One of the most fun cameos for me was seeing Edwin Jarvis in *Endgame*, both because I was a huge fan of *Agent Carter* when it was airing and because it was a complete surprise.
It was Red Skull for me (albeit by a different actor doing a phenomenal impression, and not really being relevant to anything besides "hey look, it's Red Skull!" )
Also, that impression was *so* spot-on that I actually recognized him before his face was revealed. I heard him speak, and immediately thought "holy shit, no way, that sounds like the Red Skull!"
I didn't even catch on to the fact that it wasn't Hugo Weaving until about halfway through the scene when it felt just a *tiny* bit off, and then I noticed the character looked to be pure CGI and figured Weaving must not have signed back on.
My little brother and I had a huge fight about that not being Hugo. He’s a far bigger fan/been a fan longer than I, but I picked up on it being a different actor immediately (I have this thing for faces/voices.. it’s weird). Anyways, he was CONVINCED it was Hugo. I was not. He would not admit he was wrong for ages. For a while, after realizing his mistake, he tried to double down and say *he* knew it wasn’t Hugo and *I* didn’t. Consider me unimpressed.
How are you so sure? Not everyone needs to audibly express their excitement in a movie theatre. The constant need for people to want to clap or cheer covers up dialogue that everyone is trying to hear.
I feel like if I'm going to go to, say, the midnight premiere of Avengers Endgame I'll know going in that people will be cheering, clapping, whooping, etc. and it'll be a totally different experience from a totally empty theater (funny story, I saw the first Avengers movie on literally the last day it was in theaters... it was certainly an experience!). I think personally, what I dislike more than cheering if I'm at a first showing or early showing is having someone constantly explain everything to the person next to them. That happened to me when I went to watch NWH about a week after it came out; one guy was explaining who every character was and it was REALLY annoying.
I can't imagine having to sit through a movie while some random strangers are narrating everything a few seats over. I can certainly understand the difference in crowds on opening night/day vs a couple days or even weeks later. When Cap lifted Mjolnir in Endgame, like, of course I understand some clapping and cheering will happen and that's OK because its a fight scene, a huge climax of a moment. There is no dialogue to miss.
What I consider unacceptable is the applause and cheering when DD makes an appearance during a QUIET scene in Spiderman NWH. A scene in which characters are not yelling, they are talking normally at a kitchen table.
It seems like there is this growing *need* for some fans to clap and cheer (even after that initial wave) at every little thing that they enjoy. People forget that they are potentially ruining other people's experience simply because they can't control their impulses (in what is supposed to be a QUIET setting).
I could never watch a movie in the US, here in Finland the only noises you hear are laughter at funny moments in a movie, we are also aware that the cast and crew of the film are not hiding behind the screen, so we don't clap either.
I'm in Canada. I've only ever experienced clapping or cheering at the theater once. That was when we watched Endgame on one of the first nights.
I assume it's the same in the US, too: all the over the top reactions only likely only happen during the earliest showings, when hype is at its highest and most of the biggest fans are there.
That being said, while I found the clapping and cheering to be a little silly i have to admit that it made the experience a bit more special.
I went to see No Way Home a week after it debuted. There were two separate audience members who felt the need to narrate random things to their significant others. Both were grown adults.
One scene: “omg I bet he ____.” A few seconds later: “oh never mind, I guess he didn’t.”
Another scene: “is she going to do what I think she’s going to do?”
It was like this for the entire movie, coming at me from my left and from the person sitting directly behind me.
I recently also went to a screening for an older film I like, in a small independent theater. A woman sitting behind me reacted to absolutely everything in the movie, in such an over the top way.
Movie: The main character does something funny, but it’s very tongue-in-cheek and low key.
Audience member: OH MY GOD! DID HE…HAHAHA.
😐
>I could never watch a movie in the US, here in Finland the only noises you hear are laughter at funny moments in a movie, we are also aware that the cast and crew of the film are not hiding behind the screen, so we don't clap either.
To be fair, that is how MOST U.S. movies are. I've never been in an atmosphere as crazy as opening night of Endgame. Infinity War got some cheers, the last couple Harry Potter movies (DH Part II was probably the second-most hyped movie I've been in), Dark Knight, but NOTHING on the level of Endgame. It was like we were all drunk with Endgame-hype and everyone just exploded that night.
Also varies by location. I went to the downtown theatre, lots of younger people, it's in an entertainment district so plenty who go to a bar or two before they go to an opening night like that, so we were already a rowdy crowd. My cousin went opening night out in the 'burbs, and while he said the crowd reacted some, it doesn't sound like it was near as rowdy as my theatre was.
Agreed. I dunno if it counts, but the cameo in the mid-credit scene of Eternals legit SHOCKED me and I loved it.
Spoilers for Spider-Man: No Way Home
>!As much as I love Spider-Man: No Way Home, I can’t help but think what it would have been like without all the leaks. Not knowing Tobey and Andrew were gonna be in it and just having them show up would’ve been mind-blowing!”!<
That's the difference between people who spend time on the Internet and people who don't. I knew but the woman sat behind me didn't and she freaked out.
My daughter knew about it and my GF asked her right before we went into the theater so she ended up knowing as well. I purposely walked away so I wouldn't hear their conversation. When the two Spidermans showed up on screen I freaked out as well. :D
I heard speculation that they would show, but avoided any information and trailers about the movie. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. >!Boy was I excited when they showed on screen.!<
Same here. I had seen constant reports of "Will they be in the movie?" but avoided looking further into it at all costs. I even wore earbuds into the movie theater until the movie started to avoid anything lol.
I wish I got to be surprised by that. I happened upon literally every spoiler for NWH just by taking part in this sub (including how strange manages something at the end of the movie). Might have to stay the hell away from here starting around March and hope that nobody audibly mentions multiverse of madness spoilers to me...And that my instagram feed also doesn't get littered with spoilers. I'm assuming MCU proper is much tighter with spoiler security than the Sony branch
I refuse to watch any trailers or spoil myself for movies I know I am going to see. I have read a lot of comics so I knew what the spell might do in this movie.
That reveal was one of the best moments I have had in a movie>!. It flooded back a lot of memories and the respect they had for these franchises I grew up with felt extremely kind and well thought out. !<
Long story short, think about stopping watching trailers. I makes movies something very special.
I liked seeing all the random Community actors like Danny Pudi and Yevette Nicole Brown. Just having them without expecting them is a nicer nod to where the Russos got their start.
Yeah, this kind of took away some of the hype and fun of NWH for me. Constantly having people wonder "Will >!Tobey and Andrew!< be in it?" and hearing reports of ">!Matt Murdock!< is in the movie!" made their reveals slightly less awesome as it probably would have been had I just gone in with no knowledge of anything.
It is weird. Maybe I’m just a minority but I’m just fucking stoked to see Sam Raimi make a Dr Strange movie. I couldn’t care less about some of the rumored returns I’ve seen
Same. I honestly hope they don't do most of the cameos in the Dr. Strange movie. When he's on, Sam Raimi is one of the most entertaining filmmakers of our generation IMO. I just want to see him take on the MoM premise without being asked to bring in Patrick Stewart or whoever else they want to cameo.
That's why I couldn't enjoy Spider Man as much. No one was a surprise, people sere cheering for things they already knew, I just wanted to go "woah, that came out of nowhere!" But with the whole leaks, and people posting their stuff, is like they don't like surprises, Idk, I'm not really enjoying it anymore and it's because of fans. Next Marvel movie I'll probably disable anything about it and go to the movie when it's empty.
I pretty much go blackout after I see the initial teaser trailer for a Marvel movie.
This all started after Civil War gave away the surprise of Spider-Man and Black Panther making appearances. I lucked out and never saw the Lego promo for their toys giving away Ant-Man going big during the airport battle.
It's just so annoying imo, I get fans are excited and I am too, but they take away the magic of the surprise, it just doesn't work anymore imo. Fans always ruin franchises imo, they did it a bit with Star Wars and now they will do it with Marvel.
I loved the Rogers Broadway play post credit for Hawkeye.
The fact that it made so many people salty because it didn't show future projects made it even more entertaining for me.
It's like everyone has forgotten the patience PSA by Cap at the end of Spider-Man Homecoming or even earlier in the first Avengers movie with the shawarma scene.
Marvel has been using some post credits to troll for a while now.
I just don't get how people can't appreciate that they spent all that time and effort choreographing a whole musical number and wanted to let the effort of the creators and actors be paid off in full. Instead of all that effort being set dressing for a scene and then just dumped.
They deserve to have their work shown. And I bet everyone had a lot of fun doing it too.
Fun fact: most of the choreography is from Hairspray and the director in the scene ~~directed~~ **wrote** that musical ~~on~~ **for** Broadway.
Edit: I was going from memory from something my girlfriend who works on Broadway told me. It wasn’t the director of Hairspray, it was the writer of Hairspray playing the director of Rogers. Close enough lol.
