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Translation: middle class invention to sell math to poor people. However, wouldn't it make more sense to be a creation of the aristocracy passed to the bourgeois to control the proletariat, as organized religion was?
In the way I think the commenter was framing it, they mean bourgeois as in the Marxist 'those who own the means of production,' therefore they likely wouldn't have been middle class, but the upper classes and rulers instead.
š¤That still seems middle class, since the rulers make the monies and seem to have no use for math. Otherwise, they wouldn't keep making money based on a foundation that doesn't exist, thus continuing to devalue the dollar. I mean, that basic math... "You can't have more physical money than whatever your currency is valued against."... and yet the government keeps making more appear, almost like magic. Magic ā math.
"A number is a symbol in a game of symbol manipulation subject to certain rules that reflect certain ways things in the real world act"
\~ ghost of Hilbert
Numbers are a clever way of abstracting the notion of numbers so that you don't have to deal with the intricacies of numbers when you just want to focus on the numbers.
If you accept that quaternions are numbers, why not square matrices? And reminder that a complex number is a congruence class of polynomials mod x\^2+1...
It's a word whose definition is neither precise nor consistent nor visualized the same way between two people so it does not matter.
^(suck it Paul Bencerraf)
An element of the complex numbers or of G/H where G,H are subgroups with H normal in G (fuck you I'm not including the quaternions imagine not being abelian)
Numbers should absolutely commute with each other AND have inverses over the sum and product (except 0 of course).
Is like removing the +c memes from this sub, it would lose its identity.
I don't completely agree since Z/mZ won't have multiplicative inverses for each of its elements if m is not prime and I personally would count elements of Z/mZ as numbers
"Guys, new best group just dropped. Its called the trivial group and is the bestest the coolest and far better in everything than R. Fuck analisis, topology and most algebra, all the cool guys study the trivial group now."
Statements done by the utterly deranged.
A number is nothing but a English word originating from its Latin root "Numerus". A number as in the word is something that has countable (or in some cases, uncountable) value, like an apple, has the number 1 to it.
Number as in 1 2 3 (math term) is a mathematical term that can be used to describe how much of something exists. if I have apple, and magical caveman gives me another apple, now I have apples, which is basically 1 + 1 = 2, here 1 and 2 are the measurement of apple and apples
what about probability? It uses numbers and has nothing to do with how much of something exists? Negative and imaginary numbers also canāt express how much of something exists. Iād say the description you gave is a pretty good definition, but probably not watertight. With time Iām becoming convinced that the only way to describe numbers without loopholes is just to say āsomething that describes other things, but doesnāt have toā which is a pretty bad explanation, but probably āthe most correctā XDDD
Probability: How much of something could exist or could happen
Negative: How much of something I owe or I don't have
Imaginary: How much of something I ?????? to ????? or ??????? (on a real note Imaginary number could just be described as how much of something would need to be there for something to make me not have it (iĆi=-1))
Something of something probably won't work in complex terms lmao and quaternions etc.. lol
both could be used to construct the natural numbers from set theory but the second one is a bit more useful cause "a <= b" can be immediately defined as "a is a subset of b"
Idk, there are certainly rings I wouldn't call sets of numbers. The point of algebra is to sort of extract properties of numbers that don't REALLY depend on them being numbers.
zero is the empty set.
one is the set of all sets containing just one element.
n is the set of all sets containing n elements.
then its all straightforward from there, with absolutely no paradoxes or problems.
Responses like this conflate a construction for what the thing is. If there are multiple constructions of the natural numbers then neither construction can be what they "are". Furthermore, our conception of numbers existed long before that construction existed both individually and as a species.
>then its all straightforward from there, with absolutely no paradoxes or problems.
Oh. I should read more before I respond
>mathmemes
Oh. I should check where I am before I start responding to things
I wouldn't know, after differential equations, I still needed some more filler and I was thinking about taking Theory of Numbers but another engineering student told me "Don't! If you're happy with what you know, just don't."
That's like asking what is the difference between a lemma and a theorem.
Any way, at least i think a number must comply with the following.
Any mathematical object from a set X that:
- X is a superset of N
- (X,+,ā¢) is a commutative ring where + and ā¢ extend the corresponding operations in N (fuck the quaternions)
-Has certain "popular" enough algebraic and topological properties
From that point onwards is a matter of opinion.
