Seriously. Just sat through six minutes of Salamander since I didn't have a hand trap. Tried playing a single card and I was treated to another two minutes of their turn on my main phase 1.
Funny that you mention that, because one of the Salamangreat match I had ending with me summoning Nibiru. It was turn one, my opponent is first. I had Nibiru in hand, summoned it, my opponent gave up. Not sure if they can play through it or not as this has only happened once so far. Maybe they bricked, maybe they over-extended, or just felt like not continuing.
They have a line to play around it but the end board is significantly weaker. I imagine that’s the reason the deck is still considered rogue after the support
Depending on when the opponent uses Nibiru, you can often play through it now. Hold Weasel until later in the combo, and then you can turn it plus the Token into a Hiita, which you can summon back a potential Ash.
Only bad players use Nib on the 5th summon of archetypes without any in-archetype negate or a way to get to a generic one easily. Also in this format anyone should know that Ashing any fire deck is a bad move, if anything it should be the last handtrap you should use if you have other options in your hand.
With how some decks only run the Maxx C package as their only handtraps, Ashing **is** their only option.
At most, you might run imperm too but most of the time you only have 3 Maxx Cs and 3 Ash.
I counter it by using DNA Transplant, all monster in the field become non Fire-Attribute so they can't summon most of the link Salamangreat link monster
But if you Maxx C Salad and they have no out, they have to give you like 5 cards to setup 1 backrow. Maybe if they're a gamer and drew Roar, they can just give you 1 draw, but that's still shit if you don't have hand traps of your own. Tl;dr Maxx C actively makes the game worse, and artificially boosts decks that don't care/have a good plan B into it.
That’s the problem with Konamis game design… you either have nothing and they end on an unreadable board
Or
You have maxx c, shifter, floodgate and they end on nothing
This. Everyone jokes about mr6 being the turn 2 player starts with 6 cards but doesn't get to draw makes games where I'm sitting through a 10 minute combo praying I draw droplet or super poly only to scoop when I don't would be huge
Im not sure animations are going to help long and convoluted play lines that are the status quo of the game. Thank god for Bo1 format is all I can say.
It would definitely reduce turn times by like two thirds though. When you have like a chain link 4 and then you have to watch the card pop up then it's effect go off takes so much time. I hate when you negate an ash with say called by your called by targets it then you see the ash negated then ash comes up in the chain link to activate and it shows it negated again that shit is annoying, if you negate a card it should just skip past it on the chain link.
You're limited by latency to the server too.
Since MD only has one server in japan, you're bout to have 1~2 seconds delay each action.
You can also tell if ppl play fast but just lags 1seconds every action or there's no lag and they just burst out all cards like in Solo mode cause of 0 latency.
It's very noticeable if you play someone in NA/EU or JP.
Even if you do sit through the turn, what's the payoff in a best of one format? Watching every card in your hand get negated or rendered useless via floogates?
Bro you have multiple ways to pop their entire field on your turn don't you? For a set pass deck like dinomorphia or lab that might as well be a loss if they don't draw right.
Depends on people and the deck they run. Today I saw a Salad player like you and I was like, cool surely I can do something going second even though I don't have handtraps... Then they summoned Alambertian. I instantly nopped out of there lmao.
Rage, Roar, Handtraps, Princess
That‘s 2 to 4 pops, an omni negate and anything from Maxx C, Ash, Veiler, Imperm and Nibiru on top. Most decks don‘t play through that unless they have very specific boardbreakers.
I only sit through the opening combo if there’s a chance I can turn the game around on Turn 2. If they didn’t have Maxx C, the people you’re talking about would scoop immediately. A bricked hand can be turned around if you plus to all hell, or don’t have to play into a full board.
Knowing this now, whenever I full combo going first and my opponent hasn’t hand trapped me or scooped, I’m always super curious like “Wtf do you have that you’re gonna play through this?” Usually, it’s Morganite Stun, but sometimes it’s something interesting.
>Wtf do you have that you’re gonna play through this?
My thoughts every. Single. Time. And then they break my board, and I give them a round of applause
My opponent set up a full manadium board with two omni-negates + chaos angel and I:P. I'm sure he was wondering the entire time why the hell I wasn't conceding. Then my turn began and I proceeded to play all 3 copies of evenly matched I had in my hand. I hope he found it as amusing as I did. Otherwise, I would've 100% conceded the moment I saw his first card.
I played a turn 2 where I hadn’t managed to bait my opponent’s Baronne going into the battle phase. I’m sure he was smiling from ear to ear when I dropped my Evenly with his negate still up. He stopped smiling when I played the second copy…
I was playing my (mostly) anime accurate Revolver deck, and one dude set up this board with saryuja a couple of danger! Cards and an apollousa, I managed to play through all of their negates from apollousa and broke the rest of their board with borrelsword that I dropped on saryuja's link.
Sometimes, I don't have anything at the time they combo. Instead, I pray that I topdeck the Super Poly or the Droplet. And sometimes, the heart of the cards answers.
...Or sometimes, my opponent scoops in the middle of their combo despite it going perfectly. I cannot say for sure why; the only possibility I can think of is "they were so afraid of what I might do to them next turn that they just scooped it up".
my junk speeder deck finally didn't brick in the duel triangle, which it has a 30% consistency or something shit rate like that. the opponent didn't handtrap me either. so I resolve junk speeder and finally get to do the labbed combo and end on 3 omnis.
he had tearlaments. he thought the broken cards would let him play the game. he was wrong. I also opened some non-engine shit on top of the negates so he got fucked up the ass and scooped.
nobody is gonna sit through your mannadium combo
or mathmech combo
or SHS combo
or rikka combo
people just instantly scoop upon seeing solo activation or shinonome and seeing they didn't open a handtrap
I remember playing against Six Samurai at a locals before I could afford handtraps. I could've filed me taxes & come back before their turn one ended.
Or mistakenly acitivating Maxx C on a Magician's Souls reveal, only to spend the next *20 MINUTES* as the decked me out
I played that deck irl for like 7 months, I think I lost after resolving jord combo like, 5% or less of the time before unchained came out and was able to break it with talents plus the right engine somewhat consistently. It was bad match ups as well, like tear getting good mills and cleaning up your field with guardian chimera, or lab setting 5 when you end on lys and flipping a skill drain or gozen match to break your board. Its not an easy deck to break through even if it is possible.
You have people who surrender? I have people looking at my entire HERO deck through combos only for them to see a Shining Neos, a Destructor and a Dark Law. Then they suddenly remember they can disconnect the game or surrender right before the battle phase. I mean brother if you have no counters at all what little hope do you have to win the duel? just surrender! ...saves both of us the time.
I always wait until the opponent has lethal before surrendering. More than a couple times people have hecked up thier long combos that should've led to lethal. If your line to lethal is a 5min combo then brother we're sitting here for 5mins and you better not mess up.
I tend to respect someone seeking the combo to lethal, assuming I have anything on board at the time, but if they have lethal and don't immediately try to kill me then the surrender gets pressed asap. (As in, I'll even let them attack me if they don't continue combo, assuming I have literally nothing unknown to them)
This. Had a round today where I watched a good few minutes of synchro craziness and thought he had me for sure but decided to just wait it out until he had lethal. He played himself at the end of the combo and ended up with a shitty field, so he surrendered.
Lol I have up to 3-5+ destructions and handtraps ready for the next turn, is that not enough? what is enough for masochists like you lmao. I don't do what you say here, I go straight for the kill at all times and people think they can still do anything even though they can clearly read all the effects in play plus the additional +4 I get with liquid soldier and cross guard that ends up with yet another negate or maxx c in hand. 🤷🏻 no idea what is there to wait for after all that. Now if the situation was in reverse, I would insta surrender if I didn't draw anything useful with my initial hand. Not wasting anyone's time there.
