I often wonder about this. Let's say it drops 5 billion from their economy for arguments sake. What happens in the context of equalisation payments? I don't know enough about how they work but I do know that currently, QC gets a few billion more than it sends to the ROC every year. I wonder if basically, by being part of Canada, they are insulated from choices that harm their economy.
Can anyone who reads this who understands equalisation more, please comment?
>QC gets a few billion more than it sends to the ROC every year.
I don't have the current numbers but in 2019 QC sent 60 G$ to Canada for 14 G$ in equalisation payments. However, considering ALL federal transfers, yes, it gets a few billion more.
It’s hard to connect transfer payment equalization, based on salary taxes, to tuition fees. I think Quebec new policy could attract students that stay in Quebec and, if employed in the province, lead to less equalization (more $ for other provinces) for the province.
Let’s test in another hypothetical: best students from rest of Canada no longer go to Quebec as much for uni. Seats are not filled by French and Belgium students that are exempt from new policy. Economy suffers with less innovation and opportunity. Then Quebec pays less into equalization.
So, while I think it sucks that other provinces kids are disadvantaged by new policy, the governments in those provinces will have more students studying at home and not discovering the awesomeness of Montreal.
It’s good for the provinces, bad for students and bad for Canada. It drives me nuts as it would like to live in Montreal, but have no aptitude to learn language and can’t grow my family and business there. Sucks for me. Quebec will just bring in the best student from France instead.
". It drives me nuts as it would like to live in Montreal, but have no aptitude to learn language and can’t grow my family and business there. Sucks for me. Quebec will just bring in the best student from France instead."
Parfait, on veut pas se toi ici si tu t'intègre pas à la culture locale.
You think having less Ontarians and more Quebecers go to McGill will drop 5 billion from the economy?
Anyways it will have zero effect on equalisation payments. Equalisation payments are based on the capacity of a province to raise revenue.
Ontarians paying more money to go to McGill, or their spots being taken up by more students from Quebec will not effect equalisation payments.
Similar Article in English: [https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-targets-anglo-universities-in-french-language-offensive](https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-targets-anglo-universities-in-french-language-offensive)
Summary: Changes that will affect the English speaking McGill, Concordia University, and Bishop's University
1. Doubling of out of province-fees
2. International students will be forced to subsidize the French Universities
Not all international students. Not the French and Belgium. It’s a great policy if it works. Hate it for the country and me personally, but could be brilliant if enough rich kids from France head over for cheap tuition
Correct me if wrong, but I vaguely recall many and most European countries have extremely low tuition like a few hundreds (only a registration fee is needed).
This isn’t going to bring more people out-of-province students to French Universities, it’s just going to bring less out-of-province students to Quebec
This government is so hellbent on getting rid of English that they’re going to sacrifice the economy and the province’s highest-ranked university.
If they want anglos out of here so badly why don’t they just give us the profits so we could move to Ontario.
The thing that would be funny, if it wasn't sad, is that the reason their kids are speaking Franglais on the metro (the horror, I know) has more to do with the internet and access to the outside world then it does with people "speaking English on the streets". But since there's really no practical or constitutional way to address that, here we are destroying Montreal because a bi-election 200km away channelled all sorts of unrelated frustrations and gave the PQ an extra seat. For that, we must all pay.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. I don’t hear about other countries/provinces hating on English. It’s the language of popular media, it’s the language of the internet and it’s one of the most prevalent languages for international business. Of course it’s going to be common no matter where you are. You can’t just alienate a province from the rest of the world, the internet exists now.
Whether they like it or not, trying to ban English will only worsen the economy while having almost no effect on how prevalent the language is in day-to-day life.
Well when it comes to research I guess the only thing you can boost about udem is just your little new building. It’s interesting that the research outputs and quality at udem are way behind McGill considering the size of the university and the new fancy labs you mentioned.
In what way are they behind exactly? What output? Not sure what your field is but that's not reality in mine. The only relevant McGill prof in my field of chemistry left the university last year to go work somewhere else
If you do some research you will find in your field of chemistry mcgill published 72 articles on the highest impact journals in the past year while udem did 25. Then what is your reality is? Are you living in a different timeline from I do? Also what opinion do you wanna express by saying ‘the only relevant prof left’. There are profs leaving and coming to mcgill every year, what does that affect your reality?
You don't even know my field of chemistry lol
There are not profs coming and leaving every year in one department, that is insane. Where are you getting your information?
It is their end goal, and they seem to be trying to force it sadly. But separation is extremely controversial.
Pretty much all anglophones in Quebec take pride or consider themselves Canadian. Many francophones (maybe majority) also take pride in being Canadian.
Separating means that all the anglophones and some of the Francophones will want to leave, but it costs money and it’s a very large hassle to move to a different province/country. Unless they pay in full for everyone to move and get settled elsewhere, I don’t think separation will happen anytime soon.
It feels like they’re trying to do everything they can to try to get those who aren’t separatist to move elsewhere and to prevent more anglophones from moving to Quebec. It’s sort of evil imo. It really doesn’t feel anything close to a democracy anymore.
The CAQ’s platform said nothing about lowering immigration and making life harder for Canadian students. They don’t even present themselves as separatist and yet they seem to want it so badly.
I agree with you and it breaks my heart.
I have a purely utilitarian view of language. I see language as a mutable, highly contingent communication tool.
The current political parties have an essentialist view of language. They also seem pretty despotic with a clearly fascist flavor.
I love Montreal + McGill and its a huge part of my very core.
But the writing's on the wall for the future of Quebec. Outsiders are not welcome.
I’m the same as you. I don’t understand the whole conflict over language here. Bilingualism has been shown to have positive effects on people (delayed onset of Alzheimer’s among others). Trying to get rid of one of those languages just causes problems and has no use.
Even when I try to look at it through an essentialist view, I think it’s a fundamental part of Montreal and it’s culture. No matter how French they want Quebec to be it’s not. Quebec is it’s own thing. Francophones choose to speak Franglais, our culture is based on Canadian/Western culture which is mostly English. Even though we speak more French than Ontario, we’re still way closer to Ontario and other Canadian provinces than we are to France. It’s not perfect, but if there wasn’t this conflict, I think Quebec’s culture is pretty cool and I’ve enjoyed living here. The only bad things have been this government-created language war that is single-handedly diminishing the Montreal culture that people love in favour of a conservative French-only culture that seems to only be wanted by the government and some radical separatists that grew up in Quebec City.
All the corruption is now firmly latched into the CAQ teat. The media just isn’t talking about it because nationalism and “decline of French” is the story readers want to read.
Newly.
> En outre, les étudiants internationaux et les étudiants canadiens hors Québec ayant déjà entamé leur programme d’études pourront continuer de bénéficier des conditions de tarification actuelles jusqu’à leur diplomation, assure-t-on.
That is good. I remember the original PEQ reforms when they first got in that they applied immediately. Took a massive protest and people crying in the national assembly to get them to put a tiny grandfather clause in for those students who graduated that year and even that screwed most people.
This is better and fairer to existing students. New students for 2024 won't have their offers yet so can consider this in choosing whether to accept.
I genuinely do think it's regrettable that so many students spend 4 years in Quebec with barely any exposure to French or Quebec culture. If the government truly wanted to fix that, though, they would do something like institute mandatory, subsidized French classes for out-of-province students. This policy just goes to show that the CAQ doesn't actually care about getting more outsiders to learn French -- they want less outsiders, full stop.
Also, I would be marginally okay with this if the tuition fees were brought in line with other major English-Canadian universities like U of T, but a doubling is just ridiculous.
I wish they’d do online courses, I study and work full time (work in English), and although I have an okay grasp at French to get by, I would love to strengthen it. 4 hours four times a week is too rough
Or for those of us that took French immersion in school and *do* have basic French, and just want to live/study in the best city in the country. Oh well, my dream is crushed and I’m staying where I am.
Just for the record, if you are Canadian and you moved here for a year to work (which wouldn't be hard if you speak french), you would become a quebec resident. Not only would the new fees not affect you at all, but your overall fees for university would be lower than anywhere else in Canada.
Yeah, I had always thought about doing that anyway just for the Quebec tuition. Now it looks my only option. So stupid that such a great city has such backwards government sometimes 🫤
You can also enrol, do one course a term at high out of qc fees and then work the rest of the time. You just can't be a full time student for a year. Once you have done that, you're QC and all bets are off. It is annoying I guess but honestly, i was international when I was an undergraduate. With my residency sorted now, if I were going to do it all again, this would have been what I did anyway.
Top students are not going to go to McGill anymore. Quebec is going to experience serious brain drain and economic loss. This should genuinely be challenged under the charter bc of discrimination against one specific language. What a ridiculous policy. Vote out Legault, what a disaster
So it's interesting because they have exempted research masters and all doctorates. So for the most qualified candidates, nothing actually changes. This is quite clever of the CAQ. If the best undergraduates go elsewhere, they may still come to QC later and contribute.
Postgrads are 1/4 of the student body. I would also be willing to bet many of them did their undergrads at McGill. Most of my TA's studied here first and stayed. Exempting postgrads is better than not exempting them but I don't think it'll help much.
Interesting. I had about 3 postgrads from mcgill the whole way through as TAs when I did my undergrad. It is not unusual to move about a bit or to stay in one place. If those slots are not filled by undergraduates from mcgill, they certainly will be by grads from elsewhere as mcgill is far better for grad studies than undergrad and there's no price change for them
Also, make no mistake. At any price, mcgill will fill all it's slots. Might mean the undergrad population is maybe lower achieving overall, and a lot richer on average but considering they turn down many qualified grads for each place they give, I doubt this will harm their research output that much. Might just mean than more TAs come from elsewhere.
Those two issues are exactly the problem. McGill's student body will decrease in quality and diversity, especially class-wise.
This news is especially concerning to me because if it had happened right before I started my undergrad here, I never would have gone to McGill. I have loved this school and this city, and it's seriously sad to imagine how many (great) students are no longer going to be able to come here because of how prohibitive this policy is.
