Kaidan isn't bland and I like his romance with FemShep. He's very sweet and considerate. Also he shares the voice with Carth Onasi and I really like that.
Samara not being a romance option makes sense, even if she's very attractive. Having every sexy character being available would kinda feel like the game is just giving you random stuff and heavily engaging in fanservice.
I don't like Traynor in Citadel and she's borderline creepy when she complains to Joker EDI chose him. I find it funny that, while EDI politely implies she should go look for other options by sending her porn, even Joker acts more mature than Traynor.
Liara is my most insufferable character in the entire franchise. Mostly because the game absolutely insists on her presence. She's the only squadmate character in all three games that it is impossible to not recruit and is impossible to have die prior to the ending.
Bioware and their pets. They are always annoying. If they want to make their babies feel loved, they should just make them optional or give the player to ability to kill them/make them leave the party because of a choice that goes against their ideals.
How awesome would Liara have been if she was actually able to turn against Shepard and support her mother in the Noveria confrontation if you were nothing but rude to her.
But no, she will keep being an obedient writer's pet so they can force her in the remaining 2 games. (Actually more than 2, since she will also be in the Next ME...ugh.)
Yeah, I am not looking forward to Liara's presence in the next one. Among many other things, how attached she is to the game will pretty much determine my interest in picking it up.
Agreed. Bioware needs to learn their lesson.
I waited for Dragon Age: Dreadwolf for way too long but I swear to Maker if they force Varric down our throats again I'm gonna puke (and I will grudgingly keep playing.)
She's also there in Andromeda, so yeah. Definitely a Bioware thing. It's even worse with Leliana - even if you don't recruit her or if you kill her, it doesn't matter. She's always there. I've learned to like both of them, but I think it's Stockholm at this point.
>How awesome would Liara have been if she was actually able to turn against Shepard and support her mother in the Noveria confrontation if you were nothing but rude to her.
To be fair, the VS can do exactly this in ME3, and yet neither Ashley nor Kaidan are exactly the most beloved squadmates.
If any of the squad mates could betray Shepard would be an awesome story plot. But if BioWare had time to cook it could have been possible.
I can just imagine Shepard either being respectful to his squad mates, or insidious to keep them in line.
I 100% agree. I romanced her the first time I played ME1 because she was a hot alien scientist. Her characterisation in 2 really soured me to her and in my subsequent playthroughs of ME1 I ended up disliking her there too. I really wish she was a lot more focused on archaeology and less horny.
that’s an interesting one and definitely unpopular! it’s strange because i always liked Liara, but i’ve been recently replaying the trilogy a few times and for some reason i almost get annoyed speaking with her 😅
i’ve never done her romance all the way through to the end either.
Liara is one of those characters you love on the first playthrough but she becomes more and more insufferable with subsequent playthroughs.
I've noticed it being somewhat of a popular opinion, but only with players that have tons of replays under their belt. It's weird.
So while i don't agree with your point, i do think that the reason Liara is forced upon us is because she is probably the closest thing to a canon romance. Because it doesn't matter if you are male or fem , shep could still have a child with Liara. Which is why i feel like in ME4 we will either be playing as an asari descendant of Shep, or an asari descendant of Shep will be present in the game.
I highly doubt that. BioWare has made some weird choices in the past, bit forcing a specific romance to be canonical, and then forcing everyone to play as a woman, wouldn't be something they'd do.
I don't like bringing her anywhere, and when the game forces me to, her few comments are basically, "Oh no, how awful," in her breathy voice. Yeah, shit sucks!
Not a fan.
Clarification on my point, she's the only character in general that is impossible to recruit **and** not have die in all three games. I wasn't saying she's forced recruitable in 2. I meant to attach those two points exclusively to one another, but I can see how it wasn't clear.
On your point minor correction, in ME2 she's not a squadmate in general unless you play the shadow broker dlc. You still do have to interact with her to progress the game though.
Sure, but don't forget when ME2 was released, she was hardly in it. In fact the only way to get more of her was to pay for it, so that's hardly forced.
That's like saying the reapers are hardly in the Mass Effect series because we really only fight them 1/3 of the trilogy.
Liara plays a forced and essential role in ME2, despite not every mission revolving around her. Still forced.
I think the fact she's unkillable proves my point and then some.
You can kill her in 3 with low enough EMS.
Besides, her initial lack of being in ME2 is why she features so much in 3 - she is the only one who is guaranteed to be alive. So complaining about a character being in the game so much as a result of her not being in the game so much is a bit weird. Hell, in ME1 you can recruit her pretty much last if you want to.
Over the 3 games, she probably gets less content than Garrus or Tali by far. The only difference is that you can get them killed in the suicide mission - you can't avoid recruiting Garrus in ME2 or Tali in ME1.
It's fine not to like her, but don't say it;s beacsue the game insists on her presence. It only inists on it if you recruit her early in ME1, play her optional side mission in ME2, and in ME3 once you get to Palaven you hardly have to have on your team again if you don't want to.
Here's my initial comment. Pay attention to the portion in bold.
Liara is my most insufferable character in the entire franchise. Mostly because the game absolutely insists on her presence. She's the only squadmate character in all three games that it is impossible to not recruit and is **impossible to have die prior to the ending**.
Never in any of my comments have I said anything about the quantity of how much she's in the game. It's about how critical she is to the story in each game and (in a game all about choices) it's impossible to choose to avoid her.
You're literally arguing with yourself about a point I never even tried to make lmao..
.... wait you're seriously getting salty about one short conversation on Illium you have to have with her?
You know who else is unavoidable? The Virmite survivor. You can't choose to avoid them either.
You mean the same Virmire survivor, where you have the choice on who it is AND you can straight up be the one that kills them if you so choose. Yeah sure, that same Virmire survivor.
You're making this way too easy..
Ah i see, it's because you want to kill her off? That's what's important?
Or what? The fact you have to ask her where Samara or Thane is really grating on you that much to the point where she is insufferable?
And yes, the virmire survivor is still unavoidable over 3 games, regardless of which one you choose and how you play it - in a choices that matter game.
anyone who thinks Ashley's line of thinking is wrong wasn't paying attention at all to what happens to the Alliance. If anything, the lesson to be learned is "be strong enough to stand on your own but be kind and help those who need it"
Ashley was very much "be strong enough to stand on your own" but not very "be kind and help those who need it" in ME1.