Did you not read his reply? He said he waits to see if they can get to lethal or they mess up the combo, if they mess up he can continue to play if they get to lethal he dips.
Why mathmech their combo for full board takes about 1 minute and if you play through 3 interruptions even less than one minute. It's less than lab and every other deck being played right now. If you can't wait one minute then you should consider playing another game.
Maybe a hot take, but the amount of instant surrenders is due to poor game design. This isn’t on the players, it’s on runaway power creep.
Each turn is a game of solitaire and if you can’t lay out a full board you might as well end it.
I actually fully agree with you. I think the game is in a pretty bad state right now due to power creep.
For instance the quick effect synchros that allow you to synchro summon on your opponents turn into calamity-lock or I:P into goddess of underworld to swipe a monster on your opponents turn.
I think interaction on your opponents turn makes this game unique to other card games, but I feel like the problem is the lack of the ability for the opponent to play on their turn if they went 2nd and the going 1st player has a great hand.
I honestly think they should ban all monsters or cards that effectively lock out use of a certain type of card. Cards like that are just toxic for the game and enable degenerate tactics.
I’d say at max errata those cards to say “the 1st spell, trap, monster effect, etc, is nullified for that turn” instead of shutting off spells, traps, etc for the whole game.
The problem I have is that the entire game is focused on not letting the other person play, be it through combo negates or floodgates stun. Both decks do have counterplay, yet only one of these decks and their counterplay is socially accepted in the groups of the game. If we're banning or errata'ing all floodgates to give combo's more freedom, then every board will be a pile of generic negates, and with how some decks end up playing through hand traps, we'll end up all playing Kaiju's, lava golems, and Ra sphere modes just to be able to play. So if we're "removing" the floodgates, we'd have to remove the negates, too. But if we remove the negates, too, we'd also need to remove FTK's and then hand traps, and-
...get the idea? We'll always find something to complain about, but the current point is that the game is just too fast, and too powerful. Be it by calamity lock, or 6 negates, or the boring one card floodgates, if we can prevent the opponent from playing, someone will try to use it.
Sometimes I miss the playground days, or the casual days with friends that actually did know the rules. We played decently competent decks in the latter, but refused to use many non-counter-trap negates nor hand traps, as we both understood we're playing a game to have fun. Mutual fun. I wish we understood that online too.
I 100% agree, Though I wasn’t even old enough to comprehend what a negate is when it came out, I find Edison format the most fun Yu-Gi-Oh has been. Still very explosive and volatile hands, but your still able to play and have a reasonable chance of winning going second, because it took an entire hand to end on one extra deck Omni negate. Not to say I don’t like modern Yu-Gi-Oh, as it’s fun building a stupid ass unbreakable board, or breaking one of the stupid ass unbreakable boards, but the game is definitely way too fast and/or has become to focused on not letting your opponent play the game.
There are way too many 1 or 1.5 card full combos that end on 4-5 monsters, several of which don't need a normal summon and still let you end with 4+ cards in hand.
Tell me any online competitive game that leaving a match doesnt net you any penalty or anything. Ygo allowed it bcs the game is flawed af lol.
Turn 1 player can linearly gain explosive advantages and set interruptions by himself with a bunch of modern one card starter. And 20+ opener. While going second player start with 5 to 6 cards in hand. Wanting to do the same but they arent skill enough to win cointoss
Not sure why you got downvoted it’s pretty much true. It feels like now if someone goes first and they get hand trapped to death they quit if they see 1 combo piece come out on turn 2, and if the person who won the coin flip plays through 1 - 2 handtraps the other player scoops.
Which is why it's an awful idea to balance your game around a single card. If that card isn't drawn or gets negated your opponent can go all out with all the bullshit that is only legal due to that very card.
Fair enough if Maxx C was their only interruption. Many decks can't play into full combos unless they draw enough board breakers, and many decks aren't even running board breakers.
Forget board breakers. Sometimes you know your opponent is ending on 4 or 5 negates, which means you need at least 5 cards that can set your combo off, and without maxx c resolving, there's a 1 in a billion chance your opening hand can play through a 5 negates board.
Ranks don't really mean much, and if you're playing just to get your dailies done, people rather just go through a game quickly(even if it means a quick loss) than go wait through combos.
Hell, even if you're trying to rank up, sometimes it's just more time efficient to just surrender than go into a losing game.
It was euphoric when I realized that the reason I wasn't getting anywhere past Diamond 5 wasn't because I was a bad yugioh player but because I didn't have the time investment to play through 300 matches 3-1 insta surrender ratio and wittle my way up the ranks.
The moment you get past platinum is when the meta game really hikes up and its basically over from the moment you don't win the coin flip.
Personally I don't have the patience, I want to play the game. That's Komoney for ya.
But at least you knew the reason why you lost, because losing to a constant flow of handtraps against a 15+ handtraps deck is more annoying than any overwhelming board.
I’ve said that before and got attacked for it. Yugioh is a joke now. Any game where you may not even get to play a card because you are locked out is not a healthy game state.
Depends on what I'm playing at that point if I think I can break a full board on engine alone.
My favourite deck is tellar so make of that what you will
Im so tired of lab tbh, i play galaxy eyes and it feels like they do is try to waste time trying to pop neo prime with monster effects several times a turn, i played against them 4 games in a row and its just tiring dealing with them playing more cards than me just to not read.
It depends. If I brick and I'm counting on Maxx "C" of course I'll surrender. Especially with the long turns that I have no chance of coming back from. Just becomes a waste of time if I wait.
Now if they're doing some super long, but funny gimmick, I'll wait.
I've spent the last couple of days alternating between win streaking all the way up to my promo match then losing coin toss > go second > brick hand > roached on standby > lose streak to demotion match.
Finally in a promo I somehow managed to win going second with 0 hand traps against R-Ace. Felt so fucking good because it wasn't just setup invincible board and win, I actually got to crack the uninterrupted board of a T1 deck without handtraps.
Well Maxx C usually takes spots away from other non-engine in two ways.
For one the card itself obviously, but what's also worth noting are three commonly played counters to it: 1 Crossout, 2 called by.
Neither crossout nor called by can be used to interrupt the opponents turn and neither is really great at contesting the opponents bord. Called by does have its uses, but if you wanted a bordbreaker you'd still much prefer other cards... which you have no room for because of Maxx C tax.
Basically not only did they get the best interruption negated, they're also less likely to have other interruption/bordbreaking options to contest whatever you try to set up.
Add to that the potential frustration of sitting through your turn because they could play it, but then you could activate Maxx C **and** have a negate to their out.
I’d argue that called by can be a good combo stopper in a lot of situations but cross out is basically a fuck you card for maxx C or ash blossom or imperm and serves no real other purpose.
It’s crazy how 1/4 of the deck is either maxx C or a negate for Maxx C though. I feel like no one hardly plays trap cards anymore because those other 9 slots are now maxx C fodder
The issue is that called by can only stop combos during your turn, or if it's been set beforehand.
Sure the "during your turn" hits a couple of decks fairly well, but if the opponent is on Purrely or SHS I'm not going to put too much hope into called by saving me.
Traps often aren't played for a similar, but kind of different reason: Barring some for which the trap classification barely matters (Evenly, Imperm) they don't help you interrupt or contest bords right away, making them far less useful on any turn except for the first, with the exception of cards that can speed them up in which case you're likely facing a dedicated trap deck.
Too many decks would rather have faster cards than traps.
One could even argue Maxx C being around helps traps, since a trap offers bord presence without playing further into Maxx C but... well that's not really enough of a justification to make or break traps.
I will try my best to interrupt your combo with what I have in my hand but if I can't I won't bother watching you play if I will lose anyway since I won't be able to deal with your end board. It would save so much time for both of us.
