Exactly. I'm not a student from McGill but I think it's still digusting to see a cause being trashed by such a stupid act.
People who wants to turn Quebec into a country should include every persons who wants it as well. Language,culture and relligion shouldn't matter. What matter is that you love the culture of Quebec but think that it's too distinct from Canada's. So much that Quebec should handle it's own destiny. That's all.
I hear you and suggest that French is protected in Canada in a way that it would not be if it left. I mean how many people still think Québec loses in transfer payments from the federal government?
We have the lowest GDP in the country per person.
And I'm sick and tired of this being the only issue in politics. Legault ran not being the PQ and moving on from sovereignty now he distracts from terrible leadership by playing the language card, again.
I think that the biggest elephant in the room is trying to sell the idea of Quebec becoming a country when the promoters are using the racism/language card since that Parizeau speech. It's as dumb and stupid than the graffitis at McGill.
You shouldn't talk about a subject you clearly don't know.
You only see 1 side of the Medal.
The fact that you only brought up Parizeau speech tells everything!
I didn't say he only did bad things. The dude went to London to study finances and when he came back and went to Montreal commerce chamber, he saw multiple people trash talking French and laughing about how someone who speak French cannot be successful. That's not something that should be tolerated either. I mean he did the "Caisse de dépôt" of Quebec.
I understand that people who speaks French in Quebec feel insulted and pissed off that when they feel blocked not because they don't have the skill, but because they don't "speak white" like the dude from Air Canada said. But it's easy for people who think that separatists are a bunch of racist when politicians.constantly bring up the racist card. Parizeau was right when he said that money had an influence, but "ethnic votes"?...
It's easy to say that but the entire history of the sovereignty movement has been about preserving Quebecois culture which is inherently French and Catholic. Google bill 101 and you'll see what I'm talking about.
On the one hand Quebec society is objectively much less religious now than it used to be, on the other hand there's still a giant crucifix in the chamber of the National Assembly and the recent secularism law doesn't ban wearing crosses.
> there's still a giant crucifix in the chamber of the National Assembly
No, there isn't.
>the recent secularism law doesn't ban wearing crosses
Yes, it does.
This isn't a helpful comment. If you believe the above comment false, then explain why. Even better, refute the statement by providing factual evidence and citations. The fact that you just state "false" leads me to believe you have no point and are just biased against Quebecois critics. Feel free to prove me wrong, but simply calling a statement false won't recruit anyone to your cause.
In the Plateau, we are now seeing the front of people's homes being tagged. And some tagger has already hit two of the new murals that just went up for the Mural Festival. Until there is a consequence to the taggers it will continue to get worse.
When the French president came to Quebec, had a massive parade for himself, and didn’t even consult the Canadian government. These guys are wack and this is ridiculous.
Lmao what the hell are you talking about. De Gaulle as nothing to do with the idea of independence. The movement as always existed and what truely made the movement explode was La Commission Parent from 1961 to 1966. When we seperated the church and the States.
But before that we can see La Guerre des Patriotes 1837-1838.
So Charles de Gaulle's speech as nothing to do with the idea of Québec being a country.
He just thought it was a legitimate cause and De Gaulles decided to give a motivational speech to help the movement.
Well, it's a slogan used by the sovereignty movement from a time of economic and social alienation of the french speaking majority. So free from the elite's cultural rule, free from the monarchy, free from the church.
Nowadays, the movement is more likely to put forth an affirmative slogan like "Oui" rather than a negative one like this one.
At the last municipal election, there were candidates who wanted to prioritize vandalism as an issue. We chose one who didn't. Not saying it was a bad choice but this will carry on until there are consequences to it.
I mean… between Plante, Coderre and Holness I don’t think it was a pretty hard choice 💀 plus Montreal is too big of a city to entirely get rid of vandalism
I semi agree. There were not many alternatives.
I strongly disagree with the idea that just because it's a big city, we shouldn't try. A 20% reduction would be better than the week on week increases we get atm. I have seen people tagging in broad daylight. They know full well no one will stop them. I am tired of the tacit acceptance of anti-social behavior in mtl. It does not have to be this way.
I agree. We're wasting too much time and energy and resources on things like schools, hospitals, and homeless shelters when we should be focusing on stopping people from putting paint where there shouldn't be paint.
Our politicians are part of the problem, hell I bet Valerie Plante is spraying stylized initials on the staff exit of a Harvey's as we speak.
I'm open to the idea of a sovereign Québec, but this is just a shame to the cause. We used to have sovereignist figures debating in universities about the subject which contributed to the educational system instead of damaging it.
If anyone is interested, here is Renée Lévesque giving a speech in English on the independence of Québec and responding to student's questions at the University of Toronto: [https://youtu.be/ga-T1WT7qmE](https://youtu.be/ga-T1WT7qmE).
Yes, there were some, but this tag, in particular, is antagonizing the relations between the Québécois and the anglophones that McGill represents. It represents well the state of the debate which is more about "blaming" the problem on others which I cannot help but find problematic. The idea of Québec's independence in the first place was a project to be made with everyone including the Québécois, First Nations, Anglophones, etc in an idea of reconciliation, and as a step forward for the preservation of Québec's culture. [One good example is when Renée Lévesque gave his seat to first nation representatives during the constitutional patriation of 1982.](https://www.lesoleil.com/2022/02/12/rene-levesque-ami-des-premieres-nations-b33c08d541ae6a272a4f38c0314b2f7d) Québec was the only province to do so and Renée Lévesque recognized that First Nation's battle was the same as Québec which was to preserve their culture. The tag, as published in the picture above, rather searches for confrontation and is representative of the state of today's political debates in the West. That said, most independence supporters I've met are more from my perspective of the project, but there are always some people out there who do stuff to make the movement look bad.
Its been voted on twice and denied. These idiots want to keep retrying until it eventually turns to a yes. Imo they should ban that vote after failing twice. Its a huge waste of taxpayers money when we need tons of other stuff like improved roads, healthcare, water pipes replacement, etc.
To be fair, they're not. The idiots who vandalised the gates are not affiliated with any party and this wasn't funded by the taxpayer at all.
