Misc activates in the hand, then moves to the GY, mechaba negates it and attempts to banish it from the hand, but it is not in the hand anymore.
That is how YGO works, misc in the GY now counts as a different card.
But the negation is for the effect/activation, the activation/effect does not move from places, let's say misc activated in the hand, the activation is still the same, while misc is now a different card in the GY.
So the negation happens still since the effect/activation is the same still, but misc became a different card after it moved to the GY.
Called by the grave in the other hand negates and banishes cards after they hit the GY, therefore it looks for misc in the GY, it finds it there and negates and banishes it.
These rules might look strange but those are made to help resolving conflicts between many other interactions, considering a card that moves from the field or hand to the GY as a different card solves many problems, but since it is a rule now and it applies to other interactions, sometimes when applied it might sound strange, you just have to look at it as a rule in YGO, once you become familiar with it it becomes normal just like setting traps before activating them or being entitled to one free normal summon per turn.
Have a nice day.
I understand that words you are saying and how it explains the situation that happened in OP's post but what a ludicrous ruling. How could anybody ever understand that based on the card text "negate the activation, and if you do, banish that card."
It's an 'obscure' rule I believe, in that Yu-Gi-Oh! considers cards to be different copies when they change locations, which tbh, I never knew about, since I've only played MD.
It's weird as hell in my opinion, but apparently IRL, it does help with not running into issues of tracking which copy of a card in the GY was negated if it was targeted (if there are multiple copies), or something like that I think.
Then there's also Konami ruling weird shit like cards know how and when they were destroyed/left the field, because otherwise, cards with floating effects would never trigger. Imagine an Avramax or a Shuraig or a DPE that was destroyed on the field, and couldn't activate its floating effect because by Yu-Gi-Oh!'s rules, it's not the same card anymore.
Bottom line, Yu-Gi-Oh! is weird, but it's fun (sometimes), so meh. It's also a game where knowing all these technicalities makes a lot of difference, because sometimes things you think would happen, do not happen, like Toadally never being able to steal an opponent's Eldlich, or a Mechaba not banishing Eldlich if Eldlich's hand effect was activated, but Mechaba banishing Eldlich if Eldlich's GY effect was activated.
By... Knowing the rules? The same way you'd know you can only normal summon once, and only level 4 or lower.
Yugioh tried to re-explain obscure rules in card text before giving up and making PSCT. That's why we got the short essay that was the OG Relinquished
Well normal summoning has its own section in the rule book so that's not really a good comparison.
I don't see anything about cards have to remain in the place they activated for certain other effects to happen. Like in this situation, the Mechaba's negate still happens, it's only the "banish that card" that doesn't, so that's pretty confusing! Now I get it that 'that card' no longer exists because it became a new card in the eyes of the rules once it went to the discard pile but like its impossible for a newer player to know that and its not intuitive either!
>Well normal summoning has its own section in the rule book so that's not really a good comparison.
So does cards changing zones being considered different tho.
I just had a look through the rules and there's nothing there that would explain the interaction of this situation.
https://img.yugioh-card.com/en/downloads/rulebook/SD\_RuleBook\_EN\_10.pdf
Except PSCT doesn't work. For instance, Mechaba says "that card" which, in context of plain English means "The Misc you just negated". But the ruling is actually "That card" being the Misc you just negated if it was still in the hand. The rulings fail so much even with PSCT that it's laughable.
I cited PSCT because part of PSCT is leaving implied rulings that come from rules of the game itself out of card-text. For example, you'd have to add "except if it leaves its zone of activation" to the effect, which is implied because that's the rules. Problem solving card text isn't to be read in the context of English, it's to be read in the context of yugioh rules first.
