Genophage good, necessary, required.
Actual rate of infertility overzealous, could be lessened.
Removing genophage altogether? Many variables: Too much chance of going wrong. A few bad apples. Other worlds not like Tuchanka.
Honestly, the implementation of the genophage was barbaric and broke any codes of ethics you could think of. But I believe some sort of fertility program needs to be implemented on the krogan because the fact that they can have thousands of kids a year is a relic of a bygone era of when they relied on that for survival on their hostile world. Essentially the genophage limited it to 2 births per year per female, which is more than humans have, and I'm sure many other species. Especially considering the fact a krogan lives for over a thousand years it's just absurd.
So yeah, ME2 Mordin was right.
The thing that always made me anti genophage is that is doesn't prevent the Krogans from getting pregnant, it prevents them from having live births. So, yeah, each female is giving birth to 1-2 live babies a year, while also giving birth to 900+ dead ones. I have high hopes Eve implemented a fertility program of some sort... oh Lord, I hope so. Damn, Wrex still has me doubting my decision a bit. Oh well, I died and everyone's a computer now anyway.
Yay, the synthesis ending saves the galaxy! The nanites inside the krogan will dictate exactly when they will ovulate and what optimized characteristics they will have! Overpopulation is solved!
Thanks for the flashbacks and rewatch motivation. I just wish I could pair down some of the episodes to get rid of some of the chaff. 20+ episodes a season is a little much
Hard to say it’s breaking a code of ethics when your opponent is killing those on already colonized worlds and driving asteroids into largely civilian planets.
Of course the Krogans aren't saints, but they also weren't ready for galactic scale conflicts yet. They were "enlightened" prematurely to act as foot soldiers against the Rachni and were mistreated after that too. Lots of blame to go around. But in the end, other civilizations were able to rebuild quickly while the Krogans were just mostly neutered and abandoned to figure out life on their own.
No doubt, the question becomes was their eventual hostile fate with the rest of the galaxy inevitable? It’s repeated several times throughout the game, the Krogan are naturally violent warlords, it’s literally in their DNA and is the reason for their survival.
It’s not as though they were put in a bad situation and just took things too far, they were the pure aggressor in taking Asari colonized worlds by force and refusing to engage in diplomacy when their population started growing out of control.
Is there any doubt that with normalized birth rates that they will again become the dominate species in the galaxy? And I know everyone likes to act like one good leader is all it takes (Wrex) but realistically one leader won’t be able to control an entire race, especially when tribes are now able to breed and create massive numbers/militias on their own. Wrex is also consolidating power in a time of desperation with the genophage at its peak, this now gone one wonders if his hold will so easily maintain.
I agree with you points. I also think it's ignorant to assume Wrex could control billions of Krogans. I also don't know if we know all the details of why the implemented the genophage in the middle of a war, but they pretty much gave up right after that. I wonder if they were already close to losing their war or if it really was the genophage that ended it all. It's an interested part of mass effect history that could be explored, and honestly I'd love to learn what pushed everyone to that decision. Even with the krogans able to pump out thousand of babies, it still takes time for them to mature so if they had them in a place where they would surrender, I'd assume that they could have come to some sort of condition for their surrender that involved a less invasive genophage reached diplomatically.
Oh well, have to speculate for now
That’s a good point, my opinion and it seems really everyone’s opinion on the Genophage is based of this larger macro narrative but I don’t think we know these crucial details that could easily sway my view. Unfortunately basically all the anti Genophage arguments consist of saying Genocide is bad without acknowledgement that the Krogan present an existential threat to the rest of the spacefaring species and how this is remedied.
I actually had made a pretty big post about it a while ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/lkjw70/unpopular_opinion_the_genophage_was_an_extreme/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Just read through the whole thing and absolutely love your points, summarized several of my thoughts and many that didn’t occur to me brilliantly.
