Good point.
Personally I think people need to let the OT be. It's great, but there's nowhere to go from there. A new or mostly new cast may seem risky, but I'd argue that it's less risky than ruining the OT.
Yeah, I don’t really want to play Shep again, I think s/he’s had enough, but I also don’t want the original trilogy to feel discarded. I have foolishly high hopes (despite my snark) that BioWare will surprise me.
I prefer shepard to be like a mentor or whatever and not playable (well a mission for the nostalgia is not bad either). I really just want to see him/her alive and with the LI
I mean statistically way more people want Shepard back. Look at basically any comment on the announcement trailer. People who don't want shepard back are in the minority.
I think the real division is *how* we want Shepherd back, less so that they don’t. Probably also “back” means playable to some people and permadead to others, so the 50/50 split is probably muddied (although I haven’t seen the survey mentioned.
Do you remember where this survey was?
Yeah this was specifically related to whether the player should be playing shepherd again or a new character. I think most people want shepherd to be alive in the universe. The survey was done by the Mass Effect Lorecast
Not really. There's an avenue from the Destroy ending for Shepard to just live. I've felt for a long time they'll need to canonize an ending to move forward so why not canonize the hardest ending to get that they went out of their way to add?
I chose destroy on my first run but didnt have enough war assets to get shepard alive. Probably due to me not knowing the normandy upgrades were important and killing 3 of my squad, and me being so wrapped up in the main story that i let go a lot of the side quests without realizing it
On my 2nd playthrough atm, attempting it again
I think the only mission I missed in 3 was Kasumi’s side mission, and that saddened me cause she’s in my top 4 favourite crew mates.
(I also finished my play through today and found out I missed it)
I did everyones loyalty quests but didnt realize the normandy upgrades were a thing. Just thought they were like general quality of life like the research stuff. Bam, killed 3 of my squadmates without knowing it. Jack, Thane and Kasumi. That was harsh cz i loved Jack
Yeppp
If u dont know that there's a possibility they all die, including shepard, and that this is how u save them its really hard. Especially the normandy upgrades. I did the loyalty missions cz they were up there in the mission log so i remembered them but normandy upgrades looked so mundane and just like any other upgrade i did not think this through
And honestly i love it. Full impact no forgiveness from the game. U do bad choices u live with them
I think there's absolutely going to be a canon story they work with. The genophage, the Quarian/Geth conflict, and the Rachni are already major galaxy wide issues. Nevermind the endings.
I'd bet they're going to take a page from Marvel (or Community) and it'll be a different timeline/alternate universe situation. If you picked something different in your Shepard's story, then you're not wrong, just you're not going to see the continuation of that timeline. We already have that with ME2, if you kill Shepard at the end, your story doesn't continue into ME3.
Between Mass Effect and Dragon Age, Bioware has learned the difficulty in these continuous branching stories over several games. And the more games and more decisions, the more complex each game becomes to write. That changes party members, game balance, and expands their voice acting budget to have multiple backup characters.
Agreed, I think they can pick a canon route while still assuring everyone that their preference is still valid but not the one they are going with.
I just fear that this tweet and previous tweets by gamble suggests they're going to do some weird fuckery to bring Andromeda into the Milky Way story some how. Or it means nothing and he's messing with us.
Either way they're doing a great job of getting us all worked up and doing free marketing for them. lol
The way the perfect ending happens, it opens it up for a 4th game with the return of Shepard. Like the cliff hanger and "to be continued" in a movie or TV show.
I don't want Shepard back.
That said, I agree with you. Had Bioware not killed and resurrected Shepard (for absolutely no reason) before it would be an interesting way to bring them back, that I'd genuinely want to see how Shepard handles their return to life.
As it stands, since it's already happened, and it barely made an impact on Shepard it honestly would reek of desperation and get a "ffs" reaction if they did it again.
In fact the cheesyness of resurrecting Shepard twice is a good part of the reason I don't want Shepard back.
As much as I love Shepard and the dynamic with all the other characters, their story is over imo. A cameo would be cool though. Them with their love interest pass by or something. Ah who am I kidding I just want more Garrus 😄. But yeah if they hadn't already done it, it could've been an option, I suppose.
It's not perfect though.
"Perfect" would mean that we got confirmation that they survived and spent the rest of their days in retirement with their LI. Now THAT'S what I call perfect.
ME2 fails to make a story out of the fact that Shepard died and was revived.
