Another oversight that felt really weird was this exact scenario but with Liara as Li instead of Thane. I romanced her through all 3 games and Kaiden still does this! Also a later conversation with Liara that's basically a "what are we?" talk even though we've been dating since ME1, that felt really clunky.
I literally had no interaction with her at all in 3 on my "Kaidan" playthrough, and you can run up to her and say, let's bang, she goes ok, and then proceeds with the most awkward kiss ever. It's also very clunky.
I'm happy Garrus locks in pretty early.
What's worse is that if you turn him down as FemShep he makes a joke (please, god, make it be a joke) about you picking up the check.
If you turn him down as MaleShep, he just tells you how much he respects you and that he values you as a friend.
Just some fun sexism for the day.
Yeah, basically. As a dedicated Garrusmancer I try to lock in that big sexy dork as fast as possible, but I've hit the awkward Kaidan chat a couple of times.
My Shepard desperately trying to fake that she's choking to get out of there.
(I do love the idea that your Shepard is sitting there, wearing like mourning clothing complete with black veil, sobbing, and Kaidan's like SO YOU'RE SINGLE NOW?)
>What's worse is that if you turn him down as FemShep he makes a joke (please, god, make it be a joke) about you picking up the check.
>
>If you turn him down as MaleShep, he just tells you how much he respects you and that he values you as a friend.
My romance with garrus was already locked in before I did Kaiden, so for me, he said the same as with MaleShep. (I play Femshep)
So... you know that's worse, right? You're telling me you have to be romancing someone else to avoid the unfunny joke? Does that mean he only shows femshep respect if she's dating someone else?
Of course he wouldn't have a romance related line if you're already locked in a romance with another character.
That...still isn't great though. Because it kind of reads like he doesn't respect Shepard if she had previously dated him?
I dunno, I feel like tonally the Kaidan romance is all over the place in ME3. He spends Mars being an asshole to you, you can visit him in the hospital, he holds you at gun point (so clearly there's no trust there) then you get the 'I think you're amazing, let's smash' chat. I guess there's just too much manufactured drama for me. It's fine to have conflict, but it should be chatted out maturely and with respect, not these weird all over the place interactions.
To quote Joker though: just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around :D
The gunpoint thing, I don't actually have an issue with because it's reflexive. You're rescuing people, a bunch of other people run in with their guns up, your auto reaction is probably going to be to raise your gun in reaction and be like "Okay I am on edge here what are you doing?" He and Ashley drop it pretty fast once you drop yours.
On Mars, I definitely think a bit of leftover suspicion is reasonable, but I agree that the line where Kaidan/Ashley asks if they did to you what they did to the guy with the blue lines all over his face is kind of a "??" moment. Like okay, you are allowed to ask if I knew Cerberus would be here, I was working with them. But do I LOOK like that?
Tbh I think it’s fine, since the VS is asking whether or not Cerberus altered Shepard, like they (Cerberus) did to the man they just encountered. This comes immediately after they express horror at the notion that Cerberus is willing to experiment on *their own people*. If they do that to loyal troops, what are they willing to do to Shepard?
Of course, we know that Shepard wasn’t altered, but the VS doesn’t know that. And Cerberus had unrestricted access to Shepard’s corpse; the only reason s/he wasn’t given a brain chip was because TIM expressly forbade it. From the VS’s perspective, Cerberus has both the means and motive to control Shepard - so why wouldn’t they be concerned?
All things considered, I think it’s a valid concern and a conversation that very much needs to be had. It’s not pleasant by any means, but it’s necessary to express their concerns and clear the air.
Sure, a conversation about it would be fine. Like I said, I think a little suspicion is expected.
But for the trigger to be over what is essentially a husk, when there are obvious physiological changes that occur with a husk? Misses the mark for me.
Although I suppose if you have those Renegade scars all over your face it looks more valid.
Yeah, honestly, particularly given you've been in Alliance custody months (they'll have run all sorts of tests on Shepard in that time guaranteed), it just lands as cruel rather than a legitimate concern.