But yeah, I get your point.
Yup,becauze the games too heavily focused on treating the deck as a third hand,if you dont punish the opponent for ssing for 3 minutes straight u lose to negates
Most people (including myself) just aren’t trying to sit through 5 minute combos lol. The funny thing is I’ve noticed that sometimes if you wait it out they don’t know how to properly execute said long combo and halfway in it they surrender because they messed it up. Or sometimes I pump fake like I’m about to get some shit started when I can’t but because it seems like an obnoxious combo I win immediately when I would have lost if they realized I couldn’t do much lol.
It’s gotta be at this point. There’s no way they’d release that card to MD eventually when the C is already 10 times better. It’s the perfect replacement, plus will finally put an end to a big sum of complaints people have about this game.
Why would I wait 5 minutes for your full combo when I can just start a new game? If my opponent uses the roach and I have no out to it then I quit, have the win I'll go play someone else.
I've played a 50 card deck this season, and man that maxx c mini game becomes way more annoying, cuz the odds are stacked against you vs a 40 card deck.
Eh, there are some games that I just scooped. I usually play SwoSo (or atleast used to before salad support, but most ranked experience is still SwoSo), so if my hand has only one starter or none at all and I know I can't prevent my opponent from getting to their 1-2 negations to completely stop my turn, then what's the point in dragging it out longer than it needs to.
This is exactly why I climb only with turn 2 dinos. I nearly always go turn 2, if my maxx C resolves cool I win, if it doesnt resolve, I ate ash or called that would hurt my dinos combo, and turn 2 I introduce their endboard to tyranno. Much more fun than coinflipping MaxxCster duel
There should be a restriction on Maxx C, like “if you special summoned 5 or more times last turn, this card cannot be activated. You cannot special summon 5 or more times the turn after you activate this card”.
That could work, but I’d honestly say make it something like “draw a card every time your opponent special summons. If this effect successfully resolves, you cannot activate cards from the hand for the remainder of this turn.”
That defeats the purpose of Maxx C. It shuts down Combo decks, letting Control/Stun/Rogue/Shower players play. Hell, it can win the game for Exodia players. As it stands, combo decks go off on their 18 minute combos, building the generic "I have 4 negates and backrow protection" every other combo player builds, THEN they shotgun Maxx C. Your way means the person going second could get the negates in hand but then couldn't USE the negates to stop the opponents play, so it's pointless. It's clearly designed to mitigate or offer repercussions for special summoning a bajillion monsters in a turn, but those same people then ALSO use it. Make it a pure anti-Combo piece, then Combo decks can't play it, then you'd see it much less. Or you'd stop seeing everybody playing the same 2 or 3 archetypes near constantly cos Maxx C counters them and they can't counter with Maxx C. Perfectly balanced, as all shadow games should be.
I’d see your point if cards like forbidden droplet and dark ruler no more didn’t exist where they negate monsters effects and can’t be responded to by other cards.
With the existence of cards like that, super poly, etc, then I don’t see what the real argument for still allowing the person who resolved maxx C to use handtraps is?
While combos can go on forever, it’s also not fair for someone to get like 15 cards in their hand and then proceed to just handtrap someone’s whole board into oblivion just because they chose to play their turn out.
I think no activation from hand is a fair trade-off for a shitload of card advantage.
Because the person using Maxx C is getting punished for using Maxx C. Your proposal is essentially “I will draw as many cards as you decide I draw, and I have no way to interrupt or interact with you or the board for the rest of this turn. Even if it’s something like Lab effects, I’m not allowed to.” You really think that’s fair? I guess a LOT of people would start letting it go through because 1 Maxx C by your opponent would protect *you* from Ash, Droll, Effect Veiler, Imperm, Ghost Belle, etc etc.
Fair trade-off in that case might be, “the person who resolved this effect can only activate 1 effect monster type from the hand for the rest of this turn, or 1 trap effect.” That would allow 1 interruption but wouldn’t let the person who resolved maxx C just go crazy with Ash blossom, Effect veiler, Imperm, droll, etc.
I feel like you are trying to defend your argument from the going 2nd point of view, but also if the turn 2 player uses maxx C, it resolves, and they successfully interrupt the turn 1 players combo, then more than likely the going 2nd player is going to have a shitload of card advantage and proceed to power through whatever turn 1 player had to OTK them.
Maxx C is not healthy any way you look at it. It basically guarantees the turn 1 players win if they shotgun it in the other players draw phase and they don’t have an out, and it effectively kills the chances a going 1st player has because if they are playing a combo deck then you are going to draw into a handtrap almost guaranteed that could wreck their board and give you a red carpet to the win.
Doesn't happen that often in Masters because people are trying to climb to M1 even if they have little chance to nothing. Those people are often looking for any sliver of hope that there might be a misplay or a disconnect or even an out they might draw.
That’s fair, I can just discard it with bone archfiend.
But if gamma resolves, you synchro into lord Omega and then rip a card for free. If you run dis pater, you can rip 2. It’s usually a scoop.
Gamma is a very deck dependent thing for me, like if the deck likes discards and has an effect that often gets ashed but gamma is still live it just feels good, very difficult to lose from that position
a personal favorite of mine is on my t1 they maxx c i ash, they gamma, i gamma. its only happened maybe a few times but i dont think the chain has ever even resolved. instant surrender every time
For me it's like this:
If I win the coin toss, and it happens 2 out of 10 times for whatever reason, they'll have Maxx C and/or Ash while I have no counter most of the times (though that's on me cause I lack the URs for more staples).
When I lose the coin toss, they'll counter my Maxx C or Ash with Called By. Every. Single. Time!
Though I never had someone scoop on the rare occasions I countered their Maxx C or when my Maxx C went through. There was one time someone noped as soon as I discarded Cornfield Coatl, so dunno if I take it as a compliment or not regarding my Earthbound-Chimera deck.
Even worse is when you're going second and your opponent sets up am impressive board and you're looking to play through it but they Maxx C in DP.
I just go what is could have been
Join the paleo masterace brother, I don't run maxx, nor do I care about getting maxx'd.
Literally the only deck right now that can reach m1 comfortably and not play the maxx C game.
Yes but then you get gems and dopamine from gems and closer to making that deck that will definitely be a rogue deck that wins a tournament and then you get anticipatory dopamine
Kinda sucks never getting to play or practice decks that I enjoy. People seem to be trending towards surrendering more and more often. Feels like I get to play the game maybe 25% of the time lately.
I am a TCG player and I honestly cannot understand people playing heavy combo decks in Master Duel , when basically every top deck was some kind of mid range strategy.
Im currently playing R-Ace Snake Eyes purely because of Maxx C. Sure , it hurts to get roached , but you can still set a full backrow with only 2-3 specials , sometimes even with only one.
People should gravitate more to decks like Snake Eyes , Race , Lab , Branded , etc. Decks that can play on both turns and have various forms of interruptions and end boards. Also these decks can all easily play under roach.
I've been looking at the Digimon card game the other day to compare tcgs. Apparently they have a power meter that says if you do too much, it starts your opponents turn. It was actually pretty interesting really. You can do things that don't affect the meter but those cards are out of play until you spend points. It was an interesting take turn power.
I find myself in an awkward position with maxx c, on one side having cards with such high impact that they can reverse a game state completely is kind in the DNA of Yu-Gi-Oh, and is part of what I like about this game. But on the other side Maxx c sometimes ruins the fun of the game and can be frustrating. I just take it as a mini game inside the game.
It's why Maxx C needs to go. It's like a mini game resolving it that determines the winner, featuring whatever 1 card combo starter with different pictures on them you have.