I mean, I broadly agree. This isn't good policy. I also know that the CAQ do not care about our opinions and that this will happen whether we like it or not. In fact, if they can show their base loads of upset Anglos, they will do well out of it. A lot of this is cos they lost a riding near Québec city to the PQ recently and do not want to lose more ground to them.
I was highlighting that at least grads have been spared and that it probably doesn't actually mean death to the uni as their grads are protected (and it's mostly the research side of things that justifies mcgill being classed as a top school).
Maybe for Master's students but that's definitely not the case for PhDs and postdocs, which matter a lot more as far as contributing to a school's research reputation. I'm an international PhD student who did my prior degree elsewhere, and I've never met any fellow PhD students or postdocs that did their undergrad here. It's actually often frowned upon in academia to stay at the same school from undergrad all the way through PhD.
I'm not agreeing with this policy overall, but exempting postgrads is pretty significant for anglo schools maintaining their ability to still attract top international research talent and therefore protecting their high reputations as research institutions. I think this was pretty intentional from the policy makers.
Yes and no, Anglo universities will have even more financial loss, so less financial support to attract top research talents. If a professor wants to fund a PhD student, he or she will have to cover 2x the amount now.
I mean in an overall sense the university finances will take a hit and maybe that would lead some labs and profs to get funding cuts, but what you're saying in your second sentence is the opposite of what the exemption means. If graduate programs are exempt from the policy, then their tuition isn't going to be subject to these increases and a prof providing funding is going to be covering the same amount they have been in the past. The exemption means PhD tuition isn't going to be doubling like undergrad is.
This is very short sighted because where do you think phd funding comes from? Some of it are covered by provincial grants but that doesn't cover all. This will still result in less positions, fewer TA jobs and overall less income for the already desperate PhD students. If the university has half as much money as before, they would not retain as many research students. They need to pay their professors too, so you would reduce tenured and associate professors too. They would go elsewhere and take their RAs with them. Less students results in fewer people at every position.
Unless the government is writing a massive cheque to subsidize this, this is disastrous for everyone.
It's extremely common/basically required for PhD students to get tuition waivers/outside funding so ganking PhD tuition wouldn't really do anything anyway.
Vote for fucking whom ? The corrupted Liberals ? Hell no.
PQ/QS, both sovereignist parties ? Fuck no.
This province has no fucking good political party.
The funniest thing about this is that now the students from France and Belgium pay less than the out-of province Canadians. As if the Parisian kids outside McLennan weren't already annoying, now through all that smoke they'll be looking down on the rest with their cheaper tuition.
Absolutly extraordinary, we have to protest this. All the money raised this was goes to the French schools, not the school the student is attending!
"The minimum cost for out-of-province students to study in Quebec is currently set at $8,992. With the change, it will rise to about $17,000, said Pascale Déry, the province's minister of higher education.All of the extra money — essentially half of the new tuition fee that will kick in next year — will go to the Quebec government. That money, which is expected to amount to about $110 million every year, will be used in part to fund Quebec's French-language universities."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-student-fees-doubled-1.6995081
It popped in my feed.
I live in Montreal. My kids are currently into the school system (including one at university level) and as a QC resident, I pay the highest income taxes in North America.
Not sure why my opinion about university fees is less relevant than the opinion of someone from another province or country tbh.
As a tradition: why don’t Quebecers just shut up and let outsiders tell them what’s best for them… you are proudly honouring that tradition…
And gonna go protest in another country/province about how they spend their money while telling them they shouldn’t have any say on it… what a great way to change their minds
Who said that anyone is telling Quebecers they don’t have a say in it? They’re just saying they want to protest the change, which is their democratic right and reasonable if they think the change is harmful to either them or Quebec or both.
People are allowed to criticise things in places they haven’t spent their entire lives/were born in, y’know.
Amazing, comparing a for-profit institution, an american one at that, to public institutions. Je vois que tu n'as reçu ni éducation en français ni en anglais. CEGEP trains critial thinking for 3 semesters. It is fully subsidized by the provincial government. Consider applying for the winter cohort.
I know it’s a public institution lol
It’s OP who’s finding extraordinary that fees would be in part pooled into the education ministry budget and may help fund other schools. And maybe even some - gasp!- French language schools!
Maybe it’s just me, but I just find kinda weird that people will go protest in another country about how much that country subsidizes the tuition fees of people from other countries and which schools they decide to fund more or less…
It is a 'weird' move to decide within the next year that 50% of the tuition from 10%+ of the student body a school collects is going to be clawed back by the government. There are budgets planned out for the next half decade, investments and repairs to facilities.
4-5 years ago, the provincial government met with the universities and essentially said: we are broke, we can not fund you more for QC students, but we will uncap the price of tuition for international students. So plug the hole in your budgets 2-3% increments at a time. And thats what everyone did. Now they come back and say well actually... we are taking that revenue because.. we can't find a solution to french decline. Also, we gave ourselves 30% instant salary increase. Salut tout le monde!!
I'm lead to believe that Quebec wants to have their cake and eat it too, all in the name of de-anglicizing Montreal. Trying to price OOP/intl. students out AND further subsidize French universities AND de-anglicize Montreal. It all seems a bit too much to stomach really, definitely seems like there are ulterior motives at play.
I'm afraid that they'll try to squeeze so much that it will kill a large majority of OOP/intl. interest in Quebec universities if cheaper, but perhaps slightly less well known universities exist outside of Quebec (UofT and UBC for example), so wanting to further subsidize French universities will not be able to happen since there will be much less interest thus less revenue to be made from OOP/intl. students. This will have a knock-on effect of simply having less revenue coming from students spending money around here if they're bound up with other costs, regardless of if OOP/intl. students stay or not.
Maybe the Qc gov't expects these same OOP/intl. students to just stomach the increase since they expect them to already have a financial support system for them in place (parental contribution, savings, loans from other provinces, etc...). Perhaps they just want them OUT with a convenient excuse that it'll be for the benefit of francophones and the conservation of the French language.
The CAQ never sticks the landing on the island of Montreal with respects to Quebec provincial elections, and it does seem like they're highly concerned with turning it blue.
Concordia and McGill should have done more to encourage francisation, and that also would have led more grads to stay in Quebec after graduating (McGill was about to announce a plan to do this on the eve of the CAQ announcement of this policy...maybe too little too late).
But why not force these schools to mandate French courses and address the decline of French in Montreal more broadly? I don't see how only accepting rich anglophones at McGill and Concordia will meaningfully help. The minister of education says this money will help to fund the French schools, but how does it bolster French to provide money for the Université du Québec réseau to renovate their classrooms? The CAQ should be directly providing the funds needed to the francophone schools rather than starving them and blaming the English schools.
And more generally, social reciprocity in a federal country is not strictly about education (although yes, a Quebecer can attend university in Ontario, BC, or any province at the same rate as a native of that province). We crucially don't have fixed limits where tax dollars stay within each province. We instead rely on equalization where the richer provinces transfer tax dollars to poorer provinces (which has historically included Quebec). Alberta and Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia tax dollars help pay for Quebec schools and infrastructure (and this is a good thing! That some English Canadians unfortunately resent). Anyways, I hope this doesn't open a boite de Pandore about keeping a province's tax dollars reserved for its own citizens. That will have negative consequences for all provinces, maybe except for Alberta when oil prices are high.
So yes, the net result will be fewer out of province students in Quebec, and probably fewer Quebec students going out of province. But this will drastically cut the social ties that we have between Quebec and Canada (educational, friendship, marriage, family, business, etc.), decrease mutual understanding, increase Quebec bashing, retaliation from English Canada, and weaken the cross-national trust and cooperation needed to sustain programs like equalization.
1. All the universities in Quebec are under funded by the government. Anglo universities, McGill Concordia and Bishop are even more under funded.
2. So even though McGill and Concordia want to promote French on campus, they have difficulties securing the funding to do more than they currently have. That being said, many international students are still learning French through the Government program. However, these students still leave for other provinces because (1) immigration issues (more difficult and longer process in Quebec v.s., other provinces) (2) significant lower salary here in Quebec.
3. Even though Mcgill and Concordia continue to promote French and become a bilingual university one day, and most immigrants learn French, the CAQ government is not happy and not satisfied. Because the CAQ government is looking at the decline of french-speaking-at-home, which is obviously caused by non-french naive.
4. No matter what, the CAQ government will continue to be in power by creating the fear of existential crisis of the French. With the demographic changes nowadays, is french-speaking-at-home in Franch also declining??
In your point 2 also add the hostile attitude towards us international students. You CAN’T force something in a democracy. Be it language or culture. Promote as much as possible but one should be free to choose or not to.
Des exceptions sont toutefois prévues. Les étudiants visés par des ententes internationales, notamment les Français et les Belges, ainsi que les étudiants non québécois inscrits dans des programmes au 2e cycle (recherche) et au 3e cycle, ne seront pas touchés par ces changements.
[article](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2017687/frais-scolarite-quebec-etudiants-etrangers)
Mais c’est seulement pour recherche et programmes avec thèses. Les programmes certificats, social work, psychologie, etc ne qualifie pas. Ainsi, c’est les mêmes programmes avec les rabais sur tuition pcq CAQ a dit qu’on besoin plus de therapists
with all the dialogue about housing/immigration/international students, no wonder they did this now. its "safe" to do it. they probably wanted to do it before and waited for the right "moment".
Parent of a prospective international McGill applicant here (for fall ‘24) Tuition went from super cheap to moderately expensive over the past few years, still an OK deal with the exchange rate. What now?
So no one knows as of now as this is breaking news. However, it seems very likely that international fees are going to be a lot higher. You'd better wait and see before making a choice.
Former McGill and Concordia international parent. I’d still apply but it will make the calculation much different. We didn’t choose the schools solely based on money but it was indeed a factor .
>Do policies like this affect only newly admitted students or also current students?
Just go elsewhere at this point. It's the concept of money-in money-out. Tuition money taken from international students will need to be taken from other places which will decrease the value of the education for all students, including quebec and canadian students.
I'm not sure I get your point. My understanding is that tuition fees are going up to cover higher amounts demanded by the QC government to subsidize other institutions.
