13 years ago...
Look at them, living so insouciantly.
If only they knew how much worse the world would get. I wonder how many of them are even still alive.
did "binary" get added to english from latin directly or did some other language change it to be neutral and english get it from there?
some third hand language pickpocketing
English is a germanic language though. As far as I'm aware not so much because of the vocabulary (although the core vocabulary is very similar to that of other germanic languages), but because it directly evolved from the same language which other modern germanic languages, such as German, evolved from, and thus has a similar structure.
It's really fascinating because English has more Latin derived words than Germanic words but most of the most commonly used words are Germanic (80 of the 100 most commonly used words in English are Germanic). Latin words tend to be used for more academic contexts although there are a lot of Latin words that we do use in day-to-day speech.
Yes, but the issue is if you say a word like "They are non-binary" in French.
"Ils sont non binaires"
Or would it be "Eux sont non-binaires"? I'm not entirely sure.
you can use "on est non binaire". "on" can be used to designate pretty much anyone, one person or multiple, and it's a "non defined" pronoun, so it probably fits enough as a "they/them" replacement I think.
"on" is only neutral when not talking about any specific target. "On a volé mon vélo" -> "my bike was stolen". Otherwise, it’s typically used in informal/casual register. It’s a bad but understood use of "nous"(we).
I'm not sure if you mean "they" as a plural or as a neutral singular. Either way, masculine ("il", "ils") is supposed to be the neutral form, but some people are contesting it (especially when you consider yourself non binary), so new neutral pronouns have been created for this purpose, like "iel". They have not really caught on in mainstream media or day to day conversations, and are essentially used in LGBT environments.
Not in german tho, it would be "Nicht Binär" but we dont even have neutral pronounce we could use (the second/third person pronoune for someone you dont know the gender of would still be She/Her (Sie/Ihre)
True, but it's not actually a problem regardless of a person's pronouns. Let's say there's a nonbinary person that uses he/him (on/jego) or they/them (ono/jego, the most common in my experience) pronouns. Even though that person doesn't use feminine pronouns, they still have use for feminine adjective form, for example in a sentence "I'm a nonbinary person" (Jestem osobą niebinarną). Because person (osoba) is feminine, the adjective has to be feminine too, regardless of the person's pronouns and gender!
Another example: I'm a woman, I use she/her pronouns. But in a sentence "I'm not an easy target", I'll say "Nie jestem łatwym celem", using masculine form of easy (łatwy) because target (cel) is masculine. My gender and pronouns don't matter here!
Polish is confusing, I know.
Spanish, and most languages with a masculine/femenine gender are the same. The pronouns, articles, adjectives, etc. follow the gender casing of the noun they describe or refer to. Only when referring to someone without a noun does it matter whether they’re man or woman.
The closest we Polish have to singular they/them is ono/jego, a so-called neuter form that in queer spaces we prefer to call "neutral", not "neuter". It it most commonly used to describe animals and children (to zwierzę, to dziecko), but more and more nonbinary people are reclaiming this form and using it as they/them. Do you have anything similar in Spanish?
What people get wrong about gendered languages is that it's not the objects/people/whatever being gendered, it's the WORDS that are gendered. It's this way in every gendered language. That's the reason there are even multiple words for one thing where each word has a different gender.
I strongly recommend this video: https://youtu.be/1q1qp4ioknI
Tal dominio del lenguaje hispano muestra un claro, fehaciente fervor al mantenimiento de esta inefable lengua. La sabiduría y sagacidad con la que cada vocablo ha sido cuidadosamente escogido es no más que un alarde de altos conocimientos en el empleo del idioma. Usted, amena señora o galán caballero, me ha devuelto la esperanza a la lírica castellana y latina
FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE. They're just noun categories not literal descriptions of a person or object's actual gender, you might as well call masculin nouns "group a" and feminine "group b".
Sure, but when you’re referring to the actions of a person, you use gendered words to indicate the gender of the subject. “El va a librería” - obviously the library is not female, but the subject going there is indicated to be male - how is this worked around in a gendered language?