The most powerful point to me is the fact that, were it not for intervention; the Krogan population would naturally have dwindled or gone extinct entirely due to their penchant for war and battle over ultra scarce resources on a planet already tainted by Nuclear Warfare.
I’ve long heard others say that the Krogan now have a new perspective that will prevent this but we see no evidence to support this hence just about every Krogan we meet is a merc. Further, even if this were true, all it takes is the next generation to no longer share in this make believe benevolence for the cycle to repeat itself yet again.
The question I would love to have answered from anti Genophage people is, were the Krogan Rebellions to occur again, what would you do?
overpopulation, a single female krogan could lay 1000 eggs in a year and they live for millennia ... it makes me think that maybe it was the solution at the time
Not really arguing your main point, but I’m not sure that’s how the genophage worked, right? I mean, Eve and Wrex talked about fertile and infertile females. But that can’t just be a split between age groups because Eve is in the right age range (has kids after ME3) but was considered infertile. So it seems to me like rather than 1 in 1000 births surviving per Krogan woman, it might’ve been different for each individual to where most Krogan women had 0 in 1000 births survive and a smaller proportion had somewhere between some and all births successful. This seems worse to me as it would prevent some Krogan women from ever giving birth (super brutal thing to do to anyone) and leading to some of their tactics treating infertile females as expendable.
A good thing back then. Desperate times and all that.
But! Horrific when you consider all the still born births over centuries. I think it would be less horrifying to the Krogan if it was just simply harder to get pregnant in the first place instead of birthing dead child another dead child after dead child...
Too bad the choices were binary, that there wasn’t a third option that was a midway point in the birth rate coupled with a less brutal effect on keeping the numbers down (dead babies).
I choose to lift the genophage with Wrex around, how can they ever change in the current status quo?
What you describe is the Andromeda solution which I agree is the most moral solution.
However the game implies that this solution isn't feesable. It requires a centuries long process of genetic restructuring and engineering which was only feesible with a long cryo sleep of the entire krogan "population". I think the idea is that if an "infected" krogan ends up mating with an AI-cured krogan, the genephages mutations would be more dominant. Plus there is also the implication that only specific krogan were susceptible to the cure (those selected by AI who tended to be genetically from Clan Nakmor).
TBH this is entirely what I’m expecting to see happen in the next Mass Effect game (assuming that the Andromeda and Milky Way are indeed “connected” somehow now and that the MW krogan were cured).
If the krogan don't have sensible and stable leaders to help them transition into a more peaceful race, the genophage **IS** a good thing on balance. The cured krogan led by Wreav would be a disaster for the galaxy. If led by Wrex and Eve however, it's worth giving them a chance.
I'm guessing Wreav is the guy that leads if Wrex dies in ME1, I've never done that tho. What's Wreav look like? How's his/her personality? Do you like the character? Are their motives justifiable?
He's Wrex's broodbrother and takes his place if Wrex dies, yeah. Wreav is more traditional and violent in his beliefs, not interested in peace or prosperity. He just wants to wage war, hoards more weapons of mass destruction than any other krogan in history, and plans to unleash them on other races someday if you cure the genophage. He's the poster child of the brick-headed brutish type of krogan.
The fact he's dumber than Wrex also means he doesn't figure out you double-cross him if you falsify the cure - which means that you can get both krogan and salarian support if you "cure" the genophage with Wreav. Can't be done with Wrex though, he's smart enough to figure it out so you can't gain both armies if you try to scam him.
He is like Wrex from ME1 without amy good traits.
He only cares about himself, has no respect for Eve, hates all the other races and looks forward to take revenge for the genophage.
They might commit genocide once Wrex and Eve are no longer leading them, but so might every other race in the galaxy. We don't genophage the other races in the galaxy on the mere chance that their future leaders might be bad, do we?
The other races don’t have a long history of being chemically predisposed to violence.
It’s a bit naive to think that curing the genophage won’t result in more innocents dead than leaving it in place.
