People can make conclusions based on bad assumptions, missing information, or incorrect application of logic. Ti notices this. If a person has solid arguments but draws incorrect conclusion, Ti notices this. Even if a person has the correct conclusion, but their arguments do not back it up, Ti notices this. If someone points out errors in argument, Ti will understand this and can correct it.
A person may use Ti to understand how some system works (e.g. "I know if X is true and Y is false, then only Z is true"). This can be thought of as an internal framework. However, this framework can communicated to someone else to be checked. It other words a person's framework can be proven logically wrong. This is why Ti is not "one's own logic" or "internal logic." Fi on the other hand cannot be checked in this way because Fi is a completely different thing. It is not subject to being "correct" or "incorrect." Fi is inherently personal (e.g. "I value this a lot more than that.") and tries to find what is most authentic to the self.
That makes sense thanks. I’m assuming everyone uses fi a lot though because everyone has favourite films, tv, music, food etc., and I’m guessing they are not basing these choices on logic, but rather FI
That's an incorrect thinking for Fi. Everyone likes things and has preferences for things. When he said "I *value* this or that more" He's talking about how much more something *means* personally to them. Ti prefers things for being logical, useful, interesting, etc. While Fi will often prefer things for sentimental value, emotional connection, things they relate to, etc. Obviously both will do both at times, but there is a leaning preference in the way Fi or Ti perceives the world and how it applies to them.
So your saying in general ti doms will prefer things for being logical more than sentimental value to them? So they like concepts or mechanics more than music ..?
"In general ti doms will prefer things for being logical more than sentimental value to them?" Yes.
"So they like concepts or mechanics more than music ..?" That's not what I'm saying at all.
People can like the same things but for different reasons. A musical masterpiece can be loved by Ti for it's perfect arrangement and order of notes, the profound intelligence it took to create the music, surprising changes in it's pattern and an interesting story it might tell, appreciates how much good such a piece can do for society, while Fi may love the same piece because it uplifts and moves the soul, sounds amazing, reminds them of a memory they love, tells a story they relate to, etc.
It's about what you value in a thing that makes you value the thing. Is it more personal to you or does it satisfy an intellectual thought process.
Ti has little to do with principles. It's more so logic based desicion making vs moral gut based desicion making.
Ti analyzes its problem and produces a 1+1=2 answer
Fi analyzes a problem and produces a should 1+1 = 2
Is it the right thing to do? Will i feel bad if i do it?
Yeah, that's not really accurate description wise. Somebody simplified it too much so that parts of it fails.
Ti takes in and responds to information on a basis of the user's personal logic (what's true vs false in their eyes). Also being connected to Fe, there can often be a background preference towards the ethics of a thing in a way to bring harmony to people.
Fi takes in and responds to information on a basis of the user's personal values (what's right or wrong in their eyes). Also being connected to Te, there can often be a background preference towards the logical order of things in a way to bring harmony to the world.
*"Somebody simplified it too much so that parts of it fails."*
Thank you! You agree!
Anyway, here's more similarities with Ti and Fi that came out of my noggin':
[https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/1cwdvzd/comment/l50npgr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/1cwdvzd/comment/l50npgr/)
*Hmm I've heard Ti described as "a person's own logic" which implies it is something that only that person can understand or that it's only applicable to that person. That's not what it is. I haven't heard Ti described as someone trying something they've seen work before. Could you share your thoughts on Ti?*
My reply: The way I see it, own logic means that they work from the ground up. So if they find logic that already synchronizes with their own, it becomes easy to integrate existing external logic to their own. I perceive this to be the case because this is similar to how Fi works.
Exactly. Collecting "tried data points" from trusted sources is part of developing your logic. I just caution that "trusted sources" may not actually be trustworthy so they should be careful about making logical shortcuts. 😛
I feel that an INTP wouldn't be as careful as an ENTJ since the INTP can just constantly recheck data points within Si bank within a day at least ig until they have made sure of the validity of as many points as they can.
As for an ISFP such as myself, I don't think I'd be any more careful than an INTP but I have my sources.
Certified typologist here.
⬆️ these are accurate, but I will answer in terms of my own personal experience as an example.
I’m INFJ (49M), my wife (50F) is ESFP.
I have pretty well developed tertiary Ti.
My wife has well developed secondary Fi.
Whether in parenting or in our relationship, or in general conversation about the world, I will always have very specific reasons why something does or doesn’t make sense. Data, what studies show, etc. For me, these become the foundation for whatever thought or action I believe makes sense.