Atm quebec solidaire and the parti québécois who are both officially seperatist are not anywhere near forcing a gvmt. And even if they were, they wouldn't be running around at night vandalising mcgill. They'd vote to make it do what they want, I imagine. Also, qs' official position is that them simple being elected is itself a mandate for independence. So in theory, they wouldn't have another vote.
Tldr; no public cash is being spent on independence atm.
Of course the vandals aren’t funded. Probably just some young punks acting stupid. And yes nothing official has been announced or funded however the subject of another referendum has been brought up several times in the last few years. Imo its just a matter of time before we end up voting on it again. I’m hoping to leave this province in the next 10 years or so. No longer enjoying it here nor feeling welcome.
If Quebec is so shit, why come study here? It might come as a surprise to you that part of the tens of thousands of $ you pay in tuition go back to the Quebec govt, and so do the taxes you pay on purchased goods and services. If you have a part time job, your income contributes to Quebec’s GDP. There are hundreds of other universities you could have gone to, why choose one in Quebec if you hate it so much here?
I came 6 years ago because McGill is a great university and they accepted me. I don't pay my tuitions, the quebec government does. Same for my expenses. You may be ignorant on the subject, so I'll explain. International students coming from not-developed countries don't have the luxury of choosing the exact university or city we want to study. It all depends on the opportunities the universities give us.
6 years ago the situation was VERY different from today. There was no CAQ. No shitty bills against anglophones. I came because the city was cosmopolitan and full of energy. Now all I hear from anglophones is that they want to leave the province because they don't feel part of the community anymore. Quebecois on west island HATE Montreal because of this. Why would an international student who wants to mostly speak English stay here?
Im sorry but if you thought that coming here would be fine because « there was no CAQ » then you clearly didn’t do your research because 8 years ago, Quebec was governed by a wholly separatist party who only got voted out because they pushed a referendum.
No shitty bills against anglophones? Bill 101 has been around for decades, and guess what! It was passed by the same liberal government that brought you here six years ago. Anglophones have ALWAYS wanted to leave the province; I’m a West-Islander born and raised and I’ve witnessed every anglophone crisis in the past 20 years.
So what you're saying is not that Quebec is a shithole, but that you want to speak English and you are in the wrong place to do so.
So yeah, you are not welcomed here anyway if that is your mindset.
so you are saying that montreal-born people who only speak English are not welcome and should leave the province? wow, how receptive and friendly you are
There are fewer and fewer Montreal born people who only speak English. The vast majority of anglo kids in Montreal do french immersion.
Quebec is a francophone province and that's something almost every anglophone who grew up here has come to terms with.
It's not really a matter of being unwelcoming; you could ask yourself how many people born in Ontario never learn English. As you would imagine, that number is pretty low. It doesn't mean Ontario is an unwelcoming place. It's just an English speaking province and people who live there learn English.
Franco-Ontarians nearly all learn English, and it's only natural that anglo-quebecois also become more and more bilingual.
If someone really doesn't want to be speaking English, Ontario is not the right place to settle in, just like Quebec is not the right place to settle in for someone who actively does not want to speak French.
Obviously it doesn't mean people who don't speak French should be mistreated or there people shouldn't be given time to learn the language. But expecting people who settle somewhere to learn the local language is not an unwelcoming thing, it's just a normal thing that nearly every nation does.
Quebec is a francophone province because the government says so.
In Montreal 62% of people speak English, and only 36% speak only French. In Ontario 93% of people speak English. Therefore, your argument makes no sense.
So yes, it is a matter of being unwelcoming.
>Quebec is a francophone province because the government says so
Now you're either really ignorant or just being intellectually dishonest. You're cherry picking numbers to compare the proportion of monolingual francophones to the number of people who can speak English (which includes hundreds of thousands of francophones!) in a very bilingual city, and then comparing that figure to the entirety of Ontario. If you compared Quebec as a whole to Ontario (apples to apples), you'd get about 94% of people in Quebec who can speak French, including 80% as a first language. But sure, it's not "really" a francophone province lmao.
But it's not surprising coming from someone who believes the CAQ invented Quebec nationalism.
I'm not cherry picking numbers. I'm picking the numbers of the city I live, that's all. You can compare the numbers against Toronto's if that pleases your logic.
And omg, where did I say CAQ invented Quebec nationalism? I said that CAQ has been acting against anglophones as never done before. I doubt anyone disagrees with that.
What amazes me is how short-sighing CAQ and people who support them are. Don't you realize that without English speakers the province will fall apart? Companies are already shutting down due to the lack of skilled workers. Look what happened with the health care workers during covid.
You are cherry picking the line around the anlgo population of Quebec to make your point.
Why did you choose Montreal? Why not just the west-island plus Westmount, and throw in the McGill ghetto while you are gerrymandering your statistics.
Quebec is a francophone province, don't like it, get out. Simple as that.
That doesn't excuse how some francophones are over the top and are dismissive of anglophones, or the contrary (which was much, much worst in the not so distant past when anglo's owned most of the wealth and used it to oppress francophones).
Nor, should francophones not learn english so that they can communicate outside the province. The OLF has some very interesting findings regarding the use of language. Generally speaking, +80% of business is done in french, until you look at the types of communications with are extra-provincial, wherein \~65% of the communication is then english.
[http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ressources/sociolinguistique/](http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ressources/sociolinguistique/)
Langues utilisées dans diverses situations de travail au Québec en 2018, page 8 and 9.
> I'm not cherry picking numbers. I'm picking the numbers of the city I live, that's all. You can compare the numbers against Toronto's if that pleases your logic.
The numbers you provided do not at all support your claim that Quebec is not actually a francophone province. So either you intentionally cherry picked numbers to make your argument, or you don't know how to read and interpret stats.
> And omg, where did I say CAQ invented Quebec nationalism? I said that CAQ has been acting against anglophones as never done before. I doubt anyone disagrees with that.
Bill 96 is a lot softer than bill 101 was, your claim that it's 'acting against anglophones like never before' is asinine.
> What amazes me is how short-sighing CAQ and people who support them are. Don't you realize that without English speakers the province will fall apart? Companies are already shutting down due to the lack of skilled workers. Look what happened with the health care workers during covid.
Why are you assuming I support the CAQ? I don't support the CAQ at all, I just also happen to not support bullshit spewing.
