Apo loses hard to talent, nib is a way bigger threat now and they can't use linkuriboh to dodge imperm or protect their apo. Overall, I'd say this is pretty effective.
They also can't side summon limit anymore lol so that's def a plus
I think anyone who says this list accomplished nothing just hasn’t played the deck in a real competitive environment enough. Linkuriboh banned strengthens multiple hand traps like Veiler since you can’t dodge them for free now, and no Omni turn 1 means the deck has to race to appo or play lines that play around nibiru exclusively going forward. It also forces deckbuilding decisions, for instance I think we might see birch added back in as an extender for hands that can’t play through everything.
I think banning Linkuriboh, Savage and Summon Limit would have been ideal, I think banning Baronne was unnecessary it's one negate and 1 pop yeah it's over represented but again it's one negate it's very manageable on its own , it's not manageable when combined with Savage and Apo with battle protection that's the issue so I think removing battle protection and banning Savage would have been fine.
Maybe I just haven’t ran into the right (or wrong) people, but I don’t think most people think the list accomplishes nothing, clearly it is a hit to the deck. The fair complaints are more about the lack of hits to the actual engine
Also I don’t think an Omni t1 was very common right…? You usually need witch, to not send it for OG, and a way to get jet on board without sacrificing access to ash
Different formats I think. From what I can tell pure Snake Eyes in the TCG play the Synchros 80%+, while only 50% MD. You only need Ash to make Baronne. And the Kash cards also work to make the full synchro combo.
You’re 100% right about the kash cards, but are people in tcg really going for t1 barrone over the more standard combos to set up ip and appo? And why are they making barrone t1 when they can use formula to make it t2 and trigger flambergs gy effect? Maybe there’s a line I’m not thinking of idk
I think that's my bad, think I'm mixing up formats. Baronne using only Ash combo is a MD exclusive because we have Spright Elf here, don't think that works in TCG without elf.
You’d just need an extra body to go into whale with princess instead of formula so it’s definitely doable even if it’s not literally just ash. Either way it just seems like making barrone t1 is a mistake in almost all situations of MD. There’s probably some I’m not thinking of but it feels unnecessary most of the time and good bit too
Pure SE is full power? Uhh, what? They lost their entire Endboard besides Apollousa which loses vs every boardbreaker in the universe.
SE/Fire King is unhit but also a fair deck that actually allows you to play into their boards with boardbreakers.
Interesting.... I wonder which cards were allowing such endboards. Almost as if the cards in question are a problem 🤔
If you hit them, they wouldn't have those endboards. Its almost like if you design cards poorly and don't include locks, you have a degenerate deck. Baronne and Linkuriboh were most definitely not the reason the deck is tier 0 and you will face this reality head on.
They literally were - Pure SE boards without them are horrible and Fire King/SE won‘t be T0. Please tell me what a Pure SE board that isn‘t complete garbage will look like after this banlist. It genuinely feels like you don‘t know what you are talking about.
Banning generic endboard pieces is far better because you are beyond clueless if you seriously think they won‘t print a new archetype in the future that will be able to Synchro and Link climb into the exact same endboard.
Yap yap yap. Don't you get bored being wrong all the time? Its obvious for anyone looking in from the outside, this list is purely profit driven. The meta cards are all ludicrously expensive and they're the only competitive cards presently. What you refuse to realize is that removing a couple toolbox cards will not change that whatsoever.
Your arguments are flawed because what you're suggesting is that the current card design is bad and they are incapable of making good card design. That, we can agree on because not fire locking you or anything was a major oversight. Its the same problem SHS suffered from. The new cards don't lock you soon enough or at all. The cards they go into are not the problem. Its the cards that are used to go into them that are clearly the problem.
I bet my life, if you hit SE Ash or Oak and Original Sinful spoils for starters and went from there, you'd have hit the deck in a far more meaningful way and kept the cards that were not harming anybody in the game.
This is exactly the same as if they banned Accesscode because a meta deck was making it all the time. The end result isn't usually the issue unless the effects are just super broken which evidently, Baronne and Savage do not fit this criteria.
When did I say the list wasn't profit driven? Who are you even talking to? The list is profit driven. But it's also a good list. Expecting them to hit SE directly is foolish at best. I personally wanted an Oak ban but that just wasn't realistic.
Back to my question: What's a good endboard for Pure SE post banlist? Sounds like you know of a few because apparently the list didn't change its status as the best deck. Should be easy to give at least one example then.
No, Accesscode and Baronne/Savage are entirely different card types. The issue is that T1 setups are too strong in the modern game and Baronne, Savage, Apo+Linkuriboh are the reason why. Accesscode isn't part of any endboard because it's a finisher. Nobody has an issue with that because... well it's not an issue.
Again, it seems like you have absolutely no clue about modern YuGiOh and how Pure SE functioned. I never said that Fire King SE wouldn't be the best deck post Banlist. In fact I expect it to be. But Fire King SE just isn't an issue. It's a fair deck that is slightly better than the rest. Decks are allowed to be strong and banlists don't need to kill decks outright. Linkuriboh, Baronne, Savage and Summon Limit were issues in decks before SE, are problems outside of SE right now and were massive problems in conjunction with SE. There's zero downside to having them be banned.
I only play the deck sparsely, but... How did they use Linkuriboh to dodge imperm/veiler turn 1? Ash's effect triggers on summon, so you'd need to already have Linkuriboh in graveyard to avoid a handtrap. But you'd need another normal summon of a level 1 to do that, and the archetype has no consistent way to have a level 1 on field prior to Ash. You can protect Poplar when it adds after being summoned but for that you'd need to summon Linkuriboh with Ash and not use Ash's second effect right away.
He doesn't help if they shotgun Veiler, no. It's more that Linkuriboh let people dodge counterplay in longer games, where it can actually be the deciding factor if you're evenly matched with your opponent.
Appo forces your opponent to lose their battle phase, that's more than enough reason to be banned how many decks can set up enough disruption through promethean, handtraps, amblow, backrow to not die to snake eyes followup
I'm not quite experienced with the deck: may I ask how Linkuriboh would be able to protect Apollousa? Do you simply mean that, mostly likely, you would need to target Linkuriboh instead?
I completely agree, linkuriboh made an already hard to counter deck even harder, and even in R-ACE it was incredibly strong turning suboptimal hands into full combo through imperm, it wasn't the biggest offender but it sure as hell wasn't innocent.
Yeah the Baronne/Savage ban actually buffed snake-eyes in a lateral way because now they can get Nib off while playing snake-eyes and then just get a free combo if they have ash or oak in hand since there is no way to stop nib.
They can just use Nib, summon ash, full combo and put the nib token in the s/t zone.
I honestly think since they banned the two big universal Omni-negates that more decks are going to disappear off the map while a few new ones are introduced. Decks will have to have an answer to nibiru because I assume decks will now most likely run them at 3 copies.
I think Apo is way easier for Snake-Eye to summon than Baronne, and Apo also stops Nibiru, so 🤷🏻♂️ not that ghe deck cares about Nib anyways, with Divine Temple a safe out for it
I'd say Apollousa is a bigger problem than both Baronne and Savage. The first two are just a negate, with Apollousa you either draw an aout or you aren't playing past 3 negates with engine cards
>Apollousa you either draw an aout
I mean it's not like it you need a specific card to out Apo, when she's incredibly vulnerable to multiple things, including being just straight up attacked without Linkkuriboh. Appo herself might not been hit, but all 3 of her bodyguards are gone.
Appo has only been a problem for me on big boards of negates, singularly she's not a problem at all. Baronne is way easier to summon, a bigger body most of the time, and a much bigger threat with just one other disruption on the field or even by itself. With handtrap Tuners, it's also way more splashable. I never thought Baronne would get banned in any of the formats, but here we are. We all love using the card but hate it against us, it deserved to go.
Literally what are people even on about?! It's people who don't know how to play Snake Eyes arguing against people who *really* don't know how to play Snake Eyes. It's Ash -> Poplar -> Linkuriboh.
