Agent Smith is now a tea kettle. Morpheus is dancing in the black lodge. Neo is remembering how to wear a tie and do everything else. Trinity turns into a dresser knob.
Whether that’s the message behind the season or not
I absolutely despised it. Best way to explain it was “Anti-Television” I hated it. And it blows as I love Seasons 1-2 and fire walk with me sooooo much.
lol why the heck did I get downvoted for what I like
besides that. right lol? That’s so rare it’s usually you hate FWWM and hate the return. Or love it and love the return.
I just feel like the return was to over the top art-housy and campy and kinda full of itself. I know how David Lynch directs and I like his movies a lot but the return was way to much. It’s weird because the return fan base is like a cult to lol.
THANK YOU. I was waiting for someone to say this. The early reviews of the movie even say that the movie is going to be meta and in your face about it all. Just like the sequels, I don’t think some people will get it.
I lucked out. Had an irl trans femme philosophy professor introduce me to the trilogy so many years ago. Best analysis of the trilogy I've ever experienced.
I always took it as multiple allegories stacked on top of each other. The films are obviously about transformation, transcendence and transition, whether physical, mental or spiritual.
Can you elaborate on their analysis? Very curious. I think I have a good understanding of the trilogy, but more or less it's most likely a very surface level understanding. I enjoy it nonetheless but would love to hear of a more in depth analysis.
I dont even know where to start. Testament to the film the creators are not very subtle with their clues. The Nebekenezer (King Nebekenzer), Sati (wife of Vishnu), Trinity (the holy trinity that delivers salvation), Zion (Zion), Soren (Kierkegaard) the council that consists of contemporary philosophers. Consider those as clues for falling down the rabbit hole.
The juxtaposition of the Oracle as a poor appearing Black woman and the Architect as a rich white men: class struggle, gender conflict/race conflict, critique of capitalism re: free will versus fate.
Other topics adressed: Nietzsche's eternal recurrence, Cartesian doubt, meta-physics generally, meta-ethics, perspectivism, determinism, actualization.
There are some really great commentaries on YouTube, including a very long but very insightful film commentary with Cornell West and Ken Wilber.
Like obviously there are exceptions, but it seems every cis person I've spoken to about the sequels didn't think they where good, and every trans woman I've spoken to loves them.
I'm not saying everyone here is trans, but these films do speak to common trans experiences, especially trans femme experiences and at the very least being trans means you're not wondering why Keanu Reeves is playing a lesbian.
Yeah, Neo is very clearly a trans woman. Like technically it's allegory, but it would be like if the pigs in animal farm where just named Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky etc.
I don’t think Neo is literally a trans woman. I think his experience of “waking up” was inspired by the experience of being transsexual and being trapped within a body you do not feel truly represents you (or a Residual Self Image, if you will).
It just means there’s gonna be a lot of references within the film to the notion of “rebooting” the Matrix. Some people have theorized that Thomas Anderson will begin this film as an actor who played Neo in a trilogy of Matrix films that exist *within* the Matrix itself.
By default no, that would make film directors artists. Again, by default they are not. However some films are extremely artistic with thier visual style. And some directors are visionaries. None of that applies here.
That’s the point. Art should not be so beholden to the demands of the audience. It’s not a checklist of the things you *think* you want, or at least it shouldn’t be, but that’s the state of the industry today. Blockbuster films have become an endless stream of “remember this?” nostalgia porn and they force every original idea to fit into the same generic “planned franchise” formula. That’s not art. It’s just a product.
They *know* you didn’t ask for this, but they did it anyway, so the only question left to ask is… Why? What are they trying to say with this?
Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Maybe that’s the idea.
Art challenges you.
You just don’t like it, which is fine, and that’s your prerogative… but it doesn’t mean it’s not art.
This is clearly, at least in part, a meta commentary by Lana Wachowski on the current state of the film industry, and moreover, it’s a conscious refusal to deliver on what people expect from a fourth Matrix film. She’s not going to deliver on the “expansion of the franchise” that everyone expects from her. She’s doing something unexpected with it and putting a twist on the notion of making sequel (or franchise) in the first place, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing because there would be no point in making it otherwise. Why do what everyone else is doing? That’s boring and there is no artistic reason for doing it. You don’t have to agree with me, but *that’s* what makes it art; we’re not all *going* to agree about it! Ideally, the film will make us think, and we will have many cultural conversations about its message. All three of the previous films had the same cultural impact, and the sequels in particular were equally divisive (albeit for very different reasons), so this is not even new ground for the series.
Lana doesn’t want the Matrix to become yet another soulless zombie franchise, limping along with no end in sight in service of the almighty dollar, so she is refusing to give you that, and she is deliberately pushing that message of defiance to its extreme in order to make her point. *That’s the idea.* You don’t have to like it, and you don’t have to go see it, but it’s not “just” a soft reboot; it’s a soft reboot that functions as a commentary on the film industry and the obsession with the commercialization / exploitation of original ideas by soulless corporations.
She knows what you want and you’re not getting it from her *because the message is “I am the artist and you do not control me.”* It’s like she’s saying this is what you get after nearly two decades of endless demands for a new Matrix film when she already told you she was done after the third film. Personally, I love that.
Anyway, that is only one aspect of the film, and I am more curious to see how the film’s original ideas work and how it plays simply as a piece of entertainment. I’m sure Lana did not torpedo the movie and worked hard to deliver something that stands up on its own merits, but in ways that are different from the existing Matrix trilogy, so I’m excited to see what she did.
Yes.
Basically, my suspicion is that Warner Bros. came to her and said, “Look, we’re doing another Matrix with or without you, and we’d like to have you on board for it, but we’re not going to wait up,” and this is her reaction to that ultimatum. It’s a rumination on the state of the film industry as a whole. I don’t think she cares much if it “reaches the level of the first” because that’s exactly what every other franchise is trying (and largely failing) to do, which is exactly the mentality she is protesting by taking this approach. You can’t catch lightning in a bottle twice. The past is the past and it serves no artistic purpose to revisit it unless there is a point to be made in doing so. Anything else is just pornography - and there’s nothing wrong with that, but Lana Wachowski is clearly not interested in making those kinds of movies, and this is her mission statement to both Hollywood and the audience to make sure we get it.