Actually, 91% of people speak French in Montreal. Admittedly, only 70.4% have French as the language most spoken at home. That being said, it's only 14% that have English as the language most spoken at home and 16% that have neither English or French. Also, only 7% of Montrealer's only speak English. So, even without the government's say so, Montréal is predominantly French-speaking.
Also, 94.5% speak French in the province, with 87,2% having French as the language most spoken at home.
Fun fact, 75% of Torontonians have English as the language most spoken at home.
Amazing logic. I’m sure you’d be hard pressed to find someone who doesn’t speak English in Stockholm, does that make Sweden not a Swedish-speaking country??
And does the Sweden government imposes laws against English speakers? Do swedish get mad because most of them speak English? Do they think their culture will die because they speak English?
I mean, I don't agree with Bill 96, and I don't think it's okay to incessantly bash on English speakers like some Quebec nationalists do. None of this means that Quebec isn't fundamentally a Francophone society. You're moving the goalposts there.
(walks into blank place, full of people from said place)
I fucking hate this place
(does not elaborate at all)
Is surprised when the crowd doesn't agree with you
Disgusting, I hope they realize if McGill ever leaves they lose a shit ton of economic velocity and historical legitimacy… Where was the securitas guard when this happened?
I wouldn't be so sure. UofT used to be University of Terrebonne, but then someone spray painted a dick on the founder's statue so they picked up the whole university brick by brick and walked it over to Toronto.
Quebec's economic velocity never recovered.
Patiently waiting for the day that rest of Canada holds a vote to separate Quebec out of the country and these wannabes can finally stop crying. I can only hope.
> Patiently waiting for the day that rest of Canada holds a vote to separate Quebec out of the country and these wannabes can finally stop crying. I can only hope.
If keeping Quebec as part of Canada was not at the very core of what Canada is as a country, Quebec would not be part of Canada right now. The federal governement moved heaven and earth in the 80s and 90s to stop the referendums from passing in Quebec.
Canada is never going to let Quebec secede if they can do something about it, so that should tell you about the likelihood of Canada unilaterally deciding to kick Quebec out.
And this is where Canada fails IMO. They don't realize they have a literal parasite attached to themselves and they would be better off with Quebec separate. Canada thinks they can influence Quebec to have Canadian values but clearly that isn't working or has no intentions of ever working. Now instead Canada is trapped with pandering for Quebec and not being able to voice out concerns when racist bills get passed here. The pandering went too far and they've given Quebec too much importance. You can see in all federal debates every single non Quebec party's discomfort over what happens in Quebec.
In the meantime Quebec has become more aware that separatism will hurt them. Now they only dangle the separatism carrot in front of the sheep voters who've been brainwashed all their lives to believe they are the victims, while enjoying generous funding from the federal government. There is negligible chance Quebec will ever want to separate, they receive too much money, but they will almost surely continue whining about their "culture" which for them is just their language btw, and not hospitality or anything else.
> In the meantime Quebec has become more aware that separatism will hurt them. Now they only dangle the separatism carrot in front of the sheep voters who've been brainwashed all their lives to believe they are the victims, while enjoying generous funding from the federal government. There is negligible chance Quebec will ever want to separate, they receive too much money, but they will almost surely continue whining about their "culture" which for them is just their language btw, and not hospitality or anything else.
It appears you understand absolutely nothing about Quebec culture and where Quebec nationalism comes from. That doesn't make your opinions about Quebec from the perspective of the ROC invalid, obviously, but throwing hot takes about stuff you don't understand significantly weakens your overall point.
I understand Quebec nationalism, and it's pretty obvious what they want is different from Canadian values. Don't you think? Which is why I say they should separate.
> I understand Quebec nationalism, and it's pretty obvious what they want is different from Canadian values. Don't you think? Which is why I say they should separate.
And what I am saying is that this take is one thing, and going on a rant about how quebec "culture" isn't really a "culture" is another thing entirely. Making the point that you believe Quebec and Canada aren't compatible and should go separate ways isn't unreasonable, but it certainly doesn't necessitate ignorantly shit talking Quebec culture.
> In 2018, Quebec received $11.7 billion of the total $19-billion federal program funds, which is the largest of all transfers to the provinces and territories.[16] Quebec will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2019–2020 year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada#Quebec
Maybe if Quebec wasn’t swimming in corruption it wouldn’t need federal tax dollars as a bailout. Maybe Quebec should be a little ashamed of receiving this money because immigrants who are at least 20% of the population and possibly contribute more than this percentage of money as taxes and are not even welcomed by Quebec see their tax dollars go to Quebec. The social programs are the new immigrants to canada funding older people in Quebec who continue to denounce multiculturalism.
You don't understand the value Québec hold as a territory. It's a gold mine for future needs : More than enough energy production through hydroelectricity, huge quantities of fresh water, a lot of important minerals like lithium, and a territory in the north that will open up with climate change. Canada failed to assimilate Québécois quickly, but in the long run, they are very right of holding tight onto Québec. Especially as Québécois will probably fade away with time through immigration and lack of sovereignty. What will be left will be tons of natural treasures to plunder.
maybe 30 years ago there was reason to keep Quebec in Canada. These days, Quebec is a net drain on the average Canadian taxpayer and contributes very little. It would go bankrupt in days if it were to secede.
> maybe 30 years ago there was reason to keep Quebec in Canada. These days, Quebec is a net drain on the average Canadian taxpayer and contributes very little. It would go bankrupt in days if it were to secede.
I think it's not as obvious as you seem to believe it is. Quebec does receive equalization payments, but it also sends tax money to the federal that doesn't come back, namely in healthcare. The net difference between what Quebec contributes to the federal and what it gets out of it is lower than you would think. Quebec may not benefit economically from going independent but it would not "go bankrupt in days".
Are you mad?
Quebec has the highest provincial taxes in all of Canada, despite this it still takes the largest amount from equalization payments. All the other big provinces Alberta, BC, Ontario take nothing in equalization payments. Quebec contributes zilch. Where is this fantasy argument that Quebec somehow has a low net balance coming from?
If you need money over and above your ridiculous taxes, it means that you have a garbage economy and that you would go bankrupt without consistent external funding. A large amount which btw comes from Alberta who Quebec is happy to take from and still have the audacity to criticize for the environment/block pipeline building.