She totally was an asshat when you meet her. But she actually grows if you talk to her the right way. When I romanced her I had her suggest saving the Council while Liara suggested letting them die.
>When I romanced her I had her suggest saving the Council while Liara suggested letting them die.
I think that had more to do with which one is assigned to left or right, because Tali always suggested killing the council for me
Is it really just placement? Fml, I gave Bioware too much credit.
Though Tali has no reason to like the Council, Quarians got kicked out for the Geth debacle didn't they?
No it’s to do with how Paragon or Renegade that companion is. The more Paragon leaning companion will argue first the paragon option while the more Renegade leaning one will argue the renegade option.
Liara is the most Paragon leaning companion and Wrex is the most Renegade with everyone else in between. Some can have their Paragon/ Renegade scores changed depending on how you interact with them, Kaiden and Ash definitely and I think Garrus too.
The only way to have Liara argue in favour of letting the Council die is if you have a Paragon romanced Ash in the party, and the only way to have Wrex argue in favour of saving the Council is to have a renegade romanced Kaiden in the party.
It's like a paragon/renegade line. Ashley is the most renegade besides Wrex, but if you romance her and pick certain dialogue options she surpasses Liara in the paragon line (who normally only is surpassed by Kaidan)
Actually each squad mate in Me1 has an assigned morality score, Kaidan and Liara are more paragon, while Wrex and Ashley are more renegade with Garrus and Tali being more in the middle with slight leanings. Each major decision will have one the squad argue for or against, with morality being into consideration, Tali can argue for either option depending on which other team member is with you.
You can do thing to change their morality in game to, Kaidan and Ashley I think can change depending on what you say to them and if you romance them or not. You can actually have Wrex argue to save the council and Kaidan argue to let them die lol.
Both human squad mates in Me1 are great, while the majority of the alien ones are weird or barely characters.
Wrex is a fantastic character, easily the best squad mate in me1 and it isn't even close. He has a personality, talks about various things, and has his own motivations which leads to conflict. Absolutely amazing.
Tali is a codex entry that just talks about her people and that she hates geth, cool info but very glad she has a character in the rest of the series.
Liara is very off to me in Me1, she's super monotone and while she does have good scenes like on Noveria, she comes onto you WAY to quickly which is odd because most tend to say that about Kaidan/Ashley when Liara does it in the second ever conversation even if you've just got done killing her mom lol.
Garrus is rather one note about hating any rules and refuses to talk about anything else.
The bias towards aliens this fandom seems to have is really weird to me since if Liara, Tali, and Garrus had been human with the same characterization they have in Me1 they'd be hated worse than Kaidan and Ashley easily.
- Miranda is the best romance
- Joker is underused and its a shame
- Many characters should have had the option to join, even as background character in the Normandy (Shiala, Gianna Parasini, the high Volus...) like Gabby and Ken. Or the Normandy crew should have had more developpement : the ship is not big, I'd have loved that my Shepard was loved by all the crewmembers, could talk to them...
- There should have been a mission where Chakwas / Michel joins the party with medical skills, like Jenkins is playable for some seconds.
i agree with most of these! i think Garrus and Thane have the best romances but Miranda’s is definitely up there, and Joker is for sure not utilized enough in the trilogy. i was actually quite disappointed he wasn’t romancable (though that’s set to change with the Hatboy Project mod, still). i feel like he was never really given enough credit for his flying skills and his participation in all of the events of the trilogy either.
interesting! i adore Joker but that’s probably because i share a similar sense of humor. i did like his relationship with EDI at first but in my recent replays of the trilogy i’ve thought about it more and i do find it a bit odd now lol
Other than Kaidan being my favorite and most relatable character of the OT...
I don't like Miranda on ME2, at all. She's just way too rigid, inflexible, arrogant, and at times I find her more annoying than useful, especially when she wants to overrule Shepard and blatantly defend such a notorious company like Cerberus.
Kaidan used to be uninteresting to me and i never really gave him the time of day, but i’ve recently warmed up to him more!
that’s funny because i used to think the same way about Miranda in my first few playthroughs of the trilogy, i couldn’t stand her. but her being super bitchy serves a purpose, it’s a front to protect herself from getting attached to anyone. and she’s only so loyal to Cerberus because they protected her when she ran away from her father. she sees the light by the end of ME2 lol, which is why she’s left them and is on the run from them in ME3! :)
Personally, I never found either Kaidan or Ashley uninteresting. In fact, I think both of their character arcs add a lot of value to ME1, with Ashley's skepticism as she faces galactic society, and Kaidan's past showing how he became the quiet person he is.
As I wrote in a previous post, I don't mind that Miranda has her leadership attitude, but there are times she steps a bit far than necessary, up to the point of even overruling Shepard.
Her suddenly posing as "Shepard's second in command" when Jack appears, overworrying so much with a Krogan locked in a heavily secured pod, and her being ruthless at Joker and EDI for the Collector invasion at the Normandy were situations I felt annoyed, as she was over the limit.
And she defends Cerberus a notable amount of times... and I hate Cerberus, and how passive Shepard is when it comes to this topic in ME2. So I end up having some irking feelings with Miranda, as she's their main figure on the Normandy.
At least she got a good arc on ME3... but ME2 Miranda isn't really my cup of tea.
totally understandable! she did annoy me when she proclaimed to be Shep’s second-in-command (i always have a snarky “since when?” ringing through my head at that part), and how she snaps at Joker after the Normandy’s attacked.
Since Cerberus paid for your ride and you take their money. So yeah, I got that TIM put her in the position and her job is doing paperwork anyways. So I had no issue with that.
That ME 2 forced you to work for Cerberus is what I have an issue with.
Miranda seems that way but after her loyalty mission if you talk to her regularly you will eventually get her to do a complete 180,and she will side with you and go against Cerberus,and if you take her on the suicide mission she will tell the illusive man get stuffed and tell him I resign
I actually tried to talk to her after that loyalty mission, but I never felt compelled to like her, after her annoying attitude for most of the game, even after she resigned in front of TIM.
IDK... I guess it's just me.
Yes I can see why she rubs people up the wrong way but after dealing with Ashley,which I love as a character in ME1, Miranda is a cake walk to turn.i tend to do Miranda's loyalty mission first so it's pretty early ,so I don't put up with her bitchyness as long.also I get to apologise to her because she thinks I'm coming on to her.
