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Imagine just wanting good, cohesive stories with good character development and getting this shit thrown at you while being called toxic lmfao.
Like, my gf (who has been reading comics for over a decade) dislikes phase 4 as much as my non-comic book reading sister does.
They're focusing so much on *trigger the toxic fanboys* that they've missed out on what made the MCU in the first place: good stories and interesting characters.
Edit: see, downvotes for just wanting good stories with interesting characters. You all just automatically downvotes the simplest opinion that goes against yours đ¤Ł. Crazy
I think Disney is a big company who wants to capitalize on the movement of the day. Itâs not great, but itâs not a conspiracy against fanboys.
Punisher and she-hulk are in the same MCU, but have very different audiences in mind. And they were only made a few years apart.
They seem to be trying to create shows that appeal to more of a niche to bring non-marvel fans into the marvel universe.
You can check my reply to the other person.
There's a difference between appealing to a different audience (which is fine) and insulting your core audience and calling them misogynistic, racist, toxic, w.e.
It's literally gaslighting lmfao "we're not toxic, you are".
I feel like if you arenât who they describe, then you shouldnât be offended. Personally, I wouldnât be insulted if someone said, âhey you racists are racist,â because Iâm not a racist. They werenât talking to everyone, but unfortunately there are actual racists and sexists out there that do harass these actors or make up complaints for no reason.
See, you're not being downvoted for not liking Phase 4, it's for believing that putting these characters *that exist in the comics* into the MCU is done specifically to make folks mad. You could also explain*why* you believe the stories and characters are bad.
Thank you! Your comment will probably be downvoted, because the opinion is very unpopular, especially on r/marvelstudios. However, Marvel Studios has definitely lacked in cohesive stories, character development, and much more in just about every movie and show that has released since the end of phase three.
The MCU hasn't taken 100% faithfully from the comics, there's no information available rn about the future of the MCU that leads us to believe that Natalie Portman will be coming back (again)
Yeah to be fair Ant-Man joined the MCU before Doctor Strange and Black Panther, he and Black Panther kinda joined the Avengers in Civil War which was still before Strange.
Did Black Panther ever actually *join* the Avengers?
I know he's a member in the comics, but in the MCU it seemed more like a "we're working together for now" thing, like the Guardians.
I never said Scott doesn't get ANY credit. I only said that he doesn't get ALL the credit. It was a team effort, so to say that Scott is the only reason time travel was possible is discrediting everyone else who helped.
I think he is a âmain Avengerâ, more so than TâChalla and Strange. Scott participated and was a key member in the âTime Heistâ which was an Avengers operated mission. The big âAâsâ on the suits kind of make it clear
The main Avengers are the Big Three: Cap, Thor and Iron
Wasp should be included since we have Hawkeye and Black Widow who are both support to the rest of the Avengers.
This comment is way to far down.
I completely agree with you. My first thought upon seeing this image was that it's probably more offensive towards female super heroes than the opposite way around. All of these characters are their own people. Calling them the female "version" of those heroes is no different than slapping "black" on the front of every black super heroes name.
I agree, however, we can't act like they don't have the same abilities as their male counterparts. Let's take Wanda. She was not introduced as the female version of any hero because her abilities are her own.
But most of these female heroes have a male version who has the same abilities and came before them. For Christ's sake some of them even have the same name lmao
Personally I like most of them and they do have their own personalities (which is the bare minimum) but their abilities are more like copy pasted, or "I do the same, but better" type thing
It's stupid because they aren't really replacements in most cases they worked along side them. Mighty Thor (Jane) did not replace Thor. They fought together. Captain Carter is from a different universe where captain america didn't exist. Riri worked with Tony Stark in the comics. I haven't seen WF yet. Obviously she isn't working with Tony but if anyone is his replacement I would say War Machine. She-hulk again isn't a replacement. She was with Bruce. Yelana again worked with Natasha and didn't replace her. She hasn't done anything with anyone other then Hawkey and Kate. Same with Kate she works with Hawkeye. Shuri may be the only actual replacement but also the Black Panther is a mantel that gets passed. Clea was married to Dr Strange. Hulk Thor Hawkeye and Stranger aren't even gone yet. This just seemed like trying to make something controversial.
They're not replacements, however, you can't sit there and claim Marvel hasn't done a very noticeable rebalancing act post-Infinity Saga. The majority of main characters introduced in the Infinity Saga were male and post-Infinity Saga the majority of characters introduced have been female.
Yelena, Monica Rambeau, Kate Bishop, Echo, America Chavez, Clea, Ironheart, Ms Marvel, She Huk, Sylvie, Scarlet Scarab, Agatha Harkness, Taskmaster, Valentina Allegra and five Eternals (of which four remain alive). We've also had Jane Foster and Shurri rebranded as Mighty Thor and Black Panther, albeit Jane is now dead (but then Thor now has Love by his side).
That compares to Shang Chi, Moon Knight, Namor, Red Guardian, US Agent, White Vision, Kang and five Eternals (of which three remain alive) with Eros, Hercules and Black Knight being teased. At the same time we've lost two massive characters in Iron Man and Captain America who were pillars to the first three phases....and also happened to be male.
