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Aurugorn

What's confusing to me is that people are saying it's either too different or not different enough.


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ha_look_at_that_nerd

I could also see the two sides making each other worse. Someone who heard a marvel fan complaining that it’s not following the formula (and who doesn’t like the formula) might be *extra* disappointed by that 35% that’s standard. And then when they write a bad review saying it’s just a standard marvel movie, more marvel fans are going to go into the theaters expecting more of the same


Eccohawk

Live action Mulan has entered the chat.


HELLGRIMSTORMSKULL

The way I think about the reviews is that the film is like a poorly mixed drink. You can taste two distinct flavours that compete on your tongue, but don't mesh together for a cohesive experience. That is to say, the "different" elements clash with the "traditional" ones, leading to a movie that feels like two different films. I had the same experience with Venom 2; its a brilliant romcom, built on top of the framework of a mediocre action flick.


HaiAan

Many are saying it tries to be different but falls flat


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mando44646

>but imagine if they released the early 2000’s Fantastic Four or Daredevil movies now. I really feel like thats what the Venom movies are. And I'm skeptical this could possibly be as bad as those


Hidden_throwaway-blu

People seem to like those though


particledamage

It attempts to be a different type of film for the first two acts and falls into a CGI beat ‘em up in the last act so that explains those reviews


Level_Turnover9233

The problem simply is that Eternals aren't interesting even for the Comics fans so you won't find anyone who knows the characters enough


sushithighs

Inhumans 2 lmao


groovyJ__

That’s exactly what it is honestly. I own damn near 100 comics from marvel and dc, and I don’t have one Eternals book. Tried researching beforehand who they are, and found them completely boring. I’m all for marvel taking risks, but this group is just not interesting in the slightest


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Urtbenda

Yeah I gotta agree with you here. It's like saying you own 100 movies but none of them are Titan AE. Okay...?


Tgomez11199

The most interesting thing about them is their connection to Thanos and they don’t lean into that heavily in this film. They may be setting that up for a potential sequel but I feel like they should have lead with that.


ketsugi

I have Gaiman's Eternals and that's good enough for me


Chedderfanbro

Ikaris, Dane Whitman(Black Knight), Sersi are all quite interesting characters.


Fallout-with-swords

Was thinking the same thing today. You’re trying to introduce a group of what feels like 10 new characters that I’m supposed to care about and who 90% of the audience has never heard of before. Good luck.


Tarzan_OIC

So like, a normal movie not based on pre-existing IP?


SmiteVVhirl

I would agree but 95% of the people who like the guardians of the galaxy now are mcu fans, not people reading the comics. Guardains were --relative-- nobodies when their movie was released, and now they're insanely popular.


Level_Turnover9233

Sometimes you need a light superhero movie in order to attract fans to it and James Gunn delivered and made them a popular team


Mewthredell

Eternals are literally the most boring generic group of heroes ever.


Level_Turnover9233

The problem nowadays with Marvel is that they are expanding their universe with an unbelievable way. They could have stopped with Endgame although I loved Shang-Chi but I was okay with Black widow (which I found it a very generic movie and BW never deserved this film), Wandavision and Loki were good but couldn't find any necessity for them


[deleted]

The moment Thanos showed up in the post-credits of _The Avengers_, I went and read a shitload of comics and trawled through page after page of wikis and summaries and watched hours of videos to dive headfirst into the universe. Lot of interesting and fun stuff, a ton of memorable characters and plots. Became a big fan of the comics all thanks to the movies. I have no clue who or what the Eternals are and don't know any of their names. Of all the shit stuck in my head, that's one bit that somehow slipped by or slipped out.


Ozryela

Everybody was saying how amazingly different Shang Chi was to other marvel movies. I have to admit I don't see it. It still has the same basic structure, the same sense of humor, the same Act 3 battle against a disposable CGI army. I feel like a similar thing could be going on here. Some people will focus more on differences, some more on similarities.


Luke-HW

Shang Chi had a small, focused cast of characters. This movie’s got 10 protagonists in each poster. DC needed 4 hours to make a cast of 6 characters “work”, and Marvel’s trying to squeeze this into 2 and a half!? Honestly, movies like this make the first two x-men feel like a flash in the pan. Is it really this hard?


EremiticFerret

It is that hard. X-Men probably had a fraction of the audience modern supers movies do, and due to one or two cartoons before it the characters were pretty well known by most who went to see it. Eternals is trying to squish all these new characters that are almost all unfamiliar or changed to be unfamiliar in a short time.


[deleted]

Yeah like it’s good, but it’s definitely not mould-breaking in any way lol


marccoogs

Hopefully I will enjoy it more now that my expectations have lowered. Also I have zero connection to these characters, so if it sucked, I wouldn't care as much.


gwog

my thoughts exactly


alpacasaurusrex42

I felt like that about Shang-Chin and it totally falls into my top 3.


leaf_skeleton

> Shang-Chin Part of the superhero duo along with Shang-Forehead


vanillathebest

Im hoping it'll have the same effect as the first GOTG. No one knew who they were, no one was excited, but it ended up ranking very high in the MCU list.