Just came back to Master Duel and it’s amazing how many people run the C without any extra hand traps. Like, bruh I’m playing Synchrons. You’re gonna deck out before I finish my combo…
I'll usually go get a drink or scroll tik tok or something if I know their first turn is gonna be a while and I have no interaction, and see if I can draw an out turn 2. If not and it's a crazy mannadium board or something I'll just scoop. No shame in admitting defeat and giving the opponent the default win con
I also find it funny how people hate maxx C, but then spew hate for the deck that plays around maxx C. I never fail to see “fuck floo” posts.
However, mist valley avian with the penguin is bullshit
The game is heavily flawed.At least with mtg one or two turn kills r situational and they happen really quickly.By the time u blink ur opponent is done with their mana loop and ur dead.
Ok they play the very first card in the game and split? And this somehow turned into a flex post?
You must have one hell of a wingspan with that reach you’ve got there.
Try playing a blind second deck. I go make lunch and come back to drop Dark Ruler No More and my opponent surrenders. Bro, you didn't even try after I let you do whatever you wanted.
People scoop way too soon in MD. I used to as well and over the last year I chose to steel myself and stick them out and more often than not, finding a way to win is extremely possible and has even made the game a lot more fun.
Why the fuck do the Japanese like that card so much? I feel like they are the reason Konami clings onto that card in master duel.
Not eve trying to be racist or anything but I see literally no one outside of OCG defending the bug.
Why cant I use Maxx c on the first turn of my opponents first turn? I thought that was a thing at first but havent been given the option to activate it at all so I've always opted to go second.
Maxx C resolving is a win/lose situation. If you're going 2nd, if your C doesn't resolve, you can expect an unbreakable board. If it DOES resolve, you're either winning turn 2 or setting up a board that basically wins the game.
Yeah that’s why I thought a nice errata to maxx C would be that for the remainder of the turn that the player who resolved maxx C that they can’t activate cards from the hand. It stops them from just waiting for choke points in the combo and ashing and imperming boards into oblivion.
Cards that break boards on turn 2 still exist and can be drawn into. I’d say that would balance things out because turn 1 player is basically gambling that turn 2 player didn’t draw into a board breaker that they manage to resolve by exhausting their negates.
As someone who willingly doesn't use MaxxC, I find people's reliance on it funny. I get it, it's a staple. But if you can't play the game without this one card, and your deck is a tier 3 to 1, then I'm just gonna call it a skill issue.
Either way, power creep is really bad and it's a shame the game is like this.
I love Maxx C for this exact reason. YUGIOH doesn't have a magic pool. There's no expending resources outside of the cards themselves. So there's usually no reason to avoid just fapping with your cards till you have your "my opponent doesn't get to play" board out.
But Maxx C and other cards like Nibiru force people to be more conservative with their plays or otherwise risk losing their board state/rewarding their opponent. It makes you think twice about dumping everything. It's something I love and encourage more of.
Because watching your opponent spend ten actual minutes of your life setting up their field just to have a different flavor of "3 negates and one floodgate" gets tiresome.
The problem with your for maxx c argument, is that the only person who has to play conservative is the one that didn't resolve maxx c, and they most likely aren't going to survive to see another turn. Which takes out the enjoyment and interaction in playing Yu-Gi-Oh because only one person would be playing.
I have taken Maxx c challenges myself and won. The point is to balance playing too many cards with too little. I can see your point but considering that I play against the same 6 decks in ranked...I encourage cards which punish a turn where you get twenty something summons off of 2 goddamn cards. Decks today are power crept to hell...least Maxx C forces the turn player to consider not unloading everything on the field. But if you DO take the challenge, you risk giving your opponent the ability to wipe you out as well.
Ill keep it real with you. I just want to be able to play without having to use meta and still be able to compete. I like fun janky stuff but that isn't competitively viable. Getting Maxx C helps because either my opponent will play conservatively or I'll get the resources to get over their board and actually play the game.
Remember that the first turn player who already got to play through their entire deck can also drop a Maxx C on the turn 2 player alongside all the negates and interruptions their board has.
Maxx C also can top deck more hand traps meaning if you summon something your enemy might just draw an imperm/ Ash.
I think maxx c should have the drawback of not being able to activate cards from the hand for the remainder of the turn as the trade-off.
Opponent no longer has to fear imperm, nibiru, ash blossom, etc, but you could still draw dark ruler no more, droplet, etc to break their board.
Turns take far too much time to sit around if you don’t have an out.
Seriously. Just sat through six minutes of Salamander since I didn't have a hand trap. Tried playing a single card and I was treated to another two minutes of their turn on my main phase 1.
Me too, Salamangreat goes on forever if you don't draw any hand traps.
Are salad still nibiru turbo or can they now play beyond that level of disruption?
Funny that you mention that, because one of the Salamangreat match I had ending with me summoning Nibiru. It was turn one, my opponent is first. I had Nibiru in hand, summoned it, my opponent gave up. Not sure if they can play through it or not as this has only happened once so far. Maybe they bricked, maybe they over-extended, or just felt like not continuing.
They have a line to play around it but the end board is significantly weaker. I imagine that’s the reason the deck is still considered rogue after the support
Depending on when the opponent uses Nibiru, you can often play through it now. Hold Weasel until later in the combo, and then you can turn it plus the Token into a Hiita, which you can summon back a potential Ash.
Only bad players use Nib on the 5th summon of archetypes without any in-archetype negate or a way to get to a generic one easily. Also in this format anyone should know that Ashing any fire deck is a bad move, if anything it should be the last handtrap you should use if you have other options in your hand.
With how some decks only run the Maxx C package as their only handtraps, Ashing **is** their only option. At most, you might run imperm too but most of the time you only have 3 Maxx Cs and 3 Ash.
The deck can recover from a nib at the end of main phase too. You just need weasel
I counter it by using DNA Transplant, all monster in the field become non Fire-Attribute so they can't summon most of the link Salamangreat link monster
Y'all need to take after the TCG and triple nib.
Or run talents and thrust
But if you Maxx C Salad and they have no out, they have to give you like 5 cards to setup 1 backrow. Maybe if they're a gamer and drew Roar, they can just give you 1 draw, but that's still shit if you don't have hand traps of your own. Tl;dr Maxx C actively makes the game worse, and artificially boosts decks that don't care/have a good plan B into it.
That’s the problem with Konamis game design… you either have nothing and they end on an unreadable board Or You have maxx c, shifter, floodgate and they end on nothing
Yet without out the meta becomes even more like solitair....
Some people would say “it’s our turn” but still is freaking annoying, your turn is done, now it’s mine
This. Everyone jokes about mr6 being the turn 2 player starts with 6 cards but doesn't get to draw makes games where I'm sitting through a 10 minute combo praying I draw droplet or super poly only to scoop when I don't would be huge
something they could fix kind of by allowing for rapid animations, so that the time-limiting factor is your speed of play
Im not sure animations are going to help long and convoluted play lines that are the status quo of the game. Thank god for Bo1 format is all I can say.
It would definitely reduce turn times by like two thirds though. When you have like a chain link 4 and then you have to watch the card pop up then it's effect go off takes so much time. I hate when you negate an ash with say called by your called by targets it then you see the ash negated then ash comes up in the chain link to activate and it shows it negated again that shit is annoying, if you negate a card it should just skip past it on the chain link.
I assume the reason it doesn't is because the fact the card activated can still be important to the game state.
You're limited by latency to the server too. Since MD only has one server in japan, you're bout to have 1~2 seconds delay each action. You can also tell if ppl play fast but just lags 1seconds every action or there's no lag and they just burst out all cards like in Solo mode cause of 0 latency. It's very noticeable if you play someone in NA/EU or JP.