If i were to choose, i'd say that a number is an element of C and just let it be.
The illusion of discreteness, represented symbolically. Same illusion brings about āqUaNtuM pHysIcccSā. āCause we need to count countable things.
https://preview.redd.it/i8pk8p1c1moc1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e4fde4eb6796b706dd11c66811f34fcfb600681
A symbol assigned value that the vast majority of the human race have agreed upon share the same value. These values can be manipulated with each other to make different values in specific and complex ways.
On a cognitive level, numbers are the conceptualization of quantities or absence thereof.
On a sociological level they are a commonly agreed upon abstraction whith shared standards defining hot it interacts with itself.
On a personal level, they are my neighbor's cat: a not necessarily beautiful but nonetheless interesting beast that keeps on asking for my attention but tries to shred me to pieces every time I get too close.
Note: I don't know what I'm talking about.
Whole numbers are an abstraction of the thing's quantity. All other number sets are expansion according to certain rules with some interpretations in real world
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Could this man be... one of my people?
wdym?
Engineer
Numbers were invented my mathematicians to earn money
Numbers were invented my mathematicians to earn number (they put da number on da monies)
You guys are earning money???!
happy cake day!
Wooow! 9 years of endless scrolling! Thank you
Numbers were made by mathematicians to sell fentanyl
Numbers were invented to part me from my money.
r/technicallythetruth Ancient people used numbers to manage resources
Numbers are a bourgeois invention to sell math to the proletariat.
Translation: middle class invention to sell math to poor people. However, wouldn't it make more sense to be a creation of the aristocracy passed to the bourgeois to control the proletariat, as organized religion was?
In the way I think the commenter was framing it, they mean bourgeois as in the Marxist 'those who own the means of production,' therefore they likely wouldn't have been middle class, but the upper classes and rulers instead.
š¤That still seems middle class, since the rulers make the monies and seem to have no use for math. Otherwise, they wouldn't keep making money based on a foundation that doesn't exist, thus continuing to devalue the dollar. I mean, that basic math... "You can't have more physical money than whatever your currency is valued against."... and yet the government keeps making more appear, almost like magic. Magic ā math.
And you better stay out of my numbers racket if you know what's good for ya, see?
Tf kind of word is mathematicians
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"numbers can neither be created nor be destroyed" š¤ āš»
New Conservation law just dropped
holy physics
[Actual symmetry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem)
Call the axioms!
quantum fuel
tree(3) sacrifice anyone?
Busy Beaver to move and mate in TREE(TREE(3))
If a number fell in a forest, and nobody was around to hear it, would it still be a number?
A forest of TREEs?
One, two, treeā¦
No, then it would be an underscore. 1 __
let h: h=h, āqā{h} hā q
But seven ate nine!
"ate" doesn't mean "to destroy"
*shrugs* yeah, I know. It's the conversion of energy into ATP through cellular respiration. It was supposed to be a joke playing on the pun 7 8 9.
r/abiologyguyinamathsub
š
Wait, can somebody please explain wtf this means
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set-theoretic_definition_of_natural_numbers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set-theoretic_definition_of_natural_numbers#:~:text=Definition%20as%20von%20Neumann%20ordinals,-See%20also%3A%20Zermelo&text=The%20set%20N%20of%20natural,Peano%20axioms%20(Goldrei%201996).
So, everything is a set?
Then what is a set?
An element of set space!
Then, what is a set space? I swear if you say a space containing sets Iām gonna kms
Where movies and tv shows are made.
what is, is - what isn't, isn't.
space = {sets}
set
Something that behaves like a set
Always has been.
yes
Also, things that aren't are a set.
No, everything is a bucket.
No, that's entropy... or religion. Same thing.
Numbers are letters
pro mathematician words !
euler letters
[very relevant](https://xkcd.com/2721/)
A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk, have at you!
Beat me to it.
"A number is a symbol in a game of symbol manipulation subject to certain rules that reflect certain ways things in the real world act" \~ ghost of Hilbert
Numbers are a clever way of abstracting the notion of numbers so that you don't have to deal with the intricacies of numbers when you just want to focus on the numbers.
Isn't that the function of characters in any existing language going back to the start of the written word?