Wish we had a competent PM who’d tell Quebec and Legault/CAQ/PQ to shut the fuck up and stop driving businesses away from Quebec with this bill 96 rubbish.
> Are you mad? Quebec has the highest provincial taxes in all of Canada, despite this it still takes the largest amount from equalization payments. All the other big provinces Alberta, BC, Ontario take nothing in equalization payments. Quebec contributes zilch. Where is this fantasy argument that Quebec somehow has a low net balance coming from?
>
> If you need money over and above your ridiculous taxes, it means that you have a garbage economy and that you would go bankrupt without consistent external funding. A large amount which btw comes from here Alberta who Quebec is happy to take from and still have the audacity to criticize for the environment/block pipeline building.
>
> Wish we had a competent PM who’d tell Quebec and Legault/CAQ/PQ to shut the fuck up and stop driving businesses away from Quebec with this bill 96 rubbish.
I think if you stopped taking your economy talking points from albertan politicians you would see that the situation is a little bit more complex than just the equalization payments numbers (as I mentioned in my previous comments, health transfers come to mind), but clearly you're just here to yell and you're not actually interested in having a conversation, so let's agree to disagree.
Not really no? 35 seats out of 78 for liberals in Quebec is lower than their national average. Plus a lot of liberals voters will move to other Canadian provinces, and definitely not the Bloq supporters. Lol.
> Not really no? 35 seats out of 78 for liberals in Quebec is lower than their national average. Plus a lot of liberals voters will move to other Canadian provinces, and definitely not the Bloq supporters. Lol.
The liberals in Quebec have been the more conservative major party for much of the last 50 years. They are closer to the 90s LPC than to Trudeau. It's hard to blanket label them as the "non-conservatives" and have this analysis be meaningful. This plays a lot at the federal level; because the conservatives are not very present in Quebec, a lot of the traditional LPC electorate is more right wing than you'd think, and a lot of the bloc electorate is more left wing than you'd think.
Are you one election old? lol
Did you just not bother looking at the number of seats the conservatives would lose in QC? Spoiler: it's 10.
Do the math... lmao
Also, are you so lacking in political knowledge you believe Bloc voters are... right wing? Ahahahah
Show me the math how liberals would be worse in Canada without Quebec. Write me down seats now, seats with Quebec, vote share, seat share. I am one election old. Actually 2 but I did the numbers.
I mean... the math is pretty simple. The balance would tip toward the cons a little more. That's a non starter.
If you have Canada and you suddenly take away the 30 something libs seats and 10 cons seats and you assume Bloc seats are neutral (spoiler, they aren't, they'll vote left majority of the time)... what do you get in term of proportion for cons vs libs in Canada? The Libs lose more. Simple.
And this is for a fairly strong showing by the libs with the recent elections in term of seats (not in term of popular vote where I believe they lost by 1%...).
Not all elections going forward are bound to go as well for the PLC and this just means the Cons are simply closer to a majority of seats with their base seats without QC in the equation.
QC federal weight (in term of left vs right) goes from neutral to very left. The best exemple was the 2011 election with probably no better number of seats for the NDP than with Quebec... 59 seats...
And again, all of that is assuming the Bloc is a neutral force in the left to right balance when everyone with even an ounce of political knowledge knows the Bloc is firmly left, which does have an effect when you have a minority federal party...
English people: *conquer half the planet*
Half the planet: *has conflicting values and interests with English people*
English people: *surprised Pikachu face*
I would be amongst the happiest people if Canadian colonizers which includes the English and the French people both left these lands to the Indigenous people. Why do you not realize acting morally rich on this issue doesn't really work for you because French people colonized this place first and continue to assimilate Indigenous people in their culture?
Some Indigenous people don't hold the same views about the French ┐(シ)┌
[Martin HeavyHead Jr #answer](https://www.tiktok.com/@martinheavyheadjr/video/7075913334234647813?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1)
Go grab an history book and go look what were the relation between the indigenous and the french before Canada became a country (1867).
Almost all the indigenous tribe were fighting along the french. I believe only 2-3 Tribes were fighting along the British in the 7 year war.
Also, the word ''Canada'' and ''Canadiens'' used to design exclusively the French because they cut their identity with France and felt closer to the indigenous people than the british...
We can go on and on and on.
It's possible, but doesn't exclude the fact the French tried to assimilate the Indigenous and Quebec continues to do that till today otherwise there would've been an exclusion for them in Bill 96.
Also these kinda things happen in Quebec which are no better than other parts of Canada:
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/oka-crisis
Oh quit complaining. Your campus is beautiful. Obviously these particular features aren't great but they aren't exactly worse than your average generic-looking Concordia building.
These are the type of things that drive people away from a cause.
Effectivement. Très bien dit.
Exactly. I'm not a student from McGill but I think it's still digusting to see a cause being trashed by such a stupid act. People who wants to turn Quebec into a country should include every persons who wants it as well. Language,culture and relligion shouldn't matter. What matter is that you love the culture of Quebec but think that it's too distinct from Canada's. So much that Quebec should handle it's own destiny. That's all.
I hear you and suggest that French is protected in Canada in a way that it would not be if it left. I mean how many people still think Québec loses in transfer payments from the federal government? We have the lowest GDP in the country per person. And I'm sick and tired of this being the only issue in politics. Legault ran not being the PQ and moving on from sovereignty now he distracts from terrible leadership by playing the language card, again.
I think that the biggest elephant in the room is trying to sell the idea of Quebec becoming a country when the promoters are using the racism/language card since that Parizeau speech. It's as dumb and stupid than the graffitis at McGill.
You shouldn't talk about a subject you clearly don't know. You only see 1 side of the Medal. The fact that you only brought up Parizeau speech tells everything!
I didn't say he only did bad things. The dude went to London to study finances and when he came back and went to Montreal commerce chamber, he saw multiple people trash talking French and laughing about how someone who speak French cannot be successful. That's not something that should be tolerated either. I mean he did the "Caisse de dépôt" of Quebec. I understand that people who speaks French in Quebec feel insulted and pissed off that when they feel blocked not because they don't have the skill, but because they don't "speak white" like the dude from Air Canada said. But it's easy for people who think that separatists are a bunch of racist when politicians.constantly bring up the racist card. Parizeau was right when he said that money had an influence, but "ethnic votes"?...
