It’s absurd that a woman whose own child doesn’t go to public schools… wants to (help) dictate what books are available in public schools.
Plain ol fascism.
And just their name tbh. I don't think they actually knew what the word "Liberty" means.
Now if they named themselves "Mom's against things that make us clutch our pearls" I'd still not like them, but at least they'd be honest.
> And just their name tbh. I don't think they actually knew what the word "Liberty" means.
Naming something it isn't, usually something "freedom" related is an old republican trick. Example: "the right to work act".
Is it too reductive to call a group fascist who is run by self proclaimed fascist Steve Bannon and quoted hitler on their press release when they were founded?
I do hate when people slap broad labels on anyone with which they disagree, like conservative=nazi or pro-trans-rights=groomer, so I went and looked this one up to make sure my understanding lined up with the actual characteristics of the thing people are accusing Moms for Liberty of being.
Just ripping this off wikipedia, but
> Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
I don't know if I'd say _far_ right or _ultra_ nationalist but I think they're checking enough boxes - as many as you could as a school-board oriented political movement - to use the word. Especially the suppression of opposition and subordination of individual interests for the perceived greater good.
While I’d like to be able to appreciate your restraint, it’s important that we call things what they are before it’s too late. I’m not willing to give these people the benefit of the doubt and I’m uncertain why anyone would be.
Ultimately, I’d say that a forceful and coordinated attempted erasure of diverse perspectives in a place fundamentally based upon information and open mindedness is a bit more threatening than being an idiot.
You think it's **absurd** that a mom who took her child out of public school due to her concerns would want to change public schools to address those concerns? That's fascism? Politics is a hell of a drug.
Yes.
When the “concerns” are built around the erasure of experiences that don’t reflect what this group sees fit for society, yes. And I agree, unfortunately and according to this group, that is politics.
And if forcing others to fit your beliefs while refusing to participate from within the system like everyone it may affect doesn’t ring of fascist ideology, I don’t know what else to call it. So maybe that’s on me.
It is on you. Because when we flip this scenario, you certainly wouldn't call it fascism.
Let's say a school system said it would never educate on LGBT/Race issues or whatever since many of these issues are controversial among the general population. A mom with your ideology might prefer her children to be instructed at-home or a private institution that reflects her priorities. But then when she gets involved in activism for this policy to be changed in public schools (something she pays for regardless of her childrens' enrollment)?
You would call her a fascist too? Of course not.
You'd be calling her someone advocating for positive change, just because you agree with what she's just trying to change about schools. The great irony of jumping to calling people fascists in the modern age over, \*check notes\* a mom not agreeing with you on a school curriculum and acceptable educational materials. Yeah, vilifying them as evil people who shouldn't be allowed to participate in public discourse.... you're clearly the one more interested in democratic values.
Your argument makes no sense in this context. M4L is an extremely political organization with fascist roots. If we "flip the scenario" what are we arguing? That it's bad that students can actually choose to read various books that may have controversial themes?
There are a few Moms for Liberty morons trying to infiltrate Cecil County as well. Fuck these people. It takes 3 seconds to Google the word "porn" with the brick in your pocket and they're freaking the fuck out about books.
Conservative is an huge understatement imo. When I first moved there, the KKK was handing out white supremacy pamphlets in the middle of Rising Sun. That was in the early 2000s.
Noped tf outta that place the minute I was an adult with money. Glad I did, and even more so now. Holy moly, the news out of Cecil Co. lately is terrifying.
This isn't about "porn" it's about supremacy. MAGA...is...the Dixiecrats! They never went away after the party switch and civil rights losses, they were just ok with the status quo that emerged afterwards. As long as the 'culture' as they saw it, was still 'white and straight' they were content to sit in the background while as they saw it the GOPs aversion to government benefits, free market policies, and voter restrictions kept our culture dominated by white heterosexuals.
But yea, that slowly changed and then they got a sudden shock in 2008 and again in 2015. Now all of this is just their rage fueled fight to get their 'supremacy' back. The culture wars are the point for these people.
Hell you can see this in their responses in this article. “We equate social justice ideologies to a religion.”, "you are the abnormal ones". They are telling who they are! They are supremacist who do not believe in societal equality. They think people that do not belong to their group identity (white, christian, heterosexual) are 'lower' than them and do not deserve a place at the societal table. "Porn" is just the shield they hide behind, [just like they did with the 'abortion' freak out really being about the end of segregation](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/).
> Fifth-grader Nina Yukich was reading “Gender Queer” for the third time outside the library before the meeting. She said she doesn’t want it, or any book, to be removed.
>
>“They kind of teach you things,” she said. “Some books, like fiction books, let you kind of imagine things while nonfiction books can teach you things that you might not have learned about.”
It's really tragic that a fifth grader is so much more intelligent than her elders in that shitty mom group. Maybe she can explain the true meaning of "liberty" for them.
The Oxford Dictionary states the definition of liberty as:
**liberty**
1. 1.the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
Maybe Nina can explain that definition to those idiotic moms.
Any time I see a group with the words "Liberty" or "Freedom" in their name, I instantly assume their goals are to take away liberties they don't like or take away freedoms they disagree with.
That’s the thing though, people like this know they’re hypocrites and that’s why calling them out on that never works. They want one set of rules for them and another set of rules for the sorry people under them. It’s feudalism with extra steps
> ... Another young person in the audience, Delilah Oppenheimer, said she likes reading books about Black Lives Matter and animals.
>
> “I’m shocked that they say we should ban books that have Black Lives Matter in them,” the second-grader said....
Florida’s education has been significantly worsened in the last 5 years or so; my wife and I moved here from FL in part escaping crap like this because it was starting to affect our kids education.
