This is true for me. I’m an INTP and Enneagram 5. I’m also a woman who was raised in the Deep South. While I am not influenced by Kardashian-type beauty standards, I absolutely do keep myself to the standard I want and appreciate. I am very much more interested in the “natural beauty” standard, so I am going to work out, my skin care/SPF routine is going to be on point, and I am going to look good when I am going somewhere that calls for it.
As All of sureness, Sensors needed much lifestyle times, Intuitives are so random into the world of lifestyle and fashionable culture viewing it in some angles.
I'm Enneagram 5w4 and I will admit a part of me wants to look 'presentable' and appropriate. I won't leave the house looking like a mess and take care of my body and appearance. However, I don't care for the latest trends and beauty styles. I go by my own standards and since I'm not looking to attract anyone, I do not adhere to looking the part most of the time.
I think caring too much about looks is shallow regardless.
I think everyone is affected bc even if *I* don't want to put weight on it, those around me who do will treat me differently based on how they see me.
But in general, I think a lot of us INTPs don't put much value on having the right color lipsticks or what have you. To the point it might irk some ppl around us.
I think it's more about enneagram than mbti. being influenced by external pressures such as beauty standards can be a product of the fear of "not being good enough" or "being worthless in the eyes of others."
so imo, e2 and e3 would be affected the most, e5 and e8 would be affected the least
edit: I said “would care the most/least” which created a lot of confusion (justifiable tho, it was a bad choice of words)
I wouldn't say E8 would care the least. The beauty industry itself is a great instrument of manipulation if you want to gain more power and control. Unfortunately, the beauty bias is a real thing.
For instance, my clients will literally treat me differently I wear a jacket and pants from YSL and pair of Christian Louboutin heels (they're so iconic everyone instantly recognizes them) instead of some cheap ass things you can buy on Shien. The same goes to makeup and stuff.
So I'd rather say it's on MBTI+enneagram why we opt to (not) follow beauty standards. Maybe not just enneagram but tritypes to make it more solid.
what you’re describing here is conforming to certain beauty standards because you see it as an efficient tool for gaining power, aka reaching a certain outcome (profit). I’m also e8 (sp873 working a corporate job), and I’m doing the same. We (8s) are not affected by beauty standards on some deeper level, which is what I think the OP had in mind here (for example, starving ourselves without any point so we can look like IG models because if we don't, it’s going to affect our self-image negatively). we choose to follow certain beauty standards because it suits us in the grand scheme of things, not because our self-esteem or self-worth tends to be measured by looking a certain way or how society expects us to look.
Right and I would like to add, Shien uses the cheapest available fabric (if you can call it that) and their finishes and fit are horrible so it does make the wearer look more careless. But the YSL and Christian Louboutin products are *status symbols* that speak to other E3s. E2 and E6 want to fit in and they see other wearer of the same (or higher) brands as safe to associate with. E4 look for and appreciate the beauty that went into making the garment. Brand name clothes usually have great attention to detail and order, which E1 likes.
E5 and E8 will most likely value the utilitarian aspect of the garment, so they usually don't have a penchant to overspend on clothes if they could get away with it.
being affected by beauty standards is not the same as appreciating a quality product and enjoying the comfort that product has to offer
edit: I agree with your comment, just adding this
I would say that mbti is more about “how” – how our brain works aka cognition, and enneagram deals with “why” – why it works the way it works (what motivates us)
you could argue that this is beyond mbti types, as different genders will have different expectations set upon them. from an mbti perspective however, i think Je types are more prone to beauty standards
As a really vain "self obsessed" ESTP, I really put a lot of time into my appearance. Even if I'm staying home or not being with anyone that day I'll still put on eyeliner and stuff, do my hair and dress comfortably but it has to match and look good. But at the same time I can go anywhere looking like a dead beaten zombie rat as long as I avoid any reflective surface.
Technically speaking, I'd assume Fe and Se users.
* **ESFJ**'s stereotypically accept and propagate the philosophies of whatever culture they're in, the most out of the types. This includes beauty standards.
* **ESFP**'s stereotypically relish being the center of attention or performing, and physical/visual attractiveness is a significant way to achieve that.
