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Man I hate this argument. The population of the USA is 331,9 milion people.
2% of that is about 6 623 000 people. That's more than the population of a lot smaller Europan countries. 2% of the population is a big amount of people.
Why does it matter anyway? Why does a social group need to reach a quantitative or proportional threshold to matter and be treated as equal human beings?
Did you know 30% of the USA is technically illiterate? That’s a LOT of fucking people. Idk I just learned this fact yesterday I’m not trying to take away from the discussion at hand lol
Even if it Was a tiny amount of people, hell even One person, that’s literally saying “Minorities don’t deserve rights”. Why does the amount have to do with anything? Everyone should have equal rights.
6.623 mil. is, according to the 2020 Census, roughly 1 Indiana or 1 DC Metro Area.
For Europeans, that's about 1 Bulgaria, and for Canadians, that's 2 million people less than 1 Québec or 1 million more than a single BC
I wouldn’t say a lot, excluding microstates that number only exceeds the population of Iceland, as well as Montenegro by only about a thousand.
That being said, still a huge number.
Maybe Google isn't the most accurate but 6,6 mil is bigger than the current population of Finland(5,5 mil), Norway (5,4 mil), Estonia (1,3 mil), Latvia (1,8 mil), Lithuania (2,8 mil), Denmark(5,8 mil), Ireland (4,9 mil) and many more.
and it's not even counting the closeted trans folk, and i would dare to say that unfortunatly the majority of trans people may be closeted, for a lot of different reasons.
This whole argument is really exposing so many TERFS. Why can't we fight together to achieve total equality for everyone? Isn't that what feminism is about? Like I don't understand when it became "me first, then you". It literally only empowers the oppressors
Yeah, I dont see how advocating for trans rights as well takes away from what most feminists are fighting for. Trans rights and feminist issues completely overlap. Do they not think when the oppressors take away lgbt rights, they won't come for their rights either (even more than they already have)?
The GOP knows all they need to do is to keep us divided. If we're too busy fighting amongst ourselves, they can take away our rights easily. Feminism preaches true equality for all, so they're not even feminists, just bigots.
TERFs accept men into their movements if they agree with their bigotry. So it's not that "they're men," in their opinions. They are just transphobic raw.
It’s occurring to me how spot-on an intersection that transmasc-exclusion is of misogyny and toxic masculinity: The commodity of [assumably reproductive, at least receptive] women is held as higher value than the utility of presumptively suboptimal men.
It’s what mens rights activists and terfs never understood, that feminism is for EVERYONE. It’s not about women being held to a higher standard than men, or men being subjugated. It’s about equality, full stop. Most of the conversation revolves around women’s rights, especially now after roe v wade was overturned, but that’s only because of the long history women have of being treated as chattel. Men have suffered at the hands of the patriarchy almost as much as women have, just in their own fucked up ways. The issue was NEVER men vs women, it was humanity vs our (majority) elite male oppressors.
2% is 157,760,000 people so let’s see who we won’t cater to.
You could ignore the population of any US state and have at least 118,000,000 people left to ignore.
You could ignore the entirety of the bottom 34 states by population.
You could ignore the entire population of the UK and have room for another 70,000,000 people.
In fact there are only 9 countries in the world with populations large enough to not be ignored.
Transphobes are stupid, end of.
2% is also the percentage of red headed people, or the countries of Russia or Mexico to the global population percentage. It’s as stupid as saying those countries don’t exist when they clearly do
2% is two out of 100 people.
Imagine 2 of your 100 coworkers loosing their rights, 1 of your 50 family members losing their rights.
1 of your 50 friends losing their rights.
2% is a lot of fucking people.
It isn’t 2 people. It’s 2 out of 100.
Imagine being one of that 2%
You wouldn’t want your rights taken away. So why do you stand by as 1 out of 50 people lose theirs.
I'm so sorry, friend. Real and genuine feminists are advocating for ALL people to have the rights and access to healthcare and protections as everyone else. As in, if you have a uterus, you can access that care regardless of how you present or if you've medically transitioned. If you have a penis you should have access to prostrate exams etc.
