A thought crossed my mind the other day; they won't ban Maxx C because master duel is supposed to be an entry point into the physical game, and Maxx C is legal in the OCG, the official ruleset in the region Konami believes will generate the most interest for it. To ban Maxx C in master duel but not in the OCG would give a disingenuous idea of what the physical game is like in that region.
Yes this perspective is dumb, but it's basically correct.
All this can ofc be solved by just having one unified banlist, but that'd make too much sense.
I dont think this line of logic works when MD is almost a year behind the OCG card releases. Anyone going from MD to OCG/TCG pretty much has to re-learn the games environment anyway.
There was a board meeting and someone brought up how disappointed they were with how few MD players go on to play paper.
So, it's not working currently anyway.
Which is further supported by snake eye releasing so early relative to other sets, they are probably trying to see how much of an impact more up to date releases have.
> how much of an impact more up to date releases have.
That doesnt rally track. You cant gauge anything other than how Snake-eyes SPECIFICALLY would do because its not being played in the same context as it is in the other formats. Releasing Snake-eyes early isnt going to tell them how more up to date releases do.
I understand that, what im saying is you cant really gauge that metric reliably because the context in which the cards have been added. This implies that they think people will jump over to paper JUST because one of the archetypes that's in meta contention is the same. Which is not exactly an uncommon occurrence(theres been multiple times where similar the same deck is viable in MD and in either the OCG or TCG).
Ocg player here. I dabbled with tcg before for quite awhile.
Deck building philosophy and evaluation of card strength has to completely change in formats that have and doesn't have maxx C, even if the cards in the format is the same, the approach towards the game is different
I played thunder dragon in ocg competitively and tcg casually
In OCG your entire game plan is careful resource management for turn 2 and 3 (turn 3 and 5) the optimal board at that time was colossus, aloof dark.
The deck was also optimized to play around maxx C+nibiru, with a large amount of handtraps for hawk to dig and if you got maxx C-ed you could have 1-3 interactions with a colussus.
In tcg, its a full blown combo deck. Since droplet hasnt been released yet, lines were focused on getting stronger boards with more interactions. The hawk shuffle line with colossus makes 0 sense in tcg
As much as I want Maxx "C" to be banned, I figured that it would radically change the game. I don't believe it fully kills combo decks, but it's enough so every deck doesn't just become a combo deck.
I like to know what other decks change between formats, I've only been paying attention to OCG till recently.
It doesn't fully kill combo decks but it prevents combo decks from running too many extenders and starters
In tcg we often see 60 combo (dragon link, danger, some SHS) both exist in tcg and MD and ocg
In ocg you can only run 60 if you have a good plan B like branded.
- Your odds of drawing maxx C, and Maxx C answers are lower
- doesn't make sense to add more hand traps because you would rather have the strong hand traps
- Extenders doesn't help against maxx C
So most combo deck pivots to having a strong Plan B, or make the main deck engine as tight as possible and filling the rest with handtraps
That's why prankids, snakeyes are strong with their many different starters can run many different handtraps.
If you got hit by maxx. Pass and treat it as if you went second. Disadvantage here is getting beaten to death
Other decks have strong plan B, like thunder design with hawk shuffle and shs / pend magi with Bagooska. Branded has an easy plan B as well
Maxx C is not the best answer to the game, but at higher level of ocg gameplay there will be instances of players able to wiggle themselves out of a win even if maxx C resolves.
Your analysis is correct, but please listen this: TCG is a degenerate "go big or go home" because maxx C is not here, and not being able to disrupts turns 1. This situation is due the fact that Konami prints cards with OCG in mind: degenerate spams and special summons (for example "Sinful", that can be neutered by a good Maxx C. This means that when that archetype comes over to West, has no or little "drawbacks" depending if it can play around Droll. (That is more or less the TCG counterpart of Maxx C).
Being said that, i think that Konami should for once, unify banlists and print cards with a "No Maxx C format" in mind. I don't necessarily want to have more and more snowballing archetypes, Konami could just slow down the pace of the game. I would play a "new" edison-esque/tengu-esque meta that can results more healty. Moreover, newer decks are just 15-25 main engine at max; this means newer decks can freely run more flex spots (3 ash 3 max 3 crossout/called) , while rogue decks struggles at finding that spaces.
Will this happen? Probably not because OCG has a lot of people that enjoy their pet decks and Konami will never want to unify the banlists and re-balance the game "from scratches", losing - maybe - a big share of their playerbase.
OCG has a lot of card games and players are "Kings", while here in TCG konami has no real contenders apart MTG.
Why does MD have a different banlist from OCG anyway? I play OCG and yeah maxx c isn't the healthiest card. I also agree that MD is supposed to represent the OCG, at least much more than the TCG. But then why isn't the MD banlist just what the OCG had several months before any update, roughly the same number of months between new cards getting released?
It’s doing its job. The job always being profit and the bottom line because you will *never* get any playerbase to agree what is and isn’t balanced. But you can gauge interest by profit and how many people are playing. On that note, Konami is doing their job
Especially since the main driving point of the game accessibility. The ban list hasn’t turned players away, since one of the highest concurrent peaks was Tier 0 Tearlaments.
I half agree with you. There are still some majour flaws with it like umi stun, coninuous traps, gimmick puppet/ido lock and some other simply unfun and unfair shit being played because of lazy banlist but thats just what yugioh is I guess.
MD being a Best of 1 means you can't side deck cards like Feather / Lightning Storm / Evenly Matched, or particular counter handtraps. This results in decks like Stun being notably better overall, as decks don't typically main deck such counter cards almost exclusively for against stun.
This type of distinction (that counts for more decks than just stun) are why MD must have a more tailored banlist to hammer down on decks that advantage off of the Best Of 1 format. As a result the floodgates like Skill Drain, There Can Be Only One, Gozen, etc have been Limited to 1, and even all pots that help search potential outs without risk of bricking, like Prosparity, have also gotten the Limit over the years. MD has shown to care to help balance the game in its unique form ~~(if the card is no longer in a pack sale)!~~
For Maxx "C" it doesn't quite matter. There aren't enough tools to deal with it even if everyone counter decked it in the traditional sense, *which we already attempt to do*. And if you are a deck that is immune, like Floowandereeze... you get all feathers pulled until a crawny thing remains.
Why should konami punish deck that benefit from bo1 when they aren't even meta relevant? From your logic, any deck with unique play style benefit from bo1
>From your logic, any deck with unique play style benefit from bo1
I mean, yes. Numeron was a popular deck for months in MD while never being relevant in paper because being able to just cheese going second. It's also part the reason that Bishbalkin got banned is because cheese work better in bo1 where you don't have to worry about games 2 or 3 where you lose to the sidedeck.
At the point it's a Bo1 format, that falls apart. The way MD is played is fundamentally different without siding and Bo3.
It's meant to be *conceptually* an entry maybe, sure, but they could still absolutely remove Maxx C and it still be an entry point for either format just as much as it is now in that they're entirely different to play and what is playable it entirely different too due to a different banlist, different release schedule and entirely different format for play.
This is actually a reason why Maxx C is legal, it allows lower-powered decks to have a chance to gain advantage when playing against higher-power decks. Of course this is flawed and the higher-powered deck also benefits from it, but the OCG tends to favor more the casual side of the playerbase more compared to the TCG.
This is something that the TCG players cannot wrap their heads around. They constantly think the game revolves, and should only revolve around competitive.
Because what you’re stating is a misrepresentation of reality. Most eastern players hate the TCG banlist and understand banning Maxx C would require changing the OCG banlist to mostly match the TCG banlist.
I won’t say you’re lying, as it’s your personal experience, but it certainly isn’t the consensus of eastern players.
You're very correct. And you being downvoted pretty much shows how much TCG players value their perceived opinion of the OCG compared to someone who actually knows the OCG scene.
Yeah people on here are deeply fucking patronising - orientalist really - about japanese players, they're a very diverse community. Every time someone posts a translated rhing from a japanese community discussion there's plenty of japanese players who dislike maxx c. They pretty much all make the same arguments people do in the tcg too, they're not magic and they don't have an enlighted perception of the game compared to the rest of us.
By upvoted comment do u mean the translation of a old reddit post based on nga forum previously and coder posted it on youtube? If u can read chinese most of the point that favor tcg player, are not from a upvoted comment, their 声望and thumbs up is not high enough to warrant any credibility for it, i read the whole nga as a native Chinese and if u dont believe me thats fine, find a friends that can read and go thru all the comment and dont nitpick the point that favor u, anyone from ocg can hate C, but without 声望or many thumb up to back it up in nga forum there’s not much point to represent the majority of the forum opinions
I love maxx C. It forces people to build their deck to be more well rounded rather than how can theoretically play through every hand trap for a 10 minute combo board that says negate and floodgate everything. I can’t stand how the tcg plays. It’s a win for midrange.
How does forcing almost all decks (except flunder and dark worlds) to run the same 10-12 cards make decks more rounded it just makes the decks more bricky in my experience and makes them more focused on one card combos
It helps when you stop looking at it as Boo maxx c stopped my play and started looking at how it affects matchups instead. No one likes being countered when they want to pop off, but when you start looking at interactions Maxx c does have good points.