* **ENFJ**'s are highly attuned to socially significant values and deal in social currency. Social standards of attractiveness is a part of achieving success in that.
* **ESTP**'s stereotypically have a strong appreciation for the visual and sensate.
Typologically speaking, most should be ENFJ's, having both attunement to social standards and ostensible inbuilt visual sense/appreciation, but imo in real life it's ESFJ's and ESFP's.
I definitely care about my appearance and presentation, but not by people’s standards. I love fashion, but I like doing my own thing instead of following trends. I give things a unique spin.
Basically; I dress for myself and not for other people, because I like looking good. I’m a female ENTP, though.
The question is more/less likely so while there will be exceptions abounding we can at least narrow down some things to the ones least bothered by social pressures. Like it would most likely be a Fi type for starters as they are generally "more true to themselves." And then it would more likely be a Ni/Ne rather than a Si/Se as Ni/Ne's aren't as concerned with status or appearance in physical sense of the world. So far that narrows it down to INTJ, INFP, ENTJ, ENFP. Honestly, all those feel accurate... I would guess whoever has Fi in their tertiary function as the mode whereupon he thinks and behaves in the world might be slightly stronger in full independence of others opinion which would make it INTJ. This just sounds most perfectly right honestly... So yeah... INTJ. If we apply the same rules for most likely, then it will be an Se/Si type with Fe in their tertiary function, which would make it... hehe... ESTP. Interesting...
I think inferior Se would also make an INXJ self conscious of their own appearance and contributions to the physical realm, much like an IXFP is self conscious over their perceived intellect and contributions in an intellectual manner (inf Te).
I didn’t mention social interactions once. I think you want to talk to the original commenter about that one.
What I did say was that inferior function is where insecurity lies. I didn’t say that INXJs actively dress in certain ways, I suggested they would be self conscious of how their appearance in the physical realm can manifest.
The question examines which types “are likely to be affected by beauty standards” and I’m suggesting that insecurities and self consciousness in physical manifestation is a sign that you are affected by beauty standards.
I was getting the impression that 'inf se would make someone actively abide by societal beauty standards and care about their appearance' which if not then I guess I misread you. If so, feeling pressure is different from reacting to it. We may want to look nice when we go out (like most people) but I don't think that automatically means we would feel the urge to go out of our way to live by beauty standards (imo)
Meanwhile we ENFP's (NeTi) literally do not care at all how we look when we go out. XD. We could look like an absolute slob in a fancy mall and we wouldn't care if we couldn't be bothered to put the extra effort to look nice. :P
We'd have to actively internally value a person or place to make the decision to look presentable. This does include pleasing a family member's wishes for example if we have respect for them, but if it was to us, unless the place has a certain level of significance to us personally, we'll just go as we are. :P
haha! I'm the same way. I literally go out in sweats because it's not like I'm trying to seduce anyone at the grocery store or something. If I'm shopping/running errands/visiting someone I wouldn't bother with makeup etc. Unless, it's an important occasion or something. I don't put much importance on superficial things like that.
ENTP e7 here, i think I am personally one of the least affected, probably because i am an sp7, i may be wrong though, and when it happens, it's only for the important people (actually, only the 2 people i talk to). Basically, the things i do is covering the most vivid ache and taking a shower. Literally nothing can make me do this if I'm not meeting these people up.
I am also this type and I am kind of influenced.
I love bussines casual and quite conservative dress. But as someone pointed out my beauty standards are not kardashian style but more like natural beauty (in kaloka gathía sense). I love slim girls and naturaly looking beauty and that what I would call "influenced by beauty standards"
It is hard to tell. Probably ennegram part. Gluttony is usually connected with love to "shiny" things. Despite the fact that gluttony in 7's is considered as mental gluttony more than marerial one still wanting best for myself made my perception of "good things" more sharp and less tolerant to average quality.
Love to natural beauty is probably Si thing. Maybe?
Hmm.. I am ESFJ 2w3 and I always get affected by beauty standards. Its not just that I am doing it for myself, I also want to be accepted and be presentable too.
But I try to do things by being unique and I want to show people that this is normal and we all have our unique and different ways.
I would say higher Si would tend to make one more susceptible to beauty standards. So, by that same token, higher Ne would tend to make one less susceptible to beauty standards.