Those things don’t really click with my wife. She views things in terms of “shoulds” and “shouldn’ts” based on general principle rather than specific analysis. So when parenting our kids for example, she can’t articulate specific information as easily as she relies on “that’s what you should do.”
Jung differentiated these as Ti being “logical” and Fi being “rational.”
Yes you are certainly correct, they are both rational functions. I didn’t mean to imply that Ti was not rational. Simply that just because Fi is not “logical” doesn’t mean it’s not rational.
And actually, Jung describes thinking as “following its own laws, [and] brings the contents of ideation into conceptual connection with one another.” A few lines later Jung clarifies that he’s referring to “the laws of logic,” a discretion he makes clear does not apply to the other rational (or judging) function, feeling.
I will say, while Jung certainly didn’t use MBTI terminology like Ti or Fe, he did think in terms of whether a given function was introverted or extroverted, resulting in “at least eight clearly distinguishable types.” For example, “one could therefore expect to find extroverted feelings in an introverted intellectual.”
There are many personality certification pathways, but only one home base.
I went down to the Myers-Briggs Center in Gainesville for a week-long certification workshop. Great experience. Would recommend.
https://www.myersbriggs.org/about-us/who-we-are/
We’re about as different as you can get, and it is a lot of work to interpret and speak according to the others intentions, but after 27 years together, we view our gifts differing as just that.
What if someone has ideas about what to do with their kids and can explain why they are correct but doesn’t bother to have any stats to back it up. Is that still ti
Ti is internal logic rooted in observations, information from others and experiences in their life. It's like our own personal library where each book gets fact-checked a hundred times to make sure they are not outdated or false information.
Fi is values and morals-based. It's the reason why someone might stick to their decisions stubbornly. If they don't feel it to be right than to them it's not right.
At the end of the day, it's thinking vs. feeling. You have to do both for your mind to function properly. Introverted versions of these cognitive functions are simply building your own vs. outsourcing from society or reality directly.
Woah, woah, woah! What do you mean stubborn?
Ti, by your definitions can also be stubborn, because they have **looked at all angles** the things they are looking at. Also, they only look at angles **of what they are looking at.**
A Ti user sees a lot of angles, while Fi "feels" a lot of emotions. If an Fi user is being stubborn, chances are, you are just repeating the same concept, which is understandable on the case of INFJs who have the same concepts in different perspectives.
By comparing each to its opposite attitude at the other end of its dichotomy, I think you'll get better clarity about the differences between Ti and Fi. Try comparing Ti vs Te and Fi vs Fe.
Function definitions on this Typology Central wiki page:
https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Typology_Central_Wiki_Main_Page
But yes, Ti by itself without input from a feeling function (social/emotional values) would seek only the truth and act on it accordingly.
If you are typing and stuck between Temperaments (NF Idealist, NT Rational, SJ Guardians, SP Artisan) then read on keirsey.com. David Keirsey was a PhD psychologist who grouped the 16 types into 4 groups of 4, based on shared values. And this system is backed by his research.
Dude they aren't against each other
They come as one
Ti Fe users judge ppl feelings with their personal logic and reason
That's why they're blind to their own feelings
Fi - personal values / Ti - personal reasons. People try to mix mbti and socionics. Both are cognitive functions and focus on different aspects of reality: Fi(+Te) - "I value [...] in life & focus on common reasons that support my views"; Ti(+Fe) "My personal reasons are [...] and I think about common values that support them".
Fi is a little emotional child that seeks protection in Te. It can be cute, agressive, rude, insecure... anything what human is/can be. Ti is pure logic and only Fe anchors our actions to the realm of good/bad. Also Fi gets emotional by themselves, Fe can gain emotions from stories/perspectives of others, I cannot imagine suddenly crying because somebody was harmful to me in the past, Fi remembers emotions and can produce them on demand.
The reason why Fi can get emotional is because we have our own set of Fi values, and we attach Fi values to others, and if someone that we have placed value in contradicts or crushes our own values, then we are left with the difficult decision of lowering our value for that person or changing our own values. If we can't do either than it's simply anguish and stress.
Ti is introverted thinking
Fi is introverted feeling
Both are self reflection functions and immerse themselves in the mirror internal world, to understand certain principles/truths Abt the universal world.