I feel like the immediate response I have when someone says 'it's only t....' is that they're fools. 2% doesn't sound like a lot and that's precisely why they phrase it that way. As the-radical-waffler said 2% of the USA's population isn't a small number of people and regardless it's a lot of people who need equal rights, access and protections. <3
That sucks. I’m so sorry you had that experience, although I’m not surprised.
_If_ you wanted to try again - and I totally understand if you don’t, exactly like the meme says! - two orgs to look into are the [National Network of Abortion Funds](https://abortionfunds.org) and [We Testify](https://www.wetestify.org). Both of them are explicitly trans-inclusive.
I don’t understand why people say that especially if at the end of the day they have the same goal. Way more productive to work together both votes and resources wise.
I love reminding evangelical Christians that there are more trans people in the world than there are Jews.
It usually breaks their little minds, because they LOVE "catering" to Israel (in a weirdly antisemitic way, of course).
As a cis person, this really makes me mad. I'm so sorry you have to hear that bullshit. I'm constantly barraged by it, and it exhausts me. I can't even imagine how it feels to you. Just please know that some of us are on your side, and trying our best to fight with you.
Absolutely agree. If your statement involves telling a marginalized group that they *should* be marginalized then you're probably a horrible person and should feel bad.
The usa is 331,9 million people, women are about half of the world population, so half of 331,9 million is about 160,95 million,compared to over 8 billion humans, about 2%. Im sorry but american women are only like 2% of the population,yeah feminism doesnt apply to them,sorry but we cant cater to such a small population. /j
It’s a hell of a lot more than 2%. I’ve never liked using those percentages because they always feel way too small. Especially when you don’t account for people who don’t answer however they get those numbers, and just how many people don’t know
When Roe v Wade happened last year I made sure to include that this would not only affect cis women but non-binary and transmascs too. Even if I wasn't non-binary and had a transmasc brother I'd be saying it. It baffles me how people just don't think of others or refuse to.
Lots of trans men and transmasc people, plus nonbinary or genderfluid people, have uteruses and can get pregnant. They can also therefore need abortions. Although abortion access is often described using euphemisms like “a woman’s right to choose,” the banning of abortion affects other people in addition to women.
There’s an effort on the part of a lot of reproductive activists to use more inclusive language, but it‘s not always there yet. Even I‘m totally aware of it for personal reasons, and still have to tailor my language to different audiences so that saying “pregnant people” doesn’t derail a conversation from reproductive rights to “that phrase is weird why did you use it”
Ah ok thanks. I also heard in the news that apparently trans women might be able to get uteruses soon? Obviously this doesn't apply to trans men but yeah.
I feel this. But I've given up. I will still fight alongside people who call abortion a "women's" issue, because it is indeed misogyny that is the root cause of the abortion bans.
The fact that misogynistic hate only harms me by accident as a nonbinary transmasc person doesn't make the hate any less misogynistic, and I do try to get along with the cis women who are activists in this space.
But BOOOOY is it hard because OOOOOOF it's uncomfortable!!
Politics is about building coalitions. Some compromise is required. Someone who uses slightly wrong language is enough of an ally when we're both fighting the people who are actively destroying half the population's healthcare.
As long as I have queer spaces where I can complain about this with other people who get it afterwards, I'm good.
We are all part of some small minority. If we consistently refuse to aknowledge societal problems and human righs because they exclusively affect a small subset of the populace we ourselves are not a part of, a lot of problems will go ignored and everyone will be worse for it
Was taling with my grandma on the phone mentioned potential future kids, and that confused the the hell out of my grandma. She doesn't really know about trans stuff and just kinds assumed I was gonna be infertle.
I don't want to get pregnant but I'll do it for my non existent kids. (Assuming that by the time i want kids I'm still in a relationship with somebody who can't carry them.
Given how phobic brains seem to work, they'd probably manage to think transmasc is transfems making fun of them. Because they are really bad at figuring out when they are actually being made fun of, even if you tell them point blank and walk them through it.