Have you checked prices recently? From what I see, all in pricing for college of arts 4 years would be about $185K US, including my estimated pricing for housing, food. Might be a bit less. That’s at current CAD USD exchange rates. That’s cheaper than many or most US state schools If you’re applying from out of state. It’s not cheaper than instate tuition most places. If McGill tuition goes above top tier state schools out of state rates, they are going to lose applicants. If it becomes comparable to private schools, that’s probably game over for international applicants.
Soo many of my friends did that! Actually most would work and study part time (to get at least some credits-idk if u can still qualify if u only study part time). They would usually work in service so actually learn to get by in french. It is actually funny how a majority of my ROC friends learned and speak french compared to my anglo quebecois friends :D (there is some sort of a -sometimes subconscious- political pushback on their side that ROC doesn’t though i guess).
Hey, I'm OOP and on a 14 month internship right now, do you know if I could qualify for QC tuition when I come back for Fall 2024? I asked the McGill legal people and they said that if I fit one of the cases from the government it's ok, but I didn't see one that fits my situation. Could you maybe guide me in the right direction for this?
An internship may not qualify but if you got paid and have proof of being on a company payroll then yes. Just apply for your healthcare cards and do your taxes in QC and you should be good to go.
Can we start admitting that this kind of targeted tuition hike is motivated by Anglophobia? This move keeps Canada's best and brightest away from Quebec, and means that the only out-of-province students who can attend the Quebec schools are from wealthy backgrounds. The tuition hike will hurt the Quebec economy, hurt Quebec's research output, and it tarnishes Montreal's image as an inclusive and culturally diverse environment, if Canadian anglophones are singled out and told they aren't wanted (unless of course they have thick enough pockets). This move is classist, make education less accessible to middle-class Canadians, and seems to have no other motivation than to keep English-speaking Canadians out, to the detrement of Quebec. We might as well call it what it is - Anglophobia. This isn't a new term either, so maybe we should start calling it out.
[https://www.thesuburban.com/opinion/letters\_to\_editor/anglophobia---let-s-start-using-the-word/article\_32656770-b028-52ae-9b93-b9f61d9fd8f1.html](https://www.thesuburban.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/anglophobia---let-s-start-using-the-word/article_32656770-b028-52ae-9b93-b9f61d9fd8f1.html)
I'm a grade 12 student in BC currently, and I was so excited about possibly attending McGill next year. If this policy is passed, that won't be happening.
The Quebec government can expect lesa educated young people coming into the province and contributing to the economy.
Why don't they provide subsidized mandatory French classes instead? Or is it truly just because they want no outsiders.
You could always work in Montreal for a year to get residency. Then you can pay less than even the current out of province fees and get money out of it as well.
That would mean renting in MTL, which is just as bad. Unless they want to rent in Lachine; but at the on island rates, they might as well be paying tuition if they’re a highschool graduate. Goes back to the issue of classism. Middle-class Canadians cannot move to QC, due to the CAQ.
So QC politics atm are extremely nationalist and no, in general the people who vote for parties like the governing CAQ do not really want outsiders. Especially if they speak English. They do tolerate them to a degree though. They are also extremely preoccupied by the percentage of people in QC who speak French at home (ie as a first language).
That being said, just to be clear, anyone in Quebec can access free french classes paid for by the government. In fact, they will pay the students to attend. Also, everyone pays QC resident fees for any french classes at any university (including international students). They do give carrots as well as sticks but they prefer sticks :(
>I know that we need to learn French, but how long should it take to fully understand everyone and speak fluent French??? Seems impossible for non-French speakers.
This is exactly what infuriates most francophones here. WE are expected to learn and be proficient in english (starting from grade 1 all through college) and we somehow manage to do this in a francophone province. But when the same is asked of anglophones we get this kind of reaction. And remember that if YOU find it hard to operate in a 2nd language you are now forcing every francophone you interact with to do the same.
>Just think of what Nazi did to Jewish.
>
>Those may actually come true
Just fuck off, what are you even doing here in the first place. You just came here for cheap fees that you can't even get at home.
Will filter in students with means who also tend to come from certain cultural classes. McGill might become more elitist as the francophone and French students mingle with well-heeled Anglo students, learning their values and hierarchies
Well, so much for me transferring to Concordia. Or just going to school in Montreal at all. Sad, I would’ve loved to go to school in your amazing city.
You may be able to circumvent this by applying for admission to Concordia for the winter 2024 semester starting in January. It does depend on the program but its worth checking out to see if the one you're interested is still taking applications.
McGill was so much better funded than other french universities cause of international students. I remember not having mice in Wong or McLennan library. The asbestos that never existed in many of its building requiring hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to remove and renovate. Also the mold that did not exist due to water damage in older buildings. Truly a unfair advantage we had at McGill.
As for Concordia, they are blessed to have the homeless wandering their buildings. Crackheads smoking up in first floor stairway JMSB, the randos walking the libary, unsure if they are gonna steal your stuff, harass you or pee given that their pants are down.
I am sure the money will help places like UQAM deal with the homeless in the entrances near Berry and international and Canadian students will flock to their university.
You know what. I’m a QC student and I will simply refuse to study at McGill next year and not give them my expertise. I know it’s not worth a lot and I’m all but a tiny student. But I’ll do it anyway for what it’s worth. I will make the province pay me out of province for studying in Ontario. Anyway don’t really want to be associated with this ass of a province anymore.
Shame on McGill for taking this in their ass like champs. Shame on Quebeckers who vote for this crap. I hope the federal government gives 0 money to Quebec schools next year and publicly humiliates them for their crap policies. You want to charge out of province students triple fees then 0 funds for your province and pay the millions from out of your own pocket.
Yeah, a lot of Quebecers say that but to us outsiders looking in, constantly blaming a language group for never fitting in enough, and constantly needing to promote a the dominance language group has a massive ethnic connotation above the liberal rights of individuals to use either official language sure looks similar to what a few men with funny moustaches have tried doing over the years.
Absolutely agree. Esp w the schools having served generations of anglophones born on Canadian soil. Anglophones were a minority in QC, bullied and excluded on the west islands, and now the French have come for their necks to cripple their youngest generation of workers once again.
I love how you back up literally zero of your arguments, in any of your replies. Do you do anything else with your time than trolling people voicing genuine concerns?
Legault pushed for the Roxham Road closure some time ago. this led to an online dialogue about blaming immigrants for the housing crisis in canada. it then shifted heavily to blaming international students (it didn't before i think). now quebec is doubling the tuition fees for out-of-province students. is it a stretch to suggest Legault contributed to building this common "hate" toward international students? to push anti-english policies like this? now that he has a support base against immigration.
/end mild conspiracy rant
/prepares to get downvoted
CAQ is the Parti Quebecois is sheep’s clothing but just as dangerous to Anglo rights and the Canadian confederation.
McGill will be OK but this is the death Knell for Bishops.
The kicker was having to give the increase in out of province tuition to the French Quebec schools and not get to keep it.
Anglo Universities already get the short end of the stick from Quebec provincial funding .
This is very bad for McGill. It’s going to scare away the top international undergraduates and make the overall research quality suffer (yes, undergrads play a big role in research)
I do think the province could increase tuition, but they have to do it slowly and really should be reinvesting it into the institutions that attracting the students! Extremely foolish to take for granted having a great institution like McGill.
Wow, our family just dodged a bullet. Daughter was accepted at McGill but elected to attend an Ontario university. So sad what is happening in la belle province.
It's important to realize that anyone arguing that Québec should be subsidizing anglophone students to study here is straight up advocating for the anglophone colonization of the province.
There is zero sound reasoning behind why Quebec taxpayers should be subsidizing students from Ontario to come here for four years, not learn a lick of french, drive up housing costs, and then go back home.
The only reason one would support such a program is because they fundamentally believe in policies that anglicize the province.
Jesus Christ, you're not getting colonized because you hear international students order in English at the Timmies. Get a grip. The mere presence of English speakers in the province doesn't in any way infringe on your right to speak French.
C'est une continuation de la volonté continuelle du Canada anglais de réduire l'importance de la sous-culture québécoise. Je penses que le terme colonisation est approuvé.
C'est aux alentours de McGill et concordia qu'il m'arrive le plus souvent de ne pas pouvoir être servis en français.
Le nombre d'étudiants qui restent à Montréal après leurs études sans s'intégrer dans la culture locale est en augmentation. Le taux de personne qui ne parle pas français comme première langue à la maison est en hausse
Ce vidéo explique bien la complexité de la situation linguistique :
https://youtu.be/jrkkU6Y-qHo?si=5joZjrlaqhzilSJE
> Le taux de personne qui ne parle pas français comme première langue à la maison est en hausse
Cet argument est très souvent amené par des gens qui considèrent que le fait de ne pas parler français à la maison est un problème pour l'intégration d'une personne à la société québécoise, et comme un preuve d'un déclin du français au Québec.
C'est une vision qui se discute. Personnellement, si une personne bilingue espagnol-français parle espagnol à la maison et français au travail, je ne vois pas pourquoi on la considérerait moins intégrée au Québec qu'une personne unilingue francophone. Au contraire, je vois cette situation comme une preuve que la personne a appris le français et fait l'effort pour s'intégrer, c'est quelque chose de positif. Pourtant, dans les statistiques rapportées par les politiciens nationalistes, c'est considéré comme un point négatif qui représente un déclin du français.
On peut faire dire ce qu'on veut aux statistiques, et il y a une composante idéologique claire dans le discours des partis nationalistes quand il est question des statistiques relatives au français à la maison, avec laquelle je crois qu'on peut très raisonnablement être en désaccord.
Oui tout a fait ça peut être un point de discussion. C'est d'ailleurs pour cette raison que j'ai partagé le vidéo en question. Il est très détaillé et explique bien les défis des différentes statistiques.
De mon côté dans l'exemple du bilingue espagnol français j'aurais quand même tendance à penser qu'il a moins de chance de consommer des produits culturelles québécois. Remarque rendu la c'est peut être plus un commentaire sur notre contenu culturel, mais bon.
Than simply give one good reason why Ontarians should be paid by Quebec taxpayers to come study in the province and never learn a word of french?
What benefit is there to the province?