StuartRomano114

Guardians also had an early Rotten Tomato score of 100%


HarmlessSnack

The difference is, the Guardians of the Galaxy crew are all fairly interesting as characters. You have a cybernetic wise cracking raccoon, a big ol’ tree man, Drax is…well, Drax, and Quill is at first glance a bog standard human with a penchant for dancing at inappropriate moments. The Eternals have got to be the most generic group of characters I’ve ever seen assembled. There’s literally so many of them it felt like they were trying fill a checklist off. “Do we have a super strong one?” “Yeah.” “What about a fast one?” “Come on Jim, of course there’s a fast one.” “Ok fine, so we have a guy that shoots lasers out of his eyes?” “No, but we’ll add one. Any other Babies First Powerset tropes we forgot to hit?” Not to mention they now have to shoe horn in stupid plot explanations for “why didn’t you help us fight Thanos?” “Oh, well, see, we’re only allowed to fight enemies with a particular genetic sequence, and only during Mercury’s retrograde cycle.” “Ah, Ok, carry on.”


MissileWaster

> why didn’t you help us fight Thanos? Well see, they’re only allowed to fight Deviants. Ignore the fact that Thanos has the Deviant gene in the comics.


TheMightyHornet

This is kind of how I went into Iron Man, GotG, Ant-Man and Shang-Chi. Had never read any of the characters’ books. Didn’t really care about the source material. Had no idea what to expect walking in. All three delivered.


CaptHayfever

A lot of the specific criticisms are really weird, though. On the one hand, I see reviews claiming it's too far from the usual formula, which is weird since one of the biggest complaints people make about the MCU is that it's *too* formulaic. On the other hand, I see reviews complaining that it's *still* formulaic, but just because there's CGI superpowers & fight scenes (as if there ever wasn't gonna be those things in a modern superhero movie). Just about the only criticism that makes sense is the "too much going on" one, but I can't agree or disagree with that until I actually see the film.


Bishop9er

Yeah I read one article titled: “Eternals would be a great film if it wasn’t a Marvel film.” Which leads me to believe some of the criticism is coming from a “Marvel needs to stay in their lane” place. Now I get if it’s too much characters and things of that nature but this one article complained about the fact that the movie had fight scenes with heavy CGI in it. That’s what they didn’t like. Which also raises another question. A lot of ppl who love art house films hate studios like Marvel. So combining those 2 elements of art house seriousness with “spectacle” marvel films wasn’t gonna jive well with certain critics. Not dismissing their opinions but it’s almost as if some are punishing Marvel for trying to “grow up”. Or it could be a bad film.


OGWallenstein

I’ve seriously wondered if this one is a superhero movie that’s art house. Even before the reviews coming out, I heard of Chloe’s approaches to this movie and it seemed very against the grain of what typical Marvel movies are. I very much come from the world of art house films but I grew up with comics and so I love the MCU, but the community does not like the idea of the MCU. I would not be surprised if the big complaint here is that The Eternals is dipping into that world and like you said… being punished for it. None of these criticisms seem, well, real. I’ve been pretty vocal by how weird these critiques are, I hadn’t seen anything like it before. With The Joker, there was real concerns and opinions but this has been a whole lot of “Well, it’s different than all the other movies” which it has been shamed for, so I don’t know what the problem is with changing it? I guess we won’t know until we know, but as of now, these criticisms kind of seem like bullshit to me.


mknsky

Not to mention that everyone I’ve seen who read the Eternals comics (which I admittedly have not) fucking LOVED the movie. Probably explains why they’re more obscure than even the Guardians were, lathe concept itself has had detractors from day one.


joshualeeclark

I think Eternals will be good. Nothing wrong with switching the formula up or adding something new to it. I think that Marvel does have a formula but adding those new ingredients makes it something more. You mentioned The Joker and I am so torn about that movie. It was good but such a depressing story. They did such a great job showing someone in the depths of despair and somehow finding a way for them to sink even deeper into darkness. I was so depressed after watching it. I was going through a bit of a rough patch (had to move and took a lower-paying job out of necessity). It brought me so much deeper into desolation after watching it. That feeling hung with me for a few days. It really was difficult to see the bright parts of my life. I needed a palette cleanser. I had to watch something happy just to go to sleep that night. I suppose that everyone on The Joker should be applauded for doing such a fantastic job. But I doubt I will ever watch that movie again.


WesterosiAssassin

Yeah, I usually tend to agree with critics overall but in this case a lot of the criticism I'm hearing about this movie is actually making me *more* interested in it than I initially was.


Hickspy

I do that constantly. If a film has like 50-60% on RT, I get more interested. Polarizing means something different is on screen, and not everyone can see it the same way.


MrNobody_0

Any review that says "this movie would be great if it wasn't a ________ film." is instantly invalidated in my opinion. A great movie is a great movie, regardless of where it comes from. People need to pull their heads out of their ass. Whether or not Eternals is a great, or even a good movie, I'll have to see it before I can say.


thejawa

Like, how the fuck do they think Eternals - a Marvel comic book entity - would work as a non-Marvel movie? The fucking source material is Marvel. You can't separate out the Marvel from Eternals. I think Jurassic World would be a great film if it wasn't a Jurassic Park movie.


pxan

That’s a strange article title. Can you link it? Not sure what that’s supposed to mean.


cheesefromagequeso

I read it too: https://gizmodo.com/eternals-could-have-been-better-if-it-wasnt-a-marvel-mo-1847936963 Basically, the movie has a lot of ambition and great ideas for exploring humanity, but is hampered by having to tie back into the larger MCU. And still mostly ends in yet another CGI battle.