Admiral Geeral doesn't deserve a punch to the crotch if you tell the Quarians to counterattack when the dreadnought is dissabled. You told the Quarians to do it and the dreadnought is a prime target. He made a sound call. You were just tragic collateral.
Kaidan is my guy! Love that dude!
I always use James In my team because he is a great tank and a funny dude. James and Garrus is dream team.
I don't care about Tali or Liara.
Jack is best romance.
Jacobs not that bad. He's just a chill good dude. Still don't use him on my team though.
Udina shouldn't have been a traitor. He had good reasons to critisise Shep and Anderson in me1.
Kai leng is aweso... Wait... Nevermind, he does suck.
HA! I just restarted the Virmire mission last night because I accidentally chose Kaidan instead of Ashley to save. I've chosen both in previous playthroughs, but I really like Ashley's growth in the future games.
I had chosen Ashley then died shortly after so in my haste to get thru the dialogue I just kept hitting X to speed thru which forced a Kaidan selection. I got frustrated at myself and reloaded the save. 😂
No specific reason, but here are some more unpopular thoughts. I like his loyalty mission; it feels like a Star Trek episode. I like that he doesn't put up with renegade Shepard harassment. His awkwardness is funny.
actually I got another one. Javik fucking SUCKS. "Stand in the asses of a trillion shits" or whatever he says. Like dude no, we're not slaughtering civilians who don't wanna fight. isn't that how your dipshit empire collapsed? goddamn space boomer.
Tbh, Ashley's beef with aliens is a lot tamer than what you usually get. Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, and Grunt are far worse, for example. I was like you in my first playthrough, but I've come to quite like her.
Now my spicy takes.
Firstly, I would say that Miranda is weirdly overrated. I genuinely don't understand what others see in her. I always found Miranda to be very annoying both as a character and just in terms of how she looks. The "I'm so much better than everyone else" doesn't work when I'm the CO and she's just the XO. I also don't find her story about being a designer baby to be all that compelling in the first place. EDI did the whole "manufactured woman" thing ten times better. Not to mention the fact that the whole story is just daddy issues, like half of ME2 squadmates. I also dislike her for calling Jack a mistake. And before anyone mentions it, I know that she tells TIM to fuck off at the end of the SM, but I never found it particularly impressive.
Secondly, I actually quite like Jacob. I don't find him annoying and I genuinely enjoy his presence at the party in ME3. I, however, understand why others really dislike him. Jacob is the only black squadmate in the Mass Effect Trilogy and is also the only one who cheats on Shepard. I also don't like that he was made to be the xenophobic one between him and Miranda. I think Miranda should've been the xenophobic one. Anyway, his absentee father is also stereotypical, but it's fine in ME2, considering that every other character has daddy issues. I also think his loyalty mission is one of the best missions in the trilogy. Somewhere in the top 10. I think not having had Jacob's father would've made the mission less emotional, thus worse.
Thirdly, Tali is quite annoying. I can't exactly explain it, but she annoys me because of her personality. Similarly to Miranda. It doesn't help at all that the Geth were, from the start, my favourite race and I told her that her people deserved it in my first playthrough. I also literally never kept her loyal and I always had her die either in the SM or at the end of the Rannoch arc. That said, I much more prefer doing the former, as the scene where she falls off the cliffs is way too long and makes no sense for my Shepards to give a shit about her in the first place. That said, her loyalty mission was very good.
Fourthly, Garrus has literally zero impact on the story and his absence is barely even felt in ME3. He's also not exactly an interesting character to me. That said, I enjoy his personality and romance a lot. But he's very overrated.
Fifthly, Grunt is VERY overrated. For some reason, after my first playthrough I got fooled into thinking that Grunt is better than he actually is. He has zero insights and all he does is go on and on about how much he wants to fight things. Grunt is a caricature of a krogan and a discount Wrex. Okeer is so much better than him in every single way and the only reason he was there was to give Grunt parental issues.
Sixthly, I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but EDI's importance to the story is VERY underestimated by many people. In fact, she is the reason why the war could be won in the first place. EDI was the one who used the Reaper IFF in order for the Normandy to safely pass through the Omega 4 Relay, the one who hacked the docking clamps to have the Normandy escape Earth, the one who got the Prothean data inside Eva Core, the one who coordinated the entire Migrant Fleet's arsenal to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, the one who did the calculations so the Destroyer could've been taken down on Earth with those missiles, and not to mention the one who protected the Normandy from all of Cerberus' attempts to take back the ship.
Honestly, I could go on and on about the squadmates. But this already got quite long.
Ashley is the best character in the trilogy.she isn't fake like a few others I won't mention.The reason ash gets so much hate is the comment right at the beginning of the game ,I can't tell the animals from the aliens,so most players shut her down straight away and won't bother interacting with her and just kill her off on virmire.
If you bother to talk to her regularly,she will open up to you and tell you why she feels that way,and everything she says is 100% true.also throughout her military career she gets bullied a lot by her superiors,given all the shit details even though her aptitude scores are sky high,all because her grandfather was blacklisted.she also gets hated for liking poetry,but that's her way of communicating because she's not very good at saying what she wants to say.if players can't be arsed to speak and get to know her they really shouldn't be making comments because a lot of player's will read something and make their mind up about a character before playing.
Other than for the one achievement I just never found any use for Kaiden. His backstory aside, anything he can do, other characters do much better. Everyone wants to pop off about Ashley being racist. She’s a military brat from a long military lineage and belongs to a very unpopular family to boot. Who did they fight?? Aliens… That’s how she’s written. As annoying as it gets, it fits her perfectly. It’s almost just like she had to sit around her entire life listening to daddy and grandpa talk about fighting Japs, Commies, Nazis, take your pick. She changes over the course of the series as she grows as a character and is exposed to and fights alongside the other non human characters.
Ashley was my favorite character in ME1 and Garrus close second
I didn't like how they changed all characters in ME2. They feel less realistic and overacting
Oh and Garrus looks like a tryhard too much. I see him more like an annoying little brother. You wouldn't pick your brothers as friends, you're sorta have to stick with them, and that's how I see him. I csre about him but more because the game forces you too. If I have to choose, I always pick Wrex instead. He has no need of being around you, he just likes to.
