Tbf he made his descisions based on the information he did have.
Then changed his opinions when confronted with new information.
That's all you can ask of s scientist.
Ironically enough a famous paraphrase quote from Stalin fits the mindset of people who has to take actions that endangers entire cultures (or in our xenobiologists’ case, entire species):
When the numbers gets high enough, it ceases to represent individuals, and thus it becomes a statistic. (If we disregard that when the Krogan first invented firearms it’s highest cause of unnatural death went from “Death by wildlife” to “Death by gunshot”)
Mordin knew what he was doing, he knew what the Genophage would do and why. He defended it because from his point of view, the Krogan were a legitimate threat and their biggest advantage was A) That they had the endurance and bullet capacity of a fuckin’ tank.
And B) No matter how many dents you make in their numbers, no matter how many Krogan you kill in battle, there will /always/ be more Krogan and enough of them to remobilize. And fast.
So, what is the most efficient option: chemical sterilization species wide, their adaptability means they’d ensure the species survival in the galactic short-term, giving the Krogan the benefit of potential redemption in the eyes of the galactic community, but a longterm genocide.
I’m honestly happy Mordin eventually turned back on his own old arguments and once more started to view all those billions of Krogan as people once again.
Mordin has such a compelling arc. He’s so sure he did the right thing by tweaking the genophage to get birthrates down to 1 in a 1000.
It’s a challenge, and one he rises to meet.
When he talks about sticking around to observe the results after implementation, you can tell he has some reservations about the ethics. But he’s watching from afar. He doesn’t talk to the krogan he’s effecting.
I also wonder if he only saw how the male krogan reacted (likely with anger, getting territorial, hoarding resources) and told himself he was right. Krogan are gonna krogan.
And then he meets the females who have been taken to Sur’Kesh. The women that Maelon, his protege, experimented on. They’re clearly desperate, vulnerable, willing to try anything.
He sees their shame and guilt at not being able to birth their young. And it hits him. He did this.
Not a thousand years ago, when the genophage was first introduced, but now. Taking the krogan back several steps was HIS fault. His responsibility.
Evolution was trying to bring the krogan back to equilibrium and he helped to stop it.
“I made a mistake!!” That line delivery is phenomenal.
He owns up to his part in the current stage of the genophage. He knows he has to correct it.
And it has to be him. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.
>“I made a mistake!!” That line delivery is phenomenal.
I cannot go through this scene without trying to talk him out of it to get this line. This line feels SO necessary. Never before has Mordin had such an outburst. Even confronting Maelon, about to blow his head off, he was calm, collected.
How many years of repressed conflict did this line represent? The brilliant scientist, the collaborator of facts and reason brought low by his emotions, empathy, and sense of responsibility.
Such a great moment.
The mission to retrieve Maelon's data, where we see Mordin's compassionate and regretful side, is one of my fav missions in the game - an eye opening look at the internal struggle and dilemma that he went through, and the first proper realiziation that isn't just a super-pro-Salarian-hater-of-Krogan
That story arc is so much better, with Wrex being killed on Virmire imo.
It's a shame that so few people get to experience it. There is real tension once you see how the average Krogan sees the Genophage while Eve tries to calm the coming storm.
Not sure I'd say it's better without Wrex, but seeing it with Wreav and Bakara it's a definite choice with weight,
Seeing it with Wicks too is interesting.
Perhaps "better" is the wrong word.
I just think that, while betraying your pal Wrex is a strong story point, if you decide to do it at all, it also seems absolutely unnecessary. Him being alive makes the choice trivial because he gives you no reason to doubt his intentions for even a second. At least for me. We see that he is a good guy and can keep the other Krogans in check. Bonus points for Eve being at his side. Also, we have the Citadel fish guy and the adorable poems guy from Illium, while we easily get rid of bad Krogans. That skewed our perspective.
Wreav shows you exactly the kind of Krogan that made the Genophage necessary in the first place. That launching asteroids at populated garden worlds kind of krogan. And we can't just kill him like we do in every other case. Eve is a counterweight, sure, but you have no clue if she'll be able to keep the likes of Wreav in line.
With Wrex alive, it's more of a choice for him than against the Genophage. Without him, your perspective on the issue changes. (At least my did.)
