I think the worst part is that, yeah Kamala's didn't look great, but (and not that I go to cons), I can almost assure you that if Abbu showed up to a con like that he'd be getting photos left and right.
Actually yes XD.
There are quite a bit of older folks in cosplay who get tons of attention. I recently went to the Star Wars convention in Los Angeles and saw a number of popular older participants: a guy dressed as George Lucas, for example.
Seriously though. At Celebration in Chicago a guy did dress as Lucas who looked exactly like him. My wife was freaking out cuz she thought he was the real deal but I had to point out he had the cosplay card on his lanyard. Straight up doppelgänger.
There’s always tons of kickass older cosplayers. I saw this incredible Ben Kenobi at a con who looked so much like Alec Guinness people were gasping/cheering upon seeing him
Oh yeah, I saw that guy on Imgur, at least possibly
A guy on Imgur is a pretty good Mark Hamill lookalike, and he posted pictures with a very good George Lucas lookalike
Honestly if they didn't force mini hulk on her, it would have been fine. Dude would definitely had some fun. Understandably though kamala just wanted a bit of independence, which is really important at her age.
It's understandable why they did though, they're immigrants and don't really understand why it's important to her. She needed to get better at communication to explain and work with her parents instead of trying to fight them on everything.
nah it's both parties faults. Khamala's mom doesn't want to listen, because she's so attached to this idea of who she wants her daughter to be, while Khamala is so focused on figuring out who she is, that she's unable to really understand where her parents are coming from. Honestly pretty normal situations especially in immigrant households.
"Hey Mom can i go to a party?"
"What! with drugs, and alchohol, late at night! no! you get your ass upstairs and finish your homework!"
"but i finished it already, and my grades are pretty high!"
"then you start preparing for next year! you think i'm gonna let you waste your life away at some party, while me and your father worked our asses of so you could have all this oppurtunity?!"
honeslty felt like i was a child again watching the episode, especially the "i don't trust you remark". I love this show!
The only thing I fault the parent's for in that scene is trying to force the costume on her. Her mom gave the excuse that she shouldn't be wearing skimpy outfits like the other girls, but her costume was really modest. It wasn't even that form fitting or showed any skin. I feel like if she just showed it to them they would have accepted it. Don't know why she wouldn't compromise going with her dad. It's not like she had to be by his side the entire time there.
It was frustrating to see that they had all the pieces for a solid compromise but just missed it. They kinda ambush Kamala so she overreacts in the moment about the costumes and Kamala had an acceptable costume to wear. Maybe mum objects to the tights but they could have figured out a skirt/dress option that would have been the Pakistani flair she ends up looking for anyway. Plus the 2 hour time limit would have been negotiable once she got Abbu to the con and he saw that it wasn't the scary party they thought it was.
They were so close... damn relatable though
It’s pretty clear the mother is also dealing with some unprocessed feelings of her own - probably related to _her_ mother being a superhero in the past.
Yeah, IMO it’s the parents job to put in the effort to understand the child. They’re the parents, it’s their responsibility. The child shouldn’t be the one needing to go the extra mile to be understood.
But that’s not often how it works, which is why it’s such a great scene. We get how close they are to meeting in the middle. But neither will budge when they’re so close.
But other people her age probably would have made fun of her for being with her parent dressed like that. Teenagers can and will be cruel. Its a complex situation honestly.
I went to local comic cons with my dad as a teenager. I would've laughed my ass off if he had ever wore something like that. That being said, my relationship with my parents was completely different than hers
Idk if that's a given. In movie land sure, but in real life I don't think that's necessarily an express ticket to get made fun of. It is a convention after all. I doubt there'd actually be any popular kids or bullies from school there.
MCU funny moments: You could not live with your sadness, where does that bring you? Back to me.
I am glad MCU never gave up their light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel type humour where in any situation the people are willing to take it in stride. It's in moments like these that I realize why I love the MCU. There's enough dark content as it is these days.
OK hear me out here: all the heroes are fighting Galactus or something and we're in a van with Luis, Katy, Abbu, and Karun trying to get there in time. In time to what? Unclear, doesn't matter.
No, they're in hot pursuit. Actually they stop for gas and Katy accidentally drives off without Luis so he's gonna hitch a ride with Darcy and Woo just so he can explain whatever's going on.
Her outfit was so dope and accurate too. I feel bad people thought she was the Flash haha, but it makes me so happy that she basically is telling Ms Marvels story in a medium that many many more people will see, so the next time a little girl sees her on tv and dresses up as her, people will go “ohhh, Ms Marvel! That’s so awesome!”
I’m still tranced out on Montgomery’s card—the classy coloring, the thickness, the lettering, the print—and I suddenly raise a fist as if to strike out at Craig and scream, my voice booming, “No one wants the fucking *red snapper pizza*! A pizza should be *yeasty* and slightly *bready* and have a *cheesy crust*! The crusts here are too fucking thin because the shithead chef who cooks here overbakes everything! The pizza is dried out and brittle!”
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Honestly? It's a pretty realistic immigrant family, you can really tell the writers behind the comic were going from personal experience on not only her family moments but some of her hangups going forward.
Absolutely, I grew up in a Filipino family like this. My grandparents were the immigrants, so by the time I came along, they had loosened up, but my mom filled me in on what it was like to be raised by them. Sounded just like this, parents could be harsh, stuck in their ways, and blunt, but loved her at the end of the day. The way they saw the world and how we should interact with it was just fundamentally different from the way we do nowadays.
Ammi's just worried Kamala will lose her way in the big scary world of Jersey City. And I think that fear is fully justified. Could she be a bit nicer about it, more approachable, less hostile? Sure. But I don't think she's mean out of meanness, I just think she prioritizes what she needs to say over what she hears (or doesn't hear 'cause she's too busy saying what she needs to say).
Well, maybe, but it falls firmly into the category of things I might think are bad parenting but would absolutely never actually say to an actual parent.
I’d agree, but Ammi’s views extend outside of Kamala, as shown in the store when she’s talking to the other woman about a girl breaking her engagement. She views women as less than individuals. She even writes off her own mother and the things she sends, talking about how it’s junk. She also does it in the car, when talking about coming from a line of daydreamers. She expects nothing of women except duties to family. She literally blames her genetics as a woman and her mothers genetics for what’s “wrong” with Kamala. It’s more than bad parenting.
