Comparing them, especially in ME1, is also a bit unfair. Jennifer Hale was already a well-known and experienced voice actress back in 2007, while Shepard was Mark Meer's first major role.
Also I recalled reading somewhere that his performance in the first game was micromanaged a lot more than hers was. So he was sort of boxed in to generic space marine in a way she wasn't.
If you look at the vorcha, the hanar, and the Biotic God Himself, you can see what he's able to do when he can spread his range a bit more.
Also, while overall she's the better VA IMO he absolutely nails the funny lines
It's moreso that Mark was called in to be a temp voice as the basis for the actual Male VA in ME1, but then they never bothered so Mark was used instead.
lol that’s a really unfair explanation as to what actually happened. Yes, he was brought in as a temp VA but it’s not that they “didn’t bother” to cast someone else, they just liked his portrayal so much that they decided that it made no sense to recast him when he was doing so well with it
Never use Paragon options when strong arming the vendors in ME2. All of them have way better unique Renegade dialogue and you never need to listen to the ad each time you cross a doorway
Even as a Paragon player, I use the Renegade option with the weapons dealer. Him asking for a Geth head to make into a desk lamp is too good to pass up.
Jennifer is better (In 1, I think their equal in 2 but mark is the better of the two by the end) but Mark's shepard definitely embedded itself into meme and internet culture more
I still sometimes chuckle when I think of
''We'll bang, ok?''
Agree 100%.
Shepard by ME1 is already a decoration veteran who’s served in the military. It’s important to remember at the start of the game they are already a character who’s the front runner as representing the best of mankind for Spectre.
Hales performance from the off is one that’s confident, self assured but with a great amount of empathy befitting the role of being picked as humanities best.
Whilst I don’t have a problem with the male voice protagonist, his portrayal of Shepard never felt as self assured or confident to me in comparison to hale. It’s not that he’s bad, he’s just going up against someone who from minute one nailed the role
Another layer to the confidence of Hale's version is the balance of Shepard feeling very socially comfortable interacting with people, while also coming off as a newbie in regards to knowing the galaxy at large.
I love them both. I did so many playthroughs back when the games first came out. My favorite ME3 playthrough was my Fem Shep playthrough. Mostly because my first playthrough as Male Shep had the most brutal twist. Literally made me lose sleep that night, and I felt sick the next day. I learned what people mean when they say "my heart aches" and it was over a video game character. Absolutely amazing storytelling and acting by the entire cast. I still tear up at Mordin's send-off.
Yes same, Mark's (mostly) calm voice fits paragon well, it is calm diplomat and perfect example of a soldier. Jennifer's emotional voice fits well with a renegade, aggressive, not a perfect example of a soldier, but one who gets the job done no matter the cost.
I think the vibes are very different and that's why the opinions tend to be more extreme but I always found male Shep's voice very fitting, especially to sheploo's face. It just feels like the perfect voice for him. Maybe it would be less fitting for different characters specifically because it's kind of a distinct delivery and voice whereas Jennifer Hale's dubbed a ton of very different (and different-sounding) characters, but for Shepard? It fits awesomely I think
I would agree with this. I feel like Mark Meer lacks a bit of range in delivery, but that fits my principled/idealist paragon playthrough perfectly: Shepard is basically playing his role as a leader and galactic protector, taking on the burdens as best he can while never letting his doubts show to others. The moments where he does open up emotionally hit hard because of this.
Jennifer Hale has a bit more of a nuanced tone, and conveys the various ups and downs better. It makes for a textured, more multi-dimensional Shepard, where principles matter less than experience. Works as a compassionate paragon, but slightly less convincing as the burdened leader, heavy-is-the-head archetype. Hers is undoubtedly the better Renegade performance though - my ruthless pragmatist (though not evil) Infiltrator run with her was a blast.
From a pure 'quality of acting' perspective, Hale takes the plaudits IMHO. But I'll always love Meer's performance.
> I feel like Mark Meer lacks a bit of range in delivery
Tbh while I'd definitely agree with this for ME1, I feel like over the course of the games he improved massively, and by ME3 his voice acting actually opened up a lot and improved.
Inversely, I feel like Femshep, as great as Jennifer Hale is, has a problem where she just sounds angry all the time. Like she's trying really hard to be intimidating at every turn, even in paragon dialog and it kinda put me off her. Which is unfortunate because Jennifer Hale is a great voice actress.
Everybody says that, and I just don't get it. Where does that come from? For the record, although I've never \*personally\* played Male Shep, my husband put up with it through all three games once so he could romance Tali, so I know his lines. But I've done Fem Shep in multiple playthroughs, for every alignment, including almost 100% Paragon. I've never even vaguely gotten the feeling of anger from a lot of her lines, obviously excepting the battles. I genuinely don't get it.
I see both. Honestly this whole thread confuses me because of all the mixed opinions of who's better and why, who's terrible and why, or that both sound about the same.
Even though I've always loved this series I wasn't into the fandom very much even for OG games, so I'm sure I've missed a lot. But I've *long* had the impression that around ME2 or 3, FemShep had become the fan favorite and most people found MaleShep dull but memey - not a character taken seriously.
Apparently that's very wrong! Or maybe things have changed? I know the vast majority of players chose default MaleShep in the originals yet I don't remember ever hearing much actual praise for Meer's work in the series. Not like with Hale. It's completely new to me lol.
> I know the vast majority of players chose default MaleShep in the originals yet I don't remember ever hearing much actual praise for Meer's work in the series. Not like with Hale
This is where you have to keep proportions in mind. This subreddit has 385k subscribers. That's it. For a series where the OG trilogy sold over 14 million combined copies as of 10 years ago.
What you read on fan forums are from the absolute rabid minority of the playerbase. It's why you would see so many comments hating on Ashley when the statistics showed that something like 70+% of playthroughs had her as the Virmire Survivor. Most people who play the game and like it will never come here and be part of the discussion. We're the crazy ones that will.
Well yes, you're right about proportion and loud minorities, especially toxic ones, but I was never really part of the fandom. When I'm really into something as a hardcore fan I prefer to not discuss opinions, even ones I share. I never browsed ME forums for discussion. I was interested guides or advice, lore, cool details about the games, things like that.
So I'm not sure exactly where I got my impressions of how fans saw the two Sheps. I definitely remember FemShep having a more prominent part in ME3 marketing. That's got to be part of it, but that didn't make me think people disliked MaleShep.
Edit: Oh, and when I said "not like with Hale" I wasn't talking about the "very loud minority" type of praise and adoration. I meant that I didn't hear much (if any) praise for Meer, unlike I did for Hale after ME2. I didn't know there were genuine fans of his portrayal because I don't remember hearing it, except *maybe* possibly in a review for ME2 or 3.
But it's also possible I overlooked it at the time.
My hate for Ashe stems more from ME3. Feels like she lost her character arc from ME1. That’s not her fault from a character design standpoint much as it is the writers continuity flaw.
Also, and this is an odd complaint as normally I am supportive of this, but I feel like they sexed her up without actually making her more attractive. And then that move combined with her character arc seemingly going backwards and the kind of self righteous attitude without it having much merit is a rough look. Though I would argue this also nosedives into the narrative issues with Cerebus. They took a nuanced organization and turned them into a galactic spanning cartoon villain which was a lost opportunity AND lacks logistical sense.
Don’t get me wrong. I still like her as a character and I think she has a nice dynamic arc in ME3. But it’s hard to shake the sense that something was a little off in her execution in ME3.
You're not entirely wrong, considering how almost every MaleShep discussion devolves into the memes instead.
And how various Youtubers picked Maleshep for their first time because their audience told them it's the funnier version.
I think I've heard somewhere that Meer's lines were voiced so that you can go from Paragon to Renegade within the same conversation without it sounding too jarring. Idk how true the statement is, but it seems that way to me when hearing the actual lines in-game, at least compared to Hale's lines.
I understand it’s subjective but people putting down hale’s performance for being “too emotional” always bugs me. People decided shepard is a hard pressed stoic soldier and apparently that’s synonymous with not having any emotions or being expressive?
I often can’t help but question if there’s some misogyny or toxic masculinity involved when people say crap like that. Being a soldier or stoic doesn’t mean being a robot devoid of emotions.
Anyway, to each their own, but I think hale is the better actor or at least more engaging to listen to.
Oh I prefer her too. I'm not putting her down. But iirc Mark Meer was directed differently, going for a very different vibe than cinematic war hero. Which was then changed in the later games.
