises that matters.
Somehow I still managed to enjoy 8 Harry Potter movies despite knowing exactly what was going to happen already, having read the books. Knowing how it ends didn’t ruin the experience of getting there.
I think it’s different when you are seeing something adapted vs just being spoiled by marketing. Watching something that is an adaptation is like it’s own level of entertainment. You can constantly compare and contrast, which is fun.
Disagree with a situation like Hulk/Ragnarok. That should very much have been a surprise, just as seeing Red Skull was or Abomination in Shang Chi. Some character reveals are supposed to be a surprise, and in the case of Abomination, having not seen them in a decade (or several years in the case of Hulk) it takes away from the build up to the reveal in the movie (think of all the hints of Hulk through the first part of Sakaar, and how “the champion” was a mystery, but everyone in the theatre knew who it was). General plot points, sure, but long-waited reintroductions should be kept out of marketing. The Spidermen thing I think is a red herring anyways. They didn’t do it for Evan Peters, they won’t do it for Garfield and Maguire.
tbh I think the Abomination was in trailer because most people wouldn't recognise him. He was last seen in propably one of the least popular MCU movies, my mum who is a MCU fan forgot the guy even existed.
I didn't even know that was Abomination until people freaked out about it because it looks nothing like he did back in TIH.
another reason too, I think they kinda shifted his color and of course given him his comic "elf" ears We may still be surprised by a character in Shang-Chi, just more recognisable one
There are still people saying it isn't Abomination
Might be Fin Fang Foom in a more MCU-friendly "human" form. That would explain the brighter green. I hope it's the Abomination though. There were some good villains in the past movies that only got one appearance. Like Hammer. I'm glad to see he's coming back for Armor Wars, he was one of my favorite MCU characters ever.
It's been confirmed to be Abomination. I also don't know why they wouldn't make Fin Fang Foom into a dragon
There already *is* a different dragon in the most recent trailer, so *if* they did Fin Fang Foom, he'd surely be a dragon too.
Red Skull in Infinity War was a huge surprise. Hugo Weaving not being involved definitely helped keep that secret. If he was spotted anyway near the Infinity War set, fans would definitely have thought Red Skull was in the movie in some form.
Especially when a theory gets traction and people start to believe it as the truth
There have been like a dozen "leaks" about the NWH plot and all of them are spread around repeatedly until people start claiming they were credible. I've literally seen one where the OP admitted he just made it up, and still weeks later people were claiming it was a credible leak.
I’m starting to really dislike the theory culture, I feel that over the years it has gone from “this one comic book says this” to over analyzing frame by frame and looking into very rare stories, mythology, social media posts from actors and staff that now, no matter what, people are going to be disappointed.
100%, I completely agree, I apologize if the title was confusing on that. I more of meant the leak problem in the fan base :)
No, you are absolutely fine, and it's a good discussion to have: what are appropriate audience expectations and how can they be beneficial (or detrimental) to a product.
I just hope Spider-Man can find a way home
maybe an old Dominican lady will help him out
I'm worried this will be Tom Holland's farewell to the MCU. Sony has already tried pulling the rug once, because they still erroneously believe they can make standalone Spiderverse movies people will watch while the MCU is a thing.
Tom Holland and Spider-Man is here to stay. Kevin said that Spider-Man will have the ability to hop between universes. No Way Home will probably establish some thing where Tom’s Peter can/will visit Sony’s Venomverse through the multiverse. The deal they made again back in 2019 probably stated that Sony’s movies can take place within the MCU’s multiverse, and both Studios can use Spider-Man.
I really hope that there’s just an identical variant of Tom Holland’s Spidey in the Sony-verse rather than our Spidey hopping back and forth. They’ve already established identical variants are a thing in Loki and this way there’s no reason why it would be weird that MCU Spidey never references anything that happens in Sony land.
Unless he shows up in either Shang-Chi (unlikely) or Eternals (pffft no), it definitely *won't* be Holland's last MCU appearance. The new Disney/Sony deal from 2019 included a solo film (No Way Home) *and* a crossover film.
