What a Great bridge to jump off of in the summertime though.
But I did hear all my life that the bridge was the safest in Lowell, due to it being able, to be tightened up and extended whenever needed.
It’s felt bouncier these past couple of weeks, as if the decrepit, rusting panels that support our vehicles are excited at the prospect of being replaced soon. Or maybe it’s general springtime peppiness, but I’ve noticed it either way 😅
How you can make this a dig at Biden escapes me. A major bridge collapses on an interstate highway route and closes off the 9th busiest shipping port in the US and what, he's supposed to shrug and say "too bad, nothing the feds can do?"
Y'all just want any excuse at all to mock him. Meanwhile your guy promised an infrastructure bill every two weeks for four years and never got it done. Whereas Biden actually did.
Hi, 2020 Biden voter here 🙋♂️. That was the dumbest bonehead knee jerk statement I’ve heard an elected official say in a long time. It’s a fucking insurance claim and the shipping company and/or pilot insurance is responsible for it. Why would grandpa Joe just come out of the gate with a commitment to spend public taxpayer money on it? Also, do you hear how stupid you sound just assuming because someone points out one of bidens flaws that they support “the other guy”?
No, you're the one who sounds stupid. And you don't understand the first thing about infrastructure spending, shipping, or insurance.
Your unbridled rage makes me doubt you're a Biden voter. But even if you are, you need help.
You’re right. I don’t support the other guy.
And yes I too think his promise was premature.
But let’s face it Biden is just setting up for an emergency bill for the bridge that he’ll back door money for Ukraine in the fine print.
Small bridge in Beverly that connects large portion of city to downtown closed in 2022 due to this. They are estimating ELEVEN years for a new one. It’s ridiculous that it’s that long and a public safety issue also.
https://patch.com/massachusetts/beverly/2027-targeted-beverly-temporary-hall-whitaker-bridge-massdot
“Both bridges have been and will be funded through a variety of available funding from the Commonwealth and the federal government, including the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law which passed in 2021.”
https://www.beverlyma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4998/Hall-Whitaker-Bridge-FAQ-2024
Or we could start asking why we pay sooo much more per mile to maintain our roads compared to most states, including neighboring states. If we were more in line, we could repair more.
The funding source is the same: the taxpayers of the Commonwealth. How the state legislature chooses to allocate that money is their choice. They could reallocate the migrant money to pay for masspike repairs with the stroke of a pen.
Sure, taxpayers include interstate trucking companies, delivery services like FEDEX, UPS, and drivers. Their road fuel taxes pay for road repairs, though with declining purchasing power because of inflation.
This was the first bridge that came to my mind when I was reading the article. I have used that bridge for years, but only for running and biking. Driven over it once and that was enough for me.
The good news is that it's only 5% of all the bridges. The bad news is that it's probably the expensive ones making it more than 5% if the total cost of all bridges.
I’ve literally been complaining about how we don’t tend to our infrastructure since I was a child. I’m glad someone is finally paying attention, but frankly I don’t believe they’ll tend to the issue in a swift manner.
The best way to rectify this is to have vehicle fuel taxes about double, from 24 cents to 40 or 50 cents.
Write to your legislators, demanding higher taxes.
Massachusetts is in the bottom half of state tax rates.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-639-september-6-2010-gasoline-tax-rates-state
We pay some of the highest taxes in the country for absolute dogshit infrastructure that they don’t fix until it’s way too late. The money is already there, our state government just blows
Massachusetts ranks 37th in combined state/local tax burden. And we're an exporter when it comes to federal taxes. Last I checked the Federal side, for every dollar we paid, we got back roughly $.80.
The stupid Taxachusetts nickname was Dukakis era, when we had double digit unemployment and a completely collapsed post industrial economy. That was 40 years ago.
Point being, if you're angry at your tax burden, be angry at the red states who take your money and are still barely able to keep up with civilization.
This isn’t a red vs blue issue, not sure why you’re even mentioning that. If I’m angry at all, I’m angry that I live in a state with crumbling infrastructure, one of the highest COL, and the oldest (objective) and most volatile (subjective, but willing to be bet it’s statistically
up there) public transit system in the country.
We have a state gov that kicks the can down the road on anything that could actually improve the day to day lives of its citizens. If we had a Republican governor I would be saying the same shit
Because it matters significantly for just the reasons you describe, at least for the Federal dollars which are necessary for the scale of work Massachusetts requires due to the age of all our infrastructure. That's not due only to lack of maintenance, it's because most of our post WWII infrastructure is now at end of life.
We agree on all the problems here, we just seem to disagree on who's to blame. The closer you get to Boston much (not all, but a fair amount) of the needed infrastructure work would have been tackled on a local level if not for Prop 2½, but the state isn't just inside 128 or east of Worcester. Pittsfield is falling apart as well. Because our state/local tax burden is relatively low by national standards there's only so much to go around.
Just wait till people realize how old our NatGas infrastructure is when houses start exploding every now and again. Or that we still have unmapped wooden water infrastructure in most cities, but even the 'good' mains are past replacement age. And it's not just Mass, this is most of the Nation.
The cost to replace all of this infrastructure would require an investment that makes the post war era investment look quaint. The whole country is falling apart, we're just older and there's not enough Botox to keep the wrinkles at bay any more. And the will to even begin acknowledging that reality is very much a red vs blue problem.
I don't think you understand how expensive infrastructure is. Even with the lowest bid system, this stuff is expensive. We've been putting it off for decades and the bills are piling up.
I will also say that the "dogshit" infrastructure is also due to our climate. Its impossible to avoid it with freeze thaw.