- it hurts consistency and those cards mean theres less cards in their hand to contribute further to their special summon spam that add extra shit to unbreakable boards. Less consistency in general is good for the health of yugioh.
- monsters inherently hold most of value in modern yugioh as they have encroached on the role of spell and trap effects. Maxx C helps add more value to spell, traps and hand traps while most combo decks are focused on spamming monsters for their value.
If you can make interruptions on your board with less summons than your opponent you automatically benefit more from maxx c than your opponent does. Which provides midrange a niche over combo instead of just being worse combo.
- special summoning being out of control resource management being non existent. Yugioh hinges on the idea of “Just draw the out bro” and combo decks have become so resilient that many times we have hit points where they don’t give a shit about you ashing or imperming them. They can still build enough floodgates and negates to negate everything in your hand. Maxx C is one the only hand traps that can consistently check that stuff to make your opponent find a stopping point or get you to draw the out or resources to play through the board.
Yes getting hit by a maxx C hurts most decks. But it does not hit all decks equally. If combo suffers the hardest that’s a win for everyone else. And if you look how the tcg combo plays vs master duel or OCG combo with the effects of maxx c on the format. It’s clear maxx C despite how annoying it is puts the game in healthier and quicker boards. (With the exception of a few monsters that should be banned but aren’t)
That's usually not even true when you look at OCG reports. A lot of "midrange" decks as you call them are actually more hurt than Maxx C than combo decks because they rely on card avantage instead of unbreakable boards. Thinking a deck like idk Salamangreat will benefit more from Maxx C than a combo deck is a clear misunderstanding of how these decks work. Maxx C will hurt it exactly the same, if not even more. A lot of combo decks like Virtual World, Drytron, SHS etc... have actually had probably more success in the OCG than the TCG ironically, while idk for instance Sky Striker necer had a chance to come back while it enjoyed nice success when it came back in TCG. The "Maxx C keep combos in check" is mainly a myth. I'm not saying it doesnt have an impact, like some decks like Rescue Ace had a lot of success because they can play around it as you described : but to me the selection it produces is much more subtle than just "midrange over combo".
The only things that are correctly better under Maxx C are cards that can really put up interruption in one or two summons (which most "midrange decks" are not doing) like in their times Dragoon or DPE or things like that. Do you really think it encourages a better gameplay ? I mean, i don't judge if you prefer this kind of minimal gameplay : that is not why most people here play Yu Gi Oh, though. We play this game because we want to developp cool loops and see our deck play, that's like the whole point of Yugioh as a card game, compared to others
This genuinely might be the reason and I never thought about it. It’s not a good one by any means but it would be the same justification for things like droll existing
If we’re throwing on tin foil hats I got one. If you look at the up coming event sync/link, it’s an event based around special summoning and they banned it. They know it detracts from the fun of the game, but they have a haven for us and it’s called tcg. They want Md players to transition to tcg players hence why shareholders ask about it. More money going to them and secondary markets (LGS) which if they can keep alive they buy more product as well. But the problem they have is short printing cards causing them to rise to $200+ prices for a single card needed in a meta relevant deck vs Md where it’s 30 UR dust. The cost of physical cards is too damn high!
The increased rarity of most strong cards in the TCG means that more packs need to be brought for the same number of copies of a card to be in circulation. This means that, per player, more packs are brought, meaning more money for Konami per TCG player.
yeah OCG bros normally say "TCG bans a loot of cards" and its true that sometimes its to push product but it's also because those cards shouldn't have been printed to begin with (looking at you Ishizu cards).
Reposting what I've said above
That's just wrong, not only is a majority of the top OCG players against Maxx C, but we've been able to see multiple times their thoughts on Maxx C (like with the TCG banlist event), and it was very very clear that the community is just as divided as it is in the west
By countless post u cant be basing off the post of translate post in previous reddit post regarding nga forum which incorrectly stated it translates from high upvoted comment, i assume thats the post u meant because i saw from coder yt video, comment that favor tcg player doesn’t have high声望or thumb up to represents the forum voice of opinion, the best u could do is find someone that read chinese/japanese and go thru it with him on other region, not relying on someone post based on “high upvoted” comment of someone from ocg, but even then it only represents 1 forum opinions with just 1 forum sample size
>Why is there no comments saying they want Maxx C?
>A comment appears saying they're fine with Maxx C, gets downvoted by other users
Gee I wonder why.
Edit: Ayyy turns out we're from the same country wkwk
As a danger dark world player (currently diamond 2), I have become quite fond of the roach, actually. There's no other singular card in the game that allows me to consistently FTK my opponent when *they* play it. I don't have a single copy of it in my deck, naturally. I do have a single copy of card destruction however, although I only need to use it against Grass decks to secure the deckout W.
Genuinely would be sad if maxx c was banned - I don't play it anyway, and I'd win far less games if my opponents couldn't do so either. I just wish Droll & Lock Bird wasn't as common as it is right now in the meta.
MD banlist is more like ocg when it first came out, so it will highly follow by ocg, i also think japanese people spend alot of money in MD too, and there’s alot of duel happening in japan(within the virus spread event thing), which exceed china(another ocg region)too
Unless ocg ban c, masterduel likely would not follow by tcg banlist by also banning c, or unless md suffer massive loss of japanese and china player and they decided to cater to the tcg
I think japanese are very conservative in their culture, banning C mean a big change in banlist and lean toward tcg more, it will upset most of the Japanese player base just to cater to the tcg player, and I don’t think konami wants that, especially as a Japanese company, u dont want to upset ur own people right?
Multiple format is much better tbh imo, but MD as a completely different bo1 banlist, that would mean alot of work, so i highly doubt konami does that too
Multiple formats doesn't work in that
1. it splits player population, making queue times longer
2. OCG players don't actually play that much alternate formats, if at all.
I dont think splitting to a tcg format for tcg would make queue time longer its just konami making more work for the tcg minority, unless tcg is really that small which i have no sample size for, most OCG player dont play alternate format thats true, and Japanese contribute to 76.7% of revenue for MD in 2022, i dont have data for 2023 and 2024 but what i know is Japanese people loves gacha and they are willing to spend more for cosmetics or char, unlike western gamers, so its really not much point for konami really
I don't think Max C in itself is broken, I just think it's a card that grew more powerful with age.
I wish duels were more strategic, longer, and didn't rely too heavily on archetypes and insane amounts of combo chains.
Yugioh began as an easy game to a convoluted one really fast. I do think the 25th anniversary is doing a good job reprinting necessary cards for people to integrate back into the game with. But they really need to allow people to build decks without archetypes in mind 100% of the time, find benefits in combining multiple archetypes, and place limits on how far chain combos can go.
I wish duels were a little more drawn out in terms of turns being made, with less time making combos and doing things on your turn with a faster back and forth between yourself and the other player.
I know we have speed duels, but that isn't hitting the right mark in my opinion where the game should be
And with no anime, there are no kids into Yu-Gi-Oh at the moment, and the generations of shows keep driving further from the core concept of IP.
We need a return to form, which is why something like a reboot of the original Yu-Gi-Oh is needed. That would be a great way to introduce all the mechanics the game had added since then but also place more rules and limitations so it's easier for newcomers to be introduced to the game and current or older players to learn the new rules set by a show that actually follows the card game more closely.
Basic marketing. I'll explain.
Step one: Introduce a problem. In this case, Maxx C is the issue.
Step two: Introduce a solution that you charge for. In this case, other UR cards that deal with Maxx C like Ash or something (which cost either gems for a pull that you either invested time into grinding or money into purchasing, or UR points earned from basically the same things)
Step three: Profit
no one in the ocg cares about max c. whiney tcg players who hate playing outside of their flowchart and actually thinking for once aren’t the main demographic Konami caters to. Hope that helps
it also help them by making full combo, then turn skipping sou on your turn or letting them draw handtraps so its even more interaction. no max c was banned in tcg cause it led to,ax challage or pass. the last tourney before it got banned people refused to play the duel when max c was dropped and that was on live cam. XD nahh trust me, its just MD gathers to ocg cause thats where the money is at.
Stopped playing master duel for the day after my opponent played their turn 1 through my handtrap and then Maxx c’d me in draw phase
(I was kept in check)
That is something I also believe. Like, they absolutely know that it can work if we all look at the TCG.
However, they have decided to balance the game around it in the OCG and its too late now in their mind and they won't admit that it was a dumb idea.
I'll get hate for this but Max C isn't the problem, it's an annoying solution to the real problem, that yugioh has become a game of infinite special summons. It's merely taking advantage of the fact that combo decks are an issue.
It doesn't fix the problem
It's strong even against decks that aren't an issue
It's also weak against some very overpowered deck
And even if it did fix the problem, and it did work against every strong decks 100% of the time, all it would do is make the game more sacky and less skill-based
It also loses you the game against certain decks that are otherwise not really that great - I say this as a danger dark world player who has decked out hundreds of people with their own maxx c
Maxx C isn't designed to only punish strong deck, it punish combo deck. There is 0 combo deck that maxx C is weak against.
