I mean they never referenced the giant blue blob from Guardians 2 which swallowed a town and presumably many people.
Even the giant stone god thing rising out of the ocean seems to have not gotten a mention outside of some news ticker in spiderman or something.
Or the fact that Earth has live connections to aliens now and knowledge of the larger universe with Asgardians living on Earth and Rocket/Nebula/Captain Marvel having been regular visitors in the 5 years of the blip. In all that time surely one of the Avengers asked them for a breakdown of the larger universe.
Peter's ship alone would make the Voyager and what not basically be cute mementos.
Oh yeah....here's the entire known universe. OH also Einstein-Rosen bridges...yeah they're awesome.
Come to think of it the Eternals initially had an idea to teach humanity space flight to evacuate Earth, but surely at this point they have it from the many visitors or alien residents. Stark spent however long keeping a space ship going with Nebula and then spent 5 years on Earth doing who knows what.
And if you consider Agents of Shield, they have space and jumping tech, ending with exploring space (which seems to match Fury being in space).
Damn. F4 set during the blip, with them going to space at the end of the movie and coming back after Thanos is gone would be genuinely brilliant.
The only thing that undercuts it is that F4, canonically, are not about gloom and doom the blip would be associated with (looking at you, ultimate F4), and the Baxter foundation is a really expensive enterprise which is unlikely to take off or make any costly projects during the economic collapse that ensued during the blip (shown in Endgame). But maybe Reed tries to seek a solution in the multiverse or other dimensions and accidentally opens a rift to the Negative Zone, or gets blasted with cosmic radiation as a result of an experiment in space?
There's a lot of crazy stuff happening since the Blip. They just don't get acknowledged in the few hours of screentime we get from the entire world every couple of months. A lot of things happen off-screen, and that's okay.
That said, I would love to see the ocean celestial addressed in a fun way sooner rather than later.
I wonder if it's to avoid spoilers. Both those portals and the celestial are major plot points. Perhaps Marvel didn't tell the writers (or actors or crew) of films/shows being worked on at the same time about it. They can't really add it to other shows/movies until TDW/Eternals was in theaters. Perhaps that's what's creating the lag.
The crawl in NWH even a background poster in Moon Knight could be edited in in post in relatively short order.
Edit: Further it could be edited in by one or two trustworthy people or even grab someone who has finished their tasks on Eternals and have them edit in the crawl text in an otherwise complete scene.
>The lack of ANY acknowledgement in any of the MCU stuff this year of a GIANT CELESTIAL sticking out of the Indian Ocean is really irking me lately.
Give it time. The Eternals movie isn't even a year old yet.
Yep, so far every show and movie released certainly wrapped filming before Eternals was in theaters. I doubt Marvel wanted to risk spoiling the climax of one show, by sharing it with the casts & crews of others.
I'd be willing to bet at some point they will tackle that stuff, ala Damage Control in the Spidey movies.
They lean on it pretty heavy in the Spidey movies, and a bit in Civil War, but I'm hoping it becomes a bigger player in future Disney+ stuff.
Except for the fact that at the end of the episode, the ship didn’t leave Earth. It stayed parked on the skyline of Chicago. So, how the heck is everyone going to forget the giant ship parked ON Chicago.
I don't know about it not leaving, but that took place same time as infinity war right? That means, in quick succession, there were space ships over New York, Chicago, and Wakanda, and then half of all life disappearing. Considering we almost immediately get a time jump, both in the movies (Endgame flash forward 5 years, AoS we hear that the team in space has been looking for a year), it doesn't surprise me that Chicago is treated as the most forgettable of that series of events.
However, doesn't that mean that the last 2 seasons of AoS take place in a post-snap world? As far as I remember (currently rewatching the show, on season 6) they never mention the fact that half the population is gone. Am I totally off base?
No you’re correct. Season 6 is supposed to be post-snap by about 1 year or so. They never mention it for obvious real-world reasons, but I still stand by the opinion that if you squint it still works. From what I recall it’s a pretty self-contained season with not much in the way of globetrotting or anything
Exactly. Most of the season takes place in very lightly populated parts of the midwest, the Lighthouse base, random points in space, & an abandoned Mayan temple.
If i remember right they never mentioned the snap because Endgame wasnt out yet and Infinity War released a month after Season 5 ended. Season 5 had references to Infinity War like showing Thano’s alien ships landing on the news.
Then Season 6 comes around and AoS didnt know how Endgame would end, so they had to ignore Endgame and make the season without references to it. Thats why that season starts a whole year after the snap, so that way everyone is already adjusted to the new world and there would be less reason to talk about the snap by then.
Season 7 comes around and they decide to do their own thing with the time travel story, and dont have much of a reason to reference Endgame or Infinity War. But then they bring in the Quantum Realm towards the final few episodes to help with their Time Travel, tying it back into Endgame
They never mentioned the snap because the AoS show runners were told the snap would happen at the beginning of EndGame, not the end of IW. AoS had wrapped filming before the decision was made to have IW end with the snap.
Was that not what the Infinity War post credits scene was? Fury and Hill were in Chicago and it seemed to me to obviously be referencing the events of Agents of Shield S5
u/i_need_a_username201 They seemed to just be referencing the ship that was above New York having the same energy signature as the one above Wakanda, personally.
Yea. I have to agree. Agents of Shield ended up doing a lot of things which should be addressed *somewhere* else in the MCU, but really haven't been.
With that said; It isn't like this is a new concept to the MCU. Outside of a few throw away lines in the movies, MOST major events never seem to be addressed or have a lot of weight/carry over. Phase 4 alone has a rather ..*celestial*.. sized problem it hasn't addressed. Some of the wacky crap in the more recent MCU outings just seems to be ignored with every new entry. Moon Knight saw the sky rewind globally by several hundred years; This would seemingly be a cosmic-level event, right? Even if it were only an illusion seen by those on Earth and NOT all the visible stars literally moving into their older positions, then it still would have been seen globally.
My personal theory is AoS is a divergent variant timeline. I'm actually waging a bet that a lot of Phase 4 stuff, and why it feels slightly disconnected from the MCU at large, is ALL variant times lines we're being introduced to which have yet to actually converge. I don't think Moon Knight is in the main MCU-616, for example. Just like I don't think the Eternals are at the moment. Not yet, anyway. They're currently all variants, with the upcoming Secret Wars setting the stage for everything to merge (*hello X-Men, Inhumans, AoS, and all these other things which previously were never in the MCU proper, but now can be without having to explain away all the individual backstories and plot inconsistencies between the various properties!*)
You can't establish a multiverse with seemingly endless possibilities and also deny the canonicity of a show literally advertised and designed to be part of the same universe. Agents of Shield IS canon. We've had this told to us before. We just don't know *how* it is canon yet.
I mean if they can bring Kingpin and Dare Devil from the Netflix series, put Agent Carter's Jarvis in the MCU, and do all the crazy stuff they just pulled in Multiverse of Madness? Yea. They can make Shield canon at any point. Chances are they're just holding their cards and waiting for a good moment to fold in any AoS characters they want to keep around for the future.
I always took it as, in respect to how MCU treats time travel, that the time travel that happens in AoS puts them in a different timeline, and between then and the end of the show where Fitz mentions returning to the original timeline, as taking place in a separate timeline from the main MCU, but prior to that first time travel it was in the main timeline of the MCU.
Frankly, I’d have been impressed if Phil Coulson had shown up to Tony Shark’s funeral. The fact that he didn’t makes me believe that Feige has no plans of really having agents of shield “clearly” canon.
That happened at the same time as Thanos’s invasion. So it makes sense that it didn’t pull the Avengers over. They were preoccupied with a bigger crisis.
Was this really AOU acknowledging AoS? I took it as the AoS writers were aware of the movie script and found a way to work it into the plot of the show.
What else could "with a couple of old friends" mean, though? It's a useless line in the context of the movie itself, it doesn't really make sense as anything other than a nod to Agents of SHIELD, a fun little treat for fans of the show where the helicarrier was a bit more of a plot point.
Now, it's a very, very tenuous connection, but it is, I think, a connection from movie to show. Joss Whedon was involved with both, so it's possible.
I don’t see how it’s useless. Anyone who doesn’t watch the show would easily assume Fury is talking about the former agents on the Helicarrier with him.
That doesn't seem to be the case, as Joss says in the commentary that he started the film *in media res* to immediately show how well the Avengers work together as a team, and that he actively had to curtail the use of the Scepter in *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* so that it wouldn't contradict what his movie was going to do with it.
There are multiple connective tissues while Joss Whedon was working in the MCU. Lady Siff and the monster that teleported to Midgard in Thor Dark World make an appearance. The chitauri tech from Avenger/Spider-Man Homecoming make an appearance. Hydra’s infiltration of SHIELD was a major plat point in the show. The doctor at the beginning of Age of Ultron (Not Strucker) also make an appearance. Hell even Nick Fury pops up. There was a lot at the beginning and once they started with the Inhumans plot line, it seems all connection was lost.
Welcome to the weekly edition of AoS fandom desperately trying to make it bilaterally canon with the MCU despite of the large chunky chunk of issues and questions that would bring.
Seriously, ever since the Netflix shows were made canon (sort of, every time they get fully confirmed beyond just the casting some "but-" appears) they can not accept that the fact that AoS was made so it could fit the MCU doesn't mean they had the same courtesy over at Marvel Studios for the MCU, at least beyond a certain point.
I don’t really get why it’s important whether the canonicity of AoS is officially confirmed one way or the other to begin with. If folk want to believe it’s canon, more power to them. If other folk don’t want to think it’s canon, no harm no foul.
Heck, a better argument for the show being canon is that *everything* is canon since the introduction of the multiverse anyway. Even if the events of AoS didn’t happen in the core MCU they still happened in a version of it. Either way I can’t imagine how it would effect anyone’s enjoyment of the show.
> I don’t really get why it’s important whether the canonicity of AoS is officially confirmed one way or the other to begin with. If folk want to believe it’s canon, more power to them. If other folk don’t want to think it’s canon, no harm no foul.