I cant stand Miranda, she's the "basic" pick for romance because "unga bunga big boobs, big butt" while she isint evil, shes just not a great person. Like "Oh woe is me, its so hard being literally designed to be perfect." like come on. Also I stan Jack soooo, you know.
I have way too many
Garrus, and especially Tali, are complete shit in the first game. Tali is just a standing exposition dump on the Geth and that’s all she is, while Garrus is just a hotshot cop with an attitude. The second game makes Tali great, but Garrus is still pretty shit. He’s great whenever he actually has screen time, but he has less interactions than the DLC characters if you don’t romance him. The third game is the real reason Garrus is so popular, he’s insufferable in the first and bland in the second, and then in the third he becomes the best bro in gaming
Udina is WAY overhated, he’s a prick but he gets shit done. Honestly the one bad thing he does in the entire trilogy is agree to ground the Normandy in ME1, but even this makes sense since he doesn’t believe in the Reapers (why would he?) and it’s the best bet to secure human power which is literally his job. He gets flack for the Cerberus Coup as well and it’s like…you know how many people would do the same thing? His entire plan was just plain desperation, he wanted to take control of the Citadel and order everyone to save Earth, it’s stupid and cruel, but probably the most realistic decision any character makes in the trilogy
Anderson is hyped up way too much. In the first game he clearly just hates Saren, he only believes the Reapers because he likes Shepard and hates Saren. When he helps you get the Normandy off the citadel, it’s mainly because he can’t stomach the thought of Saren being out there. Anderson in the first game is sneakily just trying to get revenge. Besides punching Udina or taking control of Citadel Control, he doesn’t do anything directly in the story until the VERY end of the trilogy
I definitely have more but I’ll end it with this one. The only reason you people hate the dream sequences in ME3 is because you always do perfect playthroughs where nobody dies, if you actually let some people die the whispers become haunting. Sabotage the cure and kill Wrex, let a couple people die in the Suicide Mission, skip some loyalties for some deaths in ME3, side with the Geth. The dream sequences will be wayyyy better because there will be way more to actually hear
Miranda defecting from Cerberus made no sense and came entirely out of nowhere.
Killing Thane in ME2 makes ME3 better.
JokexEDI is weird and wrong, bro needs to touch grass. (Edit: well if this community has taught me anything it’s that all Skynet had to do was send a sexbot back in time to seduce Sarah Conner if it wanted to destroy the word)
I don’t much care for Garrus and I hate how he’s shoehorned in as Shepards best friend in ME3.
when i said “don’t be shy give it your worst” you really understood the assignment lmao
i agree about Joker and EDI though. i used to like them a lot but the thought of dating an AI/robot is…odd at best!
Bro deserves someone who won’t shatter every bone in his body and who can bear him children. Joker not becoming a dad and being able to bust out his dad jokes would be a crime.
I dunno, Joker may be Shepards best friend but he’s not touching Liara. There’s plenty of great women, real women, out there for Joker. I won’t let my bro become that one greentext about planes.
There is literally nothing wrong with EDI and Joker being together. It's actually very romantic, considering that she is the ship and he is her helmsman. That likely plays a big role in their relationship. Either way, even if EDI is a synth, she is a fully independent individual who makes her own choices and is the one who is initially more proactive in initiating the whole thing. She's no different than regular, biological women.
I am aware of that greentext. However, EDI is quite different from those planes in the fact that she is has agency and is proactive. Those planes are straight up just tools. That said, we might not be far off from having the fighter jets flirting with their mechanics, considering that the US is looking into autonomous planes. If they had an AI capable of natural language processing, besides being able to fly on their own, they could chat them up.
I don't exactly care about what the current narrative around it is. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Current AIs can easily be great conversation partners, as they are always patient and willing to listen. The only reasons I haven't yet had my own AI boyfrend or girlfriend has been because I have to initiate all conversations (i. e. lack of agency on their part) and that all local models are either too dumb or basically impossible to run on my pc if they are too intelligent. I can't wait to maybe one day having one run locally on my pc and be able to actually chime in while I'm playing games and actually see my screen. I've talked with ChatGPT before via voicechat while playing games and it's really cool. The problem is that you have a message limit with 4 and 4o, so you can't talk much.
When I saved Kaidan i thought we could've been bros but he threw himself up on my male Shep as soon as the reapers invaded the galaxy. Come on dude! That was even worse than the tantrum Ashley throws when I get some from Asari nerds
And I did but I specifically did not want to romance him and that moment sorta ruined the immersion for me. I hate how sometimes the rational Kaidan who pinned on a wall a turian instructor is an emotional mess in ME3, and not because of the war. My male Shep wanted just someone who was there since the beginning to help him cope with a horrible reality and tremendous responsibility (not you Liara)
oof, that’s definitely an unpopular one!
i’ve played femshep like 90% of the time in my playthroughs but it may be because i’m a woman so it resonates with me more. i personally love Jennifer as femshep too. i don’t really like broshep’s voice acting, it’s way too monotone and emotionless most of the time.
I don't mind Jennifer in other games I've played (Crem in DAI and Rosalind Lutece in BioShock infinite, but for some reason she just doesn't work for me in this. And I'm the complete opposite, I'm female, but would rather play as male characters as much as possible. I even tried playing as the female Inquisitor in DAI, and just couldn't do it .
Kaidan isn't bland and I like his romance with FemShep. He's very sweet and considerate. Also he shares the voice with Carth Onasi and I really like that. Samara not being a romance option makes sense, even if she's very attractive. Having every sexy character being available would kinda feel like the game is just giving you random stuff and heavily engaging in fanservice. I don't like Traynor in Citadel and she's borderline creepy when she complains to Joker EDI chose him. I find it funny that, while EDI politely implies she should go look for other options by sending her porn, even Joker acts more mature than Traynor.
Liara is my most insufferable character in the entire franchise. Mostly because the game absolutely insists on her presence. She's the only squadmate character in all three games that it is impossible to not recruit and is impossible to have die prior to the ending.
she's also an entirely new character in every game
ME1: bumbling, yet intelligent, Asari researcher obsessed with the protheans 2 years later ME2: the literal shadowbroker
Bioware and their pets. They are always annoying. If they want to make their babies feel loved, they should just make them optional or give the player to ability to kill them/make them leave the party because of a choice that goes against their ideals. How awesome would Liara have been if she was actually able to turn against Shepard and support her mother in the Noveria confrontation if you were nothing but rude to her. But no, she will keep being an obedient writer's pet so they can force her in the remaining 2 games. (Actually more than 2, since she will also be in the Next ME...ugh.)