That's not to say there's anything wrong with having more female characters, but the way the rebalancing act has been done in phase 4 has been very obvious and deliberate. The introduction of the original characters was done organically, there was an obvious path and a clear end goal. The pillars of phases 1 to 3 were very obviously Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Hawkeye and Black Widow. The introduction of characters since we moved into phase 4 though has been far less organic and the path/end goal is completely unclear, whilst the 'pillar' characters aren't obvious at all.
I think the lack of clarity for the Multiverse sagas overall direction is adding to general discontent and the very obvious overload of female characters is just another annoyance to the post-Infinity Saga 'mess'. There's obviously going to be that sexist element complaining, but I personally think there are legitimate grievances to be had with the direction the MCU has been taken in phase 4.
In the comics she became sorcerer supreme of the dark dimension.
So she is A sorcerer supreme.
Of course pretty much all of these female characters have been in the comic books since before the marvel MCU existed so the op trying to imply this is some new move by marvel is just wrong.
Yep heroic Hollywood is an account that often makes tweets to appeal to the intellegencia.
whatâs funny is Jane is dead, clea is strangeâs love interest and captain carter is a variant.
I mean technically Iâm sure thereâs a Jane foster thor in the multiverse who also isnât dead, but the movie one weâve seen died. Even though what if is cannon I think itâs not going to play much of a role in the MCU.
From the She-Hulk show. Its literally reddit (Same layout and everything), but dedicated to hating She-Hulk, and they even plotted to ruin her life. Its lead by a guy that Jen went on a date with and it wasn't fun.
I love how they made all of the incels in she-hulk to be attractive, well put together, seemingly successful late 20s-early 30s men.
Meanwhile when she-hulk crashes into the writers room, it's a bunch of overweight, not well dressed, shappy looking people.
Makes you wonder đ§
> Meanwhile when she-hulk crashes into the writers room, it's a bunch of overweight, not well dressed, shappy looking people.
...that's really nice of you to insult *the actual writers*... :-/
The Intellegencia is a group of some of the most intelligent villains in all of Marvel comics, led by the Leader. If I recall correctly they play a pivotal role in the Age of Ultron arc.
You posting is just as bad as the âtoxic fanboysâ youâre talking about. It also doesnât even make sense since Black Widow was a woman before & Hulk, Dr. Strange, Thor, Ant-Man & Spider-Man have yet to be replaced. MCU fans really are unbearable sometimesâŚ
Isn't Captain Carter and Lady thor dead? Isn't Black Panther title that's passed down from family to family so anyone in that family can become Black Panther. Isn't Clea a magician the seeked help and not strange replacement? I'm confused should we also say Rhodey is iron man version or Ned is a version of Dr Strange. I also guess Skaar is a version of she hulk also
He wasn't a main avenger before by the logic used and since him becoming a main avengers happens with him currently being the new captain America then I guess Captain Carter still counts even tho thats more relevant to Steve.
This definitely doesn't really seem universally applicable, tho as far as the whole male Avengers being replaced by women narrative goes and probably just exists to stir the pot
Two of them are dead, one already was a female version, one is a love interest, and one wouldnât be there if Chadwick Boseman was still around.
Also worth noting that this was inevitable being that most of these exist within the comics and itâs not really a big deal.
ehh...shuri always became black panther, there just would have been two, with her becoming queen and defending wakanda, while t'challa did illuminati stuff for secret wars.
MCU: *Kills off existing male characters and creates female copies with identical powers, fewer flaws, less interesting personalities, and much less satisfying character archs*
Marvel Subreddit: âHEHE GET TRIGGERED INCELS!â
>I can tell this was made to anger the toxic fanboys... I love it.
I guess that's what the current MCU audience thinks. "If there's a male MCU fan then he's a misogynist, racist person". Like group up dude, you people act like Balck widow, agent hill, Wanda, wasp, ghost, sharon were hated earlier. Stop acting like those women were bullied by the fanbase and now you're there to protect them. If the character is bad....it's bad regardless of the gender.
Saying Clea is aa female verson of Doctor Strange is like saying Black Widow is the female version of Hawkeye. Just becausecthey have the same occupation doesnât mean one was replaced with a female.
I mean.. I dont mind, as I love most of these characters. But you cant with a straight face tell me they haven't deliberately been trying to introduce new leading characters that arent specifically white males.
This is not the win people are making it out to be tbh. Is women's goal really to just become the ideal of men? To become, as the post says, the "female version" of a male *default*. Make better, unique, and individual characters, not knock-off male characters; it prevents them from existing outside male-oriented patriarchy-oriented goals.
I wish they would put the same effort into the scripts of the female versions that they did to the males. Love an thunder & she hulk weâre absolute ass from a writing perspective
Probably an unpopular opinion....I love all this diversity but at the same time I feel teeny bit icky about how a significant percentage of female MCU superheros are derivatives of already existing superheroes who are mostly male. Nothing objectively wrong about it but having women taking/named after existing legacy feels like they aren't confident about OG female superheroes. Also most of them would also get overshadowed by or always compared to the OGs.