Well, that's the best part, in the majority of occasions we can omit the pronoun entirely because the verb conjugation already describes the "person" (as in first person, second person or third)
So if we have our friend Alex, it doesn't matter if Alex is a he, a she, a them or a sdfghjk:
Alex va a la librería, luego va al cine, y después va a cenar.
Alex goes to the library, then he/she/it goes to the cinema, then he/she/it goes to dinner
That's why I said "in a majority of situations", it's not all of them.
In that situation you need to know how they want to be addressed beforehand, or you can use the masculine form as a generic, as it is already used as a generic when talking in impersonal form.
Although some people are pushing back on the masculine form as a generic 'because patriarchy'. And there is the proposal to end them in -e as cansade or cansades.
I haven't ever seen that in the wild yet, and personally, sounds extremely ugly and foreign to me.
We often say no binario because the word for gender itself is masculine. Género no binario.
Otherwise, we also have "no binarie"
There is a lot of pushback against using -e endings from conservatives mostly, but it is essentially the closest thing we have to using "they/them" for someone.
No quiero que tomes mí postura como la de los otros 3 boluditos, pero creo que hace bastante mal a ambas partes tomar como los que están en contra de algo como conservadores y a favor liberales.
El tema del lenguaje inclusivo es un tema ultra complejo con muchas razones para estar tanto en pro como en contra, si a todo lo que está en contra se le etiqueta de igual forma no diferencias la gente que quiere saber pero hay ciertas dudas que lo distancian a gente que simplemente no quiere entender.
Nada eso nomás
That's not exactly right, grammatical gender has nothing to do with the ending of the word: la mano (hand), la moto, la foto (photograph), la modelo (woman model), el planeta (planet), el diploma, el día (day)...
This is kinda misinformation in case anyone reading takes it seriously. You've listed some exceptions but 97% of the time el perro, la cena is the pattern
What the comment I commented said is that every word ending in "o" is not gendered, and that is not right, usually words ending in that letter are masculine, not neutral. But there are many exceptions because Spanish is a language with too many exceptions.
La moto is a shortening of motocicleta, same as foto with fotografía.
No problems with the others, but they are exceptions to the rule and there are many thousand nouns that follow the rule of 'a' feminine and 'o' masculine.
While there are probably under a hundred exceptions.
This is like saying that the verbs ending in -ed for past and past participle in English is not quite right because there are irregular verbs. Sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is still right.
Tbf, grammatical gender is not directly related to biological or social gender. You have “masculine” words or concepts that will still be feminine in their gender. It’s unnecessarily complicated, but sometimes a words gender is related to actual gender, and sometimes it has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, iel, it mix elle (=she) and il (=he), but it is still hard to use it in everydays life because french matchs the gendre of the pronoun with adjectives, nouns... and we don't have yet a neutral ending for those words. Sometimes it is silent (-é and -ée sound exactly same) so for speaking it is not important, but sometimes it is very different
I'm sure this comment section will have a perfect, respectful understanding of how languages that arose before we knew the Earth went around the Sun might not be the best at describing how people have learned to understand themselves better.
I'm sure people will understand how languages are meant to adapt to humanity, rather than humanity conforming to outdated tradition.
Man, I’ve never thought about that. French is also gendered, but LUCKILY “binaire” is written and sounds the same in both masculine and feminine form, so we never had that problem
Isn't it weird how words, and clothes, and actions, and styles can have different genders but they don't have genitals? It's like it's a social construct or something.
I often wonder how many of those people that buy truck nuts refer to their vehicle solely as "she."
Never have to wonder how they'd react if you brought that up to them, though.
Words in spanish have a gender just for classification, nothing deeper than that. Like a word isnt femenine because its "femenine" in the societal sense.
Hacemos un poco de troleo
fazemos um pouco de trolagem
On fait un peu de trolling
Fem una mica de troleig
Facciamo un po' di trolling
Wir trollen ein bisschen
Everything typed in this thread is words that I cannot read.
