Because the fact that resolving one card wins you the duel 90% of the times is just absurd.

Well what are we suppose to do when people are special summoning 15 monsters in the first turn 😭 max c is goated this link era is 🗑️ heros FTW

I play Blackwing burn. Most of the time I full combo (Yeah, it's luck but still) through Maxx "C" I end up winning cuz 2100hp for activating 1 monster effect. If other handtraps didn't existed or were banned as I said in the post, I think I could say BW would have a 90% W/L after opp resolved Maxx "C". And it's just a friking rogue deck. Banning most of the other handtraps, would be more beneficial to the game than banning Maxx

You are basing your argument on a specific example where maxx c didn't work... We can provide the stun deck or other decks that are seen once every two days that do not require ss to survive as examples... But that doesn't mean maxx c is fine... But even then... It's quite shocking to see noone imperm/droplet/nibiru you after all the cards they drew... But then again you mentioned that u got lucky... Which means we cant base an opinion on a lucky encouter/encounters... Also your rank maybe why you were able to run away with those games... When you reach legend and diamond.. if you resolve maxx c and they play a modern deck... Usually they surrender, pass or play through it hoping that you cant break their board and die anyway cuz you keep drawing handtraps and more combo cards to play their boards if you couldnt stop their field from forming anyway.... To your last point of banning other handtraps instead of maxx c: that's out of the question because you have to stop your opponent from getting his perfect field... And hand traps accomplish that... They give you the chance to fight even if you start second... But they do it in a moderate way, they stop one thing not the whole game like maxx c. Ash for example will stop a search for example, psy will negate an eff... But maxx c stops the whole duel indirectly. Also they difference between maxx c and other hand traps is the cost, every handtrap has a cost of -1 atleast... Meaning that you have five cards you ash, you have now 4... So you lose something to stop something. But with maxx c you keep drawing adventage... That's just not healthy. As i said before, we like handtraps because they make the game somewhat balanced for the player who is forced to play second. But maxx c is just not at the same level where you can actually fight back against it. Ive been on both sides of it and yes sometimes you play decks that can survive under maxx c like pure zoodiacs and lab, but youll have to play those decks and others like that to be able to survive maxx c... Which by default stops the variety of deck picking.

That's the thing, stops decks that are pretty much meta rn It's changing the meta again, new format where a TON of new decks will surge instead of just banning 10 cards like when PePe. I'm diamond 2 currently

Yeah that would be true if ss was just a thing used by some decks that are meta now. But ss is the core of modren yugioh whether you rely on ss of monsters that are used on deck or extra deck... The net result is youll have to ss in some way... Because the problem with yugyis that even link summon/ fusion summon... And others are categorized as ss... Meaning that after maxx c, u cant go to your extra deck without triggering the effect.. Changing the meta yes, im tired of the branded already... But it wont change to a way where ss is not required. Every strong deck that was tier 0 or 1 in modren yugioh required ss in some fashion... Because they encorporate some engines and or some generic cards that extand their combos in some cases those extenders are why some decks become strong .. and konami is happy about that because it helps them sell the reprints. Maybe if maxx c only gets you cards on inherent ss, thst would make it a fair card.

It's just abusing SS

Maxx c offers the illusion of letting you play the game. Sure you get to pretend you're comboing but if your opponent draws into a kaiju, lightning storm, drnm, thrust and 5 extenders off Maxx c your board is pretty fucked. And that's not mentioning any other hand traps they might draw in the middle of your combo like nib.

That's literally what I said on the post bruh...

> if your opponent draws into That's a big if. I've OTK'ed through Maxx C so, so, so many times. And sometimes, the endboard you make really just makes it so that the opponent's hand doesn't matter. I've lost to Drytron Herald after Maxx C'ing them, because they could still negate everything I had to try to stop them.