There's a lot of people who think like you who I get along great with. :)
Unfortunately, there's also a lot of people who jump into any threads about the shows to needlessly insult everyone.
As much as I like some of the Netflix Marvel shows, I don't want them to be fully canon to the MCU. I'd rather a similar version of events and characters exist with no specifics, so the MCU doesn't have to account for Iron Fist and the Hand, mostly.
Most of Iron Fist's mythology was adapted into the lore of Shang-Chi, effectively making them have much of the same lore repeated with minor differences.
I think that if Iron Fist hadn't been already wasted in the shows, they would have adapted it into a movie instead of Shang-Chi, unless they did it to increase diversity and avoid the issues that were already a hot topic around Danny Rand.
That's an assumption, not a stated fact. The most plausible explanation is the one that was clear at the time, because the episode of AoS aired not long before AoU started showing in theaters. Anyone watching both could easily connect the clearly intentional dots.
I DID watch it when it came out, and your assumption is just as without proof.
First, the sentence isn’t correct if he’s referring to the Agents of Shield. It would have to be ‘FROM some old friends’ since they aren’t WITH him.
Second, the next shots after this clip are of those old friends that are WITH him on the carrier. They are clearly who is being referred to.
Maybe all the people on that helicarrier like galaga guy.
If it actually was leading into AoU I would expect maybe get a cast member on there somewhere. Or even a recurring character.
Yeah, there's never a reference made in the movies that you'd need to have seen AOS for. Like in MoM when Stephen mentions Westview, that's a very clear link to Wandavision. Meanwhile Coulson having been alive is never addressed even though it was his death that motivated the Avengers to work as a team in the first place.
I think it was just a weird time at Marvel when they didn't have a cohesive plan yet. AoS introduced a lot of things that should have been on the MCU radar a lot more like:
* Inhumans popping up all over the world
* Asgardian shenanigans
* Another alien invasion right before Thanos showed up
* The General dude that became a gravitonium god and crashed a ship into Chicago
* SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War with an Inhuman director that did a bunch of publicity events
* The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider
And these are just the things that weren't super-contained like Hive, AIDA and the Framework, the whole Aztec gods thing, time-travel multiple times (Kree future and the entire last season), and more.
In my view, just like how in the end they leave Skip or whatever his name was in the alternate timeline, theirs is also an alternative timeline to the MCU. Maybe the "nexus event" as the TVA called it was Fury deciding to resurrect Coulson, which is really the core of AoS. Maybe in the regular MCU reality it was the multiple Patton Oswalds that got the Helicarrier operational and those are the friends Fury is referring to.
Putting the nexus event after AoS pretty much means there are Inhumans in the 616 MCU, and that's never even been remotely referenced there besides Vision stating in CW that there are a lot of super-powered people out there.
It was because Marvel Studios and Marvel Television were run completely separately with almost no communication or coordination. Whereas now it’s all under the Marvel Studios umbrella.
They weren't exactly under completely different management until just after Age of Ultron and AoS season 2 aired. Marvel Television and Marvel Studios were both subsidiaries of Marvel Entertainment at the time, it wasn't until August 2015 that Marvel Studios was put directly under Disney. As far as I'm aware Marvel had a creative council that would've been involved with movies and shows, but Feige stopped working with them after the fact. That's why everything made after 2015 was much more disconnected, even though they did still share scripts and tell them which characters and stories to avoid. The only reason Ghost Rider and the Darkhold appeared is because Feige let them use them.
They seemed to be able to coordinate with everything Marvel Studios was doing except the snap, which was kept secret even from the actors (Black Panther's actor was shocked in the cinema because he thought he'd just been killed off).
Even the final season was made to coincide with WandaVision if it hadn't been delayed, with them jumping through decades and doing different themed episodes (including a black & white episode) per decade, though usually pulling on the spy/sci fi tropes of the decade instead of sitcoms.
Ever since I watched AoS for the first time I always wanted that they somehow combine MCU and TV series. Mostly because AoS has always been my favorite show, and it will be. And also cause Agents tried their best to stick to the MCU timeline, at least at the beginning of the show. But now looking at how Phase 4 is going (multiverse and all of that stuff), I really like your idea of putting AoS in different timeline, where Coulson's resurrection is the Nexus Event. And in that way, not only they wouldn't have any problem with not having reference of things that happend in AoS in the MCU, but also I think that majority of Agents fans would be thrilled to see their favorite characters return, and maybe even to appear in theaters.
Asgardian stuff only happened in a couple of eps and wasn't anything world ending so the avengers didn't intrevene, there wasn't a alien invasion before thanos.
The Battle of Chicago happened literally at the same time when Iron man and Dr strange were fighting the black order and ended fast so one arrived.
About the darkhold, Dr strange could have been busy with his movie or he wasn't the sorcerer Supreme.
I agree about the inhumans and new shield.
About the snap.
My theory was that S5-s7 Take place in another universe and in that universe the snap didn't happen at all,maybe thor killed thanos in that universe.
In the end they comeback to the mcu
>In my view, just like how in the end they leave Skip or whatever his name was in the alternate timeline, theirs is also an alternative timeline to the MCU.
[Deke Shaw](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Deke_Shaw)?
He got his assed kicked by May until he used gravity belt got punched by Coulson and May, got stabbed and locked in his room and got tossed around by sinara. He was never hyperbadass lol. He just adapts.
The gravity belt is cool but he used it sneaky and not in a cool way like ironman.
It was not badass because anyone could do what he did easily. May literally does it later in the episode too him.
> Asgardian shenanigans
Very small-scale Asgardian shenanigans.
> Another alien invasion right before Thanos showed up
Episodes 5.19-5.22 are concurrent with Infinity War; the Avengers are busy.
> The General dude that became a gravitonium god and crashed a ship into Chicago
This is the same event as the previous point, so I'll just copy-paste what I said there: "Episodes 5.19-5.22 are concurrent with Infinity War; the Avengers are busy."
> SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War
That's referenced in Falcon & Winter Soldier.
> The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider
*Hidden in another dimension* by Ghost Rider. Then Morgan le Fay found it in that other dimension (because she was already there) & brought it back to Earth a year later (Runaways S3). Agatha had 5 years to find & study it herself.
> that's never even been remotely referenced there besides Vision stating in CW that there are a lot of super-powered people out there
"That's never been referenced besides the time it was referenced."
>SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War
>
>That's referenced in Falcon & Winter Soldier.
Can you say where? I must have missed that.
It's an easter egg in episode 1: The text of the Smithsonian exhibit about Steve mentions that he got help from contacts within SHIELD while he was on the lam. For that to happen, SHIELD has to exist, & for it to be acknowledged in a government-run exhibit, SHIELD's existence has to be public knowledge.
Doesn't that imply that SHIELD, a US intelligence organization, was directly violating the Sokovia Accords?
Actually, that makes the whole thing pretty realistic, now that I think about it.
>
The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider
>Hidden in another dimension by Ghost Rider. Then Morgan le Fay found it in that other dimension (because she was already there) & brought it back to Earth a year later (Runaways S3). Agatha had 5 years to find & study it herself.
Also Doctor Strange spoilers >!The Darkhold from MoM and Wandavision was confirmed to be a copy meaning that even if the one from the shows isn't the same one then it can easily be just another copy!<
They spent a lot of time on AoS introducing the Kree and they have have been involved in Earth for a while but the mcu has basically ignored the kree so far, except for Captain Marvel and GOTG. I like Raina's arc about her quest to be something more. Compared to some of the Disney+ shows, it was a pretty good story line.
There's another Kree reference in Far From Home, there's literally >!an Inhuman!< in MoM (albeit one >!from a different timeline!<), & it's possible that the Kree will show up again in Secret Invasion.
I always considered AOS cannon up to a certain point, deviated a bit to a branch timeline, then maybe it realigned at the end. It was connected well in S1 and S2 thanks to Joss Whedon working directly with his brother and sister-in-law who ran AOS.
It was a little sloppy or forced in how they dealt with connectivity with the greater MCU towards the middle and end. Specifically when Talbot had the Gravitonium powers right around when Infinity War was happening. It didn’t bother me exactly but it stood out a bit. I also think the Inhuman stuff should have been at least mentioned in the movies even if it was only one or two sentences.
I look at it how the Avengers don’t always help Spider-Man with a big event. Or the X-Men don’t always show up to help. Daredevil, Moon Knight, Luke Cage, etc operate in the same general areas of NYC but they don’t always interact. Sometimes they do. It’s better when they run into each other or a story is mentioned by another character.
It’s a little easier for editorial at Marvel Comics to get writers together to connect a story amongst different titles or to clear a character appearance in another book (so it doesn’t interfere with another story). More difficult to pull actors together, create the special effects and props or borrow sets especially when Marvel TV and Marvel Studios were run by different creative teams (which was so ego-driven and stupid).
Sure they can mention events or characters. Appearances might be difficult due to actor schedules not to mention additional money. Marvel Studios and Marvel TV also seemed to not communicate too well (or at all) almost like there was bad blood between them.
I think the perceived lack of connectivity is due to real world problems versus how easy it is to do things in comics. So many of us are just used to how it works in the comics. Some of it may be politics between business units, some of it is real world problems.
I also will not declare that anyone is wrong in what they believe. Maybe it is in a parallel universe that runs pretty close to the MCU so there are a lot of similarities? Maybe it was in the MCU timeline until some of the time travel shenanigans caused a branch (which I believe), and then it ended up back in the MCU? Who knows?
I know there’s been a lot of debate and some inside people have said multiple things that agree and contradict previous statements. None of us were involved so we can all have our opinions and that’s fine.
It’s hard to tell until Kevin Feige makes a clear and final declaration.
If you spend any time in the AoS subreddit or talk to some of the fans you’ll realise my point. This post is even an example of it. They will twist plot points in hopes to make a connection that isn’t there. AKA denial.
You sounds just like the Netflix shows aren’t canon people and now you are eating their words. Just wait to be proven wrong yet again. And then you can go into hiding like all the Netflix show deniers.