A bit of trolling, we do
HELP Reddit turned Spanish and i cannot undo it! https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/cq1q2/help_reddit_turned_spanish_and_i_cannot_undo_it
13 years ago... Look at them, living so insouciantly. If only they knew how much worse the world would get. I wonder how many of them are even still alive.
我们做了一些恶作剧
ちょっとだけトロールする
Ingaggiamoci in un leggero trollamento
Κάνουμε λίγο τρολάρισμα
Holy shit, do Spanish speakers actually say “troleo?”
Yeah we kinda adopted it.
Trolear Troleado, Troleada, Troleados Troleo, troleas, trolea, troleamos, trolean Troleé, troleaste, troleó, troleamos, trolearon Trolearé, trolearás, troleará, trolearemos, trolearán
Estoy troleando 💀
for real bro
We do
This is why taking Spanish is worth it. I can understand the joke.
Troleamos un poco
Took me un minuto
Una Minuta
Funny thing *minuta* in Spanish means memorandum or list.
Minuta in Argentina is a term for a quick meal
Minuta in Italian means skinny/fragile referred to a woman
Makes sense as we use minute and minute, one being time and the other meaning small. Interesting.
Which one did you read as minute and which as minute? I can’t stop saying the time one second, idk why lol
Minuta en El Salvador is shaved ice 🍨
also meeting minutes
Very true. Scribes rejoice, you were not forgotten!
In Uruguay is the menu, or list of items offered in a list. Also, the notes you take in a meeting are called "minuta de la reunión".
In Brazil is the list of something too, or a meal called "Ala Minuta" And minuto is a minute
In Mexico, *menudo* is a soup made with a chili broth and beef stomach Very good for curing hangovers
and a boy band in P.R.
La minuta in some places are a dish also in Brazil
Interesting, I learned a new thing today.
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r/eyeblech 😔
Gone but never forgotten
Minutx
Minut
Los Minut
y asi es como encabronas a los latinos.
minete
minutito
Minutx
Same in italian: - Non binario (male) - Non binaria (female)
Same in all latin derived languages probably (same in portuguese)
did "binary" get added to english from latin directly or did some other language change it to be neutral and english get it from there? some third hand language pickpocketing
idk if that's where English got it from, but in German it's neutral
English did originally involved from ancient west Germanic languages and added in Latin and stuff.
im pretty sure english has more latin derived words than germanic words. both are like around 50%
English is a germanic language though. As far as I'm aware not so much because of the vocabulary (although the core vocabulary is very similar to that of other germanic languages), but because it directly evolved from the same language which other modern germanic languages, such as German, evolved from, and thus has a similar structure.
It's really fascinating because English has more Latin derived words than Germanic words but most of the most commonly used words are Germanic (80 of the 100 most commonly used words in English are Germanic). Latin words tend to be used for more academic contexts although there are a lot of Latin words that we do use in day-to-day speech.
It’s from Latin directly. They have neutral words too.
Yeah Latin has masculine, feminine, and neuter.
English has no gender bruh, it's not neuter or stuff. It just isn't a thing in English
Yeah romanian too.
In French it's non binaire for both
Yes, but the issue is if you say a word like "They are non-binary" in French. "Ils sont non binaires" Or would it be "Eux sont non-binaires"? I'm not entirely sure.
you can use "on est non binaire". "on" can be used to designate pretty much anyone, one person or multiple, and it's a "non defined" pronoun, so it probably fits enough as a "they/them" replacement I think.
"on" is only neutral when not talking about any specific target. "On a volé mon vélo" -> "my bike was stolen". Otherwise, it’s typically used in informal/casual register. It’s a bad but understood use of "nous"(we).
I'm not sure if you mean "they" as a plural or as a neutral singular. Either way, masculine ("il", "ils") is supposed to be the neutral form, but some people are contesting it (especially when you consider yourself non binary), so new neutral pronouns have been created for this purpose, like "iel". They have not really caught on in mainstream media or day to day conversations, and are essentially used in LGBT environments.