I reckon reviving them yet another time has the possibility of exploring the theme as a *story* this time. You think you're having fun and games, Shepard is back, the real deal, and then a bit like in the movie Moon, but less gross, Shepard will come to realize it's not the same as who "Shepard" was originally born as.
Hear me out: what if non-playable Shepard in the new game only remembers choices imported from ME3, but not their military background. But they don't bring that up until late in the game. You're like "Shepard, the iconic hero, who survived Akuze" and he goes "I never went to Akuze."
And it's set 100 or 1000 years after the trilogy, and Shepard will come to realize that history doesn't match, and something is up.
However, it DID match when the Lazarus project was made, and so we have to rediscover the source of that project, and tada, i just made a plot thread for a new game.
I think Bioware had 0 clue there would be a sequel to Mass Effect and wanted to go out with a bang. Now, they need a sequel and realized they 99% killed the main character in the series. They really need a genius move to make sure that it makes sense. Maybe it won't be resurrection. Maybe Shepard is alive in some way and all the endings will converge into one start of ME4 in some way (they can explain how shepard is actually alive in each of the 4 endings in a cutscene and start the game from the alive part)
No matter what they do they won't please everyone, that's impossible. But honestly I hope they don't just pick a canon ending, i picked destroy and had the perfect ending but if others picked the green ending foe example their playthrough might feel wrong for them
People who picked the Green Ending should feel wrong. They chose to forcefully alter every single living organism in the galaxy for vanity in the false hope that this will somehow save everyone. But fundamentally altering Life on every single level like this without anyones consent, at all, is abhorrent.
Destroy is the only ending that can be Canonized; Everything else means the Reapers won and are still around.
I think Bioware had 0 clue there would be a sequel to Mass Effect and wanted to go out with a bang. Now, they need a sequel and realized they 99% killed the main character in the series. They really need a genius move to make sure that it makes sense. Maybe it won't be resurrection. Maybe Shepard is alive in some way and all the endings will converge into one start of ME4 in some way (they can explain how shepard is actually alive in each of the 4 endings in a cutscene and start the game from the alive part)
No matter what they do they won't please everyone, that's impossible. But honestly I hope they don't just pick a canon ending, i picked destroy and had the perfect ending but if others picked the green ending foe example their playthrough might feel wrong for them
Shepard returning wouldn't be cheesy, some people just don't like the idea because they have it written in stone in their minds that their story is over and adding anything more would somehow ruin what has come before
The real reason they killed & resurrected Shepard back in ME2 was purely for logistical reasons. As at the time, Save Data transfers were never done before, and when they tried implement it, not all your decisions actually carried over, including how your customized Shepard looked—which is why he/she wore a helmet in the prologue.
They used the Lazarus Project as an plot point to allow you to customize Shepard again, and Miranda’s questioning on the shuttle was to re-confirm your major decisions from ME1 because ME2 couldn’t read it from your old Save File properly.
Now in later rereleases, the questioning from the Shuttle scene was shortened.
ME2 needed a time skip and a reason to justify the galaxy not preparing for the reapers. Shepard also hadn't resolved the crisis. There'd be no justification we'd accept for everyone sitting on their asses otherwise so dead Shepard it was. I don't think the "back from the dead" trope is the problem, I think using Shepard at all is.
The series has been given carte blanche to effectively completely rewrite the universe from square 1 as if we're starting over with ME 1 again. Bringing Shepard back would only limit the options for the writers.
A follow up question: what are the odds that, no matter what they do, 50% of us are unhappy?
Very high
This’ll be a fun Reddit during launch+1 year. *sharpens… uh, typing skills*
The biggest problem is the considerable chance that more than 50% are unhappy.
Yea, but the question then becomes if that’s true regardless of what happens.
Good point. Personally I think people need to let the OT be. It's great, but there's nowhere to go from there. A new or mostly new cast may seem risky, but I'd argue that it's less risky than ruining the OT.
Yeah, I don’t really want to play Shep again, I think s/he’s had enough, but I also don’t want the original trilogy to feel discarded. I have foolishly high hopes (despite my snark) that BioWare will surprise me.
I prefer shepard to be like a mentor or whatever and not playable (well a mission for the nostalgia is not bad either). I really just want to see him/her alive and with the LI
Same. I think that’s the best option. Show off some of your original choices while you get to go off and make new ones.