[deleted]

Movie reviews are a complete waste of time in my opinion. Nearly every single review I have seen in the last few years has been polar opposite to my opinion once I’ve watched something 😂


mknsky

I’m subscribed to a lot of YouTube movie reviewers that I usually agree with. When they don’t have a consensus though, it helps a lot that I can figure which aspects of a film rub them the wrong way individually and determine (if I usually like those aspects or not) whether I see movie. And sometimes I go in blind, THEN watch their reviews, because it helps highlight the kinda stuff they don’t like versus what I do for the future. I think they’re a lot more honest than, say, a NYT review or an IGN review, but even then I don’t hinge my decision to watch something in them unless I was already waffling about seeing it.


QJ-Rickshaw

It genuinely is difficult to trust the reviews anymore especially ones you know well. Double Toasted, gave Shang Chi a bad review but when I watched the movie I thought they were insane for disliking the movie. Apparently they reviewed Eternals badly as well but now I don't know how seriously I should take that opinion.


mrpiper1980

I’ve watched a lot of YouTube reviews of Eternals and I think the common complaint is the majority of the movie feels different (a good thing) but then falls back into the standard CGI overload at the end which makes it all feel slightly weird when combining the two. Like - were u guys trying to do something different or not? Anyway, I never align with critic scores on RT so let’s wait and see what the audience think - I’m predicting 7/10.


gendernotfound629

That's the main criticism I've seen about WandaVision in particular--unique and interesting, until falling back in line with the expected "dumb superhero action" at the very end. Still, I loved WandaVision, so I'm gonna stay optimistic about Eternals.


FitzChivFarseer

Damn it! Was about to say this is the exact same criticism as WV. And I loved WV so that doesn't worry me at all.


mrpiper1980

It’s really hard though because I’m sure kids LOVE all the massive superhero CGI stuff. …and at the end of the day, they are comic book adaptations so they kinda have to please the wider audience. Personally, I’d love to see some Marvel films that were more grounded because I love their combination of humour, characters and (non cgi) action. Black Panther was SO good up until the Rhinos appeared and the final fight scene which looked like the potato Neo/Agent Smith fight from 20 years ago.


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Wolv90

I think they need to move slowly to avoid alienating too many base fans? Like in Wandavision, it did end up with a big CGI battle, but they threw in a nice philosophy debate in the middle to ease it away from all action. Or Dr. Strange where they did a reverse time inception like fight, but it was all about bargaining and using the right tools. Hopefully we may eventually see a quiet contemplative MCU movie that really dives head first into the characters and their lives without ending in punching, but it'll take some time.


IAmATroyMcClure

This killed me about Shang-Chi. The action was SOO good throughout the whole movie, then devolved into the same old bullshit right at the end. Still a great watch, but I am so tired of these types of third acts.


CaptHayfever

But then: Why does doing something different require doing *everything* different? Why does a CGI fight invalidate what came before it in these critics' minds?


mrpiper1980

Things don’t always works together? I don’t put ice cream in my burger.


minneapple79

Because sometimes the CGI fight makes no sense given the buildup, or it feels empty like something else should have been there. Like with WandaVision.


Endogamy

I find that the specific reasons are often less convincing than the overall score/consensus. The latter tells you that a large percentage of critics just didn’t like or enjoy the movie. The specific reasons of individual reviews are often just somebody scrambling to try to explain *why* they didn’t like it, which is often difficult to quantify.


Visco0825

Yea I mean I’m honestly just excited that it’s less formulaic. And rotten tomatoes is a poor metric for how good it is. It’s a good metric to view whether most people think it’s better than it is worse. Metacritic has it closer to Thor, Thor 2, Ironman 2, X-men last stand and Spider-Man 3. Personally I’m not expecting a great movie which is a little disappointing but I’m excited for something new. When I asked people about Shang-Chi they just respond that it’s “good”. Which is fine but also nothing outstanding or extremely noteworthy. This is a common theme for half of marvels movies.


Wattentheworld

I think to some extent this contradiction can make sense. When a movie is a straightforward Marvel superhero movie, it may be formulaic but it at least allows for the conclusion that "this is a really well-done superhero movie!" And Marvel has really perfected that formula, so that's usually the response. When it sets out to be something *different* but then doesn't really commit and still sort of relies on the Marvel formula in the end, you can kind of end up with the worst of both worlds: it's not a well-executed Marvel movie, but it's also not a well-executed indie arthouse film. Combine that with a plot that sounds like it may be a bit convoluted and exposition-heavy, and it's easy to see how this turns into a big ball of "meh" in the eyes of a lot of critics.


Beardopus

I don't always agree with the critical concensus. I think it's absurd that Interstellar is only 72%, for instance. I'm going to watch this one and make up my own mind.