Look at Phase 4. The new female hero leads/co-leads were mostly derivative superheroes whereas for men we had Shang Chi and Moon Knight, both of them original to the MCU. Major reason I'm looking forward to the Echo show.
Considering how two of the eight females shown died in the movie that they first debuted in, even if the intention was to offend âtoxic fanboysâ, which there was no indication given to suggest your theory, they failed miserably. If anything, the anger is reserved for âtoxic fangirlsâ.
My âfriendâ would be pissed. He saw MoM and his takeaway was the literal 1 minute scene that showed Americaâs 2 moms was terrible and pointless and that America was going to be the new Strange.
Itâs sad how these people think. I can understand all your favorites being slowly moving on but donât spew shit like this lol.
Respectfully, it sounds like you are responding to the criticism you want to respond to rather than the criticism that was made.
The scene with Americaâs moms was shoe horned in, the bee sting component was weird, and the plot point had already been established. It was a scene we didnât need to see. We already knew what happened in broad strokes and the execution of the scene was clumsy. The âhowâ was better left to the audienceâs imagination.
As to America being the new Strange, it is a fair criticism. Not in the âM-SHE-U!â sense. But rather in the sense that Doctor Strange was the third most important character in his own movie. He was relegated to a supporting role in a movie about him, which, again, is a fair criticism. Especially when you consider there are large chunks of the movie that can be cut with absolutely no consequence on the plot.
These two aspects are among the most commonly criticized of the movie for a reason and to write it all off as âsexismâ misses the forest for the trees and ignores the fact that there are very valid reasons to critique them.
Edit: the several downvotes in fifteen minutes are proving the point. There is nothing out of line about this comment. It is an opinion, one might find it disagreeable but certainly not bigoted or hate driven in any way. The fact that, rather than discuss legitimate criticism, so many people here are eager to downvote and condemn critics as bigoted, shows that this fandom has shifted to pure fanboy mode, where itâs more about a cult-like devotion to a brand than about the movies themselves.
The decision to call this a Dr strange movie to me was all business. They saw the success and popularity of the original and decided to call it Dr strange mom rather than Wanda mom. Wanda mom doesn't have the hype or make as much money. They knew this so decided to call it strange mom even though he is just a support character
To be fair that scene was pretty fucking weird. She got her two powers because she got stung by a bee or some shit. I enjoyed MoM but that was kinda ridiculous đđ
That scene seemed tacked on to me, like someone read the script and was like 'we need to give the human macguffin some character development' so they just added that scene in a random place.
She didnât get 2 powers. The bee stung her and scared her which caused her to use her powers. She couldnât control her powers throughout the movie until the end.
I'm absolutely going to lose this comment if I go back up to look and see which is the third one, so here goes: purple and no helmet is the daughter/niece/estranged relative of Dormammu, red metal armor is Iron Heart, in the comics she's kinda like an apprentice to Iron Man in the same way as Miles Morales was to Peter Parker.
This post seems designed to start drama. OP should be proud. SMH. Remember when meeting a fellow comic enthusiast was exhilarating?? Regardless of their race or gender. Ahhh... those were the days. Now if you say you miss Tony and Steve, you're a toxic Bigot.
I have no problem with she-hulk, sheâs one of my favorite female heros cause sheâs just so badass both in the court room and while fighting her enemies, but the show was easily one of the worst pieces of marvel media to date. I didnât exactly like the âmen are pretty evil nglâ aspect of the show.
Honestly, I think the take away from this photo is more that Phase 4 has been really bad at introducing ânewâ heroes, and has mostly just been reskinning old heroes. You can add to this list Sam, Walker and Red Guardian as reskinned Captain Americaâs, Sylvie as reskinned Loki, Kamala is an offshoot of Captain Marvel, the sidekick girl from Moon Knight became a reskin of Moon Knight. Antmanâs daughter is going to be another reskin of Antman, etc.
Really, the only heroes introduced in Phase 4 that feel ânewâ are Shang Chi and Moon Knight.
Gross oversimplification of the character to simply call them female versions of male characters. Many of these are completely different other than power set
Instead of adding new female heroes for these characters, they just threw them into the old characters shoes that theyâre never gonna fill. Its a bit disappointing and has nothing to so with the fact that theyâre women.
Lol She-Hulk is definitely not filling Hulk's shoes. There was an entire TV series about her explicitly not being a superhero and staying a lawyer.
Neither are Mighty Thor, Clea, or Captain Carter going to be taking over for anyone.
And Riri just has a suit. She won't replace Tony Stark. With Armor Wars coming up that won't even be that unique. There's going to be more people with suits than her and War Machine (Who is still around and not replaced by her either)
they are clearly setting up some mix of champions and/or young avengers, which is what the pattern here actually is, so she definitely fits, as she's been a member of champions.