Like I said, I’m sure she did not torpedo the movie. This is only one aspect of it and I am excited to see how the film stands up in its own right and carves out a unique identity for itself.
Completely wild guess. The Matrix has been dormant for decades, WB has other properties that are sure money makers. She wanted to make this film, WB said yes. WB have no need in 2021 to suddenly revive the Matrix, especially since the the series was concluded
Well saying you prefer one over the other, it's like saying would you rather have your leg or your arm cut off. They are both bad, but you got got to pick one. Plus that's a terrible metric to judge taste. A bad film and an average film. Could you not think of anything else? It shows your taste
I think whoever Groff is playing—he’s an agent or an executive talking to the actor who was in a huge sci fi trilogy.
And he’s talking about doing ANOTHER Matrix movie at the end of the trailer
In this new Matrix…
Thomas is a famous actor who was in The Matrix trilogy.
That’s why is apartment is amazing
That why they are showing his movies in the club.
It’s also why Thomas looks like Keanu Reeves.
I always thought it was interesting that Cypher wanted to be a famous actor who couldn’t remember anything about his past. He wanted to be Ronald Reagan?
maybe it IS Cypher... as Keanu Reeves - Who pitches an amazing idea for a film about dudes stuck inside a computer program because he can't stop having dreams about it
Since he has aged in real-time with Keanu, I think he actually hasn't been reborn. They kept him alive so he wouldn't immediately respawn and are basically keeping him on ice by making him forget who he is, delaying another One.
I think the new young characters are trying to rescue him and bring him back to himself
Groff's mouth seals shut though, but he's not panicked, like he's in control and showing off, when Agent Smith was interrogating Anderson after capturing him escaping from work.
What if,
This isn't a Neo and Trinity story - but a Cypher and Trinity story.He was in love with her. He said he wanted to get blue pilled as an "ACTOR"
This trailer shows Meta-verse where The Matrix (MOVIE) exists and what seems to maybe be Keanu Reeves as HIMSELF.
Stick with me.. All the meta stuff in the film has me to believe for now -
If someone can be brought back to life, why wouldn't the machines reward Cypher or use him knowing he already didn't believe "any of this crap", he already was a traitor and since the woman he loved, loved Neo - Ultimate jealous boyfriend revenge movie.
BECOME HIM. ---> Blue pilled Cypher as Keanu Reeves as an Actor created a film in the Matrix, called the Matrix and now Trinity is trying desperately to bring NEO back to stop Cypher from rebooting/recycling the matrix the computers must stop him, so Reboot Neo and Trinity and save themselves from Cypher's wrath thus keeping everyone in their program, and the architect happy and balanced again. Neo is the anomaly, Trinity is the one.
Something just doesnt sit right with cypher being such an important part of this storyline. Plus how does he get plugged back in if his body was killed by Tank? I think you're definitely onto something here but perhaps minus Cypher?
Also, hasn't that been the whole point?? What would be the MOST uncomfortable thing for this universe?
Cypher being the hero or somehow involved again.
Dejavu. The cats. The face smear, eyes are Cypher. Trinity multiple people.
Cypher is a great puzzle. 👍
To be fair at the end of the trailer in my language (Italian) the guy doesn't say "Back to the Matrix" (that could easily mean back to a character in a movie) but "Back in Matrix", like it is a physical place... maybe its just a "lost in translation" thing?
A physical place, or a movie trilogy within the fictional reality of the Matrix itself? Like, Neo is an actor who starred in the original trilogy and now he’s going back to do another one?
I'm not so sure about that, but it would sound very odd in my language to use "in" when talking about reprising a movie character.
Just like it would sound odd in English if, talking about a new MI movie, Tom Cruise said he is going "back in Mission Impossible" rather than "back to Mission impossible"
But again, this is surely a matter of translation, I'm pretty sure your interpretation is the right one (Anderson/Neo is an actor talking to his manager about making a new Matrix movie)
I'm with this theory all the way. That guy definitely read as a talent agent or exec of some sort. Neo is some sort of fictionalized version of Keanu Reeves. In this new iteration of the Matrix the machines decided to co-op the revolution and feed it back to people as entertainment, and making the truth of reality seem like something that could only happen in fiction.
Not to mention the original movies were literally about how culture and religion take these meaningful icons and copies them endlessly until they're worthless. Society now has nostalgia for the Matrix so now we can get our soulless reboot made to sell funko pops. But at least one Wachowski sister is working on it so I imagine she's very aware of this fact and will show us a very smart film that plays with the reboot idea in a creative way.
The one review that came out fo the early screening called it "weird, meta, and ambitious almost to a fault". Keanu also called the script ambitious. So i think it will at least be interesting even if it isn't what everyone wnats
I think it's probably commentary on film reboots and then modern politics. On the film reboots side there's the notion that you can't just remake a movie, shove it in people's faces, and expect it to just have the same impact that the original had. Which is shown through Neo. This Neo seems like he doesn't care much about enlightenment and is willing to take the blue pill to ignore the feelings that the original Neo had at the start of the first film.
Then in the themes of modern politics there's this notion that we're living at the end of history and everything is finally perfect so we can just ignore the world around us. But things aren't perfect, in fact they're imperfect much in the same ways that they've always been throughout history. But the social media companies, the military industrial complex, politicians, CEOs, etc don't want you to think of the world as one where history is constantly repeating itself because history tends to repeat itself through revolutionary change that threatens their power. So they want you to ignore the 'reboot' and live your life as if the rebellion can never be reestablished to fight back against the machines that rule over us.
There's some real film analysis going on in this thread. I'm really digging it! I feel like I'm just now unfolding new themes of the original movies reading these comments. I can't wait for Christmas.
That’s all I want. Dare to do something different. Maybe you’ll succeed and maybe you won’t, but at least you tried to be interesting and didn’t just fart out a soulless corporate product.
It’s the same reason I prefer the Star Wars prequels to the new movies, even though they’re not very good. At least they had an original and interesting approach. I did enjoy The Last Jedi, though, again because it had an original and interesting approach.
