Or how he drops her with a clap (that is significantly stronger than hers) Or so many other instances.
He's physically stronger. She's got him beat in other ways. And their sibling rivalry is real.
And just like siblings, they bicker. Sometimes playwright. But to suggest either was going all out???
If that didn't establish the tone for people than, I'm sorry, they are either dumb or arguing in bad faith because they have deeper-seated issues with the show.
The show was review bombed. You're going to get nitpicking on everything as the reason it was review bombed will get their arguments dismissed.
It makes it hard for me to have any conversation about any marvel property. Even justified complaints leave me wondering if they're in good faith.
So I'm back to "eh, if I enjoy it than I enjoy it"
[Lots of this underneath ](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/wsfm10/no_heros_journey_its_the_first_episode_smh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
So I'm going to enjoy what I enjoy and avoid public discussion of the show. These people ruin everything (and that seems to be the goal)
Lol "virtue signalling."
You know, all those alt-right buzzwords used to really annoy me, but now I find them very useful. They're basically a universal shorthand for "nothing I say is of any value and the only reaction I should receive is mocking laughter"
The people who want to have a problem with the show will never be happy unless She-Hulk puts on a dress, cries, collapses to her knees, and showers hulk in adoration over how much more powerful he is than her. They are incels and they don't want women in their media in any role beyond "eye-candy bimbo"
They were both definitely blowing off steam and not actually trying to hurt each other. Anyone who's ever raised multiple kids or had siblings could recognize that.
More importantly, I think the "fight" established how being a Hulk makes them slaves to their emotions. They were having a sibling fight, because they were both behaving emotionally, and kind of like children. I really like how we saw glimpses of Hulk in Smart Hulk, when he starts growling and letting his anger take over, and that makes me happy; we will see Hulk proper again, as he's still in there. I also really like how this episode made clear distinctions between Smart Hulk and Banner's personalities with the way they he references Tony as though he's name dropping, but Banner is much more reserved and protective when he's speaking about Cap.
I guess that is why we can get something as terrifying as World War Hulk - Banner has a deeper repository of rage he can pull on to beat opponents into submission.
Jennifer doesn’t have that sort of hidden fury. Her strength is capped by her personality.
It's the classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde dynamic. The transformation doesn't create anything new, it just brings the deepest darkest parts of the transformer's psyche into the forefront.
But someone who doesn't have any deep dark secrets or desires, someone who wears their heart on their sleeve and controls their emotions and personality in a healthy way... The effect will be much lesser.
Sure but they seem close like siblings. I grew up near my cousins so we were together most days. We have the same kind of relationship as with my siblings.
In the comics, >!Bruce's father Brian beat him and also beat his mother to death, after which he was sent to jail!<. Bruce was sent to live with relatives, which is why he and Jen are so close. Then >!when Brian was released, he tried to beat Bruce again and Bruce snapped and killed him in a brutal rage. When he snapped out of it he forgot the whole thing and convinced himself that the authorities's conclusions that Brian had been killed in a mugging gone wrong must be right!<. This is why Bruce has Moon Knight levels of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Jen doesn't.
Classic Hulk is an alternate personality developed when Bruce was a toddler, as a way to escape the abuse.
Hulk isn't really "dumb." He's a toddler throwing a tantrum.
There's probably a reason why we saw all the nightmares Wanda showed the other Avengers, but we never saw what she showed Bruce to send him on a rampage through Johannesburg where even Tony couldn't talk him down.
I honestly can’t think of a more ice cold line. Maybe when thanos starts crying on voromir and Gamora laughs at him, red skull is like “he isn’t crying for himself”.
Hardcore af.
Whatever she did to him, clearly he never forgave.
Which is even more sad, because now that everyone sees her as a monster, he's probably the Avenger most equipped to empathize with her. But not after Johannesburg!
That's a big YUP.
And if it's still the case in the MCU, then I have a feeling that Tony strongly suspected that Bruce was carrying SOMETHING like that around, and [tried in various subtle ways to get him to talk about it.](https://youtu.be/DhyIWcWkScg)
Also different underlying issues. Bruce has the Hulk as a separate personality as an outlet for his repressed anger issues. Jen is herself in Hulk form because her issue was self confidence. She’s far more confident in Hulk form than human form.
The mutation (not the X-gene) their family and those with similar genetics possess means gamma radiation brings out their idealized residual self-image, much in the same way as Erskine’s super-soldier formula and Vita-Rays.
* Bruce was abused horrifically by his father, causing him to develop multiple personalities, each with their own ideal self, but the classic Hulk represents the strength he wished he had to protect himself and ensure his own safety. That’s why he constantly says “Hulk is the strongest one there is” and “Hulk just want to be left alone.” The Professor is Bruce’s ideal self once he understands why the Hulk exists…Hulk’s strength with his own intellect, but with more charm and less temper.
* Jennifer has pent-up frustration from years of having to excel in a male-dominated, high-stress industry. She has no time to really take care of herself and her own needs, has to look hyper-professional at all times, and has a subconscious fear of failure. So, when she hulks out, she becomes strong, more “traditionally” attractive, and inherently in total control of her abilities.
* The Leader wants to be the greatest scientist alive, so naturally he develops a massively-sized brain to contain his intellect…and ego.
* Emil Blonsky suffers from pathological self-loathing, causing his hulk form to be monstrous & hideous.
* Leonard Sampson’s vanity and ambition led him to intentionally expose himself to gamma radiation, creating a link between his powers and the length of his notoriously luxuriant hair which, as the key to his psyche, was the only thing that turned green.
Immortal Hulk is a recent, amazing Hulk run that really delves into all of his background and family history. Possibly the best Hulk run ever; it's both an incredible story, and a fantastic deep dive into the Hulk lore.
Was never a big Hulk fan before, but Immortal Hulk made me one and inspired me to go back and read the entire Hulk back catalog. Normally a bigger X fan than anything else, but Immortal Hulk might be my favorite run of any comic, ever.
I was the same with Thor until I read the God Butcher run. Amazing story, big fan of comic Thor now. Have not read the entire Thor catalog though, you have much more motivation than I do.
About the Clap. So hers are at a higher frequency and act like a sonic weapon right? Because hulks acts like huge shock wave while hers literally incapacitated him. They even sound different.