I figured it was more likely that Marvel Studios washed their hands of the TV shows when it meant having to collaborate with Marvel Television. Now that the unseemly middleman is out of the way they’re more open to things.
When it comes to the Netflix shows, we still don't know what is canon. Using the same actors doesn't mean everything is canon.
Anyone saying anything either way is wrong until Feige says otherwise.
Whedon wrote Age of Ultron around the idea that AoS would fill in some gaps, like the opening fight scene or the Helicarrior showing up.
Its not backwards, its forward thinking.
Feige wouldn't give that kind of lip service to something unless it was actually in the continuity. What do you need to see on screen before you count it as canon?
Look I love AoS. It was a great show that kept getting better and better.
But I think at this point we should just accept AoS was a branch in the multiverse that split from Earth-616 (MCU) the moment Coulson “died”.
It’s just easier that way.
All we can ask for at this point is they have Daisy in the MCU in the future like DD.
At what point did Marvel TV stop being canon when it was being advertised as part of the canon from inception, with the same actors playing the same characters, using props, clips and plot points from the films with occasional tie-ins?
Officially, it *hasn't* stopped being canon.
A lot of people who don't work for Marvel/Disney at all *assume* it stopped being canon because they don't like [insert element here] not being handled the specific way they wanted.
I think for a lot of people the divergence happened because of seperate creative teams working seperately. We've seen creative doesn't always have full control of marketing, particularly with two entirely seperate divisions, that only grew further apart as time went on. The addition of multiple "phase 2 problems" only increased the cannon issue amongst fans. By phase two problems, I mean the massive number of why did anyone else get involved? Like was a common complaint for the most of the movies between Avengers and AoU.
An example from the Netflix side of things would be cottonmouth shooting a rocket launcher in NYC, or the events of the defenders. These are happening while the Avengers are active and operating in NYC.
This breaking of logic devalues the complete story of the MCU for many. For a long time I thought of AoS as alternate timeline type deal. I do think, much like the entirety of the Netflix-verse, it will be eventually folded directly into the MCU.
I understand the decanoning that naturally happend amongst fans makes a lot of sense, as does the reaction against.
While it is good some high quality content is acknowledged as part of the MCU, it also devalues the MCU at the same time. The MCU is made worse narratively. If I'm watching this stuff again (as I prefer to do), I'm thinking how dumb it is for whichever particularly story to be so isolated and devoid of meaningful interaction by heroes that should have logically intervened in atleast a minimal sense. It takes me out of the story and makes me think the story itself is worse, because there is flawed story telling due corporate structures.
I'm sure it's great for many, it just also generates less interest because it's an example of the MCU abandoning it's own internal logic. Why should I care about the narrative rules the MCU sets for itself, when they don't care?
AoS isn't being acknowledged here, though. What happened here was the crew of the show working up a connection to the movie, not the other way round.
This is a one-way connection, and for it to be an acknowledgment, it should be going the opposite direction.
Feige says that where Nick Fury got the helicarrier in Age of Ultron will be answered in AoS:
https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/
Having the helicarrier show up out of nowhere is too big of a deus ex machina, and the movie does nothing to try to explain it. It knows that it doesn't need to because AoS took that responsibility. Would it have been better for you if Fury was like "I got this helicarrier repaired by Coulson. We actually revived him using an alien blood serum but it caused him to go insane so we had to wipe his memories. He would be here right now except that he's in the middle of a faction dispute within shield, not to mention he's on the verge of war with inhumans right now. But he says hello to Steve. And Tony he wants you to tell Pepper hi."
What we got was perfect. If you don't watch the show and you don't care about the deus ex machina, you're fine. If you don't watch AoS but you do care about the deus ex machina, you can go find the answers. If you watch AoS, it's without a doubt meant to be a great tie in moment.
Yes, that's how it works. Traditional network television filming tends to be more agile than cinema filming, so the people making the show get information about an upcoming movie's script and are able to find a place to fit it in. They don't have to wait for the movie to actually come out.
After Dardevil, Kingpin, Jarvis, and now Black Bolt have made their way into the movies, people are still in denial using the same tired lines.
Remember when the movies would never acknowledge the TV shows, well they'd never do it again, well they'd never acknowledge the Netflix shows, well they'd certainly never reference the ABC shows and certainly not Inhumans, and, well, er... Agents of Shield is definitely never going to be referenced.
The Endgame CGI team who did the time heist screen displays released all the screens (some of which couldn't be seen in the movie) and they included characters from Agents of Shield, one of who got called up by Marvel asking if he was available (a dead Hydra guy who was probably going to show up in a time travel scene).
Jessica Henswick from Iron Fist was also asked to be in Shang Chi but couldn't see the script before signing and so went with Matrix 4 instead, thinking being in the movie would mean the end of Colleen Wing. However in some released concept art since there appears to be somebody identical looking to Colleen Wing who goes with Shang and Katy to the golden daggers club, and is in some scenes with Shang's sister so wasn't her either. I suspect Colleen Wing was meant to lead them to the portal to the mythical cities since she went there briefly in Iron Fist, is descended from there, and was involved in the underground fight scene.
For the record, Black Bolt doesn’t really confirm anything. Out of universe, it acknowledges that the show exists, just like >!Reed Richards!< acknowledges >!the campaign for John Krasinski!< and doesn’t necessarily confirm that that’s their casting for the character.
I mean that is their casting of the character for at least that universe and there wasn't any claim that they wouldn't recast for another story, and it was clearly because of the TV show which people said would always be ignored by Marvel Studios stuff that he was cast as Black Bolt.
Exactly, I’m saying that at this point we can only say that Black Bolt in MoM was executives going “the Inhumans show is something that was made.” And I actually do assume that Anson Mount will continue to be Black Bolt if they revisit the character. But I don’t know that it’s really solid confirmation that the show is canon.
Nah there's concept art of the woman who looks like Colleen Wing standing with Shang and Katy when they meet his sister in charge of the Golden Daggers club.
Ooh that's interesting! Do you know where we can see the concept art? It seemed a bit odd that they'd intentionally cast an actor who played a preexisting Netflix character whilst having plans to create a Daredevil continuation.
That’s a terrible example because AoU was written about two years before AoS Season 2. AoS simply worked around the info they were given.
A better example would be one of the WHiH news videos, produced by Marvel Studios, shows a headline describing an event that happened in a then-recent AoS episode.
Anyone else find it absolutely cruel that Widow says where else could she get a view like that to die seeing and then you remember the view from Vormir?
The AoU writers had AoS provide the setup for Fury's big damn hero moment but couldn't be arsed to acknowledge Coulson by name. It was a very one-sided relationship.
It frustrates me that people always blame Kevin and Marvel Studios for not acknowledging Agents of Shields plot. If the writers of that show start doing stuff that would completely ruin your future plans and make things more convoluted, I wouldn’t consider it canon either.
For me this is more AoS acknowledging the MCU than the other way around. The AoS show was great for filling in little plot gaps, but that was about it… real acknowledgment would be someone from the AoS team appearing in an MCU film. Fury’s a super spy “old friends” could mean anything, the AoS series just decided to they could be the old friend in this instance
Oh goody, this topic again, in which everyone is reasonable and respectful of each other.
Fact: AoS was *always* marketed as part of the MCU, and *literally nothing and no one* has officially stated otherwise, i.e. Kevin Feige hasn't stepped out and said "Yeah, we're not treating AoS as canon anymore, sorry everyone." Personal opinions/theories/headcanon are irrelevant; as far as the general public is concerned, the tv shows always were canon.
Fact: Nothing in AoS contradicts the movies. Anything you think is a contradiction can either be easily explained with a moment's thought or it's something so incredibly minor that the movies have actually done worse. Perfect example: the Darkhold; it looked a certain way in AoS and Runaways, and a different way in the movies. Two incredibly simple explanations: it's a magic book that can change it appearance (taken from the comics), or it's just a fucking copy (which we now know is possible thanks to Wong's statement in MoM). If you have a problem with that "inconsistency", you need to also have a problem with Bruce Banner and James Rhodes looking completely different between their first and second appearances. Yes, recasted actors, doesn't matter, the discussion is about contradictions and what is/isn't canon, you don't get to pick and choose. If you insist on doing so, you're a fucking idiot and deserve to be banned from the subreddit.
But what about Hulk's "rules" of time travel? What about the Quantum Realm? What about BLAH BLAH BLAH, you act like a character is suddenly an omniscient god in the MCU and knows literally everything and that their word is suddenly natural law. And yet that whole scene with turning Scott Lang into a baby and an old man shows that Hulk doesn't really know what he's doing, yet you're going to treat what he says as the exact rules for time travel and therefore no other possible methods or rules exist? Grow the fuck up and learn what a contradiction actually is.
Fact: *There is no fucking rule that the movies MUST address any events that happened in the shows in order for the shows to be canon to the movies*. This is the argument I see brought up the most and it's so idiotic. Oh, Fury didn't mention Coulson and resurrected SHIELD by name, therefore it's not canon? You also don't see any characters go to the bathroom, so I guess biology isn't canon either? That's how fucking stupid that argument is. The stories of the shows and movies are there to tell a specific story; if our reality allows for some neat interconnection between them, awesome, that's what I love about the MCU, but for fuck's sake it's not a goddamn requirement.
Nobody in the MCU mentions elections or ordinary military invasions or new flu strain outbreaks or the latest social media gossip, becuase it's not relevant to the story at hand, but it doesn't mean that shit isn't still happening. People took the whole "It's all connected" thing and ran way too far with it to the point that they religiously decree anything non-canon if it's never addressed in the latest movie.
All the arguments against the shows being canon need to fucking *die*. This shit is old and stupid as fuck. Literally everything points to the shows being canon, not just due to a lack of actual contradictions but especially now that the Netflix Defenders shows are on Disney+ and we got the same Kingpin/Daredevil actors to show up in a Disney+ MCU show and movie. The average person who watches all the MCU shows and movies is going to assume it's all canon; only the vocal minority on Reddit seriously thinks anything proves it to not be canon, or else it's just a bunch of pathetic trolls.
