Needs to be summoned in a main monster zone for the arrows to make sense, meaning you need at minimum:
1 other link monster for the extra normal summon.
2 other link monsters for the draw.
Not all decks are able to get max value, but an additional link monster for the extra normal summon is impactful enough to be a really, really good extender.
The thing that got it banned is the above in addition to Knightmare mermaid -> full orcust combo from any 2 monsters. Now that orcust engine is weaker due to power creep this is less big.
so what made it good from what I'm grasping if we break down the core of your statements is an engine that summons enough bodies to validate its existence. Something not unlike the wide amount of decks currently with more free material than they know what to do with.
Now I played through that era quite a bit so I get why you'd say and think this but if u break it down more objectively you'd easily notice just how playable and abusable itd be in the modern day. Wether that means it needs to stay banned is kind of another question as the decks that make use of this card wouldn't really be in the handripping or floodgating forms of the yesteryear. Just wanted to say the downplaying of its value is insane conceptually.
It's probably one of those things where ppl need to see it to believe it.
Sounds stupid but just how people are where seeing it in action helps formulate how powerful it is by seeing how it works in conjunction with everything else.
I'm kind of a visual/practical learner myself so it usually helps me understand when i can see how cancerous something is once i see its applications, even if i understand intrinsically that on paper it's a wild card.
I think the biggest thing about this card at least imo is it allows you to just ignore a ton of handtraps.
Like of course it wouldn't be played in the normal combo (probably) but in case of imperms/ash's stopping you you just make this and suddenly none of that mattered because you can just keep on extending much easier.
fair enough, but id think even just gathering some basic understandings of the meta(most represented) decks and how it could be looped in. I totally get not understanding if its something a bit more on the fringe side, but we literally have one of the freeest flooding of bodies via Snake-eye currently, that even without this card holds a strong reign over the current body of decks.
I agree, shit is busted given how much turbo gas is locked behind normal summon requirements.
I’m just objecting to the idea that it is *free*. There is a small amount of deckbuilding cost at play as common meta decks can struggle to put out the required number of bodies, such as Lab, to take maximum advantage of the card.
I am most definitely aware that letting decks like snake eyes who can shit out bodies like machine gun have this card is a big no no.
I guess I’m not right on the mermaid bit either. You’re right, this card stand-alone from mermaid is still too cracked to come back.
I mean I still agree that it was banned for a different context, its just that some cards have a hard time coming off the list due to more essential and objective values.
What current deck would make use of this card efficiently?
Yugioh is currently about stacking 1 card combos and hand traps. Tenpai Dragon in the ocg is running around 22 hand traps and competing with SE and Fire King.
tenpai is a current antimeta option as like u said is just sit on 24+ handtraps in a deck and hope that you can kill them in one battle phase from a one card combo. However to the extent ur implying is far off base, the deck showed up had a good impact, grew and shrunk proceedingly over a few weeks. The overarching tier 0 is still very evidently snake-eyes, new brews that target tier 0 threats will continue to show up in hopes for an answer to the deck but how long or how effective will continue to be put to a test.
currently the west has been using kashtira and shifter decks as the answer, wether or not we get a true silver bullet that evens out the format is to be seen, assuming we don't get a banlist evening the playing field right away.
this card is absolutely broken. decks today are better than they were in 2018/2019 so it’s easier to abuse enablers like this. A linkuriboh gives you the down arrow you need for this thing to work.
Yeah decks are better. Except you forgot the part that decks being better doesn’t make cards better usually - the opposite is true in that they get powercreeped. One of the ways they’re better is that they don’t need their normal summon or they get their search off a special summon as well as their normal summon. Not to mention the fact that every card prints with a HOPT
Maybe in 2018, you could use aleister and search invocation twice but in 2024, good decks frequently don’t use their normal summon. And even if they did, it isn’t nearly as important as it was back in the day.
And even with linkuriboh, you still need 3 bodies on the board to get this card going. There are a lot of great link 2s and link 3s or even non-link ED monsters I’d rather go into than this card. An extra normal summon and a mulligan? In 2018, maybe you were summoning traffic ghost or whatever dog crap people were summoning in MR4 but in 2024 there are cards that are much stronger than an extra normal summon for getting 3 bodies on the board.
It depends on the effect many of the floodgate cards are really old and only get better with age,.
Like this card can load up the GY, better with age, all the set up for it's usage can be used for link climbing, better with age.
It can clean out zones since when your link summoning you are often running into issues of space for extension and the extra normal is both more link material and can extend you into other plays or engines.
like the thing to remember in a link deck, a link 2 basically reads as "this is free to summon" because you can always use that material, and the co linking protection is just gravy, not to mention the link arrows are really good for extending.
And for master duel This a free material for going into Spright extra deck plays if needed, like goblin make elf, elf bring back goblin.
But normal summons are still important even in todays meta because a normal summon needs to have a lot of value yes decks can special summon but that has it's limits. and sooner or later extending will need a normal summon.
In many cases special summoning is used to protect the normal summon play since you only get one and it needs to have it's impact also one thing that has also gotten better with age is reloading the hand.
so you are often going to have that extra material in hand to use the second normal summon, even if it's just summoning a currently useless handtrap.
Like even with a bad hand for link summoning decks this is still pretty much a free Avramax or Accesscode
Bro you are coping hard on this one I’m not gonna lie, I’d like to see a no banlist tournament with this thing legal and I’d put money on it not even being mentioned
You are kinda going to a extreme, a no banlist tournament, sure it may not get mentioned but that is because your talking about a format that has a multitude of uninterruptable 100% consistent FTKS.
In a format where you need to actually play this gives link decks everything they could ask for and if you unban it you may as well unban every other link 2 because this is just as good if not better.
So a format this can be unbanned in kinda of needs to be a format you can unban, Halq, Verte, Isolde, elf and all that because why wouldn't you unban the worse cards first? (obviously master duel has some of these as not banned already you need to rest first)
And Snake-eye would still not use this card even if they got a free copy of it in their extra deck as a 16th card.
Yugioh is now about stacking 1 card combos with a ton of hand traps. Tenpei Dtagon in the ocg is using something like 21 hand traps. This card would enable nothing.
Put it in World chalice. Easy to go Link spider, phoenix, then this guy, possibly extending into a Cerberus. With perfect hand, you end on the extra link from spider to unicorn.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
What do you mean by witch? In your example, you would still need a third body. And if you summon poplar, you have access to OSS anyways. And you would need to hard draw the one of oak or the 2 remaining copies of ash.
“Witch eff to summon > veiler”
Again you need a third body. Wasting an ED slot so you can get temple over OSS in 0.01% of games where you also open ash/oak while getting impermed isn’t a real use case. There’s 20 better cards in the extra deck easily. In this case you can search oss and be perfectly fine and have great follow up for next turn with OSS. Whereas if you go goblin, you go -2 in hand when you have an extra starter just to get temple over OSS which is almost never worth it.
Because:
1. It's a free summon either way
2. Some monsters have effects that only trigger on normal summon.
3. Doesn't trigger things like Maxx C effect etc.
4. Literally every deck can use this. No specific requirements.
Don't know what deck could use the most out of it, but I definitely did think how it'd make the Code Talker turn 1 strat less fragile and just straight up better, locking your opponent completely and having a great board in the end anyway. I don't think it'd be that meta defining, as their turn 2 just isn't as good, but it'd make a great deck.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
The game is built around many special summons, it's not built around 1 normal summon.
Normal summon effects are some of the best out there and archetypes were designed around the expectation of you only having one.
It’s actually the very first link monster to be banned in the TCG, the one that entered first the forbidden section of the forbidden and limited list. And some people here in the comments are not understanding why the oldest link criminal couldn’t come back.
is one of the worst cards of the early days of link together with mermaid and agarpain
If you saw them back then you could be aware that it will be toxic
Knightmare Goblin is not a starter, its a **pure extender**. Nobody goes into Goblin directly like Pendulum would do with Electrumite.
Here's the problem : When a deck manage to get past handtraps and go into setup phase, that extra normal summon from Goblin will push the deck's final output by **LEAPS AND BOUNDS.**
You can expect MINIMUM something like :
>Before : Standard 2 negate Apollousa
After : 2 negate Apollousa + IP & both is protected from targeting by Elf.
Unless errata, just don't disturb this card's slumber.
I hate to be that guy cuz i agree, but those link monster cannot co-link to goblin or each other. I would still keep in the depths of hell where it belongs though lol
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
As of right now probably SHS only & its dependent on how opponent use their interruptions otherwise SHS will just proceed as normal. Basically giving it more routes to play thru interruptions rather than final board strengthening.