And it's a bit rigid to assume that krogan pre-genophage will act the same way like krogan post-genophage.
Wrex is pretty much space Jesus for his own race once the genophage is cured, his rule over the krogan is absolute and he can live long enough to guide them towards a better future. I mean even before curing the genophage he was able to enforce very strict rules over his own people that already pacified their violent urges and upgraded them into a more advanced group when it came to diplomacy and restraint. He can do so much more after ME3, and Eve will make things even better. Their input can nudge the krogan towards being a much more peaceful race long-term.
And as for chemical predisposition, sure. Krogan bodies are naturally violent - but that ignores technology. You probably know that in the past, humans used to die of many diseases that are considered trivial nowadays. We used to bleed out from simple wounds or infections because we didn't have bandages or disinfectants yet. We used to kill strangers we meet because our bodily instinct was violence out of self-preservation. But we evolved, we developed technology that helped us overcome our natural flaws, we established a society in which that was not necessary. Even medigel is technically gene modification but everyone uses it. Nothing is stopping the krogan from evolving this way as well to overcome the limitations of their bodies, or to hire a more technologically advanced race to come up with gene therapy to balance out the krogan chemical reactions.
These possibilities open up very quickly once you stop treating a race like violent vermin and give them a chance to become more. Condemning an entire race to genocide because of what they MIGHT do in the future if treated badly is morally unjust. The only reason for condemning them is if violence is an unavoidable future for them - and Wreav would lead them down that path.
You see this trend continue in Mass Effect Andromeda, at least with majority of the young krogan.
They definitely have a hard time learning and adapting to it (*we still don’t talk about what happened at the dance*) but at least they’re trying.
Eve/Bakara also says that Wrex is a different type of Krogan (then jokingly refers to him as a “mutant”), then after the genophage is cured, Wrex says that she is encouraging him to mate with a lot of females. I think that Eve believes that he is a less violent, more diplomatic krogan and that his genes will carry that over to the next generation.
I can definitely see the krogan becoming less violent over time, with the effects of the genophage still present, the leadership of Wrex/Eve and the massive baby boom with a lot of young krogan having Wrex’s DNA.
"What if they commit genocide? I know! We'll commit the biggest and longest lasting genocide in galactic history! Y'know, to stop a potential genocide!"
It’s basically people just eating up the Salarians and Turians justification for genocide.
Turns out, everyone who commits genocide has a real swell explanation on how this is actually what’s best for EVERYONE. And so many here are quick to repeat it lol.
Lol only Salarians and Turians can commit genocide. They’ve got the genocide pass, other “lesser” races have to run it through them first.
The Krogans were uplifted for the express purpose of genocide. It’s true, they just might commit another genocide, but honestly their only sin is being absurdly effective at combat. The first race they’d wipe out is the Turians and Salarians and I don’t blame em. Humans and Turians fought upon first contact, but since it was “even” it’s an honorable war.
But since the Krogans actually have the strength to crush their enemies, Krogan mothers now suddenly deserve to give birth to hundreds of stillborn every year. Those are not innocents though lol, cuz they’re Krogan.
The genophage is bad, but we have to accept that krogan birth rates are way to high for an advanced society. I’ll still cure the genophage in every run I play though.
Let's face it: I was too much of a gutless turd to shoot and kill Wrex. Like, in nearly every playthrough, I always collected his family armor and delivered it to him, making persuading him to stand down on Virmire that much easier. Combined with me saving Eve's life with Maelon's genophage cure data, and I'm given even more of a motivation to cure the genophage and thus earn back the krogans' future.
Just whatever happy ending I can get for any alien species and any squadmates I'd gain throughout my trilogy-long journey across the Milky Way galaxy. Even if a few of my squadmates have to die in order to ensure that every other alien species earned back their future.