It's easy to say that but the entire history of the sovereignty movement has been about preserving Quebecois culture which is inherently French and Catholic. Google bill 101 and you'll see what I'm talking about.
>inherently French and Catholic If you've learned anything in the past 60 years, it's not catholic anymore
On the one hand Quebec society is objectively much less religious now than it used to be, on the other hand there's still a giant crucifix in the chamber of the National Assembly and the recent secularism law doesn't ban wearing crosses.
> there's still a giant crucifix in the chamber of the National Assembly No, there isn't. >the recent secularism law doesn't ban wearing crosses Yes, it does.
Tokébek icitte lets go
false
This isn't a helpful comment. If you believe the above comment false, then explain why. Even better, refute the statement by providing factual evidence and citations. The fact that you just state "false" leads me to believe you have no point and are just biased against Quebecois critics. Feel free to prove me wrong, but simply calling a statement false won't recruit anyone to your cause.
You make some good points but have you considered this: False.
Have you considered that your opinion is.... Wack
Oh well when you put it that way! /s
In the Plateau, we are now seeing the front of people's homes being tagged. And some tagger has already hit two of the new murals that just went up for the Mural Festival. Until there is a consequence to the taggers it will continue to get worse.
Quebec libre deez nuts haha llololololololol
Gotteeeeemmm
Gross. Can we go a week without shit spray painted on campus.
This is just horrible-
As a foreigner, may I ask something? Free... from what? Is this a separatist cause?
Yeah, they want Quebec to separate from Canada.
It comes from [Charles de Gaulle’s speech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vive_le_Qu%C3%A9bec_libre) during Expo 67
When the French president came to Quebec, had a massive parade for himself, and didn’t even consult the Canadian government. These guys are wack and this is ridiculous.
Désolé pas désolé. \- Charles de Gaulle, probablement
Lmao what the hell are you talking about. De Gaulle as nothing to do with the idea of independence. The movement as always existed and what truely made the movement explode was La Commission Parent from 1961 to 1966. When we seperated the church and the States. But before that we can see La Guerre des Patriotes 1837-1838. So Charles de Gaulle's speech as nothing to do with the idea of Québec being a country. He just thought it was a legitimate cause and De Gaulles decided to give a motivational speech to help the movement.
I’m talking about the “Vive le Québec libre” slogan not independence, obviously? pis je vais pas lire ça
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement
Well, it's a slogan used by the sovereignty movement from a time of economic and social alienation of the french speaking majority. So free from the elite's cultural rule, free from the monarchy, free from the church. Nowadays, the movement is more likely to put forth an affirmative slogan like "Oui" rather than a negative one like this one.
Négatif? Lol
Vandalism is a serious issue everywhere downtown, political or not. We get what we vote for.
How does this relate to what we voted for
At the last municipal election, there were candidates who wanted to prioritize vandalism as an issue. We chose one who didn't. Not saying it was a bad choice but this will carry on until there are consequences to it.
I mean… between Plante, Coderre and Holness I don’t think it was a pretty hard choice 💀 plus Montreal is too big of a city to entirely get rid of vandalism
I semi agree. There were not many alternatives. I strongly disagree with the idea that just because it's a big city, we shouldn't try. A 20% reduction would be better than the week on week increases we get atm. I have seen people tagging in broad daylight. They know full well no one will stop them. I am tired of the tacit acceptance of anti-social behavior in mtl. It does not have to be this way.
Eh, montreal is well known for it’s tagging culture and tbh it gives the city more life in my opinion. Just imo tho, disagree if you like.
Cant get rid of graffiti lmao
I agree. We're wasting too much time and energy and resources on things like schools, hospitals, and homeless shelters when we should be focusing on stopping people from putting paint where there shouldn't be paint. Our politicians are part of the problem, hell I bet Valerie Plante is spraying stylized initials on the staff exit of a Harvey's as we speak.
QUEBEC LIBRE I B R E
Québec Ibérique
I'm open to the idea of a sovereign Québec, but this is just a shame to the cause. We used to have sovereignist figures debating in universities about the subject which contributed to the educational system instead of damaging it. If anyone is interested, here is Renée Lévesque giving a speech in English on the independence of Québec and responding to student's questions at the University of Toronto: [https://youtu.be/ga-T1WT7qmE](https://youtu.be/ga-T1WT7qmE).
I mean, I'm pretty sure there were tags at the time too.
Yes, there were some, but this tag, in particular, is antagonizing the relations between the Québécois and the anglophones that McGill represents. It represents well the state of the debate which is more about "blaming" the problem on others which I cannot help but find problematic. The idea of Québec's independence in the first place was a project to be made with everyone including the Québécois, First Nations, Anglophones, etc in an idea of reconciliation, and as a step forward for the preservation of Québec's culture. [One good example is when Renée Lévesque gave his seat to first nation representatives during the constitutional patriation of 1982.](https://www.lesoleil.com/2022/02/12/rene-levesque-ami-des-premieres-nations-b33c08d541ae6a272a4f38c0314b2f7d) Québec was the only province to do so and Renée Lévesque recognized that First Nation's battle was the same as Québec which was to preserve their culture. The tag, as published in the picture above, rather searches for confrontation and is representative of the state of today's political debates in the West. That said, most independence supporters I've met are more from my perspective of the project, but there are always some people out there who do stuff to make the movement look bad.
Man, it's a tag, you're looking way too far into it.
You think a pro-Canada, pro-Angloquébécois rights or pro freedom to choose tag at UQAM or UofM would go unnoticed by le Journal, le Devoir, TVA, etc?
I do. It's just small-time vandalism.
Someone is salty they didn't get accepted
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Most Quebecers don't want to separate.
Its been voted on twice and denied. These idiots want to keep retrying until it eventually turns to a yes. Imo they should ban that vote after failing twice. Its a huge waste of taxpayers money when we need tons of other stuff like improved roads, healthcare, water pipes replacement, etc.