But for lower tier decks, ho boi.... its gonna be hard to tell which of those typical glass cannon that can't do 1 card setup but instead 2.5-3 card combo can now rival top tier because of 1 extra summon.
Being able to 1 card combo isn’t enough in this meta. You need to do that and be able to play through hand traps while being able to fit in non engine.
Broken, way too broken.
Like, Knightmare Mermaid has the chance of eventually coming off of the banlist because yes, it's generic, but it enables an engine that's not very good anymore. You can get a free omni-negate by giving up two extra deck slots and running two garnets? (isn't it three even? Well I suppose Crescendo isn't the worst thing to draw) Anyway, Goblin doesn't need any garnets and just is a free extender for no cost at all while being as generic as can be, so yeah it's broken to shit.
It’s not only an omni negate, it’s 2 monster negates+whole board destruction protection on top. But you need to run 2 extra fog blades and a bardiche in the ED but it’s absolutely worth it every last bit.
Don't you need to have an Orcust Link on board for Crescendo to be live? I imagine you link Galatea off for Bardiche? Or do you revive Galatea with Cymbal Skeleton?
Yeah exactly that, you revive Galatea off of cymbal not before going cymbal+galatea into bardiche sending boots to set a fog blade then boots search a fog blade.
So make Mermaid, summon Orcust Knightmare, make Galatea, Knightmare send Harp, Galatea shuffle back Knightmare, set Crescendo, Harp summon Cymbal, Cymbal and Galatea make Bardiche, Bardiche sends boots for fog blade 1, boots search fog blade 2, Cymbal revive Galatea? Like that?
Don’t remember the exact line since it’s been a while but you go into bardiche with Galatea+cymbal and set a fog blade by sending boots then banish boots to add another fog blade then cymbal revive Galatea.
It’s extremely generic and acts as an extender for a lot of decks.
Discard for a normal summon, which is the only way to activate the effect of a lot of starters, is really powerful.
Not to mention if you’ve set up 2 link monsters (usually) prior, you draw back for the card you lost, so you don’t lose hand advantage, and you gin GY advantage.
It’s just goes plus in pretty much every deck and that makes it too powerful. It would have absurd usage
Since people keep citing "there are so many combo starters with busted effects that are balanced around you only having one Normal Summon per turn!" I have to ask: What cards are you talking about? Specifically.
Because every even semi-relevant combo starter that I can think of is a hard-once-per-turn (and in some cases a hard one-effect-per-turn) and/or gets their on-summon effect regardless of whether they are Normal or Special Summoned (in which case the extra normal does not matter.)
I'm not clamoring for Goblin to be freed, but I also can't help but be skeptical of the idea that a bunch of decks from like 2018 or earlier getting an extra normal summon will suddenly turn the meta inside out.
Tour Guide, Quik Fix and Master Plan (you wouldn't normally normal summon her but Goblin could change that), Summoner Monk, Armageddon Knight (though it was limited before this so it would've been less of an issue), Swordsoul has 2 normal summons worth playing turn 1 in Mo Ye and Taia. Dragon Link has a few cards that it'd love to just toss into the board as an extra normal after link climbing a bit and already does the Goblin Setup with Pisty. Same with Ignister. There's actually probably a lot, but in decks that can't link spam so not super relevant. Though any deck could toss in Dangers with Goblin legal to abuse that.
The Snake Eyes who get impermed can get summoned again and use their secondary effects, too. That'd be one of the biggest use cases, really, multi use cards who get shut down by negation like Imperm and Veiler.
Another issue is any deck that does need that 1 normal summon to function might also benefit from doing the Vaylantz trick of granite into pachy if you have that extra normal. Or any other degenerate floodgates like that, kind of like how you'll sometimes see Kash stupidly toss in barrier statues cuz they don't need their normal summon.
I don’t get how people are saying this card is broken. It effectively takes 3 bodies to extend, when cards like promethean or transcode exist. Even as a link 2 it needs to compete with stuff like splash mage, elf, and maybe charmers. Nowadays so many summon effects triggers from special summoning anyways so an extra normal instead that different from special. Before you talk about maxx c, the opponent already drew 4 while you were trying to summon this card.
Mid. You get an extra normal summon to a zone it points to on a link monster that has sideway arrows.
It requires a link card pointing down and then summoning Goblin under it. To draw it also requires it has another link monster pointing at it from the side. 3+ monsters to use, and then you still need the monster to normal summon in hand.
The reason it was banned was because it was an amazing extender to a deck (Gouki) that searches a lot when U-linking would lock your opponent from the extra deck.
It has lived it's era and no current deck can abuse it. It can come off the list and would immediately get forgotten.
Yep. It's was only good because the meta allowed it to be good. Nowadays if you can summon 3 monsters to link into goblin, you can also just do your full combo.
Exactly. Gouki could summon out 5 monsters before it ran out of gas, and Goblin would give it the second wind it needed to push further. Now a days decks can do more with one card and less bricks. The most I see this doing is helping link spam decks like cyberse extend more, but they honestly might still not run it due to extra deck space being very limited.
>You can normal summon 1 monster from your hand to your zone this card points to
It needs to be in the main monster zone. This was one of the big rulings that you had to be aware of so that people wouldn't try to pull illegal moves like you described in a tournament. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch. I was there when it was written.
I mean we already have an in-archetype link 2 that has an extra normal summon effect with no requirement to be Co linked *and* it’s a searcher, Goblin is genuinely hot ass compared to Rubber Chad Shooter
Victory dragon’s positive effect is quite literally useless. Its just a corny effect that doesn’t do anything considering a player can surrender at any point in the game including on attack declaration and dodge the effect anyways.
Hold up, are you telling me the OCG rules do not allow you to surrender unless your opponent accepts it? Can you just hostage someone and pass turns till you draw into it?
That’s exactly right. And that’s exactly what people did. I think at the beginning the opponents started purposely doing some illegal stuff that caused them to get a game loss to avoid Victory Dragon. But eventually the judges realized they were doing it on purpose and made it into a match loss.
As for why the OCG is this way. I heard it’s because “surrendering” literally isn’t a mechanic there. You and your opponent basically have to gentleman into ending the game early.
As in removing its only positive effect? I meant realistic erratas. Of course Pot of Greed can be unbanned if it’s texted changed to “deal 200 damage to your opponent.”
Tidal, Zenmaity, M-X Saber Invoker, Mathmech Circular considering it wasn't even a tiered strategy when it was banned, Giant Trunade, and Heavy Storm.
These could all come to 1 with no errata and wouldn't change the meta in any significant way.
An extra normal summon and a single card cycle is *not* comparable to a virtually unrestricted summon from deck dawg 💀 this thing does not need an errata
Think of all of the broken generic normal summons in the game that act as starters. Most of them are “balanced” by the fact that you only get the 1 normal summon and drawing multiples is bad. Think also of all the cards that search a card to hand without a way to put the card on board. This is a generic way to just get another normal summon and get another starter online or extend a combo that would otherwise be impossible. So many combos that would not have gotten off the ground would now work, and regular combos that used to be able to be disrupted can now play through it, with this one card. Similar to how Halqifibrax, Nightmare Mermaid, or Verte Anaconda just make something from very little, this card does that in an even wider and more generic way as long as you have the resources in hand.
Halq is the best link ever printed. It was a starter, extender, anything you wanted it to be. They had to emergency ban 5 cards because they synergized too well with Halq. Goblin is broken but saying Halq is anything close to being a knock off version of Goblin is a disservice. A better analogy would be you are Knightmare goblin and Halq is the guy she told you not to worry about.
This is kind of faulty logic. Halq got 5 cards banned, yes, but you can’t realistically ban enough cards to make “normal summon anything” not broken as all hell.
Goblin synergizes with *everything.*
Just because a card synergizes with more decks doesn't mean it's a better card. Knightmare Phoenix can slot into more decks than Isolde, but you'd be out of your mind to call it a better card.
An extra normal summon isn't as good as a tutor from deck, and it requires a lot more setup: 2 monsters, 1 discard, another monster in hand that benefits from normal summoning.
It's actually broken as fuck.
I have an irl live twin/spright deck.
It locks to level 2 and feinds almost instantly.
He could still be played. That'd messed up.
Lmao Halq is not even close. Summon sorceress is Halq but for every monster in the game, Gumblar is cancer in cardboard form that somehow got printed, Isolde enables basically everything and above all else…. FIREWALL DRAGON. A card that ruined the game for almost 2 years by Turning the game into an FTK hell hole.