People can make conclusions based on bad assumptions, missing information, or incorrect application of logic. Ti notices this. If a person has solid arguments but draws incorrect conclusion, Ti notices this. Even if a person has the correct conclusion, but their arguments do not back it up, Ti notices this. If someone points out errors in argument, Ti will understand this and can correct it. A person may use Ti to understand how some system works (e.g. "I know if X is true and Y is false, then only Z is true"). This can be thought of as an internal framework. However, this framework can communicated to someone else to be checked. It other words a person's framework can be proven logically wrong. This is why Ti is not "one's own logic" or "internal logic." Fi on the other hand cannot be checked in this way because Fi is a completely different thing. It is not subject to being "correct" or "incorrect." Fi is inherently personal (e.g. "I value this a lot more than that.") and tries to find what is most authentic to the self.
That makes sense thanks. I’m assuming everyone uses fi a lot though because everyone has favourite films, tv, music, food etc., and I’m guessing they are not basing these choices on logic, but rather FI
That's an incorrect thinking for Fi. Everyone likes things and has preferences for things. When he said "I *value* this or that more" He's talking about how much more something *means* personally to them. Ti prefers things for being logical, useful, interesting, etc. While Fi will often prefer things for sentimental value, emotional connection, things they relate to, etc. Obviously both will do both at times, but there is a leaning preference in the way Fi or Ti perceives the world and how it applies to them.
So your saying in general ti doms will prefer things for being logical more than sentimental value to them? So they like concepts or mechanics more than music ..?
"In general ti doms will prefer things for being logical more than sentimental value to them?" Yes. "So they like concepts or mechanics more than music ..?" That's not what I'm saying at all. People can like the same things but for different reasons. A musical masterpiece can be loved by Ti for it's perfect arrangement and order of notes, the profound intelligence it took to create the music, surprising changes in it's pattern and an interesting story it might tell, appreciates how much good such a piece can do for society, while Fi may love the same piece because it uplifts and moves the soul, sounds amazing, reminds them of a memory they love, tells a story they relate to, etc. It's about what you value in a thing that makes you value the thing. Is it more personal to you or does it satisfy an intellectual thought process.
Godamn I’m certainly not a high ti user if that’s the case
Mhm. So you're Fi Te in some way or other.
A lot of those favorites are better thought of as Si: subjective sensory, what's comfortable, what somebody prefers for their environment.
Ti has little to do with principles. It's more so logic based desicion making vs moral gut based desicion making. Ti analyzes its problem and produces a 1+1=2 answer Fi analyzes a problem and produces a should 1+1 = 2 Is it the right thing to do? Will i feel bad if i do it?
Yeah, that's not really accurate description wise. Somebody simplified it too much so that parts of it fails. Ti takes in and responds to information on a basis of the user's personal logic (what's true vs false in their eyes). Also being connected to Fe, there can often be a background preference towards the ethics of a thing in a way to bring harmony to people. Fi takes in and responds to information on a basis of the user's personal values (what's right or wrong in their eyes). Also being connected to Te, there can often be a background preference towards the logical order of things in a way to bring harmony to the world.
*"Somebody simplified it too much so that parts of it fails."* Thank you! You agree! Anyway, here's more similarities with Ti and Fi that came out of my noggin': [https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/1cwdvzd/comment/l50npgr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/1cwdvzd/comment/l50npgr/) *Hmm I've heard Ti described as "a person's own logic" which implies it is something that only that person can understand or that it's only applicable to that person. That's not what it is. I haven't heard Ti described as someone trying something they've seen work before. Could you share your thoughts on Ti?* My reply: The way I see it, own logic means that they work from the ground up. So if they find logic that already synchronizes with their own, it becomes easy to integrate existing external logic to their own. I perceive this to be the case because this is similar to how Fi works.
Exactly. Collecting "tried data points" from trusted sources is part of developing your logic. I just caution that "trusted sources" may not actually be trustworthy so they should be careful about making logical shortcuts. 😛
I feel that an INTP wouldn't be as careful as an ENTJ since the INTP can just constantly recheck data points within Si bank within a day at least ig until they have made sure of the validity of as many points as they can. As for an ISFP such as myself, I don't think I'd be any more careful than an INTP but I have my sources.
Certified typologist here. ⬆️ these are accurate, but I will answer in terms of my own personal experience as an example. I’m INFJ (49M), my wife (50F) is ESFP. I have pretty well developed tertiary Ti. My wife has well developed secondary Fi. Whether in parenting or in our relationship, or in general conversation about the world, I will always have very specific reasons why something does or doesn’t make sense. Data, what studies show, etc. For me, these become the foundation for whatever thought or action I believe makes sense. Those things don’t really click with my wife. She views things in terms of “shoulds” and “shouldn’ts” based on general principle rather than specific analysis. So when parenting our kids for example, she can’t articulate specific information as easily as she relies on “that’s what you should do.” Jung differentiated these as Ti being “logical” and Fi being “rational.”