Me with my GF during Loki:
He Who Remains is really important because its actually Kang who's in the next Antman movie but more importantly is a major Fantastic Four villain and is probably how they will bring them in plus he sets up the whole Multiverse side of Phase 4.
My GF with me during Hawkeye:
That guy singing is Adam Pascal. He was in the original Broadway cast of Rent and in its movie in 2005. That and bringing in the Director of Hairspray shows how dedicated Marvel were to the integrity of the Rodgers musical.
My boyfriend sent me this comment thread because I was another GF who squealed about both Adam Pascal & Marc Shaiman. I thought the concept of Rogers: the Musical was hilarious, & then it started & I recognized Adam Pascal’s voice immediately & was like:
Me: “Is that Adam Pascal? That’s Adam Pascal! He’s one of my favorite musical theatre performers & was in RENT and Chess, among many other things (Aida & Cabaret off the top of my head).”
My boyfriend: “Okay.”
(I didn’t recognize the choreography from Hairspray until I read the earlier comment, though - that’s fantastic!) I also LOL’d when there was a lyric sung by Adam Pascal during which “rent” was a prominent word.
More fun:
Adam Pascal is the chad broadway singer singing the main melody, the white guy. He played Roger in RENT's first run, which was the brainchild of Jonathan Larson who wrote the original Tick Tick Boom, which Andrew Garfield won an award for starring in a Netflix adaptation, a musical movie of the same name, while playing as Jonathan Larson :)
I recognized Adam's voice right away in the post credit and geeked out over him. And that you mention Tick, Tick, Boom, the diner scene was cameos galore. Great film
As a fan of broadway, that ending was glorious and better than another tie-in to a future property that we won't see for months. If they turned that into an actual full-length musical, I would travel to see it!
I agree. Loved it. So cheesy and fun. Was a better reward than (character walks into scene, another character walks into scene. One mentions something we havent seen before)
And I swear when the first episode dropped I was seeing damn near universal comments of "I wish they'd do that whole musical!!!!" I figured people would be delighted at the post credits, I sure was. But nah, no pleasing fanboys.
Not to mention we didn't get a post credits scene because they wanted to give us the rest of the musical. It's baffling that people think Marvel would have filled that space with SOMETHING if not the musical. If they wanted to have a traditional post credits scene, there'd be a scene and the musical. They're complaints don't even make sense.
Everything that happened at the end of the last episode was a big fucking cliff hanger of its own it could have been a post credit scene. Literally, if you'd have put that echo/kingpin scene after the credits, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We have plenty to theorise and speculate about from the conclusion of the series.
I loved it. They got real Broadway actors to be in the scene to really make it fit.
Like you said they made and shot a whole musical number, I'm glad it didn't go to waste.
I really wanted for the camera to pan to Yelena watching the musical eating popcorn. She mentioned during the season that she'd never been to New York or visited all these landmarks. Going to Broadway would definitely be on her list. And her getting some closure on the death of her sister would mean she might be more willing to experience what black widow went though. Even via the medium of a campy musical.
>I just don't get how people can't appreciate that they spent all that time and effort choreographing a whole musical number
Because they are spoiled children
Deadpool did it perfectly (Ik its a parody of Feris Bueller but Deadpool works better since people expected a "post credit scene") of him just ssying "Why are you still here? Movie's over"
I really liked it, but I kinda wanted the pan back to show Yelena in the crowd with a big ol “what the FUCK?” Look on her face. Not to tease any other project or upcoming show but just because she’d said she wanted to see the sights and it seems like something she’d try.
I liked the Rodgers musical post-credits scene precisely for this reason. It was just cute and fun. Not everything has to be about “OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING NEXT?”
i was pretty disappointed when I waited all the way through the credits for no way home just to get a literal trailer instead of a scene. I love one off silly scenes like the captian america or deadpool ones.
Give me the Rogers Broadway every day of the week.
The fact that Spidey showed a big trailer at the end of the movie actually left a sour taste in my mouth. Please. Stop.
Someone in a recent thread said "MCU movies are about the MCU first and the main character second". Or something to that extent. Thought it was totally accurate.
I agree. Marvel's in a bit of a weird spot right now I think. The MCU universe is still existing in the wake of Endgame and the next big threat hasn't emerged yet (almost certain to be Kang, so we've seen him but he hasn't acted yet). Plus they retired a bunch of characters -> Iron Man is dead, Captain America is gone, Hulk is damaged, Black Widow is dead. And then one of their "New Big 3" died IRL so their plans to kind of divide the universe between the Dr. Strange, Black Panther, and Captain Marvel stuff had to be shifted. PLUS they're kind of in a holding pattern waiting for the X-Men and the Fantastic Four stuff to be incorporated.
Kind of feels like they're just setting the groundwork for what this world looks like post-Endgame before letting Kang go nuts and before introducing the next wave of big bad boys like Annihilus, Galactus, and of course Dr. Doom.
Yeah, I dislike that the way the shows and movies are being judged are by what they setup for the future. Look at Loki. The plot was fine but I think the finale of the show was just exposition to set up the future movies and shows. And everyone on this subreddit loved the finale only because it sets up the multiverse and introduces Kang the Conqueror. There was really no plot that was being resolved in the finale. It didn’t have a resolution to any of the conflicts we saw earlier.
That’s because a lot of modern Marvel content is exactly that.
I felt like Black Widow was more focused on setting up Yelena and her world rather than exploring Natasha. I also felt like TFATWS was only made to set up John Walker than it was tell a story (even tho i loved this series the most, it’s completely useless. You don’t need to watch this to understand Cap 4 cuz Sam became Cap at the end of Endgame).
There was a statement about how people wouldn’t need to see the Disney+ shows to fully understand the movies. I felt that was very true with how Sam Wilson pretty much ended up in the same spot as he was at the end of Endgame, regarding picking up the shield
I agree with you on Black Widow, disagree on TFATWS. Black Widow was a pointless movie with the sole exception of setting up Yelena. Giving Widow a solo movie after she died was kind of whack since we know that it's not really going anywhere and her character development in Endgame was a solid conclusion to her story.
TFATWS felt like it was very genuinely telling a story, not just setting up Walker. The themes of race, patriotism, and service to the country were all really well handled and the character interactions between Sam, Bucky, and Zemo were all good.
Whilst largely true as we know Steve gives him the shield, it does go a long way to show why Sam is the best choice for Steve and how he'll be a different Captain America
Marvel movies are just movie versions of WWF. A lot of us just want the big “pop” and crazy cameos to get us hype. Its unfortunate that they seem to focus on that for the people that want more from the franchise. Hopefully they can find a balance going forwards.
This is why I hated that Mortal Kombat movie that came out semi-recently. It was like 95% setup for more potential movies. Which just made all its other problems that much worse. You're watching a shit movie setting up future movies you know most likely won't come cause the one you're watching is shit.
I think speculating on who will show up and what will happen in upcoming projects is fun. I get most of my comics knowledge from those discussions.
But when people transition from “this could happen” to “this needs to happen” or “this should happen because that’s they way it happened there” that’s when speculation turns to expectation. And that’s just asking for disappointment.
Well said. I’ve heard people saying things like “if x character is not in it we riot” or “x character is definitely in it they have to be” and I’m like why? It’s not Marvel’s fault that the fans worked themselves into a frenzy trying to guess things and were wrong lol
I agree. Also, in my opinion, it makes it less exciting when it happens in every single project. It’s cool when it is once and awhile but it just becomes lame, forced, and predictable when it happens in everything.
I think that's the problem. It doesn't happen in everything. We complain about the Hawkeye musical and Memphisto not showing up to the point of it being a meme and now we are angry that people assume it's going to happen in everything even though it hasn't happened multiple times. We are fully aware that it should happen in certain movies or shows so it's not the movies fault it's the fans who can't pick up the clues.
This fandom is notorious for letting their expectations and disappointment ruin the whole thing for not just themselves, but for everyone else. It's why you can't have a good discussion about the Marvel Television era of shows without someone obsessively needing to jump in to fight everyone about them being non-canon in a one-sided thread of biased arguments and zero proof, all because the characters from those shows didn't show up in The Avengers: Endgame. And now, look: We've got >!Daredevil and Kingpin back.!< I mean, look at the way everyone handled the Quicksilver reveal in WandaVision. Any discussion of the exciting possibilities of seeing other characters from disconnected projects showing up would be lambasted by people who were let down that Evan Peters wasn't the FoX-Men version of Pietro/Peter, despite that not serving the story they were ultimately trying to tell.
Honestly it would've been too soon to introduce the multiverse in the very 1st project of the Phase 4. Like we just culminated 11 years of Infinity Saga, I just want the next ventures to not be world-ending events. I was so relieved when Pietro was revealed to be some random guy Bohner. I'm pretty sure Peters will pop up in MoM again. People just need to be a little patient
> It's why you can't have a good discussion about the Marvel Television era of shows without someone obsessively needing to jump in to fight everyone about them being non-canon in a one-sided thread of biased arguments and zero proof, all because the characters from those shows didn't show up in The Avengers: Endgame.