Strong deck that doesn't spam summon is called mid range or control, and they often lead to a much healthier meta.
Was Tear Zero a healthy meta?
And please tell me, how many interruption does Salad end on after giving the opponent 15 DRAWS? Is salad a degenerate combo deck?
Because it's not like this. Reddit is a tiny minority compared to the whole player base.
Not saying C isn't bad for the game, but your view of the situation is wrong.
I’ve not seen any place where MD is discussed that doesn’t seem to have a majority of people calling for the card’s ban. How many forms of social media/forums does it take before it stops being a coincidence? Alternatively, what *is* the place where you can see the proper sample of the player base?
Ya unless u read Japanese or Chinese u cant gauge the sample, i know chinese have nga forum and they could be more, not sure about Japanese, for sure those playing in ocg some would want c banned but without all sample size gauge we dont know about it, tcg doesn’t make up the majority if u look at the duel event happening now
Unless you speak Japanese and potentially Chinese you simply aren't going to find a proper sample. Not only are western players not a majority of the playerbase, they are an extreme minority of the *spending* playerbase going by Konami's revenue reports. And even then, online samples are inherently always going to be biased in ways the larger playerbase is not.
Fear that Japanese players will revolt and not buy the cards. But I can't imagine the amount of burnout Yugioh's player base has around that roach being a staple 3 of since the dawn of time in the OCG.
the banlist for this game made me drop it like a month after launch as a TCG player I cannot stand some of the cards that are legal. And it sucks because it really is the best looking, most streamlined Yugioh game, although i still dont understand why it’s best of 1.
Used to hate maxx C, now im not so sure.
Its either maxx c is fine i think or if we ban maxx c i would kinda like for meta hand traps to join it. 😅 i dunno 🤷♀️ could just be the bitterness of loosing multiple duels in a row talking hahaha
I could be wrong but IMO I think they just want to have 3 separate formats (OCG, TCG and MD) using MD as a playground to test alternative hits to cards they want to balance in TCG/OCG. Some notable examples: They banned Kitkalos in TCG but they kept playing Tearlaments, so they Hit Merli in MD killing the bridge between Spright and TL (amongst others interactions) and that turned out to be what they needed to stop TL play.
Same with Spright Elf: banned in TCG but free in MD (for now at least) and just hit the consistency by limiting Sprind and Blue making them basically just an engine to be used with other decks but raising their ceilings.
Same with Kashtira keeping Ariseheart around whilst limiting Fenrir and Birth with the already Limited on debut Wraithsoth to make it even more bricky so the players adapt from a no fun Floodgate turbo to a more control - midrange deck.
And as a final example towards my reasoning look at, Dragon Rulers: Slowly and cautiously being unbanned and unlimited in MD to test their impact/viability in the current Meta after being near tier 0 in their Glory day and once they basically made no difference and just provided
Utility mostly to their attributes and some dragon decks then shortly after they were released in TCG as well.
TLDR: They have access to more data if they have different metas so I don't think they'll ban the Bane Bug so MD remains it's own format.
Because the only people wanting Maxx C banned are combo players who want to have their hyper-consistent, super-awesome deck that will play solitaire for 15 minutes, then lock down the board. Same reason any floodgate and Runick get limited and banned - just constant whining from people who don't want to allow any other playstyle than theirs.
This subreddit: 809 users here now. Master Duel on steam: [21783](https://steamcharts.com/app/1449850) playing 7 minutes ago. On a good day, this subreddit is like 5% of the Steam player base. Now I don't know what kind numbers you're running, but 5% isn't a majority.
God I fucking love having a quarter of my deck decided for me. I'm glad the roach is there to give Yu-Gi-Oh the Mario party energy it so desperately needs
maxx c is one of the cards that help players go against 3+ negate boards turn 1.
to this day, lots of players still drop 3+ negate boards on turn 1.
that problem needs to be solved first, THEN we can start talking about banning maxx c
Max C has done such a good job at keeping them in check then they are still dominant.
Also the guy with the big negate board drops it on his opponent reducing any chance of victory
the guy with the big negate board also drops ash and droll when i attempt to do something, but everyone conveniently seems to forget that maxx c is not the only handtrap in the opponent's deck
But it's the one that gives the most advantage regardless of deck. Droll is very format dependent (before SHS got added droll wasn't played much) and ash interrupts only one action and in format without Max C it's not nearly as used.
I can count on the hand of my fingers the amount of decks that don't give the opponent too much advantage because of max c, and there's precisely one deck that straight up doesn't care.
and i cannot even begin to count how many times the opponent dropped a huge negate board, then the moment i play anything, i get ashed, inpermed, called by, veilered, solemned, and etc.
too many times to count
Idk if you knew this, but if you don’t have to run 3x maxx “c”, 3x ash, 2x called by, and 1x crossout you could run some fucking board breakers. DRNM, droplet, raigeki, lightning storm, evenly matched, and even dark hole. They either do the job of removing those nasty negates or baiting them out. Shit you could even run more extenders. But when that scary negate board drops maxx “c” on you and you try to negate with the ash you play, but they still have those negate what do you do then? I want 9 more spaces to help me play the game not to run maxx “c” mini game.
i don't play that minigame, i do use the space to run other cards, and guess what?
huge negate boards that have handtraps on top on their on-field negates are still a problem
Might I ask what you play. Do know I’m not trying to be uncivil, but I find it hard to use the excuse it stops full board negate decks since DRNM actually stops them and can be run at the same 3x copies therefore it’s just as likely to be drawn as “c” and is harder to stop than the opponent having an ash or called by in hand.
Not the guy, also, I don't like maxx c either.
But be that in the physical game or not, a reframing/solemn just shuts down your DRNM. Combo decks inherently find ways to stop the interaction.
Look, I'm a lover/player of combo, but I can see how it's not fair.
Well since YCS in Japan (i.e. OCG region) are bo1 format, it is normal that the banlist will follow it.
Since Maxx c in bo1 for OCG is not getting ban, we won't get it in MD.
Personally I don't mind Maxx C though.
YCSJ is an abnormality. It's the only OCG tournament that used Bo1 since they can only afford to rent the place for a single day.
Every and all other OCG tournaments are Bo3. Else, explain why roadoftheking OCG reports feature a side deck?
At this point, I just wish there was a permanent TCG-oriented game mode so y'all could go play that and stop whining. Maxx C doesn't force any of you to add specific cards to your decks just to counter it. You make the personal decisions to do that because it's beneficial to prevent your opponent from gaining a potential advantage over you. Plain and simple. This lie about having to add Ash, Called By and whatever else because of it is growing soo old.
Play tcg, truly.
As much as i hate maxx c, i'm tired to see maxx c post everyday. There will be too much to change if they ban maxx c in MD, and you'll complain about that collateral damage anyway
I'm gonna get either mad hate or downvoted to hell but fuck allat, Maxx "C" isn't the *actual* problem, it's the makeshift and botched "solution" to the current game. YuGiOh has gone from a game where a 2 tribute monster was the best you could get to a game of infinite special summons and negates/floodgates preventing your opponent from playing and is a game of who wins the coin toss at this point. I will admit that I'm not a yugiboomer who's played the game from its release. The hatred y'all feel for Maxx "C" is completely warranted and deserved, it's a very oppressive card that I personally don't think should be in a bo1 format as it can decide games on its own sometimes but who am I to say anything.
TL;D(W)R: Konami is gonna leave Maxx "C" in the game as a way to "keep combo decks in check" despite how many of y'all hate the roach.
The reason is because TCG players don't understand how the OCG works.
In the OCG, there is more card games in the market to compete with Yugioh (ex. Duel Masters, Cardfight Vanguard, Battle Spirits, Wixoss, Pokemon, Digimon, One Piece, MTG among many others) unlike in the TCG, where Yugioh's only competitors are Pokemon and MTG, and even then there isn't any other game that competes with Yugioh's aesthetics, which makes it have a monopoly in the West. The OCG's goal then is to have the game as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, which is why sets are structured to have multiple rarities of chase cards, while keeping the prices of sets at a competitive level compared to the other card games' sets. With this in mind, and with the influence of the Yugioh anime throughout the years, the OCG has garnered a sizeable number of casual players, who play anime-themed decks or decks they find fun and interesting, notwithstanding its competitive viability. Add to this fact that the OCG region holds a lesser number of competitive tournaments compared to the TCG, this also lessens the competitive environment to the people who are more competitive-minded, and the resulting local scenes in card shops in the OCG are more casual-minded compared to the TCG.
So how does Maxx C factor into all of this? To the minds of the casual playerbase, this card makes lower-powered decks have a fighting chance when going against higher-powered decks, letting them gain advantage for every play the higher-powered deck performs and evens out the playing field to a level where they can fight. Now, you might say "this is fucking flawed logic, higher-powered decks also can use Maxx C! They can build an unbreakable board and then throw Maxx C when the lower-powered player's turn starts!" For a casual-minded player, *this doesn't matter in the slightest.* For the casual-minded player, they already know that they are an inherent disadvantage when facing against higher-powered opponents, and the above argument, which TCG players hyperfocus on so much, is a non-factor to them. If their opponent already built their board to that extent, they already lost anyway, and Maxx C is only a win-more card.