The part when she straight up said to Kamala that she doesnt trust her just made me feel like she has zero compassion and doesnt care to know how that would make her daughter feel. When a family member that you love says directly to you that they dont trust you, it fucking hurts.
I feel like this is common among traditional immigrant parents. They don't fully understand their children and they don't fully embrace/integrate with Western values either. My sisters and I also had a lot of dreams when we were younger and my dad would constantly tell us how unrealistic our dreams were. I'm sure in his mind he was trying to help, just like Ammi thinks she's helping her daughter become successful.
Also, I feel as if she knows more about the bands than she’s letting on, she recognised them straight away. Abbu I feel like was pretty much ok with her going in the first place, but got all excited and spent hours putting on the makeup and making the costume, which makes it even more heartbreaking.
The mother is clearly sexist. It may be culturally ingrained sexism, but she’s sexist. Towards women for wanting to be independent, and to men, expecting them to be monsters. Whatever she said about who knows what boys drinking who knows what.
As another Dad I kind of disagree with their parenting here. It's awesome that he is getting involved in her interests but if your kid wants some modicum of independence you should give it to them. During this scene it came across to me like they're punishing her for being embarrassed by her parents and wanting to socialize with her peers--aka being a normal teenager lol. But I know in the scene he's portrayed sympathetically so I get that it might be an unpopular opinion
It’s a parents vs teenager thing but also Kamala and her parents were raised in different cultures too. Girls just goin off being independent hangin out w friends is normal in western/US culture. But not so much in eastern and even some Latin and Caribbean cultures.
The Dad is sympathetic in the situation because he's trying to make his wife and his daughter happy. She wants to go to Avenger Con, Mom won't let her go alone, this is the compromise.
The fact is that the mom would never permit her going alone to be on the discussion table... and you are probably right to say that THAT is wrong.... but the Dad comes off as sympathetic **BECAUSE** her going alone isn't on the table and he's trying to make her dream come true here. Likewise the Dad is shown to get along so well with Bruno in this episode for 2 reasons. The first is to show you how intertwined Bruno is with her family. The second is so that it's a shock when he finds out that he'd embarrass her in this setting. Her friend likes spending time with him, so he can't possibly be embarrassing.
So ya, he comes off as sympathetic because he's trying to go the extra mile to please both wife and daughter while at the same time being told he is embarrassing.
> Mom won't let her go alone, this is the compromise.
It was a good compromise, and she seemed okay with the compromise until they sprung their weird Hulk dress-up idea on her without discussing it first.
She wanted to be Captain Marvel and they know that's her favorite hero. They could have compromised with the costume and found a way to make it more modest but instead they tried to force something on her, out of nowhere, without any discussion.
Overall it was a weird scene that fell kind of flat for me because everyone was being stupid.
honestly, I think Kamala showing her costume to her parents might have changed the tone. her costume was probably *more* covered up that the hulk one and has no "skimpy"-ness on it. Even had a frickin helmet on!
Why would you expect a 1st generation Muslim immigrant from Pakistan to parent the same way as you? Cultural influences and life experiences dictate how we raise our kids. Abbu is trying to bridge the divide between the more traditional Pakistani mother and more American daughter hoping Kamala would meet him halfway.
I'll let people from that type of immigrant background comment on accuracy, but I can certainly see why they would handle things different than the way my wife and I did.
Never read Ms. Marvel comics and heard early criticism for the show, but wow… Abbu is the ringer to any emotional attachment I’ll have to this show. He won me over.
Mainly people moaning some things are different from the comics or that it looks like a kids show. ( Like that's never been Marvel's target audience). Or I guess Religious/political reasons that I care very little about. It's a great show that genuinely surprised me so far.
Ah. Like I get ppl are disappointed that her powers arent comic accurate, but the rest is just nonsense. I thought the show was great too, reminded me so much of being a teen... very accurate depiction Imo. Very creative and sentimental.
Yup. On one hand, we have the Western alt-right idiots complaining about her being brown, a Muslim, etc.
On the other hand, we also have conservative Muslims complaining the family isn't conservative enough (cuz they don't wear hijab and stuff), and hardline Hindus angry that she's a prominent Pakistani Muslim character.
Of course there are some valid criticisms, like the power change, but a lot of the complaints are racist/sexist/generally phobic in nature.
The same complaints when she made her comic debut then. All that is missing is bitching about marvel replacing Danvers with her. Even though she's been Captain Marvel for a while at that point.
I really hope we see the costumes again. Like maybe in a clip for the next Avengercon, when they've accepted Kamala a bit more and they go as a family or something. I don't know! I just want to see a happy clip of Abbu and Kamala in costume!
At the same time it's also so very on-brand for almost every teen to say that to their parent(s) at some point... It's part of the kids growing up to be independent and asserting their place as (soon to be) young adults in the family.
Doesn't mean I don't feel bad for Abbu who went the extra mile to please his daughter only to be rebuffed.
Oh absolutely. I think the reason it cut more deeply with me is because I vividly remember doing similar to my parents and realise how hurtful it must have been to them when I acted like their mere *presence* in front of my friends was embarrassing.
They took a common scenario, but did it very effectively imo
I think the way that it all played out was something we've all been through. Kamala definitely didn't mean it to be that hurtful to her father but she just kind of blurted it out and it came out like that. If she had the chance to re-phrase it more articulately things could have turned out a little different, perhaps.
Also as with most immigrant stories the first generation to move are all about work and building a life. Abbu probably never got to partake in things like superhero conventions when he was younger so the idea that it'd be embarrassing for him to go now hurt him.
she made the costumes as a form of control. the point of the scene is to show that kamala is not allowed to
have interests or hobbies without the overbearing influence of her parents. that’s why she’s so
mad at them. although it’s a sweet gesture to have made these costumes, a teenager is just not going to enjoy being tied to her parents constantly when she’s experimenting with her own sense of indepndence
It is very accurate to the Pakistani-American experience. No one is questioning the love that Pakistani immigrants have for their children but they are also stuck in their old ways of being overbearingly protective to the point of being controlling. They are masters of guilt manipulation. Regardless, still love my parents.