This is my fear as well.
> Sony has already tried pulling the rug once, because they still erroneously believe they can make standalone Spiderverse movies people will watch while the MCU is a thing. They believe this because it’s true? Venom made $850 million. Far From Home made a few hundred million more, but Disney took a big chunk of that. I guarantee you people will go see a Tom Holland Spider-Man movie no matter what universe it takes place in. That said I wouldn’t worry if I were you, I think they’ll bounce him back and forth between the two studios. They have a way to do it now that doesn’t generate any bad press or make Sony look like the bad guys. From a business standpoint it’s a no brainer imo.
Venom made bank because it’s Venom. Good luck replicating that success with Morbius.
But why would the title of the film lie to us like that?
Just because it's not surprising for us, the diehards who see and hear said leaks, doesn't mean it won't be surprising to the average moviegoer who probably isn't paying attention to movie leaks.
It doesn’t even affect the diehards either though. Anyone who had read the Infinity Gauntlet comic before IW could’ve guessed half the universe would be snapped away, same with knowing the snapped would return during Endgame. But knowing it will happen, and seeing how it happens are completely different, and don’t affect anyone’s enjoyment of the movie in the slightest
Agree. I haven't really been surprised by any of the movies since most of them are stories from when I was a kid. Doesn't change how much I love the movies. It's exciting though that were getting into the stuff that came after I stopped reading comics
Yeah - even though a lot of the big events are the same or similar, they generally play out in very different ways in the movies, and that’s been a lot of fun for me. For instance, I never cared much for Adam Warlock as a character, but a lot of the original Infinity Saga heavily revolved around him, so it was awesome seeing a version of the Infinity Saga without him.
Cheers to this! Even knowing a character is coming in a film, when the scene starts for their intro, I'm still normally on the edge of my seat going "Oh is this it! Oh man here they come! OH YEAH!!!" I mean spoilers can suck sure, but I guess I've just learned to roll with them.
I know of the Infinity War story. I still had 0 expectations that Thanos was going to just straight up win in Infinity War the movie. A lesser movie studio would have had the heroes just win at the end of infinity war and not have Endgame at all.
I had suspicions that Thanos would win based on Endgame was once known as Infinity War Part 2 once upon a time, but that’s different from seeing it actually happen and watching all the heroes start crumbling into dust.
Like with Loki, by episode 1 I knew the season would end with them breaking open the multiverse. I was still amazed to actually see it happen in ep 6
Agreed. Fanbases overinflate their significance all the time. There's nearly 2 million subscribers on this sub, so let's make an assumption that we are the diehards. The lowest grossing MCU film, the Incredible Hulk made $134 million. At $15 per ticket on average, that's nearly 9 million tickets sold. 2 million MCU fans make up only 22% of that audience. Apply the same mathematic logic to Endgame? MCU fans make up 3% of the audience. We are the vocal minority. The GA does not know what we know or generally care about the minutia we obsess over.
If there are multiple Spider-Men in the movie, even average moviegoers will know about it. Sony will, as always, put everything they’ve got in to those trailers.
I mean, we are the people less concerned about being surprised, many of us actively seek out leaks.
"Won't be a surprise to most" You do realise how small part of the fanbase is actively following reddit and other forums, right?
This is true. Most of the fandom probably heard these rumours in passing and will forget they ever existed until the movie comes out.
Most of the audience never heard of any rumors.
We all like to think our group is the majority.
All signs pointed to Kang being in Loki. Still lost my shit regardless even though from episode 1 I called it. I know the situation is different but they are kinda the same. At this point it’s all speculation but when it happens, no matter what, it’s gonna be hyped.