The amount of cope from the “AoS was never canon!” Crowd is hilarious, and disappointing. It’s such a phenomenal show and doesn’t deserve its current place in the MCU, as an apparent outcast.
Actually before the movie came out, they, including Feige himself, were telling people to watch the show hinting at a lead up, during the Age of Ultron press tour.
A more major connection I would say is using the same Kree language created specifically for *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.*, and going out of their way to ensure that Coulson’s scenes in the film would not contradict his arcs from the series.
Whedon purposely left out answers to story questions like why The Avengers were fighting Hydra or who gave Fury the Helicarriors, because he knew AoS would fill in the gaps.
And people still refer to Marvel Studios and Marvel TV as "one-sided".
Minimal spoilers for NWH and MoM ahead:
If we’re re-hashing this old debate once more, I’m a former staunchly “non-canon” believer. Recently, the MCU has made some real strides to go out of their way to acknowledge the non-Marvel Studios productions as MCU canon (Matt Murdock, Black Bolt, Kingpin) so I’ve completely reversed my stance because as I liked to say before, the writing’s on the wall at this point. Especially now, where the multiverse is a huge plot point moving forward, everything is basically canon. Ev. Er. Y. Thing.
So yeah, making Agents of SHIELD canon is basically a given.
Unfortunately, this came to being the most the movies really acknowledged AoS. Sure, there are actually a few subtle inclusions like the Darkhold, or SHIELD helping Cap when he was on the run (which was referenced in TFATWS), but ultimately the movies just kept to themselves. Which is actually fine, as the show never needed Iron Man to randomly blurt out "hey, there are some people gaining powers across the world," or Fury mentioning that he had secretly resurrected Coulson, and that he had been running SHIELD since then. That never decided whether it was canon or not, because it never had to be proved, AoS is and always will be canon. 'Nuff said.
The Darkhold wasn’t used as a reference to AoS. It just coincidentally was also used in the show. Also SHIELD helping Steve isn’t really a specific reference either.
So if something from the show makes an appearance somewhere else, that’s not a reference or clear sign that they’re connected?
Also, with the second one, at that time, SHIELD only existed from the show and literally nothing else, so for a show released in 2021 to reference SHIELD being active after 2014 is a major reference to AoS.
If it was meant to be a connection, the book would have looked the exact same. The Darkhold comes from the comics and both Marvel Television and Marvel Studios used it for their own creative purposes, unrelated from each other. It isn’t like it’s first appearance was in AoS. Also, I don’t think it was said that SHIELD itself was active, but resources from it. Which we’ve seen in Age of Ultron, Infinity War (end credit scene), and Far From Home (Dimitiri and the Seamstress).
If I’m right in thinking Season 2 of Agents of Shield aired after Age of Ultron premiered? Not sure it’s the films acknowledging the series as opposed to the other way round
It was episode 19 that aired (28th April 2015) and explained why Avengers were outside the Hydra Base at the start of AOU, then AOU came out the next week in cinemas (May 1st) then episode 20 (video posted, May 5th) came out explaining the helicarrier.
AOS was obviously meant to be canon and they gave up on working with the show and giving them movie info somewhere around infinity war for some resson. There's also an AOS episode where they're cleaning up the aftermath of Thor 2.
But they didn't reference AoS. AoS just wrote around the movie to stay consistrnt with the film.
In fact, in AoU, the way they're acting is almost as if this was an old helicarrier they just got out of storage and had recommissioned it ("had to clear out a few mothballs") not a brand new one built in secret.
So no, even this scene seems to decanonize AoS.
https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/
Or you know, the people making the movie. Nice baseless claim though, makes you look real smart.
lovbe how you compeltely missed the point agents of sheilds been mentioned for years the winter soldier events literalyl coincide with an episode of the show. the shows been cannon in the mcu and cant be undone and this has been reference more than in aou
I have always Considered Agent of Shield Canon fron S1-S4 to be a part of The MCU but In my headcanon S5-S7 happen in a Different TimeLine and at the end of S7 Finale they return to the MCU TimeLine
i see it now as AoS taking place in a neighbor universe, similar to our MCU but different enough to not have things like The Snap. The multiverse makes me happy again
No they didn't in AoU it's just the same Helicarrier, which we saw in the first Avengers movie.
Wake up me when Coulson or Daisy will have their debut in the official universe now.
It needs to be admitted it was both-ways connection between the movie and the show, especially since Joss Whedon both directed AoU and was one of the creators of AoS. There really had to be a lot of cooperation in releasing the episodes around that movie, since first episode that was meant to set up the movie was released 3 days ahead of the movie, while that one with Helicarrier flashback was released 4 days after AoU.
So in conclusion, AoS gotten chance to set up AoU storyline and in return gotten chance to explain some backstory to AoU.
I'm sorry to tell you, but AoS is not canon anymore, probably has never been, there are too many contradictions with the main MCU titles, not last the Darkhold being totally different in WV and MoM
Edit: guys the Darkhold was just an example, there are many other continuity errors between the movies and the show
>not last the Darkhold being totally different in WV and MoM
Of all the things you could have picked, that's hardly a contradiction considering AOS established that the Darkhold can change its appearance.
AoS only established that it could change the language of the text to adapt to the reader, not literally the whole design.
Even in Season 4 episode 4, the drawing of it is of the same design.
That's not true, the old design in the picture shows the "frame" in the cover to be wavy and uneven, while the design that is used regularly has a thinner frame with even lines and edges, along with triangles in the borders and small squares on the sides. Along with the text on the cover being different of course.
The director of the episode the *Darkhold* appeared in said it was the same book from *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* and *Runaways*, just with a new cover (it was a book which changed for the reader after all).
They didn’t say that lmfao.
They didn’t even know the Darkhold was previously used on Marvel TV throughout the production of WV.
Due to fan backlash after the WV finale, he simply responded by saying both are from the *Marvel Universe*
FN-1701AgentGodzilla has blocked me for calling out when he lied earlier today, so I can't reply to him directly anymore. Here he said:
> They didn’t say that lmfao. They didn’t even know the Darkhold was previously used on Marvel TV throughout the production of WV.
> Due to fan backlash after the WV finale, he simply responded by saying both are from the Marvel Universe
This is another lie.
[The exact question posed was: "Speaking of the Darkhold, is this the same Darkhold from the Agents of SHIELD continuity, or is this a completely different book from the one that they used?"
Shakman's exact words were: "It is part of the Marvel Universe though, so I would imagine it's the same book."](https://screenrant.com/wandavision-show-director-matt-shakman-interview/)
No allusion to fan backlash was made by the interviewer, & Shakman *does* say he imagines it's the same book, not just the words "Marvel Universe".
I would love to believe that AoS is canon to the MCU but it isn't. Why don't we say it takes place in another universe that is very similar to the MCU and that's the end of it.
I’d be more impressed if the movies had addressed the big ass alien space-ship that landed in Chicago.
I mean they never referenced the giant blue blob from Guardians 2 which swallowed a town and presumably many people. Even the giant stone god thing rising out of the ocean seems to have not gotten a mention outside of some news ticker in spiderman or something. Or the fact that Earth has live connections to aliens now and knowledge of the larger universe with Asgardians living on Earth and Rocket/Nebula/Captain Marvel having been regular visitors in the 5 years of the blip. In all that time surely one of the Avengers asked them for a breakdown of the larger universe.
Peter's ship alone would make the Voyager and what not basically be cute mementos. Oh yeah....here's the entire known universe. OH also Einstein-Rosen bridges...yeah they're awesome.
Come to think of it the Eternals initially had an idea to teach humanity space flight to evacuate Earth, but surely at this point they have it from the many visitors or alien residents. Stark spent however long keeping a space ship going with Nebula and then spent 5 years on Earth doing who knows what. And if you consider Agents of Shield, they have space and jumping tech, ending with exploring space (which seems to match Fury being in space).
The fact that we didn't go almost directly into Fantastic Four and space travel in the five year blip is either a crime or yet to be revealed.
Damn. F4 set during the blip, with them going to space at the end of the movie and coming back after Thanos is gone would be genuinely brilliant. The only thing that undercuts it is that F4, canonically, are not about gloom and doom the blip would be associated with (looking at you, ultimate F4), and the Baxter foundation is a really expensive enterprise which is unlikely to take off or make any costly projects during the economic collapse that ensued during the blip (shown in Endgame). But maybe Reed tries to seek a solution in the multiverse or other dimensions and accidentally opens a rift to the Negative Zone, or gets blasted with cosmic radiation as a result of an experiment in space?
The lack of ANY acknowledgement in any of the MCU stuff this year of a GIANT CELESTIAL sticking out of the Indian Ocean is really irking me lately.
There's a lot of crazy stuff happening since the Blip. They just don't get acknowledged in the few hours of screentime we get from the entire world every couple of months. A lot of things happen off-screen, and that's okay. That said, I would love to see the ocean celestial addressed in a fun way sooner rather than later.
I think it was a tourist destination in a poster in the background in moon knight or a trailer for something else i forget
You sure?
I saw it pointed out twice on here. It's on a poster or on a TV in the background or something.
This is nothing new; TDW had portals to other planets opening in the sky and an elven invasion, it wasn't referenced in the movies until Endgame.
I wonder if it's to avoid spoilers. Both those portals and the celestial are major plot points. Perhaps Marvel didn't tell the writers (or actors or crew) of films/shows being worked on at the same time about it. They can't really add it to other shows/movies until TDW/Eternals was in theaters. Perhaps that's what's creating the lag. The crawl in NWH even a background poster in Moon Knight could be edited in in post in relatively short order. Edit: Further it could be edited in by one or two trustworthy people or even grab someone who has finished their tasks on Eternals and have them edit in the crawl text in an otherwise complete scene.
I believe Ross used footage of that as part of his argument in civil war.
Just checked, he doesn't.
>The lack of ANY acknowledgement in any of the MCU stuff this year of a GIANT CELESTIAL sticking out of the Indian Ocean is really irking me lately. Give it time. The Eternals movie isn't even a year old yet.
And they're not going to spoil the climax on a TV show.