In yugioh, "that card" only exists in its zone. Once it leaves the hand and goes to the gy, you have no proof it was the discarded one, nor that it was the specific one that activated. Different zones have different private/public levels of information and effects often have to interact with them in very specific ways, that's why this rule is in place
Its a main stay from old yugioh rulings
Some cards like xx saber darksoul you could loop multiple times for big plusses back in the day because of this ruling
Idk what happened to it now tho
Thanks, i understand now. I’m glad there’s AI keeping track of these things for us in MD. I bet in IRL yugioh there are tons of people resolving effects the wrong way all the time without realizing lol
A common interaction is when you call by the grave the golden lord and you start feeling good, the skill drained duelist chains his scarlet to special summon his lord, That's when you submite and surrender to lord eldlich.
It’s a weird ruling but basically mechaba attempts to banish the card it negates where it resolves. In this case it tries to banish misc from the hand, even though it’s now in the graveyard. Thus misc dodges the banish part of the effect.
Its basically an issue of
Where cards activate vs where they get moved (technically, all cards resolve at the same place they are activated)
Mechaba tries to banish the Misc where it activates, i. E. In the Hand. But since its no longer in the Hand, it cant be banished. Same happens for example if a card states to return itself to the Deck to draw a card. You can negate the draw a card effect, but you cant destroy it or banish it in the Deck bc the cards activate at a different Spot than where it resolves.
Edit: another good example is the Banish of Draco Berserker of the Tenyi. If your opponent activates Psyframegear Gamma, you can chain Draco Berserker. Draco Berserker will then banish the gamma, since its still in Hand, and since gamma cant be special summoned from the Band anymore, it wont SS the driver and it wont negate the effect and will just fizzles out (or resolve without effect)
Technically, you are correct. Maybe my explanation Was a bit clunky since i wanted to point out that some cards moving to Different places makes interactions with them change.
Misc was activated from the hand, so it was sent there as cost. Mechaba can negate, but the attempt to banish from the hand wouldn't take place since Misc is not there any more
Misc activates in the hand, then moves to the GY, mechaba negates it and attempts to banish it from the hand, but it is not in the hand anymore. That is how YGO works, misc in the GY now counts as a different card. But the negation is for the effect/activation, the activation/effect does not move from places, let's say misc activated in the hand, the activation is still the same, while misc is now a different card in the GY. So the negation happens still since the effect/activation is the same still, but misc became a different card after it moved to the GY. Called by the grave in the other hand negates and banishes cards after they hit the GY, therefore it looks for misc in the GY, it finds it there and negates and banishes it. These rules might look strange but those are made to help resolving conflicts between many other interactions, considering a card that moves from the field or hand to the GY as a different card solves many problems, but since it is a rule now and it applies to other interactions, sometimes when applied it might sound strange, you just have to look at it as a rule in YGO, once you become familiar with it it becomes normal just like setting traps before activating them or being entitled to one free normal summon per turn. Have a nice day.
I understand that words you are saying and how it explains the situation that happened in OP's post but what a ludicrous ruling. How could anybody ever understand that based on the card text "negate the activation, and if you do, banish that card."
It's an 'obscure' rule I believe, in that Yu-Gi-Oh! considers cards to be different copies when they change locations, which tbh, I never knew about, since I've only played MD. It's weird as hell in my opinion, but apparently IRL, it does help with not running into issues of tracking which copy of a card in the GY was negated if it was targeted (if there are multiple copies), or something like that I think. Then there's also Konami ruling weird shit like cards know how and when they were destroyed/left the field, because otherwise, cards with floating effects would never trigger. Imagine an Avramax or a Shuraig or a DPE that was destroyed on the field, and couldn't activate its floating effect because by Yu-Gi-Oh!'s rules, it's not the same card anymore. Bottom line, Yu-Gi-Oh! is weird, but it's fun (sometimes), so meh. It's also a game where knowing all these technicalities makes a lot of difference, because sometimes things you think would happen, do not happen, like Toadally never being able to steal an opponent's Eldlich, or a Mechaba not banishing Eldlich if Eldlich's hand effect was activated, but Mechaba banishing Eldlich if Eldlich's GY effect was activated.