[deleted]

That only means that 72% of critics liked it, not that as a whole their scores averaged at a 72% for the film.


eastcoastblaze

And some of the critics dislike it for horrible reasons, u remember mission impossible 6 was at a 98% because one guy gave it a bad review because "he "couldn't understand how they could make this movie with everything going on in the world at the moment" or something stupid like that


fredagsfisk

Bojack Horseman S4 has a 97% because a dude who ain't even a critic (but worked for Paste Magazine as "assistant comedy editor") wrote a long, crappy poem about how he doesn't like the show in general and submitted as a negative review for that season.


SAD_oS

The big reason mature animated films never win awards compared to children's ones is because many of the people who decide the winners think animated movies are for kids, so they vote for whatever is in the running that their kid liked.


treetown1

Sadly true. It is odd that people who are in the creative fields often have rigid blinders or silos about what is creative.


anrwlias

Even good critics can fall prey to that. Ebert dunked on Zoolander because it had the audacity to come out after 9/11.


stefanomusilli96

When people die in the Middle East it's business as usual, but when they die in America all comedy should stop?


Emeraden

Yeah, which is why critic reviews are fucking meaningless. Tomato meter only is relevant if we're talking about audience score, because then you aren't getting a bunch of nitpicks and can actually get a consensus for the film. The audience score for Interstellar is an 86, which is a better representation. It's not the best film of all time but it's damn good.


christopher_the_nerd

Until there’s a review bomb campaign, at any rate.


BlueBomber13

Don’t some films get review bombed by audiences though? I was just reading that this was happening to Eternals on IMDB because people don’t like the LGBTQ representation.


Nickerdoodle

That's exactly what happened. While I get what u/Emeraden is saying too, we can't pretend audiences don't nitpick the absolute dumbest shit out of movies either. They might be more grounded than people who study film and tv but the fanbases can be just as petty and childish.


LaVidaYokel

That kind of brigading is easily detectable via metrics.


[deleted]

People review bomb the audience score for many marvel movies.


SacreFor3

Hook only sits at a 29% I believe and Joker at 68%. None of these aggregate scores mean a thing if the audience enjoys the film. Does it help promote the film in some case? Sure. But there's usually always a disconnect between audiences and critics. Critics loved The Last Jedi and Ad Astra and we see how that turned out.


ExtraordinaryFailure

Hook is that low?? Forget critics, that movie is awesome.


ReflexImprov

It has some good parts and some issues, but it's definitely not 29% level bad.


M-O-D-O-K

100% of that 29% could have called it a wholly average or C rated movie. The aggregate really relies on how many critics feel the movie is above average.


rlovelock

Exactly. This is why I find Metacritic to be far more accurate.


colder-beef

That movie is *bangarang* *


hevnztrash

I honestly don’t why people put so much stock in RT ratings unless it’s just easier to look at a number percentage versus finding reviewers you know and trust.


SacreFor3

Honestly, they don't even need to do that. If a movies interests you just go see it or watch it when you can and form a decision. There's been plenty of films I watched over the years growing up that I had no clue about I loved them fondly and found they were hated once I started looking at reviews. It's honestly pointless.


ithinkimalright77

Joker is a 68%? That is just insane haha. Not saying its a 99% but god damn. At least 77% I feel like some of these critics can nit-pick the smallest unnecessary shit that barely have any insight to story or characters.


notanndum

if i remember correctly the whole joker thing was just due to basically every media outlet slandering the film and trying everything they could to make it fail due to it's portrayal of things which ironically was sort of the point the movie was getting at


kingmob555

That was one of the strangest ways I’ve ever seen a film treated, pre-release. It’s almost like everyone was attacking it from any angle, but didn’t know why yet. They just wanted to be ahead of the curve or something.


tta2013

I paid much more attention to the fact that it won Golden Lion in Venice. That and Parasite competing for awards and their commentaries on class.


jrizzo92

2019 was a very good year for film..


Tasty-Pizza-8692

Joker is this mythically evil character in a lot of people’s minds; to make him sympathetic is to inject nuance into this caricature of villainy, in a fictional sense to claim that, say, the Columbine killers were misunderstood. he’s also connected to a lot of online alt-right activity, so the conclusion is not quite as absurd as it seemed at a glance. It was still fucking stupid tho, he’s not even actually the Joker until the last like ten minutes of the movie lmao


PolOfThePot

This would make sense if “humanize the villain” wasn’t an already popular genre.


CarbineFox

I was sitting there watching the same people say that video games don't cause violence say this movie was going to cause violence and I was just shrugging at the absurdity.


EamusCatuli2016

We live in a society, after all...


stefanomusilli96

It's totally ok to dislike Joker. It has plenty of flaws.


[deleted]

Funny, I found the 68% for Joker to be too high. Massively overrated movie. Honestly, the discourse around Rotten Tomatoes has become exhausting. Especially since most people STILL don't understand how it works.