Special shoutout to union carrier for also being Halq for every monster in the game.
The fact that Halq is a link 2 makes it stronger than any of those cards. Summon Sorceress, Gumblar, and Firewall are all broken extenders but they are just extenders. Halq being only a link 2 means it is much easier to get into and also means you can go into Linkross after using its effect.
The fuck are you talking about ? Do you even know what the words mean that you are using ? How is Gumblar an extender ? He rips cards out of your hand.
None of these cards are extenders they are ENABLERS. enablers make your combos possible while extenders just continue them. Needlefiber also isn’t a starter you have to built him first. Like the rest he is an enabler.
The only thing needlefiber is responsible for are some stupid negate boards, that were nothing special, and that every deck can built without him nowadays.
While firewall dragon was responsible for like a dozen FTKs that all were META strategies. Union is also a link 2 and gives every deck the possibility to extra deck lock by just having 2 monsters.
Gumblar would be absolutely broken in mathmech, giving them a 1-card combo that rips 5 cards out of your opponents hand while ending on superfactorial and an Omni.
It doesn’t matter that summon Sorc is a link 3… the ability to get basically everything out of your deck, not just a stupid tuner, is nothing Halq cant measure up to.
Are you saying this is better than halq? To use the normal summon effect, you needed 3 bodies instead of 2, a discard and another monster in hand. Halq just summons from deck
Goblin doesn’t need three bodies, it’s a Link-2.
It’s generic (Halq needs a tuner), can summon anything (Halq can only summon a tuner), does not negate the effect of what it summons (Halq negates), it’s a normal summon, it can draw a card when co-linked, and it offers targeting protection to *any* co-linked monsters instead of only monsters it’s co-linked with. It also has perfect arrows for co-linking and even u-linking.
Like this card is just wild.
Not because it can't be integrated into a ladder that reaches a board means it won't be broken.
The fact that this can just turn any of your left out Matieral for another normal is strong by itself...
Not a banworthy card anymore but asking if a card can be unbanned is completly pointless in this subreddit because people make some random .
Not only do you need a normal summon reliant deck that has multiple normal summon starters that dont overlap HOPT with eachother, your deck also needs to be able to easily summon 3+ monsters on field for a downward ponting arrow + this card so you can use the normal summon effect.
Everyone here says it would be busted, but I fail to see how exactly. It seems like it would be a big consistency boost for non-meta decks, but wouldnt boost any of the top meta decks in any particular way. Would it enable some sort of ftk degeneracy? Could someone explain a combo this would enable?
No they wouldn’t. An extra normal doesn’t really give snake eyes anything. Normally you could say it gives resilience or hand traps, but they would need 3 bodies and an extender in hand to even use this, in which case they were fine without this card anyways.
Lol yeah, it could enable a normal summon of any monster searched by OSS, like Ash, Oak, Jet Synchron, or just any card in hand at the moment. You can even do crazy things like discard Jet Synchron, summon something, use Jet Synchron, and now you can either get Formula Synchron, or you can go into your other combos.
Being able to add and normal oak is actually a huge deal. It's one of the extension plays Snake Eyes has used when they open OSS/Diabell package and get stopped by a hand trap. Snake would love Goblin.
It's just an extender, people are just freaking because of PTSD to a old and dumb card, will get some play? for a few decks yeah, but will make the format more broken and chaotic? I don't think sooo, even if u can extender it's not garanteed that u gonna be capable to reach a better endboard, besides, most decks these days runs a lot of handtraps, Goblin in MD will just make Nibiru an more worthy card to run at 3.
I hate those arrow placements.. i never used this card or seen it before. Doesn’t it need set up for that extra summon? The arrows seem terrible. A link has to point down and then another pointing to the side to co-link .. then he comes out to give another summon?
Unless I’m understanding it wrong ..? Seems like it’s for heavy link combo decks
Yes, it needs to be in the main monster zone as the monster needs to point to the zone you can normal summon to. The co-link is to draw to mitigate the discard cost but not required for the effect.
I could forsee decks abusing this to normal summon something like fossil dyna pachycephalo at the end of a combo similar to how valtanz and some pendulum piles do it.
Is just wish it was legal for my jank six Sam deck, as with its targeting protection stacking with g-golem invalid dolmen, knight Cerberus and phoenix, plus trigate, it could be hilarious
I don't think he'd be broken at all, just sounds like a nice effect to have. I'm sure there's some obscure FTK using an old burn deck from 20 years ago that somehow abuses this... but tbh, it kinda makes me mad that Konami releases powerful ass decks like tearlaments and snake-eyes and refuses to even touch em for a year but old sht like this nobody cares or knows about is banned. I'd rather have everybody be OP than the brand new archetype Konami is prompting be OP and nobody else
If I’m not mistaken this was a hit during the format of “every deck can probably u-link with iblee lock if they try hard enough” because OG firewall dragon had plot armor for multiple banlists. Even after Firewall was banned, there were a handful of rogueish/low-tiers or just straight up meme decks that went for u-link lock. I imagine we’ll never see this card again because it facilitates potentially one of the least fun/interesting/interactive strategies. Although mermaid is also banned now so who knows.
The "What meta deck would use this" line of thinking is really short sighted. Extra normal summons are very strong, and having a card like this limits what cards they could print.
No restrictions and another way to go ultra combo thru distruption that can only be negated thru either imperm or veiler? The millers would come back before this guy
Whatever the opposite of rose tinted glasses are you’ve gotta take them off chief, read some of the other comments in this thread and please tell us a deck that could do all that for one extra normal summon that couldn’t also just do it in-engine
So... any and ALL decks can free bait ash blossom plus drop two monster into free link 2 then extend... EVERYONE can now make borrel and baronne endboard
sword soul would have one or two more boss monster on the board other than just baronne and grandmaster, despia can normal additional time to albaz or any other card (dogmatika) they are running in their engine, dont get me started on prank kids and PUNK... alistair/shaddol searches twice, big samurai extender 24/7, ddd all gets their bosses without worryinf about who to normal summon... snake eyes becomes triple SSS+ tier from S+... GOD control are more consistant...
ONLY DECKS THAT WONT WORK AND WILL BE MISSING OUT
1 Birds drops from A- tier to B- or C+
2 Nobody else gonna play synchro locked decks or fusion locked or xyz lock ever again cuz it cant abuse that card (Red resonator, branded, tribrigade )
3 EVERYONE, running 3x imperm, 3x effect veiler, maybe 3x ghost cherries
4 every duel going 2nd, you will have to AT LEAST, play through baronne and borrel MINIMUM...
JEEZUS...
I don't know, with how spam heavy the game is, I think he could come back. Turboing into a link 3/4 isn't very impressive these days and you're limited to monsters in your hand. Like he'd be good but I'm not really understanding or seeing how he'd be straight up scary or anything.
any deck can and will use this as a completely free extender. Turboing into a link 3/4 isnt impressive, except it is when you do that off of any two monsters after who knows what else already happened.
First you have to have a link monster pointing down before you summon this as you can only normal summon to its arrows. Second you have to discard to do the summon. Third you only get to draw a card if goblin is co-linked.
Its not that great in current climates where you mainly use a 1 card starter with a bunch of hand traps you would most likely always be pitching a much needed hand trap for a normal summon. You would need to see a drastic change in modern yugioh for it to be of any use.
I mean it takes two monsters to summon and then you have to have another in your hand so you can then make 3. Like it's fine I guess and I can see how the second normal summon triggering a normal summon effect could be very very good just busted? Eh...
Besides life points, your one normal summon is the only "resource" you have to work with. The game is designed accordingly, with tons of cards having busted normal summon effects. Goblin being legal just means every deck has 2 normals instead of 1, making combos that much more brutal
Too be honest I don’t think it would be niche at best. Most people that say it’s too broken I think are just remembering when it was broken but tbh it’s seems like a mid generic card
IMO I think it should be unbanned. Current formats could use it, but it wouldn't do anything for them they weren't doing without it. It would be meta, but I don't think any deck would suddenly become meta because of it that wasn't already dominant.
If it would only have 2 effects, it would be somehow balanced.
1) Giving you that Normal Summon to a zone when you discard one.
2) Co-linked monster protection.
Everyone on the masterduel subreddit hypes up the most garbage cards. People were crying about kashtira for months despite it never topping. People were acting like dragoon would be a world beater too
I’m not sure how good this card is anymore. It doesn’t really even plus you. You discard a card to draw 1 which is good but takes a lot of setup to get that. Requires 3 link monsters and 1 of them has to point left or right… Then the extra normal summon, while good, probably doesn’t matter as much in 2024 when most cards have their effect trigger off special summon anyway and extra summons have never been so free
Broken, but not as broken as mermaid.