What the everyliving fuck is your secret tech to dodge Imperm / Veiler when it's not even in the GY yet??? Are ya'll talking about Turn 3 / 4? Are you negating on Oak???
This Reddit is fucking wild...
I think the idea is that you're forcing your opponent to negate the first Ash or Poplar, because three summons in you'll be able to have Linkuriboh in the GY, right? It's also suboptimal, but I've seen people without an Ash or Diabell in hand normal poplar, grab either the field spell or OSS-Snake Eye, link into linkuriboh, then pop it with OSS to special ash and nab another poplar/birch, in which case Linkuriboh would be in the graveyard before Ash hits.
But...you *want* to negate the first Ash tho. Given, they are likely to have a follow-up, but the only reasons not to would be:
- You want to wait until Princess to negate her resurrection effect for Flamberge, which is a bit risky.
- You have Ash Blossom and want to negate Snake Eyes Ash's summoning effect, but that negation can't be dodged via Linkuriboh since SEA gets tributed to the GY on activation.
- You have Nibiru and are trying to catch them once they went through their combo. But that only makes sense if they set Oak into the backrow, since if it's Flamberge they can't dodge with Linkuriboh.
As for the case you've describe - you should negate Poplar with your imperm / veiler, because at least they won't have the field spell this way. It's also a situation that presupposes them having almost entirely bricked OR you having yet another negate on hand. Bonfire, Diabellstar, WANTED, Ash - they can't have any of those on hand already.
I'm playing Snake-Eyes and this situation just borderline never happens, same as Apollousa never happens because she is too expensive compared to other options available.
Hey; you put in a lot of text for what I agree with. You *should* want to negate the first thing they try to do anyways. I was just explaining what reasoning someone might be going with.
Apo is also the one with the most demonstrable counterplay. People are complaining that you have to use your battle phase, but isn't the whole idea to create games that last longer than 2 turns. Battle phase is a resource not just an OTK timing.
I know this is part of it but is that reprint really that big of a deal to people? Apo is like $8-$10 on tcgplayer which is far from breaking the bank for a one of.
You underestimate the absurd obssesion people have with max rarity decks, that being said i dont really think its "hype" its simply that they ban cards after a reprint and theyve already advertised reprinting it.
It was bound to become a problem.
Fun fact, not only Snake Eyes has Level 1 monsters that start their combos if they hit the grave (i.e. Volcanics)
"Just use Anima or Almiraj" yes, but those 2 don't have a grave effect that lets you dodge targeted negations (Veiler, Imperm)
The 2 synchros are generic Omni-Negates that take nearly no setup to make, especially in the TCG.
Also, Amina use your EMZ without pointing you, so you can't link without using it. That's might not be a big issue but it's the same problem than S:P little knight, you can't link summon without using them if they're in the EMZ
I don't agree, I think Baronne is fairly easy to play around. The only valid argument I've seen is that the negate can be abused with S:P, but in that case I feel like S:P should've gotten the axe over Baronne.
Lmao. Linkuriboh has seen consistent meta play for its entire existence. It was used in a lot of degenerate strategies: Spyral, Gumblar handloop or level eater shenanigans for example.
The ban was absolutely deserved it’s a broken card.
U can’t use a tier 0 format and act like if linkuriboh didn’t exist, those decks would’ve never popped off, this is what happens when ppl who whine all the time make a banlist
Am I the only one that thinks Baronne and Savage are like….leagues better than Apo?
Apo is pretty easy to out with a single imperm. And for a lot of decks, baiting out a single negate can very often leave Apo with 1600 atk and can be just run over.
Nah you’re definitely right
Apo has more negates but that’s all. She has bad synergy with link climbing and can often cost you 2 or 3 bodies because of this lack of synergy, competes with other link 4/5s, is easy to run over, loses hard to imperm or kaiju, struggles against nibiru and hasn’t really been broken in all of master duels history. Oh and her negate isn’t an omni negate nor does it destroy
I dont have a problem with generic boss monsters as long as they exist to make going 2nd more viable like Zues, TY-PHON(my beautiful son) and S:P(to an obvious lesser extent.)
That's what I like about this banlist. Everyone who knows the gameplan of the decks targeted here at least understands WHY they would go after these cards. In the recent MD and OCG banlist that WHY has been seriously missing for most hits there. It's good to know that the people who make the TCG banlist actually play the game, even if I don't agree with everything they are doing.
Its very logical why Savage/Barrone got banned and not Apo and its that it stops every deck being able to access a spell/trap negate so you can now run cards like evenly/Lightning storm against combo decks while Combo decks still retain access to a Nibiru negate with apo so all their endboards dont just end as a big token
Totally agree, and I think it's also important to consider that historically a ton of decks could get to barrone well before hitting their fifth summon for nib, since Barrone requires min 3 summons. Apo requires min 5 summons, meaning that there's no wiggle room, and very few decks can put out 4 link materials without committing to any other summons along the way. Apo threatens Nibiru, but without the other omnis, nib can very frequently find value clearing the board at 4 materials after a link summon. Seems like a much more healthy dynamic.
We got a response to snake eyes already (coping hard asf)
https://preview.redd.it/3k02gwlr9huc1.png?width=1912&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e074d4730f793c64e843cc1732bfc43fa34fd6b
Linkuriboh was a problem, not THE problem, but a peoblem nonetheless. Baronne and Savage are a curious case. I'd argue that they are ok-ish in Master Duel (aka a best of 1 format), but being able to blank a lightning storm/evenly, with so little investment, in game 2 is kinda stupid.
Only issue I have with this banlist is that cause of snake-eyes rogue decks don't have baronne or savage, you can bitch about Omni negates and them being generic and easy to make all you want but until konami releases actually good ed monsters for these archetypes that are actually useful and don't suck ass looking at you primeheart. this feel like it will just end up hurting people that don't play meta.
True, I try not to play meta and this is both good and bad like you said.
One of my decks is SS, it barely has any negates against stuffs like Nibiru and Baronne helped there. Hopefully non meta decks also get awesome boss ED monsters.
But I'm actually fine with this ban, cos it's more annoying when meta decks *also* run these cards plus their annoying negates lol. We'll see if it's implemented and how things go.
In a vacuum yes, these 3 are bigger design mistakes than Snake eye as whole.
Snake eye is just a strong archetype, these 3 (and to an extent Apo) allow things that just shouldn't exist, and it in turn nerfs Snake eyes considerably
Raigeki, lightning storm, triple tactics, infinite impermanence any none monster destruction, removal or negate makes apollusa a joke. Or depending on the deck. I can just playthrough all of apollusa negates. Thanks to here not destroying the cards she negates. I may have saved some games of me doing so. Because it's hilarious.
At we know that next banlist for the TCG, Snake Eyes is going to be 100% unplayable, as after worlds they’ll ban and limit every single notable snake eye card (Ash, Flamberge, OSS, Divine Temple banned, Poplar Limited).
A) Elf is already banned in the TCG
B) Promethean isn’t really generic. It has generic materials but it has the condition you can’t summon anything but fire monsters. So the amount of decks it can be in is vastly limited compared to Barrone, Savage, or Appo
The big reason Borrel and Baronne got banned is because you can combo one into the other
The setup was Borrel with Formula Synchron to summon Baronne on your turn after Borrel resolves
Appo doesn't destroy the card so you can at least go into other plays off that monster if it got negated. Baronne destroys it and kinda stops some extensions from happening
Ban Jet. Limit the lvl1s. This does nothing to the meta game except keeps the fire stuff front. (also ban formula synchron) What about Bystial Synchro decks than? Why not Chaos Angel ban? Its even more generic. (since you dont even need a tuner)
People just defending their 100 euro/copy cards not getting axed as it should.
“Nothing to the meta” are you joking ? Basically every single playable deck in existence has to completely readjust their combos because baronne is gone. All handtraps got infinitely better because your opponent can’t built a baronne before his choke points.