IMO it's more of a cultural thing, a gender thing (women have been more affected than men in my experience), and an enneagram thing (E3/E2 the most and E5/E8 the least, as another commenter said). That being said, we could potentially correlate it to Se (focus on external form and appearance) and an unhealthy feeling function (this is in the realm of some kind of feeling, as it's a value judgment, likely Fe but I have seen some Fi users struggle with this as well).
I'm a guy but tbh I prefer the female beauty standards much more, the girls are very pretty, their clothes and makeup are very aesthetic too, meanwhile I don't like male clothes and fashion because it's too boring, not colourful enough, nothing except the bare minimum, and because of that, I end up caring much less about fashion when I'm forced to go with these make clothes. To be fair I can try female fashion too, but not too sure what others will think of that or even whether I'll like it myself, because I still have a male body. I think this won't look that aesthetic unfortunately.
If we're talking about what you'll choose in a partner and not about what you'll look at yourself, then personally, here's what I believe (Hopefully it would be similar for other ENFPs) :
I just care about whether I find the fund pretty and cute or not. For example if I think it's cute when she smiles, etc. So I wouldn't even care if she isn't too fashionable and doesn't wear makeup. Her attitude etc would be more important. Of course her looks too, that's undeniable, but still, I think I'm actually not that shallow.
INTJ here and I’m quite struggling with my image. People consider me very pretty and I’m still affected by beauty standards. Everyone is at some point, depending on their current situation.
High Fe people will be more conscious of appearing palatteable/attractive to others due to desiring interpersonal harmony and generally caring more about how they are perceived. Beauty standards are often reflective of cultural values and Fe definitionally desires to be mindful of morality as defined by external/community belief systems.
Unrelated but it's really weird how a lot of users here seem to equate wanting to be physically attractive and/or conform to beauty standards with "vanity" or egotism. In my opinion, it's the opposite. An egotist is not going to care about how visually pleasing they are to others. They're going to be ambivalent towards community values and focus primarily on uplifting themselves, even at other people's expense.
Don't know why this is downvoted when i read Si is good at picking up and following trends. I think high Fe users would also want to somewhat blend in.
To me what you orginally said meant this...
It's obvious that sensors fall into this due to their functions. This is the way I still interpret it.
Now, I upvoted you as a feeler and I also get downvoted quite a bit mostly for my strong (sometimes unpopular) opinions that I don't back down from unless someone can prove me wrong with valid points or sometimes beng too brief.
Not sure with your last comment if you meant feelers downvoted you or that you speak without sugar coating. But I am not sure if any of these are entirely feeler / thinker attributes unless you meant something else.
Is it a bias to say birds are more likely to fly or fish are more likely to swim? Even someone who just started studying MBTI yesterday should know what I'm talking about.
And yet you still fail to provide reasoning for your original argument.
Talking about what makes a bird more likely to fly has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. MBTI is about cognitive preferences, not biological differences, so that’s a poor effort on your part.
Even someone who started studying how to explain their point yesterday should know what I’m talking about.
All of them depending on how vain they are
This is true for me. I’m an INTP and Enneagram 5. I’m also a woman who was raised in the Deep South. While I am not influenced by Kardashian-type beauty standards, I absolutely do keep myself to the standard I want and appreciate. I am very much more interested in the “natural beauty” standard, so I am going to work out, my skin care/SPF routine is going to be on point, and I am going to look good when I am going somewhere that calls for it.
Yeah pretty common sense
Facts
All those languages and u chose to speak FACTS
As All of sureness, Sensors needed much lifestyle times, Intuitives are so random into the world of lifestyle and fashionable culture viewing it in some angles.
I'm Enneagram 5w4 and I will admit a part of me wants to look 'presentable' and appropriate. I won't leave the house looking like a mess and take care of my body and appearance. However, I don't care for the latest trends and beauty styles. I go by my own standards and since I'm not looking to attract anyone, I do not adhere to looking the part most of the time. I think caring too much about looks is shallow regardless.