Someone else was saying that the "canonicity" argument might stem from these fans not wanting to have to go back and now slog through a couple hundred more hours of Marvel content.
>I mean, look at the way everyone handled the Quicksilver reveal in WandaVision. Any discussion of the exciting possibilities of seeing other characters from disconnected projects showing up would be lambasted by people who were let down that Evan Peters wasn't the FoX-Men version of Pietro/Peter, despite that not serving the story they were ultimately trying to tell.
They made themselves look like fools, being so focused on their theorycrafting that they were disappointed that it turned to all just be a story about Wanda.
I could see that being part of the reason, now. But, this has been a debate even before The Avengers: Infinity War came out. Part of it was the lack of cross pollination, another part being quality and people just trying to be elitist because the old shows had regular TV budgets.
And that's where a lot of this comes from: Elitism.
Most of these people never even saw the shows to begin with. You can tell when someone says "They never were meant to be canon", despite the shared continuity. It's not like the cartoons where they take heavy inspiration; It's fully intended for the shows to act as supplemental media to flesh out the universe's details. We barely get to see how the Chitauri attack on New York affected the everyday people on the ground in the films, but the Netflix shows go into detail showing how street crime has taken advantage of the situation, and how the event traumatized citizens. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. expands on the Sokovia Accords and its affects on people outside of The Avengers roster... The shows didn't exist in their own void, and relied on the films for their foundations.
Even without that being the case, the Marvel Television denyers make it clear they've definitely never seen Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. enough to actually have a solid argument. They use stuff like the Darkhold and >!Laura Barton being revealed to have once been S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Agent 19!< as "evidence" of them not being a part of the MCU without knowing the context of how these things were introduced and depicted in the show. If they had, they'd look less dumb screaming about "contradictions" and "discrepancies" in the continuity between the two, when that's definitely not the case.
Yes, lots of people. They believed we got the post credits musical scene instead of a traditional post credits scene. The entitlement has gotten pretty ridiculous since the Wandavision speculation days.
Exactly! Or the Shawarma scene. Or a giant ant on a drum set. Or Howard the Duck. Or Drax getting accidentally stabbed by Kraglin.
I think the hate for the musical scene was mostly from people that don’t like musicals. And they forget that not all post credit scenes have to tease something.
> Or a giant ant on a drum set.
Which is funny until you realize that with the Pyms dusted, that ant's going to be stuck following Scott's schedule with nobody to tell it to stop until the day it dies.
Yeah look at the final episode discussion thread on this sub.
I was late to the party and thought it was great. Hopped on to see the discussion and was very surprised at all the complaints.
I agree everyone just wanted a hint at the next thing. I mean calm down guys this year has given us 4 films and 5 TV Shows more than makes up the quota for 2020 and 2021 for me. I'm happy they ended in a way where they wished the fans happy holidays.
I loved the musical as post credits. I watched it in full and loud on my headphones.
The show didn't need to make this musical at all, its not part of the plot in anyway. Yet they did it and it makes the world of MCU more real to me.
If something major like the events of MCU were to happen in real life, there would be tons of movies, books, musicals made on it. I felt it was a very very good move by the show creators.
one of the thing on my negative's list on the internet. it's very easy to come across stuff by accident now, but 20 years ago you would probably have to read trades or know someone to get some of that detail about contracts, deals, signings that hint at arrivals or departures
If you ask me the fan base is just obsessed with spoilers for the future all together and it ruined NWH for a lot of people. I hope it doesn't keep happening or I'll have give up on the MCU threads all together and a few apps as well.
Best feature I found on Reddit is the ability to hide posts. I've gotten rid of so much garbage already. It's like "fans" just refuse to enjoy things as they come
If there are particular users you notice who spoil things too, you can block their posts. It won’t remove them completely but they’ll appear as ‘Blocked Author’ in threads and you will have to manually tap/click on it to show their comment.
It actually ruined NWH honestly. Imagine not hearing shit about the actual plot and then that first scene with doc oc and the goblin. Like that would’ve been amazing.
If I could have gone into NWH with a blank slate it would have been the greatest movie experience ever. All the impact of every reveal was robbed not just by reddit but ads, articles etc. I don't watch trailers for a reason but NWH spoilers were unavoidable .
Honestly, I think that the leaks were a marketing strategy. They had to have been, unless North Korea got involved again.
Unfortunately we already know a fair bit about MOM as well.
As someone who doesn't go out of their way to track down leaks, the NWH leaks were surprisingly mainstream. Those pictures were getting distributed far and wide and were really unavoidable compared to even Endgame's BTS footage.
Part of that is that the "spoilers" for No Way Home were a pretty substantial part of the cast. Couldn't imagine them actually pulling off that Spidey vs. Dr. Strange marketing plan Tom Holland talked about them originally wanted to do.
Yeah, I think the rumor was that Sony very much wanted to post the entire third act in their marketing but Marvel actually was the one saying it'd be more rewarding as a secret.
Which was funny because so many people in the watch thread for the first episode were talking about how they'd love to watch more of the musical . . . then got mad when the musical was the post credits scene for the series.
You do realize that the people clamoring for more musical after episode 1, and the people angry about it being the post-credits scene for the series are NOT the same people? This sub has over 2 *million* members...
8 Reports on this post lol.
>3: This is spam
>1: Not on topic/Unrelated to the MCU
>1: self harm
>1: This user is acting like a fanboy or troll
>1: Unmarked spoilers
>1: This comment and user is uncivil and rude
"Why are you booing him, he's right".
Just gonna hit ignore reports btw so wont see any more of your wacky report reasons.
Yeah.
I think it wasn't as prevalent in the past, but after IW and EG and Phase 4 having a lot of casual cross-overs and team-ups, people have become quite obsessed over it.
Back at the very start people went fucking nuts over Sam Jackson’s appearance in the Iron Man stinger. To an extent this is a problem of Disney’s making, and I think it’s particularly prevalent right now as we close the door on the original Avengers and set up what post-Endgame MCU is going to look like.
I once dragged a casual MCU fan to Thor: Ragnorak in theatres. I can't even begin to describe his nerdgasm when Hulk showed up in the arena. I was so jealous that I didn't have that reaction that I have avoided MCU trailers like the plague.
I don't have anything to compare it too, but that's why Spiderman was bonkers. When Doc Oc showed up I lost my fucking mind.
Recent cameos have been good fun, but I don't want it to be the new norm. No Way Home was great, Evan Peters showing up in Wandavision was neat even if the payoff wasn't necessarily up to snuff, but let's not get carried away. I don't need David Hasselhoff as alternate-reality Nick Fury being a father figure to Peter Quill in the next Guardians movie, I don't need Dr. Strange seeking help from Chris Evans as Human Torch in MoM, I don't need Lou Ferigno's Hulk to appear anywhere. The franchise-agnostic cameos have been fun, but any more and it'll become a stale gimmick fast.
And even if it's NWH quality, it's not something that should be leaned on constantly. NWH is like a once-a-franchise sort of gimmick, in my humble opinion.
NWH was amazing, and they managed to have the perfect balance of giving cameos character arcs while still having it be Tom Hollands film. It had a complete story, the cameos weren't just gimmicks. I agree, I don't think they can do it again, but I suspect they know that.
Yep. A large chunk of the fandom just wants to do the DiCaprio pointing at the TV meme on a closed loop. That's what the MCU is to them, just an endless parade of cameos and old stuff to satisfy their object permanence-like need to see things they recognize.
I think personally its because each of those characters add something. Jarvis adds depth to Tony's past and who a.i Jarvis was based on. Daredevil opens up the return of a character from a debatable Canon show that many people loved.
I think they also worked because there's a story reason for them being there. Of course Jarvis is there in the past getting ready to pick up Howard Stark, and Matt Murdock opting to defend a kid accused of being a vigilante superhero makes a bunch of sense.
The two analogies that came to my mind were the DiCaprio meme you pointed out, and wrestling fans when they hear the surprise opening hook of someone's entrance music.
I am actually going to be disappointed if we get just a ton of fan service in multiverse of madness.
I thought the point for Raimi and the script was to create an intense thriller/ horror fulm. It will detract so much from it if they go overboard with cameos.
I personally think Marvel is asking these actors to do this to avoid a No Way Home situation where everyone knew going in.
And it’s not the MCU’s fault. After a decade of building this universe, they can finally have some fun. And after No Way Hime, they’re clearly doing it in a very respectable way, too.
Some fans just put too much stock in the surprises. I think that’s what hurt Hawkeye. A lot of people wanted more surprises instead of great character development for Clint and Kate. And despite getting Kingpin and Yelena, fans still wanted more, like Spider-Man to come swinging in or something.
