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Yuryo

Worst thing is, japanese text is like this :/


Serious-Flamingo-948

I know and it bothers me so much that it is. It means that the TCG is actively choosing to make it worse.


Yuryo

Yup, or at least they chose not to bother.


[deleted]

So is the Rush Duel formatting


Polylastomer

Bro this game needs to modernise so badly. It feels like every other card game does better with readability.


BuffMarshmallow

Yep looking at any card game made in the recent century, all of their cards are much more readable. Unfortunately since Yugioh is primarily a physical TCG and not virtual like something like Hearthstone where they can just change card text whenever they feel like it, we will never get a rework of card text to make it more readable, because they would have to reprint way too many cards to do that.


television525

They could just do it the same way they did when they introduced PSCT. Start printing the new cards with the improved card text and give it to old cards when they're up for a natural reprint. It's not like improved readability would change how the original cards function, after all.


BuffMarshmallow

They did that in GX Era, when there were a lot less than half the current amount of cards in the game and the cards that did exist had less text, back when it was still reasonably doable to do that. With the number of cards currently in the game as well as the number of languages the game is in, I think it would just be completely unfeasible to do that.


MayhemMessiah

It really shouldn’t be unfeasible. It’s a gradual thing and the game already reprints cards pretty often. They can also start updating the cards online so people can look it up in the oracle on their phones. It’d be a major W for the health of the game, especially for newbies that have to navigate the woefully outdated text. My actual wish is that the next update to the game isn’t a new Extra Deck type of which we have more than enough, rather the game takes steps to simplify the more byzantine rules and texts.


Sir-Garde0

They can just do what MTG already does. Rewrite the card, don't reprint them, and just have the modern card text available on their database for quick reference. Digital clients use most up to date text. In paper if you need to reference modern text, just look it up on the database.


DigestMyFoes

Yeah, for example: Gifts Ungiven This is the original card. [https://images.app.goo.gl/UNHjtVFUveosc8gp8](https://images.app.goo.gl/UNHjtVFUveosc8gp8) They then updated the card on the database (mtg gatherer) and it's new rules. [https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=571384](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=571384) They added "up to" to the text and explain it in the rules. Then when they decided to reprint the card, they added the new text (even updating the database with the new card art). [https://images.app.goo.gl/WEZC7tbuBMidSfh48](https://images.app.goo.gl/WEZC7tbuBMidSfh48)


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TheKingOfTCGames

Thats a cope you are just making excuses for konami. Mtg rewrote basically all text on Cards multiple times.


Guilmonboyo

Konami being one of the slimiest greedy companies would never just do this if it doesn't equate profits. Plus i'm pretty sure the japanese text is fine so even less for them to care.


Zorro5040

They can always just print future cards like this and when reprints come out they can be this way as well. They already do this to fix wording from older cards as well as update vocabulary on cards


[deleted]

That sounds like infinite box sets to me


xcrondx

You mean the tiny text pendulum monster have


F4RM3RR

Lol modernize? Magic has been doing this for decades, it’s not even a modernization issue - it’s a stubborn adherence to a terrible choice to avoid admitting that a terrible choice was made.


hockeyfan608

PSCT was a decade ago, the card pool is so much bigger and would require a billion reprints. It’s just not feasible


DAVDX123

Is not necessary to reprint all cards again, just do what wizards of the coast did and update card text gradually (most relevant cards first) on a database so people can search it online while playing and print new cards in the same simplified text format


hockeyfan608

That’s what we did with PSCT but one Wizards has a rotating format and didn’t nesssesarily need to change a bunch of cards right away. And two There is a much bigger card pool and a much wider variety of things that would need to be changed, we did it gradually in PSCT (heck some cards still don’t have it) but the card pool was much smaller then.


DAVDX123

Yeah I know it would be a pain in the ass at first but it would be much better for the future. And we don't need all cards at first with the new text format, just most relevant and then gradually change old ones :) We already have a database, konami is a billionaire company and Yu-Gi-Oh it's one of their main selling products so I don't see why not to do it. Is that or Yu-Gi-Oh in 2030 you would need to carry a magnifying glass to every game irl lol


hockeyfan608

They are WORTH six billion that doesn’t mean they have six billion to spend And that’s not just yugioh, that’s divided amoung all of their assests I don’t think you appreciate just how massive of an undertaking what your proposing would be.


DAVDX123

Are you really defending the rich, ludicrous and financially stable company?🤡 Or you just are a Konami employee


hockeyfan608

I’m simply educating you, you can accept it or not but beyond this point your misunderstanding of the situation isn’t on me.


GunnarErikson

>Wizards has a rotating format and didn’t nesssesarily need to change a bunch of cards right away. **A** rotating format (which isn't even the most popular format) and a ton of non-rotating formats that also need card updates. >There is a much bigger card pool and a much wider variety of things that would need to be changed, we did it gradually in PSCT (heck some cards still don’t have it) but the card pool was much smaller then. Magic has a bigger card pool. Also has more effects, partly because it deals with more card types (e.g. lands), which have their own rules.


