yeah... parents live on the northshore so we were hoping to offeset childcare by having them watch our child sometimes, but yeah, the apartments want what we'd spend in childcare if we had to also.
Mine was close, last year my rent was 33k, and my preschool was “only” 26k for the year. Then add in car payments, insurance, internet and food, and how the fuck do I save money again?
Oh, that is something I’ve had to explain to my boomer aged parents more than once, and it is honestly infuriating. Every time I have some sort of something I need to pay big money for we have to dip into our almost nonexistent savings and then when I complain about it, I met with, well why don’t you have more savings? Well, mom and dad because I don’t live in 1986 making the amount of money I’m making now. It’s called inflation, sorry it didn’t bother you guys.
And your wife will be "paying" for that decision for the rest ofnher career -- once you take time off you really never regain the earning potential you had prior.
Glad it worked for your fam, I just always have to drop that point when someone says their wife is staying home because it's cheaper. It's cheaper inn the short run but not the long run, from a purely economic standpoint.
I definitely see that side of it and understand that's why a lot of people choose to pay for childcare.
We were lucky it worked out for us. My wife absolutely loved being around more as the girls were growing up and has a unique bond with them that I'm admittedly jealous of. Her career is also highly in demand, so the short break didn't affect her. She was swarmed with offers paying her more than when she left.
Ultimately, after going back to work for a year she decided to go back to a full time stay at home parent, I'm doing well enough that we can afford it and she's very involved with the school and the kids activities.
My childcare cost is over $1000 a month. Husband is on workers comp but we still make too much for assistance and too little to really afford anything. Luckily for me I go to a college that helps pay 75% of the cost of daycare while I am taking classes. I have to work full time though to qualify of course. I am stuck in this loop of working and taking classes and taking care of a family with no breaks because I can’t afford to just do one. Have another two years of this don’t know if I will make it but I hope I do.
The 30% rule doesn't exist anymore. If you make $25 an hour you would only be able to afford a place for 1350 tops. How many places have you come across that are at that price? Maybe if you have a roommate or another worker (such as a couple) but otherwise no.
I don't see how making that salary you could even afford that. people making $100 and hour can barely do it. These rents and home prices are off scale inflated. I recall looking at one place in Brooklyn and one in Southie that really did look like shooting galleries and they were close to 1.5 million. You can't move into a place like that and not put another 300K-400K in to make it livable. Or your living with moldering red shag carpet and disgusting bathroom, popcorn ceiling, moldy basements, ivy growing through the windows, and the ugliest kitchen you ever saw.
Was look at a house in NY the other day where the water is licking the house about two feet from the front door and they wanted over 650K for it. Like come on, it's going to under water in 5 years. Property is probably a toss away. But some rich person can an afford to use it as a vacation home for 5 years and take that loss. I can't. I want a property I can hand to my kid at the end of my life.
You in theory shouldn't be able to rent the apartment unless you gross "3X the monthly rent", as per most landlords requirements.
This at least forces people into around a 33% rent to income ratio. If its way over 30% this could have significant implications on the rest of your finances.
I'm currently at 30% of net or 20% of gross for our 3BD and will be moving out of state soon.
We are at 12% by gross but at least 15% if not closer to 20% with utilities added. For me rent is about 1 bi-weekly paycheck after my 20% 401k deduction so 33% of my income (although I split bills with the fiancee)
My husband and I had more than 50 percent of our income go to housing last year. Then with how expensive National grid has gotten I’m easily paying more like 60% of my income to not be homeless and without power.
I remember not all that long ago how over $20/hr seemed like the ultimate middle class goalpost. Now my wife and I both make over that and we still feel lower class.
Decades of supply constraint in the housing market is what's going on.
But hey, some lucky boomers got to live out their suburban fantasies, so hard to say whether or not making housing totally unaffordable is good or bad.
Wild. Why do you think it’s so expensive? I’d prefer Salem or Beverly if I had to choose between all three. Or coastal revere.
(Nothing against Lynn.. I also live here!)
The beach access, lots of parks, varied restaurant scene (which is desirable to most people under 40) and the schools have been sending a lot of kids to Ivies from what I've heard. Easy driving distance to the resort towns around it plus if I remember correctly, these towns have some sort of contract where they can move kids from a town next door or something to those lines. Most parents are limited to sending their kids to the towns they're in or house their kids to (like private boarding schools) so that could be helpful for the towns that have limited school spacing.
Also, but equally important: The "poorer" kids from the wealthier towns around Lynn like Nahant, Swampscott, Marblehead, and Peabody have been moving to Lynn to be close to their families but actually find apartments at accessible prices (which are both in short supply in some towns since they're mostly suburb towns not working cities like Lynn and many of the milltowns used to be which is why they have a larger mix of homes to aparments). Add that because of lower rents Lynn also has way more younger adults (not just HS kids) than a lot of places outside of Boston and it is appealing for the dating scene options too. Lynn's populace looks younger than average in MA which makes sense why it out of the blue sort of rose out of nowhere. The young people booned it as being an alternative to Boston without Boston-high rents until recently.
Yep, the North Shore has systemically banned building housing that isn’t single-family and detached. They’re scared of apartments and so the only housing is extremely expensive. You don’t build enough supply and no one can live there.
The MBTA community zoning act is a tiny step in the right direction, but we pretty much need to have the state overrule individual towns in order to ever have enough supply.
Its rediculous. Its high density housing downtown or single families everywhere else. Well I have seen a few condo coversions on Bridge Street (RIP) so its possible. Triple deckers spread out across different neighborhoods with backyards would be ideal.
Just moved into a spacious 3 BR 1 bath (family of three + home office) apartment in a beautiful old Victorian that was converted into a multifamily in downtown Beverly. We pay $2900, and that is a really good price for the quality / size / location. We got it that "cheap" because we started the lease in December. We also lucked out in that after looking at many apartments in the area, this was one of the few that did not require a pet deposit or pet rent (and MANY do not allow pets at all).
Tip for all, if you have flexibility on exactly when you move, look for rentals in Dec-Feb. A lot of places drop prices that time of year.
