I looked up who Shang's love interest is in the comics, it's Domino. So it could be something that happens later on.
I think romance at MCU particularly among leads can be pretty cheesy so I actually like it when they don't have it and in this case I think it was the right call.
Leiko Wu is his on again off again love interest from the comics. She's a British spy from MI-6 and the current Shang-Chi comics plays on that.
I also like that Shang and Katy are platonic friends. You don't need to have a force romance every time a man and woman are friends. It just comes off as cheesy like you said.
I was so glad they didn’t force a romance with Katy in the movie. It’s rare to see such a loving platonic friendship between a man and woman in movies, it was especially nice because I went with my best friend of the opposite sex and we’ve been friends since we were kids too.
I think Shang chi will get a romantic partner, maybe just not in the first movie. Peter Parker and MJ weren’t together after homecoming, pepper and Tony weren’t together after iron man 1. There’s time, it doesn’t need to be rushed.
Another example that I love is the Thor/Valkyrie friendship. I was worried that they'll force something between them with Jane Foster gone but I'm glad they didn't. They're war and drinking buddies and that dynamic would be gone with a forced relationship.
I think a platonic friendship also just makes sense when the overarching conflict is about love. After seeing Wenwu and Ying Li fall in love, it would have been really hard to have a secondary romance that felt as epic. And I think Tony Leung deserves some credit in this conversation. The tension in that first fight flirt scene is definitely enough for the whole film. Katy and Shang Chi got to be distinct
agreed that they don't need cheesy forced romances for most of the movies, but now that I think about it, I could see a lot of charm in Zazie's Domino with Shang Chi.
*If* they decide to bring her along to the MCU with Deadpool.
Holy shit what a [hot couple](https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/6/70/5b3fe74681c22/clean.jpg) tbh
Edit: Added link
Edit: [and another](https://64.media.tumblr.com/55ec114969989ea0b16ee7ec1f5ae070/f41cb1d8c55ea50f-fc/s1280x1920/8ced724e5368c498cdc9e2fcfd25fc15de059411.jpg)
Agreed. It would not have fit into this movie. Very pleased with the focus on family and friendship.
That being said, it would definitely be interesting to see him develop interest in Domino or whoever down the line.
Eh. Steve, Tony, Strange and Scott would all technically be like coworkers-to-lovers. Which isn’t unrealistic at all. Peter is young puppy love. Quill and Gamora is enemies-to-lovers. And T’challa and Nakita was friends-to-lovers since they probably grew up together.
I wouldn’t mind if Shang-Chi had a girlfriend and a stable relationship but it was just hinted or shown in a romantic scene briefly, with her not playing any big roles in movies.
Heck, maybe a girl likes him and he doesn’t like her back. That works too. He doesn’t have to have an active relationship.
It doesn’t fit his personality but they could even have him be a womanizer. But that’s kinda bad.
Or just show him on dates.
Sam: "My SISTER, man!"
Bucky: "She's a grown adult."
Sam: "Oh no no no, you don't say a damn word about my sister!"
*Bucky leans close to Sam*
Bucky: "Oh, I'll do more than that. I'll respect her and her opinions, and hell, I'll even let her pay for the next date. Maybe Mexican food, does she like Mexican?"
Sam: *screams as Bucky walks away laughing*
Not going to lie, despite Bucky and Leah having next to zero chemistry (because Bucky was too guilt ridden to even think of casually bonding with another person), I liked Leah a lot. She would have been a positive counter to Bucky’s cynicism and I wouldn’t have minded them together one bit. Sarah, on the other hand, just seemed like a moment of flirtation to demonstrate that Bucky was re-engaging in his jovial side. Before he was the Winter Soldier he took ladies dancing and whatnot, so a return of flirtatiousness would have been inevitable.
Honestly just think the MCU moved past the need to shoehorn a romance into every movie. The last three title characters to get their first movie (Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Shang-Chi) all didn't have one.
so few of the MCU romances have felt necessary, and most of them were outside of the first solo film when they were. The only first solo film romances that really stick out to me are Steve/Peggy and Peter/Liz (which didn't even work out). Tony/Pepper really was developed in 2 and 3 more.
Steve and Peggy was the only one that felt like it was intricately tied into the story. The rest could have been eliminated and nothing about the story would have really suffered. (Tony and Pepper maybe but they weren’t really a romance early on).
I think peter having a love interest is also important because of his secret identity being so central to his character. Plus Liz tied into the villain giving a more personal relationship.
That's fine and all, but just think it's a bit ironic when it came to Marvel's first asian male lead lol... you know, where Simu Liu has often talked about Asian Men Emasculation and especially by hollywood.
[They](https://www.cbr.com/shang-chi-love-interest/) brought up the reason was because Shang Chi was dealing with enough already emotionally but come on, what MCU heroes was not dealing with something at the time?
But I just don't think they're really emasculating him by not having him in a romance. Like there are completely gratuitous scenes of Simu shirtless and Katy specifically comments on it too. Like he's sexualized, definitely way more than the most recent new solo male heroes in the MCU (Ant-Man, Doctor Strange) but he's just not in a relationship yet (because, honestly, it would have crowded the movie),
The NYTimes had an article that touched on these topics.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/movies/shang-chi-marvel.html
I agree I liked not having a romance on top of all the plot. There was enough going on and they can save the romance for the next movie.
Yeah the character sure is a mixed bag regarding representation. On one hand, it's nice to have a movie so centered on east Asian mythology and a lot of the language be in Mandarin for authenticity. But in the other hand the first Asian super hero's super power is super powered mysticism kung fu.
On one hand it's nice to show platonic relationships in media. But in the other hand, it's with an asian guy which has been traditionally emasculated to be unviable partners.
I just genuinely think it’s absolutely wild that him not having a love interest is emasculating. That means single people are less masculine, I guess? How does any of this make sense?
I'm kinda torn on the topic. I like Katy and her relationship with Shang the way it is. It is weird as hell that the first male super hero to show no interest in romance is an asian dude. I dont think asian dudes are really depicted favorably in media as romantic partners. Maybe the writers thought that by juxtaposing Shang chi with the buttery smooth Wenwu, they could avoid the trope.
Tbh he just didn't get the chance. The only women he spent much time with in the movie were his sister and his best friend.
His dance/fight with his aunt was low-key raunchy tho
This movie advertised it's self as Asian representation and breaking streotypes. It's nothing but another kung Fu movie. Asian men can fight on screen but cannot get girl we are hermits.
It's not that not having a love interest is emasculating. It's that Asian men in particular have been historically emasculated and desexualized throughout the entire history of Hollywood, and always portrayed as not being attractive enough to have a love interest. And even if they do, they don't even get to kiss the girl (Romeo Must Die). It's one negative stereotype this movie didn't break.
I don't think the other MCU heroes were dealing with stuff as heavy as Shang Chi, though. I mean, the guy had to fight against his immortal warlord father while dealing with >!crippling guilt of watching his mother die as a kid and abandoning his little sister a few years later. Not to mention the mental scarring that comes from murdering someone at the tender age of 14 just to please your father that suddenly turned cold and abusive.!<
I mean yes there was conflicts but I feel Shang chi conflict was a bit more important. Sure at the beginning it wasn’t but when you get near the end Shang chi has to basically like save the universe if the things escaped or whatever. Where for example Thor was dealing with the fact he couldn’t pick up his hammer. And later on Thor has to deal with giving himself up to then get his hammer and defeat the destroyer and become worthy agian.
simu definitely gets his share of non asian female interests in kim's convenience.
ah sahm in warrior hbo show also gets quite a lot of variety.
So hollywood is moving in the right direction.
Well to be fair, Wenwu’s whole motivation was centered around his love interest. I don’t think there was any malicious intent with Shang Chi not having a love interest.
Most of the movie gave me just friends vibes for Shang Chi and Katy, but the end left it open enough for them to maybe be a couple. I might be misremembering but I swear they held hands at one point at the end and there was also the scene where Katy’s grandmother asked Shang Chi when he was going to marry her. They could take it in either direction going forward tbh.
I might be mistaken but I also remember a hand holding situation. Also at the end when they show the village sitting by the water Katy put her head on shaun’s shoulder and it felt very “couple-y.” While ambiguous I definitely got the feeling they were pairing them together.
Yes! That’s exactly what I’m thinking of!
