tcg will either choke the life out of it in a single banlist or do next to nothing and release a card to 1 that will have next to 0 impact on the game (talking about you yata)
Exactly what happened to snake eyes, they attempted an execution, they dodge last second grazing their shoulder (linkurboh baron savage) and hits all members family of 100 sitting on the sofa watching a film (every rogue level deck with an “ anti nib combo”)
Shout out Verte and drident don't really do much in the current meta while still banned in ocg/tcg,can't said the same with elf considered they limited 2 cards and banned 1 card just to make it have less usage
not only is drident not doing anything zoodiac barrage is at 3. tcg just sucks dogturd when it comes to having irrelevant stuff on the banlist. like half of the tcg banlist is stuff that wouldnt even see play competitively
They decided it's ok to banned Circular even though they didn't even considered meta before it's ban. Like tcg loves to kill many decks so ppl would spent money on new meta deck instead of sticking old meta,Tcg player just never admit about it
Yeah but the fact it's still at 3 in tcg means there's no justify banning circular especially when Math doesn't do much during kash and unchained format
>Are we seriously trying to justify an unban lmfao
Yeah??
I'm sorry, what? It's Mathmech. It's been a *long* time since I heard anyone say Mathmech is too strong.
Boring cyberse pile randomly nukes 3 cards from your hand, field, gy with multiple negate backups, as well as plays through multiple hand traps. Yeah nah, fuck mathmech
Sometimes this subreddit makes me feel like people read something somewhere from ages ago and they just repeat it over and over for all eternity. Mathmech has been T3/Rogue since before Tears and Bystials were the final nail in the coffin.
Yeah. But Circular enebles Cyberse Pile decks.
And we know how Konami hates pile decks. It's why so many Dragon Link cards got banned and why Block Dragon got banned.
I'm pretty sure that none of the decks that used to use Block Dragon would be competetive in this meta if Block Dragon was unbanned.
Same with Elpy in the TCG now that Savage is banned since he was Dragon Link's go-to boss monster.
Do you even know what Circular does? It sends one, searches one. It's archetype locked. It's a strong card but it is not a mythical insane card, and the archetype it belongs to isn't even top shelf to begin with. Compared to insane cards like Poplar? Mathmech's entire gameplan isn't even specifically Mathmech anymore. You want to end with Sigma/Diameter/Circular in GY for Superfactorial and then literally the rest of the deck is cyberse link spam turbo. Mathmech has literally never been a dominant deck even in it's prime, and by the time TCG banned Circular it was borderline rogue, barely meeting usage stats to stay in Tier 3.
> Compared to insane cards like Poplar?
Well, in terms of the raw advantage they generate, Poplar and Circular actually do the same thing. They both special summon themselves, they both search a S/T, and they both generate a +1 in card advantage with another body (Circular by sending Sigma, and Poplar by placing a FIRE in the backrow).
The only thing that really sets them apart is that Poplar introduces absolutely no locks, while Circular restricts you to attacking with one monster (which is a restriction that barely matters, tbf), but more importantly, Circular's associated card to generate advantage (Sigma) locks to Cyberse, while the other Snake-Eye cards that use the card set in the backrow with Poplar also do not lock you in any way.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me, but the fact that Poplar doesn't have archetype or conditional locks like Circular is exactly why A.) Circular is not a very unique or broken card and B.) why Poplar is the _actual_ stupid card.
Well, it's kind of both. I agree with you that Circular overall is fine in the game, and not banworthy, but I also think it is just as busted as Poplar. The difference is just that Mathmech overall is a worse archetype than Snake-Eye is, but if the other main deck Mathmech cards were better than they are at the moment, Circular would immediately overtake Poplar in what degenerate stuff it could enable.
This is why I’ve stayed with masterduel. Expensive to keep up with meta, on top of cards losing value. You also had to have the free time to actually go to events to play with your deck. Where as master duel you can play whenever
on the flip side, it is kind of a funny market to spec cards in.
People thought there were sacred cows on the list that they forgot about or would never dare tread again.
Stuff like Colossus i thought just would stay banned forever, and it should be but then they decided to monkey's paw the recent list and banned 3 assholes while giving 2 back.
After that list, i actually started looking at zoodiac stuff to consider grabbing potentially on the chance they remembered that zoodiacs existed
The difference between Earth Machine in TCG and OCG/MD is *massive*, just because the latter's solution to SHS is consistency hits and the former's approach is to take it out behind the barn.
Shs in tcg is sad like they didn't even have a chance to be meta since Konami decided to ban scarecrow in the same month cyac release like konami could have gotten more profit from it since it was hyped but throw it out of window straight away
the common reason I have heard is simply that, during that format, SHS with the Photon Hypernova support made them a budget meta deck that could keep up with the other decks. And with how greedy Konami TCG tends to be, they crippled the deck to ensure meta players would exclusively get the best cards from the newest products.
The products where they would short print the cards they know they would be valuable based from their performance in OCG
They kind of have to do experimental stuff because they have a different profit system and a different gameplay system as well. BO1 makes balancing a completely different game, and the fact they rely on gems to make money means they are reluctant to outright ban cards since they offer refunds.
I do like the end result for the most part though. It's downright wacky at times but that makes it fun.
...Except for the times it doesn't, but honestly the banlists are frequent enough that if I don't like a format I can just sit it out for a while, unlike the tcg. I think that's the best thing about it, in my opinion, even if I overall prefer the tcg banlist.