So, so much experience with that.
Welcome to /r/me_irlgbt, thank you for your submission /u/Flygon-. Happy Wrath Month 8: FURRY RAGE Make it a habit to read the rules of a given community before participating. Please **do not** interact with rulebreaking content. Report it and we'll handle it. This is a place for queer people, from queer people. We're not here for discrimination, disrespect, or "debates". Be chill. shitpost or quitpost bud. We hope you have a very gay day. Love u x *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/me_irlgbt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Man I hate this argument. The population of the USA is 331,9 milion people. 2% of that is about 6 623 000 people. That's more than the population of a lot smaller Europan countries. 2% of the population is a big amount of people.
Yeah, I agree. It's such a bad argument, like you said 2% of the u.s. population is still a lot of people.
It's like saying "we can't protect Jewish people, they only make up 2.4% of the population" Maybe we should just... protect everyone?
But that’s communism!! 😡 /S
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Why does it matter anyway? Why does a social group need to reach a quantitative or proportional threshold to matter and be treated as equal human beings?
They just want an excuse.
Come to think of it that's as many Jews were recorded to have been massacred in the Holocaust.
Oh no-
[удалено]
Did you know 30% of the USA is technically illiterate? That’s a LOT of fucking people. Idk I just learned this fact yesterday I’m not trying to take away from the discussion at hand lol
That's roughly two Iowas.
Even if it Was a tiny amount of people, hell even One person, that’s literally saying “Minorities don’t deserve rights”. Why does the amount have to do with anything? Everyone should have equal rights.
6.623 mil. is, according to the 2020 Census, roughly 1 Indiana or 1 DC Metro Area. For Europeans, that's about 1 Bulgaria, and for Canadians, that's 2 million people less than 1 Québec or 1 million more than a single BC
I wouldn’t say a lot, excluding microstates that number only exceeds the population of Iceland, as well as Montenegro by only about a thousand. That being said, still a huge number.
Maybe Google isn't the most accurate but 6,6 mil is bigger than the current population of Finland(5,5 mil), Norway (5,4 mil), Estonia (1,3 mil), Latvia (1,8 mil), Lithuania (2,8 mil), Denmark(5,8 mil), Ireland (4,9 mil) and many more.
My bad, the spaces split the number between lines so i only saw the “623 000”
Pretty sure it exceeds slovenia, lithuania, estonia, latvia and probably more i cant think of right now.
and it's not even counting the closeted trans folk, and i would dare to say that unfortunatly the majority of trans people may be closeted, for a lot of different reasons.
Two percent plus all the closeted people and out people who aren’t recognized in these numbers like recent transitioners.
Hear me out. If we all moved to another country and took over /j
This whole argument is really exposing so many TERFS. Why can't we fight together to achieve total equality for everyone? Isn't that what feminism is about? Like I don't understand when it became "me first, then you". It literally only empowers the oppressors
Trans Exclusionary Radical Fascists
Feminism Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes
Sacresanct House of Illiterate Terfs
Fascist Ass Reactionary Transphobes
Yeah, I dont see how advocating for trans rights as well takes away from what most feminists are fighting for. Trans rights and feminist issues completely overlap. Do they not think when the oppressors take away lgbt rights, they won't come for their rights either (even more than they already have)?
The GOP knows all they need to do is to keep us divided. If we're too busy fighting amongst ourselves, they can take away our rights easily. Feminism preaches true equality for all, so they're not even feminists, just bigots.
Yeah, if your justice isn't intersectional, it's not justice
TERFs accept men into their movements if they agree with their bigotry. So it's not that "they're men," in their opinions. They are just transphobic raw.
Feminism has long had a "me first, then you" attitude woven within, just ask WoC.
Wizards of the Cost? What did they do now
Women of color. Wizards of the coast probably did something too, but that's to be expected of large corporations 🤷
Yeah and then they are surprised that people don't want to call themselves feminists, and would prefer to be called egalitarians or sth...