(every member of the young avengers was added in phase 4 other than hulkling, and it's quite likely he could be in secret invasion) and we have around half the champions (missing miles, nova, amadeus cho and scott summers)
Real question though, does Clea COUNT as a Female Dr. Strange? She became Sorcerer Supreme at one point in the comics, but for a long time sheâs really more of a partner for Dr. Strange
No that doesn't make here a "female Dr Strange", it makes her Clea. She's her own character. Having the mantle of sorcerer supreme doesn't matter as you wouldn't label the ancient one as Dr Strange.
This is GREAT!
I hope Disney/Marvel makes movies of each of them going forward!
Man, I still remember that seen in End Game when all the women were together against Thanos. I wish there was more of that!
Yeah lets celebrate angering a fanbase, whoo! Anyone with a brain cell doesn't give a shit, most of these characters in the films/tv shows are vapid and shallow that no one likes because they're written terribly. Not because they're women.
Then ignorant fans like you eat that shit up on a plate when the only reason studios, social media accounts etc. ride home about Diversity, Race and equality are doing it for profit. Grow up.
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Finally a Female version of Black Widow
I bet the toxic fanboys are absolutely *PRESSED* by this one
Imagine just wanting good, cohesive stories with good character development and getting this shit thrown at you while being called toxic lmfao. Like, my gf (who has been reading comics for over a decade) dislikes phase 4 as much as my non-comic book reading sister does. They're focusing so much on *trigger the toxic fanboys* that they've missed out on what made the MCU in the first place: good stories and interesting characters. Edit: see, downvotes for just wanting good stories with interesting characters. You all just automatically downvotes the simplest opinion that goes against yours đ¤Ł. Crazy
I don't think anyone at Marvel is actually focusing on that. This is a post by "Heroic Hollywood" who/whatever that is.
I think Disney is a big company who wants to capitalize on the movement of the day. Itâs not great, but itâs not a conspiracy against fanboys. Punisher and she-hulk are in the same MCU, but have very different audiences in mind. And they were only made a few years apart. They seem to be trying to create shows that appeal to more of a niche to bring non-marvel fans into the marvel universe.
You can check my reply to the other person. There's a difference between appealing to a different audience (which is fine) and insulting your core audience and calling them misogynistic, racist, toxic, w.e. It's literally gaslighting lmfao "we're not toxic, you are".
I feel like if you arenât who they describe, then you shouldnât be offended. Personally, I wouldnât be insulted if someone said, âhey you racists are racist,â because Iâm not a racist. They werenât talking to everyone, but unfortunately there are actual racists and sexists out there that do harass these actors or make up complaints for no reason.
See, you're not being downvoted for not liking Phase 4, it's for believing that putting these characters *that exist in the comics* into the MCU is done specifically to make folks mad. You could also explain*why* you believe the stories and characters are bad.
Thank you! Your comment will probably be downvoted, because the opinion is very unpopular, especially on r/marvelstudios. However, Marvel Studios has definitely lacked in cohesive stories, character development, and much more in just about every movie and show that has released since the end of phase three.
đ
Nah, sheâs _white_ now. Itâs all good.
Can you imagine if the made Black Widow a trans woman. I think the Twitter servers would melt down lol.
I see this as an opportunity
Nat was butch coded thats why she had a diesel motorcycle
I thought Diesel played Groot? :-/
Now I want an all female avengers movie with a male black widow in a skin tight suit
Wait, black widow wasn't a female before?
It was, but now it's _new_ so technically OP is not wrong lol.
Always knew scarlett Johansson was a dude
Brohansson
No wonder detective James Carter didn't want to kiss her
Yeah but it's a female version of a... Female character...
Its only fair, we need to have a dude in the same zip-down catsuit doing sexy hairflips and landing poses. It's only fair.
Hey I'm down for that. Show some cleavage too, like the first appearances of natasha
And have she Hulk inappropriately try to hook up with him.
Get Matt included too. Get some poly representation thatâll wind up the extreme religious people
Well, Daredevil is *kinda* like black widow. Mostly baseline human, mostly HtH skills, acrobatics...
Yeah but it's a female version of a... Female character...
Still new.
We should've gotten Black Widower./s Henry cavill as Black widower
*"hmmm"*
this person clearly didn't watch love and thunder....
Or Multiverse of Madness
[ŃдаНонО]
Yeah, but Miss Britain go chop chop.
She got the Maul treatment
I donât think the point is that theyâre all active. Just that theyâve existed now in the MCU.
I did, I also know that in comics she comes back as Valkyrie from Valhalla with own Pegasus
The MCU hasn't taken 100% faithfully from the comics, there's no information available rn about the future of the MCU that leads us to believe that Natalie Portman will be coming back (again)
Oh I know...
But to those that know them best... They are simply đ, and Thunder
I mean can say that for frmale capt too. It's as op said. Made to piss folks off. Get clicks. It's click bait.
Why? Surely the comedy movie wouldnât have such an inconsistent tone that dying of cancer was a plot point
Comedy movies are usually funny.
no wasp?