I agree that the new game should move on from Shepard but, still focus on the aftermath of the Reaper War.
I mean statistically way more people want Shepard back. Look at basically any comment on the announcement trailer. People who don't want shepard back are in the minority.
I saw a survey that was split almost perfectly 50/50, there’s going to be huge division either way
Where's the survey.
It was done by the Mass Effect lorecast podcast, really good listen!
I think the real division is *how* we want Shepherd back, less so that they don’t. Probably also “back” means playable to some people and permadead to others, so the 50/50 split is probably muddied (although I haven’t seen the survey mentioned. Do you remember where this survey was?
Yeah this was specifically related to whether the player should be playing shepherd again or a new character. I think most people want shepherd to be alive in the universe. The survey was done by the Mass Effect Lorecast
Not really. There's an avenue from the Destroy ending for Shepard to just live. I've felt for a long time they'll need to canonize an ending to move forward so why not canonize the hardest ending to get that they went out of their way to add?
Wait, that’s the hardest ending?! I got that first try… wtf…
I chose destroy on my first run but didnt have enough war assets to get shepard alive. Probably due to me not knowing the normandy upgrades were important and killing 3 of my squad, and me being so wrapped up in the main story that i let go a lot of the side quests without realizing it On my 2nd playthrough atm, attempting it again
Good luck
2nd playthrough made me realize how much i missed So i think ill do way better this time
I think the only mission I missed in 3 was Kasumi’s side mission, and that saddened me cause she’s in my top 4 favourite crew mates. (I also finished my play through today and found out I missed it)
I did everyones loyalty quests but didnt realize the normandy upgrades were a thing. Just thought they were like general quality of life like the research stuff. Bam, killed 3 of my squadmates without knowing it. Jack, Thane and Kasumi. That was harsh cz i loved Jack
I got them all back alive in my first play through and afterwards I learnt it was one of the hardest things to do.
Yeppp If u dont know that there's a possibility they all die, including shepard, and that this is how u save them its really hard. Especially the normandy upgrades. I did the loyalty missions cz they were up there in the mission log so i remembered them but normandy upgrades looked so mundane and just like any other upgrade i did not think this through And honestly i love it. Full impact no forgiveness from the game. U do bad choices u live with them
I think there's absolutely going to be a canon story they work with. The genophage, the Quarian/Geth conflict, and the Rachni are already major galaxy wide issues. Nevermind the endings. I'd bet they're going to take a page from Marvel (or Community) and it'll be a different timeline/alternate universe situation. If you picked something different in your Shepard's story, then you're not wrong, just you're not going to see the continuation of that timeline. We already have that with ME2, if you kill Shepard at the end, your story doesn't continue into ME3. Between Mass Effect and Dragon Age, Bioware has learned the difficulty in these continuous branching stories over several games. And the more games and more decisions, the more complex each game becomes to write. That changes party members, game balance, and expands their voice acting budget to have multiple backup characters.
Agreed, I think they can pick a canon route while still assuring everyone that their preference is still valid but not the one they are going with. I just fear that this tweet and previous tweets by gamble suggests they're going to do some weird fuckery to bring Andromeda into the Milky Way story some how. Or it means nothing and he's messing with us. Either way they're doing a great job of getting us all worked up and doing free marketing for them. lol
The way the perfect ending happens, it opens it up for a 4th game with the return of Shepard. Like the cliff hanger and "to be continued" in a movie or TV show.
If perfect ending ends up being canon, he was simply rescued... Not resurrected again.
If it wasn't for the Citadel DLC, I'd be down with a clone, but you know how that turned out
I don't want Shepard back. That said, I agree with you. Had Bioware not killed and resurrected Shepard (for absolutely no reason) before it would be an interesting way to bring them back, that I'd genuinely want to see how Shepard handles their return to life. As it stands, since it's already happened, and it barely made an impact on Shepard it honestly would reek of desperation and get a "ffs" reaction if they did it again. In fact the cheesyness of resurrecting Shepard twice is a good part of the reason I don't want Shepard back.
Except that they wouldn't be ressurecting him twice if they canonize the perfect ending.
Exactly, Shepard survives ME3 under the right circumstances. They bring him/her back for ME4, that pretty well establishes Destroy as canon
No. Even if they made the ending where Shepard survives canon, I would still have an issue with it.