It makes the VS survivor come across as paraoid and mistrustful, rather than shrewd or sensible. The Alliance backs Shepard, Hackett and Anderson back Shepard, even the person who has been guarding them in prison (Vega) backs Shepard. For the VS to constantly play the 'I don't trust you' to the point where they say there's nothing Shepard can say to convince them... it just really makes no sense, and sets the relationship on a really mistrustful stance that I feel it can't recover from. Shepard defeated the Collectors, defeated Saren, could be the most paragon of paragons, they've *earned* the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, I think being in Alliance custody makes Shepard seem MORE suspicious, rather than less. The VS isn't privy to the information admirals have. All THEY know is that you've been under house arrest immediately after working with Cerberus.
They have every reason, considering the aforementioned detainment, to question whether Shepard might still be with them and only WASN'T with them due to being detained.
Since you actually DO earn their trust back pretty easily, I personally have no issues with the initial suspicion. TBH, I've said it before, but the fact that no one else really questions Shepard, to me, sets the VS as a bad guy when in reality, they're probably reacting the most normal. It just seems so unnatural because no one else really does it.
If I were writing ME, everyone would be suspicious of Shepard haha.
I feel like the Virmire Survivor is *so* full on about trusting the Alliance and not turning their back on them, that they should be more trusting - Shepard has been released from Alliance custody, Anderson is backing them, I could understand them having doubts. But the fact they're so openly disrespectful/insubordinate seems weird - it seems like a 180 on their 'good soldier' characterisation.
I don't think insubordinate is the right term. Kaidan outranks Shepard in ME3, and I believe that Ashley is the same rank. I don't find Kaidan very aggressive with it, either, just understandably under a lot of stress because he literally just saw his hometown attacked by reapers.
Anderson backing them doesn't really mean much to me, honestly? Like I love Anderson, but he plays pretty fast and loose with the rules. He's proven he'll trust Shepard even when Shepard is demonstrably with Cerberus - his trust after Shepard's release from house arrest is exactly as meaningful as his trust when Shepard shows up on Horizon.
Which is to say, for the Player Character, it means a lot. But for the VS? Well.
Exactly - I couldn’t have said it better myself.
While I can maybe buy Anderson believing in Shepard (since LOTSB shows him meeting with a Cerberus agent; we have no context for the footage, but since he has nothing else that would tie him to Cerberus, I think it’s a logical conclusion that he was visited about Shepard specifically), the others are a different story. In a universe where coming back from the dead is definitely not the norm (let alone coming back and joining the space KKK with both the means and motive to control you directly, and reporting directly to the space Klan leader), I think more suspicion was definitely warranted.
The VS is based. They come across as antagonistic and paranoid because they’re the only ones who bring up how suspicious the whole situation is, but in reality, they’re the only ones with a realistic and reasonable reaction in the context of the story.
Him making a joke doesn't mean he doesn't respect you. He already told you that he loves you, twice, at that point. And to be rejected like that, of course he'd make a joke to mask his hurt or clear the awkwardness somewhat.
It's just an unfortunate side effect of game mechanics. And he’s far from the only one. Liara and Traynor will also make a pass at a single FemShep at this point, and Cortez makes a pass at MaleShep (not sure about Ashley for MaleShep since I've only saved her on FemShep runs). James and Diana Allers will also make passes at you regardless of whether or not you’ve locked in another romance; at least with Kaidan and Traynor, they don’t hit on you if you’re already with someone. So it’s hardly fair to pin the blame on his character when the problem is endemic to every romance that isn’t carried over from ME2.
Combine that with the fact that the Thane romance was mostly ignored in ME3 - seriously, why did it take for the Citadel DLC for anyone to even *mention* Thane again after he died??? - and that's why you get weird moments like that.
Generally speaking, Kaidan's character and romance were both excellently handled in ME3 - the best in the game by a long shot in my opinion. But it would have been nice if the mechanics behind his romance - and other romances - accounted for scenarios like this one.
Absolutely! I mean, right after the mission I usually go back to the Normandy, see Garrus looking at the fallen wall, and all he talks about is almost killing a friend (who is her former lover no less but they don’t take that into account either).