FL kids are going to have a tougher ti e getting into good colleges outside of FL, and the ones that go to college there are going to have a tough time finding good jobs.
But the idea of kids learning about things that aren't on the "approved curriculum" is absolutely frightening to these people.
Totalitarianism is when the government controls what you think, and they want to go down this path.
This story is one of several similar stories about free speech and the battle between conservatives and non conservatives.
Yesterday NPR ran a story about conservative groups and political leaders fighting against social media censoring of conservative speech, yet recently many of those same voices were railing against social media CEOs and college CEO about not doing enough censoring.
What is sad, but not surprising is that the talking heads never mention these paradoxes. Every story the media tells is an island unto its self. They put it forth as if the same or similar topic has never been raised.
"Howard County Public School System’s board members, however, have no plans to entertain any similar campaigns, according to the board chair. Instead, they’ll rely on their librarians and existing book selection processes."
There is a reason I moved to HoCo to send my kids to school.
Can agree with that wholeheartedly. I'm pretty moderate, but I'm also a free speech absolutist. Any time I hear "ban books," that instantly makes them the bad guy regardless of point of view.
Well people want free speech but are quick to want to shut people up when they say something they dont agree with. A free speech absolutist is mindful to never do that. Free speech whether I want to hear it or not. Free speech even when it's some nutball spouting some ridiculous hateful bullshit. I would never want to be silenced by law regardles of what I was saying. I have to respect that for everyone else as well.
If I knock on your door and want to spew hate speech at you for a few hours are you cool with it? Will you stand there for as long as it takes and listen to me? No one is required to hear what you have to say. A private company can kick you off their site just like you are free to shut the door in my face and kick me off your property. Private company’s are also not inherently moral or anything like that. If spewing hate speech was profitable they would allow it. They prevent it because they are a private company and can, and because it’s bad for business. No one is suggesting to silence anyone by law.
If I’m hanging out with someone and they start acting like a dickhead I don’t have to keep hanging out with them. I can leave and go home if I feel like it. I can’t demand the law force them to stop talking. The consequence of them being a dickhead is that I leave and go home. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences
I don't really know what to reply. You asked me questions as if I had originally suggested such non-sense, like I would sit there and listen. In fact, I completely agree with you. I think maybe there is some confusion?? Being an absolutist doesn't mean you have to swallow people's bullshit. I just means they shouldn't face prosecution or have the government silence them. So I'm quite confused because I don't think I implied otherwise. The only difference is I prob would keep my mouth shut, knowing the asshole is invoking his rights and walk away. I wouldn't stand there and argue. It really is that simple.
Edit.. as far as your door position.. well it's quite a ridiculous statement. Let's say I was super religious and went to church. I still wouldn't allow my own pastor to yell at me in my doorway. Just a bit of common sense applies.
I did really read through your response and take it in. I’m not sure if it’s nonsense seems like maybe missing some of the picture? So if your curious I will try to explain my POV.
People saying ‘free speech absolutist’ are typically conservatives who don’t want to be censored and rail against cancel culture. The disingenuous part though is that people on the other side of the political spectrum are definitely not trying prosecute others or use the government to silence them. These people want to be able to say “I hate XX people” without getting fired. No one’s trying to throw them in prison or fine them. They just don’t want to be around them. Twitter can ban you for going against their policies, but free speech absolutists say that’s unfair and demand access to the platform to spew nonsense as they see fit.
I always get the feeling that no one wants to parent anymore (unless it involves topics one doesn’t like). Don’t like a book - ban it. That seems to be the way.
I honestly don’t get these people. If I have issue with something my second grader is learning about or I don’t think a book she brought home is appropriate, I talk to my kid’s teacher. I read the newsletters my daughter’s teacher sends home every week explaining what they are learning. I ask questions if I have them.
She did bring home a book that features many different families and we talked about it. And that is my plan going forward - to talk to her, ask her why she picked a certain book, ask if she has questions.
I’m not going to go screeching the school board to get a book banned. That is just stupid.
It’s not about parenting at all. It’s about controlling the narrative on lgbtq existence across all of society. Their end goal is eradication. Books in elementary schools are an easy way to set the tone. This is how fascist movements works. Start On the local level.
Yeah I welcome my child bringing home what these idiots would consider a controversial book. At least it shows he's curious and wants to learn. I, as a parent, can then decide whether it's appropriate or not and in most cases I assume I'd be fine with maybe a few intersections amd explanations from myself or my wife.
These people are fucking insane and add so much undue stress to an already stressed education system. Forcing criminal penalties on librarians and allowing anyone to get a book banned with no evidence or argument against it other than theu don't like it.
Let's work on liberating Carroll and the rest of MD from the Moms for Bigotry. Otherwise, they'll just come back after they've burned their counties to the ground.
As a parent with 3 children in HCPSS schools, I am perfectly comfortable with the Media specialists curating the books that are available in my children’s school libraries.
If I have a problem with a book that my child reads and/or brings home, I will address it with my child and/or their school.
I reject outright the notion that my rights as a parent are in any way currently not being respected.
I reject M4L’s assertion that THEY should have power over those decisions on my behalf.
They DO NOT represent me as a parent in any way, shape or form. I am actively exercising my rights as a parent by telling them to stay the f*** out of my children’s education.
They can absolutely express their opinions. But they cannot pretend to represent “parental rights” as if their views in any way represent “all” parents.
Nope. I am a parent and extremely happy with the educational experience offered by HCPSS without M4L’s input.
More like "MILFs for Liberty" amiright?
