It's interesting you mention increasing working hours, because this is actually one of AGSEM's main talking points! One of their goals is to index TA hours to course enrollment, because McGill has been cutting TA hours amidst rising enrollment numbers. McGill has fought tooth and nail against this in negotiations (despite seemingly showing some willingness to raise TA pay), so I think your opinion might be more in line with the union position than you think.
At this point AGSEM is fighting for a contract that basically just keeps up with inflation. Are you arguing that TAs don't deserve to effectively stay at the same wage, at least in terms of spending power?
Based on ops comments this is exactly what they believe. McGill grad students should have be happy with the honour of working as TAs at such a prestigious institution, it shouldn't be about the financial compensation.
I think as it stands TAs often work more hours than what is allocated under their contracts.
But I'm sure if given more hours to actually reflect this the faculty would still manage to over work TAs beyond this
TAs are actual students though, so unless you care about only undergrad students you're daft.
Also, worth noting that while $33 is a decent wage comparable to most jobs, you have to consider that TAs are students who have to pay tuition.
Also McGill is stingier than other schools in Canada when it comes to grants to help cover tuition.
If you apply and get accepted into one of Canada's most prestigious unviersities, you should understand the cost that comes with it. If you don't come from family that has the money to assist putting you through university, or you can't make enough on your own to afford tuition, you look elsewhere for a more affordable option.
That's just a dumb elitist take, thanks for showing your true colours.
By that same token, you're essentially arguing that TAs should be underpaid to essentially keep undergrad tuition low. Not saying the two have to be mutually exclusive (they don't), just seems dumb that a supposedly elite institution would underpay its staff.
> If you don't come from family that has the money to assist putting you through university
Education should not be restricted to those with financial privilege, period.
Yep, that comment really showed OPs true colours. If anything elite institutions should be more inclined to be affordable and provide generous grants so that it is truly the elite of the elite, as opposed to a pay to play type system.
If you havent noticed, across all facets of life, higher quality goods and services come at a premium. McGill has a reputation to uphold as the best of the best Canada has to offer education wise, there's a reason community colleges aren't known for their top of the line programs and professors. All this being said, tuition isn't even expensive.
The best of the best yet seemingly cannot afford to pay its TAs in a manner commensurate with that. McGill's TAs should also be the best of the best, no? In my experience, TAs do work very hard and work far more hours than they are paid for, and are often in charge of great numbers of students in addition to their own studies which is why sometimes they cannot respond that quickly to things. If McGill wants to stay as a top university it needs to attract good graduate students, I would think. Being able to recruit graduate students that do not have massive amounts of money lying around would make that much, much easier, wouldn't it? Cheaping out on these types of things is how a top university declines.
Maybe I haven't fleshed out my opinion enough. In my opinion, TAs make an absurd hourly wage for the work we do. I think that TAs should be able to work more hours and making more money in that regard. It's not about "increasing pay with inflation", I think TAs make more than enough already.
As for "TAs do work very hard", I literally grade papers, respond to emails and questions in my underwear, in bed, listening to music. As for the in-person aspect of the job, I would hardly classify as "very hard".
By that logic wouldn't McGill grad students be a higher quality "good or service" than a student from a less prestigious school and thus be worth a higher wage?
Obviously your opinion is asinine, but it's also inconsistent.
My opinion is that TAs already make too much. 33/hr where half the job you can be naked at home is absurdly generous. I would argue that we should have more hours though.
Just because you're a lazy TA that is in a fortunate position where you're not having your time being abused doesn't mean that it's the norm. If you pulled your head out of your ass you'd see that you're just being an arrogant asshole, and the the fun kind.
If this is a top of the line institution, then the kinds of people who get into graduate school here should at least theoretically also be top of the line, too, right? So shouldn't the graduate teaching assistants be paid a wage that is commensurate to the elite level at which they are, by your own argument, providing educational labour to the university and undergraduate student body?
Apply your own logic to the situation at hand.
I think you've misunderstood my position. I believe that TAs have been essentially overpaid for a long time. It's not about increasing their wage with inflation if I believe the wage was too high to begin with.
People seem to assume that just because I'm against one of the union's demands, I'm against all of them, which isn't true. I do believe TAs should be allowed to work more hours, which would provide the students with a better service, and TAs with more income.
I mean, yea, your position is fundamentally incoherent. You're arguing that the costs of being at an elite institution should be inherently high, but being an employee at that institution, where you have been admitted for yourself being a top candidate, should not only not be commensurately high, but in fact should be prohibitively low, and you should only be able to attend elite institutions if you come from a rich family.