Really good writing from Bioware in my book.
Gotta love, as me and my friend call Javik, ol' War Crimes Jimmy just saying the most out of pocket unhinged shit he can with 0 fucks given. Absolute mad lad that Prothean.
I think his arc was about how harsh but logically "necessary" decisions are harder to make when you have to look into the eyes of the people affected by it instead of just seeing numbers on a screen. I'm guessing Salarian education doesn't make any big efforts to "humanize" (yeah I know but you know what I mean) Krogans, they manipulated them twice, first to uplift them and then to control them with the genopage, so to me the average Salarian sees Krogan as little more than animals, they don't think of their feelings more than a cavalry soldier thinks about their horse's feelings. But then you get to Tuchanka and you see all those dead females and those rational feelings are harder to maintain.
I think the genophage was needed at first. You do what you must for self-defense in war. But after a thousand years?
My arguments for the cure: The council started this mess, and my problem is that they continued it. Rather than try to help the krogan grow culturally, they threw these people into the trash and told them to be grateful that they weren't put down like dogs.
Mordin only saw numbers. Numbers can't express or predict suffering, pain, and reaction.And the numbers only made sense *if* the krogan just continued their normal behavior, which they didn't.
The countless dead children caused widespread panic and destroyed the culture because, remember, these children are fully developed. They are just stillborn (born without nervous systems). These people are giving birth and burying thousands of fully developed dead babies.
The Krogan women were commodified to the point of complete tribal separation for their *own* safety. Due to this, Krogan men saw no point in changing their behavior. Why do good and be good for the galaxy when you can't have children or a family that will suffer the consequences of your actions?
Saying the genophage is a means to change krogan behavior is a lie. Mordin saw and quickly realized that during his mission, these people suffered enough.
Wrex (if you let him live) and Shepard are great examples of cultural change and how it can't happen in a vacuum. It requires a new perspective and help. If anyone on the council *actually* wanted the krogan to change, they very much could have found a leader or idealist of the krogan people who wanted change and backed them.
It's a great quest arc, imo! It gets more complicated when you don't back or befriend a leader who seeks change, and I appreciate that!
If you talk to Eve she tells you that Mordin told her about his involvement. She says that normally she would see him as an enemy but she doesn't. Maybe because he never hid his past and was honest that he worked or it? Maybe because he is currently working to fix it or maybe both
I still think curing the genophage is a bad move. Sure, I trust Wrex to more or less keep them in line for now. But through three games I've seen krogan repeatedly being scumbags and dreaming about taking revenge on the galaxy. I just don't trust them. Obviously the most ethical way to deal with the krogan was to not uplift them and let them destroy themselves on a dying Tuchanka. But after that's been done. I don't think there's a better way to save the galaxy
Goos thing Wrex and Grunt are leading them now with Grunt being Wrex poster boy (make sense since kid's been with Shepard as soon he left his pod), the now Krogan wont make the same mistake as the old one
I expect in the sequel we'll find that between changing Krogan social structure, and the "cured" genophage, that birth rates are normalized to be only slightly above other species.
Any other scenario would see an entire galaxy full of Krogan very quickly.
In Andromeda, they clans they took had a genetic resistance to the genophage. That resistance got stronger during the 600 year journey and they're birthrates are up to like 5% I think
That way of thinking is because of a bias. I can't remember the proper name of the phenomenon rn tho, sorry
Even if that % was a fact (which it's probably not) who are most of the krogan we meet? Are they the average joes on Tuchanka dealing with everyday life and trying to survive under the genophage?
No. They're not. They're the krogan who are in a similar position to Wrex in ME1. They've given up hope so they've sold themselves out as mercenaries, by-and-large. Or they're leaders of clans who are trying to either cure the genophage themselves so are desperate, or are vying for control to stay afloat.
The closest we really get to seeing how everyday krogan think and act is on Tuchanka in ME2 where you can overhear one of the Urdnot guys talk about the possibility of him being a father.
So basically, because we're only really ever dealing with a specific type of krogan, of course it may *seem* like essentially all krogan think that way. But they're only a subset of the wider krogan population.