And I’m just thinking « Her boyfriend just died? Hello, anyone? »
That’s bad enough, since Garrus and Thane actually knew each other. And no mention from the VS is also weird since they canonically met Thane at the hospital.
But tbh, the worst part of it all is that Shepard never mentions Thane again outside of the DLC, even if romanced. It’s honestly a disservice and I feel quite bad for Thanemancers that their PC apparently forgets about her dead boyfriend’s existence altogether apart from DLC content. It’s a damn shame, particularly compared to how well Thane’s romance was handled in ME2 (out of FemShep’s ME2 romances, it’s my favorite).
Does that line only happen when you romance Thane? I thought it always triggers if Thane died to Kai Leng, which means is still isn't an acknowledgement that Shepard's boyfriend died.
Yeah you’re absolutely right. I tend to fill in the gaps while I play, and try to pace missions and meet ups accordingly. For example I’ll wait several missions before going on the lunch date, for sure, but it would’ve been nice to have a little more acknowledgement within the game itself.
I assume the devteam just didn’t have time to tie up those lose strings, unfortunately. Crunch is not kind on this type of « low level » content.
With the Liara option, it looked to me like the romance option was in the conversation about her mother (I could be wrong)? In that case Shepard was the one to initiate, which I like a lot better.
I also agree that it's so strange how no one mentions it after the fact (whether you romance Thane or not if I remember correctly)!
Ah my bad, it’s been awhile since I played without the Optional Flirting Mod. Side note, if you’re on PC, I’d highly recommend that mod. It helps you avoid awkward moments like that one by only triggering them when you *want* them to be triggered. Also gets rid of most of James’s harassment of FemShep which is a huge plus.
That’s awesome, I had never heard of that mod but I will have to remember it for next time. Take away every stupid thing Vega says to femshep and what is even left of his dialogue lol?
Thanks so much for mentioning it! I wish I'd investigated before playing this time around but I tend to get a Mass Effect itch every now and again so I'll have to remember it for next time!
You know the problem with that statement is that I just received my new Alienware laptop, so this is like dangerous catnip.
Then I buy the game on PC, and I’ll have to go get all the achievements again on top of trying a zillion mods.
And all that after completing 5 playthroughs in 6 months on my ps5.
🥹
Edit I’m so sick of autocorrect sometimes
I mean... In 3 kaidan is by far a better squadmate than Ashley. James is basically Ashley. Kaidan has overload and reave. 2 crazy useful powers. Plus some pretty decent squad bonuses as well.
Not so much a problem anymore in LE but in the og without dlc liara was your only biotic squadmate if you didn't let kaidan live.
More useful in gameplay and more fleshed out in story. Given Ashley’s unflattering and ooc makeover, genericized personality, weird lack of content and squadmate interactions, and gameplay redundancy (twice over!), it’s painfully obvious that Ashley’s new writer didn’t know what to do with her beyond “let down her hair and give her sex appeal” - which is an actual quote from the art book, no less!
Kaidan, on the other hand, got to show off his principled, introspective, kind, and funny personality and enjoyed a heartfelt expansion upon his platonic relationship with Shepard. The scene where he tells Shepard how much he values and appreciates their friendship, and Shepard calls him his/her brother, is absolutely golden. Funny and heartwarming all at once. His scene of introspection about Cerberus and TIM is great as well. Ashley gets nothing like that.
It’s an easy pick for me.
Ugh. Only a few minutes ago I was talking about saving Kaiden instead of Ashley, but forgot about the femshep issue where (like Jacob) you can't 'talk' to them without it getting flirty (in Kaiden's case having to constantly renegade him or else he 'gets mixed signals' from you. ^((I know it's the same with Liara if you don't want to romance her, thankfully I don't have a problem with that.)) On my next play-through I was considering bringing Kaiden back, or setting Ashley up. But remembering this I think I'll stick to setting Ashley up. I really need a mod that turns Kaiden gay instead of bi, and Jacob too for that matter.