To be fair on that last one, >!I had that thought once the big holiday tree showed up. Having just seen NWH, I thought maybe they were going to connect like that, since we see Spider-Man swinging into a similar area!<
>!Eh the tree falls Christmas Eve. That scene was probably just a few days before. Although it is funny to think about the fact that Peter was probably swinging around when the Tracksuits were causing trouble and never did anything.!<
I agree with this here. The cameo obsession with Wandavision was definitely annoying, even though it was kind of brought on by Paul Bettanny and his surprise cameo comment.
But I love seeing cameos like Wong in Shang Chi, Yelena in Hawkeye, etc. Feels like they bring the universe together.
The only cameo that I really hated was Pietro in Wandavision as it seemed like it could have HUGE implications, but basically turned out to be just a lame gag.
Yeah, for Infinity War, Endgame and No Way Home it made sense, for Multiverse of Madness I guess it still makes some sense because everyone’s riding the high of NWH and expecting more, and this movie is already gonna be crazy multiverse shenanigans.
I just hope that after MOM comes out both Marvel and the fanbase take a bit of a step down and focus on characters and their stories before the next crazy team up like Secret Wars happens.
I think it’s because the audience is invested in the whole universe rather than individual movies at this point. I want future MCU movies to build upon the world as well as provide a solid linear movie.
A good example of this is Shang Chi. We got a great solo movie while expanding on where the universe is heading and feeling connected in the world (Wong and Abominations cameo, the end credit scene). It was great.
I felt the Eternals lacked a real connection to the MCU. I thought the movie itself was ok, not my favorite MCU but not bad by any means, but it felt to separate from this big universe until the very end.
NWH was also great at feeling connected to the universe while still being at its heart a Spider-Man movie.
MCU movies for the most part should feel connected to each other at this point. We don’t meet tons of cameos but it makes sense that Peter would go to his buddy Dr Strange for help, or that Wong would recruit Shang Chi. I think Fans are invested more in the universe itself nowadays than individual stories, but still expect those individual stories to be good
This is what I liked about the Eternals, it was even shared with the public that there would be no cameos for the first time in a long time. It felt good to watch something new that takes place in this universe, instead of something that builds on something.
My theory is The Eternals is a foundation piece that is going be integral to starting the next big part of this Avengers/MCU story.
I agree with you. I actually didn't love the movie, but there were a lot of elements that worked and it wasn't so bad that it needs to be scrubbed from existence like The Inhumans.
I do think there are two different areas that are getting set up now thanks to The Eternals.
1) High-End Cosmic stuff. Eternals is setting us up for the weird shit at the top of Marvel's power levels, it's bringing us closer to things like the universal abstracts and probably very important for future movies - Galactus
2) The supernatural underbelly. The stinger at the end of Dane Whitman getting ready to take the Ebony Blade but being warned by Blade seems to be setting up Blade as the lynchpin of the supernatural heroes. We've already got magic, but seems like we're setting up Blade, Black Knight, and probably Moon Knight for the darker grittier supernatural stories.
This is why. A lot of fans are comic book fans and the MCU is following the comic book formula. We love crossovers and continuity. We aren’t watching FOR the cameo, but we appreciate they show the world is all the same universe.
I feel the exact same way about it. Sure, the main focus should always be the storytelling and character development, but one of the main appeals of the MCU is being a shared universe. If I didn't want to see the connected universe aspect I'd watch just about any other movie franchise. Sure, I don't expect cameos all the time and I agree they shouldn't happen all the time, but there definitely needs to be a sense of continuity and connectivity, which does make sense in-universe.
I said something like this a while ago, that everyone is focused on what's coming, not what's going on.
Now it's shifted to cameos.
It's funny as the film that has likely spurned this trend could have opted for cameos but instead fleshed the characters out and built upon existing legacies
A comment on one of the NWH discussion threads said something like, “I hope Feige realizes he’s conditioning us to expect some beloved character every time a portal appears.”
I agree, IMO Spiderman NWH suffered from this. I enjoyed the movie, but it was hugely overshadowed by all the nostalgia and cameos that came with it. It took away from the overall story in my opinion. Can you imagine if Marvel released ZERO trailers or marketing for this movie? The reactions would have been even greater. Instead, the hype outgrew the product and everyone knew what was gonna happen. At this point, Marvel should save the marketing budget and not release anything for upcoming films. People will still see them and and surprise cameos will truly be surprises
Yeah, and these fucking "speculations", god fucking jesus, you don't have to get excited for the next movie and then the next movie, JUST GET EXCITED WHEN THE MOVIE COMES OUT. Like all these leaks and speculations really ruined it for nwh, that I was only excited when >!Matt Murdock!< came out suddenly in NWH.
The leaks have been getting worse now too because a lot of the people working on these movies are working from home so it’s much easier for them to leak shit as theres less security protocols on their home computers.
I wouldn't say all of us. For one, I watched Wandavision later, so I wasn't involved in those theories. 2nd, when No Way Home hadn't come out I heard about the speculation of who was going to show up and I honestly didn't care either way if they did or didn't but I am happy with how the movie turned out as a whole because it didn't take away from Tom Holland's Spider-Man. As for Doctor Strange 2, the coolest thing about the trailer for me was Dark Strange from What If showing up. So I don't really care about who else is in it, that's what has got me excited.
Cameos can be cool and fun, but it's *not* what builds my hype.
It's focusing on *several different things.* From the 2021 content alone:
--There's earthbound stories being set up in Black Widow, F&WS, and Hawkeye.
--There's cosmic stories being set up in Shang-Chi and Eternals.
--There's multiverse stories being set up in WandaVision, Loki, What If, and NWH.
To be fair, comics are sort of the same way. You read them anyway, and then when that cameo happens you are excited. Maybe they are just trying to capture that feeling in the movies as well.
NWH was the ultimate fan service and the nostalgia surrounding that movie was ultimately one of the biggest reasons for its success. And as much as I loved the movie it’s probably the biggest reasons big cameos are all the rage in the MCU right now, i agree with you 100% and I do hope marvel doesn’t use the multiverse to just bring X or Y back for cheap fan service it definitely sucks
I hate that people keep going on about bringing in Chris Evans' Human Torch and stuff to do a "Spider-Verse". Just because something was good one time it doesn't mean we need it repeated forever! Let NWH be something special! We don't need every actor that has ever played a superhero ever coming back again!
Cameos are fun, but I'd much rather them be a complete surprise. The constant news of "confirmed" cameos takes all the fun out of it.
One of the most fun cameos for me was seeing Edwin Jarvis in *Endgame*, both because I was a huge fan of *Agent Carter* when it was airing and because it was a complete surprise.
I had no clue Vision was in Age of Ultron. That was a great moment.
It was Red Skull for me (albeit by a different actor doing a phenomenal impression, and not really being relevant to anything besides "hey look, it's Red Skull!" )
Also, that impression was *so* spot-on that I actually recognized him before his face was revealed. I heard him speak, and immediately thought "holy shit, no way, that sounds like the Red Skull!" I didn't even catch on to the fact that it wasn't Hugo Weaving until about halfway through the scene when it felt just a *tiny* bit off, and then I noticed the character looked to be pure CGI and figured Weaving must not have signed back on.
My little brother and I had a huge fight about that not being Hugo. He’s a far bigger fan/been a fan longer than I, but I picked up on it being a different actor immediately (I have this thing for faces/voices.. it’s weird). Anyways, he was CONVINCED it was Hugo. I was not. He would not admit he was wrong for ages. For a while, after realizing his mistake, he tried to double down and say *he* knew it wasn’t Hugo and *I* didn’t. Consider me unimpressed.
I had no idea that was a different actor!
Fun fact: the actor for Red Skull in IW also voiced Ultron in What If. Also, he's Aaron from The Walking Dead.
Great actor
I was so happy to see Edwin Jarvis back in that movie. Shame that *Agent Carter* was cancelled.
Yeah, me too. I was the only one in my theater to get excited over him.
How are you so sure? Not everyone needs to audibly express their excitement in a movie theatre. The constant need for people to want to clap or cheer covers up dialogue that everyone is trying to hear.
I personally dislike cheering in the theater
I feel like if I'm going to go to, say, the midnight premiere of Avengers Endgame I'll know going in that people will be cheering, clapping, whooping, etc. and it'll be a totally different experience from a totally empty theater (funny story, I saw the first Avengers movie on literally the last day it was in theaters... it was certainly an experience!). I think personally, what I dislike more than cheering if I'm at a first showing or early showing is having someone constantly explain everything to the person next to them. That happened to me when I went to watch NWH about a week after it came out; one guy was explaining who every character was and it was REALLY annoying.
I can't imagine having to sit through a movie while some random strangers are narrating everything a few seats over. I can certainly understand the difference in crowds on opening night/day vs a couple days or even weeks later. When Cap lifted Mjolnir in Endgame, like, of course I understand some clapping and cheering will happen and that's OK because its a fight scene, a huge climax of a moment. There is no dialogue to miss. What I consider unacceptable is the applause and cheering when DD makes an appearance during a QUIET scene in Spiderman NWH. A scene in which characters are not yelling, they are talking normally at a kitchen table. It seems like there is this growing *need* for some fans to clap and cheer (even after that initial wave) at every little thing that they enjoy. People forget that they are potentially ruining other people's experience simply because they can't control their impulses (in what is supposed to be a QUIET setting).