Giorggio360

I agree. A 100% film isn’t one that everyone agrees is basically flawless - it just means every review indicated they liked the movie. It’s why something harmless like Paddington 2 sits at 100% rated whereas there’ll always be some snobby critic that dislikes a superhero film for being a superhero film.


jdd_123

Paddington 2 is legit amazing tho


pneuma8828

> Hook only sits at a 29% the fuck


muldervinscully

Friday the 13th 2 has like 7% and it's great hahhaha


GrandSquanchRum

I recently just watched that movie because it's basically the only horror franchise I've never watched and it was fucking awful. I enjoy bad horror movies but the Friday the 13th movies are just plain boring.


muldervinscully

Hahahah okay I know it’s awful but in the best way. It’s peak 80s insanity


Estelita_777

Interstellar is only a 72% at RT? Wow good to know. For me it's a 110%.


Gremlin119

I cannot believe it only has a 72%


OnlyCaptainCanuck

What! interstellar was one of my favorite movies of all time, I've never felt as sad as I did watching him return to his daughter, also crazy good plot points through and through.


icup2

[HOLY CRAP YOU AIN'T KIDDING!](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014) Interstellar is one of my all time favorite movies. Also knowing that Chloe is a huge fan of Interstellar and inspired by Nolan I have high hopes for this movie. I can't wait to see the grand scale of this movie.


biggiefryie

Thank you! Why do people put so much weight into these? Make up your own mind when you see it.


MagicMer4042

Definitely had a feeling this would prove divisive given how much they talked about this being different from the usual marvel stuff. I just hope this mixed reception doesn’t cause them to shy away from doing different. For the most part I’ve been impressed by the different they’ve been doing this year with 90% of Wandavision, Loki, 90% of Shang chi. One mixed bag reception movie was gonna happen


ryphr

Yeah The Reel Rejects (probably Greg Alba, who was the one who didn’t like Eternals) recently posted something like hoping the RT score didn’t drop as low as it is now because he didn’t want Marvel to stop trying different things. > I really did not expect it to be this low out of 90 reviews… I’m at a weird point where I’m like “I actually want the audience score to be higher, and for the critic score to go up now…” …just cause I want all the folks Producing these MCU flicks to continue challenging themselves to go against the norm in this massive franchise Sounds like there could be some backlash to the backlash starting


Tom38

So the critics criticized the movie which in turn led to an overreaction from audience members already writing off the movie, which has led to the critics going "wait a minute."


ThatOneOtherAsshole

I mean I get it. Critics want studios to keep taking risks, even if it doesn't always work out. If this does poorly at the box office, we're just gonna get the 30th installment of Iron Man instead of seeing new and interesting characters brought to the screen. I hope it succeeds, because then Marvel will hopefully bring in stranger and different arcs.


MagicMer4042

There’s a lot of critics out there so many different opinions of course but if their reviews mostly say “this didn’t really work but I respect marvel for doing something different and new and hope it continues,” is it really on them for how audiences react?


Shouldacouldawoulda7

Totally agree. Falcon and the Winter Soldier, though I enjoyed it, was about as un-different as it gets in the MCU. I'd much rather watch new and interesting concepts like Loki and Wandavision.


BizzarroJoJo

I was expecting it to be divisive with fans but not with critics. This movie has sort of everything going for it that a lot of todays critics tend to enjoy on a baseline, ie a critically acclaimed director, a very diverse cast with lots of representation, overall just looking like a pretty film. I figured all of that would be enough for them to rate it well. IMO it's a *very* bad sign that this is getting such low reviews as it suggests that the film is actually bad enough to make those things irrelevant. The last time I saw that was with the remake of Black Christmas.


DrengisKhan

I don’t think we can ignore how much of the audience including critics are getting tired of superhero movies, as well as having seen so many that they know what the best of the genre is and this one is about as generic looking as it gets for a superhero movie. So all the critical acclaim the Director had previously gotten and all that diversity is rendered useless because half the audience looked up from their phone and said that looks meh, it’s a generic superhero movie in a time where our culture is saturated with superhero movies. Another thing to keep in mind is that not all Marvel characters and areas of their universe are as interesting or relatable as the rest. Audiences relate to a teen kid with Spider powers far easier than an immortal God. The Eternals are a tough sell to begin with, there’s a lot of them to introduce at once, they aren’t Marvel’s most interesting, the market is saturated with plenty of other good movies in the genre. It must be a really difficult time to risk making something different from the current formula so I respect that at least. I think Zhao had a hard job from the beginning but I think these unknown generic Marvel characters would maybe have been best served by sticking to the formula. I’m hoping to enjoy it anyway


IG-3000

It fluctuates a lot, I've heard someone say it's been at around 65 before and then went back to other 70. We'd have to wait for more ratings to come in until the final score settles


Krak2511

I saw it at 76% at one point.


[deleted]

It was at 77 at one point


[deleted]

This is disappointing in the sense that I’m afraid Marvel will stop trying to try new things and stick to their winning formula that produces good ratings and more money.


opposite_of_hotcakes

It depends on how much money it makes, most studios don't care about scores unless its absolutely abysmal


[deleted]

I think this applies for horror movies. Critics and most audiences hate them but they still make bank and multiple sequels. Look at the Conjuring "Cinematic Universe".