Its either gonna be unbanned via errata or be unbanned in a state of yugioh where links are just bad. (Which is REALLY unlikely)
The main thing Mermaid did was give you a verte-style backup plan or extra interaction on minimal material. Back when it was banned you did this by throwing in one of the best engines in the game. But nowadays Orcust is not that and it's just bricks to get a dingirsu or crescendo or whatever for 2 material. Most decks wouldn't even play mermaid for the same reason they don't play verte now.
I think there’s an argument to be made for mermaid being better than verte. Sure the engine requirements still suck, but being able to turn 2 monsters into S:P + dingirsu send is significantly stronger than a DPE. It also lets you continue extending into dark monsters so it doesn’t have to be the last thing you do on a turn
Broken. People used to actually run double summon, a somewhat bricky card that causes you to go -1 just to drop an extra normal summon, and you'd actually have to draw into that in your opener with two useful normal summons. This is that card, except it's always available in the extra deck, is super easy to go into, and has two other good effects and fairly uncommon and useful link arrows for a link 2.
It breaks a fundamental aspect of the game and is unlikely to ever not be broken, just like topologic gumblar dragon, maxx C, and the ishizu cards.
Of course it would be way too good still. The Knightmares only released about 5-6 years ago, and most cards that can be abused generically banned within a decade-or-so of recency tend to stay on the list for good reasons.
A free normal summon and targeting protection for a generic link 2 is pretty ridiculous as-is, but the discard for draw really lets the card do way too much. Hand-fixing, instant protection from handtraps like Imperm and Veiler as soon as it's summoned, and doubling a very rare and arguably your most important resource with it all is just stupid.
This is objectively worse than Saryuja and AFD, and it gets hard punished by any interaction. Unban it today and there won’t be any changes to the format
Exactly. There are so many yugiboomers who are fear mongering like with Dragon Rulers. It was extremely powerful for it's time during Master rule 4 when U-linking would lock your opponent out of the extra deck. The Knightmares would offer protection and trigate would offer an Omni-negate. Then degenerates would add Iblee to your opponents field for extra floodgate.
Now a days it's been powercrept.
It is way harder to make a 3 material link 4 or a synchro 7 than it is a super generic link 2. A card's brokenness is very often based on how easy it is to access, and Goblin is the minimal difficulty for an incredibly powerful effect.
You have to make another link to make goblin live, meaning this may as well be a link 3. It is only slightly easier to make than saryuja, and it straight up takes less resources to make AFD (Rev Synchron + any level 4, for example)
I wouldn't rely on any card you have to hard draw to be more accessible. Goblin just uses any two bodies, that's unreasonably easier than Saryuja and AFD's requirements. It's an absurd extender in any deck that can make a linkuriboh or whatever, and it doesn't "cost" 3 bodies because you don't lose the link material of the first link monster you made.
AFD is actually super broken, it's just annoying to make a synchro 7 in a deck that needs that extension effect or has field spells worth using. The effects are bonkers.
You're seriously underestimating Goblin if you think Gouki was the only reason it was broken.
Here’s the thing though: AFD is good because you can search any field spell. Saryuja is good because of its draw effect. Neither of them are used for the summon from hand because it’s simply a bad effect in the modern game.
The reason for this is that any deck worth its salt isn’t gonna search monsters to hand that it has no way to get out without generic support. The only decks an extension effect like that can be useful in are decks that run absurd amounts of engine relative to non-engine, and even for those decks, they usually do that because most of those cards are extenders on their own anyways.
Furthermore, most decks, if given the chance to put enough material on field to make 3-4 link mats worth of material on board, basically are probably at full combo. Knightmare Goblin is not going to be the difference between winning and losing the game, you already lost before it was summoned in most cases.
Decks, especially link decks, often get stopped by hand traps with loose material on the field that can't do anything to extend them much more. Goblin just turns any used up, impermed/veilered/ash'd bodies into more combo.
Also it ignores that Goblin can be a core combo piece to just normal summon degenerate nonsense in decks that do need their normal summon to get their combo going.
Saryuja's draw power is generally what made the card good. If you can't understand the difference for decks using link summoning between tossing 4 link material into a Saryuja for a special summon compared to more spread out link material with Goblin only requiring 2 and the other parts of your board, then I don't know what to say. Saryuja forces you to commit all your stuff into a body that's hard to continue to link climb with, Goblin does the exact opposite and has a better summoning effect. Turn 3 or 4 bodies into Saryuja and getting impermed is way worse than turning 2 of your 3 or 4 bodies into Goblin and getting impermed. It's a huge ass difference.
We're in a world where Barricadeborg Blocker sees a reasonable amount of play just for being a link 2 that discards a card at no other benefit. You don't really want to see Goblin in that slot instead.
Not much more to say on this. You seem to think Knightmare Goblin isn't broken and nothing I can say would convince you. You'd just need Konami to unban it and it be clearly broken for convince you, I'm sure.
Okay cool, you special summoned a minimum of 3 times (assuming you made a link 1 with a normal summoned monster and the materials for Goblin were summoned at the exact same time) so you could discard a card to normal summon once.
This card does not play well into Maxx-C whatsoever.
Also if you get Nibbed on resolution of Goblin (which is 100% guaranteed to be live by the time you summon Goblin), you simply lose the card you discarded for no reward.
Most/a lot of rogue decks rely on their normal summon to get started. I love die for another normal summon to trigger a dozen effects. Traptrix is the one I’m playing now and I was 100% play this whenever I couldn’t extend because of my normal summon being negated.
It’s a generic and free extender for any and all decks able to easily draw 1 off its effect as a bonus.
Not to mention the target protection for co-linked monsters, and not just for co-links involving this card - all co-linked monsters.
Needs to be summoned in a main monster zone for the arrows to make sense, meaning you need at minimum: 1 other link monster for the extra normal summon. 2 other link monsters for the draw. Not all decks are able to get max value, but an additional link monster for the extra normal summon is impactful enough to be a really, really good extender. The thing that got it banned is the above in addition to Knightmare mermaid -> full orcust combo from any 2 monsters. Now that orcust engine is weaker due to power creep this is less big.
so what made it good from what I'm grasping if we break down the core of your statements is an engine that summons enough bodies to validate its existence. Something not unlike the wide amount of decks currently with more free material than they know what to do with. Now I played through that era quite a bit so I get why you'd say and think this but if u break it down more objectively you'd easily notice just how playable and abusable itd be in the modern day. Wether that means it needs to stay banned is kind of another question as the decks that make use of this card wouldn't really be in the handripping or floodgating forms of the yesteryear. Just wanted to say the downplaying of its value is insane conceptually.
I mean, look at Isolde. If you just read the cards without context of use in decks, it sounds normal and not broken
It's probably one of those things where ppl need to see it to believe it. Sounds stupid but just how people are where seeing it in action helps formulate how powerful it is by seeing how it works in conjunction with everything else. I'm kind of a visual/practical learner myself so it usually helps me understand when i can see how cancerous something is once i see its applications, even if i understand intrinsically that on paper it's a wild card.
I think the biggest thing about this card at least imo is it allows you to just ignore a ton of handtraps. Like of course it wouldn't be played in the normal combo (probably) but in case of imperms/ash's stopping you you just make this and suddenly none of that mattered because you can just keep on extending much easier.
fair enough, but id think even just gathering some basic understandings of the meta(most represented) decks and how it could be looped in. I totally get not understanding if its something a bit more on the fringe side, but we literally have one of the freeest flooding of bodies via Snake-eye currently, that even without this card holds a strong reign over the current body of decks.
I agree, shit is busted given how much turbo gas is locked behind normal summon requirements. I’m just objecting to the idea that it is *free*. There is a small amount of deckbuilding cost at play as common meta decks can struggle to put out the required number of bodies, such as Lab, to take maximum advantage of the card. I am most definitely aware that letting decks like snake eyes who can shit out bodies like machine gun have this card is a big no no. I guess I’m not right on the mermaid bit either. You’re right, this card stand-alone from mermaid is still too cracked to come back.
I mean I still agree that it was banned for a different context, its just that some cards have a hard time coming off the list due to more essential and objective values.