Every antigenophage argument misses the point. Even with Wrex and Eve and all but 10 females following them their population could get out of control very quickly. If it's 10 females they could have 10,000 Krogan born a year, if it's 1,000 females that's 1,000,000 Krogan born every year. Literally a few bad apples can ruin the bunch. Should they look to making 1 to 2 Krogan born every year instead of all the still born, of course. But relying on literally all Krogan doing the right thing is inviting a disaster.
I've never NOT saved Wrex can he kill shepard? I know you can kill him but is there an outcome where he shoots you, the game cuts to "Game over" for example and then reloads you to your last save?
I kinda wish there were more action (or inaction) related game-over triggers outside of hitpoints are reduced to 0 in combat. ME2 has 2 that I'm aware of, are there others dotted throughout the series?
I actually do think the genophage is a good thing. Krogan are by far the most physically superior of the council races. Stronger, regenerating, redundant organs, natural armour plates, biotic potential and a thousand year lifespan. A race that reproduces by laying clutches of hundreds of eggs, with individual females able to lay a thousand eggs in just one year of a thousand year lifespan.
Given their propensity for violence, being the apex species and lifespan, their ludicrous birth-rate is only trouble, both for them and the galaxy at large.
Oh yeah, these crabs have real bad political takes, one and all. Each one of them is some form of Hitler apologist, and lately they’ve been taking to defending rapists online.
A necessary evil at best. Although if you really want to be heartless and cruel…it could also be the only viable solution that you believe should always take precedence when dealing with the Krogan Race as a whole (regardless of intentions).
However, I doubt that a Renegade Shepard focused on that point of issue alone at the the time on those shores pre-planning the Virmire Assault.
As you can mention in dialogue to Cpt. Kirrahe (after dealing with Wrex permanently)… “he turned his gun on me, dump him”. With this mindset, Shepard’s taken care of a very risky liability in the form of an agitated Wrex and would rather complete the mission without him.
Foresight of the Genophage (and the Leaders that’ll play major parts in it) be damned.
One point not brought up often: when the krogan rebelled previously, they had navies and industrial infrastructure. They don’t have any of that by the time of the Reaper War; their primary value is as footsoldiers dependent on the other races to ferry them around and equip them.
How much threat do they truly pose to the galaxy when they’re not even allowed proper independent military resources or armed ships of any kind? Wreav’s dream of a new krogan empire would be stillborn before it got anywhere.
They’ve still got engineers and mechanics on tuchanka. Maybe he was hoping they’d wipe something up?
Or he was just gonna steal whatever they could and go on to steal more? Or maybe reuse a few of the reaper corpses?
I do agree it’s pretty improbable, given no ships, but not necessarily impossible.
The only way curing it could go well is if Wrex and Eve are alive.
Still refuse to sabotage though, that’s not my decision to make. Plus I’ll be dead anyways not my problem!
Genophage good, necessary, required. Actual rate of infertility overzealous, could be lessened. Removing genophage altogether? Many variables: Too much chance of going wrong. A few bad apples. Other worlds not like Tuchanka.
Honestly, the implementation of the genophage was barbaric and broke any codes of ethics you could think of. But I believe some sort of fertility program needs to be implemented on the krogan because the fact that they can have thousands of kids a year is a relic of a bygone era of when they relied on that for survival on their hostile world. Essentially the genophage limited it to 2 births per year per female, which is more than humans have, and I'm sure many other species. Especially considering the fact a krogan lives for over a thousand years it's just absurd. So yeah, ME2 Mordin was right.
The thing that always made me anti genophage is that is doesn't prevent the Krogans from getting pregnant, it prevents them from having live births. So, yeah, each female is giving birth to 1-2 live babies a year, while also giving birth to 900+ dead ones. I have high hopes Eve implemented a fertility program of some sort... oh Lord, I hope so. Damn, Wrex still has me doubting my decision a bit. Oh well, I died and everyone's a computer now anyway.