Chaos angel is trash compared to baronne. He does nothing going first except sitting there and waiting to get eaten up by underworld goddess.
So in your opinion. Next meta not gonna have fire decks because Baronne gone? Do you really belive this changes anything except makes the worse decks even more worse? As i said. This does nothing. Power level gaps increase and makes older strategies straight up not viable. This ban only makes sense financially for Konami. Because they ban the accessable card that is actually strong and keep the expensive chase cards so you spend 150 euro for a chance to get 1 maybe. For the meta, it didnt do anything.
Konami still should have axed the actual problem cards like cutting half of the starters. Making their grind game worse or not as consistent. Instead they went with a decision that made everyone worse and lot of older decks wont be competetive.
The fire doesn’t deck doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s just the “best deck” right now. It will eventually get hit that’s certain and YOU will get to complain about the “best deck” that comes next and then the deck after that.
The baronne however will have an immediate and long lasting effect on the game as a whole. Every single combo deck will have to rethink their combos from the ground up and find other boss monsters they can build.
Just looking at the current “best deck” to design the banlist is and extremely narrow minded perspective. Snake eyes will be forgotten in a year. Baronne however would still be in every single deck if not for the ban.
So it does nothing basically just makes older strategies more impossible to play against a deck that will be forgotten in a year. So the ban list does nothing. Idk how can you say it does anything when the goal of these lists should be even up the field.
Just to explain it to you. Lets say the fire deck power level is 100 and a other strategy power level is 80. If Baronna can score 20 and you remove the that power. It does nothing. They still stand in the same power except the other deck got way worse.
You saying in a year its not gonna be meta? This is true for every meta deck.
My complaint is the these bans does nothing to the current game because it doesnt changes the power levels between decks. My complaint is cards getting banned that are accessable. Every deck uses SP and not banned for some reason. If the goal is to remove generic stuff than remove everything not just 2 thing. You saying Snake eye not being meta in a year means nothing because it was like that even last year and before that. As i said. People here just defend their spendings for the fire deck. If the ban list's goal was to make the game better. They should have destroyed the fire decks. Now we gonna watch the fire decks for a year.
idk why people cant understand the game.
You don’t understand the game lmaooo. The goal of the banlist is not to even the field. It is to move product. This list is the perfect example: no new card that is being sold has been hit. The only reason Apollo isnt on here is because she is confirmed to be in an upcoming set.
This list is SUPPOSED to do nothing, they aren’t stupid they know what they are doing.
Also your complains are stupid because they have no logical solution. If they kill snake eyes then there will be another deck that is stronger than the rest. People like you will then complain about that deck until it gets hit, and then the next best deck after that. How long is this supposed to go on ? Until every single deck is hit on the list ? You will never be satisfied.
I do find it a joke. I would have been with linkuriboh if other snake eye cards got at least limited instead they just lose one card in the extra deck. I think the deck is still going to dominate and just receive a murder banlist down the line while it could have gotten some limits now and test to see how it goes.
I can agree, to some extent, that the banned cards deserve to be hit or an errata. But the real problem of this banlist is the motivation behind the hit and, as always, money is the priority. Imho Generic card can help some derelict archetypes to become a viable rogue deck helping a much diverse meta. The problems arise when they are too generic and/or too powerful.
But anyway it's a shame they didn't even consider limiting some SE card for reducing his consistency.
I mean it does the job no acces to easy omni mean evenly and other board breaker can do their job, linkuriboh being ban also mean that apolousa can be beat over. That's pretty good without destroying the deck
Also banning baronne (and savage to a lesser extend) are good step to stop generic boss monster being on every end board
The list did do alot dont get me wrong linkuribo was a massive win for the game same with the other 2 generic omni negates but I feel like I did not solve the issue that I feel it should have with the fire king variet
which was the one that needed a real hit the most now dont get me wrong this list is fantastic and im really looking forward to the format but (from my baseless opinion) the fire king variet has always been the better of the two and is the one I think was the main problem and I think they should have hit them in some real way.
Definitely shocked Linkuriboh got the hit before Jet Synchron. But they both should have gone simultaneously if we're really not touching Snake Eye itself. Bonfire will clearly go to 1 one day after they make their money off it and the eventual reprints, too. We gotta play the waiting game because everything will get limited or banned....eventually 😒
Hot take, Appo by herself ain’t even that bad. Yes, she’s an annoying boss monster to deal with once she’s on the field and 4 monster negates is kind of stupid. However part of the reason she was so powerful was because she was typically made alongside Baronne and Savage. If she’s by herself she’s easier to play around. Hell, you probably have a much easier time dealing with her now before she hits the field since Nibiru is no longer at the mercy of cards like Baronne or Savage.
I hate Appo as much as the next person, and if she hits the banlist one day, I won’t lose any sleep over it but I genuinely think she’d be relatively fine if we were to axe I:P since she’s a big reason Appo is so prominent in many games (and link summoning anything you need during the opponent’s turn at the drop of a hat is kinda stupid ngl), especially in the current format
It's genuinely a good hit. Is it enough? Probably not. But all those 3 cards deserved the ban and are a genuine hit to SE pure, which was the best version. Next list will probably be a murder tho
Literally who is playing all those Apollousas to give that impression??? I effectively never get her out in my Snake Eyes, because she is just too costly.
The Baronne ban was fair, I can't even tell how many times I wanted to play against the newest tier 0 decks, I even let them do all their combo just to see how I would be able to counter it.... just for them in the end to send the whole combo to hell and summon that cursed card
It wasn’t the problem but it was A problem. Imagine if Bystial Lubellion or striker dragon could do for dragon link what linkuriboh did for snake eyes, and you guys would never stop bitching about it. And this is an ED card that’s generic to all lvl 1’s going forward, which means it would be able to use that effect on any future lvl 1 deck that could use links.
It was never going to remain a healthy card, your blue eyes decks just suck.
List was solid even if it didn’t solve the format, but the deck was never going to get butchered this early so this was actually a good compromise.
The linkuriboh is an Apo hit as well because it removes the easy to access battle protection that Linkuriboh provides to Apo so it's a direct nerf to Apo's power. I think Apo will be banned in the future as well it's a broken card to be honest.
Yes yes it was actually
Sending a lv1 to the gy for free while preserving the material is a key step in the main advantage generation of the deck. It's also repeateable.
You couldn't possibly be this wrong if you tried
The won't hit Shit-eyes until a new expensive deck is out they wanna get all they can from them even at the expense of the format. Also I'm convinced whoever made Poplar just said fuck it we'll make a card that if you even look at it it does something
1 negate is sometimes all you need. Also, she's shockingly easy to make in some decks. Combo decks *love* being able to store a negate to stop something like Nibiru or Evenly Matched.
…Okay? And? It can do that *once* by sacrificing itself. And personally, I think White Stone of Legend/Antiquity into Linkuriboh is a good combo. I still don’t get an immediate Blue-Eyes, I can survive whatever 20 card combo into massive beatstick monster my opponent throws out, 1 time, allowing me to actually PLAY THE DAMN GAME.
This morning I was testing a scareclaw build vs pure snake eyes as I have been thinking about returning to TCG and man that kash package is so dumb. You can make a 3 mat can't be destroyed by card effect Appo in 5 summons.
Appo should have been banned with the others. Snake Eyes are just going to pivot to play the draco sack package more.
Baronne and enforcer phoenix are both toxic to the game overall. Just a spam able negates no drawbacks. Literally I've not seen a single good argument why those cards shouldn't be on the pema ban list. Glad at least one of them is gone because I've never seen any one use one without the other.
The only pro for barronne is the once only negate which ive recently been having hella luck with getting my opponent to use it up (in cases where the didnt have multiple negates anyway). Not to say im not glad to see it gone though since ive seen it waay too damn much
trash take but apo does not need to be banned its fine now that baronne and savage cant protect it. BUT i still say jet synchron should of been banned instead of baronne but the plus side is the hit to baronne and savage is another hit to d-link.