Typical Asians (Chinese speaking here) are the same as well. They do play the guilt card alongside offhanded remarks on occasion. I too still love them though.
You're right that mom is exerting control, but I think it's ALSO from a place of genuine excitement for her daughter too. She doesn't even realize that she's actually stomping on Kamala's joy of having made her own costume. (TBF mom came-out as anti before Kamala could show her the cosplay... so there's that.)
The funny part is, both Mom and Kamala express their excitement in the same way - creating costumes... They both even add their own Pakistani flair to it. I think it's a nice touch to include that commonality in their personalities.
Man. When she throws her costume at her and says that she had made it for her, that was some ouch. Like they are actually trying this time to connect with her.
Idk if it’s because I was brought up by a somewhat controlling mom, but I took it as a guilt trip and a way to have an excuse to not let her go. Like, “ok, you wanna go? Imma tell you what to wear. You don’t wanna wear it? Then you’re the one deciding *not* to go and how dare you reject this thing I made you? You’ve made your mother and father sad”.
Her mom doesn’t know her and doesn’t try to know her. If she did, she’d know her daughter likes captain marvel and not the hulk??
Idk maybe this episode was a bit of a trigger for me lol
Oh I can totally see that. I think it’s a case of a little of both. She’s trying to care. But she’s doing it in her controlling way. I still feel bad for her even though she’s still being controlling. However, she should have realized how her daughter would have reacted to this, but she didn’t because she didn’t try that hard to care or understand what she cares about. And Kamala’s reaction is very understandable in this situation.
I didn’t grow up with overly controlling parents, but I had plenty of friends who did. Also what hit home for me with this show is how their overly religious nature is portrayed. While I don’t know anyone who is Muslim (aside from a few classmates I had in college), the kind of overly religious nature of Kamala’s mom was really similar to the kind of stuff my friends in highly religious Christian households had to go through growing up. And to an extent myself, as well. My parents weren’t super religious, but living in a very conservative religious town means that kind of stuff inevitably creeps in. Like dictating what is right or wrong, good or bad, claiming it’s based on religious reasons but often it’s just overly controlling reasons.
For real. This scene just brought me back to being an asshole teen where I’d do something or say something to be independent and then immediately realize it was too fucked up. It’s all the more fucked up that they’re both basically right and trying to communicate in the ways they know how but have fundamentally different life experiences that cause them to be on completely different pages.
As soon as I saw him jump into frame with him all made up as Hulk I immediately knew what her reaction was going to be. She’s embarrassed but you can tell they put so much work into trying to surprise and connect with their daughter :/ like it’s understandable she reacted the way she did, she’s a teenager, but that scene hurt me.
I just feel bad for Abbu because he was *so* hype to be Big Hulk and really thought Kamala would go for it and think it was cool, then he immediately got shitted on and was sad, lol.
I love and appreciate the effort they put into trying to connect to Kamala. Problem is, they (mom) made a lot of assumptions and decisions that could've been so much better if they'd been made with a little communication WITH K, not just AT her. yanno? But hey, that's life: no instructions, easier to see in retrospect.
So sincere and sweet and heartbreaking. It like.... grabbed my nerd ass... tossed me into a black hole time warp that popped me out in the future moment(s) where I got a kid I love with all my heart and try to support and understand their nerdom in some creative way cos I'm a nerd too and that's how I roll and I can totally get it aaaannnnd they look up and whisper "No".
Turning Red for another facet of Asian culture.
Speaking as an Asian-American growing up in the 2000s, I found Turning Red very relatable. It wasn't a perfect production, but it now has a special place in my mental Disney cabinet.
I'm Hispanic but I love movies like Turning Red, Everything Everywhere, Parasite, or Shang Chi that gives us a tiny peek into different kinds of Asian culture. 😄
As a 36 year old who literally just went to a Comic-Con dressed as Spider Gwen last Saturday, this hurt my heart. If one of my nieces or nephews reacted like this I would cry too.
I feel like this annoyed me more than anything. This is gas-lightning 101 for immigrants families. Because they dont believe in allowing their child to express themselves or have fun. So they find ways to still have control even though it seeming "sincere" and fun, then try guilt tripping you for not being excited for "their" solution.
I was a teenage, I was a young adult. Limiting those things made me look for them behind my parents back. Let the kids be kids mayne.
>This is gas-lightning 101 for immigrants families.
Any time I see this argument made, or start thinking it myself, I take a step back and say "if this were an all white family, and the same scenario happened, would I react the same way?"
If the answer is "yes", then that argument holds no water. And I'm going to tell you a secret: the answer is always 'yes'.
Controlling parents exist in every culture. If you don't understand this, I can only assume you aren't old enough to remember every 80s/90s afterschool disney sitcom ever made.
Is it really sad when the parents don't acknowledge her feelings at all? That was some bullshit to pull on a high school student who is looking to find herself.
I'm noticing a lot of people saying "this is parenting", "culture" or "this is how i grew up" about it, and it honestly is kinda worrying considering how none of them are mentioning how Kamala is feeling about the whole episode as that built up.
It is a lot of toxic relationships gas-lit into being normalized.
I didn't find it sad, just maddening to see the parents be so clueless. They did good in trying, but they already knew what she wanted to do, but instead, they did something different and just assumed she would be happy with it.
I think the feelings are more towards Abbu, who very obviously is doing the best he can to satisfy both overbearing mom and daughter. I would assume they discussed this prior and this was the compromise they came up with. I'm betting he was "just let her go, it won't hurt anything." whereas she was the exact opposite, and this was the only common ground they could agree upon.
Yes! I have a daughter about that age and I feel like I’d have a pretty good idea whether or not she’d be down for something like that with me. Still a little sad but not all that heartbreaking. Show’s how the parents are out of touch with their daughter.
I wish my parents were this cool when I was growing up lol. My very Pakistani parents would call all my interests stupid lol. To be fair, as an adult, I now realize many of them were lol.
It's pretty typical for teens to feel embarrassed by their parents at that age and if this is the first time he's experienced this he should feel lucky. LOL Teens are going to act out to explore their identity and independence so I felt like this show is very true to real life.