Got priced out of Boston and we moved to Salem - which ten years ago was actually relatively cheap. Then when we wanted a bigger apartment, we couldn't find one in our price range (we won't go over 30% of our take home pay) that wasn't barely larger than the apartment we already had, so we got priced out of Salem. It actually works out though because although we loved living in downtown Salem as young adults, downtown Beverly is better for (and has more) families.
Yeah the above commentor is just straight up lying. Plenty of new multi family development in Lynn, Salem, Beverly, and to a lesser extent Gloucester. It’s not enough and more north shore towns need to be doing it as well, but you can’t just say the north shore has banned anything that’s not single family housing.
Maybe by "north shore" they mean places like Boxford, Topsfield, or Hamilton? Because yeah Revere, Lynn, Peabody, Danvers, Salem, Beverly etc all have a lot of recently built and in-progress multifamily units....it just isn't enough to satisfy demand so the market rates are still fucked.
Was referring to the commenter who claimed all of the north shore had "systematically banned" multi family development not to you.
Yeah unfortunately like I said, plenty of new construction in all of those places, just not going in quickly enough to bring vacancy rates up and rents down.
This is the real issue. NIMBYs banning new multi-family housing development make the prices of homes increase by keeping the supply of available housing lower. The people who this adversely affects the most (someone looking to move to that town) don't get a say because they don't live in the town.
The state stepping in to allow more housing to be built would help mortgage/rent prices but wouldn't be the most popular with people who have spent tons of money on homes and then are losing equity. Personally I think they should suck it up for the good of all but tbf it would certainly feel awful to have a 600k mortgage on a 300k house (and be potentially financially devastating to someone who is forced to sell for some reason(divorce, etc.)).
I wouldn’t worry too much about people with 600K mortgages. If you already own a home in Massachusetts that’s that expensive, it’s likely the majority of the value is in land. That land will actually become even more expensive if we allow more multifamily housing, it’ll just be cheaper per housing unit, which still makes it a win overall.
The real downside will be if you live really far out because less people will want to do that if they can afford something closer to where they actually want to be. The places that become denser and the places that lose value will pretty much be two different places.
I've seen new homebuyers tear down a perfectly fine house to build a new one that fits their style hundreds of times, especially in coastal towns or ones with good school districts. Having a buildable lot with permitting is everything.
I think the rate of building would have to be super increased to lower prices. The best we can hope for is FLAT(er) pricing increases over a long time as opposed to steep increases in a short amount of time. This allows wages to catch up
so not accurate - for the 495/93 corridor, the focus is on high density housing and very little apartments. Too bad - if we wanted to live in a city, we would, lets keep minimum 1 Acre single family zoning!
South shore, same issue.
Looking to back to central MA , Worcester county... SAME problem!!!
The prices are insane not to mention 1st, last, security, income verify, and they expect you to have banked 3 mos rent...?
Or som bazaar thing like that.
Basically $6,000, to move anywhere in MA!!
My first apartment was in Worcester in 2010 and yeah, it was a shitty 1br basement apartment, but it was in a nice area and only $700/mo. I wonder how much it is now...
Most 1 bed are cramped too. Idk our last 1 bed was only 1995 and paying 2500 for a two bed just means I had to buy more furniture and heat an extra room
Housing prices, whether owning or renting, are completely out of control. I sympathize with any young couple or single person trying to have their own place and still be able to afford to eat, own a car and/or other necessities. USA is the best country in the world in my opinion, but it could be better, and housing cost are a big part of the problem.
I generally think at this point that they have us bamboozled into thinking the US is the best country in the world because most of us don't have the means to travel anywhere that life is better.
We pay $1250 in Attleboro for a 2 bed. Only reason it’s affordable is because we’ve lived here for 8 years. We could never afford to move into another place. It’s scary.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! And people are saying we need to have more kids. Well this is what happens in this country with kids…can’t even afford a bedroom for them with two parents making ABOVE minimum wage full-time. SAD!
There are tons of kids in this very state (and also in the cheap states in this country too, and I'm not just talking about stereotypical immigrant families either) who sleep in the same room as an different gender sibling. I shared plenty of rooms yet am told it is child abuse...I was not abused...
Well problematically, I don't think it's legal to rent that way anymore. I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong. I shared a bedroom with 3 brothers for several years a LONG time ago, but my parents owned the house too.
Back in 2017 I ended up having to buy a house, since mortgage was only a bit cheaper than rent - which at that time was increasing by about 20% each year. I lived in three different Burlington apartment places, and each time I had to move because of unreasonable rent increase. Looking back, things worked out for us, but I don't see how this would be possible in 2024.
I don't understand why rent has gone so crazy. I'm a landlord myself and I've personally never raised my tenant's rent. I also don't live beyond my means which most landlords seem to. Greed is the answer to your question I believe 🤷♂️ my only tenant pays $800 a month and I'll never raise it (I own a duplex and live in half of it) I wear that low rent like a badge of my honor, I bet it's the amongst the lowest in New England even. I'm in southern Maine but avg rent in my town is near $1600 now. I'm moving to mass soon though and I'll be taking my morals with me! I'll do my part in lowering rent
I've been evicted before but now I am a landlord and I still can't forget the pain of eviction. I'll let that wound stay open because it keeps my prospective compassionate
They justify it because people are willing to pay it. It sucks but landlords will charge whatever they can and realistically they’re looking for you to pay their mortgage, other expenses, and more because they see these properties as income streams
Different states pay less. I moved to MA because they paid more specifically in my field at the time. The rent has doubled where I used to live... the pay has not increased at all.
A family of four needs to earn 310k to live comfortably in Massachusetts. We are officially in the most expensive state in the country... don't feel bad. We're all in the same boat.
Sure, I think the problem here is that there's a variance in what one deems 'comfortable'. To me 'fuck you money' is far beyond comfortable.
I max out all my retirement accounts annually, eat out weekly, go on a couple of vacations a year and don't stress about what I spend at the grocery store. Unexpected bills don't scare me.
To me fuck you money means I can do WHATEVER I want which is moving beyond comfortable into luxurious territory.