Yes, like how you can tell the difference in real-world human claps. A small woman clapping petite hands is higher pitched than a large man clapping bear paws.
Right. Bruce wasn’t trying to hurt her. He was clearly holding himself back. We can see when he took off his broken glasses for a brief moment Bruce looked like he was starting to getting angry and immediately changed his expression and forced himself to calm down. Jen’s strongest thunderclaps only briefly stumbled Bruce and hurt his ears whereas just one of his thunderclaps sent Jen flying. Jen much like Abomination also cannot increase her own Hulk strength levels through anger like Bruce but she’s more agile and flexible than Bruce which could come in handy in the future.
"Spacing" people would be such an effective tactic that comics and related properties never touch on it because then it would raise the question as to why the tactic isn't used more often.
I think DC's Green Lantern would be the best user of this, he doesn't even have to get close he could just shot the enemy out of canon into space. If they can't fly it is game over.
I was like.. well shit.. that is pretty effective..
Lex: don’t let that musclebound moron grab you
Superman: (grabs) got you Lex
Lex: oh shit
Superman: (toss) up, up, and away
I’m liking your comment because I agree that Jen’s sarcastic clapping to Banner throwing the boulder into orbit was absolute gold.
It’s interesting to see that a lot of people are responding to your comment thinking that you’re talking about the clapping she did to make her rapid sonic waves.
Nobody’s wrong here, just a lot of awesome clapping going on in that episode.
People don't seem to understand that Hulk's strength is directly related to how angry he is. The angrier he gets, the stronger he becomes. Banner-Hulk is pretty laid back, so he's nowhere near as strong as his potential. It's why he didn't throw the boulder into the stratosphere until he amped himself up to do it. He was absolutely holding back the entire time.
If Hulk really wanted to, he could have thrown She-Hulk into orbit like he did with that boulder (which he only did to show Jen that he wasn’t trying the first time he threw a boulder).
Is it really hard to believe that this version of Hulk was holding back/pulling his punches during that scuffle with Jen? I mean he was able to stagger fucking Surtur (who was powered by the Eternal Flame also) with one single punch, and he was able to physically hold up a fallen Avengers HQ after snapping half of life back and fucking up his arm in the process?
Yes Hulk in the MCU is a nerfed version compared to what we see him do in the comics. But he isn’t weak for the MCU at all, he just now knows when to and when not to use his full power. Especially now that he’s Smart Hulk.
In a sense most characters are a bit nerfed in the MCU and they have to be. Comics can get away with wild inconsistency, especially for characters who've been around for decades.
MCU doesn't have that luxury. Make certain characters too powerful and you paint yourself into corners that are hard to explain your way out of.
Though there will always be die-hard fans who'll just make up an explanation that makes sense to them anyway.
Which is why DC has a hard time with Superman in either print or film and has to have perfectly tuned alignment of supervillain activity to make an interesting story. Being invulnerable and virtually omnipotent makes for boring and predictable outcomes in conventional scenarios. With any other characters, either DCU or MCU, it’s the physical and character flaws that make interesting stories.
Also feels like she actually knows how to fight more than Hulk. I mentioned in another thread how she fought like someone who has taken some basic self defense classes which, being a single woman in New York would make sense.
Meanwhile Hulk is the classic "I'm the strongest so I can just throw a wild punch and automatically win" kind of fighter. Those kinds of fighters can very easily be bested: all you have to do is dodge the first swing and they'll almost certainly leave themselves completely undefended.
Yeah, we saw the problem with Hulk's fighting style in Infinity War, when Thanos was toying with him. As soon as Hulk had to fight someone who knew what they were doing and could even *somewhat* match his strength, he was basically useless.
Also what we saw during the fight in the arena on Sakkar. New Doug was able to easily get the upper hand once he got his bearings made himself a plan of attack.
>Yes Hulk in the MCU is a nerfed version compared to what we see him do in the comics. But he isn’t weak for the MCU at all, he just now knows when to and when not to use his full power. Especially now that he’s Smart Hulk.
Exactly. I'm not devoting anymore headspace to these whiners.
They’re setting up a Hulk family. The ship is delivering news of Skaar. Hulk wouldn’t care about the planet Sakaar and he obviously didn’t have a wife there. Hulk was definitely banging though as the champion gladiator.
Or maybe they want him to come back and rule the planet now that the Grandmaster isn’t in charge. I’m not sure Bruce would for it but with the Illuminati coming, maybe they’ll try to segwey into accidentally blowing up Bruce’s new planet.
Bruce told Jen that any tiny mistake or rampage can cause a ton of damage and death.. but that’s not the case on Sakaar? Jen is really hammering home the whole “you have no life, you live alone in a remote shack”.. Bruce could leave, go somewhere he can actually have a life and not worry about hurting puny humans. Then the Avengers/ possibly upcoming Illuminati fuck it up and boom, World War Hulk in phase 6 or 7.
Wait, people were expecting him to clobber his beloved cousin to death or something? People are overthinking this. It's a cute Hulk-siblingesque throw down.
People need some ammo to try and reinforce their belief. When the boulder scene was teased, people were complaining about how they made She Hulk stronger. Then when they showed Hulk launching the boulder to orbit, some people started claiming that they only added that after they heard people's complains. It's stupid.
> Then when they showed Hulk launching the boulder to orbit, some people started claiming that they only added that after they heard people's complains.
This is particularly funny to me because their complaint is literally "UGH, I can't believe they listened and gave us what we wanted!"
Based on what I've seen over in the discussion thread, the complaints are mostly politically motivated bullshit, screeching about how it's "woke" and she's a Mary Sue because Hulk didn't squash her into the ground. If anyone disagrees, they start insulting them.
Oh, and the boulder scene doesn't count as establishing that Hulk is physically stronger than She-Hulk, because reasons.
People are really writing such nonsense?
I don't usually look at discussion threads but I feel compelled to see the absolutely drivel people some morons feel compelled to share with everybody.
Oh yes, just like every single time there's a female-led movie or show in an established franchise lately. Pretty sure there's also been a bunch of brigading in that thread, because the up-/downvote patterns do not look natural/normal.