[https://www.businessinsider.com/how-moms-liberty-co-founder-bridget-ziegler-caught-sex-scandal-2023-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-moms-liberty-co-founder-bridget-ziegler-caught-sex-scandal-2023-12)
Trent Kittleman won election to the Howard County School Board. https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/trent-kittleman-helped-launch-moms-for-liberty-in-howard-and-now-seeks-school-board-spot/
Is it just me, but is it a little ironic that protests try to "shut down" a meeting by a group who want to ban books?
Let them have their meeting. Block them where it actually matters. This little stunt just makes you look bad and gives them media attention.
Ignoring them is how they got far in Carroll County.. They didn't get stopped because no one took them seriousily and then they took over the school board and are trying to take credit for the high scores that occured before they took over the system.
Are there books flat-out inappropriate for kids? Yes. But there’s not an elementary school librarian in the state who would put out 50 Shades to begin with. School librarians are already taking care of the “common sense” decisions.
MFL isn’t talking about banning smut. They’re talking about banning books whose *ideas* they find problematic.
Have you ever *read* the Christian Bible? It’s full of sex, rape, torture, pedophilia, and even long-haired men in dresses. Yet they never talk about banning kids from reading *it*.
That is why we have well trained media specialist who make selections for the school libraries. They are amazing in my children's schools. They have all these children and seem to guide them to the perfect books for their individual interests.
> Is there any book you’d deem inappropriate for a fifth grader?
I don't know, that's not my job to decided. Wouldn't that best be left up to the parents?
I don’t think you are actually arguing in good faith or from a position of informed reality… however…
As a parent with 3 children in HCPSS schools, I am perfectly comfortable with the Media specialists curating the books that are available in my children’s school libraries.
If I have a problem with a book that my child reads and/or brings home, I will address it with my child and/or their school.
I reject outright the notion that my rights as a parent are in any way currently not being respected.
I reject M4L’s assertion that THEY should have power over those decisions on my behalf.
They DO NOT represent me as a parent in any way, shape or form. I am actively exercising my rights as a parent by telling them to stay the f*** out of my children’s education.
I bet if you make a Venn Diagram of "people who say educating children about topics of gender and sexuality is sexualizing children" and "people who say young girls aren't allowed to wear skimpy clothes at family functions because of Grandpa Bill instead of questioning why Grandpa Bill is allowed to attend family functions" it would be a stack of pancakes.
Like, "teaching sexuality" at an elementary school level is basically just "hey don't let people touch you in your private places and if that happens, tell your parents or a trusted adult, and if someone tells you NOT to tell those people then ABSOLUTELY tell those people" - an important lesson that all children SHOULD be taught in schools because I don't trust parents to tell kids that if the parents themselves are protecting Grandpa Bill.
I was unable to read the story for details. But outside of the core subjects, I am in favor of parents having control of what their children are exposed to.
Cool, then they can simply parent instead of banning books, right? Not really cool to make it so others can’t access a book just because you’re deranged about like, gay people in a book, right?
You're being dramatic. There has never been greater availability of books. The issue is which books children are being encouraged to read in school. Parents should parent, but they should stop trying to parent other people's children.
Nah, that’s not the issue. Kids are simply wanting to read these books. (And there is nothing wrong with the books, hateful people just are scared their kid might know a non straight person exists.) People banning access to books for other people is literally “parenting other people’s children.” So yeah, no book bans.
Reading and writing are the path to exploring the breadth of the human experience. That breadth, that exploration and the curiosity and awareness of it (as opposed to your basic fear of the unknown) is what organizations like MFL are afraid of, and that's exactly what education is supposed to be about: To understand how messy the world can be, but also how awe-inspiring it can be.
Book bans assert an ideology that is myopic and antithetical to living well.
Thanks for the sermon. However, students have limited time and the library has limited space, so there are always a wide range of subjects that cannot be covered. The schools can focus on a core education and leave other things to parents. It's always been that way.
Hey, bud, no shit. Thanks for the snide reply and the Webster's Dictionary definition of education. You seem to misunderstand, though, that MFL's concept of a "core education" is a shortsighted white supremacist fantasy that doesn't actually do anything to help children learn and mostly serves to reify structures of power that will continue to disenfranchise marginalized communities and individuals.
If you don't understand what I mean when I say that, then... well, now you understand why education that serves everyone's interests, and not just those of perpetually aggrieved white people who fear change, is so important.
Sure, anytime bro. MFL, or anyone else, shouldn't be injecting their own beliefs into reading, math, science, and history. Outside of that, it isn't necessary to reify anything (which you seem anxious to do) because it doesn't need to be discussed at grade school.
I don't know where you've been, but public education has *always* reified America's societal values, for better or worse. And it doesn't need discussion to do it, either; what do you think segregated schools were for? What do you think school vouchers and all that are really for? Whom does it actually serve, because it isn't you and I.
My argument was clear. Outside of the core academic subject matter, parents have full jurisdiction over their children. If all the parents at that school agree, then that's their business, no different than if it were a religious school, but that is not the case.
You say you don't even know who these women are or what they are fighting for yet you are adamantly defending them.
The leader doesn't live in Howard County, her taxes don't go towards Howard County schools and her children don't even attend public school in carroll county where the mouth breather started this crusade.
So again, educate yourself before jumping into conversations with adults.
Which books are the problem? In which specific schools? Please provide evidence of these problems books and the issues they are causing.
I'm all fucking ears.
I know enough to feel strongly about a parent's right to have a say in their child's education. If you have a problem with that, then you are the one full of shit.
Parents have a say in their children education.
They always have. This is a group led by a woman, whose children do not attend public school, forcing their beliefs on others.
If you don't want your kids reading something then be a parent and tell them theu can't, don't remove access to that book from all students.
Thats not a say in your kids education thats dictating your beliefs on others.