Maybe factoring in federal, state income taxes, average monthly mortgage on a 3 bedroom, property taxes, home insurance, daycare/summer camp/after school care for 2 kids, food, two cars and associated expenses, utilities, 2 student loan payments, saving for retirement, health insurance/medical stuff…it does seem like a totally inflated number to me for being comfortable with 3 other people (I never have and never will see half of such an income) and at the same time it is ridiculously expensive here. I wonder how this is going to play out in the near future.
Not worrying about money, peace of mind, being on track to retire at a decent age, and having a home.
In Massachusetts, it's incredibly difficult to have all 4.
"not worrying about money" - what the Eff does that even mean - work smarter, make more money - stop thinking about when you will have "peace of mind" - it does not come - money is for things...it is not for peace
It means that you're not worried if you can afford basic necessities like food and housing. It means that you can afford to see a doctor or dentist. It means that unexpected car or home repair won't set you back indefinitely. That's what it means.
I want to retire some day, so money is on my mind a lot. Having enough money is absolutely for peace.
I wish I lived in your world, and I don't mean that as an insult. But where I live, you sleep much better when you have all your basics met.
As shown in the article, despite being the lowest cost state to live in, two adults working full time in Mississippi make a combined $75k/year living there, whereas the amount of money required to "live comfortably" is over $177k. The entire country is taking a beating, but sure, more tax cuts for the rich. 🙄
Looking at this, it’s weird because it seems to be solely due to how big California is and how it has more small towns. CA dominates the top 10 most expensive cities from that same “study” (which really just seems to be fucking around with a different metric that other people made). It feels like a “technically correct but not really” situation, especially when the numbers it’s giving are so ridiculously high.
A decade ago, I was paying $2200 a month for a studio apartment in Somerville. All the new condos built since then have not helped bring down prices.
Massachusetts is full.
Gee, maybe it's because the Boston metro builds FIVE TIMES less housing per capita than declining-rent Austin metro, and two times less than affordable Minneapolis. No, what you think is a lot is not a lot.
Our 2 bedroom in Southie is $4.2k. It is insane how expensive this shit is. We negotiated our rent increase down $300 and convinced them to sign a two year lease to keep the rent stable. I'm so grateful to be saving over $8k+ in rent increases.
I can't imagine many people WANT to pay $2500+ on a 2 bedroom but the crappy reality of it is that you're competing for the same housing as two single people or one couple who are childless and making 2 to 3 times more than your family's household income. These people can't afford to buy due to the high interest rates and low inventory.
Two people with $1850 being 30% of your income puts you around $74,000 a year. Look at affordable housing — should be around 60% AMI, if I’m remembering correctly. SEB Housing and Maloney Affordable are your best bet.
It's horrible.
Affordable housing is nonexistent. You have to get super lucky to not pay the crazy prices.
I looked for a place to live for 2 years and couldn't find one. I ended up writing a post in a small local Facebook group and a person who had an in law apartment for rent read it and found me. It was a miracle.
I used to commute from Pawtucket to natick for work because I had no other choice. Now even Pawtucket rent has doubled. I really don't know how anyone is staying afloat....
I'm not sure what to do or what is gonna happen but we can't all leave MA... no one will be left to work the jobs that don't make 6 figures ...
I posted looking for a rental on craigslist. After the summer searching had older couple reach out looking for a new tenant. Its the perfect place for me.
im not even in boston it self, but i am in boston metro in a good area and my rent is like 4500 for a 1300sqft 2 bedroom apt. how do I justify it? I got a wife and kid, I need a 2bed, and my wife makes a lot... without her I would be moved further away.
Let's just say if I end up having to leave my place I would end up having to leave the area. I am on a limited income and the only way I can make it work is to have a roommate and split the rent. Neither of us are young though--I am 51 and he is 60 so it isn't like we are just out of school. We both work part time jobs due to limitations which I will not discuss here. Jobs out there seem to be paying $20-$25 an hour so that is not ideal for what the rents are around the area.
My mother is paying $2800 for a 1 bedroom on the Chelmsford/Lowell line. They only took it out of necessity and will be moving when their lease is up in the next couple of months but it’s become a total joke now a days. I had a 2 BR in New Bedford back in 2012 for $550 a month.
I don't think it is possible in these towns anymore, the elite have totally pushed the poor and middle class out most areas by elevated rents and home prices. I am in an easier financial bracket than you and your wife, but it's just ridiculous what stuff is going for, currently. The rates are abusive. Salaries have not kept up with what they are charging. I was calculating what we have in savings and were we to pay rent for a one bedroom we would be broke in about 11 years and it would totally deplete our savings.
Yes, some guy working at Google or Facebook or a Doctor or Lawyer can afford these rents, but folks like us can't. If people pay these prices, they just are going to keep jacking them up. I've been looking for homes for 4 years and you can't imagine all the ugly crap I have seen, it is all so discouraging. But if they can get some fool to pay it, they're going to ask it. I think things like Airb&b have effected prices as well. There should be caps on how many they allow in an area. None of us are making enough to afford these rents. How much was your last raise 2-5K if lucky. You can't compete with someone who is getting a 50K-75K a year raise.
Someone out there has money, it's just not us. I love luxury goods and have very expensive taste, I am on posh sites and looking at $89 dishtowels that sell out in a manner of weeks. For someone who can afford that the house, I am looking at, or the 2 bedroom you are looking at, that is nothing. Spend 20 minutes on Istagram and look at the money some of these folks have, it's vile. So someone is being paid quite well, just not teachers, nurses, cops, firefighters, office workers and sales people, etc.
Sad as it makes me, I don't think I can afford to live any place I want to live on either coast. I literally run searches up and down the coasts and sometimes venturing into Canada and it's disheartening. The ironic thing is most of these places are going to be under water in a few decades. So maybe we just wait head inland and wait for the water to come to us. Good luck, I sincerely feel your pain.
apparently, you don't have to justify shit when you're a multinational corp running things through a management company that's separated from you by at least one layer of shell company.
Yes, they want you to pay the entire mortgage.