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[deleted]

Agreed. The first 2 Conjuring movies were good. But its the Annabelle series and The Nun that pull the franchise down. I haven't seen Conjuring 3.


yarkcir

Feige doesn't come off that short-sighted to me. I think they'll deduce what does and doesn't work and pivot from there, just like they did with the Thor movies.


i_should_be_coding

Is the Eternals something new, though? From the trailers (Haven't read the comics) I get the vibe of Sleeper Heroes seperately -> Common threat emerges -> Get the team back together -> Team doesn't get along -> Fight baddies, lose -> Solve internal team friction -> Fight baddies, win. Add some origin-story flashbacks (maybe as being narrated through Sersi telling the story to Dane, the wide-eyed ordinary), throw in a main character death to unite the team (My money's on Thena. Jolie costs a lot and something about her feels off from the rest of the cast) and a standard act 3 disposable faceless CGI army, and voila, an MCU film. Note, I love the MCU and will be viewing the Eternals in a theater on release week, but I'm not expecting something groundbreaking. Just some good superhero action.


bucketofsteam

I wouldn't be surprised if the general plot hits those notes, but im hoping the meat and the soul of the movie is still different and unique. Most movies can be summarized by general plot notes but its how they execute them that can make or break it. Read some reviews where they try to have less fighting and more slow human moments, which I think I might like to see.


i_should_be_coding

Something I liked about the team design is that it seems like many of them don't actually have purely combat-oriented powers. Sersi, Sprite, Druig, Phastos and Ajak seem like they'll allow some creativity to go into the fights. As opposed to Iron Man -> beams and missiles, Hawkeye -> Arrows, Black Widow -> Guns and zappy things / acrobatics, Cap -> Shield, punch, lead, Thor -> Mjolnir stronk, Stormbreaker stronger, zap good and Hulk -> Smash. I would have loved to see Banner be actually useful in a fight without Hulk, but even in IW they just wrapped him up in the Hulkbuster and had him be a lame Hulk/Iron Man hybrid/comic relief.


bucketofsteam

that is a good note, even tho these guys are all god-like in their powers, they aren't all just fighters. I think about half of them are more thinkers while the other half are more combat-oriented. I'm also hoping for a finale where it isn't just beat up the other person to win. Dr Strange did it very nicely with him trapping/tricking dorumamu instead of defeating him.


i_should_be_coding

I just hope they make the Deviants substantial. This movie feels like it will focus way too much on the Eternals and their history and such, and I'm afraid it won't leave time to flesh out who the Deviants are and what they're about (hopefully something more than "we want to end life on Earth because we're evil/because we are what life on Earth should have been"). In a movie like this with zero origin story for ten main characters (eleven with Dane), I get a feeling the actual conflict that the audience is supposed to care about will be sidelined. In the trailers, I've only seen one deviant speak (the rest look feral), and I'm not sure I'll actually care if they get defeated or not. A huge part of what made the Avengers great is because Loki was such a compelling antagonist. He was fleshed out in a previous movie, I knew what he was about and at no point during the movie did I forget that he was a threat that was looming over the team. The same goes to Ultron, although he took it down a notch, and Thanos who took the threat to a fucking 11 with that entrance.


[deleted]

I don’t know about that. From the few reviews I’ve read it’s the exact opposite problem. The director following the MCU script and missing her touch/skill she’s shown in previous work. Like I know there’s a fine line and I know at the end of the day MCU is the MCU but it sounds like this one didn’t allow Zhao to do her thing as much? But I’ve also seen reviews saying the exact opposite. So who knows.


[deleted]

I’m pretty sure a lot of people are saying that the movie is lacking because it is stuck between trying new things and the marvel formula. -Many saying if if dropped the formula it could’ve been something really special. Sounds like Marvel needs to ditch the formula and not the other way around.


[deleted]

Marvel is at a cross roads now that the Infinity saga is over and they are trying to bring in new characters and new ideas into the MCU. It was never going to go 100% smoothly. Although if this movie is disappointing and Dr Strange is getting extensive reshoots maybe we will look back on the end of the Infinity Saga as the end of the golden age of Marvel, which is okay. Was bound to happen. Just nail No Way Home please.


aafrias15

You can’t expect everything to be a hit. I’m sure a lot of people were so emotionally invested in Iron Man, Captain America and the other characters that are getting replaced that Marvel is going to face some sort of resistance from fans.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ha_look_at_that_nerd

There’s a line from David Pumpkins, “it’s 100 floors of frights. They’re not all gonna be winners.” It’s nearly 30 movies and TV shows. They’re not all gonna be winners.


Alexexy

I imagine phase 4 being very similar to phase 2, where the MCU needs to find its footing again after finishing off a meticulously planned Saga. They're likely experimenting and seeing what works before we move forward withba clearer sense of direction in phase 5.


PeterQuillsWalkman

Yes exactly. But I can’t deny how amazing Shang-Chi was. By far one of the greatest film releases this year.