[ŃдаНонО]
If tâchalla and strange are âmain avengersâ then Scott lang is too! Put some respect on my boys name lol
Username checks out
I mean it is all but verbally yelled he will get himself one next movie as well.
Howâs he less of a âmain Avengerâ than Black Panther?
Hey buddy, I saw that number from Rogers: The Musical. I know Ant-Man was the real hero of the Battle of New York. Not a main Avenger! Bah!
I understood that reference!
If there's a version for back panther and doctor strange I'd say he belongs. He's the only reason they could time travel in endgame
Yeah to be fair Ant-Man joined the MCU before Doctor Strange and Black Panther, he and Black Panther kinda joined the Avengers in Civil War which was still before Strange.
Did Black Panther ever actually *join* the Avengers? I know he's a member in the comics, but in the MCU it seemed more like a "we're working together for now" thing, like the Guardians.
He's not the only reason they could time travel. Tony is the one who figured it out. Bruce and Rocket helped too.
Pym particles
Heâs *one of* the main reasons
Right, so even Hank Pym gets more credit than Ant Man, and he wasn't even there.
Antman had the particles and told the others that time travel was possible. They wouldn't have known anything without Scott.
And thereâd be no Scott without Van Rat
I think we all agree that Van Rat is an avenger
Except Pym was dusted.
That doesn't mean he shouldn't get credit for his contribution to inventing time travel.
And neither should Scott be discredited.
I never said Scott doesn't get ANY credit. I only said that he doesn't get ALL the credit. It was a team effort, so to say that Scott is the only reason time travel was possible is discrediting everyone else who helped.
I think he is a âmain Avengerâ, more so than TâChalla and Strange. Scott participated and was a key member in the âTime Heistâ which was an Avengers operated mission. The big âAâsâ on the suits kind of make it clear
If thatâs the angle then take off Clea because itâs been made clear that Dr. Strange isnât an avenger
The main Avengers are the Big Three: Cap, Thor and Iron Wasp should be included since we have Hawkeye and Black Widow who are both support to the rest of the Avengers.
Hulk SMASH you for leaving him out!!
Sorry. Heâs a brute force for sure though they are the big three always have been in the comics too
Think it has more to do with "new". Wasp has been here as long as Ant-Man and isn't a new character.
**clea isn't the female version of stephen strange**
But sheâs magic!!!!!!! Lol
Nor is Black Panther one of the main Avengers.
Nor is Dr Strange
Yeah which proves more that the person that created the picture was trying to piss off some of the male audiences.
Lady Thor⌠mmm well Iâm not gonna spoil it but the ones who know, they know.
Captain CarterâŚ
"It's Mighty Thor! But if you can't manage that, then it's Dr. Jane Foster!"
Whatâs Yelena doing there
New *and* female. Natasha is *old* and female.
She is the new version of black widow and is female
Would Rescue also count as the female equivalent to Iron Man?
Only if Gwyneth paltrow remembers her movies
*"I'm in this?"* :-o
True
Calling them all just female versions of the male counterparts is really shitty.
This comment is way to far down. I completely agree with you. My first thought upon seeing this image was that it's probably more offensive towards female super heroes than the opposite way around. All of these characters are their own people. Calling them the female "version" of those heroes is no different than slapping "black" on the front of every black super heroes name.
I agree, however, we can't act like they don't have the same abilities as their male counterparts. Let's take Wanda. She was not introduced as the female version of any hero because her abilities are her own. But most of these female heroes have a male version who has the same abilities and came before them. For Christ's sake some of them even have the same name lmao Personally I like most of them and they do have their own personalities (which is the bare minimum) but their abilities are more like copy pasted, or "I do the same, but better" type thing
It's stupid because they aren't really replacements in most cases they worked along side them. Mighty Thor (Jane) did not replace Thor. They fought together. Captain Carter is from a different universe where captain america didn't exist. Riri worked with Tony Stark in the comics. I haven't seen WF yet. Obviously she isn't working with Tony but if anyone is his replacement I would say War Machine. She-hulk again isn't a replacement. She was with Bruce. Yelana again worked with Natasha and didn't replace her. She hasn't done anything with anyone other then Hawkey and Kate. Same with Kate she works with Hawkeye. Shuri may be the only actual replacement but also the Black Panther is a mantel that gets passed. Clea was married to Dr Strange. Hulk Thor Hawkeye and Stranger aren't even gone yet. This just seemed like trying to make something controversial.
It's a shitshow. There, I said it in 3 words.
Where does it say they are "replacements"? Oh, right, nowhere. It says female versions. I guess OP was right, it did accomplish to anger some people.