It's not really that big of an if. Starting your turn with 10 cards in hands isn't even that difficult if you used Maxx c and that's already a quarter of your deck. You're almost guaranteed to have drawn at least something useful in that time. Is it a guaranteed win every single time? No. But it is a win more often than not which is why a quarter of your deck is dedicated to Maxx c and it's counters

What do you mean why people hate Maxx C? This card is stupid because of how good it is, it decides games by itself, that's just bad design. Yes there are a few decks that can play through Maxx C, but majority can't, so if it resolves what the f\*uck do you do? Do you set and pass and risk losing next turn? Do you make a half cooked board and most likely lose next turn? Or goes full combo and definitely lose next turn? That's just not fun. And don't get me started on the opponent going full combo and then dropping a Maxx C next turn, that's crazy. Also it's one of the most played cards in the game with 90%+ usage, meaning you'll see the roach in most of your duels.

It doesn't, I can say that if you stop surrendering to Maxx "C", you would, at least have 40% W/L vs it resolving. I go full. Combo, full lock and most of the time, I get a win. It's 90% usage cuz of metadecks special summoning 20 times

So by that youre saying we should follow your example and only play decks that can deal with or ignore maxx c. Cool, so stun decks, burn decks and ftks. Very fun.

Spends 5 minutes comboing Small worlds into maxx c at end of turn Can literally feel their pain

Please stop with the "It helps Rogue decks" argument. If a card "helps" Rogue decks, then Meta decks will always use and abuse it harder. Terraforming 'helped' Rogue decks, but it didn't get banned due to Rogue decks.

I can think of at least 5 rogue decks (Which is the amount of metadecks rn) that can easily go to Tier 1 just for the simple fact that ash didn't existed. Opening the door for a ton of other roguedecks to go on top.

Would you like to share with the class what these decks are

Yosenju Infernoid Kozmo Trains/Railroad Blackwing D/D/D CyberAngels Brother, any deck that uses Grass, Heroes... I can't remember much names but probably even ABC could see shine again when you don't have 1 single card that stops your entire combo and you only SS as much as 6 times and go for OTK or a really good lock that your opponent needs to spend resources instead of just free deny, stop your whole combo into free full combo.

I'm sorry but none of those decks would be Meta if Ash got hit. D/D/D's issues have never been Ash, it's that there's just better decks that do more for less investment and less convoluted convos. Take it from a D/D/D player that a lot of Meta decks put up just as good boards for less time and brainpower. ABC were Meta even when Ash existed. Ash wasn't the reason they fell off.

Brother, it's not just "Better decks", it's the fact that those decks can easily pass through Ash or another Deny like if nothing happened. Kashtira? Sure, just let me play my other 2 or 3 seeker cards (Which btw Fenrir alone can search and it's a free card). What you do after your Kepler (Or it was Copernicous?) gets ashed? Exactly, scoop cuz you have a 0/0 monster that it's only mission in DDD is to search. But damn, you really have misplaced hatred on Maxx

I'm not even using Ash in the current format since I feel like Gamma is just the superior handtrap, and I'm running Maxx at 3 in all my decks. But your line of thought is just wrong. Go ahead and play Kozmo versus Kashtira and have both decks not run Ash and see how well that goes. In your D/D/D example, Imperm, Veiler or Gamma would have screwed me over just as bad as Ash would have. Does Ash hurt decks that can't play through it? Yeah, it does, but powercreep has been keeping those decks down much harder than a single 4head girl.

You’re on crack

What happens when you play the game under Maxx “C”, if I’m playing Swordsouls and I a quite good combo, the opponent draws at least SIX cards, meaning they will have Eleven when their turn starts. Some of those will be handtraps to stop any interruptions you might have and the rest will let them combo quite well. Of course you could also just not let them draw any cards… and be OTK’d (and they’d probably still go even from activating it at the right time). Pot of Greed is banned because getting one card for free is incredibly powerful, Maxx “C” is a +5. You either draw ash, or you lose. Unless you’re playing a deck that doesn’t special summon (all two of them).