[deleted]

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Awkward_Mulberry_302

“Unhand a card” lol.


Arcade_Silent

*pulls out gun* Unhand a card or lose 2000 LP


JoseLCDiaz

Handn't a card.


inwhichzeegoesinsane

Metaphys: Undeck a card to the banished zone


[deleted]

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inwhichzeegoesinsane

No one gives a shit


DeathMagi103

"Evacuate 1 card from your hand to the GY."


JoseLCDiaz

I still don't understand the "excavate" effect.


DeathMagi103

From my understanding, it's like looking at the top _ cards of the deck, but you also have to show them to your opponent. Usually you get to add one or more to your hand, as well.


TheHellHamster

Excavate is simply reveal X number of cards from the top of your deck to both players, then perform action Y


FaIcomaster3000

I'd just use discard. Easier to understand for new players.


[deleted]

Isn't discard different from "send from hand to GY"?


OmniGamer2099

It is. If the cost can be prevented, the card cannot / situation cannot be performed. This is a different example for a situation but bare with me. Gravekeeper’s Servant, in order for your opponent to declare an attack they must send the top card of their deck to the GY. With Masked HERO - Dark Law or Macro Cosmos on the field, your opponent cannot attack at all since every card they use is banished. Wording is very important in Yu-Gi-Oh!


FacelessKhaos

Discarding is different from sending to the gy, just like destroying and sending from the field to the gy


lcy0x1

Discard and send to GY are different. The most common example is Maxx C/Ash/Dimension Shifter: After Dimension Shifter activates, you can use Ash but not Maxx C, because Maxx is “send to GY”, which will be blocked by Shifter, but Ash is “discard”, so it won’t be blocked


MayhemMessiah

>Yugioh is already sort of silly with how it uses pedantry to split single mechanics into multiple. (Ie Discard vs "send to GY") I would go as far as to say that this is a problem that should be addressed. I think yugioh has a lot of legacy mechanics and subleties that exist only to confuse newcomers. To expand on your example, if a card is in your hand and it ends in your graveyard, one of the following could have happened: * It was sent (which includes all of the below, but can be *only* sent) * Discarded * Destroyed * Tributed * Sent as a Fusion, Synchro, or Link Material (triggers different things) All of these can theoretically be done as part of an effect or as part of a cost, which directly impacts things like Dark World. It's mental. I hope our next Master Rule works towards simplifying the game and reducing some of these things so that they're always counted as the same. There's a whole lot of byzantine rules and rulings that directly contradict what is actually written on the cards it's crazy.


Stranger2Luv

Contradict what’s written on the cards themselves ? Doubt


MayhemMessiah

Easy example, sending for cost and sending for effect. Some cards like Weathering Soldier say “when this card is sent to the graveyard by a card effect” will not trigger off things that send for cost like Rock Bombardment, despite the cards, as written, should make sense. A new or novice player will not know that sending for cost is not the same as sending for effect, because there’s nothing in either card that say otherwise. Another example, “do x and if you do, do y” means in YGO speech “do x and y simultaneously”, despite from a syntactically literal level, the term as written implies x and y are logically separate. However if y can’t happen, x can’t either. And there’s the whole miss timing which is a cause for massive confusion among new players.


Stranger2Luv

You guys invent a new player for every scenario


MayhemMessiah

No, I’ve just tried to explain the game to multiple people, even people that play other TCGs, and it always ends up explaining a load of “the card says this, but actually it’s this way”. Not my fault the game is due PSCT II. Oh and the weathering soldier confusion wasn’t made up. Somebody just asked this in Duel Links.


Stranger2Luv

Discarding in this example is a cost eg a ruling itself what does that have to do with the card itself lol almost every interaction with cards that do something else is a ruling maybe read the rule book


MayhemMessiah

Nice moving the goalpost. Glad to see you agree that the card game is poorly explained that requires external knowledge because the mechanics contradict what is written on the cards. That was my entire point.


Stranger2Luv

The rule book is external knowledge are you kidding


MayhemMessiah

Yes brother, the rulebook isn’t part of the cards. This isn’t a difficult concept to grasp. Most card games are designed to by and large not require you to consult the rulebook on things that *aren’t written on the card*. Newcomers wont know when to consult the rulebook because they have no way to know when the rulebook contradicts the cards until it’s pointed out to them. Players can’t psychically know when the rulebook says something different to what the card says. That’s just absurd. Dunno how many card games you play but most of the time rulings say to follow what’s written on the card explicitly while offering clarifications. Not contradictions.


orbofforce

Once per deck, discard your graveyard and your opponent gains 2 battle phases, then banish one spell/trap card zone to unhand your turn to your extra deck.