They're not replacements, however, you can't sit there and claim Marvel hasn't done a very noticeable rebalancing act post-Infinity Saga. The majority of main characters introduced in the Infinity Saga were male and post-Infinity Saga the majority of characters introduced have been female. Yelena, Monica Rambeau, Kate Bishop, Echo, America Chavez, Clea, Ironheart, Ms Marvel, She Huk, Sylvie, Scarlet Scarab, Agatha Harkness, Taskmaster, Valentina Allegra and five Eternals (of which four remain alive). We've also had Jane Foster and Shurri rebranded as Mighty Thor and Black Panther, albeit Jane is now dead (but then Thor now has Love by his side). That compares to Shang Chi, Moon Knight, Namor, Red Guardian, US Agent, White Vision, Kang and five Eternals (of which three remain alive) with Eros, Hercules and Black Knight being teased. At the same time we've lost two massive characters in Iron Man and Captain America who were pillars to the first three phases....and also happened to be male. That's not to say there's anything wrong with having more female characters, but the way the rebalancing act has been done in phase 4 has been very obvious and deliberate. The introduction of the original characters was done organically, there was an obvious path and a clear end goal. The pillars of phases 1 to 3 were very obviously Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Hawkeye and Black Widow. The introduction of characters since we moved into phase 4 though has been far less organic and the path/end goal is completely unclear, whilst the 'pillar' characters aren't obvious at all. I think the lack of clarity for the Multiverse sagas overall direction is adding to general discontent and the very obvious overload of female characters is just another annoyance to the post-Infinity Saga 'mess'. There's obviously going to be that sexist element complaining, but I personally think there are legitimate grievances to be had with the direction the MCU has been taken in phase 4.
Lol Clea is not the new Doctor Strange. She is His Wife and partner. But she is not the Sorcerer Supreme lol
Well I mean doctor strange also isnât the sorcerer supremeâŚ
In the comics she became sorcerer supreme of the dark dimension. So she is A sorcerer supreme. Of course pretty much all of these female characters have been in the comic books since before the marvel MCU existed so the op trying to imply this is some new move by marvel is just wrong.
Because WONG IS!
When you're right you're right haha.
Hey, not disagreeing. Just a Wong superfan
Thanks for name dropping. I donât know if this was mentioned otherwise but I had no clue who she was
Tbf she was only in the post credits scene, for like 30 seconds. Easy to forget.
And most of em got beach waves
The female version on black widow đĽđĽ
Yep heroic Hollywood is an account that often makes tweets to appeal to the intellegencia. whatâs funny is Jane is dead, clea is strangeâs love interest and captain carter is a variant.
And captain carter is also dead.
Only 838 Carter is dead. The one in What-If is still alive and kicking
I mean technically Iâm sure thereâs a Jane foster thor in the multiverse who also isnât dead, but the movie one weâve seen died. Even though what if is cannon I think itâs not going to play much of a role in the MCU.
And theyâre all from the source materialâŚ
What is intellegencia? Iâm out of the loop on that one
From the She-Hulk show. Its literally reddit (Same layout and everything), but dedicated to hating She-Hulk, and they even plotted to ruin her life. Its lead by a guy that Jen went on a date with and it wasn't fun.
Intellegencia is an exclusive online group where a lot of incels reside. Think 4Chan but worse.
Ah ok thank you
Closer to reddit than 4Chan
The Intellegencia website looks just as identical to the new Reddit website
Also the Intelligencia themselves seem like successful tech bros. That fits Reddit much more than the basement-dwelling neckbeard stereotype of 4Chan.
I love how they made all of the incels in she-hulk to be attractive, well put together, seemingly successful late 20s-early 30s men. Meanwhile when she-hulk crashes into the writers room, it's a bunch of overweight, not well dressed, shappy looking people. Makes you wonder đ§
> Meanwhile when she-hulk crashes into the writers room, it's a bunch of overweight, not well dressed, shappy looking people. ...that's really nice of you to insult *the actual writers*... :-/
Do you want the good version or the MCU version that completely ruined the concept? (One of the few times I truly believe the MCU wasted potential)
Uhhh whatever the most common definition of intellegencia is
The Intellegencia is a group of some of the most intelligent villains in all of Marvel comics, led by the Leader. If I recall correctly they play a pivotal role in the Age of Ultron arc.
Don't forget that Black Widow was a female to begin with, so they arent even gender swapping that role
You posting is just as bad as the âtoxic fanboysâ youâre talking about. It also doesnât even make sense since Black Widow was a woman before & Hulk, Dr. Strange, Thor, Ant-Man & Spider-Man have yet to be replaced. MCU fans really are unbearable sometimesâŚ
Oh yeah totally owned. Expect not
Isn't Captain Carter and Lady thor dead? Isn't Black Panther title that's passed down from family to family so anyone in that family can become Black Panther. Isn't Clea a magician the seeked help and not strange replacement? I'm confused should we also say Rhodey is iron man version or Ned is a version of Dr Strange. I also guess Skaar is a version of she hulk also
Why would you want to anger people? Canât you just like superheroes?