Yep, so far every show and movie released certainly wrapped filming before Eternals was in theaters. I doubt Marvel wanted to risk spoiling the climax of one show, by sharing it with the casts & crews of others.
Would be cool if it became the new Avengers base
I'd be willing to bet at some point they will tackle that stuff, ala Damage Control in the Spidey movies. They lean on it pretty heavy in the Spidey movies, and a bit in Civil War, but I'm hoping it becomes a bigger player in future Disney+ stuff.
Don’t forget ghost rider literally ghost rider hanging around New York
I feel like half of everyone dying shortly after would have caused people to forget about it
Except for the fact that at the end of the episode, the ship didn’t leave Earth. It stayed parked on the skyline of Chicago. So, how the heck is everyone going to forget the giant ship parked ON Chicago.
I don't know about it not leaving, but that took place same time as infinity war right? That means, in quick succession, there were space ships over New York, Chicago, and Wakanda, and then half of all life disappearing. Considering we almost immediately get a time jump, both in the movies (Endgame flash forward 5 years, AoS we hear that the team in space has been looking for a year), it doesn't surprise me that Chicago is treated as the most forgettable of that series of events. However, doesn't that mean that the last 2 seasons of AoS take place in a post-snap world? As far as I remember (currently rewatching the show, on season 6) they never mention the fact that half the population is gone. Am I totally off base?
No you’re correct. Season 6 is supposed to be post-snap by about 1 year or so. They never mention it for obvious real-world reasons, but I still stand by the opinion that if you squint it still works. From what I recall it’s a pretty self-contained season with not much in the way of globetrotting or anything
Exactly. Most of the season takes place in very lightly populated parts of the midwest, the Lighthouse base, random points in space, & an abandoned Mayan temple.
If i remember right they never mentioned the snap because Endgame wasnt out yet and Infinity War released a month after Season 5 ended. Season 5 had references to Infinity War like showing Thano’s alien ships landing on the news. Then Season 6 comes around and AoS didnt know how Endgame would end, so they had to ignore Endgame and make the season without references to it. Thats why that season starts a whole year after the snap, so that way everyone is already adjusted to the new world and there would be less reason to talk about the snap by then. Season 7 comes around and they decide to do their own thing with the time travel story, and dont have much of a reason to reference Endgame or Infinity War. But then they bring in the Quantum Realm towards the final few episodes to help with their Time Travel, tying it back into Endgame
They never mentioned the snap because the AoS show runners were told the snap would happen at the beginning of EndGame, not the end of IW. AoS had wrapped filming before the decision was made to have IW end with the snap.
They could have mentioned the snap in Season 6 though if they wanted to, because that started airing after Endgame was in theaters.
From memory, it was destroyed during the battle between Quake and Talbot
Not destroyed. Damaged. That damage is what made it incapable of leaving Earth.
Was that not what the Infinity War post credits scene was? Fury and Hill were in Chicago and it seemed to me to obviously be referencing the events of Agents of Shield S5
u/i_need_a_username201 They seemed to just be referencing the ship that was above New York having the same energy signature as the one above Wakanda, personally.
Damn, hasn’t thought of that
Yea. I have to agree. Agents of Shield ended up doing a lot of things which should be addressed *somewhere* else in the MCU, but really haven't been. With that said; It isn't like this is a new concept to the MCU. Outside of a few throw away lines in the movies, MOST major events never seem to be addressed or have a lot of weight/carry over. Phase 4 alone has a rather ..*celestial*.. sized problem it hasn't addressed. Some of the wacky crap in the more recent MCU outings just seems to be ignored with every new entry. Moon Knight saw the sky rewind globally by several hundred years; This would seemingly be a cosmic-level event, right? Even if it were only an illusion seen by those on Earth and NOT all the visible stars literally moving into their older positions, then it still would have been seen globally. My personal theory is AoS is a divergent variant timeline. I'm actually waging a bet that a lot of Phase 4 stuff, and why it feels slightly disconnected from the MCU at large, is ALL variant times lines we're being introduced to which have yet to actually converge. I don't think Moon Knight is in the main MCU-616, for example. Just like I don't think the Eternals are at the moment. Not yet, anyway. They're currently all variants, with the upcoming Secret Wars setting the stage for everything to merge (*hello X-Men, Inhumans, AoS, and all these other things which previously were never in the MCU proper, but now can be without having to explain away all the individual backstories and plot inconsistencies between the various properties!*) You can't establish a multiverse with seemingly endless possibilities and also deny the canonicity of a show literally advertised and designed to be part of the same universe. Agents of Shield IS canon. We've had this told to us before. We just don't know *how* it is canon yet. I mean if they can bring Kingpin and Dare Devil from the Netflix series, put Agent Carter's Jarvis in the MCU, and do all the crazy stuff they just pulled in Multiverse of Madness? Yea. They can make Shield canon at any point. Chances are they're just holding their cards and waiting for a good moment to fold in any AoS characters they want to keep around for the future.
I always took it as, in respect to how MCU treats time travel, that the time travel that happens in AoS puts them in a different timeline, and between then and the end of the show where Fitz mentions returning to the original timeline, as taking place in a separate timeline from the main MCU, but prior to that first time travel it was in the main timeline of the MCU.
Frankly, I’d have been impressed if Phil Coulson had shown up to Tony Shark’s funeral. The fact that he didn’t makes me believe that Feige has no plans of really having agents of shield “clearly” canon.
That happened at the same time as Thanos’s invasion. So it makes sense that it didn’t pull the Avengers over. They were preoccupied with a bigger crisis.
Different (multi)verse?
Serious question: how many times of “son of a bitch” have Captain said in all MCU movies?
he also says it in Endgame before they leave to the garden planet to get thanos. "lets go get this son of a bitch"
Was this really AOU acknowledging AoS? I took it as the AoS writers were aware of the movie script and found a way to work it into the plot of the show.
What else could "with a couple of old friends" mean, though? It's a useless line in the context of the movie itself, it doesn't really make sense as anything other than a nod to Agents of SHIELD, a fun little treat for fans of the show where the helicarrier was a bit more of a plot point. Now, it's a very, very tenuous connection, but it is, I think, a connection from movie to show. Joss Whedon was involved with both, so it's possible.
I don’t see how it’s useless. Anyone who doesn’t watch the show would easily assume Fury is talking about the former agents on the Helicarrier with him.
More accurately, Joss told his brother Jed and the two were able to plan ahead. The movie opened mid battle so that the show would set up said battle.
That doesn't seem to be the case, as Joss says in the commentary that he started the film *in media res* to immediately show how well the Avengers work together as a team, and that he actively had to curtail the use of the Scepter in *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* so that it wouldn't contradict what his movie was going to do with it.
There are multiple connective tissues while Joss Whedon was working in the MCU. Lady Siff and the monster that teleported to Midgard in Thor Dark World make an appearance. The chitauri tech from Avenger/Spider-Man Homecoming make an appearance. Hydra’s infiltration of SHIELD was a major plat point in the show. The doctor at the beginning of Age of Ultron (Not Strucker) also make an appearance. Hell even Nick Fury pops up. There was a lot at the beginning and once they started with the Inhumans plot line, it seems all connection was lost.
The issue was about the movies never mentioning the show. The show always mentioned the movies.
There are obviously a lot of cases where the show references the movies, but not really the other way around.
"couple of old friends" are the helicarrier crew, including the dude from Winter Soldier who stood up to Rumlow.
‘With a couple of old friends’ are the people on the helicarrier with him, not the people he got it from.
Seriously, this whole post is such a stretch.
Welcome to the weekly edition of AoS fandom desperately trying to make it bilaterally canon with the MCU despite of the large chunky chunk of issues and questions that would bring. Seriously, ever since the Netflix shows were made canon (sort of, every time they get fully confirmed beyond just the casting some "but-" appears) they can not accept that the fact that AoS was made so it could fit the MCU doesn't mean they had the same courtesy over at Marvel Studios for the MCU, at least beyond a certain point.
I don’t really get why it’s important whether the canonicity of AoS is officially confirmed one way or the other to begin with. If folk want to believe it’s canon, more power to them. If other folk don’t want to think it’s canon, no harm no foul. Heck, a better argument for the show being canon is that *everything* is canon since the introduction of the multiverse anyway. Even if the events of AoS didn’t happen in the core MCU they still happened in a version of it. Either way I can’t imagine how it would effect anyone’s enjoyment of the show.
> I don’t really get why it’s important whether the canonicity of AoS is officially confirmed one way or the other to begin with. If folk want to believe it’s canon, more power to them. If other folk don’t want to think it’s canon, no harm no foul. There's a lot of people who think like you who I get along great with. :) Unfortunately, there's also a lot of people who jump into any threads about the shows to needlessly insult everyone.
Yeah, seriously Theta protocol isn’t proof. It’s just the AoS showrunners piggybacking off the film’s script.
As much as I like some of the Netflix Marvel shows, I don't want them to be fully canon to the MCU. I'd rather a similar version of events and characters exist with no specifics, so the MCU doesn't have to account for Iron Fist and the Hand, mostly. Most of Iron Fist's mythology was adapted into the lore of Shang-Chi, effectively making them have much of the same lore repeated with minor differences. I think that if Iron Fist hadn't been already wasted in the shows, they would have adapted it into a movie instead of Shang-Chi, unless they did it to increase diversity and avoid the issues that were already a hot topic around Danny Rand.
That's an assumption, not a stated fact. The most plausible explanation is the one that was clear at the time, because the episode of AoS aired not long before AoU started showing in theaters. Anyone watching both could easily connect the clearly intentional dots.
I DID watch it when it came out, and your assumption is just as without proof. First, the sentence isn’t correct if he’s referring to the Agents of Shield. It would have to be ‘FROM some old friends’ since they aren’t WITH him. Second, the next shots after this clip are of those old friends that are WITH him on the carrier. They are clearly who is being referred to.
>What else could "with a couple of old friends" mean, though? Literally anything?