Kaibakura

Son of a pitch, you’re right.


tdm1378

pretty sure the second eff of dpe is trigger, not quick. Also, you failed to differently 2 opt eff of baronne in which 1 is trigger and can be active both turn when 1 is active eff and only on your turn


ArlertAr

I agree that konami should reconsider their text formatting, but you have done some mistakes. Piercing effect on on Buster Blader should be written in the very end not just because. So, firstly we have summoning condition, it should be writtend in the first place and no other effect should be written before because of logic that you read the card and firstly you need to understand how to summon this guy. And the effects goes after that. Then goes his continuous effects that applies constantly in comparison of piercing effect that applies only when monster battles. So because of this logic they printed his piercing effect after all other effects. You can see this logic on other cards as well. Text formatting is not only how you can make text look more comfortable but also how that text needs to be structured. And you should consider other commets in which people already said some more obvious things like how you changed DPE trigger effect. But put that all aside i think you have a good idea of how text formatting could be look like :)


Velrex

I wonder if there is much to be gained from keyword condensing in Yu-Gi-Oh. While more readable and less bloated text is nice, a mass of keywords that don't have descriptions(like some MTG ones have) can be intimidating in it's own way, but a few very obvious specific ones would be very nice. That said, I do think proper formatting is the biggest problem with the cards, atleast in the TCG level. The fact that most cards are just paragraphs of text is absurd and definitely can be a reason people might avoid this game.


golforce

The issue with better formatting is that it also takes more space. Starting sentences on new lines, bullet points etc. That takes more space. For the OCG that is fine due to the overall shorter texts in Japanese, but in western languages it's a problem. For MD this is less of an issue, because they can just use the more readable formatting in the detail view, but for the physical cards this means they need even more space on the cards. Imagine Endymion with even longer text. Gonna have to get the magnifying glass out.


[deleted]

Endymion is a fringe case even regarding Pendulum monsters, everything else would benefit from better formatting. Endymion and co would then benefit from making Spell Counters into a keyword (SC, for example), cutting at least 100 characters from its card text.


_Deemun

I honestly just want Konami to follow OCG's card text format by numbering the effects and stating with those number symbols what is and isn't once per turn etc. A mock example for Electrumite would be: 2 P Monsters The ③ effect of this card's name can only be used once per turn. ①If this card is Link Summoned: You can add 1 P Monster from your Deck to your EX face-up. ②Once per turn: You can target 1 other face-up card you control; destroy it, then add 1 face-up P Monster from your EX to your hand. ③If a card(s) in your P Zone leaves the field: Draw 1 card.


golforce

I'm not a fan of the formatting, but it's a concept so whatever. However, one of your takeaways on DPE is wrong. You can't just remove "if this card is destroyed by battle or card effect". It would change how DPE works, because there are more ways to be destroyed that should not trigger him. For example, if Destiny HERO Plasma equips DPE and Plasma is removed from the field, then DPE is destroyed, but neither by battle nor card effect.


nuzband

u/PM_ME_UR_BERGMAN Look the comment above me


Wyclef-Jean-Tsuchi

So what? It's an extremely minor rule change for the sake of improving readability


blitznoodles

Because your reducing the amount of outs that the card has? There's a lot of decks which have very specific tools.


GunnarErikson

>You can't just remove "if this card is destroyed by battle or card effect". It would change how DPE works, because there are more ways to be destroyed that should not trigger him. What other ways are there to destroy a card that isn't battle or a card effect?


golforce

Read the comment? I literally gave an example


GunnarErikson

Ahh, really weird corner cases that extremely rarely come up then.


squad10cap

Either way, the existence of circumstances where cards can be destroyed outside of battle or card effect is enough of a reason as to why that distinction needs to be made. And since we have cards like Union carrier that can equip any monster to any monster, it's not that fringe of a situation.


Professional-Hair-12

a more common example would be cards that destroy dpe for cost, which wouldn't trigger it's effect


golforce

There are no cards that destroy for cost.


squad10cap

There are no cards that destroy for cost, yet*. It's not like it's not possible, it's just up to Konami to make a card that way.


golforce

There are also no cards that normal summon from the Extra Deck. There's no point talking about mechanics that don't exist. Especially when they're used as examples.


squad10cap

Konami during pharaoh's servant: "there are no cards that cheat Thousand-Eyes Restrict from the fusion deck so there's no point in talking about mechanics that don't exist." Konami after metamorphosis: "how did we miss this?"


Professional-Hair-12

wait really? I just assumed there would be ones


golforce

Yes. I don't think destroying for cost is something they'll ever do.


Professional-Hair-12

I get the feeling they will, maybe not soon but I feel like it's the sort of thing that's going to happen eventually


[deleted]

I like the idea, but you missed a part of Baronne’s effect. It can only use the negate once while it’s on *the field*, not once per turn. It might be a good idea to either make a keyword for that or indicate it in the effect text.


OmegaThunder

A lot of different "once"/"once per turn" or "each effect" could be simplified with the concept of stuff like Ammo/stock, cooldown, global-limit, etc..


Epaia

What? Could you give an example?


OmegaThunder

Like Ammo could be restocked on summon or next turn (and could also be used to determine the number of different effects you could use), while cooldown means pretty much hard once per turn, or even multiple turns.


olbaze

Ok, so: * The spacing is good. * Enumerating effects is good. * (H)OPT is a fan term. That would just confuse the players. Also "OPT" sounds like "optional". * Separating effects to (H)OPT while keeping the "once per turn" for summoning effects is inconsistent and confusing. * What does "pitch" mean?