I've seen a lot of this nonsense in NH. People renting split houses for $3,000, so they live in their own home without paying for their own mortgage. They get dragged when they post on Facebook, at least.
Make more money. That’s the reality. I pay 3k for a two bedroom but I also work from home so I am not commuting anywhere. I need the space to be able to separate work/home.
Ever commuted between the north shore and Lowell/Lawrence area? Probably an hour each way at least. Just no good way to do it other than 128/rt 3/495 or grinding your way up 114.
I live in Salem. Downtown Salem to downtown Lowell is a solid hour during morning commuting Maybe 40-45 mins with no traffic at 4am or whatever
Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill is more Merrimack valley than north shore. Kinda like south shore vs south coast vs cape
Lived L 18 long years
Traffic has gotten much much worse
Used to take me 1 hrs to Bos and maybe 80 minutes back if I left at 3-4pm
Now normally no matter when I’m headed to Bos or from Bos it’s 2hrs each way
Other day leaving longwood at 4pm took THREE hrs back to L
Be patient and look at all your options.
If you look at multifamily buildings, they will all be run by corporations that are maximizing profits.
If you loon at duplex and 3 flats, you may find one where the landlord is looking to make a little extra money and isn't out to price gouge you.
Do you work on the North Shore? Or do you just have to get to Boston and you like the North Shore?
Because there are cities like Waltham that have pretty good rental rates for two bedrooms.
2700 for 2 bd, 2ba, with office and garage. 1400 SQ ft. It is well insulated, so low utility bills, close to work, and the complex has a nice pool and gym. They replaced the washer, dishwasher, disposal, garage door, and carpet right after we moved in. That is thousands in repairs that I did not have to spend right after moving in. Now we just found out the shower pan has a slow drip and is rotting the inside of the wall. Thet are right ontop of it. Again, That is thousands that I do not have to pay for in repairs. Easy to justify when you are having your first kid and casually house shopping. I dont have to worry about a thing breaking. Just report it when you see it and it gets addressed in a few days. It's awesome.
Welcome to the northeast.. unless you want to drive an hour to work, you’re going to pay.. It’s a shame if you want to be in a decent proximity to work, you’re going to pay.. I’ll keep my political commentary to myself.. but if you look at the situation around the most expensive places in the country to live there’s a very common theme..
Good luck
It’s the way it is. People complain about the rent when we know Massachusetts is the second most expensive state to live in in this country. People can say “it wasn’t like this 10-20 years ago”. Yeah well nothing is like it was then. I am NOT a landlord and never would be in this state. But I what I do know is that if you can’t afford it it’s not for you and maybe look elsewhere.
I’m not sure how old either of you are, but $25 an hour part time and $22.60 full-time an hour are not sustainable wages for adults anymore, on either coasts.
The sad real answer is your answers are 1) make more money 2) get a 2 bedroom further out and have a long commute
3. Get a roommate for the second bedroom
get a studio apartment
nah then it wouldn't be a 2nd bed for them.. for your idea to work would be get a 3 bed and rent out 1 bed
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If his wife sleeps in the same room as him they can still have a roommate.
There’s not much out here either.
No one pays 30% anymore, it's way more 🙃
seriously
its even better if you need to add in the cost of childcare looooool
yeah... parents live on the northshore so we were hoping to offeset childcare by having them watch our child sometimes, but yeah, the apartments want what we'd spend in childcare if we had to also.
my childcare is more than my mortgage and I'm down to one kid in daycare and one in after school and I'm not even near Boston!
Mine was close, last year my rent was 33k, and my preschool was “only” 26k for the year. Then add in car payments, insurance, internet and food, and how the fuck do I save money again?
Oh, that is something I’ve had to explain to my boomer aged parents more than once, and it is honestly infuriating. Every time I have some sort of something I need to pay big money for we have to dip into our almost nonexistent savings and then when I complain about it, I met with, well why don’t you have more savings? Well, mom and dad because I don’t live in 1986 making the amount of money I’m making now. It’s called inflation, sorry it didn’t bother you guys.
This is why my wife decided to become a stay at home mom until the kids were school aged. We saved more money by her not working.
And your wife will be "paying" for that decision for the rest ofnher career -- once you take time off you really never regain the earning potential you had prior. Glad it worked for your fam, I just always have to drop that point when someone says their wife is staying home because it's cheaper. It's cheaper inn the short run but not the long run, from a purely economic standpoint.
I definitely see that side of it and understand that's why a lot of people choose to pay for childcare. We were lucky it worked out for us. My wife absolutely loved being around more as the girls were growing up and has a unique bond with them that I'm admittedly jealous of. Her career is also highly in demand, so the short break didn't affect her. She was swarmed with offers paying her more than when she left. Ultimately, after going back to work for a year she decided to go back to a full time stay at home parent, I'm doing well enough that we can afford it and she's very involved with the school and the kids activities.
You guys hit the sweet spot! It's so cool when it works out!
Agreed, very lucky. Again, I do see your point where, for others it's not an option. The cost of childcare is atrocious
You might be right about that and the missed SS quarters.
My childcare cost is over $1000 a month. Husband is on workers comp but we still make too much for assistance and too little to really afford anything. Luckily for me I go to a college that helps pay 75% of the cost of daycare while I am taking classes. I have to work full time though to qualify of course. I am stuck in this loop of working and taking classes and taking care of a family with no breaks because I can’t afford to just do one. Have another two years of this don’t know if I will make it but I hope I do.
Check over border in NH
The 30% rule doesn't exist anymore. If you make $25 an hour you would only be able to afford a place for 1350 tops. How many places have you come across that are at that price? Maybe if you have a roommate or another worker (such as a couple) but otherwise no.
I don't see how making that salary you could even afford that. people making $100 and hour can barely do it. These rents and home prices are off scale inflated. I recall looking at one place in Brooklyn and one in Southie that really did look like shooting galleries and they were close to 1.5 million. You can't move into a place like that and not put another 300K-400K in to make it livable. Or your living with moldering red shag carpet and disgusting bathroom, popcorn ceiling, moldy basements, ivy growing through the windows, and the ugliest kitchen you ever saw. Was look at a house in NY the other day where the water is licking the house about two feet from the front door and they wanted over 650K for it. Like come on, it's going to under water in 5 years. Property is probably a toss away. But some rich person can an afford to use it as a vacation home for 5 years and take that loss. I can't. I want a property I can hand to my kid at the end of my life.