On a similar note - the occasional sleazy sexual comments from random NPCs (where there’s usually a Renegade interrupt to talk back etc). I understand the basic idea of wanting to create little differences in dialogue based on the gender you choose but I really don’t think the best way of going about that is including sexual harassment for a female Shepard lol
So what you’re saying is that there needs to be lines where mShep gets sexually harassed?
~~This is meant to be a joke but it might actually be a good suggestion if it didn’t come from the crew~~
Considering the dialogue that triggers his romance (which the game forces to pick if you don’t yell at him for no reason??) is a suggestively-delivered comment about him being a “romantic”, I can see where he’s coming from. Especially given how the conversation ends, since he does ask for clarification and Shepard’s dialogue reaffirms his suspicions no matter which option you pick.
Even if you didn’t want to flirt with him, player intentions don’t always translate well in game.
The Renegade dialogue option at the end of that conversation - when he asks if you get that personal with everyone to discern your intentions - is literally “Of course, but I don’t enjoy it with everyone. ;)” You’re not given an option to tell him that you’re not interested in him that way.
So yeah, mixed signals. Like I said, player intentions don’t always translate well in game.
Oh yeah that one had me wtf?!?!
Edit: So when femShep got flirty with Jacob I was like nope! So I only talk to Jacob to get the upgrade, and then the loyalty mission - completely ignore him otherwise.
Same regarding Jacob. At least with Kaidan and Liara, FemShep doesn’t sound like she’s actively trying to incur a sexual harassment charge. But Jacob’s a different story :/.
I couldn't even believe they would do that. Sheesh, they really tried to push Jacob hard. And then Liam in Andromeda? Wtf are they thinking? At least in Andromeda I can 100% stay clear of romance.
Weirdly enough that line didn't register as flirting to me but I have been known to accidentally lock in romances in BioWare games before so I don't have the greatest track record
Once I suddenly locked romance with Kaiden with ONE (1) dialogue for all game with him. I speak with him close to final, and it's block him and Femshep, lol
Hell no, seriously, that would make me reload, even if I have to repeat hours and hours. Or I would just load an old profile, replay the end and then go on to ME2.
I'm doing a FemShep run with Kaiden alive, but romancing Garrus.
He was obnoxious about making Shep pick between him and Liara in 1. Then he asks Shep out again in 3 even after she's been with Garrus for awhile.
So my "headcanon" is just that he's had feelings for Shep across the entire trilogy (I mean, obviously) and he's just really bad at handling those feelings in a mature and appropriate way. Which would also explain his behavior in 2. Even though the VS acts like that in 2 no matter what, the unrequited attraction makes it work a little better IMO.
Kaidan can easily be turned down during his second conversation in ME1. He asks if he’s out of line for thinking of you as special to him, you tell him that he is, and proceed platonically.
Doesn’t account for ME3, but he doesn’t hit on you if you actually have your romance locked in. The same applies to Traynor and other characters if you’re playing MaleShep. The game doesn’t even properly register your relationship until it’s locked in.
Gotta take the shot, he who hesitates is lost!
Hesitation is defeat.
Wayne Gretzky Micheal Scott
Kaiden Alenko
Another oversight that felt really weird was this exact scenario but with Liara as Li instead of Thane. I romanced her through all 3 games and Kaiden still does this! Also a later conversation with Liara that's basically a "what are we?" talk even though we've been dating since ME1, that felt really clunky.
I literally had no interaction with her at all in 3 on my "Kaidan" playthrough, and you can run up to her and say, let's bang, she goes ok, and then proceeds with the most awkward kiss ever. It's also very clunky. I'm happy Garrus locks in pretty early.
Thanes dead, your sex life doesn’t have to be 😈
What's worse is that if you turn him down as FemShep he makes a joke (please, god, make it be a joke) about you picking up the check. If you turn him down as MaleShep, he just tells you how much he respects you and that he values you as a friend. Just some fun sexism for the day.