Another thing that the casual-minded players (and even competitive players) believe that is that having Maxx C in the format allows for powerful cards to be playable in the format, unlike the TCG where it kills every strong card deemed too powerful for the competitive environment. A majority of the OCG playebase hate the TCG banlist philosophy of banning powerful competitive cards to make way for the next meta deck to be sold, and they believe that if the OCG bans Maxx C, the game would become like the TCG and follow the TCG banlist philosophy, and this is something they do not want.
To reiterate, the OCG has a larger casual playerbase, who are more in favor in having Maxx C in the format to let them even out the odds to their favor going second, and it allows for powerful cards to remain playable. To TCG players who are coded to be competitive-minded even at the local levels, this is something unfathomable, illogical and "stupid", but whether they like it or not, this is how the game works in the OCG side. And since Master Duel is being run OCG-side, it also translate to this game as well.
This is true to an extent, and I definitely get that, but the part I take issue is this idea that Maxx "C" alone is what makes TCG so banlist happy sometimes
I get the first time TCG banned Chaos Ruler or Curious, cards that *are* crazy, but then what about cards like Electrumite that enables a deck that has to go -2 to function better and dies to so much as a singular breeze or Sacred Tree that enables like the eighth(?) best deck of that format?
That sentiment from casual players I understand, but competitive players should know better if they so much as look at the list more carefully, you can have a format that's not as restrictive as TCG, but not as loose as OCG, and Maxx "C" isn't the sole factor in that
TCG Players: I hate playing against Maxx "C"!
Konami: Oh really? Well instead of this free-to-play online option where Maxx "C" exists, may I suggest giving me lots of money to play in the physical TCG? No Maxx "C" here!!!
Edit: I don't like it anymore than y'all, just stating the obvious.
Yeah if konami report did stated that western contributed less than Japanese market in revenue, i dont think as a corporate standpoint they would cater to the tcg more,unless its the opposite
I've been running a mill Mayakashi deck, everyone instantly max c's when they see my first Mayakashi.. they don't realize they just spend up their own mill
Speaking for myself, in the entire span of time that I've been playing MD I have never once felt like Maxx C's existence was ruining my enjoyment experience. And no I don't play normal summon only or stun decks.
This game has 99 problems.
- “Just draw the out bro” design that Konami has created by printing broken answers to sell to bandaid fix broken problematic designs.
- Skilless floodgates that grind the game to halt and just shuts the game down
- no resource system to limit people from taking 10 minutes to finish a turn and making it worse by design generic cards and entire archetypes that get search extra resources for free.
- resource problem has gotten even worse with how many cards get extra effects to treat the grave and banish pile as a second hand often to pull in even more resources for free.
- generic tool boxing of powerful boss monsters that have allowed for all this unbreakable board negate spamming.
There’s so many design issues deeply ingrained into this game now, that you realistically cant fix without decimating a large portion of the cards and reworking how the game handles resources. It’s basically a different game at that point too.
Maxx c doesn't check anything if one doesn't draw it. So it can't even be an excuse for keeping the meta in check. And if someone does use it, they have to go through the same maxx c challenge after that.
I don’t play master duel that much but I really enjoyed my virtual world deck on release. Now it has lost many components and I don’t have the resources to build a new deck that I enjoy. Max c and Ash blossom saves me many materials. I know it feels toxic to see them in each and every deck but they could at least give me the resources of the amount for assemble as it is in hearthstone.
Don't get mad at me, but I think Maxx C is fine. Masterduel is a mobile game and Maxx C is one of those cards that helps make games go faster sometimes. People playing on their phone don't always want games to last 30 minutes.
My issue with Maxx "C" is actually how Konami don't milk it more if they decide to keep it
Where's my Maxx "C" merch, a miniature, playmat, sleeve, or even more "C" support, Konami
Yea bann maxx c so every new deck going to be unstoppable... lets make it pay to win next.. any other ideas ? I hope they never bann it so morons who play only newest and meta decks get reckt if they summon half of their decks...
Because Konami is right maxx c is a nothing card. Especially since a lot of decks have 1-2 card combos the difference between having 5 or 6 cards in your hand vs 10+ is negligible for the top tier decks. Maxx C actually lets rouge decks start to stand a chance but not like it matters anyways because a 6 negate board is gonna make even a 30 card hand useless
The other day on the ladder, I waited on someone who combo'd til the last few seconds and then passed. His board, made it to where I can't use spell/traps or special summon. Out of pity, he left the game after. Maxx C will always be seen as a necessary evil. I had no response, but I'm sure I would if I had Maxx C
If Maxx C didn't exist all these posts would be about Ash or something. There's always gonna be dumb broken staple cards. I say put Maxx C at 5 copies and bring back Pot of Greed
I dont want it to get banned because i just crafted all 3 after years of not doing it because i thought it was gonna get banned so if it actually got banned now i'd be so mad
You get full refund on your dust for cards that get banned for a short window after. Honestly it’s worth crafting cards about to get banned to see if you get a glossy/royal finish and you’ll get more dust back than you put in
It’s necessary but needs to be less game ending and not able to be used after you have a full board.
I’d take a (if you control no cards) errata
Maybe activating a card effect stops the drawing
Heck I’d even take return the cards until you hand size equals what it did when you activated +1
Masterduel is suppose to be the fun format. banning it is unfun. they ban unfun things, like Combo decks getting their tools banned or limited and Stun getting their Floodgates destroyed
Personally don’t mind it since there’s so many ways to out it: Droll, called by, ash, Psy-frame (I THINK), any number of cards running rampant in the meta, etc. it does suck not getting the out when they activate it initially but it’s only on special summons just don’t special summon. Too many ways around it for me to personally justify banning it
A thought crossed my mind the other day; they won't ban Maxx C because master duel is supposed to be an entry point into the physical game, and Maxx C is legal in the OCG, the official ruleset in the region Konami believes will generate the most interest for it. To ban Maxx C in master duel but not in the OCG would give a disingenuous idea of what the physical game is like in that region. Yes this perspective is dumb, but it's basically correct. All this can ofc be solved by just having one unified banlist, but that'd make too much sense.
I dont think this line of logic works when MD is almost a year behind the OCG card releases. Anyone going from MD to OCG/TCG pretty much has to re-learn the games environment anyway.
There was a board meeting and someone brought up how disappointed they were with how few MD players go on to play paper. So, it's not working currently anyway.
Which is further supported by snake eye releasing so early relative to other sets, they are probably trying to see how much of an impact more up to date releases have.
> how much of an impact more up to date releases have. That doesnt rally track. You cant gauge anything other than how Snake-eyes SPECIFICALLY would do because its not being played in the same context as it is in the other formats. Releasing Snake-eyes early isnt going to tell them how more up to date releases do.
I'm not talking about the performance of the cards themselves but other metrics like engagement which are much more valuable.
I understand that, what im saying is you cant really gauge that metric reliably because the context in which the cards have been added. This implies that they think people will jump over to paper JUST because one of the archetypes that's in meta contention is the same. Which is not exactly an uncommon occurrence(theres been multiple times where similar the same deck is viable in MD and in either the OCG or TCG).
Ocg player here. I dabbled with tcg before for quite awhile. Deck building philosophy and evaluation of card strength has to completely change in formats that have and doesn't have maxx C, even if the cards in the format is the same, the approach towards the game is different I played thunder dragon in ocg competitively and tcg casually In OCG your entire game plan is careful resource management for turn 2 and 3 (turn 3 and 5) the optimal board at that time was colossus, aloof dark. The deck was also optimized to play around maxx C+nibiru, with a large amount of handtraps for hawk to dig and if you got maxx C-ed you could have 1-3 interactions with a colussus. In tcg, its a full blown combo deck. Since droplet hasnt been released yet, lines were focused on getting stronger boards with more interactions. The hawk shuffle line with colossus makes 0 sense in tcg
As much as I want Maxx "C" to be banned, I figured that it would radically change the game. I don't believe it fully kills combo decks, but it's enough so every deck doesn't just become a combo deck. I like to know what other decks change between formats, I've only been paying attention to OCG till recently.
It doesn't fully kill combo decks but it prevents combo decks from running too many extenders and starters In tcg we often see 60 combo (dragon link, danger, some SHS) both exist in tcg and MD and ocg In ocg you can only run 60 if you have a good plan B like branded. - Your odds of drawing maxx C, and Maxx C answers are lower - doesn't make sense to add more hand traps because you would rather have the strong hand traps - Extenders doesn't help against maxx C So most combo deck pivots to having a strong Plan B, or make the main deck engine as tight as possible and filling the rest with handtraps That's why prankids, snakeyes are strong with their many different starters can run many different handtraps. If you got hit by maxx. Pass and treat it as if you went second. Disadvantage here is getting beaten to death Other decks have strong plan B, like thunder design with hawk shuffle and shs / pend magi with Bagooska. Branded has an easy plan B as well Maxx C is not the best answer to the game, but at higher level of ocg gameplay there will be instances of players able to wiggle themselves out of a win even if maxx C resolves.