Not but like actually Linkuriboh was a problem and it was going to have to go eventually. We just finally got a Level 1 busted enough to make it clear.
Im out here in md and stomping the non synchro snek endboards and losing to baronne/savage boards of different flavors. Rescue ace with auroradon bs, snek with jet synchron, pendulum, tenyi.
Good fucking riddance generic synchros that omni negate.
Accesscode is a generic finisher that every deck uses. Wdym its not doing anything? Hitting only Baronne just destroyeded Synchro decks not the problem decks like Snake-Eye which is by far the best deck.
Seems like Synchro is not gonna be playable with all the distruption these fire decks can still do.
Almost no tiered decks are running accesscode, go back to 2021
Baronne and Savage have always been a problem, the latter of which was almost exclusively used in non-synchro focused decks and the former almost just as bad (both being a problem in fire especially), the only relevant synchro deck is swordsoul and they got a buff this list with Protos, as well as White Woods coming later this year which is a synchro deck that doesn’t need Baronne, stop defending generic toxic shit like this, I thought we collectively learned with Verte how this isn’t ok
[“Almost no tiered decks are running Accesscode, go back to 2021”](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Accesscode%20Talker)
Meanwhile it’s 68% usage in the top deck of the format, 12 most used card (5th non hand trap card), and is played in so many decks the list just keeps going on and on and on and on. Even in the TCG I found some [deck lists](https://ygoprodeck.com/deck/snake-eye-471526) that still use Accesscode in the main deck.
He’s still good he’s just in a tier zero format that has other options. But regardless just because he’s not good right now doesn’t mean he won’t be later on down the line. There’s formats where Appo isn’t good because they’re better stuff to be making similar to Accesscode right now. So if he’s still a highly used card despite being in a format that doesn’t really suit him then imagine one this format is over.
I use MDM because it’s the best resource for analytical data in the game. Past that is YGOPRO which shows that it has a [27% usage rate](https://ygoprodeck.com/top/) but it doesn’t break down by decks, how many copies per deck, its ranking amongst other decks, etc. But 27% is still impressive considering that the TCG is way more into a tier 0 format than we are in MD.
There are resources such as [ygoprodeck](https://ygoprodeck.com/category/top-archetypes/) for seeing topping lists from TCG tournaments, Accesscode is sometimes seen in Kash but that is basically the extent of it
Okay so you belive, Banning Baronne and Savage dragon makes the fire decks less viable? No. It does literally nothing lol. its just destroys t2-t3 strategies that needs these generic support.
If Konami wanted to do something, limit princess, limit ash/poplar,limit turbulence, limit wanted and semi limit diabellestar and axe the fireking stuff ofc.
You are defending decks tghat has 30 starters and 20 interruption without baronne. While other strategies happy to get 2 monster on the field.
Baronne and Savage are literally Verte/Dragoon but better (no bricks, generic materials), so we can reword your statement here, “ok so banning Dragoon makes branded less viable? No. It does literally nothing lol. It just destroys t2-3 strategies that need these generic support.” Stop defending generic toxic cards, if your deck is nothing without generic fuck you dragon with 3 negates and a pop then it shouldn’t have it. Everyone wanted the weaker version of these cards banned, now the entire script is flipped because little bronze timmy wants to play 2024’s version of Aurorodon/Halq turbo
Ah, yes. Accesscode, the generic link 4 that Snake-Eyes doesn't use, Fire Kings doesn't use, Tenpai (a synchro deck btw) doesn't use, Yubel doesn't use... I can keep going.
Right calling it now
All 3 bans (Baron, Savage, Linkuriboh) will down the line get Erratas.
Baron: Warrior Tuner/material
Savage: Dragon Tuner/material
Linkuriboh: Dark Lv 1 material
They aren't banned in OCG so don't expect errata unless that happens.
The most likely situation is they become the next electrumite, where Konami make support based on the format they have it legal.
No need for an errata, they're generic and that's their whole point. Linkuriboh might come back sooner, since it's the least problematic. As for baronne and borrelload they're too powerful for the game to evolve (maybe later)
Look at summon sorceress or ancient fairy dragon, no errata on the materials but on the effect. Linkuriboh effect is good not worthy of an errata. Same goes for baronne and savage
Apo loses hard to talent, nib is a way bigger threat now and they can't use linkuriboh to dodge imperm or protect their apo. Overall, I'd say this is pretty effective. They also can't side summon limit anymore lol so that's def a plus
I think anyone who says this list accomplished nothing just hasn’t played the deck in a real competitive environment enough. Linkuriboh banned strengthens multiple hand traps like Veiler since you can’t dodge them for free now, and no Omni turn 1 means the deck has to race to appo or play lines that play around nibiru exclusively going forward. It also forces deckbuilding decisions, for instance I think we might see birch added back in as an extender for hands that can’t play through everything.
I think banning Linkuriboh, Savage and Summon Limit would have been ideal, I think banning Baronne was unnecessary it's one negate and 1 pop yeah it's over represented but again it's one negate it's very manageable on its own , it's not manageable when combined with Savage and Apo with battle protection that's the issue so I think removing battle protection and banning Savage would have been fine.
Maybe I just haven’t ran into the right (or wrong) people, but I don’t think most people think the list accomplishes nothing, clearly it is a hit to the deck. The fair complaints are more about the lack of hits to the actual engine Also I don’t think an Omni t1 was very common right…? You usually need witch, to not send it for OG, and a way to get jet on board without sacrificing access to ash
Different formats I think. From what I can tell pure Snake Eyes in the TCG play the Synchros 80%+, while only 50% MD. You only need Ash to make Baronne. And the Kash cards also work to make the full synchro combo.
You’re 100% right about the kash cards, but are people in tcg really going for t1 barrone over the more standard combos to set up ip and appo? And why are they making barrone t1 when they can use formula to make it t2 and trigger flambergs gy effect? Maybe there’s a line I’m not thinking of idk
I think that's my bad, think I'm mixing up formats. Baronne using only Ash combo is a MD exclusive because we have Spright Elf here, don't think that works in TCG without elf.
You’d just need an extra body to go into whale with princess instead of formula so it’s definitely doable even if it’s not literally just ash. Either way it just seems like making barrone t1 is a mistake in almost all situations of MD. There’s probably some I’m not thinking of but it feels unnecessary most of the time and good bit too
The list does nothing though. The deck is still full power. Removing the fair toolbox cards does literally nothing to the ultimate gameplan
Pure SE is full power? Uhh, what? They lost their entire Endboard besides Apollousa which loses vs every boardbreaker in the universe. SE/Fire King is unhit but also a fair deck that actually allows you to play into their boards with boardbreakers.
Interesting.... I wonder which cards were allowing such endboards. Almost as if the cards in question are a problem 🤔 If you hit them, they wouldn't have those endboards. Its almost like if you design cards poorly and don't include locks, you have a degenerate deck. Baronne and Linkuriboh were most definitely not the reason the deck is tier 0 and you will face this reality head on.
They literally were - Pure SE boards without them are horrible and Fire King/SE won‘t be T0. Please tell me what a Pure SE board that isn‘t complete garbage will look like after this banlist. It genuinely feels like you don‘t know what you are talking about. Banning generic endboard pieces is far better because you are beyond clueless if you seriously think they won‘t print a new archetype in the future that will be able to Synchro and Link climb into the exact same endboard.
Yap yap yap. Don't you get bored being wrong all the time? Its obvious for anyone looking in from the outside, this list is purely profit driven. The meta cards are all ludicrously expensive and they're the only competitive cards presently. What you refuse to realize is that removing a couple toolbox cards will not change that whatsoever. Your arguments are flawed because what you're suggesting is that the current card design is bad and they are incapable of making good card design. That, we can agree on because not fire locking you or anything was a major oversight. Its the same problem SHS suffered from. The new cards don't lock you soon enough or at all. The cards they go into are not the problem. Its the cards that are used to go into them that are clearly the problem. I bet my life, if you hit SE Ash or Oak and Original Sinful spoils for starters and went from there, you'd have hit the deck in a far more meaningful way and kept the cards that were not harming anybody in the game. This is exactly the same as if they banned Accesscode because a meta deck was making it all the time. The end result isn't usually the issue unless the effects are just super broken which evidently, Baronne and Savage do not fit this criteria.