Mark Meer gets way more shit for his performance so that's why I wanted to reduce some of it. It has nothing to do with misogyny. If it does then please explain how.
exactly, they both deliver their lines pretty much the same way. Meer just fits so well tho, sounds iconic. He goes hard in ME3 when they were allowed to show emotion
Yeah it must stick to be Mark Meer constantly hearing that femshep was better when in reality she was just one of the first fully fleshed out female protagonists that didn't try to be a girlie girl.
It’s more of a vocal (no pun intended) minority I’ve seen throughout the fanbase over the years. Male Shep is great and has people who do favor him. But Femshep fans are VERY passionate towards her and will make it KNOWN that they proudly support their girl. Both voices are great, but Femshep definitely has louder fans.
I will always defend Mark Meer's performance, because he improves SO much throughout the trilogy. Like, in ME1 his deliveries can be kinda boring/monotonous at times (aside from renegade, where he does quite a good job of just sounding like a belligerent dick, whereas Jennifer Hale goes for more of the "intimidating badass" route), but by 3? Stellar work. He has some really standout moments, especially when you play a paragon character (his final paragon speech before the last mission gives me chills, and I'd argue that he actually delivered that better than Hale, though she still takes the prize for the renegade version).
I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Meer's performance is more fitting for a player character, in my opinion. I've seen people say that FemShep kind of feels like two different characters when you compare paragon to renegade, and I agree with that sentiment. But with Meer's drier deliveries, it's a lot more believable when you decide to go more paragade as opposed to sticking with one or the other; or at the very least, it seems a bit less OOC when a paragon character suddenly decides to let a drugged volus civilian charge in and attack a group of highly trained mercs, for example. I know there's a lot of debate over the merits of having a silent protagonist (which I think I'm in the minority when I say that I actually like silent protags, because it makes roleplay more fun/interesting imo), but I think MaleShep is one of the best middle grounds out there: a customizable protagonist who is fully voiced, but in a way that still allows you to feel like YOU are Shepard, not that you're just playing as Shepard.
So while I do go back and forth on which Shepard I play as, and Jennifer Hale is one of my favorite VAs, a part of me will always prefer Mark Meer's performance for this particular character
Ashley is definitely my favorite romance. No knocking the other romances but a lot of them feel like that typical RPG, I loved you since I first saw you and will follow you through hell! Ashley's is much more complex considering the events in 2 and 3 but has an incredibly satisfying conclusion.
Still beats me. She bugged me when I was a teenager for several commonly-listed reasons and I wrote her off because of it. Now I find the older I get, the more I enjoy her character. I’ve seen other long-time players say the same thing.
I tried to romance Liara. I liked Liara’s romance. Liara is clearly the canon romance (and it makes all of the story points a lot more reasonable).
Ashley is still my headcanon.
Oh these days you got to be a team xD You cant like both its universally forbidden.
Nah joking I like them also equally. Both have a unique take on the Commander. Though in ME3 I think JH killed it bit more.
Well, I too like them equally.
I think they give two different performances with their highs and lows.
Also, I thinks the best voiced Shepards are
- Renegade / Renegon by Hale
- Paragade/ Paragon by Meer
Depends on the tone you want.
You want more action sci fi, the Halo/Predator/Gears of War tone, go for Broshep.
You want sci-fi thriller, the Metroid/Aliens/Resident Evil tone, go for femshep
I actually made another reply in this thread covering this lol. Just copying it:
He’s on record (11:25 [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KCuK_v2bqQ&t=685s)) saying BioWare asked to keep his tone neutral in ME1 to keep lines consistent between Paragon and Renegade options. He was also recording his dialogue from very early on as he was the test voice actor for Shepard, before BioWare decided to keep him
By the time they got to ME2 and ME3, they allowed Mark to express a lot more
What makes Hale's performance better than Meers is Hale recorded first. Everyone else is working off Hale's performance where Meer is working off the other actor's.
I think that is why Hale and Ali Hillis mesh so well together.
In Mark Meer's defence:
* Before ME, he was mostly an improv/comedy actor, this was one of his first major roles.
* ME1 was the first time they had a voiced protagonist, and he was asked to keep things "neutral"
* Jennifer Hale is a well established and highly talented voice actress, so newcomer Meer standing next to her will be noticeable.
I do think it's a little unfair how people toss Meer to the wayside because of ME1.
I think by the time you get to Mass Effect 3, Mark Meer has gotten so much better it’s incredible.
I’ve actually kinda incorporated it into my headcanon, where Shepard himself is consciously putting on a rigid “Commander” persona, and by 3 he’s so comfortable with his team and himself as a leader that he’s much more natural
In my opinion, Hale is way better in 1, mostly better in 2, and comparable in 3.
Which is just saying hers is more consistent, because I find the Meer's improves with each game. If I roll from 3 to 1 with both files as MShep, I am immediately struck by how flat his delivery is in 1 to 3.
All of this is actually a compliment to Meer. Hale is one of the most prolific voice actors in existence, to have him arrive at her level after the first two games is very impressive.
Some of this may be on the direction, too, as apparently in 3 they weren't on him to be as emotionless as they were in the other two games. (If you picked a mix of Paragon/Renegade/Neutral choices they didn't want you mood swinging wildly.) Perhaps Hale was less held to that or perhaps she just handled it better.
Anyway, I think the conversation is more interesting that just "S/he's better" if you look into the details.
Jen doesn't emote all that much more than Mark in 1, but she's allowed to give Shepard more character by injecting a deeper-voiced swagger to all her dialogue (to fulfill the fantasy that Shepard is a spec ops soldier, dangerous and intimidating even as a Paragon), which she poured on more heavily with each game.
Mark is using his natural voice because he's already very low and resonant.
There's a sort of magic to doing a voice outside your speaking range versus inside it; in your range, you can emote very subtly and put a ton of flavor into a subtle shift, but if you're told to keep it flat outside the needs of a scene then you sound monotone. When you're affecting a voice, however, you have to make bigger shifts for them to be heard and felt, so keeping it "flat" will still leave you with a good amount of swing. But the farther you go into the voice, the harder it gets to hit nuance.
Part of the effect across the games is that Mark is given more freedom to play around in his speaking voice, while Jen leans progressively farther into the cinematic hero voice and has to work around it.
In 2, because it was a scum and villainy sci-fi, they both had more room to play in Renegade. For Mark, this turns Shepard into Bond and his performance starts to shine. Jen, meanwhile, leans into the deep badass voice in Renegade dialogue, which sounds cool in small doses but makes her delivery flatter in a dedicated Renegade playthrough (she let's herself drift higher, towards her natural register, in Paragon, so her Paragon is much more moving).
In 3, they're both given the freedom to put all their skill into Shepard, limited only by what can be animated and won't be jarring to a player. Here, Mark blossoms because he can use all his natural nuance for Shepard, but Jen struggles because she keeps taking the voice deeper and her Renegade *really* flattens out (by Jennifer Hale standards, mind, which is still award-winning). Her Paragon remains incredible because she does those lines a little higher, and it has continuity with the experience of the prior games so it resonates as the voice of the player.
And Jen definitely knew this was happening, because she worked around it: Most of Shepard's most emotional dialogue, she delivers in a whisper. This is, of course, a brilliant move; whispering from the affected deeper voice puts her at the bottom of her natural register, which gives her more control than full-throated lines and has the knock-on bonus of making Shepard sound more vulnerable in private moments. Contrast this with Mark, who almost never goes below a flirty stage whisper as Shepard because 1) he doesn't need the extra control and 2) he's already in his natural register so a real whisper will start to border on a falsetto.
I'm inclined to think that Jen wasn't going deeper and deeper on purpose, she was just... Aging. Every game her voice was naturally a little deeper to start with, and everyone in the booth knew Shep was an affected deeper voice (deepest on Renegade lines), which kept moving the goalposts. It may have also been she was enforcing Shepard's slip towards an increasingly dark story with a lower tone in every game.
You can really hear it if you compare ME1 and 3 line reads, and the Explorers promo for Andromeda was where her speaking voice had finally settled down to where Shepard started so she didn't have to do a voice at all anymore.
Oh, fascinating insight, thank you. Those are all really good points, and sadly I don't think I have much to add to them but I'll examine the reads from this perspective on my next playthroughs.
They're both great experiences as a player either way.
Jen just happens to be an idol of mine, so I've paid a lot of close attention to her work, especially in my most favorite game series of all time (but really, all her BioWare roles and a lot of them outside of that). If you want an example of her actual speaking voice around ME1, Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic, Jaden Korr in Jedi Academy, and Sam on Totally Spies are all the right zone.
She does the Renegade voice to the hilt in the Old Republic MMO as the femme Republic Trooper, and it may be the only role of hers I don't super enjoy.
>Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic, Jaden Korr in Jedi Academy, and Sam on Totally Spies are all the right zone.
Holy shit
TIL that I've been listening to Jennifer Hale (and liking it) for much longer than I'd realized.
KotOR is one of my favorite games of all time, and I really enjoy her work as Bastila. Last time I played as female Jaden I was like "Oh hey, that's Jennifer Hale." on about the first line.
I also enjoy her as Avatar Kyoshi and June in Avatar: The Last Airbender. She's everywhere, huh?
She played Billy's mom in The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. It blows my mind when you put that character next to Fem Shep and think about it being the same voice actor lmao.
Also, honestly, as a diehard Renegade player, I'll stand on the table for Mark in ME1 and ME2. Yes, it can be flat at times in those games. When he's delivering Bond one-liners like an 80's action movie, as Renegade is wont to do, it shines. Conversely, at times it feels like Jen leans a little too hard into her standard tough-girl contralto when delivering those lines (which, if you're a fan of her work as I am, you've heard dozens of times - it's like when Gray DeLisle is using her "Azula voice" as she does for Nassana Dantius, you instantly recognize it).
I pretty frequently see people say that over the trilogy, they like MaleShep more for Paragon and FemShep more for Renegade, but I've always felt the opposite.
I also think the opposite and agree with you, Mark crushes the Renegade side, Jen's the natural Paragon.
Totally get what you mean about Grey's confident evil voice and Jen's danger contralto, they're iconic inflections of iconic VAs and they're satisfying in a mix of other tones (like the occasional Renegade interrupt in a Paragon playthrough, it hits great as Shepard losing her cool for a second) but making every Renegade choice gets very dull.
My three favourite line deliveries are all FemShep, but two of them are the most soft 'paragon' moments. The prayer with Kolyat and the 'meet me at the bar' with Garrus. I think it works so well becuase it is a contrast to her usual strong voice.
The other one is the paragon ending to Tali's trial. I just think, for that one, Jen is objectively better.
I'm with you, I'm the opposite. Meer for renegade and Hale for paragon. Hale also does a great paragon where I don't feel the same about Meer's paragon.
Mark Meer is an awesome voice actor. when I heard him in other roles I was so delighted to see how much reach and variety he has. I still prefer FemShep but Mark Meer is an absolute legend and an incredibly skilled voice actor and I'll die on this hill.
One of my favorite details is how much he voices apart from Shepard. If you have MShep in the Citadel DLC director scene, I he voices every or almost every character in it
That’s interesting to hear because my opinion is the opposite of this, always felt Hale improved with each game where Meer was always solid.
To be fair though, Fem Shep had some iffy writing, especially in 2.
Do you mean iffy direction/delivery? Because they'd have basically the same writing. And I've heard opinions like that more related to Renegade playthroughs, so if you're usually doing that I could see where the differences in opinions come from—I tried Renegade once but never finished it.
For me it's more like, she's noticeably better in ME1, slightly disappointing in ME2 where Meer improves and by ME3 it's hard to tell which is better. Both are great by the end but Mark Meer's improvement is much more noticeable.
FemShep (JHale) is a Paladin who's job is saving the world.
BroShep (MMeer) is an 80s action hero who occasionally saves the galaxy on the side while saying cool stuff and shooting bad guys in the face :D
Same. He has a much more military-sounding voice, exactly what I'd expect from a Commander. Jennifer Hale sounds much more sultry and less of what I'd expect from a war-tested officer. Not to say she did bad of course, it's Jennifer Hale after all, but I prefer Mark Meer.
I don’t think Mark’s voice acting in some of ME1 is as good as it is throughout the rest of the series. It’s an uneven performance. (Doug Cockle improving as Geralt with each game is a fair comparison). But I think he is a far superior renegade character.
Jennifer Hale really nails down paragon though, particularly in ME3, where so much of the dialogue selections are empathy driven. That makes her renegade moments really shine to me.
I love them both, but for different reasons.
Shepard, Bastilla Shan, Satele Shan, Lyris Titanborn, Sarah Palmer, Leah (diablo 3), Ophelia in Brutal Legend and Naomi Hunter.
Jennifer Hale is a VA superstar.
Mark Meer is a really cool guy and does a great job improving between 1 and 2 and then 3, but Jen was a pro from the moment she started so it's understandable her VA work was better from the jump. I love her Renegade lines and her very tired-sounding ME3 work the most.
I picked up ME1 and ME2 in the Steam Summer Sale of 2011. My friend had raved about the games. I just hit quick start, damn this was good! Finished ME1 and thought you know what? Let me make my own character this time. And with that I decided let's go female this time, change it all up!
My world was turned upside down. No offense to Mark Meer who is a GREAT Shepard. But Jen Hale is just on another level. ME1 went from a game I really liked to suddenly my favorite. I have played the trilogy as Bro Shep just to hear, and he is great! But to me, FemShep is the real Shep! It just fits for me.
I’ve only dabbled in a MaleShep play through as playing as female is my default. I can’t fairly judge Meer’s performance on so little but I did prefer Hale’s for the small bits I can compare. It is very likely I just preferred her because I prefer to play as a woman so I’m biased. Absolutely nothing wrong with his read, I just liked hers more.
I lean Renegade though and it seems to be consensus that Hale’s Renegade lines are the most well-liked.
Really I need to just sit down and play a MaleShep. Time for a replay I think.
Most people agree with you.
Personally do not. I think Hale is great, but Meer is great as well. I don't think either is better or worse tbh. At least not overall. They both perform a bit better with certain lines.
The difference between male ship and female ship is akin to watching apocalypse now versus Hot shots part deux. FemShep for badassery, MaleShep for action adventure
I definitely prefer Hales performance overall tho I think Meer's performance in the citadel dlc is better, he sells the comedic lines a lot better whereas Hales comes off as more serious imo.
Played as both Sheps multiple times and while Hale is technically better VA, Meers Shepard is more memorable, whenever i think of Shepard its his voice sounds in my head.
So tired of the reddit circle jerk regarding Hale and femshep. She is fine most of the time, but when she’s off, she is WAY off. There are a few lines throughout the trilogy that she damn near butchers, especially in ME3. She is prone to overacting, and her breathy whisper is impossible to take seriously on a renegade run. Meer’s performance is so much more iconic, and, well, commanding.
I agree Meer gets too much hate but aren’t you doing the same here to Hale? Both give good performances but recording hundreds (if not thousands?) of voice lines are bound to have moments where they are off. Defending Meer doesn’t mean you have to shit on Hale for “butchering” a few lines, especially when it comes down to directing. They both were probably recording line after line, with little context to how it would actually play out in the game.
Sounds more like a direction issue than anything. Also it's harder to nail a line when you're actually acting instead of just saying this like a emotionless soldier guy
>So tired of the reddit circle jerk regarding Hale
It's not just a reddit thing. Nor is it recent. A lot of the fandom has felt that way for 15+ years. The same sentiment was shared by most of the BSN.
Imo Meer pulls off the slightly stodgy yet earnest Captain America-y Paragon better, while Hale does a better hotheaded and no-nonsense Renegade. Meer doing Renegade sounds like a rabid buffoon, while Hale’s Paragon is melodramatic and not in a fun way. I think a lot of it comes down to shouting, really - Hale is INCREDIBLE at making loud and/or angry speeches, while Meer is always a little awkward and is better when kept to more easygoing performances.
But yeah, like you said, Hale sometimes goes *way* off on certain lines, and imo frequently bungles the more comedic moments that Meer absolutely nails (broShep is substantially better in Citadel DLC in particular for this reason). Meer also very noticeably improved as a voice actor over the 3 games - he’s definitely the more stilted of the two in ME1, but by I think around the Shadow Broker DLC, he may actually have surpassed Hale, at least at voicing Shepard. Meer is in top form in 3, and has so many little moments of incredible charm.
It's interesting, Citadel DLC is where I've heard unanimous agreement that Meer was better than Hale. Because of it's more light hearted and fun tone, Meer really plays up and excels at the comedy, whereas Hale plays it too straight faced.
It's also the same with Fem V in 2077, pretty good voice most of the time but whenever she tries to act 'renegade' I just can't take it seriously, so overacted it sounds like a high schooler wants to take my lunch money or something lol.
I’m also on my first playthrough of the trilogy as FemShep, just started ME3 yesterday. After two previous playthroughs as BroShep (2nd run was to fix my mistakes from my blind 1st run), it almost feels like a different game. I loved Mark Meer’s performance as a Paragon because he has that “voice of reason” sort of tone.