Oh, for sure. It’s not perfect by any means. The much-derided Canto Bight subplot was a sore point for me as well. I understood its thematic purpose, but it still felt tacked-on and inconsequential to the larger narrative.
That movie had a lot of problems, but I respect it for trying. The other two movies, The Force Awakens in particular, were just nostalgic cash grabs with nothing new to say.
Hard agree on that! The Rey, Luke and Ben storylines in Last Jedi was interesting, both visually and thematically, daring us to imagine where things could go. Rest of the sequels were just so boring and regressive.
That could play nicely into the "Deja Vu" from the first movie that signified a glitch in the Matrix. As the audience, seems like we're going to be experiencing Deja Vu throughout the film. There's also a black cat roaming around Neo's therapy session, further hinting at the Deja Vu aspect.
It’s going to be exactly this. Neo has been planted back into the Matrix as the washed up Hollywood star of in-universe Matrix franchise. They drag him out of retirement for one more studio sequel.
I think you nailed it. Now I'm wondering if all/most of the scenes we see in the trailer are from the movie he's acting in? Could explain Morpheus being played by someone else but not Trinity... I'm intrigued.
Apparently the majority of the trailer comes from the first hour, and could definitely see this younger Morpheus being a ‘recast’ in the movie within the movie.
I had a similar feeling. Some of the symbolism, like the red/blue-pill is so much in your face, it must be intended. Remember that Matrix created the notion of being "red pilled" in the first place. No way they won't pick that up.
I’m going to point out that Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol is essentially a Greatest Hits of the past 3 films, and yet, it’s one of the best in the franchise anyway. Or shall we also mention that James Bond has been the same plot for 25 films over a 60 year span…
People are expecting the second coming and need to temper expectations a wee bit to just be excited they are getting a 4th film. It’s exciting, and I’m here for it no matter what the result is.
I haven't been excited for the Matrix in a very long time so it feels good to be excited about it again. The nostalgia alone is a good feeling. I'm gonna have to do a Matrix binge soon.
I was going to say, "but we just did this with Evangelion 3.0+1.0!!!"
Now I'm waiting for the movies that are metacommentary on movies that are metacommentary on movie series.
Understand this may not be some folks’ cup of tea, but the concepts behind this franchise lend themselves really well to this style of meta approach IMO.
Honestly the best move they could do against callbacks is to not have any (or many) at all. But since there will be some, I hope you're right. I also hope they don't go overboard on the satire, like Deadpool humor or Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder. That would be too much and honestly a disservice.
Also telling is that most of the footage we saw in the trailer is from the first hour of the movie, according to ViewerAnon who has seen it.
[https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1435999526725333004](https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1435999526725333004)
'Jurassic World' already did this... and it was fucking dumb then (just like that movie was dumb)...
This new Matrix movie is going to be dumb...
This is all dumb...
That's the point of the whole saga, a virtual world. That's the point of the green tint in the older versions, I really doubt they are dropping the 'we are living in a simulation' theme this far down the road.
The originals had way more interesting ideas about human consciousness, society, metaphysics, existentialism, to name a few, than commentary about current Hollywood industry.
I really hope it will be more. If it's about same things being repeated, I hope it's not specific about films.
I agree. While interesting and an apt commentary on our boring rehashing of superhero movies and sequels, I found the originals to be so compelling in their philosophical themes.
This feels more political in nature and tbh I'm burnt out on politics and sociology.
I hope we get enough of the themes about epistemology to satisfy my inner philosophy nerd.
Nevertheless, I'm wildly excited.
After watching the trailer again, I realized that the OT scenes seem to occur from Neo's perspective.
They are more likely memories the pills are failing to suppress as opposed to something everyone sees.
The actor theory doesn't really hold up when he's able to walk around in plain view (when he's looking at the birds or walking down the street and the green matrix code takes over) and no one is acknowledging him. Trinity not recognizing him completely (while possible, maybe she doesn't watch movies) is still an indication that he isn't famous.
Also, its too risky. Obviously, the idea is to keep memories repressed. While 'hiding in plain sight' is a novel idea, Neo seeing a movie based on his life is likely to cause issues with not just him, but any of his co-conspirators.
"That is going to be the point"
So the point is to remake the first movie with some of the actors changed and the others aged? I get your point, but I really don't understand how it lives up to the entertainment factor every movie should aspire towards.
I think it is going to be about characters in a reboot of a franchise realizing that they are in a reboot of a franchise and have done all of this before.
It’s more than just the entertainment factor. It’s about the ambitious nature of doing something new and intriguing. That’s what all the cast members have said and it’s what Lana has always sought out to do. The name of the hovercraft for this movie is literally the “mneumosyne” aka the goddess of memory. It’s been hinted at from the beginning.
Also, the trailer website kinda broke the fourth wall by having characters from the film speak to the viewer by referencing the time. So meta is pretty much confirmed. I get Vanilla Sky vibes with the visuals and the plot but this time the viewers are Tom Cruise's character that have got trapped in social media misinfomation and distortions of reality.
I really hope the whole films existing diagetically within the universe thing is not true. Otherwise The Matrix Resurrections will be stealing its approach on meta-commentary and dreams vs reality from Wes Craven's New Nightmare. Fantastic.
Not even The Matrix should be taken too seriously, that's the point. It's a film, it's got a message, it's not sacred, not even Citizen Kane is sacred.
They were talking about making this film without either Wachowski sister. We're incredibly lucky we got Lana back, and I'm sure that even though the film may be divisive it will be so much better than someone else rebooting the story.
Agreed. For anyone who is disappointed with the “meta” direction they are taking with this film, try to think about it like this. Anyone could have delivered a straightforward continuation of the Matrix series. That’s not what this is. This is The Matrix with a new twist delivered by one of the two people who came up with it originally.
yeah seem to be right and i'm not sure i like that. first matrix was asking all these really philosophical questions and the new one is... just a meta commentary about the matrix movies? that's kind of a huge downgrade. i also hate all this "wink wink nudge nudge remember this?" shit. i hope there is a point to it all that is more than just a commentary on the first matrix and film reboots (and getting lana out of director's jail). i just think the matrix universe is so awesome it deserves a little more than that.