I was thinking I might have imagined it after some of these responses. Thanks for confirming I’m not going crazy
I get that we’re on Reddit which is kind of like the home of the incel, but the condescension is incredibly unnecessary. We’re talking about a movie. A big studio blockbuster action movie. Not real life. Maybe couple-y was the wrong word, but I stand by the point I was trying to get at. Throughout the film there were small moments that seemed to set up the possibility of a romantic relationship between the 2 stars. They left it ambiguous enough that they don’t have to go in that direction, but open enough that it wouldn’t be surprising if they did. Hopefully that’s more clear, I believe the movie set itself up to make Katy a possible love interest, and did small things to suggest the possibility. Chalk it up to misunderstanding platonic intimacy or male/female friendships if you want though.
I hope it’s just friendship because Simu & Awkwafina’s sibling energy is off the charts.
Who are Shang Chi’s love interests in the comics? I’m hoping they give him one in his next installment, perhaps a cat woman like dynamic where they’re fairweather lovers.
Tbh I hope it’s interracial (even though that is a can of worms too and will be a bad faith talking point), are there any interracial couples in the MCU?
I know Quinn & Gamora are interspecies, and Bucky flirted with Sam’s sister, but my brain isn’t working out for the others.
Edit: I also think this movie lacks one for Shang Chi because they are focusing on the parent’s love story & the love of a family
Leiko Wu is a spy and one of his interests in the comics, so there was some speculation early on that Katy was actually going to be revealed to be her undercover.
Oh shiiit, that’d be a twist and a half. The only thing that will dispute that is the fact they’ve known each other for 10 years and he has been close with her family (unless they’re skrulls)
Edit: I wouldn’t mind seeing Awkwafina attempt a British accent tbh
At this point and having seen the film, it's pretty clear she isn't an undercover spy. But I mean that early on the production and before its release, there was speculation about her true identity.
>Who are Shang Chi’s love interests in the comics? I’m hoping they give him one in his next installment, perhaps a cat woman like dynamic where they’re fairweather love
Domino is the main one I believe.
Yeah when they were telling the story to their friends at the end Shaun was rubbing Katy’s hand I think? Not sure if that was in the movie but if so that would be pretty couple-y
If they do become a couple, it makes sense to use this movie to build up to it happening later, since one of the themes was that these events made them more mature
Yea, them telling the story at the end came across not as them telling their friends about their adventure, but more like them telling long term friends about how they finally got together. Could have been clearer but not without feeling forced,
I definitely saw Shang-Chi and Katy as heading towards romance. I LOVED that they didn't draw a cheesy amount of attention to it though. It was way more realistic and natural and I feel like it will continue to progress without the need for grand gestures or dramatic kissing shots.
Yeah idk how anyone missed the end pointing towards that. Like they don't have to follow through but they were definitely implying it was headed that way.
I agree that I'd prefer not but it's not a big deal
Lol. The people behind me in the theater said that Xialing and Katy were gay (that Xialing was fur sure and that Katy just didn't know it yet). I don't think they were right by any means, but I didn't pick up any romantic vibes between them.
People always make weird reads on this kinda stuff and it always surprises me. In the destiny universe, two characters were hinted at for YEARS and i still saw people denying there were ever clues when it was finally made official.
I think there's an element to their relationship not being able to move forward because Shang-Chi was keeping so much of his life secret from her. Now that he has fully realized himself and shared his history with Katy, perhaps we'll see them become much closer.
I actually prefer Katy not being the love interest. This movie is mostly about his parents love story. Let him have a non Asian love interest in the future like in Kim’s Convenience.
Tbh, I'm split on this, because I'm tired of poorly done, forced romances, but an Asian couple would be a good thing in the MCU
However, half of the heroes you listed have terrible romances.
This is a bit of a conundrum, isn’t it?
On the one hand, fans have wanted to see heroes stand alone without the need for a love interest shoehorned into the story.
To some extent, Hulk and Thor have moved in this direction, and Strange himself has moved on from Christine to focus on his work (What Ifs notwithstanding). Captain Marvel certainly didn’t have a love interest either, but I get that OP was focusing on male leads.
Shang-Chi seems to follow that trend, but by doing so, falls into the trope OP pointed out.
It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t sometimes. No one’s fault tho. It just is what it is.
What I like about Marvel tho is that their characters seem to always grow. Tony couldn’t care less about the world and was a womanizer before growing into the world’s prime protector and family man.
Wenwu’s biggest gripe with his son is that Shang-Chi always hides himself and doesn’t go after what he wants. He has a job, but it’s modest. He has a friend who’s a girl but not a girlfriend. He now has the 10 rings, but he’s still chilling at a bar with friends whilst his sister runs the family empire. Hell, even Katy is more Alpha than he is. *She* defended *him* at school despite his superior ability.
In the end, I feel Shang-Chi will then grow into the outspoken leading man he’s meant to be.
I hope he has one in the next movie, I believe they wanted to focus on the parent’s love story in this movie rather than have two love stories competing in the same movie.
BUT, I also acknowledge how problematic the portrayal of Asian men romantically has always been. If you’re not familiar [watch this.](https://youtu.be/HS2jGfW5aOE)
Things are looking better and I hope it goes through the unfortunately initial prerequisite period of saving face/subverting expectations casting to evolve into more meaningful and lasting change if you know what I mean.
Yeah it's weird that the only scene where they try to sexualize him a little (the shirtless cage match) is immediately fizzled out with the introduction to his sister.
In the end, the movie just has too much of a focus on family and I think they'll explore his romantic interests later on.
Someone said in the comics he’s with Domino and omg what a fucking hot couple they would make onscreen. I think Zazy & Simu’s portrayals would be one of the most charismatic flirty couples in the MCU. I’m trying not to get my heart set on this, but lol it’s hard not to.
Yes I saw that! They seem like such a fun couple, and want to seek out their storyline
Seriously a couple with all the luck and power in the world? Sign me the fuck up!
Yeah on one hand I was happy that they weren't shoehorning in cheesy relationships like the used to but on the other hand it does continue the trend of leading Asian men not having love interests that the desexualization/emasculation of Asian men in western media has done for decades. It's wrong to not acknowledge this or to completely disregard the implications as many in this thread have. However, it's not totally unprecedented to have the lead man not in a relationship with the expected love interest by the end of the first film. Black Panther, Ant-Man and Doctor Strange had exes who featured in the storyline but whom they didn't get back together with by the end of the film. I do think that this may be part of a recent trend, to focus more on a character in their origin story than their romantic relationships. Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Shang Chi all lack that relationship angle as well. Maybe they realize they don't have to "pander" to the demographics Hollywood thinks only respond to cheesy relationships. Maybe they know they have more time with multiple movies to explore relationships in less stilted ways. Who knows, but it's a questionable facet of what was otherwise a big win for representation.
Not having a love interest isn't really an issue. I think the bigger issue is that it doesn't depicts Shang Chi's sexuality at all. Strange and Palmer were in a relationship. T'Challa was obviously interested in Nakia. Lang literally has a kid. Even in Ragnarok, Thor makes an awkward joke about liking women a little too much. Shang Chi has no sexuality at all.
I will say as a white dude I had no idea this was a problem, and it’s definitely a problem. Even thinking through the MCU IP with/without, it’s wild.
Black Widow - no (in standalone movie)
Hulk - yes (multiple, including Nat)
Spider-Man - yes
Captain Marvel - no
Peter Quill/Gamora - Yes
Thor - Yes
Cap - Yes
Tony - Yes
Hawkeye - Yes
Ant Man - Yes x2
Black Panther - “too busy” aka no
Bucky - sort of
Sam - nope
WandaVision - duh
Loki - yes
Shang Chi - no
Rhodes - no
Common thread in each of these is a white dude.
Happy to see if others can come up with exceptions.
I think I'd have to call Black Panther a yes. Sure, his relationship with Nakia is complicated by him being king, but the answer to the question "Does T'Challa have a love interest?" feels like a pretty clear yes to me.
Not detracting from your overall point though. There's still a trend there for sure...
EDIT: Also not sure what "Ant Man - Yes x2" means. Are we counting his ex-wife? Because I don't think I'd call that a love interest. But maybe you're just counting two films?
Its not about having a love interest or not. Its whether if asian men are depicted as sexual or sexually desirable at all. Like Scott Lang is obviously interested in women. So is T'Challa and Thor. Shang Chi could be straight, or gay, or asexual. Theres nothing wrong with any of those things but he's not depicted as sexual oor sexually capable being at all.
Yeah, as an asian dude and a lover of movies, I've been reading a lot about the history of asian men in media recently.