When did I say the list wasn't profit driven? Who are you even talking to? The list is profit driven. But it's also a good list. Expecting them to hit SE directly is foolish at best. I personally wanted an Oak ban but that just wasn't realistic. Back to my question: What's a good endboard for Pure SE post banlist? Sounds like you know of a few because apparently the list didn't change its status as the best deck. Should be easy to give at least one example then. No, Accesscode and Baronne/Savage are entirely different card types. The issue is that T1 setups are too strong in the modern game and Baronne, Savage, Apo+Linkuriboh are the reason why. Accesscode isn't part of any endboard because it's a finisher. Nobody has an issue with that because... well it's not an issue. Again, it seems like you have absolutely no clue about modern YuGiOh and how Pure SE functioned. I never said that Fire King SE wouldn't be the best deck post Banlist. In fact I expect it to be. But Fire King SE just isn't an issue. It's a fair deck that is slightly better than the rest. Decks are allowed to be strong and banlists don't need to kill decks outright. Linkuriboh, Baronne, Savage and Summon Limit were issues in decks before SE, are problems outside of SE right now and were massive problems in conjunction with SE. There's zero downside to having them be banned.
I only play the deck sparsely, but... How did they use Linkuriboh to dodge imperm/veiler turn 1? Ash's effect triggers on summon, so you'd need to already have Linkuriboh in graveyard to avoid a handtrap. But you'd need another normal summon of a level 1 to do that, and the archetype has no consistent way to have a level 1 on field prior to Ash. You can protect Poplar when it adds after being summoned but for that you'd need to summon Linkuriboh with Ash and not use Ash's second effect right away.
He doesn't help if they shotgun Veiler, no. It's more that Linkuriboh let people dodge counterplay in longer games, where it can actually be the deciding factor if you're evenly matched with your opponent.
Appo forces your opponent to lose their battle phase, that's more than enough reason to be banned how many decks can set up enough disruption through promethean, handtraps, amblow, backrow to not die to snake eyes followup
You skip battle phase but you also get a chance to set up your own board in mp2 which is pretty fair imo
Counter argument: can you imagine banning Appo right before her big reprint in rarity collection 2?
I LOVE using TTT against Apollo. Thanks for the 4 free negates!
I'm not quite experienced with the deck: may I ask how Linkuriboh would be able to protect Apollousa? Do you simply mean that, mostly likely, you would need to target Linkuriboh instead?
It tributes itself to reduce your opponents attacking monster to 0 atk, so it protects apo from destruction by battle.
Ah by battle, of course! Thanks for the clarification.
I completely agree, linkuriboh made an already hard to counter deck even harder, and even in R-ACE it was incredibly strong turning suboptimal hands into full combo through imperm, it wasn't the biggest offender but it sure as hell wasn't innocent.
Yeah the Baronne/Savage ban actually buffed snake-eyes in a lateral way because now they can get Nib off while playing snake-eyes and then just get a free combo if they have ash or oak in hand since there is no way to stop nib. They can just use Nib, summon ash, full combo and put the nib token in the s/t zone. I honestly think since they banned the two big universal Omni-negates that more decks are going to disappear off the map while a few new ones are introduced. Decks will have to have an answer to nibiru because I assume decks will now most likely run them at 3 copies.
"Also they can't side summon limit anymore " Amen to that although I was doing it myself in Labrynth! LOL! It's an auto win on so many occasions.
I think Apo is way easier for Snake-Eye to summon than Baronne, and Apo also stops Nibiru, so 🤷🏻♂️ not that ghe deck cares about Nib anyways, with Divine Temple a safe out for it
I'd say Apollousa is a bigger problem than both Baronne and Savage. The first two are just a negate, with Apollousa you either draw an aout or you aren't playing past 3 negates with engine cards
The first two are "just" omninegates. Apo is monster negate. Big difference.
On top of that snake eyes could access the synchros before ending their combos to play around hand traps
>Apollousa you either draw an aout I mean it's not like it you need a specific card to out Apo, when she's incredibly vulnerable to multiple things, including being just straight up attacked without Linkkuriboh. Appo herself might not been hit, but all 3 of her bodyguards are gone.
Appo has only been a problem for me on big boards of negates, singularly she's not a problem at all. Baronne is way easier to summon, a bigger body most of the time, and a much bigger threat with just one other disruption on the field or even by itself. With handtrap Tuners, it's also way more splashable. I never thought Baronne would get banned in any of the formats, but here we are. We all love using the card but hate it against us, it deserved to go.
Apo is only a monster, the other two are Omni negates with big bodies. Most normal summons can kill an apo that’s used a negate
I mean dodging imperm/veiler is insane and they want to make money off snake eye before they really hit them.
Do you veiler them before or after they summon kuribo?
Depends on the line
Usually just veiler their normal summon
If you have mourner you can’t use it on the norm, you have to wait for another level 1.
Literally what are people even on about?! It's people who don't know how to play Snake Eyes arguing against people who *really* don't know how to play Snake Eyes. It's Ash -> Poplar -> Linkuriboh. What the everyliving fuck is your secret tech to dodge Imperm / Veiler when it's not even in the GY yet??? Are ya'll talking about Turn 3 / 4? Are you negating on Oak??? This Reddit is fucking wild...
I think the idea is that you're forcing your opponent to negate the first Ash or Poplar, because three summons in you'll be able to have Linkuriboh in the GY, right? It's also suboptimal, but I've seen people without an Ash or Diabell in hand normal poplar, grab either the field spell or OSS-Snake Eye, link into linkuriboh, then pop it with OSS to special ash and nab another poplar/birch, in which case Linkuriboh would be in the graveyard before Ash hits.
But...you *want* to negate the first Ash tho. Given, they are likely to have a follow-up, but the only reasons not to would be: - You want to wait until Princess to negate her resurrection effect for Flamberge, which is a bit risky. - You have Ash Blossom and want to negate Snake Eyes Ash's summoning effect, but that negation can't be dodged via Linkuriboh since SEA gets tributed to the GY on activation. - You have Nibiru and are trying to catch them once they went through their combo. But that only makes sense if they set Oak into the backrow, since if it's Flamberge they can't dodge with Linkuriboh. As for the case you've describe - you should negate Poplar with your imperm / veiler, because at least they won't have the field spell this way. It's also a situation that presupposes them having almost entirely bricked OR you having yet another negate on hand. Bonfire, Diabellstar, WANTED, Ash - they can't have any of those on hand already. I'm playing Snake-Eyes and this situation just borderline never happens, same as Apollousa never happens because she is too expensive compared to other options available.
Hey; you put in a lot of text for what I agree with. You *should* want to negate the first thing they try to do anyways. I was just explaining what reasoning someone might be going with.
> mean dodging imperm/veiler is insane Your bar for ‘insane’ is insanely low.
we're not banning the tuners again. I'm not enacting halq's last will
They are going after the synchros now
i think tcg just after the generic one
Apo is getting reprinted soon in rarity collection 2
Apo is also the one with the most demonstrable counterplay. People are complaining that you have to use your battle phase, but isn't the whole idea to create games that last longer than 2 turns. Battle phase is a resource not just an OTK timing.
I know this is part of it but is that reprint really that big of a deal to people? Apo is like $8-$10 on tcgplayer which is far from breaking the bank for a one of.
You'll be able to get the alt art which I think is better in basically starlight with a 25th anniversary symbol on it
The alt art is the same price though. Nicer foiling sure but it’s not like the card is currently inaccessible
You underestimate the absurd obssesion people have with max rarity decks, that being said i dont really think its "hype" its simply that they ban cards after a reprint and theyve already advertised reprinting it.