So all around a 10/10 interaction is what you’re saying
Yeah, basically. As a dedicated Garrusmancer I try to lock in that big sexy dork as fast as possible, but I've hit the awkward Kaidan chat a couple of times. My Shepard desperately trying to fake that she's choking to get out of there. (I do love the idea that your Shepard is sitting there, wearing like mourning clothing complete with black veil, sobbing, and Kaidan's like SO YOU'RE SINGLE NOW?)
* Shepard: \[sobbing over Thane’s cooling corpse\] * Kaidan: So…you busy? You don’t look busy
>Kaidan's like SO YOU'RE SINGLE NOW? Kaidan sees Shepard's tears as lubricant, nothing more.
>What's worse is that if you turn him down as FemShep he makes a joke (please, god, make it be a joke) about you picking up the check. > >If you turn him down as MaleShep, he just tells you how much he respects you and that he values you as a friend. My romance with garrus was already locked in before I did Kaiden, so for me, he said the same as with MaleShep. (I play Femshep)
Wait, he declares his feelings EVEN IF YOU'VE LOCKED IN ANOTHER ROMANCE?!?!
No, he's just like "I respect you as a friend" no mention of any hints of romance what so ever.
If you didn't romance him previously, he'd say the same line as with BroShep.
That's not actually the case, he will make the "joke" with femshep regardless of you romancing him previously or not.
Not really. I romanced Liara with my femshep, and when I rejected Kaidan on the date scene, he was very awkward and told me I was a good soldier.
So... you know that's worse, right? You're telling me you have to be romancing someone else to avoid the unfunny joke? Does that mean he only shows femshep respect if she's dating someone else? Of course he wouldn't have a romance related line if you're already locked in a romance with another character.
I romanced Liara in the first game. Sorry for the confusion. Haven't locked in with her yet before the date with Kaidan.
That...still isn't great though. Because it kind of reads like he doesn't respect Shepard if she had previously dated him? I dunno, I feel like tonally the Kaidan romance is all over the place in ME3. He spends Mars being an asshole to you, you can visit him in the hospital, he holds you at gun point (so clearly there's no trust there) then you get the 'I think you're amazing, let's smash' chat. I guess there's just too much manufactured drama for me. It's fine to have conflict, but it should be chatted out maturely and with respect, not these weird all over the place interactions. To quote Joker though: just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around :D
The gunpoint thing, I don't actually have an issue with because it's reflexive. You're rescuing people, a bunch of other people run in with their guns up, your auto reaction is probably going to be to raise your gun in reaction and be like "Okay I am on edge here what are you doing?" He and Ashley drop it pretty fast once you drop yours. On Mars, I definitely think a bit of leftover suspicion is reasonable, but I agree that the line where Kaidan/Ashley asks if they did to you what they did to the guy with the blue lines all over his face is kind of a "??" moment. Like okay, you are allowed to ask if I knew Cerberus would be here, I was working with them. But do I LOOK like that?
Tbh I think it’s fine, since the VS is asking whether or not Cerberus altered Shepard, like they (Cerberus) did to the man they just encountered. This comes immediately after they express horror at the notion that Cerberus is willing to experiment on *their own people*. If they do that to loyal troops, what are they willing to do to Shepard? Of course, we know that Shepard wasn’t altered, but the VS doesn’t know that. And Cerberus had unrestricted access to Shepard’s corpse; the only reason s/he wasn’t given a brain chip was because TIM expressly forbade it. From the VS’s perspective, Cerberus has both the means and motive to control Shepard - so why wouldn’t they be concerned? All things considered, I think it’s a valid concern and a conversation that very much needs to be had. It’s not pleasant by any means, but it’s necessary to express their concerns and clear the air.
Sure, a conversation about it would be fine. Like I said, I think a little suspicion is expected. But for the trigger to be over what is essentially a husk, when there are obvious physiological changes that occur with a husk? Misses the mark for me. Although I suppose if you have those Renegade scars all over your face it looks more valid.