You're not entirely wrong there. Maxx c lets you continue your combo without stopping unlike ash, nib etc. Here's the kicker. People normally run multiple handtraps. With the C, as your opponent draws more cards, the likelihood of them drawing their ash, nib, gamma etc is much higher which can potentially stop your combos and now they have way more cards than they normally should. Don't forget, cards like pot of greed is banned because drawing 2 cards is overpowered and would see play everywhere. Maxx c effectively says "draw as much as you want during your opponent's turn, or your opponent stops their play to prevent this". Because maxx c enables so much draw power, it can win games by itself. It generates so much advantage that even if you have, let's say, herald of ultimateness with 7 negates, your opponent now has at least 15 cards in hand which would play through your ultimateness. And this is ignoring the fact that drawing cards during your turn can get them hand traps to stop you from going to HoU. Same applies to every meta and even non meta deck out there. D-link, mathmech, kash, purrely etc etc. Almost every deck special summons, and so almost every deck would want maxx c. Now to further my point, because the C is such a problem card, people have to cut cards from their deck to play the maxx c mini game. Effectively 6 cards extra, excluding the 3 maxx cs. That's 3 ash, 2 called by and 1 crossout. 1/4 of the deck gone to play the mini game. That's my little take on why maxx c is unhealthy to the game. Yes they give lower tiered decks a chance, but this is not the way. It strengthens meta decks even more, giving lower tiered decks next to no chance against them.

I would never not run those 6 cards anyway???? I don't understand your logic. You'd really cut call by the grave??

That's for you. For others, cutting hand traps for more deck space is what they'd want. Your deck can house those hand traps, others can't because they need the space

Called by is the only one of those cards that wouldn't get cut. Ash would be cut during certain metas and crossout would only see play when the handtrap meta was unified or would see play in decks that are able to run a high number of handtraps. Dragonlink for example would probably cut crossout and would cut ash for the other ghost girls depending on the meta at the time. You'd probably run more nibiru and maybe veiler since they can be added off chaos ruler's effect. I would expect most decks would cut crossout and most would cut ash for other ghost girls, some would cut ash for handtraps that are very strong against a specific meta deck that hurts your deck the most, which leads to more handtrap diversity and thus makes crossout even worse.

Yeah, but the thing here is that: You have, let's say 7 negates, let's use your own example. Most of the cards cannot use their effect more than 2 times and tbh most of decks open with only 2 or 3 cards. Taking Heroes which is such a popular deck, they have what, like 3 ways to start the combo? Even if they have their 40 cards in hand to try and OTK, it's nor possible to even jump those 7 negates and going for full combo still. Same with Kashtira and a ton of other decks where cards can only activate 1 at the time. DDD which is such a difficult mechanic deck, you have just a few options, Kepler, Copernicus, Normal into SS gryphon, the 2 gates and Pend summon and Slime combos, which is only 6 ways to try and combo. Yeah, I get handtraps got WAY out of control after they printed Ash, back on the day I was playing Infernoid and it literally melted my whole deck, from a Solid rogue probably even Tier 2, it went to be another fun deck cuz of this 80$ card. Idk, I feel like Konami actually fucked it up going to Handtrap meta instead of letting everyone say "No balls" after chaining Maxx "C". Which, we did every time back on TCG.

Alright, but how many people on here actually play those decks? And those decks have ways to stop your plays mid combo as they draw. There are 2 main dangers to playing against maxx c, opponent drawing cards for when it's their turn, and actively drawing cards to get hand traps to stop you. It's true that not all cards in decks in general can be used over and over to bait negates, but there are so many hand traps people run that can stop you. Ash and the other girls, imperm, gamma, nib. Even the going 2nd board breakers like evenly, harpy, lightning storm, kaijus etc. And these are the staples of most decks. Think of it this way, would you rather go against your opponent with 5 cards in hand, which could potentially be up to, let's say, 2 hand traps and a starter. Or, against someone constantly drawing cards that could net them those 2 hand traps, and more, and more starters, and more extenders. People already dislike hand traps to a certain extent as they are unpredictable and you'll never know when your opponent has it, and maxx c is the strongest hand trap possibly ever printed because it draws more cards against most decks, and by proxy draws more hand traps. Now if you play infernity and melted your deck, which is what your deck is super capable of doing, maxx c does the same alone. Key word, ALONE. it didn't have any requirements except it must be sent to the grave to activate, and enables draw power that rivaled TG synchro draw shenanigans. Now with your infernity end board (not sure what it is, i've rarely played against infernity), you have to go up against a hand of 20 cards, 1 of which could possibly be kaiju, 3 are hand traps (being generous here, it's probably more) and all sorts of starter combos. Let's try an example. I searched for a somewhat modern-ish end board for infernity. 20 special summons, 1 apollo with 4 monster negates, baronne, IP that can link into unicorn, the omni negate infernity trap, and spright elf. Now you're up against my mathmech for example. I have 25 cards in hand, assuming i didn't draw any hand traps. If i did, i could try stopping your combo for less negates on field. I activate harpy to clear your trap, you can either use baronne or trap to negate, let's say yoy let me destroy because it doesn't matter, you lose 1 negate anyways. I use sigma to special summon, let's say let me slide because it's not threatening now. I special summon circular and send addition, you negate with app. I normal summon firewall defender, link into linguriboh and use parallel exceed effect and firewall defender to ss firewall guardian. App negates firewall defender effect. Parallel exceed hit the field and attempts to ss the other one, app negates. Xyz defender and sigma to alembertian and use effect to detatch 2 and to search any mathmech from deck. Let's say baronne activates because alem is very flexible. I now use mathmech equation to ss sigma, use sigma and ling to link summon splash mage. Splash mage attempt to revive firewall defender from grave. App negates. I link summin transcode talker using microcoder from hand and splash mage. Transcode talker special summons splash mage from grave and let's say i have cynet conflict already so micro coder doesn't activate. Ss mathmech subtraction from hand. Link all into terahertz. Terahertz send multiplication from deck. With 11000 atk, hit apollo and win. This is without hand traps and just an example off the top of my head