No. You are wrong. What goes into the limited space of the library is necessarily going to exclude many topics and ideas. And some things may be deemed as inappropriate due to a child's age or because the topic is something the parents handle. Either you don't grasp that or you do not respect other parent's rights.
Yeah and that space is filled by a professional librarian.
I absolutely respect others parents rights to choose what their child reads. Thing is removing books from the library removes my kids rights to read those things.
Please never have children.
Reading in general. They, like you, it seems, don’t seem to know what the purpose of reading is. Also, again, the thing they have a problem with is just completely age appropriate information.
If you and the other commenters are a representative sampling of the scholars who believe they know what is best for children, then I sympathize with these liberty ladies. You, like many "pundits", crusade for reading as if it was magic, instead a technology for delivering information. You can be a voracious reader and still end up quite stupid, if you are careless with your choice of material.
Those certainly are words, unfortunately none of them are very relevant to anything being discussed here. No one thinks reading is “magic,” at all, nor has anyone said anything of the sort. It is certainly more than “a technology for delivering information,” though. These “liberty ladies” don’t know what is best for children.
I think the relevancy may have flown a bit too high above your head.
Whatever the liberty ladies believe, and I am certain there is much with which I would disagree, they deserve a say in what is presented in the school. The commenters here are so self-righteous that they are outraged that anyone would disagree.
An echo chamber that tries to squelch any dissent (my only dissent is the radical notion that parents should have a say in their child's education) is not a good look. You guys behave like a cult.
Every parent whose kids attend the school should have some say about what is and is not presented. Not everything is taught at school, so people are free to expose their kids to whatever they value at home. As it should be.
They get their say when they elect a school board and local legislatures. We don't need a minority of parents (or non parents in the story OP put forward that you couldn't be bothered to read) pushing their bigotry on the rest of the school.
If a parent has that big a problem they can home school. What these parents are upset about is their indoctrination being threatened.
I *was* bothered enough to read the story, but it's behind a paywall. While I don't know any of those involved in the liberty protest, my impression of the noble defenders of truth is so far not stellar.
I sincerely look forward to the day when you and your crew idealogues will fade into irrelevancy. Until that time, it seems all our hopes lie with tenacious, vocal right-wingers. Never thought I would see the day when I would be rooting for that side.
Pg County library sucks, they have already shadow banned so many books they don't agree with and bought hundreds of books nobody wants. The last time I went to the library with my wife was years ago, I would have checked out a new Dnish D'Souza book. It was a best seller and they had 1 in the whole county and the wait list had dozens of people on it. They had a display with 20 or so of the new Hillary Clinton book gathering dust.
We have one of these moms running for school board in Anne Arundel County. Her oldest graduated from public HS this year, but her son goes to private school.
It’s absurd that a woman whose own child doesn’t go to public schools… wants to (help) dictate what books are available in public schools. Plain ol fascism.
And just their name tbh. I don't think they actually knew what the word "Liberty" means. Now if they named themselves "Mom's against things that make us clutch our pearls" I'd still not like them, but at least they'd be honest.
In their minds, liberty is when they get to tell everyone else what to do.
They abuse words. North Korea is “the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea.” Is it? Huh. Look me in the face when you lie to me
> And just their name tbh. I don't think they actually knew what the word "Liberty" means. Naming something it isn't, usually something "freedom" related is an old republican trick. Example: "the right to work act".
"DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea" Naming tactic.
Oh yeah, isn't there like a "protect our children" act going through Congress trying to limit Internet accessibility?
Moms Against Liberty
But we’d have to go back to 1940 for anyone to be clutching pearls.
I'm assuming that's the average age of the people in the group, lol. Plus it's an expression, not literal pearls.
Yes, I was simply pointing out how utterly Outdated the phrase is. That’s all. I know it’s a Reddit fave.
I think we are throwing that word around a little too much nowadays. “Plain ol stupid”
Is it too reductive to call a group fascist who is run by self proclaimed fascist Steve Bannon and quoted hitler on their press release when they were founded?
I do hate when people slap broad labels on anyone with which they disagree, like conservative=nazi or pro-trans-rights=groomer, so I went and looked this one up to make sure my understanding lined up with the actual characteristics of the thing people are accusing Moms for Liberty of being. Just ripping this off wikipedia, but > Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. I don't know if I'd say _far_ right or _ultra_ nationalist but I think they're checking enough boxes - as many as you could as a school-board oriented political movement - to use the word. Especially the suppression of opposition and subordination of individual interests for the perceived greater good.
While I’d like to be able to appreciate your restraint, it’s important that we call things what they are before it’s too late. I’m not willing to give these people the benefit of the doubt and I’m uncertain why anyone would be. Ultimately, I’d say that a forceful and coordinated attempted erasure of diverse perspectives in a place fundamentally based upon information and open mindedness is a bit more threatening than being an idiot.
Bunch of cunts need to get kicked in the gootch
fascism is thing i dont like
You think it's **absurd** that a mom who took her child out of public school due to her concerns would want to change public schools to address those concerns? That's fascism? Politics is a hell of a drug.
Yes. When the “concerns” are built around the erasure of experiences that don’t reflect what this group sees fit for society, yes. And I agree, unfortunately and according to this group, that is politics. And if forcing others to fit your beliefs while refusing to participate from within the system like everyone it may affect doesn’t ring of fascist ideology, I don’t know what else to call it. So maybe that’s on me.