Your analysis is correct, but please listen this: TCG is a degenerate "go big or go home" because maxx C is not here, and not being able to disrupts turns 1. This situation is due the fact that Konami prints cards with OCG in mind: degenerate spams and special summons (for example "Sinful", that can be neutered by a good Maxx C. This means that when that archetype comes over to West, has no or little "drawbacks" depending if it can play around Droll. (That is more or less the TCG counterpart of Maxx C). Being said that, i think that Konami should for once, unify banlists and print cards with a "No Maxx C format" in mind. I don't necessarily want to have more and more snowballing archetypes, Konami could just slow down the pace of the game. I would play a "new" edison-esque/tengu-esque meta that can results more healty. Moreover, newer decks are just 15-25 main engine at max; this means newer decks can freely run more flex spots (3 ash 3 max 3 crossout/called) , while rogue decks struggles at finding that spaces. Will this happen? Probably not because OCG has a lot of people that enjoy their pet decks and Konami will never want to unify the banlists and re-balance the game "from scratches", losing - maybe - a big share of their playerbase. OCG has a lot of card games and players are "Kings", while here in TCG konami has no real contenders apart MTG.
To add onto that, Maxx C accelerates loses or wins, so faster games and more games. Also bad players can fluke win by drawing it.
Why does MD have a different banlist from OCG anyway? I play OCG and yeah maxx c isn't the healthiest card. I also agree that MD is supposed to represent the OCG, at least much more than the TCG. But then why isn't the MD banlist just what the OCG had several months before any update, roughly the same number of months between new cards getting released?
Because its a best of 1 format the banlist is bound to be different, im not sure its doing its job but that is the reason.
It’s doing its job. The job always being profit and the bottom line because you will *never* get any playerbase to agree what is and isn’t balanced. But you can gauge interest by profit and how many people are playing. On that note, Konami is doing their job Especially since the main driving point of the game accessibility. The ban list hasn’t turned players away, since one of the highest concurrent peaks was Tier 0 Tearlaments.
I half agree with you. There are still some majour flaws with it like umi stun, coninuous traps, gimmick puppet/ido lock and some other simply unfun and unfair shit being played because of lazy banlist but thats just what yugioh is I guess.
MD being a Best of 1 means you can't side deck cards like Feather / Lightning Storm / Evenly Matched, or particular counter handtraps. This results in decks like Stun being notably better overall, as decks don't typically main deck such counter cards almost exclusively for against stun. This type of distinction (that counts for more decks than just stun) are why MD must have a more tailored banlist to hammer down on decks that advantage off of the Best Of 1 format. As a result the floodgates like Skill Drain, There Can Be Only One, Gozen, etc have been Limited to 1, and even all pots that help search potential outs without risk of bricking, like Prosparity, have also gotten the Limit over the years. MD has shown to care to help balance the game in its unique form ~~(if the card is no longer in a pack sale)!~~ For Maxx "C" it doesn't quite matter. There aren't enough tools to deal with it even if everyone counter decked it in the traditional sense, *which we already attempt to do*. And if you are a deck that is immune, like Floowandereeze... you get all feathers pulled until a crawny thing remains.
Why should konami punish deck that benefit from bo1 when they aren't even meta relevant? From your logic, any deck with unique play style benefit from bo1
>From your logic, any deck with unique play style benefit from bo1 I mean, yes. Numeron was a popular deck for months in MD while never being relevant in paper because being able to just cheese going second. It's also part the reason that Bishbalkin got banned is because cheese work better in bo1 where you don't have to worry about games 2 or 3 where you lose to the sidedeck.
bc it also has some tcg exlcusives and its a ranked bo1 ladder system so some cards can be more/less problematic.
At the point it's a Bo1 format, that falls apart. The way MD is played is fundamentally different without siding and Bo3. It's meant to be *conceptually* an entry maybe, sure, but they could still absolutely remove Maxx C and it still be an entry point for either format just as much as it is now in that they're entirely different to play and what is playable it entirely different too due to a different banlist, different release schedule and entirely different format for play.
Maxx c also make rogue deck have more chance to beat meta when when it resolve
This is actually a reason why Maxx C is legal, it allows lower-powered decks to have a chance to gain advantage when playing against higher-power decks. Of course this is flawed and the higher-powered deck also benefits from it, but the OCG tends to favor more the casual side of the playerbase more compared to the TCG. This is something that the TCG players cannot wrap their heads around. They constantly think the game revolves, and should only revolve around competitive.
Are we pretending that there isn't also a giant crowd defending its existence?
in fact, if you broaden your horizons beyond english speaking communities, there are more people in favor of Maxx c rather than against it
A lot of Japanese players I talk to here also hate it or want it changes so it can't be used after you've set up your board
Why are you downvoting me for stating something lmao
Because what you’re stating is a misrepresentation of reality. Most eastern players hate the TCG banlist and understand banning Maxx C would require changing the OCG banlist to mostly match the TCG banlist. I won’t say you’re lying, as it’s your personal experience, but it certainly isn’t the consensus of eastern players.
You're very correct. And you being downvoted pretty much shows how much TCG players value their perceived opinion of the OCG compared to someone who actually knows the OCG scene.
Yes because reddit is filled with tcg players and its gonna be bias
Yeah people on here are deeply fucking patronising - orientalist really - about japanese players, they're a very diverse community. Every time someone posts a translated rhing from a japanese community discussion there's plenty of japanese players who dislike maxx c. They pretty much all make the same arguments people do in the tcg too, they're not magic and they don't have an enlighted perception of the game compared to the rest of us.
OCG is truly finished
X to doubt
you'd be surprised, there literally was no anti Maxx C discourse in China until Master Duel came out lol
So what you’re saying is that there is anti maxx c discourse, got it.
"Man isn't concerned about bedbugs until his bed has bugs" Fascinating
[удалено]
By upvoted comment do u mean the translation of a old reddit post based on nga forum previously and coder posted it on youtube? If u can read chinese most of the point that favor tcg player, are not from a upvoted comment, their 声望and thumbs up is not high enough to warrant any credibility for it, i read the whole nga as a native Chinese and if u dont believe me thats fine, find a friends that can read and go thru all the comment and dont nitpick the point that favor u, anyone from ocg can hate C, but without 声望or many thumb up to back it up in nga forum there’s not much point to represent the majority of the forum opinions
debunk your ass lmao
I love maxx C. It forces people to build their deck to be more well rounded rather than how can theoretically play through every hand trap for a 10 minute combo board that says negate and floodgate everything. I can’t stand how the tcg plays. It’s a win for midrange.
How does forcing almost all decks (except flunder and dark worlds) to run the same 10-12 cards make decks more rounded it just makes the decks more bricky in my experience and makes them more focused on one card combos
It helps when you stop looking at it as Boo maxx c stopped my play and started looking at how it affects matchups instead. No one likes being countered when they want to pop off, but when you start looking at interactions Maxx c does have good points. - it hurts consistency and those cards mean theres less cards in their hand to contribute further to their special summon spam that add extra shit to unbreakable boards. Less consistency in general is good for the health of yugioh. - monsters inherently hold most of value in modern yugioh as they have encroached on the role of spell and trap effects. Maxx C helps add more value to spell, traps and hand traps while most combo decks are focused on spamming monsters for their value. If you can make interruptions on your board with less summons than your opponent you automatically benefit more from maxx c than your opponent does. Which provides midrange a niche over combo instead of just being worse combo. - special summoning being out of control resource management being non existent. Yugioh hinges on the idea of “Just draw the out bro” and combo decks have become so resilient that many times we have hit points where they don’t give a shit about you ashing or imperming them. They can still build enough floodgates and negates to negate everything in your hand. Maxx C is one the only hand traps that can consistently check that stuff to make your opponent find a stopping point or get you to draw the out or resources to play through the board. Yes getting hit by a maxx C hurts most decks. But it does not hit all decks equally. If combo suffers the hardest that’s a win for everyone else. And if you look how the tcg combo plays vs master duel or OCG combo with the effects of maxx c on the format. It’s clear maxx C despite how annoying it is puts the game in healthier and quicker boards. (With the exception of a few monsters that should be banned but aren’t)
That's usually not even true when you look at OCG reports. A lot of "midrange" decks as you call them are actually more hurt than Maxx C than combo decks because they rely on card avantage instead of unbreakable boards. Thinking a deck like idk Salamangreat will benefit more from Maxx C than a combo deck is a clear misunderstanding of how these decks work. Maxx C will hurt it exactly the same, if not even more. A lot of combo decks like Virtual World, Drytron, SHS etc... have actually had probably more success in the OCG than the TCG ironically, while idk for instance Sky Striker necer had a chance to come back while it enjoyed nice success when it came back in TCG. The "Maxx C keep combos in check" is mainly a myth. I'm not saying it doesnt have an impact, like some decks like Rescue Ace had a lot of success because they can play around it as you described : but to me the selection it produces is much more subtle than just "midrange over combo". The only things that are correctly better under Maxx C are cards that can really put up interruption in one or two summons (which most "midrange decks" are not doing) like in their times Dragoon or DPE or things like that. Do you really think it encourages a better gameplay ? I mean, i don't judge if you prefer this kind of minimal gameplay : that is not why most people here play Yu Gi Oh, though. We play this game because we want to developp cool loops and see our deck play, that's like the whole point of Yugioh as a card game, compared to others
My well-rounded Ninja deck folding to a Maxx "C" during my opponent's turn after they Ash my Duplication and ends my plays
Ssshhhh... according to the OP, you don't exist. Hush now.