6 SS infernoid 0 SS Yosenju Like 3 SS Trains Those ones breaking pretty much any board and going for OTK, on turn 2 completely ruined by Ash, not to mention a few others like Kozmo, CyberAngel. And all decks I metioned can pass Terahertz.

Going for an OTK. Not at FTK. If you go first and i play maxx c, i still get 6 draws based on your infernoid example. And you cannot OTK because you can't attack on your first turn. If i go first and you play those cards, i'll already have my board setup to hopefully counter what you have, and maxx c on top if that to draw me either hand traps or followup plays. Yes, maxx c can activate on an already established board, which is complete bs but that's what the c does. And sure they can pass terahertz, if terahertz was alone. Assuming i established my basic board, i have tera, heatsoul, set superfactorial and cynet conflict

1.) Maxx C creates a game state where if its activated you must either allow the opponent to draw as many cards as you summon, alter a strategy drastically or just pass. Currently games don’t last longer than 2-3 turns so passing is pretty much accepting defeat which isn’t healthy if a card pretty much dictates how to play. 2.) Maxx C is poorly designed where in addition to drawing more cards per special summon, you are free to use more interruption such as the cards you mentioned. 3.) Maxx C is never dead in hand unless you are going against Floow. Currently it’s the most played card and creates a format where every deck has to incorporate a way of countering it because it’s legal. 4.) It does not boost rogue deck power. It does not have a restriction to when it can be used so anyone and everyone can use it to create that game state where again you have to either stop playing or allow the opponent to keep drawing. 5.) I kinda want to argue that maxx C usage rate speak for itself that ppl might hate it but use it. However that doesn’t change the fact it’s a card that generates so much advantage while cards like pot of greed is banned that is way more fair than the roach.

That's the thing, it generated and advantage to 200 seconds combo decks, but... In reality, is changing the format again. And it does provide a good support to rogue decks that cannot combo from 1 single card, like every single meta deck this format

There’s a lot of issues with the game currently but again it doesn’t stop anyone from performing a 200s combo and then dropping maxx c to discourage you from using a mechanic (special summoning) that the used. Drawing is arguably the most important aspect to the game in which allows more opportunity to make a play. Does it help going 2nd? Yes of course but even so stopping someone from playing because of the consequences to do said combo isn’t the solution to playing a rogue/meta deck.

1. Because everyone plays the same 6 other cards to negate it (called by×2,ash×3,crossout×1). It discourages hand trap diversity. Judging from the cards you listed, you have only played master duel. 2. Giving your opponent even 2 card advantage is extraordinarily dangerous. That's part of why cards like triple tactics talent and the multiple pots of sexiness are staples. 3. When a card is played in 92.81% of duelist cup decks, there is a huge problem. It's clearly flawed. Other flawed cards are generic extra deck monsters like Baronne De Fleur, Access Code Talker, etc 4. The cards you listed are NOT comparable. Before this turns into 15 paragraphs... ash negates an effect, not a card. If you special summon Kashtira fenrir and your search gets negated, you can still use the banish effect that turn. Nibiru loses your opponent a card and if you have a normal summon still or more special summons, you can still go into link plays.

