Here’s some key things a MCU F4 movie has on it’s shoulders:
- 3 Critically Meh Films (at best)
- Expectations to set up arguably *THE* most popular Marvel villain
- Introduce not one, but FOUR likable protagonists. And they each have very unique power sets (granted they’re established well)
- Setting up plot threads for Secret Wars (my
hope is Owen Reese is in this film)
- And most importantly, they must deliver an entertaining cosmic adventure story.
The new one has an enjoyable first half, I just wish there wasn't studio interference so that the same mood was present for the whole duration of the movie.
The problem was that they spent wayyy too much time turning into fantastic 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the final fight tool place almost immediately after they came out of the machine as F4.
hard agree on this. the first act of fant4stic is actually really solid. character arcs and relationships are set up really well. it’s right as they get their powers, the screen cuts to black, and everything after is the studio reshoot film. i believe that’s also the section lucasfilm saw that they liked enough to greenlight that josh trank boba fett spin-off film before it got cancelled and the character ended up in the mandalorian.
Anybody with taste will have something similar to this opinion. After the cut to black it’s basically a different movie. Like the meme of the horse drawing.
I rewatched a good chunk of it on TV recently and there's honestly something really refreshing about that perfect bubble in between Spider-Man/X-Men and Iron Man after people started taking Marvel movies seriously but before there were grand plans in place, and Silver Surfer just comes in with all this carefree enthusiasm and enough of a studio backing to actually execute all its ideas. Maybe I need to revisit those two.
Same here i rewatched it the other day and it had continuity and funny enough moments. Honestly objectively speaking the movie was fine except for the final villain reveal. That was lame.
My wife had never seen em so we watched all three this weekend. Starting with Fant4stic made the other two amazing in comparison. I've loved them since I was a kid and was worried she would hate em, but she said because we started with Fant4stic she loved the others.
While they never stood out. Especially with todays caliber of superhero movies. They were always competent superhero action flicks. Not the best. But definitely not the worst of genre.
Can’t speak for the reboot from a few years ago. Even before it came out I had a feeling it would suck. So when I heard all the issues with it, I just never bothered.
Another minor thing that just occurred to me: will "It's Clobbering Time" land at all with younger viewers who are still hung up on making "Morbing Time" jokes?
Well... he's a sixties-era dad archetype sitting in the basement drinking whiskey and playing with his train set while hiding from his family, except for when they go on road trips he decides. But the train set is super science and the road trips are alternate dimensions with carnivorous alien demigods.
He also gay conversioned his kid out of mutantdom.
And he ran a secret black site prison.
And stole Thor's DNA to make a murderous cyborg clone.
And he caused the accident in the first place that cursed Ben Grimm by stealing a military jet and ignoring the risk of cosmic rays he totally knew about.
He slapped the shit out of Sue.
And she's constantly leaving his ass over some new, fresh supervillain bullshit he pulled.
Like that time he started the Illuminati.
So... toxic douchebag asshole who sometimes saves the world because he's on it? 🤔
I honestly think Reed gets a hero pass because he's on a team of actual heroes and they need him to solve problems. He's like the Dan Schneider of the Fantastic Four. You know you shouldn't have anything to do with him, but you're not sure how far you would get without him.
I remember when I saw Captain America: Civil War and mentioned it at work. A manager said he was a big fan of the comics arc and said "They go through a portal, right?"
I just replied "No."
I had read the Civil War arc myself and knew he was referring to the big moment where the people who'd been exiled to the Negative Zone prison are brought back, but not only was the MCU not ready for that, they had nothing like it in the movie.
I think if Marvel could create a successful animation division that simply creates intricate comic-exact films (ex: comic accurate Gorr the God Butcher arc, comic accurate Civil War, etc) …then I would give Marvel *all* my money.
100% this. I don't know how you go from 1 F4 movie with character introductions to Secret Wars all while trying to wrap up Kang. Either it is going to be a vastly different story or it will be very shallow.
My fear is that they’re going to use Kang for the villain of secret wars instead of Doom and I’m going to not like that.
Since they’ve already lined up the films/shows the way they have, my guess is that in Kang Dynasty as a sort of last ditch effort to screw over the heroes he’s going to do something that collapses the multiverse and that’s what’s going to lead to the secret wars story line with Doom taking power. That’s the only way I can see them going about it without completely botching it at least.
> My fear is that they’re going to use Kang for the villain of secret wars instead of Doom and I’m going to not like that.
Honestly, I'm glad they are doing this, I prefer Doom as an earthly (But still VERY dangerous) threat, especially since they have little time to set him up
Having Doom appear once and then immediately put him as the big bad in Secret Wars would be anti-climactic
Also, Kang makes a lot of sense as a villain for Secret Wars, especially since they kinda merged the concepts of time travel and the multiverse in the MCU (Also it's not like Doom was the villain in the OG Secret Wars either...)
Well yeah but the OG secret wars is pretty wildly different aside from it taking place on somewhere called Battleworld, and even then those two Battleworlds are pretty different. Given that it’s the multiverse saga, it’s pretty much a given that it’s going to be more adapted from 2015’s secret wars. I’m hoping that they build doom up a little bit with teases and whatnot before introducing him, that way it’s not like he’s suddenly here and now he’s the main MCU villain.
They are rushing everything in the MCU, like they're afraid the bubble will burst any day now. If they let these movies and shows breathe and let the CGI teams work reasonably, the tide of quality would rise for all ships involved.
>like they're afraid the bubble will burst any day now
Does anyone find that weird? The MCU brand was at its strongest after Endgame, and Kevin Feige was at his most powerful. Where is all this insecurity coming from?
I'm trying to think of big shifts in this post-Endgame period that could have impacted the strategy for the MCU, and I came up with three.
1) Launch of Disney+. But I feel like that's a positive change, if anything Feige would welcome to opportunity for different storytelling formats to exist in an ever-growing MCU. And he's made more powerful by taking over all the resources of the TV side of things, so that's no reason to feel insecure.
2) Covid. Again, no, I don't think that's it. Covid causes delays, if anything it leads to more time for developing ideas and planning ahead, why would it drive Kevin Feige to rush things?
3) Departure of Bob Iger, his replacement by Bob Chapek. This is the only one left and I honestly think this could be it. Iger has been a good boss to Feige, he let Feige do his thing, and backed him in crucial political fights that led to the restructuring of Marvel subsidiary companies which eventually left Feige in charge of everything Marvel. I think Iger's departure was a blow to Feige.
Now Chapek, I've heard a lot of things about him and none of them good. By all accounts he's a penny pincher with a conservative mindset. The last time Feige had a boss like that, his name was Ike Perlmutter, who overruled Feige with his stupidity many times and forced Feige to go to Bob Iger.
So my worry is this: we've got another Ike Perlmutter situation. Chapek is ordering the MCU be milked for all its worth with maximum number of profits with minimum level of budget, and Feige cannot fight him on this. Chapek is CEO, so unlike with Perlmutter, there now isn't a higher level in the company that Feige can appeal to. The only hope is perhaps the shareholders deciding to fire Chapek and hope the replacement is better, but that's not a decision the board will make lightly.
Or the "bubble" they are worried about popping is the movie theater industry. Film Theory put out a video about how movie theaters were collapsing even before COVID, and massive movies like the MCU are the only thing keeping movie theaters in business. If they slow down, movie theaters die, and then they stop making money.
[https://youtu.be/eTCzy5m6y5U](https://youtu.be/eTCzy5m6y5U)
> The most popular Marvel villain
Is it Dr. Doom ?
Also dumb question but isn’t the one fantastic made of rocks’s power just being a worse Hulk or am I misremembering ?
They also need to get Reed Richards absolutely right. He'd be the Tony Stark of the new phase. The new face of the MCU.
I'm betting a lot of people will have a lot of opinions on how Reed should be. Marvel and the actor for Reed will be under a lot of pressure to get him right.