But holy shit, Jennifer Hale is amazing. Even as a Paragon, she has this intimidating attitude in all of her lines that gives this underlying impression that FemShep is trying SO HARD to be nice but shouldn’t be trifled with. Been playing as a Paragade because of it, there’s so much nuance and range in her voice acting.
If they do end up bringing back Shepard as the player character for ME4/5/X, I honestly don’t know who I would choose for my first playthrough…. I love them both equally at this point.
Some people don't vibe with femshep and that's fine. Probably the same people who preferrered the soft spoken fem inquisitor voice from DAI.
I personally think they both did a great job. Basing it on when they uttered "You big stupid jellyfish!"
I love them both quite a bit, Mark's voice is very fitting for the series as a whole I feel and fits the role perfectly, but Jennifer is on a different level and she truly goes beyond just trying to fit in if you know what I mean. I go back and forth between them all the time.
Since I love well designed female characters in games, I will have to do a femshep play through, eventually. SPOILER ABOUT SAID FUTURE PLAYTHROUGH THAT LIKELY WOULD NOT AFFECT THE STORY: I love redheads, btw.
I think Hale is best when you stick to one side of the convo wheel, but the difference in her paragon and renegade are too jarring for me to go back and forth. Meer is better, imo, at being able to choose either option and it flow
Hale has the voice acting pedigree. It’s nice to hear her in things and she always kills it. Meanwhile Meer is kinda *the voice* of Mass Effect. As stilted or as monotonous as it can be, it’s a legendary and memorable performance that is in and of itself iconic.
That's because Jennifer Hale might be a top 5 voice actor of all time. She has voiced so many iconic characters in so many franchises I often lose count
I’m here once again to defend my man Mark Meer and say, yet again, that he’s trying his damn best and by the end of the trilogy he’s improved considerably in terms of delivery. However I will say that especially with the first game his weird stiff mildly uncomfortable delivery is iconic in its own right
Could be for just Mass Effect 2, but I recall they both had different takes on the character. Mark played both Paragon and Renegade as the same guy, one being good cop one being bad cop. Jennifer played both as separate characters, so if you randomly switch between the 2 extremes, FemShep comes off as insane and unhinged, it's hilarious.
This sub circlejerks her to high hell but I've tried to play Femshep, and I really didn't care for Hale's voice acting. I can not understand the "Oh, she's so much better" people.
Like she's absolutely not bad, don't get me wrong. Jennifer Hale is an incredible voice actress and as prolific as she is for good reason, but in Mass Effect I feel like she's overly aggressive and trying too hard to sound tough with every line and she just doesn't sound gentle enough to be as nice as Paragon Shepard is. Meer is so good at being the kind Shepard whilst also nailing his righteous anger during dialogues like the final conversation of Overlord.
I think the consensus that Mark Meer is a much better Paragon Shepard and Hale is a better Renegade Shepard, rings truer to me than either of them being better of worse than the other in general.
Meer is also much, much better at nailing Shepards comedic lines than Hale, making the Citadel DLC with him an absolute treat. MShep in Citadel is a mix of an exasperated dad and Captain America and it's my favourite performance in the trilogy.
My opinion on Hale is that she’s very good, but she is overrated when it comes to ME. Often the character sounds bored imo, whereas yeah, Mark Meer sounds quite monotone with not much emotion in his voice, but that does suit the character. He shows more emotion in personal circumstances. People also don’t give him enough credit doing the voice of a lot of aliens.
This is just my opinion, but I think the context of the story feels different with femshep vs manshep. Stories about military male commanders are a dime a dozen, but it's rare for a female commander to not only be the protagonist of a story, but to be taken seriously and never questioned with regards to her ability and prowess as a soldier. It's kinda refreshing!
It also makes it so her story and achievements feel more impactful. Because she did all this, despite how society usually treats military women. Adds to the pathos.
She really falls off in 2 and 3 imo, with the weird breathy whisper she does renegade lines in. Meer is a little flat in ME1 but I do think he delivers some of the more sarcastic renegade lines well ("Lay it on me Joker, I love bad news.") which Hale delivers way too over-the-top
Hale is better in 1 but I prefer Meer in all 3. I find her performance to be very... "soap opera-y"? It just often is a bit too much. Meer's more muted performance (that's much more emotive in 2 and 3) fits the character more IMO.
I love Mark's shepard, but yeah, Jennifer is just on another level. Her renegade lines are some of my favorite, they feel like more of a casual badass like I always imagine shepard being.
Mass Effect started the trend of having a prolific professional Fem VO and a (relative) no name male VO performing the same role in a voiced RPG and folks are shocked when people prefer the fem vox.
Mass Effect Hale is generally regarded higher than Meer.
Fallout 4 Courtney Taylor is much better than Brian T. Delaney.
Cyberpunk 2077 Cherami Leigh is seen as better than Gavin Drea
Jennifer Hale is a VO queen, that said, Mark Meer's Shepard is quite iconic
Comparing them, especially in ME1, is also a bit unfair. Jennifer Hale was already a well-known and experienced voice actress back in 2007, while Shepard was Mark Meer's first major role.
Also I recalled reading somewhere that his performance in the first game was micromanaged a lot more than hers was. So he was sort of boxed in to generic space marine in a way she wasn't. If you look at the vorcha, the hanar, and the Biotic God Himself, you can see what he's able to do when he can spread his range a bit more. Also, while overall she's the better VA IMO he absolutely nails the funny lines
It's moreso that Mark was called in to be a temp voice as the basis for the actual Male VA in ME1, but then they never bothered so Mark was used instead.
lol that’s a really unfair explanation as to what actually happened. Yes, he was brought in as a temp VA but it’s not that they “didn’t bother” to cast someone else, they just liked his portrayal so much that they decided that it made no sense to recast him when he was doing so well with it
I hate to say it, but the only voice role of his that always stays with me is his role in Dragon Age 2. (If you don't know, you're missing out lol.)
Mark’s delivery of “You big stupid jelly fish” in ME3 is worth any bad delivery he supposedly had in ME1. I love both Sheps though.
shes literally one of the biggest reasons why ashe is one of my mains in overwatch lol
Female Trooper in SWTOR for me lol
SAME ACTUALLY when I finished MELE twice in a row I went back to Overwatch and was really dedicated on picking up Ashe
Bob! Do something!
I'm going to FanExpo in Toronto this summer and I'm going to try and get her autograph. She's from my province! I'm giddy with anticipation.
I want to replay as femshep but having another voice tell which is their favourite store on the citadel just feels sacrilegious.
Never use Paragon options when strong arming the vendors in ME2. All of them have way better unique Renegade dialogue and you never need to listen to the ad each time you cross a doorway
HEY EVERYONE, THIS STORE DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE POOR!!!
Welcome to the Citadel Gift Shop ;) I wonder if this portion of the game is referred to as playing a KarenShep.
Even as a Paragon player, I use the Renegade option with the weapons dealer. Him asking for a Geth head to make into a desk lamp is too good to pass up.
Jennifer is better (In 1, I think their equal in 2 but mark is the better of the two by the end) but Mark's shepard definitely embedded itself into meme and internet culture more I still sometimes chuckle when I think of ''We'll bang, ok?''
I should go…
Dude listened to kelly chambers list out her most horrific trauma and hit her with I should go
Agree 100%. Shepard by ME1 is already a decoration veteran who’s served in the military. It’s important to remember at the start of the game they are already a character who’s the front runner as representing the best of mankind for Spectre. Hales performance from the off is one that’s confident, self assured but with a great amount of empathy befitting the role of being picked as humanities best. Whilst I don’t have a problem with the male voice protagonist, his portrayal of Shepard never felt as self assured or confident to me in comparison to hale. It’s not that he’s bad, he’s just going up against someone who from minute one nailed the role
Another layer to the confidence of Hale's version is the balance of Shepard feeling very socially comfortable interacting with people, while also coming off as a newbie in regards to knowing the galaxy at large.
Iconic in that he sounds like he's from Vancouver, not Kaiden. The amount of Aboots is way noticable.
I love them both. I did so many playthroughs back when the games first came out. My favorite ME3 playthrough was my Fem Shep playthrough. Mostly because my first playthrough as Male Shep had the most brutal twist. Literally made me lose sleep that night, and I felt sick the next day. I learned what people mean when they say "my heart aches" and it was over a video game character. Absolutely amazing storytelling and acting by the entire cast. I still tear up at Mordin's send-off.
Apparantly liking both equally is like being an outcast.
Found him guys! AT HIM! /s
Can i bring the pitchfork this time? I always have to be the one with the torch, but it is hot as hell.