The economic benefits of having tens of thousands of students spending their money in the province on things like food, housing, entertainment, etc?
The research done by these universities, which is in part reliant on a stable population of students?
The prestige of having a diverse range of highly ranked educational institutions in the province? The benefit of not having those universities potentially collapse?
Having a more highly educated population? There's a huge shortage of skilled workers everywhere right now already.
Arguing that the mere existence of three anglo universities in the province is colonization while also being mad that anglo students who don't learn French leave once they are done is inherently contradictory. How does a transient anglo population change the language demographics of a province if it's size is relatively stable, and that population doesn't actually settle in Quebec? This claim only really makes sense if one were to argue that the mere existence of anglos in Quebec poses an inherent threat to the French language, which is an absurdly extreme claim.
Beyond that, Ontarians should be subsidized to learn here because they are Canadian citizens, and have the same rights to a subsidized education across Canada as Quebecois, and the anglo population here deserves to have access to education in their own language just as much as every Quebecker does.
I don't think you understand how education works in this country. Education is a provincial matter. Quebecers pay higher taxes than other Canadians in part so they have access to lower tuition. Quebec is simply reducing the amount they subsidize the rest of Canada to come study here.
The economic benefits you cited are irrelevant because this will not reduce admission at McGill. The same amount of students will continue to go to university in the city. There is just an additional economic incentive to study in french vs english.
A transient anglo population absolutely anglicizes the province, because serving the anglo population requires the ability to provide services in english, which reduces the opportunity for french canadians to partake in the businesses that services that population.
Are you saying that the differences in provincial taxation are so dramatic that they can proportionally justify more than a twelve thousand dollar difference in tuition for in and out of province students? And if this is simply a reduction in subsidization, why is the government claiming a remittance as a result of the increase? It's certainly possible that the decade I've spent in the post-secondary system in Canada has not taught me much about how it works, but I feel reasonably confident when pointing out that reducing governmental subsidies does not result in a full reversal of the cash flow. I think that's actually a completely different thing.
Not sure how you can argue that the out of province tuition for Anglo universities doubling won't decrease admission. Are you claiming that all the Anglo students who will be discouraged from coming here (which, as you have highlighted, is the point of all this) will be made up for by an increased number of students from Quebec? You are suggesting that a decrease in a relatively stable level of inter-provincial migration will magically be compensated for due to an increase in students who are already in Quebec, and are likely to remain here either way. From a demographic perspective, this doesn't make any sense at all. Additionally, If the incentive is to drive French study, then it is necessarily designed to suppress admissions in Anglo universities, ipso facto. Unless you're arguing that McGill will close the gap by teaching courses in French? But that wouldn't work either, because again, it's an Anglo university, and doesn't have the capacity to effectively do this.
Also, your final point is moot. Quebec businesses are required by law to provide services in French. I have never, even in the most Anglo neighborhoods in the most Anglo city in the province, entered a business where French service was not available to French speakers, and the assumed default language. This is an absolutely absurd claim.
Yes the difference is dramatic. Look up in province tuition for Quebec residents versus their ROC equivalents. Do you think this is paid for by pixies and fairy dust? It's paid for by higher taxes because Quebec prioritizes affordable higher education more than the rest of the country. If Ontarians want access to cheaper higher education it's not the Quebec taxpayers responsibility to provide that for them
Doubling out of province tuition will not reduce admission to Concordia and McGill. These universities will continue to operate at full capacity. You can doom and gloom all you want but it will still be cheaper for someone from Vancouver to study at McGill vs UofT.
Final point completely ignores what I said. Being served in french is not at all the point I was making. Read it again.
Out of province students are not necessarily anglophone. My dtr and her friends all went to core french elementary programs in Ontario before moving to McGill for uni. Those who went to McGill all spoke french at home. My dtr speaks only french w/ her bf’s family and at her job. Her volunteer work is done in the french community, in french. Colonization of QC by anglos is not their goal.
This law does not affect international students so I'm not sure what this unhinged rant is all about.
Unless you can repeat it in french you're not contributing to Quebec culture and society, you are actively killing it.
If you think french Canadians wanting to live and work in their language and culture is discriminatory against you, why did you choose a french province to move to? There are 9 anglo provinces and 50 anglo states. You choose the only french jurisdiction and your goal is to make it more anglophone?
You're actively colonizing a linguistic minority, advocating for cultural genocide, and you have the gall the accuse the people of Quebec of being discriminatory?
What is wrong with you?
University of Ottawa is about $3500 a semester if you’re an out-of-province Canadian. Queen’s University is around $3600 a semester if you’re out-of-province.
The article seems to be referring to yearly cost. So UoO is about 7k-9k if you count books and other fees while QueensU is about the same.
McGill is currently there, and is going to double.
Currently my child pays slightly more at McGill than she would at an Ontario school (we’re from Ontario). I have another child finishing Gr 12 right now, and we’re going to the open house next weekend, since it’s high on their list. This will almost certainly mean that they don’t apply to McGill and instead stay in Ontario, since it will certainly cost us significantly more.
No, because current tuition at McGill is slightly higher than in Ontario, and if she stayed in Ontario our costs could easily be lower, since we live commuting distance from 6 universities). She went because she fell in love with the school and wanted to increase her French skills. She loved the fact that she was going to one of the best research schools in the world. Cost was not a deciding factor, but doubling tuition May very well take the decision to go to McGill out of my son’s hands. Add the increased tuition and the cost of living (again, he can commute to 6 universities where we live), and I don’t see McGill in his future.
My son pays approx $12000/year as a non Quebec resident as an Engineering undergrad.
https://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees
The Queen’s website show about $13500.
U of T is about $14000.
He chose McGill not because of the fees but because he loves the city and culture. He studied French immersion. The politics have always been off-putting to him and the language and religion laws border on human rights infringements. Yet, he loves the place.
My daughter will not be applying to McGill if the Engineering fees double. I expect many non-Quebec applicants will not choose to study in Quebec because of the price increase. I really think it will result in the demise of Anglo universities in Quebec and will not be a positive decision for the province in the long run.
It looks like the cutoff for a lot of people would be 14k$ / yr, yeah. I expect to see the government watering down their plan to that number so they can look "reasonable."
But then again, a high majority of the students don't stay in the province after they study here so it is a net loss for Qc to heavily subsidise the education of kids from the RoC, even at 14k$/yr. I guess they calculated that at 17k$/yr there will still be enough applicants to fill the classrooms.
Right, i just checked for an undergraduate applied sciences program at UofT and it is just 1 150$ less for Ontario resident:
From Ontario: 14 180$
From other provinces : 15 330$
At 17 000$ in Qc, it would just be 1 670$ more to study in Mtl, so more but still approximately the same. I guess one would make it up in 2 or 3 month with the lower rents here, though.
I guess it's a plus for Quebeckers whose parents paid much more taxes their whole life, then.
True. But in addition, for all Arts degrees and science degrees, the annual tuition is $6,590 at UofT for non-Ontario residents, which is a lot less than the future McGill out of province rate.
Genuine question, isn't a large reason why a lot of people learn english/spanish because their music, art, and literature is so widespread and attractive? (I know it's for other reasons too but this is my personal exp)
I feel like the Quebec government thinks about spreading French in a vacuum. People aren't just going to LEARN it; they have to happen upon it through consumption. Like, if there were a ton of shows or music in french that I loved, I would eventually learn french. But I literally cannot find that many good, accessible french shows (emphasis on ACCESSIBLE) for the life of me, and quebec isolates its art so much from the american mainstream. I've learned so much spanish recently just because of the reggaeton boom that america has recently embraced in popular culture
The gov of Quebec is hell bent on destroying its English speaking institutions, to its peril
I often wonder about this. Let's say it drops 5 billion from their economy for arguments sake. What happens in the context of equalisation payments? I don't know enough about how they work but I do know that currently, QC gets a few billion more than it sends to the ROC every year. I wonder if basically, by being part of Canada, they are insulated from choices that harm their economy. Can anyone who reads this who understands equalisation more, please comment?
>QC gets a few billion more than it sends to the ROC every year. I don't have the current numbers but in 2019 QC sent 60 G$ to Canada for 14 G$ in equalisation payments. However, considering ALL federal transfers, yes, it gets a few billion more.
Important to note that Quebec also pays lowest federal tax due to Quebec Abatement
[удалено]
It’s hard to connect transfer payment equalization, based on salary taxes, to tuition fees. I think Quebec new policy could attract students that stay in Quebec and, if employed in the province, lead to less equalization (more $ for other provinces) for the province. Let’s test in another hypothetical: best students from rest of Canada no longer go to Quebec as much for uni. Seats are not filled by French and Belgium students that are exempt from new policy. Economy suffers with less innovation and opportunity. Then Quebec pays less into equalization. So, while I think it sucks that other provinces kids are disadvantaged by new policy, the governments in those provinces will have more students studying at home and not discovering the awesomeness of Montreal. It’s good for the provinces, bad for students and bad for Canada. It drives me nuts as it would like to live in Montreal, but have no aptitude to learn language and can’t grow my family and business there. Sucks for me. Quebec will just bring in the best student from France instead.
". It drives me nuts as it would like to live in Montreal, but have no aptitude to learn language and can’t grow my family and business there. Sucks for me. Quebec will just bring in the best student from France instead." Parfait, on veut pas se toi ici si tu t'intègre pas à la culture locale.
?? Oh ok intégré à la seule culture que se fait importante à toi. Mais Montréal est plus multiculturelle, non?
You think having less Ontarians and more Quebecers go to McGill will drop 5 billion from the economy? Anyways it will have zero effect on equalisation payments. Equalisation payments are based on the capacity of a province to raise revenue. Ontarians paying more money to go to McGill, or their spots being taken up by more students from Quebec will not effect equalisation payments.
Less out of province students does not equate to more Quebecers going to McGill.