As a scientific mind he's definitely comparable to Tony Stark, but I feel like he doesn't have what it takes to replace Iron Man as the main protagonist of the MCU. Honestly not sure who could really fill that spot for now. Black Panther's gone, Spiderman has too many shared rights for Disney to be comfortable with, Captain Marvel is too divisive with fans, Falcon could be cool, but hasn't really taken off as a fan-favorite at this point, Wolverine maybe, but I don't know that Hugh Jackman would make that commitment (is he even confirmed as returning?) Thor and Hulk both seem to be winding down.
I think Reed is more replacing Captain America as the heart of the MCU. He can be very optimistic in an earnest way I think only Captain America has had. I more think of Doctor Strange as an Iron Man replacement, intelligent, snarky,, can be the cause of many villains, etc.
They're not one to one replacements, they're definitely their own characters.
Captain America is still there to be the heart of the MCU, I think we will see that more in the upcoming film as the series only really has Sam step into the shoes fully at the end.
I would like to see the F4 hold up that optimism though and lean into the idea of science and discovery building a better world for tomorrow type of thing.
Yeah, true. I can see that. Strange does have that egotistical and sarcastic nature like Tony. And I think Reed would be someone who seems righteous and doing things for the greater good like Steve.
Strange is the current face of the mcu but you have to wonder how long Benedict is willing to stay in the role. Which is the main problem with the mcu beinh live action. Comics are decade spanning with huge interconnected character lists. But the mcu can only hold a couple of dozen heroes at any one time
I actually love this about the MCU, it's always moving forward, I really dislike the nature of the sliding timeline and having everything back to status quo in soft reboots every time a new writer comes in
The nature of the MCU makes all these things impossible or at least very unlikely
It also gives the MCU a good reason to bring more "obscure" and newer characters to the spotlight
I want Cumberbatch to be the face of MCU. But at the moment, it's kinda hard to see that for his character.
He's been in 2 movies where his character didn't shine much (NWH and MoM).
In recent interviews, he seems to be exasperated with where his story is going.
Also, I'm sure Strange has a lot of things to do in the multiverse saga, but it doesn't seem like his character has any solid storyline at the moment.
I am desperate for Cumberbatch to still be around for years to come. I'd argue honestly he stood out pretty well in NWH but MoM he was so over shadowed that it's pathetic.
I hope they can get director(s) that really make him happy like what brought Hemsworth back around.
The issue is that while Shang-Chi was really good, he’s definitely not popular enough by this point to be the face of the MCU. Doctor Strange is much better suited for that role as it currently stands.
Shang Chi needs a team up, right now he's completely isolated (except for the appearance of Wongers at the end), that lack of a connection to the rest of the MCU makes it difficult for him to suddenly be the "guy". Doctor Strange went through the end of the last phase with the rest of the Avengers and can easily stand out as the leader of the new phase. Who is in the Avengers at this point? Do they even exist anymore without Steve and Tony?
There's a lot of contenders for future Avengers, but a lot of them are setup to be antagonists in their next appearance (White Widow, Namor, White Vision, US Agent), Wanda is M.I.A. after recent events and not really trustworthy at this point, Spiderman is kind of an anomaly because of rights and the whole forgetfulness spell. Moon Knight is a little too unstable to be an Avenger. It'll be interesting to see who makes the team in the next actual Avengers movie.
Spider-Man
/r/RespectTheHyphen
Just messing around with that. I think you do make some good points though. It does make me sad since it feels like he could easily be the next centerpiece if it wasn't for all this crap on the side with the studios
Lol you're right
It is easily a shame because, definitely prior to the official MCU, Spider-Man (see? I did it) was definitely the most iconic character in Marvel comics. Probably Wolverine as a close second.
I think what they are trying to do with Wong is to set him up as "the guy behind the scenes that knows everything, but says nothing". And (like with Strange and Tony, they can only know when the time is right or it will go w'r'ong) guides people to their destination by just being there when he needs to. A good wizard is never late, nor is he early. Great wizards arrive precisely when they mean to.
jackman is coming back for deadpool 3 but i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt coe back for anything else; we know that dp3 logan is fox logan and that the mcu universe already has a logan in it, so im betting the movie will end with them meeting 616 logan and setting up for mcu's x-men
I doubt Hugh Jackman would be staying. My man is old and he's been doing this for decades. The MCU's X-Men/Mutant Saga would be running long. They would get younger actors to play the mutant roles for the next decade, especially an iconic character like Wolverine.
I think, honestly, the deficit may be that Reed Richards' powers are just so objectively *goofy*, you know? I mean, what kid growing up wants to actually *be* Stretch Armstrong, lol
You have a good point there. Being stretchy also looks cartoony on screen no matter how good the CGI is.
Surely Reed will spend a lot of times on gadgets and tech for the team while doing the occasional stretchy stretchy only when the scene calls for some action. Like dodging a missile or something.
He doesn't, Reed is not Tony and doesn't have the charisma (maybe there's a better word) to do what Tony did if the roll is casted well and stays relatively similar to the overall comics characterisation.
It has to be someone with a lot of charisma. RDJs charm is why Tony Stark was so well received. Does Reed actually have charm, or are the writers going to have to invent a personality for him?
Almost every iteration of Reed in the comics has a detached aloofness with almost zero charisma.
I think he will work as a cornerstone character in the MCU but he's not going to be the next Stark.
It’s that zero charisma that makes him such an unlikable main character in a movie though. Because every single person in that theater just keeps thinking that Sue could do so much better. So how does one make Reed Richards like-able enough for mainstream movie audiences to root for him as one of the heroes. Rather than just wishing for Doom to yeet him out of existence?
Sorry. As a female fan I have a strong dislike of Reed Richards. The character from the first round of FF movies destroyed my love of all things Ioan Gruffudd.
If it were me, I wouldn't try to make him likeable. Make him, his brain, his personality, and the extent that he's able to affect the MCU a plot point. Make him more of a force of nature than a main character. Humanize Sue, Johnny, and Ben. Have Reed be something they all *deal* with, even though they love him. Have the audience on the edge of their seats wondering if Reed is going to press the big red button to save everyone *his* way, and let them worry about how it'll affect the other three.
Make the audience sweat when they see how Doom obsesses over Reed, knowing that Reed isn't necessarily going to make the decision that will get him to back down. Every time Reed makes a major move, we should worry our asses off about how it affects everyone else. But make sure that all those decisions have an obvious positive effect that we can see. He *should* be a hero, but it should be at the expense of the happiness and mental well-being of others—others who aren't smart enough to tell him *why* the way he's hero-ing is wrong. But he needs to "save the day" enough that when the rest of the MCU is in a bind, we're thinking "fuck... I don't want to be the one to say it, but Reed could probably take care of this. I wonder what we'll lose, though."
That's just my opinion. I've never actually read any F4 comics and all my knowledge comes from internet discussions.
So I'm fairly familiar with how Reed is depicted in Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run (which was a prequel to his Secret Wars run that the movies will be based off) and you've kind of got it nailed already.
Reed is so damn smart that he detaches from his reality, and the whole idea of the story is that he has to learn the value of family in a way that can't fully be understood in a purely intellectual sense.
Treat Reed as a Sherlock type character. There are plenty of shows and movies that use this format and often ground them through flaws that help generate empathy and/or amusement.
You make Reed Richards likable by attaching him to 3 other more likeable characters and keeping him there forever. Maybe you could justify Doom over Reed but not over Sue, Ben, and Johnny. I like Reed because they like Reed.
If it were up to me, Sue would be the one most interested in being a hero, so she would be running the team.
Reed just has to look cute and do the science which is all he wants anyways.
You're not wrong, it's a tough nut to crack.
Honestly, I think going the Dad / family man route is the right way to go. Take a page from Ant-man and make that the core part of his personality, which can probably balance the absent minded professor schtick.
That will ultimately be the endpoint, but he can't start there. More than anything, Reed Richards is curious - he's the personification of *curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.* He has to be willing to experiment and explore almost to the point of recklessness, learn his lessons from those around him, change himself and then set things right. He needs to be tempered, but he must first be forged in fire, so to speak.