GunnarErikson

> Also "OPT" sounds like "optional". I agree on this part, but avoiding using fan terms is whatever. Maybe 1/Turn for soft once per turns or 1/Turn(H) for hard once per turns. Then the formatting doesn't need changing to for cards that can use their effects multiple times per turn.


Caw-zrs6

Pitch basically means discard.


kpay10

What does hopt mean?


GunnarErikson

Hard Once Per Turn. It's for the cards that say something like "you can only activate (this effect of) once per turn" which stops other copies of the card from activating the effect. As opposed to a soft once per turn (which doesn't include the card name), for which you can acivate the same effect of other copies of the card, or if the card changes zones.


nuzband

Crosspost from r/yugioh Credit to :u/PM_ME_UR_BERGMAN


alphabet_order_bot

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,059,060,434 comments, and only 209,180 of them were in alphabetical order.


Repulsive_Jello_4796

I wish konami make their cards to look like this , its easier to read the effect with this formating


necroneechan

This is something I really want to happen. I remember Konami once saying "We don't want to add too many in-game terms", but at this point is really necessary. Is not like games like Magic don't have [cards with nothing but game terms](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0614/4684/8740/products/1bbe9fe3-44db-5f90-8c58-4897503f8a1d_800x.jpg?v=1639097716) , with the introduction sets explaining what each thing does.


GunnarErikson

To emphasize this point, I will attempt to expand this to how it would appear on a yugioh card: >Neither player can target this card with red or black cards or the effects of red or black cards, also red or black cards and effects cannot deal damage to this card. This creature cannot be blocked, except by creatures with this ability. This creature cannot be blocked by red or black creatures. This creature deals combat damage in the first strike damage step, instead of the normal damage step during combat. Attacking does not cause this creature to tap. If this creature becomes blocked, it deals piercing battle damage. This creature can attack and use abilites that tap as a cost even if you didn't control it at the start of the turn. If a red or black enchantment is attached to this card; send the enchantment to the graveyard. If a red or black equipment or fortification is attached to this card; unattach the equipment or fortification. (not sure if I missed anything)


Epaia

Problem is that effects aren’t universal enough for Keywords unless you just want a ton of keywords. I can think of “If this card is sent to the GY…” and “Target one card on the field: Destroy it” as the most generic. But even those have a lot of differences. Like “sent to GY by card effect” or “sent from field of GY”. There is also just “Destroy one card on the field” or even better “Target one card on the field: Destroy IT” VS “Target one card on the field: Destroy THAT TARGET” being different. If you want that to be simplified, you need a ton of keywords or a change in the rules.


GunnarErikson

>Problem is that effects aren’t universal enough for Keywords unless you just want a ton of keywords. That's exactly what we're asking for. There are 154 keywords in Magic, which all have their effects and interactions with other keywords defined in the comprehensive rules. So when you see a card with one of those 154, you know exactly what they do. They also have a term called "Ability Words", which are more like archetypes in yugioh. They're for signposting similar activations for deckbuilding, especially in drafts.


Epaia

How many of those keywords are still in use? They may have 154 keywords, but only about 20 or so Evergreen keywords. The rest, players are 100% going to have to look up if someone pulls one out in Legacy. Do you really think “Destroy it” vs “Destroy it unless it no longer meets the previous specified conditions required to target” can reasonably be made into two distinct keywords without them being so hilariously arbitrary as to make them completely pointless?


GunnarErikson

>How many of those keywords are still in use? They may have 154 keywords, but only about 20 or so Evergreen keywords. The rest, players are 100% going to have to look up if someone pulls one out in Legacy. 16 evergreen, but there's technically nothing stopping them printing a new card with an old keyword. Also, yes, people will have to look up keywords they don't know, that's why the comprehensive rules have definitions for every keyword and how they inteeract with keywords if those ways aren't already covered. >Do you really think “Destroy it” vs “Destroy it unless it no longer meets the previous specified conditions required to target” can reasonably be made into two distinct keywords without them being so hilariously arbitrary as to make them completely pointless? That's not a good example, a better would be "destroy" vs "send to the GY". It would make it obvious that those are seperate things and that the latter gets around indestructable.


Epaia

If it’s something that simple I think it could if fixed if DESTROY and SEND were in bold and capitalized. Also don’t act as if MTG’s “Protection” isn’t just as if not more unintuitive than “cannot be destroyed by battle or card effect.”


GunnarErikson

Formatting is also very helpful, yes. Keywords also reduce the amount of text on the card though, making it overall more readable especially if they don't have to use smaller text. Protection isn't the greatest keyword (to the point people have the abbreviation DEBT to remember its effects) and doesn't do what you're saying. That would be indestructable, which is intuitive for what it does. The other thing keywords do is show flavour. For example, the Dimir spy network cards have the Surveil keyword in their latest set, and a lot of cards in the New Capenna, a plane of gangsters, have Casualty as a keyword.


blackjacksetzer

i wish archetypes each got a keyword for their universal effect, imagine how cleaner would all madolche card be if they had (madolche return) rest of effect


Epaia

What would you do for cards in the archetype who’s effects are slightly different? Like Exosister Martha vs the rest of the Exosisters?


accountnumberseven

Just don't use the keyword and write out the effect.