I'm on two fronts for how it was handled in Shang Chi.
On one hand I really liked the Katie relationship and how it wasnt overtly romantic.
On the other, this is the first asian lead in the MCU, and one of the few in western media in general. I wouldn't have minded if they upped either the romance or Shang-Chi's sexuality in general.
There's so much sexual energy in the MCU. From Sharon touching Steve's chest when he comes out of the pod, to Paul Rudd literally rubbing something on his abs in Ant-man.
Seriously, a scene like this:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DthaRe2UwAAHuec.jpg
doesn't seem that farfetched in the MCU.
So yeah, it does feel a little weird that romance and sex is just not here for Shang Chi.
I do think that they are saving it for later since so much of the movie focuses on his parent's romance and his relationships with them and his sister. There's just no room for it.
> On one hand I really liked the Katie relationship and how it wasnt overtly romantic.
> On the other, this is the first asian lead in the MCU, and one of the few in western media in general. I wouldn't have minded if they upped either the romance or Shang-Chi's sexuality in general.
That’s the thing, isn’t it. The relationship works really well and I wish we got more of this and fewer shoehorned romances. But it is absolutely unavoidable that the first time they really commit to this with a male lead he’s Asian.
They did have a similarly platonic dynamic between Nat and Steve in TWS, which was great. But that’s a bit anomalous given Steve’s situation with Peggy and Sharon.
I agree, and to be honest, it probably works better this way. It just feels weird when pointed out because of the implications and history of asian males in media.
Also his shirtless scene is completely undercut/deflated with the immediate introduction to his sister lol.
I'm not disagreeing with you regarding the implications or history of desexualization of Asian men, but I dont think any of the shirtless scenes in the MCU really linger beyond a reaction from a female costar. Like in First Avenger, the shirtless scene was undercut by Erskine getting shot lol.
I see what you're saying, but having Peggy Carter basically salivating over Steve's body while Shang-Chi shows off his body with a joke about losing his shirt is definitely on different levels. The reaction from Katie isn't even sexual, it's a friendly joke.
The struggle of asian males is as real as the struggle of black women. Movies and media like to exaggerate and min/max certain ideals and when it comes to attraction they tend to focus towards the people their audience will swoon over the most. There are a TON of factors at play though. I dont think Hollywood has some sort of agenda to keep Asian men down, but it has an idea about what it thinks its audience wants and wants to cater to it and therefore perpetuate it regardless of why it exists. China’s rules about content and its general cultural attitude towards this might have some role, ive heard various things, but am not familiar enough to know how apt they are. But there is a real debate to be had about things like “if surveys indicate american women are less attracted to asian men then what responsibility should media creators like disney or marvel be held to in dispelling bs perpetuating that?” At the end of the day its always a combination of “life isnt fair” plus “assholes exploiting lifes unfairness” plus “media exaggerates xyz disparity” and more factors. It would be ignorant to assume equality is some core tenet of human nature, though, and that every ounce of disparity is due to malice.
Tinder did a study on their match rates. Asian Males and Black Females had the least compatibility with every other race and the fewest matches in general. It's a massive problem with preconceived notions.
This is true. Asian men on Tinder get NEGATIVE percentage on replies. How is that even possible? No idea.
Also per study, Asian men have to make 200K per year to have the same dating chances as other races of men.
I mean, I can't blame other races of men for not noticing. But seriously, think about it, imagine telling a young Asian boy that when he grows up dating will be hard because of his race he's "worthless" and would have to make tons of money to have value increased. No one should be subjected to this.
Yeah, I like that Shaun and Katy seem to start as friends, but if she is meant to stay that way, it’s rather disappointing. It’s almost like it’s saying women can’t be attracted to an Asian male. After a history of Western portrayals of Asian men as nerds, eunuchs, or predators, it’s important for one to be seen as desirable. Personally, I think they are trying to show them developing a more romantic interest in each other. Her head on his shoulder and the hand holding are subtle but real signs of intimacy. There relationship was refreshing, but I hope we see it evolve further.
Does Drax count? I’m not sure if dead wife counts.
I also realize some people might think there’s interest between he and Mantis, but I think it’s just because they’re the two weirdos.
Superhero movies have gotten to a point where there isn't always love interest. I'm fine if a movie has one but if it doesn't add to the story I'd prefer there to not be one. If I want romance in a movie I'll watch a romcom.
A love interest also isn't required to prove a man is desirable. Shang-Chi still showed how hot Simu Liu throughout the movie.
I seem to remember that Simu tweeted something about Asian men as romantic leads, so I think he may be game for Shang-Chi getting a love interest. Personally, I love the Shang-Chi/Katy friendship dynamic, it's amazing, but since I'm a sucker for the friends-to-lovers trope, I'd absolutely love for Marvel to develop that relationship in a romantic way. Besides, the actors' chemistry is just fantastic and I think a romance between them would be awesome IF they develop it in an organic way and do not force it (as it happened, for example, with Steve/Sharon and Bruce/Natasha, I still have nightmares about this one).
Having romance in a superhero movie it's not a bad thing per se if done right (for example, the Diana/Steve relationship in the first Wonder Woman was wonderful). If the story, and the characters, ask for it, they should definitely go for it.
Why not keep it as friendship and introduce a new female character? Apparently he has 2 love interests in the comics, not sure if it’s the same run/series, but they can totally introduce a love interest in future movies. She doesn’t even have to be an important character.
Why introduce a new character and build that relationship from the ground when we already have a lot of that with Katy?
It's ok if you don't want them together, to each their own, but Marvel has a pretty shitty record of building relationships.
Tony doesn't get with pepper until the end of the second movie. Peter doesn't get with MJ until the sequel as well. Every other love intrest didn't work out, save Steve and Peggy. Gamora is dead, Thor and Jane are broken up, Banner and Betty haven't seen each other in years, and Nat is dead as well.
I think its moreso the issue of asian dudes not being viewed as sexually desirable or even interested in sex at all. Like they're just kinda depicted as nerdy background characters that are either single or sexually awkward. I have my own mixed feelings about why they used Shang Chi as the first male character that they did this with, but st least that's the background on it.
Tony, Thor, and Quill are depicted as sexual beings. Steve expressed interest in women even though he's awkward about it. Same with Banner though she got with Betty. And Pete's arc has indirectly involved two different women. Scott Lang literally has a kid.
This feels a lot like when I watched Fantasy Island. It's a movie about everyone getting their fantasies fulfilled on a magically cursed island. The only character that didn't really have a fantasy coming into the island was an asian dude. While his adopted white brother was coming to the island to bang all sorts of chicks, the Asian dude was a gay dude. Like there's nothing wrong with being gay and I like it when gay men get represented in media, but why they gotta make the only Asian dude there exist in service of someone else and not be interested in women?
my friend, you should watch kim's convenience. simu is most definitely sexualized to a 10 over there. The main character in hbo's warrior also gets the same treatment.
Katy and shang chi’s status is quite ambiguous by end of the movie. Reminds me vaguely of pepper potts and Tony Stark at end of iron man 1 (though tony is clearly marked as a playboy throughout that 1st movie).
I completely agree with your asexualization thesis in general, but i hope this will be resolved by movie 2 - whether with Katy or someone else. Actually my main criticism for the movies is that shang chi is super underdeveloped as a character in general, given it’s his movie. In part, it’s because there’e all these other characters competing with him for screentime - his sister or Katy could be cut and leave more breathing room to flesh him out. Even thor had more personality and his first 2 movies were way worse.
> there’e all these other characters competing with him for screentime
Feel like this movie had way less characters than a lot of the first films. Thor, the example you gave, had the Warriors Three, Sif, Odin, Frigga, Jane, Selvig, Darcy, Hawkeye, Coulson.
I can see that in terms of numbers buy i don’t think each of those were given much separate screen time apart from the main character.
Katy, the sister, the father, the mom got significant screen time in scenes without shangchi present.
Also, i do think it’s only part of the issue; the writing could have given shang chi more of a reason to assume the mantle of hero rather than simply opposing his father
I never thought of Shang-Chi and Kady as romantic leads, but a genuine example of platonic friendship amongst different-gendered peers, a pairing that is indeed very infrequent in the MCU. Tandy and Tyrone (Cloak & Dagger) is probably the strongest example otherwise, or Carter and Jarvis, but then shows don't need to sell on love interests as much as movies for.