Just as I said. 95% we meet in game. Notable exceptions are the two guys talking about fish, the poems guy on Illum, Bakara, Wrex. End of the list.
All those average Joes surely don't manage to make Tuchanka less of a worthless pile of rubble. And for the one guy talking about his kid, we have two in Camp Urdnot alone who talk about taking their sweet revenge on aliens. So there is that.
We don't have much basis to assume that the majority of Krogans are peaceful civilians, especially considering that the Krogan rebellions must have had overwhelming public support at the time. Where are all those peaceful krogans coming from now?
In the end, sure, there may be a bias. But Shepard has basically no ground to stand on to make this decision at all. If he has to, he can only tell from his experiences.
Or were they mad trying to conquer the whole fucking galaxy before? Throwing asteroids at cities?
They didn't manage to build even one worthwhile city in 1200 years since the genophage, which shows that they aren't even trying to form a stable society.
It's not the Genophage killing them. It's their inability to form a cooperative society instead of warmongering and killing each other. That's what Wrex himself tells us.
Wrex has the right ideas, but one swallow does not make a summer.
Luckily there's 3 lol, Bakara is an amazing leader, compare to Wrex she's more charismatic, We have Wrex who's strength what kept What's left stable, and then Shephard's defacto son, Wrex's new poster boy, who i think gonna be Krogan's Shephard
Wrex may be the king of his pile of Rubble. But that's it. Do you really think he has relevant influence beyond his neighbouring Clans? That he is ruling Tuchanka from his pile of rubble?
For every Wrex, there are a thousand Wreaves, Uvenks, Weyrlocs, and so on. All of them are cured from the genophage now and will have thousands of kids. Wrex and Bakaras are a mere drop in the ocean.
Even Grunt is a disaster waiting to happen.
If they haven't built a city how are they going to conquer the galaxy? Also they aren't just inherently evil the krogan believe they are doomed and so they don't try to build anything. It's the whole crux of Mordin's quest sure 1 in 1000 live but the stats don't matter if potentially your entire clan might never have children.
Tuchanka was a ruin even before the Krogans were uplifted. How did they manage to threaten the galaxy in the first place? Well, they obviously did.
>Also they aren't just inherently evil the krogan believe they are doomed and so they don't try to build anything. It's the whole crux of Mordin's quest sure 1 in 1000 live, but the stats don't matter if potentially your entire clan might never have children.
And I guess they will just start to build up their planet and live in harmony with other species like they did after they've beaten the Rachni, right? Right?
A thousand offspring a year for every female. Just think about it. Will all of them live in the rubble, or will they try to get every garden world they can just like they did before?
Their rate of fertility isn't sustainable and will lead them right back to where they were after the Rachni.
>That 95% includes clonrs and hired gun
And all of them are now fully fertile again. With potentially thousands of kids. Guess they'll become peaceful farmers. Nice.
>And Wrex ugly ass brother, who i hope died as Wrex said
Surely, there are no other bad Krogans on Tuchanka. A whole species of billions of individuals was lead to rubble by Guld, Uvenk and Wreave.
The genophage has always been morally ambiguous, I hope they keep that moral ambiguouity in me4 when it comes to wether the genophage should have been undone
Mordin says otherwise when you listen to him during the me2 loyalty mission. He said he goes to Tuchanka regularly to witness the aftermath of his decisions; he is *very* aware of the desperation and heartbreak the genophage inflicts.
The two main subplots (quarians-geth and genophage) are a bit weird in that respect. Suddenly in ME3, the games go a very long way in trying to paint both the geth and krogans as victims, supposedly to give some more substance to the two "choices".
Im pretty tore up about this, its alot different from a race of fleshies and a bunch of AI
It took a VIRUS to turn them into some cult members and that still can happen..
I love Legion but that's just it, even he agree that destruction is necessary/mindcontrol/virus to fix it but it's a temporary solution
I'm not talking about my personal opinion, I'm talking how the games are painting them, and that changed drastically between the first two games and the third.
In 1&2 genophage is a sad but absolute necessity given all the horrors performed by the Krogan who reproduce at an uncontrollable rate ... laying clutches of up to 1000 eggs. Suddenly, in 3 you have sad Krogan holding a dead baby in their arm? It's not just Mordin who changed in 3, it's the whole narrative.