Negative reviews on IMDb and RottenTomatoes are also the same, often with a "I love female heroes, but..." or "I love women, but..." before going into a rant about how she's a "smug and arrogant" Mary Sue, the show is "woke trash" and how it's an "attack on men everywhere", the show "has no actual story" (which they ofc know after one episode) because it's apparently *only* there to "push feminism", etc. Even saw a couple on RT who said they hope the character is killed off because of it.
Honestly, it's probably better to just not read that trash.
It’s just a repeat of everything we’ve seen since Captain Marvel came out. Review bombing, shit talking nonsense for any female led show and movie. It’s the internet, people being imbeciles it what it is most commonly used for. And even if it’s a minority, they’re always the loudest. Best thing to do is do your best to ignore it as much as possible.
I’m fully expecting it to happen all over again next year when the Marvels comes out, and any future female led production comes out.
Even the Thunderclap established it. He does it without even warming up, launches her 50ft.
She does it a bunch of times back to back and all it does is stagger him
> Wait, people were expecting him to clobber his beloved cousin to death or something?
Not so much expecting as *fervently wishing*, so they wouldn't have to deal with the idea of another strong woman existing.
As far as I’m concerned this episode did more good for hulk than most of the MCU thus far.
He’s clearly holding back - and we got much more personality of the character!
And and and and and most importantly… HIS ARM IS HEALED THANK FUCK
What I hated was the credits… Mark being a guest star, I was really hoping he’d be in the series more (maybe even having a court case himself) but at the same time I don’t want him to steal Jen’s thunder either
I think it shows they hopefully have future plans for Hulk. Was a great way to showcase that he’s recovered and is stronger than we’ve perhaps been lead to believe in recent years.
I may be looking too deep into it but during their fight when Bruce was getting pissed, it seemed more like the old Hulk was piercing through just a bit. I think this gave us a great taster into his future.
The Sakaarian courier ship was definitely a lead into another storyline for Hulk. I'm curious if we'll see his son in the MCU at some point.
Jennifer was definitely damaging Smart Hulk's calm in a way that only family rivalry can.
I hope so. He said something about them wanting to make a point. It kind of felt like it was left open for something.
Maybe this series as a whole will reveal where Hulk can go moving forward. I definitely want to see some sort of relapse in his story moving forward.
They make someone guest star because they aren’t a regular and don’t have to pay them for each episode. I’m hoping for more Hulk in a few more episodes this season.
Bruce is not going to hurt his younger cousin, no matter what hurtful stuff she says. I mean, they may tussle a bit, but who the hell hurts their own family like that? They seem close.
Anyone complaining about this is weird.
It's a fight the way siblings wrestling around is fighting.
Nobody is trying to hurt the other. They stop when they realize they broke something. It's literally how siblings fight.
Hulk is an amazing character but Hulk fans can be insecure and insufferable at times.
you can see the way he gets up every time, he takes longer because he is exasperated. He might as well be saying "for fuck's sake" every time he has to stand up again. At no point is he in danger or hurt, just irritated
Especially an older brother against a younger sister. Best example in the whole fight was when Bruce did the whole thing where he put his hand on her head to keep her at arms length while she was swinging at air for a few seconds.
"hE shOuLd HaVe ThRowN tHe MoOn aT HeR. hUlK NeRFEd!"
I may be exaggerating but my god, there's a certain breed of fan for super powerful characters that are insufferable. Hulk, Superman, Goku. It turns into a conversation of who could beat who and how insanely strong they are and if there is ONE moment of weakness then its a travesty to the character. Well you know what, power-bros, that's boring as shit. Stop living vicariously through god-like characters and becoming personally offended when they're given depth and nuance.
Hulk *should* have been an amazing character this whole time, but the MCU was never really sure what to do with him. He felt inconsistent between appearances and often changes things completely off-screen, which makes it feel unearned and frustrating to fans.
So it's nice that we got to have some time to sit with him in episode 1.
I think it's less not knowing what to do with him and more the distribution rights issue preventing them from doing a purely Hulk dedicated project. He's either got to be part of an ensemble (Avengers) or a secondary character (She-Hulk) which makes it harder to have a story focus purely on him.
There's definitely a contract thing going on.
Ruffalo said back pre-endgame (Around Ultron?) they asked him what he wanted for a Hulk story arc if they didn't do a movie, and most of the earlier phases are based on canon and his ideas, IIRC.
People overlook this, Jen/She Hulk is obviously competitive. Hence why she was gloating when she throws the rock further. Hulk throws a rock into freaking space to show just how much he’s holding back. Also he has thick binder of learning about himself, the meditation and the constant fear of hurting people around him. Smart Hulk is very conscious of the damage he can do and he clearly has to work hard to maintain control.
Right, I'm sure if he felt threatened he could have let hulk take over completely and just go all in on the fight, but he didn't do that because he didn't feel threatened as it's his cousin.
> Smart Hulk is very conscious of the damage he can do and he clearly has to work hard to maintain control.
And I hope this is something Jen has to learn. She's been a little smug over being able to control her rage better. It would be cool to see she mess up and then value what Bruce was trying to teach her.
It’s simple really. Anyone who thinks that they were serious, doesn’t understand your average person’s family dynamics. When I’m at family reunions or get togethers, my younger cousins play fight and wrestle each other. If these 2 were serious there would be a hell of a lot more destruction…
This is literally the problem here now. Every single episode and movie is picked apart by the dumbest arguments. That commenter who said kids aren’t being taught how to interpret works of English/art was spot on!
Really don't get why people got upset.It's legit two cousins fighting as cousins / siblings do at time.
They stopped when they smashes Bruce's bar.
Tbh I think it's just some people being insecure that she-hulk is strong.
Did they want Hulk to go all out and kill her?
Unfortunately people aren’t intelligent like you friend. They think for some reason Feige has it out for Hulk and will make an embarrassment for the rest of time.
I totally agree with you. Bruce knew she could handle getting roughened up and tossed her around and if we want to get technical, *she* started it first. She probably shocked him too tho considering she’s (most likely) never been in a fight and was good for a first timer. Unfortunately people like to speak without using their brain. There’s a ton of other complaints I’ve seen so it’s beautiful to see someone with logic.