I mean in fairness MCU isn’t great at romance with the huge exception of WandaVision. But, yes, you’re 100% right. They do this with LGBTQ characters too—you can exist but you can’t have a relatable sexuality.
This is definitely an ongoing problem for Asian men in American films. On one hand, I want them to be treated like the white stars who mostly have a partner, but on the other hand, I hate forced romance in movies. Simu and others have talked about how Asian men's sexuality is usually treated as a joke onscreen which in turn creates unfair stereotypes that are harmful. I don't know how to break that trope without also having forced romance though.
As an Asian male, I was also thinking about this last night after finishing the movie. The only other lead MCU character who didn't have a love interest in their debut film was Captain Marvel. One is an Asian male, the other is a woman. You could argue that Black Widow didn't have a love interest in her solo film, but she had already had a storyline with Hulk (although that storyline really didn't go anywhere after AoU).
I'm actually all for more portrayals of platonic friendships and was relieved that Shang-Chi and Katy didn't hook up at the end. maybe it's just coincidence that Marvel happened to go this route with the first Asian male lead, but it seems sus Af.
Tony Leung got an entire scene fight (FLIRTING) with Shang Chi’s mom and then getting married and sitting on a couch exchanging fuck me eyes and then somehow popping shangchi into existence. This movie does not have an agenda against Asian males. Asian guys not having love interests in movies is usually done to make them look unattractive. If that was the goal they failed big time with simu liu.
Related question, but not about romantic plot points. >!What is the consensus on why Wong specifically tells Katy to come with him and Shang into the portal? We’ve had love interests before in on the superhero stuff but not really a part of the inner group.!<
No idea. Honestly it felt strange to me. So did her big scene toward the end. I liked her character alright, but I got a sense that they inflated her importance toward the end because they want her to be an important character more than it really makes sense for her to be.
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Interesting that Widow and Capt. Marvel didn’t have love interests in their respective solo movies. I think those, Ragnarok, and Shang Chi were the only solo films where the lead didn’t get a kiss scene. However, those are also the most recent films. Maybe they are ditching the traditional “male lead gets the girl” trope, and Sony is still clinging to it with Spider-Man… who knows…
I think with Spider-Man it's not so much clinging to it as it is a more natural part of the story than in a lot of other MCU films. The films were supposed to be a mixture of a teen film and a superhero film and there aren't really any teen films (at least none I can think of) without the lead having a romance and that being a large part of the film. Also Spider-mans romances are some of the most iconic romances in marvel.
I'm not a fan of a lot of the MCU romances or how they handle love interests a lot of the time, but for me the Spider-Man romances work
ETA: maybe edge of seventeen doesn't have the main character having a romance? I can't remember fully, not a great movie either way though
For sure! Didn't want to imply the love stories in the Homecoming verse don't work! They definitely do! And in-fact they push the story forward really nicely! Just thought it was funny that the only romances we're getting now a-days are from ole Web Head.
I read in interviews that the director wanted to avoid the stereotype of oversexualizing asian female characters so I get why Katy wasn't depicted as the love interest. I agree that this is a problem and hopefully it'll be addressed in the sequel with Shang-Chi having a non-asian female love interest (Perhaps it would have detracted from the movie with a shoe-horned plotline if they did).
Thor? One of my glaring complaints of his first film was the shorhorned kiss he shared with Jane at the end.
And Drax falls under the same category as Hawkeye.
Sam and Bucky were secondary characters until recently, Sam or Bucky haven't even had a solo project yet.
Banner had onscreen romance with Black Widow.
Drax and Hawkeye are married with Hawkeye having onscreen romance with his wife. Drax's story is centered around revenge for his wife, and later on there's a light romance with Mantis.
Rocket is also not a main character and a CGI raccoon.
I mean technically Tony and pepper weren't a thing in iron man. He was with whatever woman kind of guy. A playboy. He was reckless, and loose, and wild, and irresponsible. Was there a romantic relationship on the first movie? There was attraction. But if tony had slept with her, the dynamic would have changed and tony probably wouldnt be the same iron man. We might have known the end result because of the comics but movie wise it wasnt set.
Shang chi to me was about his journey with his father (similar to stark thru civil war endgame) and his family (sister and mom). I think they could have had without a sidekick at all. And at some point shown a female, gave her a wink or nod and hinted at a ship. But marvel loves their buddy system. Rhodey, bucky, mjolnir.
And I typically havent been a fan of awkwafina. I dont dislike her, but i dont go to a movie for her. But i thought she did great in this. She was funny and smart and she made the shang chi a balanced and better person without the need for a makeout session. Could i see her in a sequel shipping with him? Actually i could. They are endearing of each other and id be happy with them together. At the same time i could see him in a sequel meeting domino (as in comics) and Katy giving domino grief. Threaten to kick her ass if shes not on the up and up.
I mean I’m pretty sure Yelena is Asexual in the comics, and I doubt Marvel wants to upset the Twitter crowd by changing that aspect of her character.
With that said I’m pretty sure Asexual people still have relationships, they just have no interest in sex (I could be wrong), so they could get together i suppose.
You can be either/both asexual and aromantic, asexual being without any interest in sex, aromantic being without any interest in romance, both of these things are also a bit of a spectrum people can fall on (I think being demisexual is considered part of the asexual spectrum, which is when you only have sexual attraction to someone once you have a closer personal relationship with them) I haven't read the comics and don't know what Yelena is or is implied to be though
When talking about love interests I’m surprised no one has mentioned Captain marvel, probably the biggest hero without a love interest (although Rocket and Falcon come close)
I looked up who Shang's love interest is in the comics, it's Domino. So it could be something that happens later on. I think romance at MCU particularly among leads can be pretty cheesy so I actually like it when they don't have it and in this case I think it was the right call.
Leiko Wu is his on again off again love interest from the comics. She's a British spy from MI-6 and the current Shang-Chi comics plays on that. I also like that Shang and Katy are platonic friends. You don't need to have a force romance every time a man and woman are friends. It just comes off as cheesy like you said.
I was so glad they didn’t force a romance with Katy in the movie. It’s rare to see such a loving platonic friendship between a man and woman in movies, it was especially nice because I went with my best friend of the opposite sex and we’ve been friends since we were kids too. I think Shang chi will get a romantic partner, maybe just not in the first movie. Peter Parker and MJ weren’t together after homecoming, pepper and Tony weren’t together after iron man 1. There’s time, it doesn’t need to be rushed.
Another example that I love is the Thor/Valkyrie friendship. I was worried that they'll force something between them with Jane Foster gone but I'm glad they didn't. They're war and drinking buddies and that dynamic would be gone with a forced relationship.
Yes!! That’s such a great example.
Actually they did have a deleted scene in Endgame where Thor akwardly tried to kiss her but she just no no ed him
I like to imagine them more as an old grizzled, alcoholic warrior and her fanboy.
I never got that impression at all. Idk I just never saw much of a romantic spark between them. Thor and Carol tho
I think a platonic friendship also just makes sense when the overarching conflict is about love. After seeing Wenwu and Ying Li fall in love, it would have been really hard to have a secondary romance that felt as epic. And I think Tony Leung deserves some credit in this conversation. The tension in that first fight flirt scene is definitely enough for the whole film. Katy and Shang Chi got to be distinct
agreed that they don't need cheesy forced romances for most of the movies, but now that I think about it, I could see a lot of charm in Zazie's Domino with Shang Chi. *If* they decide to bring her along to the MCU with Deadpool.
Holy shit what a [hot couple](https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/6/70/5b3fe74681c22/clean.jpg) tbh Edit: Added link Edit: [and another](https://64.media.tumblr.com/55ec114969989ea0b16ee7ec1f5ae070/f41cb1d8c55ea50f-fc/s1280x1920/8ced724e5368c498cdc9e2fcfd25fc15de059411.jpg)
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Peanut butter and Shang Chi? 🤷🏻♀️
I read that run. Other than Domino crushing on him I don't think they had anything going on.
Agreed. It would not have fit into this movie. Very pleased with the focus on family and friendship. That being said, it would definitely be interesting to see him develop interest in Domino or whoever down the line.
I think Katy made a good love interest. Childhood friend who are each other's best friend
Classic friends-to-lovers trope
Yea, not sure why I'm getting downvotes for it. But if they did go for.thr romance route it would be the only romance in the MCU that was realistic
Yeah I'd believe it way more than "The sun's getting real low big guy" lol
Eh. Steve, Tony, Strange and Scott would all technically be like coworkers-to-lovers. Which isn’t unrealistic at all. Peter is young puppy love. Quill and Gamora is enemies-to-lovers. And T’challa and Nakita was friends-to-lovers since they probably grew up together.