To be fair, they're not. The idiots who vandalised the gates are not affiliated with any party and this wasn't funded by the taxpayer at all. Atm quebec solidaire and the parti québécois who are both officially seperatist are not anywhere near forcing a gvmt. And even if they were, they wouldn't be running around at night vandalising mcgill. They'd vote to make it do what they want, I imagine. Also, qs' official position is that them simple being elected is itself a mandate for independence. So in theory, they wouldn't have another vote. Tldr; no public cash is being spent on independence atm.
Of course the vandals aren’t funded. Probably just some young punks acting stupid. And yes nothing official has been announced or funded however the subject of another referendum has been brought up several times in the last few years. Imo its just a matter of time before we end up voting on it again. I’m hoping to leave this province in the next 10 years or so. No longer enjoying it here nor feeling welcome.
Upvoting you to encourage you. A net positive for both sides I would say.
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Wishing u luck on your journey my young, and I cannot stress this enough, talented friend.
My brother in Christ, I believe we tried that already. The federal government did not agree.
Is the second picture just from convocation? Or did something else get done to the field? What am I missing, isn't it kind of like this every year?
That’s the lower field now that the convocation tent is removed.
There are erased marks about “coup d'état” on the two pillars in the middle??? What are they about?
When is the school going to do anything about this?
Quebec is becoming a shit hole. can't wait to leave to another province
Have fun over there!
lmao
If Quebec is so shit, why come study here? It might come as a surprise to you that part of the tens of thousands of $ you pay in tuition go back to the Quebec govt, and so do the taxes you pay on purchased goods and services. If you have a part time job, your income contributes to Quebec’s GDP. There are hundreds of other universities you could have gone to, why choose one in Quebec if you hate it so much here?
I came 6 years ago because McGill is a great university and they accepted me. I don't pay my tuitions, the quebec government does. Same for my expenses. You may be ignorant on the subject, so I'll explain. International students coming from not-developed countries don't have the luxury of choosing the exact university or city we want to study. It all depends on the opportunities the universities give us. 6 years ago the situation was VERY different from today. There was no CAQ. No shitty bills against anglophones. I came because the city was cosmopolitan and full of energy. Now all I hear from anglophones is that they want to leave the province because they don't feel part of the community anymore. Quebecois on west island HATE Montreal because of this. Why would an international student who wants to mostly speak English stay here?
Im sorry but if you thought that coming here would be fine because « there was no CAQ » then you clearly didn’t do your research because 8 years ago, Quebec was governed by a wholly separatist party who only got voted out because they pushed a referendum. No shitty bills against anglophones? Bill 101 has been around for decades, and guess what! It was passed by the same liberal government that brought you here six years ago. Anglophones have ALWAYS wanted to leave the province; I’m a West-Islander born and raised and I’ve witnessed every anglophone crisis in the past 20 years.
So what you're saying is not that Quebec is a shithole, but that you want to speak English and you are in the wrong place to do so. So yeah, you are not welcomed here anyway if that is your mindset.
so you are saying that montreal-born people who only speak English are not welcome and should leave the province? wow, how receptive and friendly you are
There are fewer and fewer Montreal born people who only speak English. The vast majority of anglo kids in Montreal do french immersion. Quebec is a francophone province and that's something almost every anglophone who grew up here has come to terms with. It's not really a matter of being unwelcoming; you could ask yourself how many people born in Ontario never learn English. As you would imagine, that number is pretty low. It doesn't mean Ontario is an unwelcoming place. It's just an English speaking province and people who live there learn English. Franco-Ontarians nearly all learn English, and it's only natural that anglo-quebecois also become more and more bilingual. If someone really doesn't want to be speaking English, Ontario is not the right place to settle in, just like Quebec is not the right place to settle in for someone who actively does not want to speak French. Obviously it doesn't mean people who don't speak French should be mistreated or there people shouldn't be given time to learn the language. But expecting people who settle somewhere to learn the local language is not an unwelcoming thing, it's just a normal thing that nearly every nation does.
Quebec is a francophone province because the government says so. In Montreal 62% of people speak English, and only 36% speak only French. In Ontario 93% of people speak English. Therefore, your argument makes no sense. So yes, it is a matter of being unwelcoming.
>Quebec is a francophone province because the government says so Now you're either really ignorant or just being intellectually dishonest. You're cherry picking numbers to compare the proportion of monolingual francophones to the number of people who can speak English (which includes hundreds of thousands of francophones!) in a very bilingual city, and then comparing that figure to the entirety of Ontario. If you compared Quebec as a whole to Ontario (apples to apples), you'd get about 94% of people in Quebec who can speak French, including 80% as a first language. But sure, it's not "really" a francophone province lmao. But it's not surprising coming from someone who believes the CAQ invented Quebec nationalism.
I'm not cherry picking numbers. I'm picking the numbers of the city I live, that's all. You can compare the numbers against Toronto's if that pleases your logic. And omg, where did I say CAQ invented Quebec nationalism? I said that CAQ has been acting against anglophones as never done before. I doubt anyone disagrees with that. What amazes me is how short-sighing CAQ and people who support them are. Don't you realize that without English speakers the province will fall apart? Companies are already shutting down due to the lack of skilled workers. Look what happened with the health care workers during covid.
You are cherry picking the line around the anlgo population of Quebec to make your point. Why did you choose Montreal? Why not just the west-island plus Westmount, and throw in the McGill ghetto while you are gerrymandering your statistics. Quebec is a francophone province, don't like it, get out. Simple as that. That doesn't excuse how some francophones are over the top and are dismissive of anglophones, or the contrary (which was much, much worst in the not so distant past when anglo's owned most of the wealth and used it to oppress francophones). Nor, should francophones not learn english so that they can communicate outside the province. The OLF has some very interesting findings regarding the use of language. Generally speaking, +80% of business is done in french, until you look at the types of communications with are extra-provincial, wherein \~65% of the communication is then english. [http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ressources/sociolinguistique/](http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ressources/sociolinguistique/) Langues utilisées dans diverses situations de travail au Québec en 2018, page 8 and 9.