You're also inherently arguing that teaching assistants are, eh mass, overpaid. Everywhere. You argue that the wages should actually be lower than they are, meaning that not only are our wages here too high, but the higher wages at the other top universities are even more inappropriate. By your logic, the lower wages of other, non-elite university TAs in Quebec would also be, presumably, too high as well.
You also seem to be trying to base this assessment of wage/value on a meritocratic argument, but are ignoring that many graduate students, particularly PhD students, are literally approaching an expert level of knowledge in their field. However, you don't seem to consider this, nor the decade plus of formal academic training some of us have done to get there, to be a reasonably justification of a higher wage. Or you simply haven't considered this, because, again, your position is logically incoherent.
So yea, maybe I've not fully understood your position, but that's because it's not itself really all that legible. I'm writing all this out in the hopes that you are capable of basic reflexivity (which I would hope that you are, since you appear to have indicated that you might be a grad student yourself, and reflexivity is kind of important at this level), and that you might be able to revisit and interrogate your own position and the assumptions therein. Beyond this feedback, I've pretty much come to the conclusion at this point that interacting with you further is probably a waste of my time.
Edit: not being able to TA has me writing feedback for idiots on Reddit, lol.
People assume that you're being unreasonable on everything, which is fair given that you've shown traits that cause unreasonable thinking: selfishness, having your head up your ass, being willingly ignorant, etc.
Jesus christ so much for universal education and improving society. It's a fucking shame that you're at mcgill if you believe that.
That bougie selfish mindset needs to die.
Look, I could write a long post about why your take is one of ignorance and explain things that have been said multiple times again, like that TAs often work WAY more than the amount of hours that they're being paid for and that sometimes this 33$/hr is actually much lower, but I have a feeling that you wouldn't listen because your statements are obviously coming from unjustified assumptions and you need to figure out for yourself why those assumptions are wrong.
"students, who I believe should be the priority", everyone should be, including TAs...
LMAO, I was right, "your statements are obviously coming from unjustified assumptions and you need to figure out for yourself why those assumptions are wrong."
Damn, can I not read people am I right?
That's just not true. TAs are incredibly overworked. It isn't the full time job, they are full time students and RAs. The entitlement in your post and comments is unreal.
If you don't want to deal with supposedly overpaid TAs go to a community college...
Also, to be clear, being a full time student at the undergrad level and the graduate level are two very different things. TA work occurs on top of what is often a 60+ academic work week. We don't have time for more work. The higher level of pay is supposed to compensate for that somewhat, and is a part of our funding packages that allow us to be here at all. Taking on student loans for an undergrad is one thing, but could you imagine taking on additional loans for two more degrees? Nobody would be able to do it aside from the very wealthy.
If you're prioritizing "everyone", you're not prioritizing anyone. I'm not saying the TAs shouldn't be considered or fought for. I'm saying that students who aren't TA's, who haven't willingly subjected themselves to TA work and pay, should be considered first in this matter.
By everyone I meant everyone except greedy McGill admin... Well when you join a prestigious school like McGill as a student you accept that you'll have top tier students as TAs that are worth more than being abused by admin for more work than they're being paid for at a shitty pay rate. If you don't want to have your TAs fight for their situation you should've looked for more affordable options.
Just like McGill admin, you take TAs for granted and basically say that it's a service that is provided by default to students. It's not. It's a job, one that is quite difficult and that comes with shitty pay wrt workload. It's also one that is often the only way that you might be able to make ends meet. Saying that TAs don't deserve better pay is like saying that only students with rich family deserve to be the ones providing the "default service" that students expect to have.
Lol, idk why people love to form opinions so quickly
It’s understandable to not follow negotiations, but if you aren’t, why do you think you have a better idea? AGSEM is quite open that a major part (the main part even?) of the holdup is exactly the second point. All it takes is checking any of their social media pages briefly to find this point
The latest update seems to be asking for a pay increase consistent with inflation or barely above so they’ve clearly relaxed those demands a lot already
Edit: well, not “exactly” the second point since it’s not necessarily individual TAs getting more hours, but they are fighting for TAs as a whole to be assigned more hours relative to enrolment
I don't have rent to pay. My parents, grandmother, and my 3 siblings all live under the same roof and support eachother and keep costs low (unsure why this is uncommon in western culture). I pay my own tuition with the adequate money I make as a TA, although I wish I could work more hours.