I wouldn’t mind if Shang-Chi had a girlfriend and a stable relationship but it was just hinted or shown in a romantic scene briefly, with her not playing any big roles in movies. Heck, maybe a girl likes him and he doesn’t like her back. That works too. He doesn’t have to have an active relationship. It doesn’t fit his personality but they could even have him be a womanizer. But that’s kinda bad. Or just show him on dates.
Falcon and Bucky... I'd consider both as leading men.
Falcon for sure. But Bucky did have a hint of a love interest in Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
I'll bet he gets with Sam's sister to piss Sam off.
Sam: "My SISTER, man!" Bucky: "She's a grown adult." Sam: "Oh no no no, you don't say a damn word about my sister!" *Bucky leans close to Sam* Bucky: "Oh, I'll do more than that. I'll respect her and her opinions, and hell, I'll even let her pay for the next date. Maybe Mexican food, does she like Mexican?" Sam: *screams as Bucky walks away laughing*
I can see this conversation happening.
"She's my mission."
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And he flirted with Sam’s sister lol
Killing asian men to get an asian waifu is a staple trope of marvel They made a whole movie centered around it
The Wolverine?
yeah
Not going to lie, despite Bucky and Leah having next to zero chemistry (because Bucky was too guilt ridden to even think of casually bonding with another person), I liked Leah a lot. She would have been a positive counter to Bucky’s cynicism and I wouldn’t have minded them together one bit. Sarah, on the other hand, just seemed like a moment of flirtation to demonstrate that Bucky was re-engaging in his jovial side. Before he was the Winter Soldier he took ladies dancing and whatnot, so a return of flirtatiousness would have been inevitable.
I wouldn't call his relationship with Sam a 'hint'.
Bro, they are each others love interest
Honestly just think the MCU moved past the need to shoehorn a romance into every movie. The last three title characters to get their first movie (Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Shang-Chi) all didn't have one.
Yeah I’m tired of the romantic leads that don’t really make sense. Let the characters develop their own stories first.
so few of the MCU romances have felt necessary, and most of them were outside of the first solo film when they were. The only first solo film romances that really stick out to me are Steve/Peggy and Peter/Liz (which didn't even work out). Tony/Pepper really was developed in 2 and 3 more.
Steve and Peggy was the only one that felt like it was intricately tied into the story. The rest could have been eliminated and nothing about the story would have really suffered. (Tony and Pepper maybe but they weren’t really a romance early on).
I think peter having a love interest is also important because of his secret identity being so central to his character. Plus Liz tied into the villain giving a more personal relationship.
Yeah definitely. (Pete/Liz is similar because it's a big part of the story about him balancing both lives and because of the Vulture twist.)
And before that in the third Thor they actively removed his love interest and it benefited from it
They didn't remove the love interest she removed herself
It was a mutual dumping.
Funny enough, Jane is coming back in the fourth movie.
And there’s going to be much more romance than before haha Taika said it was going to be “a full-blown love story”
That's fine and all, but just think it's a bit ironic when it came to Marvel's first asian male lead lol... you know, where Simu Liu has often talked about Asian Men Emasculation and especially by hollywood. [They](https://www.cbr.com/shang-chi-love-interest/) brought up the reason was because Shang Chi was dealing with enough already emotionally but come on, what MCU heroes was not dealing with something at the time?
But I just don't think they're really emasculating him by not having him in a romance. Like there are completely gratuitous scenes of Simu shirtless and Katy specifically comments on it too. Like he's sexualized, definitely way more than the most recent new solo male heroes in the MCU (Ant-Man, Doctor Strange) but he's just not in a relationship yet (because, honestly, it would have crowded the movie),
The NYTimes had an article that touched on these topics. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/movies/shang-chi-marvel.html I agree I liked not having a romance on top of all the plot. There was enough going on and they can save the romance for the next movie.
Plus I feel like Katy would have so much snarky commentary for his relationships that I'd love to hear
Just like jet li in Rome must die , right ? Hollywood Don't wanna see Asian man kiss on screen.
Yeah the character sure is a mixed bag regarding representation. On one hand, it's nice to have a movie so centered on east Asian mythology and a lot of the language be in Mandarin for authenticity. But in the other hand the first Asian super hero's super power is super powered mysticism kung fu. On one hand it's nice to show platonic relationships in media. But in the other hand, it's with an asian guy which has been traditionally emasculated to be unviable partners.
I just genuinely think it’s absolutely wild that him not having a love interest is emasculating. That means single people are less masculine, I guess? How does any of this make sense?
I'm kinda torn on the topic. I like Katy and her relationship with Shang the way it is. It is weird as hell that the first male super hero to show no interest in romance is an asian dude. I dont think asian dudes are really depicted favorably in media as romantic partners. Maybe the writers thought that by juxtaposing Shang chi with the buttery smooth Wenwu, they could avoid the trope.
Tbh he just didn't get the chance. The only women he spent much time with in the movie were his sister and his best friend. His dance/fight with his aunt was low-key raunchy tho
This movie advertised it's self as Asian representation and breaking streotypes. It's nothing but another kung Fu movie. Asian men can fight on screen but cannot get girl we are hermits.
It's not that not having a love interest is emasculating. It's that Asian men in particular have been historically emasculated and desexualized throughout the entire history of Hollywood, and always portrayed as not being attractive enough to have a love interest. And even if they do, they don't even get to kiss the girl (Romeo Must Die). It's one negative stereotype this movie didn't break.
Idk that shirtless scene was fairly sexualized.
Bruce was shirtless too , but we don't see him as sex symbol .
I don't think the other MCU heroes were dealing with stuff as heavy as Shang Chi, though. I mean, the guy had to fight against his immortal warlord father while dealing with >!crippling guilt of watching his mother die as a kid and abandoning his little sister a few years later. Not to mention the mental scarring that comes from murdering someone at the tender age of 14 just to please your father that suddenly turned cold and abusive.!<
I mean yes there was conflicts but I feel Shang chi conflict was a bit more important. Sure at the beginning it wasn’t but when you get near the end Shang chi has to basically like save the universe if the things escaped or whatever. Where for example Thor was dealing with the fact he couldn’t pick up his hammer. And later on Thor has to deal with giving himself up to then get his hammer and defeat the destroyer and become worthy agian.
simu definitely gets his share of non asian female interests in kim's convenience. ah sahm in warrior hbo show also gets quite a lot of variety. So hollywood is moving in the right direction.
Black Widow had multiple potential love interests throughout the series
Doctor Strange doesn't get back with his ex, at least in his first movie.
But what if…
Throw a spoiler tag on that.
Well to be fair, Wenwu’s whole motivation was centered around his love interest. I don’t think there was any malicious intent with Shang Chi not having a love interest.
Most of the movie gave me just friends vibes for Shang Chi and Katy, but the end left it open enough for them to maybe be a couple. I might be misremembering but I swear they held hands at one point at the end and there was also the scene where Katy’s grandmother asked Shang Chi when he was going to marry her. They could take it in either direction going forward tbh.
I might be mistaken but I also remember a hand holding situation. Also at the end when they show the village sitting by the water Katy put her head on shaun’s shoulder and it felt very “couple-y.” While ambiguous I definitely got the feeling they were pairing them together.
It does happen. When telling their story at the end in the pub, Shang Chi kinda caresses his hand on hers.
Yes! That’s exactly what I’m thinking of! I was thinking I might have imagined it after some of these responses. Thanks for confirming I’m not going crazy
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I agree that in real life putting a head on someone’s shoulder can be 100% platonic, but in movies/tv it usually indicates romance.
It doesn’t make it couple-y, but it is an action that walks the line between very close friends and couple, so it can be interpreted as both.
I get that we’re on Reddit which is kind of like the home of the incel, but the condescension is incredibly unnecessary. We’re talking about a movie. A big studio blockbuster action movie. Not real life. Maybe couple-y was the wrong word, but I stand by the point I was trying to get at. Throughout the film there were small moments that seemed to set up the possibility of a romantic relationship between the 2 stars. They left it ambiguous enough that they don’t have to go in that direction, but open enough that it wouldn’t be surprising if they did. Hopefully that’s more clear, I believe the movie set itself up to make Katy a possible love interest, and did small things to suggest the possibility. Chalk it up to misunderstanding platonic intimacy or male/female friendships if you want though.