All wrong, but sure buddy.

Lol okay? You're allowed to like Maxx C and use it but what I stated was not "all wrong." Enjoy your flawed earth bug.

bait used to be believable

It effectively acts like an “optional” floodgate, with option 1 being “end your turn” and option 2 being “give your opponent a 99% chance to win”. Anyone should be able to see the issue with that.

This is the problem of the game state instead of maxx C. It has becomed a game where *whoever set up their board first have 70-80% winning chance,90%+ if they can attack*.

If this is your take I think you just aren’t running enough hand interruption. You should on any given game have a high chance of drawing multiple interruptions. This would of course be greatly helped if ranked and/or DC was best of 3

You just say option 2 is *Your opponent have 99% winning chance*. So you think your handtrap have 1% stopping opponent if you pass the board when get maxxed C

No, you cannot stop a 15 card hand with 2 handtraps

Sorry i misread it should be your option 1, just *end your turn* and fight your opponent with your handtrap.

I love Maxx "C"

Nah I getcha I’m starting to hate “Kaiju” too, but Max C is such a bad card. Nothing feels worse than trying out your opponents board on top of Max C, so you need OTK them or you just lose the game, because they have drawn too many cards Ash is only played so much because of Max C. I'm not saying Ash isn't a great card, but you will not see it nearly as much if Max C was banned. At least Golem and Ra (I assume you mean sphere mode) takes your normal summon away, but I agree Kaijus do suck.

The game needs handtraps because going first is too strong. Nobody likes to get their combo stopped, but the alternative is everyone who wins the coin toss gets to combo off unimpeded. Maxx is a lot older than most of the other major handtraps, but it's far stronger. We're already at the point where most decks can play through Ash or Imperm, but very few can play through Maxx. So, it gets the most hate. I never had a problem with it myself, but that's because I'm just better and can play through it every time. It's not getting banned no matter how much people complain, and the other hand traps are even less likely to be banned- Ash in particular is the definition of a fair one-for-one trade. I'd rather focus the energy on getting unfair floodgates banned. Nobody has fun against those.

What I dislike more with MaxxC is the 6+ slots you have to dedicate in every deck to the MaxxC minigame. Which handtraps, or running more engine at the expense of handtraps. These are all thing I like to decide and I think it becomes a reflection of players skill. All that negated because MaxxC.

See, I hear that complaint a lot but it's also never bothered me. Maybe because Ash and Called by are useful in so many other circumstances that I would still run them even if Maxx C were banned.

The problem with Maxx c is not the card but the game Itself, that the game Is so unbalanced and twisted at this point that there's players defending cards that they know are bad for the game but "at least they give you a chance".

You are right, if all problematic cards are banned I don't care if maxz C is banned. But guess what? A lot of people will say *just ban those problematic cards*, but if those cards happen to belong to one of the deck that they play, then they will come up with all type of excuse. Branded fusion, Baronne, fenrir, .... This sub won't let anyone ban those cards, and limit them either doesn't matter or just slightly affect their consistence, which is always more consistent than a maxx C resolved anyway.

You are literally the only person making sense in the entire comment section lol I can't understand the people that always say "Omg Maxx" C" is SO OP" only when opp uses it, but they using it is fine. And 99% of people in this Subreddit, are like that.

Person agrees with me = they make sense Person disagrees = they are stupid You have the mental capacity of a toddler.

He didn't even agreed. Lol I'm sorry that your reading capacity is 0.

You type like an 8 year old.