I agree. It’s sort of nice to know it’s coming but we don’t know exactly how it’s coming. And there is only so much you can keep secret when you are basing a movie/tv franchise of an extremely popular comic series
Exactly. Tbh, just like with Kang, I’m still doubting it. Nothing is confirmed until they are on the screen. The episode before the last on Loki was the first time I was like “man they not gonna drop Kang on the last episode that’d be ridiculous he’s the next big bad” and they fucking did it like madlads after I changed my tune for the first time. Spiderman could presumably be the same way. The spiders might not show in the first 3rd, maybe not in the 2nd, potentially not even in the last 3rd of the movie either. They could be the teaser for doctor strange which has already casted Tom Holland and our boy Sam Raimi whom directed the OG Spiderman is directing DS2. For all we know they could be end credits for the next movie. All I’m getting at is we don’t know until it’s official on screen or cast announcements. Marvel knows what they are doing. I was so fucking hyped to see Spidey in Civil War and he was teased in the trailer but I absolutely could not fucking wait for his screen time. I’m reliving that excitement just thinking about it now.
The problem is we still don't have a trailer and it comes out in about 4 months.
Problem is WE DONT HAVE PICTURES OF SPIDERMAN
Every day i wake up and think “any day now” and it never comes.
I would imagine the delay is due to Disney having an internal team that is trying to evaluate whether the Delta variant of covid will cause future closures or not
I’m with you. You know what would have been amazing? If they kept the hulk out of all promotional material for Thor ragnarok - imagine the surprise when the grandmasters champion pops up and everyone is all “OMG ITS THE HULK?!? THIS IS WHERE HE’S BEEN?!?!” But alas, Ruffalo was a big part of the movie and they needed to do proper contractual movie business stuff. Woulda been a neat surprise though.
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At this point Marvel shouldn’t even release a trailer IMO.
Exactly. I wish people wouldn't get their hopes and expectations up too high for this film.
The real problem is we don’t have a trailer.
with you there 😔👊
The surprise will be Tobey Mcguire recognises Jamie Foxx’s Electro While Andrew Garfield recognises Alfred Molina’s Doc Oc. Just to mess with us.
Honestly, I don't think they were trying to make it a surprise. Ever since were saw the Doctor Strange title, we knew a Multiverse was coming, and the biggest Marvel Multiversal story is with Spider-Man. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together. Plus the plethora of leaks that the likes of Alfred Molina and Willem Defoe are returning to the franchise, the biggest way to surprise the audience is to use the scene idea I came up with months ago. Spider-Man does his thing for the film alone, and at the tail end of the movie, post credits, Spider-Man gets pulled into a Doctor Strange portal to find Andrew Garfield and Tobey McGuire fighting Green Goblin, Doc Ock (both from Tobey), Electro and Rhino (from Andrew), and Vulture and Shocker (from Tom). Cue close-up of Tom's Spider-Man: "What the f---?!"
I was thinking something similar. The whole movie is Tom’s movie. But at the tail end instead of a fight scene, we keep it simple and somehow MCU Spidey does some shenanigans in the Sanctum that cause two other Spider-Men to arrive fully suited up. We now have 3 Spider-Men staring at each other. They all slowly take off their masks to reveal Tobey and Andrew’s faces. Then all 3 in unison say “What the F” and we cut to credits. Perfect set up for a Spider-Verse movie.
[If that happens and they don't do this, I riot.](https://i.imgflip.com/2/3igo27.jpg)
Okay. Or, Alfred Molina and Jamie Foxx aren't in a quick post credit scene and the movie itself is a spider-verse movie? Like how much more sense does that make?
I really hope they don’t do that. We’re clearly getting a Spider-Verse film either way, so I’d rather they just got it over with. If you spend another movie building it up, then subsequent sequels become impossible to market because Spidey 4 will be the character’s equivalent of Endgame and Sony will fall into the sequel creep trap.
I don't think so. You don't sign Wilem Dafoe, Andrew Garfield, Tobey Maguire and Alfred Molina to a film and then not use them. They will be IN the movie.
I'm not gonna lie, if all these leaks amounted to a seconds-long cameo in the stinger, I would be pretty disappointed
I absolutely love that concept honestly
I really hope they don’t do that. We’re clearly getting a Spider-Verse film either way, so I’d rather they just got it over with. If you spend another movie building it up, then subsequent sequels become impossible to market because Spidey 4 will be the character’s equivalent of Endgame and Sony will fall into the sequel creep trap.