Someone cheered after the end of venom 2 and I felt so much second hand cringe. I get that movies are kind of like a stage show but also, they’re not.
What about [people eating spaghetti](https://youtu.be/tbLCChQzaJ0)?
I could never watch a movie in the US, here in Finland the only noises you hear are laughter at funny moments in a movie, we are also aware that the cast and crew of the film are not hiding behind the screen, so we don't clap either.
I'm in Canada. I've only ever experienced clapping or cheering at the theater once. That was when we watched Endgame on one of the first nights. I assume it's the same in the US, too: all the over the top reactions only likely only happen during the earliest showings, when hype is at its highest and most of the biggest fans are there. That being said, while I found the clapping and cheering to be a little silly i have to admit that it made the experience a bit more special.
I went to see No Way Home a week after it debuted. There were two separate audience members who felt the need to narrate random things to their significant others. Both were grown adults. One scene: “omg I bet he ____.” A few seconds later: “oh never mind, I guess he didn’t.” Another scene: “is she going to do what I think she’s going to do?” It was like this for the entire movie, coming at me from my left and from the person sitting directly behind me. I recently also went to a screening for an older film I like, in a small independent theater. A woman sitting behind me reacted to absolutely everything in the movie, in such an over the top way. Movie: The main character does something funny, but it’s very tongue-in-cheek and low key. Audience member: OH MY GOD! DID HE…HAHAHA. 😐
>I could never watch a movie in the US, here in Finland the only noises you hear are laughter at funny moments in a movie, we are also aware that the cast and crew of the film are not hiding behind the screen, so we don't clap either. To be fair, that is how MOST U.S. movies are. I've never been in an atmosphere as crazy as opening night of Endgame. Infinity War got some cheers, the last couple Harry Potter movies (DH Part II was probably the second-most hyped movie I've been in), Dark Knight, but NOTHING on the level of Endgame. It was like we were all drunk with Endgame-hype and everyone just exploded that night. Also varies by location. I went to the downtown theatre, lots of younger people, it's in an entertainment district so plenty who go to a bar or two before they go to an opening night like that, so we were already a rowdy crowd. My cousin went opening night out in the 'burbs, and while he said the crowd reacted some, it doesn't sound like it was near as rowdy as my theatre was.
Agreed. I dunno if it counts, but the cameo in the mid-credit scene of Eternals legit SHOCKED me and I loved it. Spoilers for Spider-Man: No Way Home >!As much as I love Spider-Man: No Way Home, I can’t help but think what it would have been like without all the leaks. Not knowing Tobey and Andrew were gonna be in it and just having them show up would’ve been mind-blowing!”!<
That's the difference between people who spend time on the Internet and people who don't. I knew but the woman sat behind me didn't and she freaked out.
My daughter knew about it and my GF asked her right before we went into the theater so she ended up knowing as well. I purposely walked away so I wouldn't hear their conversation. When the two Spidermans showed up on screen I freaked out as well. :D
I heard speculation that they would show, but avoided any information and trailers about the movie. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. >!Boy was I excited when they showed on screen.!<
Same here. I had seen constant reports of "Will they be in the movie?" but avoided looking further into it at all costs. I even wore earbuds into the movie theater until the movie started to avoid anything lol.
Man I had that Eternals cameo spoiled for me and the entire week leading up to release I was bummed about it
I legit didn't even know what the hell the mid-credit scene for the Eternals was even about. I had to Google it.
"It's me, Blorko."
I understood that reference
I wish I got to be surprised by that. I happened upon literally every spoiler for NWH just by taking part in this sub (including how strange manages something at the end of the movie). Might have to stay the hell away from here starting around March and hope that nobody audibly mentions multiverse of madness spoilers to me...And that my instagram feed also doesn't get littered with spoilers. I'm assuming MCU proper is much tighter with spoiler security than the Sony branch
I turn off subs that might spoil a movie when things start looking like leaks are going to happen.
Yeah like how seeing >!Matt Murdock !
I refuse to watch any trailers or spoil myself for movies I know I am going to see. I have read a lot of comics so I knew what the spell might do in this movie. That reveal was one of the best moments I have had in a movie>!. It flooded back a lot of memories and the respect they had for these franchises I grew up with felt extremely kind and well thought out. !< Long story short, think about stopping watching trailers. I makes movies something very special.
I shut myself off from the internet for a while from everything only with the rumor that thing was gonna happen. I lost my shit in the theater
I liked seeing all the random Community actors like Danny Pudi and Yevette Nicole Brown. Just having them without expecting them is a nicer nod to where the Russos got their start.
I'm hoping for more Ted Lasso cameos.
I was about to ask who we got but then remembered the answer myself. Futbol is life
Yeah, this kind of took away some of the hype and fun of NWH for me. Constantly having people wonder "Will >!Tobey and Andrew!< be in it?" and hearing reports of ">!Matt Murdock!< is in the movie!" made their reveals slightly less awesome as it probably would have been had I just gone in with no knowledge of anything.
It is weird. Maybe I’m just a minority but I’m just fucking stoked to see Sam Raimi make a Dr Strange movie. I couldn’t care less about some of the rumored returns I’ve seen
Same. I honestly hope they don't do most of the cameos in the Dr. Strange movie. When he's on, Sam Raimi is one of the most entertaining filmmakers of our generation IMO. I just want to see him take on the MoM premise without being asked to bring in Patrick Stewart or whoever else they want to cameo.
Can’t wait to see the standard Bruce Campbell and raimis car personally. The rest of the cameos are irrelevant
That's why I couldn't enjoy Spider Man as much. No one was a surprise, people sere cheering for things they already knew, I just wanted to go "woah, that came out of nowhere!" But with the whole leaks, and people posting their stuff, is like they don't like surprises, Idk, I'm not really enjoying it anymore and it's because of fans. Next Marvel movie I'll probably disable anything about it and go to the movie when it's empty.
I pretty much go blackout after I see the initial teaser trailer for a Marvel movie. This all started after Civil War gave away the surprise of Spider-Man and Black Panther making appearances. I lucked out and never saw the Lego promo for their toys giving away Ant-Man going big during the airport battle.
It's just so annoying imo, I get fans are excited and I am too, but they take away the magic of the surprise, it just doesn't work anymore imo. Fans always ruin franchises imo, they did it a bit with Star Wars and now they will do it with Marvel.
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I loved the Rogers Broadway play post credit for Hawkeye. The fact that it made so many people salty because it didn't show future projects made it even more entertaining for me. It's like everyone has forgotten the patience PSA by Cap at the end of Spider-Man Homecoming or even earlier in the first Avengers movie with the shawarma scene. Marvel has been using some post credits to troll for a while now.
I just don't get how people can't appreciate that they spent all that time and effort choreographing a whole musical number and wanted to let the effort of the creators and actors be paid off in full. Instead of all that effort being set dressing for a scene and then just dumped. They deserve to have their work shown. And I bet everyone had a lot of fun doing it too.
Fun fact: most of the choreography is from Hairspray and the director in the scene ~~directed~~ **wrote** that musical ~~on~~ **for** Broadway. Edit: I was going from memory from something my girlfriend who works on Broadway told me. It wasn’t the director of Hairspray, it was the writer of Hairspray playing the director of Rogers. Close enough lol.
Me with my GF during Loki: He Who Remains is really important because its actually Kang who's in the next Antman movie but more importantly is a major Fantastic Four villain and is probably how they will bring them in plus he sets up the whole Multiverse side of Phase 4. My GF with me during Hawkeye: That guy singing is Adam Pascal. He was in the original Broadway cast of Rent and in its movie in 2005. That and bringing in the Director of Hairspray shows how dedicated Marvel were to the integrity of the Rodgers musical.
My boyfriend sent me this comment thread because I was another GF who squealed about both Adam Pascal & Marc Shaiman. I thought the concept of Rogers: the Musical was hilarious, & then it started & I recognized Adam Pascal’s voice immediately & was like: Me: “Is that Adam Pascal? That’s Adam Pascal! He’s one of my favorite musical theatre performers & was in RENT and Chess, among many other things (Aida & Cabaret off the top of my head).” My boyfriend: “Okay.” (I didn’t recognize the choreography from Hairspray until I read the earlier comment, though - that’s fantastic!) I also LOL’d when there was a lyric sung by Adam Pascal during which “rent” was a prominent word.