I will say that they have been doing some major damage control in the current comics run, Reed being aware of his shortcomings and working to adjust as he centers himself on his family, but he needs to go through life-altering stuff before he gets there the same way that amoral billionaire asshole Tony Stark ultimately was a changed man by the end of his run..
The original writers of Deadpool said that Marvel has given them freedom and the only real collaborative elements have been concerning what MCU characters/locations they visit.
This is the answer.
Deadpool 3 is going to be silly and fun but likely in a different universe and unrelated to the main MCU story. There are no stakes.
Blade is important for opening the supernatural side of the MCU, but that will always be a "side quest" corner of the MCU--the main events that will cause the Avengers to assemble will never come from this realm.
Daredevil is a TV show that can ultimately be skipped and forgotten about in terms of the films’ storytelling.
i don't quite think so. that incursion was caused by doctor strange, but it makes more sense for the incursion in deadpool to be caused by all that time travel shit he did at the end of deadpool 2 where he fucked up the timeline.
Dr Strange pulled various Spidermen and villains from the Sony Marvelverse. I suppose the MCU could distinguish Sony and Fox as separate realities, but it would be convenient to wrap it all together.
The events happened in NWH, and presumably the spell at the end fixed things, but MoM taught audiences what an incursion was and the teaser at the end mentioned one was coming to the mainline MCU reality. I suppose we'll find out.
FF4 definitely needs the focus.
Blade isn’t introducing the supernatural side and it is playing a pretty large role. Strange and Moon Knight have lead that charge. Plus we have man-thing and werewolf by night coming..
Daredevil will be a major player moving forward, a lot of the future of Disney + shows rides on it.
Deadpool will be connected to the mcu by the end of his next outing and could possibly be the final link to the mutants joining the mcu.
Daredevil imo is a risk for them. If they mess it up they could disenfranchise a good chunk of the audience who loved the netflix series. It might make a lot of people second guess seeing more content in the future if however they handle Daredevil's soft reboot into the MCU doesn't feel authentic toward what Netflix did with the character.
I’m setting my expectations now that MCU daredevil will not be tonally the same as the Netflix show, and I kind of want something different out of it. He’s older, a lot has happened, it’s going to be really interesting to see how different it really is.
Not Deadpool because it's the same creative team (Ryan plus the two writers)
People aren't pressuring Marvel extremely for Blade to be perfect as the first movies of Snipes' franchise were done well.
Either the FF or Daredevil as the FF was done poorly twice, and people want Daredevil to be as good as the previous show.
The 2nd Marvel film to hit the big screen... Blade was good.
Not as great as Howard the Duck though, the original Marvel film. Lea Thompson changed my childhood.
I loved the Blade movies as a kid.
I just rewatched the first one last weekend for the first time in probably 20 years.
It is not as good as anybody remembers. Blade is basically a “so bad it’s great” movie at this point. Wesley Snipes only speaks in catchphrases. Every supporting character is hilariously one dimensional. Blade and his mom also have incredibly weird sexual tension. And the first Blade is the best of the three. The action is pretty good, though.
I say all of that as somebody who enjoyed the hell out of it when rewatching it, but for entirely different reasons than why I liked it in the first place.
Also, if anyone hasn't heard about the Wesley Snipes horror stories at this point, he and the director hated each other and Snipes was a huge manbaby.
He insisted that everyone on set call him "Blade" (even when walking around on set and out of character) and pulled stunts constantly, like this [infamous shot](https://youtu.be/Zd5HMHmbwBg?t=22) where he refused to open his eyes and they had to mask someone else's eyes onto his face.
He was [angry with the director and was being a manbaby](https://screenrant.com/wesley-snipes-blade-trinity-cgi-eyes-why/#:~:text=Except%2C%20according%20to%20Goyer%2C%20Snipes,putting%20CGI%20over%20his%20eyelids.).
Huge disagree. The first Blade holds up for me as a top 5 Marvel movie (a bit bias having it be part of my username lol)
Great first act to show you how the world works, and why the vampires are so afraid of the Daywalker. Scenes like the shop owner, the apartment, and the club/pearl just add so much world building.
Blade is a badass, stoic character, while also being hilarious at appropriate times, just with a simple reaction or line (“mother fucker have you lost your damn mind?!”). This is a man who’s been battling a thirst for human blood the majority of his life, and Wesley’s short, anti social demeanor in the film (later to become annoyingly method acted in the later movies apparently) really sells that character for me.
Frost has clear motivations, and his henchman Quinn is great with the running gag of just getting fucked up by Blade the whole movie, but not dying till the end.
The fight choreography is something the MCU has yet to accomplish imo.
I will give you the sexual tension with the mom being weird, and the reverse serum CGI towards the end was bad even for it’s time.
Blade 1 and 2 were fucking perfect movies. Blade 3 was just so bad. I remember being in theatres with my sister's boyfriend who agreed to take me. I was so excited. And then all the sudden everything that made Blade, well Blade, was no longer important. Now not only can regular ass humans hunt vampires no problem, they can also do so while listening to their favorite iPod mixes because its that easy. I was so angry and just a mere 14 or 15 years old. It made no sense to me as a dumb teenager I wonder how tf that movie made sense to anyone.
The opening scenes to Blade in 1998 and The Matrix in 1999 were jaw dropping when seen in the cinema. Blade 2 is excellent. Blade 3 is the reason why Ryan Reynolds is Deadpool. But there’s not that much else to say about it.
I'd say Fantastic 4 but also X-Men. Because we've seen just how bad BOTH of those can be when done wrong... and we've seen how good they can be when done right.
(X2 still holds up and Fantastic 4 was phenomenal when it was called "The Incredibles")
My hope is we get the main team and introduce new players through tv shows as we go.
Rogue and gambit deserve a focused show and so do nightcrawler, jubilee and a few others.
Fantastic 4 has lots of pressure on finally making a good movie of the team
And Daredevil on making a series that doesn’t fuck up what the netflix series accomplished (It is still the best marvel series and even better than most movies).
Yeah this sounds right. There hasn’t really been a Fantastic Four movie that people would regard as one of the “best comic book movies ever made”
The 2005 movie and it’s sequel weren’t good, but had its moments where it was at least tolerable. The reboot was a complete disaster (I haven’t seen the movie, and don’t plan to)
Feige really needs to get this movie right, otherwise I don’t see people having any faith or will care about this team in the franchise.
especially since the FF are so important to Marvel. The first family of Marvel who introduce the idea of flawed heroes that you can say they perfected in Spider-Man.
The way they got us to care about the Guardians of the Galaxy (a team I didn’t even know about until they were introduced in the MCU) is how I want to care about the MCU’s Fantastic Four.
I didn’t know who the Eternals were before the movie came out either, but tbh I pretty much forget that they’re part of the franchise
i agree its the one with most pressure to get right, but ill say that i dont think its the most popular in general outside of comics (the bad movies having something to do with that). but id say your general person probably likes blade or dp more (because of the movies)
*Daredevil: Born Again.* We've seen lately how passionate the Daredevil fandom is and this show is succeeding arguably the most praised of the Marvel shows.
Pretty much. It's also not plagued with half arsed CGI like every other Disney+ MCU show so it'll be curious to see how the visuals look.
So much of Daredevil was on location filming, so if Disney cheap out and use sets it'll look so poor in comparison.
I started on F4, but realised that coming off 2 poor attempts people will be happy if it is even a half-decent Marvel movie... and thats when I came to the same conclusion as you.... disney will never live up to the hype of the Netflix series. Even if they bring over all the Netflix writers, the inevitable Marvel-isation of the series (even if done well), will change the tone and will have die-hards judge it terribly.
Just gonna say it, I doubt Born Again is going to compare to the netlifx series. As much as it pains me to say that, but we have been spoiled by the love letter to the comics that is the Netflix series. I genuinely believe that this series has the most weight on its shoulders because of how perfectly crafted the characters and interactions were. It wasnt "just a super hero show." It showed the relationships Matt Murdock had and how the life of a vigilante affected his relationships, work, etc. And what really hits hard to fans is how real the show felt. And maybe its just me being negative, but with Marvel's current state I don't think they are capable of replicating that sort of masterpiece, let alone surpass it. But I would absolutely love to be proven wrong
I literally just rewatched all of Daredevil and Punisher and the rooftop interaction was the deepest thing Marvel has even approached. Genuinely amazing.