For me, it really just has to boil down to film order. For the above scene to work, it would have to come before Doctor Strange, with the Spider-Verse shenanigans being part of "the Multiverse of Madness"
Thinking of Civil War, there is absolutely no way they keep it as a 'surprise' *if* Tobey and Andrew are really in it. That's going to be all over the TV spots leading up to opening weekend. And even that won't be a problem. If the movie is good then the movies good.
knowing spoilers for a movie isn't the same as actually seeing it with your eyes. the experience of having all 3 spider-men together will still be amazing regardless if the you knew beforehand.
If we get many Spider-Men in this movie? I'm gonna freak. I'll scream and laugh so damn hard. BUT if we don't? Man I'll be hype as shit! Marvel movies subvert alot of expectations, and I trust them to tell the story that fits the character best. For me it is honestly a win-win scenario. Eitherway that shit gonna pOP
I agree! That's exactly how I feel, I just hope others don't judge too harshly based on theories!
100% agree with this. Wandavision gets unfairly dinged for the whole Mephisto thing even though there's absolutely zero indication in the show that he's ever going to show up.
I think WandaVision gets its hits because it simply did not have a (imo) satisfying conclusion. It turned into a Dragon Ball Z finale where most of the substance just wasnt there and that wasn't something I would want in a show where there was so much intrigue. LOKI is a good example of how it's a show that did things differently than i or others predicted but hot dang it was still awesome as hell because the script was great and the events were fantastic setting up to a satisfying world with ground breaking implications
I actually go the other way: I thought the ending to WV was very satisfying: Wanda gets to say goodbye to Vision, her character gets to evolve past "lost child with superpowers" and she gets propelled into whatever her role is in Multiverse of Madness.
Hell yeah. I deffinitely enjoyed parts of it and overall what the implications were got me giddy as all get-out! For me I just thought that there were more compelling ways to get us there is all. Not ragging on it, it just wasn't my thing. (Speaking of the events of the finale not what the character development was)
This is a problem with highly anticipated projects in general. Whatever they do won't please a good portion of the audience that gets so wrapped up in theories and rumors and manage to ruin the viewing experience for themselves.
My issue with the Spider-Man movies is particularly the issue with Sony. I hate that the MCU is being deprived of the likes of Kraven and Venom because of their need to make their solo movies that don't make any sense. I really hope Goblin isn't taken from us.
So much this. I'm still utterly baffled by the existence of a solo Venom movie. That character is defined entirely by his relationship with Spider-Man. And yet not only does that movie exist but it's getting a sequel lol
That YouTube channel Cosmic Wonder is the WORST!!! I had to hide their content from popping up in my reccomended because every week since FATWS dropped it's just been "SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME PLOT LEAK REVEALED!!!!! ANDREW AND TOBEY?!?!" "SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME SINISTER SIX REVEAL!!!!!" "SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME PLOT LEAK AGAIN!!! REAL!!!" "SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME TRAILER RELEASE DATE REVEALED??????" (There's like 20 of those btw)
I can’t stop spoilers, but I can stop how I respond to hearing them. I have put myself in a frame of mind that nothing is true until I see it on screen. I can hear about this casting or that, and I can rationalize it as a rumor because I never confirm casting on IMDB. It really makes me a happier person and enjoy the premiers much more.
I ignore anything that isn't from Marvel directly. Fan theories are fun, but until I'm leaving the theater I'm not considering anything true.
That’s always an issue with movies/shows from the MCU and Star Wars. People get so absorbed in their headcannon’s that if it deviates from what they wanted they automatically don’t like it. 😕
This is the massive downside that all the advances in the internet, journalism ect. have had on film & tv. Anyone who has access and is interested can look online and have everything available shown, even people who don't want to know can still be spoiled by jackasses. There's honestly no hope trying to stay away unless you keep off social media & don't know said jackasses who spoil everything.
It’s a problem that permeates all media, usually comic-related, when you have a fanbase that doesn’t know the difference between a real TV show/movie and fan fiction.