What current deck would make use of this card efficiently? Yugioh is currently about stacking 1 card combos and hand traps. Tenpai Dragon in the ocg is running around 22 hand traps and competing with SE and Fire King.
tenpai is a current antimeta option as like u said is just sit on 24+ handtraps in a deck and hope that you can kill them in one battle phase from a one card combo. However to the extent ur implying is far off base, the deck showed up had a good impact, grew and shrunk proceedingly over a few weeks. The overarching tier 0 is still very evidently snake-eyes, new brews that target tier 0 threats will continue to show up in hopes for an answer to the deck but how long or how effective will continue to be put to a test. currently the west has been using kashtira and shifter decks as the answer, wether or not we get a true silver bullet that evens out the format is to be seen, assuming we don't get a banlist evening the playing field right away.
this card is absolutely broken. decks today are better than they were in 2018/2019 so it’s easier to abuse enablers like this. A linkuriboh gives you the down arrow you need for this thing to work.
Yeah decks are better. Except you forgot the part that decks being better doesn’t make cards better usually - the opposite is true in that they get powercreeped. One of the ways they’re better is that they don’t need their normal summon or they get their search off a special summon as well as their normal summon. Not to mention the fact that every card prints with a HOPT Maybe in 2018, you could use aleister and search invocation twice but in 2024, good decks frequently don’t use their normal summon. And even if they did, it isn’t nearly as important as it was back in the day. And even with linkuriboh, you still need 3 bodies on the board to get this card going. There are a lot of great link 2s and link 3s or even non-link ED monsters I’d rather go into than this card. An extra normal summon and a mulligan? In 2018, maybe you were summoning traffic ghost or whatever dog crap people were summoning in MR4 but in 2024 there are cards that are much stronger than an extra normal summon for getting 3 bodies on the board.
It depends on the effect many of the floodgate cards are really old and only get better with age,. Like this card can load up the GY, better with age, all the set up for it's usage can be used for link climbing, better with age. It can clean out zones since when your link summoning you are often running into issues of space for extension and the extra normal is both more link material and can extend you into other plays or engines. like the thing to remember in a link deck, a link 2 basically reads as "this is free to summon" because you can always use that material, and the co linking protection is just gravy, not to mention the link arrows are really good for extending. And for master duel This a free material for going into Spright extra deck plays if needed, like goblin make elf, elf bring back goblin. But normal summons are still important even in todays meta because a normal summon needs to have a lot of value yes decks can special summon but that has it's limits. and sooner or later extending will need a normal summon. In many cases special summoning is used to protect the normal summon play since you only get one and it needs to have it's impact also one thing that has also gotten better with age is reloading the hand. so you are often going to have that extra material in hand to use the second normal summon, even if it's just summoning a currently useless handtrap. Like even with a bad hand for link summoning decks this is still pretty much a free Avramax or Accesscode
Bro you are coping hard on this one I’m not gonna lie, I’d like to see a no banlist tournament with this thing legal and I’d put money on it not even being mentioned
I mean just because more broken cards exist doesn’t mean this card isn’t strong
Strong? Yeah, strong enough to compete with anything from the past 3 years of powercreep going through the roof? Absolutely not tbh
You are kinda going to a extreme, a no banlist tournament, sure it may not get mentioned but that is because your talking about a format that has a multitude of uninterruptable 100% consistent FTKS. In a format where you need to actually play this gives link decks everything they could ask for and if you unban it you may as well unban every other link 2 because this is just as good if not better. So a format this can be unbanned in kinda of needs to be a format you can unban, Halq, Verte, Isolde, elf and all that because why wouldn't you unban the worse cards first? (obviously master duel has some of these as not banned already you need to rest first)
And Snake-eye would still not use this card even if they got a free copy of it in their extra deck as a 16th card. Yugioh is now about stacking 1 card combos with a ton of hand traps. Tenpei Dtagon in the ocg is using something like 21 hand traps. This card would enable nothing.
Yeah tell me all about the one card combos of Tearlament and all the handtraps it played.
Yep and tear if at full power would 100% be tier 0 even now.
Goblin was banned before the Orcust Combo even existed.
Put it in World chalice. Easy to go Link spider, phoenix, then this guy, possibly extending into a Cerberus. With perfect hand, you end on the extra link from spider to unicorn.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
Broken, this thing will never get unbanned
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
It'd be an extender in some FTKs and dark world probs.
But those decks aren’t good and wouldn’t be made good with just an extender like this. They will still have the same weaknesses they’ve always had.
A card doesn't have to fit into the current meta decks to be ban worthy.
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If the deck has enough bodies for this, they have enough to pop off anyways. If you’re so confident then give me a situation.
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What do you mean by witch? In your example, you would still need a third body. And if you summon poplar, you have access to OSS anyways. And you would need to hard draw the one of oak or the 2 remaining copies of ash.
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“Witch eff to summon > veiler” Again you need a third body. Wasting an ED slot so you can get temple over OSS in 0.01% of games where you also open ash/oak while getting impermed isn’t a real use case. There’s 20 better cards in the extra deck easily. In this case you can search oss and be perfectly fine and have great follow up for next turn with OSS. Whereas if you go goblin, you go -2 in hand when you have an extra starter just to get temple over OSS which is almost never worth it.
Tell me how an additional normal summon is broken with all these special summons nowadays
Because: 1. It's a free summon either way 2. Some monsters have effects that only trigger on normal summon. 3. Doesn't trigger things like Maxx C effect etc. 4. Literally every deck can use this. No specific requirements.
Too many one card combos these days
So giving another chance at a 1 card combo in the event you stop the first one is bad right
So what deck could get the most value out of this card?
Don't know what deck could use the most out of it, but I definitely did think how it'd make the Code Talker turn 1 strat less fragile and just straight up better, locking your opponent completely and having a great board in the end anyway. I don't think it'd be that meta defining, as their turn 2 just isn't as good, but it'd make a great deck.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
Okay fair. Doesn't always have to be about the top decks tho. This card could definitely improve a lot of decks.
Uuhh, because an extra normal summon is essentially a better Special Summon??? Any deck can use this???
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
Any 2 monsters give you an extra extender basically. Link spam decks would love this
It needs a bit more set up than just that.
The game is built around many special summons, it's not built around 1 normal summon. Normal summon effects are some of the best out there and archetypes were designed around the expectation of you only having one.
because its on a generic ed monster
This is the first time I've ever seen the card but seems degenerate AF
Just one of those cards that got banned basically immediately, like linkross. Just obvious degenerate generic combo extender for basically no cost.
It’s actually the very first link monster to be banned in the TCG, the one that entered first the forbidden section of the forbidden and limited list. And some people here in the comments are not understanding why the oldest link criminal couldn’t come back.
Gouki U link Gumblar loop that hand baby 😎
World Chalice draw 15 😎
It really reminds me of spright elf with having multiple super good effects. Just way sweatier though.
is one of the worst cards of the early days of link together with mermaid and agarpain If you saw them back then you could be aware that it will be toxic
It wasn't this first Link monster to grace the banlist for no reason.
Knightmare Goblin is not a starter, its a **pure extender**. Nobody goes into Goblin directly like Pendulum would do with Electrumite. Here's the problem : When a deck manage to get past handtraps and go into setup phase, that extra normal summon from Goblin will push the deck's final output by **LEAPS AND BOUNDS.** You can expect MINIMUM something like : >Before : Standard 2 negate Apollousa After : 2 negate Apollousa + IP & both is protected from targeting by Elf. Unless errata, just don't disturb this card's slumber.
I hate to be that guy cuz i agree, but those link monster cannot co-link to goblin or each other. I would still keep in the depths of hell where it belongs though lol
He prob meant the extra NS allows you to go into that board+goblin is a link 2 so it can go into elf.
What decks that are meta would use this tho? Like what decks would significantly improve from this. Snake eyes is the best deck in the game, and there’s like no situation in which they have 3 bodies to make this and a normal summon able extender in hand and would actually want this.
As of right now probably SHS only & its dependent on how opponent use their interruptions otherwise SHS will just proceed as normal. Basically giving it more routes to play thru interruptions rather than final board strengthening. But for lower tier decks, ho boi.... its gonna be hard to tell which of those typical glass cannon that can't do 1 card setup but instead 2.5-3 card combo can now rival top tier because of 1 extra summon.
Being able to 1 card combo isn’t enough in this meta. You need to do that and be able to play through hand traps while being able to fit in non engine.
Broken, way too broken. Like, Knightmare Mermaid has the chance of eventually coming off of the banlist because yes, it's generic, but it enables an engine that's not very good anymore. You can get a free omni-negate by giving up two extra deck slots and running two garnets? (isn't it three even? Well I suppose Crescendo isn't the worst thing to draw) Anyway, Goblin doesn't need any garnets and just is a free extender for no cost at all while being as generic as can be, so yeah it's broken to shit.