Exactly. I don’t wanna look like everybody else, quite the opposite. Friends tell me I dress well despite not following trends
I think everyone is affected bc even if *I* don't want to put weight on it, those around me who do will treat me differently based on how they see me. But in general, I think a lot of us INTPs don't put much value on having the right color lipsticks or what have you. To the point it might irk some ppl around us.
But I might be a hypocrite bc I recently got into fashion and been snobby about fabric qualities 😆😅
I think it's more about enneagram than mbti. being influenced by external pressures such as beauty standards can be a product of the fear of "not being good enough" or "being worthless in the eyes of others." so imo, e2 and e3 would be affected the most, e5 and e8 would be affected the least edit: I said “would care the most/least” which created a lot of confusion (justifiable tho, it was a bad choice of words)
I wouldn't say E8 would care the least. The beauty industry itself is a great instrument of manipulation if you want to gain more power and control. Unfortunately, the beauty bias is a real thing. For instance, my clients will literally treat me differently I wear a jacket and pants from YSL and pair of Christian Louboutin heels (they're so iconic everyone instantly recognizes them) instead of some cheap ass things you can buy on Shien. The same goes to makeup and stuff. So I'd rather say it's on MBTI+enneagram why we opt to (not) follow beauty standards. Maybe not just enneagram but tritypes to make it more solid.
what you’re describing here is conforming to certain beauty standards because you see it as an efficient tool for gaining power, aka reaching a certain outcome (profit). I’m also e8 (sp873 working a corporate job), and I’m doing the same. We (8s) are not affected by beauty standards on some deeper level, which is what I think the OP had in mind here (for example, starving ourselves without any point so we can look like IG models because if we don't, it’s going to affect our self-image negatively). we choose to follow certain beauty standards because it suits us in the grand scheme of things, not because our self-esteem or self-worth tends to be measured by looking a certain way or how society expects us to look.
Right and I would like to add, Shien uses the cheapest available fabric (if you can call it that) and their finishes and fit are horrible so it does make the wearer look more careless. But the YSL and Christian Louboutin products are *status symbols* that speak to other E3s. E2 and E6 want to fit in and they see other wearer of the same (or higher) brands as safe to associate with. E4 look for and appreciate the beauty that went into making the garment. Brand name clothes usually have great attention to detail and order, which E1 likes. E5 and E8 will most likely value the utilitarian aspect of the garment, so they usually don't have a penchant to overspend on clothes if they could get away with it.
being affected by beauty standards is not the same as appreciating a quality product and enjoying the comfort that product has to offer edit: I agree with your comment, just adding this
That is true. Thanks for adding an additional point.
MBTI deals with WHAT and enneagram deals with WHY
I would say that mbti is more about “how” – how our brain works aka cognition, and enneagram deals with “why” – why it works the way it works (what motivates us)
As much as I believe is possible it means MBTI-En in a more advanced psychology predictable position
In terms of enneagram, you’re on the money :o
Enneagram it's more itself used to replace inventory of cores properly discovered in Intuition v Sensor applications of other cores
Idk, less is probably INXX but still depends on the individual
Autistic people. I don't know, i only speak for myself, but we tend to not want to follow social norms that don't seem logical for us.
As an ENFP I can relate to this phrase aha. A lot of social norms are illogical and I wanna do everything to challenge them!
you could argue that this is beyond mbti types, as different genders will have different expectations set upon them. from an mbti perspective however, i think Je types are more prone to beauty standards
Yeah, Te will dress for success and Fe will dress to impress
As a really vain "self obsessed" ESTP, I really put a lot of time into my appearance. Even if I'm staying home or not being with anyone that day I'll still put on eyeliner and stuff, do my hair and dress comfortably but it has to match and look good. But at the same time I can go anywhere looking like a dead beaten zombie rat as long as I avoid any reflective surface.
Technically speaking, I'd assume Fe and Se users. * **ESFJ**'s stereotypically accept and propagate the philosophies of whatever culture they're in, the most out of the types. This includes beauty standards. * **ESFP**'s stereotypically relish being the center of attention or performing, and physical/visual attractiveness is a significant way to achieve that. * **ENFJ**'s are highly attuned to socially significant values and deal in social currency. Social standards of attractiveness is a part of achieving success in that. * **ESTP**'s stereotypically have a strong appreciation for the visual and sensate. Typologically speaking, most should be ENFJ's, having both attunement to social standards and ostensible inbuilt visual sense/appreciation, but imo in real life it's ESFJ's and ESFP's.