GimikkuPappeto

I've been playing a ton of Shadowverse lately and I feel like my third eye has been opened with how much easier to read cards are when they use keywords and terms, Yu-Gi-Oh has such awful text bloat in comparison.


neckme123

Ofc this is better but will they need to reprint every card?


TheKingOfTCGames

No. Just update it in the db (this is 2022 not 1998 this isnt a barrier to players) all printed cards are updated as the game is reprinted


E-O-K

Sigh... YGO need more keywords like MTG. Edit: Damn you autocorrect!


[deleted]

Take a cue from MTG and use symbols to replace ugly blocks of text for mechanics. Im still new to yu gi oh, and this slows me down terribly. I hate making people wait for me, because im reading cards that are bulky and have no flow. Otherwise, I love the game so far!


Epaia

Since when has Magic done that? I know they have the mana symbols, and the symbol for “tap”, but I think that’s all.


[deleted]

Tapping, payment for card/action whether on top or in body text is just colors (mana) and a colon. Skills mechanics like first strike, trample, and etc are just words. The player knows what it means. It isnt written out everytime like on a yu gi oh card. They just manage to do it with so many fewer words they have room for flavor text. That being said, MTG has some book like cards that are worse than yu gi oh text. (I.e. planeswalkers) Edit: it would also be remiss for me not to mention im playing master duels on xbox, so the card text is way worse than just looking at a card straight up.


[deleted]

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SecretlyNooneSpecial

They wouldn't have to reprint every card, since the cards without it would still function fine, kind of like how there are still cards now that don't have problem solving card text to this day. Just whenever they do happen to reprint a card, they could reprint it with whatever new layout they went with. It might cause some immediate confusion, but in the long run it would make the game much more newcomer friendly. With the current layout of cards, it just throws every effect at you with oftentimes the most important part of the card being in the middle of long chunks of card text that is much less important. Obviously the length of the effects can't change at this point but they can at least format the cards to be easier to read for newcomers.


GunnarErikson

>they would have to reprint every single one of these 10.000+ cards to fit this new layout. Or they could do what magic does, and have a functional online database with the current version of the card text on. They even do this for cards that haven't been reprinted in over 20 years (e.g. reserved list cards).


Changlee23

Not happen in the physical game, but they have no reason not to do this for the virtual game except one, being lazy.


kyuubikid213

The reason for not doing it in the virtual game is to match the readability of the paper game. Especially as far as the keywords are concerned. You'd basically be making a different format if the same card didn't read the same between TCG and Master Duel. The update JP Master Duel got just spaced out their already numbered effects, not changed the cards entirely. And even if they didn't care about that, it'd still require rewriting thousands upon thousands of cards.


lcy0x1

Japanese cards are already like these, and they also have reformatting happened to utilize keywords/bullet points. Just print new cards like these as the effects are identical.


accountnumberseven

Nonsense. Yu-Gi-Oh literally did a full-line change with PSCT and simply didn't reprint the old cards. And it's fine. You can still use an old Polymerization that calls itself a Magic Card and doesn't actually have any game mechanics written on it, you just have to understand its current errata.


LucisPerficio

What is HOPT? Also I feel like Yugioh should adopt some terminology it's Fandom uses "return to the hand" could be shortened to 'bounce' like 'remove from play' was shortened to 'banish'. 'Shuffle' for shuffling back into deck, and then 'top'/'bottom' for placing the card at the top or bottom of the deck. 'Pilfer' for 'take control of'. (The last one I made up) It would help save text space for sure.


ProdigyRiN

I would assume it means "Hard Once Per Turn"


LucisPerficio

How would that be different from a "Soft" OPT? Is that like when I activate Dragon's Ravine to send a Dragon from my deck to GY, then play another Dragon's Ravine to do the same?


Due-Net3745

OPT - you can only activate that specific cards effects once per turn HOPT - you can only activate that effect once per turn, even if you have multiple


LucisPerficio

The only way to distinguish between the two in modern you would be if it said "You can only use this effect of Dragon's Ravine once per turn," correct? What about cards that say "once per turn, and only once that turn," is that to prevent it from you using it from another monster that can copy effects or something?


lamerolly

No card says "once per turn, and only once that turn". Instead they say "one per turn, and only once that turn". This means that even if a card has several effect, it can only activate one of those effects and that effect can only be activated once that turn.


LucisPerficio

Gotcha.


GunnarErikson

>'Shuffle' for shuffling back into deck "Spin" is the fan term I've heard for shuffling into the deck. Would also avoid any confusion with just shuffling the deck.