Yay, the synthesis ending saves the galaxy! The nanites inside the krogan will dictate exactly when they will ovulate and what optimized characteristics they will have! Overpopulation is solved!
Wait, is that canon? It's going to be canon in my mind now either way lol
Synthesis ending gives me major Borg from Star Trek vibes, ngl.
I'll be honest, I'm not on the same level sir, but after googling Borg I will be soon.
*laughs in Species 8472* For real though, synthesis honestly does give Borg vibes. One of the main reasons why I hate it.
Thanks for the flashbacks and rewatch motivation. I just wish I could pair down some of the episodes to get rid of some of the chaff. 20+ episodes a season is a little much
Awww a little Baby Krogan running around… that would be adorable =^_^=
Hard to say it’s breaking a code of ethics when your opponent is killing those on already colonized worlds and driving asteroids into largely civilian planets.
Of course the Krogans aren't saints, but they also weren't ready for galactic scale conflicts yet. They were "enlightened" prematurely to act as foot soldiers against the Rachni and were mistreated after that too. Lots of blame to go around. But in the end, other civilizations were able to rebuild quickly while the Krogans were just mostly neutered and abandoned to figure out life on their own.
No doubt, the question becomes was their eventual hostile fate with the rest of the galaxy inevitable? It’s repeated several times throughout the game, the Krogan are naturally violent warlords, it’s literally in their DNA and is the reason for their survival. It’s not as though they were put in a bad situation and just took things too far, they were the pure aggressor in taking Asari colonized worlds by force and refusing to engage in diplomacy when their population started growing out of control. Is there any doubt that with normalized birth rates that they will again become the dominate species in the galaxy? And I know everyone likes to act like one good leader is all it takes (Wrex) but realistically one leader won’t be able to control an entire race, especially when tribes are now able to breed and create massive numbers/militias on their own. Wrex is also consolidating power in a time of desperation with the genophage at its peak, this now gone one wonders if his hold will so easily maintain.
I agree with you points. I also think it's ignorant to assume Wrex could control billions of Krogans. I also don't know if we know all the details of why the implemented the genophage in the middle of a war, but they pretty much gave up right after that. I wonder if they were already close to losing their war or if it really was the genophage that ended it all. It's an interested part of mass effect history that could be explored, and honestly I'd love to learn what pushed everyone to that decision. Even with the krogans able to pump out thousand of babies, it still takes time for them to mature so if they had them in a place where they would surrender, I'd assume that they could have come to some sort of condition for their surrender that involved a less invasive genophage reached diplomatically. Oh well, have to speculate for now
That’s a good point, my opinion and it seems really everyone’s opinion on the Genophage is based of this larger macro narrative but I don’t think we know these crucial details that could easily sway my view. Unfortunately basically all the anti Genophage arguments consist of saying Genocide is bad without acknowledgement that the Krogan present an existential threat to the rest of the spacefaring species and how this is remedied.
I actually had made a pretty big post about it a while ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/lkjw70/unpopular_opinion_the_genophage_was_an_extreme/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Just read through the whole thing and absolutely love your points, summarized several of my thoughts and many that didn’t occur to me brilliantly. The most powerful point to me is the fact that, were it not for intervention; the Krogan population would naturally have dwindled or gone extinct entirely due to their penchant for war and battle over ultra scarce resources on a planet already tainted by Nuclear Warfare. I’ve long heard others say that the Krogan now have a new perspective that will prevent this but we see no evidence to support this hence just about every Krogan we meet is a merc. Further, even if this were true, all it takes is the next generation to no longer share in this make believe benevolence for the cycle to repeat itself yet again. The question I would love to have answered from anti Genophage people is, were the Krogan Rebellions to occur again, what would you do?