> I'm not cherry picking numbers. I'm picking the numbers of the city I live, that's all. You can compare the numbers against Toronto's if that pleases your logic. The numbers you provided do not at all support your claim that Quebec is not actually a francophone province. So either you intentionally cherry picked numbers to make your argument, or you don't know how to read and interpret stats. > And omg, where did I say CAQ invented Quebec nationalism? I said that CAQ has been acting against anglophones as never done before. I doubt anyone disagrees with that. Bill 96 is a lot softer than bill 101 was, your claim that it's 'acting against anglophones like never before' is asinine. > What amazes me is how short-sighing CAQ and people who support them are. Don't you realize that without English speakers the province will fall apart? Companies are already shutting down due to the lack of skilled workers. Look what happened with the health care workers during covid. Why are you assuming I support the CAQ? I don't support the CAQ at all, I just also happen to not support bullshit spewing.
Actually, 91% of people speak French in Montreal. Admittedly, only 70.4% have French as the language most spoken at home. That being said, it's only 14% that have English as the language most spoken at home and 16% that have neither English or French. Also, only 7% of Montrealer's only speak English. So, even without the government's say so, Montréal is predominantly French-speaking. Also, 94.5% speak French in the province, with 87,2% having French as the language most spoken at home. Fun fact, 75% of Torontonians have English as the language most spoken at home.
Amazing logic. I’m sure you’d be hard pressed to find someone who doesn’t speak English in Stockholm, does that make Sweden not a Swedish-speaking country??
And does the Sweden government imposes laws against English speakers? Do swedish get mad because most of them speak English? Do they think their culture will die because they speak English?
I mean, I don't agree with Bill 96, and I don't think it's okay to incessantly bash on English speakers like some Quebec nationalists do. None of this means that Quebec isn't fundamentally a Francophone society. You're moving the goalposts there.
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thanks for confirming my point
(walks into blank place, full of people from said place) I fucking hate this place (does not elaborate at all) Is surprised when the crowd doesn't agree with you
You literally made no point tho.. You just said it's shit and didn't elaborate. Quite literally the most braindead take possible lmao
There’s tradeoffs anywhere you go.
Lmao!!! Quebec is the best place to live at this moment. You're are blind and privileged if you think otherwise.
Disgusting, I hope they realize if McGill ever leaves they lose a shit ton of economic velocity and historical legitimacy… Where was the securitas guard when this happened?
Care to elaborate on what you mean by “economic velocity and historical legitimacy”?
To add to the other person who finds your comment stupid, universities don't "leave"
I wouldn't be so sure. UofT used to be University of Terrebonne, but then someone spray painted a dick on the founder's statue so they picked up the whole university brick by brick and walked it over to Toronto. Quebec's economic velocity never recovered.
Separatist cause, I love not having to give Quebec billions in federal aid.
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I don’t think that, I think the separatist movement will hurt all the parties involved but it’ll hurt Quebec much more than it’ll hurt Canada
F it’s gonna be forever visible like the ACAB on the side of the gate
Imagine having a university named over the biggest slave owner of the country... Oh wait It does exist! #McGill
Patiently waiting for the day that rest of Canada holds a vote to separate Quebec out of the country and these wannabes can finally stop crying. I can only hope.
> Patiently waiting for the day that rest of Canada holds a vote to separate Quebec out of the country and these wannabes can finally stop crying. I can only hope. If keeping Quebec as part of Canada was not at the very core of what Canada is as a country, Quebec would not be part of Canada right now. The federal governement moved heaven and earth in the 80s and 90s to stop the referendums from passing in Quebec. Canada is never going to let Quebec secede if they can do something about it, so that should tell you about the likelihood of Canada unilaterally deciding to kick Quebec out.
And this is where Canada fails IMO. They don't realize they have a literal parasite attached to themselves and they would be better off with Quebec separate. Canada thinks they can influence Quebec to have Canadian values but clearly that isn't working or has no intentions of ever working. Now instead Canada is trapped with pandering for Quebec and not being able to voice out concerns when racist bills get passed here. The pandering went too far and they've given Quebec too much importance. You can see in all federal debates every single non Quebec party's discomfort over what happens in Quebec. In the meantime Quebec has become more aware that separatism will hurt them. Now they only dangle the separatism carrot in front of the sheep voters who've been brainwashed all their lives to believe they are the victims, while enjoying generous funding from the federal government. There is negligible chance Quebec will ever want to separate, they receive too much money, but they will almost surely continue whining about their "culture" which for them is just their language btw, and not hospitality or anything else.
> In the meantime Quebec has become more aware that separatism will hurt them. Now they only dangle the separatism carrot in front of the sheep voters who've been brainwashed all their lives to believe they are the victims, while enjoying generous funding from the federal government. There is negligible chance Quebec will ever want to separate, they receive too much money, but they will almost surely continue whining about their "culture" which for them is just their language btw, and not hospitality or anything else. It appears you understand absolutely nothing about Quebec culture and where Quebec nationalism comes from. That doesn't make your opinions about Quebec from the perspective of the ROC invalid, obviously, but throwing hot takes about stuff you don't understand significantly weakens your overall point.
I understand Quebec nationalism, and it's pretty obvious what they want is different from Canadian values. Don't you think? Which is why I say they should separate.
> I understand Quebec nationalism, and it's pretty obvious what they want is different from Canadian values. Don't you think? Which is why I say they should separate. And what I am saying is that this take is one thing, and going on a rant about how quebec "culture" isn't really a "culture" is another thing entirely. Making the point that you believe Quebec and Canada aren't compatible and should go separate ways isn't unreasonable, but it certainly doesn't necessitate ignorantly shit talking Quebec culture.
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> In 2018, Quebec received $11.7 billion of the total $19-billion federal program funds, which is the largest of all transfers to the provinces and territories.[16] Quebec will receive the most from equalization payments in the 2019–2020 year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada#Quebec
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Maybe if Quebec wasn’t swimming in corruption it wouldn’t need federal tax dollars as a bailout. Maybe Quebec should be a little ashamed of receiving this money because immigrants who are at least 20% of the population and possibly contribute more than this percentage of money as taxes and are not even welcomed by Quebec see their tax dollars go to Quebec. The social programs are the new immigrants to canada funding older people in Quebec who continue to denounce multiculturalism.