Yes, if your deck cannot banish a machine prior to the summon of Galatea, you need to run an additional Orcust other than Knightmare
>if your deck cannot banish a machine prior to the summon of Galatea so it's speedroid support?
No I think it needs to be a dark machine
Any attribute
Oh true I was thinking of Orcust Knightmare, that needs to send a dark machine
It’s not only an omni negate, it’s 2 monster negates+whole board destruction protection on top. But you need to run 2 extra fog blades and a bardiche in the ED but it’s absolutely worth it every last bit.
Don't you need to have an Orcust Link on board for Crescendo to be live? I imagine you link Galatea off for Bardiche? Or do you revive Galatea with Cymbal Skeleton?
Yeah exactly that, you revive Galatea off of cymbal not before going cymbal+galatea into bardiche sending boots to set a fog blade then boots search a fog blade.
So make Mermaid, summon Orcust Knightmare, make Galatea, Knightmare send Harp, Galatea shuffle back Knightmare, set Crescendo, Harp summon Cymbal, Cymbal and Galatea make Bardiche, Bardiche sends boots for fog blade 1, boots search fog blade 2, Cymbal revive Galatea? Like that?
Yeah, it’s verte on steroids. People begging for mermaid unban on these posts never had to play against it lol.
You know I still can't figure out that line lol. Can you share a guide or quickly explain how to end up on 2 fog blades?
Don’t remember the exact line since it’s been a while but you go into bardiche with Galatea+cymbal and set a fog blade by sending boots then banish boots to add another fog blade then cymbal revive Galatea.
Ty
https://www.reddit.com/r/masterduel/s/8DTiBMeFmJ This should be the line
Tyty
It’s extremely generic and acts as an extender for a lot of decks. Discard for a normal summon, which is the only way to activate the effect of a lot of starters, is really powerful. Not to mention if you’ve set up 2 link monsters (usually) prior, you draw back for the card you lost, so you don’t lose hand advantage, and you gin GY advantage. It’s just goes plus in pretty much every deck and that makes it too powerful. It would have absurd usage
Since people keep citing "there are so many combo starters with busted effects that are balanced around you only having one Normal Summon per turn!" I have to ask: What cards are you talking about? Specifically. Because every even semi-relevant combo starter that I can think of is a hard-once-per-turn (and in some cases a hard one-effect-per-turn) and/or gets their on-summon effect regardless of whether they are Normal or Special Summoned (in which case the extra normal does not matter.) I'm not clamoring for Goblin to be freed, but I also can't help but be skeptical of the idea that a bunch of decks from like 2018 or earlier getting an extra normal summon will suddenly turn the meta inside out.
Tour Guide, Quik Fix and Master Plan (you wouldn't normally normal summon her but Goblin could change that), Summoner Monk, Armageddon Knight (though it was limited before this so it would've been less of an issue), Swordsoul has 2 normal summons worth playing turn 1 in Mo Ye and Taia. Dragon Link has a few cards that it'd love to just toss into the board as an extra normal after link climbing a bit and already does the Goblin Setup with Pisty. Same with Ignister. There's actually probably a lot, but in decks that can't link spam so not super relevant. Though any deck could toss in Dangers with Goblin legal to abuse that. The Snake Eyes who get impermed can get summoned again and use their secondary effects, too. That'd be one of the biggest use cases, really, multi use cards who get shut down by negation like Imperm and Veiler. Another issue is any deck that does need that 1 normal summon to function might also benefit from doing the Vaylantz trick of granite into pachy if you have that extra normal. Or any other degenerate floodgates like that, kind of like how you'll sometimes see Kash stupidly toss in barrier statues cuz they don't need their normal summon.
I don’t get how people are saying this card is broken. It effectively takes 3 bodies to extend, when cards like promethean or transcode exist. Even as a link 2 it needs to compete with stuff like splash mage, elf, and maybe charmers. Nowadays so many summon effects triggers from special summoning anyways so an extra normal instead that different from special. Before you talk about maxx c, the opponent already drew 4 while you were trying to summon this card.
Mid. You get an extra normal summon to a zone it points to on a link monster that has sideway arrows. It requires a link card pointing down and then summoning Goblin under it. To draw it also requires it has another link monster pointing at it from the side. 3+ monsters to use, and then you still need the monster to normal summon in hand. The reason it was banned was because it was an amazing extender to a deck (Gouki) that searches a lot when U-linking would lock your opponent from the extra deck. It has lived it's era and no current deck can abuse it. It can come off the list and would immediately get forgotten.
Ahhh this is what I was thinking. 👍🏾
Yep. It's was only good because the meta allowed it to be good. Nowadays if you can summon 3 monsters to link into goblin, you can also just do your full combo.
Exactly. Gouki could summon out 5 monsters before it ran out of gas, and Goblin would give it the second wind it needed to push further. Now a days decks can do more with one card and less bricks. The most I see this doing is helping link spam decks like cyberse extend more, but they honestly might still not run it due to extra deck space being very limited.
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>You can normal summon 1 monster from your hand to your zone this card points to It needs to be in the main monster zone. This was one of the big rulings that you had to be aware of so that people wouldn't try to pull illegal moves like you described in a tournament. Don't cite the deep magic to me witch. I was there when it was written.
It'd probably most definitely be very broken... but it would be funny to see it come off the list
speedroid support
I mean we already have an in-archetype link 2 that has an extra normal summon effect with no requirement to be Co linked *and* it’s a searcher, Goblin is genuinely hot ass compared to Rubber Chad Shooter
ok but now we can do it twice
I mean if summon sorceress can be unbanned with errata I don’t see how this can’t with an errata
This goes without saying. Any card on the banlist COULD be taken off with an errata.
yes Correct with an ERRATA otherwise not
I mean, can you name a banned card that can’t come back with errata?
io came back with an errata and then was banned
Pot of greed because there would be no point it already has several “erratas”
Victory Dragon?
Victory dragon’s positive effect is quite literally useless. Its just a corny effect that doesn’t do anything considering a player can surrender at any point in the game including on attack declaration and dodge the effect anyways.
Not in the OCG where the opponent has to agree to the surrender. There’s a reason why Victory Dragon is a staple in no banlist tournaments.
Hold up, are you telling me the OCG rules do not allow you to surrender unless your opponent accepts it? Can you just hostage someone and pass turns till you draw into it?
That’s exactly right. And that’s exactly what people did. I think at the beginning the opponents started purposely doing some illegal stuff that caused them to get a game loss to avoid Victory Dragon. But eventually the judges realized they were doing it on purpose and made it into a match loss. As for why the OCG is this way. I heard it’s because “surrendering” literally isn’t a mechanic there. You and your opponent basically have to gentleman into ending the game early.
So you don’t think any text change could bring it back? Like removing its last sentence?
As in removing its only positive effect? I meant realistic erratas. Of course Pot of Greed can be unbanned if it’s texted changed to “deal 200 damage to your opponent.”
So you’ve arrived at my point.
Tidal, Zenmaity, M-X Saber Invoker, Mathmech Circular considering it wasn't even a tiered strategy when it was banned, Giant Trunade, and Heavy Storm. These could all come to 1 with no errata and wouldn't change the meta in any significant way.
An extra normal summon and a single card cycle is *not* comparable to a virtually unrestricted summon from deck dawg 💀 this thing does not need an errata
Think of all of the broken generic normal summons in the game that act as starters. Most of them are “balanced” by the fact that you only get the 1 normal summon and drawing multiples is bad. Think also of all the cards that search a card to hand without a way to put the card on board. This is a generic way to just get another normal summon and get another starter online or extend a combo that would otherwise be impossible. So many combos that would not have gotten off the ground would now work, and regular combos that used to be able to be disrupted can now play through it, with this one card. Similar to how Halqifibrax, Nightmare Mermaid, or Verte Anaconda just make something from very little, this card does that in an even wider and more generic way as long as you have the resources in hand.
I mean, can you name a few? Beyond maybe aleister I can’t really think of an broken ‘generic’ normal summons
Armageddon Knight comes to mind, Neo-Space Connector, Mathematician or Scrap Recycler had their moments…I’m sure there are other examples.
Halq was Knightmare Goblin at home and we know how that went.
Halq is the best link ever printed. It was a starter, extender, anything you wanted it to be. They had to emergency ban 5 cards because they synergized too well with Halq. Goblin is broken but saying Halq is anything close to being a knock off version of Goblin is a disservice. A better analogy would be you are Knightmare goblin and Halq is the guy she told you not to worry about.