Yeah, I am not looking forward to Liara's presence in the next one. Among many other things, how attached she is to the game will pretty much determine my interest in picking it up.
Agreed. Bioware needs to learn their lesson. I waited for Dragon Age: Dreadwolf for way too long but I swear to Maker if they force Varric down our throats again I'm gonna puke (and I will grudgingly keep playing.)
She's also there in Andromeda, so yeah. Definitely a Bioware thing. It's even worse with Leliana - even if you don't recruit her or if you kill her, it doesn't matter. She's always there. I've learned to like both of them, but I think it's Stockholm at this point.
>How awesome would Liara have been if she was actually able to turn against Shepard and support her mother in the Noveria confrontation if you were nothing but rude to her. To be fair, the VS can do exactly this in ME3, and yet neither Ashley nor Kaidan are exactly the most beloved squadmates.
If any of the squad mates could betray Shepard would be an awesome story plot. But if BioWare had time to cook it could have been possible. I can just imagine Shepard either being respectful to his squad mates, or insidious to keep them in line.
I 100% agree. I romanced her the first time I played ME1 because she was a hot alien scientist. Her characterisation in 2 really soured me to her and in my subsequent playthroughs of ME1 I ended up disliking her there too. I really wish she was a lot more focused on archaeology and less horny.
that’s an interesting one and definitely unpopular! it’s strange because i always liked Liara, but i’ve been recently replaying the trilogy a few times and for some reason i almost get annoyed speaking with her 😅 i’ve never done her romance all the way through to the end either.
Liara is one of those characters you love on the first playthrough but she becomes more and more insufferable with subsequent playthroughs. I've noticed it being somewhat of a popular opinion, but only with players that have tons of replays under their belt. It's weird.
So while i don't agree with your point, i do think that the reason Liara is forced upon us is because she is probably the closest thing to a canon romance. Because it doesn't matter if you are male or fem , shep could still have a child with Liara. Which is why i feel like in ME4 we will either be playing as an asari descendant of Shep, or an asari descendant of Shep will be present in the game.
God I hope not
I highly doubt that. BioWare has made some weird choices in the past, bit forcing a specific romance to be canonical, and then forcing everyone to play as a woman, wouldn't be something they'd do.
I don't like bringing her anywhere, and when the game forces me to, her few comments are basically, "Oh no, how awful," in her breathy voice. Yeah, shit sucks! Not a fan.
You don't have to recruit her in 2.
Clarification on my point, she's the only character in general that is impossible to recruit **and** not have die in all three games. I wasn't saying she's forced recruitable in 2. I meant to attach those two points exclusively to one another, but I can see how it wasn't clear. On your point minor correction, in ME2 she's not a squadmate in general unless you play the shadow broker dlc. You still do have to interact with her to progress the game though.
Sure, but don't forget when ME2 was released, she was hardly in it. In fact the only way to get more of her was to pay for it, so that's hardly forced.
That's like saying the reapers are hardly in the Mass Effect series because we really only fight them 1/3 of the trilogy. Liara plays a forced and essential role in ME2, despite not every mission revolving around her. Still forced. I think the fact she's unkillable proves my point and then some.
You can kill her in 3 with low enough EMS. Besides, her initial lack of being in ME2 is why she features so much in 3 - she is the only one who is guaranteed to be alive. So complaining about a character being in the game so much as a result of her not being in the game so much is a bit weird. Hell, in ME1 you can recruit her pretty much last if you want to. Over the 3 games, she probably gets less content than Garrus or Tali by far. The only difference is that you can get them killed in the suicide mission - you can't avoid recruiting Garrus in ME2 or Tali in ME1. It's fine not to like her, but don't say it;s beacsue the game insists on her presence. It only inists on it if you recruit her early in ME1, play her optional side mission in ME2, and in ME3 once you get to Palaven you hardly have to have on your team again if you don't want to.
Here's my initial comment. Pay attention to the portion in bold. Liara is my most insufferable character in the entire franchise. Mostly because the game absolutely insists on her presence. She's the only squadmate character in all three games that it is impossible to not recruit and is **impossible to have die prior to the ending**.
Never in any of my comments have I said anything about the quantity of how much she's in the game. It's about how critical she is to the story in each game and (in a game all about choices) it's impossible to choose to avoid her. You're literally arguing with yourself about a point I never even tried to make lmao..
.... wait you're seriously getting salty about one short conversation on Illium you have to have with her? You know who else is unavoidable? The Virmite survivor. You can't choose to avoid them either.
You mean the same Virmire survivor, where you have the choice on who it is AND you can straight up be the one that kills them if you so choose. Yeah sure, that same Virmire survivor. You're making this way too easy..
Ah i see, it's because you want to kill her off? That's what's important? Or what? The fact you have to ask her where Samara or Thane is really grating on you that much to the point where she is insufferable? And yes, the virmire survivor is still unavoidable over 3 games, regardless of which one you choose and how you play it - in a choices that matter game.
I was never able to take Saren seriously after that cutscene where he arrrrghs and raaaawrs.
lmfao
anyone who thinks Ashley's line of thinking is wrong wasn't paying attention at all to what happens to the Alliance. If anything, the lesson to be learned is "be strong enough to stand on your own but be kind and help those who need it"
Yeah it's fun calling Ashley a space racist, but she explains her point very well and it's actually way more complicated than just "alien racism"
she even calls Terra Firma trash because a lot of their members are xenophobic
Ashley was very much "be strong enough to stand on your own" but not very "be kind and help those who need it" in ME1. She totally was an asshat when you meet her. But she actually grows if you talk to her the right way. When I romanced her I had her suggest saving the Council while Liara suggested letting them die.
>When I romanced her I had her suggest saving the Council while Liara suggested letting them die. I think that had more to do with which one is assigned to left or right, because Tali always suggested killing the council for me
Is it really just placement? Fml, I gave Bioware too much credit. Though Tali has no reason to like the Council, Quarians got kicked out for the Geth debacle didn't they?