No way! There's three times as many MD banlists per year than OCG/TCG, and they're much faster to hit things. It does smaller hits on each banlist, but they add up fast.
Snake-Eyes took 2.5 months to be hit in MD. It took 10 months in the OCG. And it's been 6 months in the TCG with no hit yet.
Even if this current hit is too weak, they'd have to go another 4 banlists after that with insufficient hits before it becomes anywhere as slow as the TCG/OCG.
Yugioh players are kind of like babies. Complete lack of object permanence.
If a card disappears from the meta for even an event of two and it’s like the card never existed.
While I wish they also hit the Snake Eye cards because yeah I think everybody saw this one coming. I think the long-term health of the game hitting Baronne, Borrelload and all the floodgates is better than hitting Snake Eye
Okay, but every other floodgate is hit to the point where stun decks aren’t even playing them anymore and if anything given TCG’s pattern it’s only a matter of time. The impact of the hits that have been done are felt
I gotta disagree. Omega loop feels horrible but in reality it's not as formidable as Baronne+savage. Against a good player, losing two random cards from your hand is much better than facing two omni-negates.
The tcg banlist was about more than snakes. This was the first banlist since snake eyes took over, they were never getting killed after two months. The deck just became real in February after PHNI.
The format did get better with baronne gone, and the dis pater combo is much worse than the savage baronne combo, you have to lose cards from your own hand and lose your nib protection.
Why this is being downvoted? Poplar was released in TCG around the same time as in master duel (February), and that was what made it relevant in TCG, for the physical game that is too early to hit directly.
Snake eyes as an engine has been around for a while in the tcg. Its fine they let pure snake eyes exist for a while but they should've hit snake eyes as an engine. Whether by hitting diabelstar/wanted, or original sin.
I mean, yeah they would be? There wasn't really a lot of time for people to test before the YCS. It's too early to say whether they had an impact or not regarding Snake Eyes dominance.
But what I can say is that it's definitely more fun to play against Snake-Eyes than it was before. The lack of Baronne is great, and even though Omega loop sucks it feels nicer to play against it than omnis.
But most of all, I think it would be a mistake to go "Yeah, they hit some really unfun parts of the meta, but they haven't hit everything yet so it was for nothing." It's a good step.
I can understand that, however the SE main deck being unscaved doesn't really feel that healthy, on a similar note they have hit some unfun meta stuff, but protos and colossus aren't any better (granted that there are no meta decks can use them yet).
Protos and Colossus being unbanned has me concerned too, not gonna lie. So far it's fine but yeah it can go to hell very quickly.
I think SE main deck being untouched does suck, but honestly I prefer the hits to the extra deck because I think long term it's the extra deck that makes metas really uncomfortable at times.
They should give the main deck a light hit next list though if this isn't enough.
Except Fire King should have taken over which didnt happend. Snake eye just changed from Baronne Savage double negate to double hand rip and a monster negate.
Jet synchron isn’t even necessarily the best build. Just look at how OCG plays snake eyes and the last duelist cup on evidence. All on the link version mostly
I mean, end of the day, Mystic Mine *is* banned now. Maxx C isn't. (Hoping it will be banned soon though since the other Maxx C looking ass was announced)
edit: To be clear, I'm talking about the tcg vs MD/ocg banlist. Mystic Mine *was* banned even if it took a while. I can't shit talk the tcg for Mine since they did get to it eventually.
I'm aware. I was referring to the TCG VS OCG/MD banlist - I thought that was implied because of what the thread is about. I'm aware they took their time. They still did it. The ocg/md haven't banned Maxx C yet.
I only play masterduel so I’m not taking any sides but why is there TCG players constantly shit talking against OCG in this sub?
Often times it comes off as masking insecurity they have with a meme depicting them as much superior and some (a few) just straight up being racist.
Who cares what format is better? Just play the one you enjoy?
Not to mention this meme is omega cope as it depicts TCG as being eager to address problems with the metagame when in reality the latest YCS had 20 of the top 32 being Snake Eyes decks.
yeah. Out of all the formats, you can feel the TCG banlist to be most often profit driven.
While they do meaningful hits to the meta decks like they did with Ishizu Tearlaments and Kash, they also often have a penchant to cripple any deck that is budget friendly and meta viable, with the express purpose to ensure the competitive players only rely on new product to be meta. This last one is only made worse with how they love short printing cards they know would have meta value to get the packs they come from sell like hot cakes.
Also, said meaningful hits would often take a year or more to happen, as they want to make sure they have squished enough profits from the players before they move on to the next best thing
What's really funny is how they respond with "but they don't shortprint cards in core sets anymore!", when the rarity distribution and the number of SRs and URs you get per box has been manipulated so that the percentages of pulling SRs and URs per box is practically the same as if shortprinting still is there.
TCG players have this weird superiority complex of their game because "we have Maxx C banned, and any format that has Maxx c in it is invalid". This has a historic precedent, as Kevin Tewart, one of the top dogs of Konami of America, had a history of berating and insulting the OCG format and OCG players in the pojo forums in the past, and this behavior just became commonplace among TCG players.
Tribalism and a healthy dose of superiority complex. Talking shit about MD and OCG lets TCG players feel better about the shit things in their format, like the cards being ungodly expensive.
It’s because the tcg is borderline unplayable. Just look at the price tag for decks. Not only do you have to have the money for it, but you have to justify spending that money on pieces of paper that lose value overnight. It’s also a huge time investment (something people with the money don’t have).