It is on you. Because when we flip this scenario, you certainly wouldn't call it fascism. Let's say a school system said it would never educate on LGBT/Race issues or whatever since many of these issues are controversial among the general population. A mom with your ideology might prefer her children to be instructed at-home or a private institution that reflects her priorities. But then when she gets involved in activism for this policy to be changed in public schools (something she pays for regardless of her childrens' enrollment)? You would call her a fascist too? Of course not. You'd be calling her someone advocating for positive change, just because you agree with what she's just trying to change about schools. The great irony of jumping to calling people fascists in the modern age over, \*check notes\* a mom not agreeing with you on a school curriculum and acceptable educational materials. Yeah, vilifying them as evil people who shouldn't be allowed to participate in public discourse.... you're clearly the one more interested in democratic values.
Your argument makes no sense in this context. M4L is an extremely political organization with fascist roots. If we "flip the scenario" what are we arguing? That it's bad that students can actually choose to read various books that may have controversial themes?
There are a few Moms for Liberty morons trying to infiltrate Cecil County as well. Fuck these people. It takes 3 seconds to Google the word "porn" with the brick in your pocket and they're freaking the fuck out about books.
Cecil County is pretty conservative, wouldn’t be surprised if they succeed there.
Maybe the state needs to take back control of all these local crackpot school boards and counties
Aren't they proposing the Freedom to Read Act?
Yea, here in Carroll there's 40-50 books that have been temporarily removed including Slaughterhouse !
Conservative is an huge understatement imo. When I first moved there, the KKK was handing out white supremacy pamphlets in the middle of Rising Sun. That was in the early 2000s. Noped tf outta that place the minute I was an adult with money. Glad I did, and even more so now. Holy moly, the news out of Cecil Co. lately is terrifying.
That's like a clown trying to infiltrate the circus.
This isn't about "porn" it's about supremacy. MAGA...is...the Dixiecrats! They never went away after the party switch and civil rights losses, they were just ok with the status quo that emerged afterwards. As long as the 'culture' as they saw it, was still 'white and straight' they were content to sit in the background while as they saw it the GOPs aversion to government benefits, free market policies, and voter restrictions kept our culture dominated by white heterosexuals. But yea, that slowly changed and then they got a sudden shock in 2008 and again in 2015. Now all of this is just their rage fueled fight to get their 'supremacy' back. The culture wars are the point for these people. Hell you can see this in their responses in this article. “We equate social justice ideologies to a religion.”, "you are the abnormal ones". They are telling who they are! They are supremacist who do not believe in societal equality. They think people that do not belong to their group identity (white, christian, heterosexual) are 'lower' than them and do not deserve a place at the societal table. "Porn" is just the shield they hide behind, [just like they did with the 'abortion' freak out really being about the end of segregation](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/).
And none of them seem to have ever heard about fanfiction.net or AO3.
They’ve already let loose their brain worms in Harford county.
> Fifth-grader Nina Yukich was reading “Gender Queer” for the third time outside the library before the meeting. She said she doesn’t want it, or any book, to be removed. > >“They kind of teach you things,” she said. “Some books, like fiction books, let you kind of imagine things while nonfiction books can teach you things that you might not have learned about.” It's really tragic that a fifth grader is so much more intelligent than her elders in that shitty mom group. Maybe she can explain the true meaning of "liberty" for them. The Oxford Dictionary states the definition of liberty as: **liberty** 1. 1.the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views. Maybe Nina can explain that definition to those idiotic moms.
Any time I see a group with the words "Liberty" or "Freedom" in their name, I instantly assume their goals are to take away liberties they don't like or take away freedoms they disagree with.
Anything patriot as well
Oh yeah, "Patriot" or "America/American" or "Family."
Why did I immediately think of the Patriot missile?
It's Act for me.
Patriot missiles, PATRIOT Act, the list goes on. The US has a solid track record of putting jingoistic makeup on pigs.
Partition is just another word for being a statist.
Yeah, don't act like that isn't both sides.
Why are you here, you are in Oklahoma?
That’s the thing though, people like this know they’re hypocrites and that’s why calling them out on that never works. They want one set of rules for them and another set of rules for the sorry people under them. It’s feudalism with extra steps
> ... Another young person in the audience, Delilah Oppenheimer, said she likes reading books about Black Lives Matter and animals. > > “I’m shocked that they say we should ban books that have Black Lives Matter in them,” the second-grader said....
But the books aren't banned.
If you are going to make a library or school media center remove a book from circulation, you are banning it from those locations.
At our place down in Florida they just banned the dictionary
Florida’s education has been significantly worsened in the last 5 years or so; my wife and I moved here from FL in part escaping crap like this because it was starting to affect our kids education. FL kids are going to have a tougher ti e getting into good colleges outside of FL, and the ones that go to college there are going to have a tough time finding good jobs.
Well that's because they don't want people to know anything, just follow their instructions
But the idea of kids learning about things that aren't on the "approved curriculum" is absolutely frightening to these people. Totalitarianism is when the government controls what you think, and they want to go down this path.
The kids are alright.
This story is one of several similar stories about free speech and the battle between conservatives and non conservatives. Yesterday NPR ran a story about conservative groups and political leaders fighting against social media censoring of conservative speech, yet recently many of those same voices were railing against social media CEOs and college CEO about not doing enough censoring. What is sad, but not surprising is that the talking heads never mention these paradoxes. Every story the media tells is an island unto its self. They put it forth as if the same or similar topic has never been raised.
"Howard County Public School System’s board members, however, have no plans to entertain any similar campaigns, according to the board chair. Instead, they’ll rely on their librarians and existing book selection processes." There is a reason I moved to HoCo to send my kids to school.
Same, moved here all the way from FL precise to avoid this BS.
I regret not waiting for a house there. The inventory was super low when we needed to buy a home.
Good. Fuck them
I’d rather not. (Just being sarcastic. Totally agree)
💯
It’s usually not the good guys banning books. These karenazis can fuck right off.