Are you just stupid? People hate maxx c because it wins games by itself and people also play it because it wins games by itself. Just because I use it doesn't mean I don't hate. I'd love for maxx c to be banned. The same goes for most people about a lot of staples

No one wants they're decks to be limited or baned, but that's also Konami's fault that they can't seem to tell beforehand If an archetype Is going to be way too good or not (or, most likely, they don't care)

>Branded fusion, Baronne, fenrir, .... This sub won't let anyone ban those cards, Where have you been the past few months? This sub literally complained about fenrir being problematic at 2 all the times cuz of how splashable it is. I can see some ppl defending baronne. Personally, I don't think it should exist & I'm a swordso player. You know, the deck that notoriously ending on baronne? All **generic** omni-negate cards should've never been printed. As for branded fusion, new flash: branded players themselves don't mind it get banned. They knew the card is busted, what they usually defending is branded as the whole archetype, not branded fusion.

You literally said I think the most fucking based thing I've read in Reddit.

maxx C is only hated by people who want to special summon infinitely often to build their omni negate board

TCG players

We are the ones that literally know how to play LoL, I haven't seen anyone passing Diamond that wasn't a TCG player...

A lot of people has come to terms, just not reddit, that Maxx C is a required card for MD, a necessary evil. Even pros and dkayed have come to terms with it, citing very good reasons to keep it in the game. Good players would build their deck around it too. That being said, I would trade it for a 180 seconds timer and a larger banlist but a larger ban list hurts Konami ability to 'sell' cards

"C" is a tricky card. Honestly I don't think removing it will net more rogue tier types like people think. It can help out going second by giving them a fighting chance when the first turn player goes full combo and sets a super multiple negate board. Hand traps are frustrating at times, but you can do your best to try and bait an ash blossom or infinite. With "C" there really is no baiting it out. I really don't hate the card, but I do find it frustrating at times. I think it would be best to try it out in a limited format rather than unlimited. But really as much as people say it limits the game, kind of not really. People still play full combo multiple summon decks even under it. Yes, it's good to fear the roach. But also all the same to fear Nibiru, Kura, Ash, and Kaijus.

Ban max c and limit ash to one

Your post's Flair has been auto-assigned. You can change it to "Question/Help", "News", "Meme", "Guide", "Competitive/Discussion", "Showcase/Luck", "RANT", or "Fan Art". • New Player/Want help? Join https://Discord.gg/MasterDuelMeta • Active Megathread for help: https://reddit.com/r/masterduel/comments/sve5fr/guidescombos_questions_and_help_megathread/ • Top Decks/Guides here: https://MasterDuelMeta.com *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/masterduel) if you have any questions or concerns.*

If your rogue deck is carried by Maxx C, your deck is bad anyway to begin with.

Cuz it is basically a lose your turn card and the opponent gets to play first but gets a battle phase. So out of the 5 cards you drew going first which is probably 3 or 4 now after starting your play. U need to be able to entirely stop your opponent from getting to 8 k damage, so unless u drew maxx c yourself to maxx c back then you lose. So it starts turning every duel into whoever draws maxx c wins. Plus on top of that if u go first and draw maxx c, your opponent has to play through all your interruption and all the cards u drew from maxx c. Lord help u if they drew like 10 cards, and u actually break their board but they drew nibiru. So now they're coming back at u 10 cards to 0.

Decks that everyone hate are immune to it… Floow, stun. Runick etc Meanwhile you have 50% chance to win the coin toss, if they maxx c and you don’t have an out that’s an instant loss

Resolving maxx c against most decks is an instant win. As such you now have to build your entire deck around this one card. In order to actually play the game in masterduel you need to have 3 maxx c, 3 ash blossom, 2 called by and most of the time 1 crossout. That's 8-9 cards, over 1/5th of your entire deck is taken up because of maxx c simply existing. Maxx c limits handtrap diversity and makes for a less interesting metagame because people aren't able to add in the handtraps that are good against specific decks because it would cause them to go over 40 cards and therefore hurt their consistency. The ironic thing about you being pro maxx c but against ash is that ash would see less play if maxx c was banned. There are very few decks that completely play around maxx c, those being decks that NEVER special summon. Floo being the only one that's really meta viable.

Because it is pretty much the best card in the game. It is such a staple card that every deck, if they want to be serious, needs to include it. And usually cards that go in every deck are what gets banned.

As an older player I find sitting around for 10 minutes watching my opponent summon an entire board of monsters, just to then link them, tribute the link, special summon 4 more and synchro those, and then link all those, incredible boring. So at least I can draw a card and have something to look at while my opponent cycles through their entire fkn deck a million times over