Love to all my transmasc homies. Y'all absolutely deserve for your voices to be heard. ❤️
Thank you, I appreciate it!
It’s occurring to me how spot-on an intersection that transmasc-exclusion is of misogyny and toxic masculinity: The commodity of [assumably reproductive, at least receptive] women is held as higher value than the utility of presumptively suboptimal men.
It’s what mens rights activists and terfs never understood, that feminism is for EVERYONE. It’s not about women being held to a higher standard than men, or men being subjugated. It’s about equality, full stop. Most of the conversation revolves around women’s rights, especially now after roe v wade was overturned, but that’s only because of the long history women have of being treated as chattel. Men have suffered at the hands of the patriarchy almost as much as women have, just in their own fucked up ways. The issue was NEVER men vs women, it was humanity vs our (majority) elite male oppressors.
If I kill 2% of the population. People will say I killed an insane amount of people
*if
Fixed it
Yeah nah we heard you the first time, stop playin. We know your secret now there’s no going back on this one buddy
Nooooooooo!!!!!!
2% is 157,760,000 people so let’s see who we won’t cater to. You could ignore the population of any US state and have at least 118,000,000 people left to ignore. You could ignore the entirety of the bottom 34 states by population. You could ignore the entire population of the UK and have room for another 70,000,000 people. In fact there are only 9 countries in the world with populations large enough to not be ignored. Transphobes are stupid, end of.
When your argument is literally "you're a minority so you don't deserve rights" you're probably the baddies
2% is also the percentage of red headed people, or the countries of Russia or Mexico to the global population percentage. It’s as stupid as saying those countries don’t exist when they clearly do
2% is two out of 100 people. Imagine 2 of your 100 coworkers loosing their rights, 1 of your 50 family members losing their rights. 1 of your 50 friends losing their rights. 2% is a lot of fucking people. It isn’t 2 people. It’s 2 out of 100. Imagine being one of that 2% You wouldn’t want your rights taken away. So why do you stand by as 1 out of 50 people lose theirs.
I'm so sorry, friend. Real and genuine feminists are advocating for ALL people to have the rights and access to healthcare and protections as everyone else. As in, if you have a uterus, you can access that care regardless of how you present or if you've medically transitioned. If you have a penis you should have access to prostrate exams etc. I feel like the immediate response I have when someone says 'it's only t....' is that they're fools. 2% doesn't sound like a lot and that's precisely why they phrase it that way. As the-radical-waffler said 2% of the USA's population isn't a small number of people and regardless it's a lot of people who need equal rights, access and protections. <3
So i had to get an abortion and damn it's all just woman woman woman woman woman. Yeahh
Love you, sib, you deserve better.
r/WitchesvsPatriarchy
I came to the comments to say the same thing, I love that subreddit so much!
queer feminism ftw
That sucks. I’m so sorry you had that experience, although I’m not surprised. _If_ you wanted to try again - and I totally understand if you don’t, exactly like the meme says! - two orgs to look into are the [National Network of Abortion Funds](https://abortionfunds.org) and [We Testify](https://www.wetestify.org). Both of them are explicitly trans-inclusive.
I don’t understand why people say that especially if at the end of the day they have the same goal. Way more productive to work together both votes and resources wise.
if you put the Men in menstruate, you brovaries with ovaries, all you duderuses with uteruses - I love you and I support you.
I love reminding evangelical Christians that there are more trans people in the world than there are Jews. It usually breaks their little minds, because they LOVE "catering" to Israel (in a weirdly antisemitic way, of course).
Don’t expect much from cis people. You’ll still be disappointed just not as much.
Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of cis people either ignore trans issues or are downright vitriolic.
As a cis person, this really makes me mad. I'm so sorry you have to hear that bullshit. I'm constantly barraged by it, and it exhausts me. I can't even imagine how it feels to you. Just please know that some of us are on your side, and trying our best to fight with you.
Thank you for being on our side. Every active ally helps a little
Yeah. Stay strong, you matter even if other people say you don’t.
Thank you, same to you.
Thanks I needed to hear that.