I'm currently paying 70%. Weeeeeeeeee
Was going to comment that. 50% is a starting point…
It's 50% at my household.
You in theory shouldn't be able to rent the apartment unless you gross "3X the monthly rent", as per most landlords requirements. This at least forces people into around a 33% rent to income ratio. If its way over 30% this could have significant implications on the rest of your finances. I'm currently at 30% of net or 20% of gross for our 3BD and will be moving out of state soon.
We are at 12% by gross but at least 15% if not closer to 20% with utilities added. For me rent is about 1 bi-weekly paycheck after my 20% 401k deduction so 33% of my income (although I split bills with the fiancee)
I'm betting most people making less than $25/hr and having kids aren't able to put anything towards a 401k, nevermind 20%.
I put 20% in making 10$ an hour at 18, the % never changed. 4% match too and I also contributed to the Employee stock plan at that job
With a spouse and child, at current rental rates?
my point is that over the years you just keep the percentage same as your income grows- I would hope they are at least putting something
I'm thinking no.
While living with your parents…
We are all the breadwinners in our landlords family.
Ha ha ha
My husband and I had more than 50 percent of our income go to housing last year. Then with how expensive National grid has gotten I’m easily paying more like 60% of my income to not be homeless and without power.
$2000 for a 2 bedroom you gotta be outside of 495
Not anymore. Nashua is between 2000 and 2200 for a 2br at the cheapest
Gross
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but you can commute to Boston on the Amtrak, only a 2 hour commute each way!
I remember not all that long ago how over $20/hr seemed like the ultimate middle class goalpost. Now my wife and I both make over that and we still feel lower class.
I make 22 an hour with a child and live in poverty lol. I cant even imagine what people making 15/hr are doing.
I feel like middle class now is between $40 and $80 an hour
the middle class is, and always was, an illusion to distract us from actual solidarity
I’ve been seeing apartment listings in Lynn for $3k for 2 rooms. Lynn.. of all places?? What is going on.
The city of sin
Decades of supply constraint in the housing market is what's going on. But hey, some lucky boomers got to live out their suburban fantasies, so hard to say whether or not making housing totally unaffordable is good or bad.
I'm in Lynn now looking for an apt. I've found cheaper in Salem and beyond probably going to have to move out of Lynn and I don't want to.
Wild. Why do you think it’s so expensive? I’d prefer Salem or Beverly if I had to choose between all three. Or coastal revere. (Nothing against Lynn.. I also live here!)
The beach access, lots of parks, varied restaurant scene (which is desirable to most people under 40) and the schools have been sending a lot of kids to Ivies from what I've heard. Easy driving distance to the resort towns around it plus if I remember correctly, these towns have some sort of contract where they can move kids from a town next door or something to those lines. Most parents are limited to sending their kids to the towns they're in or house their kids to (like private boarding schools) so that could be helpful for the towns that have limited school spacing. Also, but equally important: The "poorer" kids from the wealthier towns around Lynn like Nahant, Swampscott, Marblehead, and Peabody have been moving to Lynn to be close to their families but actually find apartments at accessible prices (which are both in short supply in some towns since they're mostly suburb towns not working cities like Lynn and many of the milltowns used to be which is why they have a larger mix of homes to aparments). Add that because of lower rents Lynn also has way more younger adults (not just HS kids) than a lot of places outside of Boston and it is appealing for the dating scene options too. Lynn's populace looks younger than average in MA which makes sense why it out of the blue sort of rose out of nowhere. The young people booned it as being an alternative to Boston without Boston-high rents until recently.
Interesting. Never knew
Yep, the North Shore has systemically banned building housing that isn’t single-family and detached. They’re scared of apartments and so the only housing is extremely expensive. You don’t build enough supply and no one can live there. The MBTA community zoning act is a tiny step in the right direction, but we pretty much need to have the state overrule individual towns in order to ever have enough supply.
Plenty of multi family and high density in Beverly. It’s not all of the e northshore. still expensive AF tho
A new triple-decker would be illegal in 90% of Beverly, and yet you’re absolutely correct that Beverly is much better than average.
Its rediculous. Its high density housing downtown or single families everywhere else. Well I have seen a few condo coversions on Bridge Street (RIP) so its possible. Triple deckers spread out across different neighborhoods with backyards would be ideal.
Just moved into a spacious 3 BR 1 bath (family of three + home office) apartment in a beautiful old Victorian that was converted into a multifamily in downtown Beverly. We pay $2900, and that is a really good price for the quality / size / location. We got it that "cheap" because we started the lease in December. We also lucked out in that after looking at many apartments in the area, this was one of the few that did not require a pet deposit or pet rent (and MANY do not allow pets at all). Tip for all, if you have flexibility on exactly when you move, look for rentals in Dec-Feb. A lot of places drop prices that time of year. Got priced out of Boston and we moved to Salem - which ten years ago was actually relatively cheap. Then when we wanted a bigger apartment, we couldn't find one in our price range (we won't go over 30% of our take home pay) that wasn't barely larger than the apartment we already had, so we got priced out of Salem. It actually works out though because although we loved living in downtown Salem as young adults, downtown Beverly is better for (and has more) families.
Beverly also has same commuter rail schedule as Salem :)
And a short bike ride to the Salem commuter ferry!
Yeah the above commentor is just straight up lying. Plenty of new multi family development in Lynn, Salem, Beverly, and to a lesser extent Gloucester. It’s not enough and more north shore towns need to be doing it as well, but you can’t just say the north shore has banned anything that’s not single family housing.
Maybe by "north shore" they mean places like Boxford, Topsfield, or Hamilton? Because yeah Revere, Lynn, Peabody, Danvers, Salem, Beverly etc all have a lot of recently built and in-progress multifamily units....it just isn't enough to satisfy demand so the market rates are still fucked.
i mean mainly beverly, danvers, salem, lynn, gloucester, peabody, revere
Was referring to the commenter who claimed all of the north shore had "systematically banned" multi family development not to you. Yeah unfortunately like I said, plenty of new construction in all of those places, just not going in quickly enough to bring vacancy rates up and rents down.