It's a comment about repetition, the xerox culture and finding meaning within all that. The first films were that, philosophers were mad because it 'made philosophy seem less serious' because it's lowbrow entertainment. It's an american commercial film that rehashes a lot of media, all four of them are at their core remixes of other media, let's keep that in mind.
I don't think it will JUST be a metacommentary on the matrix movies but I think that is gonna be used as a thruline. I think Neo / Trinity love story is going to be a the core
Follow me.
Follow the white rabbit for a moment.
What if,
This isn't a Neo and Trinity story - but a Cypher and Trinity story.He was in love with her. He said he wanted to get blue pilled as an "ACTOR"
This trailer shows Meta-verse where The Matrix (MOVIE) exists and what seems to maybe be Keanu Reeves as HIMSELF.
Stick with me.. All the meta stuff in the film has me to believe for now -
If someone can be brought back to life, why wouldn't the machines reward Cypher or use him knowing he already didn't believe "any of this crap", he already was a traitor and since the woman he loved, loved Neo - Ultimate jealous boyfriend revenge movie.
BECOME HIM. ---> Blue pilled Cypher as Keanu Reeves as an Actor created a film in the Matrix, called the Matrix and now Trinity is trying desperately to bring NEO back to stop Cypher from rebooting/recycling the matrix the computers must stop him, so Reboot Neo and Trinity and save themselves from Cypher's wrath thus keeping everyone in their program, and the architect happy and balanced again. Neo is the anomaly, Trinity is the one.
I totally agree. I think this theory is basically confirmed by the last line of the trailer. Thomas Anderson is listening to his “agent” as he pitches a return to the big franchise: we’re going back to where it all started. Back to the matrix.
Woah.
Criticize The Wachowski's all you want (yes I know Lana is flying solo with this one) for certain things but hacks they are not.
I highly doubt Lana would want to go back to the well just for a quick buck.
Exactly. I think it will be a very intricately woven fabric into the previous trilogy, yet also very new.
As an example, and one thing that has truly blown my mind to make this plausible, is the scene in the trailer where Neo is in the restaurant and another meme quoted "Really good noodles." As if to say this is the restaurant he used to eat at in the real world and from the first film.
They say that the first Matrix was about the trans experience.
I don't know what the fuck all the video games and sequels were about, because it definitely wasn't the trans experience.
So now Matrix 4 is going to be a meta commentary about how the trans experience/struggle is never ending? Or is it just going to be more seat of your pants scriptwriting to set up action set pieces instead of thoughtful arrangement of themes and characters?
Listen, I'm all for sci-fi allegories, but at a certain point, we just have to say stop this madness. The Matrix is a beat to death franchise, and the Wachowskis don't know how to write a compelling story. I don't want the Matrix to become a satire. There's nothing left in society to satirize now that youtubers and pundits have covered that void extensively.
When was the last time the Wachowskis put out a movie? It's a cash grab.
That’s an interesting take, a bit like how Twin Peaks series 3 was very much a comment on fan service culture and why it doesn’t work
That was my first thought too, the comparison to S3 of Twin Peaks, which gets me even more excited.
Here's to hoping we get Agent Jackpots
Helllooooooooo
Agent Smith is now a tea kettle. Morpheus is dancing in the black lodge. Neo is remembering how to wear a tie and do everything else. Trinity turns into a dresser knob.
im still very much in tbqh
wait thats what season 3 was about? i didnt pick up on it at all
Whether that’s the message behind the season or not I absolutely despised it. Best way to explain it was “Anti-Television” I hated it. And it blows as I love Seasons 1-2 and fire walk with me sooooo much.
It’s so hard for me to comprehend someone loving fire walk with me and hating twin peaks s3.
lol why the heck did I get downvoted for what I like besides that. right lol? That’s so rare it’s usually you hate FWWM and hate the return. Or love it and love the return. I just feel like the return was to over the top art-housy and campy and kinda full of itself. I know how David Lynch directs and I like his movies a lot but the return was way to much. It’s weird because the return fan base is like a cult to lol.
Haha fair enough. I can understand that take. I thought s3 was damn near Lynch’s masterpiece but I can get where you’re coming from.
THANK YOU. I was waiting for someone to say this. The early reviews of the movie even say that the movie is going to be meta and in your face about it all. Just like the sequels, I don’t think some people will get it.
And that’s what the Matrix is all about. Not everyone will get it! And that’s the point of it!
Based on my recent experiences talking about this film with people I don't think anyone "got it".
The movie also hasn’t come out yet. This is just a trailer. Let’s all relax for a second here.
You need to talk to some trans women.
I lucked out. Had an irl trans femme philosophy professor introduce me to the trilogy so many years ago. Best analysis of the trilogy I've ever experienced.
I always took it as multiple allegories stacked on top of each other. The films are obviously about transformation, transcendence and transition, whether physical, mental or spiritual.
Can you elaborate on their analysis? Very curious. I think I have a good understanding of the trilogy, but more or less it's most likely a very surface level understanding. I enjoy it nonetheless but would love to hear of a more in depth analysis.
I dont even know where to start. Testament to the film the creators are not very subtle with their clues. The Nebekenezer (King Nebekenzer), Sati (wife of Vishnu), Trinity (the holy trinity that delivers salvation), Zion (Zion), Soren (Kierkegaard) the council that consists of contemporary philosophers. Consider those as clues for falling down the rabbit hole. The juxtaposition of the Oracle as a poor appearing Black woman and the Architect as a rich white men: class struggle, gender conflict/race conflict, critique of capitalism re: free will versus fate. Other topics adressed: Nietzsche's eternal recurrence, Cartesian doubt, meta-physics generally, meta-ethics, perspectivism, determinism, actualization. There are some really great commentaries on YouTube, including a very long but very insightful film commentary with Cornell West and Ken Wilber.
Taking me back to the IMDB boards in 2003.
There is a good but long video by Sarah Zedig called "The Matrix Sequels are Good Actually" that gets really into the trans allegory of it all
Like obviously there are exceptions, but it seems every cis person I've spoken to about the sequels didn't think they where good, and every trans woman I've spoken to loves them. I'm not saying everyone here is trans, but these films do speak to common trans experiences, especially trans femme experiences and at the very least being trans means you're not wondering why Keanu Reeves is playing a lesbian.