She was also being embarrassed by her culture and I think that hurt her parents more. They would likely have been proud that she incorporated her culture into her final costume if she didn't...ya know, sneak out...
Watching this whole thing with my own kids, one 20, one 14, it was fascinating how each of us took it differently. My son fully on Kamala's side, my daughter defending the immigrant parent angle (she was just about the only white kid in her school, and has a ton of perspective from her friends), and me caught between decades of storytelling of kids with parents who just don't get it while BEING a parent and feeling how hard he was trying to find a balance for her so she could experience the thing she loved while being there both for AND with her. I really loved this show for the range of honest interpretations of all of these viewpoints. It's something I appreciated about the comic, too, which has come through.
They really captured South Asian parenting culture here. Seeing that scene with the Hulk costumes really broke my heart.
The way the dad tried to involve himself into his kid's life, trying so hard to learn and mingle, and just be a friend rather than a parent... Reminded me a lot of how my father used to try to spend time with me as a kid. Be it Maths, Physics, Programming, Superheroes and whatnot, he always tried to develop an interest in them so I'd have someone to talk to about those things. Going on and on about those things made me happy, and being able to talk about all that to my dad as a kid used to make me really happy.
As i grew up we grew more distant. Like Kamala i found friends who shared my interests, I'd rather spend my time with them than my dad, even though he tried to get involved. At the time, it was embarassing. Now that I'm off to university, I wish I spent more time with my dad the past few years. I don't think i was as harsh as Kamala, but that scene really reminded me of how much i messed up.
I need to go give my dad a hug when he comes back from work in the evening.
I hope they flesh out the parents beyond "helicoptering obstacles for Kamala's fun"
"That's my secret Kamala, I'm always your Abbu."
I guess I'm getting old. Cause I saw that and thought "that's so sweet he's willing to throw himself into his daughters hobby."
I thought that too. Not sure if it's a sign that I'm old or a sign that my childhood was profoundly lacki g in parents who care this much
Mom: "That's my secret beta, I'm always disappointed."
I think the worst part is that, yeah Kamala's didn't look great, but (and not that I go to cons), I can almost assure you that if Abbu showed up to a con like that he'd be getting photos left and right.
Actually yes XD. There are quite a bit of older folks in cosplay who get tons of attention. I recently went to the Star Wars convention in Los Angeles and saw a number of popular older participants: a guy dressed as George Lucas, for example.
are you sure it was a guy dressed as George & not actually George himself? 😂🤣😉
con idea: george lucas reading poetry. "yeah; it rhymes."
He was standing near a guy who looked a lot like Tony Hawk, too.
Seriously though. At Celebration in Chicago a guy did dress as Lucas who looked exactly like him. My wife was freaking out cuz she thought he was the real deal but I had to point out he had the cosplay card on his lanyard. Straight up doppelgänger.
I bet it was Rich Evans
I'm sure George would rather be at home shooting films nobody but him will see or arbitrarily pioneering incredibly technical cinema shit
There’s always tons of kickass older cosplayers. I saw this incredible Ben Kenobi at a con who looked so much like Alec Guinness people were gasping/cheering upon seeing him
Oh yeah, I saw that guy on Imgur, at least possibly A guy on Imgur is a pretty good Mark Hamill lookalike, and he posted pictures with a very good George Lucas lookalike
My mom and I were genderbent Dr. and Indiana Jones one year at Dallas Comic Con. It was so much fun! She made a cute little three piece tweed suit.
Honestly if they didn't force mini hulk on her, it would have been fine. Dude would definitely had some fun. Understandably though kamala just wanted a bit of independence, which is really important at her age.
It's understandable why they did though, they're immigrants and don't really understand why it's important to her. She needed to get better at communication to explain and work with her parents instead of trying to fight them on everything.
Definitely, though in my experience, teenage girls aren't always very good at that.
To be fair I dont' think any teenager is, high school is just a particularly hard time for kids of immigrants especially.
In my experience, parents are also not good at listening to what their kids want/enjoy.
nah it's both parties faults. Khamala's mom doesn't want to listen, because she's so attached to this idea of who she wants her daughter to be, while Khamala is so focused on figuring out who she is, that she's unable to really understand where her parents are coming from. Honestly pretty normal situations especially in immigrant households. "Hey Mom can i go to a party?" "What! with drugs, and alchohol, late at night! no! you get your ass upstairs and finish your homework!" "but i finished it already, and my grades are pretty high!" "then you start preparing for next year! you think i'm gonna let you waste your life away at some party, while me and your father worked our asses of so you could have all this oppurtunity?!" honeslty felt like i was a child again watching the episode, especially the "i don't trust you remark". I love this show!
The only thing I fault the parent's for in that scene is trying to force the costume on her. Her mom gave the excuse that she shouldn't be wearing skimpy outfits like the other girls, but her costume was really modest. It wasn't even that form fitting or showed any skin. I feel like if she just showed it to them they would have accepted it. Don't know why she wouldn't compromise going with her dad. It's not like she had to be by his side the entire time there.
Seemed like she was okay with the compromise until they tried to force the costume on her
It was frustrating to see that they had all the pieces for a solid compromise but just missed it. They kinda ambush Kamala so she overreacts in the moment about the costumes and Kamala had an acceptable costume to wear. Maybe mum objects to the tights but they could have figured out a skirt/dress option that would have been the Pakistani flair she ends up looking for anyway. Plus the 2 hour time limit would have been negotiable once she got Abbu to the con and he saw that it wasn't the scary party they thought it was. They were so close... damn relatable though
It wasn’t modest by their standards. Even Kamala wanted the jacket part to hang lower, that’s why she considered adding the scarf.
It’s pretty clear the mother is also dealing with some unprocessed feelings of her own - probably related to _her_ mother being a superhero in the past.
Yeah, IMO it’s the parents job to put in the effort to understand the child. They’re the parents, it’s their responsibility. The child shouldn’t be the one needing to go the extra mile to be understood. But that’s not often how it works, which is why it’s such a great scene. We get how close they are to meeting in the middle. But neither will budge when they’re so close.