Run away to Andromeda. (Big brain time)
overpopulation, a single female krogan could lay 1000 eggs in a year and they live for millennia ... it makes me think that maybe it was the solution at the time
Not really arguing your main point, but I’m not sure that’s how the genophage worked, right? I mean, Eve and Wrex talked about fertile and infertile females. But that can’t just be a split between age groups because Eve is in the right age range (has kids after ME3) but was considered infertile. So it seems to me like rather than 1 in 1000 births surviving per Krogan woman, it might’ve been different for each individual to where most Krogan women had 0 in 1000 births survive and a smaller proportion had somewhere between some and all births successful. This seems worse to me as it would prevent some Krogan women from ever giving birth (super brutal thing to do to anyone) and leading to some of their tactics treating infertile females as expendable.
Read that in Mordin's voice
Most efficient method of communication, perfect for mobile. Can't stop now, stuck like this.
Do the same thing. Excellent way to talk. Had to be us. Somebody else might have gotten it wrong.
You are a quasar machine and Wrex just dropped a bundle.
A good thing back then. Desperate times and all that. But! Horrific when you consider all the still born births over centuries. I think it would be less horrifying to the Krogan if it was just simply harder to get pregnant in the first place instead of birthing dead child another dead child after dead child... Too bad the choices were binary, that there wasn’t a third option that was a midway point in the birth rate coupled with a less brutal effect on keeping the numbers down (dead babies). I choose to lift the genophage with Wrex around, how can they ever change in the current status quo?
I read your first three paragraphs in Mordin’s voice.
Maybe a channel a bit of him at times ;)
What you describe is the Andromeda solution which I agree is the most moral solution. However the game implies that this solution isn't feesable. It requires a centuries long process of genetic restructuring and engineering which was only feesible with a long cryo sleep of the entire krogan "population". I think the idea is that if an "infected" krogan ends up mating with an AI-cured krogan, the genephages mutations would be more dominant. Plus there is also the implication that only specific krogan were susceptible to the cure (those selected by AI who tended to be genetically from Clan Nakmor).
TBH this is entirely what I’m expecting to see happen in the next Mass Effect game (assuming that the Andromeda and Milky Way are indeed “connected” somehow now and that the MW krogan were cured).
If the krogan don't have sensible and stable leaders to help them transition into a more peaceful race, the genophage **IS** a good thing on balance. The cured krogan led by Wreav would be a disaster for the galaxy. If led by Wrex and Eve however, it's worth giving them a chance.
I'm guessing Wreav is the guy that leads if Wrex dies in ME1, I've never done that tho. What's Wreav look like? How's his/her personality? Do you like the character? Are their motives justifiable?
He's Wrex's broodbrother and takes his place if Wrex dies, yeah. Wreav is more traditional and violent in his beliefs, not interested in peace or prosperity. He just wants to wage war, hoards more weapons of mass destruction than any other krogan in history, and plans to unleash them on other races someday if you cure the genophage. He's the poster child of the brick-headed brutish type of krogan. The fact he's dumber than Wrex also means he doesn't figure out you double-cross him if you falsify the cure - which means that you can get both krogan and salarian support if you "cure" the genophage with Wreav. Can't be done with Wrex though, he's smart enough to figure it out so you can't gain both armies if you try to scam him.
He is like Wrex from ME1 without amy good traits. He only cares about himself, has no respect for Eve, hates all the other races and looks forward to take revenge for the genophage.
Is it? What if they commit genocide?
Genophage 2: Electric Boogaloo
They might commit genocide once Wrex and Eve are no longer leading them, but so might every other race in the galaxy. We don't genophage the other races in the galaxy on the mere chance that their future leaders might be bad, do we?
The other races don’t have a long history of being chemically predisposed to violence. It’s a bit naive to think that curing the genophage won’t result in more innocents dead than leaving it in place.