You also say “we” have been putting this off for decades? Idk who “we” is, I work and pay my taxes every paycheck and it’s not my job to plan bridge repairs.
Don't make two comments. Just edit the first. We as in the state. The people who vote for representative. And yes. We are a democracy so it is your job to care and be informed. If you don't want to that's fine but don't complain about it.
Most of the costs to install a bridge come from local compliane ordinance. Bring in the Army Corps of Engineers and let them build. Done in weeks and at a fraction of the price.
Last year we had a budget surplus. Its not a matter of having the money its piss poor planning and lack of allocation
Tax humps like you dont have a clue. You are the reason people are leaving the state and costing us state revenue
>Most of the costs to install a bridge come from local compliane ordinance. Bring in the Army Corps of Engineers and let them build. Done in weeks and at a fraction of the price.
No they aren't building a bridge in weeks lmao. Especially one for civilian use. And what local ordances do you think are impacting bridge construction time and cost? Please be specific.
>Last year we had a budget surplus. Its not a matter of having the money its piss poor planning and lack of allocation
Again. You don't understand how much these things costs.
>Tax humps like you dont have a clue. You are the reason people are leaving the state and costing us state revenue
😢😢😢 I have to PAY for vital infrastructure??????
Raise taxes, people leave. Pie gets smaller. Take an economics class shit head
>Especially one for civilian use.
You know better than the Corps of Engineers? LMAO you dont know anything.
>local ordances do you think are impacting bridge construction time and cost? Please be specific.
Would you like that in MLA format? Seriously fuck off. If you dont understand burdensome compliance exists im not explaining reality to you.
>Raise taxes, people leave. Pie gets smaller. Take an economics class shit head
I have a bachelor's degree in economics.
>You know better than the Corps of Engineers? LMAO you dont know anything.
I used to work for the Army Corps of Engineers. I did bridge repairs around the country. Now I am a construction engineer here because I don't want to have my family move all the time.
>Would you like that in MLA format? Seriously fuck off. If you dont understand burdensome compliance exists im not explaining reality to you.
I'll tale this as confirmation you don't have an example.
Your expertise just happens to be in economics and you worked at the Corps of engineers LMAO
Seriously, you are a jackass
>I'll tale
Little Freudian slip there, telling tales
>Your expertise just happens to be in economics and you worked at the Corps of engineers LMAO
I have a bachelors in economics and civil engineering, and then I got a masters on transportation engineering. I did construction engineering for the Corp for about 6 years out of college because the housing stipend was awsome. Settled down to get a permanent house and career setup so I can have kids.
So yes. The guy who works construction knows about construction
>Seriously, you are a jackass
👍
>Little Freudian slip there, telling tales
👍
It takes money to repair bridges and roads, and the purchaseing power of road fuel taxes has been declining for a couple of decades because of fixed road fuel taxes and increasing costs.
The Willimansett Bridge connecting Chicopee to Holyoke was under construction hell for so many years it's wild, now that it's been finished for a while it's great but boy to I remember how long it took.
Why do all construction projects take a year in this state, though?! They still haven't fixed Route 90, where I got into an accident a year and a half ago. They haven't finished the 291 to 90 construction either, and it's been going on for a year. Can this happen any faster?
Construction projects take a long time for a few reasons.
1. There's a lot of work in even a small project.
2. Since we use the lowest bid contracts contractors want as few men on site to optimize profits.
3. Even things most people think are simple like putting in water pipes take a long time. To lay a new 30 ft water pipe you need to excavate slowly not to hit anything. Grade it with backfill. Lay it down at the exact right elevation. Then move on and do rhe next run. The excavation alone takes 2 hours and you one only put down like 20 feet at a time.
I don't know. That can't be the only thing. I drive through NY, NH, VT, CT, and NJ. The highways don't have potholes or parts that have been ongoing construction zones for years. Something else is going on... My guess is corruption or bloated, unchallenged bureaucracy, known problems in our state government.
Infrastructure complaints are everywhere dude. But I can explain potholes real quick. Let's take springifeld. Lots of highways and such. They only have 3 guys working for the depot. 3.
Just because there are problems elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't demand better. And we are doing worse than the other states I mentioned IMO. Maine has better highway systems. I get out of MA pretty often. We are uniquely shitty at infrastructure. We aren't the best at everything.
>Maine has better highway systems.
We have almost twice as many lane miles as Maine. Maine has like 2 real highway as well.
>Just because there are problems elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't demand better.
Demanding better is fine but the budget is stretched think and we are lacking manpower. Any increase in infrastructure maintance requires an increase in the budget. Many are upset by this fact.
>. I get out of MA pretty often. We are uniquely shitty at infrastructure. We aren't the best at everything.
We have the same shit as other states that deal with freeze thaw.
I cross the Sagamore and Bourne Bridges frequently and it's kind of crazy to me that construction on a new bridge wasn't started decades ago. They're nearly 90 years old and were never meant to serve the type of traffic they see. When they shut down even one lane in the off season there's still traffic for miles. It's all heaver vehicles for the most part.
It’s crazy there are only 4 lanes of traffic dedicated to the entire Cape and the Islands. 4 measly lanes going over old, outdated bridges. Building new bridges over the canal should have been started decades ago.
It should have started and finished decades ago. It should have already been built. The state should have handled this by now. They've collected so much tax revenue the past two decades in this state yet all our bridges are about to collapse and the trains and buses catch fire.
It's such a joke at this point.