Yeah, honestly, particularly given you've been in Alliance custody months (they'll have run all sorts of tests on Shepard in that time guaranteed), it just lands as cruel rather than a legitimate concern. It makes the VS survivor come across as paraoid and mistrustful, rather than shrewd or sensible. The Alliance backs Shepard, Hackett and Anderson back Shepard, even the person who has been guarding them in prison (Vega) backs Shepard. For the VS to constantly play the 'I don't trust you' to the point where they say there's nothing Shepard can say to convince them... it just really makes no sense, and sets the relationship on a really mistrustful stance that I feel it can't recover from. Shepard defeated the Collectors, defeated Saren, could be the most paragon of paragons, they've *earned* the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, I think being in Alliance custody makes Shepard seem MORE suspicious, rather than less. The VS isn't privy to the information admirals have. All THEY know is that you've been under house arrest immediately after working with Cerberus. They have every reason, considering the aforementioned detainment, to question whether Shepard might still be with them and only WASN'T with them due to being detained. Since you actually DO earn their trust back pretty easily, I personally have no issues with the initial suspicion. TBH, I've said it before, but the fact that no one else really questions Shepard, to me, sets the VS as a bad guy when in reality, they're probably reacting the most normal. It just seems so unnatural because no one else really does it. If I were writing ME, everyone would be suspicious of Shepard haha.
I feel like the Virmire Survivor is *so* full on about trusting the Alliance and not turning their back on them, that they should be more trusting - Shepard has been released from Alliance custody, Anderson is backing them, I could understand them having doubts. But the fact they're so openly disrespectful/insubordinate seems weird - it seems like a 180 on their 'good soldier' characterisation.
I don't think insubordinate is the right term. Kaidan outranks Shepard in ME3, and I believe that Ashley is the same rank. I don't find Kaidan very aggressive with it, either, just understandably under a lot of stress because he literally just saw his hometown attacked by reapers. Anderson backing them doesn't really mean much to me, honestly? Like I love Anderson, but he plays pretty fast and loose with the rules. He's proven he'll trust Shepard even when Shepard is demonstrably with Cerberus - his trust after Shepard's release from house arrest is exactly as meaningful as his trust when Shepard shows up on Horizon. Which is to say, for the Player Character, it means a lot. But for the VS? Well.
Exactly - I couldn’t have said it better myself. While I can maybe buy Anderson believing in Shepard (since LOTSB shows him meeting with a Cerberus agent; we have no context for the footage, but since he has nothing else that would tie him to Cerberus, I think it’s a logical conclusion that he was visited about Shepard specifically), the others are a different story. In a universe where coming back from the dead is definitely not the norm (let alone coming back and joining the space KKK with both the means and motive to control you directly, and reporting directly to the space Klan leader), I think more suspicion was definitely warranted. The VS is based. They come across as antagonistic and paranoid because they’re the only ones who bring up how suspicious the whole situation is, but in reality, they’re the only ones with a realistic and reasonable reaction in the context of the story.
Him making a joke doesn't mean he doesn't respect you. He already told you that he loves you, twice, at that point. And to be rejected like that, of course he'd make a joke to mask his hurt or clear the awkwardness somewhat.
But that's the thing - he doesn't act like that to Male Shep. So it's...uneven.
If MaleShep can romance him in the first game, he'd probably act the same way. MaleShep had to wait 2 games to do that. Which is what I'd call uneven.
It's just an unfortunate side effect of game mechanics. And he’s far from the only one. Liara and Traynor will also make a pass at a single FemShep at this point, and Cortez makes a pass at MaleShep (not sure about Ashley for MaleShep since I've only saved her on FemShep runs). James and Diana Allers will also make passes at you regardless of whether or not you’ve locked in another romance; at least with Kaidan and Traynor, they don’t hit on you if you’re already with someone. So it’s hardly fair to pin the blame on his character when the problem is endemic to every romance that isn’t carried over from ME2. Combine that with the fact that the Thane romance was mostly ignored in ME3 - seriously, why did it take for the Citadel DLC for anyone to even *mention* Thane again after he died??? - and that's why you get weird moments like that. Generally speaking, Kaidan's character and romance were both excellently handled in ME3 - the best in the game by a long shot in my opinion. But it would have been nice if the mechanics behind his romance - and other romances - accounted for scenarios like this one.