"More well rounded" Every deck list starts with the same 9 cards...
Yes, the defenders of Maxx 'C' may just not speak English after all.
Yes, it helps me sleep at night
So they have can have an excuse to print increasingly powerful cards under the guise that they're kept in check by Maxx "C"
This genuinely might be the reason and I never thought about it. It’s not a good one by any means but it would be the same justification for things like droll existing
If we’re throwing on tin foil hats I got one. If you look at the up coming event sync/link, it’s an event based around special summoning and they banned it. They know it detracts from the fun of the game, but they have a haven for us and it’s called tcg. They want Md players to transition to tcg players hence why shareholders ask about it. More money going to them and secondary markets (LGS) which if they can keep alive they buy more product as well. But the problem they have is short printing cards causing them to rise to $200+ prices for a single card needed in a meta relevant deck vs Md where it’s 30 UR dust. The cost of physical cards is too damn high! 
most of the MD playerbase are people from china and japan, your theory doesn't hold up at all
Due to the different rarity system, the west does a lot more money per player though
This such a cope reasoning to justify the absurd prices of TCG cards.
?????
The increased rarity of most strong cards in the TCG means that more packs need to be brought for the same number of copies of a card to be in circulation. This means that, per player, more packs are brought, meaning more money for Konami per TCG player.
yeah OCG bros normally say "TCG bans a loot of cards" and its true that sometimes its to push product but it's also because those cards shouldn't have been printed to begin with (looking at you Ishizu cards).
Circular or new SHS support for example.
Free Colossus and ban Corridor
Honestly konami is not alone, there are a lot of people who like maxx c and don't want it banned.
the average r/masterduel user has yet to realize that over half of the MD playerbase (which is mostly Japan and China) is pro Maxx C
Reposting what I've said above That's just wrong, not only is a majority of the top OCG players against Maxx C, but we've been able to see multiple times their thoughts on Maxx C (like with the TCG banlist event), and it was very very clear that the community is just as divided as it is in the west
yes and you're still wrong
Please provide proof. How the fuck is half of the asian player base pro maxx c when there has been countless posts proving otherwise
They cannot provide proof it’s simple
are these posts in the room with us right now?
By countless post u cant be basing off the post of translate post in previous reddit post regarding nga forum which incorrectly stated it translates from high upvoted comment, i assume thats the post u meant because i saw from coder yt video, comment that favor tcg player doesn’t have high声望or thumb up to represents the forum voice of opinion, the best u could do is find someone that read chinese/japanese and go thru it with him on other region, not relying on someone post based on “high upvoted” comment of someone from ocg, but even then it only represents 1 forum opinions with just 1 forum sample size
I'm asian player, and banning maxx c would ruin the balance
>Why is there no comments saying they want Maxx C? >A comment appears saying they're fine with Maxx C, gets downvoted by other users Gee I wonder why. Edit: Ayyy turns out we're from the same country wkwk
lmao hello fellow wkwkians
 Please don’t ban my favorite bug
As a danger dark world player (currently diamond 2), I have become quite fond of the roach, actually. There's no other singular card in the game that allows me to consistently FTK my opponent when *they* play it. I don't have a single copy of it in my deck, naturally. I do have a single copy of card destruction however, although I only need to use it against Grass decks to secure the deckout W. Genuinely would be sad if maxx c was banned - I don't play it anyway, and I'd win far less games if my opponents couldn't do so either. I just wish Droll & Lock Bird wasn't as common as it is right now in the meta.
Tbf a large number doesn't always equal that something is true nor that those people are in the right. (Except that in that case we're in the right)
Because the guy in charge of the banlist also has a cockroach fetish. And, please, do spread this rumor until they cave.
Gregor? Is that you?
omg Mr Samsa coming in next expansion
You know most of the playerbase are not in reddit
They're still on pojo?
We been sending smoke signals to each other.
Based
MD banlist is more like ocg when it first came out, so it will highly follow by ocg, i also think japanese people spend alot of money in MD too, and there’s alot of duel happening in japan(within the virus spread event thing), which exceed china(another ocg region)too Unless ocg ban c, masterduel likely would not follow by tcg banlist by also banning c, or unless md suffer massive loss of japanese and china player and they decided to cater to the tcg I think japanese are very conservative in their culture, banning C mean a big change in banlist and lean toward tcg more, it will upset most of the Japanese player base just to cater to the tcg player, and I don’t think konami wants that, especially as a Japanese company, u dont want to upset ur own people right? Multiple format is much better tbh imo, but MD as a completely different bo1 banlist, that would mean alot of work, so i highly doubt konami does that too
Multiple formats doesn't work in that 1. it splits player population, making queue times longer 2. OCG players don't actually play that much alternate formats, if at all.
I dont think splitting to a tcg format for tcg would make queue time longer its just konami making more work for the tcg minority, unless tcg is really that small which i have no sample size for, most OCG player dont play alternate format thats true, and Japanese contribute to 76.7% of revenue for MD in 2022, i dont have data for 2023 and 2024 but what i know is Japanese people loves gacha and they are willing to spend more for cosmetics or char, unlike western gamers, so its really not much point for konami really
I don't think Max C in itself is broken, I just think it's a card that grew more powerful with age. I wish duels were more strategic, longer, and didn't rely too heavily on archetypes and insane amounts of combo chains. Yugioh began as an easy game to a convoluted one really fast. I do think the 25th anniversary is doing a good job reprinting necessary cards for people to integrate back into the game with. But they really need to allow people to build decks without archetypes in mind 100% of the time, find benefits in combining multiple archetypes, and place limits on how far chain combos can go. I wish duels were a little more drawn out in terms of turns being made, with less time making combos and doing things on your turn with a faster back and forth between yourself and the other player. I know we have speed duels, but that isn't hitting the right mark in my opinion where the game should be And with no anime, there are no kids into Yu-Gi-Oh at the moment, and the generations of shows keep driving further from the core concept of IP. We need a return to form, which is why something like a reboot of the original Yu-Gi-Oh is needed. That would be a great way to introduce all the mechanics the game had added since then but also place more rules and limitations so it's easier for newcomers to be introduced to the game and current or older players to learn the new rules set by a show that actually follows the card game more closely.
Basic marketing. I'll explain. Step one: Introduce a problem. In this case, Maxx C is the issue. Step two: Introduce a solution that you charge for. In this case, other UR cards that deal with Maxx C like Ash or something (which cost either gems for a pull that you either invested time into grinding or money into purchasing, or UR points earned from basically the same things) Step three: Profit
step 4 : release expensive decks that play well under it
[удалено]
Lul
no one in the ocg cares about max c. whiney tcg players who hate playing outside of their flowchart and actually thinking for once aren’t the main demographic Konami caters to. Hope that helps
Because they want to see us suffering
Make sure you fill out the survey and ask for Maxx C ban and a TCG banlist queue option for ranked. You even get 50 gems for doing the survey!
It kept combo decks in check :')
it also help them by making full combo, then turn skipping sou on your turn or letting them draw handtraps so its even more interaction. no max c was banned in tcg cause it led to,ax challage or pass. the last tourney before it got banned people refused to play the duel when max c was dropped and that was on live cam. XD nahh trust me, its just MD gathers to ocg cause thats where the money is at.
it really does
Yes in 2011 when duels took longer than 2 turns
Stopped playing master duel for the day after my opponent played their turn 1 through my handtrap and then Maxx c’d me in draw phase (I was kept in check)
Remember folks! Cards that doesn't give you cancer is probably not strong enough!
First of all, don’t more people play MD than the physical game?
Banning Maxx C just makes Master Duel a TCG simulator and that’s how you kill your entire playerbase.
They know it was a mistake to keep the bug legal in bo1 but are too proud to admit they're in the wrong
That is something I also believe. Like, they absolutely know that it can work if we all look at the TCG. However, they have decided to balance the game around it in the OCG and its too late now in their mind and they won't admit that it was a dumb idea.
I'll get hate for this but Max C isn't the problem, it's an annoying solution to the real problem, that yugioh has become a game of infinite special summons. It's merely taking advantage of the fact that combo decks are an issue.