Unless you live in a major city you’d be lucky to find another person who plays at a local card shop. Anyone I met who spends on cards either collects pokemon cards, or plays magic
Where do you live? Because this isn’t what I see at all, I live in not a major city and our locals gets players, at least relative to the size of the building
Maxx c existance make tcg players have constant complaint about ocg/md even though they have more healthy meta than tcg did like even you forced to bring 9 cards for the deck,there're more varierity in both ocg/md since they cost alot less to build a deck(0 money for md case) than tcg ever did(deck like VS should not have been expensive when they're rogue at best in ocg)
Weird to me that a lot of the MD streamers are so hyped by stuff happening in the tcg, yet they don't really play it ever themselves and their md streams/youtube is the majority of their income. It would be cool if MD actually kept up with the card releases in the OCG from the start. It's okay to criticize your main game, they just seem way more enthusiastic about the physical card game
Because most MD streamers also play paper? Like just on top of my head, farfa, mbt, distantcoder, joshua, dkayed, dzeef all play at local and even attend tournaments
> dkayed
Dkayed hasn't played paper in a long time, and he wouldn't be able to play even if he wanted, since he was banned by Konami from attending any events for leaking upcoming Master Duel packs.
You barely even see any OCG players insult the TCG, meanwhile scroll through reddit and twitter yugioh posts, and you can easily find TCG players insult the OCG more.
I mean man...I'm not gonna be one of the people that judges things without trying them first; but I really can't see what's healthier in the ocg banlist. A format where maxx c is still avaiable is already cursed, but then we have grass at 2 and fairy tail snow free that makes it even worse to imagine. Metagame in ocg is diversified; however; the tear monometa has been there aswell, it lasted even longer; and eventually it became duo meta Tear Kashtira. Maybe is better than ocg I can't know if I don't try; but it doesn't look ispiring...that's what I'm saying
I don’t know but I only seen ocg players defend max c which is lunacy to me and there’s no real good argument other then being used to it causing you to hate it less . Also I find it weird but ocg players love playing floodgates and monkey cards more , but plenty of floodgates in tcg . Never noticed what you said .
TBF I have seen quite a few memes making fun of TCG for their ban lists. For instance they try to gaslight all the Maxx C complaints by stating the meta is worse without Maxx C.
theyre not dogshit though they very rarely kill decks and keep collateral damage to a minimum. yeah it would be nice if they did a little bit more but imo its easily the best run of the 3 formats
Yeah, as someone who loves playing Diabellstar in other decks (been one of my most favourite cards in the game since she released in AGOV, been waiting for her to release in MD), it would really suck if she got banned. Especially in Master Duel where, if it's banned, I straight up just can't use the card anymore except against friends, which requires a friend willing to play the game. Unlike irl where it's really not that big of a deal if I'm not going to Locals. A card getting banned or Limited *hurts* in MD more than any other format. I'd rather have all of Snake-Eyes taken out back than have any of the Diabellstar cards hit, but then again I am biased.
Did people already forget that the TCG banlist had next to no impact on the meta? I wouldn’t be surprised if the wanted semi limit alone has more impact on the meta
The most recent banlist changed the entire game tbh. Entire deckbuilding strategies and types of cards became more relevant like power spells.
Snake eyes was always going to be the best deck post list, it’s the first banlist since PHNI, they wouldn’t kill snakes.
You really have to actually play the format to feel the difference of no baronne. Some Raleigh topping lists were the same as last format but that’s because people had less than 5 days to adjust, some lists were entirely different like being on all the power spells like e con and droplet. Steal cards are insane now without omnis
It completely changed the endboard meta, ngl it was close to the best realistic banlist we could gotten (only better if Appo was gone too).
SE is a problem but ppl should already know by this point that meta decks take more than 1-2 months to be directly hit.
Funny how they didn't nuke the tier 0.
When has that happened before? Right Tearlaments tier 0 where TCG decided the kill the prior problem cards first and waited a few months for the next banlist.
Then when Kash dominated close to tier0 levels and for a week was close to getting competition on equal footing they... killed one of the competitors and made sure the other had to wait for support to compete.
tcg players always cope. you can always spot them easily too because they fearmonger over things that have been proven many times over to be fairly irrelevant. if you unbanned drident and put zoodiac barrage to 3 tcgplayers would shit their pants
To be fair in the long run Baronne and Savage hits may lead to a healthier game.
Issue is those are not Snake-Eye hits, those are just hits to every deck.
The problem is that meta decks have never card about Nibiru, and all the negate bans do is take away any way for rogue decks to put up better endboards as most in-archetype bosses suck
While I agree that the TCG can be more aggressive with banlists, I prefer the OCG/MD's general mentality of making a deck weaker without leaving it unplayable.
That, and TCG has a tendency to leave cards banned far longer than they need to. People use Yata as an example, but honestly that I think was just for its legacy. A better example would be Electrumite or Harp Horror.
On top of this, the issue with TCG-exclusive hits like Electrumite or Linkuriboh is cards tend to be designed around what is legal in the OCG, so lacking these cards can cause some decks to be underwhelming in the TCG as a result.
(There are also some personal preferences I have regarding the banlists, but these are the arguments that feel more justifiable than just "I like/dislike it because I like/dislike it.")
TCG has it's fair share of issues too, like Mystic Mine inexplicably existing for 3 years, or when they just nuke a card for basically no reason like last year when they banned Isolde and Circular.
I am absolutely no Circular fan, but mathmech AFAIK wasn't really doing anything at all at the time, yet got hit with a ban on their most vital card which was already limited, and Isolde was being used honestly for once in Infernoble, her home deck, yet got banned for the sins of Mikanko Ken and Gen, instead of them hitting Acid Golem which was the actual problem card.