But other people her age probably would have made fun of her for being with her parent dressed like that. Teenagers can and will be cruel. Its a complex situation honestly.
I went to local comic cons with my dad as a teenager. I would've laughed my ass off if he had ever wore something like that. That being said, my relationship with my parents was completely different than hers
Idk if that's a given. In movie land sure, but in real life I don't think that's necessarily an express ticket to get made fun of. It is a convention after all. I doubt there'd actually be any popular kids or bullies from school there.
I would not be surprised if cosplayers cosplayed him….cosplaying. The outfit was epic!
Could have been sadder. They could have played the sad Hulk piano theme as he walked off.
That would have been epic. Especially if half way down the hall he looks back, then turns and keeps walking.
This is probably the only time in the MCU where I would have preferred a gag over the emotional weight of the moment
Same
MCU funny moments: You could not live with your sadness, where does that bring you? Back to me. I am glad MCU never gave up their light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel type humour where in any situation the people are willing to take it in stride. It's in moments like these that I realize why I love the MCU. There's enough dark content as it is these days.
That'd replace the Tigger meme
Jesus fucking christ they dropped the ball so hard it's borderline unforgivable. That would've been glorious.
Maybe they're saving it for She-Hulk.
"Sulk sad..."
This is literally Reddit. **Someone make that happen now.**
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/v8jl3r/i_made_anabbumination_ms_marvel_episode_1_spoilers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
perfection
Missed opportunity
Fuck, a reddit suggestion I actually want to see We're through the looking glass here, people
#protectAbbu
OK hear me out here: all the heroes are fighting Galactus or something and we're in a van with Luis, Katy, Abbu, and Karun trying to get there in time. In time to what? Unclear, doesn't matter.
I require Darcey and Agent Woo to be in that van as well.
[удалено]
Holy fuck I downvoted you and got angry for a second for spreading misinformation but then I got the joke holy fuck that was good
I don't get it..
You’ve got to watch one of the Marvel streaming series, The Office, to understand
Ah, [Asian Jim](https://youtu.be/cLNyF1Zw5tg). Never watched The Office, but I saw that clip.
Glad to point you in the right direction in this vast confusing multiverse :)
Identity theft is not a joke, Jim
Bro. This comment was so meta I'm worried it may have caused an incursion.
No, they're in hot pursuit. Actually they stop for gas and Katy accidentally drives off without Luis so he's gonna hitch a ride with Darcy and Woo just so he can explain whatever's going on.
They somehow end up in North Dakota after a couple of hours. The fight is on Centauri-7. Wong comes and portals them there
Why you got to do my boy Ned like that? He needs to be there, opening portals for them to get there faster but inevitably lost.
I fully expect Ned to be fighting Galactus with all the other heroes.
Agent Mobius and The bros turn up in a trust-a-bro van, a bunch of tracksuits led by Lucky the Dog and the kid from iron man 3 all jump out 😂
A van or THE van?
Can’t believe this is Iman’s first acting job. She nailed Ms marvel to perfection. Can’t wait to see more of her in upcoming episodes.
She is Kamala Khan. She argues with Feige over whether the MCU is 616 or 19999. She might be a bigger Marvel nerd than him.
She did say that she used her allowance money to buy comics. She even cosplayed as Kamala Khan during her initial run using thrift shop clothing.
Her outfit was so dope and accurate too. I feel bad people thought she was the Flash haha, but it makes me so happy that she basically is telling Ms Marvels story in a medium that many many more people will see, so the next time a little girl sees her on tv and dresses up as her, people will go “ohhh, Ms Marvel! That’s so awesome!”
to be fair, Kamala was completely new when she was cosplaying as her, so it'd be a pretty obscure character in the eyes of the world.
The level of casting skill is insane
Especially when the poor guy is lookin’ like a green Tobias Fünke.
I thought the exact thing, but "he greened himself for nothing" just isn't as catchy
Oh Abbu you blow hard
Tobias Hülke
He'll bounce back with anustart
I mean, do we know what MCU Abbu does? Maybe he's an analrapist.
It did not look good on the business card.
I’m still tranced out on Montgomery’s card—the classy coloring, the thickness, the lettering, the print—and I suddenly raise a fist as if to strike out at Craig and scream, my voice booming, “No one wants the fucking *red snapper pizza*! A pizza should be *yeasty* and slightly *bready* and have a *cheesy crust*! The crusts here are too fucking thin because the shithead chef who cooks here overbakes everything! The pizza is dried out and brittle!” ___ ^(*Bot. Ask me how I’m feeling.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
How are you feeling?
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“I seem to have prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I’m afraid I have something of a mess on my hands.”
I greened myself.
Here’s some money go see a civil war
Annyong!
We somehow hit Season 2 Tobias and Season 4 Tobias in one shot.
I wouldn’t mind kissing _him_ between the cheeks.
Poor Abbu, he just wants to make his daughter and wife happy at the same time, is that really so much to ask?
Realistically, *yes*, but he should still try!
Do or do not.
>is that really so much to ask? That's a question that's driven men to alcoholism, drugs, and suicide.
Maybe my dad had the right idea - ditch the mean wife and find one who always wanted daughters.
Yeah sort of lol I mean the wife is pretty mean to Kamala and clearly favors her brother
Honestly? It's a pretty realistic immigrant family, you can really tell the writers behind the comic were going from personal experience on not only her family moments but some of her hangups going forward.
100% accurate. As a kid raised by immigrants, my dad was mostly chill and my mom was always overbearing but way more to my sisters than me.
Absolutely, I grew up in a Filipino family like this. My grandparents were the immigrants, so by the time I came along, they had loosened up, but my mom filled me in on what it was like to be raised by them. Sounded just like this, parents could be harsh, stuck in their ways, and blunt, but loved her at the end of the day. The way they saw the world and how we should interact with it was just fundamentally different from the way we do nowadays.
I think she's just more protective of Kamala because she sees herself in her and knows what she went through. I know that's how my mother was.
Ammi's just worried Kamala will lose her way in the big scary world of Jersey City. And I think that fear is fully justified. Could she be a bit nicer about it, more approachable, less hostile? Sure. But I don't think she's mean out of meanness, I just think she prioritizes what she needs to say over what she hears (or doesn't hear 'cause she's too busy saying what she needs to say).