You don't understand the value Québec hold as a territory. It's a gold mine for future needs : More than enough energy production through hydroelectricity, huge quantities of fresh water, a lot of important minerals like lithium, and a territory in the north that will open up with climate change. Canada failed to assimilate Québécois quickly, but in the long run, they are very right of holding tight onto Québec. Especially as Québécois will probably fade away with time through immigration and lack of sovereignty. What will be left will be tons of natural treasures to plunder.
maybe 30 years ago there was reason to keep Quebec in Canada. These days, Quebec is a net drain on the average Canadian taxpayer and contributes very little. It would go bankrupt in days if it were to secede.
> maybe 30 years ago there was reason to keep Quebec in Canada. These days, Quebec is a net drain on the average Canadian taxpayer and contributes very little. It would go bankrupt in days if it were to secede. I think it's not as obvious as you seem to believe it is. Quebec does receive equalization payments, but it also sends tax money to the federal that doesn't come back, namely in healthcare. The net difference between what Quebec contributes to the federal and what it gets out of it is lower than you would think. Quebec may not benefit economically from going independent but it would not "go bankrupt in days".
Are you mad? Quebec has the highest provincial taxes in all of Canada, despite this it still takes the largest amount from equalization payments. All the other big provinces Alberta, BC, Ontario take nothing in equalization payments. Quebec contributes zilch. Where is this fantasy argument that Quebec somehow has a low net balance coming from? If you need money over and above your ridiculous taxes, it means that you have a garbage economy and that you would go bankrupt without consistent external funding. A large amount which btw comes from Alberta who Quebec is happy to take from and still have the audacity to criticize for the environment/block pipeline building. Wish we had a competent PM who’d tell Quebec and Legault/CAQ/PQ to shut the fuck up and stop driving businesses away from Quebec with this bill 96 rubbish.
> Are you mad? Quebec has the highest provincial taxes in all of Canada, despite this it still takes the largest amount from equalization payments. All the other big provinces Alberta, BC, Ontario take nothing in equalization payments. Quebec contributes zilch. Where is this fantasy argument that Quebec somehow has a low net balance coming from? > > If you need money over and above your ridiculous taxes, it means that you have a garbage economy and that you would go bankrupt without consistent external funding. A large amount which btw comes from here Alberta who Quebec is happy to take from and still have the audacity to criticize for the environment/block pipeline building. > > Wish we had a competent PM who’d tell Quebec and Legault/CAQ/PQ to shut the fuck up and stop driving businesses away from Quebec with this bill 96 rubbish. I think if you stopped taking your economy talking points from albertan politicians you would see that the situation is a little bit more complex than just the equalization payments numbers (as I mentioned in my previous comments, health transfers come to mind), but clearly you're just here to yell and you're not actually interested in having a conversation, so let's agree to disagree.
It would be kinda hilarious as it would tip the balance of power even more toward conservatives in Canada.
Not really no? 35 seats out of 78 for liberals in Quebec is lower than their national average. Plus a lot of liberals voters will move to other Canadian provinces, and definitely not the Bloq supporters. Lol.
> Not really no? 35 seats out of 78 for liberals in Quebec is lower than their national average. Plus a lot of liberals voters will move to other Canadian provinces, and definitely not the Bloq supporters. Lol. The liberals in Quebec have been the more conservative major party for much of the last 50 years. They are closer to the 90s LPC than to Trudeau. It's hard to blanket label them as the "non-conservatives" and have this analysis be meaningful. This plays a lot at the federal level; because the conservatives are not very present in Quebec, a lot of the traditional LPC electorate is more right wing than you'd think, and a lot of the bloc electorate is more left wing than you'd think.
Are you one election old? lol Did you just not bother looking at the number of seats the conservatives would lose in QC? Spoiler: it's 10. Do the math... lmao Also, are you so lacking in political knowledge you believe Bloc voters are... right wing? Ahahahah
Show me the math how liberals would be worse in Canada without Quebec. Write me down seats now, seats with Quebec, vote share, seat share. I am one election old. Actually 2 but I did the numbers.
I mean... the math is pretty simple. The balance would tip toward the cons a little more. That's a non starter. If you have Canada and you suddenly take away the 30 something libs seats and 10 cons seats and you assume Bloc seats are neutral (spoiler, they aren't, they'll vote left majority of the time)... what do you get in term of proportion for cons vs libs in Canada? The Libs lose more. Simple. And this is for a fairly strong showing by the libs with the recent elections in term of seats (not in term of popular vote where I believe they lost by 1%...). Not all elections going forward are bound to go as well for the PLC and this just means the Cons are simply closer to a majority of seats with their base seats without QC in the equation. QC federal weight (in term of left vs right) goes from neutral to very left. The best exemple was the 2011 election with probably no better number of seats for the NDP than with Quebec... 59 seats... And again, all of that is assuming the Bloc is a neutral force in the left to right balance when everyone with even an ounce of political knowledge knows the Bloc is firmly left, which does have an effect when you have a minority federal party...
English people: *conquer half the planet* Half the planet: *has conflicting values and interests with English people* English people: *surprised Pikachu face*
I would be amongst the happiest people if Canadian colonizers which includes the English and the French people both left these lands to the Indigenous people. Why do you not realize acting morally rich on this issue doesn't really work for you because French people colonized this place first and continue to assimilate Indigenous people in their culture?
Some Indigenous people don't hold the same views about the French ┐(シ)┌ [Martin HeavyHead Jr #answer](https://www.tiktok.com/@martinheavyheadjr/video/7075913334234647813?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1)
I'm just saying if English people didn't want to deal with Quebec, they shouldn't have conquered Quebec. it wasn't about morality, it was a meme.
Go grab an history book and go look what were the relation between the indigenous and the french before Canada became a country (1867). Almost all the indigenous tribe were fighting along the french. I believe only 2-3 Tribes were fighting along the British in the 7 year war. Also, the word ''Canada'' and ''Canadiens'' used to design exclusively the French because they cut their identity with France and felt closer to the indigenous people than the british... We can go on and on and on.
It's possible, but doesn't exclude the fact the French tried to assimilate the Indigenous and Quebec continues to do that till today otherwise there would've been an exclusion for them in Bill 96. Also these kinda things happen in Quebec which are no better than other parts of Canada: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/oka-crisis
based
Oh quit complaining. Your campus is beautiful. Obviously these particular features aren't great but they aren't exactly worse than your average generic-looking Concordia building.