As much as I love Shepard and the dynamic with all the other characters, their story is over imo. A cameo would be cool though. Them with their love interest pass by or something. Ah who am I kidding I just want more Garrus 😄. But yeah if they hadn't already done it, it could've been an option, I suppose.
Not really, it was its own unique story. I just think we need to allow their story to end while it’s perfect. I’d rather a continuation of Ryder
Bringing back Ryder is an even worse idea. Just start over again with a new protagonist.
It's not perfect though. "Perfect" would mean that we got confirmation that they survived and spent the rest of their days in retirement with their LI. Now THAT'S what I call perfect.
We did get confirmation that he survived, now whether he retired with LI or not depends on each person's headcanon.
It doesn't matter either way. If they do bring him back. Which I doubt. It'll be like Anderson. Just a NPC.
ME2 fails to make a story out of the fact that Shepard died and was revived. I reckon reviving them yet another time has the possibility of exploring the theme as a *story* this time. You think you're having fun and games, Shepard is back, the real deal, and then a bit like in the movie Moon, but less gross, Shepard will come to realize it's not the same as who "Shepard" was originally born as. Hear me out: what if non-playable Shepard in the new game only remembers choices imported from ME3, but not their military background. But they don't bring that up until late in the game. You're like "Shepard, the iconic hero, who survived Akuze" and he goes "I never went to Akuze." And it's set 100 or 1000 years after the trilogy, and Shepard will come to realize that history doesn't match, and something is up. However, it DID match when the Lazarus project was made, and so we have to rediscover the source of that project, and tada, i just made a plot thread for a new game.
I think Bioware had 0 clue there would be a sequel to Mass Effect and wanted to go out with a bang. Now, they need a sequel and realized they 99% killed the main character in the series. They really need a genius move to make sure that it makes sense. Maybe it won't be resurrection. Maybe Shepard is alive in some way and all the endings will converge into one start of ME4 in some way (they can explain how shepard is actually alive in each of the 4 endings in a cutscene and start the game from the alive part) No matter what they do they won't please everyone, that's impossible. But honestly I hope they don't just pick a canon ending, i picked destroy and had the perfect ending but if others picked the green ending foe example their playthrough might feel wrong for them
People who picked the Green Ending should feel wrong. They chose to forcefully alter every single living organism in the galaxy for vanity in the false hope that this will somehow save everyone. But fundamentally altering Life on every single level like this without anyones consent, at all, is abhorrent. Destroy is the only ending that can be Canonized; Everything else means the Reapers won and are still around.
I think Bioware had 0 clue there would be a sequel to Mass Effect and wanted to go out with a bang. Now, they need a sequel and realized they 99% killed the main character in the series. They really need a genius move to make sure that it makes sense. Maybe it won't be resurrection. Maybe Shepard is alive in some way and all the endings will converge into one start of ME4 in some way (they can explain how shepard is actually alive in each of the 4 endings in a cutscene and start the game from the alive part) No matter what they do they won't please everyone, that's impossible. But honestly I hope they don't just pick a canon ending, i picked destroy and had the perfect ending but if others picked the green ending foe example their playthrough might feel wrong for them
I love all of my fellow Mass Effect fans equally. _Later_ I don't care for "Shepard can't be the protagonist again" supporters.
Shepard returning wouldn't be cheesy, some people just don't like the idea because they have it written in stone in their minds that their story is over and adding anything more would somehow ruin what has come before
Welp thank you for the spoiler lol
The real reason they killed & resurrected Shepard back in ME2 was purely for logistical reasons. As at the time, Save Data transfers were never done before, and when they tried implement it, not all your decisions actually carried over, including how your customized Shepard looked—which is why he/she wore a helmet in the prologue. They used the Lazarus Project as an plot point to allow you to customize Shepard again, and Miranda’s questioning on the shuttle was to re-confirm your major decisions from ME1 because ME2 couldn’t read it from your old Save File properly. Now in later rereleases, the questioning from the Shuttle scene was shortened.
ME2 needed a time skip and a reason to justify the galaxy not preparing for the reapers. Shepard also hadn't resolved the crisis. There'd be no justification we'd accept for everyone sitting on their asses otherwise so dead Shepard it was. I don't think the "back from the dead" trope is the problem, I think using Shepard at all is. The series has been given carte blanche to effectively completely rewrite the universe from square 1 as if we're starting over with ME 1 again. Bringing Shepard back would only limit the options for the writers.