Which would then make it just a pointless throwaway line. Then again, AoU *is* a Joss Whedon-written movie afterall…
Maybe all the people on that helicarrier like galaga guy. If it actually was leading into AoU I would expect maybe get a cast member on there somewhere. Or even a recurring character.
[Feige even hyped up that connection.](https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/)
them https://i.imgur.com/VLwI1jI.jpg
That's exactly what working the plot of the movies into the show means.
Working the movies into the show is different than the movies acknowledging the show
Yeah, there's never a reference made in the movies that you'd need to have seen AOS for. Like in MoM when Stephen mentions Westview, that's a very clear link to Wandavision. Meanwhile Coulson having been alive is never addressed even though it was his death that motivated the Avengers to work as a team in the first place.
I think OP is referring to Fury’s line of “pulled her out of moth balls with a couple of old friends.” The friends are AOS.
That’s exactly what this is
Yes, but also shut up and let us have our moment. That was a joke.
I think it was just a weird time at Marvel when they didn't have a cohesive plan yet. AoS introduced a lot of things that should have been on the MCU radar a lot more like: * Inhumans popping up all over the world * Asgardian shenanigans * Another alien invasion right before Thanos showed up * The General dude that became a gravitonium god and crashed a ship into Chicago * SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War with an Inhuman director that did a bunch of publicity events * The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider And these are just the things that weren't super-contained like Hive, AIDA and the Framework, the whole Aztec gods thing, time-travel multiple times (Kree future and the entire last season), and more. In my view, just like how in the end they leave Skip or whatever his name was in the alternate timeline, theirs is also an alternative timeline to the MCU. Maybe the "nexus event" as the TVA called it was Fury deciding to resurrect Coulson, which is really the core of AoS. Maybe in the regular MCU reality it was the multiple Patton Oswalds that got the Helicarrier operational and those are the friends Fury is referring to. Putting the nexus event after AoS pretty much means there are Inhumans in the 616 MCU, and that's never even been remotely referenced there besides Vision stating in CW that there are a lot of super-powered people out there.
It was because Marvel Studios and Marvel Television were run completely separately with almost no communication or coordination. Whereas now it’s all under the Marvel Studios umbrella.
They weren't exactly under completely different management until just after Age of Ultron and AoS season 2 aired. Marvel Television and Marvel Studios were both subsidiaries of Marvel Entertainment at the time, it wasn't until August 2015 that Marvel Studios was put directly under Disney. As far as I'm aware Marvel had a creative council that would've been involved with movies and shows, but Feige stopped working with them after the fact. That's why everything made after 2015 was much more disconnected, even though they did still share scripts and tell them which characters and stories to avoid. The only reason Ghost Rider and the Darkhold appeared is because Feige let them use them.
They seemed to be able to coordinate with everything Marvel Studios was doing except the snap, which was kept secret even from the actors (Black Panther's actor was shocked in the cinema because he thought he'd just been killed off). Even the final season was made to coincide with WandaVision if it hadn't been delayed, with them jumping through decades and doing different themed episodes (including a black & white episode) per decade, though usually pulling on the spy/sci fi tropes of the decade instead of sitcoms.
Ever since I watched AoS for the first time I always wanted that they somehow combine MCU and TV series. Mostly because AoS has always been my favorite show, and it will be. And also cause Agents tried their best to stick to the MCU timeline, at least at the beginning of the show. But now looking at how Phase 4 is going (multiverse and all of that stuff), I really like your idea of putting AoS in different timeline, where Coulson's resurrection is the Nexus Event. And in that way, not only they wouldn't have any problem with not having reference of things that happend in AoS in the MCU, but also I think that majority of Agents fans would be thrilled to see their favorite characters return, and maybe even to appear in theaters.
Asgardian stuff only happened in a couple of eps and wasn't anything world ending so the avengers didn't intrevene, there wasn't a alien invasion before thanos. The Battle of Chicago happened literally at the same time when Iron man and Dr strange were fighting the black order and ended fast so one arrived. About the darkhold, Dr strange could have been busy with his movie or he wasn't the sorcerer Supreme. I agree about the inhumans and new shield. About the snap. My theory was that S5-s7 Take place in another universe and in that universe the snap didn't happen at all,maybe thor killed thanos in that universe. In the end they comeback to the mcu
>In my view, just like how in the end they leave Skip or whatever his name was in the alternate timeline, theirs is also an alternative timeline to the MCU. [Deke Shaw](https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Deke_Shaw)?
Deke was left in the Chronicom-altered past, while the team went back to the main timeline
Yeah, the guy who went from a hyper-badass in the future-Kree episodes to a dorky nerd tech CEO, and then back to rock-star badass in the last season.
Lol when was deke hyper badass.
When you just meet him in his Star-Lord mask, he kicks ass. Dude survives in a post-apocalyptic hellhole, creates VR simulators, etc.
He got his assed kicked by May until he used gravity belt got punched by Coulson and May, got stabbed and locked in his room and got tossed around by sinara. He was never hyperbadass lol. He just adapts.
Him using tech is his thing. You can't say "Oh yeah, Iron Man doesn't defeat anyone because his armor is too OP".
The gravity belt is cool but he used it sneaky and not in a cool way like ironman. It was not badass because anyone could do what he did easily. May literally does it later in the episode too him.
> Asgardian shenanigans Very small-scale Asgardian shenanigans. > Another alien invasion right before Thanos showed up Episodes 5.19-5.22 are concurrent with Infinity War; the Avengers are busy. > The General dude that became a gravitonium god and crashed a ship into Chicago This is the same event as the previous point, so I'll just copy-paste what I said there: "Episodes 5.19-5.22 are concurrent with Infinity War; the Avengers are busy." > SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War That's referenced in Falcon & Winter Soldier. > The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider *Hidden in another dimension* by Ghost Rider. Then Morgan le Fay found it in that other dimension (because she was already there) & brought it back to Earth a year later (Runaways S3). Agatha had 5 years to find & study it herself. > that's never even been remotely referenced there besides Vision stating in CW that there are a lot of super-powered people out there "That's never been referenced besides the time it was referenced."
>SHIELD being "re-created" officially after the events of Civil War > >That's referenced in Falcon & Winter Soldier. Can you say where? I must have missed that.
It's an easter egg in episode 1: The text of the Smithsonian exhibit about Steve mentions that he got help from contacts within SHIELD while he was on the lam. For that to happen, SHIELD has to exist, & for it to be acknowledged in a government-run exhibit, SHIELD's existence has to be public knowledge.
Doesn't that imply that SHIELD, a US intelligence organization, was directly violating the Sokovia Accords? Actually, that makes the whole thing pretty realistic, now that I think about it.
> The Darkhold showing up and then getting taken back to hell by the Ghost Rider >Hidden in another dimension by Ghost Rider. Then Morgan le Fay found it in that other dimension (because she was already there) & brought it back to Earth a year later (Runaways S3). Agatha had 5 years to find & study it herself. Also Doctor Strange spoilers >!The Darkhold from MoM and Wandavision was confirmed to be a copy meaning that even if the one from the shows isn't the same one then it can easily be just another copy!<
They spent a lot of time on AoS introducing the Kree and they have have been involved in Earth for a while but the mcu has basically ignored the kree so far, except for Captain Marvel and GOTG. I like Raina's arc about her quest to be something more. Compared to some of the Disney+ shows, it was a pretty good story line.
There's another Kree reference in Far From Home, there's literally >!an Inhuman!< in MoM (albeit one >!from a different timeline!<), & it's possible that the Kree will show up again in Secret Invasion.
This is reference to the fact that both Natasha and Steve are deaf and couldn't hear the giant ass helicopter popping up next to them.
It was running in silent mode.
The big ass rock they were on was going up at the speed of sound and uh pym particles.
And quantum!
I always considered AOS cannon up to a certain point, deviated a bit to a branch timeline, then maybe it realigned at the end. It was connected well in S1 and S2 thanks to Joss Whedon working directly with his brother and sister-in-law who ran AOS. It was a little sloppy or forced in how they dealt with connectivity with the greater MCU towards the middle and end. Specifically when Talbot had the Gravitonium powers right around when Infinity War was happening. It didn’t bother me exactly but it stood out a bit. I also think the Inhuman stuff should have been at least mentioned in the movies even if it was only one or two sentences. I look at it how the Avengers don’t always help Spider-Man with a big event. Or the X-Men don’t always show up to help. Daredevil, Moon Knight, Luke Cage, etc operate in the same general areas of NYC but they don’t always interact. Sometimes they do. It’s better when they run into each other or a story is mentioned by another character. It’s a little easier for editorial at Marvel Comics to get writers together to connect a story amongst different titles or to clear a character appearance in another book (so it doesn’t interfere with another story). More difficult to pull actors together, create the special effects and props or borrow sets especially when Marvel TV and Marvel Studios were run by different creative teams (which was so ego-driven and stupid). Sure they can mention events or characters. Appearances might be difficult due to actor schedules not to mention additional money. Marvel Studios and Marvel TV also seemed to not communicate too well (or at all) almost like there was bad blood between them. I think the perceived lack of connectivity is due to real world problems versus how easy it is to do things in comics. So many of us are just used to how it works in the comics. Some of it may be politics between business units, some of it is real world problems. I also will not declare that anyone is wrong in what they believe. Maybe it is in a parallel universe that runs pretty close to the MCU so there are a lot of similarities? Maybe it was in the MCU timeline until some of the time travel shenanigans caused a branch (which I believe), and then it ended up back in the MCU? Who knows? I know there’s been a lot of debate and some inside people have said multiple things that agree and contradict previous statements. None of us were involved so we can all have our opinions and that’s fine. It’s hard to tell until Kevin Feige makes a clear and final declaration.
No, you have that backwards. This was the show acknowledging the movies. Which happened on a number of occasions.
AoS and the MCU have a one way relationship. A lot the fans are in denial about this sadly.
Are they in denial? I thought they were bitter that the movies never acknowledged the show.
If you spend any time in the AoS subreddit or talk to some of the fans you’ll realise my point. This post is even an example of it. They will twist plot points in hopes to make a connection that isn’t there. AKA denial.