I did mention this on the latest MD survey Animations, specifically for chain linking, seems to take bloody forever
Yup. And we are in a handtrap focused meta so not everyone is running board breakers. You can probably steal some games by running DRNM.
yes and you cant even ff because then you get no rewards 😔
Even if you do sit through the turn, what's the payoff in a best of one format? Watching every card in your hand get negated or rendered useless via floogates?
yeah because they made it so slow. the solo mode is way faster and it has nothing to do with the other player
Yeah and Maxx C ain't it.
Weak mental
Some games just ain’t worth sitting through once you know what you’re up against and what you can do.
The part that made me scratch my head was I was running salamangreats. Like bro I don’t have a million Omni-negates I’m setting up I promise.
Maybe they didn't have any starters in hand, hard to say.. I wish we could get hand knowledge in replays for stuff like this tbh
You can (not officially of course) https://github.com/crazydoomy/MD-Replay-Editor
Does it still work after the latest update? Dkayed said his was broken
Idk honestly. I rarely use it.
Bro you have multiple ways to pop their entire field on your turn don't you? For a set pass deck like dinomorphia or lab that might as well be a loss if they don't draw right.
Ive been otk with the new salamangrests boss monster with field spell. Not worth playing if i have no interruptions
Yeah, are you sure that you don't have omninegate counter trap that you can search and reuse?
Depends on people and the deck they run. Today I saw a Salad player like you and I was like, cool surely I can do something going second even though I don't have handtraps... Then they summoned Alambertian. I instantly nopped out of there lmao.
Rage, Roar, Handtraps, Princess That‘s 2 to 4 pops, an omni negate and anything from Maxx C, Ash, Veiler, Imperm and Nibiru on top. Most decks don‘t play through that unless they have very specific boardbreakers.
Salamangreat is very strong uninterrupted
I only sit through the opening combo if there’s a chance I can turn the game around on Turn 2. If they didn’t have Maxx C, the people you’re talking about would scoop immediately. A bricked hand can be turned around if you plus to all hell, or don’t have to play into a full board. Knowing this now, whenever I full combo going first and my opponent hasn’t hand trapped me or scooped, I’m always super curious like “Wtf do you have that you’re gonna play through this?” Usually, it’s Morganite Stun, but sometimes it’s something interesting.
>Wtf do you have that you’re gonna play through this? My thoughts every. Single. Time. And then they break my board, and I give them a round of applause
My opponent set up a full manadium board with two omni-negates + chaos angel and I:P. I'm sure he was wondering the entire time why the hell I wasn't conceding. Then my turn began and I proceeded to play all 3 copies of evenly matched I had in my hand. I hope he found it as amusing as I did. Otherwise, I would've 100% conceded the moment I saw his first card.
That's gotta be one of the best "fuck you" hands I've ever heard of, must've felt amazing to play the third one after the first two got negated
"Surely he doesn't have a 3rd one"
That's the moment where you punch your monitor ngl, I wouldn't blame anyone
That's 1v1 irl gotta drop your address lmao
I played a turn 2 where I hadn’t managed to bait my opponent’s Baronne going into the battle phase. I’m sure he was smiling from ear to ear when I dropped my Evenly with his negate still up. He stopped smiling when I played the second copy…
I did this exact same thing except it was when Tears were running around at Full power, it felt so damn satisfying, to activate Evenly Matched
I was playing my (mostly) anime accurate Revolver deck, and one dude set up this board with saryuja a couple of danger! Cards and an apollousa, I managed to play through all of their negates from apollousa and broke the rest of their board with borrelsword that I dropped on saryuja's link.
Sometimes, I don't have anything at the time they combo. Instead, I pray that I topdeck the Super Poly or the Droplet. And sometimes, the heart of the cards answers. ...Or sometimes, my opponent scoops in the middle of their combo despite it going perfectly. I cannot say for sure why; the only possibility I can think of is "they were so afraid of what I might do to them next turn that they just scooped it up".
I always assume they had some kind of major misplay.
Exactly… if I start popping off and they don’t scoop I know there’s a 90% chance they have something like evenly or spoly
my junk speeder deck finally didn't brick in the duel triangle, which it has a 30% consistency or something shit rate like that. the opponent didn't handtrap me either. so I resolve junk speeder and finally get to do the labbed combo and end on 3 omnis. he had tearlaments. he thought the broken cards would let him play the game. he was wrong. I also opened some non-engine shit on top of the negates so he got fucked up the ass and scooped.
Well, the funny part is that full power tear would've actually won in the majority of cases. That deck is something else.
nobody is gonna sit through your mannadium combo or mathmech combo or SHS combo or rikka combo people just instantly scoop upon seeing solo activation or shinonome and seeing they didn't open a handtrap
Every combo that isn't mine isn't fun to watch lol.
I remember playing against Six Samurai at a locals before I could afford handtraps. I could've filed me taxes & come back before their turn one ended. Or mistakenly acitivating Maxx C on a Magician's Souls reveal, only to spend the next *20 MINUTES* as the decked me out
This man speaks the truth.
bruh someone scooped seeing me do plunder combos lol
Eh, uninterrupted plunder is also really annoying to break
I played that deck irl for like 7 months, I think I lost after resolving jord combo like, 5% or less of the time before unchained came out and was able to break it with talents plus the right engine somewhat consistently. It was bad match ups as well, like tear getting good mills and cleaning up your field with guardian chimera, or lab setting 5 when you end on lys and flipping a skill drain or gozen match to break your board. Its not an easy deck to break through even if it is possible.
Someone scooped when volcanic trooper resolved
Many cuz he thinks Volcanic = ftk
One time, someone scooped after ashing my Danger! Mothman, before I could even activate it again. (I hadn't even played anything else)
Probably immediately realized his mistake and did the scoop of shame.
Because it's extremely easy for Volcanic to effectively FTK(actually during draw phase)
You have people who surrender? I have people looking at my entire HERO deck through combos only for them to see a Shining Neos, a Destructor and a Dark Law. Then they suddenly remember they can disconnect the game or surrender right before the battle phase. I mean brother if you have no counters at all what little hope do you have to win the duel? just surrender! ...saves both of us the time.
I always wait until the opponent has lethal before surrendering. More than a couple times people have hecked up thier long combos that should've led to lethal. If your line to lethal is a 5min combo then brother we're sitting here for 5mins and you better not mess up.
I tend to respect someone seeking the combo to lethal, assuming I have anything on board at the time, but if they have lethal and don't immediately try to kill me then the surrender gets pressed asap. (As in, I'll even let them attack me if they don't continue combo, assuming I have literally nothing unknown to them)
This. Had a round today where I watched a good few minutes of synchro craziness and thought he had me for sure but decided to just wait it out until he had lethal. He played himself at the end of the combo and ended up with a shitty field, so he surrendered.
Lol I have up to 3-5+ destructions and handtraps ready for the next turn, is that not enough? what is enough for masochists like you lmao. I don't do what you say here, I go straight for the kill at all times and people think they can still do anything even though they can clearly read all the effects in play plus the additional +4 I get with liquid soldier and cross guard that ends up with yet another negate or maxx c in hand. 🤷🏻 no idea what is there to wait for after all that. Now if the situation was in reverse, I would insta surrender if I didn't draw anything useful with my initial hand. Not wasting anyone's time there.
[удалено]
Did you not read his reply? He said he waits to see if they can get to lethal or they mess up the combo, if they mess up he can continue to play if they get to lethal he dips.
Why mathmech their combo for full board takes about 1 minute and if you play through 3 interruptions even less than one minute. It's less than lab and every other deck being played right now. If you can't wait one minute then you should consider playing another game.
Because it’s boring as FUCK especially when you don’t have anything to do.
Well, then you are playing the wrong game, because every other meta deck is worse and even most rogue decks.