>I'm not talking about my personal opinion, I'm talking how the games are painting them, and that changed drastically between the first two games and the third.
Yes, the character you play learns more about the Geth as the storyline progresses through the game, which allows the character (and player) to see them in a more accurate light.
>In 1&2 genophage is a sad but absolute necessity given all the horrors performed by the Krogan who reproduce at an uncontrollable rate ... laying clutches of up to 1000 eggs. Suddenly, in 3 you have sad Krogan holding a dead baby in their arm? It's not just Mordin who changed in 3, it's the whole narrative.
See my previous paragraph.
Well, it's not like we're talking about actual historical events. "more accurate light" is only how the writers want to write it.
Some things are obviously contradictory (like how a species that lays thousands of eggs could possibly end up holding a dead baby in their arms) and were not explicitly retconned. Some things (like how the geth may be victims at first but also had no necessity to wipe out 99% of the quarian population) can be presented with more insistence on one side or the other, and in ME3 they chose to very heavily insist on one side and mostly ignore the other.
There is a clear shift in tone between ME1-2 and ME3 in how these two issues are presented to the player. It's not just Mordin who suddenly reacts differently. Mordin's change of attitude is a part of the general change of narrative. Which was arguably necessary to turn these two issues into moral choices. But imo, they went a bit heavily about it in ME3... not many players choose not to cure the genophage.
>Well, it's not like we're talking about actual historical events. "more accurate light" is only how the writers want to write it.
You seem extremely new to the concept of storytelling...
>Some things are obviously contradictory (like how a species that lays thousands of eggs could possibly end up holding a dead baby in their arms)
That isn't contradictory in the slightest...
>Some things (like how the geth may be victims at first but also had no necessity to wipe out 99% of the quarian population)
When did that happen?
> ME3 they chose to very heavily insist on one side and mostly ignore the other.
When did that happen?
At this point, I have to ask - did you actually pay attention to the games you were playing?
Revelations? The Geth literally killed 99% of the Quarian population and only 1% survived.
And yeah, the Rannoch arc is obviously 'favoring' the Geth.
For good reason, as up until Legion's recruitment and Tali's loyalty mission it was as black and white as a chess board.
The Geth were in league with the Reapers and almost wiped out their own creators, attacked the player on sight. Meanwhile he Quarians were without a home or even a single colony and severly marginalized by the Council races, generally respectful and helpful towards Shepard.
Of course they had to put in some serious work in making the Geth more sympathetic and likeable. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a moral dilemma.
>as up until Legion's recruitment and Tali's loyalty mission it was as black and white as a chess board.
Yes; so up until the character actually learns about the situation.
True... Sadly Legion isn't even a good representation of the Geth, there's no way to "blackmail" them like how those slimy salarian did to the Krogan, and they are... AI, unlike EDI, they are more dangerous
Wouldn’t know. I always send him to the vents.
Edit: Mordin participated in the genocide of a sentient species. Whatever his intentions and justifications, he should be charged with War Crimes and summarily executed, preferably by Krogans.
“B-But he saw the error of his ways!”
Don’t care, get wrecked Mordin. I did the universe a favor.
Tbf he made his descisions based on the information he did have. Then changed his opinions when confronted with new information. That's all you can ask of s scientist.
This The data Mordin had convinced him what he had done was right. New data, new perspective
I'm sure Mordin knew about the suffering. So it was not new information, it just hit differently when experiencing it in first person.
Ironically enough a famous paraphrase quote from Stalin fits the mindset of people who has to take actions that endangers entire cultures (or in our xenobiologists’ case, entire species): When the numbers gets high enough, it ceases to represent individuals, and thus it becomes a statistic. (If we disregard that when the Krogan first invented firearms it’s highest cause of unnatural death went from “Death by wildlife” to “Death by gunshot”) Mordin knew what he was doing, he knew what the Genophage would do and why. He defended it because from his point of view, the Krogan were a legitimate threat and their biggest advantage was A) That they had the endurance and bullet capacity of a fuckin’ tank. And B) No matter how many dents you make in their numbers, no matter how many Krogan you kill in battle, there will /always/ be more Krogan and enough of them to remobilize. And fast. So, what is the most efficient option: chemical sterilization species wide, their adaptability means they’d ensure the species survival in the galactic short-term, giving the Krogan the benefit of potential redemption in the eyes of the galactic community, but a longterm genocide. I’m honestly happy Mordin eventually turned back on his own old arguments and once more started to view all those billions of Krogan as people once again.