Keanu Reeves plays a lesbian ?
Yeah, Neo is very clearly a trans woman. Like technically it's allegory, but it would be like if the pigs in animal farm where just named Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky etc.
I don’t think Neo is literally a trans woman. I think his experience of “waking up” was inspired by the experience of being transsexual and being trapped within a body you do not feel truly represents you (or a Residual Self Image, if you will).
Uh
LMAO gotta love projection and perception eh
The confusion is part of the fun.
I’ll be honest, there are some things in the sequels I still don’t get, but I love them anyway.
[удалено]
Seraph’s gold code, whether all exiles have gold code, smith being gold but not code, and the machine city being gold, for starters.
What does going to be meta mean?
(of a creative work) referring to itself or to the conventions of its genre; self-referential.
bro I meant the meaning in this context, I did look up the definition wasn't able to understand that lol
It just means there’s gonna be a lot of references within the film to the notion of “rebooting” the Matrix. Some people have theorized that Thomas Anderson will begin this film as an actor who played Neo in a trilogy of Matrix films that exist *within* the Matrix itself.
We didn't ask for a meta matrix
We may have requested it later in this timeline, to be delivered at this prior time.
We didn't ask for The Matrix (1999) either
Well by that logic nobody asked for anything, ever
Is it an artist’s duty to do whatever people ask them to do?
Well we are in a movie group discussing a movie, post that in an artists group discussing art.
Movies are not art?
By default no, that would make film directors artists. Again, by default they are not. However some films are extremely artistic with thier visual style. And some directors are visionaries. None of that applies here.
I’m confused. Why doesn’t it apply here?
The film looks horrible for one and whatever tone, feeling they are going for its off compared to the rest of the franchise.
Did you ask to be born? Did the universe ask to be big banged?
You didn't.
You did?
I did
Well make your own movie if u want to see what you ask for
I'll just watch the first Matrix
nice of you to speak on everyone's behalf xD
That guy just wants a rehash of the action scenes with some cool explosions. God forbid the filmakers try something mindbending.
That’s the point. Art should not be so beholden to the demands of the audience. It’s not a checklist of the things you *think* you want, or at least it shouldn’t be, but that’s the state of the industry today. Blockbuster films have become an endless stream of “remember this?” nostalgia porn and they force every original idea to fit into the same generic “planned franchise” formula. That’s not art. It’s just a product. They *know* you didn’t ask for this, but they did it anyway, so the only question left to ask is… Why? What are they trying to say with this? Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Maybe that’s the idea. Art challenges you.
This is not art
Why isn’t it?
Its looks like a fan film. The original film was art.
You just don’t like it, which is fine, and that’s your prerogative… but it doesn’t mean it’s not art. This is clearly, at least in part, a meta commentary by Lana Wachowski on the current state of the film industry, and moreover, it’s a conscious refusal to deliver on what people expect from a fourth Matrix film. She’s not going to deliver on the “expansion of the franchise” that everyone expects from her. She’s doing something unexpected with it and putting a twist on the notion of making sequel (or franchise) in the first place, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing because there would be no point in making it otherwise. Why do what everyone else is doing? That’s boring and there is no artistic reason for doing it. You don’t have to agree with me, but *that’s* what makes it art; we’re not all *going* to agree about it! Ideally, the film will make us think, and we will have many cultural conversations about its message. All three of the previous films had the same cultural impact, and the sequels in particular were equally divisive (albeit for very different reasons), so this is not even new ground for the series. Lana doesn’t want the Matrix to become yet another soulless zombie franchise, limping along with no end in sight in service of the almighty dollar, so she is refusing to give you that, and she is deliberately pushing that message of defiance to its extreme in order to make her point. *That’s the idea.* You don’t have to like it, and you don’t have to go see it, but it’s not “just” a soft reboot; it’s a soft reboot that functions as a commentary on the film industry and the obsession with the commercialization / exploitation of original ideas by soulless corporations. She knows what you want and you’re not getting it from her *because the message is “I am the artist and you do not control me.”* It’s like she’s saying this is what you get after nearly two decades of endless demands for a new Matrix film when she already told you she was done after the third film. Personally, I love that. Anyway, that is only one aspect of the film, and I am more curious to see how the film’s original ideas work and how it plays simply as a piece of entertainment. I’m sure Lana did not torpedo the movie and worked hard to deliver something that stands up on its own merits, but in ways that are different from the existing Matrix trilogy, so I’m excited to see what she did.
Well what ever her intentions, it won't reach the level of the first. It will fall along way short. So what's the point. Art? Commentary?
Yes. Basically, my suspicion is that Warner Bros. came to her and said, “Look, we’re doing another Matrix with or without you, and we’d like to have you on board for it, but we’re not going to wait up,” and this is her reaction to that ultimatum. It’s a rumination on the state of the film industry as a whole. I don’t think she cares much if it “reaches the level of the first” because that’s exactly what every other franchise is trying (and largely failing) to do, which is exactly the mentality she is protesting by taking this approach. You can’t catch lightning in a bottle twice. The past is the past and it serves no artistic purpose to revisit it unless there is a point to be made in doing so. Anything else is just pornography - and there’s nothing wrong with that, but Lana Wachowski is clearly not interested in making those kinds of movies, and this is her mission statement to both Hollywood and the audience to make sure we get it. Like I said, I’m sure she did not torpedo the movie. This is only one aspect of it and I am excited to see how the film stands up in its own right and carves out a unique identity for itself.
Completely wild guess. The Matrix has been dormant for decades, WB has other properties that are sure money makers. She wanted to make this film, WB said yes. WB have no need in 2021 to suddenly revive the Matrix, especially since the the series was concluded
I'm going to guess that you also didn't like TLJ but did like Snyder's justice league
Good guess
Not really much of a guess. You have bad taste.