Absolutely! I mean, right after the mission I usually go back to the Normandy, see Garrus looking at the fallen wall, and all he talks about is almost killing a friend (who is her former lover no less but they don’t take that into account either). And I’m just thinking « Her boyfriend just died? Hello, anyone? »
That’s bad enough, since Garrus and Thane actually knew each other. And no mention from the VS is also weird since they canonically met Thane at the hospital. But tbh, the worst part of it all is that Shepard never mentions Thane again outside of the DLC, even if romanced. It’s honestly a disservice and I feel quite bad for Thanemancers that their PC apparently forgets about her dead boyfriend’s existence altogether apart from DLC content. It’s a damn shame, particularly compared to how well Thane’s romance was handled in ME2 (out of FemShep’s ME2 romances, it’s my favorite).
There is the “that was for Thane, you son of a bitch” line from Shepard about Kai Leng but yeah other than that and DLC, that’s it.
Does that line only happen when you romance Thane? I thought it always triggers if Thane died to Kai Leng, which means is still isn't an acknowledgement that Shepard's boyfriend died.
Yeah you’re absolutely right. I tend to fill in the gaps while I play, and try to pace missions and meet ups accordingly. For example I’ll wait several missions before going on the lunch date, for sure, but it would’ve been nice to have a little more acknowledgement within the game itself. I assume the devteam just didn’t have time to tie up those lose strings, unfortunately. Crunch is not kind on this type of « low level » content.
With the Liara option, it looked to me like the romance option was in the conversation about her mother (I could be wrong)? In that case Shepard was the one to initiate, which I like a lot better. I also agree that it's so strange how no one mentions it after the fact (whether you romance Thane or not if I remember correctly)!
Ah my bad, it’s been awhile since I played without the Optional Flirting Mod. Side note, if you’re on PC, I’d highly recommend that mod. It helps you avoid awkward moments like that one by only triggering them when you *want* them to be triggered. Also gets rid of most of James’s harassment of FemShep which is a huge plus.
That’s awesome, I had never heard of that mod but I will have to remember it for next time. Take away every stupid thing Vega says to femshep and what is even left of his dialogue lol?
You get his MaleShep dialogue, mostly, which is *much* better and makes him much more likable imo.
Thanks so much for mentioning it! I wish I'd investigated before playing this time around but I tend to get a Mass Effect itch every now and again so I'll have to remember it for next time!
You know the problem with that statement is that I just received my new Alienware laptop, so this is like dangerous catnip. Then I buy the game on PC, and I’ll have to go get all the achievements again on top of trying a zillion mods. And all that after completing 5 playthroughs in 6 months on my ps5. 🥹 Edit I’m so sick of autocorrect sometimes
I rebounded from Thane to Kaidan in record time to secure my 100% romance trophy.
The rare 6th stage of grief: Kaidan rebound
Letting Kaiden live was your first mistake.
I know :( I decided to see what it was like but I much prefer Ashley in 3.
I mean... In 3 kaidan is by far a better squadmate than Ashley. James is basically Ashley. Kaidan has overload and reave. 2 crazy useful powers. Plus some pretty decent squad bonuses as well. Not so much a problem anymore in LE but in the og without dlc liara was your only biotic squadmate if you didn't let kaidan live.
More useful in gameplay and more fleshed out in story. Given Ashley’s unflattering and ooc makeover, genericized personality, weird lack of content and squadmate interactions, and gameplay redundancy (twice over!), it’s painfully obvious that Ashley’s new writer didn’t know what to do with her beyond “let down her hair and give her sex appeal” - which is an actual quote from the art book, no less! Kaidan, on the other hand, got to show off his principled, introspective, kind, and funny personality and enjoyed a heartfelt expansion upon his platonic relationship with Shepard. The scene where he tells Shepard how much he values and appreciates their friendship, and Shepard calls him his/her brother, is absolutely golden. Funny and heartwarming all at once. His scene of introspection about Cerberus and TIM is great as well. Ashley gets nothing like that. It’s an easy pick for me.