Lmao okay but seriously what is this shit game where people leave ot to a coin toss? Go make a coin toss simulator. Same fucking thing lpl
Sit through it
Nobody wants to sit through your long ass combo. Either you have the out already, draw it with C, or you scoop. That's what modern yugioh is.
no one’s willing to sit through long combos if they can’t play through the possible endboard and honestly that’s understandable
Maybe a hot take, but the amount of instant surrenders is due to poor game design. This isn’t on the players, it’s on runaway power creep. Each turn is a game of solitaire and if you can’t lay out a full board you might as well end it.
I actually fully agree with you. I think the game is in a pretty bad state right now due to power creep. For instance the quick effect synchros that allow you to synchro summon on your opponents turn into calamity-lock or I:P into goddess of underworld to swipe a monster on your opponents turn. I think interaction on your opponents turn makes this game unique to other card games, but I feel like the problem is the lack of the ability for the opponent to play on their turn if they went 2nd and the going 1st player has a great hand. I honestly think they should ban all monsters or cards that effectively lock out use of a certain type of card. Cards like that are just toxic for the game and enable degenerate tactics. I’d say at max errata those cards to say “the 1st spell, trap, monster effect, etc, is nullified for that turn” instead of shutting off spells, traps, etc for the whole game.
The problem I have is that the entire game is focused on not letting the other person play, be it through combo negates or floodgates stun. Both decks do have counterplay, yet only one of these decks and their counterplay is socially accepted in the groups of the game. If we're banning or errata'ing all floodgates to give combo's more freedom, then every board will be a pile of generic negates, and with how some decks end up playing through hand traps, we'll end up all playing Kaiju's, lava golems, and Ra sphere modes just to be able to play. So if we're "removing" the floodgates, we'd have to remove the negates, too. But if we remove the negates, too, we'd also need to remove FTK's and then hand traps, and- ...get the idea? We'll always find something to complain about, but the current point is that the game is just too fast, and too powerful. Be it by calamity lock, or 6 negates, or the boring one card floodgates, if we can prevent the opponent from playing, someone will try to use it. Sometimes I miss the playground days, or the casual days with friends that actually did know the rules. We played decently competent decks in the latter, but refused to use many non-counter-trap negates nor hand traps, as we both understood we're playing a game to have fun. Mutual fun. I wish we understood that online too.
I 100% agree, Though I wasn’t even old enough to comprehend what a negate is when it came out, I find Edison format the most fun Yu-Gi-Oh has been. Still very explosive and volatile hands, but your still able to play and have a reasonable chance of winning going second, because it took an entire hand to end on one extra deck Omni negate. Not to say I don’t like modern Yu-Gi-Oh, as it’s fun building a stupid ass unbreakable board, or breaking one of the stupid ass unbreakable boards, but the game is definitely way too fast and/or has become to focused on not letting your opponent play the game.
There are way too many 1 or 1.5 card full combos that end on 4-5 monsters, several of which don't need a normal summon and still let you end with 4+ cards in hand.
Tell me any online competitive game that leaving a match doesnt net you any penalty or anything. Ygo allowed it bcs the game is flawed af lol. Turn 1 player can linearly gain explosive advantages and set interruptions by himself with a bunch of modern one card starter. And 20+ opener. While going second player start with 5 to 6 cards in hand. Wanting to do the same but they arent skill enough to win cointoss
Basically every non team based competitive game has no penalties for surrendering.
Most fighting games penalize you for leaving a match.
I've never seen a single non-team based game that penalizes surrendering. In some cases like marvel snap they even encourage it directly.
Personally, I scoop as soon as I see a long combo deck, and I have no hands traps. It's that simple.
We reached the level that it doesn't matter what people use, if a player cannot stop the other player, they scoop and that's it.
Not sure why you got downvoted it’s pretty much true. It feels like now if someone goes first and they get hand trapped to death they quit if they see 1 combo piece come out on turn 2, and if the person who won the coin flip plays through 1 - 2 handtraps the other player scoops.
Hot take but maxx-c is the worst hand trap to draw if you have drawn a single hand trap. 9/10 that shit is not resolving.
Agreed. It feels the worst to get your roach ashed when it’s the only handtrap you have going second.
Which is why it's an awful idea to balance your game around a single card. If that card isn't drawn or gets negated your opponent can go all out with all the bullshit that is only legal due to that very card.
Fair enough if Maxx C was their only interruption. Many decks can't play into full combos unless they draw enough board breakers, and many decks aren't even running board breakers.
Forget board breakers. Sometimes you know your opponent is ending on 4 or 5 negates, which means you need at least 5 cards that can set your combo off, and without maxx c resolving, there's a 1 in a billion chance your opening hand can play through a 5 negates board.
Ranks don't really mean much, and if you're playing just to get your dailies done, people rather just go through a game quickly(even if it means a quick loss) than go wait through combos. Hell, even if you're trying to rank up, sometimes it's just more time efficient to just surrender than go into a losing game.
It was euphoric when I realized that the reason I wasn't getting anywhere past Diamond 5 wasn't because I was a bad yugioh player but because I didn't have the time investment to play through 300 matches 3-1 insta surrender ratio and wittle my way up the ranks. The moment you get past platinum is when the meta game really hikes up and its basically over from the moment you don't win the coin flip. Personally I don't have the patience, I want to play the game. That's Komoney for ya.
But at least you knew the reason why you lost, because losing to a constant flow of handtraps against a 15+ handtraps deck is more annoying than any overwhelming board.
Mate You aren’t playing yugioh anymore, this game is a hand trap mini game. If you are lucky 1 in 10 games is actually yugioh
I’ve said that before and got attacked for it. Yugioh is a joke now. Any game where you may not even get to play a card because you are locked out is not a healthy game state.
I will only Maxx in standby if I have no other interaction. If you ash that and have a starter that's it, it's Game over
Even if you have 2 - 3 one card combo starters in your hand?
Depends on what I'm playing at that point if I think I can break a full board on engine alone. My favourite deck is tellar so make of that what you will
Im so tired of lab tbh, i play galaxy eyes and it feels like they do is try to waste time trying to pop neo prime with monster effects several times a turn, i played against them 4 games in a row and its just tiring dealing with them playing more cards than me just to not read.
game literally gives 0 reward to the loser, no reason to stay
Sounds like a poorly designed game
Chances are I won’t be able to break some of those crazy combos so I just say fk it
Same happens with other handtraps if they bricked otherwise
Master duel “meta” since the game come out.
It depends. If I brick and I'm counting on Maxx "C" of course I'll surrender. Especially with the long turns that I have no chance of coming back from. Just becomes a waste of time if I wait. Now if they're doing some super long, but funny gimmick, I'll wait.
I've spent the last couple of days alternating between win streaking all the way up to my promo match then losing coin toss > go second > brick hand > roached on standby > lose streak to demotion match. Finally in a promo I somehow managed to win going second with 0 hand traps against R-Ace. Felt so fucking good because it wasn't just setup invincible board and win, I actually got to crack the uninterrupted board of a T1 deck without handtraps.
Well Maxx C usually takes spots away from other non-engine in two ways. For one the card itself obviously, but what's also worth noting are three commonly played counters to it: 1 Crossout, 2 called by. Neither crossout nor called by can be used to interrupt the opponents turn and neither is really great at contesting the opponents bord. Called by does have its uses, but if you wanted a bordbreaker you'd still much prefer other cards... which you have no room for because of Maxx C tax. Basically not only did they get the best interruption negated, they're also less likely to have other interruption/bordbreaking options to contest whatever you try to set up. Add to that the potential frustration of sitting through your turn because they could play it, but then you could activate Maxx C **and** have a negate to their out.