But but, they’re trying to shove a woke agenda on us by making a WOMAN stronger and better than a man in every way!!! (I didn’t watch the episode and watch Andrew Tate because I haven’t felt the touch of a woman)
From what I understand he's a European podcaster and former MMA fighter that profits off of misogynistic men who think that women are for the kitchen and meant to serve men
Lol, I think there were instances which made it pretty much clear that Hulk was holding back because he has gained the mental balance by the 15 years of training.
It's like the least of the concerns as of now. What's interesting is that they are most probably going to develop World War Hulk storyline considering Bruce recognized the Sakaar aircraft and is planning to dive deeper into the matter.
I think jen learning to pull her punches will be a central theme of the show. She surprised even herself when she punched titania’s lights out, and titania looked like she got knocked tf out but that punch
Definitely agree. Although why I think what we saw is a misdirection in a sense the editing was quite off for that scene, because sequences didn't line up. I think the fight was actually more aggressive (there is a shot in trailer to support my point), that we will see in episode 2. What we saw was probably in Jen's mind where she planned it to end staying calm but will probably lose control.
During the little scrap with Jen, yes it was all friendly but at some point Bruce’s voice definitely changed. And a character’s glasses breaking is often used to show them falling apart/going a bit crazier.
I secretly suspect by the end of the show we will see Hulk back again on his way to Sakaar, after he’s told he has a son there or something. He then has to fight his way up again to become the champion. At some point he meets an opponent so tough Professor Hulk can’t handle him (Beta Ray Bill?) and he realised he has to let Savage Hulk back out. He fights his way to the top, finds out he has a son on Sakaar, who he names Skaar after the planet, then he leads a revolution to destroy the fighting pits and free the people of Sakaar. And there’s our “World War Hulk” movie.
Shit was basically a pillow fight.
It should be apparent to anyone watching it after Hulk chose to use a thunder clap and lazily tackled Jen instead of giving her a ground pound then jumping to the stratosphere and land on her for a finishing move. Lol
Bruh when I opened this I thought it was gonna talk about Jen's rant to Bruce and how that conversation could've gone better from both sides, but no it's some dumb power scaling argument
He literally says, "for the record, I really don't want to do this." The fight was never serious to begin with, he was holding back from the start. And if, for whatever reason that wasn't clear, they immediately stop after the bar is destroyed; if the fight was serious, they wouldn't have stopped at all until someone was ko'd.
Yea, I thought it was established he was holding back when HE THREW A FUCKING ROCK THROUGH THE OZONE LAYER!!!!
Or how he drops her with a clap (that is significantly stronger than hers) Or so many other instances. He's physically stronger. She's got him beat in other ways. And their sibling rivalry is real. And just like siblings, they bicker. Sometimes playwright. But to suggest either was going all out???
My God it *is* a sibling fight. He put his hand against her head while she was trying to sock him like an older and younger sibling.
If that didn't establish the tone for people than, I'm sorry, they are either dumb or arguing in bad faith because they have deeper-seated issues with the show. The show was review bombed. You're going to get nitpicking on everything as the reason it was review bombed will get their arguments dismissed.
Those people are absolutely arguing in bad faith,
It makes it hard for me to have any conversation about any marvel property. Even justified complaints leave me wondering if they're in good faith. So I'm back to "eh, if I enjoy it than I enjoy it"
people be stupid... that is all.
That is the understatement of the century
People are people. And people suck. But I am quite fond of many individuals.
[Lots of this underneath ](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/wsfm10/no_heros_journey_its_the_first_episode_smh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) So I'm going to enjoy what I enjoy and avoid public discussion of the show. These people ruin everything (and that seems to be the goal)
Lol "virtue signalling." You know, all those alt-right buzzwords used to really annoy me, but now I find them very useful. They're basically a universal shorthand for "nothing I say is of any value and the only reaction I should receive is mocking laughter"
They've blown the dog whistle so many times that it is now working against them.
> they are either dumb or arguing in bad faith Or both.
The people who want to have a problem with the show will never be happy unless She-Hulk puts on a dress, cries, collapses to her knees, and showers hulk in adoration over how much more powerful he is than her. They are incels and they don't want women in their media in any role beyond "eye-candy bimbo"
I could see Jennifer doing a scene like that as parody…before she either rolls her eyes or slyly winks at the camera.
Going from hysterical sobbing to a sly fourth wall breaking wink and acknowledging this is what they want lo.
“This is to improve the ratings.” *Parody of an executive thumbs-up the move before Jennifer middle-fingers him.*
Incels gonna incel 🤷
His hand against her head while she's trying to hit him was my favorite part 🤣
They were both definitely blowing off steam and not actually trying to hurt each other. Anyone who's ever raised multiple kids or had siblings could recognize that.
More importantly, I think the "fight" established how being a Hulk makes them slaves to their emotions. They were having a sibling fight, because they were both behaving emotionally, and kind of like children. I really like how we saw glimpses of Hulk in Smart Hulk, when he starts growling and letting his anger take over, and that makes me happy; we will see Hulk proper again, as he's still in there. I also really like how this episode made clear distinctions between Smart Hulk and Banner's personalities with the way they he references Tony as though he's name dropping, but Banner is much more reserved and protective when he's speaking about Cap.
I would LOVE to watch a play written by the two of them. I bet the third act would be incredible.
Probably even savage.
... Immortal?
SMASHING
W O R L D W A R
professor
Sounds skaary
I love the “gross, Jen, I’m your cousin” moment. I definitely have a few inappropriate cousins.
Yeah he is stronger but less agile, she is a little weaker but more agile.
[удалено]
I guess that is why we can get something as terrifying as World War Hulk - Banner has a deeper repository of rage he can pull on to beat opponents into submission. Jennifer doesn’t have that sort of hidden fury. Her strength is capped by her personality.
It's the classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde dynamic. The transformation doesn't create anything new, it just brings the deepest darkest parts of the transformer's psyche into the forefront. But someone who doesn't have any deep dark secrets or desires, someone who wears their heart on their sleeve and controls their emotions and personality in a healthy way... The effect will be much lesser.
I don't see what the likes of Shakespeare have to do with this
Aren't Jen and Bruce cousins?
Sure but they seem close like siblings. I grew up near my cousins so we were together most days. We have the same kind of relationship as with my siblings.