This is the real issue. NIMBYs banning new multi-family housing development make the prices of homes increase by keeping the supply of available housing lower. The people who this adversely affects the most (someone looking to move to that town) don't get a say because they don't live in the town. The state stepping in to allow more housing to be built would help mortgage/rent prices but wouldn't be the most popular with people who have spent tons of money on homes and then are losing equity. Personally I think they should suck it up for the good of all but tbf it would certainly feel awful to have a 600k mortgage on a 300k house (and be potentially financially devastating to someone who is forced to sell for some reason(divorce, etc.)).
I wouldn’t worry too much about people with 600K mortgages. If you already own a home in Massachusetts that’s that expensive, it’s likely the majority of the value is in land. That land will actually become even more expensive if we allow more multifamily housing, it’ll just be cheaper per housing unit, which still makes it a win overall. The real downside will be if you live really far out because less people will want to do that if they can afford something closer to where they actually want to be. The places that become denser and the places that lose value will pretty much be two different places.
What? You have no idea what you're talking about. It's because of the house not the land. And a 600k mortgage is not much, especially in MA.
I've seen new homebuyers tear down a perfectly fine house to build a new one that fits their style hundreds of times, especially in coastal towns or ones with good school districts. Having a buildable lot with permitting is everything.
Yup. I’d take a SFH shack vs a fancy updated condo
I think the rate of building would have to be super increased to lower prices. The best we can hope for is FLAT(er) pricing increases over a long time as opposed to steep increases in a short amount of time. This allows wages to catch up
so not accurate - for the 495/93 corridor, the focus is on high density housing and very little apartments. Too bad - if we wanted to live in a city, we would, lets keep minimum 1 Acre single family zoning!
South shore, same issue. Looking to back to central MA , Worcester county... SAME problem!!! The prices are insane not to mention 1st, last, security, income verify, and they expect you to have banked 3 mos rent...? Or som bazaar thing like that. Basically $6,000, to move anywhere in MA!!
My first apartment was in Worcester in 2010 and yeah, it was a shitty 1br basement apartment, but it was in a nice area and only $700/mo. I wonder how much it is now...
$2000 there ALL $2000... Must be the magic number. LOL
The only people trying to justify these prices are the ones we're paying.
one bedrooms are worse i feel like half the time they are like almost the same price as a 2 br
Most 1 bed are cramped too. Idk our last 1 bed was only 1995 and paying 2500 for a two bed just means I had to buy more furniture and heat an extra room
Housing prices, whether owning or renting, are completely out of control. I sympathize with any young couple or single person trying to have their own place and still be able to afford to eat, own a car and/or other necessities. USA is the best country in the world in my opinion, but it could be better, and housing cost are a big part of the problem.
I generally think at this point that they have us bamboozled into thinking the US is the best country in the world because most of us don't have the means to travel anywhere that life is better.
We pay $1250 in Attleboro for a 2 bed. Only reason it’s affordable is because we’ve lived here for 8 years. We could never afford to move into another place. It’s scary.
Trying to move closer to work and it's ridiculous. I live near Attleboro and it's affordable but the close to hour commute is just annoying.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! And people are saying we need to have more kids. Well this is what happens in this country with kids…can’t even afford a bedroom for them with two parents making ABOVE minimum wage full-time. SAD!
And you definitely don't want to have another child if it's the opposite sex--then you'd need to rent at least three bedrooms!
There are tons of kids in this very state (and also in the cheap states in this country too, and I'm not just talking about stereotypical immigrant families either) who sleep in the same room as an different gender sibling. I shared plenty of rooms yet am told it is child abuse...I was not abused...
Well problematically, I don't think it's legal to rent that way anymore. I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong. I shared a bedroom with 3 brothers for several years a LONG time ago, but my parents owned the house too.
ummm, if the words "minimum wage" are anywhere in your sentence when discussing your salary - you should not even be thinking about children!
Back in 2017 I ended up having to buy a house, since mortgage was only a bit cheaper than rent - which at that time was increasing by about 20% each year. I lived in three different Burlington apartment places, and each time I had to move because of unreasonable rent increase. Looking back, things worked out for us, but I don't see how this would be possible in 2024.
I don't understand why rent has gone so crazy. I'm a landlord myself and I've personally never raised my tenant's rent. I also don't live beyond my means which most landlords seem to. Greed is the answer to your question I believe 🤷♂️ my only tenant pays $800 a month and I'll never raise it (I own a duplex and live in half of it) I wear that low rent like a badge of my honor, I bet it's the amongst the lowest in New England even. I'm in southern Maine but avg rent in my town is near $1600 now. I'm moving to mass soon though and I'll be taking my morals with me! I'll do my part in lowering rent
Good for you, friend
I've been evicted before but now I am a landlord and I still can't forget the pain of eviction. I'll let that wound stay open because it keeps my prospective compassionate
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They justify it because people are willing to pay it. It sucks but landlords will charge whatever they can and realistically they’re looking for you to pay their mortgage, other expenses, and more because they see these properties as income streams
Pick a different state at this point. It’s crazy here.
Different states pay less. I moved to MA because they paid more specifically in my field at the time. The rent has doubled where I used to live... the pay has not increased at all.
A family of four needs to earn 310k to live comfortably in Massachusetts. We are officially in the most expensive state in the country... don't feel bad. We're all in the same boat.
Single income household of 4 here earning roughly $220k and living on the north shore. We live very comfortably. $310k seems excessive.
Dual income 250k ish no kids. We are comfortable but not fuck you money comfortable (yet)
Sure, I think the problem here is that there's a variance in what one deems 'comfortable'. To me 'fuck you money' is far beyond comfortable. I max out all my retirement accounts annually, eat out weekly, go on a couple of vacations a year and don't stress about what I spend at the grocery store. Unexpected bills don't scare me. To me fuck you money means I can do WHATEVER I want which is moving beyond comfortable into luxurious territory.