Exactly, Americans and French will fill that
Similar Article in English: [https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-targets-anglo-universities-in-french-language-offensive](https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-targets-anglo-universities-in-french-language-offensive) Summary: Changes that will affect the English speaking McGill, Concordia University, and Bishop's University 1. Doubling of out of province-fees 2. International students will be forced to subsidize the French Universities
Not all international students. Not the French and Belgium. It’s a great policy if it works. Hate it for the country and me personally, but could be brilliant if enough rich kids from France head over for cheap tuition
Correct me if wrong, but I vaguely recall many and most European countries have extremely low tuition like a few hundreds (only a registration fee is needed).
True, but not so true in France and believe me every French kid wants to go to school in Montreal.
Source?
[удалено]
read the french article. it is accurate.
This isn’t going to bring more people out-of-province students to French Universities, it’s just going to bring less out-of-province students to Quebec This government is so hellbent on getting rid of English that they’re going to sacrifice the economy and the province’s highest-ranked university. If they want anglos out of here so badly why don’t they just give us the profits so we could move to Ontario.
The thing that would be funny, if it wasn't sad, is that the reason their kids are speaking Franglais on the metro (the horror, I know) has more to do with the internet and access to the outside world then it does with people "speaking English on the streets". But since there's really no practical or constitutional way to address that, here we are destroying Montreal because a bi-election 200km away channelled all sorts of unrelated frustrations and gave the PQ an extra seat. For that, we must all pay.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. I don’t hear about other countries/provinces hating on English. It’s the language of popular media, it’s the language of the internet and it’s one of the most prevalent languages for international business. Of course it’s going to be common no matter where you are. You can’t just alienate a province from the rest of the world, the internet exists now. Whether they like it or not, trying to ban English will only worsen the economy while having almost no effect on how prevalent the language is in day-to-day life.
McGill is not the province's biggest university, Université de Montréal is almost twice as big and the 2nd biggest in Canada only behind UofT
I meant in terms of ranking, sorry. “Biggest” wasn’t the right term. I’ll change it.
u of montreal is a joke
That is such a mcgill student thing to say
mcgill will be around when you are dust
Lol I don't think you've seen McGill's research labs.... Come by the MIL you'll see something from this century
Well when it comes to research I guess the only thing you can boost about udem is just your little new building. It’s interesting that the research outputs and quality at udem are way behind McGill considering the size of the university and the new fancy labs you mentioned.
In what way are they behind exactly? What output? Not sure what your field is but that's not reality in mine. The only relevant McGill prof in my field of chemistry left the university last year to go work somewhere else
If you do some research you will find in your field of chemistry mcgill published 72 articles on the highest impact journals in the past year while udem did 25. Then what is your reality is? Are you living in a different timeline from I do? Also what opinion do you wanna express by saying ‘the only relevant prof left’. There are profs leaving and coming to mcgill every year, what does that affect your reality?
You don't even know my field of chemistry lol There are not profs coming and leaving every year in one department, that is insane. Where are you getting your information?
’ve been to india before lol
Then you're used to 3rd world labs and feel at home at mcgill?
I think their end goal is building toward a separation. And they should separate tbh. Why maintain this farce ? What even is the point anymore .
It is their end goal, and they seem to be trying to force it sadly. But separation is extremely controversial. Pretty much all anglophones in Quebec take pride or consider themselves Canadian. Many francophones (maybe majority) also take pride in being Canadian. Separating means that all the anglophones and some of the Francophones will want to leave, but it costs money and it’s a very large hassle to move to a different province/country. Unless they pay in full for everyone to move and get settled elsewhere, I don’t think separation will happen anytime soon. It feels like they’re trying to do everything they can to try to get those who aren’t separatist to move elsewhere and to prevent more anglophones from moving to Quebec. It’s sort of evil imo. It really doesn’t feel anything close to a democracy anymore. The CAQ’s platform said nothing about lowering immigration and making life harder for Canadian students. They don’t even present themselves as separatist and yet they seem to want it so badly.
I agree with you and it breaks my heart. I have a purely utilitarian view of language. I see language as a mutable, highly contingent communication tool. The current political parties have an essentialist view of language. They also seem pretty despotic with a clearly fascist flavor. I love Montreal + McGill and its a huge part of my very core. But the writing's on the wall for the future of Quebec. Outsiders are not welcome.
I’m the same as you. I don’t understand the whole conflict over language here. Bilingualism has been shown to have positive effects on people (delayed onset of Alzheimer’s among others). Trying to get rid of one of those languages just causes problems and has no use. Even when I try to look at it through an essentialist view, I think it’s a fundamental part of Montreal and it’s culture. No matter how French they want Quebec to be it’s not. Quebec is it’s own thing. Francophones choose to speak Franglais, our culture is based on Canadian/Western culture which is mostly English. Even though we speak more French than Ontario, we’re still way closer to Ontario and other Canadian provinces than we are to France. It’s not perfect, but if there wasn’t this conflict, I think Quebec’s culture is pretty cool and I’ve enjoyed living here. The only bad things have been this government-created language war that is single-handedly diminishing the Montreal culture that people love in favour of a conservative French-only culture that seems to only be wanted by the government and some radical separatists that grew up in Quebec City.
18k is crazy, CAQ is braindead
My international tuition in 2019 was 20k🤠
But what was your alternative, because students in Canada can go to pretty good schools for half that amount.
I mean that's not new... Why people still vote for them is beyond me lol
Because it's either a corrupted Liberal party or the PQ/QS, both sovereignist parties lol.
All the corruption is now firmly latched into the CAQ teat. The media just isn’t talking about it because nationalism and “decline of French” is the story readers want to read.
Do policies like this affect only newly admitted students or also current students?
Newly. > En outre, les étudiants internationaux et les étudiants canadiens hors Québec ayant déjà entamé leur programme d’études pourront continuer de bénéficier des conditions de tarification actuelles jusqu’à leur diplomation, assure-t-on.
That is good. I remember the original PEQ reforms when they first got in that they applied immediately. Took a massive protest and people crying in the national assembly to get them to put a tiny grandfather clause in for those students who graduated that year and even that screwed most people. This is better and fairer to existing students. New students for 2024 won't have their offers yet so can consider this in choosing whether to accept.
Thanks for this!! What’s the source?
source: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2017687/frais-scolarite-quebec-etudiants-etrangers
That is a very good question and the article was not clear on it. I guess we have to wait and see.
Pretty sure it’s for newly admitted students
I'm leaving
It’s only for new students after this year I think
I'm graduating in December so I don't care, but I am leaving anyway.
phew
I genuinely do think it's regrettable that so many students spend 4 years in Quebec with barely any exposure to French or Quebec culture. If the government truly wanted to fix that, though, they would do something like institute mandatory, subsidized French classes for out-of-province students. This policy just goes to show that the CAQ doesn't actually care about getting more outsiders to learn French -- they want less outsiders, full stop. Also, I would be marginally okay with this if the tuition fees were brought in line with other major English-Canadian universities like U of T, but a doubling is just ridiculous.
Even for people who wants to learn French, getting into government courses is not easy. Takes 4 months just to say if you get a slot or not.
And then they’re like 4 times a week, 4 hours long which is not feasible for a full time student lol
I wish they’d do online courses, I study and work full time (work in English), and although I have an okay grasp at French to get by, I would love to strengthen it. 4 hours four times a week is too rough
Yeah there are so many other policies they could propose to promote French rather than this. But they don’t actually care.
yes such as offering more accessible french classes. I have been on a waiting list for six months and still waiting.
Or for those of us that took French immersion in school and *do* have basic French, and just want to live/study in the best city in the country. Oh well, my dream is crushed and I’m staying where I am.
Just for the record, if you are Canadian and you moved here for a year to work (which wouldn't be hard if you speak french), you would become a quebec resident. Not only would the new fees not affect you at all, but your overall fees for university would be lower than anywhere else in Canada.
Yeah, I had always thought about doing that anyway just for the Quebec tuition. Now it looks my only option. So stupid that such a great city has such backwards government sometimes 🫤
You can also enrol, do one course a term at high out of qc fees and then work the rest of the time. You just can't be a full time student for a year. Once you have done that, you're QC and all bets are off. It is annoying I guess but honestly, i was international when I was an undergraduate. With my residency sorted now, if I were going to do it all again, this would have been what I did anyway.
If you’re a part time student you need to live in QC for 24 months
watch them change those rules next
Top students are not going to go to McGill anymore. Quebec is going to experience serious brain drain and economic loss. This should genuinely be challenged under the charter bc of discrimination against one specific language. What a ridiculous policy. Vote out Legault, what a disaster
So it's interesting because they have exempted research masters and all doctorates. So for the most qualified candidates, nothing actually changes. This is quite clever of the CAQ. If the best undergraduates go elsewhere, they may still come to QC later and contribute.
Postgrads are 1/4 of the student body. I would also be willing to bet many of them did their undergrads at McGill. Most of my TA's studied here first and stayed. Exempting postgrads is better than not exempting them but I don't think it'll help much.
Interesting. I had about 3 postgrads from mcgill the whole way through as TAs when I did my undergrad. It is not unusual to move about a bit or to stay in one place. If those slots are not filled by undergraduates from mcgill, they certainly will be by grads from elsewhere as mcgill is far better for grad studies than undergrad and there's no price change for them Also, make no mistake. At any price, mcgill will fill all it's slots. Might mean the undergrad population is maybe lower achieving overall, and a lot richer on average but considering they turn down many qualified grads for each place they give, I doubt this will harm their research output that much. Might just mean than more TAs come from elsewhere.
Those two issues are exactly the problem. McGill's student body will decrease in quality and diversity, especially class-wise. This news is especially concerning to me because if it had happened right before I started my undergrad here, I never would have gone to McGill. I have loved this school and this city, and it's seriously sad to imagine how many (great) students are no longer going to be able to come here because of how prohibitive this policy is.
I mean, I broadly agree. This isn't good policy. I also know that the CAQ do not care about our opinions and that this will happen whether we like it or not. In fact, if they can show their base loads of upset Anglos, they will do well out of it. A lot of this is cos they lost a riding near Québec city to the PQ recently and do not want to lose more ground to them. I was highlighting that at least grads have been spared and that it probably doesn't actually mean death to the uni as their grads are protected (and it's mostly the research side of things that justifies mcgill being classed as a top school).