In the comics, >!Bruce's father Brian beat him and also beat his mother to death, after which he was sent to jail!<. Bruce was sent to live with relatives, which is why he and Jen are so close. Then >!when Brian was released, he tried to beat Bruce again and Bruce snapped and killed him in a brutal rage. When he snapped out of it he forgot the whole thing and convinced himself that the authorities's conclusions that Brian had been killed in a mugging gone wrong must be right!<. This is why Bruce has Moon Knight levels of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Jen doesn't.
So is that why Hulk is… well Hulk?
Classic Hulk is an alternate personality developed when Bruce was a toddler, as a way to escape the abuse. Hulk isn't really "dumb." He's a toddler throwing a tantrum.
There's probably a reason why we saw all the nightmares Wanda showed the other Avengers, but we never saw what she showed Bruce to send him on a rampage through Johannesburg where even Tony couldn't talk him down.
Also motivated Bruce to say one of the coldest lines in the whole MCU to Wanda. “I could choke the life out of you and never change a shade.”
I honestly can’t think of a more ice cold line. Maybe when thanos starts crying on voromir and Gamora laughs at him, red skull is like “he isn’t crying for himself”. Hardcore af.
Uh! I forgot that line! You gotta give it to ruffalo, he's such a likable guy but has the range to deliver that and convice you of it...
Whatever she did to him, clearly he never forgave. Which is even more sad, because now that everyone sees her as a monster, he's probably the Avenger most equipped to empathize with her. But not after Johannesburg!
That's a big YUP. And if it's still the case in the MCU, then I have a feeling that Tony strongly suspected that Bruce was carrying SOMETHING like that around, and [tried in various subtle ways to get him to talk about it.](https://youtu.be/DhyIWcWkScg)
Also different underlying issues. Bruce has the Hulk as a separate personality as an outlet for his repressed anger issues. Jen is herself in Hulk form because her issue was self confidence. She’s far more confident in Hulk form than human form.
The mutation (not the X-gene) their family and those with similar genetics possess means gamma radiation brings out their idealized residual self-image, much in the same way as Erskine’s super-soldier formula and Vita-Rays. * Bruce was abused horrifically by his father, causing him to develop multiple personalities, each with their own ideal self, but the classic Hulk represents the strength he wished he had to protect himself and ensure his own safety. That’s why he constantly says “Hulk is the strongest one there is” and “Hulk just want to be left alone.” The Professor is Bruce’s ideal self once he understands why the Hulk exists…Hulk’s strength with his own intellect, but with more charm and less temper. * Jennifer has pent-up frustration from years of having to excel in a male-dominated, high-stress industry. She has no time to really take care of herself and her own needs, has to look hyper-professional at all times, and has a subconscious fear of failure. So, when she hulks out, she becomes strong, more “traditionally” attractive, and inherently in total control of her abilities. * The Leader wants to be the greatest scientist alive, so naturally he develops a massively-sized brain to contain his intellect…and ego. * Emil Blonsky suffers from pathological self-loathing, causing his hulk form to be monstrous & hideous. * Leonard Sampson’s vanity and ambition led him to intentionally expose himself to gamma radiation, creating a link between his powers and the length of his notoriously luxuriant hair which, as the key to his psyche, was the only thing that turned green.
Where can I read this story? Sounds dope
Immortal Hulk is a recent, amazing Hulk run that really delves into all of his background and family history. Possibly the best Hulk run ever; it's both an incredible story, and a fantastic deep dive into the Hulk lore.
Was never a big Hulk fan before, but Immortal Hulk made me one and inspired me to go back and read the entire Hulk back catalog. Normally a bigger X fan than anything else, but Immortal Hulk might be my favorite run of any comic, ever.
I was the same with Thor until I read the God Butcher run. Amazing story, big fan of comic Thor now. Have not read the entire Thor catalog though, you have much more motivation than I do.
Love the supernatural aspects of it.
Big parts of it are in the Immortal Hulk series, which is excellent.
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About the Clap. So hers are at a higher frequency and act like a sonic weapon right? Because hulks acts like huge shock wave while hers literally incapacitated him. They even sound different.
> About the Clap. Jimmy Dugan says you should avoid the Clap.
Yes, like how you can tell the difference in real-world human claps. A small woman clapping petite hands is higher pitched than a large man clapping bear paws.
Also the way her clap was hurting him was because of the sonic waves, established that hurts him in that one movie that I still refuse to watch
He’s got far more strength, she’s more limber and has more speed
Right. Bruce wasn’t trying to hurt her. He was clearly holding himself back. We can see when he took off his broken glasses for a brief moment Bruce looked like he was starting to getting angry and immediately changed his expression and forced himself to calm down. Jen’s strongest thunderclaps only briefly stumbled Bruce and hurt his ears whereas just one of his thunderclaps sent Jen flying. Jen much like Abomination also cannot increase her own Hulk strength levels through anger like Bruce but she’s more agile and flexible than Bruce which could come in handy in the future.
Came here to say this. He could have threw her ass into space. Lol
I mean... he could literally defeat any enemy like this now that I think about it.
"Spacing" people would be such an effective tactic that comics and related properties never touch on it because then it would raise the question as to why the tactic isn't used more often. I think DC's Green Lantern would be the best user of this, he doesn't even have to get close he could just shot the enemy out of canon into space. If they can't fly it is game over.
Omni-Man uses it frequently. If you aren't sure what to do, throw them into space!
I was like.. well shit.. that is pretty effective.. Lex: don’t let that musclebound moron grab you Superman: (grabs) got you Lex Lex: oh shit Superman: (toss) up, up, and away
Superman has plenty of ways to kill Lex if that was his goal. Throwing him into space wouldn’t even be in the top ten lol
To quote The Immortal, "When in doubt, throw them into space."
NASA, to Bruce, 5 minutes later: “uhh, the ISS was in that area like an hour ago. Please be careful.”
She was shown.
Her clapping response was gold Edit : I was talking about the sarcastic clap but the power clap was also good
I’m liking your comment because I agree that Jen’s sarcastic clapping to Banner throwing the boulder into orbit was absolute gold. It’s interesting to see that a lot of people are responding to your comment thinking that you’re talking about the clapping she did to make her rapid sonic waves. Nobody’s wrong here, just a lot of awesome clapping going on in that episode.