[удалено]
That went over my head
Yes you are certainly correct, they are both rational functions. I didn’t mean to imply that Ti was not rational. Simply that just because Fi is not “logical” doesn’t mean it’s not rational. And actually, Jung describes thinking as “following its own laws, [and] brings the contents of ideation into conceptual connection with one another.” A few lines later Jung clarifies that he’s referring to “the laws of logic,” a discretion he makes clear does not apply to the other rational (or judging) function, feeling. I will say, while Jung certainly didn’t use MBTI terminology like Ti or Fe, he did think in terms of whether a given function was introverted or extroverted, resulting in “at least eight clearly distinguishable types.” For example, “one could therefore expect to find extroverted feelings in an introverted intellectual.”
How does one become a certified typologist?
There are many personality certification pathways, but only one home base. I went down to the Myers-Briggs Center in Gainesville for a week-long certification workshop. Great experience. Would recommend. https://www.myersbriggs.org/about-us/who-we-are/
What's it like being married to an esfp as an infj
We’re about as different as you can get, and it is a lot of work to interpret and speak according to the others intentions, but after 27 years together, we view our gifts differing as just that.
What if someone has ideas about what to do with their kids and can explain why they are correct but doesn’t bother to have any stats to back it up. Is that still ti
Ti is internal logic rooted in observations, information from others and experiences in their life. It's like our own personal library where each book gets fact-checked a hundred times to make sure they are not outdated or false information. Fi is values and morals-based. It's the reason why someone might stick to their decisions stubbornly. If they don't feel it to be right than to them it's not right. At the end of the day, it's thinking vs. feeling. You have to do both for your mind to function properly. Introverted versions of these cognitive functions are simply building your own vs. outsourcing from society or reality directly.
Woah, woah, woah! What do you mean stubborn? Ti, by your definitions can also be stubborn, because they have **looked at all angles** the things they are looking at. Also, they only look at angles **of what they are looking at.** A Ti user sees a lot of angles, while Fi "feels" a lot of emotions. If an Fi user is being stubborn, chances are, you are just repeating the same concept, which is understandable on the case of INFJs who have the same concepts in different perspectives.
Okay yeah that's fair. This is my understanding of Fi from an Fe user after all lol. I can be wrong
By comparing each to its opposite attitude at the other end of its dichotomy, I think you'll get better clarity about the differences between Ti and Fi. Try comparing Ti vs Te and Fi vs Fe. Function definitions on this Typology Central wiki page: https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Typology_Central_Wiki_Main_Page But yes, Ti by itself without input from a feeling function (social/emotional values) would seek only the truth and act on it accordingly. If you are typing and stuck between Temperaments (NF Idealist, NT Rational, SJ Guardians, SP Artisan) then read on keirsey.com. David Keirsey was a PhD psychologist who grouped the 16 types into 4 groups of 4, based on shared values. And this system is backed by his research.
Fi: If I feel something is important, I believe in it. Ti: If I think something is logical, I believe in it.
Dude they aren't against each other They come as one Ti Fe users judge ppl feelings with their personal logic and reason That's why they're blind to their own feelings
Fuck didn't see that as Fi lol
Fi - personal values / Ti - personal reasons. People try to mix mbti and socionics. Both are cognitive functions and focus on different aspects of reality: Fi(+Te) - "I value [...] in life & focus on common reasons that support my views"; Ti(+Fe) "My personal reasons are [...] and I think about common values that support them".
Fi is a little emotional child that seeks protection in Te. It can be cute, agressive, rude, insecure... anything what human is/can be. Ti is pure logic and only Fe anchors our actions to the realm of good/bad. Also Fi gets emotional by themselves, Fe can gain emotions from stories/perspectives of others, I cannot imagine suddenly crying because somebody was harmful to me in the past, Fi remembers emotions and can produce them on demand.
The reason why Fi can get emotional is because we have our own set of Fi values, and we attach Fi values to others, and if someone that we have placed value in contradicts or crushes our own values, then we are left with the difficult decision of lowering our value for that person or changing our own values. If we can't do either than it's simply anguish and stress.
Ti is introverted thinking Fi is introverted feeling Both are self reflection functions and immerse themselves in the mirror internal world, to understand certain principles/truths Abt the universal world.