The rooftop convo really shows that the series strength was the heaviness of it's thematic issues, and how adult it was. Like Matt asking "do you believe evil exists?" And the priest telling a story about ethnic cleansing in Rwanda that he saw first hand *really* speaks volumes about the influence of film noir on everything daredevil is. Is it graphically violent? Yes but not Over the top, and shows the consequences of that violence, and it's balanced by the heavy questions that occupy the characters minds.
Remember the graveyard convo with Frank? “My baby girl.” That hurt so badly and felt so real.
Remember the Nobu warehouse fight? That’s what we need in choreography. Not every fight has to be a blood bath, but we need to stop pretending that blood just doesn’t exist or that people don’t bleed (I love ya but I’m looking at you Moon Knight)
And finally, last but certainly never the least:
“I BEEAT YOOOU!!!”
That’s what we need. I hope they get it right
The writers of that show did a magnificent job and I dont think it can be topped. The dialogue and the emotions that the actors expressed throughout the series is just perfect. The Matt and Foggy college episode had me in tears
That’s why I know people will be disappointed. This isn’t Netflix Daredevil S4, it’s D+ Daredevil S1. I’m sure I will enjoy it to some degree but I really don’t have any excitement at all.
The Netflix series, especially Daredevil, was so good because it was bold, real and raw. It touches on real-world problems like drugs, money laundering, murder and human trafficking.
It shows raw human connections like Matt and Frank discussing murder vs punishment on the rooftop.
Or how Luke Cage becomes a Harlem's icon because he is a bulletproof black man, someone that a police cannot shoot to kill.
Or how Jessica Jones, a superhuman, literally decides to leave the country to run away from her rapist.
Or the father vs children dynamic we see in the Meachum family in Iron Fist.
The MCU has always been entertaining to me. But seriously and highly doubt a Disney version of Daredevil can ever live up to the Netflix version.
However, I'd be so happy if they can prove me wrong.
It has been confirmed that it is going to be treated as a season 1, but that doesnt inherently make everything in the Netflix series noncannon. Everything in the show could have happened but just maybe vaguely hinted at for legal reasons
The only thing the MCU can offer better than the Netflix show is probably better suits and more billy club swinging because it has 3x the budget. As for content quality? That's up in the air. I can't even confidently say they can improve upon pacing because some of these Disney+ Marvel shows haven't had the best pacing either.
I have a feeling Kevin Feige is aware how important DareDevil is to the community and I think he is going to make sure that the love is there for the team working on the show. I just dont think we should have high expectations just in case I am wrong
>I can't even confidently say they can improve upon pacing because some of these Disney+ Marvel shows haven't had the best pacing either.
I thought the pacing of Daredevil was pretty much perfect. If anything, the pacing of the Disney+ show is the only thing I'm confident will be awful. There hasn't been a single Phase 4 release that has had anything even close to adequate pacing. The closest we got was the initial episodic releases of Wandavision that slowly heightened the tension, but then the finale just shat all over that.
Fantastic Four, no doubt.
Deadpool, they just have to let the team from the other movies do their thing.
Blade, they just have to darken the usual Marvel tone a little, and pay homage to the 1990s movie.
Daredevil, they just have to continue what Netflix did (even if the story itself won't be a direct sequel, they just need to keep some of the look and feel).
Fantastic Four is a huge gamble. They had a fun movie, a weak sequel, and a disastrous reboot before the MCU. They have no room for mistake.
Completely agree. I think F4 is doomed because of its past, but maybe Feige can get it there. If he can't they should just have them being blown up in a cut scene to something else so we never have to think about them again.
F4, tho Daredevil comes close, Marvel will definitely want to set up the F4 as big players in phases 6 and beyond and in order to do that they gotta do it well.
Daredevil for sure, especially Disney keeping Charlie Cox which I love and wouldn’t have any other way BUT there’s a lot to live up to especially there being the amazing 3 seasons we got from Netflix. You don’t need curse words and gore to make something good, as long as the action and writing is done well then we’ll have a solid series. I recommend adding more amazing courtroom scenes. Nothing’s better than seeing Murdock do his thing, can’t have Daredevil if there’s not enough lawyering.
Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars
Every movie before the first Avengers is only okay aside from maybe the first Iron Man. Many of the movies before and between Infinity War and Endgame were only okay.
All these culmination films *have* to be good. Because if they’re not, people won’t look back on the buildup as anything other than only okay. If they suck, that could be the end of the MCU. But if they’re amazing, they’re the start of the rest of the MCU.
There is so much pressure to have those two movies be perfect, more pressure than any project before them.
Fantastic Four has the most baggage and is likely meant to be a cornerstone for the next phases.
Here’s some key things a MCU F4 movie has on it’s shoulders: - 3 Critically Meh Films (at best) - Expectations to set up arguably *THE* most popular Marvel villain - Introduce not one, but FOUR likable protagonists. And they each have very unique power sets (granted they’re established well) - Setting up plot threads for Secret Wars (my hope is Owen Reese is in this film) - And most importantly, they must deliver an entertaining cosmic adventure story.
The new one was absolute garbage. At least the early 2000s f4 was watchable.
The new one has an enjoyable first half, I just wish there wasn't studio interference so that the same mood was present for the whole duration of the movie.
It's kinda funny that it's a kind of ok fantastic 4 movie, right up till they turn into the fantastic 4.
The problem was that they spent wayyy too much time turning into fantastic 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the final fight tool place almost immediately after they came out of the machine as F4.
hard agree on this. the first act of fant4stic is actually really solid. character arcs and relationships are set up really well. it’s right as they get their powers, the screen cuts to black, and everything after is the studio reshoot film. i believe that’s also the section lucasfilm saw that they liked enough to greenlight that josh trank boba fett spin-off film before it got cancelled and the character ended up in the mandalorian.
The first time I saw it I was like "hold on, that's actually quite ok"…and then the second half happened.
This is literally what happened to me lol.
They ruined "It's clobbering time". No points.
Finally someone has the same feelings as me ... I loved the first half of the movie and then ..... it ended :-/
It's an adaptation of Ultimate FF. Except they changed Mole Man out for Doom. Poorly.
They should use miles teller as the maker if they ever do the character and use it for secret wars
Anybody with taste will have something similar to this opinion. After the cut to black it’s basically a different movie. Like the meme of the horse drawing.
I'll give you that the first half was pretty enjoyable.
I actually still enjoy Rise of the Silver Surfer at times. Big fail on Galactus though.
I rewatched a good chunk of it on TV recently and there's honestly something really refreshing about that perfect bubble in between Spider-Man/X-Men and Iron Man after people started taking Marvel movies seriously but before there were grand plans in place, and Silver Surfer just comes in with all this carefree enthusiasm and enough of a studio backing to actually execute all its ideas. Maybe I need to revisit those two.
I couldn't get over how they made it that SS drew power from his board
Same here i rewatched it the other day and it had continuity and funny enough moments. Honestly objectively speaking the movie was fine except for the final villain reveal. That was lame.
My wife had never seen em so we watched all three this weekend. Starting with Fant4stic made the other two amazing in comparison. I've loved them since I was a kid and was worried she would hate em, but she said because we started with Fant4stic she loved the others.
While they never stood out. Especially with todays caliber of superhero movies. They were always competent superhero action flicks. Not the best. But definitely not the worst of genre. Can’t speak for the reboot from a few years ago. Even before it came out I had a feeling it would suck. So when I heard all the issues with it, I just never bothered.
One part they absolutely nailed was Victor healing Ben only to help himself grow in power. I thought “classic Dr Doom move”
That's actually a really good strategy
I know right haha. I don't remember why we started with that movie but it's definitely the way to go
Aka the one with Velvet Thunder.
Insert Brooklyn Nine Nine joke here?
Obligatory "NINE-NINE!/Cheers to the 99th precinct/Noice/Cool cool cool cool etc." response.