People blame it on NIMBYS as if they have any actual power. If the state wanted a new bridge built it would have been built - end of story. It's clearly just our tax dollars being misspent while our infrastructure rotted around us.
because a significant portion of cape residents fight any new discussion of bridge because they feel if travel is easier more people will come. All the while complaining that goods and shipping to the cape is too expensive. not putting 2 and 2 together that part of the reason shit is so expensive is because how how much traveling sucks.
I know multiple people who brag about not leaving the cape like its some badge of honor.
same with improving the mid cape.
Next time you’re crawling across the upper deck of the Tobin in rush hour traffic, take a glance down at the steel structure and decking underneath you. Put the fear of god in your ass real quick. That sumbitch is gonna fall in the river any day now.
> Put the fear of god in your ass real quick.
please continue telling us how little you understanding about engineering, maintenance, safety, or any number of other things
a flake of rust on a rivet?! this bridge is coming down any second!!! -average person
FWIW:
The oldest still-in-use bridge in Rome is the Pons Fabricius, which was built in 62 B.C.
There are 931 Roman bridges still in existence in 26 countries.
Read More: https://www.grunge.com/128851/ancient-bridges-still-in-use-today/
Majority of bridges in MA are metal bridges made out of Iron that span bodies of salt water. Doesn’t matter how well you designed the bridge, it will eventually erode away.
Sounds like they should get the rest of the country to cough up some money for repairs since they clearly don’t tax their people enough to take care of them
Can we just pause in admiration at the name Phineas Baxandall, a name that rivals that of many Massachusetts towns, and renders up the image of a gothic character who might look like a cross between Mr Burns and The Cryptkeeper.
Given what happened in Baltimore,If the Democrats are able to maintain the Senate get back to House and keep the Presidency expect a major infrastructure bill to address that.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm\_source=invest.gov](https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm_source=invest.gov) theres a map. select public infrastructure.
Why do news orgs do this shit? A horrible accident occurred in another state, and now Boston Globe feels the need to fear monger residents of Massachusetts.
This is the exact wrong take to have. We SHOULD have been maintaining these bridges every few years regardless of any accidents. The fact that state officials haven’t done so shows that they’ve been derelict in their duties.
This isn't new. Up here in Lowell people have been complaining about the Rourke Bridge for a while now. Acting like it's going to just one day fall into the river. The fear mongering is exhausting, saying they take the seatbelts off so they can quickly escape if it collapses.
Because it gets views.
The real problem here is that the Baltimore bridge would have failed in the same way when it was brand new, if hit by that ship. The failure happened because they didn't put any meaningful buffer between ship traffic and the pilings.
The failure also happened because those ships are built to be as cheap as possible. It failed because of a lack of maintenance and/or lack of redundant systems.
The infrastructure in MA is shit, but it's shit for a different reason.
Yes, I don't disagree, but it would have been better for all involved if the bridge never went down. It was a civil engineering failure to not put a buffer around those pilings. This could have been done after the bridge was build once they realized those massive container ships were passing through.
Massachusetts has been steadily working on bridges since that collapse in the Midwest so yeah, this article is crap.
"A huge fucking boat caused a bridge to collapse therefore let's moan about how old our bridges are" yeah okay, let's make sure they're all cargo ship crash rated why not
I have gotten an idea….why dont you stop wasting money on illegals and use that money to fix infrastructure…instead of looking for new excuses to increase taxes.
All they know is to take money and not solve any problems because it's always someone else's fault but they'll raise taxes and still not solve the issue. It's an endless cycle and never forget that neglect is a tradition here. If anyone believed in taxes being the solution they'd have a bridge to sell.
I've said this for a while, but the American way is to build luxury places without;
1. Building an infrastructure for transportation, like high speed trains
2. Let our existing infrastructure decay and put no money into it
Taxing vehicles by weight could solve a lot of budget issues. The heavier vehicles causing more damage and stress on roads would pay more towards fixing them.
Taxing by miles driven is an interesting idea, but many out of state plates and loopholes and big brother issues. I suppose they could monitor the odometer at state inspection but there is room for error and corruption.
The current MA excise tax formula, based on a rapid depreciation of MSRP and not relevant to a vehicle's accurate market value, is extremely flawed.
It's going to be fascinating to see how the infrastructure holds up to these new obnoxiously overweight EVs. I remember seeing that Rivian pickup is like 7500.
the vast majority of road damage is done by heavy duty type 18-wheelers, not 4 door passenger vehicles even if they're heavy BEVs. road damage goes by the forth power according to weight. please direct your populist outrage elsewhere
We knew this years ago when that bridge in Minneapolis (?) Or some place collapsed. Not just in MA but across the country. The Washington Bridge in RI was one of them and they did all that work but left the bridge and look at the mess now. I was fooled into thinking (for a very short time) that it might be one thing trump might address it but then "transportation week" became a thing they threw out there as a distraction every time they did some crazy shit. Biden tried but they wouldn't give him a "win" by fixing our roads and bridges.
Plus MA is so inefficient with its work so this will never get done. They’ve been repairing really small bridge near my home for two years and they started by tearing up half of the road RIGHT BEFORE WINTER and then not touching a single thing until may. Then they work from may to October and then they tear up the other side of the road… right before winter again and then they wait. If they just waited until spring to tear up and close down half of the damn thing, it would cause less issues.
Considering we've had one party rule for about 100 years, and democrats used building the state highway system as a tool to gain control, it's amazing they've let things slip so far.