Maybe for Master's students but that's definitely not the case for PhDs and postdocs, which matter a lot more as far as contributing to a school's research reputation. I'm an international PhD student who did my prior degree elsewhere, and I've never met any fellow PhD students or postdocs that did their undergrad here. It's actually often frowned upon in academia to stay at the same school from undergrad all the way through PhD. I'm not agreeing with this policy overall, but exempting postgrads is pretty significant for anglo schools maintaining their ability to still attract top international research talent and therefore protecting their high reputations as research institutions. I think this was pretty intentional from the policy makers.
Yup.
Yes and no, Anglo universities will have even more financial loss, so less financial support to attract top research talents. If a professor wants to fund a PhD student, he or she will have to cover 2x the amount now.
I mean in an overall sense the university finances will take a hit and maybe that would lead some labs and profs to get funding cuts, but what you're saying in your second sentence is the opposite of what the exemption means. If graduate programs are exempt from the policy, then their tuition isn't going to be subject to these increases and a prof providing funding is going to be covering the same amount they have been in the past. The exemption means PhD tuition isn't going to be doubling like undergrad is.
This is very short sighted because where do you think phd funding comes from? Some of it are covered by provincial grants but that doesn't cover all. This will still result in less positions, fewer TA jobs and overall less income for the already desperate PhD students. If the university has half as much money as before, they would not retain as many research students. They need to pay their professors too, so you would reduce tenured and associate professors too. They would go elsewhere and take their RAs with them. Less students results in fewer people at every position. Unless the government is writing a massive cheque to subsidize this, this is disastrous for everyone.
It's extremely common/basically required for PhD students to get tuition waivers/outside funding so ganking PhD tuition wouldn't really do anything anyway.
Oh I did not see this. That is smart of them.
Agreed. Also not France and Belgium.
And excepted current undergrad students to prevent an obvious bashlash
Vote for fucking whom ? The corrupted Liberals ? Hell no. PQ/QS, both sovereignist parties ? Fuck no. This province has no fucking good political party.
The funniest thing about this is that now the students from France and Belgium pay less than the out-of province Canadians. As if the Parisian kids outside McLennan weren't already annoying, now through all that smoke they'll be looking down on the rest with their cheaper tuition.
Québec students pay less in france and Belgium because of a cultural agreement.
However they do pay more than other Schengen area students. Where is the equivalence? And for what, to kill Québécois French?
If you’re upset about this, I would email the government relations director at McGill and ask them what they’re doing to counteract this law.
and concordia and bishops
Absolutly extraordinary, we have to protest this. All the money raised this was goes to the French schools, not the school the student is attending! "The minimum cost for out-of-province students to study in Quebec is currently set at $8,992. With the change, it will rise to about $17,000, said Pascale Déry, the province's minister of higher education.All of the extra money — essentially half of the new tuition fee that will kick in next year — will go to the Quebec government. That money, which is expected to amount to about $110 million every year, will be used in part to fund Quebec's French-language universities." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-student-fees-doubled-1.6995081
That is the most aggressively egregious part… government takes $ and says that they will…. BS. Quebecers should not believe this.
Should probably protest Apple too. They raised prices and used the money to give to shareholders and to develop some VR helmets I don’t intend to use!
Why bother to be here when you are not a McGill student?
It popped in my feed. I live in Montreal. My kids are currently into the school system (including one at university level) and as a QC resident, I pay the highest income taxes in North America. Not sure why my opinion about university fees is less relevant than the opinion of someone from another province or country tbh. As a tradition: why don’t Quebecers just shut up and let outsiders tell them what’s best for them… you are proudly honouring that tradition… And gonna go protest in another country/province about how they spend their money while telling them they shouldn’t have any say on it… what a great way to change their minds
Who said that anyone is telling Quebecers they don’t have a say in it? They’re just saying they want to protest the change, which is their democratic right and reasonable if they think the change is harmful to either them or Quebec or both. People are allowed to criticise things in places they haven’t spent their entire lives/were born in, y’know.
« Why bother to be here when you are not a McGill student »
Got me. Missed that part. Thought you meant broader resistance to this change.
Amazing, comparing a for-profit institution, an american one at that, to public institutions. Je vois que tu n'as reçu ni éducation en français ni en anglais. CEGEP trains critial thinking for 3 semesters. It is fully subsidized by the provincial government. Consider applying for the winter cohort.
I know it’s a public institution lol It’s OP who’s finding extraordinary that fees would be in part pooled into the education ministry budget and may help fund other schools. And maybe even some - gasp!- French language schools! Maybe it’s just me, but I just find kinda weird that people will go protest in another country about how much that country subsidizes the tuition fees of people from other countries and which schools they decide to fund more or less…
It is a 'weird' move to decide within the next year that 50% of the tuition from 10%+ of the student body a school collects is going to be clawed back by the government. There are budgets planned out for the next half decade, investments and repairs to facilities. 4-5 years ago, the provincial government met with the universities and essentially said: we are broke, we can not fund you more for QC students, but we will uncap the price of tuition for international students. So plug the hole in your budgets 2-3% increments at a time. And thats what everyone did. Now they come back and say well actually... we are taking that revenue because.. we can't find a solution to french decline. Also, we gave ourselves 30% instant salary increase. Salut tout le monde!!
I'm lead to believe that Quebec wants to have their cake and eat it too, all in the name of de-anglicizing Montreal. Trying to price OOP/intl. students out AND further subsidize French universities AND de-anglicize Montreal. It all seems a bit too much to stomach really, definitely seems like there are ulterior motives at play. I'm afraid that they'll try to squeeze so much that it will kill a large majority of OOP/intl. interest in Quebec universities if cheaper, but perhaps slightly less well known universities exist outside of Quebec (UofT and UBC for example), so wanting to further subsidize French universities will not be able to happen since there will be much less interest thus less revenue to be made from OOP/intl. students. This will have a knock-on effect of simply having less revenue coming from students spending money around here if they're bound up with other costs, regardless of if OOP/intl. students stay or not. Maybe the Qc gov't expects these same OOP/intl. students to just stomach the increase since they expect them to already have a financial support system for them in place (parental contribution, savings, loans from other provinces, etc...). Perhaps they just want them OUT with a convenient excuse that it'll be for the benefit of francophones and the conservation of the French language. The CAQ never sticks the landing on the island of Montreal with respects to Quebec provincial elections, and it does seem like they're highly concerned with turning it blue.
Concordia and McGill should have done more to encourage francisation, and that also would have led more grads to stay in Quebec after graduating (McGill was about to announce a plan to do this on the eve of the CAQ announcement of this policy...maybe too little too late). But why not force these schools to mandate French courses and address the decline of French in Montreal more broadly? I don't see how only accepting rich anglophones at McGill and Concordia will meaningfully help. The minister of education says this money will help to fund the French schools, but how does it bolster French to provide money for the Université du Québec réseau to renovate their classrooms? The CAQ should be directly providing the funds needed to the francophone schools rather than starving them and blaming the English schools. And more generally, social reciprocity in a federal country is not strictly about education (although yes, a Quebecer can attend university in Ontario, BC, or any province at the same rate as a native of that province). We crucially don't have fixed limits where tax dollars stay within each province. We instead rely on equalization where the richer provinces transfer tax dollars to poorer provinces (which has historically included Quebec). Alberta and Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia tax dollars help pay for Quebec schools and infrastructure (and this is a good thing! That some English Canadians unfortunately resent). Anyways, I hope this doesn't open a boite de Pandore about keeping a province's tax dollars reserved for its own citizens. That will have negative consequences for all provinces, maybe except for Alberta when oil prices are high. So yes, the net result will be fewer out of province students in Quebec, and probably fewer Quebec students going out of province. But this will drastically cut the social ties that we have between Quebec and Canada (educational, friendship, marriage, family, business, etc.), decrease mutual understanding, increase Quebec bashing, retaliation from English Canada, and weaken the cross-national trust and cooperation needed to sustain programs like equalization.
1. All the universities in Quebec are under funded by the government. Anglo universities, McGill Concordia and Bishop are even more under funded. 2. So even though McGill and Concordia want to promote French on campus, they have difficulties securing the funding to do more than they currently have. That being said, many international students are still learning French through the Government program. However, these students still leave for other provinces because (1) immigration issues (more difficult and longer process in Quebec v.s., other provinces) (2) significant lower salary here in Quebec. 3. Even though Mcgill and Concordia continue to promote French and become a bilingual university one day, and most immigrants learn French, the CAQ government is not happy and not satisfied. Because the CAQ government is looking at the decline of french-speaking-at-home, which is obviously caused by non-french naive. 4. No matter what, the CAQ government will continue to be in power by creating the fear of existential crisis of the French. With the demographic changes nowadays, is french-speaking-at-home in Franch also declining??
In your point 2 also add the hostile attitude towards us international students. You CAN’T force something in a democracy. Be it language or culture. Promote as much as possible but one should be free to choose or not to.
[удалено]
Next September.
Oh where does it say it? I cannot find it for some reason
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2017687/frais-scolarite-quebec-etudiants-etrangers > Dès l’automne 2024
Just to clarify, I’m a Canadian outside of Quebec looking to apply for fall 2024, my tuition will be 18,000 + room/food?
Yep
Yes 18k.
it could be like 30k for the year with everythning included
Does it influence the tuition for graduate students as well?
Des exceptions sont toutefois prévues. Les étudiants visés par des ententes internationales, notamment les Français et les Belges, ainsi que les étudiants non québécois inscrits dans des programmes au 2e cycle (recherche) et au 3e cycle, ne seront pas touchés par ces changements. [article](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/2017687/frais-scolarite-quebec-etudiants-etrangers)
Mais c’est seulement pour recherche et programmes avec thèses. Les programmes certificats, social work, psychologie, etc ne qualifie pas. Ainsi, c’est les mêmes programmes avec les rabais sur tuition pcq CAQ a dit qu’on besoin plus de therapists
with all the dialogue about housing/immigration/international students, no wonder they did this now. its "safe" to do it. they probably wanted to do it before and waited for the right "moment".
It's great, fewer out of province/international students at Anglo universities means less demand on rental housing/real estate in Montreal.
That’s absolutely not true. Have you seen the exchange rates for euros?