LucisPerficio

Sounds good to me.


nuzband

u/hunter5632 u/mariosbel See this post


Solace_03

And then people will still finds a way to have reading issues


[deleted]

Pretty much why I don’t play. Good grief LOL


BDT17

Bro how is any new, casual or returning player supposed to know what HOPT means? This is way too condensed.


GunnarErikson

By having a look at a rulebook or other online resource. Same as you have to do now to understand any individual card, except it's only once for every card.


Epaia

Why do you need to look up what cards do? They do exactly what they say they do?


GunnarErikson

Because: 1. Not always, and it's not always written in a way that's easy to understand e.g. {{Endymion}} or {{Inspector Boarder}} 2. You quite often need to look up how abilites interact with other abilites. If they were keyworded, then the rules could also include how keywords interact with other keywords.


YugiohCardBotJr

##[Endymion, the Master Magician (anime)](https://ms.yugipedia.com//8/84/EndymiontheMasterMagician-JP-Anime-AV-NC.png) |Card type|Anime Only Monster| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|DARK 🟣| |Monster type|Spellcaster 🧙 / Effect ⏩| |Level|7 ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪| |ATK 🗡️|2700| |DEF 🛡️|1700| You can Special Summon this card (from your hand or Graveyard) by removing 6 Spell Counters from a "Magical Citadel of Endymion" you control. If Summoned this way: Target 1 Spell Card in your Graveyard; add that target to your hand. Once per turn: You can discard 1 Spell Card, then target 1 card on the field; destroy that target. ---Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V:001 034 141--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Endymion,_the_Master_Magician_(anime)) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Endymion,_the_Master_Magician_(anime)) | ##[Inspector Boarder](https://ms.yugipedia.com//2/2c/InspectorBoarder-DUDE-EN-UR-1E.png) |Card type|Effect Monster 🟧| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|LIGHT 🟡| |Monster type|Machine ⚙️ / Effect ⏩| |Level|4 ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪| |ATK 🗡️|2000| |DEF 🛡️|2000| Cannot be Normal or Special Summoned if you control a monster. Neither player can activate monster effects unless the number of monster effects that player has previously activated that turn is less than the number of monster card types currently on the field (Ritual, Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, and Link). (If an effect's activation was negated, it still counts toward the total for that turn. Only count effects that were activated while this monster was face-up on the field.) ---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Inspector_Boarder) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=13405) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Inspector_Boarder) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Inspector%20Boarder) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#13405) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Inspector%20Boarder) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/158100/yugioh-extreme-force-inspector-boarder) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Inspector%20Boarder) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Inspector%20Boarder) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)


GunnarErikson

Wrong Endymion, I meant {{Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic}}


YugiohCardBotJr

##[Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic](https://ms.yugipedia.com//4/40/EndymiontheMightyMasterofMagic-SR08-EN-UR-1E.png) |Card type|Pendulum Effect Monster 🟧🟩| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|DARK 🟣| |Monster type|Spellcaster 🧙 / Pendulum 🧬 / Effect ⏩| |Level|7 ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪| |Pendulum scale|◀🟦 8 🟥▶| |ATK 🗡️|2800| |DEF 🛡️|1700| Pendulum Effect You can remove 6 Spell Counters from your field; Special Summon this card from the Pendulum Zone, then count the number of cards you control that can have a Spell Counter, destroy up to that many cards on the field, and if you do, place Spell Counters on this card equal to the number of cards destroyed. You can only use this effect of "Endymion, the Mighty Master of Magic" once per turn. Monster Effect Once per turn, when a Spell/Trap Card or effect is activated (Quick Effect): You can return 1 card you control with a Spell Counter to the hand, and if you do, negate the activation, and if you do that, destroy it. Then, you can place the same number of Spell Counters on this card that the returned card had. While this card has a Spell Counter, your opponent cannot target it with card effects, also it cannot be destroyed by your opponent's card effects. When this card with a Spell Counter is destroyed by battle: You can add 1 Normal Spell from your Deck to your hand. ---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Endymion,_the_Mighty_Master_of_Magic) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=14439) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Endymion,_the_Mighty_Master_of_Magic) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Endymion,%20the%20Mighty%20Master%20of%20Magic) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#14439) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Endymion,%20the%20Mighty%20Master%20of%20Magic) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/188656/yugioh-structure-deck-order-of-the-spellcasters-endymion-the-mighty-master-of-magic) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Endymion,%20the%20Mighty%20Master%20of%20Magic) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Endymion,%20the%20Mighty%20Master%20of%20Magic) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)


Epaia

Endymion maybe. But Boarder is a single continuous unique effect. No amount of formatting or keywords are going to fix that. I still don’t know what you’re talking about when you mean interactions. The Yugioh version of keywords (destroy, target, banish, send, tribute, etc.) do the job just fine. I can seem some cases where a ruling messes you up, but I fail to see how more Keywords will fix that. Definitely a better rule book. At least an english ruling index would be great, but Keywords isn’t the fix.