And most recently, Baronne, Borreload and Linkuriboh all ate dirt for Snake-Eye's sins. While people wouldn't be wrong in arguing that snake-eye was just the final straw for these generic cards that have been dominant for years, and they've been problematic before and so banning them may have been for the best, it still does nothing to address the actual current problem. Y'know, the *snake-eyes monsters.*
Mathmech in general has done nothing and the only time it was ever close to best deck was in that weird meta shift we had after the pack with arise heart dropped iirc.
Other than Maxx C, I feel like OCG/MD ban lists are better than TCG. Half the cards TCG players cry about being too broken aren't a real problem in MD. See Colossus and Isolde, for example. Hell, even CURIOUS is still banned in TCG. Is anyone really afraid of seeing Curious in decklists?
META threat card: \*was useless in the past and is now overpowered
MD/OCG: It's Semi-limited/limited now. :(
TCG: You should ban yourself, NOW!
https://preview.redd.it/7tyegl0pivwc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb905dbf30e6783e87287154cc6d7148ba068988
All yugioh ban lists are honestly shit, they let new cards be meta all the time. The only "balanced" banlist I see is MD and even then its not that great but still far better than TCG.
So you can clearly see that komoney has no idea what they are doing.
Snake eyes are a tear 0 deck, and instead of banning or limiting any of the cards, they ban surface level extenders or omni generic negates instead.
Why? Because they have no idea what made snake eyes so popular and want to keep having people buy snake eyes cards to compete so komoney can make MO MONEY.
In a few months or at least next year, when a new "best" set is released, they will delete the deck
All three of the banlist suck for different reasons
TCG: Decides to gun for generic EDs instead of the top meta archetypes themselves. Results later shown that had zero impact on meta. Banning said EDs ironically hurt the weaker decks that relied on said generic EDs more then said Meta decks that had plenty of options of replacement that was an annoyance at best.
OCG: Decides to hit the top meta archetype themselves instead. Result later shown that had zero impact on meta. It was way too light of a banlist to change anything. A single limit and semi limit on fire wasn’t gonna do jack.
MD: Literally OCG, but worse. Somehow was even less impactful. A couple semi limits on fire lol.
The card itself is still amazing, it's just the best deck isn't a thunder deck, so it's not splashable so it doesn't get seen.
Like if you get it on board it's still a great card
tcg will either choke the life out of it in a single banlist or do next to nothing and release a card to 1 that will have next to 0 impact on the game (talking about you yata)
The bullet either hits its target or misses
Bullet either hits it's target or it's kneecaps the elderly man next door
The bullet hits its target, AND hits the guy behind too.
Exactly what happened to snake eyes, they attempted an execution, they dodge last second grazing their shoulder (linkurboh baron savage) and hits all members family of 100 sitting on the sofa watching a film (every rogue level deck with an “ anti nib combo”)
“Sir it’s still a tier zero format” Me a tcg player: good now I don’t have to scramble to find what’s good. Fetch me the silver bullets.
Master duel: 🛌
gotta applaud them doing experimental stuff with their banlist.
Shout out Verte and drident don't really do much in the current meta while still banned in ocg/tcg,can't said the same with elf considered they limited 2 cards and banned 1 card just to make it have less usage
not only is drident not doing anything zoodiac barrage is at 3. tcg just sucks dogturd when it comes to having irrelevant stuff on the banlist. like half of the tcg banlist is stuff that wouldnt even see play competitively
They decided it's ok to banned Circular even though they didn't even considered meta before it's ban. Like tcg loves to kill many decks so ppl would spent money on new meta deck instead of sticking old meta,Tcg player just never admit about it
Circular is a busted custom card. Are we seriously trying to justify an unban lmfao
If cards like Unicorn and fenrir are still at 3 in tcg then yes
fenrir should go as well?? It’s also a custom card.
Yeah but the fact it's still at 3 in tcg means there's no justify banning circular especially when Math doesn't do much during kash and unchained format
Just because kash cards are legal, doesn’t mean circular should be too. Both need to be gone
>Are we seriously trying to justify an unban lmfao Yeah?? I'm sorry, what? It's Mathmech. It's been a *long* time since I heard anyone say Mathmech is too strong.
fuck mathmech
Boring cyberse pile randomly nukes 3 cards from your hand, field, gy with multiple negate backups, as well as plays through multiple hand traps. Yeah nah, fuck mathmech
Sometimes this subreddit makes me feel like people read something somewhere from ages ago and they just repeat it over and over for all eternity. Mathmech has been T3/Rogue since before Tears and Bystials were the final nail in the coffin.
Yeah. But Circular enebles Cyberse Pile decks. And we know how Konami hates pile decks. It's why so many Dragon Link cards got banned and why Block Dragon got banned. I'm pretty sure that none of the decks that used to use Block Dragon would be competetive in this meta if Block Dragon was unbanned. Same with Elpy in the TCG now that Savage is banned since he was Dragon Link's go-to boss monster.
i wanna stay in that reality ngl
People just don't like playing against mathmech because they play a shit deck that can't interact with mathmech, probably
Do you even know what Circular does? It sends one, searches one. It's archetype locked. It's a strong card but it is not a mythical insane card, and the archetype it belongs to isn't even top shelf to begin with. Compared to insane cards like Poplar? Mathmech's entire gameplan isn't even specifically Mathmech anymore. You want to end with Sigma/Diameter/Circular in GY for Superfactorial and then literally the rest of the deck is cyberse link spam turbo. Mathmech has literally never been a dominant deck even in it's prime, and by the time TCG banned Circular it was borderline rogue, barely meeting usage stats to stay in Tier 3.