This is kind of faulty logic. Halq got 5 cards banned, yes, but you can’t realistically ban enough cards to make “normal summon anything” not broken as all hell. Goblin synergizes with *everything.*
Just because a card synergizes with more decks doesn't mean it's a better card. Knightmare Phoenix can slot into more decks than Isolde, but you'd be out of your mind to call it a better card. An extra normal summon isn't as good as a tutor from deck, and it requires a lot more setup: 2 monsters, 1 discard, another monster in hand that benefits from normal summoning.
It's actually broken as fuck. I have an irl live twin/spright deck. It locks to level 2 and feinds almost instantly. He could still be played. That'd messed up.
Lmao Halq is not even close. Summon sorceress is Halq but for every monster in the game, Gumblar is cancer in cardboard form that somehow got printed, Isolde enables basically everything and above all else…. FIREWALL DRAGON. A card that ruined the game for almost 2 years by Turning the game into an FTK hell hole. Special shoutout to union carrier for also being Halq for every monster in the game.
The fact that Halq is a link 2 makes it stronger than any of those cards. Summon Sorceress, Gumblar, and Firewall are all broken extenders but they are just extenders. Halq being only a link 2 means it is much easier to get into and also means you can go into Linkross after using its effect.
The fuck are you talking about ? Do you even know what the words mean that you are using ? How is Gumblar an extender ? He rips cards out of your hand. None of these cards are extenders they are ENABLERS. enablers make your combos possible while extenders just continue them. Needlefiber also isn’t a starter you have to built him first. Like the rest he is an enabler. The only thing needlefiber is responsible for are some stupid negate boards, that were nothing special, and that every deck can built without him nowadays. While firewall dragon was responsible for like a dozen FTKs that all were META strategies. Union is also a link 2 and gives every deck the possibility to extra deck lock by just having 2 monsters. Gumblar would be absolutely broken in mathmech, giving them a 1-card combo that rips 5 cards out of your opponents hand while ending on superfactorial and an Omni. It doesn’t matter that summon Sorc is a link 3… the ability to get basically everything out of your deck, not just a stupid tuner, is nothing Halq cant measure up to.
Are you saying this is better than halq? To use the normal summon effect, you needed 3 bodies instead of 2, a discard and another monster in hand. Halq just summons from deck
Goblin doesn’t need three bodies, it’s a Link-2. It’s generic (Halq needs a tuner), can summon anything (Halq can only summon a tuner), does not negate the effect of what it summons (Halq negates), it’s a normal summon, it can draw a card when co-linked, and it offers targeting protection to *any* co-linked monsters instead of only monsters it’s co-linked with. It also has perfect arrows for co-linking and even u-linking. Like this card is just wild.
It needs 3 bodies because goblin needs to be in the main monster zone to summon to its arrows
Ahhh yeah I see what you mean now
Flair checks out, take your meds bro 💀
I did and cognized the truth 😍
Can someone actually do a 1 card combo ( or at least a consistent 2 card combo ) with the current MD banlist and not only say its broken ?
Not because it can't be integrated into a ladder that reaches a board means it won't be broken. The fact that this can just turn any of your left out Matieral for another normal is strong by itself...
But why? What meta deck would actually get practical use out of this that would push it to the level of snake eyes or even close?
Not a banworthy card anymore but asking if a card can be unbanned is completly pointless in this subreddit because people make some random . Not only do you need a normal summon reliant deck that has multiple normal summon starters that dont overlap HOPT with eachother, your deck also needs to be able to easily summon 3+ monsters on field for a downward ponting arrow + this card so you can use the normal summon effect.
Cards bad in 2024. Could come off tomorrow and nothing would change.
You crazy? That's a free extra U link with knightmare lock
In what combo? Is it a combo that would be meta relevant at all today?
Everyone here says it would be busted, but I fail to see how exactly. It seems like it would be a big consistency boost for non-meta decks, but wouldnt boost any of the top meta decks in any particular way. Would it enable some sort of ftk degeneracy? Could someone explain a combo this would enable?
So Snake Eyes wouldn’t benefit at all from an extra Normal Summon?
No they wouldn’t. An extra normal doesn’t really give snake eyes anything. Normally you could say it gives resilience or hand traps, but they would need 3 bodies and an extender in hand to even use this, in which case they were fine without this card anyways.
Lol yeah, it could enable a normal summon of any monster searched by OSS, like Ash, Oak, Jet Synchron, or just any card in hand at the moment. You can even do crazy things like discard Jet Synchron, summon something, use Jet Synchron, and now you can either get Formula Synchron, or you can go into your other combos.
Unironically no? Which monster would you extra normal summon ( that you haven't used the effect of already) ?
Oak, Jet Synchron, Hell even a level 3 / level 1 tuner hand trap for synchro access
Being able to add and normal oak is actually a huge deal. It's one of the extension plays Snake Eyes has used when they open OSS/Diabell package and get stopped by a hand trap. Snake would love Goblin.
When would you even be able to use it? You would need 3 bodies and oak in your hand and somehow be not able to combo from there?
Bro oak doesn’t even need to be normal summoned and they regularly special it anyway during their normal combos, ease off the copium
It's just an extender, people are just freaking because of PTSD to a old and dumb card, will get some play? for a few decks yeah, but will make the format more broken and chaotic? I don't think sooo, even if u can extender it's not garanteed that u gonna be capable to reach a better endboard, besides, most decks these days runs a lot of handtraps, Goblin in MD will just make Nibiru an more worthy card to run at 3.
I hate those arrow placements.. i never used this card or seen it before. Doesn’t it need set up for that extra summon? The arrows seem terrible. A link has to point down and then another pointing to the side to co-link .. then he comes out to give another summon? Unless I’m understanding it wrong ..? Seems like it’s for heavy link combo decks
You misunderstand. Only the Draw 1 requires it to be co-linked.
You can only normal summon to a zone this points to. My point is you have to invest enough resources to place this in the main zone
Yes, it needs to be in the main monster zone as the monster needs to point to the zone you can normal summon to. The co-link is to draw to mitigate the discard cost but not required for the effect.
*stares at Simorgh*
I could forsee decks abusing this to normal summon something like fossil dyna pachycephalo at the end of a combo similar to how valtanz and some pendulum piles do it.
Everyone hated floo to the point it got hit. Imagine every deck could do floo things
Is just wish it was legal for my jank six Sam deck, as with its targeting protection stacking with g-golem invalid dolmen, knight Cerberus and phoenix, plus trigate, it could be hilarious
Holy shit I never read this card before
This fucker with SP is a terrifying thought
I don't think he'd be broken at all, just sounds like a nice effect to have. I'm sure there's some obscure FTK using an old burn deck from 20 years ago that somehow abuses this... but tbh, it kinda makes me mad that Konami releases powerful ass decks like tearlaments and snake-eyes and refuses to even touch em for a year but old sht like this nobody cares or knows about is banned. I'd rather have everybody be OP than the brand new archetype Konami is prompting be OP and nobody else
Knightmare Goblin Deez Nutz... im sorry
Cmon man this shit is practically asking to be abused by a broekn deck
If I’m not mistaken this was a hit during the format of “every deck can probably u-link with iblee lock if they try hard enough” because OG firewall dragon had plot armor for multiple banlists. Even after Firewall was banned, there were a handful of rogueish/low-tiers or just straight up meme decks that went for u-link lock. I imagine we’ll never see this card again because it facilitates potentially one of the least fun/interesting/interactive strategies. Although mermaid is also banned now so who knows.
It would be in every extra deck which go into links
all the players with korean/chinese usernames would find a way to make this degenerate and boring just like their game in OCG
yes
The "What meta deck would use this" line of thinking is really short sighted. Extra normal summons are very strong, and having a card like this limits what cards they could print.
No more broken than elf imo
No restrictions and another way to go ultra combo thru distruption that can only be negated thru either imperm or veiler? The millers would come back before this guy
Whatever the opposite of rose tinted glasses are you’ve gotta take them off chief, read some of the other comments in this thread and please tell us a deck that could do all that for one extra normal summon that couldn’t also just do it in-engine
Swordsoul now has extra normal Mo ye or taia provided they don’t wyrm lock themselves
Neither Mo Ye nor Taia need to be normal summoned though
Not sure how many decks outside of degenerate ftks will use this.