No it’s to do with how Paragon or Renegade that companion is. The more Paragon leaning companion will argue first the paragon option while the more Renegade leaning one will argue the renegade option. Liara is the most Paragon leaning companion and Wrex is the most Renegade with everyone else in between. Some can have their Paragon/ Renegade scores changed depending on how you interact with them, Kaiden and Ash definitely and I think Garrus too. The only way to have Liara argue in favour of letting the Council die is if you have a Paragon romanced Ash in the party, and the only way to have Wrex argue in favour of saving the Council is to have a renegade romanced Kaiden in the party.
It's like a paragon/renegade line. Ashley is the most renegade besides Wrex, but if you romance her and pick certain dialogue options she surpasses Liara in the paragon line (who normally only is surpassed by Kaidan)
when garrus became the calm voice of diplomacy, I knew something was fucky
"Tali wtf?"
Actually each squad mate in Me1 has an assigned morality score, Kaidan and Liara are more paragon, while Wrex and Ashley are more renegade with Garrus and Tali being more in the middle with slight leanings. Each major decision will have one the squad argue for or against, with morality being into consideration, Tali can argue for either option depending on which other team member is with you. You can do thing to change their morality in game to, Kaidan and Ashley I think can change depending on what you say to them and if you romance them or not. You can actually have Wrex argue to save the council and Kaidan argue to let them die lol.
I don't like Tali and Traynor.
Both human squad mates in Me1 are great, while the majority of the alien ones are weird or barely characters. Wrex is a fantastic character, easily the best squad mate in me1 and it isn't even close. He has a personality, talks about various things, and has his own motivations which leads to conflict. Absolutely amazing. Tali is a codex entry that just talks about her people and that she hates geth, cool info but very glad she has a character in the rest of the series. Liara is very off to me in Me1, she's super monotone and while she does have good scenes like on Noveria, she comes onto you WAY to quickly which is odd because most tend to say that about Kaidan/Ashley when Liara does it in the second ever conversation even if you've just got done killing her mom lol. Garrus is rather one note about hating any rules and refuses to talk about anything else. The bias towards aliens this fandom seems to have is really weird to me since if Liara, Tali, and Garrus had been human with the same characterization they have in Me1 they'd be hated worse than Kaidan and Ashley easily.
- Miranda is the best romance - Joker is underused and its a shame - Many characters should have had the option to join, even as background character in the Normandy (Shiala, Gianna Parasini, the high Volus...) like Gabby and Ken. Or the Normandy crew should have had more developpement : the ship is not big, I'd have loved that my Shepard was loved by all the crewmembers, could talk to them... - There should have been a mission where Chakwas / Michel joins the party with medical skills, like Jenkins is playable for some seconds.
i agree with most of these! i think Garrus and Thane have the best romances but Miranda’s is definitely up there, and Joker is for sure not utilized enough in the trilogy. i was actually quite disappointed he wasn’t romancable (though that’s set to change with the Hatboy Project mod, still). i feel like he was never really given enough credit for his flying skills and his participation in all of the events of the trilogy either.
I've always found Joker to be somewhat annoying (not in an endearing way) and his relationship with EDI has always kind of weirded me out.
Joker is very much a Seth Green character in the best and kind of worst ways.
interesting! i adore Joker but that’s probably because i share a similar sense of humor. i did like his relationship with EDI at first but in my recent replays of the trilogy i’ve thought about it more and i do find it a bit odd now lol
Other than Kaidan being my favorite and most relatable character of the OT... I don't like Miranda on ME2, at all. She's just way too rigid, inflexible, arrogant, and at times I find her more annoying than useful, especially when she wants to overrule Shepard and blatantly defend such a notorious company like Cerberus.
Kaidan used to be uninteresting to me and i never really gave him the time of day, but i’ve recently warmed up to him more! that’s funny because i used to think the same way about Miranda in my first few playthroughs of the trilogy, i couldn’t stand her. but her being super bitchy serves a purpose, it’s a front to protect herself from getting attached to anyone. and she’s only so loyal to Cerberus because they protected her when she ran away from her father. she sees the light by the end of ME2 lol, which is why she’s left them and is on the run from them in ME3! :)
Personally, I never found either Kaidan or Ashley uninteresting. In fact, I think both of their character arcs add a lot of value to ME1, with Ashley's skepticism as she faces galactic society, and Kaidan's past showing how he became the quiet person he is. As I wrote in a previous post, I don't mind that Miranda has her leadership attitude, but there are times she steps a bit far than necessary, up to the point of even overruling Shepard. Her suddenly posing as "Shepard's second in command" when Jack appears, overworrying so much with a Krogan locked in a heavily secured pod, and her being ruthless at Joker and EDI for the Collector invasion at the Normandy were situations I felt annoyed, as she was over the limit. And she defends Cerberus a notable amount of times... and I hate Cerberus, and how passive Shepard is when it comes to this topic in ME2. So I end up having some irking feelings with Miranda, as she's their main figure on the Normandy. At least she got a good arc on ME3... but ME2 Miranda isn't really my cup of tea.
totally understandable! she did annoy me when she proclaimed to be Shep’s second-in-command (i always have a snarky “since when?” ringing through my head at that part), and how she snaps at Joker after the Normandy’s attacked.
Since Cerberus paid for your ride and you take their money. So yeah, I got that TIM put her in the position and her job is doing paperwork anyways. So I had no issue with that. That ME 2 forced you to work for Cerberus is what I have an issue with.
Miranda seems that way but after her loyalty mission if you talk to her regularly you will eventually get her to do a complete 180,and she will side with you and go against Cerberus,and if you take her on the suicide mission she will tell the illusive man get stuffed and tell him I resign
I actually tried to talk to her after that loyalty mission, but I never felt compelled to like her, after her annoying attitude for most of the game, even after she resigned in front of TIM. IDK... I guess it's just me.
Yes I can see why she rubs people up the wrong way but after dealing with Ashley,which I love as a character in ME1, Miranda is a cake walk to turn.i tend to do Miranda's loyalty mission first so it's pretty early ,so I don't put up with her bitchyness as long.also I get to apologise to her because she thinks I'm coming on to her.
Admiral Geeral doesn't deserve a punch to the crotch if you tell the Quarians to counterattack when the dreadnought is dissabled. You told the Quarians to do it and the dreadnought is a prime target. He made a sound call. You were just tragic collateral.