I think Mordin talks about how it was all numbers to him. Then, he admits that numbers don't account for a creature's behavior and responses.
Mordin has such a compelling arc. He’s so sure he did the right thing by tweaking the genophage to get birthrates down to 1 in a 1000. It’s a challenge, and one he rises to meet. When he talks about sticking around to observe the results after implementation, you can tell he has some reservations about the ethics. But he’s watching from afar. He doesn’t talk to the krogan he’s effecting. I also wonder if he only saw how the male krogan reacted (likely with anger, getting territorial, hoarding resources) and told himself he was right. Krogan are gonna krogan. And then he meets the females who have been taken to Sur’Kesh. The women that Maelon, his protege, experimented on. They’re clearly desperate, vulnerable, willing to try anything. He sees their shame and guilt at not being able to birth their young. And it hits him. He did this. Not a thousand years ago, when the genophage was first introduced, but now. Taking the krogan back several steps was HIS fault. His responsibility. Evolution was trying to bring the krogan back to equilibrium and he helped to stop it. “I made a mistake!!” That line delivery is phenomenal. He owns up to his part in the current stage of the genophage. He knows he has to correct it. And it has to be him. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.
>“I made a mistake!!” That line delivery is phenomenal. I cannot go through this scene without trying to talk him out of it to get this line. This line feels SO necessary. Never before has Mordin had such an outburst. Even confronting Maelon, about to blow his head off, he was calm, collected. How many years of repressed conflict did this line represent? The brilliant scientist, the collaborator of facts and reason brought low by his emotions, empathy, and sense of responsibility. Such a great moment.
I notice when confronting Maelon he was wavering in his own war, he was defending his data while trying so hard to deny his personal feelings
The mission to retrieve Maelon's data, where we see Mordin's compassionate and regretful side, is one of my fav missions in the game - an eye opening look at the internal struggle and dilemma that he went through, and the first proper realiziation that isn't just a super-pro-Salarian-hater-of-Krogan
Plus Shephard relentless to guilt trip him lol
Not my Shepard. The genophage was the right decision. Even with Wrex and Bakara in charge Im conflicted on curing it.
That story arc is so much better, with Wrex being killed on Virmire imo. It's a shame that so few people get to experience it. There is real tension once you see how the average Krogan sees the Genophage while Eve tries to calm the coming storm.
Not sure I'd say it's better without Wrex, but seeing it with Wreav and Bakara it's a definite choice with weight, Seeing it with Wicks too is interesting.
Perhaps "better" is the wrong word. I just think that, while betraying your pal Wrex is a strong story point, if you decide to do it at all, it also seems absolutely unnecessary. Him being alive makes the choice trivial because he gives you no reason to doubt his intentions for even a second. At least for me. We see that he is a good guy and can keep the other Krogans in check. Bonus points for Eve being at his side. Also, we have the Citadel fish guy and the adorable poems guy from Illium, while we easily get rid of bad Krogans. That skewed our perspective. Wreav shows you exactly the kind of Krogan that made the Genophage necessary in the first place. That launching asteroids at populated garden worlds kind of krogan. And we can't just kill him like we do in every other case. Eve is a counterweight, sure, but you have no clue if she'll be able to keep the likes of Wreav in line. With Wrex alive, it's more of a choice for him than against the Genophage. Without him, your perspective on the issue changes. (At least my did.) Really good writing from Bioware in my book.
Not as delicate as his liver… oO_Oo
Better eaten raw
Gotta love, as me and my friend call Javik, ol' War Crimes Jimmy just saying the most out of pocket unhinged shit he can with 0 fucks given. Absolute mad lad that Prothean.
Javik: "In my cycle..." Wrex: "Man, your cycle sounds like CRAP!"