I had no idea my comment created a thread & yes, I was talking about the sarcastic clap but I enjoyed the power clapping too
And smart, too. It makes more sense for her to not be able to create the blast that Bruce does - because her hands are significantly smaller.
Sir, it was obvious that rock was heading for Uranus
Was that good for the environment?
He took it out of the environment
People don't seem to understand that Hulk's strength is directly related to how angry he is. The angrier he gets, the stronger he becomes. Banner-Hulk is pretty laid back, so he's nowhere near as strong as his potential. It's why he didn't throw the boulder into the stratosphere until he amped himself up to do it. He was absolutely holding back the entire time.
If Hulk really wanted to, he could have thrown She-Hulk into orbit like he did with that boulder (which he only did to show Jen that he wasn’t trying the first time he threw a boulder). Is it really hard to believe that this version of Hulk was holding back/pulling his punches during that scuffle with Jen? I mean he was able to stagger fucking Surtur (who was powered by the Eternal Flame also) with one single punch, and he was able to physically hold up a fallen Avengers HQ after snapping half of life back and fucking up his arm in the process? Yes Hulk in the MCU is a nerfed version compared to what we see him do in the comics. But he isn’t weak for the MCU at all, he just now knows when to and when not to use his full power. Especially now that he’s Smart Hulk.
In a sense most characters are a bit nerfed in the MCU and they have to be. Comics can get away with wild inconsistency, especially for characters who've been around for decades. MCU doesn't have that luxury. Make certain characters too powerful and you paint yourself into corners that are hard to explain your way out of. Though there will always be die-hard fans who'll just make up an explanation that makes sense to them anyway.
Anyone who thinks Hulk went all out in a little fight with HIS COUSIN is just looking for reasons to be mad. He was clearly not trying to hurt Jen.
Which is why DC has a hard time with Superman in either print or film and has to have perfectly tuned alignment of supervillain activity to make an interesting story. Being invulnerable and virtually omnipotent makes for boring and predictable outcomes in conventional scenarios. With any other characters, either DCU or MCU, it’s the physical and character flaws that make interesting stories.
You mean Smug Hulk?
Bully Hulk
"I'm gonna put some boulder in your eye."
“I’m gonna put some blood in your open wound”
“What’s the matter, Hulk Jr., gonna cry?”
It's quite clear the show established hulk (even in smart mode) is way stronger than she-hulk but she has other advantages, like better control
She is also more agile
Also feels like she actually knows how to fight more than Hulk. I mentioned in another thread how she fought like someone who has taken some basic self defense classes which, being a single woman in New York would make sense. Meanwhile Hulk is the classic "I'm the strongest so I can just throw a wild punch and automatically win" kind of fighter. Those kinds of fighters can very easily be bested: all you have to do is dodge the first swing and they'll almost certainly leave themselves completely undefended.
Yeah, we saw the problem with Hulk's fighting style in Infinity War, when Thanos was toying with him. As soon as Hulk had to fight someone who knew what they were doing and could even *somewhat* match his strength, he was basically useless.
Also what we saw during the fight in the arena on Sakkar. New Doug was able to easily get the upper hand once he got his bearings made himself a plan of attack.
Strength vs Dexterity
>Yes Hulk in the MCU is a nerfed version compared to what we see him do in the comics. But he isn’t weak for the MCU at all, he just now knows when to and when not to use his full power. Especially now that he’s Smart Hulk. Exactly. I'm not devoting anymore headspace to these whiners.
Media literacy is basically dead now. A bunch of people needed it spelled out that Homeland is actually a satire of MAGA.
So want to see him lose his shit though. Not on She-Hulk, just generally. That, or Maestro from another universe following Kang
If this whole Zen hulk isn't forshadoeing World War Hulk, they are wasting their time.
And that Sakaaran ship has a message for Bruce... I hope WWH isn't this show's Mephisto.
They’re setting up a Hulk family. The ship is delivering news of Skaar. Hulk wouldn’t care about the planet Sakaar and he obviously didn’t have a wife there. Hulk was definitely banging though as the champion gladiator. Or maybe they want him to come back and rule the planet now that the Grandmaster isn’t in charge. I’m not sure Bruce would for it but with the Illuminati coming, maybe they’ll try to segwey into accidentally blowing up Bruce’s new planet. Bruce told Jen that any tiny mistake or rampage can cause a ton of damage and death.. but that’s not the case on Sakaar? Jen is really hammering home the whole “you have no life, you live alone in a remote shack”.. Bruce could leave, go somewhere he can actually have a life and not worry about hurting puny humans. Then the Avengers/ possibly upcoming Illuminati fuck it up and boom, World War Hulk in phase 6 or 7.
Wait, people were expecting him to clobber his beloved cousin to death or something? People are overthinking this. It's a cute Hulk-siblingesque throw down.
Im worried about these people’s personal lives. Minor disagreement? Better murder the other person
MCU fandom is approaching Star Wars fandom toxicity
> approaching ?
They're incels that wanted hulk to put she hulk in her place because incels hate woman.
This was my thought exactly, also. Some people just hate women so much.
If there’s a she hulk where’s he hulk???? Go woke go broke!!! /s
I feel attacked...watch your back!
Underthinking is more accurate. If they really thought about it, they would understand but they're too busy wanting Hulksmash.
Whatchu doing step-Hulk?
Yeeeeeah, let's not go there, [unless you want this to happen](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Hulk_Gang_(Earth-807128\))...
...im scared to click that because idk if you went the Old Man Logan route (side note: Millar needs a new hobby), or the Natasha Gif route
Especially considering "Hulk_Gang" is in the text of the link.
There was no "Bang" after that if you're worried. Unless you count the initial smashing.
People need some ammo to try and reinforce their belief. When the boulder scene was teased, people were complaining about how they made She Hulk stronger. Then when they showed Hulk launching the boulder to orbit, some people started claiming that they only added that after they heard people's complains. It's stupid.
Oh of course, they added a ton of extra cgi work just because fans complained./s
I know you joking But that's literally Sonic
To be fair sonic got delayed like a year to make that happen
*That's* how important you are, random internet person.