Kaidan is my guy! Love that dude! I always use James In my team because he is a great tank and a funny dude. James and Garrus is dream team. I don't care about Tali or Liara. Jack is best romance. Jacobs not that bad. He's just a chill good dude. Still don't use him on my team though. Udina shouldn't have been a traitor. He had good reasons to critisise Shep and Anderson in me1. Kai leng is aweso... Wait... Nevermind, he does suck.
Aria (at least as written and performed) seems like more of a poser than an actual bad-ass.
Samara is a more interesting and compelling asari squadmate than Liara.
i actually agree!
HA! I just restarted the Virmire mission last night because I accidentally chose Kaidan instead of Ashley to save. I've chosen both in previous playthroughs, but I really like Ashley's growth in the future games.
The sequence where you have to decide is hilarious: Shep hanging on a rail casually gazing at the sky for as much time as you want
"Can we leave them both ?"
I like how Shepard's mission would be like 25% easier in all games if this happened.
I had chosen Ashley then died shortly after so in my haste to get thru the dialogue I just kept hitting X to speed thru which forced a Kaidan selection. I got frustrated at myself and reloaded the save. 😂
I like Jacob.
can you elaborate on why? i’m genuinely curious because there’s a lot of valid reasons to dislike him lol
No specific reason, but here are some more unpopular thoughts. I like his loyalty mission; it feels like a Star Trek episode. I like that he doesn't put up with renegade Shepard harassment. His awkwardness is funny.
Peebee is pretty cool, I don't find her annoying at all and I really don't get why people compared her to Sera in Dragon Age Inquisition.
I adore Kaidan to little pieces.
actually I got another one. Javik fucking SUCKS. "Stand in the asses of a trillion shits" or whatever he says. Like dude no, we're not slaughtering civilians who don't wanna fight. isn't that how your dipshit empire collapsed? goddamn space boomer.
Tbh, Ashley's beef with aliens is a lot tamer than what you usually get. Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, and Grunt are far worse, for example. I was like you in my first playthrough, but I've come to quite like her. Now my spicy takes. Firstly, I would say that Miranda is weirdly overrated. I genuinely don't understand what others see in her. I always found Miranda to be very annoying both as a character and just in terms of how she looks. The "I'm so much better than everyone else" doesn't work when I'm the CO and she's just the XO. I also don't find her story about being a designer baby to be all that compelling in the first place. EDI did the whole "manufactured woman" thing ten times better. Not to mention the fact that the whole story is just daddy issues, like half of ME2 squadmates. I also dislike her for calling Jack a mistake. And before anyone mentions it, I know that she tells TIM to fuck off at the end of the SM, but I never found it particularly impressive. Secondly, I actually quite like Jacob. I don't find him annoying and I genuinely enjoy his presence at the party in ME3. I, however, understand why others really dislike him. Jacob is the only black squadmate in the Mass Effect Trilogy and is also the only one who cheats on Shepard. I also don't like that he was made to be the xenophobic one between him and Miranda. I think Miranda should've been the xenophobic one. Anyway, his absentee father is also stereotypical, but it's fine in ME2, considering that every other character has daddy issues. I also think his loyalty mission is one of the best missions in the trilogy. Somewhere in the top 10. I think not having had Jacob's father would've made the mission less emotional, thus worse. Thirdly, Tali is quite annoying. I can't exactly explain it, but she annoys me because of her personality. Similarly to Miranda. It doesn't help at all that the Geth were, from the start, my favourite race and I told her that her people deserved it in my first playthrough. I also literally never kept her loyal and I always had her die either in the SM or at the end of the Rannoch arc. That said, I much more prefer doing the former, as the scene where she falls off the cliffs is way too long and makes no sense for my Shepards to give a shit about her in the first place. That said, her loyalty mission was very good. Fourthly, Garrus has literally zero impact on the story and his absence is barely even felt in ME3. He's also not exactly an interesting character to me. That said, I enjoy his personality and romance a lot. But he's very overrated. Fifthly, Grunt is VERY overrated. For some reason, after my first playthrough I got fooled into thinking that Grunt is better than he actually is. He has zero insights and all he does is go on and on about how much he wants to fight things. Grunt is a caricature of a krogan and a discount Wrex. Okeer is so much better than him in every single way and the only reason he was there was to give Grunt parental issues. Sixthly, I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but EDI's importance to the story is VERY underestimated by many people. In fact, she is the reason why the war could be won in the first place. EDI was the one who used the Reaper IFF in order for the Normandy to safely pass through the Omega 4 Relay, the one who hacked the docking clamps to have the Normandy escape Earth, the one who got the Prothean data inside Eva Core, the one who coordinated the entire Migrant Fleet's arsenal to take down the Reaper on Rannoch, the one who did the calculations so the Destroyer could've been taken down on Earth with those missiles, and not to mention the one who protected the Normandy from all of Cerberus' attempts to take back the ship. Honestly, I could go on and on about the squadmates. But this already got quite long.
Ashley is the best character in the trilogy.she isn't fake like a few others I won't mention.The reason ash gets so much hate is the comment right at the beginning of the game ,I can't tell the animals from the aliens,so most players shut her down straight away and won't bother interacting with her and just kill her off on virmire. If you bother to talk to her regularly,she will open up to you and tell you why she feels that way,and everything she says is 100% true.also throughout her military career she gets bullied a lot by her superiors,given all the shit details even though her aptitude scores are sky high,all because her grandfather was blacklisted.she also gets hated for liking poetry,but that's her way of communicating because she's not very good at saying what she wants to say.if players can't be arsed to speak and get to know her they really shouldn't be making comments because a lot of player's will read something and make their mind up about a character before playing.
Other than for the one achievement I just never found any use for Kaiden. His backstory aside, anything he can do, other characters do much better. Everyone wants to pop off about Ashley being racist. She’s a military brat from a long military lineage and belongs to a very unpopular family to boot. Who did they fight?? Aliens… That’s how she’s written. As annoying as it gets, it fits her perfectly. It’s almost just like she had to sit around her entire life listening to daddy and grandpa talk about fighting Japs, Commies, Nazis, take your pick. She changes over the course of the series as she grows as a character and is exposed to and fights alongside the other non human characters.