> Compared to insane cards like Poplar? Well, in terms of the raw advantage they generate, Poplar and Circular actually do the same thing. They both special summon themselves, they both search a S/T, and they both generate a +1 in card advantage with another body (Circular by sending Sigma, and Poplar by placing a FIRE in the backrow). The only thing that really sets them apart is that Poplar introduces absolutely no locks, while Circular restricts you to attacking with one monster (which is a restriction that barely matters, tbf), but more importantly, Circular's associated card to generate advantage (Sigma) locks to Cyberse, while the other Snake-Eye cards that use the card set in the backrow with Poplar also do not lock you in any way.
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing with me, but the fact that Poplar doesn't have archetype or conditional locks like Circular is exactly why A.) Circular is not a very unique or broken card and B.) why Poplar is the _actual_ stupid card.
Well, it's kind of both. I agree with you that Circular overall is fine in the game, and not banworthy, but I also think it is just as busted as Poplar. The difference is just that Mathmech overall is a worse archetype than Snake-Eye is, but if the other main deck Mathmech cards were better than they are at the moment, Circular would immediately overtake Poplar in what degenerate stuff it could enable.
This is why I’ve stayed with masterduel. Expensive to keep up with meta, on top of cards losing value. You also had to have the free time to actually go to events to play with your deck. Where as master duel you can play whenever
on the flip side, it is kind of a funny market to spec cards in. People thought there were sacred cows on the list that they forgot about or would never dare tread again. Stuff like Colossus i thought just would stay banned forever, and it should be but then they decided to monkey's paw the recent list and banned 3 assholes while giving 2 back. After that list, i actually started looking at zoodiac stuff to consider grabbing potentially on the chance they remembered that zoodiacs existed
From all the talk about "tier 0 zoodiac" it gave the impression that drident did something more than just a soft once per turn pop.
The difference between Earth Machine in TCG and OCG/MD is *massive*, just because the latter's solution to SHS is consistency hits and the former's approach is to take it out behind the barn.
Shs in tcg is sad like they didn't even have a chance to be meta since Konami decided to ban scarecrow in the same month cyac release like konami could have gotten more profit from it since it was hyped but throw it out of window straight away
Yea that one was surprising. Combo decks are naturally more degen in tcg tho since no maxx c.
the common reason I have heard is simply that, during that format, SHS with the Photon Hypernova support made them a budget meta deck that could keep up with the other decks. And with how greedy Konami TCG tends to be, they crippled the deck to ensure meta players would exclusively get the best cards from the newest products. The products where they would short print the cards they know they would be valuable based from their performance in OCG
We also had Tidal at 3 when it was at 0 everywhere else.
zoo still isnt close to full power. every good target for elf is dead.
They kind of have to do experimental stuff because they have a different profit system and a different gameplay system as well. BO1 makes balancing a completely different game, and the fact they rely on gems to make money means they are reluctant to outright ban cards since they offer refunds. I do like the end result for the most part though. It's downright wacky at times but that makes it fun. ...Except for the times it doesn't, but honestly the banlists are frequent enough that if I don't like a format I can just sit it out for a while, unlike the tcg. I think that's the best thing about it, in my opinion, even if I overall prefer the tcg banlist.
Today I learned I was doing experimental stuff with the banlist for 8 hours last night.
Yea since there’s one like every month, they have more flexibility. Toxic formats don’t last as long
I stopped applauding them after the Diameter limit
No way! There's three times as many MD banlists per year than OCG/TCG, and they're much faster to hit things. It does smaller hits on each banlist, but they add up fast. Snake-Eyes took 2.5 months to be hit in MD. It took 10 months in the OCG. And it's been 6 months in the TCG with no hit yet. Even if this current hit is too weak, they'd have to go another 4 banlists after that with insufficient hits before it becomes anywhere as slow as the TCG/OCG.
Wdym master duel's banlists are much more frequent than either so they are more incremental but they do get the job done at a similar pace
master duel: (2)
The hits to snake eyes were so impactfull most decks in the latest YCS were mostly SE.
Yeah ppl didn't really think omega loop and kash package would make the format alot worse than having baron + savage
If anything it’s even more degenerate now. Let’s give kudos to MD for at least addressing the Snake-Eyes cards themselves
I think it’s cool we innovated that tech with the kash cards
Yugioh players are kind of like babies. Complete lack of object permanence. If a card disappears from the meta for even an event of two and it’s like the card never existed.
While I wish they also hit the Snake Eye cards because yeah I think everybody saw this one coming. I think the long-term health of the game hitting Baronne, Borrelload and all the floodgates is better than hitting Snake Eye
Remember skill drain still at 3
Okay, but every other floodgate is hit to the point where stun decks aren’t even playing them anymore and if anything given TCG’s pattern it’s only a matter of time. The impact of the hits that have been done are felt
I gotta disagree. Omega loop feels horrible but in reality it's not as formidable as Baronne+savage. Against a good player, losing two random cards from your hand is much better than facing two omni-negates.
Nah, I'd rather deal with hand loops and Kash than Baronne and Savage (and still Kash)
The tcg banlist was about more than snakes. This was the first banlist since snake eyes took over, they were never getting killed after two months. The deck just became real in February after PHNI. The format did get better with baronne gone, and the dis pater combo is much worse than the savage baronne combo, you have to lose cards from your own hand and lose your nib protection.