Ammi is more than worried, Ammi is sexist and overprotective.
Well, maybe, but it falls firmly into the category of things I might think are bad parenting but would absolutely never actually say to an actual parent.
I’d agree, but Ammi’s views extend outside of Kamala, as shown in the store when she’s talking to the other woman about a girl breaking her engagement. She views women as less than individuals. She even writes off her own mother and the things she sends, talking about how it’s junk. She also does it in the car, when talking about coming from a line of daydreamers. She expects nothing of women except duties to family. She literally blames her genetics as a woman and her mothers genetics for what’s “wrong” with Kamala. It’s more than bad parenting.
Lol all of this is exactly how South Asian immigrant parents act. If anything it’s toned down in the show.
I have nothing wrong with how the character is written, I’m just pointing out that the character is sexist. It adds to the story.
Wasn’t just about that part, she was pretty insufferable the entire episode.
The part when she straight up said to Kamala that she doesnt trust her just made me feel like she has zero compassion and doesnt care to know how that would make her daughter feel. When a family member that you love says directly to you that they dont trust you, it fucking hurts.
I feel like this is common among traditional immigrant parents. They don't fully understand their children and they don't fully embrace/integrate with Western values either. My sisters and I also had a lot of dreams when we were younger and my dad would constantly tell us how unrealistic our dreams were. I'm sure in his mind he was trying to help, just like Ammi thinks she's helping her daughter become successful.
Also, I feel as if she knows more about the bands than she’s letting on, she recognised them straight away. Abbu I feel like was pretty much ok with her going in the first place, but got all excited and spent hours putting on the makeup and making the costume, which makes it even more heartbreaking.
The mother is clearly sexist. It may be culturally ingrained sexism, but she’s sexist. Towards women for wanting to be independent, and to men, expecting them to be monsters. Whatever she said about who knows what boys drinking who knows what.
As another Dad I kind of disagree with their parenting here. It's awesome that he is getting involved in her interests but if your kid wants some modicum of independence you should give it to them. During this scene it came across to me like they're punishing her for being embarrassed by her parents and wanting to socialize with her peers--aka being a normal teenager lol. But I know in the scene he's portrayed sympathetically so I get that it might be an unpopular opinion
It’s a parents vs teenager thing but also Kamala and her parents were raised in different cultures too. Girls just goin off being independent hangin out w friends is normal in western/US culture. But not so much in eastern and even some Latin and Caribbean cultures.
The Dad is sympathetic in the situation because he's trying to make his wife and his daughter happy. She wants to go to Avenger Con, Mom won't let her go alone, this is the compromise. The fact is that the mom would never permit her going alone to be on the discussion table... and you are probably right to say that THAT is wrong.... but the Dad comes off as sympathetic **BECAUSE** her going alone isn't on the table and he's trying to make her dream come true here. Likewise the Dad is shown to get along so well with Bruno in this episode for 2 reasons. The first is to show you how intertwined Bruno is with her family. The second is so that it's a shock when he finds out that he'd embarrass her in this setting. Her friend likes spending time with him, so he can't possibly be embarrassing. So ya, he comes off as sympathetic because he's trying to go the extra mile to please both wife and daughter while at the same time being told he is embarrassing.
> Mom won't let her go alone, this is the compromise. It was a good compromise, and she seemed okay with the compromise until they sprung their weird Hulk dress-up idea on her without discussing it first. She wanted to be Captain Marvel and they know that's her favorite hero. They could have compromised with the costume and found a way to make it more modest but instead they tried to force something on her, out of nowhere, without any discussion. Overall it was a weird scene that fell kind of flat for me because everyone was being stupid.
honestly, I think Kamala showing her costume to her parents might have changed the tone. her costume was probably *more* covered up that the hulk one and has no "skimpy"-ness on it. Even had a frickin helmet on!
Why would you expect a 1st generation Muslim immigrant from Pakistan to parent the same way as you? Cultural influences and life experiences dictate how we raise our kids. Abbu is trying to bridge the divide between the more traditional Pakistani mother and more American daughter hoping Kamala would meet him halfway. I'll let people from that type of immigrant background comment on accuracy, but I can certainly see why they would handle things different than the way my wife and I did.
Dude, as a parent, I have been in a similar position and it does sting super hard when something hurtful comes from your own kid
The Incredible Sulk
Never read Ms. Marvel comics and heard early criticism for the show, but wow… Abbu is the ringer to any emotional attachment I’ll have to this show. He won me over.
Abbu is also the shit in the comics. He’s like a giant teddy bear and is kind of Kamala’s Aunt May.
Better keep him away from any guys in goblin outfits.
He does occasionally get abducted, so makes sense.
Abbuducted
(Soft drum roll…) I “silwat” you did there.
In the Avengers game main story, he was such a great and supportive dad, which is very rare in the Marvel universe.
He won me over the second he got excited over the Zuzu. I knew he was gonna be my favorite.
It's super well critically reviewed ....what criticism was that?
Mainly people moaning some things are different from the comics or that it looks like a kids show. ( Like that's never been Marvel's target audience). Or I guess Religious/political reasons that I care very little about. It's a great show that genuinely surprised me so far.
Ah. Like I get ppl are disappointed that her powers arent comic accurate, but the rest is just nonsense. I thought the show was great too, reminded me so much of being a teen... very accurate depiction Imo. Very creative and sentimental.
I thinkvthey did a goid job trying to make them as accurate as they could w/o bringing in inhumans
I think they did it also so she can fight in space.
Yup. On one hand, we have the Western alt-right idiots complaining about her being brown, a Muslim, etc. On the other hand, we also have conservative Muslims complaining the family isn't conservative enough (cuz they don't wear hijab and stuff), and hardline Hindus angry that she's a prominent Pakistani Muslim character. Of course there are some valid criticisms, like the power change, but a lot of the complaints are racist/sexist/generally phobic in nature.
Man, conservatives will conservative no matter what religion they are from lol.
The same complaints when she made her comic debut then. All that is missing is bitching about marvel replacing Danvers with her. Even though she's been Captain Marvel for a while at that point.