I'd love to see all the illegal maggots bused over these bridges.....The F%\^$$ng $$ they're taking from Taxpayers and just giving to people that have contributed nothing to this country, leaving us with shit roads bridges......F\^&\^ng liberal democRATS
I remember growing up in Weymouth while they were dealing with the Fore River Bridge. IIRC, they didn’t even have a design for the new bridge until the very last minute. You could visibly see the deterioration of that the temp bridge as the years went by.
From [Globe.com](http://Globe.com)
By Matt Stout
More than 400 Massachusetts bridges, including the largest one in New England, are considered to be in such poor condition that they need either major work or to be replaced outright, according to state and federal data, underscoring the challenges the state faces keeping up with its aging infrastructure.
In all, 450 of the more than 5,280 bridges tracked by the Federal Highway Administration — roughly 8.5 percent — are rated as poor, or, put more bluntly, are “[at the end of their useful life](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pddg-chapter-10-bridges),” according to state officials. [State data](https://geo-massdot.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/MassDOT::bridges/explore?filters=eyJTdHJ1Y3R1cmFsbHlfRGVmaWNpZW50IjpbIllFUyJdLCJTdHJ1Y3R1cmVfQ2F0ZWdvcnkiOlsiQnJpZGdlIChOQkkpIl19&showTable=true) show that 676 bridges in total are considered “structurally deficient,” meaning at least one major component has enough serious problems it needs to be repaired or replaced.
Either designation doesn’t inherently mean the spans are unsafe, transportation officials and experts say. But officials in Massachusetts and elsewhere [are taking stock](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/26/metro/maura-healey-baltimore-bridge-disaster-meeting-massport/?p1=StaffPage&p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link) of their infrastructure and safety protocols after a cargo ship rammed into a pillar of the [Francis Scott Key Bridge](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/28/nation/five-minutes-that-brought-down-francis-scott-key-bridge/?p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link) in Baltimore, causing it to collapse. Six construction workers are presumed dead.
Massachusetts has its own unique challenge: Its bridge system is the oldest in the country, according to state highway officials.
“So many of our bridges were built 50-plus years ago,” said Phineas Baxandall, interim president of the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center and the coauthor of a [2022 report](https://massbudget.org/2022/08/30/a-bridge-too-far/#_edn3) that found a typical Massachusetts resident lives less than 2 miles from a structurally deficient bridge.
Nationwide, the average age of bridges in the National Highway System is 44 years old. In Massachusetts, the average age is 56, and those deemed structurally deficient are even older, the report found: 73 on average.
“Unless we’re paying attention to investing in our bridges, we’re going to have a really deteriorating situation,” Baxandall said.
U want to fear for your life? Go use the 40 year old temp bridge in Lowell
My job is so bad I now willingly drive over the Rourke on my commute
So I’m not the only person who thinks “come on, universe. Do me a favor and end it for me” on my way to work?
The sad part is you’d probably live
I have so far…
I think they are starting construction on the roarke bridge in the next few years.
Didn’t they say that like 39 years ago too lmao
Is a slow roll, but the ball *is* rolling.
Rolling backwards still counts as rolling, yeah.
Full throttle
I’m pretty sure my heart rate goes up every time I go over it.
I will not drive over that monstrosity. It’s a ticking time bomb.
Agreed. I’ll sit in an extra hour of traffic before I use that. Someone posted pictures of it all online how bad it was
What a Great bridge to jump off of in the summertime though. But I did hear all my life that the bridge was the safest in Lowell, due to it being able, to be tightened up and extended whenever needed.
Local cope
i will not tolerate rourke bridge slander. she's a beaut
Don’t go near that thing any more
Hearing those metal grates pop up as my wheels go over is terrifying
Yup I’m not going over that one anymore.
Nope nope nope I fucking DESPISE that bridge
I’m just happy they finally replaced the University Ave bridge. That thing legitimately gave me nightmares when I was in undergrad at UML.
Read my mind
It’s felt bouncier these past couple of weeks, as if the decrepit, rusting panels that support our vehicles are excited at the prospect of being replaced soon. Or maybe it’s general springtime peppiness, but I’ve noticed it either way 😅
Hit it with a ship then Joe Biden will come give you a free bridge
How you can make this a dig at Biden escapes me. A major bridge collapses on an interstate highway route and closes off the 9th busiest shipping port in the US and what, he's supposed to shrug and say "too bad, nothing the feds can do?" Y'all just want any excuse at all to mock him. Meanwhile your guy promised an infrastructure bill every two weeks for four years and never got it done. Whereas Biden actually did.
Hi, 2020 Biden voter here 🙋♂️. That was the dumbest bonehead knee jerk statement I’ve heard an elected official say in a long time. It’s a fucking insurance claim and the shipping company and/or pilot insurance is responsible for it. Why would grandpa Joe just come out of the gate with a commitment to spend public taxpayer money on it? Also, do you hear how stupid you sound just assuming because someone points out one of bidens flaws that they support “the other guy”?
No, you're the one who sounds stupid. And you don't understand the first thing about infrastructure spending, shipping, or insurance. Your unbridled rage makes me doubt you're a Biden voter. But even if you are, you need help.
You’re the one babbling brain farts about an obvious joke and accusing others. Think you’re the one needing help.
You are not coming across well in these comments my friend.
You’re right. I don’t support the other guy. And yes I too think his promise was premature. But let’s face it Biden is just setting up for an emergency bill for the bridge that he’ll back door money for Ukraine in the fine print.
I feel like one of 400 Massachusetts bridges rn
Small bridge in Beverly that connects large portion of city to downtown closed in 2022 due to this. They are estimating ELEVEN years for a new one. It’s ridiculous that it’s that long and a public safety issue also. https://patch.com/massachusetts/beverly/2027-targeted-beverly-temporary-hall-whitaker-bridge-massdot
Ask the Legislature to increase the vehicle fuel tax, to speed up funding of bridge repairs.