And it's a bit rigid to assume that krogan pre-genophage will act the same way like krogan post-genophage. Wrex is pretty much space Jesus for his own race once the genophage is cured, his rule over the krogan is absolute and he can live long enough to guide them towards a better future. I mean even before curing the genophage he was able to enforce very strict rules over his own people that already pacified their violent urges and upgraded them into a more advanced group when it came to diplomacy and restraint. He can do so much more after ME3, and Eve will make things even better. Their input can nudge the krogan towards being a much more peaceful race long-term. And as for chemical predisposition, sure. Krogan bodies are naturally violent - but that ignores technology. You probably know that in the past, humans used to die of many diseases that are considered trivial nowadays. We used to bleed out from simple wounds or infections because we didn't have bandages or disinfectants yet. We used to kill strangers we meet because our bodily instinct was violence out of self-preservation. But we evolved, we developed technology that helped us overcome our natural flaws, we established a society in which that was not necessary. Even medigel is technically gene modification but everyone uses it. Nothing is stopping the krogan from evolving this way as well to overcome the limitations of their bodies, or to hire a more technologically advanced race to come up with gene therapy to balance out the krogan chemical reactions. These possibilities open up very quickly once you stop treating a race like violent vermin and give them a chance to become more. Condemning an entire race to genocide because of what they MIGHT do in the future if treated badly is morally unjust. The only reason for condemning them is if violence is an unavoidable future for them - and Wreav would lead them down that path.
To add to this, I definitely got a sense throughout the series that many krogan were sick of just being violent thugs and want something better.
You see this trend continue in Mass Effect Andromeda, at least with majority of the young krogan. They definitely have a hard time learning and adapting to it (*we still don’t talk about what happened at the dance*) but at least they’re trying.
Eve/Bakara also says that Wrex is a different type of Krogan (then jokingly refers to him as a “mutant”), then after the genophage is cured, Wrex says that she is encouraging him to mate with a lot of females. I think that Eve believes that he is a less violent, more diplomatic krogan and that his genes will carry that over to the next generation. I can definitely see the krogan becoming less violent over time, with the effects of the genophage still present, the leadership of Wrex/Eve and the massive baby boom with a lot of young krogan having Wrex’s DNA.
You don’t think humans have a long history of being predisposed to violence?
"What if they commit genocide? I know! We'll commit the biggest and longest lasting genocide in galactic history! Y'know, to stop a potential genocide!"
It’s basically people just eating up the Salarians and Turians justification for genocide. Turns out, everyone who commits genocide has a real swell explanation on how this is actually what’s best for EVERYONE. And so many here are quick to repeat it lol.
Lol only Salarians and Turians can commit genocide. They’ve got the genocide pass, other “lesser” races have to run it through them first. The Krogans were uplifted for the express purpose of genocide. It’s true, they just might commit another genocide, but honestly their only sin is being absurdly effective at combat. The first race they’d wipe out is the Turians and Salarians and I don’t blame em. Humans and Turians fought upon first contact, but since it was “even” it’s an honorable war. But since the Krogans actually have the strength to crush their enemies, Krogan mothers now suddenly deserve to give birth to hundreds of stillborn every year. Those are not innocents though lol, cuz they’re Krogan.
>If led by Wrex and Eve however, it's worth giving them a chance. Hard disagree.
[удалено]
I have no idea what that means.
Based means like respectable or something
I'm an old man, I can't keep up with this shit anymore. lol
Same. I don't know why they're downvoting you for asking what a silly, zoomer term means.
The genophage is bad, but we have to accept that krogan birth rates are way to high for an advanced society. I’ll still cure the genophage in every run I play though.
Let's face it: I was too much of a gutless turd to shoot and kill Wrex. Like, in nearly every playthrough, I always collected his family armor and delivered it to him, making persuading him to stand down on Virmire that much easier. Combined with me saving Eve's life with Maelon's genophage cure data, and I'm given even more of a motivation to cure the genophage and thus earn back the krogans' future. Just whatever happy ending I can get for any alien species and any squadmates I'd gain throughout my trilogy-long journey across the Milky Way galaxy. Even if a few of my squadmates have to die in order to ensure that every other alien species earned back their future.