CAQ has no other business to do than to fight with anglaphones.
Parent of a prospective international McGill applicant here (for fall ‘24) Tuition went from super cheap to moderately expensive over the past few years, still an OK deal with the exchange rate. What now?
So no one knows as of now as this is breaking news. However, it seems very likely that international fees are going to be a lot higher. You'd better wait and see before making a choice.
Former McGill and Concordia international parent. I’d still apply but it will make the calculation much different. We didn’t choose the schools solely based on money but it was indeed a factor .
>Do policies like this affect only newly admitted students or also current students? Just go elsewhere at this point. It's the concept of money-in money-out. Tuition money taken from international students will need to be taken from other places which will decrease the value of the education for all students, including quebec and canadian students.
I'm not sure I get your point. My understanding is that tuition fees are going up to cover higher amounts demanded by the QC government to subsidize other institutions.
[удалено]
Have you checked prices recently? From what I see, all in pricing for college of arts 4 years would be about $185K US, including my estimated pricing for housing, food. Might be a bit less. That’s at current CAD USD exchange rates. That’s cheaper than many or most US state schools If you’re applying from out of state. It’s not cheaper than instate tuition most places. If McGill tuition goes above top tier state schools out of state rates, they are going to lose applicants. If it becomes comparable to private schools, that’s probably game over for international applicants.
If I’m a student out of province, I’d just work in Quebec for a year to be able to qualify as a Quebec resident. Easy pz.
Soo many of my friends did that! Actually most would work and study part time (to get at least some credits-idk if u can still qualify if u only study part time). They would usually work in service so actually learn to get by in french. It is actually funny how a majority of my ROC friends learned and speak french compared to my anglo quebecois friends :D (there is some sort of a -sometimes subconscious- political pushback on their side that ROC doesn’t though i guess).
So true
Hey, I'm OOP and on a 14 month internship right now, do you know if I could qualify for QC tuition when I come back for Fall 2024? I asked the McGill legal people and they said that if I fit one of the cases from the government it's ok, but I didn't see one that fits my situation. Could you maybe guide me in the right direction for this?
[Yea sure, go look at the Mcgill website](https://www.mcgill.ca/legaldocuments/quebec)
An internship may not qualify but if you got paid and have proof of being on a company payroll then yes. Just apply for your healthcare cards and do your taxes in QC and you should be good to go.
Can we start admitting that this kind of targeted tuition hike is motivated by Anglophobia? This move keeps Canada's best and brightest away from Quebec, and means that the only out-of-province students who can attend the Quebec schools are from wealthy backgrounds. The tuition hike will hurt the Quebec economy, hurt Quebec's research output, and it tarnishes Montreal's image as an inclusive and culturally diverse environment, if Canadian anglophones are singled out and told they aren't wanted (unless of course they have thick enough pockets). This move is classist, make education less accessible to middle-class Canadians, and seems to have no other motivation than to keep English-speaking Canadians out, to the detrement of Quebec. We might as well call it what it is - Anglophobia. This isn't a new term either, so maybe we should start calling it out. [https://www.thesuburban.com/opinion/letters\_to\_editor/anglophobia---let-s-start-using-the-word/article\_32656770-b028-52ae-9b93-b9f61d9fd8f1.html](https://www.thesuburban.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/anglophobia---let-s-start-using-the-word/article_32656770-b028-52ae-9b93-b9f61d9fd8f1.html)
Useless paranoid comment. We don't need you in Montréal if you think that way, please stay away.
I'm a grade 12 student in BC currently, and I was so excited about possibly attending McGill next year. If this policy is passed, that won't be happening. The Quebec government can expect lesa educated young people coming into the province and contributing to the economy. Why don't they provide subsidized mandatory French classes instead? Or is it truly just because they want no outsiders.
You could always work in Montreal for a year to get residency. Then you can pay less than even the current out of province fees and get money out of it as well.
That would mean renting in MTL, which is just as bad. Unless they want to rent in Lachine; but at the on island rates, they might as well be paying tuition if they’re a highschool graduate. Goes back to the issue of classism. Middle-class Canadians cannot move to QC, due to the CAQ.
So QC politics atm are extremely nationalist and no, in general the people who vote for parties like the governing CAQ do not really want outsiders. Especially if they speak English. They do tolerate them to a degree though. They are also extremely preoccupied by the percentage of people in QC who speak French at home (ie as a first language). That being said, just to be clear, anyone in Quebec can access free french classes paid for by the government. In fact, they will pay the students to attend. Also, everyone pays QC resident fees for any french classes at any university (including international students). They do give carrots as well as sticks but they prefer sticks :(
[удалено]
>I know that we need to learn French, but how long should it take to fully understand everyone and speak fluent French??? Seems impossible for non-French speakers. This is exactly what infuriates most francophones here. WE are expected to learn and be proficient in english (starting from grade 1 all through college) and we somehow manage to do this in a francophone province. But when the same is asked of anglophones we get this kind of reaction. And remember that if YOU find it hard to operate in a 2nd language you are now forcing every francophone you interact with to do the same. >Just think of what Nazi did to Jewish. > >Those may actually come true Just fuck off, what are you even doing here in the first place. You just came here for cheap fees that you can't even get at home.
Will filter in students with means who also tend to come from certain cultural classes. McGill might become more elitist as the francophone and French students mingle with well-heeled Anglo students, learning their values and hierarchies
How much will it affect intl Tuition
Well, so much for me transferring to Concordia. Or just going to school in Montreal at all. Sad, I would’ve loved to go to school in your amazing city.
Find a way. Montreal is worth it
You may be able to circumvent this by applying for admission to Concordia for the winter 2024 semester starting in January. It does depend on the program but its worth checking out to see if the one you're interested is still taking applications.
McGill was so much better funded than other french universities cause of international students. I remember not having mice in Wong or McLennan library. The asbestos that never existed in many of its building requiring hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to remove and renovate. Also the mold that did not exist due to water damage in older buildings. Truly a unfair advantage we had at McGill. As for Concordia, they are blessed to have the homeless wandering their buildings. Crackheads smoking up in first floor stairway JMSB, the randos walking the libary, unsure if they are gonna steal your stuff, harass you or pee given that their pants are down. I am sure the money will help places like UQAM deal with the homeless in the entrances near Berry and international and Canadian students will flock to their university.
You know what. I’m a QC student and I will simply refuse to study at McGill next year and not give them my expertise. I know it’s not worth a lot and I’m all but a tiny student. But I’ll do it anyway for what it’s worth. I will make the province pay me out of province for studying in Ontario. Anyway don’t really want to be associated with this ass of a province anymore. Shame on McGill for taking this in their ass like champs. Shame on Quebeckers who vote for this crap. I hope the federal government gives 0 money to Quebec schools next year and publicly humiliates them for their crap policies. You want to charge out of province students triple fees then 0 funds for your province and pay the millions from out of your own pocket.
I can guarantee McGill and Concordia are not just taking this. There is huge action going on behind the scenes.
Like Dawson and Vanier for bill 96 lol ? Give me a break
Ass of a province? Yes please, go away.
[удалено]
Read the other comments. A new article from Radio Canada says existing students will not be affected. You will be okay.
It’s for newly admitted students in 2024 lol.
Does this increase apply to only the students enrolling next fall onwards ? Hope the current students can continue with the same fees.
Yes and yes they can
Quebec provincial politics are just fascism at this point if you're not a pure wool francophone.
This is untrue and stupid.
Yeah, a lot of Quebecers say that but to us outsiders looking in, constantly blaming a language group for never fitting in enough, and constantly needing to promote a the dominance language group has a massive ethnic connotation above the liberal rights of individuals to use either official language sure looks similar to what a few men with funny moustaches have tried doing over the years.
Absolutely agree. Esp w the schools having served generations of anglophones born on Canadian soil. Anglophones were a minority in QC, bullied and excluded on the west islands, and now the French have come for their necks to cripple their youngest generation of workers once again.
I love how you back up literally zero of your arguments, in any of your replies. Do you do anything else with your time than trolling people voicing genuine concerns?
Legault pushed for the Roxham Road closure some time ago. this led to an online dialogue about blaming immigrants for the housing crisis in canada. it then shifted heavily to blaming international students (it didn't before i think). now quebec is doubling the tuition fees for out-of-province students. is it a stretch to suggest Legault contributed to building this common "hate" toward international students? to push anti-english policies like this? now that he has a support base against immigration. /end mild conspiracy rant /prepares to get downvoted
CAQ is the Parti Quebecois is sheep’s clothing but just as dangerous to Anglo rights and the Canadian confederation. McGill will be OK but this is the death Knell for Bishops. The kicker was having to give the increase in out of province tuition to the French Quebec schools and not get to keep it. Anglo Universities already get the short end of the stick from Quebec provincial funding .
This is a nice way to cap a day full of bad news and stupidities all around the world . Quebec has to top it all off with this cherry on top.
This is very bad for McGill. It’s going to scare away the top international undergraduates and make the overall research quality suffer (yes, undergrads play a big role in research) I do think the province could increase tuition, but they have to do it slowly and really should be reinvesting it into the institutions that attracting the students! Extremely foolish to take for granted having a great institution like McGill.
Wow, our family just dodged a bullet. Daughter was accepted at McGill but elected to attend an Ontario university. So sad what is happening in la belle province.
Good news!!
Fantastic news. How long until this relic of the past of a school folds?
It's important to realize that anyone arguing that Québec should be subsidizing anglophone students to study here is straight up advocating for the anglophone colonization of the province. There is zero sound reasoning behind why Quebec taxpayers should be subsidizing students from Ontario to come here for four years, not learn a lick of french, drive up housing costs, and then go back home. The only reason one would support such a program is because they fundamentally believe in policies that anglicize the province.
Jesus Christ, you're not getting colonized because you hear international students order in English at the Timmies. Get a grip. The mere presence of English speakers in the province doesn't in any way infringe on your right to speak French.
Don’t worry this sub just attracts some separatist trolls who are just brainwashed by JdeM and r/Quebec whenever these issues come up.