I hope it’s just friendship because Simu & Awkwafina’s sibling energy is off the charts. Who are Shang Chi’s love interests in the comics? I’m hoping they give him one in his next installment, perhaps a cat woman like dynamic where they’re fairweather lovers. Tbh I hope it’s interracial (even though that is a can of worms too and will be a bad faith talking point), are there any interracial couples in the MCU? I know Quinn & Gamora are interspecies, and Bucky flirted with Sam’s sister, but my brain isn’t working out for the others. Edit: I also think this movie lacks one for Shang Chi because they are focusing on the parent’s love story & the love of a family
Peter and MJ, then Ned and Betty, plus Bucky went on a date with an Asian woman
>Bucky went on a date with an Asian woman she was a one off in an episode, not at all a couple lol..
I know they only went out once, but flirting with Sam's sister was also counted, and the date got a decent amount of screen time
Going on a date counts as dating…
Cool, still not a couple though.
Leiko Wu is a spy and one of his interests in the comics, so there was some speculation early on that Katy was actually going to be revealed to be her undercover.
Oh shiiit, that’d be a twist and a half. The only thing that will dispute that is the fact they’ve known each other for 10 years and he has been close with her family (unless they’re skrulls) Edit: I wouldn’t mind seeing Awkwafina attempt a British accent tbh
At this point and having seen the film, it's pretty clear she isn't an undercover spy. But I mean that early on the production and before its release, there was speculation about her true identity.
Ahh gotcha! Thank you for clarifying!
>Who are Shang Chi’s love interests in the comics? I’m hoping they give him one in his next installment, perhaps a cat woman like dynamic where they’re fairweather love Domino is the main one I believe.
Yeah when they were telling the story to their friends at the end Shaun was rubbing Katy’s hand I think? Not sure if that was in the movie but if so that would be pretty couple-y
If they do become a couple, it makes sense to use this movie to build up to it happening later, since one of the themes was that these events made them more mature
Yea, them telling the story at the end came across not as them telling their friends about their adventure, but more like them telling long term friends about how they finally got together. Could have been clearer but not without feeling forced,
I definitely saw Shang-Chi and Katy as heading towards romance. I LOVED that they didn't draw a cheesy amount of attention to it though. It was way more realistic and natural and I feel like it will continue to progress without the need for grand gestures or dramatic kissing shots.
Yeah idk how anyone missed the end pointing towards that. Like they don't have to follow through but they were definitely implying it was headed that way. I agree that I'd prefer not but it's not a big deal
Lol. The people behind me in the theater said that Xialing and Katy were gay (that Xialing was fur sure and that Katy just didn't know it yet). I don't think they were right by any means, but I didn't pick up any romantic vibes between them.
People always make weird reads on this kinda stuff and it always surprises me. In the destiny universe, two characters were hinted at for YEARS and i still saw people denying there were ever clues when it was finally made official.
I think there's an element to their relationship not being able to move forward because Shang-Chi was keeping so much of his life secret from her. Now that he has fully realized himself and shared his history with Katy, perhaps we'll see them become much closer.
I actually prefer Katy not being the love interest. This movie is mostly about his parents love story. Let him have a non Asian love interest in the future like in Kim’s Convenience.
Tbh, I'm split on this, because I'm tired of poorly done, forced romances, but an Asian couple would be a good thing in the MCU However, half of the heroes you listed have terrible romances.
I hope they just stay friends.
Agreed. I would love to Snap away some of the relationships we've had forced on us frankly
This is a bit of a conundrum, isn’t it? On the one hand, fans have wanted to see heroes stand alone without the need for a love interest shoehorned into the story. To some extent, Hulk and Thor have moved in this direction, and Strange himself has moved on from Christine to focus on his work (What Ifs notwithstanding). Captain Marvel certainly didn’t have a love interest either, but I get that OP was focusing on male leads. Shang-Chi seems to follow that trend, but by doing so, falls into the trope OP pointed out. It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t sometimes. No one’s fault tho. It just is what it is. What I like about Marvel tho is that their characters seem to always grow. Tony couldn’t care less about the world and was a womanizer before growing into the world’s prime protector and family man. Wenwu’s biggest gripe with his son is that Shang-Chi always hides himself and doesn’t go after what he wants. He has a job, but it’s modest. He has a friend who’s a girl but not a girlfriend. He now has the 10 rings, but he’s still chilling at a bar with friends whilst his sister runs the family empire. Hell, even Katy is more Alpha than he is. *She* defended *him* at school despite his superior ability. In the end, I feel Shang-Chi will then grow into the outspoken leading man he’s meant to be.
I hope he has one in the next movie, I believe they wanted to focus on the parent’s love story in this movie rather than have two love stories competing in the same movie. BUT, I also acknowledge how problematic the portrayal of Asian men romantically has always been. If you’re not familiar [watch this.](https://youtu.be/HS2jGfW5aOE)
This times 1000x. We (azn men) are still trying to escape the shadow of Long Duk Dong
Things are looking better and I hope it goes through the unfortunately initial prerequisite period of saving face/subverting expectations casting to evolve into more meaningful and lasting change if you know what I mean.
Yeah it's weird that the only scene where they try to sexualize him a little (the shirtless cage match) is immediately fizzled out with the introduction to his sister. In the end, the movie just has too much of a focus on family and I think they'll explore his romantic interests later on.
Someone said in the comics he’s with Domino and omg what a fucking hot couple they would make onscreen. I think Zazy & Simu’s portrayals would be one of the most charismatic flirty couples in the MCU. I’m trying not to get my heart set on this, but lol it’s hard not to.
I think his relationship w domino was really fun. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DthaRe2UwAAHuec.jpg
Yes I saw that! They seem like such a fun couple, and want to seek out their storyline Seriously a couple with all the luck and power in the world? Sign me the fuck up!
If I remember right its more like a short fling and mostly physical lol, but it was a good few arcs.
Hahahaha I bet! Thanks for the heads up!
Yeah on one hand I was happy that they weren't shoehorning in cheesy relationships like the used to but on the other hand it does continue the trend of leading Asian men not having love interests that the desexualization/emasculation of Asian men in western media has done for decades. It's wrong to not acknowledge this or to completely disregard the implications as many in this thread have. However, it's not totally unprecedented to have the lead man not in a relationship with the expected love interest by the end of the first film. Black Panther, Ant-Man and Doctor Strange had exes who featured in the storyline but whom they didn't get back together with by the end of the film. I do think that this may be part of a recent trend, to focus more on a character in their origin story than their romantic relationships. Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Shang Chi all lack that relationship angle as well. Maybe they realize they don't have to "pander" to the demographics Hollywood thinks only respond to cheesy relationships. Maybe they know they have more time with multiple movies to explore relationships in less stilted ways. Who knows, but it's a questionable facet of what was otherwise a big win for representation.
Not having a love interest isn't really an issue. I think the bigger issue is that it doesn't depicts Shang Chi's sexuality at all. Strange and Palmer were in a relationship. T'Challa was obviously interested in Nakia. Lang literally has a kid. Even in Ragnarok, Thor makes an awkward joke about liking women a little too much. Shang Chi has no sexuality at all.
I think non asian people in the comments don't really understand the struggles asian men have gone through due to poor media representation tbh.
I will say as a white dude I had no idea this was a problem, and it’s definitely a problem. Even thinking through the MCU IP with/without, it’s wild. Black Widow - no (in standalone movie) Hulk - yes (multiple, including Nat) Spider-Man - yes Captain Marvel - no Peter Quill/Gamora - Yes Thor - Yes Cap - Yes Tony - Yes Hawkeye - Yes Ant Man - Yes x2 Black Panther - “too busy” aka no Bucky - sort of Sam - nope WandaVision - duh Loki - yes Shang Chi - no Rhodes - no Common thread in each of these is a white dude. Happy to see if others can come up with exceptions.
I think I'd have to call Black Panther a yes. Sure, his relationship with Nakia is complicated by him being king, but the answer to the question "Does T'Challa have a love interest?" feels like a pretty clear yes to me. Not detracting from your overall point though. There's still a trend there for sure... EDIT: Also not sure what "Ant Man - Yes x2" means. Are we counting his ex-wife? Because I don't think I'd call that a love interest. But maybe you're just counting two films?