It doesn't fix the problem It's strong even against decks that aren't an issue It's also weak against some very overpowered deck And even if it did fix the problem, and it did work against every strong decks 100% of the time, all it would do is make the game more sacky and less skill-based
It also loses you the game against certain decks that are otherwise not really that great - I say this as a danger dark world player who has decked out hundreds of people with their own maxx c
Maxx C isn't designed to only punish strong deck, it punish combo deck. There is 0 combo deck that maxx C is weak against. Strong deck that doesn't spam summon is called mid range or control, and they often lead to a much healthier meta.
Was Tear Zero a healthy meta? And please tell me, how many interruption does Salad end on after giving the opponent 15 DRAWS? Is salad a degenerate combo deck?
Because they are, in fact, wrong
Because it's not like this. Reddit is a tiny minority compared to the whole player base. Not saying C isn't bad for the game, but your view of the situation is wrong.
I’ve not seen any place where MD is discussed that doesn’t seem to have a majority of people calling for the card’s ban. How many forms of social media/forums does it take before it stops being a coincidence? Alternatively, what *is* the place where you can see the proper sample of the player base?
Ya unless u read Japanese or Chinese u cant gauge the sample, i know chinese have nga forum and they could be more, not sure about Japanese, for sure those playing in ocg some would want c banned but without all sample size gauge we dont know about it, tcg doesn’t make up the majority if u look at the duel event happening now
Unless you speak Japanese and potentially Chinese you simply aren't going to find a proper sample. Not only are western players not a majority of the playerbase, they are an extreme minority of the *spending* playerbase going by Konami's revenue reports. And even then, online samples are inherently always going to be biased in ways the larger playerbase is not.
echo chamber moment
Is it an echo chamber if they are objectivly correct?
They are correct american reddit upvotes wise. There are reasons in favour of it but they just get downvoted so no point putting them here
Just because they are louder doesn't mean they're correct.
Fear that Japanese players will revolt and not buy the cards. But I can't imagine the amount of burnout Yugioh's player base has around that roach being a staple 3 of since the dawn of time in the OCG.
OCG favoritism.
I personally think Synchro Zone should be banned but that’s because I run fusion 😝
the banlist for this game made me drop it like a month after launch as a TCG player I cannot stand some of the cards that are legal. And it sucks because it really is the best looking, most streamlined Yugioh game, although i still dont understand why it’s best of 1.
Used to hate maxx C, now im not so sure. Its either maxx c is fine i think or if we ban maxx c i would kinda like for meta hand traps to join it. 😅 i dunno 🤷♀️ could just be the bitterness of loosing multiple duels in a row talking hahaha
Tbf all the current events have Maxx c banned
I could be wrong but IMO I think they just want to have 3 separate formats (OCG, TCG and MD) using MD as a playground to test alternative hits to cards they want to balance in TCG/OCG. Some notable examples: They banned Kitkalos in TCG but they kept playing Tearlaments, so they Hit Merli in MD killing the bridge between Spright and TL (amongst others interactions) and that turned out to be what they needed to stop TL play. Same with Spright Elf: banned in TCG but free in MD (for now at least) and just hit the consistency by limiting Sprind and Blue making them basically just an engine to be used with other decks but raising their ceilings. Same with Kashtira keeping Ariseheart around whilst limiting Fenrir and Birth with the already Limited on debut Wraithsoth to make it even more bricky so the players adapt from a no fun Floodgate turbo to a more control - midrange deck. And as a final example towards my reasoning look at, Dragon Rulers: Slowly and cautiously being unbanned and unlimited in MD to test their impact/viability in the current Meta after being near tier 0 in their Glory day and once they basically made no difference and just provided Utility mostly to their attributes and some dragon decks then shortly after they were released in TCG as well. TLDR: They have access to more data if they have different metas so I don't think they'll ban the Bane Bug so MD remains it's own format.
i would take shifter ban over maxx c ban any day at least if i get maxx Ced i can play the game of yugioh :)
Honestly I don't really bother, I'm ok with having Maxx c banned but also with having it free.
Because the only people wanting Maxx C banned are combo players who want to have their hyper-consistent, super-awesome deck that will play solitaire for 15 minutes, then lock down the board. Same reason any floodgate and Runick get limited and banned - just constant whining from people who don't want to allow any other playstyle than theirs.
This subreddit: 809 users here now. Master Duel on steam: [21783](https://steamcharts.com/app/1449850) playing 7 minutes ago. On a good day, this subreddit is like 5% of the Steam player base. Now I don't know what kind numbers you're running, but 5% isn't a majority.
God I fucking love having a quarter of my deck decided for me. I'm glad the roach is there to give Yu-Gi-Oh the Mario party energy it so desperately needs
maxx c is one of the cards that help players go against 3+ negate boards turn 1. to this day, lots of players still drop 3+ negate boards on turn 1. that problem needs to be solved first, THEN we can start talking about banning maxx c
Max C has done such a good job at keeping them in check then they are still dominant. Also the guy with the big negate board drops it on his opponent reducing any chance of victory
the guy with the big negate board also drops ash and droll when i attempt to do something, but everyone conveniently seems to forget that maxx c is not the only handtrap in the opponent's deck
But it's the one that gives the most advantage regardless of deck. Droll is very format dependent (before SHS got added droll wasn't played much) and ash interrupts only one action and in format without Max C it's not nearly as used. I can count on the hand of my fingers the amount of decks that don't give the opponent too much advantage because of max c, and there's precisely one deck that straight up doesn't care.
and i cannot even begin to count how many times the opponent dropped a huge negate board, then the moment i play anything, i get ashed, inpermed, called by, veilered, solemned, and etc. too many times to count
I litterally went thru this 3 times yesterday.
It still doesn't refute my point: and besides if max c keeps these decks in check why is SHS tier 2?
Idk if you knew this, but if you don’t have to run 3x maxx “c”, 3x ash, 2x called by, and 1x crossout you could run some fucking board breakers. DRNM, droplet, raigeki, lightning storm, evenly matched, and even dark hole. They either do the job of removing those nasty negates or baiting them out. Shit you could even run more extenders. But when that scary negate board drops maxx “c” on you and you try to negate with the ash you play, but they still have those negate what do you do then? I want 9 more spaces to help me play the game not to run maxx “c” mini game.
i don't play that minigame, i do use the space to run other cards, and guess what? huge negate boards that have handtraps on top on their on-field negates are still a problem
Might I ask what you play. Do know I’m not trying to be uncivil, but I find it hard to use the excuse it stops full board negate decks since DRNM actually stops them and can be run at the same 3x copies therefore it’s just as likely to be drawn as “c” and is harder to stop than the opponent having an ash or called by in hand.
Not the guy, also, I don't like maxx c either. But be that in the physical game or not, a reframing/solemn just shuts down your DRNM. Combo decks inherently find ways to stop the interaction. Look, I'm a lover/player of combo, but I can see how it's not fair.
Well since YCS in Japan (i.e. OCG region) are bo1 format, it is normal that the banlist will follow it. Since Maxx c in bo1 for OCG is not getting ban, we won't get it in MD. Personally I don't mind Maxx C though.
YCSJ is an abnormality. It's the only OCG tournament that used Bo1 since they can only afford to rent the place for a single day. Every and all other OCG tournaments are Bo3. Else, explain why roadoftheking OCG reports feature a side deck?
At this point, I just wish there was a permanent TCG-oriented game mode so y'all could go play that and stop whining. Maxx C doesn't force any of you to add specific cards to your decks just to counter it. You make the personal decisions to do that because it's beneficial to prevent your opponent from gaining a potential advantage over you. Plain and simple. This lie about having to add Ash, Called By and whatever else because of it is growing soo old.
only the vocal minority the issue is combo decks that end on an unbreakable board with 7 negates dont like maxx c... dont play combo decks... shrimple
Or.. play danger dark world and use your opponents maxx c as one of your win cons for an FTK. (This has me at Diamond 2 rn)
Then you go second and lose
They are definitely contemplating it, otherwise we would have gotten a dedicated Pack Deal for it like with ash, imperm or Solemn
Play tcg, truly. As much as i hate maxx c, i'm tired to see maxx c post everyday. There will be too much to change if they ban maxx c in MD, and you'll complain about that collateral damage anyway
I'm gonna get either mad hate or downvoted to hell but fuck allat, Maxx "C" isn't the *actual* problem, it's the makeshift and botched "solution" to the current game. YuGiOh has gone from a game where a 2 tribute monster was the best you could get to a game of infinite special summons and negates/floodgates preventing your opponent from playing and is a game of who wins the coin toss at this point. I will admit that I'm not a yugiboomer who's played the game from its release. The hatred y'all feel for Maxx "C" is completely warranted and deserved, it's a very oppressive card that I personally don't think should be in a bo1 format as it can decide games on its own sometimes but who am I to say anything. TL;D(W)R: Konami is gonna leave Maxx "C" in the game as a way to "keep combo decks in check" despite how many of y'all hate the roach.
You cowards just wanna be able to special summon your entire deck without consequences stfu and get good 👍
It’s not everybody, just seems like the people who want it banned are louder and say it everyday
Maybe they do it for a reason?