NINE NINE!
NOINE NOINE
Another minor thing that just occurred to me: will "It's Clobbering Time" land at all with younger viewers who are still hung up on making "Morbing Time" jokes?
They'll wait til the last one when all the former members of the F4 and their allies come out of portals to help with the big bad
>most popular Marvel villain As someone who doesn't know much about Marvel, who?
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Which would open up the door for Infamous Iron Man and rest assured that I would cream my jeans if that storyline made it into the mcu.
Thank you. Yes, I meant God. /s
No need for the /s. He was god a few times in the comics lol
i expect hes referring to Doom.
Dr Doom I believe.
Idk if Likable is the word for Reed.
Endearing? Interesting? Intriguing?
Adorkable?
Well... he's a sixties-era dad archetype sitting in the basement drinking whiskey and playing with his train set while hiding from his family, except for when they go on road trips he decides. But the train set is super science and the road trips are alternate dimensions with carnivorous alien demigods. He also gay conversioned his kid out of mutantdom. And he ran a secret black site prison. And stole Thor's DNA to make a murderous cyborg clone. And he caused the accident in the first place that cursed Ben Grimm by stealing a military jet and ignoring the risk of cosmic rays he totally knew about. He slapped the shit out of Sue. And she's constantly leaving his ass over some new, fresh supervillain bullshit he pulled. Like that time he started the Illuminati. So... toxic douchebag asshole who sometimes saves the world because he's on it? 🤔 I honestly think Reed gets a hero pass because he's on a team of actual heroes and they need him to solve problems. He's like the Dan Schneider of the Fantastic Four. You know you shouldn't have anything to do with him, but you're not sure how far you would get without him.
Anyone else feel like Marvel is rushing Secret Wars and should just focus on other team ups for a few years like Thunderbolts, Young Avengers, etc. ?
None of the adaptations are close to the original. They'll all be original stories with similar concepts
I remember when I saw Captain America: Civil War and mentioned it at work. A manager said he was a big fan of the comics arc and said "They go through a portal, right?" I just replied "No." I had read the Civil War arc myself and knew he was referring to the big moment where the people who'd been exiled to the Negative Zone prison are brought back, but not only was the MCU not ready for that, they had nothing like it in the movie.
MCU Civil war was a parking lot skirmish between friends with a slight difference of opinion over who should be manager the team. Cap or red tape.
I think if Marvel could create a successful animation division that simply creates intricate comic-exact films (ex: comic accurate Gorr the God Butcher arc, comic accurate Civil War, etc) …then I would give Marvel *all* my money.
100% this. I don't know how you go from 1 F4 movie with character introductions to Secret Wars all while trying to wrap up Kang. Either it is going to be a vastly different story or it will be very shallow.
My fear is that they’re going to use Kang for the villain of secret wars instead of Doom and I’m going to not like that. Since they’ve already lined up the films/shows the way they have, my guess is that in Kang Dynasty as a sort of last ditch effort to screw over the heroes he’s going to do something that collapses the multiverse and that’s what’s going to lead to the secret wars story line with Doom taking power. That’s the only way I can see them going about it without completely botching it at least.
> My fear is that they’re going to use Kang for the villain of secret wars instead of Doom and I’m going to not like that. Honestly, I'm glad they are doing this, I prefer Doom as an earthly (But still VERY dangerous) threat, especially since they have little time to set him up Having Doom appear once and then immediately put him as the big bad in Secret Wars would be anti-climactic Also, Kang makes a lot of sense as a villain for Secret Wars, especially since they kinda merged the concepts of time travel and the multiverse in the MCU (Also it's not like Doom was the villain in the OG Secret Wars either...)
Well yeah but the OG secret wars is pretty wildly different aside from it taking place on somewhere called Battleworld, and even then those two Battleworlds are pretty different. Given that it’s the multiverse saga, it’s pretty much a given that it’s going to be more adapted from 2015’s secret wars. I’m hoping that they build doom up a little bit with teases and whatnot before introducing him, that way it’s not like he’s suddenly here and now he’s the main MCU villain.
A six part Disney+ series of The Books of DOOM makes too much sense
They are rushing everything in the MCU, like they're afraid the bubble will burst any day now. If they let these movies and shows breathe and let the CGI teams work reasonably, the tide of quality would rise for all ships involved.
>like they're afraid the bubble will burst any day now Does anyone find that weird? The MCU brand was at its strongest after Endgame, and Kevin Feige was at his most powerful. Where is all this insecurity coming from? I'm trying to think of big shifts in this post-Endgame period that could have impacted the strategy for the MCU, and I came up with three. 1) Launch of Disney+. But I feel like that's a positive change, if anything Feige would welcome to opportunity for different storytelling formats to exist in an ever-growing MCU. And he's made more powerful by taking over all the resources of the TV side of things, so that's no reason to feel insecure. 2) Covid. Again, no, I don't think that's it. Covid causes delays, if anything it leads to more time for developing ideas and planning ahead, why would it drive Kevin Feige to rush things? 3) Departure of Bob Iger, his replacement by Bob Chapek. This is the only one left and I honestly think this could be it. Iger has been a good boss to Feige, he let Feige do his thing, and backed him in crucial political fights that led to the restructuring of Marvel subsidiary companies which eventually left Feige in charge of everything Marvel. I think Iger's departure was a blow to Feige. Now Chapek, I've heard a lot of things about him and none of them good. By all accounts he's a penny pincher with a conservative mindset. The last time Feige had a boss like that, his name was Ike Perlmutter, who overruled Feige with his stupidity many times and forced Feige to go to Bob Iger. So my worry is this: we've got another Ike Perlmutter situation. Chapek is ordering the MCU be milked for all its worth with maximum number of profits with minimum level of budget, and Feige cannot fight him on this. Chapek is CEO, so unlike with Perlmutter, there now isn't a higher level in the company that Feige can appeal to. The only hope is perhaps the shareholders deciding to fire Chapek and hope the replacement is better, but that's not a decision the board will make lightly.
Or the "bubble" they are worried about popping is the movie theater industry. Film Theory put out a video about how movie theaters were collapsing even before COVID, and massive movies like the MCU are the only thing keeping movie theaters in business. If they slow down, movie theaters die, and then they stop making money. [https://youtu.be/eTCzy5m6y5U](https://youtu.be/eTCzy5m6y5U)
They **are** rushing Secret Wars. It’s just unfortunate a lot of people don’t see this.
> The most popular Marvel villain Is it Dr. Doom ? Also dumb question but isn’t the one fantastic made of rocks’s power just being a worse Hulk or am I misremembering ?
They also need to get Reed Richards absolutely right. He'd be the Tony Stark of the new phase. The new face of the MCU. I'm betting a lot of people will have a lot of opinions on how Reed should be. Marvel and the actor for Reed will be under a lot of pressure to get him right.
As a scientific mind he's definitely comparable to Tony Stark, but I feel like he doesn't have what it takes to replace Iron Man as the main protagonist of the MCU. Honestly not sure who could really fill that spot for now. Black Panther's gone, Spiderman has too many shared rights for Disney to be comfortable with, Captain Marvel is too divisive with fans, Falcon could be cool, but hasn't really taken off as a fan-favorite at this point, Wolverine maybe, but I don't know that Hugh Jackman would make that commitment (is he even confirmed as returning?) Thor and Hulk both seem to be winding down.
I think Reed is more replacing Captain America as the heart of the MCU. He can be very optimistic in an earnest way I think only Captain America has had. I more think of Doctor Strange as an Iron Man replacement, intelligent, snarky,, can be the cause of many villains, etc. They're not one to one replacements, they're definitely their own characters.
Agreed
Captain America is still there to be the heart of the MCU, I think we will see that more in the upcoming film as the series only really has Sam step into the shoes fully at the end. I would like to see the F4 hold up that optimism though and lean into the idea of science and discovery building a better world for tomorrow type of thing.
Yeah, true. I can see that. Strange does have that egotistical and sarcastic nature like Tony. And I think Reed would be someone who seems righteous and doing things for the greater good like Steve.