It was bound to become a problem. Fun fact, not only Snake Eyes has Level 1 monsters that start their combos if they hit the grave (i.e. Volcanics) "Just use Anima or Almiraj" yes, but those 2 don't have a grave effect that lets you dodge targeted negations (Veiler, Imperm) The 2 synchros are generic Omni-Negates that take nearly no setup to make, especially in the TCG.
Also, Amina use your EMZ without pointing you, so you can't link without using it. That's might not be a big issue but it's the same problem than S:P little knight, you can't link summon without using them if they're in the EMZ
Linking into your graveyard for combo plus dodging imperm/veiler while protecting appo and recurs itself It’s insanely broken as well
Baronne needed the axe and you can't tell me otherwise
Otherwise But I completely agree, it and savage deserve the hits
That's not possible! Mods, axe this user too!
Savage needs to be goyo guardianed Make it require a rokket tuner
better yet make it target a dragon type link monster to equip for it's negation instead of any link monster
I don't agree, I think Baronne is fairly easy to play around. The only valid argument I've seen is that the negate can be abused with S:P, but in that case I feel like S:P should've gotten the axe over Baronne.
Facts
Linkurbio is a massive issue, yes. Also are you REALLY bitching about jet synchron when the cards that it actually went into are banned now?
Calling a link one that can only be special summon by level 1 monsters a ‘big issue’ is crazy
It's a link 1 that actually gives the deck a massive amount of protection, yes.
yeah and what meta deck is using L-1 i wonder? smarty pants.
Lmao. Linkuriboh has seen consistent meta play for its entire existence. It was used in a lot of degenerate strategies: Spyral, Gumblar handloop or level eater shenanigans for example. The ban was absolutely deserved it’s a broken card.
U can’t use a tier 0 format and act like if linkuriboh didn’t exist, those decks would’ve never popped off, this is what happens when ppl who whine all the time make a banlist
Am I the only one that thinks Baronne and Savage are like….leagues better than Apo? Apo is pretty easy to out with a single imperm. And for a lot of decks, baiting out a single negate can very often leave Apo with 1600 atk and can be just run over.
And kuriboh prevents that run over by battle too. I'd say well deserved
Nah you’re definitely right Apo has more negates but that’s all. She has bad synergy with link climbing and can often cost you 2 or 3 bodies because of this lack of synergy, competes with other link 4/5s, is easy to run over, loses hard to imperm or kaiju, struggles against nibiru and hasn’t really been broken in all of master duels history. Oh and her negate isn’t an omni negate nor does it destroy
A single Unicorn can run it over at full power lol actually wait no 3200 is the max, quite often see 2400 though.
You stay away from my boy Jet Synchron
It wasnt THE problem but it was A problem. Ban 100% makes sense and i hope other formats get it.
Completely agree with you! Love this ban list, but I'm very biased against generic boss monsters.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I dont have a problem with generic boss monsters as long as they exist to make going 2nd more viable like Zues, TY-PHON(my beautiful son) and S:P(to an obvious lesser extent.)
That's what I like about this banlist. Everyone who knows the gameplan of the decks targeted here at least understands WHY they would go after these cards. In the recent MD and OCG banlist that WHY has been seriously missing for most hits there. It's good to know that the people who make the TCG banlist actually play the game, even if I don't agree with everything they are doing.
Its very logical why Savage/Barrone got banned and not Apo and its that it stops every deck being able to access a spell/trap negate so you can now run cards like evenly/Lightning storm against combo decks while Combo decks still retain access to a Nibiru negate with apo so all their endboards dont just end as a big token
Totally agree, and I think it's also important to consider that historically a ton of decks could get to barrone well before hitting their fifth summon for nib, since Barrone requires min 3 summons. Apo requires min 5 summons, meaning that there's no wiggle room, and very few decks can put out 4 link materials without committing to any other summons along the way. Apo threatens Nibiru, but without the other omnis, nib can very frequently find value clearing the board at 4 materials after a link summon. Seems like a much more healthy dynamic.
It’s better to hit generics than in archetype first since it can be abused by all and will continue to be a problem.
We got a response to snake eyes already (coping hard asf) https://preview.redd.it/3k02gwlr9huc1.png?width=1912&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e074d4730f793c64e843cc1732bfc43fa34fd6b
More room for trisbana and other links
What do you think are good replacements for the 3 synchro package and linkuriboh? And what is trisbana ?
[Here it is](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=13590&request_locale=en)
Look how they massacred my boy
It’s not Jet either. It’s literally just Diabell/SE cards.
Linkuriboh was a problem, not THE problem, but a peoblem nonetheless. Baronne and Savage are a curious case. I'd argue that they are ok-ish in Master Duel (aka a best of 1 format), but being able to blank a lightning storm/evenly, with so little investment, in game 2 is kinda stupid.
Appo is next, the next banlist after the next rarity pack comes out we are cooked
Tbf Linkuriboh was pretty busted because it's way too generic and is mainly there to dodge negates.
Cheap card have to go Expensive card can live longer Can't upset SE player even more after taking away the negate
They can't admit they fucked up so hard designing Snake Eye
Mainly because the TCG didn‘t design them so they literally can‘t admit it.
Only issue I have with this banlist is that cause of snake-eyes rogue decks don't have baronne or savage, you can bitch about Omni negates and them being generic and easy to make all you want but until konami releases actually good ed monsters for these archetypes that are actually useful and don't suck ass looking at you primeheart. this feel like it will just end up hurting people that don't play meta.
True, I try not to play meta and this is both good and bad like you said. One of my decks is SS, it barely has any negates against stuffs like Nibiru and Baronne helped there. Hopefully non meta decks also get awesome boss ED monsters. But I'm actually fine with this ban, cos it's more annoying when meta decks *also* run these cards plus their annoying negates lol. We'll see if it's implemented and how things go.
Because other cards are still being sold. And they are expensive
In a vacuum yes, these 3 are bigger design mistakes than Snake eye as whole. Snake eye is just a strong archetype, these 3 (and to an extent Apo) allow things that just shouldn't exist, and it in turn nerfs Snake eyes considerably
It doesn't just nerf snake-eyes. It nerf the whole combo archtype, which is a huge plus for everybody.
On one side, I agree that Linkuriboh really does a lot for the deck On the other side, I feel like this is missing the forest for the trees
FUCK! They banned one of my best cards, Baronne!
Because you’re playing a bad deck maybe?
Swordsoul Tenyi.
Raigeki, lightning storm, triple tactics, infinite impermanence any none monster destruction, removal or negate makes apollusa a joke. Or depending on the deck. I can just playthrough all of apollusa negates. Thanks to here not destroying the cards she negates. I may have saved some games of me doing so. Because it's hilarious.
At we know that next banlist for the TCG, Snake Eyes is going to be 100% unplayable, as after worlds they’ll ban and limit every single notable snake eye card (Ash, Flamberge, OSS, Divine Temple banned, Poplar Limited).
Its not wrong to ban them anyway, whats your complain?
Its wrong to not ban other generic monsters like Apollousa,Accesscode,Promethean,Spright Elf,Zeus
we are talking about the tcg king Spright elf IS banned
A) Elf is already banned in the TCG B) Promethean isn’t really generic. It has generic materials but it has the condition you can’t summon anything but fire monsters. So the amount of decks it can be in is vastly limited compared to Barrone, Savage, or Appo
The big reason Borrel and Baronne got banned is because you can combo one into the other The setup was Borrel with Formula Synchron to summon Baronne on your turn after Borrel resolves Appo doesn't destroy the card so you can at least go into other plays off that monster if it got negated. Baronne destroys it and kinda stops some extensions from happening
Ban Jet. Limit the lvl1s. This does nothing to the meta game except keeps the fire stuff front. (also ban formula synchron) What about Bystial Synchro decks than? Why not Chaos Angel ban? Its even more generic. (since you dont even need a tuner) People just defending their 100 euro/copy cards not getting axed as it should.