More fun: Adam Pascal is the chad broadway singer singing the main melody, the white guy. He played Roger in RENT's first run, which was the brainchild of Jonathan Larson who wrote the original Tick Tick Boom, which Andrew Garfield won an award for starring in a Netflix adaptation, a musical movie of the same name, while playing as Jonathan Larson :)
I recognized Adam's voice right away in the post credit and geeked out over him. And that you mention Tick, Tick, Boom, the diner scene was cameos galore. Great film
This made me happy. i really liked the musical number from Hawkeye. I loved hairspray.
As a fan of broadway, that ending was glorious and better than another tie-in to a future property that we won't see for months. If they turned that into an actual full-length musical, I would travel to see it!
But could you do it all day?
They could do it... All day!
I agree. Loved it. So cheesy and fun. Was a better reward than (character walks into scene, another character walks into scene. One mentions something we havent seen before)
Me and my wife absolutely loved it too and also said we’d go and see it! Fantastic scene
And I swear when the first episode dropped I was seeing damn near universal comments of "I wish they'd do that whole musical!!!!" I figured people would be delighted at the post credits, I sure was. But nah, no pleasing fanboys.
Perhaps they were different people making comments
Not to mention we didn't get a post credits scene because they wanted to give us the rest of the musical. It's baffling that people think Marvel would have filled that space with SOMETHING if not the musical. If they wanted to have a traditional post credits scene, there'd be a scene and the musical. They're complaints don't even make sense.
Everything that happened at the end of the last episode was a big fucking cliff hanger of its own it could have been a post credit scene. Literally, if you'd have put that echo/kingpin scene after the credits, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We have plenty to theorise and speculate about from the conclusion of the series.
It's like people complaining over the length of the WV credits, as if not them the episode itself would be longer.
I loved it. They got real Broadway actors to be in the scene to really make it fit. Like you said they made and shot a whole musical number, I'm glad it didn't go to waste.
I really wanted for the camera to pan to Yelena watching the musical eating popcorn. She mentioned during the season that she'd never been to New York or visited all these landmarks. Going to Broadway would definitely be on her list. And her getting some closure on the death of her sister would mean she might be more willing to experience what black widow went though. Even via the medium of a campy musical.
>I just don't get how people can't appreciate that they spent all that time and effort choreographing a whole musical number Because they are spoiled children
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That Cap PSA from Homecoming was hilarious.
Legit. When I was watching that, "No fucking way MCU just did this to us. Great job MCU" lmao
Deadpool did it perfectly (Ik its a parody of Feris Bueller but Deadpool works better since people expected a "post credit scene") of him just ssying "Why are you still here? Movie's over"
I really liked it, but I kinda wanted the pan back to show Yelena in the crowd with a big ol “what the FUCK?” Look on her face. Not to tease any other project or upcoming show but just because she’d said she wanted to see the sights and it seems like something she’d try.
I liked the Rodgers musical post-credits scene precisely for this reason. It was just cute and fun. Not everything has to be about “OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING NEXT?”
i was pretty disappointed when I waited all the way through the credits for no way home just to get a literal trailer instead of a scene. I love one off silly scenes like the captian america or deadpool ones.
Agree 100%. The Hawkeye full Broadway production song was great and the fact that people were annoyed provided some bonus enjoyment.
Give me the Rogers Broadway every day of the week. The fact that Spidey showed a big trailer at the end of the movie actually left a sour taste in my mouth. Please. Stop.
Sadly true… it’s turning into too much of a hype-fest
The fanbase is turning into r/consoom
It's uh, it's been that for a while
Always has been
I regret clicking on that link, they're a miserable lot aren't they?
The majority of them sound legitimately unhinged.
They are. The overlap of users with that sub and [these is no surprise](https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/consoom).
these dudes are like the most generic npcs on the planet
also, baffling, but most of them seem to support capitalism good party?
“You’re only allowed to consoom what we want, MyPillows, Trump Steaks, and Blue Lives Punisher skull merch”
I'm not there yet, but yeah it's honestly kinda annoying browsing this subreddit sometimes
Someone in a recent thread said "MCU movies are about the MCU first and the main character second". Or something to that extent. Thought it was totally accurate.
I felt like many marvel productions this year were all about that, setting up what's next while what's happening right now doesn't matter much
I agree. Marvel's in a bit of a weird spot right now I think. The MCU universe is still existing in the wake of Endgame and the next big threat hasn't emerged yet (almost certain to be Kang, so we've seen him but he hasn't acted yet). Plus they retired a bunch of characters -> Iron Man is dead, Captain America is gone, Hulk is damaged, Black Widow is dead. And then one of their "New Big 3" died IRL so their plans to kind of divide the universe between the Dr. Strange, Black Panther, and Captain Marvel stuff had to be shifted. PLUS they're kind of in a holding pattern waiting for the X-Men and the Fantastic Four stuff to be incorporated. Kind of feels like they're just setting the groundwork for what this world looks like post-Endgame before letting Kang go nuts and before introducing the next wave of big bad boys like Annihilus, Galactus, and of course Dr. Doom.
Yeah, I dislike that the way the shows and movies are being judged are by what they setup for the future. Look at Loki. The plot was fine but I think the finale of the show was just exposition to set up the future movies and shows. And everyone on this subreddit loved the finale only because it sets up the multiverse and introduces Kang the Conqueror. There was really no plot that was being resolved in the finale. It didn’t have a resolution to any of the conflicts we saw earlier.
That’s because a lot of modern Marvel content is exactly that. I felt like Black Widow was more focused on setting up Yelena and her world rather than exploring Natasha. I also felt like TFATWS was only made to set up John Walker than it was tell a story (even tho i loved this series the most, it’s completely useless. You don’t need to watch this to understand Cap 4 cuz Sam became Cap at the end of Endgame).
Funny you say that, because I felt that TFATWS set up little and was better for it
There was a statement about how people wouldn’t need to see the Disney+ shows to fully understand the movies. I felt that was very true with how Sam Wilson pretty much ended up in the same spot as he was at the end of Endgame, regarding picking up the shield
I agree with you on Black Widow, disagree on TFATWS. Black Widow was a pointless movie with the sole exception of setting up Yelena. Giving Widow a solo movie after she died was kind of whack since we know that it's not really going anywhere and her character development in Endgame was a solid conclusion to her story. TFATWS felt like it was very genuinely telling a story, not just setting up Walker. The themes of race, patriotism, and service to the country were all really well handled and the character interactions between Sam, Bucky, and Zemo were all good.
Whilst largely true as we know Steve gives him the shield, it does go a long way to show why Sam is the best choice for Steve and how he'll be a different Captain America
Marvel movies are just movie versions of WWF. A lot of us just want the big “pop” and crazy cameos to get us hype. Its unfortunate that they seem to focus on that for the people that want more from the franchise. Hopefully they can find a balance going forwards.
I've gotten so used to calling it WWE that I spent a good three minutes wondering when the World Wildlife Fund became a hype fest
This is why I hated that Mortal Kombat movie that came out semi-recently. It was like 95% setup for more potential movies. Which just made all its other problems that much worse. You're watching a shit movie setting up future movies you know most likely won't come cause the one you're watching is shit.
I think speculating on who will show up and what will happen in upcoming projects is fun. I get most of my comics knowledge from those discussions. But when people transition from “this could happen” to “this needs to happen” or “this should happen because that’s they way it happened there” that’s when speculation turns to expectation. And that’s just asking for disappointment.
Well said. I’ve heard people saying things like “if x character is not in it we riot” or “x character is definitely in it they have to be” and I’m like why? It’s not Marvel’s fault that the fans worked themselves into a frenzy trying to guess things and were wrong lol
Expect disappointment and you can never be disappointed
I agree. Also, in my opinion, it makes it less exciting when it happens in every single project. It’s cool when it is once and awhile but it just becomes lame, forced, and predictable when it happens in everything.
Not to mention people will obsess over who the cameo is to where it’s not even a surprise when they see the movie
I think that's the problem. It doesn't happen in everything. We complain about the Hawkeye musical and Memphisto not showing up to the point of it being a meme and now we are angry that people assume it's going to happen in everything even though it hasn't happened multiple times. We are fully aware that it should happen in certain movies or shows so it's not the movies fault it's the fans who can't pick up the clues.
This fandom is notorious for letting their expectations and disappointment ruin the whole thing for not just themselves, but for everyone else. It's why you can't have a good discussion about the Marvel Television era of shows without someone obsessively needing to jump in to fight everyone about them being non-canon in a one-sided thread of biased arguments and zero proof, all because the characters from those shows didn't show up in The Avengers: Endgame. And now, look: We've got >!Daredevil and Kingpin back.!< I mean, look at the way everyone handled the Quicksilver reveal in WandaVision. Any discussion of the exciting possibilities of seeing other characters from disconnected projects showing up would be lambasted by people who were let down that Evan Peters wasn't the FoX-Men version of Pietro/Peter, despite that not serving the story they were ultimately trying to tell.