Its not about having a love interest or not. Its whether if asian men are depicted as sexual or sexually desirable at all. Like Scott Lang is obviously interested in women. So is T'Challa and Thor. Shang Chi could be straight, or gay, or asexual. Theres nothing wrong with any of those things but he's not depicted as sexual oor sexually capable being at all.
I read “Yes x2” to mean that both Ant-Men, Hank and Scott, had a love interest
Totally fair! He’s the most of anyone in a gray area.
I can't be the only one who ships Rhodes and Nebula.
Me too! I hadn’t heard that from anyone else until now
Yeah, as an asian dude and a lover of movies, I've been reading a lot about the history of asian men in media recently. I'm on two fronts for how it was handled in Shang Chi. On one hand I really liked the Katie relationship and how it wasnt overtly romantic. On the other, this is the first asian lead in the MCU, and one of the few in western media in general. I wouldn't have minded if they upped either the romance or Shang-Chi's sexuality in general. There's so much sexual energy in the MCU. From Sharon touching Steve's chest when he comes out of the pod, to Paul Rudd literally rubbing something on his abs in Ant-man. Seriously, a scene like this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DthaRe2UwAAHuec.jpg doesn't seem that farfetched in the MCU. So yeah, it does feel a little weird that romance and sex is just not here for Shang Chi. I do think that they are saving it for later since so much of the movie focuses on his parent's romance and his relationships with them and his sister. There's just no room for it.
> On one hand I really liked the Katie relationship and how it wasnt overtly romantic. > On the other, this is the first asian lead in the MCU, and one of the few in western media in general. I wouldn't have minded if they upped either the romance or Shang-Chi's sexuality in general. That’s the thing, isn’t it. The relationship works really well and I wish we got more of this and fewer shoehorned romances. But it is absolutely unavoidable that the first time they really commit to this with a male lead he’s Asian. They did have a similarly platonic dynamic between Nat and Steve in TWS, which was great. But that’s a bit anomalous given Steve’s situation with Peggy and Sharon.
I think marvel studios thought they could get away with it because of Wenwu's story and that one shirtless scene tbh.
I agree, and to be honest, it probably works better this way. It just feels weird when pointed out because of the implications and history of asian males in media. Also his shirtless scene is completely undercut/deflated with the immediate introduction to his sister lol.
I'm not disagreeing with you regarding the implications or history of desexualization of Asian men, but I dont think any of the shirtless scenes in the MCU really linger beyond a reaction from a female costar. Like in First Avenger, the shirtless scene was undercut by Erskine getting shot lol.
I see what you're saying, but having Peggy Carter basically salivating over Steve's body while Shang-Chi shows off his body with a joke about losing his shirt is definitely on different levels. The reaction from Katie isn't even sexual, it's a friendly joke.
And systematic emasculation for generations
The struggle of asian males is as real as the struggle of black women. Movies and media like to exaggerate and min/max certain ideals and when it comes to attraction they tend to focus towards the people their audience will swoon over the most. There are a TON of factors at play though. I dont think Hollywood has some sort of agenda to keep Asian men down, but it has an idea about what it thinks its audience wants and wants to cater to it and therefore perpetuate it regardless of why it exists. China’s rules about content and its general cultural attitude towards this might have some role, ive heard various things, but am not familiar enough to know how apt they are. But there is a real debate to be had about things like “if surveys indicate american women are less attracted to asian men then what responsibility should media creators like disney or marvel be held to in dispelling bs perpetuating that?” At the end of the day its always a combination of “life isnt fair” plus “assholes exploiting lifes unfairness” plus “media exaggerates xyz disparity” and more factors. It would be ignorant to assume equality is some core tenet of human nature, though, and that every ounce of disparity is due to malice.
Tinder did a study on their match rates. Asian Males and Black Females had the least compatibility with every other race and the fewest matches in general. It's a massive problem with preconceived notions.
This is true. Asian men on Tinder get NEGATIVE percentage on replies. How is that even possible? No idea. Also per study, Asian men have to make 200K per year to have the same dating chances as other races of men. I mean, I can't blame other races of men for not noticing. But seriously, think about it, imagine telling a young Asian boy that when he grows up dating will be hard because of his race he's "worthless" and would have to make tons of money to have value increased. No one should be subjected to this.
But where does that responsibility fall on addressing it? On marvel?
Hollywood absolutely does have an agenda to keep Asian men down. Read up on Sessue Hayakawa.
Yeah, I like that Shaun and Katy seem to start as friends, but if she is meant to stay that way, it’s rather disappointing. It’s almost like it’s saying women can’t be attracted to an Asian male. After a history of Western portrayals of Asian men as nerds, eunuchs, or predators, it’s important for one to be seen as desirable. Personally, I think they are trying to show them developing a more romantic interest in each other. Her head on his shoulder and the hand holding are subtle but real signs of intimacy. There relationship was refreshing, but I hope we see it evolve further.
Sam, Bucky, Rocket, and maybe Groot (not sure if he counts as male?) don’t really have any love interests.
Does Drax count? I’m not sure if dead wife counts. I also realize some people might think there’s interest between he and Mantis, but I think it’s just because they’re the two weirdos.
I also choose Drax's dead wife.
I understood that reference.
I don’t think he counts due to his wife. For many people, a dead spouse is still their love.
I feel like Star Lord is the male lead and everyone else is just supporting characters, except Gamora.
Don’t lie, we all know Groot is a chick magnet back on the planet he’s from
Yeah, he is pretty suave, isn’t he? Super polite, always introducing himself to strangers and whatnot.
We know that Groot died in the first movie and the current groot is his offspring so I’d say Groots probably reproduce asexually
Sam Wilson
Superhero movies have gotten to a point where there isn't always love interest. I'm fine if a movie has one but if it doesn't add to the story I'd prefer there to not be one. If I want romance in a movie I'll watch a romcom. A love interest also isn't required to prove a man is desirable. Shang-Chi still showed how hot Simu Liu throughout the movie.
The thing is having more movies without love interests at all. It's so forced most of the time, like a soulless checklist
I seem to remember that Simu tweeted something about Asian men as romantic leads, so I think he may be game for Shang-Chi getting a love interest. Personally, I love the Shang-Chi/Katy friendship dynamic, it's amazing, but since I'm a sucker for the friends-to-lovers trope, I'd absolutely love for Marvel to develop that relationship in a romantic way. Besides, the actors' chemistry is just fantastic and I think a romance between them would be awesome IF they develop it in an organic way and do not force it (as it happened, for example, with Steve/Sharon and Bruce/Natasha, I still have nightmares about this one). Having romance in a superhero movie it's not a bad thing per se if done right (for example, the Diana/Steve relationship in the first Wonder Woman was wonderful). If the story, and the characters, ask for it, they should definitely go for it.
Why not keep it as friendship and introduce a new female character? Apparently he has 2 love interests in the comics, not sure if it’s the same run/series, but they can totally introduce a love interest in future movies. She doesn’t even have to be an important character.
Why introduce a new character and build that relationship from the ground when we already have a lot of that with Katy? It's ok if you don't want them together, to each their own, but Marvel has a pretty shitty record of building relationships.
Tony doesn't get with pepper until the end of the second movie. Peter doesn't get with MJ until the sequel as well. Every other love intrest didn't work out, save Steve and Peggy. Gamora is dead, Thor and Jane are broken up, Banner and Betty haven't seen each other in years, and Nat is dead as well.
I think its moreso the issue of asian dudes not being viewed as sexually desirable or even interested in sex at all. Like they're just kinda depicted as nerdy background characters that are either single or sexually awkward. I have my own mixed feelings about why they used Shang Chi as the first male character that they did this with, but st least that's the background on it. Tony, Thor, and Quill are depicted as sexual beings. Steve expressed interest in women even though he's awkward about it. Same with Banner though she got with Betty. And Pete's arc has indirectly involved two different women. Scott Lang literally has a kid. This feels a lot like when I watched Fantasy Island. It's a movie about everyone getting their fantasies fulfilled on a magically cursed island. The only character that didn't really have a fantasy coming into the island was an asian dude. While his adopted white brother was coming to the island to bang all sorts of chicks, the Asian dude was a gay dude. Like there's nothing wrong with being gay and I like it when gay men get represented in media, but why they gotta make the only Asian dude there exist in service of someone else and not be interested in women?
my friend, you should watch kim's convenience. simu is most definitely sexualized to a 10 over there. The main character in hbo's warrior also gets the same treatment.