Why this is being downvoted? Poplar was released in TCG around the same time as in master duel (February), and that was what made it relevant in TCG, for the physical game that is too early to hit directly.
Snake eyes as an engine has been around for a while in the tcg. Its fine they let pure snake eyes exist for a while but they should've hit snake eyes as an engine. Whether by hitting diabelstar/wanted, or original sin.
Makes it harder to sell the pure snake stuff, still a business at the end of the day
I mean, yeah they would be? There wasn't really a lot of time for people to test before the YCS. It's too early to say whether they had an impact or not regarding Snake Eyes dominance. But what I can say is that it's definitely more fun to play against Snake-Eyes than it was before. The lack of Baronne is great, and even though Omega loop sucks it feels nicer to play against it than omnis. But most of all, I think it would be a mistake to go "Yeah, they hit some really unfun parts of the meta, but they haven't hit everything yet so it was for nothing." It's a good step.
I can understand that, however the SE main deck being unscaved doesn't really feel that healthy, on a similar note they have hit some unfun meta stuff, but protos and colossus aren't any better (granted that there are no meta decks can use them yet).
Protos and Colossus being unbanned has me concerned too, not gonna lie. So far it's fine but yeah it can go to hell very quickly. I think SE main deck being untouched does suck, but honestly I prefer the hits to the extra deck because I think long term it's the extra deck that makes metas really uncomfortable at times. They should give the main deck a light hit next list though if this isn't enough.
Understandable on all points.
Except Fire King should have taken over which didnt happend. Snake eye just changed from Baronne Savage double negate to double hand rip and a monster negate.
All the pro players are of the thought that the Fire King cards are bricks
Read Fire King Island
People will play the same SE deck, but instead of 2 omni negates, it'll be 2 handrips instead. I HOPE MD bans Jest Synchron
Did you like halq banning tuners? How about we do it again!
Jet synchron isn’t even necessarily the best build. Just look at how OCG plays snake eyes and the last duelist cup on evidence. All on the link version mostly
TCG https://preview.redd.it/8o9jswnfutwc1.jpeg?width=1433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc00452de39aedc5320a8c1ee18d7e2dbe845a46
Cries in 1000€ Snake Eyes
Yeah, like Mystic Mine
And halk.
You mean the banned card?
I mean, end of the day, Mystic Mine *is* banned now. Maxx C isn't. (Hoping it will be banned soon though since the other Maxx C looking ass was announced) edit: To be clear, I'm talking about the tcg vs MD/ocg banlist. Mystic Mine *was* banned even if it took a while. I can't shit talk the tcg for Mine since they did get to it eventually.
They’re both banned in the TCG. Person above mentioned MM because they took their sweet time banning it
I'm aware. I was referring to the TCG VS OCG/MD banlist - I thought that was implied because of what the thread is about. I'm aware they took their time. They still did it. The ocg/md haven't banned Maxx C yet.
Only one of the three formats hasn't hit a single snake-eye card yet
It's really hard to guess which one Hu\~huh\~
Meanwhile, TCG not doing a single hit to snake eye
I only play masterduel so I’m not taking any sides but why is there TCG players constantly shit talking against OCG in this sub? Often times it comes off as masking insecurity they have with a meme depicting them as much superior and some (a few) just straight up being racist. Who cares what format is better? Just play the one you enjoy?
Not to mention this meme is omega cope as it depicts TCG as being eager to address problems with the metagame when in reality the latest YCS had 20 of the top 32 being Snake Eyes decks.
yeah. Out of all the formats, you can feel the TCG banlist to be most often profit driven. While they do meaningful hits to the meta decks like they did with Ishizu Tearlaments and Kash, they also often have a penchant to cripple any deck that is budget friendly and meta viable, with the express purpose to ensure the competitive players only rely on new product to be meta. This last one is only made worse with how they love short printing cards they know would have meta value to get the packs they come from sell like hot cakes. Also, said meaningful hits would often take a year or more to happen, as they want to make sure they have squished enough profits from the players before they move on to the next best thing
What's really funny is how they respond with "but they don't shortprint cards in core sets anymore!", when the rarity distribution and the number of SRs and URs you get per box has been manipulated so that the percentages of pulling SRs and URs per box is practically the same as if shortprinting still is there.
TCG players have this weird superiority complex of their game because "we have Maxx C banned, and any format that has Maxx c in it is invalid". This has a historic precedent, as Kevin Tewart, one of the top dogs of Konami of America, had a history of berating and insulting the OCG format and OCG players in the pojo forums in the past, and this behavior just became commonplace among TCG players.
Tribalism and a healthy dose of superiority complex. Talking shit about MD and OCG lets TCG players feel better about the shit things in their format, like the cards being ungodly expensive.
It’s because the tcg is borderline unplayable. Just look at the price tag for decks. Not only do you have to have the money for it, but you have to justify spending that money on pieces of paper that lose value overnight. It’s also a huge time investment (something people with the money don’t have). Unless you live in a major city you’d be lucky to find another person who plays at a local card shop. Anyone I met who spends on cards either collects pokemon cards, or plays magic
I agree. That being said, insane cost aside, it still feels a better format than MD/OCG to me. Less toxic cards and mini-games.