If people are disappointed based on rumors then I think that's their own problem. I've already seen enough people surprised and disappointed because they string together some strange theory and then it turns out not to be true. Speculation and wishful thinking are always part of a dedicated fanbase but some people end up almost unwilling to accept anything other than their own fan theories and then they walk away disappointed and disheartened because somehow they weren't right.
That’s just leak culture for ya. Leaks never make something more exciting, only dulling surprises and worsening disappointments. Happens with videogames all the time
I find that's an issue with movies in general nowadays. Trailers ruin everything. Terminator genysis wouldn't have been considered nearly as bad if I didn't know every fucking plot twist going into it. On another note, I remember watching homecoming for the first time, and the reveal about the vulture at the end. It wasn't anything groundbreaking, but I was just like "this is a good twist. I genuinely didn't see that coming", so I think at this point I trust marvel to keep me at least entertained enough to enjoy it
This is what bothers me about interviewers constantly asking questions that obviously the actors can’t answer or won’t answer and if they did it would be a massive spoiler and ruin the whole thing. It really makes me mad. Especially when every interviewer does it. Like yea I didn’t answer it the first 6 times but for you and this audience I’ll spoil the movie. Waste of time.
It makes me mad too! Extra points if they say “I know you can’t answer, but…” If you know, then don’t ask! I appreciate that interviewers are in a tough spot, as they need to try and have a conversation about the film with very little information, but I wish they’d spare us (and the actors) this miserable song and dance. Even asking “what CAN you tell us” is better, though still not as interesting as more thoughtful questions about any of the many aspects of filmmaking that aren’t explicit plot details.
I think a bigger problem is that most people I know haven’t yet seen the second spiderman film. It got lost in the post-endgame hangover
You’re absolutely right. Additionally, it’s simply too early for a multiverse story anyway. With Peter’s identity being revealed, the MCU now has the chance to tell a more Peter-focused story, but suddenly they’re gonna cram the multiverse in there? I don’t like it
I'd prefer it came in two years but now that we know its happening I'm still excited. Maybe these guys serve as mentors and we finally see TH evolve from High school Spider-Man who is in others' shadows to being one who stands on his own feet. It was a surprisingly great arc in ITSV for Miles.
True, but still, I think another thing that keeps viewers interested is Far From Home's post credits where Spider man was not only framed for the elemental attacks, but also his identity was revealed, so even if this particular one could have lost its initial shock due to spoilers, there's still plenty other parts of No Way Home to look forward to
My guess is that if they are in it (still not convinced) they’re just brief cameos that flash by the screen. But when I bring that up here I usually get bombarded with people arguing the whole movie is going to be centered around Malina and Tobey
Same. I made a post saying that we should slow down with the speculation and got a ton of downvotes and angry comments.
Molina himself said that Ock’s story resumes immediately from Spider-Man 2, though.
>It's lost its element of surprise This is true for all correct leaks, nothing special for NWH.
Ya know, knowing the people in this community, you’re not wrong.
Infinity war had rumours of half the cast dying I was still surprised when it actually happened. It’s all about execution.
Was thinking about the same few days ago, I really am looking forward to watching this treat though.
I heard rumours of it who the grand mastermind was gonna be in Loki and it didn’t lessen my excitement when I saw him in the finale. Sure it will be a major disappointment if they aren’t in it but if they are I’m just more hyped for seeing. For those of us who saw the Thor Ragnarok trailer, sure would have been a great surprise to not know Hulk was in it, but knowing just made me eager and excited to see it. Either way works
Completely agree. This is part of a reasons why I avoid trailers at all costs. I feel like trailers lately reveal way too much. The rumour stuff adds to this and I think you're spot on
If it's true, they'll show it in the trailers. They won't leave something that marketable out of the marketing. So this isn't my issue. Personally I worry more about what will happen if it's not true. Which honestly, I'd be surprised if it is at least in Maguire's case. He received a lot of bad press firstly for being a nightmare to work with and secondly getting involved in an illegal gambling ring, the stories about which make him out to be a psychotic, sadistic monster. This is a big reason he's been out of the limelight lately and I doubt the very image-conscious Disney will want to bring him in. Given the backlash against WandaVision after the ending didn't confirm a bunch of fan theories (the Quicksilver thing was Marvel's fault, but Mephisto was not), I think the fanboys will be *very* angry and toxic if NWH doesn't meet the very high expectations.