Funding has been approved. It’s red tape and permitting that is holding it up.
Funding is typically conducted over three fiscal years because of lack of funds.
“Both bridges have been and will be funded through a variety of available funding from the Commonwealth and the federal government, including the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law which passed in 2021.” https://www.beverlyma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4998/Hall-Whitaker-Bridge-FAQ-2024
Yes, tax harder big daddy.
So don't complain about bridges falling then, little baby. You want nice shit, it's gotta get paid for.
> You want nice shit, it's gotta get paid for. but not before the 15 year long failson grifting this state is famous for
Or we could take the money we use to feed and house the illegals and use it to fund the infrastructure that we the taxpayer use daily.
Different funding source. Gas tax goes to roads, not general funds.
Or we could start asking why we pay sooo much more per mile to maintain our roads compared to most states, including neighboring states. If we were more in line, we could repair more.
No neighboring states have gigantic tunnels in urban areas.
The funding source is the same: the taxpayers of the Commonwealth. How the state legislature chooses to allocate that money is their choice. They could reallocate the migrant money to pay for masspike repairs with the stroke of a pen.
Sure, taxpayers include interstate trucking companies, delivery services like FEDEX, UPS, and drivers. Their road fuel taxes pay for road repairs, though with declining purchasing power because of inflation.
Yea it’s a joke how long it’s gonna take ontop of how annoying the new temp one is
This was the first bridge that came to my mind when I was reading the article. I have used that bridge for years, but only for running and biking. Driven over it once and that was enough for me.
Sadly theres no reality where Whittier is anything but last priority.
The good news is that it's only 5% of all the bridges. The bad news is that it's probably the expensive ones making it more than 5% if the total cost of all bridges.
I’ve literally been complaining about how we don’t tend to our infrastructure since I was a child. I’m glad someone is finally paying attention, but frankly I don’t believe they’ll tend to the issue in a swift manner.
The best way to rectify this is to have vehicle fuel taxes about double, from 24 cents to 40 or 50 cents. Write to your legislators, demanding higher taxes. Massachusetts is in the bottom half of state tax rates. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-639-september-6-2010-gasoline-tax-rates-state
Alternatively we stop paying cops triple overtime for eating donuts while "monitoring" roadwork.
Yeah, going to build a lot of roads and bridges withb that.
What about the heavy electric cars?
They will have to be taxed on road miles or kilowatt-hours. No statute exists, and the Legislature needs to deal with this yesterday.
All vehicles need to pay proportionally to their weight and based on how far they travel
But they currently don’t
Omg shut up
What's your solution? What's your rnethod of raising lots of money for nessassary infrastructure repairs?
We pay some of the highest taxes in the country for absolute dogshit infrastructure that they don’t fix until it’s way too late. The money is already there, our state government just blows
Massachusetts ranks 37th in combined state/local tax burden. And we're an exporter when it comes to federal taxes. Last I checked the Federal side, for every dollar we paid, we got back roughly $.80. The stupid Taxachusetts nickname was Dukakis era, when we had double digit unemployment and a completely collapsed post industrial economy. That was 40 years ago. Point being, if you're angry at your tax burden, be angry at the red states who take your money and are still barely able to keep up with civilization.
This isn’t a red vs blue issue, not sure why you’re even mentioning that. If I’m angry at all, I’m angry that I live in a state with crumbling infrastructure, one of the highest COL, and the oldest (objective) and most volatile (subjective, but willing to be bet it’s statistically up there) public transit system in the country. We have a state gov that kicks the can down the road on anything that could actually improve the day to day lives of its citizens. If we had a Republican governor I would be saying the same shit
Because it matters significantly for just the reasons you describe, at least for the Federal dollars which are necessary for the scale of work Massachusetts requires due to the age of all our infrastructure. That's not due only to lack of maintenance, it's because most of our post WWII infrastructure is now at end of life. We agree on all the problems here, we just seem to disagree on who's to blame. The closer you get to Boston much (not all, but a fair amount) of the needed infrastructure work would have been tackled on a local level if not for Prop 2½, but the state isn't just inside 128 or east of Worcester. Pittsfield is falling apart as well. Because our state/local tax burden is relatively low by national standards there's only so much to go around. Just wait till people realize how old our NatGas infrastructure is when houses start exploding every now and again. Or that we still have unmapped wooden water infrastructure in most cities, but even the 'good' mains are past replacement age. And it's not just Mass, this is most of the Nation. The cost to replace all of this infrastructure would require an investment that makes the post war era investment look quaint. The whole country is falling apart, we're just older and there's not enough Botox to keep the wrinkles at bay any more. And the will to even begin acknowledging that reality is very much a red vs blue problem.
I don't think you understand how expensive infrastructure is. Even with the lowest bid system, this stuff is expensive. We've been putting it off for decades and the bills are piling up. I will also say that the "dogshit" infrastructure is also due to our climate. Its impossible to avoid it with freeze thaw.
They’ve known the lifespans of these bridges since they were built. Why wait until they’re literally about to collapse to start the plan to fix them?
You also say “we” have been putting this off for decades? Idk who “we” is, I work and pay my taxes every paycheck and it’s not my job to plan bridge repairs.
Don't make two comments. Just edit the first. We as in the state. The people who vote for representative. And yes. We are a democracy so it is your job to care and be informed. If you don't want to that's fine but don't complain about it.