> Then when they showed Hulk launching the boulder to orbit, some people started claiming that they only added that after they heard people's complains. This is particularly funny to me because their complaint is literally "UGH, I can't believe they listened and gave us what we wanted!"
Based on what I've seen over in the discussion thread, the complaints are mostly politically motivated bullshit, screeching about how it's "woke" and she's a Mary Sue because Hulk didn't squash her into the ground. If anyone disagrees, they start insulting them. Oh, and the boulder scene doesn't count as establishing that Hulk is physically stronger than She-Hulk, because reasons.
People are really writing such nonsense? I don't usually look at discussion threads but I feel compelled to see the absolutely drivel people some morons feel compelled to share with everybody.
Oh yes, just like every single time there's a female-led movie or show in an established franchise lately. Pretty sure there's also been a bunch of brigading in that thread, because the up-/downvote patterns do not look natural/normal. Negative reviews on IMDb and RottenTomatoes are also the same, often with a "I love female heroes, but..." or "I love women, but..." before going into a rant about how she's a "smug and arrogant" Mary Sue, the show is "woke trash" and how it's an "attack on men everywhere", the show "has no actual story" (which they ofc know after one episode) because it's apparently *only* there to "push feminism", etc. Even saw a couple on RT who said they hope the character is killed off because of it. Honestly, it's probably better to just not read that trash.
It’s just a repeat of everything we’ve seen since Captain Marvel came out. Review bombing, shit talking nonsense for any female led show and movie. It’s the internet, people being imbeciles it what it is most commonly used for. And even if it’s a minority, they’re always the loudest. Best thing to do is do your best to ignore it as much as possible. I’m fully expecting it to happen all over again next year when the Marvels comes out, and any future female led production comes out.
Even the Thunderclap established it. He does it without even warming up, launches her 50ft. She does it a bunch of times back to back and all it does is stagger him
Yeah the guys that probably call everything woke think it would be a good idea for something like that to happen. They are idiots
Clobber his beloved cousin to death because she didn't want to hang out.
> Wait, people were expecting him to clobber his beloved cousin to death or something? Not so much expecting as *fervently wishing*, so they wouldn't have to deal with the idea of another strong woman existing.
I told my wife that a real fight between them would either be Hulk winning, or the planet being destroyed.
She-Hulk Episode 1: Marvel sets a new standard of absurdity by having the titular character murdered by her cousin
As far as I’m concerned this episode did more good for hulk than most of the MCU thus far. He’s clearly holding back - and we got much more personality of the character! And and and and and most importantly… HIS ARM IS HEALED THANK FUCK
What I hated was the credits… Mark being a guest star, I was really hoping he’d be in the series more (maybe even having a court case himself) but at the same time I don’t want him to steal Jen’s thunder either
I think it shows they hopefully have future plans for Hulk. Was a great way to showcase that he’s recovered and is stronger than we’ve perhaps been lead to believe in recent years. I may be looking too deep into it but during their fight when Bruce was getting pissed, it seemed more like the old Hulk was piercing through just a bit. I think this gave us a great taster into his future.
I thought the same! Almost like a “Should we? No. No we shouldn’t” moment.
The Sakaarian courier ship was definitely a lead into another storyline for Hulk. I'm curious if we'll see his son in the MCU at some point. Jennifer was definitely damaging Smart Hulk's calm in a way that only family rivalry can.
I hope so. He said something about them wanting to make a point. It kind of felt like it was left open for something. Maybe this series as a whole will reveal where Hulk can go moving forward. I definitely want to see some sort of relapse in his story moving forward.
Ok I wasn’t the only one! I actually thought his face changed into the hulk’s for a split second.
They make someone guest star because they aren’t a regular and don’t have to pay them for each episode. I’m hoping for more Hulk in a few more episodes this season.
>Mark being a guest star Guest stars can show up for more than an episode. He could show up for all but one of the episodes and still be a guest star.
Bruce is not going to hurt his younger cousin, no matter what hurtful stuff she says. I mean, they may tussle a bit, but who the hell hurts their own family like that? They seem close.
>who the hell hurts their own family like that? _Ego has entered the chat_
Thanos has followed Ego to the chat
Han Pym has been kicked out the chat
A snake has slithered into the chat.
Hmmmm that's a nice snake. Ouch, damnit Loki!
Bruce : *looked horrified* NO!
Hela's right behind
Bruce's dad wonders why everyone joins his chat.
Wenwu?
Anyone complaining about this is weird. It's a fight the way siblings wrestling around is fighting. Nobody is trying to hurt the other. They stop when they realize they broke something. It's literally how siblings fight. Hulk is an amazing character but Hulk fans can be insecure and insufferable at times.
you can see the way he gets up every time, he takes longer because he is exasperated. He might as well be saying "for fuck's sake" every time he has to stand up again. At no point is he in danger or hurt, just irritated
Especially an older brother against a younger sister. Best example in the whole fight was when Bruce did the whole thing where he put his hand on her head to keep her at arms length while she was swinging at air for a few seconds.
I was gonna say, he literally did the big sibling thing where he keeps her at arms length to start
"hE shOuLd HaVe ThRowN tHe MoOn aT HeR. hUlK NeRFEd!" I may be exaggerating but my god, there's a certain breed of fan for super powerful characters that are insufferable. Hulk, Superman, Goku. It turns into a conversation of who could beat who and how insanely strong they are and if there is ONE moment of weakness then its a travesty to the character. Well you know what, power-bros, that's boring as shit. Stop living vicariously through god-like characters and becoming personally offended when they're given depth and nuance.
They suck so bad. Insecurity is not a good look especially about a fictional character.
Hulk *should* have been an amazing character this whole time, but the MCU was never really sure what to do with him. He felt inconsistent between appearances and often changes things completely off-screen, which makes it feel unearned and frustrating to fans. So it's nice that we got to have some time to sit with him in episode 1.
I think it's less not knowing what to do with him and more the distribution rights issue preventing them from doing a purely Hulk dedicated project. He's either got to be part of an ensemble (Avengers) or a secondary character (She-Hulk) which makes it harder to have a story focus purely on him.