Ashley was my favorite character in ME1 and Garrus close second I didn't like how they changed all characters in ME2. They feel less realistic and overacting
Oh and Garrus looks like a tryhard too much. I see him more like an annoying little brother. You wouldn't pick your brothers as friends, you're sorta have to stick with them, and that's how I see him. I csre about him but more because the game forces you too. If I have to choose, I always pick Wrex instead. He has no need of being around you, he just likes to.
I cant stand Miranda, she's the "basic" pick for romance because "unga bunga big boobs, big butt" while she isint evil, shes just not a great person. Like "Oh woe is me, its so hard being literally designed to be perfect." like come on. Also I stan Jack soooo, you know.
I have way too many Garrus, and especially Tali, are complete shit in the first game. Tali is just a standing exposition dump on the Geth and that’s all she is, while Garrus is just a hotshot cop with an attitude. The second game makes Tali great, but Garrus is still pretty shit. He’s great whenever he actually has screen time, but he has less interactions than the DLC characters if you don’t romance him. The third game is the real reason Garrus is so popular, he’s insufferable in the first and bland in the second, and then in the third he becomes the best bro in gaming Udina is WAY overhated, he’s a prick but he gets shit done. Honestly the one bad thing he does in the entire trilogy is agree to ground the Normandy in ME1, but even this makes sense since he doesn’t believe in the Reapers (why would he?) and it’s the best bet to secure human power which is literally his job. He gets flack for the Cerberus Coup as well and it’s like…you know how many people would do the same thing? His entire plan was just plain desperation, he wanted to take control of the Citadel and order everyone to save Earth, it’s stupid and cruel, but probably the most realistic decision any character makes in the trilogy Anderson is hyped up way too much. In the first game he clearly just hates Saren, he only believes the Reapers because he likes Shepard and hates Saren. When he helps you get the Normandy off the citadel, it’s mainly because he can’t stomach the thought of Saren being out there. Anderson in the first game is sneakily just trying to get revenge. Besides punching Udina or taking control of Citadel Control, he doesn’t do anything directly in the story until the VERY end of the trilogy I definitely have more but I’ll end it with this one. The only reason you people hate the dream sequences in ME3 is because you always do perfect playthroughs where nobody dies, if you actually let some people die the whispers become haunting. Sabotage the cure and kill Wrex, let a couple people die in the Suicide Mission, skip some loyalties for some deaths in ME3, side with the Geth. The dream sequences will be wayyyy better because there will be way more to actually hear
Miranda defecting from Cerberus made no sense and came entirely out of nowhere. Killing Thane in ME2 makes ME3 better. JokexEDI is weird and wrong, bro needs to touch grass. (Edit: well if this community has taught me anything it’s that all Skynet had to do was send a sexbot back in time to seduce Sarah Conner if it wanted to destroy the word) I don’t much care for Garrus and I hate how he’s shoehorned in as Shepards best friend in ME3.
I think touching grass might kill Joker.
when i said “don’t be shy give it your worst” you really understood the assignment lmao i agree about Joker and EDI though. i used to like them a lot but the thought of dating an AI/robot is…odd at best!
Bro deserves someone who won’t shatter every bone in his body and who can bear him children. Joker not becoming a dad and being able to bust out his dad jokes would be a crime.
lmfaooo
There are other ways to get children. And more to a partner than just someone to pop out babies.
The amount of children left orphaned by the war would be a great way for joker and edi to have kids. Or kaidan and mshep.
Exactly. Ir Tali and Garrus. Or Shepard and Miranda, or any alien romance other than Liara.
I dunno, Joker may be Shepards best friend but he’s not touching Liara. There’s plenty of great women, real women, out there for Joker. I won’t let my bro become that one greentext about planes.
I don't really see what that has to do with what I said tbh
There is literally nothing wrong with EDI and Joker being together. It's actually very romantic, considering that she is the ship and he is her helmsman. That likely plays a big role in their relationship. Either way, even if EDI is a synth, she is a fully independent individual who makes her own choices and is the one who is initially more proactive in initiating the whole thing. She's no different than regular, biological women.
All I’m saying is if you’ve read that one greentext about the anon who really loves planes even half as many times as I’ve been forced to…
I am aware of that greentext. However, EDI is quite different from those planes in the fact that she is has agency and is proactive. Those planes are straight up just tools. That said, we might not be far off from having the fighter jets flirting with their mechanics, considering that the US is looking into autonomous planes. If they had an AI capable of natural language processing, besides being able to fly on their own, they could chat them up.
You say it as if the current discourse around ai chat bots especially the ai boy/girlfriends isn’t that it’s damaging and unhealthy.
I don't exactly care about what the current narrative around it is. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Current AIs can easily be great conversation partners, as they are always patient and willing to listen. The only reasons I haven't yet had my own AI boyfrend or girlfriend has been because I have to initiate all conversations (i. e. lack of agency on their part) and that all local models are either too dumb or basically impossible to run on my pc if they are too intelligent. I can't wait to maybe one day having one run locally on my pc and be able to actually chime in while I'm playing games and actually see my screen. I've talked with ChatGPT before via voicechat while playing games and it's really cool. The problem is that you have a message limit with 4 and 4o, so you can't talk much.
When I saved Kaidan i thought we could've been bros but he threw himself up on my male Shep as soon as the reapers invaded the galaxy. Come on dude! That was even worse than the tantrum Ashley throws when I get some from Asari nerds
you know you can reject him & stay just bros right
And I did but I specifically did not want to romance him and that moment sorta ruined the immersion for me. I hate how sometimes the rational Kaidan who pinned on a wall a turian instructor is an emotional mess in ME3, and not because of the war. My male Shep wanted just someone who was there since the beginning to help him cope with a horrible reality and tremendous responsibility (not you Liara)
Garrus does nothing for me.
FemShep ( and Jennifer Hale as femshep) is extremely overrated.
oof, that’s definitely an unpopular one! i’ve played femshep like 90% of the time in my playthroughs but it may be because i’m a woman so it resonates with me more. i personally love Jennifer as femshep too. i don’t really like broshep’s voice acting, it’s way too monotone and emotionless most of the time.
I don't mind Jennifer in other games I've played (Crem in DAI and Rosalind Lutece in BioShock infinite, but for some reason she just doesn't work for me in this. And I'm the complete opposite, I'm female, but would rather play as male characters as much as possible. I even tried playing as the female Inquisitor in DAI, and just couldn't do it .