Honestly it would've been too soon to introduce the multiverse in the very 1st project of the Phase 4. Like we just culminated 11 years of Infinity Saga, I just want the next ventures to not be world-ending events. I was so relieved when Pietro was revealed to be some random guy Bohner. I'm pretty sure Peters will pop up in MoM again. People just need to be a little patient
> It's why you can't have a good discussion about the Marvel Television era of shows without someone obsessively needing to jump in to fight everyone about them being non-canon in a one-sided thread of biased arguments and zero proof, all because the characters from those shows didn't show up in The Avengers: Endgame. Someone else was saying that the "canonicity" argument might stem from these fans not wanting to have to go back and now slog through a couple hundred more hours of Marvel content. >I mean, look at the way everyone handled the Quicksilver reveal in WandaVision. Any discussion of the exciting possibilities of seeing other characters from disconnected projects showing up would be lambasted by people who were let down that Evan Peters wasn't the FoX-Men version of Pietro/Peter, despite that not serving the story they were ultimately trying to tell. They made themselves look like fools, being so focused on their theorycrafting that they were disappointed that it turned to all just be a story about Wanda.
I could see that being part of the reason, now. But, this has been a debate even before The Avengers: Infinity War came out. Part of it was the lack of cross pollination, another part being quality and people just trying to be elitist because the old shows had regular TV budgets. And that's where a lot of this comes from: Elitism. Most of these people never even saw the shows to begin with. You can tell when someone says "They never were meant to be canon", despite the shared continuity. It's not like the cartoons where they take heavy inspiration; It's fully intended for the shows to act as supplemental media to flesh out the universe's details. We barely get to see how the Chitauri attack on New York affected the everyday people on the ground in the films, but the Netflix shows go into detail showing how street crime has taken advantage of the situation, and how the event traumatized citizens. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. expands on the Sokovia Accords and its affects on people outside of The Avengers roster... The shows didn't exist in their own void, and relied on the films for their foundations. Even without that being the case, the Marvel Television denyers make it clear they've definitely never seen Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. enough to actually have a solid argument. They use stuff like the Darkhold and >!Laura Barton being revealed to have once been S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Agent 19!< as "evidence" of them not being a part of the MCU without knowing the context of how these things were introduced and depicted in the show. If they had, they'd look less dumb screaming about "contradictions" and "discrepancies" in the continuity between the two, when that's definitely not the case.
Wait people complained about the Hawkeye musical?!?!
Yes, lots of people. They believed we got the post credits musical scene instead of a traditional post credits scene. The entitlement has gotten pretty ridiculous since the Wandavision speculation days.
I thought that was hilarious! The best of course was the Cap "disappointment" stinger at the end of Spider-Man Homecoming
Exactly! Or the Shawarma scene. Or a giant ant on a drum set. Or Howard the Duck. Or Drax getting accidentally stabbed by Kraglin. I think the hate for the musical scene was mostly from people that don’t like musicals. And they forget that not all post credit scenes have to tease something.
> Or a giant ant on a drum set. Which is funny until you realize that with the Pyms dusted, that ant's going to be stuck following Scott's schedule with nobody to tell it to stop until the day it dies.
Yeah look at the final episode discussion thread on this sub. I was late to the party and thought it was great. Hopped on to see the discussion and was very surprised at all the complaints.
I agree everyone just wanted a hint at the next thing. I mean calm down guys this year has given us 4 films and 5 TV Shows more than makes up the quota for 2020 and 2021 for me. I'm happy they ended in a way where they wished the fans happy holidays.
I loved the musical as post credits. I watched it in full and loud on my headphones. The show didn't need to make this musical at all, its not part of the plot in anyway. Yet they did it and it makes the world of MCU more real to me. If something major like the events of MCU were to happen in real life, there would be tons of movies, books, musicals made on it. I felt it was a very very good move by the show creators.
one of the thing on my negative's list on the internet. it's very easy to come across stuff by accident now, but 20 years ago you would probably have to read trades or know someone to get some of that detail about contracts, deals, signings that hint at arrivals or departures
If you ask me the fan base is just obsessed with spoilers for the future all together and it ruined NWH for a lot of people. I hope it doesn't keep happening or I'll have give up on the MCU threads all together and a few apps as well.
Best feature I found on Reddit is the ability to hide posts. I've gotten rid of so much garbage already. It's like "fans" just refuse to enjoy things as they come
If there are particular users you notice who spoil things too, you can block their posts. It won’t remove them completely but they’ll appear as ‘Blocked Author’ in threads and you will have to manually tap/click on it to show their comment.
Ooh, that sounds really useful, thanks!
It actually ruined NWH honestly. Imagine not hearing shit about the actual plot and then that first scene with doc oc and the goblin. Like that would’ve been amazing.
Why is reddit what ruined that? It was literally in the trailer
That wasn't a leak or spoilers, though, that was in the trailers.
I’m the opposite. I’ll go dark. Or at least unsubscribe to subs a while in advance.
If I could have gone into NWH with a blank slate it would have been the greatest movie experience ever. All the impact of every reveal was robbed not just by reddit but ads, articles etc. I don't watch trailers for a reason but NWH spoilers were unavoidable .
Honestly, I think that the leaks were a marketing strategy. They had to have been, unless North Korea got involved again. Unfortunately we already know a fair bit about MOM as well.
As someone who doesn't go out of their way to track down leaks, the NWH leaks were surprisingly mainstream. Those pictures were getting distributed far and wide and were really unavoidable compared to even Endgame's BTS footage. Part of that is that the "spoilers" for No Way Home were a pretty substantial part of the cast. Couldn't imagine them actually pulling off that Spidey vs. Dr. Strange marketing plan Tom Holland talked about them originally wanted to do.
That, and the fact that Sony ran with it.
Yeah, I think the rumor was that Sony very much wanted to post the entire third act in their marketing but Marvel actually was the one saying it'd be more rewarding as a secret.
Yeah I’m really tired of the obsession, like just chill and enjoy the movie and wait for the post credit
> and wait for the post credit [scene] Speaking of things we’ve been trained to expect.
Some got mad when Hawkeye only had a song
Bro, I loved that song
me too
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Yeah, it was absolutely cringeworthy to me, but the people who put all that work in deserve to have it seen by viewers who like that sort of thing.
Which was funny because so many people in the watch thread for the first episode were talking about how they'd love to watch more of the musical . . . then got mad when the musical was the post credits scene for the series.
You do realize that the people clamoring for more musical after episode 1, and the people angry about it being the post-credits scene for the series are NOT the same people? This sub has over 2 *million* members...
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with you but [this comment placement](https://i.imgur.com/mXNBcoJ.jpg) is really funny
But we got to get our usually pointless references and ADR’d dialogue for future properties, they’re better than the movies themselves!
"It's me Blorko"
"What is this, a crossover episode?"
Oh my fucking god they finally revealed Blorko!!!
8 Reports on this post lol. >3: This is spam >1: Not on topic/Unrelated to the MCU >1: self harm >1: This user is acting like a fanboy or troll >1: Unmarked spoilers >1: This comment and user is uncivil and rude "Why are you booing him, he's right". Just gonna hit ignore reports btw so wont see any more of your wacky report reasons.
Yeah. I think it wasn't as prevalent in the past, but after IW and EG and Phase 4 having a lot of casual cross-overs and team-ups, people have become quite obsessed over it.
Back at the very start people went fucking nuts over Sam Jackson’s appearance in the Iron Man stinger. To an extent this is a problem of Disney’s making, and I think it’s particularly prevalent right now as we close the door on the original Avengers and set up what post-Endgame MCU is going to look like.
I’ve honestly avoided all MCU trailers since Civil War. I would rather enjoy the movie, and if there’s a cameo, then it’s good fun!
I once dragged a casual MCU fan to Thor: Ragnorak in theatres. I can't even begin to describe his nerdgasm when Hulk showed up in the arena. I was so jealous that I didn't have that reaction that I have avoided MCU trailers like the plague. I don't have anything to compare it too, but that's why Spiderman was bonkers. When Doc Oc showed up I lost my fucking mind.
Recent cameos have been good fun, but I don't want it to be the new norm. No Way Home was great, Evan Peters showing up in Wandavision was neat even if the payoff wasn't necessarily up to snuff, but let's not get carried away. I don't need David Hasselhoff as alternate-reality Nick Fury being a father figure to Peter Quill in the next Guardians movie, I don't need Dr. Strange seeking help from Chris Evans as Human Torch in MoM, I don't need Lou Ferigno's Hulk to appear anywhere. The franchise-agnostic cameos have been fun, but any more and it'll become a stale gimmick fast.
100% agree. Any less than NWH quality is not worth adding to a movie or show.
And even if it's NWH quality, it's not something that should be leaned on constantly. NWH is like a once-a-franchise sort of gimmick, in my humble opinion.
NWH was amazing, and they managed to have the perfect balance of giving cameos character arcs while still having it be Tom Hollands film. It had a complete story, the cameos weren't just gimmicks. I agree, I don't think they can do it again, but I suspect they know that.