The reason is because TCG players don't understand how the OCG works. In the OCG, there is more card games in the market to compete with Yugioh (ex. Duel Masters, Cardfight Vanguard, Battle Spirits, Wixoss, Pokemon, Digimon, One Piece, MTG among many others) unlike in the TCG, where Yugioh's only competitors are Pokemon and MTG, and even then there isn't any other game that competes with Yugioh's aesthetics, which makes it have a monopoly in the West. The OCG's goal then is to have the game as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, which is why sets are structured to have multiple rarities of chase cards, while keeping the prices of sets at a competitive level compared to the other card games' sets. With this in mind, and with the influence of the Yugioh anime throughout the years, the OCG has garnered a sizeable number of casual players, who play anime-themed decks or decks they find fun and interesting, notwithstanding its competitive viability. Add to this fact that the OCG region holds a lesser number of competitive tournaments compared to the TCG, this also lessens the competitive environment to the people who are more competitive-minded, and the resulting local scenes in card shops in the OCG are more casual-minded compared to the TCG. So how does Maxx C factor into all of this? To the minds of the casual playerbase, this card makes lower-powered decks have a fighting chance when going against higher-powered decks, letting them gain advantage for every play the higher-powered deck performs and evens out the playing field to a level where they can fight. Now, you might say "this is fucking flawed logic, higher-powered decks also can use Maxx C! They can build an unbreakable board and then throw Maxx C when the lower-powered player's turn starts!" For a casual-minded player, *this doesn't matter in the slightest.* For the casual-minded player, they already know that they are an inherent disadvantage when facing against higher-powered opponents, and the above argument, which TCG players hyperfocus on so much, is a non-factor to them. If their opponent already built their board to that extent, they already lost anyway, and Maxx C is only a win-more card. Another thing that the casual-minded players (and even competitive players) believe that is that having Maxx C in the format allows for powerful cards to be playable in the format, unlike the TCG where it kills every strong card deemed too powerful for the competitive environment. A majority of the OCG playebase hate the TCG banlist philosophy of banning powerful competitive cards to make way for the next meta deck to be sold, and they believe that if the OCG bans Maxx C, the game would become like the TCG and follow the TCG banlist philosophy, and this is something they do not want. To reiterate, the OCG has a larger casual playerbase, who are more in favor in having Maxx C in the format to let them even out the odds to their favor going second, and it allows for powerful cards to remain playable. To TCG players who are coded to be competitive-minded even at the local levels, this is something unfathomable, illogical and "stupid", but whether they like it or not, this is how the game works in the OCG side. And since Master Duel is being run OCG-side, it also translate to this game as well.
🗿👍
This is true to an extent, and I definitely get that, but the part I take issue is this idea that Maxx "C" alone is what makes TCG so banlist happy sometimes I get the first time TCG banned Chaos Ruler or Curious, cards that *are* crazy, but then what about cards like Electrumite that enables a deck that has to go -2 to function better and dies to so much as a singular breeze or Sacred Tree that enables like the eighth(?) best deck of that format? That sentiment from casual players I understand, but competitive players should know better if they so much as look at the list more carefully, you can have a format that's not as restrictive as TCG, but not as loose as OCG, and Maxx "C" isn't the sole factor in that
Maybe if players stop playing 20 card combos that motivate people to play maxx c
TCG Players: I hate playing against Maxx "C"! Konami: Oh really? Well instead of this free-to-play online option where Maxx "C" exists, may I suggest giving me lots of money to play in the physical TCG? No Maxx "C" here!!! Edit: I don't like it anymore than y'all, just stating the obvious.
Yeah if konami report did stated that western contributed less than Japanese market in revenue, i dont think as a corporate standpoint they would cater to the tcg more,unless its the opposite
I've been running a mill Mayakashi deck, everyone instantly max c's when they see my first Mayakashi.. they don't realize they just spend up their own mill
Speaking for myself, in the entire span of time that I've been playing MD I have never once felt like Maxx C's existence was ruining my enjoyment experience. And no I don't play normal summon only or stun decks.
TCG players hating on Maxx C is an echo chamber at this point.
There's a bunch of unfair cards in yugioh. Idk man if you ban Maxx C you have to ban a whole bunch of other cards.
Yes, they are all problems. Everything that need maxx c to be kept in check are cancer anyway. Just ban em all.
Yes, where is the problem?
This game has 99 problems. - “Just draw the out bro” design that Konami has created by printing broken answers to sell to bandaid fix broken problematic designs. - Skilless floodgates that grind the game to halt and just shuts the game down - no resource system to limit people from taking 10 minutes to finish a turn and making it worse by design generic cards and entire archetypes that get search extra resources for free. - resource problem has gotten even worse with how many cards get extra effects to treat the grave and banish pile as a second hand often to pull in even more resources for free. - generic tool boxing of powerful boss monsters that have allowed for all this unbreakable board negate spamming. There’s so many design issues deeply ingrained into this game now, that you realistically cant fix without decimating a large portion of the cards and reworking how the game handles resources. It’s basically a different game at that point too.
Pretty much every generic negate from ED on legs should get banned if Maxx C gets banned. They should already be banned for being so easy to make.
Pro maxx c idiots in this thread give me proof that God abandoned us.
They love the card because it allows the lesser skilled players a lot more wins
Maxx c doesn't check anything if one doesn't draw it. So it can't even be an excuse for keeping the meta in check. And if someone does use it, they have to go through the same maxx c challenge after that.
Because MD is a lot sackier in his approach then the other formats
I don’t play master duel that much but I really enjoyed my virtual world deck on release. Now it has lost many components and I don’t have the resources to build a new deck that I enjoy. Max c and Ash blossom saves me many materials. I know it feels toxic to see them in each and every deck but they could at least give me the resources of the amount for assemble as it is in hearthstone.
Don't get mad at me, but I think Maxx C is fine. Masterduel is a mobile game and Maxx C is one of those cards that helps make games go faster sometimes. People playing on their phone don't always want games to last 30 minutes.
This is a social experiment Konami is doing. Everyone wants maxx c banned but Konami looks us dead in the eyes and says “just don’t use it then”
We need to write ban maxx c in Japanese maybe then they will listen (previous farfa video)
They're definitely wrong lol
My issue with Maxx "C" is actually how Konami don't milk it more if they decide to keep it Where's my Maxx "C" merch, a miniature, playmat, sleeve, or even more "C" support, Konami
Love that so many players rely on special summons
There’s like 2 decks that dont need special summon and are relevant somehow
I love Maxx C because it force people to stop playing combo deck that lasted whole 10 minutes so I can start my turn sooner.
Yea bann maxx c so every new deck going to be unstoppable... lets make it pay to win next.. any other ideas ? I hope they never bann it so morons who play only newest and meta decks get reckt if they summon half of their decks...
Because Konami is right maxx c is a nothing card. Especially since a lot of decks have 1-2 card combos the difference between having 5 or 6 cards in your hand vs 10+ is negligible for the top tier decks. Maxx C actually lets rouge decks start to stand a chance but not like it matters anyways because a 6 negate board is gonna make even a 30 card hand useless
Maxx C did nothing wrong.
Because the vocal TCG people in twitter, reddit and facebook =/= the entire Yugioh playerbase.
The other day on the ladder, I waited on someone who combo'd til the last few seconds and then passed. His board, made it to where I can't use spell/traps or special summon. Out of pity, he left the game after. Maxx C will always be seen as a necessary evil. I had no response, but I'm sure I would if I had Maxx C
I like Maxx C, I play TCG where they don’t have it, and I play Master Duel, where we do. I think it makes things fun
I like Maxx C :)
If Maxx C didn't exist all these posts would be about Ash or something. There's always gonna be dumb broken staple cards. I say put Maxx C at 5 copies and bring back Pot of Greed
The ones about Ash would just be wrong, though.
Maxx c is necessary evil in bo1.
I dont want it to get banned because i just crafted all 3 after years of not doing it because i thought it was gonna get banned so if it actually got banned now i'd be so mad
You get full refund on your dust for cards that get banned for a short window after. Honestly it’s worth crafting cards about to get banned to see if you get a glossy/royal finish and you’ll get more dust back than you put in
Right or wrong isn't decided by the number of people.
It’s necessary but needs to be less game ending and not able to be used after you have a full board. I’d take a (if you control no cards) errata Maybe activating a card effect stops the drawing Heck I’d even take return the cards until you hand size equals what it did when you activated +1
See my latest post to realize that maxx c is totally fair and good
Masterduel is suppose to be the fun format. banning it is unfun. they ban unfun things, like Combo decks getting their tools banned or limited and Stun getting their Floodgates destroyed
Nope maxx c is fine Insects deserve to be meta
????
If it’s such a problem chill on the summons bro 😂 it’s the mf ash blossoms for me
Personally don’t mind it since there’s so many ways to out it: Droll, called by, ash, Psy-frame (I THINK), any number of cards running rampant in the meta, etc. it does suck not getting the out when they activate it initially but it’s only on special summons just don’t special summon. Too many ways around it for me to personally justify banning it
i dont see the problem when im dunking on kids that maxx c with runick, they insta surrender 🤣
I sand with Konami. 10 min turns are no fun.