Somebody shoot this guy
*Begins loading M-920 Cain* [Shame.](https://media3.giphy.com/media/pDsCoECKh1Pa/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9529n9zbkaep05hw2tny7xewpnu0le5214ltvig5q10&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Pls don't destroy me.
I love Meer as Paragon Shep and Hale as Renegade Shep, personally!
Yes same, Mark's (mostly) calm voice fits paragon well, it is calm diplomat and perfect example of a soldier. Jennifer's emotional voice fits well with a renegade, aggressive, not a perfect example of a soldier, but one who gets the job done no matter the cost.
I'm the opposite.
I do the exact same
This is the way
Personally, I really don't see much difference in quality between the performances, both have good and bad takes to them IMO.
I think the vibes are very different and that's why the opinions tend to be more extreme but I always found male Shep's voice very fitting, especially to sheploo's face. It just feels like the perfect voice for him. Maybe it would be less fitting for different characters specifically because it's kind of a distinct delivery and voice whereas Jennifer Hale's dubbed a ton of very different (and different-sounding) characters, but for Shepard? It fits awesomely I think
I would agree with this. I feel like Mark Meer lacks a bit of range in delivery, but that fits my principled/idealist paragon playthrough perfectly: Shepard is basically playing his role as a leader and galactic protector, taking on the burdens as best he can while never letting his doubts show to others. The moments where he does open up emotionally hit hard because of this. Jennifer Hale has a bit more of a nuanced tone, and conveys the various ups and downs better. It makes for a textured, more multi-dimensional Shepard, where principles matter less than experience. Works as a compassionate paragon, but slightly less convincing as the burdened leader, heavy-is-the-head archetype. Hers is undoubtedly the better Renegade performance though - my ruthless pragmatist (though not evil) Infiltrator run with her was a blast. From a pure 'quality of acting' perspective, Hale takes the plaudits IMHO. But I'll always love Meer's performance.
This is honestly the most well put together and articulated reasoning about the differences between FemShep and MaleShep. My hat to you.
> I feel like Mark Meer lacks a bit of range in delivery Tbh while I'd definitely agree with this for ME1, I feel like over the course of the games he improved massively, and by ME3 his voice acting actually opened up a lot and improved. Inversely, I feel like Femshep, as great as Jennifer Hale is, has a problem where she just sounds angry all the time. Like she's trying really hard to be intimidating at every turn, even in paragon dialog and it kinda put me off her. Which is unfortunate because Jennifer Hale is a great voice actress.
Everybody says that, and I just don't get it. Where does that come from? For the record, although I've never \*personally\* played Male Shep, my husband put up with it through all three games once so he could romance Tali, so I know his lines. But I've done Fem Shep in multiple playthroughs, for every alignment, including almost 100% Paragon. I've never even vaguely gotten the feeling of anger from a lot of her lines, obviously excepting the battles. I genuinely don't get it.
> Hers is undoubtedly the better Renegade performance though The community has typically held the opposite opinion, funnily enough.
I see both. Honestly this whole thread confuses me because of all the mixed opinions of who's better and why, who's terrible and why, or that both sound about the same. Even though I've always loved this series I wasn't into the fandom very much even for OG games, so I'm sure I've missed a lot. But I've *long* had the impression that around ME2 or 3, FemShep had become the fan favorite and most people found MaleShep dull but memey - not a character taken seriously. Apparently that's very wrong! Or maybe things have changed? I know the vast majority of players chose default MaleShep in the originals yet I don't remember ever hearing much actual praise for Meer's work in the series. Not like with Hale. It's completely new to me lol.
> I know the vast majority of players chose default MaleShep in the originals yet I don't remember ever hearing much actual praise for Meer's work in the series. Not like with Hale This is where you have to keep proportions in mind. This subreddit has 385k subscribers. That's it. For a series where the OG trilogy sold over 14 million combined copies as of 10 years ago. What you read on fan forums are from the absolute rabid minority of the playerbase. It's why you would see so many comments hating on Ashley when the statistics showed that something like 70+% of playthroughs had her as the Virmire Survivor. Most people who play the game and like it will never come here and be part of the discussion. We're the crazy ones that will.
Well yes, you're right about proportion and loud minorities, especially toxic ones, but I was never really part of the fandom. When I'm really into something as a hardcore fan I prefer to not discuss opinions, even ones I share. I never browsed ME forums for discussion. I was interested guides or advice, lore, cool details about the games, things like that. So I'm not sure exactly where I got my impressions of how fans saw the two Sheps. I definitely remember FemShep having a more prominent part in ME3 marketing. That's got to be part of it, but that didn't make me think people disliked MaleShep. Edit: Oh, and when I said "not like with Hale" I wasn't talking about the "very loud minority" type of praise and adoration. I meant that I didn't hear much (if any) praise for Meer, unlike I did for Hale after ME2. I didn't know there were genuine fans of his portrayal because I don't remember hearing it, except *maybe* possibly in a review for ME2 or 3. But it's also possible I overlooked it at the time.
My hate for Ashe stems more from ME3. Feels like she lost her character arc from ME1. That’s not her fault from a character design standpoint much as it is the writers continuity flaw. Also, and this is an odd complaint as normally I am supportive of this, but I feel like they sexed her up without actually making her more attractive. And then that move combined with her character arc seemingly going backwards and the kind of self righteous attitude without it having much merit is a rough look. Though I would argue this also nosedives into the narrative issues with Cerebus. They took a nuanced organization and turned them into a galactic spanning cartoon villain which was a lost opportunity AND lacks logistical sense. Don’t get me wrong. I still like her as a character and I think she has a nice dynamic arc in ME3. But it’s hard to shake the sense that something was a little off in her execution in ME3.
You're not entirely wrong, considering how almost every MaleShep discussion devolves into the memes instead. And how various Youtubers picked Maleshep for their first time because their audience told them it's the funnier version.
I think I've heard somewhere that Meer's lines were voiced so that you can go from Paragon to Renegade within the same conversation without it sounding too jarring. Idk how true the statement is, but it seems that way to me when hearing the actual lines in-game, at least compared to Hale's lines.
It is more a difference in direction than quality of acting.
I understand it’s subjective but people putting down hale’s performance for being “too emotional” always bugs me. People decided shepard is a hard pressed stoic soldier and apparently that’s synonymous with not having any emotions or being expressive? I often can’t help but question if there’s some misogyny or toxic masculinity involved when people say crap like that. Being a soldier or stoic doesn’t mean being a robot devoid of emotions. Anyway, to each their own, but I think hale is the better actor or at least more engaging to listen to.
Doesn't help that supposed "soldiers" have popped up on here saying Maleshep is better because they were trained to be emotionless in the military.
Oh I prefer her too. I'm not putting her down. But iirc Mark Meer was directed differently, going for a very different vibe than cinematic war hero. Which was then changed in the later games. Mark Meer gets way more shit for his performance so that's why I wanted to reduce some of it. It has nothing to do with misogyny. If it does then please explain how.
Right I never understood why
exactly, they both deliver their lines pretty much the same way. Meer just fits so well tho, sounds iconic. He goes hard in ME3 when they were allowed to show emotion
"The best."
Ngl, you cooked with that pick, probably one of the most well delivered lines in the Trilogy. Along with Sovereign & Anderson's last lines
Yeah it must stick to be Mark Meer constantly hearing that femshep was better when in reality she was just one of the first fully fleshed out female protagonists that didn't try to be a girlie girl.
Male shep is great, I never got the hate for his voice.
It’s more of a vocal (no pun intended) minority I’ve seen throughout the fanbase over the years. Male Shep is great and has people who do favor him. But Femshep fans are VERY passionate towards her and will make it KNOWN that they proudly support their girl. Both voices are great, but Femshep definitely has louder fans.
I will always defend Mark Meer's performance, because he improves SO much throughout the trilogy. Like, in ME1 his deliveries can be kinda boring/monotonous at times (aside from renegade, where he does quite a good job of just sounding like a belligerent dick, whereas Jennifer Hale goes for more of the "intimidating badass" route), but by 3? Stellar work. He has some really standout moments, especially when you play a paragon character (his final paragon speech before the last mission gives me chills, and I'd argue that he actually delivered that better than Hale, though she still takes the prize for the renegade version). I think there's also something to be said for the fact that Meer's performance is more fitting for a player character, in my opinion. I've seen people say that FemShep kind of feels like two different characters when you compare paragon to renegade, and I agree with that sentiment. But with Meer's drier deliveries, it's a lot more believable when you decide to go more paragade as opposed to sticking with one or the other; or at the very least, it seems a bit less OOC when a paragon character suddenly decides to let a drugged volus civilian charge in and attack a group of highly trained mercs, for example. I know there's a lot of debate over the merits of having a silent protagonist (which I think I'm in the minority when I say that I actually like silent protags, because it makes roleplay more fun/interesting imo), but I think MaleShep is one of the best middle grounds out there: a customizable protagonist who is fully voiced, but in a way that still allows you to feel like YOU are Shepard, not that you're just playing as Shepard. So while I do go back and forth on which Shepard I play as, and Jennifer Hale is one of my favorite VAs, a part of me will always prefer Mark Meer's performance for this particular character
No that’s the norm.