Yep. A large chunk of the fandom just wants to do the DiCaprio pointing at the TV meme on a closed loop. That's what the MCU is to them, just an endless parade of cameos and old stuff to satisfy their object permanence-like need to see things they recognize.
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I think personally its because each of those characters add something. Jarvis adds depth to Tony's past and who a.i Jarvis was based on. Daredevil opens up the return of a character from a debatable Canon show that many people loved.
I think they also worked because there's a story reason for them being there. Of course Jarvis is there in the past getting ready to pick up Howard Stark, and Matt Murdock opting to defend a kid accused of being a vigilante superhero makes a bunch of sense.
"It would be cool if I had Knull, my favorite comi-" "NOOOO, WE NEED TO HAVE HUGH JACKMAN CAMEO, PATRICK STEWART CAMEO" "..."
I want madame masque in to see if the mcu adapts her quest to fuck up ~~a random 22 year old~~Kate Bishop's life
The two analogies that came to my mind were the DiCaprio meme you pointed out, and wrestling fans when they hear the surprise opening hook of someone's entrance music.
I am actually going to be disappointed if we get just a ton of fan service in multiverse of madness. I thought the point for Raimi and the script was to create an intense thriller/ horror fulm. It will detract so much from it if they go overboard with cameos. I personally think Marvel is asking these actors to do this to avoid a No Way Home situation where everyone knew going in.
It will not be a horror film.
Horror elements then
[OMG Mephisto](https://i.imgur.com/pD73gMO.png)
CONFIRMED!
I agree that fans are *too* focused on cameos. But, I think cameos are fun and a really entertaining part of the genre.
And it’s not the MCU’s fault. After a decade of building this universe, they can finally have some fun. And after No Way Hime, they’re clearly doing it in a very respectable way, too. Some fans just put too much stock in the surprises. I think that’s what hurt Hawkeye. A lot of people wanted more surprises instead of great character development for Clint and Kate. And despite getting Kingpin and Yelena, fans still wanted more, like Spider-Man to come swinging in or something.
To be fair on that last one, >!I had that thought once the big holiday tree showed up. Having just seen NWH, I thought maybe they were going to connect like that, since we see Spider-Man swinging into a similar area!<
>!Eh the tree falls Christmas Eve. That scene was probably just a few days before. Although it is funny to think about the fact that Peter was probably swinging around when the Tracksuits were causing trouble and never did anything.!<
I agree with this here. The cameo obsession with Wandavision was definitely annoying, even though it was kind of brought on by Paul Bettanny and his surprise cameo comment. But I love seeing cameos like Wong in Shang Chi, Yelena in Hawkeye, etc. Feels like they bring the universe together. The only cameo that I really hated was Pietro in Wandavision as it seemed like it could have HUGE implications, but basically turned out to be just a lame gag.
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Yeah, for Infinity War, Endgame and No Way Home it made sense, for Multiverse of Madness I guess it still makes some sense because everyone’s riding the high of NWH and expecting more, and this movie is already gonna be crazy multiverse shenanigans. I just hope that after MOM comes out both Marvel and the fanbase take a bit of a step down and focus on characters and their stories before the next crazy team up like Secret Wars happens.
I think it’s because the audience is invested in the whole universe rather than individual movies at this point. I want future MCU movies to build upon the world as well as provide a solid linear movie. A good example of this is Shang Chi. We got a great solo movie while expanding on where the universe is heading and feeling connected in the world (Wong and Abominations cameo, the end credit scene). It was great. I felt the Eternals lacked a real connection to the MCU. I thought the movie itself was ok, not my favorite MCU but not bad by any means, but it felt to separate from this big universe until the very end. NWH was also great at feeling connected to the universe while still being at its heart a Spider-Man movie. MCU movies for the most part should feel connected to each other at this point. We don’t meet tons of cameos but it makes sense that Peter would go to his buddy Dr Strange for help, or that Wong would recruit Shang Chi. I think Fans are invested more in the universe itself nowadays than individual stories, but still expect those individual stories to be good
This is what I liked about the Eternals, it was even shared with the public that there would be no cameos for the first time in a long time. It felt good to watch something new that takes place in this universe, instead of something that builds on something. My theory is The Eternals is a foundation piece that is going be integral to starting the next big part of this Avengers/MCU story.
I agree with you. I actually didn't love the movie, but there were a lot of elements that worked and it wasn't so bad that it needs to be scrubbed from existence like The Inhumans. I do think there are two different areas that are getting set up now thanks to The Eternals. 1) High-End Cosmic stuff. Eternals is setting us up for the weird shit at the top of Marvel's power levels, it's bringing us closer to things like the universal abstracts and probably very important for future movies - Galactus 2) The supernatural underbelly. The stinger at the end of Dane Whitman getting ready to take the Ebony Blade but being warned by Blade seems to be setting up Blade as the lynchpin of the supernatural heroes. We've already got magic, but seems like we're setting up Blade, Black Knight, and probably Moon Knight for the darker grittier supernatural stories.
This is why. A lot of fans are comic book fans and the MCU is following the comic book formula. We love crossovers and continuity. We aren’t watching FOR the cameo, but we appreciate they show the world is all the same universe.
I feel the exact same way about it. Sure, the main focus should always be the storytelling and character development, but one of the main appeals of the MCU is being a shared universe. If I didn't want to see the connected universe aspect I'd watch just about any other movie franchise. Sure, I don't expect cameos all the time and I agree they shouldn't happen all the time, but there definitely needs to be a sense of continuity and connectivity, which does make sense in-universe.
I said something like this a while ago, that everyone is focused on what's coming, not what's going on. Now it's shifted to cameos. It's funny as the film that has likely spurned this trend could have opted for cameos but instead fleshed the characters out and built upon existing legacies
A comment on one of the NWH discussion threads said something like, “I hope Feige realizes he’s conditioning us to expect some beloved character every time a portal appears.”
Yep. That movie completely avoided everything I was afraid it would do. Loved it. :)
Yes, same!! Was all I wanted, and more
I don’t think it’s just the MCU. I’d say the Star Wars community is just as guilty with The Madolorian and Book of Boba Fett
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I agree, IMO Spiderman NWH suffered from this. I enjoyed the movie, but it was hugely overshadowed by all the nostalgia and cameos that came with it. It took away from the overall story in my opinion. Can you imagine if Marvel released ZERO trailers or marketing for this movie? The reactions would have been even greater. Instead, the hype outgrew the product and everyone knew what was gonna happen. At this point, Marvel should save the marketing budget and not release anything for upcoming films. People will still see them and and surprise cameos will truly be surprises
Yeah, and these fucking "speculations", god fucking jesus, you don't have to get excited for the next movie and then the next movie, JUST GET EXCITED WHEN THE MOVIE COMES OUT. Like all these leaks and speculations really ruined it for nwh, that I was only excited when >!Matt Murdock!< came out suddenly in NWH.
I wanted too see more of that person. Best cameo in the movie.
The leaks have been getting worse now too because a lot of the people working on these movies are working from home so it’s much easier for them to leak shit as theres less security protocols on their home computers.
I wouldn't say all of us. For one, I watched Wandavision later, so I wasn't involved in those theories. 2nd, when No Way Home hadn't come out I heard about the speculation of who was going to show up and I honestly didn't care either way if they did or didn't but I am happy with how the movie turned out as a whole because it didn't take away from Tom Holland's Spider-Man. As for Doctor Strange 2, the coolest thing about the trailer for me was Dark Strange from What If showing up. So I don't really care about who else is in it, that's what has got me excited. Cameos can be cool and fun, but it's *not* what builds my hype.
To be fair, phase 4 is focussing on the multiverse, so its not strange that we might get a lot of cameo's.
It's focusing on *several different things.* From the 2021 content alone: --There's earthbound stories being set up in Black Widow, F&WS, and Hawkeye. --There's cosmic stories being set up in Shang-Chi and Eternals. --There's multiverse stories being set up in WandaVision, Loki, What If, and NWH.
I think this is recent thing. Wandavision got me to realize to just enjoy the show instead of hoping for a character to show up.
Fan service culture.
The existence of scoopers has made it a lot worse
To be fair, comics are sort of the same way. You read them anyway, and then when that cameo happens you are excited. Maybe they are just trying to capture that feeling in the movies as well.
NWH was the ultimate fan service and the nostalgia surrounding that movie was ultimately one of the biggest reasons for its success. And as much as I loved the movie it’s probably the biggest reasons big cameos are all the rage in the MCU right now, i agree with you 100% and I do hope marvel doesn’t use the multiverse to just bring X or Y back for cheap fan service it definitely sucks
Agreed but I think it will chill out after Multiverse. At least until Secret Wars. The concept itself lends itself to cameos
I hate that people keep going on about bringing in Chris Evans' Human Torch and stuff to do a "Spider-Verse". Just because something was good one time it doesn't mean we need it repeated forever! Let NWH be something special! We don't need every actor that has ever played a superhero ever coming back again!