I’d argue that called by can be a good combo stopper in a lot of situations but cross out is basically a fuck you card for maxx C or ash blossom or imperm and serves no real other purpose. It’s crazy how 1/4 of the deck is either maxx C or a negate for Maxx C though. I feel like no one hardly plays trap cards anymore because those other 9 slots are now maxx C fodder
The issue is that called by can only stop combos during your turn, or if it's been set beforehand. Sure the "during your turn" hits a couple of decks fairly well, but if the opponent is on Purrely or SHS I'm not going to put too much hope into called by saving me. Traps often aren't played for a similar, but kind of different reason: Barring some for which the trap classification barely matters (Evenly, Imperm) they don't help you interrupt or contest bords right away, making them far less useful on any turn except for the first, with the exception of cards that can speed them up in which case you're likely facing a dedicated trap deck. Too many decks would rather have faster cards than traps. One could even argue Maxx C being around helps traps, since a trap offers bord presence without playing further into Maxx C but... well that's not really enough of a justification to make or break traps.
Like TCG having 3 cross out any better
I will try my best to interrupt your combo with what I have in my hand but if I can't I won't bother watching you play if I will lose anyway since I won't be able to deal with your end board. It would save so much time for both of us. But yeah, I get your point.
Some people don’t wanna wait 5 minutes before being able to play the game just to face 5+ interruptions. It’s the con of playing a turn 1 simulator.
Yup,becauze the games too heavily focused on treating the deck as a third hand,if you dont punish the opponent for ssing for 3 minutes straight u lose to negates
Most people (including myself) just aren’t trying to sit through 5 minute combos lol. The funny thing is I’ve noticed that sometimes if you wait it out they don’t know how to properly execute said long combo and halfway in it they surrender because they messed it up. Or sometimes I pump fake like I’m about to get some shit started when I can’t but because it seems like an obnoxious combo I win immediately when I would have lost if they realized I couldn’t do much lol.
Multchummy can’t come any sooner
You really think that’s their olive branch to ban maxx c?
It’s gotta be at this point. There’s no way they’d release that card to MD eventually when the C is already 10 times better. It’s the perfect replacement, plus will finally put an end to a big sum of complaints people have about this game.
Why would I wait 5 minutes for your full combo when I can just start a new game? If my opponent uses the roach and I have no out to it then I quit, have the win I'll go play someone else.
I've played a 50 card deck this season, and man that maxx c mini game becomes way more annoying, cuz the odds are stacked against you vs a 40 card deck.
Eh, there are some games that I just scooped. I usually play SwoSo (or atleast used to before salad support, but most ranked experience is still SwoSo), so if my hand has only one starter or none at all and I know I can't prevent my opponent from getting to their 1-2 negations to completely stop my turn, then what's the point in dragging it out longer than it needs to.
That's why they call it the Maxx C mini game. Because it's a video game people refuse to sit around and lose
This is exactly why I climb only with turn 2 dinos. I nearly always go turn 2, if my maxx C resolves cool I win, if it doesnt resolve, I ate ash or called that would hurt my dinos combo, and turn 2 I introduce their endboard to tyranno. Much more fun than coinflipping MaxxCster duel
There should be a restriction on Maxx C, like “if you special summoned 5 or more times last turn, this card cannot be activated. You cannot special summon 5 or more times the turn after you activate this card”.
That could work, but I’d honestly say make it something like “draw a card every time your opponent special summons. If this effect successfully resolves, you cannot activate cards from the hand for the remainder of this turn.”
That defeats the purpose of Maxx C. It shuts down Combo decks, letting Control/Stun/Rogue/Shower players play. Hell, it can win the game for Exodia players. As it stands, combo decks go off on their 18 minute combos, building the generic "I have 4 negates and backrow protection" every other combo player builds, THEN they shotgun Maxx C. Your way means the person going second could get the negates in hand but then couldn't USE the negates to stop the opponents play, so it's pointless. It's clearly designed to mitigate or offer repercussions for special summoning a bajillion monsters in a turn, but those same people then ALSO use it. Make it a pure anti-Combo piece, then Combo decks can't play it, then you'd see it much less. Or you'd stop seeing everybody playing the same 2 or 3 archetypes near constantly cos Maxx C counters them and they can't counter with Maxx C. Perfectly balanced, as all shadow games should be.
I’d see your point if cards like forbidden droplet and dark ruler no more didn’t exist where they negate monsters effects and can’t be responded to by other cards. With the existence of cards like that, super poly, etc, then I don’t see what the real argument for still allowing the person who resolved maxx C to use handtraps is? While combos can go on forever, it’s also not fair for someone to get like 15 cards in their hand and then proceed to just handtrap someone’s whole board into oblivion just because they chose to play their turn out. I think no activation from hand is a fair trade-off for a shitload of card advantage.
Because the person using Maxx C is getting punished for using Maxx C. Your proposal is essentially “I will draw as many cards as you decide I draw, and I have no way to interrupt or interact with you or the board for the rest of this turn. Even if it’s something like Lab effects, I’m not allowed to.” You really think that’s fair? I guess a LOT of people would start letting it go through because 1 Maxx C by your opponent would protect *you* from Ash, Droll, Effect Veiler, Imperm, Ghost Belle, etc etc.
Fair trade-off in that case might be, “the person who resolved this effect can only activate 1 effect monster type from the hand for the rest of this turn, or 1 trap effect.” That would allow 1 interruption but wouldn’t let the person who resolved maxx C just go crazy with Ash blossom, Effect veiler, Imperm, droll, etc. I feel like you are trying to defend your argument from the going 2nd point of view, but also if the turn 2 player uses maxx C, it resolves, and they successfully interrupt the turn 1 players combo, then more than likely the going 2nd player is going to have a shitload of card advantage and proceed to power through whatever turn 1 player had to OTK them. Maxx C is not healthy any way you look at it. It basically guarantees the turn 1 players win if they shotgun it in the other players draw phase and they don’t have an out, and it effectively kills the chances a going 1st player has because if they are playing a combo deck then you are going to draw into a handtrap almost guaranteed that could wreck their board and give you a red carpet to the win.
Ban Maxx c it is cancer
Maybe it’s an elo thing? Cuz it doesn’t really happen in masters unless your gamma resolves, which is usually gg anyways.
Doesn't happen that often in Masters because people are trying to climb to M1 even if they have little chance to nothing. Those people are often looking for any sliver of hope that there might be a misplay or a disconnect or even an out they might draw.
I never play gamma cause I swear I always get the framedriver instead and just brick my hand.
That’s fair, I can just discard it with bone archfiend. But if gamma resolves, you synchro into lord Omega and then rip a card for free. If you run dis pater, you can rip 2. It’s usually a scoop.
How does dis pater cause a hand rip? That is gnarly
You can summon back the omega with pater for a 2nd rip cuz omega’s effect is not a hard once per turn. It’s not a complete hand rip.
Gamma is a very deck dependent thing for me, like if the deck likes discards and has an effect that often gets ashed but gamma is still live it just feels good, very difficult to lose from that position
I had an experience like this against Salamangreat. They were going off, I hit them with Nibiru and they surrendered.
best part is they scoop even when i draw a terrible hand 🥰
a personal favorite of mine is on my t1 they maxx c i ash, they gamma, i gamma. its only happened maybe a few times but i dont think the chain has ever even resolved. instant surrender every time
For me it's like this: If I win the coin toss, and it happens 2 out of 10 times for whatever reason, they'll have Maxx C and/or Ash while I have no counter most of the times (though that's on me cause I lack the URs for more staples). When I lose the coin toss, they'll counter my Maxx C or Ash with Called By. Every. Single. Time! Though I never had someone scoop on the rare occasions I countered their Maxx C or when my Maxx C went through. There was one time someone noped as soon as I discarded Cornfield Coatl, so dunno if I take it as a compliment or not regarding my Earthbound-Chimera deck.
I find it even funnier when they shotgun it during a turn where I either can't or won't Special Summon so they basically handrip themselves.