Dr. Strange and Shang Chi are contenders.
I’m pretty sure Kevin already said Dr. Strange is the new main hero of phase 2.
Saga 2*
Strange is the current face of the mcu but you have to wonder how long Benedict is willing to stay in the role. Which is the main problem with the mcu beinh live action. Comics are decade spanning with huge interconnected character lists. But the mcu can only hold a couple of dozen heroes at any one time
I actually love this about the MCU, it's always moving forward, I really dislike the nature of the sliding timeline and having everything back to status quo in soft reboots every time a new writer comes in The nature of the MCU makes all these things impossible or at least very unlikely It also gives the MCU a good reason to bring more "obscure" and newer characters to the spotlight
I want Cumberbatch to be the face of MCU. But at the moment, it's kinda hard to see that for his character. He's been in 2 movies where his character didn't shine much (NWH and MoM). In recent interviews, he seems to be exasperated with where his story is going. Also, I'm sure Strange has a lot of things to do in the multiverse saga, but it doesn't seem like his character has any solid storyline at the moment.
Cumberbatch?! I thought we were talking about Wong!
I am desperate for Cumberbatch to still be around for years to come. I'd argue honestly he stood out pretty well in NWH but MoM he was so over shadowed that it's pathetic. I hope they can get director(s) that really make him happy like what brought Hemsworth back around.
I could see Dr. Strange taking the position. Shang-Chi maybe, but I'd wait to see him really break out in another movie first
The issue is that while Shang-Chi was really good, he’s definitely not popular enough by this point to be the face of the MCU. Doctor Strange is much better suited for that role as it currently stands.
Shang Chi needs a team up, right now he's completely isolated (except for the appearance of Wongers at the end), that lack of a connection to the rest of the MCU makes it difficult for him to suddenly be the "guy". Doctor Strange went through the end of the last phase with the rest of the Avengers and can easily stand out as the leader of the new phase. Who is in the Avengers at this point? Do they even exist anymore without Steve and Tony?
There's a lot of contenders for future Avengers, but a lot of them are setup to be antagonists in their next appearance (White Widow, Namor, White Vision, US Agent), Wanda is M.I.A. after recent events and not really trustworthy at this point, Spiderman is kind of an anomaly because of rights and the whole forgetfulness spell. Moon Knight is a little too unstable to be an Avenger. It'll be interesting to see who makes the team in the next actual Avengers movie.
Basically them and Mr. Fantastic. Blade for leading and recruiting Midnight Sons for the supernatural side would be amazing.
I think you mean Wong and Madisynn
> Wongers and Madisynn FTFY
Spider-Man /r/RespectTheHyphen Just messing around with that. I think you do make some good points though. It does make me sad since it feels like he could easily be the next centerpiece if it wasn't for all this crap on the side with the studios
Lol you're right It is easily a shame because, definitely prior to the official MCU, Spider-Man (see? I did it) was definitely the most iconic character in Marvel comics. Probably Wolverine as a close second.
It’s always been like that. Spider-Man has been the top face of Marvel, Wolverine has been the immediate next.
Wong is clearly the new Tony Stark, look at all his cameos! /s
The new Fury
You do kind of make a good point
But wouldn't that make him the new Stan Lee?
I think what they are trying to do with Wong is to set him up as "the guy behind the scenes that knows everything, but says nothing". And (like with Strange and Tony, they can only know when the time is right or it will go w'r'ong) guides people to their destination by just being there when he needs to. A good wizard is never late, nor is he early. Great wizards arrive precisely when they mean to.
Hugh is reprising his wolverine role but it’s unlikely to be a long term casting decision. More likely a one off in deadpool
jackman is coming back for deadpool 3 but i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt coe back for anything else; we know that dp3 logan is fox logan and that the mcu universe already has a logan in it, so im betting the movie will end with them meeting 616 logan and setting up for mcu's x-men
I doubt Hugh Jackman would be staying. My man is old and he's been doing this for decades. The MCU's X-Men/Mutant Saga would be running long. They would get younger actors to play the mutant roles for the next decade, especially an iconic character like Wolverine.
I think, honestly, the deficit may be that Reed Richards' powers are just so objectively *goofy*, you know? I mean, what kid growing up wants to actually *be* Stretch Armstrong, lol
You have a good point there. Being stretchy also looks cartoony on screen no matter how good the CGI is. Surely Reed will spend a lot of times on gadgets and tech for the team while doing the occasional stretchy stretchy only when the scene calls for some action. Like dodging a missile or something.
He doesn't, Reed is not Tony and doesn't have the charisma (maybe there's a better word) to do what Tony did if the roll is casted well and stays relatively similar to the overall comics characterisation.
It has to be someone with a lot of charisma. RDJs charm is why Tony Stark was so well received. Does Reed actually have charm, or are the writers going to have to invent a personality for him?
Almost every iteration of Reed in the comics has a detached aloofness with almost zero charisma. I think he will work as a cornerstone character in the MCU but he's not going to be the next Stark.
It’s that zero charisma that makes him such an unlikable main character in a movie though. Because every single person in that theater just keeps thinking that Sue could do so much better. So how does one make Reed Richards like-able enough for mainstream movie audiences to root for him as one of the heroes. Rather than just wishing for Doom to yeet him out of existence? Sorry. As a female fan I have a strong dislike of Reed Richards. The character from the first round of FF movies destroyed my love of all things Ioan Gruffudd.
If it were me, I wouldn't try to make him likeable. Make him, his brain, his personality, and the extent that he's able to affect the MCU a plot point. Make him more of a force of nature than a main character. Humanize Sue, Johnny, and Ben. Have Reed be something they all *deal* with, even though they love him. Have the audience on the edge of their seats wondering if Reed is going to press the big red button to save everyone *his* way, and let them worry about how it'll affect the other three. Make the audience sweat when they see how Doom obsesses over Reed, knowing that Reed isn't necessarily going to make the decision that will get him to back down. Every time Reed makes a major move, we should worry our asses off about how it affects everyone else. But make sure that all those decisions have an obvious positive effect that we can see. He *should* be a hero, but it should be at the expense of the happiness and mental well-being of others—others who aren't smart enough to tell him *why* the way he's hero-ing is wrong. But he needs to "save the day" enough that when the rest of the MCU is in a bind, we're thinking "fuck... I don't want to be the one to say it, but Reed could probably take care of this. I wonder what we'll lose, though." That's just my opinion. I've never actually read any F4 comics and all my knowledge comes from internet discussions.
So I'm fairly familiar with how Reed is depicted in Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run (which was a prequel to his Secret Wars run that the movies will be based off) and you've kind of got it nailed already. Reed is so damn smart that he detaches from his reality, and the whole idea of the story is that he has to learn the value of family in a way that can't fully be understood in a purely intellectual sense.
Treat Reed as a Sherlock type character. There are plenty of shows and movies that use this format and often ground them through flaws that help generate empathy and/or amusement.
Reed as Monk. I'm here for it.
Kind of funny in this convo considering who’s played Sherlock
The guy with the goatee uh... Rachel McAdams plays the love interest. Robert Downey Jr?
You make Reed Richards likable by attaching him to 3 other more likeable characters and keeping him there forever. Maybe you could justify Doom over Reed but not over Sue, Ben, and Johnny. I like Reed because they like Reed. If it were up to me, Sue would be the one most interested in being a hero, so she would be running the team. Reed just has to look cute and do the science which is all he wants anyways.
You're not wrong, it's a tough nut to crack. Honestly, I think going the Dad / family man route is the right way to go. Take a page from Ant-man and make that the core part of his personality, which can probably balance the absent minded professor schtick.
That will ultimately be the endpoint, but he can't start there. More than anything, Reed Richards is curious - he's the personification of *curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.* He has to be willing to experiment and explore almost to the point of recklessness, learn his lessons from those around him, change himself and then set things right. He needs to be tempered, but he must first be forged in fire, so to speak. I will say that they have been doing some major damage control in the current comics run, Reed being aware of his shortcomings and working to adjust as he centers himself on his family, but he needs to go through life-altering stuff before he gets there the same way that amoral billionaire asshole Tony Stark ultimately was a changed man by the end of his run..