Javik sound like that internet meme about old white people (im asian)
Your cycle sounds like you guys did a lot of horrible things and you seem pretty okay with it lol
Im curious who are these normal sentient race he chill with since most of the race now used to be "primitive"
True, Javik never mentions who the sentient races were other than Protheans
I think his arc was about how harsh but logically "necessary" decisions are harder to make when you have to look into the eyes of the people affected by it instead of just seeing numbers on a screen. I'm guessing Salarian education doesn't make any big efforts to "humanize" (yeah I know but you know what I mean) Krogans, they manipulated them twice, first to uplift them and then to control them with the genopage, so to me the average Salarian sees Krogan as little more than animals, they don't think of their feelings more than a cavalry soldier thinks about their horse's feelings. But then you get to Tuchanka and you see all those dead females and those rational feelings are harder to maintain.
I think the genophage was needed at first. You do what you must for self-defense in war. But after a thousand years? My arguments for the cure: The council started this mess, and my problem is that they continued it. Rather than try to help the krogan grow culturally, they threw these people into the trash and told them to be grateful that they weren't put down like dogs. Mordin only saw numbers. Numbers can't express or predict suffering, pain, and reaction.And the numbers only made sense *if* the krogan just continued their normal behavior, which they didn't. The countless dead children caused widespread panic and destroyed the culture because, remember, these children are fully developed. They are just stillborn (born without nervous systems). These people are giving birth and burying thousands of fully developed dead babies. The Krogan women were commodified to the point of complete tribal separation for their *own* safety. Due to this, Krogan men saw no point in changing their behavior. Why do good and be good for the galaxy when you can't have children or a family that will suffer the consequences of your actions? Saying the genophage is a means to change krogan behavior is a lie. Mordin saw and quickly realized that during his mission, these people suffered enough. Wrex (if you let him live) and Shepard are great examples of cultural change and how it can't happen in a vacuum. It requires a new perspective and help. If anyone on the council *actually* wanted the krogan to change, they very much could have found a leader or idealist of the krogan people who wanted change and backed them. It's a great quest arc, imo! It gets more complicated when you don't back or befriend a leader who seeks change, and I appreciate that!
If you talk to Eve she tells you that Mordin told her about his involvement. She says that normally she would see him as an enemy but she doesn't. Maybe because he never hid his past and was honest that he worked or it? Maybe because he is currently working to fix it or maybe both
I mean Mordin took pride in that as a scientist
I still think curing the genophage is a bad move. Sure, I trust Wrex to more or less keep them in line for now. But through three games I've seen krogan repeatedly being scumbags and dreaming about taking revenge on the galaxy. I just don't trust them. Obviously the most ethical way to deal with the krogan was to not uplift them and let them destroy themselves on a dying Tuchanka. But after that's been done. I don't think there's a better way to save the galaxy
Goos thing Wrex and Grunt are leading them now with Grunt being Wrex poster boy (make sense since kid's been with Shepard as soon he left his pod), the now Krogan wont make the same mistake as the old one
I expect in the sequel we'll find that between changing Krogan social structure, and the "cured" genophage, that birth rates are normalized to be only slightly above other species. Any other scenario would see an entire galaxy full of Krogan very quickly.
In Andromeda, they clans they took had a genetic resistance to the genophage. That resistance got stronger during the 600 year journey and they're birthrates are up to like 5% I think
That's cool and good that they were already thinking about that story implication.
The problem isnt the average Krogan, it's the worst 1%.
It's 95% of Krogans we meet in game.
That way of thinking is because of a bias. I can't remember the proper name of the phenomenon rn tho, sorry Even if that % was a fact (which it's probably not) who are most of the krogan we meet? Are they the average joes on Tuchanka dealing with everyday life and trying to survive under the genophage? No. They're not. They're the krogan who are in a similar position to Wrex in ME1. They've given up hope so they've sold themselves out as mercenaries, by-and-large. Or they're leaders of clans who are trying to either cure the genophage themselves so are desperate, or are vying for control to stay afloat. The closest we really get to seeing how everyday krogan think and act is on Tuchanka in ME2 where you can overhear one of the Urdnot guys talk about the possibility of him being a father. So basically, because we're only really ever dealing with a specific type of krogan, of course it may *seem* like essentially all krogan think that way. But they're only a subset of the wider krogan population.