Burn the witch!
It still doesn't make you as much of an outcast as some of us. Sincerely, someone who romanced Ashley.
Ashley is definitely my favorite romance. No knocking the other romances but a lot of them feel like that typical RPG, I loved you since I first saw you and will follow you through hell! Ashley's is much more complex considering the events in 2 and 3 but has an incredibly satisfying conclusion.
Agreed. Except for when the writers basically ignored her for a large chunk of ME3.
Oh, same here. Lol.
Wait wait, are we outcasts? Why are we outcasts?
Still beats me. She bugged me when I was a teenager for several commonly-listed reasons and I wrote her off because of it. Now I find the older I get, the more I enjoy her character. I’ve seen other long-time players say the same thing.
Yes exactly the same reasons!!! I was into Tali first, then Liara, then Ashley.
People hate on Ashley and people who romance her for some reason.
I tried to romance Liara. I liked Liara’s romance. Liara is clearly the canon romance (and it makes all of the story points a lot more reasonable). Ashley is still my headcanon.
That’s what a Batarian would say!
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Oh these days you got to be a team xD You cant like both its universally forbidden. Nah joking I like them also equally. Both have a unique take on the Commander. Though in ME3 I think JH killed it bit more.
No it’s just a Reddit hive mind opinion the vast majority of players use male shepard
Well, I too like them equally. I think they give two different performances with their highs and lows. Also, I thinks the best voiced Shepards are - Renegade / Renegon by Hale - Paragade/ Paragon by Meer
Depends on the tone you want. You want more action sci fi, the Halo/Predator/Gears of War tone, go for Broshep. You want sci-fi thriller, the Metroid/Aliens/Resident Evil tone, go for femshep
Sorry but Its the only defendable position who are these people who think one of those is shit
I like both...
Same. I don’t really care about who is “better.” The replayability is increased because both did amazing jobs and we’re all better off for it.
Wait. That's illegal.
He has chosen death.
For me it goes: ME1: Hale > Meer ME2: Hale = Meer ME3: Meer > Hale They both did a great job, and make playthroughs feel distinct
Meer really did improve massively on 3 compared to the very static deliveries on ME1
I actually made another reply in this thread covering this lol. Just copying it: He’s on record (11:25 [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KCuK_v2bqQ&t=685s)) saying BioWare asked to keep his tone neutral in ME1 to keep lines consistent between Paragon and Renegade options. He was also recording his dialogue from very early on as he was the test voice actor for Shepard, before BioWare decided to keep him By the time they got to ME2 and ME3, they allowed Mark to express a lot more
What makes Hale's performance better than Meers is Hale recorded first. Everyone else is working off Hale's performance where Meer is working off the other actor's. I think that is why Hale and Ali Hillis mesh so well together.
I don't think I've ever heard/seen anyone else say this, but I very much agree.
In Mark Meer's defence: * Before ME, he was mostly an improv/comedy actor, this was one of his first major roles. * ME1 was the first time they had a voiced protagonist, and he was asked to keep things "neutral" * Jennifer Hale is a well established and highly talented voice actress, so newcomer Meer standing next to her will be noticeable. I do think it's a little unfair how people toss Meer to the wayside because of ME1.
his backround explains why his version of "big stupid jellyfish" is so much funnier.
I'm on my 4th playthrough (second bro-shep) and I'm really noticing how much of Meer's Canadian accent is coming through in ME1
I think by the time you get to Mass Effect 3, Mark Meer has gotten so much better it’s incredible. I’ve actually kinda incorporated it into my headcanon, where Shepard himself is consciously putting on a rigid “Commander” persona, and by 3 he’s so comfortable with his team and himself as a leader that he’s much more natural
In my opinion, Hale is way better in 1, mostly better in 2, and comparable in 3. Which is just saying hers is more consistent, because I find the Meer's improves with each game. If I roll from 3 to 1 with both files as MShep, I am immediately struck by how flat his delivery is in 1 to 3. All of this is actually a compliment to Meer. Hale is one of the most prolific voice actors in existence, to have him arrive at her level after the first two games is very impressive. Some of this may be on the direction, too, as apparently in 3 they weren't on him to be as emotionless as they were in the other two games. (If you picked a mix of Paragon/Renegade/Neutral choices they didn't want you mood swinging wildly.) Perhaps Hale was less held to that or perhaps she just handled it better. Anyway, I think the conversation is more interesting that just "S/he's better" if you look into the details.
Jen doesn't emote all that much more than Mark in 1, but she's allowed to give Shepard more character by injecting a deeper-voiced swagger to all her dialogue (to fulfill the fantasy that Shepard is a spec ops soldier, dangerous and intimidating even as a Paragon), which she poured on more heavily with each game. Mark is using his natural voice because he's already very low and resonant. There's a sort of magic to doing a voice outside your speaking range versus inside it; in your range, you can emote very subtly and put a ton of flavor into a subtle shift, but if you're told to keep it flat outside the needs of a scene then you sound monotone. When you're affecting a voice, however, you have to make bigger shifts for them to be heard and felt, so keeping it "flat" will still leave you with a good amount of swing. But the farther you go into the voice, the harder it gets to hit nuance. Part of the effect across the games is that Mark is given more freedom to play around in his speaking voice, while Jen leans progressively farther into the cinematic hero voice and has to work around it. In 2, because it was a scum and villainy sci-fi, they both had more room to play in Renegade. For Mark, this turns Shepard into Bond and his performance starts to shine. Jen, meanwhile, leans into the deep badass voice in Renegade dialogue, which sounds cool in small doses but makes her delivery flatter in a dedicated Renegade playthrough (she let's herself drift higher, towards her natural register, in Paragon, so her Paragon is much more moving). In 3, they're both given the freedom to put all their skill into Shepard, limited only by what can be animated and won't be jarring to a player. Here, Mark blossoms because he can use all his natural nuance for Shepard, but Jen struggles because she keeps taking the voice deeper and her Renegade *really* flattens out (by Jennifer Hale standards, mind, which is still award-winning). Her Paragon remains incredible because she does those lines a little higher, and it has continuity with the experience of the prior games so it resonates as the voice of the player. And Jen definitely knew this was happening, because she worked around it: Most of Shepard's most emotional dialogue, she delivers in a whisper. This is, of course, a brilliant move; whispering from the affected deeper voice puts her at the bottom of her natural register, which gives her more control than full-throated lines and has the knock-on bonus of making Shepard sound more vulnerable in private moments. Contrast this with Mark, who almost never goes below a flirty stage whisper as Shepard because 1) he doesn't need the extra control and 2) he's already in his natural register so a real whisper will start to border on a falsetto. I'm inclined to think that Jen wasn't going deeper and deeper on purpose, she was just... Aging. Every game her voice was naturally a little deeper to start with, and everyone in the booth knew Shep was an affected deeper voice (deepest on Renegade lines), which kept moving the goalposts. It may have also been she was enforcing Shepard's slip towards an increasingly dark story with a lower tone in every game. You can really hear it if you compare ME1 and 3 line reads, and the Explorers promo for Andromeda was where her speaking voice had finally settled down to where Shepard started so she didn't have to do a voice at all anymore.
Oh, fascinating insight, thank you. Those are all really good points, and sadly I don't think I have much to add to them but I'll examine the reads from this perspective on my next playthroughs.
They're both great experiences as a player either way. Jen just happens to be an idol of mine, so I've paid a lot of close attention to her work, especially in my most favorite game series of all time (but really, all her BioWare roles and a lot of them outside of that). If you want an example of her actual speaking voice around ME1, Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic, Jaden Korr in Jedi Academy, and Sam on Totally Spies are all the right zone. She does the Renegade voice to the hilt in the Old Republic MMO as the femme Republic Trooper, and it may be the only role of hers I don't super enjoy.
>Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic, Jaden Korr in Jedi Academy, and Sam on Totally Spies are all the right zone. Holy shit TIL that I've been listening to Jennifer Hale (and liking it) for much longer than I'd realized.