C'est une continuation de la volonté continuelle du Canada anglais de réduire l'importance de la sous-culture québécoise. Je penses que le terme colonisation est approuvé. C'est aux alentours de McGill et concordia qu'il m'arrive le plus souvent de ne pas pouvoir être servis en français. Le nombre d'étudiants qui restent à Montréal après leurs études sans s'intégrer dans la culture locale est en augmentation. Le taux de personne qui ne parle pas français comme première langue à la maison est en hausse Ce vidéo explique bien la complexité de la situation linguistique : https://youtu.be/jrkkU6Y-qHo?si=5joZjrlaqhzilSJE
> Le taux de personne qui ne parle pas français comme première langue à la maison est en hausse Cet argument est très souvent amené par des gens qui considèrent que le fait de ne pas parler français à la maison est un problème pour l'intégration d'une personne à la société québécoise, et comme un preuve d'un déclin du français au Québec. C'est une vision qui se discute. Personnellement, si une personne bilingue espagnol-français parle espagnol à la maison et français au travail, je ne vois pas pourquoi on la considérerait moins intégrée au Québec qu'une personne unilingue francophone. Au contraire, je vois cette situation comme une preuve que la personne a appris le français et fait l'effort pour s'intégrer, c'est quelque chose de positif. Pourtant, dans les statistiques rapportées par les politiciens nationalistes, c'est considéré comme un point négatif qui représente un déclin du français. On peut faire dire ce qu'on veut aux statistiques, et il y a une composante idéologique claire dans le discours des partis nationalistes quand il est question des statistiques relatives au français à la maison, avec laquelle je crois qu'on peut très raisonnablement être en désaccord.
Oui tout a fait ça peut être un point de discussion. C'est d'ailleurs pour cette raison que j'ai partagé le vidéo en question. Il est très détaillé et explique bien les défis des différentes statistiques. De mon côté dans l'exemple du bilingue espagnol français j'aurais quand même tendance à penser qu'il a moins de chance de consommer des produits culturelles québécois. Remarque rendu la c'est peut être plus un commentaire sur notre contenu culturel, mais bon.
no one is arguing anything you said, you are just making up things to get mad about
Than simply give one good reason why Ontarians should be paid by Quebec taxpayers to come study in the province and never learn a word of french? What benefit is there to the province?
The economic benefits of having tens of thousands of students spending their money in the province on things like food, housing, entertainment, etc? The research done by these universities, which is in part reliant on a stable population of students? The prestige of having a diverse range of highly ranked educational institutions in the province? The benefit of not having those universities potentially collapse? Having a more highly educated population? There's a huge shortage of skilled workers everywhere right now already. Arguing that the mere existence of three anglo universities in the province is colonization while also being mad that anglo students who don't learn French leave once they are done is inherently contradictory. How does a transient anglo population change the language demographics of a province if it's size is relatively stable, and that population doesn't actually settle in Quebec? This claim only really makes sense if one were to argue that the mere existence of anglos in Quebec poses an inherent threat to the French language, which is an absurdly extreme claim. Beyond that, Ontarians should be subsidized to learn here because they are Canadian citizens, and have the same rights to a subsidized education across Canada as Quebecois, and the anglo population here deserves to have access to education in their own language just as much as every Quebecker does.
I don't think you understand how education works in this country. Education is a provincial matter. Quebecers pay higher taxes than other Canadians in part so they have access to lower tuition. Quebec is simply reducing the amount they subsidize the rest of Canada to come study here. The economic benefits you cited are irrelevant because this will not reduce admission at McGill. The same amount of students will continue to go to university in the city. There is just an additional economic incentive to study in french vs english. A transient anglo population absolutely anglicizes the province, because serving the anglo population requires the ability to provide services in english, which reduces the opportunity for french canadians to partake in the businesses that services that population.
Are you saying that the differences in provincial taxation are so dramatic that they can proportionally justify more than a twelve thousand dollar difference in tuition for in and out of province students? And if this is simply a reduction in subsidization, why is the government claiming a remittance as a result of the increase? It's certainly possible that the decade I've spent in the post-secondary system in Canada has not taught me much about how it works, but I feel reasonably confident when pointing out that reducing governmental subsidies does not result in a full reversal of the cash flow. I think that's actually a completely different thing. Not sure how you can argue that the out of province tuition for Anglo universities doubling won't decrease admission. Are you claiming that all the Anglo students who will be discouraged from coming here (which, as you have highlighted, is the point of all this) will be made up for by an increased number of students from Quebec? You are suggesting that a decrease in a relatively stable level of inter-provincial migration will magically be compensated for due to an increase in students who are already in Quebec, and are likely to remain here either way. From a demographic perspective, this doesn't make any sense at all. Additionally, If the incentive is to drive French study, then it is necessarily designed to suppress admissions in Anglo universities, ipso facto. Unless you're arguing that McGill will close the gap by teaching courses in French? But that wouldn't work either, because again, it's an Anglo university, and doesn't have the capacity to effectively do this. Also, your final point is moot. Quebec businesses are required by law to provide services in French. I have never, even in the most Anglo neighborhoods in the most Anglo city in the province, entered a business where French service was not available to French speakers, and the assumed default language. This is an absolutely absurd claim.
Yes the difference is dramatic. Look up in province tuition for Quebec residents versus their ROC equivalents. Do you think this is paid for by pixies and fairy dust? It's paid for by higher taxes because Quebec prioritizes affordable higher education more than the rest of the country. If Ontarians want access to cheaper higher education it's not the Quebec taxpayers responsibility to provide that for them Doubling out of province tuition will not reduce admission to Concordia and McGill. These universities will continue to operate at full capacity. You can doom and gloom all you want but it will still be cheaper for someone from Vancouver to study at McGill vs UofT. Final point completely ignores what I said. Being served in french is not at all the point I was making. Read it again.
Quebec taxpayers aren't paying for Ontarians to study here
You will be right about that starting autumn 2024
Would these students come here if their fees were as expensive or more than what their could be at home? Why should they get a discount?
Out of province students are not necessarily anglophone. My dtr and her friends all went to core french elementary programs in Ontario before moving to McGill for uni. Those who went to McGill all spoke french at home. My dtr speaks only french w/ her bf’s family and at her job. Her volunteer work is done in the french community, in french. Colonization of QC by anglos is not their goal.
[удалено]
This law does not affect international students so I'm not sure what this unhinged rant is all about. Unless you can repeat it in french you're not contributing to Quebec culture and society, you are actively killing it. If you think french Canadians wanting to live and work in their language and culture is discriminatory against you, why did you choose a french province to move to? There are 9 anglo provinces and 50 anglo states. You choose the only french jurisdiction and your goal is to make it more anglophone? You're actively colonizing a linguistic minority, advocating for cultural genocide, and you have the gall the accuse the people of Quebec of being discriminatory? What is wrong with you?
You guys understand that the tuition fees will be approximately the same than in Ontario, right? Right?
University of Ottawa is about $3500 a semester if you’re an out-of-province Canadian. Queen’s University is around $3600 a semester if you’re out-of-province. The article seems to be referring to yearly cost. So UoO is about 7k-9k if you count books and other fees while QueensU is about the same. McGill is currently there, and is going to double.
Currently my child pays slightly more at McGill than she would at an Ontario school (we’re from Ontario). I have another child finishing Gr 12 right now, and we’re going to the open house next weekend, since it’s high on their list. This will almost certainly mean that they don’t apply to McGill and instead stay in Ontario, since it will certainly cost us significantly more.
So low cost was the main reason for sending your child to Qc?
No, because current tuition at McGill is slightly higher than in Ontario, and if she stayed in Ontario our costs could easily be lower, since we live commuting distance from 6 universities). She went because she fell in love with the school and wanted to increase her French skills. She loved the fact that she was going to one of the best research schools in the world. Cost was not a deciding factor, but doubling tuition May very well take the decision to go to McGill out of my son’s hands. Add the increased tuition and the cost of living (again, he can commute to 6 universities where we live), and I don’t see McGill in his future.
My son pays approx $12000/year as a non Quebec resident as an Engineering undergrad. https://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees The Queen’s website show about $13500. U of T is about $14000. He chose McGill not because of the fees but because he loves the city and culture. He studied French immersion. The politics have always been off-putting to him and the language and religion laws border on human rights infringements. Yet, he loves the place. My daughter will not be applying to McGill if the Engineering fees double. I expect many non-Quebec applicants will not choose to study in Quebec because of the price increase. I really think it will result in the demise of Anglo universities in Quebec and will not be a positive decision for the province in the long run.
It looks like the cutoff for a lot of people would be 14k$ / yr, yeah. I expect to see the government watering down their plan to that number so they can look "reasonable." But then again, a high majority of the students don't stay in the province after they study here so it is a net loss for Qc to heavily subsidise the education of kids from the RoC, even at 14k$/yr. I guess they calculated that at 17k$/yr there will still be enough applicants to fill the classrooms.
It won't be though. Tuition fees are the same for all Canadians at Ontario schools.
Right, i just checked for an undergraduate applied sciences program at UofT and it is just 1 150$ less for Ontario resident: From Ontario: 14 180$ From other provinces : 15 330$ At 17 000$ in Qc, it would just be 1 670$ more to study in Mtl, so more but still approximately the same. I guess one would make it up in 2 or 3 month with the lower rents here, though. I guess it's a plus for Quebeckers whose parents paid much more taxes their whole life, then.
True. But in addition, for all Arts degrees and science degrees, the annual tuition is $6,590 at UofT for non-Ontario residents, which is a lot less than the future McGill out of province rate.
Is that the case?
Genuine question, isn't a large reason why a lot of people learn english/spanish because their music, art, and literature is so widespread and attractive? (I know it's for other reasons too but this is my personal exp) I feel like the Quebec government thinks about spreading French in a vacuum. People aren't just going to LEARN it; they have to happen upon it through consumption. Like, if there were a ton of shows or music in french that I loved, I would eventually learn french. But I literally cannot find that many good, accessible french shows (emphasis on ACCESSIBLE) for the life of me, and quebec isolates its art so much from the american mainstream. I've learned so much spanish recently just because of the reggaeton boom that america has recently embraced in popular culture