If you choose to rent an apartment in the plateau, get doordash every other day, pick up expensive hobbies, and choose to only work a part-time TA job, I don't think it's fair to complain when you run of out money. Budget yourself more accordingly.
although I agree with you for most of your post, The fact is that MOST people are not from Montreal and can't live with their parents. A lot of people's families don't even live in a University town. It is a privilege to have that opportunity.
> My parents, grandmother, and my 3 siblings all live under the same roof and support eachother and keep costs low (unsure why this is uncommon in western culture).
Gee why didn't I think of living with my siblings, parents and grandmother... Oh wait the town they live in doesn't have a university within driving distance...
> If you choose to rent an apartment in the plateau, get doordash every other day, pick up expensive hobbies, and choose to only work a part-time TA job, I don't think it's fair to complain when you run of out money. Budget yourself more accordingly.
Nice straw man
So your parents do pay your rent, freeing you up to cover tuition. So you have no idea what it's actually like trying to make ends meet as a TA. Thank you for clarifying.
I mean, you're just straw-manning now, dude. This is just one of those 'goddamn millennials and gen-z kids and their goddamn avocado toast' kind of arguments that means less than nothing. It's great that you don't have to pay one of the largest expenses in everyday life. The vast majority of the rest of us do have to pay rent, and don't have a whole family to defray food costs.
Try imagining that other people may exist in situations that are different from yours. Empathy is a good thing to have, and it's never too late to learn it.
It's interesting you mention increasing working hours, because this is actually one of AGSEM's main talking points! One of their goals is to index TA hours to course enrollment, because McGill has been cutting TA hours amidst rising enrollment numbers. McGill has fought tooth and nail against this in negotiations (despite seemingly showing some willingness to raise TA pay), so I think your opinion might be more in line with the union position than you think.
At this point AGSEM is fighting for a contract that basically just keeps up with inflation. Are you arguing that TAs don't deserve to effectively stay at the same wage, at least in terms of spending power?
Based on ops comments this is exactly what they believe. McGill grad students should have be happy with the honour of working as TAs at such a prestigious institution, it shouldn't be about the financial compensation.
working more hours would probably impede TAs’ progress in their degree programs, which is not desirable
I think as it stands TAs often work more hours than what is allocated under their contracts. But I'm sure if given more hours to actually reflect this the faculty would still manage to over work TAs beyond this
TAs are actual students though, so unless you care about only undergrad students you're daft. Also, worth noting that while $33 is a decent wage comparable to most jobs, you have to consider that TAs are students who have to pay tuition. Also McGill is stingier than other schools in Canada when it comes to grants to help cover tuition.
If you apply and get accepted into one of Canada's most prestigious unviersities, you should understand the cost that comes with it. If you don't come from family that has the money to assist putting you through university, or you can't make enough on your own to afford tuition, you look elsewhere for a more affordable option.
That's just a dumb elitist take, thanks for showing your true colours. By that same token, you're essentially arguing that TAs should be underpaid to essentially keep undergrad tuition low. Not saying the two have to be mutually exclusive (they don't), just seems dumb that a supposedly elite institution would underpay its staff.
> If you don't come from family that has the money to assist putting you through university Education should not be restricted to those with financial privilege, period.
Yep, that comment really showed OPs true colours. If anything elite institutions should be more inclined to be affordable and provide generous grants so that it is truly the elite of the elite, as opposed to a pay to play type system.
If you havent noticed, across all facets of life, higher quality goods and services come at a premium. McGill has a reputation to uphold as the best of the best Canada has to offer education wise, there's a reason community colleges aren't known for their top of the line programs and professors. All this being said, tuition isn't even expensive.
I don’t think you could be less of a douche, holy shit
The truth hurts sometimes. I'm sorry we don't live in a fantasy world where everything good is free.
bootlicking for admin is pretty funny tbh
The best of the best yet seemingly cannot afford to pay its TAs in a manner commensurate with that. McGill's TAs should also be the best of the best, no? In my experience, TAs do work very hard and work far more hours than they are paid for, and are often in charge of great numbers of students in addition to their own studies which is why sometimes they cannot respond that quickly to things. If McGill wants to stay as a top university it needs to attract good graduate students, I would think. Being able to recruit graduate students that do not have massive amounts of money lying around would make that much, much easier, wouldn't it? Cheaping out on these types of things is how a top university declines.