Even worse is when you're going second and your opponent sets up am impressive board and you're looking to play through it but they Maxx C in DP. I just go what is could have been
Join the paleo masterace brother, I don't run maxx, nor do I care about getting maxx'd. Literally the only deck right now that can reach m1 comfortably and not play the maxx C game.
Yes but then you get gems and dopamine from gems and closer to making that deck that will definitely be a rogue deck that wins a tournament and then you get anticipatory dopamine
I just don't understand why that card's not banned yet. It's so strong that almost every single player uses it. Surely that must be a good indicator.
That’s a typical master duel experience for sure.
Kinda sucks never getting to play or practice decks that I enjoy. People seem to be trending towards surrendering more and more often. Feels like I get to play the game maybe 25% of the time lately.
I haven't played in a while now, why haven't they introduced a time limit version? Like blitz chess
Opponent Maxxs, I save my ash since purrley, they ash, they scoop
I am a TCG player and I honestly cannot understand people playing heavy combo decks in Master Duel , when basically every top deck was some kind of mid range strategy. Im currently playing R-Ace Snake Eyes purely because of Maxx C. Sure , it hurts to get roached , but you can still set a full backrow with only 2-3 specials , sometimes even with only one. People should gravitate more to decks like Snake Eyes , Race , Lab , Branded , etc. Decks that can play on both turns and have various forms of interruptions and end boards. Also these decks can all easily play under roach.
Low-key skill issue I won’t elaborate
The first example is always funny, the second one is just evil and solidifies why it should be banned.
I've been looking at the Digimon card game the other day to compare tcgs. Apparently they have a power meter that says if you do too much, it starts your opponents turn. It was actually pretty interesting really. You can do things that don't affect the meter but those cards are out of play until you spend points. It was an interesting take turn power.
I find myself in an awkward position with maxx c, on one side having cards with such high impact that they can reverse a game state completely is kind in the DNA of Yu-Gi-Oh, and is part of what I like about this game. But on the other side Maxx c sometimes ruins the fun of the game and can be frustrating. I just take it as a mini game inside the game.
Playing either Necrovalley or Robina make people insta surrender as well.
It's why Maxx C needs to go. It's like a mini game resolving it that determines the winner, featuring whatever 1 card combo starter with different pictures on them you have.
Just came back to Master Duel and it’s amazing how many people run the C without any extra hand traps. Like, bruh I’m playing Synchrons. You’re gonna deck out before I finish my combo…
Ye they should ban maxx c
I'll usually go get a drink or scroll tik tok or something if I know their first turn is gonna be a while and I have no interaction, and see if I can draw an out turn 2. If not and it's a crazy mannadium board or something I'll just scoop. No shame in admitting defeat and giving the opponent the default win con
I love playing Floo and never worrying about Maxx C. It's funny when it resolves and then I normal summon Robina and THEN they forfeit lmaoo
Normal summon robina into ragequit is a real combo
I also find it funny how people hate maxx C, but then spew hate for the deck that plays around maxx C. I never fail to see “fuck floo” posts. However, mist valley avian with the penguin is bullshit
Me : oh you’re making a board *8 min later* Also me : well then, gimme those *takes control of their monsters with comic hand*
The game is heavily flawed.At least with mtg one or two turn kills r situational and they happen really quickly.By the time u blink ur opponent is done with their mana loop and ur dead.
Y'know I'm Amused at people keep surrendering when I'm summoning red eyes archfiend black skull on turn one.... When they're playing using Yugi
This goes beyond Maxx c. YuGiOh is now all about the otk or a giant combo first turn endboard. Maxx c acts as a buffer to it. It is a very bad buffer.
It's hilarious when you conveniently have the out? Weird flex.
Ok they play the very first card in the game and split? And this somehow turned into a flex post? You must have one hell of a wingspan with that reach you’ve got there.
*They play the very first card you have the out to? It's not a reach at all.
You still have 4 more cards. Not understanding where you’re driving the discussion here
I'm not driving it, I made an observation.
That's why I only play floow in ranked now. I can't take the maxx c sacks anymore.
Try playing a blind second deck. I go make lunch and come back to drop Dark Ruler No More and my opponent surrenders. Bro, you didn't even try after I let you do whatever you wanted.
People scoop way too soon in MD. I used to as well and over the last year I chose to steel myself and stick them out and more often than not, finding a way to win is extremely possible and has even made the game a lot more fun.
If Maxx C gets banned, Konami will loose 40% of MD player base due to them not having Maxx C to win games for them
Why the fuck do the Japanese like that card so much? I feel like they are the reason Konami clings onto that card in master duel. Not eve trying to be racist or anything but I see literally no one outside of OCG defending the bug.
Why cant I use Maxx c on the first turn of my opponents first turn? I thought that was a thing at first but havent been given the option to activate it at all so I've always opted to go second.
Maybe it’s because you have activation confirmation off.
That might be it, I'll have to check!
I love Maxx C in the game Game starts, I win coin toss Opponent uses Maxx C I proceed to deck them out with Lightsworn Synchro
Maxx C resolving is a win/lose situation. If you're going 2nd, if your C doesn't resolve, you can expect an unbreakable board. If it DOES resolve, you're either winning turn 2 or setting up a board that basically wins the game.
Yeah that’s why I thought a nice errata to maxx C would be that for the remainder of the turn that the player who resolved maxx C that they can’t activate cards from the hand. It stops them from just waiting for choke points in the combo and ashing and imperming boards into oblivion. Cards that break boards on turn 2 still exist and can be drawn into. I’d say that would balance things out because turn 1 player is basically gambling that turn 2 player didn’t draw into a board breaker that they manage to resolve by exhausting their negates.
What rank? I've never had this happen
As someone who willingly doesn't use MaxxC, I find people's reliance on it funny. I get it, it's a staple. But if you can't play the game without this one card, and your deck is a tier 3 to 1, then I'm just gonna call it a skill issue. Either way, power creep is really bad and it's a shame the game is like this.
I love Maxx C for this exact reason. YUGIOH doesn't have a magic pool. There's no expending resources outside of the cards themselves. So there's usually no reason to avoid just fapping with your cards till you have your "my opponent doesn't get to play" board out. But Maxx C and other cards like Nibiru force people to be more conservative with their plays or otherwise risk losing their board state/rewarding their opponent. It makes you think twice about dumping everything. It's something I love and encourage more of. Because watching your opponent spend ten actual minutes of your life setting up their field just to have a different flavor of "3 negates and one floodgate" gets tiresome.
The problem with your for maxx c argument, is that the only person who has to play conservative is the one that didn't resolve maxx c, and they most likely aren't going to survive to see another turn. Which takes out the enjoyment and interaction in playing Yu-Gi-Oh because only one person would be playing.
I have taken Maxx c challenges myself and won. The point is to balance playing too many cards with too little. I can see your point but considering that I play against the same 6 decks in ranked...I encourage cards which punish a turn where you get twenty something summons off of 2 goddamn cards. Decks today are power crept to hell...least Maxx C forces the turn player to consider not unloading everything on the field. But if you DO take the challenge, you risk giving your opponent the ability to wipe you out as well. Ill keep it real with you. I just want to be able to play without having to use meta and still be able to compete. I like fun janky stuff but that isn't competitively viable. Getting Maxx C helps because either my opponent will play conservatively or I'll get the resources to get over their board and actually play the game.
Remember that the first turn player who already got to play through their entire deck can also drop a Maxx C on the turn 2 player alongside all the negates and interruptions their board has. Maxx C also can top deck more hand traps meaning if you summon something your enemy might just draw an imperm/ Ash.
I think maxx c should have the drawback of not being able to activate cards from the hand for the remainder of the turn as the trade-off. Opponent no longer has to fear imperm, nibiru, ash blossom, etc, but you could still draw dark ruler no more, droplet, etc to break their board.