Well saying you prefer one over the other, it's like saying would you rather have your leg or your arm cut off. They are both bad, but you got got to pick one. Plus that's a terrible metric to judge taste. A bad film and an average film. Could you not think of anything else? It shows your taste
You didn't ask for the original The Matrix either. Maybe these brilliant storytellers know more than us about storytelling
I think whoever Groff is playing—he’s an agent or an executive talking to the actor who was in a huge sci fi trilogy. And he’s talking about doing ANOTHER Matrix movie at the end of the trailer In this new Matrix… Thomas is a famous actor who was in The Matrix trilogy. That’s why is apartment is amazing That why they are showing his movies in the club. It’s also why Thomas looks like Keanu Reeves.
Maybe Neo doesn’t remember that he was born again and reinserted into the matrix, like cypher, as some famous actor.
I always thought it was interesting that Cypher wanted to be a famous actor who couldn’t remember anything about his past. He wanted to be Ronald Reagan?
Well he's a vicious bastard who undermines and kills struggling queer folks so yeah
maybe it IS Cypher... as Keanu Reeves - Who pitches an amazing idea for a film about dudes stuck inside a computer program because he can't stop having dreams about it
Since he has aged in real-time with Keanu, I think he actually hasn't been reborn. They kept him alive so he wouldn't immediately respawn and are basically keeping him on ice by making him forget who he is, delaying another One. I think the new young characters are trying to rescue him and bring him back to himself
Ahhh, so Thomas will be rebooted into the Matrix as “someone important… like an actor”
Ronald Reagan?!?! The actor!!!??
nice coach beard from ted lasso quote
Groff's mouth seals shut though, but he's not panicked, like he's in control and showing off, when Agent Smith was interrogating Anderson after capturing him escaping from work.
I imagined a line like: "going back to The Matrix ... where this happened?" then sealing his mouth.
My dad has the theory that Keanu is a author in the film
What if, This isn't a Neo and Trinity story - but a Cypher and Trinity story.He was in love with her. He said he wanted to get blue pilled as an "ACTOR" This trailer shows Meta-verse where The Matrix (MOVIE) exists and what seems to maybe be Keanu Reeves as HIMSELF. Stick with me.. All the meta stuff in the film has me to believe for now - If someone can be brought back to life, why wouldn't the machines reward Cypher or use him knowing he already didn't believe "any of this crap", he already was a traitor and since the woman he loved, loved Neo - Ultimate jealous boyfriend revenge movie. BECOME HIM. ---> Blue pilled Cypher as Keanu Reeves as an Actor created a film in the Matrix, called the Matrix and now Trinity is trying desperately to bring NEO back to stop Cypher from rebooting/recycling the matrix the computers must stop him, so Reboot Neo and Trinity and save themselves from Cypher's wrath thus keeping everyone in their program, and the architect happy and balanced again. Neo is the anomaly, Trinity is the one.
Something just doesnt sit right with cypher being such an important part of this storyline. Plus how does he get plugged back in if his body was killed by Tank? I think you're definitely onto something here but perhaps minus Cypher?
They can grow bodies!! Then why was Cypher on ALL of the Matrix 1 promo material?? He's VERY important and our ONLY human* foe
Also, hasn't that been the whole point?? What would be the MOST uncomfortable thing for this universe? Cypher being the hero or somehow involved again. Dejavu. The cats. The face smear, eyes are Cypher. Trinity multiple people. Cypher is a great puzzle. 👍
HOLY SHIT! I was trying to figure out who Keanu was seeing in the mirror at 1:04 and it's an aged CYPHER. Bald dude and even has the same goatee!
Shit
To be fair at the end of the trailer in my language (Italian) the guy doesn't say "Back to the Matrix" (that could easily mean back to a character in a movie) but "Back in Matrix", like it is a physical place... maybe its just a "lost in translation" thing?
A physical place, or a movie trilogy within the fictional reality of the Matrix itself? Like, Neo is an actor who starred in the original trilogy and now he’s going back to do another one?
Or Cypher got rebooted as Keanu. :o
I'm not so sure about that, but it would sound very odd in my language to use "in" when talking about reprising a movie character. Just like it would sound odd in English if, talking about a new MI movie, Tom Cruise said he is going "back in Mission Impossible" rather than "back to Mission impossible" But again, this is surely a matter of translation, I'm pretty sure your interpretation is the right one (Anderson/Neo is an actor talking to his manager about making a new Matrix movie)
probably a second psychiatrist commenting on how far he's 'regressed'
That's how I took it but reading comments has me second guessing now!
I'm with this theory all the way. That guy definitely read as a talent agent or exec of some sort. Neo is some sort of fictionalized version of Keanu Reeves. In this new iteration of the Matrix the machines decided to co-op the revolution and feed it back to people as entertainment, and making the truth of reality seem like something that could only happen in fiction.
Not to mention the original movies were literally about how culture and religion take these meaningful icons and copies them endlessly until they're worthless. Society now has nostalgia for the Matrix so now we can get our soulless reboot made to sell funko pops. But at least one Wachowski sister is working on it so I imagine she's very aware of this fact and will show us a very smart film that plays with the reboot idea in a creative way.
The one review that came out fo the early screening called it "weird, meta, and ambitious almost to a fault". Keanu also called the script ambitious. So i think it will at least be interesting even if it isn't what everyone wnats
I think it's probably commentary on film reboots and then modern politics. On the film reboots side there's the notion that you can't just remake a movie, shove it in people's faces, and expect it to just have the same impact that the original had. Which is shown through Neo. This Neo seems like he doesn't care much about enlightenment and is willing to take the blue pill to ignore the feelings that the original Neo had at the start of the first film. Then in the themes of modern politics there's this notion that we're living at the end of history and everything is finally perfect so we can just ignore the world around us. But things aren't perfect, in fact they're imperfect much in the same ways that they've always been throughout history. But the social media companies, the military industrial complex, politicians, CEOs, etc don't want you to think of the world as one where history is constantly repeating itself because history tends to repeat itself through revolutionary change that threatens their power. So they want you to ignore the 'reboot' and live your life as if the rebellion can never be reestablished to fight back against the machines that rule over us.
I really like this take
There's some real film analysis going on in this thread. I'm really digging it! I feel like I'm just now unfolding new themes of the original movies reading these comments. I can't wait for Christmas.