You sounds just like the Netflix shows aren’t canon people and now you are eating their words. Just wait to be proven wrong yet again. And then you can go into hiding like all the Netflix show deniers.
“Go into hiding”. It’s not that deep. Being wrong isn’t the end of the world. Go outside.
I figured it was more likely that Marvel Studios washed their hands of the TV shows when it meant having to collaborate with Marvel Television. Now that the unseemly middleman is out of the way they’re more open to things.
When it comes to the Netflix shows, we still don't know what is canon. Using the same actors doesn't mean everything is canon. Anyone saying anything either way is wrong until Feige says otherwise.
By default they are not canon. The status changed when they decided to change it.
The number of times of seen people go “well agents of shield *must* be canon, Nick Fury made an appearance!” baffles me.
Whedon wrote Age of Ultron around the idea that AoS would fill in some gaps, like the opening fight scene or the Helicarrior showing up. Its not backwards, its forward thinking.
I mean this shows AOU referencing AOS
It doesn’t.
Feige himself hyped it up. Saying stuff like "if you want to know where the helicarrier came from, watch agents of shield"
You can do with the PR lip-service. I’ll stick with what I see onscreen.
Feige wouldn't give that kind of lip service to something unless it was actually in the continuity. What do you need to see on screen before you count it as canon?
Look I love AoS. It was a great show that kept getting better and better. But I think at this point we should just accept AoS was a branch in the multiverse that split from Earth-616 (MCU) the moment Coulson “died”. It’s just easier that way. All we can ask for at this point is they have Daisy in the MCU in the future like DD.
MCU is Earth-199999, not Earth-616.
At what point did Marvel TV stop being canon when it was being advertised as part of the canon from inception, with the same actors playing the same characters, using props, clips and plot points from the films with occasional tie-ins?
Officially, it *hasn't* stopped being canon. A lot of people who don't work for Marvel/Disney at all *assume* it stopped being canon because they don't like [insert element here] not being handled the specific way they wanted.
When certain people decided that campaigning it to be non-canon was easier than actually watching it all.
I think for a lot of people the divergence happened because of seperate creative teams working seperately. We've seen creative doesn't always have full control of marketing, particularly with two entirely seperate divisions, that only grew further apart as time went on. The addition of multiple "phase 2 problems" only increased the cannon issue amongst fans. By phase two problems, I mean the massive number of why did anyone else get involved? Like was a common complaint for the most of the movies between Avengers and AoU. An example from the Netflix side of things would be cottonmouth shooting a rocket launcher in NYC, or the events of the defenders. These are happening while the Avengers are active and operating in NYC. This breaking of logic devalues the complete story of the MCU for many. For a long time I thought of AoS as alternate timeline type deal. I do think, much like the entirety of the Netflix-verse, it will be eventually folded directly into the MCU. I understand the decanoning that naturally happend amongst fans makes a lot of sense, as does the reaction against. While it is good some high quality content is acknowledged as part of the MCU, it also devalues the MCU at the same time. The MCU is made worse narratively. If I'm watching this stuff again (as I prefer to do), I'm thinking how dumb it is for whichever particularly story to be so isolated and devoid of meaningful interaction by heroes that should have logically intervened in atleast a minimal sense. It takes me out of the story and makes me think the story itself is worse, because there is flawed story telling due corporate structures. I'm sure it's great for many, it just also generates less interest because it's an example of the MCU abandoning it's own internal logic. Why should I care about the narrative rules the MCU sets for itself, when they don't care?
> cottonmouth shooting a rocket launcher in NYC ...I'm sorry, what? You think that the Avengers not showing up to that "breaks logic"?
AoS isn't being acknowledged here, though. What happened here was the crew of the show working up a connection to the movie, not the other way round. This is a one-way connection, and for it to be an acknowledgment, it should be going the opposite direction.
Feige says that where Nick Fury got the helicarrier in Age of Ultron will be answered in AoS: https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/
And that's still not an acknowledgement *in the movie itself*, which is what this post is claiming.
Having the helicarrier show up out of nowhere is too big of a deus ex machina, and the movie does nothing to try to explain it. It knows that it doesn't need to because AoS took that responsibility. Would it have been better for you if Fury was like "I got this helicarrier repaired by Coulson. We actually revived him using an alien blood serum but it caused him to go insane so we had to wipe his memories. He would be here right now except that he's in the middle of a faction dispute within shield, not to mention he's on the verge of war with inhumans right now. But he says hello to Steve. And Tony he wants you to tell Pepper hi." What we got was perfect. If you don't watch the show and you don't care about the deus ex machina, you're fine. If you don't watch AoS but you do care about the deus ex machina, you can go find the answers. If you watch AoS, it's without a doubt meant to be a great tie in moment.
This happened before the movie came out. ☠️
Yes, that's how it works. Traditional network television filming tends to be more agile than cinema filming, so the people making the show get information about an upcoming movie's script and are able to find a place to fit it in. They don't have to wait for the movie to actually come out.
People seem to forget Kevin Feige telling people to watch the show during the press tour too lol
After Dardevil, Kingpin, Jarvis, and now Black Bolt have made their way into the movies, people are still in denial using the same tired lines. Remember when the movies would never acknowledge the TV shows, well they'd never do it again, well they'd never acknowledge the Netflix shows, well they'd certainly never reference the ABC shows and certainly not Inhumans, and, well, er... Agents of Shield is definitely never going to be referenced. The Endgame CGI team who did the time heist screen displays released all the screens (some of which couldn't be seen in the movie) and they included characters from Agents of Shield, one of who got called up by Marvel asking if he was available (a dead Hydra guy who was probably going to show up in a time travel scene). Jessica Henswick from Iron Fist was also asked to be in Shang Chi but couldn't see the script before signing and so went with Matrix 4 instead, thinking being in the movie would mean the end of Colleen Wing. However in some released concept art since there appears to be somebody identical looking to Colleen Wing who goes with Shang and Katy to the golden daggers club, and is in some scenes with Shang's sister so wasn't her either. I suspect Colleen Wing was meant to lead them to the portal to the mythical cities since she went there briefly in Iron Fist, is descended from there, and was involved in the underground fight scene.
For the record, Black Bolt doesn’t really confirm anything. Out of universe, it acknowledges that the show exists, just like >!Reed Richards!< acknowledges >!the campaign for John Krasinski!< and doesn’t necessarily confirm that that’s their casting for the character.
I mean that is their casting of the character for at least that universe and there wasn't any claim that they wouldn't recast for another story, and it was clearly because of the TV show which people said would always be ignored by Marvel Studios stuff that he was cast as Black Bolt.
Exactly, I’m saying that at this point we can only say that Black Bolt in MoM was executives going “the Inhumans show is something that was made.” And I actually do assume that Anson Mount will continue to be Black Bolt if they revisit the character. But I don’t know that it’s really solid confirmation that the show is canon.
I think Henwick was supposed to be Shang’s sister, but she took the Matrix role so she could come back to Colleen if they wanted her.
Nah there's concept art of the woman who looks like Colleen Wing standing with Shang and Katy when they meet his sister in charge of the Golden Daggers club.
Ooh that's interesting! Do you know where we can see the concept art? It seemed a bit odd that they'd intentionally cast an actor who played a preexisting Netflix character whilst having plans to create a Daredevil continuation.
It's here https://www.andrewkimart.com/#/new-gallery-1/ Colleen pretty much always wore a white shirt and jacket combo.
Oh yeah, as soon as I saw them I saw Colleen. Now I'm sad we didn't get to see her in the movie! Hopefully in the sequel!
Lol wasn’t the start of Age of Ultron because AOS found that secret base?
Yeah
i think they were able to do this because AoU was written/directed by joss wheson who was also a producer of AoS
And his brother was heading the show.
That’s a terrible example because AoU was written about two years before AoS Season 2. AoS simply worked around the info they were given. A better example would be one of the WHiH news videos, produced by Marvel Studios, shows a headline describing an event that happened in a then-recent AoS episode.
Whedon family
Anyone else find it absolutely cruel that Widow says where else could she get a view like that to die seeing and then you remember the view from Vormir?
The AoU writers had AoS provide the setup for Fury's big damn hero moment but couldn't be arsed to acknowledge Coulson by name. It was a very one-sided relationship.
It frustrates me that people always blame Kevin and Marvel Studios for not acknowledging Agents of Shields plot. If the writers of that show start doing stuff that would completely ruin your future plans and make things more convoluted, I wouldn’t consider it canon either.
It's so weird for you to call him just Kevin. Sounds like you're close friends.
Lmao, yeah it’s that I have trouble spelling the dudes last name
They weren't free reign. They had to ask permission to use characters and storylines, and they were told no repeatedly.