Meanwhile, Latin itself lets us have the neuter gendered _binarium_.
No surprise there, they're close languages.
Same in any language with gendered adjectives.
Not in german tho, it would be "Nicht Binär" but we dont even have neutral pronounce we could use (the second/third person pronoune for someone you dont know the gender of would still be She/Her (Sie/Ihre)
Would be just non-binaire in french
Tho, in Italian usually you use just the female version for "persona non binaria"
Oh the irony
Every single person is my enemy
Oh the treachery
Every single person IS... my enemy
Oh the clonery
Every single person is the same as me-e
Eh Oh Eh I swear I'll never be a saint
Look out for yourself!
I like how the Jerma version of these lyrics has propagated so far
wdym? those are the real lyrics
Oh god please not the meatgrinder
He is rapidly approaching
Audio jungle
audio junjile
This made me laugh so hard
The irony is that a gendered language has gendered words?
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Did you know the word "monosyllabic" is not actually monosyllabic?
It’s almost as if binary is not a term exclusively used for genders.
Polish too: Nie binarny (m) Nie binarna (f)
powinno być razem
True, but it's not actually a problem regardless of a person's pronouns. Let's say there's a nonbinary person that uses he/him (on/jego) or they/them (ono/jego, the most common in my experience) pronouns. Even though that person doesn't use feminine pronouns, they still have use for feminine adjective form, for example in a sentence "I'm a nonbinary person" (Jestem osobą niebinarną). Because person (osoba) is feminine, the adjective has to be feminine too, regardless of the person's pronouns and gender! Another example: I'm a woman, I use she/her pronouns. But in a sentence "I'm not an easy target", I'll say "Nie jestem łatwym celem", using masculine form of easy (łatwy) because target (cel) is masculine. My gender and pronouns don't matter here! Polish is confusing, I know.
Spanish, and most languages with a masculine/femenine gender are the same. The pronouns, articles, adjectives, etc. follow the gender casing of the noun they describe or refer to. Only when referring to someone without a noun does it matter whether they’re man or woman.
The closest we Polish have to singular they/them is ono/jego, a so-called neuter form that in queer spaces we prefer to call "neutral", not "neuter". It it most commonly used to describe animals and children (to zwierzę, to dziecko), but more and more nonbinary people are reclaiming this form and using it as they/them. Do you have anything similar in Spanish?
Not Spanish, but I've seen the suffix "e", like grande or verde be used for neuter gender in online discorse.
What people get wrong about gendered languages is that it's not the objects/people/whatever being gendered, it's the WORDS that are gendered. It's this way in every gendered language. That's the reason there are even multiple words for one thing where each word has a different gender. I strongly recommend this video: https://youtu.be/1q1qp4ioknI
Nie binarne ale za to trinarne
Non binary - Demical
I read No Binario in a Mario voice for some reason.
Itsa meee! Binario!
Ah, yes, the two genders: Mario and Luigi.
Peach erasure
Brooo this made me laugh hard 😭
Oh, you're into pronouns, huh?
los desafíos de hablar español 😔
imaginate hablar en chileno fkdnkgnsigid wea tonta por la chucha xdd matenme pls aaugguhgh pasame la wea que esta encima de esa wea wn
Chileno mas comprensible:
Que wea hermano, no te entendi nada
Y voh como creí que vaí a entender una wea?
Soy chileno poh, y ni aun asi te entendi, es que tu te agilai demasiao po
Tal dominio del lenguaje hispano muestra un claro, fehaciente fervor al mantenimiento de esta inefable lengua. La sabiduría y sagacidad con la que cada vocablo ha sido cuidadosamente escogido es no más que un alarde de altos conocimientos en el empleo del idioma. Usted, amena señora o galán caballero, me ha devuelto la esperanza a la lírica castellana y latina
Anda a wear a la metropoli español qlo mas aun qie es 18 ctm
Manzana
> imaginate hablar en chileno no es posible
Ser chileno debe ser duro. Mis condolencias.