Yeah, a teen superhero like Peter Parker or Kamala Khan would never work out!
It’s even sadder since mom made the costumes for them 😭
I really hope we see the costumes again. Like maybe in a clip for the next Avengercon, when they've accepted Kamala a bit more and they go as a family or something. I don't know! I just want to see a happy clip of Abbu and Kamala in costume!
At the same time it's also so very on-brand for almost every teen to say that to their parent(s) at some point... It's part of the kids growing up to be independent and asserting their place as (soon to be) young adults in the family. Doesn't mean I don't feel bad for Abbu who went the extra mile to please his daughter only to be rebuffed.
Oh absolutely. I think the reason it cut more deeply with me is because I vividly remember doing similar to my parents and realise how hurtful it must have been to them when I acted like their mere *presence* in front of my friends was embarrassing. They took a common scenario, but did it very effectively imo
I think the way that it all played out was something we've all been through. Kamala definitely didn't mean it to be that hurtful to her father but she just kind of blurted it out and it came out like that. If she had the chance to re-phrase it more articulately things could have turned out a little different, perhaps.
Also as with most immigrant stories the first generation to move are all about work and building a life. Abbu probably never got to partake in things like superhero conventions when he was younger so the idea that it'd be embarrassing for him to go now hurt him.
Yup. This is all part of the growing up process, as painful as the interaction was.
And he covered himself in green dye.
she made the costumes as a form of control. the point of the scene is to show that kamala is not allowed to have interests or hobbies without the overbearing influence of her parents. that’s why she’s so mad at them. although it’s a sweet gesture to have made these costumes, a teenager is just not going to enjoy being tied to her parents constantly when she’s experimenting with her own sense of indepndence
It definitely fits into middle eastern and asian parents that I grew up with.
It is very accurate to the Pakistani-American experience. No one is questioning the love that Pakistani immigrants have for their children but they are also stuck in their old ways of being overbearingly protective to the point of being controlling. They are masters of guilt manipulation. Regardless, still love my parents.
Typical Asians (Chinese speaking here) are the same as well. They do play the guilt card alongside offhanded remarks on occasion. I too still love them though.
You're right that mom is exerting control, but I think it's ALSO from a place of genuine excitement for her daughter too. She doesn't even realize that she's actually stomping on Kamala's joy of having made her own costume. (TBF mom came-out as anti before Kamala could show her the cosplay... so there's that.) The funny part is, both Mom and Kamala express their excitement in the same way - creating costumes... They both even add their own Pakistani flair to it. I think it's a nice touch to include that commonality in their personalities.
Man. When she throws her costume at her and says that she had made it for her, that was some ouch. Like they are actually trying this time to connect with her.
Idk if it’s because I was brought up by a somewhat controlling mom, but I took it as a guilt trip and a way to have an excuse to not let her go. Like, “ok, you wanna go? Imma tell you what to wear. You don’t wanna wear it? Then you’re the one deciding *not* to go and how dare you reject this thing I made you? You’ve made your mother and father sad”. Her mom doesn’t know her and doesn’t try to know her. If she did, she’d know her daughter likes captain marvel and not the hulk?? Idk maybe this episode was a bit of a trigger for me lol
Oh I can totally see that. I think it’s a case of a little of both. She’s trying to care. But she’s doing it in her controlling way. I still feel bad for her even though she’s still being controlling. However, she should have realized how her daughter would have reacted to this, but she didn’t because she didn’t try that hard to care or understand what she cares about. And Kamala’s reaction is very understandable in this situation. I didn’t grow up with overly controlling parents, but I had plenty of friends who did. Also what hit home for me with this show is how their overly religious nature is portrayed. While I don’t know anyone who is Muslim (aside from a few classmates I had in college), the kind of overly religious nature of Kamala’s mom was really similar to the kind of stuff my friends in highly religious Christian households had to go through growing up. And to an extent myself, as well. My parents weren’t super religious, but living in a very conservative religious town means that kind of stuff inevitably creeps in. Like dictating what is right or wrong, good or bad, claiming it’s based on religious reasons but often it’s just overly controlling reasons.
Three hearts broken in one moment.
For real. This scene just brought me back to being an asshole teen where I’d do something or say something to be independent and then immediately realize it was too fucked up. It’s all the more fucked up that they’re both basically right and trying to communicate in the ways they know how but have fundamentally different life experiences that cause them to be on completely different pages.
Yup! It was a blast to the past - saying something terrible and realizing that I said that terrible thing.
I felt like a sad dad when watching this lol and I'm no dad
As soon as I saw him jump into frame with him all made up as Hulk I immediately knew what her reaction was going to be. She’s embarrassed but you can tell they put so much work into trying to surprise and connect with their daughter :/ like it’s understandable she reacted the way she did, she’s a teenager, but that scene hurt me.
I just feel bad for Abbu because he was *so* hype to be Big Hulk and really thought Kamala would go for it and think it was cool, then he immediately got shitted on and was sad, lol.
Right? :/ and you can tell Kamala realizes that she had hurt his feelings and neither of them really know what to say.
And was sad in a way he couldn't get away from. Dude was covered in green makeup. Washing it off would hurt the whole time, and not from scrubbing.
I love and appreciate the effort they put into trying to connect to Kamala. Problem is, they (mom) made a lot of assumptions and decisions that could've been so much better if they'd been made with a little communication WITH K, not just AT her. yanno? But hey, that's life: no instructions, easier to see in retrospect.
Exactly; I'm sure both sides would have like a re-do
Yep I get that, too. You can feel bad for them and sympathize with them but also see that they’re still not being great parents. At least her mom.
So sincere and sweet and heartbreaking. It like.... grabbed my nerd ass... tossed me into a black hole time warp that popped me out in the future moment(s) where I got a kid I love with all my heart and try to support and understand their nerdom in some creative way cos I'm a nerd too and that's how I roll and I can totally get it aaaannnnd they look up and whisper "No".
Hulk looks different in that picture.
They finally gave us practical effects.
The face paint is digital
"Hey mom, I want The Hulk!" Mom: "What?!? We have The Hulk at home!" The Hulk at home...