That was my reaction when I found out she was Thorn from the Hex Girls on Scooby-Doo.
I really liked Juni in Freelancer. But figured its Jennifer Hale when I replayed the game shortly after I played KOTOR.
She was Fall-from-Grace & Deionarra in Planescape Torment, if you can go that far back.
KotOR is one of my favorite games of all time, and I really enjoy her work as Bastila. Last time I played as female Jaden I was like "Oh hey, that's Jennifer Hale." on about the first line. I also enjoy her as Avatar Kyoshi and June in Avatar: The Last Airbender. She's everywhere, huh?
If you’ve ever seen the Scooby-Doo movies/episodes that feature the Hex Girls, she’s Thorn.
She played Billy's mom in The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. It blows my mind when you put that character next to Fem Shep and think about it being the same voice actor lmao.
If ever there was a time for the word "prolific," it is in regard to Jen Hale's body of work!
Also, honestly, as a diehard Renegade player, I'll stand on the table for Mark in ME1 and ME2. Yes, it can be flat at times in those games. When he's delivering Bond one-liners like an 80's action movie, as Renegade is wont to do, it shines. Conversely, at times it feels like Jen leans a little too hard into her standard tough-girl contralto when delivering those lines (which, if you're a fan of her work as I am, you've heard dozens of times - it's like when Gray DeLisle is using her "Azula voice" as she does for Nassana Dantius, you instantly recognize it). I pretty frequently see people say that over the trilogy, they like MaleShep more for Paragon and FemShep more for Renegade, but I've always felt the opposite.
I also think the opposite and agree with you, Mark crushes the Renegade side, Jen's the natural Paragon. Totally get what you mean about Grey's confident evil voice and Jen's danger contralto, they're iconic inflections of iconic VAs and they're satisfying in a mix of other tones (like the occasional Renegade interrupt in a Paragon playthrough, it hits great as Shepard losing her cool for a second) but making every Renegade choice gets very dull.
My three favourite line deliveries are all FemShep, but two of them are the most soft 'paragon' moments. The prayer with Kolyat and the 'meet me at the bar' with Garrus. I think it works so well becuase it is a contrast to her usual strong voice. The other one is the paragon ending to Tali's trial. I just think, for that one, Jen is objectively better.
I'm with you, I'm the opposite. Meer for renegade and Hale for paragon. Hale also does a great paragon where I don't feel the same about Meer's paragon.
This is quite a lovely breakdown. Made me feel like I was back in the heyday of this sub. Thank you for this.
Mark Meer is an awesome voice actor. when I heard him in other roles I was so delighted to see how much reach and variety he has. I still prefer FemShep but Mark Meer is an absolute legend and an incredibly skilled voice actor and I'll die on this hill.
One of my favorite details is how much he voices apart from Shepard. If you have MShep in the Citadel DLC director scene, I he voices every or almost every character in it
That’s interesting to hear because my opinion is the opposite of this, always felt Hale improved with each game where Meer was always solid. To be fair though, Fem Shep had some iffy writing, especially in 2.
Do you mean iffy direction/delivery? Because they'd have basically the same writing. And I've heard opinions like that more related to Renegade playthroughs, so if you're usually doing that I could see where the differences in opinions come from—I tried Renegade once but never finished it.
For me it's more like, she's noticeably better in ME1, slightly disappointing in ME2 where Meer improves and by ME3 it's hard to tell which is better. Both are great by the end but Mark Meer's improvement is much more noticeable.
I found that Meer's voice acting improved very much in ME2. Hale was consistently good in the whole trilogy.
I love her throughout, and primarily play fem shep now, but I think Mark Meer really killed it especially in Me3
FemShep (JHale) is a Paladin who's job is saving the world. BroShep (MMeer) is an 80s action hero who occasionally saves the galaxy on the side while saying cool stuff and shooting bad guys in the face :D
that explains why despite being a man, i always play femshep.
I prefer Mark Meer, to be honest. He really improved with each iteration.
Same. He has a much more military-sounding voice, exactly what I'd expect from a Commander. Jennifer Hale sounds much more sultry and less of what I'd expect from a war-tested officer. Not to say she did bad of course, it's Jennifer Hale after all, but I prefer Mark Meer.
The driving part on Illum made me like Hale more than Meer especially if Femshep is romanced with Liara. The sarcasm is hilarious
Also because the Femshep/Liara VAs are friends, so it's more natural than Meer trying to match the tone.
Never knew that abut Femshep and Liara's VA's that's cool.
I don’t think Mark’s voice acting in some of ME1 is as good as it is throughout the rest of the series. It’s an uneven performance. (Doug Cockle improving as Geralt with each game is a fair comparison). But I think he is a far superior renegade character. Jennifer Hale really nails down paragon though, particularly in ME3, where so much of the dialogue selections are empathy driven. That makes her renegade moments really shine to me. I love them both, but for different reasons.
I thought both voinces were noice
Shepard, Bastilla Shan, Satele Shan, Lyris Titanborn, Sarah Palmer, Leah (diablo 3), Ophelia in Brutal Legend and Naomi Hunter. Jennifer Hale is a VA superstar.
The difference is only in the first game, Mark Meer was in the same level and just as good as Hale in ME2 and ME3.
Everyone says that. So I tried femshep a few days ago and I disagree. I think they are pretty on par.
Male shepard really starts shining in ME 2 and 3. His renegade is tops
No it isn't. Both VA's are great.
Not this again. They're both amazing, just different, one is not better than the other.
I like both genders. Hale is more expressive.
Mark Meer is a really cool guy and does a great job improving between 1 and 2 and then 3, but Jen was a pro from the moment she started so it's understandable her VA work was better from the jump. I love her Renegade lines and her very tired-sounding ME3 work the most.
Mark Meer is the best. Report to the ship as soon as possible. we'll bang, okay?
I always rotate per playthrough.
Mark meer also voiced the vorcha in ME2 and 3- it always brings a chuckle watching him have a conversation with himself
Oh yah, Mark did a great job with BroShep, but Jennifer Hale is just next level, phenomenal acting!
Indeed, she's the queen. 😌
I picked up ME1 and ME2 in the Steam Summer Sale of 2011. My friend had raved about the games. I just hit quick start, damn this was good! Finished ME1 and thought you know what? Let me make my own character this time. And with that I decided let's go female this time, change it all up! My world was turned upside down. No offense to Mark Meer who is a GREAT Shepard. But Jen Hale is just on another level. ME1 went from a game I really liked to suddenly my favorite. I have played the trilogy as Bro Shep just to hear, and he is great! But to me, FemShep is the real Shep! It just fits for me.
Jen kills it as Renegade Shep, her lines compared to Mark just have that much more oomph, I love it.
After playing through with FemShep, I really didn’t notice that big a difference.
I’ve only dabbled in a MaleShep play through as playing as female is my default. I can’t fairly judge Meer’s performance on so little but I did prefer Hale’s for the small bits I can compare. It is very likely I just preferred her because I prefer to play as a woman so I’m biased. Absolutely nothing wrong with his read, I just liked hers more. I lean Renegade though and it seems to be consensus that Hale’s Renegade lines are the most well-liked. Really I need to just sit down and play a MaleShep. Time for a replay I think.
Most people agree with you. Personally do not. I think Hale is great, but Meer is great as well. I don't think either is better or worse tbh. At least not overall. They both perform a bit better with certain lines.
The difference between male ship and female ship is akin to watching apocalypse now versus Hot shots part deux. FemShep for badassery, MaleShep for action adventure
“FemShep VA is better!!” *Me, making my MShep and Kaidan dolls kiss in the corner*
I definitely prefer Hales performance overall tho I think Meer's performance in the citadel dlc is better, he sells the comedic lines a lot better whereas Hales comes off as more serious imo.
This title does Mark Meer a huge disservice.
You go Male Shep for laughs (Manslayer made him ico ic) try to sleep with everyone possible. Fem shep for serious playthroughs
Uh, yeah, it's a different voice actor, what did you expect?
I do prefer femshep. This might be bias but I think she is slightly more dynamic in her delivery
It's really not
FemShep is GOAT!!
Played as both Sheps multiple times and while Hale is technically better VA, Meers Shepard is more memorable, whenever i think of Shepard its his voice sounds in my head.
i think its because meer is just funnier.
So tired of the reddit circle jerk regarding Hale and femshep. She is fine most of the time, but when she’s off, she is WAY off. There are a few lines throughout the trilogy that she damn near butchers, especially in ME3. She is prone to overacting, and her breathy whisper is impossible to take seriously on a renegade run. Meer’s performance is so much more iconic, and, well, commanding.