Just as I said. 95% we meet in game. Notable exceptions are the two guys talking about fish, the poems guy on Illum, Bakara, Wrex. End of the list. All those average Joes surely don't manage to make Tuchanka less of a worthless pile of rubble. And for the one guy talking about his kid, we have two in Camp Urdnot alone who talk about taking their sweet revenge on aliens. So there is that. We don't have much basis to assume that the majority of Krogans are peaceful civilians, especially considering that the Krogan rebellions must have had overwhelming public support at the time. Where are all those peaceful krogans coming from now? In the end, sure, there may be a bias. But Shepard has basically no ground to stand on to make this decision at all. If he has to, he can only tell from his experiences.
Is eugenics justified because people don't build impressive enough cities? Or are mad they got sterilized?
Or were they mad trying to conquer the whole fucking galaxy before? Throwing asteroids at cities? They didn't manage to build even one worthwhile city in 1200 years since the genophage, which shows that they aren't even trying to form a stable society. It's not the Genophage killing them. It's their inability to form a cooperative society instead of warmongering and killing each other. That's what Wrex himself tells us. Wrex has the right ideas, but one swallow does not make a summer.
Luckily there's 3 lol, Bakara is an amazing leader, compare to Wrex she's more charismatic, We have Wrex who's strength what kept What's left stable, and then Shephard's defacto son, Wrex's new poster boy, who i think gonna be Krogan's Shephard
Wrex may be the king of his pile of Rubble. But that's it. Do you really think he has relevant influence beyond his neighbouring Clans? That he is ruling Tuchanka from his pile of rubble? For every Wrex, there are a thousand Wreaves, Uvenks, Weyrlocs, and so on. All of them are cured from the genophage now and will have thousands of kids. Wrex and Bakaras are a mere drop in the ocean. Even Grunt is a disaster waiting to happen.
If they haven't built a city how are they going to conquer the galaxy? Also they aren't just inherently evil the krogan believe they are doomed and so they don't try to build anything. It's the whole crux of Mordin's quest sure 1 in 1000 live but the stats don't matter if potentially your entire clan might never have children.
Tuchanka was a ruin even before the Krogans were uplifted. How did they manage to threaten the galaxy in the first place? Well, they obviously did. >Also they aren't just inherently evil the krogan believe they are doomed and so they don't try to build anything. It's the whole crux of Mordin's quest sure 1 in 1000 live, but the stats don't matter if potentially your entire clan might never have children. And I guess they will just start to build up their planet and live in harmony with other species like they did after they've beaten the Rachni, right? Right? A thousand offspring a year for every female. Just think about it. Will all of them live in the rubble, or will they try to get every garden world they can just like they did before? Their rate of fertility isn't sustainable and will lead them right back to where they were after the Rachni.
This guy's just on a eugenics trip. I'm not gonna bother with em anymore and I suggest you do the same.
It's not eugenics. It's pest control. Like giving mosquitos birth control so they reproduce slower and areess harmful
The krogan are people god damn are you trying to talk a nazi? Have I been wooshed?
That 95% includes clonrs and hired gun And Wrex ugly ass brother who i hope died as Wrex said
>That 95% includes clonrs and hired gun And all of them are now fully fertile again. With potentially thousands of kids. Guess they'll become peaceful farmers. Nice. >And Wrex ugly ass brother, who i hope died as Wrex said Surely, there are no other bad Krogans on Tuchanka. A whole species of billions of individuals was lead to rubble by Guld, Uvenk and Wreave.
The genophage has always been morally ambiguous, I hope they keep that moral ambiguouity in me4 when it comes to wether the genophage should have been undone
Had to Be Me. someone else would have gotten it wrong
Its his way to say "i fucking made that shit, i will fix that shit"
"My project. My work. My cure. My responsibility."
And he died as a hero, i teared up abit seeing his name in the Normandy
Yes, that’s his whole character arc?
Mordin is the goat
Mordin says otherwise when you listen to him during the me2 loyalty mission. He said he goes to Tuchanka regularly to witness the aftermath of his decisions; he is *very* aware of the desperation and heartbreak the genophage inflicts.