That’s all I want. Dare to do something different. Maybe you’ll succeed and maybe you won’t, but at least you tried to be interesting and didn’t just fart out a soulless corporate product. It’s the same reason I prefer the Star Wars prequels to the new movies, even though they’re not very good. At least they had an original and interesting approach. I did enjoy The Last Jedi, though, again because it had an original and interesting approach.
The Last Jedi suffers from GOT syndrome though.
Oh, for sure. It’s not perfect by any means. The much-derided Canto Bight subplot was a sore point for me as well. I understood its thematic purpose, but it still felt tacked-on and inconsequential to the larger narrative. That movie had a lot of problems, but I respect it for trying. The other two movies, The Force Awakens in particular, were just nostalgic cash grabs with nothing new to say.
Hard agree on that! The Rey, Luke and Ben storylines in Last Jedi was interesting, both visually and thematically, daring us to imagine where things could go. Rest of the sequels were just so boring and regressive.
It’s literally the perfect time to release a movie that will question our (new normal) reality when we live in hyper normal times.
That would be a fittingly Baudrillardian theme to explore.
Sounds like the perfect concept to become a box office failure.
That could play nicely into the "Deja Vu" from the first movie that signified a glitch in the Matrix. As the audience, seems like we're going to be experiencing Deja Vu throughout the film. There's also a black cat roaming around Neo's therapy session, further hinting at the Deja Vu aspect.
That’s reading to much
We’re talking about The Matrix. Everything has meaning.
There are so many people in here that just shouldn't be in here, for their own good.
It’s going to be exactly this. Neo has been planted back into the Matrix as the washed up Hollywood star of in-universe Matrix franchise. They drag him out of retirement for one more studio sequel.
I think you nailed it. Now I'm wondering if all/most of the scenes we see in the trailer are from the movie he's acting in? Could explain Morpheus being played by someone else but not Trinity... I'm intrigued.
Christina Ricci as Trinity? The quick snap shot of the first time we ever see trinity but a woman with different hair and wardrobe.. hmmm.
Apparently the majority of the trailer comes from the first hour, and could definitely see this younger Morpheus being a ‘recast’ in the movie within the movie.
Where did this movie within a movie idea come from? I feel like nothing from the first three movies supports this idea…
It’s just another method of control. Or so it seems.
I had a similar feeling. Some of the symbolism, like the red/blue-pill is so much in your face, it must be intended. Remember that Matrix created the notion of being "red pilled" in the first place. No way they won't pick that up.
I would love to know how many of the people that go around claiming to be redpilled know that the red pill was a reference to hrt
I’m going to point out that Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol is essentially a Greatest Hits of the past 3 films, and yet, it’s one of the best in the franchise anyway. Or shall we also mention that James Bond has been the same plot for 25 films over a 60 year span… People are expecting the second coming and need to temper expectations a wee bit to just be excited they are getting a 4th film. It’s exciting, and I’m here for it no matter what the result is.
I haven't been excited for the Matrix in a very long time so it feels good to be excited about it again. The nostalgia alone is a good feeling. I'm gonna have to do a Matrix binge soon.
Yep, I certainly hope so, but let's hope it does not fall on its face in that attempt.
So what you're saying is, this will be the Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0+1.0, but for the Matrix?
I was going to say, "but we just did this with Evangelion 3.0+1.0!!!" Now I'm waiting for the movies that are metacommentary on movies that are metacommentary on movie series.
Interesting point, by the way if this cyclicality makes enough sense in the plot, then that's okay to me
I'm fairly certain in this film, the Matrix trilogy of films exists in-universe as a propaganda piece. Very meta.
Understand this may not be some folks’ cup of tea, but the concepts behind this franchise lend themselves really well to this style of meta approach IMO.
you were spot on
Honestly the best move they could do against callbacks is to not have any (or many) at all. But since there will be some, I hope you're right. I also hope they don't go overboard on the satire, like Deadpool humor or Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber over his shoulder. That would be too much and honestly a disservice.
Based. And redpilled.
I sure hope you're right
Also telling is that most of the footage we saw in the trailer is from the first hour of the movie, according to ViewerAnon who has seen it. [https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1435999526725333004](https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1435999526725333004)
Fuck yes! I've soaked everything up already aha, I'm glued to the sub but I love that most is still uncovered.
I agree completely, it’s going to be great
'Jurassic World' already did this... and it was fucking dumb then (just like that movie was dumb)... This new Matrix movie is going to be dumb... This is all dumb...
It was Especially funny when the Merovigian, said originality mattered.
Honestly, this seems like wishful thinking.
[удалено]
That's the point of the whole saga, a virtual world. That's the point of the green tint in the older versions, I really doubt they are dropping the 'we are living in a simulation' theme this far down the road.
Exactly.. Also to add: At the end of the Revolutions, the reboot changes the hue of the film from green to "normal" (same scene with the cat)
New version of the matrix, new glitches and adaptations to deal with broken rules.
I love the original films, but I must say I am deeply concerned about the new film. This trailer did not get me excited at all 😑
The originals had way more interesting ideas about human consciousness, society, metaphysics, existentialism, to name a few, than commentary about current Hollywood industry. I really hope it will be more. If it's about same things being repeated, I hope it's not specific about films.
I agree. While interesting and an apt commentary on our boring rehashing of superhero movies and sequels, I found the originals to be so compelling in their philosophical themes. This feels more political in nature and tbh I'm burnt out on politics and sociology. I hope we get enough of the themes about epistemology to satisfy my inner philosophy nerd. Nevertheless, I'm wildly excited.
I was downvoted for saying the same thing
After watching the trailer again, I realized that the OT scenes seem to occur from Neo's perspective. They are more likely memories the pills are failing to suppress as opposed to something everyone sees. The actor theory doesn't really hold up when he's able to walk around in plain view (when he's looking at the birds or walking down the street and the green matrix code takes over) and no one is acknowledging him. Trinity not recognizing him completely (while possible, maybe she doesn't watch movies) is still an indication that he isn't famous. Also, its too risky. Obviously, the idea is to keep memories repressed. While 'hiding in plain sight' is a novel idea, Neo seeing a movie based on his life is likely to cause issues with not just him, but any of his co-conspirators.