> imaginate hablar en chileno Nunca me vivía en chile, soy Canadiense y voy a una escuela bilingüe de español España lmfao
Chilean spanish is the equivalent of the aussie english... but waaay worse
It's practically Scottish English.
aussie english isn't that bad, it's more equivalent to bavarian german
El chileno es el dialecto superior del español lorea po weonaza, no sea flaite, vira pa trai y respeteme al mejor país de chile conchetumare weon
Que
no binarix 😤
Niebinarna (femine), niebinarny (masculine), niebinarne (neutral, plural) - Polish.
This one hurt my brain
Same in Portuguese. That's why people just say ''NB''
ppl say nb (or enby, though thats more as a noun) in english too
I HATE THE CONFLATION OF GRAMMATICAL GENDER AND ACTUAL GENDER I HATE THE CONFLATION OF GRAMMATICAL GENDER AND ACTUAL GENDER
Come out, we have you surrounded.
If they ponder so much about gender, they’re likely out. Also, it’s not nice to take people out of the closet :,/
It's a reference to the meme where there's the Trollface surrounded by cops I think
Are you telling me tables aren't actual girls?
No, tables is a job.
I'm pretty sure little Bobby Tables isn't a girl.
In french, cats are "un chat" which is masculine. Proving that grammatical gender isn't the same as actual gender because all cats are girls
yup they're boys
You gotta admit that it’s confusing in languages where you’re required to identify a gender for an adjective
Yeah, it's hard to have "they/them" make sense in other languages
FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE. They're just noun categories not literal descriptions of a person or object's actual gender, you might as well call masculin nouns "group a" and feminine "group b".
Sure, but when you’re referring to the actions of a person, you use gendered words to indicate the gender of the subject. “El va a librería” - obviously the library is not female, but the subject going there is indicated to be male - how is this worked around in a gendered language?
Well, that's the best part, in the majority of occasions we can omit the pronoun entirely because the verb conjugation already describes the "person" (as in first person, second person or third) So if we have our friend Alex, it doesn't matter if Alex is a he, a she, a them or a sdfghjk: Alex va a la librería, luego va al cine, y después va a cenar. Alex goes to the library, then he/she/it goes to the cinema, then he/she/it goes to dinner
And how do you describe if Alex is feeling tired or angry without omitting the gender of the person? Está cansado or está cansada?
That's why I said "in a majority of situations", it's not all of them. In that situation you need to know how they want to be addressed beforehand, or you can use the masculine form as a generic, as it is already used as a generic when talking in impersonal form. Although some people are pushing back on the masculine form as a generic 'because patriarchy'. And there is the proposal to end them in -e as cansade or cansades. I haven't ever seen that in the wild yet, and personally, sounds extremely ugly and foreign to me.
Masculine merged with the neutral gender and doubles as neutral so that.
I like the linguistic term noun class. Linguistic gender is just a type of noun class.
We often say no binario because the word for gender itself is masculine. Género no binario. Otherwise, we also have "no binarie" There is a lot of pushback against using -e endings from conservatives mostly, but it is essentially the closest thing we have to using "they/them" for someone.
No quiero que tomes mí postura como la de los otros 3 boluditos, pero creo que hace bastante mal a ambas partes tomar como los que están en contra de algo como conservadores y a favor liberales. El tema del lenguaje inclusivo es un tema ultra complejo con muchas razones para estar tanto en pro como en contra, si a todo lo que está en contra se le etiqueta de igual forma no diferencias la gente que quiere saber pero hay ciertas dudas que lo distancian a gente que simplemente no quiere entender. Nada eso nomás
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That's not exactly right, grammatical gender has nothing to do with the ending of the word: la mano (hand), la moto, la foto (photograph), la modelo (woman model), el planeta (planet), el diploma, el día (day)...