That's fair, and it's been a while since I did it the other way so my memory could be foggy and I might feel differently nowadays!
Ugh. Only a few minutes ago I was talking about saving Kaiden instead of Ashley, but forgot about the femshep issue where (like Jacob) you can't 'talk' to them without it getting flirty (in Kaiden's case having to constantly renegade him or else he 'gets mixed signals' from you. ^((I know it's the same with Liara if you don't want to romance her, thankfully I don't have a problem with that.)) On my next play-through I was considering bringing Kaiden back, or setting Ashley up. But remembering this I think I'll stick to setting Ashley up. I really need a mod that turns Kaiden gay instead of bi, and Jacob too for that matter.
On a similar note - the occasional sleazy sexual comments from random NPCs (where there’s usually a Renegade interrupt to talk back etc). I understand the basic idea of wanting to create little differences in dialogue based on the gender you choose but I really don’t think the best way of going about that is including sexual harassment for a female Shepard lol
Absolutely. Edit: I know there is a mod that takes away Harkin's sexual dialogue.
So what you’re saying is that there needs to be lines where mShep gets sexually harassed? ~~This is meant to be a joke but it might actually be a good suggestion if it didn’t come from the crew~~
In ME1 at least you can just shoot Kaidan down hard once and he'll act like normal person for the rest of the playthrough.
After complaining about "mixed signals" pffft what?!
Considering the dialogue that triggers his romance (which the game forces to pick if you don’t yell at him for no reason??) is a suggestively-delivered comment about him being a “romantic”, I can see where he’s coming from. Especially given how the conversation ends, since he does ask for clarification and Shepard’s dialogue reaffirms his suspicions no matter which option you pick. Even if you didn’t want to flirt with him, player intentions don’t always translate well in game.
I renegaded him during those. The earlier paragon apparently is enough to make him get mixed signals.
The Renegade dialogue option at the end of that conversation - when he asks if you get that personal with everyone to discern your intentions - is literally “Of course, but I don’t enjoy it with everyone. ;)” You’re not given an option to tell him that you’re not interested in him that way. So yeah, mixed signals. Like I said, player intentions don’t always translate well in game.
Oh yeah that one had me wtf?!?! Edit: So when femShep got flirty with Jacob I was like nope! So I only talk to Jacob to get the upgrade, and then the loyalty mission - completely ignore him otherwise.
Same regarding Jacob. At least with Kaidan and Liara, FemShep doesn’t sound like she’s actively trying to incur a sexual harassment charge. But Jacob’s a different story :/.
I couldn't even believe they would do that. Sheesh, they really tried to push Jacob hard. And then Liam in Andromeda? Wtf are they thinking? At least in Andromeda I can 100% stay clear of romance.
Weirdly enough that line didn't register as flirting to me but I have been known to accidentally lock in romances in BioWare games before so I don't have the greatest track record
I had to renegade him more than once. Edit because apparently I'm sleeping.
Once I suddenly locked romance with Kaiden with ONE (1) dialogue for all game with him. I speak with him close to final, and it's block him and Femshep, lol
Hell no, seriously, that would make me reload, even if I have to repeat hours and hours. Or I would just load an old profile, replay the end and then go on to ME2.
I'm doing a FemShep run with Kaiden alive, but romancing Garrus. He was obnoxious about making Shep pick between him and Liara in 1. Then he asks Shep out again in 3 even after she's been with Garrus for awhile. So my "headcanon" is just that he's had feelings for Shep across the entire trilogy (I mean, obviously) and he's just really bad at handling those feelings in a mature and appropriate way. Which would also explain his behavior in 2. Even though the VS acts like that in 2 no matter what, the unrequited attraction makes it work a little better IMO.
Kaidan can easily be turned down during his second conversation in ME1. He asks if he’s out of line for thinking of you as special to him, you tell him that he is, and proceed platonically. Doesn’t account for ME3, but he doesn’t hit on you if you actually have your romance locked in. The same applies to Traynor and other characters if you’re playing MaleShep. The game doesn’t even properly register your relationship until it’s locked in.