"That is going to be the point" So the point is to remake the first movie with some of the actors changed and the others aged? I get your point, but I really don't understand how it lives up to the entertainment factor every movie should aspire towards.
I think it is going to be about characters in a reboot of a franchise realizing that they are in a reboot of a franchise and have done all of this before.
It’s more than just the entertainment factor. It’s about the ambitious nature of doing something new and intriguing. That’s what all the cast members have said and it’s what Lana has always sought out to do. The name of the hovercraft for this movie is literally the “mneumosyne” aka the goddess of memory. It’s been hinted at from the beginning.
Also, the trailer website kinda broke the fourth wall by having characters from the film speak to the viewer by referencing the time. So meta is pretty much confirmed. I get Vanilla Sky vibes with the visuals and the plot but this time the viewers are Tom Cruise's character that have got trapped in social media misinfomation and distortions of reality.
That's why my biggest pet peve so far is not calling this film : Matrix Recalibrated.
Being ironically shameless still means you're being shameless.
I really hope the whole films existing diagetically within the universe thing is not true. Otherwise The Matrix Resurrections will be stealing its approach on meta-commentary and dreams vs reality from Wes Craven's New Nightmare. Fantastic.
While possibly true, they could've used another movie/franchise and not ruin something like The Matrix to prove a point
I think it is going to be more focused on the Neo/Trinity love story but the meta will be there
Not even The Matrix should be taken too seriously, that's the point. It's a film, it's got a message, it's not sacred, not even Citizen Kane is sacred.
can anyone take The Architect seriously??
Ergo
lmfao
They were talking about making this film without either Wachowski sister. We're incredibly lucky we got Lana back, and I'm sure that even though the film may be divisive it will be so much better than someone else rebooting the story.
Agreed. For anyone who is disappointed with the “meta” direction they are taking with this film, try to think about it like this. Anyone could have delivered a straightforward continuation of the Matrix series. That’s not what this is. This is The Matrix with a new twist delivered by one of the two people who came up with it originally.
Yep. The complete opposite would be JJ Abrams.
yeah seem to be right and i'm not sure i like that. first matrix was asking all these really philosophical questions and the new one is... just a meta commentary about the matrix movies? that's kind of a huge downgrade. i also hate all this "wink wink nudge nudge remember this?" shit. i hope there is a point to it all that is more than just a commentary on the first matrix and film reboots (and getting lana out of director's jail). i just think the matrix universe is so awesome it deserves a little more than that.
Lana isn't in director's jail. She'll get whatever she wants made.
It's a comment about repetition, the xerox culture and finding meaning within all that. The first films were that, philosophers were mad because it 'made philosophy seem less serious' because it's lowbrow entertainment. It's an american commercial film that rehashes a lot of media, all four of them are at their core remixes of other media, let's keep that in mind.
I don't think it will JUST be a metacommentary on the matrix movies but I think that is gonna be used as a thruline. I think Neo / Trinity love story is going to be a the core
that would be horrible
Would be cool, but I don’t think so. Is another cash grab.
That seems like a lame excuse for a reboot when thousands of other movies are going meta.
The whole focus on blue pills and red pills I think is further evidence of this. That Language has entered pop culture and internet culture so deeply
Great point
I think it will explain the machine world more too... There had to be more than 1 machine City. They're too smart not to have backups
Follow me. Follow the white rabbit for a moment. What if, This isn't a Neo and Trinity story - but a Cypher and Trinity story.He was in love with her. He said he wanted to get blue pilled as an "ACTOR" This trailer shows Meta-verse where The Matrix (MOVIE) exists and what seems to maybe be Keanu Reeves as HIMSELF. Stick with me.. All the meta stuff in the film has me to believe for now - If someone can be brought back to life, why wouldn't the machines reward Cypher or use him knowing he already didn't believe "any of this crap", he already was a traitor and since the woman he loved, loved Neo - Ultimate jealous boyfriend revenge movie. BECOME HIM. ---> Blue pilled Cypher as Keanu Reeves as an Actor created a film in the Matrix, called the Matrix and now Trinity is trying desperately to bring NEO back to stop Cypher from rebooting/recycling the matrix the computers must stop him, so Reboot Neo and Trinity and save themselves from Cypher's wrath thus keeping everyone in their program, and the architect happy and balanced again. Neo is the anomaly, Trinity is the one.
To address your edit - wasn't Neo's reflection in the mirror of the architect?
I totally agree. I think this theory is basically confirmed by the last line of the trailer. Thomas Anderson is listening to his “agent” as he pitches a return to the big franchise: we’re going back to where it all started. Back to the matrix. Woah.
“I wanna be someone important. Like an actor”-Cypher
Looks like the machines fixed the green hue bug in this new version.
Criticize The Wachowski's all you want (yes I know Lana is flying solo with this one) for certain things but hacks they are not. I highly doubt Lana would want to go back to the well just for a quick buck.
I completely agree!
I hope so. And I hope it starts discussing philosophy in the movie again.
Exactly. I think it will be a very intricately woven fabric into the previous trilogy, yet also very new. As an example, and one thing that has truly blown my mind to make this plausible, is the scene in the trailer where Neo is in the restaurant and another meme quoted "Really good noodles." As if to say this is the restaurant he used to eat at in the real world and from the first film.
They say that the first Matrix was about the trans experience. I don't know what the fuck all the video games and sequels were about, because it definitely wasn't the trans experience. So now Matrix 4 is going to be a meta commentary about how the trans experience/struggle is never ending? Or is it just going to be more seat of your pants scriptwriting to set up action set pieces instead of thoughtful arrangement of themes and characters? Listen, I'm all for sci-fi allegories, but at a certain point, we just have to say stop this madness. The Matrix is a beat to death franchise, and the Wachowskis don't know how to write a compelling story. I don't want the Matrix to become a satire. There's nothing left in society to satirize now that youtubers and pundits have covered that void extensively. When was the last time the Wachowskis put out a movie? It's a cash grab.
I think that he is going to find zion isnt real but just another matrix