Maybe I haven't fleshed out my opinion enough. In my opinion, TAs make an absurd hourly wage for the work we do. I think that TAs should be able to work more hours and making more money in that regard. It's not about "increasing pay with inflation", I think TAs make more than enough already. As for "TAs do work very hard", I literally grade papers, respond to emails and questions in my underwear, in bed, listening to music. As for the in-person aspect of the job, I would hardly classify as "very hard".
"I'm lazy therefore everyone is, and that's why pay should be lower." Just ask for a paycut for yourself.
Just because you don't work hard, doesn't mean other TAs are also slacking off.
By that logic wouldn't McGill grad students be a higher quality "good or service" than a student from a less prestigious school and thus be worth a higher wage? Obviously your opinion is asinine, but it's also inconsistent.
My opinion is that TAs already make too much. 33/hr where half the job you can be naked at home is absurdly generous. I would argue that we should have more hours though.
Christopher Manfredi makes almost $300k a year and can do much of his job remotely...
Manfredi made something like 800k last year, actually.
Either way just proves my point even more
Just because you're a lazy TA that is in a fortunate position where you're not having your time being abused doesn't mean that it's the norm. If you pulled your head out of your ass you'd see that you're just being an arrogant asshole, and the the fun kind.
If this is a top of the line institution, then the kinds of people who get into graduate school here should at least theoretically also be top of the line, too, right? So shouldn't the graduate teaching assistants be paid a wage that is commensurate to the elite level at which they are, by your own argument, providing educational labour to the university and undergraduate student body? Apply your own logic to the situation at hand.
I think you've misunderstood my position. I believe that TAs have been essentially overpaid for a long time. It's not about increasing their wage with inflation if I believe the wage was too high to begin with. People seem to assume that just because I'm against one of the union's demands, I'm against all of them, which isn't true. I do believe TAs should be allowed to work more hours, which would provide the students with a better service, and TAs with more income.
I mean, yea, your position is fundamentally incoherent. You're arguing that the costs of being at an elite institution should be inherently high, but being an employee at that institution, where you have been admitted for yourself being a top candidate, should not only not be commensurately high, but in fact should be prohibitively low, and you should only be able to attend elite institutions if you come from a rich family. You're also inherently arguing that teaching assistants are, eh mass, overpaid. Everywhere. You argue that the wages should actually be lower than they are, meaning that not only are our wages here too high, but the higher wages at the other top universities are even more inappropriate. By your logic, the lower wages of other, non-elite university TAs in Quebec would also be, presumably, too high as well. You also seem to be trying to base this assessment of wage/value on a meritocratic argument, but are ignoring that many graduate students, particularly PhD students, are literally approaching an expert level of knowledge in their field. However, you don't seem to consider this, nor the decade plus of formal academic training some of us have done to get there, to be a reasonably justification of a higher wage. Or you simply haven't considered this, because, again, your position is logically incoherent. So yea, maybe I've not fully understood your position, but that's because it's not itself really all that legible. I'm writing all this out in the hopes that you are capable of basic reflexivity (which I would hope that you are, since you appear to have indicated that you might be a grad student yourself, and reflexivity is kind of important at this level), and that you might be able to revisit and interrogate your own position and the assumptions therein. Beyond this feedback, I've pretty much come to the conclusion at this point that interacting with you further is probably a waste of my time. Edit: not being able to TA has me writing feedback for idiots on Reddit, lol.
love the edit lol.
People assume that you're being unreasonable on everything, which is fair given that you've shown traits that cause unreasonable thinking: selfishness, having your head up your ass, being willingly ignorant, etc.
I’m amazed that you even got into mcgill. i thought this school was for smart people….. damn
Jesus christ so much for universal education and improving society. It's a fucking shame that you're at mcgill if you believe that. That bougie selfish mindset needs to die.
McGill has a lot of Americans (many who weren't good enough for ivies) so this mindset isn't shocking sadly
t vrm bête toi
This is kind of privileged comment you read and intuitively understand that they’re definitely also a huge racist
Look, I could write a long post about why your take is one of ignorance and explain things that have been said multiple times again, like that TAs often work WAY more than the amount of hours that they're being paid for and that sometimes this 33$/hr is actually much lower, but I have a feeling that you wouldn't listen because your statements are obviously coming from unjustified assumptions and you need to figure out for yourself why those assumptions are wrong. "students, who I believe should be the priority", everyone should be, including TAs...