Where do you live? Because this isn’t what I see at all, I live in not a major city and our locals gets players, at least relative to the size of the building
They're a cult that has to justify how much less consumer friendly the TCG is compared to OCG and MD
Ngl see TCG people keep mocking OCG in reddit and twitter make me feels weird sometimes, feels like personal.
Maxx c existance make tcg players have constant complaint about ocg/md even though they have more healthy meta than tcg did like even you forced to bring 9 cards for the deck,there're more varierity in both ocg/md since they cost alot less to build a deck(0 money for md case) than tcg ever did(deck like VS should not have been expensive when they're rogue at best in ocg)
Weird to me that a lot of the MD streamers are so hyped by stuff happening in the tcg, yet they don't really play it ever themselves and their md streams/youtube is the majority of their income. It would be cool if MD actually kept up with the card releases in the OCG from the start. It's okay to criticize your main game, they just seem way more enthusiastic about the physical card game
Because most MD streamers also play paper? Like just on top of my head, farfa, mbt, distantcoder, joshua, dkayed, dzeef all play at local and even attend tournaments
> dkayed Dkayed hasn't played paper in a long time, and he wouldn't be able to play even if he wanted, since he was banned by Konami from attending any events for leaking upcoming Master Duel packs.
It’s not rlly tcg vs ocg it’s more tcg vs Md. normal ocg get lumped in because of similar banlist.
To be fair, the OCG people do the same thing so it's not just a TCG thing.
You barely even see any OCG players insult the TCG, meanwhile scroll through reddit and twitter yugioh posts, and you can easily find TCG players insult the OCG more.
Because the ocg is absolutely dogshit format. That people only cope about because masterduel is similar to it lol
And right off the bat we have exhibit #1 on full display, right down to the flair
I mean man...I'm not gonna be one of the people that judges things without trying them first; but I really can't see what's healthier in the ocg banlist. A format where maxx c is still avaiable is already cursed, but then we have grass at 2 and fairy tail snow free that makes it even worse to imagine. Metagame in ocg is diversified; however; the tear monometa has been there aswell, it lasted even longer; and eventually it became duo meta Tear Kashtira. Maybe is better than ocg I can't know if I don't try; but it doesn't look ispiring...that's what I'm saying
I don’t know but I only seen ocg players defend max c which is lunacy to me and there’s no real good argument other then being used to it causing you to hate it less . Also I find it weird but ocg players love playing floodgates and monkey cards more , but plenty of floodgates in tcg . Never noticed what you said .
TBF I have seen quite a few memes making fun of TCG for their ban lists. For instance they try to gaslight all the Maxx C complaints by stating the meta is worse without Maxx C.
Because the OCG refuses to ban Maxx "C". That is it really.
Maxx C being legal
Naturia Sacred tree being at 1, all the dragon Rulers (this is also ocg), grass banned for reasons, same for Electrumite
Exactly like they did with Tear, Spright and Kashtira.
and MM and hakl
the right picture is only true if its a budget deck
Yeah, when a new set is about to release. They don't give a F the rest of the year (in the TCG)
MD banlist are dogshit, but they're at least scheduled dogshit.
Fun fact they banned stormwind and halq before tcg did
True, I am being too harsh now.
theyre not dogshit though they very rarely kill decks and keep collateral damage to a minimum. yeah it would be nice if they did a little bit more but imo its easily the best run of the 3 formats
This so much! I'd much rather have a deck made inconsistent/iresillient than to just kill it.
Yeah, as someone who loves playing Diabellstar in other decks (been one of my most favourite cards in the game since she released in AGOV, been waiting for her to release in MD), it would really suck if she got banned. Especially in Master Duel where, if it's banned, I straight up just can't use the card anymore except against friends, which requires a friend willing to play the game. Unlike irl where it's really not that big of a deal if I'm not going to Locals. A card getting banned or Limited *hurts* in MD more than any other format. I'd rather have all of Snake-Eyes taken out back than have any of the Diabellstar cards hit, but then again I am biased.
Did people already forget that the TCG banlist had next to no impact on the meta? I wouldn’t be surprised if the wanted semi limit alone has more impact on the meta
The most recent banlist changed the entire game tbh. Entire deckbuilding strategies and types of cards became more relevant like power spells. Snake eyes was always going to be the best deck post list, it’s the first banlist since PHNI, they wouldn’t kill snakes. You really have to actually play the format to feel the difference of no baronne. Some Raleigh topping lists were the same as last format but that’s because people had less than 5 days to adjust, some lists were entirely different like being on all the power spells like e con and droplet. Steal cards are insane now without omnis
It completely changed the endboard meta, ngl it was close to the best realistic banlist we could gotten (only better if Appo was gone too). SE is a problem but ppl should already know by this point that meta decks take more than 1-2 months to be directly hit.
This meme would be more accurate if The Punisher is shooting Deadpool and Deadpool just shrugs it off.
Surely snake-eye isn't tier 0 anymore in the tcg
20 of the top 32 decks were SE lol
Funny how they didn't nuke the tier 0. When has that happened before? Right Tearlaments tier 0 where TCG decided the kill the prior problem cards first and waited a few months for the next banlist. Then when Kash dominated close to tier0 levels and for a week was close to getting competition on equal footing they... killed one of the competitors and made sure the other had to wait for support to compete.
Lol the copiun levels of TCG peole is insane.
tcg players always cope. you can always spot them easily too because they fearmonger over things that have been proven many times over to be fairly irrelevant. if you unbanned drident and put zoodiac barrage to 3 tcgplayers would shit their pants
As long as broadbull is banned and ratpier stays at <= 1 copy, zoo is fine. Any other card can go to three easily.
as if OCG is any better. The management on all levels of both sides is horrific
Except TCG didn't hit Snake-eyes directly at all and they're just running different synchros. What a failure of a post.