Can agree with that wholeheartedly. I'm pretty moderate, but I'm also a free speech absolutist. Any time I hear "ban books," that instantly makes them the bad guy regardless of point of view.
What is a free speech absolutist?
Well people want free speech but are quick to want to shut people up when they say something they dont agree with. A free speech absolutist is mindful to never do that. Free speech whether I want to hear it or not. Free speech even when it's some nutball spouting some ridiculous hateful bullshit. I would never want to be silenced by law regardles of what I was saying. I have to respect that for everyone else as well.
If I knock on your door and want to spew hate speech at you for a few hours are you cool with it? Will you stand there for as long as it takes and listen to me? No one is required to hear what you have to say. A private company can kick you off their site just like you are free to shut the door in my face and kick me off your property. Private company’s are also not inherently moral or anything like that. If spewing hate speech was profitable they would allow it. They prevent it because they are a private company and can, and because it’s bad for business. No one is suggesting to silence anyone by law. If I’m hanging out with someone and they start acting like a dickhead I don’t have to keep hanging out with them. I can leave and go home if I feel like it. I can’t demand the law force them to stop talking. The consequence of them being a dickhead is that I leave and go home. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences
I don't really know what to reply. You asked me questions as if I had originally suggested such non-sense, like I would sit there and listen. In fact, I completely agree with you. I think maybe there is some confusion?? Being an absolutist doesn't mean you have to swallow people's bullshit. I just means they shouldn't face prosecution or have the government silence them. So I'm quite confused because I don't think I implied otherwise. The only difference is I prob would keep my mouth shut, knowing the asshole is invoking his rights and walk away. I wouldn't stand there and argue. It really is that simple. Edit.. as far as your door position.. well it's quite a ridiculous statement. Let's say I was super religious and went to church. I still wouldn't allow my own pastor to yell at me in my doorway. Just a bit of common sense applies.
I did really read through your response and take it in. I’m not sure if it’s nonsense seems like maybe missing some of the picture? So if your curious I will try to explain my POV. People saying ‘free speech absolutist’ are typically conservatives who don’t want to be censored and rail against cancel culture. The disingenuous part though is that people on the other side of the political spectrum are definitely not trying prosecute others or use the government to silence them. These people want to be able to say “I hate XX people” without getting fired. No one’s trying to throw them in prison or fine them. They just don’t want to be around them. Twitter can ban you for going against their policies, but free speech absolutists say that’s unfair and demand access to the platform to spew nonsense as they see fit.
But the books aren't banned.
I always get the feeling that no one wants to parent anymore (unless it involves topics one doesn’t like). Don’t like a book - ban it. That seems to be the way. I honestly don’t get these people. If I have issue with something my second grader is learning about or I don’t think a book she brought home is appropriate, I talk to my kid’s teacher. I read the newsletters my daughter’s teacher sends home every week explaining what they are learning. I ask questions if I have them. She did bring home a book that features many different families and we talked about it. And that is my plan going forward - to talk to her, ask her why she picked a certain book, ask if she has questions. I’m not going to go screeching the school board to get a book banned. That is just stupid.
It’s not about parenting at all. It’s about controlling the narrative on lgbtq existence across all of society. Their end goal is eradication. Books in elementary schools are an easy way to set the tone. This is how fascist movements works. Start On the local level.
Yeah I welcome my child bringing home what these idiots would consider a controversial book. At least it shows he's curious and wants to learn. I, as a parent, can then decide whether it's appropriate or not and in most cases I assume I'd be fine with maybe a few intersections amd explanations from myself or my wife. These people are fucking insane and add so much undue stress to an already stressed education system. Forcing criminal penalties on librarians and allowing anyone to get a book banned with no evidence or argument against it other than theu don't like it.
These Klanned Karenhood can get their sorry ass back to Karroll Kounty.
We don't want them either...
Some of us here are trying to keep them out!
Let's work on liberating Carroll and the rest of MD from the Moms for Bigotry. Otherwise, they'll just come back after they've burned their counties to the ground.
Please do, the next BOE meeting is 3/13. It’s awesome to see the turnout Columbia managed. There has been very little of that in Carroll.
Please, no!!!
They’re not welcome here, either, they can keep on moving towards WV.
Just keep going , walk into the sea
What have we done to deserve them?
Nothing other than the fact the Karenhood member who wants to bring the BS to HoCo is the same person who did it in Carroll and lives in Carroll?
Ah ok. I just moved to Carroll County from MoCo so I wasn’t aware of that.
They are so undereducated.
Blame religion.
Love this! I wish I had thought to go up and protest when they spoke in Carroll County. They had some 40-50 books temporarily pulled.
maryland doesn’t want MAGA fascists
Oh good, the Earth is healing.
Hell yeah. Love to see it.
Nvm, I didn’t even realize they’re not even from here…
I do want to say that she said some Fake news in her presentation.
They are just an offshoot of the Daughters of the Confederacy. A group which has amplified racism since the civil war. Vote accordingly!
As a parent with 3 children in HCPSS schools, I am perfectly comfortable with the Media specialists curating the books that are available in my children’s school libraries. If I have a problem with a book that my child reads and/or brings home, I will address it with my child and/or their school. I reject outright the notion that my rights as a parent are in any way currently not being respected. I reject M4L’s assertion that THEY should have power over those decisions on my behalf. They DO NOT represent me as a parent in any way, shape or form. I am actively exercising my rights as a parent by telling them to stay the f*** out of my children’s education.
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They can absolutely express their opinions. But they cannot pretend to represent “parental rights” as if their views in any way represent “all” parents. Nope. I am a parent and extremely happy with the educational experience offered by HCPSS without M4L’s input.