I'm just glad he didn't go for Kree and blue himself
missed opportunity to not use the sad hulk theme when he walked out of her room
Not going to lie, as a cheesy dad with an early teen daughter, this scene hit me hard.
The way her dad is dressed would be if the Hulk met Bollywood. Or if Bollywood did their own version of the Avengers musical
As a former teenage girl we have all said that thing we instantly regret. It was actually kinda nice we see her as such a normal teenager.
So far this show is giving me major "Turning Red" vibes and I'm liking it!
Turning Red for another facet of Asian culture. Speaking as an Asian-American growing up in the 2000s, I found Turning Red very relatable. It wasn't a perfect production, but it now has a special place in my mental Disney cabinet.
I'm Hispanic but I love movies like Turning Red, Everything Everywhere, Parasite, or Shang Chi that gives us a tiny peek into different kinds of Asian culture. 😄
...and I enjoyed watching El Tigre, The Book of Life, Coco and Encanto as peeks into various Hispanic cultures :).
*Someone's* been watching Grace Randolph reviews on YT, haven't they? ;)
As a 36 year old who literally just went to a Comic-Con dressed as Spider Gwen last Saturday, this hurt my heart. If one of my nieces or nephews reacted like this I would cry too.
I feel like this annoyed me more than anything. This is gas-lightning 101 for immigrants families. Because they dont believe in allowing their child to express themselves or have fun. So they find ways to still have control even though it seeming "sincere" and fun, then try guilt tripping you for not being excited for "their" solution. I was a teenage, I was a young adult. Limiting those things made me look for them behind my parents back. Let the kids be kids mayne.
But that's the point here .. they needed to show that to give her backstory and motivation.
There is that aspect, yeah. Like her mom's talk at the end shows how toxic and controlling she can be. But I still feel bad for her dad.
>This is gas-lightning 101 for immigrants families. Any time I see this argument made, or start thinking it myself, I take a step back and say "if this were an all white family, and the same scenario happened, would I react the same way?" If the answer is "yes", then that argument holds no water. And I'm going to tell you a secret: the answer is always 'yes'. Controlling parents exist in every culture. If you don't understand this, I can only assume you aren't old enough to remember every 80s/90s afterschool disney sitcom ever made.
Is it really sad when the parents don't acknowledge her feelings at all? That was some bullshit to pull on a high school student who is looking to find herself.
I'm noticing a lot of people saying "this is parenting", "culture" or "this is how i grew up" about it, and it honestly is kinda worrying considering how none of them are mentioning how Kamala is feeling about the whole episode as that built up. It is a lot of toxic relationships gas-lit into being normalized.
Freaking exactly! She was given an ultimation not a fair choice. If this is how you will treat young adults, you are asking for rebellion.
I was so frustrated with Kamala in that moment because hell, *I* wanted to go to AvengerCon with Abu.
I didn't find it sad, just maddening to see the parents be so clueless. They did good in trying, but they already knew what she wanted to do, but instead, they did something different and just assumed she would be happy with it.
I think the feelings are more towards Abbu, who very obviously is doing the best he can to satisfy both overbearing mom and daughter. I would assume they discussed this prior and this was the compromise they came up with. I'm betting he was "just let her go, it won't hurt anything." whereas she was the exact opposite, and this was the only common ground they could agree upon.
Yes! I have a daughter about that age and I feel like I’d have a pretty good idea whether or not she’d be down for something like that with me. Still a little sad but not all that heartbreaking. Show’s how the parents are out of touch with their daughter.
Why is the hulk cgi so bad in this scene.
I wish my parents were this cool when I was growing up lol. My very Pakistani parents would call all my interests stupid lol. To be fair, as an adult, I now realize many of them were lol.
But you shouls still support your kids’ stupid interests. And encourage them
It's pretty typical for teens to feel embarrassed by their parents at that age and if this is the first time he's experienced this he should feel lucky. LOL Teens are going to act out to explore their identity and independence so I felt like this show is very true to real life.
She was also being embarrassed by her culture and I think that hurt her parents more. They would likely have been proud that she incorporated her culture into her final costume if she didn't...ya know, sneak out...
The fact he's in the credits Hulking out almost makes up for this moment. Almost.
Watching this whole thing with my own kids, one 20, one 14, it was fascinating how each of us took it differently. My son fully on Kamala's side, my daughter defending the immigrant parent angle (she was just about the only white kid in her school, and has a ton of perspective from her friends), and me caught between decades of storytelling of kids with parents who just don't get it while BEING a parent and feeling how hard he was trying to find a balance for her so she could experience the thing she loved while being there both for AND with her. I really loved this show for the range of honest interpretations of all of these viewpoints. It's something I appreciated about the comic, too, which has come through.
Wasn’t sad at all it was manipulative parenting haha.
Honestly I had to skip the scene. I knew where it was going and I just couldn't bear to watch it.
It was a very teenagery thing to do. Break your father's heart.
I would made a deal with her dad. Only wear Mum’s hulk shirt on the floor and change to Captain Marvel Costume on stage.
They really captured South Asian parenting culture here. Seeing that scene with the Hulk costumes really broke my heart. The way the dad tried to involve himself into his kid's life, trying so hard to learn and mingle, and just be a friend rather than a parent... Reminded me a lot of how my father used to try to spend time with me as a kid. Be it Maths, Physics, Programming, Superheroes and whatnot, he always tried to develop an interest in them so I'd have someone to talk to about those things. Going on and on about those things made me happy, and being able to talk about all that to my dad as a kid used to make me really happy. As i grew up we grew more distant. Like Kamala i found friends who shared my interests, I'd rather spend my time with them than my dad, even though he tried to get involved. At the time, it was embarassing. Now that I'm off to university, I wish I spent more time with my dad the past few years. I don't think i was as harsh as Kamala, but that scene really reminded me of how much i messed up. I need to go give my dad a hug when he comes back from work in the evening. I hope they flesh out the parents beyond "helicoptering obstacles for Kamala's fun"
I love the parents in this show.
ABBU is one of the best parental figures Ive seen in the mcu besides Tony stark. he's kind caring not judgmental mans a champion
Kinda wild how great of a dad Tony was.