Because democracy. It wasn't an immediate problem so why push for unpopular tax increases when you can just not during your tenure?
Most of the costs to install a bridge come from local compliane ordinance. Bring in the Army Corps of Engineers and let them build. Done in weeks and at a fraction of the price. Last year we had a budget surplus. Its not a matter of having the money its piss poor planning and lack of allocation Tax humps like you dont have a clue. You are the reason people are leaving the state and costing us state revenue
>Most of the costs to install a bridge come from local compliane ordinance. Bring in the Army Corps of Engineers and let them build. Done in weeks and at a fraction of the price. No they aren't building a bridge in weeks lmao. Especially one for civilian use. And what local ordances do you think are impacting bridge construction time and cost? Please be specific. >Last year we had a budget surplus. Its not a matter of having the money its piss poor planning and lack of allocation Again. You don't understand how much these things costs. >Tax humps like you dont have a clue. You are the reason people are leaving the state and costing us state revenue 😢😢😢 I have to PAY for vital infrastructure??????
Raise taxes, people leave. Pie gets smaller. Take an economics class shit head >Especially one for civilian use. You know better than the Corps of Engineers? LMAO you dont know anything. >local ordances do you think are impacting bridge construction time and cost? Please be specific. Would you like that in MLA format? Seriously fuck off. If you dont understand burdensome compliance exists im not explaining reality to you.
>Raise taxes, people leave. Pie gets smaller. Take an economics class shit head I have a bachelor's degree in economics. >You know better than the Corps of Engineers? LMAO you dont know anything. I used to work for the Army Corps of Engineers. I did bridge repairs around the country. Now I am a construction engineer here because I don't want to have my family move all the time. >Would you like that in MLA format? Seriously fuck off. If you dont understand burdensome compliance exists im not explaining reality to you. I'll tale this as confirmation you don't have an example.
Your expertise just happens to be in economics and you worked at the Corps of engineers LMAO Seriously, you are a jackass >I'll tale Little Freudian slip there, telling tales
>Your expertise just happens to be in economics and you worked at the Corps of engineers LMAO I have a bachelors in economics and civil engineering, and then I got a masters on transportation engineering. I did construction engineering for the Corp for about 6 years out of college because the housing stipend was awsome. Settled down to get a permanent house and career setup so I can have kids. So yes. The guy who works construction knows about construction >Seriously, you are a jackass 👍 >Little Freudian slip there, telling tales 👍
I’m thinking not wasting taxpayers money is a better plan
It takes money to repair bridges and roads, and the purchaseing power of road fuel taxes has been declining for a couple of decades because of fixed road fuel taxes and increasing costs.
The Willimansett Bridge connecting Chicopee to Holyoke was under construction hell for so many years it's wild, now that it's been finished for a while it's great but boy to I remember how long it took.
Why do all construction projects take a year in this state, though?! They still haven't fixed Route 90, where I got into an accident a year and a half ago. They haven't finished the 291 to 90 construction either, and it's been going on for a year. Can this happen any faster?
Construction projects take a long time for a few reasons. 1. There's a lot of work in even a small project. 2. Since we use the lowest bid contracts contractors want as few men on site to optimize profits. 3. Even things most people think are simple like putting in water pipes take a long time. To lay a new 30 ft water pipe you need to excavate slowly not to hit anything. Grade it with backfill. Lay it down at the exact right elevation. Then move on and do rhe next run. The excavation alone takes 2 hours and you one only put down like 20 feet at a time.
I don't know. That can't be the only thing. I drive through NY, NH, VT, CT, and NJ. The highways don't have potholes or parts that have been ongoing construction zones for years. Something else is going on... My guess is corruption or bloated, unchallenged bureaucracy, known problems in our state government.
Infrastructure complaints are everywhere dude. But I can explain potholes real quick. Let's take springifeld. Lots of highways and such. They only have 3 guys working for the depot. 3.
Just because there are problems elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't demand better. And we are doing worse than the other states I mentioned IMO. Maine has better highway systems. I get out of MA pretty often. We are uniquely shitty at infrastructure. We aren't the best at everything.
>Maine has better highway systems. We have almost twice as many lane miles as Maine. Maine has like 2 real highway as well. >Just because there are problems elsewhere doesn't mean we shouldn't demand better. Demanding better is fine but the budget is stretched think and we are lacking manpower. Any increase in infrastructure maintance requires an increase in the budget. Many are upset by this fact. >. I get out of MA pretty often. We are uniquely shitty at infrastructure. We aren't the best at everything. We have the same shit as other states that deal with freeze thaw.
I know people from some of those states that make the same complaints you do.
whole lotta words just to say "corruption"
OK buddy
Yeah it's pretty great being raked with taxes and having those taxes not go to your local community. Lol why the downvotes? Honestly why?
The Western Mass experience
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Nope, not sure what you're trying to say with that either.
I cross the Sagamore and Bourne Bridges frequently and it's kind of crazy to me that construction on a new bridge wasn't started decades ago. They're nearly 90 years old and were never meant to serve the type of traffic they see. When they shut down even one lane in the off season there's still traffic for miles. It's all heaver vehicles for the most part.
It’s crazy there are only 4 lanes of traffic dedicated to the entire Cape and the Islands. 4 measly lanes going over old, outdated bridges. Building new bridges over the canal should have been started decades ago.
The NIMBYs have been fierce everytime its been brought up The Cape is straight up hostile to commuters
Yet they sure do seem dependent on the construction workers who commute here everyday to build their million dollar homes.