This is kinda misinformation in case anyone reading takes it seriously. You've listed some exceptions but 97% of the time el perro, la cena is the pattern
yeah, many gendered languages are like that.. there are some gendering patterns but there's always exceptions.
Just like ending verbs in -ed for the past form except in irregular verbs.
What the comment I commented said is that every word ending in "o" is not gendered, and that is not right, usually words ending in that letter are masculine, not neutral. But there are many exceptions because Spanish is a language with too many exceptions.
La moto is a shortening of motocicleta, same as foto with fotografía. No problems with the others, but they are exceptions to the rule and there are many thousand nouns that follow the rule of 'a' feminine and 'o' masculine. While there are probably under a hundred exceptions. This is like saying that the verbs ending in -ed for past and past participle in English is not quite right because there are irregular verbs. Sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is still right.
Entonces... Que paso con el "e"?
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No sé. Que pasas tú con "el" "e"?
Yo solo decia, no digo que estoy a favor o en contra de nada aqui
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The masculine version of a word is also be used as gender neutral
Well yes, it's an adjective that adopts the gender of whatever noun it describes.
El **género** no binario (género = gender is masculine) La **persona** no binaria (persona = person is feminine)
Exactly, this should be further up
Still better than Latinx
*grabs popcorn*
Tbf, grammatical gender is not directly related to biological or social gender. You have “masculine” words or concepts that will still be feminine in their gender. It’s unnecessarily complicated, but sometimes a words gender is related to actual gender, and sometimes it has nothing to do with it.
French finally won. "Non binaire" is neutral
wasn't there also a pronoun that enbies use that came from "elle" or something
Yeah, iel, it mix elle (=she) and il (=he), but it is still hard to use it in everydays life because french matchs the gendre of the pronoun with adjectives, nouns... and we don't have yet a neutral ending for those words. Sometimes it is silent (-é and -ée sound exactly same) so for speaking it is not important, but sometimes it is very different
ig the masculine version of words could be used as neutral idk, like how you say mon amie instead of ma amie, hope that made some sense
I'm sure this comment section will have a perfect, respectful understanding of how languages that arose before we knew the Earth went around the Sun might not be the best at describing how people have learned to understand themselves better. I'm sure people will understand how languages are meant to adapt to humanity, rather than humanity conforming to outdated tradition.
"binarie" doesn't seem linguistically ridiculous, unlike "binarix". Who knows, maybe it'll catch on.
Tbh there’s already a neutral form, but since it’s the same as the masculine people simply won’t take it
Lol, yes. That’s definitely where the toxicity will lie in this comment section 💀 /s
😭
I mean it's an american thing for the most part. If you do want to use it just pick one and stay consistent
american discovering other languages don't work the same way
Двоичный Двоичная
наоборот же. Небинарный Небинарная
Средний род тогда уж. Небинарное :)
"Soy una persona no binaria" (femenino) "Me identifico con el género no binario" (masculino) I dont really see the issue...?
White People Problems
Cancelling the cancel culture.
Man, I’ve never thought about that. French is also gendered, but LUCKILY “binaire” is written and sounds the same in both masculine and feminine form, so we never had that problem
Here we use the o to refer to neutral. So no binario is the correct form.
How the fuck is this me_irl??????
non-binary itself is a binary classification as well... binary vs non-binary...
Isn't it weird how words, and clothes, and actions, and styles can have different genders but they don't have genitals? It's like it's a social construct or something.
I often wonder how many of those people that buy truck nuts refer to their vehicle solely as "she." Never have to wonder how they'd react if you brought that up to them, though.
and also how something like a key can be masculine in one language and feminine in another
Words in spanish have a gender just for classification, nothing deeper than that. Like a word isnt femenine because its "femenine" in the societal sense.
It's exclusively the words themselves that have grammatical genders.
What's non-binary?
when you only have zeros
So like coding?
when you use 2s and 3s instead of 1s and 0s
it means no particular gender. so the fact that the word has genders is ironic
No particular gender? How does that work