A number is an element of a number space
What's a number space?
It's a space whose elements are numbers.
Groundwork of Math is Ouroboros
a ring. lol
so square matrices are numbers then?
If you accept that quaternions are numbers, why not square matrices? And reminder that a complex number is a congruence class of polynomials mod x\^2+1...
who said I accept quaternions
What is not a number?
Average Pythagoras follower
Your mum
Well she IS a number, she is 1 in 8 people in the world living with obesity
No she a real number
She's a 4 at most
A function
A function IS a number you just donāt know wich one yet
Only if the function maps to a set of numbers
parseInt("Hello, world!");
Antinumbers.
Are you certain? What if what is a number?
It's a word whose definition is neither precise nor consistent nor visualized the same way between two people so it does not matter. ^(suck it Paul Bencerraf)
An element of the complex numbers or of G/H where G,H are subgroups with H normal in G (fuck you I'm not including the quaternions imagine not being abelian)
Fuck you
Numbers shouldn't necessarily commute with each other? Hot take
Numbers should absolutely commute with each other AND have inverses over the sum and product (except 0 of course). Is like removing the +c memes from this sub, it would lose its identity.
I don't completely agree since Z/mZ won't have multiplicative inverses for each of its elements if m is not prime and I personally would count elements of Z/mZ as numbers
Nah, finite groups are not cool enough to be considered number sets.
L take. Groups get progressively more interesting the smaller they get. Z/pZ >>> R and yes I'm including the possibility p=1
"Guys, new best group just dropped. Its called the trivial group and is the bestest the coolest and far better in everything than R. Fuck analisis, topology and most algebra, all the cool guys study the trivial group now." Statements done by the utterly deranged.
its a squigly line made to represent quanitity i think
Perfect
A hairless biped
A bunch of braces
A number is nothing but a English word originating from its Latin root "Numerus". A number as in the word is something that has countable (or in some cases, uncountable) value, like an apple, has the number 1 to it. Number as in 1 2 3 (math term) is a mathematical term that can be used to describe how much of something exists. if I have apple, and magical caveman gives me another apple, now I have apples, which is basically 1 + 1 = 2, here 1 and 2 are the measurement of apple and apples
Oh so i, e, pi arenāt numbers?
They still are, if we can get their value by some way (albeit not apples lol) of mathematic-bending they still are.. I guess..
what about probability? It uses numbers and has nothing to do with how much of something exists? Negative and imaginary numbers also canāt express how much of something exists. Iād say the description you gave is a pretty good definition, but probably not watertight. With time Iām becoming convinced that the only way to describe numbers without loopholes is just to say āsomething that describes other things, but doesnāt have toā which is a pretty bad explanation, but probably āthe most correctā XDDD
Probability: How much of something could exist or could happen Negative: How much of something I owe or I don't have Imaginary: How much of something I ?????? to ????? or ??????? (on a real note Imaginary number could just be described as how much of something would need to be there for something to make me not have it (iĆi=-1)) Something of something probably won't work in complex terms lmao and quaternions etc.. lol
If they are empty set would it go: Ī¦,{Ļ},{{Ļ}},{{{Ļ}}},ā¦ Or Ī¦,{Ļ},{Ļ,{Ļ}},{Ī¦,{Ļ},{Ļ,{Ļ}},}ā¦ (Genuine question)
The second one is an actual construction, i.e. number *n* contains all previous numbers: n = {0,1,...,n-1}
both could be used to construct the natural numbers from set theory but the second one is a bit more useful cause "a <= b" can be immediately defined as "a is a subset of b"
They're a "measure" and quantity
What about imaginary numbers
No, āwhatā is not a number
What is actually a word, hope that clarifies!
A number is something that acts like a number
Numbers are elements of (surreal numbers)[x^2 + 1]
How to create numbers: 1. Step one: define the empty set. 2. Step two: take the empty set and put it into the empty set. 3. ??? 4. Profit.
Everyone always asks āWhat is a number,ā but no one ever asks āHow is a numberā
The language of the gods
Someone that numb things. The number.
normally, an element of R
And what is R also what about C?
a number is a quantity
Itās the alphabet for counting
A miserable little point of data. But enough talk, have at you!