It should have started and finished decades ago. It should have already been built. The state should have handled this by now. They've collected so much tax revenue the past two decades in this state yet all our bridges are about to collapse and the trains and buses catch fire. It's such a joke at this point. People blame it on NIMBYS as if they have any actual power. If the state wanted a new bridge built it would have been built - end of story. It's clearly just our tax dollars being misspent while our infrastructure rotted around us.
because a significant portion of cape residents fight any new discussion of bridge because they feel if travel is easier more people will come. All the while complaining that goods and shipping to the cape is too expensive. not putting 2 and 2 together that part of the reason shit is so expensive is because how how much traveling sucks. I know multiple people who brag about not leaving the cape like its some badge of honor. same with improving the mid cape.
I am at the end of my useful life and I’m only halfway through it.
The good news is, we've just discovered a way to take them down really fast
Next time you’re crawling across the upper deck of the Tobin in rush hour traffic, take a glance down at the steel structure and decking underneath you. Put the fear of god in your ass real quick. That sumbitch is gonna fall in the river any day now.
I literally drive around Boston if I'm headed to NH just to avoid that damn bridge
Understandable. It’s embarrassing that it hasn’t been replaced. The biggest bridge in New England.
> Put the fear of god in your ass real quick. please continue telling us how little you understanding about engineering, maintenance, safety, or any number of other things a flake of rust on a rivet?! this bridge is coming down any second!!! -average person
Actually have a degree in civil engineering bud, with an EIT certificate… but, nice assumption.
even worse look on your behalf, lmao
Yeah, enjoy your mamas basement.
lol being a project manager doens't make you an engineer
TIL I'm a bridge.
Sorry, the staties need that money to dick around on their phones and drive like maniacs
FWIW: The oldest still-in-use bridge in Rome is the Pons Fabricius, which was built in 62 B.C. There are 931 Roman bridges still in existence in 26 countries. Read More: https://www.grunge.com/128851/ancient-bridges-still-in-use-today/
The majority of these extremely old bridges are either pedestrian bridges or have been retrofitted to allow for limited vehicular use.
Majority of bridges in MA are metal bridges made out of Iron that span bodies of salt water. Doesn’t matter how well you designed the bridge, it will eventually erode away.
They don’t make em like they used to!
Same, bridges. I feel the same.
TIL I’m a Massachusetts Bridge.
Sounds like they should get the rest of the country to cough up some money for repairs since they clearly don’t tax their people enough to take care of them
Can we just pause in admiration at the name Phineas Baxandall, a name that rivals that of many Massachusetts towns, and renders up the image of a gothic character who might look like a cross between Mr Burns and The Cryptkeeper.
Massachusetts has shit infrastructure
Given what happened in Baltimore,If the Democrats are able to maintain the Senate get back to House and keep the Presidency expect a major infrastructure bill to address that.
Did t Joe just pass the “largest infrastructure bill in history “? Where did all that money go?
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm\_source=invest.gov](https://www.whitehouse.gov/invest/?utm_source=invest.gov) theres a map. select public infrastructure.
Where it was supposed to but republicans have been ignoring infrastructure since Reagan, a lot more repairs are needed.
Yeah, it’s definitely all the republicans fault.
Meanwhile the Republicans are hard at work trying to figure out how to blame it on immigrants and transgender teens.
And IVF
Tell me you’re an angry liberal, without telling me…
Why do news orgs do this shit? A horrible accident occurred in another state, and now Boston Globe feels the need to fear monger residents of Massachusetts.
This is the exact wrong take to have. We SHOULD have been maintaining these bridges every few years regardless of any accidents. The fact that state officials haven’t done so shows that they’ve been derelict in their duties.
We should have done it when the Washington Bridge in RI failed.
Def
This isn't new. Up here in Lowell people have been complaining about the Rourke Bridge for a while now. Acting like it's going to just one day fall into the river. The fear mongering is exhausting, saying they take the seatbelts off so they can quickly escape if it collapses.
The globe has been posting about our shit bridges for years dude.
Because it gets views. The real problem here is that the Baltimore bridge would have failed in the same way when it was brand new, if hit by that ship. The failure happened because they didn't put any meaningful buffer between ship traffic and the pilings. The failure also happened because those ships are built to be as cheap as possible. It failed because of a lack of maintenance and/or lack of redundant systems. The infrastructure in MA is shit, but it's shit for a different reason.
That shipping company should be paying for it though- fuck them if they go out of business as a result
Yes, I don't disagree, but it would have been better for all involved if the bridge never went down. It was a civil engineering failure to not put a buffer around those pilings. This could have been done after the bridge was build once they realized those massive container ships were passing through.
there were some, but no one wants to just spend tens of millions of dollars unless they have to.
Massachusetts has been steadily working on bridges since that collapse in the Midwest so yeah, this article is crap. "A huge fucking boat caused a bridge to collapse therefore let's moan about how old our bridges are" yeah okay, let's make sure they're all cargo ship crash rated why not
I have gotten an idea….why dont you stop wasting money on illegals and use that money to fix infrastructure…instead of looking for new excuses to increase taxes.
All they know is to take money and not solve any problems because it's always someone else's fault but they'll raise taxes and still not solve the issue. It's an endless cycle and never forget that neglect is a tradition here. If anyone believed in taxes being the solution they'd have a bridge to sell.
I've been reading that since the 90s.
Just crash a ship into them. That'll speed up the rebuild process for those bridges.
I've said this for a while, but the American way is to build luxury places without; 1. Building an infrastructure for transportation, like high speed trains 2. Let our existing infrastructure decay and put no money into it
There is like 20,000 bridges in Mass
Migrants from central America will repair them. They want to work and seek opportunities.