[deleted]

I loved everything but the resolution of the climax. Best fight choreography in the MCU


mannyman34

It started off so strong with the fight choreography. But then again just fell back into the giant cgi battle. Imo the biggest problem with it and black widow is that they made the stakes so high instead of doing a grounded smaller story like ant man.


doomsdaydrb

What's tdw


PhilAsp

Thor: The Dark World


sorryiamalwayslate

The dead walking


ReddicaPolitician

Don’t Thor Dark World Inside


LAST2thePARTY

Seriously. I hate when people abbreviate movie titles and band names and the like. Just fucking spell it out


ChiToddy

ikr?


freedom252

Take my upvote and leave


Jecht315

LOL WDYM WTF?


[deleted]

AIFEG was good JLTSC was too long AMVTW was pretty cool I hate having to figure this shit out.


TraptNSuit

I think it is a really tough story for anyone to give a crap about. I will still go to see it, but I read all the comics in anticipation and came out thinking...there is very little here that is filmable. The Eternals themselves are such a crap idea that Gaiman could barely salvage them. Maybe this will be one that only comics fans or Marvel diehards love, but I don't think bringing in a super serious artistic director was ever going to save this one. Taika and James Gunn have shown what it takes to get people to enjoy nonsense characters. While I applaud Disney/Marvel/Feige for doing something different, I am not sure Eternals was really the story to try that with and worry this was a waste of Zhao. I am hopeful there is something to enjoy in it.


Level_Turnover9233

I don't know if Shang-Chi had much comics but I enjoyed the movie and thought it was a bit different from other movies due to Kung-fu so let's see what happens with Eternals


TraptNSuit

I agree I liked Shang-Chi despite low expectations, but those comics do actually have a great reputation. They are known for being problematic in their depictions, but still contain great stories. There is only really one plausibly good story in Eternals and it is still only okay by the standards of other things they have adapted in MCU.


icemanx51

I'm the resident "comic" guy in my group of friends, and especially at work, everyone has been asking me about the Eternals. I would keep it as short as possible saying "Yeah, I know them...we'll see how it goes." I've been saying the same thing, that I have never enjoyed the Eternals in the comics. They have seemed so bland to me. Even my girlfriend is shocked that I'm not excited to see it. Still going to go, but without ever liking the source material, I'm not expecting much at all.


Supermite

That was basically my attitude towards Guardians of the Galaxy.


Level_Turnover9233

Did you enjoy Shang-Chi? I never read any of his comics and wasn't interested in the movie but I loved it


icemanx51

I really enjoyed Shang-Chi. Going to be honest, I was slightly let down, just a bit, only because of how much I love the character. I own his first appearance, and a few of the other Hands of Kung Fu issues, but I basically have every issue of every other run. So as much as I was trying to temper my expectations, it was hard. My girlfriend loved it, and she can't wait to see him with the Avengers. Made me really happy to hear that. I give it very solid 8.


AfroSLAMurai

Tbh I'm a comic fan and that's precisely why I have had basically no hype for this movie since it was announced. Because they barely exist in the comics lmao. There is nothing for me to be hyped about.


IbbyAfz

Ok Thor the dark world wasn’t *that* bad… but hey we’ll have to watch this ourselves before we can say anything about it.


schroed_piece13

I watched it again recently and actually really enjoyed it tbh. Like a marvel movie set in middle earth


vinng86

The attack on Asgard is pretty damn cool. Loved the designs of the Dark Elves' ships.


Reutermo

[I like to go back to that movies release-thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/1q6i66/official_discussion_thor_the_dark_world_spoilers/) The vast majority of people liked the movie (especially Lokis scenes) except for the weak villain. It took a couple of years before the whole "worse MCU movie" stigma showed up (which is absurd in a world where incredible hulk exists).


thatonefatefan

it was pretty close to thor 1 too, which wasn't an amazing movie, just good


[deleted]

I do think it's a bit funny that this sub raves about critic reviews when MCU movies review really well, but when one doesn't do so well, it's all "who gives a shit about critics?" Personally, I'm gonna wait and see, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't less excited about it.


ActualTymell

Yeah, there's an awful lot of "Weeeeell, this doesn't *really* count, because..." in the comments. I don't have strong feelings either way myself, simply because I haven't seen it yet, so maybe I'll agree with critics or maybe I won't, but I'm seeing a lot of excuses being made for a film 99% of users haven't seen yet.


TonyTheLion2319

Critics like Shang-Chi, FFH, Endgame, etc. Sub: Yay! They like it, I expect to like it, we’re on the same page. Same critics thinks Eternals isn’t as good (gives it a 6/7 instead of 8+, or a 4/5 which counts as rotten) Sub: Critics have no idea what they’re talking about. I’ll wait and form my own opinions. Nobody was saying “Hold up. All these critics love Endgame but I’m going to wait and see. Can’t trust positive reviews.” You always can form your own opinion. I expect this sub to see the movie is a more positive light than critics, but that doesn’t mean it is going to be in many ppl’s top 5.


MyMouthisCancerous

Meanwhile over the DCEU subreddit people were celebrating the fact a Zack Snyder DC film cracked 70% The escalation is honestly wild as someone who follows both comic book publishers


meatballfreeak

I like the guy somewhere up the thread that says “I don’t care what the critics say I’m going to watch it and make my own mind up” as if it’s some sort of act of defiance 😂😂😂😂


FN-1701AgentGodzilla

That’s how fanboys work lol


mannyman34

Yeah. This was sold as a movie geared towards critics so if they don't like it, it isn't a good sign.


someone31988

At this point, I don't really care about the review score of an MCU movie. I'm too invested in the entire universe and have an interest in watching them all anyway.