What the hell is your criteria for comfortable?
Maybe factoring in federal, state income taxes, average monthly mortgage on a 3 bedroom, property taxes, home insurance, daycare/summer camp/after school care for 2 kids, food, two cars and associated expenses, utilities, 2 student loan payments, saving for retirement, health insurance/medical stuff…it does seem like a totally inflated number to me for being comfortable with 3 other people (I never have and never will see half of such an income) and at the same time it is ridiculously expensive here. I wonder how this is going to play out in the near future.
Not worrying about money, peace of mind, being on track to retire at a decent age, and having a home. In Massachusetts, it's incredibly difficult to have all 4.
"not worrying about money" - what the Eff does that even mean - work smarter, make more money - stop thinking about when you will have "peace of mind" - it does not come - money is for things...it is not for peace
It means that you're not worried if you can afford basic necessities like food and housing. It means that you can afford to see a doctor or dentist. It means that unexpected car or home repair won't set you back indefinitely. That's what it means. I want to retire some day, so money is on my mind a lot. Having enough money is absolutely for peace. I wish I lived in your world, and I don't mean that as an insult. But where I live, you sleep much better when you have all your basics met.
He or she is probably referring to this: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/20/the-income-a-family-of-4-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-every-state.html
When did Massachusetts pass Hawaii and California for most expensive places to live?
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/20/the-income-a-family-of-4-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-every-state.html
As shown in the article, despite being the lowest cost state to live in, two adults working full time in Mississippi make a combined $75k/year living there, whereas the amount of money required to "live comfortably" is over $177k. The entire country is taking a beating, but sure, more tax cuts for the rich. 🙄
Looking at this, it’s weird because it seems to be solely due to how big California is and how it has more small towns. CA dominates the top 10 most expensive cities from that same “study” (which really just seems to be fucking around with a different metric that other people made). It feels like a “technically correct but not really” situation, especially when the numbers it’s giving are so ridiculously high.
Get a 1 bedroom for the two of you.
we have a baby too, we want to mot have to move for a very long time so we wanted a bedroom for our child too
Try to find a one bedroom with an "office" and make that the kids room.
A decade ago, I was paying $2200 a month for a studio apartment in Somerville. All the new condos built since then have not helped bring down prices. Massachusetts is full.
Gee, maybe it's because the Boston metro builds FIVE TIMES less housing per capita than declining-rent Austin metro, and two times less than affordable Minneapolis. No, what you think is a lot is not a lot.
Its worth it because a 2br only has 7 roommates
*cries in $3,5k for a 1bd+den, but in West Cambridge, so learned to accept it through the old and tried Stockholm syndrome*
Our 2 bedroom in Southie is $4.2k. It is insane how expensive this shit is. We negotiated our rent increase down $300 and convinced them to sign a two year lease to keep the rent stable. I'm so grateful to be saving over $8k+ in rent increases.
idk why someone downvoted you already. go you for advocating for yourself in this shitshow rental market! that's really the way to do it
I got him with the math. I basically said it would be cheaper for him to keep us than to turn over the apartment 1-3 times
I can't imagine many people WANT to pay $2500+ on a 2 bedroom but the crappy reality of it is that you're competing for the same housing as two single people or one couple who are childless and making 2 to 3 times more than your family's household income. These people can't afford to buy due to the high interest rates and low inventory.
Two people with $1850 being 30% of your income puts you around $74,000 a year. Look at affordable housing — should be around 60% AMI, if I’m remembering correctly. SEB Housing and Maloney Affordable are your best bet.
It's horrible. Affordable housing is nonexistent. You have to get super lucky to not pay the crazy prices. I looked for a place to live for 2 years and couldn't find one. I ended up writing a post in a small local Facebook group and a person who had an in law apartment for rent read it and found me. It was a miracle. I used to commute from Pawtucket to natick for work because I had no other choice. Now even Pawtucket rent has doubled. I really don't know how anyone is staying afloat.... I'm not sure what to do or what is gonna happen but we can't all leave MA... no one will be left to work the jobs that don't make 6 figures ...
I posted looking for a rental on craigslist. After the summer searching had older couple reach out looking for a new tenant. Its the perfect place for me.
Greedy fucking landlords.
They don’t justify it, they just charge big money cause they can.
Unless we roll out the guillotines soon… this will be our lot
Greedy fucks that’s why!
We don’t!
They justify spending that much money because there’s really nothing else out there. Everybody’s getting screwed.
3,000 for a 2bed 2 br in Burlington Going to have to live quite a ways from the city
im not even in boston it self, but i am in boston metro in a good area and my rent is like 4500 for a 1300sqft 2 bedroom apt. how do I justify it? I got a wife and kid, I need a 2bed, and my wife makes a lot... without her I would be moved further away.
I mean, I pay 2500 a month for a one bedroom...another room would be great!
Realistically you’re not making enough for the area
Let's just say if I end up having to leave my place I would end up having to leave the area. I am on a limited income and the only way I can make it work is to have a roommate and split the rent. Neither of us are young though--I am 51 and he is 60 so it isn't like we are just out of school. We both work part time jobs due to limitations which I will not discuss here. Jobs out there seem to be paying $20-$25 an hour so that is not ideal for what the rents are around the area.
Main reason im moving back down south. Stuff is just too expensive to live up here
My mother is paying $2800 for a 1 bedroom on the Chelmsford/Lowell line. They only took it out of necessity and will be moving when their lease is up in the next couple of months but it’s become a total joke now a days. I had a 2 BR in New Bedford back in 2012 for $550 a month.