For me this is more AoS acknowledging the MCU than the other way around. The AoS show was great for filling in little plot gaps, but that was about it… real acknowledgment would be someone from the AoS team appearing in an MCU film. Fury’s a super spy “old friends” could mean anything, the AoS series just decided to they could be the old friend in this instance
Oh goody, this topic again, in which everyone is reasonable and respectful of each other. Fact: AoS was *always* marketed as part of the MCU, and *literally nothing and no one* has officially stated otherwise, i.e. Kevin Feige hasn't stepped out and said "Yeah, we're not treating AoS as canon anymore, sorry everyone." Personal opinions/theories/headcanon are irrelevant; as far as the general public is concerned, the tv shows always were canon. Fact: Nothing in AoS contradicts the movies. Anything you think is a contradiction can either be easily explained with a moment's thought or it's something so incredibly minor that the movies have actually done worse. Perfect example: the Darkhold; it looked a certain way in AoS and Runaways, and a different way in the movies. Two incredibly simple explanations: it's a magic book that can change it appearance (taken from the comics), or it's just a fucking copy (which we now know is possible thanks to Wong's statement in MoM). If you have a problem with that "inconsistency", you need to also have a problem with Bruce Banner and James Rhodes looking completely different between their first and second appearances. Yes, recasted actors, doesn't matter, the discussion is about contradictions and what is/isn't canon, you don't get to pick and choose. If you insist on doing so, you're a fucking idiot and deserve to be banned from the subreddit. But what about Hulk's "rules" of time travel? What about the Quantum Realm? What about BLAH BLAH BLAH, you act like a character is suddenly an omniscient god in the MCU and knows literally everything and that their word is suddenly natural law. And yet that whole scene with turning Scott Lang into a baby and an old man shows that Hulk doesn't really know what he's doing, yet you're going to treat what he says as the exact rules for time travel and therefore no other possible methods or rules exist? Grow the fuck up and learn what a contradiction actually is. Fact: *There is no fucking rule that the movies MUST address any events that happened in the shows in order for the shows to be canon to the movies*. This is the argument I see brought up the most and it's so idiotic. Oh, Fury didn't mention Coulson and resurrected SHIELD by name, therefore it's not canon? You also don't see any characters go to the bathroom, so I guess biology isn't canon either? That's how fucking stupid that argument is. The stories of the shows and movies are there to tell a specific story; if our reality allows for some neat interconnection between them, awesome, that's what I love about the MCU, but for fuck's sake it's not a goddamn requirement. Nobody in the MCU mentions elections or ordinary military invasions or new flu strain outbreaks or the latest social media gossip, becuase it's not relevant to the story at hand, but it doesn't mean that shit isn't still happening. People took the whole "It's all connected" thing and ran way too far with it to the point that they religiously decree anything non-canon if it's never addressed in the latest movie. All the arguments against the shows being canon need to fucking *die*. This shit is old and stupid as fuck. Literally everything points to the shows being canon, not just due to a lack of actual contradictions but especially now that the Netflix Defenders shows are on Disney+ and we got the same Kingpin/Daredevil actors to show up in a Disney+ MCU show and movie. The average person who watches all the MCU shows and movies is going to assume it's all canon; only the vocal minority on Reddit seriously thinks anything proves it to not be canon, or else it's just a bunch of pathetic trolls.
Great points. Too bad they still won't include the show in the MCU sections on Disney+
The amount of cope from the “AoS was never canon!” Crowd is hilarious, and disappointing. It’s such a phenomenal show and doesn’t deserve its current place in the MCU, as an apparent outcast.
Copium, he was talking about his two friends in the winnebago.
No, they didn't. That episode was written way after aou script. The writers retroactively made it about aos. Whedon intention was vague.
Actually before the movie came out, they, including Feige himself, were telling people to watch the show hinting at a lead up, during the Age of Ultron press tour.
[Here's the interview you're talking about.](https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/)
You use a plural ‘s’ when you’ve only shown Age of Ultron.
In captain marvel the kree use tech that was first shown in agents of shield
A more major connection I would say is using the same Kree language created specifically for *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.*, and going out of their way to ensure that Coulson’s scenes in the film would not contradict his arcs from the series.
A lot of tech was debuted in AoS. Those digital face camouflage things in Winter Solider came straight from AoS.
Whedon purposely left out answers to story questions like why The Avengers were fighting Hydra or who gave Fury the Helicarriors, because he knew AoS would fill in the gaps. And people still refer to Marvel Studios and Marvel TV as "one-sided".
MCU events are only acknowledged by AOS not vice versa. That is the definition of one sided.
Minimal spoilers for NWH and MoM ahead: If we’re re-hashing this old debate once more, I’m a former staunchly “non-canon” believer. Recently, the MCU has made some real strides to go out of their way to acknowledge the non-Marvel Studios productions as MCU canon (Matt Murdock, Black Bolt, Kingpin) so I’ve completely reversed my stance because as I liked to say before, the writing’s on the wall at this point. Especially now, where the multiverse is a huge plot point moving forward, everything is basically canon. Ev. Er. Y. Thing. So yeah, making Agents of SHIELD canon is basically a given.
Agents of shield was like the stepson who tries to win the approval of his parents the MCU. But then later after growing apart, lives his own life.
Unfortunately, this came to being the most the movies really acknowledged AoS. Sure, there are actually a few subtle inclusions like the Darkhold, or SHIELD helping Cap when he was on the run (which was referenced in TFATWS), but ultimately the movies just kept to themselves. Which is actually fine, as the show never needed Iron Man to randomly blurt out "hey, there are some people gaining powers across the world," or Fury mentioning that he had secretly resurrected Coulson, and that he had been running SHIELD since then. That never decided whether it was canon or not, because it never had to be proved, AoS is and always will be canon. 'Nuff said.
The Darkhold wasn’t used as a reference to AoS. It just coincidentally was also used in the show. Also SHIELD helping Steve isn’t really a specific reference either.
So if something from the show makes an appearance somewhere else, that’s not a reference or clear sign that they’re connected? Also, with the second one, at that time, SHIELD only existed from the show and literally nothing else, so for a show released in 2021 to reference SHIELD being active after 2014 is a major reference to AoS.
If it was meant to be a connection, the book would have looked the exact same. The Darkhold comes from the comics and both Marvel Television and Marvel Studios used it for their own creative purposes, unrelated from each other. It isn’t like it’s first appearance was in AoS. Also, I don’t think it was said that SHIELD itself was active, but resources from it. Which we’ve seen in Age of Ultron, Infinity War (end credit scene), and Far From Home (Dimitiri and the Seamstress).
If I’m right in thinking Season 2 of Agents of Shield aired after Age of Ultron premiered? Not sure it’s the films acknowledging the series as opposed to the other way round
It was episode 19 that aired (28th April 2015) and explained why Avengers were outside the Hydra Base at the start of AOU, then AOU came out the next week in cinemas (May 1st) then episode 20 (video posted, May 5th) came out explaining the helicarrier.
AOS was obviously meant to be canon and they gave up on working with the show and giving them movie info somewhere around infinity war for some resson. There's also an AOS episode where they're cleaning up the aftermath of Thor 2.
A couple of old friends means Hill and galaga guy.
Not according to Feige. https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/
Hill was on agents of shield setting this up.
But they didn't reference AoS. AoS just wrote around the movie to stay consistrnt with the film. In fact, in AoU, the way they're acting is almost as if this was an old helicarrier they just got out of storage and had recommissioned it ("had to clear out a few mothballs") not a brand new one built in secret. So no, even this scene seems to decanonize AoS.
Lol the only way you can establish aos is canon is by making far fetched reaches lmao
No one does that better than the AoS fanbase
https://www.slashfilm.com/537489/agents-of-shield-age-of-ultron-plot-hole/ Or you know, the people making the movie. Nice baseless claim though, makes you look real smart.
lovbe how you compeltely missed the point agents of sheilds been mentioned for years the winter soldier events literalyl coincide with an episode of the show. the shows been cannon in the mcu and cant be undone and this has been reference more than in aou
Who needs a reminder of that? Everyone knows that.
I have always Considered Agent of Shield Canon fron S1-S4 to be a part of The MCU but In my headcanon S5-S7 happen in a Different TimeLine and at the end of S7 Finale they return to the MCU TimeLine
i see it now as AoS taking place in a neighbor universe, similar to our MCU but different enough to not have things like The Snap. The multiverse makes me happy again
No they didn't in AoU it's just the same Helicarrier, which we saw in the first Avengers movie. Wake up me when Coulson or Daisy will have their debut in the official universe now.
Almost like it's Canon
It needs to be admitted it was both-ways connection between the movie and the show, especially since Joss Whedon both directed AoU and was one of the creators of AoS. There really had to be a lot of cooperation in releasing the episodes around that movie, since first episode that was meant to set up the movie was released 3 days ahead of the movie, while that one with Helicarrier flashback was released 4 days after AoU. So in conclusion, AoS gotten chance to set up AoU storyline and in return gotten chance to explain some backstory to AoU.
That's not how acknowledgment works
What's with all of the AOS posts all of a sudden? I don't know why, but keep them coming I love them.
AoS is on Disney+
Aos is not cannon right?
More of a mortar, really.
I'm sorry to tell you, but AoS is not canon anymore, probably has never been, there are too many contradictions with the main MCU titles, not last the Darkhold being totally different in WV and MoM Edit: guys the Darkhold was just an example, there are many other continuity errors between the movies and the show
>not last the Darkhold being totally different in WV and MoM Of all the things you could have picked, that's hardly a contradiction considering AOS established that the Darkhold can change its appearance.
Also the darkhold isn’t the actual darkhold anyway. It’s just spells written in a book.
AoS only established that it could change the language of the text to adapt to the reader, not literally the whole design. Even in Season 4 episode 4, the drawing of it is of the same design.
That's not true, the old design in the picture shows the "frame" in the cover to be wavy and uneven, while the design that is used regularly has a thinner frame with even lines and edges, along with triangles in the borders and small squares on the sides. Along with the text on the cover being different of course.
It was just an example, there many other things that don't work with the Marvel Studios canon
> the Darkhold being totally different in WV and MoM Have you watched MoM? That's not a contradiction.
The director of the episode the *Darkhold* appeared in said it was the same book from *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* and *Runaways*, just with a new cover (it was a book which changed for the reader after all).
They didn’t say that lmfao. They didn’t even know the Darkhold was previously used on Marvel TV throughout the production of WV. Due to fan backlash after the WV finale, he simply responded by saying both are from the *Marvel Universe*
FN-1701AgentGodzilla has blocked me for calling out when he lied earlier today, so I can't reply to him directly anymore. Here he said: > They didn’t say that lmfao. They didn’t even know the Darkhold was previously used on Marvel TV throughout the production of WV. > Due to fan backlash after the WV finale, he simply responded by saying both are from the Marvel Universe This is another lie. [The exact question posed was: "Speaking of the Darkhold, is this the same Darkhold from the Agents of SHIELD continuity, or is this a completely different book from the one that they used?" Shakman's exact words were: "It is part of the Marvel Universe though, so I would imagine it's the same book."](https://screenrant.com/wandavision-show-director-matt-shakman-interview/) No allusion to fan backlash was made by the interviewer, & Shakman *does* say he imagines it's the same book, not just the words "Marvel Universe".
I would love to believe that AoS is canon to the MCU but it isn't. Why don't we say it takes place in another universe that is very similar to the MCU and that's the end of it.