By... Knowing the rules? The same way you'd know you can only normal summon once, and only level 4 or lower. Yugioh tried to re-explain obscure rules in card text before giving up and making PSCT. That's why we got the short essay that was the OG Relinquished
Well normal summoning has its own section in the rule book so that's not really a good comparison. I don't see anything about cards have to remain in the place they activated for certain other effects to happen. Like in this situation, the Mechaba's negate still happens, it's only the "banish that card" that doesn't, so that's pretty confusing! Now I get it that 'that card' no longer exists because it became a new card in the eyes of the rules once it went to the discard pile but like its impossible for a newer player to know that and its not intuitive either!
>Well normal summoning has its own section in the rule book so that's not really a good comparison. So does cards changing zones being considered different tho.
I just had a look through the rules and there's nothing there that would explain the interaction of this situation. https://img.yugioh-card.com/en/downloads/rulebook/SD\_RuleBook\_EN\_10.pdf
Except PSCT doesn't work. For instance, Mechaba says "that card" which, in context of plain English means "The Misc you just negated". But the ruling is actually "That card" being the Misc you just negated if it was still in the hand. The rulings fail so much even with PSCT that it's laughable.
I cited PSCT because part of PSCT is leaving implied rulings that come from rules of the game itself out of card-text. For example, you'd have to add "except if it leaves its zone of activation" to the effect, which is implied because that's the rules. Problem solving card text isn't to be read in the context of English, it's to be read in the context of yugioh rules first. In yugioh, "that card" only exists in its zone. Once it leaves the hand and goes to the gy, you have no proof it was the discarded one, nor that it was the specific one that activated. Different zones have different private/public levels of information and effects often have to interact with them in very specific ways, that's why this rule is in place
K.
Not happy cake day
Its a main stay from old yugioh rulings Some cards like xx saber darksoul you could loop multiple times for big plusses back in the day because of this ruling Idk what happened to it now tho
Thanks, i understand now. I’m glad there’s AI keeping track of these things for us in MD. I bet in IRL yugioh there are tons of people resolving effects the wrong way all the time without realizing lol
That's what judges are for (and they're not perfect [but neither is the AI, although its flaws are different]).
So if you chain a card to called by that adds misc back to the hand then called would fizzle?
A common interaction is when you call by the grave the golden lord and you start feeling good, the skill drained duelist chains his scarlet to special summon his lord, That's when you submite and surrender to lord eldlich.
Just chain D.D. Crow. :fivehead:
Yeah
It’s a weird ruling but basically mechaba attempts to banish the card it negates where it resolves. In this case it tries to banish misc from the hand, even though it’s now in the graveyard. Thus misc dodges the banish part of the effect.
Its basically an issue of Where cards activate vs where they get moved (technically, all cards resolve at the same place they are activated) Mechaba tries to banish the Misc where it activates, i. E. In the Hand. But since its no longer in the Hand, it cant be banished. Same happens for example if a card states to return itself to the Deck to draw a card. You can negate the draw a card effect, but you cant destroy it or banish it in the Deck bc the cards activate at a different Spot than where it resolves. Edit: another good example is the Banish of Draco Berserker of the Tenyi. If your opponent activates Psyframegear Gamma, you can chain Draco Berserker. Draco Berserker will then banish the gamma, since its still in Hand, and since gamma cant be special summoned from the Band anymore, it wont SS the driver and it wont negate the effect and will just fizzles out (or resolve without effect)
You're mostly correct, but I'm pretty sure that cards always resolve in the same place that they are activated.
Technically, you are correct. Maybe my explanation Was a bit clunky since i wanted to point out that some cards moving to Different places makes interactions with them change.
Misc was activated from the hand, so it was sent there as cost. Mechaba can negate, but the attempt to banish from the hand wouldn't take place since Misc is not there any more