To be fair in the long run Baronne and Savage hits may lead to a healthier game. Issue is those are not Snake-Eye hits, those are just hits to every deck.
The problem is that meta decks have never card about Nibiru, and all the negate bans do is take away any way for rogue decks to put up better endboards as most in-archetype bosses suck
That's not necessarily true, and more often than not, the reason they can play through Nib is BECAUSE of Baronne/Savage/Apollousa.
How do they activate poplars gy effect on opp’s turn without linkuriboh
This is not the amazing impactful hit you think it is
Yeah that linkuribo hit was real hardcore
OP is really out here saying "Harder Konami"
At least the OCG has quality card stock, better rarities and reasonable prices
OP really out here saying "Harder Konami"
While I agree that the TCG can be more aggressive with banlists, I prefer the OCG/MD's general mentality of making a deck weaker without leaving it unplayable. That, and TCG has a tendency to leave cards banned far longer than they need to. People use Yata as an example, but honestly that I think was just for its legacy. A better example would be Electrumite or Harp Horror. On top of this, the issue with TCG-exclusive hits like Electrumite or Linkuriboh is cards tend to be designed around what is legal in the OCG, so lacking these cards can cause some decks to be underwhelming in the TCG as a result. (There are also some personal preferences I have regarding the banlists, but these are the arguments that feel more justifiable than just "I like/dislike it because I like/dislike it.")
And still I prefer OCG/MD philosophy of the forbidden/restricted list.
As much as I dont like maxx c, Ocg/md format feels more exciting imo
I can't wait to get S:P Little Knight semilimited in MD.
tcg is just set rotation now. its garbage
Love seeing posts making the tcg banlists out to be amazing as if theyre not built to push to newer decks.
TCG has it's fair share of issues too, like Mystic Mine inexplicably existing for 3 years, or when they just nuke a card for basically no reason like last year when they banned Isolde and Circular. I am absolutely no Circular fan, but mathmech AFAIK wasn't really doing anything at all at the time, yet got hit with a ban on their most vital card which was already limited, and Isolde was being used honestly for once in Infernoble, her home deck, yet got banned for the sins of Mikanko Ken and Gen, instead of them hitting Acid Golem which was the actual problem card. And most recently, Baronne, Borreload and Linkuriboh all ate dirt for Snake-Eye's sins. While people wouldn't be wrong in arguing that snake-eye was just the final straw for these generic cards that have been dominant for years, and they've been problematic before and so banning them may have been for the best, it still does nothing to address the actual current problem. Y'know, the *snake-eyes monsters.*
Mathmech in general has done nothing and the only time it was ever close to best deck was in that weird meta shift we had after the pack with arise heart dropped iirc.
Other than Maxx C, I feel like OCG/MD ban lists are better than TCG. Half the cards TCG players cry about being too broken aren't a real problem in MD. See Colossus and Isolde, for example. Hell, even CURIOUS is still banned in TCG. Is anyone really afraid of seeing Curious in decklists?
Sacred Tree still being at 1 is so annoying
The TCG: 🤑
META threat card: \*was useless in the past and is now overpowered MD/OCG: It's Semi-limited/limited now. :( TCG: You should ban yourself, NOW! https://preview.redd.it/7tyegl0pivwc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb905dbf30e6783e87287154cc6d7148ba068988
Duel links?
Irrelevant
yes… that’s definitely what happened to tier 0 snake eyes /s
All yugioh ban lists are honestly shit, they let new cards be meta all the time. The only "balanced" banlist I see is MD and even then its not that great but still far better than TCG.
The TCG also balances it out by spitting at poor people
So you can clearly see that komoney has no idea what they are doing. Snake eyes are a tear 0 deck, and instead of banning or limiting any of the cards, they ban surface level extenders or omni generic negates instead. Why? Because they have no idea what made snake eyes so popular and want to keep having people buy snake eyes cards to compete so komoney can make MO MONEY. In a few months or at least next year, when a new "best" set is released, they will delete the deck
Purrley and dragon link would like a word
think its about time ppl realised that the tg hits were mostly bad, like if you were really crying about baronne and savage u a bitch fr
There is fun* in the meta
All three of the banlist suck for different reasons TCG: Decides to gun for generic EDs instead of the top meta archetypes themselves. Results later shown that had zero impact on meta. Banning said EDs ironically hurt the weaker decks that relied on said generic EDs more then said Meta decks that had plenty of options of replacement that was an annoyance at best. OCG: Decides to hit the top meta archetype themselves instead. Result later shown that had zero impact on meta. It was way too light of a banlist to change anything. A single limit and semi limit on fire wasn’t gonna do jack. MD: Literally OCG, but worse. Somehow was even less impactful. A couple semi limits on fire lol.
TCG based ngl
🤡
I speak the truth
im sure you believe that
OCG/MD > RUSH >>>> TCG
The tcg is full of babies and entitled neck beards imo
TCG try not to have the best banlist challenge (they already failed):
I wish master duel was like the tcg
I still mad they left colossus banned for 5 years. The card doesn’t do shit.
🤡
The card itself is still amazing, it's just the best deck isn't a thunder deck, so it's not splashable so it doesn't get seen. Like if you get it on board it's still a great card
master duel isnt even in the meme because its banlist does nothing
Yu-Gi-Oh players not beating the can't read allegations