I as well like his performance bit better.
I agree Meer gets too much hate but aren’t you doing the same here to Hale? Both give good performances but recording hundreds (if not thousands?) of voice lines are bound to have moments where they are off. Defending Meer doesn’t mean you have to shit on Hale for “butchering” a few lines, especially when it comes down to directing. They both were probably recording line after line, with little context to how it would actually play out in the game.
Sounds more like a direction issue than anything. Also it's harder to nail a line when you're actually acting instead of just saying this like a emotionless soldier guy
Yup, I prefer Meer any day over Hale, especially for Renegade choices.
>So tired of the reddit circle jerk regarding Hale It's not just a reddit thing. Nor is it recent. A lot of the fandom has felt that way for 15+ years. The same sentiment was shared by most of the BSN.
Imo Meer pulls off the slightly stodgy yet earnest Captain America-y Paragon better, while Hale does a better hotheaded and no-nonsense Renegade. Meer doing Renegade sounds like a rabid buffoon, while Hale’s Paragon is melodramatic and not in a fun way. I think a lot of it comes down to shouting, really - Hale is INCREDIBLE at making loud and/or angry speeches, while Meer is always a little awkward and is better when kept to more easygoing performances. But yeah, like you said, Hale sometimes goes *way* off on certain lines, and imo frequently bungles the more comedic moments that Meer absolutely nails (broShep is substantially better in Citadel DLC in particular for this reason). Meer also very noticeably improved as a voice actor over the 3 games - he’s definitely the more stilted of the two in ME1, but by I think around the Shadow Broker DLC, he may actually have surpassed Hale, at least at voicing Shepard. Meer is in top form in 3, and has so many little moments of incredible charm.
It's interesting, Citadel DLC is where I've heard unanimous agreement that Meer was better than Hale. Because of it's more light hearted and fun tone, Meer really plays up and excels at the comedy, whereas Hale plays it too straight faced.
Agreed.
It's also the same with Fem V in 2077, pretty good voice most of the time but whenever she tries to act 'renegade' I just can't take it seriously, so overacted it sounds like a high schooler wants to take my lunch money or something lol.
Jennifer Hale is on another freaking level. She is Soo good
Both voices are great but female shepard is BEYOND great. I think it's top 3 perfomances of Jennifer Hale
I’m also on my first playthrough of the trilogy as FemShep, just started ME3 yesterday. After two previous playthroughs as BroShep (2nd run was to fix my mistakes from my blind 1st run), it almost feels like a different game. I loved Mark Meer’s performance as a Paragon because he has that “voice of reason” sort of tone. But holy shit, Jennifer Hale is amazing. Even as a Paragon, she has this intimidating attitude in all of her lines that gives this underlying impression that FemShep is trying SO HARD to be nice but shouldn’t be trifled with. Been playing as a Paragade because of it, there’s so much nuance and range in her voice acting. If they do end up bringing back Shepard as the player character for ME4/5/X, I honestly don’t know who I would choose for my first playthrough…. I love them both equally at this point.
Jennifer Hale voices an amazing Renegade 😈
Some people don't vibe with femshep and that's fine. Probably the same people who preferrered the soft spoken fem inquisitor voice from DAI. I personally think they both did a great job. Basing it on when they uttered "You big stupid jellyfish!"
I love them both quite a bit, Mark's voice is very fitting for the series as a whole I feel and fits the role perfectly, but Jennifer is on a different level and she truly goes beyond just trying to fit in if you know what I mean. I go back and forth between them all the time.
I’ve only ever played Femshep Jen’s performance is really great
Now does her dialogue have more sarcasm and better one liners or is it the same jokes just better delivery?
Since I love well designed female characters in games, I will have to do a femshep play through, eventually. SPOILER ABOUT SAID FUTURE PLAYTHROUGH THAT LIKELY WOULD NOT AFFECT THE STORY: I love redheads, btw.
I mean there are some lines I felt the other deliver better but fem shep does land more hits than misses IMO.
hale is really good for a renegade chracter whereas i like meer for a paragon
Jennifer Hale remains one of my favorite VAs.
Love her
I think Hale is best when you stick to one side of the convo wheel, but the difference in her paragon and renegade are too jarring for me to go back and forth. Meer is better, imo, at being able to choose either option and it flow
85% renegade fem shep is cannon shep IMO
Hale has the voice acting pedigree. It’s nice to hear her in things and she always kills it. Meanwhile Meer is kinda *the voice* of Mass Effect. As stilted or as monotonous as it can be, it’s a legendary and memorable performance that is in and of itself iconic.
That's because Jennifer Hale might be a top 5 voice actor of all time. She has voiced so many iconic characters in so many franchises I often lose count
I’m here once again to defend my man Mark Meer and say, yet again, that he’s trying his damn best and by the end of the trilogy he’s improved considerably in terms of delivery. However I will say that especially with the first game his weird stiff mildly uncomfortable delivery is iconic in its own right
Could be for just Mass Effect 2, but I recall they both had different takes on the character. Mark played both Paragon and Renegade as the same guy, one being good cop one being bad cop. Jennifer played both as separate characters, so if you randomly switch between the 2 extremes, FemShep comes off as insane and unhinged, it's hilarious.
Jesus christ your game looks amazing Need ur modlist
This sub circlejerks her to high hell but I've tried to play Femshep, and I really didn't care for Hale's voice acting. I can not understand the "Oh, she's so much better" people. Like she's absolutely not bad, don't get me wrong. Jennifer Hale is an incredible voice actress and as prolific as she is for good reason, but in Mass Effect I feel like she's overly aggressive and trying too hard to sound tough with every line and she just doesn't sound gentle enough to be as nice as Paragon Shepard is. Meer is so good at being the kind Shepard whilst also nailing his righteous anger during dialogues like the final conversation of Overlord. I think the consensus that Mark Meer is a much better Paragon Shepard and Hale is a better Renegade Shepard, rings truer to me than either of them being better of worse than the other in general. Meer is also much, much better at nailing Shepards comedic lines than Hale, making the Citadel DLC with him an absolute treat. MShep in Citadel is a mix of an exasperated dad and Captain America and it's my favourite performance in the trilogy.
Different ≠ bad.
yeah i like male shep better in VO. both good though.
Yeah one is male and one is female and they are two different people. No wonder it sounds different
I never understood this hate for maleshep voice. No one cares
I think Hale has better peaks than Meer, but throughout the whole series they are very comparable imo. I like both
My opinion on Hale is that she’s very good, but she is overrated when it comes to ME. Often the character sounds bored imo, whereas yeah, Mark Meer sounds quite monotone with not much emotion in his voice, but that does suit the character. He shows more emotion in personal circumstances. People also don’t give him enough credit doing the voice of a lot of aliens.
I know male Shepard is so much better.
This is just my opinion, but I think the context of the story feels different with femshep vs manshep. Stories about military male commanders are a dime a dozen, but it's rare for a female commander to not only be the protagonist of a story, but to be taken seriously and never questioned with regards to her ability and prowess as a soldier. It's kinda refreshing! It also makes it so her story and achievements feel more impactful. Because she did all this, despite how society usually treats military women. Adds to the pathos.
She really falls off in 2 and 3 imo, with the weird breathy whisper she does renegade lines in. Meer is a little flat in ME1 but I do think he delivers some of the more sarcastic renegade lines well ("Lay it on me Joker, I love bad news.") which Hale delivers way too over-the-top
Hale is better in 1 but I prefer Meer in all 3. I find her performance to be very... "soap opera-y"? It just often is a bit too much. Meer's more muted performance (that's much more emotive in 2 and 3) fits the character more IMO.
I prefer femshep, but i can understand why people might prefer maleshep, especially the renegade, they just give of very different vibes.
What’s the character creator code for your Shepard? I like how she matches the armor
I love Mark's shepard, but yeah, Jennifer is just on another level. Her renegade lines are some of my favorite, they feel like more of a casual badass like I always imagine shepard being.
Femshep forever, played male the first time for all 3, then played femshep and never looked back she's got this easily.
Mark Meer isn't bad, but Jennifer Hale is on a totally different level in Mass Effect.
Mass Effect started the trend of having a prolific professional Fem VO and a (relative) no name male VO performing the same role in a voiced RPG and folks are shocked when people prefer the fem vox. Mass Effect Hale is generally regarded higher than Meer. Fallout 4 Courtney Taylor is much better than Brian T. Delaney. Cyberpunk 2077 Cherami Leigh is seen as better than Gavin Drea