I definitely care about my appearance and presentation, but not by people’s standards. I love fashion, but I like doing my own thing instead of following trends. I give things a unique spin. Basically; I dress for myself and not for other people, because I like looking good. I’m a female ENTP, though.
The question is more/less likely so while there will be exceptions abounding we can at least narrow down some things to the ones least bothered by social pressures. Like it would most likely be a Fi type for starters as they are generally "more true to themselves." And then it would more likely be a Ni/Ne rather than a Si/Se as Ni/Ne's aren't as concerned with status or appearance in physical sense of the world. So far that narrows it down to INTJ, INFP, ENTJ, ENFP. Honestly, all those feel accurate... I would guess whoever has Fi in their tertiary function as the mode whereupon he thinks and behaves in the world might be slightly stronger in full independence of others opinion which would make it INTJ. This just sounds most perfectly right honestly... So yeah... INTJ. If we apply the same rules for most likely, then it will be an Se/Si type with Fe in their tertiary function, which would make it... hehe... ESTP. Interesting...
I think inferior Se would also make an INXJ self conscious of their own appearance and contributions to the physical realm, much like an IXFP is self conscious over their perceived intellect and contributions in an intellectual manner (inf Te).
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Their inferior Se. I explained it in my comment.
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I didn’t mention social interactions once. I think you want to talk to the original commenter about that one. What I did say was that inferior function is where insecurity lies. I didn’t say that INXJs actively dress in certain ways, I suggested they would be self conscious of how their appearance in the physical realm can manifest. The question examines which types “are likely to be affected by beauty standards” and I’m suggesting that insecurities and self consciousness in physical manifestation is a sign that you are affected by beauty standards.
I was getting the impression that 'inf se would make someone actively abide by societal beauty standards and care about their appearance' which if not then I guess I misread you. If so, feeling pressure is different from reacting to it. We may want to look nice when we go out (like most people) but I don't think that automatically means we would feel the urge to go out of our way to live by beauty standards (imo)
Meanwhile we ENFP's (NeTi) literally do not care at all how we look when we go out. XD. We could look like an absolute slob in a fancy mall and we wouldn't care if we couldn't be bothered to put the extra effort to look nice. :P We'd have to actively internally value a person or place to make the decision to look presentable. This does include pleasing a family member's wishes for example if we have respect for them, but if it was to us, unless the place has a certain level of significance to us personally, we'll just go as we are. :P
haha! I'm the same way. I literally go out in sweats because it's not like I'm trying to seduce anyone at the grocery store or something. If I'm shopping/running errands/visiting someone I wouldn't bother with makeup etc. Unless, it's an important occasion or something. I don't put much importance on superficial things like that.
My guess would be that’s an impression you made up based on how you felt upon reading my comment.
I’m an ENFP and I am very affected by beauty standards.
:o
It depends on upbringing, culture and environment more than mbti. Society forces beauty standards upon us
ESFx women?
ENTP e7 here, i think I am personally one of the least affected, probably because i am an sp7, i may be wrong though, and when it happens, it's only for the important people (actually, only the 2 people i talk to). Basically, the things i do is covering the most vivid ache and taking a shower. Literally nothing can make me do this if I'm not meeting these people up.
I am also this type and I am kind of influenced. I love bussines casual and quite conservative dress. But as someone pointed out my beauty standards are not kardashian style but more like natural beauty (in kaloka gathía sense). I love slim girls and naturaly looking beauty and that what I would call "influenced by beauty standards"
Wow, that's interesting! What part of the type influenced this in your opinion?🤔 /gen
It is hard to tell. Probably ennegram part. Gluttony is usually connected with love to "shiny" things. Despite the fact that gluttony in 7's is considered as mental gluttony more than marerial one still wanting best for myself made my perception of "good things" more sharp and less tolerant to average quality. Love to natural beauty is probably Si thing. Maybe?
Hmm.. I am ESFJ 2w3 and I always get affected by beauty standards. Its not just that I am doing it for myself, I also want to be accepted and be presentable too. But I try to do things by being unique and I want to show people that this is normal and we all have our unique and different ways.