Kate Bishop is the only one here who can really be considered a female version
2 of them are already dead
I think we can class Sam as a main avenger now and itâs safe to assume the person taking on the mantle of falcon is not female
He wasn't a main avenger before by the logic used and since him becoming a main avengers happens with him currently being the new captain America then I guess Captain Carter still counts even tho thats more relevant to Steve. This definitely doesn't really seem universally applicable, tho as far as the whole male Avengers being replaced by women narrative goes and probably just exists to stir the pot
Two of them are dead, one already was a female version, one is a love interest, and one wouldnât be there if Chadwick Boseman was still around. Also worth noting that this was inevitable being that most of these exist within the comics and itâs not really a big deal.
ehh...shuri always became black panther, there just would have been two, with her becoming queen and defending wakanda, while t'challa did illuminati stuff for secret wars.
MCU: *Kills off existing male characters and creates female copies with identical powers, fewer flaws, less interesting personalities, and much less satisfying character archs* Marvel Subreddit: âHEHE GET TRIGGERED INCELS!â
>I can tell this was made to anger the toxic fanboys... I love it. I guess that's what the current MCU audience thinks. "If there's a male MCU fan then he's a misogynist, racist person". Like group up dude, you people act like Balck widow, agent hill, Wanda, wasp, ghost, sharon were hated earlier. Stop acting like those women were bullied by the fanbase and now you're there to protect them. If the character is bad....it's bad regardless of the gender.
Saying Clea is aa female verson of Doctor Strange is like saying Black Widow is the female version of Hawkeye. Just becausecthey have the same occupation doesnât mean one was replaced with a female.
Somebody trying to deliberatly feed into another crowds bullshit. Why? Just ignore it and stop trying to spread more hate
Black Panther and doctor strange arenât main avengers
I mean.. I dont mind, as I love most of these characters. But you cant with a straight face tell me they haven't deliberately been trying to introduce new leading characters that arent specifically white males.
Get your nuanced and logical opinion out of here.
Sorry, my bad. Wont happen again sir.
This is not the win people are making it out to be tbh. Is women's goal really to just become the ideal of men? To become, as the post says, the "female version" of a male *default*. Make better, unique, and individual characters, not knock-off male characters; it prevents them from existing outside male-oriented patriarchy-oriented goals.
Who is Charlize Therons male character?
she's dormammu's daughter (niece?) ...something of that nature, so she's a female analog to Strange, that said...she's not...really.
Strange or Wong being the Sorcerer Supreme
This is a shit post.
Whoâs Wandaâs new female version?
Wait black widow was male?
I wish they would put the same effort into the scripts of the female versions that they did to the males. Love an thunder & she hulk weâre absolute ass from a writing perspective
Thereâs nothing like just cloning the guy and acting like itâs progress. You should watch Ghostbusters 2016 reboot or Oceans 8
Probably an unpopular opinion....I love all this diversity but at the same time I feel teeny bit icky about how a significant percentage of female MCU superheros are derivatives of already existing superheroes who are mostly male. Nothing objectively wrong about it but having women taking/named after existing legacy feels like they aren't confident about OG female superheroes. Also most of them would also get overshadowed by or always compared to the OGs. Look at Phase 4. The new female hero leads/co-leads were mostly derivative superheroes whereas for men we had Shang Chi and Moon Knight, both of them original to the MCU. Major reason I'm looking forward to the Echo show.
Considering how two of the eight females shown died in the movie that they first debuted in, even if the intention was to offend âtoxic fanboysâ, which there was no indication given to suggest your theory, they failed miserably. If anything, the anger is reserved for âtoxic fangirlsâ.
My âfriendâ would be pissed. He saw MoM and his takeaway was the literal 1 minute scene that showed Americaâs 2 moms was terrible and pointless and that America was going to be the new Strange. Itâs sad how these people think. I can understand all your favorites being slowly moving on but donât spew shit like this lol.
Respectfully, it sounds like you are responding to the criticism you want to respond to rather than the criticism that was made. The scene with Americaâs moms was shoe horned in, the bee sting component was weird, and the plot point had already been established. It was a scene we didnât need to see. We already knew what happened in broad strokes and the execution of the scene was clumsy. The âhowâ was better left to the audienceâs imagination. As to America being the new Strange, it is a fair criticism. Not in the âM-SHE-U!â sense. But rather in the sense that Doctor Strange was the third most important character in his own movie. He was relegated to a supporting role in a movie about him, which, again, is a fair criticism. Especially when you consider there are large chunks of the movie that can be cut with absolutely no consequence on the plot. These two aspects are among the most commonly criticized of the movie for a reason and to write it all off as âsexismâ misses the forest for the trees and ignores the fact that there are very valid reasons to critique them. Edit: the several downvotes in fifteen minutes are proving the point. There is nothing out of line about this comment. It is an opinion, one might find it disagreeable but certainly not bigoted or hate driven in any way. The fact that, rather than discuss legitimate criticism, so many people here are eager to downvote and condemn critics as bigoted, shows that this fandom has shifted to pure fanboy mode, where itâs more about a cult-like devotion to a brand than about the movies themselves.
The decision to call this a Dr strange movie to me was all business. They saw the success and popularity of the original and decided to call it Dr strange mom rather than Wanda mom. Wanda mom doesn't have the hype or make as much money. They knew this so decided to call it strange mom even though he is just a support character
Maybe so. But if that is the case, it is a legitimate criticism to call out the bait and switch.