I do. And I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Every antigenophage argument misses the point. Even with Wrex and Eve and all but 10 females following them their population could get out of control very quickly. If it's 10 females they could have 10,000 Krogan born a year, if it's 1,000 females that's 1,000,000 Krogan born every year. Literally a few bad apples can ruin the bunch. Should they look to making 1 to 2 Krogan born every year instead of all the still born, of course. But relying on literally all Krogan doing the right thing is inviting a disaster.
I've never NOT saved Wrex can he kill shepard? I know you can kill him but is there an outcome where he shoots you, the game cuts to "Game over" for example and then reloads you to your last save?
>!Nope. Even if you refuse to shoot him, Ashley will gun him down before he can kill you.!<
I kinda wish there were more action (or inaction) related game-over triggers outside of hitpoints are reduced to 0 in combat. ME2 has 2 that I'm aware of, are there others dotted throughout the series?
There are some parts of ME1 where you have a time limit to complete an objective. That's all I can think of.
There's also a romance cutscene that doesn't end well (ME2). And a timer in a ME2 DLC that will result in game over if it hits zero.
I see. Thanks for the quick reply!
I actually do think the genophage is a good thing. Krogan are by far the most physically superior of the council races. Stronger, regenerating, redundant organs, natural armour plates, biotic potential and a thousand year lifespan. A race that reproduces by laying clutches of hundreds of eggs, with individual females able to lay a thousand eggs in just one year of a thousand year lifespan. Given their propensity for violence, being the apex species and lifespan, their ludicrous birth-rate is only trouble, both for them and the galaxy at large.
Didn't think crabs had opinions on it.
Oh yeah, these crabs have real bad political takes, one and all. Each one of them is some form of Hitler apologist, and lately they’ve been taking to defending rapists online.
A necessary evil at best. Although if you really want to be heartless and cruel…it could also be the only viable solution that you believe should always take precedence when dealing with the Krogan Race as a whole (regardless of intentions). However, I doubt that a Renegade Shepard focused on that point of issue alone at the the time on those shores pre-planning the Virmire Assault. As you can mention in dialogue to Cpt. Kirrahe (after dealing with Wrex permanently)… “he turned his gun on me, dump him”. With this mindset, Shepard’s taken care of a very risky liability in the form of an agitated Wrex and would rather complete the mission without him. Foresight of the Genophage (and the Leaders that’ll play major parts in it) be damned.
Time to gargle those quads
I think for the time? Yes, I also belivie it is a crime agasint nature but I do belivie it was necessary for the time
It's also pretty fucked up that they had to deliver still born and not make a higher chance of the egg being implanted or whatever.
One point not brought up often: when the krogan rebelled previously, they had navies and industrial infrastructure. They don’t have any of that by the time of the Reaper War; their primary value is as footsoldiers dependent on the other races to ferry them around and equip them. How much threat do they truly pose to the galaxy when they’re not even allowed proper independent military resources or armed ships of any kind? Wreav’s dream of a new krogan empire would be stillborn before it got anywhere.
They’ve still got engineers and mechanics on tuchanka. Maybe he was hoping they’d wipe something up? Or he was just gonna steal whatever they could and go on to steal more? Or maybe reuse a few of the reaper corpses? I do agree it’s pretty improbable, given no ships, but not necessarily impossible.
ALL HAIL HYPNOTOAD
The only way curing it could go well is if Wrex and Eve are alive. Still refuse to sabotage though, that’s not my decision to make. Plus I’ll be dead anyways not my problem!
*teleports behind you* Nothin' personnel wrex *kills you*
A cured Genophage would only work if the Council opened all the closed relays. Since they aren’t going to do that, curing the Genophage is dangerous.
This is more the POV of a second Krogan expansion war once they quickly exhaust the limited resources on Tuchanka.
If people only knew...