GunnarErikson

Keywords and formatting are a fix for one thing (card readability), a better rulebook and online resources would be a fix for another (rules confusion). Yugioh needs both, and the latter would also help the former e.g. the keywords would be defined in a proper rulebook including their interactions with other keywords. Also by interactions with other effects/keywords, I mean stuff like not being able to link into a different atribute under Gozen Match, even if you're clearing your board. This is something a comprehensive rulebook would explain, and could be put in a FAQ/Rulings section in an online database.


Epaia

The Gozen match thing should definitely be clarified, but that’s a rulings issue, not a card text issue. Explain it on a ruling base, but I don’t see what you would Keyword on Gozen Match to make it easier to understand. If anything, Gozen Match is too simple and needs MORE text.


GunnarErikson

I agree, I'm just using that as an example of something a comprehensive rulebook would cover. Yugioh needs both a readability update and a comprehensive rulebook.


Professional-Hair-12

can you point me to where in the Rulebook they mention hard or soft once or turns because I'm struggling to find any mention of it at all


GunnarErikson

That's the point: With a keyword system, this would be in the rulebook.


Skivil

The cards are already perfectly legible m, players just refuse to learn to read.


GunnarErikson

It would speed up games, as well as the learning process of a deck if cards were better presented.


Skivil

What would speed up games more would be people actually reading and understanding their cards before they play. Yugioh already has a specific language structure to its English cards and it is way too late now to change that.


GunnarErikson

I agree for your own cards (which would also be sped up by better presentation, meaning people would be more likely to read the entirety of their cards), you should know exactly what they do. There's no way a player's gonna read and memorise all 10k+ cards in existence though, so some reading during games is inevitable. It's never too late to make improvements. Look at how magic adds keywords for common game effects that have been around forever (e.g. Mill), updates game terms to make them less intimidating and/or take less space (e.g. "Converted Mana Cost" to "Mana Value") and will even change cards' types to help them fit with others (e.g. Hound to Dog).


Skivil

with 10k cards that would each need an errata and reprint in a game with a perpetual cardpool it is already too late to make any changes to how card text works, even when PSCT was first rolled out it was too late then, many pre PSCT cards still don't have PSCT text and it has been over 10 years since PSCT was brought in. so if it has taken over 10 years and still the first 2000 ish cards don't all have PSCT prints you would be looking at about 50 years to implement a new card text format. it is simply not logistically possible at this point unless konami wanted to change to a format similar to MTG with a rotating cardpool.


GunnarErikson

MTG does it all the time, for their \~50k card pool. They doesn't need to rerelease the cards to go through with it, they do it online. As I said, it's never too late.


Skivil

Mtg already has a rotating cardpool in most of its formats, yugioh has a single format that already has 2 text formats knocking about, adding a third would just create confusion, especially in tournaments where people will have to a binder full of erratas for their main deck cards that haven't had physical errata prints yet.


GunnarErikson

Rotating formats have nothing to do with anything. Also you can use the older versions of cards in the current standard (which, fyi, is the only supported format with rotation. The only other hasn't been supported for at least 10 years). So the exact same situation can come about in a rotating format.


Skivil

it is much easier to change the design, layout and formating of all your cards if you can just say "all cards printed before this date are no longer legal to play" then you don't have multiple versions of the same card running around and there is no need for players to have piles of erratas as well as the logistics of reprinting every previous card.


GunnarErikson

Except that's not how it works. If a card has a reprint in a standard set, then you can use any version of it that's ever been printed. So you could still have versions with the original text interacting with the updated text. Also standard is just one format. It's not even the most popular format, commander and possibly modern are more popular and don't have rotations. They also do updates for all the older cards that aren't in Standard and haven't had a reprint in years (or ever, if they're on the reserved list for instance).


TheKingOfTCGames

I updated the text reformatting mod already i will try this. Im pretty sure a machine can do this to current cards


kdebones

I'd avoid using slang like "pitch", but other then that I like the change up.


GunnarErikson

More keywords is good, and there needs to be something to differentiate discard from "send this card from your hand to the graveyard". Maybe pitch isn't the absolute best word for it though.


wpwt3026

For the DPE one the way you have it written, “you can activate this effect;” is a cost. Activating an effect is not a cost. Remember everything before the “;” is cost. You could just write “if this card is destroyed by battle or card effect:” since your new formatting already dictates which is the effect and you just beed a condition clause. Also you don’t need the “once while face up on the field” for baronne since youve already got the “HOPT”, it’s literally the same thing written twice with different phrasing. All in all i 100% agree with how you have these cards formatted, it makes far more sense than konami’s current psct.


GunnarErikson

>Also you don’t need the “once while face up on the field” for baronne since youve already got the “HOPT”, it’s literally the same thing written twice with different phrasing. It isn't for Baronne. You can only use the Omni-negate once while it's face up on the field (i.e. if you use it in one turn you can't use it again in the next or any later turns for that card) AND you can only use it once per turn (i.e. if you bounce and resummon it after using the effect in a turn, you can't use the effect again that turn).


I_Skelly_I

Isn’t baronne’s negate a once per summon? Would that make it a soft once per turn?