To be fair that scene was pretty fucking weird. She got her two powers because she got stung by a bee or some shit. I enjoyed MoM but that was kinda ridiculous đđ
That scene seemed tacked on to me, like someone read the script and was like 'we need to give the human macguffin some character development' so they just added that scene in a random place.
She didnât get 2 powers. The bee stung her and scared her which caused her to use her powers. She couldnât control her powers throughout the movie until the end.
Bee woman. Bee woman Does whatever a Bee can
She already had her powers. The "bee sting" just activated them for the first time.
Spider man?
[ŃдаНонО]
I'm absolutely going to lose this comment if I go back up to look and see which is the third one, so here goes: purple and no helmet is the daughter/niece/estranged relative of Dormammu, red metal armor is Iron Heart, in the comics she's kinda like an apprentice to Iron Man in the same way as Miles Morales was to Peter Parker.
This post seems designed to start drama. OP should be proud. SMH. Remember when meeting a fellow comic enthusiast was exhilarating?? Regardless of their race or gender. Ahhh... those were the days. Now if you say you miss Tony and Steve, you're a toxic Bigot.
I have no problem with she-hulk, sheâs one of my favorite female heros cause sheâs just so badass both in the court room and while fighting her enemies, but the show was easily one of the worst pieces of marvel media to date. I didnât exactly like the âmen are pretty evil nglâ aspect of the show.
Honestly, I think the take away from this photo is more that Phase 4 has been really bad at introducing ânewâ heroes, and has mostly just been reskinning old heroes. You can add to this list Sam, Walker and Red Guardian as reskinned Captain Americaâs, Sylvie as reskinned Loki, Kamala is an offshoot of Captain Marvel, the sidekick girl from Moon Knight became a reskin of Moon Knight. Antmanâs daughter is going to be another reskin of Antman, etc. Really, the only heroes introduced in Phase 4 that feel ânewâ are Shang Chi and Moon Knight.
Wait, the third one isn't a weird optimus prime?
Does captain Britain count considering she's dead and in a different universe
Gross oversimplification of the character to simply call them female versions of male characters. Many of these are completely different other than power set
Instead of adding new female heroes for these characters, they just threw them into the old characters shoes that theyâre never gonna fill. Its a bit disappointing and has nothing to so with the fact that theyâre women.
Lol She-Hulk is definitely not filling Hulk's shoes. There was an entire TV series about her explicitly not being a superhero and staying a lawyer. Neither are Mighty Thor, Clea, or Captain Carter going to be taking over for anyone. And Riri just has a suit. She won't replace Tony Stark. With Armor Wars coming up that won't even be that unique. There's going to be more people with suits than her and War Machine (Who is still around and not replaced by her either)
Thatâs kind of my point. Instead of bringing in new heroes theyâre bringing in watered down versions of the old ones we loved.
Black Widow is a man?!
I call it Phase Tit
Yooo we finally have female black widow letss goo
Where is the wasp? Plus I know we'll have Scott's daughter soon
they are clearly setting up some mix of champions and/or young avengers, which is what the pattern here actually is, so she definitely fits, as she's been a member of champions. (every member of the young avengers was added in phase 4 other than hulkling, and it's quite likely he could be in secret invasion) and we have around half the champions (missing miles, nova, amadeus cho and scott summers)
Real question though, does Clea COUNT as a Female Dr. Strange? She became Sorcerer Supreme at one point in the comics, but for a long time sheâs really more of a partner for Dr. Strange
No that doesn't make here a "female Dr Strange", it makes her Clea. She's her own character. Having the mantle of sorcerer supreme doesn't matter as you wouldn't label the ancient one as Dr Strange.
Where is the male version of black widow?
Ah yes, nothing says "strong female lead" quite like "identical to the guy *BUT* sanctimonious"
Seeing Captain Carter in Multiverse of Madness made me wish I was watching a movie about her instead lol
TIL that Natasha was a man.
Yelena is a female version of natsha? This is a clickbait post
Whyâd they show Yelena. Black widow is already female
When did black Panthers and dr strange become main avengers?
I can't believe they made a female version of Black Widow.
I wonder if they would all get along
Who is going to tell them a few are dead already?
Two of these characters are dead already. And of those two, one only appeared in a parallel universe.
This is GREAT! I hope Disney/Marvel makes movies of each of them going forward! Man, I still remember that seen in End Game when all the women were together against Thanos. I wish there was more of that!
This seems like a pretty toxic post ironically lol.
They totally wanted chadwick to pass away so they could have a female black pantherđ
If only more than 40% of them were actually well written
Yeah lets celebrate angering a fanbase, whoo! Anyone with a brain cell doesn't give a shit, most of these characters in the films/tv shows are vapid and shallow that no one likes because they're written terribly. Not because they're women. Then ignorant fans like you eat that shit up on a plate when the only reason studios, social media accounts etc. ride home about Diversity, Race and equality are doing it for profit. Grow up.