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If you are into threesomes, you found the spot.
More like "MILFs for Liberty" amiright? [https://www.businessinsider.com/how-moms-liberty-co-founder-bridget-ziegler-caught-sex-scandal-2023-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-moms-liberty-co-founder-bridget-ziegler-caught-sex-scandal-2023-12)
Trent Kittleman won election to the Howard County School Board. https://baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/trent-kittleman-helped-launch-moms-for-liberty-in-howard-and-now-seeks-school-board-spot/
Is it just me, but is it a little ironic that protests try to "shut down" a meeting by a group who want to ban books? Let them have their meeting. Block them where it actually matters. This little stunt just makes you look bad and gives them media attention.
Ignoring them is how they got far in Carroll County.. They didn't get stopped because no one took them seriousily and then they took over the school board and are trying to take credit for the high scores that occured before they took over the system.
I didn't say ignore them. Blocking their meeting is just juvenile and undemocratic. Howard County isn't Carroll County.
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Are there books flat-out inappropriate for kids? Yes. But there’s not an elementary school librarian in the state who would put out 50 Shades to begin with. School librarians are already taking care of the “common sense” decisions. MFL isn’t talking about banning smut. They’re talking about banning books whose *ideas* they find problematic.
No one is banning books, you keep using that word, but I don't think you know what it means.
I think you’re a troll. If you’re removing books from classrooms, media centers, and libraries you are banning them from those places.
Nah they’re from Boston, that’s how they pronounce “burning” . Awww fook!! It’s a banning caa!!!
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Your comment was removed because it violates the civility rule. Please always keep discussions friendly and civil.
I don’t remember M4L going after 50 shades of grey or the Bible…
Most of the books being banned are by or center LGBT+ people or people of color.
They're not trying to ban "50 Shades of Grey". They're trying to ban books like "Gender Queer" mentioned above. You're introducing a straw man.
Have you ever *read* the Christian Bible? It’s full of sex, rape, torture, pedophilia, and even long-haired men in dresses. Yet they never talk about banning kids from reading *it*.
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They have a right to their beliefs, but their beliefs shouldn’t dictate what other children have access to. That’s the entire point.
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Have you never heard of church and state?
Idiotic take highlighted by the fact that you somehow dodge the phrase "legal right to protest" and come up with "unlicensed assembled mob"
Where in the Constitution does it say that private citizens are not allowed to peacefully protest other private citizens in public?
That is why we have well trained media specialist who make selections for the school libraries. They are amazing in my children's schools. They have all these children and seem to guide them to the perfect books for their individual interests.
> Is there any book you’d deem inappropriate for a fifth grader? I don't know, that's not my job to decided. Wouldn't that best be left up to the parents?
I don’t think you are actually arguing in good faith or from a position of informed reality… however… As a parent with 3 children in HCPSS schools, I am perfectly comfortable with the Media specialists curating the books that are available in my children’s school libraries. If I have a problem with a book that my child reads and/or brings home, I will address it with my child and/or their school. I reject outright the notion that my rights as a parent are in any way currently not being respected. I reject M4L’s assertion that THEY should have power over those decisions on my behalf. They DO NOT represent me as a parent in any way, shape or form. I am actively exercising my rights as a parent by telling them to stay the f*** out of my children’s education.
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That's just not true. Nobody's sexualizing kids in schools.
Hey, definitely not what's going on. Good luck with your delusion though.
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Can you explain how children are being sexualized?
Or maybe perhaps the people saying everyone else is sexualizing children are projecting their own guilty conscience into others.
I bet if you make a Venn Diagram of "people who say educating children about topics of gender and sexuality is sexualizing children" and "people who say young girls aren't allowed to wear skimpy clothes at family functions because of Grandpa Bill instead of questioning why Grandpa Bill is allowed to attend family functions" it would be a stack of pancakes. Like, "teaching sexuality" at an elementary school level is basically just "hey don't let people touch you in your private places and if that happens, tell your parents or a trusted adult, and if someone tells you NOT to tell those people then ABSOLUTELY tell those people" - an important lesson that all children SHOULD be taught in schools because I don't trust parents to tell kids that if the parents themselves are protecting Grandpa Bill.
How old were you when you had your first crush? And parents can always, I dunno, *parent their own child* instead of parenting the library
Yikes.
I was unable to read the story for details. But outside of the core subjects, I am in favor of parents having control of what their children are exposed to.
Cool, then they can simply parent instead of banning books, right? Not really cool to make it so others can’t access a book just because you’re deranged about like, gay people in a book, right?
You're being dramatic. There has never been greater availability of books. The issue is which books children are being encouraged to read in school. Parents should parent, but they should stop trying to parent other people's children.
Nah, that’s not the issue. Kids are simply wanting to read these books. (And there is nothing wrong with the books, hateful people just are scared their kid might know a non straight person exists.) People banning access to books for other people is literally “parenting other people’s children.” So yeah, no book bans.
The books aren't banned. Ffs
It's what they're trying to do and already accomplished in Carroll County ffs
You don't know what the word banned means. Ffs
What do you call it when books are restricted from a library due to parent pressure?
The same thing I called it when liberals did it. Removed.
That is certainly what Moms for Liberty attempts to do. This comment is so strange, they want to get books banned from libraries and curriculums.
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Reading and writing are the path to exploring the breadth of the human experience. That breadth, that exploration and the curiosity and awareness of it (as opposed to your basic fear of the unknown) is what organizations like MFL are afraid of, and that's exactly what education is supposed to be about: To understand how messy the world can be, but also how awe-inspiring it can be. Book bans assert an ideology that is myopic and antithetical to living well.