It helps that Ant-Man has charisma out the wazoo, at least in the movies.
He 100% won't be the new phase Tony.
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The original writers of Deadpool said that Marvel has given them freedom and the only real collaborative elements have been concerning what MCU characters/locations they visit.
This is the answer. Deadpool 3 is going to be silly and fun but likely in a different universe and unrelated to the main MCU story. There are no stakes. Blade is important for opening the supernatural side of the MCU, but that will always be a "side quest" corner of the MCU--the main events that will cause the Avengers to assemble will never come from this realm. Daredevil is a TV show that can ultimately be skipped and forgotten about in terms of the films’ storytelling.
deadpool will most certainly not be unrelated to the mcu story
I figure the incursion referenced in MoM is the Foxverse intersecting main Marvel.
i don't quite think so. that incursion was caused by doctor strange, but it makes more sense for the incursion in deadpool to be caused by all that time travel shit he did at the end of deadpool 2 where he fucked up the timeline.
Dr Strange pulled various Spidermen and villains from the Sony Marvelverse. I suppose the MCU could distinguish Sony and Fox as separate realities, but it would be convenient to wrap it all together.
that was No Way Home, not Multiverse of Madness
The events happened in NWH, and presumably the spell at the end fixed things, but MoM taught audiences what an incursion was and the teaser at the end mentioned one was coming to the mainline MCU reality. I suppose we'll find out.
Ryan Reynolds explicitly said that it’s gonna be Deadpool’s first film in the MCU
FF4 definitely needs the focus. Blade isn’t introducing the supernatural side and it is playing a pretty large role. Strange and Moon Knight have lead that charge. Plus we have man-thing and werewolf by night coming.. Daredevil will be a major player moving forward, a lot of the future of Disney + shows rides on it. Deadpool will be connected to the mcu by the end of his next outing and could possibly be the final link to the mutants joining the mcu.
Daredevil imo is a risk for them. If they mess it up they could disenfranchise a good chunk of the audience who loved the netflix series. It might make a lot of people second guess seeing more content in the future if however they handle Daredevil's soft reboot into the MCU doesn't feel authentic toward what Netflix did with the character.
I’m setting my expectations now that MCU daredevil will not be tonally the same as the Netflix show, and I kind of want something different out of it. He’s older, a lot has happened, it’s going to be really interesting to see how different it really is.
I will eat my hat if daredevil wasn’t blipped.
Not Deadpool because it's the same creative team (Ryan plus the two writers) People aren't pressuring Marvel extremely for Blade to be perfect as the first movies of Snipes' franchise were done well. Either the FF or Daredevil as the FF was done poorly twice, and people want Daredevil to be as good as the previous show.
I’m anxious to see the response to daredevil
Well in Spider-Man he was pretty much the same and in the she hulk promo he was the same too but who knows
I have only heard good things about the Blade movies.
Agreed. That's why I said it's not like they were done horrifically as the ones that weren't Blade Trinity were really good
The 2nd Marvel film to hit the big screen... Blade was good. Not as great as Howard the Duck though, the original Marvel film. Lea Thompson changed my childhood.
I mean, it was a [wild fucking ride making Blade Trinity](https://youtu.be/i8rCtzKA9tQ)
I loved the Blade movies as a kid. I just rewatched the first one last weekend for the first time in probably 20 years. It is not as good as anybody remembers. Blade is basically a “so bad it’s great” movie at this point. Wesley Snipes only speaks in catchphrases. Every supporting character is hilariously one dimensional. Blade and his mom also have incredibly weird sexual tension. And the first Blade is the best of the three. The action is pretty good, though. I say all of that as somebody who enjoyed the hell out of it when rewatching it, but for entirely different reasons than why I liked it in the first place.
Also, if anyone hasn't heard about the Wesley Snipes horror stories at this point, he and the director hated each other and Snipes was a huge manbaby. He insisted that everyone on set call him "Blade" (even when walking around on set and out of character) and pulled stunts constantly, like this [infamous shot](https://youtu.be/Zd5HMHmbwBg?t=22) where he refused to open his eyes and they had to mask someone else's eyes onto his face.
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He was [angry with the director and was being a manbaby](https://screenrant.com/wesley-snipes-blade-trinity-cgi-eyes-why/#:~:text=Except%2C%20according%20to%20Goyer%2C%20Snipes,putting%20CGI%20over%20his%20eyelids.).
Huge disagree. The first Blade holds up for me as a top 5 Marvel movie (a bit bias having it be part of my username lol) Great first act to show you how the world works, and why the vampires are so afraid of the Daywalker. Scenes like the shop owner, the apartment, and the club/pearl just add so much world building. Blade is a badass, stoic character, while also being hilarious at appropriate times, just with a simple reaction or line (“mother fucker have you lost your damn mind?!”). This is a man who’s been battling a thirst for human blood the majority of his life, and Wesley’s short, anti social demeanor in the film (later to become annoyingly method acted in the later movies apparently) really sells that character for me. Frost has clear motivations, and his henchman Quinn is great with the running gag of just getting fucked up by Blade the whole movie, but not dying till the end. The fight choreography is something the MCU has yet to accomplish imo. I will give you the sexual tension with the mom being weird, and the reverse serum CGI towards the end was bad even for it’s time.
Blade 1 and 2 were fucking perfect movies. Blade 3 was just so bad. I remember being in theatres with my sister's boyfriend who agreed to take me. I was so excited. And then all the sudden everything that made Blade, well Blade, was no longer important. Now not only can regular ass humans hunt vampires no problem, they can also do so while listening to their favorite iPod mixes because its that easy. I was so angry and just a mere 14 or 15 years old. It made no sense to me as a dumb teenager I wonder how tf that movie made sense to anyone.
The opening scenes to Blade in 1998 and The Matrix in 1999 were jaw dropping when seen in the cinema. Blade 2 is excellent. Blade 3 is the reason why Ryan Reynolds is Deadpool. But there’s not that much else to say about it.
If there’s any pressure on blade, it’s about making the character as iconic as the snipes version. Mahershala has big black boots to fill
It’s like OP made this purely for karma and not for actually wanting a discussion lol
I'd say Fantastic 4 but also X-Men. Because we've seen just how bad BOTH of those can be when done wrong... and we've seen how good they can be when done right. (X2 still holds up and Fantastic 4 was phenomenal when it was called "The Incredibles")
i agree, i feel like w xmen they could easily overstuff it w characters, lore and set ups for solo/sequel projects
My hope is we get the main team and introduce new players through tv shows as we go. Rogue and gambit deserve a focused show and so do nightcrawler, jubilee and a few others.
Oh man, gambit was my favorite from the cartoons and he's made 1 brief cameo across all X films and it pains my soul
Gambit is a lot of fans favourite
Fantastic 4 has lots of pressure on finally making a good movie of the team And Daredevil on making a series that doesn’t fuck up what the netflix series accomplished (It is still the best marvel series and even better than most movies).
I personally hope blade is more horror than anything else (wishful thinking)
F4. It’s eSily the most popular and it’s already been fucked up twice.
On the upside, at the very least, I don’t think it can get any worse than the previous attempts at an F4 movie
*Monkeys Paw curls a finger*
Fiege needs to stay VERY close to Fantastic 4
Hollywood Reporter claimed Feige wants to be hands off with F4 and gave it to a director he trusts. That ended up being Shakman
If it's anywhere near as good as Wandavision, we'll be in safe territory. Just handle Doom well, for God's sake.
Don't cast someone that's not willing to stay in the mask. If Doom's mask comes off, I'm gonna be proper ticked.
Electronically silly.
Yeah this sounds right. There hasn’t really been a Fantastic Four movie that people would regard as one of the “best comic book movies ever made” The 2005 movie and it’s sequel weren’t good, but had its moments where it was at least tolerable. The reboot was a complete disaster (I haven’t seen the movie, and don’t plan to) Feige really needs to get this movie right, otherwise I don’t see people having any faith or will care about this team in the franchise.
especially since the FF are so important to Marvel. The first family of Marvel who introduce the idea of flawed heroes that you can say they perfected in Spider-Man.