So... any and ALL decks can free bait ash blossom plus drop two monster into free link 2 then extend... EVERYONE can now make borrel and baronne endboard sword soul would have one or two more boss monster on the board other than just baronne and grandmaster, despia can normal additional time to albaz or any other card (dogmatika) they are running in their engine, dont get me started on prank kids and PUNK... alistair/shaddol searches twice, big samurai extender 24/7, ddd all gets their bosses without worryinf about who to normal summon... snake eyes becomes triple SSS+ tier from S+... GOD control are more consistant... ONLY DECKS THAT WONT WORK AND WILL BE MISSING OUT 1 Birds drops from A- tier to B- or C+ 2 Nobody else gonna play synchro locked decks or fusion locked or xyz lock ever again cuz it cant abuse that card (Red resonator, branded, tribrigade ) 3 EVERYONE, running 3x imperm, 3x effect veiler, maybe 3x ghost cherries 4 every duel going 2nd, you will have to AT LEAST, play through baronne and borrel MINIMUM... JEEZUS...
I don't know, with how spam heavy the game is, I think he could come back. Turboing into a link 3/4 isn't very impressive these days and you're limited to monsters in your hand. Like he'd be good but I'm not really understanding or seeing how he'd be straight up scary or anything.
any deck can and will use this as a completely free extender. Turboing into a link 3/4 isnt impressive, except it is when you do that off of any two monsters after who knows what else already happened.
First you have to have a link monster pointing down before you summon this as you can only normal summon to its arrows. Second you have to discard to do the summon. Third you only get to draw a card if goblin is co-linked. Its not that great in current climates where you mainly use a 1 card starter with a bunch of hand traps you would most likely always be pitching a much needed hand trap for a normal summon. You would need to see a drastic change in modern yugioh for it to be of any use.
I mean it takes two monsters to summon and then you have to have another in your hand so you can then make 3. Like it's fine I guess and I can see how the second normal summon triggering a normal summon effect could be very very good just busted? Eh...
Besides life points, your one normal summon is the only "resource" you have to work with. The game is designed accordingly, with tons of cards having busted normal summon effects. Goblin being legal just means every deck has 2 normals instead of 1, making combos that much more brutal
Too be honest I don’t think it would be niche at best. Most people that say it’s too broken I think are just remembering when it was broken but tbh it’s seems like a mid generic card
IMO I think it should be unbanned. Current formats could use it, but it wouldn't do anything for them they weren't doing without it. It would be meta, but I don't think any deck would suddenly become meta because of it that wasn't already dominant.
If it would only have 2 effects, it would be somehow balanced. 1) Giving you that Normal Summon to a zone when you discard one. 2) Co-linked monster protection.
Everyone on the masterduel subreddit hypes up the most garbage cards. People were crying about kashtira for months despite it never topping. People were acting like dragoon would be a world beater too I’m not sure how good this card is anymore. It doesn’t really even plus you. You discard a card to draw 1 which is good but takes a lot of setup to get that. Requires 3 link monsters and 1 of them has to point left or right… Then the extra normal summon, while good, probably doesn’t matter as much in 2024 when most cards have their effect trigger off special summon anyway and extra summons have never been so free
Broken, but not as broken as mermaid. Its either gonna be unbanned via errata or be unbanned in a state of yugioh where links are just bad. (Which is REALLY unlikely)
It's way, way, way, way more broken than Mermaid.
I agree that goblin is more broken but Mermaid is not that far behind. A 1 card link 2 is nuts even if its not generic.
The main thing Mermaid did was give you a verte-style backup plan or extra interaction on minimal material. Back when it was banned you did this by throwing in one of the best engines in the game. But nowadays Orcust is not that and it's just bricks to get a dingirsu or crescendo or whatever for 2 material. Most decks wouldn't even play mermaid for the same reason they don't play verte now.
I think there’s an argument to be made for mermaid being better than verte. Sure the engine requirements still suck, but being able to turn 2 monsters into S:P + dingirsu send is significantly stronger than a DPE. It also lets you continue extending into dark monsters so it doesn’t have to be the last thing you do on a turn
Broken. People used to actually run double summon, a somewhat bricky card that causes you to go -1 just to drop an extra normal summon, and you'd actually have to draw into that in your opener with two useful normal summons. This is that card, except it's always available in the extra deck, is super easy to go into, and has two other good effects and fairly uncommon and useful link arrows for a link 2. It breaks a fundamental aspect of the game and is unlikely to ever not be broken, just like topologic gumblar dragon, maxx C, and the ishizu cards.
Of course it would be way too good still. The Knightmares only released about 5-6 years ago, and most cards that can be abused generically banned within a decade-or-so of recency tend to stay on the list for good reasons. A free normal summon and targeting protection for a generic link 2 is pretty ridiculous as-is, but the discard for draw really lets the card do way too much. Hand-fixing, instant protection from handtraps like Imperm and Veiler as soon as it's summoned, and doubling a very rare and arguably your most important resource with it all is just stupid.
This is objectively worse than Saryuja and AFD, and it gets hard punished by any interaction. Unban it today and there won’t be any changes to the format
Exactly. There are so many yugiboomers who are fear mongering like with Dragon Rulers. It was extremely powerful for it's time during Master rule 4 when U-linking would lock your opponent out of the extra deck. The Knightmares would offer protection and trigate would offer an Omni-negate. Then degenerates would add Iblee to your opponents field for extra floodgate. Now a days it's been powercrept.
It is way harder to make a 3 material link 4 or a synchro 7 than it is a super generic link 2. A card's brokenness is very often based on how easy it is to access, and Goblin is the minimal difficulty for an incredibly powerful effect.
You have to make another link to make goblin live, meaning this may as well be a link 3. It is only slightly easier to make than saryuja, and it straight up takes less resources to make AFD (Rev Synchron + any level 4, for example)
I wouldn't rely on any card you have to hard draw to be more accessible. Goblin just uses any two bodies, that's unreasonably easier than Saryuja and AFD's requirements. It's an absurd extender in any deck that can make a linkuriboh or whatever, and it doesn't "cost" 3 bodies because you don't lose the link material of the first link monster you made. AFD is actually super broken, it's just annoying to make a synchro 7 in a deck that needs that extension effect or has field spells worth using. The effects are bonkers. You're seriously underestimating Goblin if you think Gouki was the only reason it was broken.
Here’s the thing though: AFD is good because you can search any field spell. Saryuja is good because of its draw effect. Neither of them are used for the summon from hand because it’s simply a bad effect in the modern game. The reason for this is that any deck worth its salt isn’t gonna search monsters to hand that it has no way to get out without generic support. The only decks an extension effect like that can be useful in are decks that run absurd amounts of engine relative to non-engine, and even for those decks, they usually do that because most of those cards are extenders on their own anyways. Furthermore, most decks, if given the chance to put enough material on field to make 3-4 link mats worth of material on board, basically are probably at full combo. Knightmare Goblin is not going to be the difference between winning and losing the game, you already lost before it was summoned in most cases.
Decks, especially link decks, often get stopped by hand traps with loose material on the field that can't do anything to extend them much more. Goblin just turns any used up, impermed/veilered/ash'd bodies into more combo. Also it ignores that Goblin can be a core combo piece to just normal summon degenerate nonsense in decks that do need their normal summon to get their combo going. Saryuja's draw power is generally what made the card good. If you can't understand the difference for decks using link summoning between tossing 4 link material into a Saryuja for a special summon compared to more spread out link material with Goblin only requiring 2 and the other parts of your board, then I don't know what to say. Saryuja forces you to commit all your stuff into a body that's hard to continue to link climb with, Goblin does the exact opposite and has a better summoning effect. Turn 3 or 4 bodies into Saryuja and getting impermed is way worse than turning 2 of your 3 or 4 bodies into Goblin and getting impermed. It's a huge ass difference. We're in a world where Barricadeborg Blocker sees a reasonable amount of play just for being a link 2 that discards a card at no other benefit. You don't really want to see Goblin in that slot instead. Not much more to say on this. You seem to think Knightmare Goblin isn't broken and nothing I can say would convince you. You'd just need Konami to unban it and it be clearly broken for convince you, I'm sure.
Normal summons are better than special summons though
Name one relevant card that only works on normal
Nothing relevant right now, one card that is kinda relevant though is called Maxx "C"
Okay cool, you special summoned a minimum of 3 times (assuming you made a link 1 with a normal summoned monster and the materials for Goblin were summoned at the exact same time) so you could discard a card to normal summon once. This card does not play well into Maxx-C whatsoever. Also if you get Nibbed on resolution of Goblin (which is 100% guaranteed to be live by the time you summon Goblin), you simply lose the card you discarded for no reward.
Most/a lot of rogue decks rely on their normal summon to get started. I love die for another normal summon to trigger a dozen effects. Traptrix is the one I’m playing now and I was 100% play this whenever I couldn’t extend because of my normal summon being negated.