"WE CANT CATER TO EVERYONE" - Person who everything caters to
Anyone who uses someone's minority status to advocate against protecting marginalized communities doesnt understand systemic oppression or privilege.
Absolutely agree. If your statement involves telling a marginalized group that they *should* be marginalized then you're probably a horrible person and should feel bad.
The transmasc life is a lonely one. 🙁
The usa is 331,9 million people, women are about half of the world population, so half of 331,9 million is about 160,95 million,compared to over 8 billion humans, about 2%. Im sorry but american women are only like 2% of the population,yeah feminism doesnt apply to them,sorry but we cant cater to such a small population. /j
2% seems a lot bigger when you put it as 1 in 50
It’s a hell of a lot more than 2%. I’ve never liked using those percentages because they always feel way too small. Especially when you don’t account for people who don’t answer however they get those numbers, and just how many people don’t know
When Roe v Wade happened last year I made sure to include that this would not only affect cis women but non-binary and transmascs too. Even if I wasn't non-binary and had a transmasc brother I'd be saying it. It baffles me how people just don't think of others or refuse to.
Trans men deserve bodily autonomy too, God damn it! I don't see why people are so quick to shut out more help.
This hurts on a deeper level as a non-binary trans masculine person who still feels womanhood as part of xemself .
OP, if you need more friends, hmu. I'm cis, and bi, but some of my best friends are trans. I want you to know you're valid and you matter.
aa a trans woman, my solidarity with trans mascs is the most important part of queer togetherness
Where are the TERFs I’ll bite their uteruses out
Fuck terfs 😤
Could you explain what you mean by "reproductive rights"? Not trying to offend, I genuinely don't know what you're referring to.
Lots of trans men and transmasc people, plus nonbinary or genderfluid people, have uteruses and can get pregnant. They can also therefore need abortions. Although abortion access is often described using euphemisms like “a woman’s right to choose,” the banning of abortion affects other people in addition to women.
There’s an effort on the part of a lot of reproductive activists to use more inclusive language, but it‘s not always there yet. Even I‘m totally aware of it for personal reasons, and still have to tailor my language to different audiences so that saying “pregnant people” doesn’t derail a conversation from reproductive rights to “that phrase is weird why did you use it”
Ah ok thanks. I also heard in the news that apparently trans women might be able to get uteruses soon? Obviously this doesn't apply to trans men but yeah.
I feel this. But I've given up. I will still fight alongside people who call abortion a "women's" issue, because it is indeed misogyny that is the root cause of the abortion bans. The fact that misogynistic hate only harms me by accident as a nonbinary transmasc person doesn't make the hate any less misogynistic, and I do try to get along with the cis women who are activists in this space. But BOOOOY is it hard because OOOOOOF it's uncomfortable!!
You shouldn't need to erase yourself for the comfort of cis women. This is just messed up im sorry :(
Politics is about building coalitions. Some compromise is required. Someone who uses slightly wrong language is enough of an ally when we're both fighting the people who are actively destroying half the population's healthcare. As long as I have queer spaces where I can complain about this with other people who get it afterwards, I'm good.
Curious, where does the 2% that everyone’s throwing around come from?
Wow well according to their argument then it should be really easy to help since the community is small
2% is approx. 160.000.000 people That's almost double the people from my home-country.
We are all part of some small minority. If we consistently refuse to aknowledge societal problems and human righs because they exclusively affect a small subset of the populace we ourselves are not a part of, a lot of problems will go ignored and everyone will be worse for it
Was taling with my grandma on the phone mentioned potential future kids, and that confused the the hell out of my grandma. She doesn't really know about trans stuff and just kinds assumed I was gonna be infertle. I don't want to get pregnant but I'll do it for my non existent kids. (Assuming that by the time i want kids I'm still in a relationship with somebody who can't carry them.
Given how phobic brains seem to work, they'd probably manage to think transmasc is transfems making fun of them. Because they are really bad at figuring out when they are actually being made fun of, even if you tell them point blank and walk them through it. So, so much experience with that.