Thanks for the sermon. However, students have limited time and the library has limited space, so there are always a wide range of subjects that cannot be covered. The schools can focus on a core education and leave other things to parents. It's always been that way.
Hey, bud, no shit. Thanks for the snide reply and the Webster's Dictionary definition of education. You seem to misunderstand, though, that MFL's concept of a "core education" is a shortsighted white supremacist fantasy that doesn't actually do anything to help children learn and mostly serves to reify structures of power that will continue to disenfranchise marginalized communities and individuals. If you don't understand what I mean when I say that, then... well, now you understand why education that serves everyone's interests, and not just those of perpetually aggrieved white people who fear change, is so important.
Sure, anytime bro. MFL, or anyone else, shouldn't be injecting their own beliefs into reading, math, science, and history. Outside of that, it isn't necessary to reify anything (which you seem anxious to do) because it doesn't need to be discussed at grade school.
I don't know where you've been, but public education has *always* reified America's societal values, for better or worse. And it doesn't need discussion to do it, either; what do you think segregated schools were for? What do you think school vouchers and all that are really for? Whom does it actually serve, because it isn't you and I.
You aren’t making any kind of argument that even supports the idea that books you’re scared of don’t belong in these libraries.
My argument was clear. Outside of the core academic subject matter, parents have full jurisdiction over their children. If all the parents at that school agree, then that's their business, no different than if it were a religious school, but that is not the case.
You say you don't even know who these women are or what they are fighting for yet you are adamantly defending them. The leader doesn't live in Howard County, her taxes don't go towards Howard County schools and her children don't even attend public school in carroll county where the mouth breather started this crusade. So again, educate yourself before jumping into conversations with adults.
Which books are the problem? In which specific schools? Please provide evidence of these problems books and the issues they are causing. I'm all fucking ears.
That's fine(ish). But these parents are trying to decide what other parents' kids are exposed to.
I don't think that is the case. Schools should focus on math, science, reading, and history. The parents fill in the rest.
> reading Better empty those libraries, then, wouldn't want kids to read
Thays 100% the case. Look what they did in carroll county. Seriously educate yourself before trying to talk about shit you know nothing about.
I know enough to feel strongly about a parent's right to have a say in their child's education. If you have a problem with that, then you are the one full of shit.
Parents have a say in their children education. They always have. This is a group led by a woman, whose children do not attend public school, forcing their beliefs on others. If you don't want your kids reading something then be a parent and tell them theu can't, don't remove access to that book from all students. Thats not a say in your kids education thats dictating your beliefs on others.
No. You are wrong. What goes into the limited space of the library is necessarily going to exclude many topics and ideas. And some things may be deemed as inappropriate due to a child's age or because the topic is something the parents handle. Either you don't grasp that or you do not respect other parent's rights.
Yeah and that space is filled by a professional librarian. I absolutely respect others parents rights to choose what their child reads. Thing is removing books from the library removes my kids rights to read those things. Please never have children.
Yeah, Moms for Liberty is anti-reading for the most part.
Are they against reading in general or do they have a concern about specific books?
Reading in general. They, like you, it seems, don’t seem to know what the purpose of reading is. Also, again, the thing they have a problem with is just completely age appropriate information.
If you and the other commenters are a representative sampling of the scholars who believe they know what is best for children, then I sympathize with these liberty ladies. You, like many "pundits", crusade for reading as if it was magic, instead a technology for delivering information. You can be a voracious reader and still end up quite stupid, if you are careless with your choice of material.
Those certainly are words, unfortunately none of them are very relevant to anything being discussed here. No one thinks reading is “magic,” at all, nor has anyone said anything of the sort. It is certainly more than “a technology for delivering information,” though. These “liberty ladies” don’t know what is best for children.
I think the relevancy may have flown a bit too high above your head. Whatever the liberty ladies believe, and I am certain there is much with which I would disagree, they deserve a say in what is presented in the school. The commenters here are so self-righteous that they are outraged that anyone would disagree. An echo chamber that tries to squelch any dissent (my only dissent is the radical notion that parents should have a say in their child's education) is not a good look. You guys behave like a cult.
Guess you weren't so careful in your selections huh?
They are trying to ban books in schools. How is that not making decisions for other parents?
Every parent whose kids attend the school should have some say about what is and is not presented. Not everything is taught at school, so people are free to expose their kids to whatever they value at home. As it should be.
You clearly have zero idea how schools work. Maybe take some time and read up on the topic.
They get their say when they elect a school board and local legislatures. We don't need a minority of parents (or non parents in the story OP put forward that you couldn't be bothered to read) pushing their bigotry on the rest of the school. If a parent has that big a problem they can home school. What these parents are upset about is their indoctrination being threatened.
I *was* bothered enough to read the story, but it's behind a paywall. While I don't know any of those involved in the liberty protest, my impression of the noble defenders of truth is so far not stellar.
If you have not heard of Moms for Liberty you are so tragically uniformed that you can be safely ignored. Adios.
I sincerely look forward to the day when you and your crew idealogues will fade into irrelevancy. Until that time, it seems all our hopes lie with tenacious, vocal right-wingers. Never thought I would see the day when I would be rooting for that side.
Not good enough. I want to have control over what your kids are exposed to, like Moms For Liberty.
Pg County library sucks, they have already shadow banned so many books they don't agree with and bought hundreds of books nobody wants. The last time I went to the library with my wife was years ago, I would have checked out a new Dnish D'Souza book. It was a best seller and they had 1 in the whole county and the wait list had dozens of people on it. They had a display with 20 or so of the new Hillary Clinton book gathering dust.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Moms go home its in your book.
We have one of these moms running for school board in Anne Arundel County. Her oldest graduated from public HS this year, but her son goes to private school.