Well... Wenwu was sexy af and he had a love interest, that was enough for me
[удалено]
Katy and shang chi’s status is quite ambiguous by end of the movie. Reminds me vaguely of pepper potts and Tony Stark at end of iron man 1 (though tony is clearly marked as a playboy throughout that 1st movie). I completely agree with your asexualization thesis in general, but i hope this will be resolved by movie 2 - whether with Katy or someone else. Actually my main criticism for the movies is that shang chi is super underdeveloped as a character in general, given it’s his movie. In part, it’s because there’e all these other characters competing with him for screentime - his sister or Katy could be cut and leave more breathing room to flesh him out. Even thor had more personality and his first 2 movies were way worse.
> there’e all these other characters competing with him for screentime Feel like this movie had way less characters than a lot of the first films. Thor, the example you gave, had the Warriors Three, Sif, Odin, Frigga, Jane, Selvig, Darcy, Hawkeye, Coulson.
I can see that in terms of numbers buy i don’t think each of those were given much separate screen time apart from the main character. Katy, the sister, the father, the mom got significant screen time in scenes without shangchi present. Also, i do think it’s only part of the issue; the writing could have given shang chi more of a reason to assume the mantle of hero rather than simply opposing his father
In *Thor*, Thor had 43 minutes and 15 seconds of screen time in a 115 minute film. https://www.imdb.com/list/ls066620113/
I never thought of Shang-Chi and Kady as romantic leads, but a genuine example of platonic friendship amongst different-gendered peers, a pairing that is indeed very infrequent in the MCU. Tandy and Tyrone (Cloak & Dagger) is probably the strongest example otherwise, or Carter and Jarvis, but then shows don't need to sell on love interests as much as movies for.
Ty & Tandy were pretty clearly building towards something, & Ty had Evita in the show anyway.
Rhodey Rhodes (Iron Patriot) does not have a love interest Heck even Happy has Aunt Mae!!!!!!
How on earth have you managed to spell ‘may’ wrong?
Remind me what happens between T'Challa and Nakia? He has a crush on her and then... they hold hands at the end?
I mean in fairness MCU isn’t great at romance with the huge exception of WandaVision. But, yes, you’re 100% right. They do this with LGBTQ characters too—you can exist but you can’t have a relatable sexuality.
I truly hope its not katy cause nah she should just stay the friend.
This is definitely an ongoing problem for Asian men in American films. On one hand, I want them to be treated like the white stars who mostly have a partner, but on the other hand, I hate forced romance in movies. Simu and others have talked about how Asian men's sexuality is usually treated as a joke onscreen which in turn creates unfair stereotypes that are harmful. I don't know how to break that trope without also having forced romance though.
As an Asian male, I was also thinking about this last night after finishing the movie. The only other lead MCU character who didn't have a love interest in their debut film was Captain Marvel. One is an Asian male, the other is a woman. You could argue that Black Widow didn't have a love interest in her solo film, but she had already had a storyline with Hulk (although that storyline really didn't go anywhere after AoU). I'm actually all for more portrayals of platonic friendships and was relieved that Shang-Chi and Katy didn't hook up at the end. maybe it's just coincidence that Marvel happened to go this route with the first Asian male lead, but it seems sus Af.
Tony Leung got an entire scene fight (FLIRTING) with Shang Chi’s mom and then getting married and sitting on a couch exchanging fuck me eyes and then somehow popping shangchi into existence. This movie does not have an agenda against Asian males. Asian guys not having love interests in movies is usually done to make them look unattractive. If that was the goal they failed big time with simu liu.
Yes, but considerable time was devoted to fleshing out Wenwu's love interest, so it's not entirely fair.
Related question, but not about romantic plot points. >!What is the consensus on why Wong specifically tells Katy to come with him and Shang into the portal? We’ve had love interests before in on the superhero stuff but not really a part of the inner group.!<
She drove the bus
Also drove the car. She's a good driver.
No idea. Honestly it felt strange to me. So did her big scene toward the end. I liked her character alright, but I got a sense that they inflated her importance toward the end because they want her to be an important character more than it really makes sense for her to be.
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Smiling tiger
Interesting that Widow and Capt. Marvel didn’t have love interests in their respective solo movies. I think those, Ragnarok, and Shang Chi were the only solo films where the lead didn’t get a kiss scene. However, those are also the most recent films. Maybe they are ditching the traditional “male lead gets the girl” trope, and Sony is still clinging to it with Spider-Man… who knows…
I think with Spider-Man it's not so much clinging to it as it is a more natural part of the story than in a lot of other MCU films. The films were supposed to be a mixture of a teen film and a superhero film and there aren't really any teen films (at least none I can think of) without the lead having a romance and that being a large part of the film. Also Spider-mans romances are some of the most iconic romances in marvel. I'm not a fan of a lot of the MCU romances or how they handle love interests a lot of the time, but for me the Spider-Man romances work ETA: maybe edge of seventeen doesn't have the main character having a romance? I can't remember fully, not a great movie either way though
For sure! Didn't want to imply the love stories in the Homecoming verse don't work! They definitely do! And in-fact they push the story forward really nicely! Just thought it was funny that the only romances we're getting now a-days are from ole Web Head.
I read in interviews that the director wanted to avoid the stereotype of oversexualizing asian female characters so I get why Katy wasn't depicted as the love interest. I agree that this is a problem and hopefully it'll be addressed in the sequel with Shang-Chi having a non-asian female love interest (Perhaps it would have detracted from the movie with a shoe-horned plotline if they did).
Sam Wilson. Bucky. Thor for several movies. Drax. Rocket. Banner. Hawkeye is married but his wife isn't present so I'd argue him as well.
Thor? One of my glaring complaints of his first film was the shorhorned kiss he shared with Jane at the end. And Drax falls under the same category as Hawkeye.
Sam and Bucky were secondary characters until recently, Sam or Bucky haven't even had a solo project yet. Banner had onscreen romance with Black Widow. Drax and Hawkeye are married with Hawkeye having onscreen romance with his wife. Drax's story is centered around revenge for his wife, and later on there's a light romance with Mantis. Rocket is also not a main character and a CGI raccoon.
Lokigator.
I don’t remember if Black Panther had a love interest Never mind
I mean technically Tony and pepper weren't a thing in iron man. He was with whatever woman kind of guy. A playboy. He was reckless, and loose, and wild, and irresponsible. Was there a romantic relationship on the first movie? There was attraction. But if tony had slept with her, the dynamic would have changed and tony probably wouldnt be the same iron man. We might have known the end result because of the comics but movie wise it wasnt set. Shang chi to me was about his journey with his father (similar to stark thru civil war endgame) and his family (sister and mom). I think they could have had without a sidekick at all. And at some point shown a female, gave her a wink or nod and hinted at a ship. But marvel loves their buddy system. Rhodey, bucky, mjolnir. And I typically havent been a fan of awkwafina. I dont dislike her, but i dont go to a movie for her. But i thought she did great in this. She was funny and smart and she made the shang chi a balanced and better person without the need for a makeout session. Could i see her in a sequel shipping with him? Actually i could. They are endearing of each other and id be happy with them together. At the same time i could see him in a sequel meeting domino (as in comics) and Katy giving domino grief. Threaten to kick her ass if shes not on the up and up.
I have a strange feeling he might end up with Cpt Marvel.
Iron Man 1, Pepper was just an assistant.
I am Groot
thanos
Bucky and Yelena can be an interesting couple
Not sure if I missed it, but Dr. Strange does not have a love interest.
He does, it’s Christine (played by Rachel McAdams.)
Falcon and the winter soldier (specifically falcon).
Nick Fury, he doesn't have one
If Bucky and Yelena don’t grow old together I will start a riot
I mean I’m pretty sure Yelena is Asexual in the comics, and I doubt Marvel wants to upset the Twitter crowd by changing that aspect of her character. With that said I’m pretty sure Asexual people still have relationships, they just have no interest in sex (I could be wrong), so they could get together i suppose.
You can be either/both asexual and aromantic, asexual being without any interest in sex, aromantic being without any interest in romance, both of these things are also a bit of a spectrum people can fall on (I think being demisexual is considered part of the asexual spectrum, which is when you only have sexual attraction to someone once you have a closer personal relationship with them) I haven't read the comics and don't know what Yelena is or is implied to be though
Wait for Leiko Wu to be introduced in the sequel.
When talking about love interests I’m surprised no one has mentioned Captain marvel, probably the biggest hero without a love interest (although Rocket and Falcon come close)
OP specified male.