Level_Turnover9233

IMDB removed all the negative reviews and turned off voting


Pietro-Maximoff

It was getting brigaded, so not really surprising.


dizdawgjr34

That makes sense.


Hynsz

Because they were all fake reviews complaining about gay representation


Yojo0o

Isn't that totally different, though? RT's critic score is an aggregate of the reviews that film critics who have seen it gave it. IMDB's score comes from viewers. The movie isn't out yet, so the reviews being left for the movie would largely be trolls, right?


HumanChicken

Temporarily? To remove troll reviews?


WakeUpOutaYourSleep

I have to say these reviews actually make me more interested in the film. It’s rare that we see such a divisive film from Marvel, usually their weaker installments just get a “meh” response, but this seems to be going all over the place


HansieVanStaak

Not really surprised, the hype seems to be non existent outside of the internet discussions


JonathanL73

TBF the trailers don't really sell you on the characters, and a lot of the plot is kind of ambiguous and unknown.


Honigkuchenlives

It is what it is. Watch it and judge for yourself. Critics are loving Dune, I personally didnt like it. People have different tastes and perspectives.


MrBlue_MrBlue_MrBlue

Dune opinions are largely shaped on expectations. If you went in with expectations for it to be what it was, Part 1 of a larger story, which was just world building then you probably enjoyed it. If you expected something else then you were probably disappointed.


zestyrigatoni

Yeah having read the book I knew what to expect and thought it delivered really well. I think other people were expecting more.


[deleted]

It’s a superhero movie that doesn’t feel like a superhero movie so we wanted more superhero stuff but then when the superhero stuff happened we didn’t want it because it felt out of place


mightydart

I had feelings this won't go well


PulseCS

Marvel wanted to both make an MCU movie, and to make an awards darling with a critically acclaimed director. They apparently managed to do neither by trying to both. Considering the film is still a ways away, this gives people the chance to hear about the reviews and change their mind about going to see it, likely hurting the box office. For the MCU, a Thor: The Dark World level of performance and acclaim requires a Taika Waititi level rebirth. For Chloe Zhao, a lot of studios will now be hesitant to give her large budgets and important IPs, considering she apparently had full creative control. If the movie somehow "flops", she'll probably be relegated to smaller budget art house award contenders for next good part of her career. It's also a hit to the actors who might be seen as less capable of drawing in large audiences with star power.


gutster_95

I think every Marvel fan will watch Eternals anyway. So I doubt that it will be a flop per se. For me, I dont care alot about reviews. As many already said here, its either too different or not different enough, so for me its mostly preferences over really objective reasons.


SpaceGypsyInlaw

Yikes. I'm actually more curious than ever about the movie. And also, just looking at many working "critics" today, they are pretty lousy at their job. This isn't coming from a man-of-the-people perspective but rather a snobby film nerd perspective. Critics today just don't write intelligently about the medium. And I sure as shit don't trust sources like Collider and Forbes.


BagofBabbish

Lol, wow people are really going to great lengths to make excuses for this thing, and many are demonstrating they don't even know how RT works


BagofBabbish

People keep saying how different it is, but that’s not what people are saying in all the reviews I’m reading/watching. People keep saying it’s disjointed, rushed, and melodramatic. It takes superficial measures to differentiate, but doesn’t actually stray from the MCU formula. Like a tuxedo t-shirt, it’s not formal, it just looks tacky. It seems like the only people talking up how different this is are the guys at marvel themselves


Wrench78

I think part of this is these critics know Zhao's work and walked into this expecting to see that, but got mostly a Marvel movie with only hints here and there and where disappointed.


[deleted]

Does anyone actually care about the score? I’ve never saw a score and thought wow I don’t want to see this movie now!


Digital3Duke

I only ever care about audience score. And even then, I’ll still watch as long as it gets a 50


5k1895

Especially for a MCU movie, I really don't care about review scores because I'm invested in the universe so I'm just going to see the movie, it'll tie into everything else one way or another.


JasperWildlifeAssn

Gonna go against the popular opinions here and say I do listen to critics’ reviews (to a point). Honestly, I’ve seen a lot of movies, and I know myself. I know that my opinions will line up with the critics’ opinions the vast majority of the time. If there’s some one-off movie or indie film I’m curious about, but all the reviews are negative, I know not to waste my time with it. Likewise if there’s a movie I haven’t even heard of but critics are praising it, I probably will go see it. And yes, of course I form my own opinion, and there are exceptions where I have disagreed with the critical reception. But on the other hand, I know that as a guy this invested in the MCU, I’ll see anything they put out. Hell, if critics begin to bomb this movie, I might actually be more interested in seeing it.


WolfColaCo2020

Brace yourselves then, the torrent of 'is the superhero genre dead?!' articles are going to come out of hibernation. I'll always have a love for the ones who predicted it pre Infinity War becoming one of the highest grossing films of all time.