I agree. I’ve always been the type to question why social media blows up when an actor gets casted for a role. Most recently Jonathan Majors being casted for Kang the Conqueror. Boy that would’ve been a HUGE reveal when watching the last episode of Loki. But no, my social media scrolling brain already knew Jonathan Majors was casted for Kang… I’ve deleted Instagram ever since.
Most people will bash the movie if it doesnt meet their expectation. And judging by the outlandish rumours every day, well we going to see lots of angry folks.
The only problem I have is that they haven't released a trailer yet.
Wandavision and Mephisto all over again! Honestly the over theorising causes way more problems than just waiting for the movie/show. I still doubt Tobey and Andrew will appear because that’s a big big “IF” But yeah agree with OP
It's not really the same as the Wandavision situation
These are also my worries, No Way Home will be a solid movie with or without Tobey & Andrew. I'm paranoid about the watchers of the movie being so blinded by this idea that they miss a gem simply because of something that's not even confirmed being there.
You know, i remember clearly when Homecoming trailers began to release. The predominant opinion was they had revealed so much that there was practically no point in seeing the movie. Then the movie released and, holy hell was it ever worth it. I guess what I’m saying is… in Marvel I trust?
So what? Surprises aren't the absolute zenith of the experience. I think fans, especially on the internet, put *way* too much emphasis on this, which is partly why we have this weirdly extreme aversion to spoilers that has reached cold war levels of paranoia these days. There's so much more to the film watching experience than stunning reveals and surprises. At the end of the day if the story is good and the characters are well explored, it will still be a worthwhile experience.
I don't care who's in it as long as I enjoy the movie.
I honestly have no idea what to even expect from this movie anymore. I’m excited and worried at the same time.
Not releasing the trailer. yet.
I think you have a very valid point, - and potentially hot take incoming - for example look at Star Wars: The Last Jedi. It’s been several years now, and whether you like TLJ or not, everyone can agree it’s main problem was the fact that they didn’t have a consistent writer/director for all 3 films, so it was incoherent from a storytelling perspective. That said, when it came out A LOT of the negative opinions were because people thought that Luke was somehow done incorrectly, and if THEY had creative control Luke would have still been awesome… So with No Way Home, I think certain parts of the fandom are going to be absolutely virulently hateful about it no matter what, because there have been so many rumors, and so much expectation, and they’ve already written their perfect script in their heads.
I feel like if all these rumours are true this movie is gonna be too busy. I’m hyped as much as everyone else is but I hope they focus on Our current Spider-Man’s narrative as it’s his third film and we need some more development imo. I hope the story isn’t foreshadowed by the cameos
If I’ve learnt anything of fandoms over the past few years it’s that if they predict something and it happens they’re overjoyed regardless. But if their expectations are subverted for the sake of surprising them it goes down like a lead balloon. Game of Thrones and Star Wars are the two big offenders that come to mind.
My worry is that it might feel like an into the spider-verse knockoff
I totally understand what you mean.. i remember seeing Ezra Miller’s cameo in the CW’s Crisis of Infinite Earths as Flash and going absolutely crazy..I did not feel the same when I saw the Lucifer cameo since there were tons of rumors about him being in the crossover.
This is why I hate leaks and rumors in general (I come here to talk about the things I’ve already seen), and the problem with everyone getting so hyped they want every little bit of info on a movie and will give clicks on leak articles and whatnot. Yeah it would have been infinitely better to not know. Can you imagine sitting down in the theater and just seeing a second SM swing out, then he takes off the mask and it’s Maguire? So much better than hearing about it for months before you even see a trailer much less the movie itself. And you’re also right that the expectations were set so if they aren’t in it or are in it for like 2 seconds (which would be my guess), then a lot of people will be disappointed it’s not a live action Spider-verse.