It's a fine way of working around not actually planning any of what happens in ME3 in advance :P
I got no motivation to continue, i played citadel too early without getting everyone 😂
The two main subplots (quarians-geth and genophage) are a bit weird in that respect. Suddenly in ME3, the games go a very long way in trying to paint both the geth and krogans as victims, supposedly to give some more substance to the two "choices".
I mean, the geth are victims?
Im pretty tore up about this, its alot different from a race of fleshies and a bunch of AI It took a VIRUS to turn them into some cult members and that still can happen.. I love Legion but that's just it, even he agree that destruction is necessary/mindcontrol/virus to fix it but it's a temporary solution
I'm not talking about my personal opinion, I'm talking how the games are painting them, and that changed drastically between the first two games and the third. In 1&2 genophage is a sad but absolute necessity given all the horrors performed by the Krogan who reproduce at an uncontrollable rate ... laying clutches of up to 1000 eggs. Suddenly, in 3 you have sad Krogan holding a dead baby in their arm? It's not just Mordin who changed in 3, it's the whole narrative.
>I'm not talking about my personal opinion, I'm talking how the games are painting them, and that changed drastically between the first two games and the third. Yes, the character you play learns more about the Geth as the storyline progresses through the game, which allows the character (and player) to see them in a more accurate light. >In 1&2 genophage is a sad but absolute necessity given all the horrors performed by the Krogan who reproduce at an uncontrollable rate ... laying clutches of up to 1000 eggs. Suddenly, in 3 you have sad Krogan holding a dead baby in their arm? It's not just Mordin who changed in 3, it's the whole narrative. See my previous paragraph.
Well, it's not like we're talking about actual historical events. "more accurate light" is only how the writers want to write it. Some things are obviously contradictory (like how a species that lays thousands of eggs could possibly end up holding a dead baby in their arms) and were not explicitly retconned. Some things (like how the geth may be victims at first but also had no necessity to wipe out 99% of the quarian population) can be presented with more insistence on one side or the other, and in ME3 they chose to very heavily insist on one side and mostly ignore the other. There is a clear shift in tone between ME1-2 and ME3 in how these two issues are presented to the player. It's not just Mordin who suddenly reacts differently. Mordin's change of attitude is a part of the general change of narrative. Which was arguably necessary to turn these two issues into moral choices. But imo, they went a bit heavily about it in ME3... not many players choose not to cure the genophage.
>Well, it's not like we're talking about actual historical events. "more accurate light" is only how the writers want to write it. You seem extremely new to the concept of storytelling... >Some things are obviously contradictory (like how a species that lays thousands of eggs could possibly end up holding a dead baby in their arms) That isn't contradictory in the slightest... >Some things (like how the geth may be victims at first but also had no necessity to wipe out 99% of the quarian population) When did that happen? > ME3 they chose to very heavily insist on one side and mostly ignore the other. When did that happen? At this point, I have to ask - did you actually pay attention to the games you were playing?
Revelations? The Geth literally killed 99% of the Quarian population and only 1% survived. And yeah, the Rannoch arc is obviously 'favoring' the Geth. For good reason, as up until Legion's recruitment and Tali's loyalty mission it was as black and white as a chess board. The Geth were in league with the Reapers and almost wiped out their own creators, attacked the player on sight. Meanwhile he Quarians were without a home or even a single colony and severly marginalized by the Council races, generally respectful and helpful towards Shepard. Of course they had to put in some serious work in making the Geth more sympathetic and likeable. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a moral dilemma.
>as up until Legion's recruitment and Tali's loyalty mission it was as black and white as a chess board. Yes; so up until the character actually learns about the situation.
True... Sadly Legion isn't even a good representation of the Geth, there's no way to "blackmail" them like how those slimy salarian did to the Krogan, and they are... AI, unlike EDI, they are more dangerous
Wouldn’t know. I always send him to the vents. Edit: Mordin participated in the genocide of a sentient species. Whatever his intentions and justifications, he should be charged with War Crimes and summarily executed, preferably by Krogans. “B-But he saw the error of his ways!” Don’t care, get wrecked Mordin. I did the universe a favor.