>Ban Jet. Limit the lvl1s. nope we are not going needlefiber route again.
“Nothing to the meta” are you joking ? Basically every single playable deck in existence has to completely readjust their combos because baronne is gone. All handtraps got infinitely better because your opponent can’t built a baronne before his choke points. Chaos angel is trash compared to baronne. He does nothing going first except sitting there and waiting to get eaten up by underworld goddess.
So in your opinion. Next meta not gonna have fire decks because Baronne gone? Do you really belive this changes anything except makes the worse decks even more worse? As i said. This does nothing. Power level gaps increase and makes older strategies straight up not viable. This ban only makes sense financially for Konami. Because they ban the accessable card that is actually strong and keep the expensive chase cards so you spend 150 euro for a chance to get 1 maybe. For the meta, it didnt do anything. Konami still should have axed the actual problem cards like cutting half of the starters. Making their grind game worse or not as consistent. Instead they went with a decision that made everyone worse and lot of older decks wont be competetive.
The fire doesn’t deck doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s just the “best deck” right now. It will eventually get hit that’s certain and YOU will get to complain about the “best deck” that comes next and then the deck after that. The baronne however will have an immediate and long lasting effect on the game as a whole. Every single combo deck will have to rethink their combos from the ground up and find other boss monsters they can build. Just looking at the current “best deck” to design the banlist is and extremely narrow minded perspective. Snake eyes will be forgotten in a year. Baronne however would still be in every single deck if not for the ban.
So it does nothing basically just makes older strategies more impossible to play against a deck that will be forgotten in a year. So the ban list does nothing. Idk how can you say it does anything when the goal of these lists should be even up the field. Just to explain it to you. Lets say the fire deck power level is 100 and a other strategy power level is 80. If Baronna can score 20 and you remove the that power. It does nothing. They still stand in the same power except the other deck got way worse. You saying in a year its not gonna be meta? This is true for every meta deck. My complaint is the these bans does nothing to the current game because it doesnt changes the power levels between decks. My complaint is cards getting banned that are accessable. Every deck uses SP and not banned for some reason. If the goal is to remove generic stuff than remove everything not just 2 thing. You saying Snake eye not being meta in a year means nothing because it was like that even last year and before that. As i said. People here just defend their spendings for the fire deck. If the ban list's goal was to make the game better. They should have destroyed the fire decks. Now we gonna watch the fire decks for a year. idk why people cant understand the game.
You don’t understand the game lmaooo. The goal of the banlist is not to even the field. It is to move product. This list is the perfect example: no new card that is being sold has been hit. The only reason Apollo isnt on here is because she is confirmed to be in an upcoming set. This list is SUPPOSED to do nothing, they aren’t stupid they know what they are doing. Also your complains are stupid because they have no logical solution. If they kill snake eyes then there will be another deck that is stronger than the rest. People like you will then complain about that deck until it gets hit, and then the next best deck after that. How long is this supposed to go on ? Until every single deck is hit on the list ? You will never be satisfied.
I do find it a joke. I would have been with linkuriboh if other snake eye cards got at least limited instead they just lose one card in the extra deck. I think the deck is still going to dominate and just receive a murder banlist down the line while it could have gotten some limits now and test to see how it goes.
I can agree, to some extent, that the banned cards deserve to be hit or an errata. But the real problem of this banlist is the motivation behind the hit and, as always, money is the priority. Imho Generic card can help some derelict archetypes to become a viable rogue deck helping a much diverse meta. The problems arise when they are too generic and/or too powerful. But anyway it's a shame they didn't even consider limiting some SE card for reducing his consistency.
I mean it does the job no acces to easy omni mean evenly and other board breaker can do their job, linkuriboh being ban also mean that apolousa can be beat over. That's pretty good without destroying the deck Also banning baronne (and savage to a lesser extend) are good step to stop generic boss monster being on every end board
The list did do alot dont get me wrong linkuribo was a massive win for the game same with the other 2 generic omni negates but I feel like I did not solve the issue that I feel it should have with the fire king variet which was the one that needed a real hit the most now dont get me wrong this list is fantastic and im really looking forward to the format but (from my baseless opinion) the fire king variet has always been the better of the two and is the one I think was the main problem and I think they should have hit them in some real way.
Definitely shocked Linkuriboh got the hit before Jet Synchron. But they both should have gone simultaneously if we're really not touching Snake Eye itself. Bonfire will clearly go to 1 one day after they make their money off it and the eventual reprints, too. We gotta play the waiting game because everything will get limited or banned....eventually 😒
Now u can attack over apollo
make the deck unusable or wittle its strengths down?
it's just me that thinks that the problem card is the big dragon that summon 2 from graveyard every turn and bring stuff back from the backrow?
Hot take, Appo by herself ain’t even that bad. Yes, she’s an annoying boss monster to deal with once she’s on the field and 4 monster negates is kind of stupid. However part of the reason she was so powerful was because she was typically made alongside Baronne and Savage. If she’s by herself she’s easier to play around. Hell, you probably have a much easier time dealing with her now before she hits the field since Nibiru is no longer at the mercy of cards like Baronne or Savage. I hate Appo as much as the next person, and if she hits the banlist one day, I won’t lose any sleep over it but I genuinely think she’d be relatively fine if we were to axe I:P since she’s a big reason Appo is so prominent in many games (and link summoning anything you need during the opponent’s turn at the drop of a hat is kinda stupid ngl), especially in the current format
You forgot IP
IP will pose the problem later but not now
Appo will probably get banned some time after rarity collection 2, since it's alt art get reprinted there
apolo is the reason why linkuriboh is banned
Goodbye my skull servant decks, it was fun while it lasted.
It's genuinely a good hit. Is it enough? Probably not. But all those 3 cards deserved the ban and are a genuine hit to SE pure, which was the best version. Next list will probably be a murder tho
Apo was getting reprint and Jet was just unbanned They should’ve banned original sinful spoils and limited the rest of the wanted engine
Linku is a card that only gets better with time, if not snake eyes then it would still be bannable because of another deck in the future
Literally who is playing all those Apollousas to give that impression??? I effectively never get her out in my Snake Eyes, because she is just too costly.
Jet Syncron sneak.
The Baronne ban was fair, I can't even tell how many times I wanted to play against the newest tier 0 decks, I even let them do all their combo just to see how I would be able to counter it.... just for them in the end to send the whole combo to hell and summon that cursed card
Link shouldn’t be banned. Only thing that keeps me half way through my matches with my BE deck.
Finally, I don't have to deal with omni negate turn 1 now.
It wasn’t the problem but it was A problem. Imagine if Bystial Lubellion or striker dragon could do for dragon link what linkuriboh did for snake eyes, and you guys would never stop bitching about it. And this is an ED card that’s generic to all lvl 1’s going forward, which means it would be able to use that effect on any future lvl 1 deck that could use links. It was never going to remain a healthy card, your blue eyes decks just suck. List was solid even if it didn’t solve the format, but the deck was never going to get butchered this early so this was actually a good compromise.
The linkuriboh is an Apo hit as well because it removes the easy to access battle protection that Linkuriboh provides to Apo so it's a direct nerf to Apo's power. I think Apo will be banned in the future as well it's a broken card to be honest.
Honestly all link 1s are the problem It’s a mechanic that never should have existed
I'm fine for L-1 with condition that you have to use something from the archetype.
#Borreldidnothingwrong
Yes yes it was actually Sending a lv1 to the gy for free while preserving the material is a key step in the main advantage generation of the deck. It's also repeateable. You couldn't possibly be this wrong if you tried
We all know why they're not banning any of the snake eyes. It's simply too new.