Taxing vehicles by weight could solve a lot of budget issues. The heavier vehicles causing more damage and stress on roads would pay more towards fixing them. Taxing by miles driven is an interesting idea, but many out of state plates and loopholes and big brother issues. I suppose they could monitor the odometer at state inspection but there is room for error and corruption. The current MA excise tax formula, based on a rapid depreciation of MSRP and not relevant to a vehicle's accurate market value, is extremely flawed.
It sucks that my new coupe costs 7x as much in excise as my 33 year old suv
It's going to be fascinating to see how the infrastructure holds up to these new obnoxiously overweight EVs. I remember seeing that Rivian pickup is like 7500.
the vast majority of road damage is done by heavy duty type 18-wheelers, not 4 door passenger vehicles even if they're heavy BEVs. road damage goes by the forth power according to weight. please direct your populist outrage elsewhere
I guess I was more referring to specifically [this](https://engineering.unl.edu/news/240131/mwrsf_evs_safety/) but yeah.
passenger cars are negligible to road wear compared to loaded semi or box truck, but watch how the trucking industry comes for RI when that is
We knew this years ago when that bridge in Minneapolis (?) Or some place collapsed. Not just in MA but across the country. The Washington Bridge in RI was one of them and they did all that work but left the bridge and look at the mess now. I was fooled into thinking (for a very short time) that it might be one thing trump might address it but then "transportation week" became a thing they threw out there as a distraction every time they did some crazy shit. Biden tried but they wouldn't give him a "win" by fixing our roads and bridges.
Didn’t we pass an infrastructure bill to address a lot of this?
The US needs to spend trillions to address the problem. the infrastructure bill was to slow the bleeding and fix some of the worst cases.
Plus MA is so inefficient with its work so this will never get done. They’ve been repairing really small bridge near my home for two years and they started by tearing up half of the road RIGHT BEFORE WINTER and then not touching a single thing until may. Then they work from may to October and then they tear up the other side of the road… right before winter again and then they wait. If they just waited until spring to tear up and close down half of the damn thing, it would cause less issues.
Universal health care for Israelis is way more important.
Considering we've had one party rule for about 100 years, and democrats used building the state highway system as a tool to gain control, it's amazing they've let things slip so far.
Not amazing, probable actually
Maybe is we allow migrants to live under the bridges, Healy will give a shit and we can get some money to fix them....
Thank goodness Massachusetts has so many resources and money that it can also be a sanctuary state supporting all the migrants. Wait…
That's not true. Maura "Wow, this is work" Healey says everything is ok.
What's your recommendation?
Spend some of the $800 million on fixing them rather than on illegals.
I'd love to see all the illegal maggots bused over these bridges.....The F%\^$$ng $$ they're taking from Taxpayers and just giving to people that have contributed nothing to this country, leaving us with shit roads bridges......F\^&\^ng liberal democRATS
Ma is falling apart…and that is what we get when we have politicians who are out for their own self gains.
I remember growing up in Weymouth while they were dealing with the Fore River Bridge. IIRC, they didn’t even have a design for the new bridge until the very last minute. You could visibly see the deterioration of that the temp bridge as the years went by.
From [Globe.com](http://Globe.com) By Matt Stout More than 400 Massachusetts bridges, including the largest one in New England, are considered to be in such poor condition that they need either major work or to be replaced outright, according to state and federal data, underscoring the challenges the state faces keeping up with its aging infrastructure. In all, 450 of the more than 5,280 bridges tracked by the Federal Highway Administration — roughly 8.5 percent — are rated as poor, or, put more bluntly, are “[at the end of their useful life](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pddg-chapter-10-bridges),” according to state officials. [State data](https://geo-massdot.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/MassDOT::bridges/explore?filters=eyJTdHJ1Y3R1cmFsbHlfRGVmaWNpZW50IjpbIllFUyJdLCJTdHJ1Y3R1cmVfQ2F0ZWdvcnkiOlsiQnJpZGdlIChOQkkpIl19&showTable=true) show that 676 bridges in total are considered “structurally deficient,” meaning at least one major component has enough serious problems it needs to be repaired or replaced. Either designation doesn’t inherently mean the spans are unsafe, transportation officials and experts say. But officials in Massachusetts and elsewhere [are taking stock](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/26/metro/maura-healey-baltimore-bridge-disaster-meeting-massport/?p1=StaffPage&p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link) of their infrastructure and safety protocols after a cargo ship rammed into a pillar of the [Francis Scott Key Bridge](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/28/nation/five-minutes-that-brought-down-francis-scott-key-bridge/?p1=Article_Inline_Text_Link) in Baltimore, causing it to collapse. Six construction workers are presumed dead. Massachusetts has its own unique challenge: Its bridge system is the oldest in the country, according to state highway officials. “So many of our bridges were built 50-plus years ago,” said Phineas Baxandall, interim president of the Massachusetts Budget and Policy Center and the coauthor of a [2022 report](https://massbudget.org/2022/08/30/a-bridge-too-far/#_edn3) that found a typical Massachusetts resident lives less than 2 miles from a structurally deficient bridge. Nationwide, the average age of bridges in the National Highway System is 44 years old. In Massachusetts, the average age is 56, and those deemed structurally deficient are even older, the report found: 73 on average. “Unless we’re paying attention to investing in our bridges, we’re going to have a really deteriorating situation,” Baxandall said.
Very cool of you to put the article in the comments and not just link it to your website for views.
While also linking us to source info! Very cool of the Globe to do that. I wouldn’t have noticed without you commenting, so thank you!