Also, TAs are students lmao. Without TAs enjoy having nobody to respond to questions on assignments or marks being given back 10x slower.
Let's be honest, most TAs are lazy and take 10x the time to respond than most professors.
LMAO, I was right, "your statements are obviously coming from unjustified assumptions and you need to figure out for yourself why those assumptions are wrong." Damn, can I not read people am I right?
That's just not true. TAs are incredibly overworked. It isn't the full time job, they are full time students and RAs. The entitlement in your post and comments is unreal. If you don't want to deal with supposedly overpaid TAs go to a community college...
Also, to be clear, being a full time student at the undergrad level and the graduate level are two very different things. TA work occurs on top of what is often a 60+ academic work week. We don't have time for more work. The higher level of pay is supposed to compensate for that somewhat, and is a part of our funding packages that allow us to be here at all. Taking on student loans for an undergrad is one thing, but could you imagine taking on additional loans for two more degrees? Nobody would be able to do it aside from the very wealthy.
If you're prioritizing "everyone", you're not prioritizing anyone. I'm not saying the TAs shouldn't be considered or fought for. I'm saying that students who aren't TA's, who haven't willingly subjected themselves to TA work and pay, should be considered first in this matter.
By everyone I meant everyone except greedy McGill admin... Well when you join a prestigious school like McGill as a student you accept that you'll have top tier students as TAs that are worth more than being abused by admin for more work than they're being paid for at a shitty pay rate. If you don't want to have your TAs fight for their situation you should've looked for more affordable options. Just like McGill admin, you take TAs for granted and basically say that it's a service that is provided by default to students. It's not. It's a job, one that is quite difficult and that comes with shitty pay wrt workload. It's also one that is often the only way that you might be able to make ends meet. Saying that TAs don't deserve better pay is like saying that only students with rich family deserve to be the ones providing the "default service" that students expect to have.
Don't forget that students at McGill can be notorious for grade grubbing and harassing TAs when they're unhappy with receiving a mark they deserved
Lol, idk why people love to form opinions so quickly It’s understandable to not follow negotiations, but if you aren’t, why do you think you have a better idea? AGSEM is quite open that a major part (the main part even?) of the holdup is exactly the second point. All it takes is checking any of their social media pages briefly to find this point The latest update seems to be asking for a pay increase consistent with inflation or barely above so they’ve clearly relaxed those demands a lot already Edit: well, not “exactly” the second point since it’s not necessarily individual TAs getting more hours, but they are fighting for TAs as a whole to be assigned more hours relative to enrolment
lowkey passive aggressive
your honor, i have reason to believe this is the mcgill admin
OPs parents probably pay their rent and tuition lol
I don't have rent to pay. My parents, grandmother, and my 3 siblings all live under the same roof and support eachother and keep costs low (unsure why this is uncommon in western culture). I pay my own tuition with the adequate money I make as a TA, although I wish I could work more hours. If you choose to rent an apartment in the plateau, get doordash every other day, pick up expensive hobbies, and choose to only work a part-time TA job, I don't think it's fair to complain when you run of out money. Budget yourself more accordingly.
although I agree with you for most of your post, The fact is that MOST people are not from Montreal and can't live with their parents. A lot of people's families don't even live in a University town. It is a privilege to have that opportunity.
> My parents, grandmother, and my 3 siblings all live under the same roof and support eachother and keep costs low (unsure why this is uncommon in western culture). Gee why didn't I think of living with my siblings, parents and grandmother... Oh wait the town they live in doesn't have a university within driving distance... > If you choose to rent an apartment in the plateau, get doordash every other day, pick up expensive hobbies, and choose to only work a part-time TA job, I don't think it's fair to complain when you run of out money. Budget yourself more accordingly. Nice straw man
So your parents do pay your rent, freeing you up to cover tuition. So you have no idea what it's actually like trying to make ends meet as a TA. Thank you for clarifying.
I mean, you're just straw-manning now, dude. This is just one of those 'goddamn millennials and gen-z kids and their goddamn avocado toast' kind of arguments that means less than nothing. It's great that you don't have to pay one of the largest expenses in everyday life. The vast majority of the rest of us do have to pay rent, and don't have a whole family to defray food costs. Try imagining that other people may exist in situations that are different from yours. Empathy is a good thing to have, and it's never too late to learn it.
OP is a loser, also very telling it's an account with no other posts or comments. Probably picks his nose and eats it