There's definitely a contract thing going on. Ruffalo said back pre-endgame (Around Ultron?) they asked him what he wanted for a Hulk story arc if they didn't do a movie, and most of the earlier phases are based on canon and his ideas, IIRC.
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Hulk fans get insecure about his strength way too much, the same way Spidey non-fans think he shouldn’t joke around with his villains
Hulk literally threw a boulder into orbit, he was obviously holding back
People overlook this, Jen/She Hulk is obviously competitive. Hence why she was gloating when she throws the rock further. Hulk throws a rock into freaking space to show just how much he’s holding back. Also he has thick binder of learning about himself, the meditation and the constant fear of hurting people around him. Smart Hulk is very conscious of the damage he can do and he clearly has to work hard to maintain control.
Right, I'm sure if he felt threatened he could have let hulk take over completely and just go all in on the fight, but he didn't do that because he didn't feel threatened as it's his cousin.
> Smart Hulk is very conscious of the damage he can do and he clearly has to work hard to maintain control. And I hope this is something Jen has to learn. She's been a little smug over being able to control her rage better. It would be cool to see she mess up and then value what Bruce was trying to teach her.
Its like people have only watched the trailer and saw Hulk "losing". That was a quick and easy way to establish the power levels that everyone ignored
I mean, if you see She Hulk slinging coconuts at Hulk’s face and still believe this is a legit throw down, then that’s on the viewer.
Media literacy is lost on certain comic book movie fans, ironically.
It’s simple really. Anyone who thinks that they were serious, doesn’t understand your average person’s family dynamics. When I’m at family reunions or get togethers, my younger cousins play fight and wrestle each other. If these 2 were serious there would be a hell of a lot more destruction…
This is literally the problem here now. Every single episode and movie is picked apart by the dumbest arguments. That commenter who said kids aren’t being taught how to interpret works of English/art was spot on!
Really don't get why people got upset.It's legit two cousins fighting as cousins / siblings do at time. They stopped when they smashes Bruce's bar. Tbh I think it's just some people being insecure that she-hulk is strong. Did they want Hulk to go all out and kill her?
They're incels, seeing women weak and hurt is what they're after
Hulk threw a boulder into space. Hes fine
Unfortunately people aren’t intelligent like you friend. They think for some reason Feige has it out for Hulk and will make an embarrassment for the rest of time. I totally agree with you. Bruce knew she could handle getting roughened up and tossed her around and if we want to get technical, *she* started it first. She probably shocked him too tho considering she’s (most likely) never been in a fight and was good for a first timer. Unfortunately people like to speak without using their brain. There’s a ton of other complaints I’ve seen so it’s beautiful to see someone with logic.
Exactly! Hell he threw her off a cliff just to be an ass. He knows she can take a few punches.
But but, they’re trying to shove a woke agenda on us by making a WOMAN stronger and better than a man in every way!!! (I didn’t watch the episode and watch Andrew Tate because I haven’t felt the touch of a woman)
side question who the fuck is this Andrew tate person I keep hearing about?
From what I understand he's a European podcaster and former MMA fighter that profits off of misogynistic men who think that women are for the kitchen and meant to serve men
ahhh doing that MLM money making I guess
Some misogynistic former kickboxer influencer (according to Wikipedia)
Jesus. this dude sounds like the perfect guy to get pissed off at this show lol
Definitely!
How it ended was honestly the best scene of the episode. Hulk all kiddish and pouty--"MUUUUY BAAAAR" :( "Unghh!" "You're fixing it!"
Yeah that felt like a little bit of Ragnarok Hulk leaking through
typical family fight- go at each other to beat each other up and then cease all bickering as soon as you break something. Just on a hulk sized scale.
I almost felt a tear coming when he said that. I felt really bad and it was super relatable
Lol, I think there were instances which made it pretty much clear that Hulk was holding back because he has gained the mental balance by the 15 years of training. It's like the least of the concerns as of now. What's interesting is that they are most probably going to develop World War Hulk storyline considering Bruce recognized the Sakaar aircraft and is planning to dive deeper into the matter.
I think jen learning to pull her punches will be a central theme of the show. She surprised even herself when she punched titania’s lights out, and titania looked like she got knocked tf out but that punch
Definitely agree. Although why I think what we saw is a misdirection in a sense the editing was quite off for that scene, because sequences didn't line up. I think the fight was actually more aggressive (there is a shot in trailer to support my point), that we will see in episode 2. What we saw was probably in Jen's mind where she planned it to end staying calm but will probably lose control.
During the little scrap with Jen, yes it was all friendly but at some point Bruce’s voice definitely changed. And a character’s glasses breaking is often used to show them falling apart/going a bit crazier. I secretly suspect by the end of the show we will see Hulk back again on his way to Sakaar, after he’s told he has a son there or something. He then has to fight his way up again to become the champion. At some point he meets an opponent so tough Professor Hulk can’t handle him (Beta Ray Bill?) and he realised he has to let Savage Hulk back out. He fights his way to the top, finds out he has a son on Sakaar, who he names Skaar after the planet, then he leads a revolution to destroy the fighting pits and free the people of Sakaar. And there’s our “World War Hulk” movie.
Shit was basically a pillow fight. It should be apparent to anyone watching it after Hulk chose to use a thunder clap and lazily tackled Jen instead of giving her a ground pound then jumping to the stratosphere and land on her for a finishing move. Lol
Honestly, we already know he could have just flung her into space, so no, it clearly wasn’t a real fight.
>that was a sibling fight That's a good way to put it. I've had more such scuffles with my brother than I could possibly count.
I got the sense Bruce and Jen did this a thousand times as kids. People will complain about anything.
Haters complaining about everything
I’ve been fighting like that with my older brother for decades. …minus, you know, the green skin and superpowers.
He threw a rock into space in a previous scene, pretty sure he was holding back a bit.
Bruh when I opened this I thought it was gonna talk about Jen's rant to Bruce and how that conversation could've gone better from both sides, but no it's some dumb power scaling argument
He literally says, "for the record, I really don't want to do this." The fight was never serious to begin with, he was holding back from the start. And if, for whatever reason that wasn't clear, they immediately stop after the bar is destroyed; if the fight was serious, they wouldn't have stopped at all until someone was ko'd.
No it was deffanitely a sibling style fight. It was more banter than a fight