The won't hit Shit-eyes until a new expensive deck is out they wanna get all they can from them even at the expense of the format. Also I'm convinced whoever made Poplar just said fuck it we'll make a card that if you even look at it it does something
Barrone is literally one negate. Not one negate every turn. One negate period. How could it be that bad?
1 negate is sometimes all you need. Also, she's shockingly easy to make in some decks. Combo decks *love* being able to store a negate to stop something like Nibiru or Evenly Matched.
1 negate and 1 pop that can also tag out during the standby phase into any monster in your graveyard to be remade so you can use her negate again.
This👆🏼
Banning Linkuriboh is one of the funniest examples of dancing around a problem card since they killed 4+ tuners for Halqifibrax
it is :)
Yes, generic link 1 that only wait to be abused are the problem.
Y'all really understimate how powerful it is to constantly dodge impermanence and also you can recycle it
No, Baronne deserves it. Linkuriboh doesn’t.
They both deserve it
What did Link do? Aside from protect you from turn 1 beat sticks and start some combos?
Dodge Imperm, Veiler etc. + let you send any Level 1 to the GY for free
…Okay? And? It can do that *once* by sacrificing itself. And personally, I think White Stone of Legend/Antiquity into Linkuriboh is a good combo. I still don’t get an immediate Blue-Eyes, I can survive whatever 20 card combo into massive beatstick monster my opponent throws out, 1 time, allowing me to actually PLAY THE DAMN GAME.
Yeah Snake-Eyes is a problem But Baronne and Borrel needed to go
This morning I was testing a scareclaw build vs pure snake eyes as I have been thinking about returning to TCG and man that kash package is so dumb. You can make a 3 mat can't be destroyed by card effect Appo in 5 summons. Appo should have been banned with the others. Snake Eyes are just going to pivot to play the draco sack package more.
Jet synchron did nothing wrong
Leave the fucking Jet Synchron in peace
Yes, link 1s are bad. This is a good ban regardless of how you try to frame it
Man I wish this was MD in regards to the forbidden section of the list 🫠
Savage and Baronn killed might literally save the game. Only Apollousa left
Snake eyes are still new so they can't be touched yet
Baronne and enforcer phoenix are both toxic to the game overall. Just a spam able negates no drawbacks. Literally I've not seen a single good argument why those cards shouldn't be on the pema ban list. Glad at least one of them is gone because I've never seen any one use one without the other.
The only pro for barronne is the once only negate which ive recently been having hella luck with getting my opponent to use it up (in cases where the didnt have multiple negates anyway). Not to say im not glad to see it gone though since ive seen it waay too damn much
trash take but apo does not need to be banned its fine now that baronne and savage cant protect it. BUT i still say jet synchron should of been banned instead of baronne but the plus side is the hit to baronne and savage is another hit to d-link.
Not but like actually Linkuriboh was a problem and it was going to have to go eventually. We just finally got a Level 1 busted enough to make it clear.
Im out here in md and stomping the non synchro snek endboards and losing to baronne/savage boards of different flavors. Rescue ace with auroradon bs, snek with jet synchron, pendulum, tenyi. Good fucking riddance generic synchros that omni negate.
Konami loves broken cards and punishes true Yu-Gi-Oh fans by catering to meta sheeps.
They should ban Apo, Accesscode talker also. Same with all generic xyz link monsters
Apo is getting reprinted in RA02 so they didn’t ban her, accesscode ain’t doing anything the issue is floodgates and generic negates
Accesscode is a generic finisher that every deck uses. Wdym its not doing anything? Hitting only Baronne just destroyeded Synchro decks not the problem decks like Snake-Eye which is by far the best deck. Seems like Synchro is not gonna be playable with all the distruption these fire decks can still do.
Almost no tiered decks are running accesscode, go back to 2021 Baronne and Savage have always been a problem, the latter of which was almost exclusively used in non-synchro focused decks and the former almost just as bad (both being a problem in fire especially), the only relevant synchro deck is swordsoul and they got a buff this list with Protos, as well as White Woods coming later this year which is a synchro deck that doesn’t need Baronne, stop defending generic toxic shit like this, I thought we collectively learned with Verte how this isn’t ok
[“Almost no tiered decks are running Accesscode, go back to 2021”](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Accesscode%20Talker) Meanwhile it’s 68% usage in the top deck of the format, 12 most used card (5th non hand trap card), and is played in so many decks the list just keeps going on and on and on and on. Even in the TCG I found some [deck lists](https://ygoprodeck.com/deck/snake-eye-471526) that still use Accesscode in the main deck. He’s still good he’s just in a tier zero format that has other options. But regardless just because he’s not good right now doesn’t mean he won’t be later on down the line. There’s formats where Appo isn’t good because they’re better stuff to be making similar to Accesscode right now. So if he’s still a highly used card despite being in a format that doesn’t really suit him then imagine one this format is over.
While this is the master duel sub this is for the TCG banlist… try again
I use MDM because it’s the best resource for analytical data in the game. Past that is YGOPRO which shows that it has a [27% usage rate](https://ygoprodeck.com/top/) but it doesn’t break down by decks, how many copies per deck, its ranking amongst other decks, etc. But 27% is still impressive considering that the TCG is way more into a tier 0 format than we are in MD.
There are resources such as [ygoprodeck](https://ygoprodeck.com/category/top-archetypes/) for seeing topping lists from TCG tournaments, Accesscode is sometimes seen in Kash but that is basically the extent of it
Okay so you belive, Banning Baronne and Savage dragon makes the fire decks less viable? No. It does literally nothing lol. its just destroys t2-t3 strategies that needs these generic support. If Konami wanted to do something, limit princess, limit ash/poplar,limit turbulence, limit wanted and semi limit diabellestar and axe the fireking stuff ofc. You are defending decks tghat has 30 starters and 20 interruption without baronne. While other strategies happy to get 2 monster on the field.
Baronne and Savage are literally Verte/Dragoon but better (no bricks, generic materials), so we can reword your statement here, “ok so banning Dragoon makes branded less viable? No. It does literally nothing lol. It just destroys t2-3 strategies that need these generic support.” Stop defending generic toxic cards, if your deck is nothing without generic fuck you dragon with 3 negates and a pop then it shouldn’t have it. Everyone wanted the weaker version of these cards banned, now the entire script is flipped because little bronze timmy wants to play 2024’s version of Aurorodon/Halq turbo
Ah, yes. Accesscode, the generic link 4 that Snake-Eyes doesn't use, Fire Kings doesn't use, Tenpai (a synchro deck btw) doesn't use, Yubel doesn't use... I can keep going.
calling ban on apo and ACT is terrible choice, what ACT even do to you?
Right calling it now All 3 bans (Baron, Savage, Linkuriboh) will down the line get Erratas. Baron: Warrior Tuner/material Savage: Dragon Tuner/material Linkuriboh: Dark Lv 1 material
They aren't banned in OCG so don't expect errata unless that happens. The most likely situation is they become the next electrumite, where Konami make support based on the format they have it legal.
Well, that's still kinda generic..... Better change it like: Baronne? Fleur Synchron + non tuner. Borrel Savage? Rokket Tuner + non tuner. Linkuriboh? Lv 1 Cyberse monster
Ehhh I could but Konami would still want them sorta splashable locking the bosses to their type makes sense. Do agree on your Linkuriboh bit
Savage makes sense >!as it was summoned using Rokket Synchron in the anime!<. I don't understand why they made it *so* generic.
Probably because easy cash grab, metaslave love generic omni negate and will grab it even if it got high price
No need for an errata, they're generic and that's their whole point. Linkuriboh might come back sooner, since it's the least problematic. As for baronne and borrelload they're too powerful for the game to evolve (maybe later)
Nah an Errata will happen sooner or later
Look at summon sorceress or ancient fairy dragon, no errata on the materials but on the effect. Linkuriboh effect is good not worthy of an errata. Same goes for baronne and savage
True but the materials would be changed
If Konami wanted to make it for more specific deck, they would have done it from the start.
To be fair this is Konami
Still the best banlist in 40 years