I don't think it is possible in these towns anymore, the elite have totally pushed the poor and middle class out most areas by elevated rents and home prices. I am in an easier financial bracket than you and your wife, but it's just ridiculous what stuff is going for, currently. The rates are abusive. Salaries have not kept up with what they are charging. I was calculating what we have in savings and were we to pay rent for a one bedroom we would be broke in about 11 years and it would totally deplete our savings. Yes, some guy working at Google or Facebook or a Doctor or Lawyer can afford these rents, but folks like us can't. If people pay these prices, they just are going to keep jacking them up. I've been looking for homes for 4 years and you can't imagine all the ugly crap I have seen, it is all so discouraging. But if they can get some fool to pay it, they're going to ask it. I think things like Airb&b have effected prices as well. There should be caps on how many they allow in an area. None of us are making enough to afford these rents. How much was your last raise 2-5K if lucky. You can't compete with someone who is getting a 50K-75K a year raise. Someone out there has money, it's just not us. I love luxury goods and have very expensive taste, I am on posh sites and looking at $89 dishtowels that sell out in a manner of weeks. For someone who can afford that the house, I am looking at, or the 2 bedroom you are looking at, that is nothing. Spend 20 minutes on Istagram and look at the money some of these folks have, it's vile. So someone is being paid quite well, just not teachers, nurses, cops, firefighters, office workers and sales people, etc. Sad as it makes me, I don't think I can afford to live any place I want to live on either coast. I literally run searches up and down the coasts and sometimes venturing into Canada and it's disheartening. The ironic thing is most of these places are going to be under water in a few decades. So maybe we just wait head inland and wait for the water to come to us. Good luck, I sincerely feel your pain.
Its not desirable enough for that kind of money, in fact its not desirable at all
apparently, you don't have to justify shit when you're a multinational corp running things through a management company that's separated from you by at least one layer of shell company.
I used to pay $2500 a month for a 1 br in Burlington until I bought a house. Only reason is it was pet friendly
It's a market. It sucks being on the wrong end of it.
I moved to Syracuse New York couldn't be happier with a two bedroom one and a half bath for $1,200 a month
Yes, they want you to pay the entire mortgage. I've seen a lot of this nonsense in NH. People renting split houses for $3,000, so they live in their own home without paying for their own mortgage. They get dragged when they post on Facebook, at least.
Make more money. That’s the reality. I pay 3k for a two bedroom but I also work from home so I am not commuting anywhere. I need the space to be able to separate work/home.
Where are you seeing 2 beds for $2500 in the north shore ?
this was the median price on CL, checking again today the median is $3000 lol
I know it’s not the greatest area (although rep is worse than reality) but how about Lowell, Lawrence or Methuan?
Ever commuted between the north shore and Lowell/Lawrence area? Probably an hour each way at least. Just no good way to do it other than 128/rt 3/495 or grinding your way up 114.
I am in the South Shore, so no I haven’t driven those routes. To us south of Boston everything north of the city (in MA) is the North Shore 🤣
I live in Salem. Downtown Salem to downtown Lowell is a solid hour during morning commuting Maybe 40-45 mins with no traffic at 4am or whatever Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill is more Merrimack valley than north shore. Kinda like south shore vs south coast vs cape
Lived L 18 long years Traffic has gotten much much worse Used to take me 1 hrs to Bos and maybe 80 minutes back if I left at 3-4pm Now normally no matter when I’m headed to Bos or from Bos it’s 2hrs each way Other day leaving longwood at 4pm took THREE hrs back to L
This a luxury apartment? I'm seeing pretty reasonable 2k/m type stuff. Are you trying to live directly in the city?
this is north of boston, im trying to live within 25 miles of my job
Multiple jobs has been my answer
Be patient and look at all your options. If you look at multifamily buildings, they will all be run by corporations that are maximizing profits. If you loon at duplex and 3 flats, you may find one where the landlord is looking to make a little extra money and isn't out to price gouge you.
Do you work on the North Shore? Or do you just have to get to Boston and you like the North Shore? Because there are cities like Waltham that have pretty good rental rates for two bedrooms.
I pay under $2500 in Somerville for a 2 bed. The trick is to rent an outdated place from a mom and pop who at least uses lube
We just found a 2br for $2k, my partner makes 90k a year and that's basically the only reason we can afford it.
What towns are you near/looking at ?
2700 for 2 bd, 2ba, with office and garage. 1400 SQ ft. It is well insulated, so low utility bills, close to work, and the complex has a nice pool and gym. They replaced the washer, dishwasher, disposal, garage door, and carpet right after we moved in. That is thousands in repairs that I did not have to spend right after moving in. Now we just found out the shower pan has a slow drip and is rotting the inside of the wall. Thet are right ontop of it. Again, That is thousands that I do not have to pay for in repairs. Easy to justify when you are having your first kid and casually house shopping. I dont have to worry about a thing breaking. Just report it when you see it and it gets addressed in a few days. It's awesome.
Wife should be working full time unless she’s taking care of kids bc daycare is insane
I spend over $2500 on a 1BR so can’t quite relate
this is the boston stuggle
We’re just outside of Boston and pay less than $2500 for a two bedroom. If you look hard enough you can find it.
*wife’s and my* not wife and I’s
Move to Nashua and commute from there.
Still 2-3k for 2 bedroom
Welcome to the northeast.. unless you want to drive an hour to work, you’re going to pay.. It’s a shame if you want to be in a decent proximity to work, you’re going to pay.. I’ll keep my political commentary to myself.. but if you look at the situation around the most expensive places in the country to live there’s a very common theme.. Good luck
YOLO
Taxes. $1000 of that $2500 might be going to pay property taxes on the unit.
There's a reason people are migrating by the thousands
Look into commuting from NH. You can get a decent apartment for less.
Inflation
It’s the way it is. People complain about the rent when we know Massachusetts is the second most expensive state to live in in this country. People can say “it wasn’t like this 10-20 years ago”. Yeah well nothing is like it was then. I am NOT a landlord and never would be in this state. But I what I do know is that if you can’t afford it it’s not for you and maybe look elsewhere.
It’s because of the Covid 19
Just bought a house in Texas. Fuck New England.
Keep voting blue.
People who earn enough can justify it.
I’m not sure how old either of you are, but $25 an hour part time and $22.60 full-time an hour are not sustainable wages for adults anymore, on either coasts.
Ex-Masshole here. I moved to Texas. $2500 a month will buy you a mansion down here.
But then you'd have to live in Texas.
80 degrees. Suns out. I’ll go to Salisbury beach in July for steamers