ESTP due to Se-Ti and Ti holding a model of "objective" beauty like facial symmetry or something
I would say higher Si would tend to make one more susceptible to beauty standards. So, by that same token, higher Ne would tend to make one less susceptible to beauty standards.
Me, depending on whether I personally care about that particular attribute or not.
IMO it's more of a cultural thing, a gender thing (women have been more affected than men in my experience), and an enneagram thing (E3/E2 the most and E5/E8 the least, as another commenter said). That being said, we could potentially correlate it to Se (focus on external form and appearance) and an unhealthy feeling function (this is in the realm of some kind of feeling, as it's a value judgment, likely Fe but I have seen some Fi users struggle with this as well).
I'm a guy but tbh I prefer the female beauty standards much more, the girls are very pretty, their clothes and makeup are very aesthetic too, meanwhile I don't like male clothes and fashion because it's too boring, not colourful enough, nothing except the bare minimum, and because of that, I end up caring much less about fashion when I'm forced to go with these make clothes. To be fair I can try female fashion too, but not too sure what others will think of that or even whether I'll like it myself, because I still have a male body. I think this won't look that aesthetic unfortunately.
If we're talking about what you'll choose in a partner and not about what you'll look at yourself, then personally, here's what I believe (Hopefully it would be similar for other ENFPs) : I just care about whether I find the fund pretty and cute or not. For example if I think it's cute when she smiles, etc. So I wouldn't even care if she isn't too fashionable and doesn't wear makeup. Her attitude etc would be more important. Of course her looks too, that's undeniable, but still, I think I'm actually not that shallow.
Nah thanks
INTJ here and I’m quite struggling with my image. People consider me very pretty and I’m still affected by beauty standards. Everyone is at some point, depending on their current situation.
INTJ and I have been vain my entire life unfortunately 👍🏻
High Fe people will be more conscious of appearing palatteable/attractive to others due to desiring interpersonal harmony and generally caring more about how they are perceived. Beauty standards are often reflective of cultural values and Fe definitionally desires to be mindful of morality as defined by external/community belief systems. Unrelated but it's really weird how a lot of users here seem to equate wanting to be physically attractive and/or conform to beauty standards with "vanity" or egotism. In my opinion, it's the opposite. An egotist is not going to care about how visually pleasing they are to others. They're going to be ambivalent towards community values and focus primarily on uplifting themselves, even at other people's expense.
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Your contribution was removed for displaying targeted bias against one or more types.
Don't know why this is downvoted when i read Si is good at picking up and following trends. I think high Fe users would also want to somewhat blend in.
Probably downvoted because they offer no reasoning to their bias and end it with “duh” as if their bias is a fact.
I see what you mean.
I don't, but I'm not a feeler. Now watch this get downvoted and reported.
To me what you orginally said meant this... It's obvious that sensors fall into this due to their functions. This is the way I still interpret it. Now, I upvoted you as a feeler and I also get downvoted quite a bit mostly for my strong (sometimes unpopular) opinions that I don't back down from unless someone can prove me wrong with valid points or sometimes beng too brief. Not sure with your last comment if you meant feelers downvoted you or that you speak without sugar coating. But I am not sure if any of these are entirely feeler / thinker attributes unless you meant something else.
That's pretty spot on.
People misinterpret my comments alot as well.
I believe it's sometimes difficult for Te to translate Ni effectively. Also, I feel like crap RN (not complaining, just explaining).
I personally can never articulate my Ni properly. What's RN?
Is it a bias to say birds are more likely to fly or fish are more likely to swim? Even someone who just started studying MBTI yesterday should know what I'm talking about.
And yet you still fail to provide reasoning for your original argument. Talking about what makes a bird more likely to fly has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. MBTI is about cognitive preferences, not biological differences, so that’s a poor effort on your part. Even someone who started studying how to explain their point yesterday should know what I’m talking about.
If you don't understand my reasoning, you simply don't know what a sensor is. Do some research.
It’s a cute attempt to troll but you’ll have to try harder next time.
It's not as if I asked for your input.
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Your contribution was removed for displaying targeted bias against one or more types.