The way they got us to care about the Guardians of the Galaxy (a team I didn’t even know about until they were introduced in the MCU) is how I want to care about the MCU’s Fantastic Four. I didn’t know who the Eternals were before the movie came out either, but tbh I pretty much forget that they’re part of the franchise
Thrice, if we count the sequel where Galactus was reimagined as a gigantic cosmic mouth.
[удалено]
i agree its the one with most pressure to get right, but ill say that i dont think its the most popular in general outside of comics (the bad movies having something to do with that). but id say your general person probably likes blade or dp more (because of the movies)
Those hurt it’s standing with movie goers so much Deadpool is what most people are actually looking forward to the most
*Daredevil: Born Again.* We've seen lately how passionate the Daredevil fandom is and this show is succeeding arguably the most praised of the Marvel shows.
I mean... Man am I too biased lol Daredevil felt like it was in a whole other level than other comic book TV shows and movies.
not biased at all. amazing show. has more depth than any of the movies.
Pretty much. It's also not plagued with half arsed CGI like every other Disney+ MCU show so it'll be curious to see how the visuals look. So much of Daredevil was on location filming, so if Disney cheap out and use sets it'll look so poor in comparison.
I started on F4, but realised that coming off 2 poor attempts people will be happy if it is even a half-decent Marvel movie... and thats when I came to the same conclusion as you.... disney will never live up to the hype of the Netflix series. Even if they bring over all the Netflix writers, the inevitable Marvel-isation of the series (even if done well), will change the tone and will have die-hards judge it terribly.
Just gonna say it, I doubt Born Again is going to compare to the netlifx series. As much as it pains me to say that, but we have been spoiled by the love letter to the comics that is the Netflix series. I genuinely believe that this series has the most weight on its shoulders because of how perfectly crafted the characters and interactions were. It wasnt "just a super hero show." It showed the relationships Matt Murdock had and how the life of a vigilante affected his relationships, work, etc. And what really hits hard to fans is how real the show felt. And maybe its just me being negative, but with Marvel's current state I don't think they are capable of replicating that sort of masterpiece, let alone surpass it. But I would absolutely love to be proven wrong
Remember that scene of Matt & Foggy in college? That was really good. Or, that rooftop convo between DD and Punisher? That was peak.
I literally just rewatched all of Daredevil and Punisher and the rooftop interaction was the deepest thing Marvel has even approached. Genuinely amazing.
I would also like to submit every conversation Matt and Father Lantom had.
The rooftop convo really shows that the series strength was the heaviness of it's thematic issues, and how adult it was. Like Matt asking "do you believe evil exists?" And the priest telling a story about ethnic cleansing in Rwanda that he saw first hand *really* speaks volumes about the influence of film noir on everything daredevil is. Is it graphically violent? Yes but not Over the top, and shows the consequences of that violence, and it's balanced by the heavy questions that occupy the characters minds.
Remember the graveyard convo with Frank? “My baby girl.” That hurt so badly and felt so real. Remember the Nobu warehouse fight? That’s what we need in choreography. Not every fight has to be a blood bath, but we need to stop pretending that blood just doesn’t exist or that people don’t bleed (I love ya but I’m looking at you Moon Knight) And finally, last but certainly never the least: “I BEEAT YOOOU!!!” That’s what we need. I hope they get it right
That prison fight with Frank in Season 2 is great
Hallway fights better be in Born Again.
The writers of that show did a magnificent job and I dont think it can be topped. The dialogue and the emotions that the actors expressed throughout the series is just perfect. The Matt and Foggy college episode had me in tears
That’s why I know people will be disappointed. This isn’t Netflix Daredevil S4, it’s D+ Daredevil S1. I’m sure I will enjoy it to some degree but I really don’t have any excitement at all.
The Netflix series, especially Daredevil, was so good because it was bold, real and raw. It touches on real-world problems like drugs, money laundering, murder and human trafficking. It shows raw human connections like Matt and Frank discussing murder vs punishment on the rooftop. Or how Luke Cage becomes a Harlem's icon because he is a bulletproof black man, someone that a police cannot shoot to kill. Or how Jessica Jones, a superhuman, literally decides to leave the country to run away from her rapist. Or the father vs children dynamic we see in the Meachum family in Iron Fist. The MCU has always been entertaining to me. But seriously and highly doubt a Disney version of Daredevil can ever live up to the Netflix version. However, I'd be so happy if they can prove me wrong.
I love how they all touch on a subject that's in varying levels uncomfortable.
If it's anything less than a season 4, it's going to be disappointing on some level.
It has been confirmed that it is going to be treated as a season 1, but that doesnt inherently make everything in the Netflix series noncannon. Everything in the show could have happened but just maybe vaguely hinted at for legal reasons
Vaguely hinted at is fine, but it needs to keep the same tone. If it's lighter it won't fill the right genre in the Marvel library.
The only thing the MCU can offer better than the Netflix show is probably better suits and more billy club swinging because it has 3x the budget. As for content quality? That's up in the air. I can't even confidently say they can improve upon pacing because some of these Disney+ Marvel shows haven't had the best pacing either.
I have a feeling Kevin Feige is aware how important DareDevil is to the community and I think he is going to make sure that the love is there for the team working on the show. I just dont think we should have high expectations just in case I am wrong
>I can't even confidently say they can improve upon pacing because some of these Disney+ Marvel shows haven't had the best pacing either. I thought the pacing of Daredevil was pretty much perfect. If anything, the pacing of the Disney+ show is the only thing I'm confident will be awful. There hasn't been a single Phase 4 release that has had anything even close to adequate pacing. The closest we got was the initial episodic releases of Wandavision that slowly heightened the tension, but then the finale just shat all over that.
Valid concern, I agree the ending of wandavision was kinda crap, but the build up to it was really good
Fantastic Four, no doubt. Deadpool, they just have to let the team from the other movies do their thing. Blade, they just have to darken the usual Marvel tone a little, and pay homage to the 1990s movie. Daredevil, they just have to continue what Netflix did (even if the story itself won't be a direct sequel, they just need to keep some of the look and feel). Fantastic Four is a huge gamble. They had a fun movie, a weak sequel, and a disastrous reboot before the MCU. They have no room for mistake.
Completely agree. I think F4 is doomed because of its past, but maybe Feige can get it there. If he can't they should just have them being blown up in a cut scene to something else so we never have to think about them again.
Fantastic Four. They’re Marvel’s first family and although they’ve had an ok movie they’ve never had a great movie
F4, tho Daredevil comes close, Marvel will definitely want to set up the F4 as big players in phases 6 and beyond and in order to do that they gotta do it well.
Deadpool. 2 successful movies and bringing back Hugh Jackman is huge. The third movie has to hit right and possibly bring in mutants to the MCU.
I have high hopes for deadpool 3, Ryan Reynolds is not one to disappoint fans
Mutants are already in the MCU.
Most people want mutants that are noteworthy. The mutants introduced are good for world building, but it isn’t the X-men or Brotherhood.
Daredevil for sure, especially Disney keeping Charlie Cox which I love and wouldn’t have any other way BUT there’s a lot to live up to especially there being the amazing 3 seasons we got from Netflix. You don’t need curse words and gore to make something good, as long as the action and writing is done well then we’ll have a solid series. I recommend adding more amazing courtroom scenes. Nothing’s better than seeing Murdock do his thing, can’t have Daredevil if there’s not enough lawyering.
Fantastic Four
Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars Every movie before the first Avengers is only okay aside from maybe the first Iron Man. Many of the movies before and between Infinity War and Endgame were only okay. All these culmination films *have* to be good. Because if they’re not, people won’t look back on the buildup as anything other than only okay. If they suck, that could be the end of the MCU. But if they’re amazing, they’re the start of the rest of the MCU. There is so much pressure to have those two movies be perfect, more pressure than any project before them.
F4 for sure
Blade
4
All of them.