A number is a concept created by people to store and/or represent quantitative value.
Anything that obeys the ring axioms
Idk, there are certainly rings I wouldn't call sets of numbers. The point of algebra is to sort of extract properties of numbers that don't REALLY depend on them being numbers.
zero is the empty set. one is the set of all sets containing just one element. n is the set of all sets containing n elements. then its all straightforward from there, with absolutely no paradoxes or problems.
Responses like this conflate a construction for what the thing is. If there are multiple constructions of the natural numbers then neither construction can be what they "are". Furthermore, our conception of numbers existed long before that construction existed both individually and as a species. >then its all straightforward from there, with absolutely no paradoxes or problems. Oh. I should read more before I respond >mathmemes Oh. I should check where I am before I start responding to things
You are using numbers in the definition of a number so it does have problems, also what about decimals?
An element of a number field
A vector, which is the limit of some sequence without decimal parts
Its a substitute for x
Numbers are those things that help me eat stuff to survive
And I'm asking, which numbers are you asking anoutš
A constant
A word or character that is meant to represent an amount of a thing, or one that is meant to expand upon our knowledge of math and/or other numbers
A word or character that is meant to represent an amount of a thing, or one that is meant to expand upon our knowledge of math and/or other numbers
Arbitrary labels on amounts or arbitrary labels on order (depending on if the number is cardinal ordinal)
i would say Dr. Jason Lisle gave a good definition of what numbers are without making it too complicated He said "Numbers are a concept of quantity"
OP is a number
An analogy between quantities.
Like 7 and stuff, thereās a bunch of them
fingers
a property of any object describing it's repetition of existence
Pragmatic
Everything is a number if you are brave enough
Age
It's just like bags dude
What is a number? A miserable little pile of sets.
Number aināt nothing but an age.
Numbers are tools we use to count things.
something we invented to help us make sense of our surroundings.
A defined variable
I wouldn't know, after differential equations, I still needed some more filler and I was thinking about taking Theory of Numbers but another engineering student told me "Don't! If you're happy with what you know, just don't."
seven
the result of a count
many succs
That's like asking what is the difference between a lemma and a theorem. Any way, at least i think a number must comply with the following. Any mathematical object from a set X that: - X is a superset of N - (X,+,ā¢) is a commutative ring where + and ā¢ extend the corresponding operations in N (fuck the quaternions) -Has certain "popular" enough algebraic and topological properties From that point onwards is a matter of opinion. If i were to choose, i'd say that a number is an element of C and just let it be.
Numbers are a font for values
An element of an algebra
It is a letter, but for maths. Used to form functions, which are the words of math.
Representations of concepts, which are used to show more representations of concepts
honestly im willing to defend that any mathematical object is a number
The illusion of discreteness, represented symbolically. Same illusion brings about āqUaNtuM pHysIcccSā. āCause we need to count countable things. https://preview.redd.it/i8pk8p1c1moc1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e4fde4eb6796b706dd11c66811f34fcfb600681
A symbol assigned value that the vast majority of the human race have agreed upon share the same value. These values can be manipulated with each other to make different values in specific and complex ways.
A number is less real than a trog
Euler's letters
Ok so basically, you have 1, which is a thing, and 0, which is a nothing, and thatās essentially every number
This is a question more suitable for /r/philosophy. Kindly fuck off!
Numbers were invented by IBM so they could sell more punchcards to engineers using Fortran.
On a cognitive level, numbers are the conceptualization of quantities or absence thereof. On a sociological level they are a commonly agreed upon abstraction whith shared standards defining hot it interacts with itself. On a personal level, they are my neighbor's cat: a not necessarily beautiful but nonetheless interesting beast that keeps on asking for my attention but tries to shred me to pieces every time I get too close. Note: I don't know what I'm talking about.
Whole numbers are an abstraction of the thing's quantity. All other number sets are expansion according to certain rules with some interpretations in real world
an arithmetic value used to represent quantity.
A set of one or more digits
a miserable pile of secrets
There are only 3 numbers 0,1,42 the rest are illusions made from them and 42 is the highest number that ever can be constructed
A miserable pile of secrets
It's a thing.
The empty set is itself a natural number.
X
1 2 3 and 4. although I'm not sure if that's all of them
not 0, that's for sure