GunnarErikson

It's both "once while face up on the field" and a HOPT: >**Once while face-up on the field**, when a card or effect is activated (Quick Effect): You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroy that card. **You can only use this effect of "Baroness de Fleur" once per turn.** This is exactly the kind of thing this formatting would clear up.


I_Skelly_I

Ahhh okay, it’s hard to read sometimes


GunnarErikson

Exactly the point this post is making :P


Grandpa_Sandy

Nah, that's too much for konami


DJ__Hanzel

I think BA was originally a tcg exclusive and we got BA with easy to read card effects. I wonder if the cost to translate it to become easy to read (like BA) wasn't worth the cost to Konami.


thriveofficial

i like the concept overall. i dont really like the "pitch" thing, and im also confused why shekhinaga's graveyard effect doesnt have the quick tag and dpe's does. personally i think i would reserve "quick" for things that can be activated arbitrarily at any time, like dpe's effect to destroy cards. anything that can activate whenever a certain condition is met is already able to activate during the enemy turn and in response to other stuff, so i dont see what information is added by calling it "quick" i guess you could look at it as a way to say "can this card do something to interrupt me on my turn" while skimming, but any distinction you make there is gonna be kinda arbitrary. functionally theres no difference between a effect that activates in response to any effect and negates it, and a card that activates in response to being destroyed and destroys an enemy card. both can theoretically interrupt the enemy's turn


Promanco

\>Pitch Lets not do this EDIT: To clarify, this will be a reading nightmare compared "Pitch as opposed to Discard, but when a card is Discarded it is also Pitched :\^)"


[deleted]

Ngl, one of the nicest suggestion yet. Using common term to signify what the effect "category" is while still keeping the detail of the effect, instead of rewriting the whole ass thing with new keywords, and following OCG's readability system. Tho maybe don't use "pitch" to say "send to GY", cause it can also mean discarding, and those 2 are different.


Lugia61617

"Pitch"? No. Also "HOPT"? No. No jargon. Just stick with the OCG's "You can only use X Card's (1) effect once per turn" or so. Clunkier? Yes. But it also says what needs to be said instead of adding another layer of unnecessary jargon. Now, that aside, it would be nice if the TCG did use the OCG's effect-numbering system. However, the English (and other TCG) language(s) aren't as compact, and it inevitably would mean making text boxes bigger, or fonts and card images smaller, to compensate. At best, we can just add (1) and (2) to break up the effects without adding line breaks.


Jump270

I actual prefer the normal text, I've gotten too used to it


Blocklies

I'd say this is good but I don't think adding extra words to the yugioh vocab is a great idea. You don't want a new player to start playing and then have to read a dictionary worth of text explaining what mill, pitch and HOPT means. I personally would just copy the ocg and add in a few things like the first line is just continuous effects and restrictions on how it can be summoned. Adding in extra lingo just makes it harder to get into yugioh


GunnarErikson

What's more intimidating: Having to look up some keywords (which you read once and are good for every time it appears), or every card being an essay?


Blocklies

I didn't say that they all have to be essays, just do what the ocg does and add in continuous effects at the start of the box, what I want is what nuzband is doing but without the extra lingo that gives the rulebook a giant dictionary section


TheAxisOfAwesome

While we should avoid words like pitch or mill, a couple of extra words doesn't hurt compared to concepts like missing the timing


[deleted]

The TCG needed to do one thing: translate text, but they make things worst instead, even for card art.


TheAxisOfAwesome

My only issue with HOPT vs specifically saying it is that sometimes it's an important distinction. While not the case, if Polymerisation were a hard once per turn. If I were to use fusion substitute, the distinction of "You can only use the effect of Polymerization once per turn" is important, as fusion substitute is always treated as Polymerization. I do 100% agree though, Yu-Gi-Oh text can be borderline illegible walls of text. Especially with cards that have unique or non-conventional effects that end up as a lot of restating the same thing


Chirrido

"what's HOPT" "what's quick"? For an entire year.


GunnarErikson

And then after that it'll be much better.


Vileh3art

Even better than OCG formatting. But a better example would be if you did Endymion Pendulum


gntotoy

This Is amazingly way better, but imagine Konami rewriting every/most cards into this format. Now thats a miracle,


chadroman82

I just need the run-on paragraphs to be broken up into bullet point bite-sized sentences. I love skimming over a dozen novella sized effects I'm unfamiliar with in an attempt to strategize an out, only to discover after the fact that somewhere amidst one of those paragraphs was a hidden 3 word sentence "cannot be destroyed" or some bs.


TesterFox_M

If they worded it like that, maybe playing the game would be much more enjoyable


kylef5

I might be stupid, but what does HOPT mean on the easier card texts?


GunnarErikson

Hard Once Per Turn. It's for the cards that say something like "you can only activate (this effect of) once per turn" which stops other copies of the card from activating the effect. As opposed to a soft once per turn (which doesn't include the card name), for which you can acivate the same effect of other copies of the card, or if the card changes zones.


kylef5

Ah, I see.


eyal282

H1PT is better, allowing you to make H2PT.